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S6 EP6 | Disney sends the guys through time to develop an animated classic based on one of the less adapted Grimm or Andersen tales, so they can then make a live-action adaptation of it for a modern audience.
Two screenwriters attempt to recreate, reimagine, or flat out fix, existing film franchises when 'the studio' demands...MORE FILMS! It's an exercise in creative thinking where they will challenge themselves to conceptualize, pitch, and craft a film based on the stipulations of a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. | Sixfive Media
Hello and welcome to the studio demands it, an exercise in creative thinking where we will conceptualize, pitch, and craft a film or series based on the demands from one of you listeners acting as a hypothetical Hollywood overlord.
JIM:Listeners.
T.C.:As professional screenwriters ourselves and massive cinephiles, we talk movies all the time. Movies. And we'd like to believe that we can meet any demand thrown at us. We will be your screenwriters for this episode. I am TC DeWitt, and joining me as always is Jim unhappy hour Berzelik.
T.C.:Oh. Hello, Jim. Hello. This will not be an unhappy hour. No.
T.C.:This will not be an unhappy hour.
JIM:No. What what that goes back to is we had dinner, and the place we fur we we went to had a happy hour menu. Mhmm. But there's a happy hour from three to seven and another from nine to midnight.
T.C.:Right.
JIM:And TC had the brilliant idea.
T.C.:I'm a marketing genius.
JIM:Why why do this? Why have two of these when you could just have one unhappy hour and advertise the middle. Don't come here.
T.C.:Don't come here.
JIM:Don't come here to between seven and nine.
T.C.:It is an unhappy place. Sometimes you don't wanna go where no one knows your name. It's that it's we I think it's a hangry thing. I think it's just I I don't know. I'd like to think I have a lot of patience, but I do not have patience to be sat in a restaurant and wait twenty minutes just for a soda.
JIM:Yeah. Like The drinks took a while.
T.C.:Oh, my god. Like, by the time we got up, left, and found a new place, our food might have arrived by the Oh, time we got my gosh. But, you know, a good happy hour price kinda hard it's kinda hard not to Sure. Be tempted by it.
JIM:We were not there during the happy hour.
T.C.:No. We were there during the unhappy hour. You seem way chiller about it because by the when we were driving from a to b, you were like,
JIM:get out of my way. I'm trying to get some food here. Let's I was hungry. I was I was very hungry, and now that we were no longer seated and I we had to go to another place Mhmm. I was now hangry.
T.C.:Where did the word hangry come from?
JIM:30 Rock.
T.C.:Is it from 30 Rock? Mhmm. Wow. Congratulations, Liz Lemon. Thank you for being my secretary.
T.C.:No. I I the it's happy hour is a ubiquitous term for, like, a discount time at a restaurant or a bar. Right? But, like
JIM:Yeah. Well, and you know why. It's because those are the the down hours.
T.C.:The down hours. Okay.
JIM:Not as not as many people show up though at those times. So let's discount the food. Let's have let's let's call it happy hour.
T.C.:But sometimes it's more than an hour. Yes. Then it's happy hours.
JIM:Rush hour is more than an hour.
T.C.:Rush hours. It used to just be an hour, Jim. Man, the daily grind used to be a lot easier. You hit the road. There'd only be four lanes, not eight.
JIM:Sometimes sometimes words are used to describe things that aren't precise.
T.C.:That's pretty bad.
JIM:It sure it sure is. Scapegoat isn't always a goat. What? And you don't really escape?
T.C.:And it's And you just and you blame Wait. Wait. You blame Wait. Wait. Wait.
T.C.:You think it's a scapegoat? What do you think it is? Scapegoat.
JIM:Yeah. Okay.
T.C.:You think it's a scapegoat?
JIM:No. No. I know it's scapegoat.
T.C.:And I don't know. You said
JIM:What do think scape is short for?
T.C.:Like a landscape and a Landscapegoat. Oh. Wow. The condescension.
JIM:What I mean, was, but now I'm thinking about why is it called a landscape? It's not a land escape. Yeah. Uh-huh. Escape is
T.C.:a Words we know what words can mean other things.
JIM:No. No? No. I can't.
T.C.:That's bad.
JIM:That's that's pretty bad.
T.C.:That's pretty bad.
JIM:Jim. It's all circles here, folks.
T.C.:Jim. All circles here.
JIM:Studio demands
T.C.:Have given us demands from studios literally all over the world. And you listening now, you can send us any demand you'd like, and we will have to meet it right here on the spot. And when we reach the end of this episode, if we've done our jobs, we will have pitched a full script and story meeting or even exceeding those demands. And when the end of the season comes, your demand could have helped us craft the script that will be greenlit by the fans for our full produced finale. Thanks everyone who keeps submitting.
T.C.:Please keep them coming, because you never know when your demand might actually make it onto the show like the one we have today. Jim, are you ready? No. You're not?
JIM:No. I'm thinking still thinking about escape.
T.C.:Well, while you're doing that, I'm gonna give you the demand from d Bird Washington at Tin Cup Studios.
JIM:Okay. D never saw Tin Cup.
T.C.:Yeah. It's a Kevin Costner golf movie.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Yeah. Rainy Russo, Cheech Marin. Yep. I've never seen it either. D bird.
T.C.:D bird says, Disney continues to adapt their animated films into live action films. 25 on the book so far. Is that true? They've done 25? There's 25 Disney animated to live action adaptations?
JIM:I don't know. We could we could count.
T.C.:We could we could I'm not gonna do it off the top of my head. I will look up the Google on it, but I'll take Dee's word for it. 25 on the book so far, they make money and people are dumb enough to keep paying to see them. Oh, boy. And it doesn't appear that they care to make any grand interpretations of the works.
T.C.:Just do what already worked with new high-tech. Yeah. Just remake the movie Mhmm. As it go. How dull.
T.C.:I agree. Mhmm. Dee. But they aren't averse I think that's spelled wrong. To new takes I didn't have to point that out.
JIM:No. You didn't. They aren't averse Scapegoat.
T.C.:To to new takes on classic fairy tales. The Princess and the Frog from 2009 wasn't a one for one adaptation of the Frog Prince. That's true. It's also not a remake yet, but maybe it will be. The Sorcerer's Apprentice with Nick Cage and and Jay Bershell was a modern take on the Oh,
JIM:that means we're counting those in the in the 25.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
JIM:Yeah. I didn't I didn't think to count Sorcerer's Apprentice. I I always thought of Sorcerer's Apprentice more in the vein of Pirates of the Caribbean and
T.C.:Adept in a ride. Yeah. Yeah.
JIM:No. Which I know Sorcerer's Apprentice isn't a ride. Mhmm. But, yeah, that was that was my my imagining of
T.C.:the If d's counting it, d says, and the Sorcerer's Apprentice was a modern take on the period cartoon. It shows that the mouse will occasionally allow the filmmakers to take one of their tales and make it their own. So it is possible to adapt a hundreds year old fairy tale and make it good. And it is possible to make a good live action remake of it. What are you getting at?
T.C.:What is this? Okay. Here we go. My my I know it's gonna say right there. Just a very long prologue.
T.C.:My studio demands Which we like. I know. I know. What am I complaining about? I'm hangrier.
T.C.:Scapegoat. Scapegoat. Dee, sorry. My studio demands you take one of the less adapted Grimm or Anderson tales Yeah. And do two things.
JIM:Okay.
T.C.:First, place it in the Disney animated pantheon somewhere in the past. Holy shit.
JIM:Okay.
T.C.:Then do a live action adaptation of it for a modern audience. Woah.
JIM:Okay.
T.C.:Okay. Alright. So thank you, Dee. That's amazing. That's a great demand.
T.C.:Okay. So we have to think of
JIM:I choose mothership space goose.
T.C.:Yes.
JIM:It was originally made in the eighties.
T.C.:And we are now making
JIM:a live action remake.
T.C.:Have you guys not seen mothership space goose?
JIM:Space goose classic classic Crimson
T.C.:fairy tale. So good. So good. Have to come up with an an an underused Yep. Grim fairy tale or Hans Christian Andersen tale and imagine it placed somewhere in the Disney library.
T.C.:Okay. Cool. And then then we get to do a live action adaptation of this. Okay. Okay.
T.C.:Alright. Hans Christian Andersen wrote about 300, and and the brother's grim be hard. This you should you would think so, but that means we have to pull off the top of our head some of the movies that haven't been done by Disney yet. And, honestly, of the 60 plus of the '65, 66 or so, there aren't I'd say not even half of those are fairy tales from the Crims or the or Hans Christian Andersen. I'll I'll look it up.
T.C.:But what do you think of that? That's a great demand. It is. Disney animated.
JIM:That is a a a really good demand.
T.C.:So then the so now we're gonna luckily, I got so many fables stuck in my head from the comic that I can probably think of a few. But looking at the the library of Disney films we have, obviously, Snow White started it all. Honestly, we picked this because the new Snow White, live action remake is hitting theaters this, like, now. And so I wanted to find a demand that had something Disney related into it, keyworded it, and this is what we got. So, okay.
T.C.:Do any of the animated like, or any of the fairy tales pop in your head that you're like, we should do those?
JIM:I am chagrin to say most of my thorough knowledge of the fairy tales comes from the Disney movies. Mhmm. So while I could name other fairy tales that would would come from from these these collected works.
T.C.:Right.
JIM:I don't know the details of like like, Boy Blue. I don't know I don't know the details of Boy Blue's story.
T.C.:Well, Boy Blue like, Little Boy Blue, go blow your horn horn is just a nursery rhyme. It wasn't, like, a full story because the the the like, the original version of Boy Blue is he's a boy who falls asleep under a haystack. Mhmm. And the sheep are out in the meadow. You know, little boy blue come blow your horn.
T.C.:The sheep are in the meadow, the cows in the corn, and the and that's it. He's he's under the haystack, and he fell asleep.
JIM:Sure.
T.C.:The that's that's I don't even know if I don't think that's Hans Christian. I think that might just be, like, an older Oh, okay. Before recorded before the Grimms and because the Grimms collected fairy tales. They they went across Europe.
JIM:Oh, and Anderson wrote them?
T.C.:And Anderson came up with them. Oh. Like, I might be giving them too much credit. There's certainly
JIM:I thought they both I thought they both collected them. Hans Christian Andersen might have put a spin like, put his spin on them. I do know there was there was a difference like that. What wasn't Grimm's story the Grimm's fairy tales were much more were darker because they came from Eastern Europe
T.C.:Yeah. Where Yeah.
JIM:Where they were all lessons about children not messing around, otherwise lest they lose their fingers and
T.C.:Get kidnapped by yeah. Did that that's something I when people talk about the Disneyfication of stories, I always go back to the point of they're trying to entertain people. Okay?
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Oh, you want an you want a a one for one adaptation of Little Mermaid?
