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Steve Gladen, Global Small Groups Pastor at Saddleback Church, pulls from his 20+ years of small group ministry experience to encourage and equip listeners to lead more effective small group ministry.
Small group leaders, pastors, and more discussing strategies for growth and community in church groups. The Small Group Network is an international ministry that equips churches to engage in deeper discipleship and community.
00;00;04;05 - 00;00;05;18
Speaker 1
Hello and welcome to Steve.
00;00;05;18 - 00;00;08;19
Speaker 2
Glenn on Small Groups. Steve Glenn, Global Small Groups.
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Speaker 1
Pastor at Saddleback Church pools from his 20 plus years.
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Speaker 2
Of small group ministry experience to encourage and equip listeners to lead.
00;00;15;01 - 00;00;16;14
Speaker 1
More effective small group ministry.
00;00;16;18 - 00;00;36;07
Speaker 2
So sit back learn enjoy Steve Glenn on small groups. Welcome to S.G. Squared. Thank you so much for tuning in. Derrick here along with your other host, the man who's a very initials stand for small groups, sell back churches a global small group Christian for over 20 years. Mr. Steve Glidden.
00;00;36;17 - 00;00;41;19
Speaker 1
Hey, everybody. Good to be with you. And exciting just to tackle another topic.
00;00;41;19 - 00;01;03;25
Speaker 2
Yeah. So in this episode, we are talking about the amazing topic of coaching in regards to small group ministry where specifically can we be talking about five areas that you can re-imagine with coaching and Steve coaching leaders is one of the top questions, as you know, that we get in the small group ministry world and you've been at cell back since 98, I believe.
00;01;04;10 - 00;01;12;12
Speaker 2
Can you give us a brief history of how coaching kind of developed over the years? Years at Saddleback Church? Yeah, I.
00;01;12;12 - 00;01;35;23
Speaker 1
Mean, you know, generally when we talk about coaching it, you think of a couple different camps. One is there's you read a lot about it in the cell movement. The Tea Party movement are, you know, a one to five ratio generally when they're talking about coaching, it's it's a cheering structure, almost like a multi-level marketing plan. You know, you have so many group leaders, then you have a coach or whatever you want to call it.
00;01;35;23 - 00;01;58;14
Speaker 1
And above the coach, you have somebody else and above somebody else, it's somebody else. So that it's almost like an MLM. And then you you have a little twist on that. That comes a little bit out of the G 12 movement and or there's also, you know, what's called circles and it's like, hey, you, you serve in one, you give in another and there's, you know, broad, broad patterns like that.
00;01;58;21 - 00;02;24;14
Speaker 1
There's also another camp that goes a little bit more for the shot talk and they're like going, Hey, we don't do coaching at our church, which in essence when you, when you dig deep into it, they're doing something for the leaders. And bottom line, when we're talking about, you know, Saddleback history, it really plays into this whole theme about reimagining because we've reimagined it in my 24 years, six different times.
00;02;24;14 - 00;02;46;04
Speaker 1
All kind of, you know, we can kind of go through this in a second. But generally when people are saying, you know, they don't coach, they're they're really talking about they're doing something for the leaders. Every church does something for the leaders. And when we're talking about coaching it, it really is the ability to think how are we helping a group leader once we launch it?
00;02;46;06 - 00;03;14;22
Speaker 1
Can it can look a number of different ways. But that's kind of like a broad view of that. And, you know, when you can kind of go through this six different type of point oh version 1.0, 2.0 with that. So let me just kind of jump in 1.0. Let's go back to the very beginning, Derek. You know, that's ongoing that it's a close of 97.
00;03;15;04 - 00;03;38;02
Speaker 1
And I would say we are doing the traditional model, you know, one to five ratio for every five groups. We are trying to get coaches and that's really how we were trying to help our group leaders. Was this giving someone who is, who had been there and had done that and what we found out was it just it wasn't, wasn't working.
00;03;38;02 - 00;04;00;12
Speaker 1
There was there's things that were broken with it that I had tried it before for over ten years at their churches I had been on staff with and I thought, you know, getting, getting to Saddleback, it was like him at Mecca, you know, everything works at Mecca. Because, you know, you know, all the ground is fertile. And so, you know, I thought it would work there.
00;04;01;04 - 00;04;24;12
Speaker 1
But what happened was, is that because of Saddleback, was in a rapid growth time at Saddleback, I couldn't recruit a one to five ratio quick enough. So we had to quickly moved it to a different version of that. We'll call 2.0. And any questions you have on one point? Oh, I mean, are you excited about that one? That was a decent.
00;04;24;12 - 00;04;47;08
Speaker 2
Robust, robust well, I like something you said, and I know you're going to get into it more, but you said sell back re-imagined coaching six times in your career. And I just like how you said it kind of boils down to just do something for leaders, whether it's this big structure you've got or just something simple. Just do something to encourage is that was a nugget you you said that I liked.
00;04;47;28 - 00;04;48;07
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00;04;48;23 - 00;05;11;05
Speaker 1
Yeah, it was it was interesting, too, because it really just led us to, you know, getting into a room in what we did as we went back to, you know, the coaches who our life span of of a coach was generally about six months during that 1.0 version. And we went back to him and said, you know what, you know what?
00;05;11;05 - 00;05;25;09
Speaker 1
Why did you jump out of the game? And the only reason why we did this, I wish we could say it because we were trying to learn. The bottom line was, like I said before, I couldn't recruit enough coaches during the growth seasons of what happened at Saddleback to keep up with the number of group leaders we had.
00;05;25;22 - 00;05;49;28
Speaker 1
And so we had to go back and find out why why were coaches not lasting. And one of the things that we learned from them was they were saying the number one reason it was because they weren't getting calls back. And I know none of you listening to this ever have this problem with your group, but with your coaches when they're talking to you is that, hey, I called these leaders and they didn't get back to me.
00;05;50;25 - 00;06;22;15
Speaker 1
And what it did is it forced us into that reimagining, like, okay, what could it look like in what are some of the things? What did we learn from these focus groups? And, you know, this let me let me rattle off just a number of things is that one of them was is that we we learned a powerful phrase for us at Saddleback, which was not equal care, but strategic care or strategic care, not equal care, depending on how you want to look at it.
00;06;22;15 - 00;06;52;15
Speaker 1
And what that meant was, is that we we noticed that there were in our small groups, we had four different types of phases that are groups are in. One of them was and we call them the four buckets in an internal language we called P1, P2, P3, P4, but the first bucket was just priority care. These were new groups that we needed to engage with immediately and we needed to engage with them.
00;06;52;22 - 00;07;21;08
Speaker 1
You know, with a high frequency in the first, you know, six to eight weeks of their life of the group. And so there is high, high, high engagements, priority care first and the most priority things. And you think about a new group is like a new believer if you don't give, you know, extreme priority care to the new believers in your church, they they can die very quickly because the enemy loves to kill things when it's young.
