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The State News discusses issues and the cultural impact of entertainment news including TV & film, fashion, music and more.
Welcome back to House Lights, your one stop shop for everything you need to hear about this week in the world of entertainment. As always, I'm your host, Liz Nas, joined by my beautiful, wonderful cohost,
Claire:Claire Donahoe. And today, we have
Liz:a very special guest. Introduce yourself.
Jacob:How's it going, everybody? Jacob Smith, marketing coordinator here at the State News.
Liz:And new host of Sports Roundtable.
Jacob:Check it out. You don't wanna Check
Liz:it out. What'd you just talk about on Sports Roundtable?
Jacob:Yeah. Filmed that yesterday, actually. We, me and Luke Joseph chopped it up. We were talking a little bit about MSG Sports. We've been on a heater.
Jacob:Like, every sport's playing well, so it's been very nice to kinda follow that trend and, very exciting stuff, so I recommend checking out the episode.
Liz:You are such a podcast guy. You're, like, you sound like your own podcast voice and everything. I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was next to a professional right now. Me and Claire just like on the and then you actually have, like, a podcast Thank you.
Liz:And, like, things to say. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, today we're gonna talk a little we're gonna be we're gonna be serious today.
Liz:We're being serious journalists and all because of Claire, journalists and all because of Claire, and her genius. That's true. So today we're gonna talk about TikTok and the TikTok fan, some of the, responses from, you know, the world, because everyone's on TikTok Right. And that's a statistic, every single person. And that's not true.
Liz:And, yeah, just maybe some of the political nuance behind it. And Claire did research today, like, for a real podcast I did. And pulled together some history of it. So Yes. Claire, first of all, I want you to answer why you were so interested in doing this and also give us a little bit of that opening context.
Claire:Okay. In
Liz:our notes right here.
Claire:Well, yes. I've been interested in this because of all the discussion that's been going around pre ban, post ban. Like, TikTok is back as we all know. And, I don't know. I just my roommates and I were talking about it a ton, and then I just feel like it was important to talk about, especially here, like, with journalism, marketing, things that we even use it for outside of just personal use.
Claire:Mhmm. I don't know. I just think there's more to the conversation than, like, oh, I like this app. It's going away. It seems like especially the context of time with which all this went down.
Claire:So, yeah, I'm gonna do kind of a brief timeline of why TikTok is even in this conversation and why we're having an entire episode devoted to it. This following set of bullet points is from AP News and something called TechTarget, which is a cybersecurity situation. Anyway, so the government has long been wary of TikTok, which I feel like at this point is just general knowledge because there's claims that it, you know, is bad for cybersecurity data, like maintenance, stealing data, all that stuff, because it's not owned by an American company, and they're angry about it. So in 2019, which I just learned this, the Pentagon banned TikTok on all military phones because they were just so wary of it's, like, international pull. Meanwhile, it becomes the 2nd most downloaded app in the United States.
Claire:So it's interesting that throughout this whole timeline, despite these slow kind of, you know, polls to keep TikTok back, it still just keeps running full force and gets more and more popular as the years go on. Later in 2019, Trump, who was in office at the time, proposes a TikTok ban as the government is, like, getting even more weary of data storage and that it wasn't an American app. Biden comes into office and then kinda picks this back up. So Trump says that, and I think something we'll talk about later is one thing about Trump is he he I mean, he says a lot of things. And with how fast news comes out, which a lot of things also circulate on TikTok super fast, it's very hard to keep up with it all, and I think that kind of got lost in there.
Claire:Like, he was like, we're gonna get rid of TikTok, and then it didn't happen. And then when it comes back and it looks like all the messages are about Trump resurrecting it, it's quite strange. So Biden comes in office, picks it back up, signs legislation in April of 2024 requiring that TikTok's China based parent, ByteDance, sells to a US owner within a year or shuts it down in America, losing a 170,000,000 American users. And Biden says you have until January 19, 2025 to get this done. Obviously, they didn't like that, so they filed a lawsuit against the US, and the struggle just kind of continues.
Claire:Meanwhile, people are still using the app. It like, nothing has really changed for, like, the mass public. And a lot of people don't even know truly if it's I mean, you hear a lot of people say, it is it even gonna get banned this time because this threat was just kind of like the boy who cried wolf situation for people who weren't gonna do, you know, obviously comb through, like, lots and lots of paperwork on all of this Yeah. Which is totally understandable. So in March of 2024, the house of representatives passes this ban or sell bill.
Claire:They're on board. It's happening, and the bill is called protecting Americans from the foreign adversary controlled applications. Basically, protecting America from TikTok. Trump asks for it to be paused approaching his inauguration, and the whole thing then starts to look very weird from a civilian standpoint. I didn't read, like, congressional data about this, but from a general point of view, it looked and people were saying that it looked like Trump was, like, saving the day because it was banned, and then hours later, it's resurrected with the message, like, you can all thank president Trump.