JIM:Some people do.
T.C.:Good. Because those but those tales were created as as parables, as warnings. Yeah. They weren't made to entertain children. They were made to keep them scared.
JIM:Terrify them.
T.C.:Don't leave the bar. Blow blow your horn, little boy. Yeah. The you know, Ann Anderson was he Hans Christian Andersen was more known for inventing the fairy tales rather than collecting them, which is what the Brothers Grimm
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Brothers Grimm did. If I remember my literary history, I'm trying to find a good I know there's a a great list of the the Disney I probably should be we should think of thinking of fairy tales because if we name one that's already been done, I'll just go, yeah. That's Cinderella, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, the Ice Queen, which is Frozen.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:See, I'm
JIM:trying do
T.C.:it off the top of my head, but are so you you went to Boy Blue first.
JIM:Well, so I went to where you did, fable the the comic book fables, which just basically, you just start going through the Rolodex of characters, and which story are they from? And he's a more pivotal character and one that hasn't been in a Disney movie. Right. So that doesn't mean that the re that's the reason I used him as an example of I don't think know if this is a good
T.C.:Well, like, thinking of, like, some some Disney history. The first one he wanted to do he wanted Walt Walt's wanted to do the snow queen, the ice queen, snow queen guy. He wanted to do Alice in Wonderland, like because the first animation he did were his Alice cartoons. Now the demand said fairy tale. So when where are we drawing the line on fairy tales?
T.C.:For example, like, Pinocchio is is a child a children's story of yesteryear, but it's not a Hans Christian Andersen story, and it's not a brother's cramp. Right.
JIM:So But it's a it would is it even well, is it considered a fairy tale?
T.C.:Yeah. I
JIM:was actually I was actually recently doing research on Pinocchio. It was written in the late eighteen hundreds. Mhmm. And it's about it's or at least, I think critics say or it actually is about the unification of Italy at the time.
T.C.:Well, it's yeah.
JIM:But it is set in a it it it's set as a medieval story. Mhmm.
T.C.:Yeah. It's a it's it's a novel. It's not a story. It's not a story. It's a novel.
T.C.:So the reason I asked that is
JIM:Novels are stories. Yeah. Yeah.
T.C.:The the works of Brothers Grimm and Hans Christian Andersen are are very, very digestible, which is why they have hundreds of them. Yeah. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. And then then looking at the library of of of the animated films from from Snow White on, they did Cinderella as a way to go, hey. Let's do another princess because that made us all the money.
T.C.:And then moving on from there, they did the same thing by doing Sleeping Beauty.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Then I'm trying to think of gosh. Because then
JIM:Little Mermaid. Yeah. Looking looking Little Mermaid. At the list, the first one that I see that would kind of fit the the the Disney mold Mhmm. But hasn't been done.
JIM:Yeah. Rumpelstiltskin.
T.C.:No. I I am a fan. I will I will acknowledge that Rumpelstiltskin is the villain in the Puss in Boots movie, but those movies are
JIM:Those are far. Those are dreams DreamWorks movies.
T.C.:And also far from the source material.
JIM:Sure. I mean, Rumpelstiltskin is also the villain in the ABC TV show, once upon a time.
T.C.:Listen. We don't talk about that show on this podcast, Jim. You know I have feelings about that show. Go listen to my Fables episode. Okay.
T.C.:So Rumpelstiltskin as a centralized character, and now are you suggesting we finally
JIM:I was not suggesting him as the central character. That that's that's the traditional name of the story. Right. That doesn't mean we couldn't name it something else. Rapunzel isn't called Rapunzel.
JIM:Rapunzel's called Tangled.
T.C.:Sure. Sure. You know why they did that?
JIM:Why did they do that?
T.C.:They found they could appeal more to boys if they didn't put the princess's name in the
JIM:title. Interesting.
T.C.:Yeah. And also Tangled is one of the top 10 it's one of the GOAT animated Disney movies.
JIM:I don't know that I actually, even if it's called Rumpelstiltskin, I wouldn't make him the main character. I would make it the
T.C.:Miller's the Miller's daughter. Yeah. Yeah. Because Rumpelstiltskin is
JIM:It would be a princess movie.
T.C.:Yeah. Well,
JIM:so I would wanna make it a princess movie and that would set it that essentially sets it in it would most comfortably be in one of three eras then.
T.C.:Okay. Yes. That's I forgot that's part of the demand.
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:So we have golden era, silver era, dark ages, Renaissance, second dark age, second Renaissance.
JIM:Alright. Yeah. You definitely know more. I was I was basically thinking the bigger era of of closer not not quite Snow White, but around Okay. Cinderella
T.C.:Golden era. Yeah. You're talking classic classic Disney.
JIM:Era or the nineties that that that
T.C.:During Renaissance era. Okay.
JIM:Or during the the Frozen Renaissance two. Era. Yeah. And I say that because in my memory of of the breakdown, that those were the big princess eras.
T.C.:Yes. Yeah. Every time Disney animation was floundering, they do a princess movie. It's kinda what it comes down to. It's like starting with Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, and then when Katzenberg and Eisner took over in the eighties, they did Little Mermaid.
T.C.:We're doing a princess movie.
JIM:We're gonna
T.C.:make it a musical.
JIM:Now now that I think now that I say all that out loud, it doesn't have to like, it could be interesting to set this in the the eighties dark era when they didn't have it. Yeah. Because calling a movie Rumpelstiltskin and having this little goblin man kinda be this so that puts it sort of in Disney's more dark Mhmm. Like, literally, they're they're taking darker stories. Yeah.
JIM:Yeah. But then it gives it it gives a princess to kinda be the out. Yeah. We're rewriting Disney history here.
T.C.:Well, the place to put that. So Dark Age is roughly, with some, with some arguments to me made one one way or the other, I'd say aristocrats, aristocats Mhmm. Robin Hood, Winnie the Pooh, then the true dark ages dark is The Rescuers, Fox and the Hound, Black Cauldron, and then The Great Mouse Detective. That little window of time from around '77 to '88 is a real low point for those movies. It's competing with Don Bluth.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:It is the dark darkest of the movies. Black Cauldron is a definitely cult classic. Did not do well. That's Katzenberg's fault. The Rescuers and Fox and the Hound are kind of nightmare fuel movies.
T.C.:Not necessary. That might be unfair. They're not nightmare movies like They're rant to nim was.
JIM:You you walk you're sad.
T.C.:Yeah. You don't walk away feeling great after watching those two movies.
JIM:Isn't it great how the fox and the hound are friends forever?
T.C.:So if you're saying that's finding a way to to get a a princess in that era now Hila Wein from the Black Cauldron is a princess no one cares about because the Black Cauldron is so often forgotten. So Rumpelstiltskin as a dark little goblin man who says I'm gonna take your firstborn. Okay. Yeah. That feels like an appropriate era for him.
T.C.:But that story, now how do we expand that into a full adventure? Right?
JIM:Well oh, great. Because he because he kidnaps the miller's daughter and makes her spin gold. No. If she can guess his name, she can be free?
T.C.:No. So there's a miller brags to royalty that his daughter can turn can spin straw into gold. So they kidnap her, and they stick her in a room with
JIM:The royal straw.
T.C.:Okay. Royalty does and say, do that or we'll kill you. So she begs the winds, and Rumpelstiltskin show shows up and says, I can spin straw into gold. I'll do that for you, for your firstborn. And she's just happy to not die that she agrees to it, and he does it for her.
T.C.:And then the royalty is like, she really did it. Do it again. So then she has to keep making a deal with Rumpelstiltskin to spin all this Mhmm. Pay into gold and Further deals? For yeah.
JIM:What what other what else does she what else does she sell?
T.C.:Just for the firstborn. He just agree agrees to keep doing it for the
JIM:Stiltskin, He's he's conniving, but he's not very creative. Give me your firstborn. Okay. Ruppelstiltskin, I need you to do it again. Okay.
JIM:Give me your firstborn. Yeah. Didn't you already Listen.
T.C.:Oh, okay. Jim. Jim. Jim. Jim.
T.C.:It's the art of the deal. So now let me rewind here. That is exactly Rumpelstiltskin is our president? No. Keep your politics off my show.
T.C.:The first time he comes, she offers a necklace. She oh, yeah. Okay. Rumpelstiltskin. It's right there.
T.C.:His hair is straw too.
JIM:It is.
T.C.:Oh my god.
JIM:Flaxen gold.
T.C.:The first time he comes, she gives him his neck she gives him her necklace, not she doesn't make the first firstborn deal. Eventually, she she Uh-huh. She come he comes back again when she runs out things to negotiate with. Then he offers the, I'll take your firstborn. She's like, sure.
T.C.:Whatever. The king marries her. The prince marries her. And and lo and behold, has a baby, and Rumpelstiltskin shows up to collect. You know, that's your that's your promise.
T.C.:You made the deal. Give me your kid. And she says, no. And he says, fine. I'll let you keep your kid.
T.C.:If you can guess my name, and you get three tries. You get I'll do it in three days. Within three days, I'll come back three times. If you guess my name, I will I will let you keep your kid. And then so the the miller's daughter, the queen, I guess now, princess, through her cleverness, learns his name, and in a fit of rage, he tears himself apart at the end.
T.C.:So that's that's the original fable of it. If I'm if I'm remembering correctly. And I feel like and I feel as though I am. So anyone wants to correct me on the variations of this. There you go.
JIM:Well, too bad because we're already gonna change it from that.
T.C.:Yeah. Well, yeah. We gotta adapt it for Disney. Had Disneyfy this.
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:Dark age Disneyfy it.
JIM:Yeah. Well, again, it doesn't have to be set in the the the dark age.
T.C.:No. No. No. I mean, Disney dark age.
JIM:Weird. Yeah. No. I know. That's Oh.
JIM:Yeah. Yeah. We we haven't definitively put it there. We we can.
T.C.:Yeah. Well, let's let's let's conceptualize what this could be.
JIM:Well, because then also, are we wanting to pull Disney out of the dark age with this, or are we setting it there so that it can be forgotten?
T.C.:If it can be forgotten, it'll become a cult hit likened to Black Cauldron and Treasure Planet.
JIM:Just like we're getting the live action versions of those.
T.C.:Never will we ever. That's not entirely true. Someone might take a shot on those. Listen, Disney. Listen, Disney.
T.C.:Disney, are you listening? Do a remastered, rereleased theatrical run of Treasure Planet. You will make a mint. I swear to God, the cult success of that, there's an entire generation who loves that movie, who didn't even get to see it in the theaters because it came and went with poor advertising and no faith in the movie, rerelease it for some anniversary edition. I'm telling you, you will make a mint.
JIM:You think you think it has the the Clue treatment? Or not not really treatment. Clue. Clue got popular because it was just put on syndication, but it bombed. Yeah.
