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The Dreamfuel Show is a research expedition to uncover and unpack the mindsets of impactful tech founders and executives. On this show, we’re going to get real and talk about what was actually going on in their hearts and minds during the harrowing journeys that forged them and their companies! We’ll also speak with performance experts who will share the latest tips, tools, and tricks that can help us realize our own dreams, too.
As we like to say at Dreamfuel, every quarter is a hero’s journey. So be sure to hit follow to join us along the way.
Matt Tait [00:00:00]:
I think everybody that wants to start a company should spend time with themselves before they do it, figuring out who they are and who they want to be. I think part of that is actual, like, who are you actually today? And part of it is aspirational. Who do you want to be? What's the best version of yourself that you see?
Kevin Bailey [00:00:20]:
I'm Kevin Bailey, CEO of Dreamfuel, and this show honors founders who are stepping through fire on their quests to realize their dreams. We dive into their failures and successes and the mental performance skills they're using to achieve their goals in less time and with less frustration. Enjoy The Dreamfuel Show.
Kevin Bailey [00:00:41]:
All right, everybody, welcome to the Dreamfuel show. I am really excited about this guest. We haven't known each other for that long, but we've become pretty good friends, I think, over the course of a few months. And he is an excellent founder CEO. He's the founder of two companies. He founded the company Füdē, which had a good run of about ten employees, and then pivoted to a company called Plat. Went through some tough times. He learned a ton.
Kevin Bailey [00:01:04]:
And then he used that knowledge to found Decimal, which has been a rocket ship, pretty much about 82 employees, 650 clients, and they've actually completed two acquisitions. His name is Matt Tait and a super good dude. And we just did some pretty intense breath work. Is actually the first time Matt's done breath work like this. I asked him a couple, couple questions, asked him for if there's a hundred founders watching this that were in his shoes when he started Füdē, what does he need to tell them? What stories does he need to share that relate to mindset and relate to mental performance and being a great founder. So, Matt, welcome to the show.
Matt Tait [00:01:38]:
Dude, thanks for having me. I'm excited to have a conversation, man, me too.
Kevin Bailey [00:01:43]:
So kind of cutting to the chase. Obviously, let the audience know you're a experienced founder, two companies. What's the first thing that you really want to share with our audience on your experiences growing these two companies and what you've learned?
Matt Tait [00:01:57]:
When you asked me the question, the thing that really came to mind for me was, I think everybody that wants to start a company should spend time with themselves before they do it. Figuring out who they are and who they want to be. I think part of that is actual, who are you actually today? And part of it is aspirational. Who do you want to be? Who do you, what's the best version of yourself that you see? Because I think that you were kind in how you talked about Füdē it was one of those like it was definitely a good idea, terrible business and it totally flamed out. And I think one of the reasons that I even got to that point was I wasnt honest with myself. I didnt even take time to think about who I was and who I wanted to be. I just did it. And I think so many people just do it.
Matt Tait [00:02:45]:
And the time that I spent between the two companies in with myself, understanding who my authentic self is and then also aspirationally who I want to be, I think has had a really dramatic impact on my mental health and I think it's affected how Decimals grow.
Kevin Bailey [00:03:05]:
Who were you when you started Füdē and what self reflection you've done at that point?
Matt Tait [00:03:10]:
I was somebody that had to like, I had to be successful, I had to run my own business, I had to wear the badge of founder and business owner. I had to be the person that was doing everything. I had to never be wrong, I had to be upfront and I had to be the good idea person. Realistically it was a facade of not who I actually am. And I would say actually none of that is who I really am at heart. But I spent so much of my life having to be a high achiever and having to do that. And when I started Füdē I was running away from running somebody else's company. What I found out in that process and with that person, the founder of that company and some of the things that were going on, it was I was running away from something more than I was running to something with Decimal.
Matt Tait [00:04:05]:
I was running to something. And that's a big change too.
