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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
When the Storm Comes: A Journey Through Loss, Healing, and Brotherhood
00:00
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Restorative Man podcast. My name is Jesse French and I'm excited today for lots of reasons. And one of them is I'm joined by my good friend and colleague, Mr. Cody Burriff, who is co-hosting with me today and will be jumping in here in the coming weeks. And so Cody is, you can't see him, but I'm just going to paint the, uh, as the most important fact about Cody, I'm just going to define him really quick, which is unfair, but.
00:29
You can see him right now. You would just see this man with just this beard that is stellar. It's the volume is so thick. It's so impressive. I'm incredibly jealous. And so Cody has a sweet beard. There's many other attributes. He's not defined by that, but it's, uh, it's one of these great qualities. But Cody, thanks for being willing to cohost and jump in here. Yeah. Well, thanks for having me. I'm excited about the opportunity and, uh, Jesse, I know we've worked together for a long time.
00:58
It seems like every time we talk, we end up in surprisingly fantastic places. And I am grateful for our relationship and then I get to work with you. So glad to be able to do that here in this way. So agreed. Agreed. Yeah. And then today I'm also particularly excited because we get to interview somebody who I really like, I really enjoy as my good friend, Michael Bowen.
01:25
Some of you may have met him at a Grove retreat. I know I met Michael on the journey backpacking trip several years ago, and he's been a dear friend ever since. It's a catch up and hang out every few weeks or so. And I've appreciated that a ton. And so Michael, welcome. It's good to have you. It's good to be here. And I like that you have your screen enhancement on Cody, cause not only it takes the gray out of the beard, but somehow it's, it fluffs it up.
01:55
give some real characters. See it on the screen. Uh huh. And he doesn't even wait. It's like four seconds in and it's, I know I like Michael a lot. Yeah, man. Yeah. We're glad to have you. I know today we wanted to jump into a particular conversation that is.
02:24
mean really significant for you. For you guys who are listening, Michael lives in Saluda, North Carolina, just outside of Asheville, just south of Asheville. And I know this episode, you're not gonna hear it for a few weeks, but recently there was a major event that swept through that area of the country. Helene, the hurricane, if you remember, on the news and all the pictures of flooding and the chaos, that is right smack where Michael lives.
02:53
And so we just wanted to check in with him and touch base with him and hear how he's doing, what the experience has been like for him. I know when it happened, he was actually at the Grove Retreat in Colorado. And so, Michael, do you wanna just kinda share with us, maybe a little bit about yourself, but then also, man, what have the last month or so been like for you? Yeah, man, thanks guys. That's been a lot. Yeah, I'm gonna...
03:22
I'm an architect. I live in Western North Carolina. I have a, my wife, an interior designer. We're the, the wonder twin powers of a two person firm. And we have two full grown daughters, fully grown children, I call them, adult children that live in Asheville. Like actually got hit worse than we did, but yeah. So we're hunkered down on the, on eight acres, just over eight acres in Saluda living and working where we.
03:52
we call home and where our community is. Michael, as I think about just even the timeframe, it's interesting how some of the timeline unfolds. The last time I saw you was actually in person at the Grove Retreat out in Colorado. And that retreat was at the end of September and the retreat finished on a Sunday. And I remember saying goodbye, you know, the retreat ended and you and a couple other guys from North Carolina understandably were.
04:19
Cause it was right that that was like right when the hurricane was kind of at its peak. Um, and you guys were out in Colorado and I remember saying goodbye to you and you're like, man, I were just entering into such devastation that we don't haven't seen yet, but we're trying to prepare for that. And you were, you're understandably just like overwhelmed at the prospect of driving back home, like take us back a little bit to that time, maybe just some of the drive and just some of that reentry as you were faced with.
04:48
Well, it started on Friday morning, the first morning of the Grove. I woke up at 5 a.m. to check my phone to see if I had a message from Duke Power that our power was out. And it was like, oh cool, power's still on. And then like five minutes later, I got a text that the power was out. So that was the start of the big day at the Grove, the big Friday. And I couldn't get a hold of my wife, you know, fighting to be fully present at the Grove while...