Claire:He wasn't president quite yet. He was hours away. Not at all. So the timing of this whole thing is just something that seems unusual to me, which is why I really wanted to talk about it also because TikTok's just so huge. And it was very briefly banned on January 19th, revived hours later with a brief message from Trump the day before his inauguration.
Claire:The app is currently live, but only for 90 days because they were they gave ByteDance an extension, essentially. You have 90 days to comply with our law. But then once again, you know, you have the general public saying, like, yeah. Well, it's just gonna stay. Like, there's no way they actually get rid of it.
Claire:Right. This is interesting, which Liz actually brought this to my attention. Users with TikTok installed can still access it. So I had it and then couldn't access it for, like, 12 hours, and then it comes back. But if you don't have the app or you deleted it, you currently cannot download it back, which I did not know.
Claire:Which is true. Yeah. Just a lot of back and forth. And then this, of course, obviously, causes a lot of discourse on the app from creators who make money on TikTok, who don't, who just enjoy using it, and quite a big response came from it socially.
Liz:Talk about because, you know, you're you're bringing up all this stuff about, like, the pushback, like, the fear. You know, where is it you know, what where is the message coming from that, like, TikTok needs to stay? Like, maybe in both of your guys' research or, like, just your opinion, you know, where is this, like, it needs to stay coming from? Because I feel like there's a lot of fear behind.
Claire:It's definitely coming from, I would just say, like, the general public. Right. Users of the app is primarily what I'd say. Yeah. Which comes from, I believe, like, a lack of understanding of why they're trying to ban it
Jacob:Mhmm.
Claire:Combined with the rhetoric that politicians are using, which is creating it's I mean, everything is extremely divisive. Like, need I even say that? But saying things like, we're gonna take it away. We're gonna ban it. Like, then, you know, that causes people to be like, we need to rebel against this.
Claire:Like, if you have one set of language going one way, you're gonna get a more dramatic response.
Liz:Mhmm. So I
Claire:think a lot of just miscommunication circulating my favorite topic ever, which is just echo chambers specifically, like, on TikTok. Like, people are just getting fueled. Like, yeah. We we don't want this to go away, and that's where the outcry is kind of coming from.
Jacob:And I
Claire:think snowball's so fast as well.
Liz:Right. And I think it's also about, you know, freedom of speech is, like, this really big Yeah. You know, fear that people are having that, like, okay. If you take away an app that, you know, a 100 so what is it? A 170 million Americans use, then that's a 170,000,000 more voices that are Yeah.
Liz:Not being heard on this app.
Claire:Definitely in the context of Trump's presidency and him being more conservative, people are associating that with, like, right at a time where we are circulating a ton of, let's say, like, unfiltered political information. Right? As someone's transitioning into office, like, there were a lot of claims going, like, this is fishy. This is an attack on free speech in the digital age. This has gone on so so so long.
Claire:Right. At one point, you were behind it. Now when it's you're about to be in office, you're you're suddenly gonna, like, be on our side. Like, it just seemed like a lot of PR related moves. That's, like, the wrong word for it.
Liz:Yeah. Yeah.
Jacob:I agree too. I think you guys kinda brought up a good point about the freedom of speech aspects. Like, TikTok is a career for
Claire:Yeah.
Jacob:Plenty of its users. A good portion of the population on TikTok relies on it for an income, relies on it for a way to make money, what relies on it just to express themselves and stuff like that. And that's where I feel like people kinda were scared and really couldn't handle it in a way. Like, people were this this was had a genuine impact Mhmm. Culturally, physically, mentally on all like, a lot of good portion of its users.
Jacob:And I think it's just because the career standpoint, like, some people make videos for a living. TikTok does pay its creators very, very well compared to social other social media apps. Yeah. And I think that's also one of the biggest reasons why some of these creators really didn't know what to do, what their future looks like, how they're gonna make money going forward, especially with, the threat of having to move to other apps or, stuff like that.
Liz:Right. And with your the thing about, like, all these people actually, like, depend on TikTok for their career, for their, you know, their money. I I you know, going through every, you know, local news, outlet, they were, you know, obviously trying to localize the TikTok story, and every single one was, like, local creator that makes, like, like, 6 figures on TikTok is now gonna have to file for unemployment and, like, what are they gonna do now? And it's just, like, almost every single small town, like, has that creator, that, you know, got their big start from that. And now it's kind of just, like, okay.
Liz:What do I do now? Yeah. Because obviously, there's, like, peep most people that I know personally are, like, oh, what am I gonna do before I go to bed at night? Like, I feel like that's, like, the post that I kept seeing. Like, how am I gonna get to sleep if I'm not watching TikTok?
Liz:Right. Instagram reels, obviously. Don't do that. It was really scary. But then but then it's also, like, okay.
Liz:But what am I gonna do for, like, a job? And, like, are we gonna get another Secret Lives of Mormon Wives then? And that's not really the focus, but I just thought
Claire:of Right. There's a lot
Liz:of writing on it.