JIM:And then they're like, whatever. Throw this at some repeat TV. No one cares.
T.C.:Shawshank Redemption bombed.
JIM:People loved it.
T.C.:Shawshank Redemption bombed in theaters. People thought it was a religious movie.
JIM:Oh, because of redemption.
T.C.:Because the title. Yeah. And it's one of the most beloved films of the twentieth century, twenty first century as well. Like so I'm anyway, off the point.
JIM:Okay.
T.C.:We could make a cult hit here is what I'm saying. But you know what? Let's just come up with the concept of the movie and then determine where it fits nicely into the pantheon. Okay. The the story as is, Miller's daughter Mhmm.
T.C.:Taken by the royalty, stuck in a room, spins straw, I'll kill you Mhmm. Make a deal with the devil. Is let's let's discuss making him the central character and not a may a misunderstood character as opposed to an actual villain. I'm not saying I like that because I think Rumpelstiltskin is a nasty little man and should be the bad guy.
JIM:And your big criticism is criticism of Disney is they have a villain problem?
T.C.:Oh. Oh, yes. They do. You're right. What am I doing?
T.C.:Oh my god. I'm them. I'm gonna
JIM:you're the baddie.
T.C.:I'm the baddie. You do the podcast for a while.
JIM:Gonna you're gonna go think you're gonna think about things. I'm gonna eat this nerd cluster. So I I don't think he should be central. I I think she should be. And I Is she blonde?
JIM:Yep. She doesn't have to be, but yeah. Make her blonde.
T.C.:No. We don't.
JIM:I don't care what color hair she has.
T.C.:This matters.
JIM:I will let the art department decide that.
T.C.:Okay. Go ahead.
JIM:I think the question of what Rumpelstiltskin's name is should happen much earlier. Mhmm. Basically, when he shows up. What's your name? Ah.
JIM:Hello. And and what should I I think so to to sort of give us some broad strokes to to play with as we go. Mhmm. You mentioned the four wins. I like that that that she she asked.
JIM:So is Rumpelstiltskin the embodiment of those four wins? No. No.
T.C.:I I turned a phrase to call it that. Oh, okay. But thank you for that.
JIM:So it's just the devil shows up. Okay. That's that's less interesting.
T.C.:No. No. He was it's four wins.
JIM:Well, the the first thing I actually thought as you were telling is, oh, what if Rumpelstiltskin is is like puck? He's a fae. He doesn't have to be the devil. But anyway, what if for for our broad strokes here, what if he's a guy who likes making deals? Right?
JIM:He likes making deals and making bets and and playing games.
T.C.:Yeah.
JIM:And so that's one of the first things that happens is can you guess my name?
T.C.:Mhmm.
JIM:Or maybe she even she maybe it even starts that way. Like, he shows up. Like, I hear you were calling. Mhmm. And and like no.
JIM:No. She shouldn't start it. He should be the one that that starts games. But when she when she asks what his name is, what if he promises like, that they're they're actually that's that becomes the first bet. If you can guess my name Mhmm.
T.C.:Yeah.
JIM:I I will give you the kingdom.
T.C.:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
JIM:Yeah. The the very castle you are in Imprisoned in. Imprisoned in. Mhmm. Mhmm.
JIM:Will be yours. And so every time he like, so now we're following her trying to figure out his name the best she can. We can give her some animal friend that's maybe trying to help her.
T.C.:We are are we an animal friend? So go ahead. Yeah.
JIM:And and so so he he he so he shows up, and that that's sort of one thing they got going. And and there could be all of these sorts of things, like, either like, between trivia and games, like, he and and maybe he spins a bit of maybe even before the spinning gold. Basically, right now, I'm imagining a little bit sharper teeth version of when Aladdin found the genie.
T.C.:Sure. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I don't mind I
JIM:don't mind this. The genie was way more friendly and just happy to be out of the Right. The bottle. I'm imagining Rumpelstiltskin, he he plays around and he's he can be as Austin well, no, because he would have to be Robin Williams. No one is as Austin conscious as Robin But he can be kind of grandiose like that.
JIM:Like, it is it is I. Nah. You have you you're not getting mine. It's something something like that.
T.C.:He could be bouncing around.
JIM:And and and he has magic. Right? So so he can do zany things.
T.C.:Having a a little animal sidekick or a a friend, whether it's animal or not, a friend to please. I'm I'm I am now trapped in here. You have to find out. Or or maybe she's not trapped in it. But having having, like, a b plot of a character, like, in the woods trying to gather information about Rumpelstiltskin is a fun fun notion.
T.C.:Like, having a a b plot, of another character doing that. Like, finding out hearing stories about Rumpelstiltskin and the deals he's made. It could even allow us artistically to anytime he hears a story, we get to see it in a slightly different animated style. Like like like, maybe I'm Sure. Sure.
T.C.:Sure. Like, we're we're when it's it's a traditional hand drawn Disney animation stuff, but when, like, tell me your tail over a little campfire or whatever, it's like, oh, I've heard of I've heard of the imp the imp in the woods, the puck in the woods. And and anytime someone dealt like, shares a tail oh my god. Okay.
JIM:Oh, because Rumpelstiltskin can take any form he wants.
T.C.:Yes. The maybe this is isn't gonna work. I'm throw it out there. The the person who's doing the investigating for her to try to help her, her friend is a storyteller, like a brother Grimm kind of thing. Like like, for example, in sword of the stone, Merlin has the whole of history even knowing the book that will then be written about this very thing.
T.C.:And so a little bit of that era metaphysicalcom metacomedy. Metacom meta
JIM:That's what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. It it doesn't it doesn't hook me.
T.C.:Okay. I had I maybe I had on a hat on that one where it's just but it's trying to collect the stories of Rumpelstiltskin to figure out his name Sure. Investigation. It it might not be able to be her because she is trapped in Yeah. The castle.
T.C.:Mhmm. But then again, maybe it could be
JIM:I'd I I'm having the notion that maybe it's that that the person who is free and going and trying to help, trying to research this stuff is her father. Okay. The one who got her
T.C.:in prison. You got me into this mess. Yeah.
JIM:But I I don't that that doesn't quite hook me either. So I'm gonna let that let that whole side thing simmer for now.
T.C.:Okay. Okay.
JIM:And I'm imagining
T.C.:Let's go back to
JIM:So once once the deal is made, right, they they have they have all these all these little bets and and and contests going. Mhmm. And the one, like, the the one central one is she needs to spin hair hay Hay. Hay into gold.
T.C.:Straw into gold.
JIM:Straw into gold. And so Rumplestillskin helps out with that. Right? Makes that deal. Mhmm.
JIM:And and it it it right? It becomes gold.
T.C.:Yes.
JIM:And so she makes this gets taken up in front of the terrible king and queen. Mhmm. Just king, just queen. Well, those terrible people. Yeah.
JIM:And they have a son Mhmm. Who's not a who's not a bad guy Mhmm. And sees the miller's daughter and is and and is enamored with her. Mhmm. Mhmm.
JIM:And while they they they bring the golden, the they're they don't immediately say, end back to the cell with you. They they themselves think that, oh, we're they also they like her very much. Oh, look
T.C.:at look at what you did.
JIM:This is so amazing. Wonderful. Yes. Please come. Have dinner with us.
JIM:Please come. We want you to come to this this party we're having so we can show off the girl who's Yeah. Been And and stuff like that. So then we can have some scenes back and forth with her and the prince Mhmm. And learn stuff from other people.
JIM:It might be fun if when she's there, she sees other people, other other nobles and stuff who who have other little Rumplestiltskins of their own. Maybe that that's a bit of it. Oh. Almost like demons on shoulders.
T.C.:Okay. I don't know if I love that, but go ahead.
JIM:The the idea would be either like, only she can see them for whatever reason. Yeah. So she can kind of I don't know. That that that's an idea. Doesn't Mhmm.
JIM:Write more spaghetti for the wall. Wall spaghetti. But either way, right, she gets to go to these parties. We, the audience, get to have a princess, proto princess Mhmm. Going to parties, meeting a prince.
T.C.:And not just trapped in a cellar.
JIM:Yeah. Cool. And and maybe he even takes her around town, like, because he likes her and so he's pseudo courting her. But at the end of the night, they always come back and the king and queen always say, hand back to your room
T.C.:Mhmm. Which is your bedroom.
JIM:Yeah. Your your chamber. Chamber. Which which is her cell.
T.C.:Yeah. And You will see in
JIM:the morning. Was amazing. And, like like, even do, like like, maybe tricks of of wordplay where they're like, imagine what you could do. And and they basically trick her into, like, almost saying, oh, I could do twice as much.
T.C.:Yeah. Oh, could you? I I love this. I wanna back up all the way to the beginning of the movie. Okay.
T.C.:Instead of her first call getting the brag, I wanna add a add a add beginning to this that gets her to Rumpelstiltskin helping her in the cell. If at this starts out with her farm and her father being in dire straits and she calls then, I'm add I'm changing the story a little bit. Mhmm. She makes her first deal with Rumpelstiltskin to help her in one way or another to save the farm. The first time he shows up is my farm is in trouble.
T.C.:My father's in trouble. I'd wanna do anything I can to save him. He shows up to, oh, I heard you calling in the winds. I can help you with a deal. Give me your necklace, and I will save your farm.
T.C.:And so she starts making deals with him there. So then when she's in trapped in there in the cell, then she can call out to be like, little man, little goblin, help me. Oh, looks like you got yourself in a a little bit of trouble. What's going on here? I have to spin straw in the hay.
T.C.:Well, I can do that. What's it gonna cost me? Oh, come You know, we've we've made deals before and it's nothing much.
JIM:I see what you're saying. Yeah. I'm not a fan of of that. Here's why. Here's why I'm not a fan of that.
JIM:I feel like it sets our main character, our princess. It it gives her a pretty unsavory or savory. I I I mean, in the bad way
T.C.:Yeah.
JIM:A a character flaw. Right? That that that's not a character flaw that that can, like
T.C.:Well, desperation. She she made it desperately to please, I just wanna save my farm. Like, if she's praying and then a devil shows up instead.
JIM:I well, so first, for for that language, I don't wanna make Rumpelstiltskin a devil.
T.C.:Right. Okay. I'm that was a long term of phrase.
JIM:Yeah. I just I just wanna be clear about that. Yes.
T.C.:Yeah. This little this little trickster shows up. That's okay. I I the reason I did that was to you might have already solved it, but not just getting her in the cell and now she's trapped there for the rest of the movie. Sure.
T.C.:Giving her some some time in this world before she gets there and then
JIM:Well, right, we have to see that Belle likes books and she doesn't like this type of stuff. I I get that. I I think showing Rumpelstiltskin earlier, what do you think about putting this on her dad?