05:18
you know, images and pictures are starting to trickle in on other guys' phones. But yeah, the full extent wasn't known. When the Grove ended at lunchtime on Sunday, me and Nolan were actually going to stay till Wednesday, till like Wednesday afternoon. I was going to go up to Fort Collins and fish and Nolan had some business stuff in Denver, but we decided Sunday morning at breakfast that we were just going to boogie and bail on everything and just try to get home. So going home.
05:48
We drive straight through every, this is our third year in a row going out there. We leave North Carolina and drive 23 hours straight through and get to Colorado and we turn around and cannonball around right back the other way. It's a lot of fun. Uh, but you know, not knowing what we were going back to and really spotty communication with people on the ground here, we had service, but we had two things going on, we didn't know one, how we were going to get home because I 40 through the gorge.
06:18
Uh, as you enter in from, uh, into North Carolina on I 40, I 40 is washed out. They're anticipating like five years before that road's open again. So we were spending the day as we were driving across country, trying to. Like, can we, you know, what's, what's the South route look like? You know, kind of Nashville was a place where we had, or Knoxville, I'm sorry, was where we had to make a decision if we were going to go South, you know,
06:45
towards Memphis and go through Atlanta and come up from the south. But that was like four hours longer or if we were going to wait, we knew I-26 was closed, was washed out above Asheville, but we didn't know how far above Asheville. So all day long, you know, Nola was doing a lot of Intel, like with Waze and other apps of what people were saying. So we realized that we could go 81 up towards Bristol and then cut down.
07:14
You know, through the mountains, through little two lane roads to Weaverville, just above Ashland and then come down. So we ended up doing that. But in Paducah, Kentucky, we stopped at a Walmart and like my wife, I had finally talked to my wife and what she needs and what neighbors need. And like we bought every five gallon gas can we could buy some diesel cans and filled all those up. Like we had like 50 gallons of gas in cans. We had.
07:43
I had personally like two weeks where the canned food for meals. Shannon's text was all, you know, the, the cans we need cash because everything was cash only, so bring lots of cash back. Uh, we need drinking water cause we don't have any water. And she said, I drank all the will it like in case of emergency break last top steel one. She's like, I drank it. I need you to bring home more ramen.
08:13
and whiskey and bourbon and all that stuff. So. I like that. Priority and requests like the neighbors that were helping her get the generator and gas, like what type of beer they liked and what they want to pick that up and bring it home. So we made like a two hour provisioning stop in Paducah and uh, that just kept going and we got back here at night. It was dark. It was a war zone.
08:41
I'm really grateful it was dark because you couldn't see the extent of it, you know, very far. Lots of stop and go traffic, lots of just crazy stuff like, oh my gosh, that semi is blown over. Lots of one lane roads, lots of washouts, lots of landslides. So I finally got home about 930 at night and couldn't see the extent of my property, but the generator, the neighbors had helped. You know, we left on Tuesday before the Grove.
09:08
It was sunny and no rain forecasted and maybe the storm was going to get here. But Tuesday night, it started raining this crazy front that settled in on us before the hurricane still out in the Gulf. Like from Tuesday till Thursday, like there was like 18 inches of rain on this crazy prefront and then, because one of my nerd things is I, last couple of years, as I keep track of the rain, like I had my gauge and keep track and total it up. Yeah, you do.
09:36
I was like, Shannon, will you keep that going? I love how much it rained. So she did that. So from when I left at noon on Tuesday, till when the rain stopped like at two or three PM on Friday, there was over 40 inches of rain. Uh, no way. Wow. Like at one point on Friday, I got to have an eight inch rain gauge. At one point on Friday, Shannon emptied that twice and it was, it was overflowing at eight inches. So like we got 40.
10:04
You know, I had no idea, but yeah, just the, the devastation was pretty, I want to say impressive or amazing. The devastation was devastation. What was amazing was just the community that rallied like ahead of FEMA, ahead of any other help was impressive and was really cool to be a part of that. Just running chainsaws and like work stop. I didn't work for.
10:34
almost two and a half weeks. We didn't have internet or water or power or anything. So for 12 days and we got, we got power back. So yeah, just, you know, until, until like the Saturday or I got home Sunday, or I'm sorry, Monday night, probably until like Tuesday or Wednesday, we couldn't get very far on our road either direction to get out, but finally got cleared and we could find a back way in to try to, I mean, we're, we're our own worst enemies like.