Kevin Bailey [00:04:09]:
I want to talk more about. I mean you said Füdē flamed out and you were running away from a previous career and you basically, in so many words said that you were doing it for your ego's sake 100%. And in our prep conversation for this call, you had talked a lot about the pitfalls of following your ego. And I'd love for you to talk to the audience about some of those pitfalls. I know in your answer self reflection you were hinting at this, but I want to know, when you don't do the self reflection and you're just going after ego, what are some of the mistakes you made at Füdē that wouldn't have been made otherwise?
Matt Tait [00:04:46]:
I was an asshole. Quite frankly. I don't think a lot of it. I was really fun to be around. There's a story that my co founder at Decimal, Jacob, will laughingly tell and it's one of those stories that people tell about you that you can awkwardly laugh about, and you can't ever get over the cringe factor inwardly. And there was an intern that was working on a big project for us, and he totally just didn't do it right. And we were working out of a kind of co working incubator space with a bunch of other companies. And I came in one day and he was telling me this, and I yelled at him in front of everybody.
Matt Tait [00:05:24]:
And he's a freaking intern. His name is Joe, and he's an awesome dude, and he's having a great career. He's super sharpen. Not only does nobody deserve that, but an intern doesn't deserve that. And just, like, the volatility that I could have at the time was not something that I think anybody should have to be around. Also, the ego of, like, when things were going well, when we raised money, we got our first institutional investor. Like, I was hot shit, and it was just not who I was at the same time. At home, I'm lucky that I have the world's most amazing and patient spouse, because at the time, we were also.
Matt Tait [00:06:03]:
We had two year old twins, and any parent that has twins, it's a black hole. And we got pregnant with our third. And so, like, everything in life was just, like, crazy. And so you're low on sleep and patience. And that just fed my ego to be, like, out front. And I thought that I had to do everything. I thought I had to drag the world with me, and it just didn't make me the best person.
Kevin Bailey [00:06:31]:
I understand. And I've unfortunately been there at times in my career as well. You had mentioned that your ego got big enough that maybe you stopped being honest with yourself, and maybe you stopped really listening to people talk a little bit about that.
Matt Tait [00:06:45]:
I don't know if at that point in my life, I was really ever honest with myself, other than the fact that I really like starting businesses. I really like that. I think for me, as things got harder, I became less willing to look in the mirror, and I became less willing to think outside the box. I became less willing to ask other people for help. I was somebody that had to just like, I thought I could do it all myself, and that's what a founder was supposed to do. And so failure was all on me. Success was all on me. And the funny thing is, I had an amazing co founder, and he's an awesome dude, but I don't think I let him into all of it.
Matt Tait [00:07:31]:
I wasn't transparent with myself, and that led to just dumb decisions and bad decisions and I am wrong a lot. And now I'm very okay with that. And I talk about it very openly with everybody on my team, with my kids, with my wife. I'm cool being wrong.
Kevin Bailey [00:07:51]:
Yeah. Humility and ego don't mix very well. And I know you're a very humble dude at this point. We've both been humbled, right?
Matt Tait [00:07:57]:
Yeah. I think when life humbles you, you have a choice of either to let it or to not. And it's much easier when you let it.
Kevin Bailey [00:08:04]:
And I think it's funny people talk about you get this big award or something. Oh, it's so humbling. I've been humbled. No, humbling is getting the crap kicked out of you by one of these businesses. That's humbling.
Matt Tait [00:08:14]:
Humbling is looking up and saying I thought I was awesome and now I have no proof of that. And so im not.
Kevin Bailey [00:08:23]:
Tell me about how that felt when Füdē went down and Plat went down and you realized you werent everything you thought you were.
Matt Tait [00:08:31]:
I took a couple of months. I would say I hit total rock bottom and it was more than work and part of it. I do think its generationally with us. I think younger kids are much more able to note directly tie their identity to their work. But for me, I did everything I was doing from my first job. I'm a recovering lawyer. I worked in a big law firm. Like my identity was work.