T.C.:That he's the one who
JIM:Like like Okay. Go ahead. Making her her dad her dad the the braggadocious itinerant gambler. Yeah. Maybe that's a little too that is also a little too salacious.
T.C.:This is I I this is what I was getting to. Is she makes the deal with stiltskin to start, and he gets her some gold coins. So then she gives them to her father, and he's like, where did you get these? And she's like, I made it out of straw. So then when he goes and brags about it, she's already done it.
T.C.:Ah. And now he's not straight up lying about his daughter.
JIM:That's not bad.
T.C.:He thinks she already can do it because she, trying to rescue him, made a bad deal.
JIM:Okay. That pitches it pretty well. I'm gonna offer offer my version, but that that's still pretty good.
T.C.:Go ahead.
JIM:Go ahead. It's actually her father who makes bets with Rumpelstiltskin. Right? That essentially, turning Rumpelstiltskin, he is the embodiment of gambling Yeah. Of of the the this this habit of of gambling.
JIM:And so Rumpelstiltskin is actually connected to him. Mhmm. And he's aware of the the the girl, but it's basically, Rumpelstiltskin almost tricks the dad or or it's a it's a better something, gets him to brag that that he he he he he has he has this gold. Where did you, the the the The miller. Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. How'd you get that?
JIM:Who who like yeah. Yeah. The the the miller who who's not even good good at, like, you you have debts everywhere. Where did you get gold? Yeah.
JIM:It was it was it was spun from hay because I have a lot of that because I'm the or I'm the miller.
T.C.:Yeah. Grain and wheat and corn coming up my ears.
JIM:Yeah. It's like, oh, well then you can make more well, it's it's not me. It's it's my daughter.
T.C.:She did it.
JIM:My daughter's the one who did it. So I don't know. I don't actually know how it's done. My
T.C.:father
JIM:Your daughter did it.
T.C.:My father's lying.
JIM:You're coming with us.
T.C.:No. My father lied. He I have never done that in my life.
JIM:No one believes any words women say. Especially You are now in the dungeon.
T.C.:Oh,
JIM:No. No. It it doesn't have to be that. But the the idea of saying it's it's him and then so Rumpelstiltskin sees this trouble happen Mhmm. Is tickled by it because that's how he is.
JIM:Mhmm. And doesn't immediately attach himself to the daughter, but, like, sees that happen and he is a supernatural creature. So when she goes and prays for for help
T.C.:Mhmm.
JIM:That that's when he show he shows up and the the father can even be like, oh, what have I done? Mhmm. This can be sort of his his sort of side plot. What have I done? I I put I put my magic little man on my daughter.
T.C.:Yeah. Oh god. Oh god.
JIM:That that sounds really terrible.
T.C.:Yeah. But
JIM:in addition to that, I what do you think about the idea of when she calls out? Rumpelstiltskin isn't the only one who replies. He was just the first. So like an actual blue fairy
T.C.:Sure. Sure.
JIM:Tries to show up and Rumpelstiltskin flick get flicks her out of the way. Keep like and so she keeps trying to get in to help the Miller's daughter.
T.C.:I like this as a second. Yep.
JIM:Keeps kicking her out of the way.
T.C.:If especially if we're looking at more classic Disney's having some sort of deus ex machina available to us Mhmm. In some capacity or another. I like the idea of her calling out Rumpelstiltskin showing up, but then, like, a good fairy showing up. And now you have, like, an angel and devil, and Rumpelstiltskin is just much more he's got more charisma. He's got much more, power over this angel, and he's flicking it away, to the point where the girl I'm gonna side with this guy, and our little fairy character is now could be attached to our sec our b plot to try to help investigate.
T.C.:That that there's something there. Having a second thing show up that's good that doesn't get to help because Rumpelstiltskin got there first.
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:That that's fun because that adds another character to this ensemble. It fits it feels like it fits in nicely to have another like, good fairy and a bad little goblin man. I'm not entirely show sold on the dad being the one who evokes Rumpelstiltskin. I'm I'm still gonna fight for him screwing up and the girl trying to just be the one who saves her dad and makes bad deals that lead up to, I got straw into gold. Oops.
T.C.:My dad bragged. Oops. Now I'm locked up. Like, it puts more on it puts it all on her. As opposed to, there's a problem with Aurora.
T.C.:Sleeping Beauty is a fantastic movie. She is not the main character. Philip is. In fact, that's not even true. The fairies are.
T.C.:And Aurora has 16 lines in the whole movie. She is a very small part of Sleeping Beauty. And I I want to empower our princess here, the miller's daughter, to have the the story rested on her shoulders as opposed to being the like, suffering the consequences of her father getting the action going. You see what I mean?
JIM:I do. And I understand. Right? It's it's the notion of character agency Mhmm. And and primarchy.
JIM:I I don't think that's the right word. Primacy? I I I don't know. I don't I just don't think it matches up with the Disney model.
T.C.:Primacy is correct, by
JIM:the way. Primacy. Okay. Thank you.
T.C.:Of a traditional Disney, you are correct. It does seem I don't know if that's entirely true because there's only three princesses through the through the airs. It's it's Snow White. She's the main character. Cinderella, she's the main character.
T.C.:I mean Mhmm. Charming doesn't even have name in that movie. And And neither does the prince in Snow White. That's actually not That's not even bothering you. I guess,
JIM:specifically, it is is the the princesses don't do I'm I'm I'm sure I'm sure at least one well, no. They they do. But the princesses in general don't do a thing Mhmm. To get themselves in trouble.
T.C.:Right.
JIM:They are put upon. Right. And that's that's what I'm trying to create here
T.C.:Mhmm.
JIM:Is that put uponness. And I I And and when they aren't as far as I can remember, the ones that aren't put upon Mhmm. Usually what they're doing is they're not doing something that is character a flaw. They're actually trying to expand beyond actually, they all trying to expand beyond their their put upon this?
T.C.:I think they are. The this is this is the thing. The difference between classic Disney and I'm gonna create a thesis here that I've
JIM:Okay.
T.C.:I've I've may have shared this with you before, but this might help us. And I think we can this is funny. We can let's let's set act one aside and then get into, I think or act two is pretty good where it's like hanging out with the the prince and getting to know him.
JIM:Getting deeper and deeper in with Rumpelstiltskin.
T.C.:Yeah. It's funny we could let let me talk for a moment about classic Disney versus modern Disney. Classic Disney protagonists, Snow White up through, like, nearly to Little Mermaid era, somewhere around there, the main character isn't gonna change. I'm sorry. It's going to change.
T.C.:There's there's something about their circumstances that are gonna it's gonna make them better. Mhmm. They will they will change as a person. They will they will grow and evolve. They will learn a lesson, and they will change.
T.C.:The modern Disney protagonist is okay who they are, and the world needs to accept them for who they are. This is a generality, but when I I can kinda divide Disney up into a a classic storytelling device versus a more modern storytelling device, which is you are okay who you are and the world will accept that. They'll figure it out or they'll get out of the way and you be you. Yeah. And that's a good lesson of the modern storytelling element.
T.C.:The classic storytelling element is much more learn a lesson and change happily ever after. There's less nuance in classic storytelling. Does that make sense? Like Sure. Like, the the like, oh, I am this way, and now I'm this way, and everything's better, and everything I I am now a princess.
T.C.:I I and and, again, these are general terms because I could find exceptions to everything I'm saying through both eras. It seems to me the more modern look of the protagonist is, the modern look at the protagonist is the world will figure you out, and you just stay who you are. And then and then it'll be okay. So our princess being put upon and having to go through all these trials and tribulations, more classic way to do that would be, yeah, let's have the dad be responsible for this. A more modern version of it is, you know, I don't know if I'm I'm I'm rambling this thesis
JIM:right now. So I kind of understand what you're saying. I don't know that I fully agree. I think I have a problem with in the first ten, fifteen minutes Mhmm. Because we'd have to get to it pretty fast.
JIM:But in the establishing of this character
T.C.:Right.
JIM:She makes a deal with a seemingly supernatural character.
T.C.:Right. You're right. Like, I we are writing a movie that's probably about a hundred minutes long. You're probably you are correct. We shouldn't I'm probably you know, in our adaptation, when we do the modern version
JIM:Uh-huh.
T.C.:All the room in the world for me to do this. For this version, I think you actually probably are correct to get to the point sooner.
JIM:Also, I just I feel like there's there's lessons for the the audience of for who the audience is supposed to be Mhmm. For a princess story, little girls. Mhmm. I think that it is easier for them to understand the notion of my parent I have to deal with my parents' foibles Yes. Rather rather than I've made a deal with a stranger.
JIM:Now I gotta figure it out.
T.C.:In the classic princesses I love most, when you look at Belle, she's just trying to help her dad out. Yeah. And when you look at little at at Ariel, she screwed this up, not her dad. Sure. Yeah.
T.C.:Split hairs. But, like yeah. Sure. I'm on board with her. You're
JIM:saying it. But it's that's why I went back go back to the notion of their their when they push for that agency, when when they make that move, they're they're not they're they're the way they're put upon Mhmm. Is different each time. Snow White is chased away.
T.C.:Right.
JIM:Cinderella is forced to work. Right. Ariel is He she's did. She's she's a teenager. She's forced to be a teenager.
JIM:No. She's she's forced into her into a a way of life she doesn't want. She pursues love. Mhmm. Little rebel.
JIM:Kind of. Yeah. Belle, her character flaw, the way she stands out is for her society a problem. But for the audience's society, being someone who likes learning and reading and and to be being smart Mhmm. That is a character Commendable.
JIM:Feature. Yeah. So that that that's my concern about
T.C.:that.
JIM:If if if you wanted to start Rumpelstiltskin with her, I would want it to start as a trick. Yes. Like Yes. He he it would be he shows up only to be helpful, and it's not until she has agreed to a thing she shouldn't have a la Ariel Yes.
T.C.:Yes.
JIM:That I would want to do otherwise, but we're having to get there so dang fast. Yeah. I still it just it doesn't feel as magical
T.C.:to me. I'm more on board with what your pitch is.
JIM:Also Yeah. Just that notion of him representing that the idea of gambling and stuff Mhmm. And that idea of generational addiction and and trauma can be played in this story in interesting ways. Also, the whole notion of turning straw into gold is this lie, but we can also play with her. It it this actually doesn't necessarily preclude or exclude or be be exclusive from what we're currently talking about, but I love the notion that another thing we play up through this whole story is her constantly metaphorically spinning straw into gold.
JIM:Like, well, I gotta make the best of
T.C.:my situation. I I like this. And I think that we're going yes. You are right. I that that's a character trait of hers.
T.C.:She can spin straw she can spin anything into gold And
JIM:if her Figuratively. If her dad I see. I so so if her dad has Rumpelstiltskin, technically, why can't he make all these wonderful things? Because he's not good at it. He loses bets.