Claire:I also think the outcry was so high, 1, because of the population of users, but, 2, because there was so much of that slow, weird build up back and forth, will they, won't they, no one actually really believed it was ever gonna go away. So when it did, it felt, probably, for many people who are especially depending on it for an income, extremely sudden. Right. And that obviously causes even more heightened emotions. It's not like they had time to put their 2 weeks in from TikTok.
Claire:I mean, they they did if you look at these, like, this these research points, but they didn't know that because the public wasn't really being cohesively informed all of them at once with the same information about this. Yeah. So, yeah, I agree. And that is a huge reason why. And then on top of, you know, people feeling really passionately about free speech and how information circulated.
Claire:So many people coming out, like, towards the end, which we can talk about, like, the response and trends that kind of started in the the final days of TikTok. But people saying, you know, I've learned so much on this app. There's so many things that I just would not have gathered from my local news source, not because in a failure of reporting, but just Oh, yeah. In how quickly you can gather information and connect with people who you wouldn't have otherwise.
Liz:Not to jump to the journalism thing, but there is this, like, feeling of a lack of reporting on many, many topics in the mainstream media. And I think a lot of people found that independent journalism on TikTok. Mhmm. And they feel like and that's, like, part of the free speech thing is, like, they feel like a lot of journalists and this is a conversation I had in my broadcast journalism class actually. A lot of journalists at, like, big media companies, whether that be broadcast or, like, the big four newspapers, New York Times, whatever, like, have these, these editorial pressures to not, you know, focus on things.
Liz:A lot of times on TikTok, they were talking about, like, you know, Israel and Palestine and stuff like that, that, like, they just felt like they couldn't get that news from, like, mainstream media because, you know, that's not what the board wants or that's not what donors to mainstream media want. But there was so much independent journalism on TikTok that they felt like they could tap into, and now that's, like, gone.
Claire:And very accessible as well. I mean, you see professionals in fields, not in news. Like, I just the other day, I came across a TikTok of someone who's pursuing her master's in public health.
Liz:Yeah.
Claire:And she was like, I'm gonna start making TikToks about what I learned in my classes. I mean, she's not a news anchor, and she would never be sharing that really any other way. But she's a professional in her field and can make that information very accessible, especially as you enter a presidency where that's becoming not so for the time being. So
Liz:Right.
Claire:Yeah. Do we wanna talk about responses?
Liz:Yeah. I
Claire:was about to say, unless we could talk about alternatives
Liz:as well. That moment of, like well, and it it also happened, like, hours early as well.
Claire:Right. Everyone thought that it was gonna be, like, well, January 19th and then get 1. It was hours before because my roommates were like, I wanted one more. It's the same thing. Like, I wanted one more scroll before before bed.
Claire:Like but okay. Who would like to start with their experience when TikTok You. Went okay. Well, I was with my roommates. We were at the bar, and
Liz:we came home. And I
Claire:was putting something on TV, and one of my roommates just, like, lets out this scream. And she's like, no. What are they doing? Like, I just wanted to come home, take off my shoes, sit down, and watch TikTok before it goes away. And then we all went on our phones, and we realized that message pops up that's like, it's currently unavailable, and it just wouldn't let you Yeah.
Liz:It literally
Claire:access it. Scroll. Which felt very, very eerie. And I kind of was like, k. This is
Jacob:Yeah.
Claire:Definitely a moment in, like, a moment in history, truly. I was like, this is very bizarre. So we just kinda talked about it, and I was like, this is just so unfortunate. Before I knew it was gonna go I was supposed to be on the private story. Yeah.
Claire:A Yeah. Then I went on a rant in private Snapchat story, which, you know, solves all the world's problems Well, yeah. All the time just to people who agree with with my friends. But, before TikTok went away, I even fell into the, like, goodbye TikTok thing. Like, I post, like, creative writing on TikTok.
Claire:Well, yeah. You took
Liz:so much to talk about.
Claire:A video that was like, if this goes away, like, this is where you can find my work. And, like, this is super like, I just candidly, the video was kinda like, this is super weird, and it feels weird to even, like, make this. But I saw so many other people doing it, and this time, I actually believed it was gonna be banned. And it I mean, it momentarily was. So the whole thing just felt very weird.
Jacob:And I'm
Claire:gonna say dystopian just to sit there and be like, oh, we can't use it. And I don't know. You could think about it like it's just an app. Like, what do you mean you could log on an app? But it it's so big.
Claire:Like, it was it was more than that.
Liz:Have life for, like, everybody and, like, that's the way you communicate with all your friends. But I before we go, I wanna actually ask you about because, like, if you don't know, Claire Naha is a great writer
Claire:Well, thank you.
Liz:And she has a very big following on or has have you seen the followers of Divtone? Like, because, like, people are home?
Claire:It's been, like, about the same. I def I mean, I I mean
Liz:deleted the information.