00;07;21;20 - 00;07;45;10
Speaker 1
I think of Moses as, you know, think of Jesus, you know, when they were young, the enemy was like on this is a flashpoint in history and I got to. Q Yes. Get to kill it very quick. Thank you for going into that Disneyland, you know, analogy. So that was one of our buckets. Another bucket was is we moved from prior Medicare to to more personal care.
00;07;45;10 - 00;08;08;03
Speaker 1
And these are people who were seasoned groups who have been through our leader training. Our first phase of it and it kind of triggered more. They were a seasoned leader, good leader, but not well enough to be left on their their own. The third grouping was more of phone care is what it came up with at the time.
00;08;08;12 - 00;08;32;08
Speaker 1
But it was these were people who had gone through the second phase of our leader training. They are doing an individual health assessment. They're doing a group assessment there. They are really are veteran leaders and then there's another grouping that we had to realize that was out there. And these were the people that needed persistent care. So you you have priority care was one bucket.
00;08;32;08 - 00;08;54;11
Speaker 1
There are new group leaders. We had personal care, which is more of our seasoned group leaders. We had some care, which was our veteran leaders who really are doing their job and in everything we ask of them. And then there's the persistent care, which are really are stubborn leaders out there, stubborn leaders aren't always bad. They could be cautious.
00;08;54;21 - 00;09;13;12
Speaker 1
They could just be scared of knowing what's going on or they've been burned by church systems before. There's a there's a lot of things that can be out there. So they're just not throwaway type of group leaders, but they are people that you got to find out or they're being divisive, you got to get rid of them. But if it's just really more of their they're just cautious.
00;09;13;22 - 00;09;49;26
Speaker 1
That's a whole different story. Now, when you look at those four buckets, one of the important things is that, you know, we will be able to see with them is that the the first two buckets need more proactive care and the back to buckets need more reactive care. And so that that is a huge delineation. So when we had coaches in place, which at this phase we we changed the name because the the the job description was changing so radically that we moved them to two to community leaders.
00;09;50;06 - 00;10;03;28
Speaker 2
Regarding the name change. Steve, is there any little more insight you can give us on to why the name changed from coaches to community leaders or SEALs did did you find that coaches the word had kind of a negative connotation in a sense?
00;10;05;15 - 00;10;35;00
Speaker 1
You know, I know some churches, you know, do have that and they've seen that. Personally, I love the word, you know, both you and I are sports nuts. And so I love the word coach. But it was interesting for some people, it was it was a it was not a healthy word. And which is why when we're saying, hey, if we're going to change it because we change the primary thing, the reason why we changed the name was because this the ball was changing so much.
00;10;35;00 - 00;10;55;03
Speaker 1
We wanted people to see that there was set. There was a different approach that was happening, that it wasn't just one bucket. And we tackle these groups now, it was four buckets and we tackle them very differently. The proactive ones we're wearing, we're reaching out to them. The reactive ones, we just said, Hey, you're a veteran group, you're doing your job.
00;10;55;17 - 00;11;19;23
Speaker 1
Here's here's who your person is. If you need them, engage with us. And, you know, they would generally just leave a prayer on their their voice answering. And the stubborn people, they're stubborn and so they if you know anything about the innovation diffusion curve, you know, they will get the least return on your investment. And so the the stubborn people were to stay on, to stay engaged with them.
00;11;19;23 - 00;11;42;07
Speaker 1
But, you know, it's not we're going to die. And I'm and so when you're gone from you can still stay at one to five. But what we wanted to do is we found out we could expand it and we went to one to 25. And so you saw that not only was the four bucket approach changing, but what we were asking the new community leaders to do was changing them.
00;11;42;07 - 00;12;13;00
Speaker 1
That was spend most of your time caring for your groups and that is spend you know, the majority of your time 80, 90% on the two proactive buckets and spend minimal time on the, on the reactive buckets and disengaging with them. And so it was, you know, it was an exciting thing to have the calls, but it also went into a couple of different phases in the SEALs.
00;12;13;09 - 00;12;20;20
Speaker 1
We started out paying them and then version three is when we started to not pay them no more.
00;12;20;20 - 00;12;21;04
Speaker 2
No.
00;12;22;08 - 00;12;22;18
Speaker 1
No.
00;12;24;26 - 00;12;44;20
Speaker 2
So that's amazing. Let's let's talk a little bit more about that transition because that had to be I mean, kind of monumental. You go from a season of paying your coaches or your community leaders to care for these small group, these small group leaders. And now you're saying no more. No. How did they respond and what happened after that?
00;12;46;16 - 00;13;07;20
Speaker 1
Well, I mean, part of it, you have to you always have to look to the why and so there's a couple thing. Everything's got pros and cons. And actually, when I'm coaching churches, I would still going back, I would go to paying them we paid them for 10 hours and we did it for a couple of different reasons. One is Budgetarily.
00;13;07;20 - 00;13;36;25
Speaker 1
We can hire another small group pastor. And when you when you look at the pragmatics of what you pay them, a full time employee in benefits and everything, I could get eight community leaders to one full time pastor pastor that was over small group. So there was a budgetary restraint that was driven on it. Another thing that was a practical thing was the reason why we did that was so that we could get the culture to change a little bit quicker.
00;13;36;25 - 00;13;57;12
Speaker 1
We had more people who were engaged higher with that. So it was it wasn't necessarily a bad thing. But I will tell you, it's not scalable. And when I tell it, when churches want to go into something like this, it is something that you just got to go into. It opened. I think this scales, but not as big as you'd like.
00;13;57;12 - 00;14;17;18
Speaker 1
And the problem was, is that, you know, at one point time we had 54 paid community leaders in our community, and it just wasn't something we could just say, hey, for every 25 groups where we're paying a ten hour person. And so there came a break in it. So there's a budgetary hit that forced just to make that decision.
00;14;18;18 - 00;14;40;29
Speaker 1
And then the other thing that was the, the hit was obviously the budgetary was the scalable piece. But the other thing we learned is that as pure as people are and Derrick, people discern as pure as meat, you and me, you know, out there. But but what happened was, is that they would get into that ten hour paid position for all the right reasons.
00;14;41;11 - 00;15;08;10
Speaker 1
But they got very used to that little bit of extra dough, as you say. And it was hard for them to walk away from it. So they get in for the right reasons, but they wouldn't get out of it for the right reasons. And so what happened was, is that we realize that you know, your accountability to them needs to see justice high because the purity of what got them in sometimes wasn't as pure of getting out.
00;15;08;10 - 00;15;35;23
Speaker 1
So that was a little bit of a thing, and it just really wasn't scalable. And so we ramped up our retreats knowing that we were going to go into this next phase. And really in version 3.0, not a whole lot changed from that. That whole aspect of how we were we were you know, in using community leaders. And in in my book, Small Groups with Purpose Chapter 14, I go into it in great detail.
00;15;35;23 - 00;15;57;25
Speaker 1
So if you go into small groups with purpose, chapter 14 you can kind of see version two and you see version three but what happened was just like what you said in your alluded to is, you know, we went volunteer and to the cool thing is that there were about two thirds of the community leaders stayed on board.