T.C.:Right. He
JIM:loses bets with a magical little man.
T.C.:He's a bad gambler, and she's great. And She's a great gambler. She's a great gambler. Lesson learned. The having him make the deal, even if she's, like, witnesses the aftermath of it, part of the deal is, I'll do this for you.
T.C.:You cannot tell anyone where I got this. You cannot tell anyone, like, that's the deal. And and Sure. Concept so you need to whatever you have to say to stop to so no one knows that I'm the one who did it. Then when the when the father has the gold or whatever to pay his debts, he could admit, like, oh, my daughter spun it out of hay, like straw.
T.C.:Some some seed plan that allowed him to come up with that insane thing. Even if Rumpelstiltskin says, say you melt it from a cow. Say you climbed a beanstalk out from a giant. Say your daughter spun it out of hay. I don't care.
T.C.:You do not say anything about me. That's the deal. So that when the when the dad is cornered
JIM:That could be the original thing. If I don't know how what if what if it starts with his dad first makes the deal? Like, spin this straw into gold.
T.C.:Her dad makes the deal.
JIM:Yeah. Her her dad makes the deal with Rumble Stills. With Rumble Stills saying, hey, I wanna spin this straw into into gold. Mhmm. And and Rumble Stills, I don't know.
JIM:No. I'm I'm getting off the rails. Basically, I was thinking in in the the the first part, she does it. Mhmm. She doesn't know how it works.
JIM:She doesn't know why, but it's because her dad made a deal with Rumpelstilt. Gonna already
T.C.:like she actually did it.
JIM:Yeah. So as far as she knows, she does do it.
T.C.:I just do this.
JIM:Yeah. So that way when she's in the the dungeon, she tries and it isn't happening. Yeah. So then when Rumpelstiltskin says, oh, I can I can make that happen? I did I I did the first time.
T.C.:It was you? Oh my gosh. Yeah.
JIM:Yeah. Yeah. Me and your dad go way back.
T.C.:What? God, dad. Father. Sorry. She wouldn't call him dad.
T.C.:Father. Father. Father. Papa. Getting him in to start dealing, wheeling, and dealing here to be like, hey.
T.C.:You you called to me. You the sun's about to rise. Let's make a deal. Shake. Like, every time he extends his hand, we get to, like, animate it in such a way where it's the same sort of, like, the bad music plays, and she has no choice to start making deals with this guy.
T.C.:And and then maybe this is this is how we enact our b plot is, how did you do it, honey? Daughter, how did you
JIM:do this? Father, I made a
T.C.:deal with a little man who says he knows you. No. But he said if I and, like, when that initial thing of what's your name, like Mhmm. No. No.
T.C.:No. No. That's not the game we're playing. He evoking that early, early, early. Maybe it's the father then, as you might have suggested earlier.
T.C.:I can't remember if you did or not, that he's the one who starts trying to collect the stories to figure out what this thing's name is. Sure. Yeah. Our wacky little dad character being helped by a good fairy. There's our b plot.
JIM:Right. Because the the fairy gets blocked by Rumpelstiltskin. So because she can't get in there Mhmm. And the dad's all like, oh, what do I do? They go, hey.
JIM:We need to team up.
T.C.:Oh, god. I to to go into a classic Disney Disney place here, if she becomes full sized woman, he might have a wife by the end of this.
JIM:Maybe. I
T.C.:You gotta love love for a Disney movie, G. I loved
JIM:love by the Miller's daughter marrying the prince.
T.C.:Yeah. Well, dad gets some too. He's gonna marry a fairy. The we don't have to do that. We don't have to do that.
T.C.:But yeah. So then her starting to make deals and and now being courted by the prince succeeding at making the straw into gold every night Mhmm. Having to bargain with more and more stuff with Rumpelstiltskin, we are going to reach that turning point of you've run out of bargaining chips, little girl. I'll give you the last deal I can make. I want your firstborn child.
T.C.:What? You I will spin this last bit of straw and like, makes the deal.
JIM:Even through through the whole thing, he's he can be the the the he's because he's playing her her magical sidekick, the whole time he's fostering the relationship.
T.C.:Oh, he's a sweet little he's a goofy little man.
JIM:Between him and finally make a sequel straight to
T.C.:Oh, god. No. No. What is it? What
JIM:is He wanted the baby specifically for political reasons. He wanted because that baby would be royalty.
T.C.:This baby's gonna be royalty. If I
JIM:mean, I I did it first with a Trumple Stiltskin.
T.C.:He wants the baby to marry?
JIM:No. No. He's no. This isn't Twilight. Okay.
JIM:Or Beetlejuice? Or Beetlejuice. No. It's neither of them.
T.C.:Okay. Are what do you mean what do mean politically?
JIM:I I'm nations. Right? Mhmm. They're the king and queen of a country. Right.
JIM:If Rumpelstiltskin takes the the
T.C.:The The air.
JIM:The air Yeah. That that is a that's a a political pawn.
T.C.:Okay. Well, whatever his reasoning
JIM:for I'm why I'm getting I'm getting too far out.
T.C.:My my that's the modern remake. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
T.C.:He he I wanna I wanna take a break in a moment here, but here's what we've we've written a pretty good series so far. The turning point here is that last bargain for the baby, and now when he shows up, what is the culmination of this? It can't just be she guesses his name and he explodes. We need a good finale here. We need to to to ramp this up.
T.C.:Melethicent versus Philip kinda thing.
JIM:Do you think it should be the last deal for for the firstborn?
T.C.:Yeah. What what what would be a better deal than that or a worse deal?
JIM:What what would you think about I mean, it would take creativity on our parts as writers. Mhmm. What I a part of me likes the idea that Rumpelstiltskin it's the first deal. The the first one for for spinning straw into gold, but he manages to word it in such an offhanded way that's, oh, this is so far off and not a thing that'll ever really matter. Mhmm.
JIM:And it's through the course of the movie that the Miller's daughter realizes what she bargained away at the beginning there.
T.C.:No. I don't know. I I think him just being such a I get what you're saying if he's, like, kinda, like, kinda plucky off, kinda kinda, you know, give me your kid. Like, maybe I think this I think we should build up to it so that he he's been, like, whenever he strikes a bargain, he has a wink and a smile. But when he gets to that last bargain, boom.
T.C.:He's serious. And he's, like, he's not the smile is gone. The twinkle is gone in his eye. He's been working up to this. This has been his plan the whole time.
T.C.:This this chip right here, this is the trick the biggest trick of all is to get that kid to control her.
JIM:Like I guess I was thinking of it more like Ursula where, hey, song and dance to make you think this isn't a big deal. I Yes. Sign. Sign on the dotted line. It's mine.
JIM:Yeah. What what are the kinds of what what kind of side bet you bet you wanna make? Yeah. I The side action here? I got what I wanted.
JIM:So I'll keep I'll I'll stick around to see what happens. I'm gonna wait for that baby.
T.C.:I think certainly in his song, I would love this to be a musical. If his first song is sort of doctor Faecilia from the princess and the frog where he's and Ursula where they're like, fuzz and chut some now. I got her boys. Like, that sort of thing. Because I wanna stay true to the the tradition of Disney animated musicals, no one lies in song.
T.C.:Yeah. No one lies in song. So, like, Rumpelstiltskin laying it out to her, not the first born thing, but, like, laying all the all the track down to say this is where where this is going, and you're not paying attention because I oh, he should play a fiddle. Like, real good fiddle music.
JIM:Okay. He can be the devil.
T.C.:No. No. He's not a devil. He's a little imp. He's a Okay.
T.C.:He's a little rascally devil. But the the thing that we now have, like, we built like, what's the finale on this? Is the prince get involved? Is this a is this a what's the throwdown? Like, how does this end?
T.C.:And don't answer that right now because I wanna throw this to a commercial. Oh, okay. Real quick. Let that roommate, even if you have an idea right away, what's how does this culminate? Where does this go?
T.C.:We'll be back to find out a minute after these quick messages from six five media. Amber bag. Here we go. Miller's daughter.
JIM:So I got a bunch of ideas.
T.C.:Oh, I actually thought of something that she could bargain for that he takes in his in his slow bargaining of things. Okay. And I did it as a joke early on, but I think it might be there might be something to it. The color of her hair. Like, whatever the color like, he actually takes the color of her hair away from her.
T.C.:Like, I know that's a weird thing to think of, like, to do, but sort of
JIM:Doesn't touch on Tangled a little
T.C.:too much? Well, that's the thing that I'm I'm sort of retroactively doing. Tangled does a really good job as the fiftieth animated movie of the library to very cutely and not in a obnoxious wish kinda way
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Pay homage to
JIM:I forgot. I forgot about that one. Yeah. Know. Everyone did.
T.C.:To pay homage to the 49 that came before with little little little tidbits. So having this placed in the pantheon so that she has her hair changed and tangled like, oh, it's like in Rumpelstiltskin.
JIM:I'm because of how much we're what we're building into this Mhmm. I'm thinking less and less that this is a dark age.
T.C.:Okay.
JIM:Dark era movie. I think this is a Renaissance movie. I think this is a nineties movie.
T.C.:Okay. I the the I the idea of of fiddle music being played in this makes me happy. So
JIM:so I I I get whether it's the first deal or or last I kinda I still want it to be the first deal. It does it doesn't have to be, but here's what I'm thinking. Here's some other stuff that goes on throughout the movie. Mhmm. And whenever she leaves the the the the dungeon when she gets brought up
T.C.:The chambers. Don't call it a dungeon.
JIM:So, like, at the party, it's not that other people have their own little gamble demons. Mhmm. It's Rumpelstiltskin who is also schmoozing at the party, and he is making deals.
T.C.:Oh, yes.
JIM:And he is playing games with people.
T.C.:Yes. I like this.
JIM:He is gaining favors, winning debt Mhmm. From them.
T.C.:Striking deals. Yeah. Constantly see that hand come out. Like a whole song and dance number about him and every time his hand comes out, hand comes out and got like a close-up of him shake shake shake.
JIM:Even having that be like this this background through line while the Miller's daughter and Prince are dancing and it's actually supposed to be their scene in the background. We see him talking to different people and we see little hand we see hands getting shaken and stuff like that. Mhmm. But we find out through this whole thing, he's even making deals with the prince and the king and queen. Oh.
JIM:And so I'm thinking, like like, it's a chess game that he's basically lining up all these favors. So one of the things that always bothered me in Little Mermaid Mhmm. It you I might be misremembering it, but it probably makes more sense. She turns
T.C.:king Triton Triton.
JIM:Yeah. And a whole bunch of other people into the the withered Me. Kelp things. Mhmm. They never signed a deal.
JIM:She she She just forced it.