11:03
People ran on the, you know, you run on the gas stations and there's no gas. And so it was, it was surreal. It was crazy. It was like, I grew up, you know, I lived in Florida. I've been in hurricanes, but I've never experienced like floodings one thing. But then you take that flooding and send it downhill at the momentum of what physics do to a body in motion, uh, going downhill, just the, the destruction's crazy.
11:33
We fared really well. A lot of people lost their lives. A lot of people lost everything. There's whole towns and communities that are gone. But in the aftermath, just the people that showed up from everywhere was so humbling. You know, the people, the linemen crews that got our power, like we're kind of out in the middle of nowhere, but they were from Oklahoma and from Ontario, Canada. And it's just like, you know, the beauty of people showing up without, you know, without question.
12:02
was super powerful. It's like, I want to be a part of that. So we're talking today. The storm was September 27th. Today's November 14th, Asheville still doesn't have drinking water. So that's, you know, we're, we're pushing, you know, two months coming up here in a week or two, like a month and a half. So just the long-term, you know,
12:32
Yeah, this it's been really hard to get my mind back into work. I love what I do, but everything that was going on, the desire to help. I'd be a part of something bigger. Really just made work. Like that's the last thing that's important right now. I had client calling me for stuff. I'm like, I'm not even having this conversation with I'm helping my friends and neighbors, I'll get back to you when I get back to you. I said it nicer than that, but I know a little more professional, but you know, work just.
13:02
was completely irrelevant. Yeah. So yeah. Michael, as I hear you talking about it and even kind of see the look on your face, you know, I know there's different ways that we talk about trauma, you know, big T trauma, little T trauma, things like that, that are part of our lives, part of our communities. And I'm aware that like even just talking about it, which I also know you have to do a lot, like every conversation, you know, to some degree has something to do with a hurricane. There's a lot of trauma that you've had to endure.
13:32
And your community has had to endure together. And I know you, I know we talked a few weeks ago, you use the word violation to describe what you feel like you've experienced. Can you, could you talk a little bit more about that? Uh, it was like, you and I were talking in one morning and I used that word. And I realized I felt like it brought up what I was feeling in my body was when I was, gosh, maybe 10, we were moving from Tampa to California.
14:00
And we were all my brother, my sister, my mom, my dad, it was Christmas time. So we're driving cross country in a suburban and had all our Christmas presents in the suburban and at the holiday in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. So sorry, if there's any people listening from Hattiesburg, I don't hold it against you, but somebody that night broke into our suburban and stole all our Christmas presents. And I just remember the sense of violation. Like somebody got in my stuff and took my stuff. And.
14:28
as I walked around the property and just saw the amount of land that we lost, because the creek just became a raging torrent body of water that just, we lost so much land that I'll never get back. Like I felt like there was a sense of violation. And just the big oak trees, you know, this piece of property that I own was logged, you know, just raped violently by loggers back in like 2015.
14:56
And they left like three really big oaks on the edges and those all came down in the storm. And that's just everywhere. And the predominant tree that came down as oaks, cause they're so top heavy and you know, don't have giant tappers that go down. Like tens of thousands of giant oaks. You know, you see the root balls in the tree. Just, yeah, just as this literal sense of being, of, you know,
15:24
I'm kind of a tree hugger. I'm a sensitive guy. I love trees. I love nature. And, you know, just felt really violated by what had just happened. And it's not, I can't make it go away. Everywhere I look, there's a down, a down tree that, you know, someday somebody will get to that. So yeah, it was a word that I think I feel, I feel more in my body than actually what happened, but when we're talking about trauma, like
15:52
My body's holding the score anyway. So that's what it's feeling and what it's naming. So yeah. And, you know, the trauma, Cody and Jessie of like, I left my wife here all by herself, you know, with two dogs, but, you know, dealing with making space for her to like, are there feelings of abandonment or neglect that you need to name and we need to talk about. And, you know, my own shame and guilt of, gosh, I left you.
16:22
It was out in Colorado. It was beautiful. You know, the skies were blue and weather was great. And we were fishing and doing amazing stuff at the Grove. And, you know, so that was, there's just been a lot coming back home to unpacking and just holding and making space to name it, to lament it, to celebrate it, to not try to fix it or make it go away. Cause you know, that's what I normally try to do, but I'm getting, I'm recovering from that and my story just like, it's okay. Just to.