Matt Tait [00:08:57]:
That was who I was and period, divorcing those two things, me and who I am as a human being from what I do was a big step in the right direction. And failure is what really let me do that because I decided to look at myself and say, I failed at business. I'm not a failure. And I really looked and I tore my life down to the studs. And like I said, I'll go back to I have the world's most amazing and patient spouse and she's always had a way cooler job than me and she's way better at parties than I am. But she let me do that. And my kids were at an age where they didn't necessarily need to see how tough that is on a parent. It's something that I do talk to them about a little bit now as they're getting older.
Matt Tait [00:09:48]:
But I figured out who I wanted to be as a human being first. And then I started to get back into work.
Kevin Bailey [00:09:55]:
Hey, it's Kevin and I hope you're enjoying the show. I know it's tough out there right now for tech leaders and we appreciate you taking the time to focus on your mental performance and well being. Speaking of time, did you know that 76% of tech leaders lose 20 or more hours of productivity a week due to stress, fatigue, and feeling overwhelmed? To win these hours back, leaders need to learn the mental performance skills that keep you in the zone, where research shows that executives are five times more productive. And that's where we come in. Dreamfuel's octane cohort is our flagship mental performance program built for tech leaders under pressure who want to achieve their most ambitious goals in less time and with less frustration. To learn more, go to dreamfuel.com octane or just click the link in the description to see if you qualify.
Kevin Bailey [00:10:39]:
All right, back to the show. I want to get to the second story, but I want to ask you, uncoupling your identity from your business, why is that a competitive advantage as an executive?
Matt Tait [00:10:54]:
You can control you. There's one thing in life you can control, and that's you and your reaction to it and to what happens. There is literally nothing else you can control. By decoupling, it means that the ups and downs of running a business, the ups and downs of being a parent, of being a spouse, of anything that happens in life, you can control you. And so it gives you a solid rock of a foundation to build upon. And we can't control our reactions and our emotions, but we can control who we know we are. When we get through that emotion, when we get through that reaction, we can come back to who we are. And it's a solid foundation that I found to be exceptionally helpful, because you're right.
Matt Tait [00:11:40]:
We've been really lucky that Decimal has grown fast, but it has not been smooth. It's a dumpster fire. It just depends on the day. And I've got an amazing team that does some awesome stuff, but it hasn't been easy. And what's got us through that, what's gotten me through that is understanding who I am and letting that evolve, too.
Kevin Bailey [00:12:04]:
Well said. Moving on to story number 200. Founders. Listening to this in your shoes before you started, Füdē, what do they need to hear?
Matt Tait [00:12:12]:
It's okay to fail. You will fail a lot and be okay with that. Get back up. Be curious about how and learn and do it with your own identity intact. Like, I really think that people need to spend time understanding who they are. I mean, you and I get it. We meet people for dinner or spouses, friends, and you're just like, wow, that guy has no fucking clue. And that's a lot of people.
Matt Tait [00:12:37]:
If you're going to start a business, it will rip you to shreds even if you're successful. I would not say that that's a wanted poster for running a business, but it's the truth.
Kevin Bailey [00:12:50]:
What was the analogy you gave about starting businesses? Something about a hangnail or something?
Matt Tait [00:12:54]:
Oh, I don't know. It's like nine tenths terrible and one.
Kevin Bailey [00:12:57]:
10Th amazing, even when you've done it multiple times.
Matt Tait [00:13:01]:
Oh, yeah, it's fucking terrible, but I love it.
Kevin Bailey [00:13:04]:
Yeah, me too. I really want to hear a story, Matt. Gory details, something that you can tell from your experience, because you have such great wisdom. I want to hear something from the trenches that rocked you, that gave you one of these pieces of wisdom. Why do you believe that so much?
Matt Tait [00:13:20]:
I will never forget walking into a meeting with my co founder at Füdē and one of our last two employees. We'd already terminated everybody. We had two more left. And telling them that I just didn't have the. I couldn't keep going. It was done. I did not see a path forward. We'd already let the rest of the team go, and we were, hey, we can figure this out.