T.C.:She got Triton's crown and and stat
JIM:and she got she got fascie with it, and she just started
T.C.:Once she had once she had his magic, then she was able to do that to them. It wasn't like they signed any deal signed any deal.
JIM:She she could just oppress them. Right. Right. I'm thinking a situation not not too dissimilar from that. Mhmm.
JIM:Maybe that's why maybe it shouldn't be that this Eric is in too close to Little Mermaid. But it's not that he he can can just start zapping people away. It's he's made deals and they are not because of how he is. Mhmm. They're not able to actually fulfill them or they've they've lost whatever game or bet that they've agreed to.
JIM:Yeah. And so they they're they're they're under his gaze and so they are forced to do his bidding. And, like, the the song and dance coming all the way back, and and the reason he wants the firstborn, the reason he wants the royal firstborn. So so in the end, like, she gets free and she's like, oh, hooray. They've the king and queen are actually good people and they've agreed to this.
T.C.:And I'm getting married to the prince.
JIM:And it turns out, no. Rumpelstiltskin does this is all by design.
T.C.:Mhmm.
JIM:Finds out that the king and queen lost whatever agreement with him. So they have to let her out and have to let her get married and have to let them have a baby that he will then have. And so he'd have a whole song and dance about how they're gonna all tragically die.
T.C.:This is And
JIM:he is going to raise that child to be the most powerful king that ever was that he will con control.
T.C.:This is a reprise of that first deal song he makes where he played all the track. That's the reprie the reprise of this song is when he he admits his big grand plan.
JIM:Sure.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah.
JIM:There there could even be a through line about it's all on you, baby.
T.C.:Yeah. I I wanna off I love
JIM:Do do do you like this?
T.C.:I I I really like this because it leads up to this big climactic.
JIM:Oh, and so Yeah. So because that's the first deal, it's not the last one where she was like, oh, if I only just didn't agree to that last thing.
T.C.:Yeah.
JIM:If it was the, oh, this whole time, this has been the plan the whole time. He's laid this from the beginning. I I didn't even know what I was signing away
T.C.:Right.
JIM:That very first night. And it all comes around Interesting. And there as he's he's he's calling in all the chips and it's all coming together in in these in in this magical way. That's when the her dad and the blue fairy come in and, like and and and there could even be a whole, like, his name is Blue. Blue.
JIM:Blue. Yeah. A thing slaps over them doing all this. And eventually, they get up to her. They whisper in her ear, and she's, hey.
JIM:Your name is Rumpelstiltskin, and the record scratched. What did you
T.C.:just say?
JIM:Rumpelstiltskin. That's your name. Like, even have even have that be that was, like, just a fun playful game that that was just a throwaway when they first met because it was, oh, hello. What's your name? Oh, I'll give you the kingdom.
JIM:Yeah. If you can guess my
T.C.:love that. Because he throws it away.
JIM:He overestimates himself even. Mhmm. She says, you agreed. If if I guessed your name, you'd give me the kingdom.
T.C.:Yep.
JIM:Then he's like, what? That's that's not wait a
T.C.:I wanna add to this. Do yourself
JIM:No. No. I think I'd so that that's why I want the dominoes to fall Yes. Those ways.
T.C.:So it should be the second deal. She gives up her necklace the first time, and then it's the second deal. And he's like, a necklace. Ba da ba ba. He does the favor.
T.C.:And the second one, hey. You're first born. Whatever. What? Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. Come on. It's just like the necklace. Just throw it away.
JIM:It's deals. It's it's we we make one after another. You can get it back later with another deal, and then we have a song about deals.
T.C.:Yeah. The the first first thing deal made, whether they whether Rumpelstilts can realize this or not, is like, if you guess my name, I'll give you the kingdom. We'll find, like, a a a deft way of having that happen. Deal number two is the necklace. Deal number three is the baby, and then so on and so forth.
T.C.:To empower her, to give her a little more and and perhaps help her father a little bit in trying to like, collect stories and learn about this. And because he's a bad gambler and she has access to to helping him, fulfill debts, this might be too much, but she's she starts making deals to help other people in the kingdom and other like, listen. Found I found a farmer who knows a thing, but his plow is broken. And he said if I could help him fix it, he'd tell me the story. Rumpel said, hey, little man, little little goblin man.
T.C.:If you make a farmer's plow, I will give you this. Like, she she's negotiating things so that she basically builds a network of heroes that help her. Not not to fight or anything, but just that she gets all these people in good graces because she also makes good she is good at gambling. She knows
JIM:how to She knows how to make deals.
T.C.:Right. So so I'm, just just a the few maybe just three occasions.
JIM:I I love it because it plays into the whole turning straw and it the Yes. That's what I meant for. The the the the
T.C.:She knows how to spin anything into gold because she is a good person, and she is there to help people and
JIM:to do good things. Oh, that's the contrast. He is working working people to get one over on Just
T.C.:swindling one person after another.
JIM:Take from them, and she's making deals to so that everyone can win.
T.C.:You know? And and and this might be a hard listen. Listen. Listen, Jim. This this might be tough for some people to understand, but there is such a thing as everybody winning.
T.C.:Right? You don't have to make deals where every one person wins and everyone loses. That's true. A fallacy. Oh.
T.C.:Oh, is it? And maybe little Rumpelstiltskin should learn that. But, yeah, you like the idea of her she's a good person. So she helps people in the castle. She helps people around the kingdom with
JIM:So so then, basically, what it is is with every knight that she returns with gold and then making the the every time she gets a little more space to do so, she meets more people and makes more deals. And so she can even spend the entire day out in the world but she's followed by guards Right. Which are very close at first, but she's so nice and she makes deals. And she always comes back to the to the dungeon Mhmm. Her
T.C.:chamber. Don't call it a dungeon. Makes us sound like monsters.
JIM:Please put the shackles on. The bracelets. Put the bracelets on. Maybe this should just be a modern one. Like I know the whole point was to put in past so that we could make a modern live action show.
T.C.:Hey. Know, Moana came out in 2016. We got a live action one coming out this year. So, you know,
JIM:what do we know? I I only say that because I I feel like the jokes we're making are more modern sensibility.
T.C.:This is for our we're doing this for
JIM:No. This is going in the script. But I no. I I think we have a strong really a strong movie here, and I think I think it could be set anywhere from the right. The early eighties.
T.C.:Through Renaissance.
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:Through modern day. Yeah. I guess there's no there's no definitive placement of where this needs to go. I know the demand says put it somewhere in the pantheon. I
JIM:guess, actually, no. It it is it is the the Renaissance or sooner because do villains get songs?
T.C.:Oh, yeah. Dude, of course. Jafar No. No. In the
JIM:in the in the earlier earlier in that story.
T.C.:I I would say that Radigan is the the origin of the villain.
JIM:The song song?
T.C.:And that's in the great mouse detective. Bette Midler has a great villain song in a rather mediocre Oliver and Company. I think the villain song started with Radigan, and it wasn't till Ursula's poor unfortunate souls that the bangers began.
JIM:So So it it basically have to be some time from in there because because Rumpelstiltskin is going to sing.
T.C.:Yes. Yeah. Agreed. A little little little turn of the a little tweak here. Yeah.
T.C.:Once all is said and done and she's freed, are we gonna do that jump in time to her being pregnant? I think that's what the story asks for, but we don't necessarily have to do it.
JIM:I think in Rumpelstiltskin's in his his his call, the the the third act he's about to win Mhmm. Kinda thing, he's he's conjuring every magic whatever was. We're seeing time is flashing forward. Right? So the the king and queen grow very decrepit and and and old while staying there.
JIM:And the the the prince and the miller's daughter, they right right. Her her her clothes actually would which would be nice by this point in the movie. Might actually be very nice. But they they they they, like, pop into a royal garb Mhmm. And that, like, the her and the prince are standing right next to each other and just she becomes pregnant.
JIM:Mhmm. In that right? Because he wants all of this now.
T.C.:I want it now. Yeah. He wants
JIM:it now. And so he's making it all happen and she doesn't give birth there.
T.C.:No. No. No.
JIM:But but she gets so she gets the name out right before Yeah. All the magic undoes. But the whole idea is
T.C.:Swirl of
JIM:they've gotten a glimpse of what the future is gonna be like. So we kinda saw what the prince and the soon to be princess will be like in a few years.
T.C.:Right.
JIM:So we don't have to jump to seeing the baby. We could. We could. I I I don't think I would mind, but I I don't think I don't think we have to go there. Do you want do you wanna go there?
T.C.:You've you've painted a beautiful picture of once all like, the the deal is made and the I dos are made, like, the the wedding happens and I do and it's like, I now pronounce you, prince and princess. The door is open and they're like, ah, I've come to collect. And then he just starts swirling and the animation just becomes this torrent of him cashing in everything all at once.
JIM:Mhmm. And Guards come forward to stop him. And and like like his his magic goes to them and like one guy, all of his his armor and weapons just pop into a barrel he's wearing.
T.C.:And the other one goes bald. Yeah. Yeah. It's similar to the things are really unraveling now. Yeah.
T.C.:It's From Jafar when Jafar is
JIM:like Yeah. Absolutely. We're basically taking bits from all the Disney movies we love, and we're putting them all in here. That's okay.
T.C.:Hey. Steal from the best. Yep. Homage to the best, I guess.
JIM:Yep. No. Actually, I'm I'm really excited about this movie now.
T.C.:And then and then she gets his name and is like, what? Oh, I guess that's the the final question then is how do How do they how do they how how do they figure it out?
JIM:Yeah. So if we wanna make it her dad, her father her father, and the the the good fairy. Do we wanna make it that it's not really a deus ex machina if we are cutting to them and watching them go on this this investigative investigative adventure. Yeah. Is that what you wanna do?
JIM:The Here because here's here's my thought for that. So we follow them. We we go to this plot b of them of these two doing this, and they're going to other villages and like, it could even in get bigger as they go. Right? Like, they go to this this other village Mhmm.
JIM:That, oh my god, what happened here? It looks like a whirlwind came through here. Yeah. No. It was mister skin.
T.C.:Or or or the little man, like puck.
JIM:No. No. The the reason is basically the even he yeah. Each each place he he goes, he used a portion of his name.
T.C.:Okay. Now in the original fairy tale, the queen sends, gosh. Yeah. How does she figure this out? Someone hears Rumpelstiltskin say his name and comes back and tells her.
T.C.:I think that's how it happens in the original version.
JIM:Great. We're doing a version of that.
T.C.:Yeah. Having having pieces of his name throughout. Not bad. I don't mind that.
JIM:Mister Rumpel, mister Stilts Rumpel. Mister Skinny. And then
T.C.:it's like, well, what order did he destroy the world in? Rum, pill, still, skin.
JIM:Sure.
T.C.:I think that's his name.