00;15;58;18 - 00;16;20;28
Speaker 1
They go, hey, it's a little bit of an adjustment, but, you know, we'll stay on board. There was about a third that said, you know, you're from Satan and we're just we're jumping out of this. But what we did is we we expanded, you know, to the volunteers. We had to work on recruiting a lot better. And with that.
00;16;20;28 - 00;16;41;10
Speaker 1
But it was it's enough of a change that I would actually give it its own own version of how we had to reimagine it because it was scary, because you were telling people, hey, at such and such a date, we're not paying you anymore. And it was just it was just not scalable. And it just wasn't like being a good steward of what the church was talking about.
00;16;41;21 - 00;17;07;07
Speaker 1
So the version three pretty much the same. But it's, you know, we're we're we're it was a tectonic shift because it expanded us to different rooms where, you know, today we have roughly about 280 community leaders. And so you see there that you know, it's a it just wouldn't be financially doable.
00;17;07;18 - 00;17;24;09
Speaker 2
So then we've got, I think, version 4.0 starting around 2014 and this is where you guys introduced this Starbucks green apron saying this is very interesting. Tell us more about the Starbucks apron piece.
00;17;26;06 - 00;17;46;04
Speaker 1
Yeah it was a it was a wild piece of it. You know I've forgotten version three. One of the things that we did was we also changed the span of care from one to 25. As we went volunteer, we said whatever you could do. So that was just one other weather piece for that green apron. Let me let me jump into that.
00;17;46;17 - 00;18;12;27
Speaker 1
Yeah. One of the things that in version 4.0 that we started to notice with our groups is that with our community leaders is that they weren't sure exactly what to do. And so what they did, what we discovered was, is that they were trying to do they were trying to do what we wanted them to do. And because which.
00;18;12;27 - 00;18;13;17
Speaker 2
Is smart.
00;18;13;17 - 00;18;45;27
Speaker 1
Mice. Yes, which is smart. Which do. But one of the things that's my strength is I know what to do intuitively. But one of my weaknesses is there's I think everybody knows what to do intuitively and that that can somehow that can many times hurt you. And so what we discovered was is that most of our group leaders were we're getting a little not burned by our community leaders, but they're just feeling like, hey, they're always hammering us for for content and stuff.
00;18;45;27 - 00;19;08;23
Speaker 1
And how many is on the roster and the Juju Leader training one. Did you do leader training? Do you did you complete your new host training have you done the health assessment? Have you done the group assessment? And what we discovered was is that our community leaders would would gravitate towards doing what we what we wanted them to do without building a friendship.
00;19;08;23 - 00;19;29;04
Speaker 1
So we created this little our version of the Starbucks Green Apron booklet, which if you didn't know what that was, when Starbucks were first starting out in the green apron that they would always wear, there was a little pocket that they would have. And there was a a green apron booklet that they would have in there. And it's kind of like a quick cheat sheet on making a lot of the drinks.
00;19;29;04 - 00;19;50;08
Speaker 1
And I know they've moved away from that, but it was still a great concept to have in some that we picked up on. And so we created a a kind of a cheat sheet of what what their role was in it. It would boil down to three words How do you become their friend? How do you help them be a great leader and how do you coach them for the future of what we want them to do?
00;19;50;24 - 00;20;13;20
Speaker 1
And in each one of these words, friend, leader and coach was an acrostic because that's what Saddleback does. And so in the friend part we had here six ways that you can become their friend, like the F was, you know, find common ground. And then we explain what finding common ground meant and why that was so important. And then we'd give them some ideas on how to find common ground.
00;20;14;15 - 00;20;38;04
Speaker 1
And then in each one of those letters was pretty much the same thing. But it was a it was a handy little booklet that would kind of helped usher us into the next zone of saying, hey, there's got to be some some simple pathways and a couple other things that we learned in this is teaching them the difference between hard data and soft data and hard data.
00;20;38;04 - 00;21;05;03
Speaker 1
Is basically the information we want. And that's what they went towards all the time. They would go after like Derek, if I was your group leader, I'd go to the church wants me to do this. I want to, I want to I want to please the church. And so this is what I'm going to go for. And I'm going to ask you for all this hard data that that the church wants and what we had to do was we had to do a paradigm shift in this particular version saying we want you to go after soft data.
00;21;05;10 - 00;21;26;20
Speaker 1
And soft data is the data that's important to you. And basically, we came up with them in, you know, discovering soft data is going through. Again, another acrostic called speak, and that is, you know, find out, you know, what's their story and just discover who they are. So I'd want to find out. Derrick, what's your story? How did you find Christ?
00;21;26;20 - 00;21;44;28
Speaker 1
How did you meet Julie? You know, you tell me about your kid that you have and you tell me about as and you'd be all this information you'd share and stuff like that. So I'd want to find out your story. The the key was what's what are you passionate in? And, you know, he said, hey, dude, you're passionate about college football.
00;21;45;02 - 00;21;46;16
Speaker 1
You pick a sucky team. But hey.
00;21;46;16 - 00;21;52;10
Speaker 2
You know how to do with oh.
00;21;52;10 - 00;22;11;22
Speaker 1
I like that. But, you know, we could digress on that for ever today. I want to find out what you're passionate about and see if there's any common ground in there. And then I want to find out how can I how can I encourage you? I mean, that's spot, right? SPV I do. I encourage you with all that.
00;22;11;22 - 00;22;34;09
Speaker 1
They don't want to let's see, you know, what abilities do you have? And one of them we discovered is that you and technology and communication was huge, that you're you have a natural ability with that. And how can you use that for the kingdom work and then the the K is just what are you knowledgeable on that I'm not knowledgeable on so I can learn from you.
00;22;34;09 - 00;23;05;21
Speaker 1
But there's a lot that that is in that hard and soft data learning that that was there in this particular version. And then just another piece that was really tectonic for us in this one was and you know, one of the things that I always heard from my staff was hey, you know, when you call leaders, it triggers or you know, seal was always getting triggered.
00;23;05;21 - 00;23;31;09
Speaker 1
You know, if if we dip down below into the level they're on. And what I learned from Cheryl Bok Elder, who used to be the the CEO Popeye's Chicken, who did a great job at turning that franchise around. But she she talked to me about this thing called skip level. And it was really from one of our presidents used to always say trust but verify.
00;23;31;20 - 00;23;59;16
Speaker 1
And that's what it was. But when you skip leveled, what would she learned is that when she would go to a store, she would learn one set of data from store managers. She had learned another set of data from store customers and during this particular version, we did we helped the culture get comfortable with skip leveling that if I even I who I am, you know, three levels removed from a group leader.
00;23;59;22 - 00;24;28;19
Speaker 1
But if I called a group leader, the community leader or the small group pastor or the campus pastor connections pastor on that staff, they wouldn't get triggered by it because they know I am their best friend. I'm not playing the detective to get their but I am going to be able to help them out. So it was a wild imagining reimagining of of what we were doing in in the in the coaching arena.