Matt Tait Tait [00:13:46]:
We've got at that .2 products that are doing stuff, and people are sort of buying it, and people have this, and it's going to be great, and we can figure it out. And you kind of lie to yourself, and you also hope, like, part of being an entrepreneur. And what I've learned is we're the type of people that see the light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes that light's really small. Sometimes it's a lot bigger. And it was just, it had gone out for me and to walk into a room and to tell those guys that I don't think I'd actually said it out loud to myself yet. And that was one of the single hardest things I had done. And then to walk, I went on a walk with one of them.
Matt Tait [00:14:29]:
He looked and he said, the way that you want to do this, your plan for doing this, I think it's immoral and it's wrong, and I can't stand up to it. And I disagreed with him, and I said, well, that's okay. Your last day is today. Then I have no need for you from this point forward. Sorry you feel that way. We've seen each other, but I wouldn't say we've talked since. And then having to go home, I don't think I'd been fully honest with my wife yet and say, hey, I don't have a job anymore. And just watching her process, that.
Matt Tait [00:15:03]:
That sucked.
Kevin Bailey [00:15:04]:
I know how brutal that had to be for you, man.
Matt Tait [00:15:07]:
Yeah, it sucked.
Kevin Bailey [00:15:08]:
I want to pull on a thread there that you said, you know, you said that team member said you thought it was an immoral decision. And I know how much you stand for ethics and values and morals and kind of live your life that way and run your businesses that way. Explain to me why that's so important to you.
Matt Tait [00:15:25]:
At the end of the day, there's only one thing I'm going to be remembered by, and that's my kids. Everything else, people are going to forget about. But they're going to carry some legacy of me on, and that'll continue in their kids. And I'm part of the legacy of my parents. Who they are as human beings is the only thing that I can really reflect in them. I can't give them success. I can't give them failure, but I can give them right and wrong. And to me, I've seen firsthand really bad, truly immoral decisions, really wrong things for people to do.
Matt Tait [00:16:08]:
And I just want to be able to sleep at night to look at my kids and say I've done the right thing. And even if it's the hard thing, even if it is the monetarily wrong thing to do, I want to be able to look myself in the mirror and control me. And I want me to be worth looking at. I want my kids to take that away, and I want my kids to see that.
Kevin Bailey [00:16:35]:
That's beautiful, man. If you had to go back to that dude who let his last few team members go and had to go tell his wife, I'm unemployed, could he ever imagined in that moment that you were going to start Decimal and have this much success?
Matt Tait [00:16:52]:
You know, the funny thing is, yeah, he did.
Kevin Bailey [00:16:54]:
You still saw the light. Even though he didn't see the light at Füdēr plaid, you still saw the light.
Matt Tait [00:16:58]:
There's a huge part of me that just likes saying, fuck you. I mean, my team members and friends will tell you that if you get to know Matt well enough, one of the ways he will lovingly tell you hello is with the middle finger.
Kevin Bailey [00:17:11]:
You gave metal fingers the beginning of the show.
Matt Tait [00:17:13]:
See, it's how we know we're friends. And I think that I know people that have hit rock bottom and never gotten up, and I know people that have hit rock bottom, and it took them a lot longer than it did for me to stand up for me. I don't know if I knew it, but I knew I was going to fight like hell to do it. I knew that there was nothing that was ever going to hold me back from standing back up and trying again. So I don't know if I would have said, and we haven't been successful at Decimal. We'll be successful. We'll get to success someday. Where we are now is not an endpoint, but I do know that I'm going to fight like hell to get there.
Kevin Bailey [00:17:52]:
We always talk about the hero's journey at Dreamfuel and that the outcomes we go after aren't nearly as important as the person we become in the process.
Matt Tait [00:18:00]:
Yeah.
Kevin Bailey [00:18:01]:
How has this entrepreneurial rodeo of two companies of the heartache that you talked about with Füdē and you're humble about it, some of the triumphs that you've experienced at Decimal, how has it changed you as a person from start to finish? Who are you now versus who were you?
Matt Tait [00:18:18]:
I do think I care. Like, I really care about our team. I really care about people. I really care about these founders that we talk to. Like, I'm in a business that does really boring stuff, but it helps people do business better. Like, I really like helping people. I really like being able to raise three pretty damn cool kids. Failing at being a good husband, but at least trying.