Claire:I slowed down, like Oh. Oh. I definitely slowed down posting because I was, like, this just feels very bizarre. Like, it's going away, and it was weird. And then people I mean, it was nice of them, but people were commenting, like someone commented, oh, I'm gonna be so sad when you get off this app.
Claire:And someone was like, oh my god. Are you American? No. I'm like, okay. This is getting weird.
Liz:Yes. I have an American accent.
Claire:Oh. I was like, well, yes. Sorry. I'll be leaving on
Liz:a week. You were in Michigan many times, actually. It's, like, one of the core things you write about.
Claire:This very strange But, like, how do you like,
Liz:are you gonna move to a different app? Like, how does it feel to see, like, that thing that you've, like, grown? Like
Claire:Yeah. So, fortunately, because I started doing it on Instagram, that was just kind of I just kinda started doing TikTok to practice, like, reading the pieces out loud, and it ended up just kind of, like, starting to work out, which was wonderful. And in that, like, goodbye video, I had just kinda said, like, I don't know. Let's go like, this is weird, but, like, you could find my work other places. I didn't really plan to, like, go to another app or anything like that.
Claire:It's not like I have, like, hundreds of thousands of followers. Like, I just I was like, this is this is fine. But it was quite strange. And then I posted again when the app went live again, and in that video, just kind of addressed, like, this is super weird. Like, I don't wanna just make a video that's, like, here's a poem for you as this app was, like, dark for however long.
Claire:So, yeah, kind of not really, like, a very polished sounding answer, but it was just strange. And then watching my friends kind of react on all levels. I mean, we all have our own personal reasons why we were sad. TikTok went
Jacob:Yeah.
Claire:Whether it just be the doomscroll before bed or larger implications of, like, you make money or this is how you share political, social knowledge. So I don't know. It was it was weird. But, yeah, the the loud, anguished cry from my roommate really, like, summed it up. She was like, what are they doing?
Claire:I was like, let's just go to bed.
Liz:Like, okay. Good night. Yeah. Jacob.
Jacob:Yeah. My experience was a little bit different than Claire's, but,
Liz:No no screaming?
Jacob:Yeah. Well, I would I would not from me, but from some of the other people in the room. I was actually at my friend's house watching the Lions game because we live in Michigan where the Detroit Lions are huge here. I am a die hard Lions fan. But this was, like, the one day for me I was like, alright.
Jacob:The Lions are on, guys. Like, we I I and this is the one of the first times I've watched a game, like, especially a playoff game because I haven't seen many. But, like, at my friend's house, I'm normally kinda just locked in in my own apartment by myself because I wanna watch. But, I was like, you know what? I'll go to my friends today, and, obviously, I knew that TikTok ban was gonna be the day after or at least supposed to be.
Jacob:So, yeah, I'll get to the sudden sudden point of it being banned, but, I was really kinda just trying to watch the game, and then all of a sudden, I just hear screams. I'm like, well, there's not a big play. It's not like, Jamere Gibbs is running down the field or anything, but everybody's like, oh, no. Like, TikTok. Like, it's not working, and I'm like, oh, well, here we go.
Jacob:But also, it's significant because you like, you're gonna remember that. I'm gonna remember that for the rest of my life where I was when that was banned, for the moment being, but it was really just crazy. Like, everybody kinda started to kinda halt at the same time and pull out their phones, check oh, wait. Hold on. It's not working for me either.
Jacob:But I actually had a few like, one of my my roommate who was sitting right next to me at the time, he was actually still able to scroll a little bit. So, like, people, like, had the message, you know, the the banned message where it's like Yeah. Thank you, whatever. Like, we're gonna you can't use your app right now. And my friend, like, it it wasn't the prettiest scroll.
Jacob:Like, it was a lot of lag and a lot of Yeah. Unnecessary, unusual videos.
Claire:He was fighting to shut down.
Liz:Yeah. He he was like he
Jacob:was like, I'm gonna do it until I can't anymore. But, like, there was some people with different Yeah. Like, screens. Like, they could scroll still. And, that was just very interesting.
Jacob:I'm not the biggest TikTok user myself. I will use it occasionally, maybe once a day or so, and I still am very up to date with cultural and TikTok trends and stuff like that.
Claire:Right.
Jacob:But it's it's obviously significant. It was very different. I think, Claire, you mentioned before this the suddenness of this being banned. Like, we all thought it was gonna be the day after. Mhmm.
Jacob:And then all of a sudden when this message keeps coming up, like, I I even got my my phone. I think the lines were on offense. I put up my phone. I'm like, well well, if everybody else is gonna check, I mean, I might as well. But, it was definitely very unusual.
Jacob:It's an experience that I've never I can't really recall myself ever having before, especially just with an app that has this much significance. I don't think we're probably gonna see anything like that for a while. TikTok has become Yeah. Probably hands down the biggest social media app of history since social media has existed. A 170,000,000 or a 170,000,000 users in America alone is just crazy.