00;24;28;19 - 00;24;38;24
Speaker 1
So it it was a wild time. I would just say that because it was should have been tectonic, probably two versions ago. But, you know, we're slow.
00;24;38;24 - 00;25;00;05
Speaker 2
To the game. Yeah. On the skip leveling, I think the one of the keys with that working in a healthy way is you know, like you for example Steve as a leader obviously communicating like you did to the whole team that, hey, we're going to do this and this is for the greater good and if you hear me skip leveling, I'm not trying to undermine your authority.
00;25;00;19 - 00;25;06;14
Speaker 2
I'm back in you up and I'm trying to give better customer service right yeah.
00;25;06;21 - 00;25;28;10
Speaker 1
And it's so, so true. And and part of it, too, is the way I learn. I learn experientially. So for me to get around with a focus group, with a group of group leaders and talk with them or anything else, I love what you said there. It was for the betterment of all of us. Nobody does anything perfectly.
00;25;28;10 - 00;25;43;27
Speaker 1
There's some things I bring to the table that's good. There's some things that they bring to the table that's good. And sometimes this communication doesn't get relayed. So it can sometimes feel like, hey, you don't trust me. But part of it is it's it's for my betterment. If for nothing else.
00;25;43;27 - 00;25;57;14
Speaker 2
So so then I think around 20, 17 is when you guys kind of go to version 5.0 and you introduce a concept called the Village Concept. Tell us a little bit about this version.
00;25;58;22 - 00;26;22;00
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. So this was we are starting to discover that there were more voices into our group leaders than we realize. And this was in when we were reimagine that this was really something that was revolutionary for us, almost like the four buckets were. I mean, I talked to a lot of group people and they're very kind and generous and say, hey, thank you.
00;26;22;00 - 00;26;50;06
Speaker 1
When you wrote that in small groups with purpose about that, it helped us, you know, realize it's not about, it's about strategic care, it's not about equal care. And, and so but this one was just as revolutionary. And I would really encourage you in it in another book I wrote called Planning Small Groups with Purpose. You can tell I've gotten this question before on page one 43, there's a picture of our village and we'll we'll talk about it more in the other part of the show, but you'll get a visual for it.
00;26;50;24 - 00;27;22;03
Speaker 1
But what we realized is that when we were talking to group leaders, there were ever village people. And this really came up with this. A village concept was, you know, we believe at Saddleback, you know, the Bible written on a family system and anybody who raises kids, Derek, is you're raising as Ryan as we're raising Erica and Ethan is that it takes a village to raise your kid and part of what you realize is that grandparents play a huge role.
00;27;22;27 - 00;27;52;28
Speaker 1
Cousins play a huge role. There's many things that play a huge role. If your kids are into any type of athletics or sports, coaches play a huge role. And what we realized is that in everyday life that other people play into how our kid is raised, both positively and negatively. And one of the things that we are picking up is that there were other voices into our group leaders that were not in alignment with where we were going.
00;27;52;28 - 00;28;17;14
Speaker 1
And so part of what we realized is that we had to identify all the people in the village. And like I said, we'll go through this a little bit deeper in another part of the show. But it is also that we had to get alignment and we had to get everybody on the same page. And it's kind of like, again, in parenting, if mom and dad are saying different things in the parenting structure, the kid gets messed up.
00;28;17;21 - 00;28;34;28
Speaker 1
And if the village in the same concept of people are seeing different things, it gets messed up. And so I would say version five was just a tectonic look, feel, and everything that happened inside our community leaders in what was going.
00;28;34;28 - 00;28;40;08
Speaker 2
On did Hillary have anything to do with you introducing the village concept.
00;28;42;24 - 00;28;48;12
Speaker 1
You know, Hillary brought up some great things, but we stuck a little bit more of Jesus on this one.
00;28;48;12 - 00;29;09;16
Speaker 2
So you're referring to her. Her famous comment about it takes a village, right? Yeah. For those who don't know what I'm talking about. Okay, move it on to version is six point. Oh, I think this began in 2021 is where you you guys started to discover different types of community leaders. So it wasn't just, hey, we've got community community leaders now.
00;29;09;16 - 00;29;14;11
Speaker 2
It's you realize there's different buckets, if that's a word of community leaders. Tell us more about that.
00;29;16;05 - 00;29;37;17
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, one of the things that we just realized most recently is that our community communities, we're all at a different stage in the game is really what it was about. It's not that, you know, in one of the versions we started, you know, that focused more on the ratios, you know, where they take in 25 groups or they take in two groups.
00;29;37;17 - 00;30;00;22
Speaker 1
It was, it was really up to them what they were going to take. But what we've noticed more is that as we're looking over the year, 280 community leaders that we have is that they are all at a different stage of the game and we have a whole pipeline where we want to take a new host, we want to turn them into a leader.
00;30;01;10 - 00;30;27;06
Speaker 1
We hopefully that those leaders are passionate about small group ministry, that they would want to become a community leader and help the people you know, before, I mean, just like they got help from the people before them, they want to help the people after them and then really even send our community leaders. One of the things that we started notice with baby boomers, especially aging out, is there was a whole never another level in our pipeline that we weren't tapping into.
00;30;27;06 - 00;30;46;12
Speaker 1
And that is there are some community leaders that really are ministers or pastors or whatever term you want to give it to them. And so what that led us to kind of really in the pandemic, we were picking this up a little bit at some took early retirement and said, hey, I want to be in the game, I've got this.
00;30;46;12 - 00;31;09;27
Speaker 1
And, you know, different things came up. But it really helped us in in helping the new community leaders have a course. So we actually finished up one course that is if you're new as a community leader, here's a here's a conversation course that will just help get you some fundamentals where we're producing another course that's a little bit more hardcore.
00;31;09;27 - 00;31;32;19
Speaker 1
It's got a lot more details, too. It's more like a classroom setting forum. So there's a development pipeline for the courses that we have. If you're a new CEO, we also learned that just like people learn in different chunks, we've created five training modules for our community leaders that that just help them in the day to day pieces.
00;31;32;19 - 00;32;02;17
Speaker 1
And we just threw out all of our community leaders. We get what a lot of the common bumps you you discover out the gate and what do they need to learn the most of. And so we've got five modules that are right there. And then part of what we're doing is realizing that we're creating this training tracks. It's moving well beyond the one shot meets all with the the the CEO guidebook that was the Starbucks green apron thing that we ripped off.
00;32;02;17 - 00;32;28;19
Speaker 1
But it was, you know, just taking taking that to a new level. And it's kind of where we are. And and when you look at reimagining, every time we've reimagined, we've kept the good and we've punted the bad. And so it's it's been a constant learning over the last 24 years. But it's a it's a little snapshot of the history and why we did some things and why we didn't do others.
00;32;28;19 - 00;32;31;25
Speaker 1
So it was a pretty helpful thing.
00;32;31;28 - 00;32;46;15
Speaker 2
That was an amazing nutshell of the history of coaching at Saddleback. Steve you'd referenced one or two times the pocket guide you guys use. Is it okay for me to tell listeners a sneaky way they can get that.