JIM:But it but right. It goes from they they they find this village and it's been hit by a whirlwind. Yeah. Yeah. They go to a city and, oh, it's it's destitute.
JIM:They go they go they they reach the border of this whole other land Mhmm. And it is just desiccated and and and and decayed and destroyed.
T.C.:Yeah.
JIM:And and and each one it was a man who promised plenty
T.C.:Yeah.
JIM:And gave none. A lot. And he went by Rumpel. He went by Stilts.
T.C.:Stilts. Rumpel. Rumpel. Yeah. That's that's not bad.
T.C.:I like that. That's it's it's simple enough while still being, you know, piece piece it together. Mhmm. Uses the rule of three really nicely. Gets gets the father back in time.
T.C.:Maybe even if it's a matter of, like, why isn't my father here to walk me down the aisle kind of thing. It's like, I wish I wish it's it's okay. He's gone. He he for whatever reason, she thinks he's abandoned her her so that when he runs in, he's like, daughter, father. And then in the in the whirlwind, he comes and he's like, his name is you know, no one asked you, pops.
T.C.:Boom.
JIM:Maybe even better, they show up. And so so then maybe we could even like like the prince has they all know maybe maybe none of them actually put it together. It's her. So they say, you're mister Rumpel because he's made this deal off handed with so many people because he's like, no. That's not my name.
JIM:That's not my name. Nice try. Stilts. Stilts. Yeah.
JIM:Mister Stilts. No. It's not Not
T.C.:again. Not again.
JIM:And it's her watching watching all of these people fail and hearing all of these names. Skin.
T.C.:She's like name is mister skin.
JIM:Rumpelstiltskin. And that's when yeah. What? Rumpelstiltskin. Your name is Rumpelstiltskin.
T.C.:And and again, to do all the work to make sure we do the work well in that first encounter with him, knowing that he likes to, like, put stuff together. Like, he Mhmm. He his wordplay, how he how he he makes deals at the to see the link of everything.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:And that's what he has done. He's he's he's laying down track to, like, connect all the dots. Bet mixed metaphor there. She yeah. She puts it daily and goes, boom.
T.C.:And then it's Mhmm. And then in the story, he tears himself apart. Is he just gonna pop out of existence here? No. And all of his deals end.
T.C.:The barrel goes away back to armor. The hair grows back on the guard. The everyone is free from his because you promised me if I guessed your name, you'd give me the kingdom. I want my kingdom. Give it to me.
T.C.:Now that goes with all its people and and then he's left with nothing.
JIM:Yes. Short answer, yes. I think we can we can tweak this. We can sweeten it. Mhmm.
JIM:I'm wanting to find a way to do exactly what you said where even he learns this lesson. Yeah. Because right now, it teaches him the lesson of there are winners and there are losers. And in this case, he is the loser. Yeah.
JIM:We can stick with that. I think that's that's good enough. We can call it a day. Mhmm. But I think there could be a way we could end this where that's what it seems like and that is enough.
JIM:But our Miller's daughter is even better than that.
T.C.:I I I like this because the thing we're risking because I evoked Jafar's ending. Yeah. It's a little similar where he gets tricked into being in the lamp and sent to the Cave Of Wonders. We don't want something like that. So you're pitching that he he doesn't get she doesn't destroy him in the end?
T.C.:Yeah. She's like
JIM:I'm I'm I'm thinking
T.C.:I'm left with nothing. Well, let me make you a deal.
JIM:Either they had already made a deal Yeah. Going going all the way back even to that one. Mhmm. Where, he's like he says, if you can guess my name, I'll give you the kingdom. And and she says, if you could do something like that, I would do this.
JIM:Boom. Yeah. So either it's something like that. So then way he's like, no. I lost all this stuff.
JIM:And she's like, yeah. But what about the other part? Yeah. Or or so just Yeah. Either that or, yes, she offers one last
T.C.:Yeah.
JIM:She offers this one last deal She's
T.C.:for for one. It gives it gives her goodness, and it doesn't it doesn't mean we have to kill the villain. We just have to teach him a lesson kind of thing. Mhmm. Even though he's a little monster man
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:To have him sitting there and going, I've lost everything. I have nothing now. Like, blank. Like, the string breaks on his fiddle. He's like, ah.
T.C.:And she's like, then, yeah, then let me make one more deal with you. And shakes her and and extends her hand to him so then we get an epilogue of the happily ever after. And he if we can find something, we don't necessarily have to decide now what would genuinely make this guy happy. He wants everything, but maybe maybe there's a way for him to have it all without having it all kind of thing. Like, what's a way to keep this little goblin in check who has immense power
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:We don't have to hate we don't have to be enemies. We can be friends kind of thing.
JIM:I don't know right now.
T.C.:Yeah. I don't I don't have anything up that's flying off the top of my head either. But this is great. This is fun. Like, you're you're right.
T.C.:This could just easily be a a brand new one. But, like, I like this. I I I'm gonna say this. If this makes it to the finale, if this makes it to the finale, listeners, it will be a musical. Oh, oh, oh.
T.C.:Will do the music.
JIM:Oh, shit.
T.C.:Yeah. Yep. I'm saying it now on the record. If this makes it to the finale, we will do the music. We will sing.
T.C.:This will be a You keep
JIM:you keep putting so many things on
T.C.:the record. I am putting it on the record, Jim, for our listeners, for the show. Dee, thank you for that. But We're not done. We're not done there.
T.C.:And now we don't have to spend too much time on
JIM:this. It's like this. So everything we just said that we animated Yeah. We're now gonna do it live action.
T.C.:You're welcome. Money money money money money money. But they won't pay us because we only wrote the animated part. Correct. Yeah.
T.C.:There you go. Did you have that pocketed that
JIM:you're saying? I didn't.
T.C.:Yeah. I think I think in looking at the modern versions and Dee was not wrong. 25 on the books of Disney. Now some of them are like, there's two Alice in Wonderlands, but there's only there's the sequel to the one. The first one was the animated like, a rough sequel to the animated one, and the second one is a sequel to that sequel.
T.C.:Like, but for the most part, yeah, Cinderella, Maleficent is the alternate version of Sleeping Beauty. Aladdin was a one for one. Lion King, Jungle Book, one for ones. But then Lion King has the Mufasa movie that just came out that counts within those 25.
JIM:Okay.
T.C.:Yeah. So to do a live action version of this, I I looked at something like Sleeping Beauty. For the record, I am not a fan of the live action Disney movies. Another thing I'm putting on the record.
JIM:I think I've only seen Sorcerer's Apprentice Mhmm. And Aladdin. Aladdin.
T.C.:Yep. Saw Aladdin the other just before the pandemic.
JIM:I don't think I've seen any of the others.
T.C.:They are they okay. I on one hand, don't like them. On the other hand, theater community theater, high school theater, college theater, Broadway, like, time and time and time again
JIM:They do the same place.
T.C.:They do the same place over and over and over again. So I can crow all I want about, like, ah, there's such a there's such a devoid of creativity that they're just cashing in on the name recognition.
JIM:And think it it's, like, we point at Disney for doing this because they're such huge classics. Mhmm. But technically, that's franchises we've been watching franchises do it for twenty five years. Transformers by Michael Bay is just an animated
T.C.:Version of the cartoon.
JIM:Made live action.
T.C.:I Snow White has been adapted about 25 times through cinema's history. It started as a book. It became an anime a live action silent film, so on and so forth. So adaptation, so on and so forth. I can I can complain about it all I want, but, here here's what's gonna happen?
T.C.:I think I made this prediction to you. I don't know if I've done it on the air. This is what Disney's gonna do, everybody. We were here in this kitchen in in in this
JIM:In this kitchen. This You say you can say it. We're in a kitchen.
T.C.:The kitchen's over there. We're in the dining room. We were in this space, and I said this to someone. I I swear you were here for it. This is what Disney's gonna do.
T.C.:Once they run this well dry
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:They are going to this is my prediction. They're going to take the classics. They're gonna take Lion King again
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Take the original audio of Lion King's animated movie, remaster it so it's nice and clean, and reanimate it with whatever the whatever the current version of animation is. So for example, Ocarina of Time using the Unreal Engine now looks awesome, but it's still Ocarina of Time just with the new skin on it when when, people take the Unreal Engine and read Mhmm. Classic games. Imagine, taking Cinderella exactly as it is and just reanimating it with the Frozen animation. That's what Disney's gonna end up doing.
T.C.:That's my guess. I that sounds insane.
JIM:I think I don't think they're gonna keep anything from the original other than, like, the script. I think they're gonna reanimate and and and Re
T.C.:voice it? No. I I might I
JIM:they're re voice it.
T.C.:That's what they're doing now. I'm saying once that well, the drums dry, they're just gonna but actually, hook it. Don't do that. Don't do that. Were we to do a live action version of this, I looked to Beauty and the Beast, which expanded upon the history of Belle's mother, who is a a not even an entity in Sure.
T.C.:The animated movie.
JIM:Nor ours. Nor ours. Belle's mother is not in our movie either.
T.C.:She's not in this Rumpelstilts movie. No. No. We'll see what the fans what the fans are gonna
JIM:They want that crossover.
T.C.:They want they're make fan canon. They're like, did you know the the Miller's Daughter from because the movie takes place in France, it's actually Belle's Ma. Oh. Yeah. Because the castle if you look at the castle, looks a little a little familiar, doesn't it?
JIM:It does. Yeah.
T.C.:It's like the boat that Ariel's in Yeah. In The Caribbean
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:Is Tarzan's parents' boat. No. No. No. No.
T.C.:No. I'm sorry. Frozen's parents' boat, and Elsa and Anna's mom and dad made it to Africa and had a baby Tarzan. That's what people think.
JIM:Ariel's not in The Caribbean. She is in the live action.
T.C.:The animated
JIM:one. Not in the animated one. Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. Do you think Sebastian the crab shows that music because he just likes
JIM:it? The culture of Atlantis, which is is across the world.
T.C.:That is not Atlantis. That's Triton's kingdom.
JIM:Yeah. The kingdom of underwater.
T.C.:Under the sea.
JIM:Yeah. Which sea?
T.C.:The Caribbean.
JIM:I'm pretty sure that's the Mediterranean.
T.C.:In our live action wait.
JIM:In the live action one, it's the Caribbean.
T.C.:What are we gonna call this movie? Are we gonna call it Rumpelstiltskin? Yeah. I mean, why not? Right?
T.C.:Yeah. Okay. Even even though it's not a princess' name. Oh, you know what? It would sell better because it's not a princess' name.
T.C.:Yeah. We don't wanna call it princess Miller's daughter. No. It's a really strange that's the that is the poor interpreted translated version of the title in some, like, bootleg Hong Kong knockoff DVD. It's Princesses Miller's Daughter.