16:52
to feel all those feels. I appreciate you saying that because you talk about this, this incredible outpouring of support from the community, from, you know, like you're saying from states, countries away, like such a beautiful thing, right? And I can't even fathom just the amount of, of work to be done, right? Just the amount of need and practical things that need fixing and attending and labor and energy. And so like on one level, I could just see it being really
17:20
Really easy to just say, man, that the need is unimaginable. Like you could just lose yourself in the, and I'm just going to run a chainsaw for 20 hours a day for three weeks straight because, you know, because there's, there's that much work. And yet what I hear you saying is yes, you worked incredibly hard, but you're also saying, no, there was an intentional willingness to process with Shannon, your wife, like this is the feeling that.
17:47
I have the feelings that we have that we're experiencing that there's actually a giving of energy towards that space and not just the practical, you know, physical needs. Like I feel like that's so wise and I would imagine that's a heart pinch in the hole. It still is, but we had a 25 year wedding anniversary trip already paid for and planned the end of September for 10 days on a boat in St. Martin.
18:13
And we were like, do we go, do we not go, do we go, do we not go? It's like, I just, I wanted to get away, not to disengage or kind of put my head in the sand, but I just, I felt the need to really get away to, I wanted to be somewhere where every conversation, every person that you ran into everywhere. Wasn't about the storm, but also, you know, 25 years is a big deal. I didn't want to like just toss that aside and cause we're, we probably wouldn't redo it and just to be intentional about being away.
18:43
and creating that space in the ocean, eating good food, hanging out on the beach to be able to have those conversations about the trauma and the storm and being gone and what happened and where are we and what's going on. What else do you want to name? So it was a real gift to have that trip pre-planned and prepaid for because I think if it wasn't prepaid for, we would have been like, hey, we're out. But yeah, so yeah, it was nice to get away.
19:11
You know, I think I was expecting to come home and it would all be cleaned up. And it's not so they come, came right back and there's still a lot of need, but you know, we're back in the office. We're back working. We're. There are roads all washed out above us. They've been working on that, you know, for two weeks almost. So, and I have a lifetime supply of lumber. I have to chop it up. You know, yeah. I'm curious, Michael, what you might say.
19:38
So Cody and I, right, are examples of friends of yours who are thousands of miles away. Like for us, you know, the news cycle shifted, I don't know, a week, maybe two weeks after that. Right. And it's like, it's out of mind. Like I, you know, I haven't thought about that until this conversation here, probably. And so I'm curious, like for people, what would you say to those that.
20:03
are removed from like natural disaster and so that they're not facing the day-to-day realities of that but they know people and loved ones and friends who are in that reality like would love some of kind of your words like to them of Not a formula but as you think about some of those interactions for people that are navigating the violation the devastation of their homes What would be maybe just some important things that you want those of us that are removed from it? Yeah
20:30
I think one, for me, it's really nice to have conversations that aren't Helena-centric. It's really refreshing just to like, hey, what's going on? How are you doing? How's work? How are the girls? How? It's kind of like, quote unquote, normal conversations. But also, the human soul doesn't have the capacity to hold the grief of everything going on in the world simultaneously. So it's also a real gift.
20:58
like Jesse, for you to say, yeah, after a week or two, it's kind of out of your peripheral vision. And I think that's a gift because there's other things going on, you know, in Colorado that are grabbing your attention and have your needs that, you know, we can't hold all that stuff all the time. And I think that's a gift from God to be able to like other stuff comes along and stuff moves on and out of the picture. But, you know, just as you think about those things, just pray, you know, God.
21:27
What do you want me to pray? Be praying in this situation for, you know, Michael and his community. And, you know, if he gives you a word, pass it along. If you just, man, lift this up. And so, but again, one of the nicest things to do is just to hang out and kind of not talk about it, you know, because there's still a lot of really beautiful, good stuff going on that I don't want to lose sight of. Yeah. You know, and we'll talk in another time about, you know, the architecture, but
21:57
You know, coding back to your trauma thing, like the name of our business is Rise Root. And it was a, it's a metaphor for, well, it's one, it's Isaiah 11, you know, a root from the stump of Jesse will rise up, but it's also a metaphor of like, we're trying to do architecture differently. So if you see a root ball, like you see the whole place, like you see everything. There's no other side to us. There's no, like what you see is what you get.