00;32;48;10 - 00;33;03;02
Speaker 1
Yeah, we're all about sneaky and you can actually be over for if you want. So let's just let's just not tell the people who sell the resource what we're doing because they really get angry when I tell them, Oh, here, here's a here's a sneaky way to do it. But they're.
00;33;03;02 - 00;33;40;00
Speaker 2
Telling. Yeah, yeah. So for all of you listeners of ESG squared, this is again the reward of listening to this show every month. So if you go to Saddleback Income, that's Saddleback NORTHCOM then click Connect, you'll see the different options at the top, click Connect, scroll down and click small groups. Once you're in the small group page, scroll down a little bit more and click your ministry objectives And guess what's going to pop up a PDF of the Community Leader Pocket Guide.
00;33;40;12 - 00;33;52;04
Speaker 2
You can literally save as download it to your desktop and you've got that pocket guide to resource. You use it how you want, take, pick and choose from it. But it's a cool little tool.
00;33;54;17 - 00;34;04;06
Speaker 1
Well, I would say that wasn't sneaky. That was a painful way to do it. Maybe in the show notes we can do a shortcut link that will serve up that yes.
00;34;04;06 - 00;34;08;09
Speaker 2
Check the notes for that as well. Okay. Now we're going.
00;34;08;24 - 00;34;15;11
Speaker 1
Yeah, that was like a to follow this breadcrumb over to here, then, you know, dissect it and you know, put it, you know, this look.
00;34;15;22 - 00;34;16;28
Speaker 2
I was give it a sneak. You.
00;34;17;14 - 00;34;24;13
Speaker 1
You're never serving a you or service. I think there's even a more short project, but Derek will give you the superficial.
00;34;24;13 - 00;34;49;22
Speaker 2
Geeking out that I figured out that way to get it for free. Okay. So now we're going to jump in to five areas to remember imagine coaching five areas. You're going to want to take notes on this because this is great stuff. Steve's pulling from over 24 years of experience in coaching at center back. So what do we got for number one, Steve Yeah.
00;34;50;01 - 00;35;14;09
Speaker 1
So as you're going through these, these areas to reimagine, I would just encourage you always to be thinking sometimes you're when you reimagine something with a cheerleader, training, or whether it's your coaching or whatever aspect it is of your small group ministry, you know, it doesn't have to be a tectonic shift sometimes. It's just, you know, tuning it up in the ears, twisting, turning the dials just a little bit.
00;35;14;24 - 00;35;38;13
Speaker 1
But sometimes it is a sometimes it's a major thing. But I would encourage you in these five areas to be thinking through, you know, is this an area that we have to reimagine? And these were some of the the big the big tectonic shifts of what we saw that needed to be reimagined. So anyways, oh, that is a precursor to what we're talking about.
00;35;38;13 - 00;36;01;16
Speaker 1
But the first one is, is just the ethos. And for some of you, this is your environment. This is the environment that the SEALs live in. And the ethos is, you know, you've got to understand that in the the ethos, in the environment of how you operate, it's a small group ministry. It really needs to be a family system.
00;36;02;00 - 00;36;25;12
Speaker 1
And in a family system that everyone understands the roles that they're playing, but they also understand that we're we're in it for the betterment of each other, realizing that as a family, we're better together. And obviously in this analogy, the younger the child is, the more important there's parents in their lives, that there's adult role models that are that are kicking in.
00;36;25;28 - 00;36;52;13
Speaker 1
But you've got to understand that you know, they're there. It's more than saying and there's not a church on the planet doesn't hey, we're not a family system. But when you look at the structure and you look how things are communicated, it tends to get communicated very hierarchical. And so I would say in in your own ethos that you're pulling these communities leaders in is does it does the family system really need to be looked at?
00;36;52;26 - 00;37;29;17
Speaker 1
And then you got to ask, how's the family if you do have a family system is like how is the family? How are you doing as an individual? You know, as a point person for Saddleback Church globally, you know, how how am I doing in my own? And basically this gets into social care. But, you know, the speed of the leader, the speed of your small group ministry and you got to see get a kind of look at, you know, in the family system, how am I doing, how are my coaches or what we call community leaders doing spiritually and house a group leader?
00;37;29;28 - 00;37;54;16
Speaker 1
And so often in ministry, I can't tell you in the news we've seen train wreck after train wreck because always in the family, it's a slow erosion. It's never a family going off track very quickly. And I just encourage you to look at you know, how's the family? If you've got a family system, ask yourself the question, how's the family doing in this particular one?
00;37;54;29 - 00;38;14;22
Speaker 1
And I guess the third thing I would say is, you know, do you in your family, do you know what you're producing in that? That's just going to be vital because the great thing is, is that all of our community leaders, all of our group leaders, they'll know the direction we're going. They'll know the end in mind of what we're trying to produce.
00;38;15;03 - 00;38;26;00
Speaker 1
In all three of those things kind of wrap up into that ethos of saying, you know, what's happening and how or how how is this environment really going on.
00;38;26;00 - 00;38;41;23
Speaker 2
Regarding the ethos in the family system? Steve, when you say, do you know what you're producing and you mentioned the end in mind, give us a little bit more on that. You're talking about what kind of you know, in a perfect scenario, what your perfect disciple looks like, right? As far as.
00;38;41;23 - 00;38;59;01
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. Yeah. So it's just to say, yeah, the I mean, the analogy that we use all the time is if I'm got get invited to my house and I just give you the city, it's not going to help you. You're going to say, give me the address. And so often our group leaders don't know the address, so they don't know what success is.
00;38;59;11 - 00;39;27;06
Speaker 1
And the same thing sometimes our community leaders don't know what success is, but again, they coach off what is the end in mind. So if you're having coaches or community leaders involved in your church, you have to understand that if they don't know what they're coaching to, then they they won't be able to be successful. And it creates a bad ethos inside your family system.
00;39;27;06 - 00;39;45;05
Speaker 1
The same way in a family is if my kids don't know the the guidelines or what we're trying to do in our family system, what happens is, is then they just go, I don't know. So I'm just going to try this thing. And, you know, if it's good, it's good. But if it's bad, then they get in trouble.
00;39;45;05 - 00;40;04;17
Speaker 1
And there's a lot of needless things that could be hammered out in the ethos. If you can start to say, hey, let's get the ground rules straight. And if we know the ground rules and we know what we're trying to produce in a disciple, then that's a that's a big foundational piece for your coaches that you may not have thought of.
00;40;04;17 - 00;40;10;11
Speaker 1
And that you may need to go back and say, Guy, I got to reimagine how this could look a lot better.
00;40;10;19 - 00;40;17;08
Speaker 2
We're talking about the five areas to reimagine in coaching. That was number one, the ethos. What you got for number two.
00;40;17;18 - 00;40;48;04
Speaker 1
You yeah. This is, you know, the reason you're coaching. You've got to figure out not only do I know what I'm coaching to, but I get to know why this is, you know, this is why you have community leadership, this is why you have coaches. And so you know what I like to call it directive disciple making. And this is where you've got to give management and you've got to give guidance all the time.