Jacob:But it's, like, kind of something that everybody can just come together to relate to. Whether it was for a sad reason where it was momentarily banned, or when we all rejoice the next day when it came back or hours later or whatever. It was definitely just very interesting, just to be there and feel like I said for someone that doesn't use it as often to still be able to experience it and be like, wow. This is really happening, I guess. Yeah.
Jacob:It was it was very different.
Liz:So you guys weren't personally affected by Vine going down when it did? So no. Actually, I was What? That's insane. No.
Liz:I if I get out, like, my old iPad, which I had from maybe, like like, 5th and 6th grade. If I get out, Vine is still on there. I've tried. You can't get on it. But, like, I lost so many one direction edits that day.
Liz:And, like, like, 6th grade me was really, really upset about it. But Vine was, like, a big thing for me. And then I was, like, it's just all over again. They just wanna take away my edits folder. But no.
Liz:Actually, the one of the last times I pre gamed with miss Campbell Byrd, who is a multimedia reporter here, we conglomerated all of our edits and that was our pre game before we went out to the bars.
Claire:To get to say goodbye to TikTok, we People were doing, like
Jacob:Yes.
Claire:Tiny little ceremonies or, like, I even, like, note it on here. People like, throw it back to this trend. This is what started it all, and it's like a really old dance video.
Liz:Oh, yeah. It's scary. Those freaked me out.
Claire:Or, like, people I don't know. I had a couple friends just, like, post a bunch of, like, their super old drafts or, like, we were going through a bunch of stuff. Like, people with their friends both on and off the app are having, like, little tiny goodbye
Liz:Yeah. Parties. And you're gay.
Claire:Or not.
Liz:But I won. Free game or not. But no. I so I did have a ceremony. I do love my TikTok edits.
Liz:But at the same time, right before, like, a lot of people were like, oh my gosh. Like, I'm really upset. Like, I'd like again, miss Campbellberg is a great, representation of this. She was just really upset about TikTok. She's gained also a little bit of a following because she posts a lot of her concert videos that she's taken at, like, Taylor Swift.
Liz:She's she goes to a lot of concerts. So she posts, like, these concert videos, and they've gotten, like, a lot of likes. And so she was very upset. Personally, I kept saying that it was gonna change my life for the better because I'm so sick of doom scrolling. So, I was one of the people that deleted it immediately because I was so excited.
Liz:I actually rejoiced and I did get some, you know, crap crappy looks at the bar because okay. So let me say, with the minute that it happened, I was at Dublin Square. Moment of silence for that decision?
Claire:I can't I can't
Liz:believe I wasn't at the rip. But I was I was at Dublin Square watching the Lions game Okay. When TikTok went to also watch the Lions game. And I don't even care about the Lions that much, but I I mean, it's it's exciting when they win, but I'm not like, whoo. I'm betting long.
Liz:I was at Everybody watched the Lions. The vibe the vibe in Dublin Square was somber. They they they got double hit. They got shot chasered with TikTok band, lion's loss. That's like my other
Claire:makeup band. I left Tim Can from watching the lions at halftime, and my other ones came home like, this night just keeps getting worse because they lost.
Jacob:And I was like, oh,
Claire:we all need to go to bed. It's like, they just keep coming in. I'm like, this has to end.
Liz:Please go to bed. Yeah. Yeah. I know. It was it was a very somber vibe.
Liz:I was with a Commanders fan. So she we so, yeah, I was rejoicing about TikTok. She was rejoicing about Commanders, so we were all getting crappy looks in the bar, and I said, we need to go home and get pizza.
Claire:Yeah. That's a
Liz:very good idea. We did, and we watched Victorious because we regressed back to our childhood entertainment instead of our adult entertainment. And that was, like, the same
Claire:a very I mean, I'm happy you had such a positive experience for me. This is good. Yeah.
Liz:Yeah. I personally had a great time watching Victorious. But yeah. I I guess I am a little I I am still sad that TikTok Yeah. Is well, I guess not for anybody else, but it is banned for me because I immediately was, like, yes.
Liz:Delete app. But my mom now keeps sending me texts of the, like, text of the TikToks. Yeah. And then it seems like she just keeps forgetting because I'll go, mom, I don't have TikTok anymore. She'll be like, why did you do that?
Liz:And I'm like, I I you've sent me 3 TikToks now, and I keep saying I don't have it. She's like, that's so dumb. And I'm like, sorry. No. My mom was very upset.
Liz:She called me while I was at the bar. She goes, and she left a voice mail and and said, you won't believe I was scrolling through TikTok, and then it just turned off on me. Call me back by. I'm like, I can't. I'm in Dublin Square.
Liz:But I'm so sorry, Christine. She's very attached to TikTok. Really? She loves her teacher TikToks. She said she's an English teacher, so she gets her book recommendation.
Claire:No. She was like feel bad for the teachers of TikTok.
Liz:She's really yeah. No. She's upset about she's getting rid of the teacher TikTok. She really liked getting recipes. She's distraught.
Liz:Yeah. I think a lot of people are distraught because they like to learn new things.