Matt Tait [00:18:46]:
I really like being a good person and leading that way. I really like being able to actually have these conversations and not manufacture emotion, but to really, like, display the truth of it. Yeah. I also think, like, part of the hero's journey for me and I think for you and for a lot of us right now that we don't talk about enough is leading through the pandemic was a life changing, trauma inducing moment that also has affected who I am and how I lead today.
Kevin Bailey [00:19:22]:
How so?
Matt Tait [00:19:23]:
Dude, there's a lot of stuff that's just cool now that wasn't. I mean, we have 35 people in the Philippines, and I do a quarterly all hands, and I'm on there on Monday night. So just a couple of days ago, and the woman leading it has her son on her lap and he's crying and she's apologizing. And I said, hey, stop. It's fine. It's totally fine. Do you keep doing you? And I slacked her separately, and I said, hey, if you're uncomfortable eating with him there, you tell me, I'll take over. If you're comfortable doing it, then you keep doing you.
Matt Tait [00:19:56]:
I'm very okay with that. I think life is messy and it's now okay. Like, dude, if that would have happened before the pandemic, we would have been judging the shit out of her. But now, like, that's just part of life. The other thing, too, is. And you and I have talked about this and I've talked about this with other people that you and I both know, where it's now, okay, for us as leaders to talk about what we're struggling with. We have to be careful how we talk about it. But we can be transparent.
Matt Tait [00:20:23]:
We don't have to always stand up and be like, hey, everything's fucking great right now. Like, no, it's not. And I think the pandemic gave us that gift. But it also, like, tell a story. You want to know something that I never thought I'd ever have to deal with? We hit the pandemic, right? It's literally six weeks after we start Decimal, and we have one full time employee and one intern, both still with the company. It's awesome. And our full time employee, her significant other, about a month and a half into the pandemic, gets into a horrible motorcycle accident, traumatic brain injury, loses an eye, is in a coma for months. She's the only person capable of doing the work for our clients.
Matt Tait [00:21:06]:
She's working from a hospital room. We coordinated sending her food. My co-founder's mom was watching her kids and letting them swim in their pool. Like, we're balancing all of this along with the, oh, shit. We just got 15 new clients. And that's during the pandemic, when you're still bleach, wiping your groceries and, like, not seeing your parents or grandparents. That changed who I am and how I lead. As much as anything else, you got.
Kevin Bailey [00:21:36]:
A ton of stories to share, my friend. We were about a time, and I really appreciate you sharing some of your wisdom here and also getting into the real stuff. And I hope those listening to this enjoyed what you had to share, getting very real. And tell us a little bit about Decimal, just real quick. Just if anybody's anywhere in and around your space and your podcasts, you run two great podcasts.
Matt Tait [00:21:58]:
So, one I think is relevant. Decimal is just bookkeeping and tax and all that stuff. Like, you have to do it. That's why I like it. It's much different than restaurant marketing. So that's Decimal. I like you. I love having these types of, like, actually authentic conversations.
Matt Tait [00:22:15]:
And I think more people need to think about these things and be okay with them. So, our podcast is After the First Million. We talk about what it's like to actually have to get through building a business and how hard that is for sometimes. Guys like you and me, we love going through startup phase and getting through it, but then you reach a point where you're like, oh shit, I got to build a real company that's totally the antithesis of every fiber of my being. And then there's a lot of emotions that come with that, too. So I just love talking to people and all that stuff, and I appreciate you having me on.
Kevin Bailey [00:22:49]:
Hey everyone, hope you enjoyed The Dreamfuel Show. If you'd like to continue listening to more episodes, subscribe to Apple, Spotify, YouTube.
Kevin Bailey [00:22:57]:
Or wherever you get your podcasts.
Kevin Bailey [00:22:58]:
We'll be here every other week. And if you want to learn more about about Dreamfuel's octane program for tech leaders, go to dreamfuel.com/octane. Or just click the link in the description.