00;40;48;14 - 00;41;18;25
Speaker 1
You see, the reason you have coaches in your in your small group ministry is they help course adjust they they help. I mean, I think of Nasser when Nasser Lance launches a rocket and you can do you can Google this or put it on your search engine and find out but they are always readjusting the trajectory of the rocket they're launching all the time because there's so many variables that are happening.
00;41;19;07 - 00;41;42;02
Speaker 1
And in the same way you're trying to help your schools disciple, your group's turning you know, I make disciple making happen, but part of what you're helping you got to do to the team coaches, your coaches got to do your group leaders is you got to help them understand directive disciple making it's like the Tom Landry quote from the Dallas Cowboys.
00;41;42;02 - 00;41;57;16
Speaker 1
He made infamous way back when when he won so many Super Bowls in his day in this sea goes my job is to help football players do the things they don't want to do so they can be the stars that they want to be on the field. And then in the same.
00;41;57;16 - 00;41;59;28
Speaker 2
Way they're great. Jim Harbaugh quote You get to.
00;42;02;07 - 00;42;12;10
Speaker 1
Know Michigan never had any good quotes that that I'm remembering right now. So thank you for dredging that up. Thank you. And there's a whole big story of.
00;42;12;10 - 00;42;14;24
Speaker 2
One on how to win a championship or something.
00;42;16;13 - 00;42;44;12
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. It's called once every ten years. Once every ten years is is new books for they're all of our listeners. You know, our zaniness will get there. But in the same way, the part of the reason that you have your coaching, I would say ethos that you've developed around is because you're you want to help group leaders be the the best group leader that they can be.
00;42;44;12 - 00;43;11;19
Speaker 1
You got to help them do the things they would naturally do. So they can be the group leader they always dreamed they wanted to be And so with that, again, it comes back to to knowing what the baseline is. You got to know what your healthy metrics are that you're going to have. And you've got to be able to know what kind, of course, corrections are in your arsenal to be able to give to the host.
00;43;12;06 - 00;43;27;11
Speaker 2
Good stuff. That is No. Two of the five areas to reimagine coaching so far. We've got the ethos. We've got the reason in coming in at number three, we've got the process, and this is about finding community leaders. Tell us more about how how do we find them?
00;43;27;11 - 00;43;50;03
Speaker 1
Steve Yeah, I think sometimes what you've got to re-imagine is, you know, what is your process? Or you can go, you know, what is your pipeline with that? And you know, we're always telling, you know, the people that are working on the small group ministry, our best community leaders are the veteran group leaders that are sitting out there.
00;43;50;03 - 00;44;12;05
Speaker 1
They would be our P three bucket or they'd be the, you know, the phone care, the people that are doing what we've done, they've engaged our metrics, they've engaged the health assessment, they've engaged the group health assessment. And so the process is you got to go. You know, there there's one aspect of the process you get to know who are the likely pool of people.
00;44;12;05 - 00;44;33;07
Speaker 1
People are always asking me, you know, hey, I know I need these people. Where do I find I mean, in some regards, the the best you know, in business, they have this old additive that they need a better one than this one. But they say that the best shoe salesman is not going to make the best shoe manager because they're really good at selling.
00;44;33;07 - 00;45;07;02
Speaker 1
And so but you need a pool to work from. And so part of your veteran group leaders that you have out there, they should be a great pool of people that could possibly be those ones, those those coaches that play into there. But your process it kind of filters those out. There's also when you when you're getting into this process is you got to understand you're looking for two key ingredients in someone who is going to be, for us, a community leader for your church, maybe a coach or whatever you call them that are helping your group leaders.
00;45;07;02 - 00;45;33;02
Speaker 1
But there's two main ingredients you got to look at. You got to look at competency. Do they know what they're doing? But then you also got to look at capacity. Do they have the time to dedicate to it? I've talked to a lot of young couples. That would be great coaches for us. And what happens is, is that they've got the competency but they don't have the capacity because they've got a bunch of young kids that are involved in a bunch of different sports.
00;45;33;16 - 00;45;59;22
Speaker 1
So your process has to not only look at who your prime candidates, but then you've got to look at, you know, is the competency there, is the capacity there. Then I would say there's two other buckets you can dig into that give you the ability to be able to find new people that may not be in your direct pipeline, but one of them is doing community leader retreats.
00;46;00;26 - 00;46;23;07
Speaker 1
And one of the things that we do is both for group leaders and for community leaders, we're always doing retreats. And once a year when we doing these retreats, there is always an aspect of recruitment. So we're doing a group leader, you know, retreat We're always trying to say, you know, could there be potential community leaders in there?
00;46;23;19 - 00;46;44;12
Speaker 1
But also when we do a community retreat, we're inviting our existing community leaders to always be able to say, bring someone who's a potential, bring somebody who might be a person that you can be there. So there's always a recruitment component that you have inside your retreat to try and build that culture.
00;46;45;20 - 00;47;10;02
Speaker 2
I loved what you said about competency and capacity. I don't think that can be understated because if you've been in the ministry world long enough, you know, we're always looking for new leaders. We're always recruiting and you'll often see some successful young whatever, a sharp looking leader. Right. And the temptation is to go after them and first and recruit them.
00;47;10;02 - 00;47;31;03
Speaker 2
But if they might have the the competency. But if they don't have the capacity, Steve, like you're saying, let's say, for example, of coaching, you recruit a bunch of people that say, yeah, I'll do it and they look sharp. They sound sharp, but they really don't have the capacity that's going to get ugly later on when there's no coaching happening.
00;47;31;03 - 00;47;38;13
Speaker 2
Right. So. Great point. Loved that. That was number three. The process. We're going to jump to number four.
00;47;39;00 - 00;48;06;02
Speaker 1
The pathway well, let me let me let me you know, because I appreciate what you brought about the compensation capacity because obviously when we're in doing retreats, we're always looking towards that. But one other thing, just as I was, I didn't want to forget to say it was, is that we have an introductory course to also four potential SEALs to listen to.
00;48;06;09 - 00;48;37;26
Speaker 1
And this is this sits on our website that anybody who who may be interested in it, you kind of make it a little bit more broad. You're able to say, hey, here's some some opportunities for you that are coming maybe through our three or one class when people are look, translate, hey, based on my shape, what what could be a possibility And this is what our first course to our community leaders also plays a huge, huge role in being an introductory course for us.
00;48;37;26 - 00;49;08;00
Speaker 1
So as we as you re-imagine processes, you know, it's everything like we said, you know, it's got to have a pathway that might give you a pool. You've got to be able to see that, you know, the composite is and that and the capacities that they have, but also retreats and some introductory course that you have can can kind of whet the appetite for people who may be coming through a different vein inside your small group ministry and then also through your church.
00;49;08;00 - 00;49;22;13
Speaker 1
There's other pockets of your church that may have a spiritual gift assessment that, you know, they can refer to them saying, hey, you meet these qualifications, you might be a great community leader and then go, I don't even know what that is or a great coach. And they all know that is.