Jacob:Well, it's
Claire:just yeah. Like, the the whole concept of circulating knowledge, whether that's really intense knowledge, like political stuff or a recipe or something. And that's also a lot of people before and after before, during, and after the ban were stressing, like, moments in history where governments were, like, banning apps and, like, talking about this being a form of censorship and, like, stressing that we examine this larger conversation
Liz:of Right. You
Claire:know, what do we do, how else, and then people trying to organize, you know, immediately to other apps, which we'll have we'll have Jacob kinda talk
Liz:about with Yeah.
Jacob:It's a perfect segue. So, I mean, that's kind of the major outcry of the Bay after TikTok. Like, people were like, well, what next? Because, obviously, this is such a big part of people's routines and their daily routines, their lives in general. People of all ages, like your mom, kids, like, everybody's on this app.
Jacob:So I guess, like, the immediate jump to conclusion for everybody is, like, well, what do I do next? And, there were 2 apps that really kinda surged the biggest out of this TikTok ban. RedNote being the biggest. This was an app that was launched in 2013. It was also a Chinese app.
Jacob:So that was kind of the big thing of why, like, TikTok was not going to see it anymore, like, at least at the US administration, one of the band is because it was not owned by a US company. It was not owned by US officials. It was owned by a Chinese company. So Red Note, like, everybody was jumping this app, but it's the same exact problem as TikTok. Yeah.
Jacob:You it's it's still owned by China, and it's still currently under, Chinese ownership. It started more as like a shopping guide app, but it has evolved into a video app that features algorithmic videos similar to what TikTok does. The more you engage in certain content, the more of that similar content you're gonna keep seeing, every time you log on to the app. So that's it was it's very similar in that aspect, but, it's it was actually the top downloaded app, like, free app on the US App Store following the TikTok pan. So the the people that jumped ship right away were Yeah.
Jacob:Were serious about it.
Liz:That's crazy.
Jacob:Yeah. It did jumped all the way up to number 1 on the US App Store free apps chart, which is very significant. It does it's not easy to go on top of that chart. And then the other one that was kind of still gained some popularity, not as much as Red Note even if popularity is the right word just because people were just desperate, but lemon 8 was the lemon 8 was the other app that people jump to. It's an app that allows you to create videos and share them similar to TikTok, but it was more used for, like, photo carousels, recommendations, more like motivational stuff.
Jacob:Not as, like, not as much with TikTok. TikTok is very random in terms of its content. Like, you got people that will dance. You got people that will make jokes. You got just generally happy.
Jacob:So this is more for motivational purposes, but it's owned. Lemonade is owned by ByteDance, the same company that owns TikTok. So yet again, we see the same problem that's prevalent. People are jumping ship from TikTok to another app, but these other apps that they're jumping to are under the same ownership, Chinese ownership, so it's not going to work. Yeah.
Jacob:And also sorry to put the comment one more, but CapCut is also an app that got Mhmm. Shut down is still currently in the same space as TikTok. Like, if you have it, I think it's it's fine. But if you deleted CapCut along with the TikTok band, you can access CapCut as well. If you don't know what CapCut is, it is a app that's, like, you make edits from it.
Jacob:It's also partner with TikTok. So a lot of, like, the filters that you see when you log on to TikTok say made by CapCut or, like, filters produced by CapCut. You can open CapCut directly in the app, and that'll allow you to use certain filters that you maybe can't on TikTok right away. But that app also went down, with TikTok, and it's a pretty significant app in itself.
Liz:Right. Yeah. Like, it's its own, like, editing. Like, I use capcut aside from, like Yeah. For for, you know, creating our Instagram reels and stuff like that too.
Liz:So
Jacob:Yeah.
Liz:It's pretty crazy.
Claire:Do you think do you guys think that people jumping to other apps owned by ByteDance or similar to TikTok is an act of, like, rebellion? Like, will it doesn't matter if you take away TikTok. We'll just do it with another app, or is it because it was just this is what's available to me. It's also Chinese owned and might get banned in the US, but I'm just gonna do it anyway or a combination of both. Because I feel like some people I feel like I had heard nobody quote me on this, but people were purposefully demonstrating how they could expose personal data, and they're like, we literally don't care if we expose personal data because, honestly, like, you could get your data kind of stolen, like It
Liz:it already is. Online shopping. Yeah. Literally, you couldn't
Claire:get it stolen at the grocery store. So I think a lot of people were like, if that's what it is, like, we're trying to prove to you we don't care, we'll give it to another app. And Yeah. Maybe I don't know if that's why they were like, we don't even care if it's red note. Like, we'll just do it.
Claire:Yeah. Well,
Liz:number 1, I wanna talk, like, the, like, the data collection and everything. I was watching, you know, some very well filmed cinephile. Okay. Thanks, Jack. But, I was watching Citizen 4 last night, which is the Edward Snowden, documentary.