T.C.:Yeah. In the in the live action, we could expand more on, yeah, what's what's her mother, maybe. I'm trying to think
JIM:of some
T.C.:other things that could be expanded upon in the live action. The prince gets a song.
JIM:Apparent apparently, my favorite side plot, the politics Yeah. Of the kingdom and and the the bordering kingdoms
T.C.:Yeah.
JIM:Which for the little of the live action I've seen does play into it. Jasmine wanted to represent her kingdom.
T.C.:Yes.
JIM:They didn't talk too much about the other kingdoms, but the whole point was to rise to political power.
T.C.:Yes. Precedent. Precedent. Okay. And then there's your live action one.
T.C.:Is that are we are we we cheating our demander out of this? Make it easy. Then make your own live action adaptation for a modern audience. Yeah. I I don't I just because Disney does it, just one for one it as much as possible.
JIM:So if anything, what we didn't follow was we didn't definitively put it in a past age to then make a more modern contemporary version.
T.C.:Well, you actually placed it by saying
JIM:Initially, he because the
T.C.:villain has a song. It needs to go between Great Mouse Detective and hold on.
JIM:Now. No. No. They they don't have they don't have villains now. They don't have proper villains, so it has to be before
T.C.:Mother Gothel has a villain song. Listen to your mother. So that's that's number 50. Doctor Facilier has one that's 47. Yeah.
T.C.:So so between between great mouse detective and the, like, the like yeah. From after great mouse detective forward, you could place it anywhere in there.
JIM:It's a it's a pretty big pretty big swath.
T.C.:Yeah. Okay. And then so a live action adaptation of that would just be, you know, recasting it with people who look as close as possible to the actors, I guess. Oh, yeah. Where does or not.
T.C.:Where does Rumpelstiltskin take place? Because it was a Brothers Grimm story.
JIM:In the the very specific location of Europe.
T.C.:Europe. Classic. Like, German probably. Right?
JIM:Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Because, yeah, because Germany had a lot of those stories about
T.C.:It's it's a European folklore.
JIM:Right? Trickster guys.
T.C.:Yeah. So I think sort of a ubiquitous European look, But I think more German or Dutch, like somewhere in there. You know what? It's Dutch because our mother goose in Mag Universe started with Rip Van Winkle, and that's
JIM:Dutch too. So it's a German folktale. Okay. So it's assumed to be set in Germany, specifically within the king's castle.
T.C.:I have some fun little factoid here about Rumpelstiltskin. In British versions of the folklore story, stiltskin is known as Terry Top, Tom Tit Tot, and Whumpity Snoony. Stoony. Whumpity snood Stoony. Maybe we could hit like, sneak some of those names.
JIM:And those would be those would be what she guesses throughout the movie.
T.C.:Tip, tip, top. Nice try.
JIM:Close, but not at all.
T.C.:Wumpity stoopity. Yeah. I know that guy. He owes me a favor.
JIM:Or or those would be names of other beings he has in in in his bragging, in Rumpelstiltskin's bragging about how powerful he is and stuff he's done. That's those are other ones he no. No. I like this. I like it as guesses at his name
T.C.:Yeah.
JIM:Throughout the throughout the movie. Yeah.
T.C.:I think I have a guess. You're not gonna get away with this. Wumpity stoopy.
JIM:What? That's your name. Wumpity stoopy.
T.C.:Funny. Every time she, like, tries to do it, he goes, what? What did you say? Like, kind of, like, incredulously. So then when she does say Russell Stills, he goes, what?
T.C.:What did you say? Like, says it again. Sure. Yeah. Callback.
T.C.:Nice. Alright. D d what was it? D Bird d Bird Washington. How did we do?
T.C.:I we wanna know. Tin Cup Studios. Tin Cup Studios. Yes. So I I think we're gonna call it here.
T.C.:Did we meet your demand today? Did, you gotta hit us up if you agree or disagree. If you think we missed anything, please let us know. And you can message us directly over at studio demands it dot com or on Instagram at studio demands it. You can find the post for this episode and and hit the conversation there if you want.
T.C.:If you're not already, you can subscribe to us on wherever you're listening to this. And if you feel like giving us a little review, you throw can in your podcast app and then just give us a five star review and help solve the algorithm, please. Shake on it. You can find us on YouTube and TikTok where we post video content, including material not heard here on the show. Jim, where can people find us elsewhere?
JIM:We're still on Discord. Go to our website, studiodemands.com, and
T.C.:there is
JIM:a link at the top of the web page.
T.C.:Top of web page.
JIM:Join the Discord server.
T.C.:Join it.
JIM:Also, you can come on Reddit. Reddit.r/studiodemands it. Demands it. And join the conversation there. Join
T.C.:the conversation.
JIM:Yep. Yep. Hype man. Those those are the ones.
T.C.:Hype man's fun. Oh, yeah. Right? Isn't it?
JIM:Doing doing echoes is great.
T.C.:Massive thank you to Six Five Media for everything they do for us. Please check out the other Six Five shows, another Zelda podcast, an artificial podcast, a lot of great stuff. If you want more, we have a Patreon. And for a couple bucks a month, you can get episodes early, commercial free, extended double length episodes. Before this, we did a nice half hour conversation about where franchises and IP seem to be going, at least our uneducated, unqualified opinion.
T.C.:I don't know. And moving to some bonus territory here, we're gonna do a horror fairy tale movie in in the bonus section here momentarily. Yep. And also, if you subscribe, you can get movie commentary tracks, which come with bonus episodes. That the movie commentary tracks aren't just a commentary to listen to us talk through a movie.
T.C.:We also do bonus episodes that are time stamped. You go check those out, you can also just subscribe for free. Yeah. Jim, anything else?
JIM:Yeah. Well, not quite. I'm trying to cast Rumpelstiltskin in the live action version.
T.C.:Modern a modern day
JIM:Yeah. Yeah. And the the thing is I'm I'm either casting frankly too old or or like too young or or or off Yeah. Type. Yeah.
JIM:Alright. But John Lithgow. It could be John Lithgow. No. I think well, to more to that end, I the place
T.C.:What do mean it can't be me? I'd make a perfect Ripple Steel. That's not a very good John Lithgow. I'm working on
JIM:I I heard it though. I I heard it in there. It's close. Crap. I just lost his name.
JIM:Mister Bean.
T.C.:Oh, Rowan Atkinson.
JIM:Rowan Atkinson.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. Zach Galifianakis voiced him in Puss in Boots.
JIM:Zach Galifianakis voiced No. Rowan Atkinson?
T.C.:That is not true. Humpty Dumpty was the villain in Puss in Boots. Someone heard me say that at the beginning of this episode and was like, wrong. Oh. Zach Galfenacus is Humpty Dumpty is the villain in Puss in Boots.
T.C.:Rumpelstiltskin is, I think, Martin Short and the villain of Shrek forever after. Oh, okay. Sorry. I messed that up for all you Shrek fans.
JIM:Don't say it derisively. They're they're entitled to their green ogre. Those movies are beloved.
T.C.:It's true. I'm I don't know why I gotta be such a butt about it,
JIM:but That's a Marvel versus DC territory right there.
T.C.:Also, it's it's not even it's not even Martin Short. Don't know why I thought it was Wrong. It seemed like a that's a great voice for Rumpelstiltskin, but it's someone named Walt Dorn is Rumpelstiltskin. Anyhow, can you think of any
JIM:Oh. Yeah. I I
T.C.:I killed enough time. Now you
JIM:go ahead. David. David. David.
T.C.:Eugene Levy's son?
JIM:Yes.
T.C.:Yes.
JIM:Yes. David Levy. David. David Levy is Rumpelstiltskin in the live action version. Oh my god.
T.C.:Daniel's wifey. Daniel. Daniel.
JIM:That David is his character.
T.C.:That's actually kinda funny. That's that's not bad.
JIM:Like, I honestly, I keep imagining the animated version as, like, he's dressed like a jester. Like like, imagine a green version of the Noid, if you can remember what the Noid looks like. Granted, oh, that looks that looks a lot like the the fairy from from Zelda. What what's that?
T.C.:Oh. Hey. Tingle. Yeah. Oh, no.
T.C.:No. No. Navi's the fairy. Oh. Tingle is the Tingle.
JIM:The Ties are the ones. Yeah. That guy. So imagine a cross between Tingle and the Noid is how I imagine Rumpelstiltskin being animated.
T.C.:The the
JIM:In in in his most common form, obviously, he can transform into other outfits and looks and things because he is magical, not not unlike the genie.
T.C.:Yes. And another thing it does in classic the best Dylan Disney villain fashion, I mean this with all love in the world, it's gay coded. Oh. Like Alright. No.
T.C.:I mean that I mean that is a very, very positive thing. Yes. Dan Levy, man. You're you're in, buddy. We're calling you in.
T.C.:The the we don't we're
JIM:not gonna could even I can because he would like the animated movie, Rumpelstiltskin will be animated in this very, very sinister again, what did you say? Like, as he's calling in all his chips and all that. But I can see in the live action version when it where it's Daniel Levy, it's more just like a record scratch. He just turns and goes, what? Yeah.
JIM:What did you say?
T.C.:I can David's incredulity that he has so well in Schitt's Creek.
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:Well, then in that case, Annie the oh
JIM:my god. We're just gonna we're just gonna cast all of Schitt's Creek Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In our live action couples.
T.C.:Annie Murphy is is is the Miller's daughter. Yeah.
JIM:Sure.
T.C.:Catherine O'Hara is the queen. No. No.
JIM:She she to be younger. She has she, I'm gonna say, granted they're getting older at this point. The red haired girl from stranger things.
T.C.:Oh, Sadie Silk.
JIM:Yes. Sadie Silk. I I choose Sadie Silk as the Miller's daughter.
T.C.:Yeah. Rumor has it. She's gonna be Mary Jane.
JIM:Rumor. Anyway,
T.C.:another fun thing we get to decide if we decide to develop this any further is what this princess' name is. We know her last name is Miller, but we'll we'll figure out her what this princess is, and people can be all mad because she's not really a princess. She becomes one at the end. In fact, she becomes queen. Jane.
JIM:Jane. Jane Miller.
T.C.:Jane Miller. We already have a Jane. Do we? Tarzan.
JIM:Oh. Yeah. Is she a princess?
T.C.:She's Belle's daughter.
JIM:That timeline doesn't work.
T.C.:Yeah. She has the missus Potts tea set. Yeah.
JIM:Maybe grand Grand timeline. It has to be It's for
T.C.:They're related. Okay. Alright, everyone. Thank you so much for listening. We will be back again to improve the world in cinema and challenge ourselves to screen write something fun and cool based on one of your demands.
T.C.:That's an outro. I'm TC. That's Jim. That's all.
JIM:Did miss pots turn back into a woman?
T.C.:Oh my god. That poor woman just turned her back into a pot.