00;49;22;19 - 00;49;34;18
Speaker 2
Very well said. So on no, for the pathway, give us a breakdown of what Saddleback Pathway looks like when we're talking about reimagining coaching.
00;49;36;00 - 00;50;03;12
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. So there's the processes that you kind of help you find community leaders, but then once you've got them, then you've got to know, okay, hey, what is our pathway for developing them? And this is where I was talking, you know, in, you know, the different history and the versions of reimagining coaching happened at Saddleback Church. But then you have different people that have, you know, different capacities in different competencies.
00;50;03;25 - 00;50;26;15
Speaker 1
And so how are you challenging them accordingly? And so so for part of us is there is the process that if we see a host, you know, we've got a pathway for a coach to engage them on that in general. Big, big, big process. We want them to become their friend. We want them to become helping them become a leader.
00;50;26;15 - 00;50;45;12
Speaker 1
And then we want to coach them for what the future piece is for them. And Derek gave you the the quick, you know, link of how to get there in the show notes. But you're also, you know, at the other side of it, you're starting to also look like, you know, am I giving them the appropriate challenge of where where they're they're going to?
00;50;45;24 - 00;51;34;04
Speaker 1
And so, you know, the the pastors can kind of give some guidance of, you know, how they're what kind of development do the they need and what should they recommend to them. But then also having some of the resources there outside the personal side. But for us, it's our our our module of our training modules. They discussed earlier in our versions the courses that we have, the retreats that we give, they all play a big role in developing the community leader because right now we're sitting at a time in history where so many people are not only aging out, but they're also retiring early and people don't give to need.
00;51;34;04 - 00;51;57;03
Speaker 1
So we need to say, hey, I need extra coaches for this. But what they do give is to vision. And this is why it's so important that in your pathway there's enough vision casting to get them excited to be going on this way. And I understand that, you know, when you reimagined process and you re-imagine pathway, they both play a a vital role.
00;51;57;12 - 00;52;22;04
Speaker 1
There is a lot of overlap on all of that. But the thing is, is that you've got to have a process that kind of pulls them in. So we're looking at the process as pulling in, you know, the, the coaches into your system. The pathway is what is going to be developing them, developing them in their competencies to do the role you want them to do.
00;52;22;13 - 00;52;48;22
Speaker 1
But also at the same time is you know, judging their capacities because right now we have three full time community leaders who are actually soon to be licensed as ministers because, you know, they're doing the job of a pastor and they're just doing it without pay. And so it's our it's our next gen of volunteer pastors that are just rocking it.
00;52;48;22 - 00;53;11;10
Speaker 1
They don't need more money. They've had the success. What they're looking for is significance and the significance they can give to the kingdom. Because I'll tell you this from firsthand, the older I get, the less focused I am on things. And the more and more I'm focused on is, you know, what's Jesus going to say when I get to the other side?
00;53;11;10 - 00;53;36;24
Speaker 1
So I would encourage you. I know there's a subtle difference in Derrick, you know, our outline that we're talking through. We can go ahead and put that in the show notes, too, so people can follow along because it's really important to understand the difference of these areas of reimagining. When we're talking about reimagining, eating, you know, the ethos to reimagine eating, the reason to reimagine and in the process to reimagining the pathway.
00;53;36;24 - 00;53;40;26
Speaker 1
So subtle but very important.
00;53;40;26 - 00;54;00;17
Speaker 2
One quick question for you on the pathway for somebody listening who maybe is just starting out in groups as a small group point person, or maybe they don't even have a coaching structure, but they want to get it going when it comes to the pathway, you know, some of the stuff sounds pretty high level, you know, building a course, doing retreats.
00;54;01;00 - 00;54;08;15
Speaker 2
What would you say is just the simplest, most important thing for the pathway that a new person starting coaching could do?
00;54;11;08 - 00;54;45;13
Speaker 1
Simple, be a friend, just start to recruit people that that are that you have a friendship with that could help you in just really just helping them to say, hey, could you could you just help, you know, check in with our group leaders in this, find out how they're doing in this go purely friendship based. You can build the other stuff later on or, you know, find churches that are already doing it and just, you know, that's what I love about the network all the time when I'm reading an article going, oh, my gosh, this is awesome.
00;54;45;13 - 00;55;08;15
Speaker 1
I'm going to rip off that because the the the competency pieces, you can kind of snake from other churches because, you know, there's great churches that have done it. And, you know, we've stumbled on to a few things, but the ability to build relationship with people on the you can do that. And so it all starts with relationship and decision casting.
00;55;08;15 - 00;55;34;11
Speaker 1
Saying, Hey, would you come alongside me? And, you know, if you. Bottom line is if you got 15 groups or under you can navigate them without you don't need a coaching layer you are going to need the next thing we're talking about is who's giving the influences you know this next section but the bottom line is once you're 15, you just need a couple of people that can help you and it is check in with them and find out.
00;55;34;18 - 00;55;49;15
Speaker 1
Find out what the group leaders are needing. They're going to force you based on their needs to force you to kind of get your punch list of what you've got to develop. And so when you're doing that, because some say, Hey, I may need curriculum, you go, Okay, I've got to go find out curriculum and stuff like that.
00;55;50;01 - 00;55;56;11
Speaker 1
The main thing is a lot of the things you need are already created. The only you can do the relational.
00;55;56;11 - 00;56;21;03
Speaker 2
So I said, Yeah, in my short time as a community leader itself, I found I think I oversaw like 25 small groups or hosts. And the greatest thing I think I offered these people wasn't that I had all the answers. It was just that I was, I was available to check in on a monthly and I think that meant so much to some of them because in this crazy world we're living in, we're going away from personal customer service, right?
00;56;21;03 - 00;56;45;20
Speaker 2
Everything's automated digital like Verizon. I've had trouble with my phone lately and you know how hard it is to get a hold of an actual live person to talk to you. And so and then when you do, it's like gold. If you actually get a hold of a live person who's nice and it doesn't even matter if they have all the answers, just the fact that you can talk to them when they're nice is huge.
00;56;45;20 - 00;57;01;14
Speaker 2
And so how much more in the church world in small groups, the fact that you can, like you said, just keep it simple. The fact that your small group hosts or leaders can have somebody that's check in saying, You're doing awesome, we're here for you. You got questions, call me. It's huge.
00;57;03;11 - 00;57;33;08
Speaker 1
You know, before we get into the next reimagined phase that people can go through, I want to Derek, I think you're bringing up a great point right here with that, because coming out of COVID, what we're learning is that people are consuming information far differently. Person to person is they're finding out, I can get it, I can get a sermon just as good digitally as I can get it in person.
00;57;33;19 - 00;57;56;23
Speaker 1
Now, I would say this, and I tell people this all the time, is that, you know, watching church online and being in church in person is a totally different experience because it's almost like listening to a song, you know, of, you know, your your Spotify account. But yet going to the concert and hearing the song, you know, there's a whole different experience when you're with people.