Liz:And our data is already being stolen. So it really doesn't matter where it's coming from. But that's I don't think that's the point. I don't think people are, like I don't even know if it's about rebellion. Number 1, you saying that it was, like, the number one TikTok like, the number one app after TikTok was banned is crazy to me because I thought that those were fake people made up by media, like, commentators that, like, oh, all these teenagers are gonna be jumping from TikTok to run on.
Liz:Like, no, they're not. Nobody's gonna okay. So those aren't fake people. I thought that they were fake people. That's weird.
Liz:It's like it's like the fake people that, like, oh, like, Taylor Swift is making people vote blue. Like, I've assumed that those are, like, fake people, but I could also be wrong on that.
Claire:It's undeniable that it just has such big pull. And people, obviously, were just really But that's beside the blue.
Liz:I'm just talking about fake people now that are made up in, like, the media. But, but that's crazy. I don't I don't even know if it's rebellion. I think that it's more like desperation. But it's like, what what I'm doing is Instagram reels.
Liz:Which is, like, not it's still, like, meta. It's still, like, it's the same. Every everything is the same thing. We're all talking about
Claire:the same thing. Think a lot of people were trying to demonstrate. Like, US government, if you're gonna take this away, like, then what are you gonna do? Ban all of their stuff? And then also, like, are you gonna ban all, in this example, like, Chinese owned apps?
Claire:Like, are you gonna ban Xhin? Are you gonna ban, like I
Jacob:don't know. Yeah. I think Like,
Claire:are you gonna do that other stuff?
Jacob:Yeah. No. I know. I think the biggest obviously, the biggest thing with the TikTok ban is the concern over stolen data and that Yeah. Foreign countries are having access to, our data and the US, obviously, US administration doesn't like that.
Jacob:But I just think that, like you said, it's the same kind of content. Like, I don't know if you guys remember Musically back in the day. Oh, yeah. I wanna say back in the day, like, around
Claire:Oh, yeah.
Jacob:However however long ago.
Claire:Like a decade.
Jacob:Yeah. Like, 10 or so years, I think, around 2015, 2016 when that, like
Claire:I was on Musically?
Jacob:Yeah. That kind of era. I was on Musically as well, and hard to you guys don't wanna see those videos.
Claire:The clip, guys.
Jacob:You guys do not wanna see that. They are long gone.
Liz:I I
Jacob:was They're
Claire:not gone.
Jacob:They're out there. Those look good. No. No. They I I don't care if they're not going.
Jacob:I will convince myself that they are gone. I do not wanna
Claire:Throw your phone in a fire.
Jacob:Yeah. I Burn already. Those are stuck on the iPhone 6. But, but yeah. So, like, Musically has been around.
Jacob:And when that went down, there was still kind of a similar outcry, not obviously to the magnitude that TikTok had, but people were upset that Musically is gone. And that was the same kind of content. You scroll up, the videos come, they they keep coming pretty frequently. Well, however however many you wanna watch, they'll keep coming. And I think that's just kind of a testament to what this is.
Jacob:Like, people are jumping out of their apps, like Yeah. Instagram reels and Facebook's 3rd 3rd whatever and YouTube shorts Yeah. And stuff like that because people would just like this kind of content. The ownership thing, that's unfortunate, but the majority of the population that uses these apps such as TikTok, they don't truly understand, I think, that what the actual concern is because they're like, yeah. Well, my data's being access.
Jacob:Who cares? I still wanna watch TikTok videos. Like, that's that's what the population's saying, whether they understand what's actually going on with the, as you hold their point. But this kind of content has been around forever now.
Claire:Right. Yeah.
Jacob:And it's Yeah. People are gonna do whatever they can to keep getting it.
Liz:Yeah. If I was a psychology expert, I would love to know what the, like, the immense need for doom scrolling, like, is just, like Yeah. Yeah. It's like a dopamine yeah.
Jacob:It's like a dopamine receptor
Liz:Yeah. Is a word that I heard.
Claire:Yeah. And I totally agree with you, Jacob. Like, if, like, this content's working and this format's working and if people can't get it, they're just gonna look other, like, other places no matter kind of what the ownership is on there. And Muscial. Ly is so interesting because TikTok is what Muscial.
Claire:Ly was.
Jacob:Yeah.
Claire:Like, tick ByteDance bought Muscial. Ly, and it, like, merged with TikTok. So people were concerned that Muscial. Ly was going away. But as a fan of the app at the time myself, I remember being like, okay.
Claire:I'm not concerned so much as I am more just, like, confused. Because I'm not concerned because I can see that they're gonna give me TikTok, but I am just confused why they're switching. I think in this case, it's like, k. They're taking away TikTok, so now we are in charge of getting our own next thing. You know?
Claire:Like, there's no other promise kind of being made on the other end of this. We're just taking it away. And people, obviously, regardless if it's about an app or anything, that doesn't sit well with people when it's like, we're taking this away from you. We're not proposing an alternative, like, end of the end of discussion.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. There's not much of a future outlook right now, and I think that's also we mentioned earlier in the episode a little bit of the scare that people might have. I feel like this is a legitimate scare that people are having, not as much like the income side.