00;57;56;23 - 00;58;26;26
Speaker 1
And it's not just you listening to it solo, but the thing that is important for us to understand is that as people and as the church is learning how to play in the digital world, in the Temple Courts arena, the beautiful thing is that the role that the coach plays is where transformation happens. Just as much as information is getting consumed online transformation is happening more and more exclusively in person.
00;58;27;07 - 00;58;42;17
Speaker 1
And that's why this role is so important. When your vision casting you've got a vision cast off that because transformation isn't going to happen in your your small group ministry without the people that we've just been talking primarily about before we go on to this next piece.
00;58;43;06 - 00;58;53;03
Speaker 2
So speaking of the next piece, we've got number five. We're going to talk about influences, the influences that help community leaders. Steve, take it away.
00;58;54;04 - 00;59;26;07
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. And so this is, you know, the help that you bring around the seal. This is when we talked about the village concept. And the bottom line is you got to ask, you know, who's helping you get a healthy group? Who's surrounding this? The these group leaders, what role do they play? What are they doing? And basically, in our village, we found in and this is a little bit different than the diagram I sent you to a planning smugglers with purpose on page one 43.
00;59;26;07 - 00;59;59;13
Speaker 1
But it is there's there's people that are in your village and they're they're the primary voices kind of like the dirty which is saying you know hey I've got a personal person that's engaging with me. Then there's some processes and they're secondary but it doesn't mean that they're any less important in the role that they play. And if you're looking at the outline because you, you know, went to the show notes and pulled it up, is that understanding that the people that are in building a healthy group are there, the small group point person, hopefully that's you.
00;59;59;13 - 01;00;26;28
Speaker 1
That's who we're targeting on this G squared show. There is the there's the coach or the community leader that's you know, who you who you recruited, who's helping be a voice in there. And then obviously there's the senior pastor, the head of the temple courts. You're head of house to house, they're head of Temple Court. And that triune of people, they play a huge role.
01;00;27;02 - 01;00;56;00
Speaker 1
Now, what's going to be important is that they're all seeing the same thing and the importance of of community and what commune community is after. So all three of those have to be on the same page. But then the other thing, too, is you know, the processes, those things that are secondary, but they help in so many ways of helping a group become healthy which is going to produce healthy disciples.
01;00;56;00 - 01;01;24;15
Speaker 1
So for us, these are the processes that help build a group that is balancing the five verbs of the great commission in the great commandment so that the people inside the group are balancing the the five verbs is a great commission. Great commandment is really quick. There's some type of training that you're giving group leaders. We have a broke down into new host training to leader training, one to leader training to that.
01;01;24;15 - 01;01;46;15
Speaker 1
All three of those have, you know, catchier titles that I'm giving right now. There's tools are primary tools for the health assessment the group assessment there can put links in there too, just to if you go to small group networking for a small group, you'll pull up a page that will help navigate, you know, all the things that Derek's been talking about.
01;01;47;05 - 01;02;08;18
Speaker 1
There's training pathways for the community leader that are important. There's your newsletter Our newsletter is simply just giving an idea on each one of the verbs that a group can do. So then in the course of a year, they're going to get 72 ideas on how to do those five verbs that we're always talking about here we can table.
01;02;08;18 - 01;02;29;16
Speaker 1
Does it give a snapshot to that your small group web page, you know, what's the homepage look like for where small groups are going? And that's what Derrick's going to give you the link to your weekend services your leader retreats are our leader gatherings that we do. Do they reinforce the community leader? Do they do they help them out?
01;02;29;19 - 01;02;47;07
Speaker 1
You're streaming content that you have for both curriculum and training. Are they are they are they training to where you need to go to at the end of mind? Is the curriculum give them tools that you know they can recommend to their groups in an area that they may be deficient in trying to get to the end in mind.
01;02;47;13 - 01;03;10;08
Speaker 1
Social media testimonies on your website folks, all these things are part of the village that that are the influences that kind of impact your groups now. It's one thing to identify them. It's the other thing to say, do I have all of them? And you got to decide, you know, how many people are in your village and you can always keep adding like we've been adding.
01;03;10;17 - 01;03;22;26
Speaker 1
But the thing is, is that are they all saying the same thing? And I would say the reimagining. Who influences your group is going to be super important for you to figure out.
01;03;24;22 - 01;03;27;26
Speaker 2
I can only imagine getting.
01;03;30;04 - 01;03;37;02
Speaker 1
In and I was thinking, imagine dragons. So, you know, you know, you can tell the church side and the venture side.
01;03;37;04 - 01;03;43;24
Speaker 2
I can I was thinking we should have renamed number five instead of the influences. We should have called it The Village People.
01;03;45;24 - 01;03;46;09
Speaker 2
Maybe that's.
01;03;47;04 - 01;03;50;28
Speaker 1
And then we're going to go to something else that's completely different, which I'm not sure it's.
01;03;51;08 - 01;03;57;21
Speaker 2
Maybe that's like post on small groups is the Village People and you're talking about the influences that help us. Yeah, I love it.
01;03;59;23 - 01;04;04;01
Speaker 1
But oh, baby, it's going south, man.
01;04;04;02 - 01;04;22;20
Speaker 2
This was a meaty show, I would say. We talked about the history of coaching itself back spanning 20 plus years. We talked about the five ways for areas to reimagine coaching. That was amazing. Steve, is there any parting amazing nugget you want to give us before we sign off?
01;04;24;14 - 01;04;50;24
Speaker 1
You know, I just think it's it's you know, I've been in your shoes. I've been the only person doing it in a church of two 20. I've been in a larger church where there's, you know, lots of resources. And I would say relationship always wins the game be with the people brush up against a sheep smell like the sheep you know be be in and with them and you'll kind of intuitively get to know what's hurting them and how you can help them out.
01;04;51;04 - 01;05;24;28
Speaker 1
There's a lot of great resources that we have we have a line we have accelerate to help you as a small group point person to know get the learnings, get the learnings that where we have failed and failed epically so that you don't have to do the failings that we've had. So we got great resources for you. And obviously all throughout the Small Group Network, there are great resources on the side of the fence that Derek works with, on the communication side with podcasts and with articles and with so many resources that are out there.
01;05;25;03 - 01;05;29;20
Speaker 1
Good stuff. So this make sure you take a listen to and appreciate.
01;05;29;23 - 01;05;49;00
Speaker 2
Yeah, check the show notes. We'll add in links to all those resources Steve mentioned. And there you have it, your five areas to reimagine in coaching. We want to thank all of you for spending part of your day with us. We hope this episode encouraged you, equipped you, it helps you to lead your small group ministries better. Until next time.
01;05;49;06 - 01;05;49;20
Speaker 2
Good bye.
01;05;49;26 - 01;05;55;09
Speaker 1
See you later, everybody. Thank you for listening. To Steve Glenn on Smulders. If you like what you've heard, make sure you.
01;05;55;09 - 01;06;04;19
Speaker 2
Subscribe to Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. If you want to learn more, make sure you check and Small Group Network NJ.com for more resources.