Jacob:That that's another scare that people are having, but, like, they just don't know what's next. And, obviously, I know it sounds a little bit different than if people relying on this to make money and stuff like that. But you got people that you got little kids on this app that, like, generally just like watching these videos. They follow their favorite creators. They're giving all its endorsement, all its intention.
Jacob:You got TikTok shop creators that are Yeah. That are relying on endorsements, and they're selling their own products and stuff. And you got people that are just genuine fans. And some of them may be a little bit too young to understand. Some of them may be able to, but I think that's a really good point.
Jacob:People don't know what's next for
Claire:Yeah.
Jacob:TikTok, but also, like, the 30 second, 15 second scrolling video industry. That's it. It's a real thing.
Claire:Yeah. TikTok shop is a really good point. I didn't even think about that.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah.
Claire:Because, yeah, like, I mean, that affects American small businesses as well who use TikTok shop to sell their stuff.
Jacob:Mhmm. Yeah. It's it's very similar to kind of what we're saying. Like, people rely on an income from TikTok, whether it's actually creating the videos, and they're kind of just getting paid to dance or do whatever they do. But TikTok shop is an actual business.
Jacob:It's a very, very successful business at that. People are posting at like, I don't know how much you guys have seen ads on your TikTok, but I'm sure you get those little ones where they got the they have the little corner shop logo in the bottom left of TikTok that you're just like, you can buy the product. And, like, they've come up on my feet plenty of times I've seen, and that's like it's also been like a little bit of a shift in advertisement in a way. Like, digital advertising has gotten a little bit different. I think as a result of TikTok, just because it's been so easy, you can give commission to anybody.
Jacob:You can see, like, 17 year old teenage boys advertising, like, a men's underwear brand. Like, it happens. Like, I've Right. It's it's it's a real thing. I know that that was a very weird first example to come to my mind.
Jacob:I don't know I don't know what was flowing through my mind there, but, like, like, I I may have seen an ad like that, and it's
Claire:So anyone can sponsor Herbie.
Jacob:So don't question what I'm watching, please, because I like I said, I log on the app, like, once a day. Like, that's like it's That's funny. Random. We got everybody in the room everybody in the room's laughing, but to my to my point
Claire:The point is anyone can Anybody can
Jacob:get commission on anything. Yes. Yes. And whether it's whether it's a 17 year old boy that's selling a or it is someone that is dancing at the Hype House reviews. Like, it's a it's a real it's a real thing.
Jacob:People are genuinely concerned. The TikTok shop is a real thing as well, but that also just goes along with the point that I was going to back in the first place. The future's uncertain. Claire, you made a very good point about that. People really don't know what's next, how they're gonna continue their commission, how they're gonna continue to handle their small businesses at that because there's Instagram reels doesn't have an Instagram real shop.
Jacob:YouTube Maybe they're well. Maybe they're well.
Claire:This is that's horrifying, honestly, to think about.
Jacob:Am I
Liz:going crazy? Is there none Instagram shop?
Jacob:Are there oh, there might I think there's an Instagram shop, but, like, it's not like Oh, god. I think there is, but it's not, like, directly associated with the reels Right.
Liz:Yeah. Section of
Jacob:the app and, like or, like, YouTube Shorts has YouTube Shorts, but they just done a YouTube shop. Like, that that kind of thing.
Claire:I'm gonna need to read a book after this.
Liz:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Jacob:I I
Liz:this in the brain
Claire:right of the Yeah. I need yeah. And after that, we were like, we need to go, like, touch grass
Liz:or something. Yeah.
Jacob:I know. I need to go on, like, a mental cleanse after this because this is really
Claire:I'm gonna get a flip phone, actually, tonight.
Jacob:Yeah. I'm gonna yeah. Just go off the grid or something.
Liz:This is Yeah. Does anyone have any final points that they'd like to make about TikTok ban or anything? I feel like we've
Claire:I feel like we've covered.
Liz:Cleaned Yeah.
Claire:Yeah. We covered that.
Jacob:Before a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. We believe any dust.
Claire:We'll see what happens in Yeah. I guess it's less than 90
Liz:days now. But in the meantime, I'll be watching Instagram reels.
Jacob:That's you can go on the wrong side of those too.
Liz:Oh, yeah. Oh my god. Yeah.
Claire:No. Those are wrong. Is there a right side to Instagram?
Jacob:I don't I don't think so. I don't think I
Liz:should be able to do that. Yeah.
Jacob:But
Claire:Well, everyone, thanks for listening.
Liz:Thank you.
Jacob:Good luck
Claire:with your doom scrolling.
Liz:Next week, we talk about dating reality shows.
Jacob:Yeah.
Claire:Quick quick switch.
Liz:Quick quick switch. Yeah. Just like we're just changing something. We're very versatile here. Probably.
Liz:Yes. Well, thanks, guys. Bye.
Jacob:Take care.