22:23
as a metaphor, but now we're dealing with, I see root balls everywhere and it's destructive. And it's been really incredibly disruptive what that has done to me and to Shannon and all the landslides and the roads washed out, like the erosion that uncovers bedrock. But figuratively, like what that storm eroded in me, I'm really having a hard time getting back into work. It feels really small.
22:53
It feels like a really kind of insignificant narrative. You know, I've kind of accomplished everything. I, I wanted to be an architect. I wanted to have my own firm. I wanted to do what I love doing. And now all of a sudden I feel like I'm wandering around like questioning. Like, am I really is what we're, I know I'm supposed to be doing what I'm doing, but how we're doing it, are we, are we doing it the way we're supposed to be doing it?
23:20
So it's the storm that does do physical devastation. We're, you know, we're struggling trying to name stuff in us that, you know, what are you trying to say in all this? Cause we're really uncomfortable, incredibly uncomfortable. Michael, I mean, I'm fully aware that you've gone through a, a super disruptive, like everything around you, right. Has been ripped up and tossed around and washed away and, you know, muddied.
23:49
And so it makes sense that like the inner world is going to reflect the outer world a ton. And so I know you and already appreciate you, but I also appreciate that you're engaging the inner world and giving yourself space and your wife's space and all of it, you know, space to actually like go there. It makes sense that you would go there. It's okay. It's good. And it's actually been really beautiful because part of my story, second story is like when my inner world is...
24:18
of jacked up and I'm feeling off, whether it be through sin or neglect or whatever. I start nitpicking my outer world like, Shannon, why didn't you pick up? Why is that not folded? Why'd you hang my shirts backwards? Feeling like if I could get my outer world organized and there's not chaos, then that'll settle what's going on in me. It never works, but that's what plays out. And now I'm actually literally in a space where
24:46
I can't do anything about the world outside my front door. And there's so much tension and it's really beautiful all at the same time because God's not asking me to fix it. He's inviting me just to, to sit in it, sit with it and name it and be okay with, you know, his process of brain, you know, not just physical restoration around me, but the story and the narrative in me and my friends and my community and my family. So it's been.
25:16
incredibly difficult and incredibly beautiful at the same time. Like it's a, it's a gift. It's a really strange gift, but it's a gift nonetheless, if you let it be. And I just think Michael, those words that carry even more weight for me to hear that from you as you're in the middle of it. Like there is not the bow of resolution of, Hey, we're five, 10, 12 years post hurricane. And you know, we can look back and kind of
25:44
slap the bow of resolution on it like you're six weeks after it and all has not been resolved and there is so much that you're discovering and so much pain that you're walking through and yet you're naming there's goodness even in the midst of that and so it's not a negation of that but it's actually I feel like a true articulation of yes this is true and what is also true is the goodness that is present and those are actually exist at the same time. Yeah that's what's happening and you know I love Dan Allen who's like you can't compare your trauma to somebody
26:14
Cause it'd be easy for me to just kind of brush it off and say, but I didn't get it as bad as other people. And that's true. But what we went through and what I went through is what I went through. And, you know, just to be able to name that for me, for my community, for my family, I tell you, you know, one of the bigger gifts in this that we haven't talked about yet is, you know, my brotherhood group, you know, there's seven dudes in the group, including me.
26:44
You know, five of them were at the grove. They all suffered loss and went through the same thing I did. And, you know, are the two dudes who couldn't make it went through it at home, but. You know, we're still getting together and hanging out and like pressing in and. You know, post storm, I'm professionally feeling incredibly isolated. Cause it's just me on eight acres, kind of out in the middle of nowhere doing what I do. But from a.
27:13
personal standpoint, I couldn't be more opposite of isolated because of my brotherhood, because of the community that we have around us. So it's just kind of proofs in the pudding of how important it is to have those dudes in your life. Yeah. Thanks for saying that. Yeah. And I think that's testament to the work that you've put in right before, years and years ago, right? To say like, Hey, this is needed. There's a value to this.
27:42
and I'm going to prioritize and pursue this with these men. Yeah. That's, that is cool. It could be more beautiful. I don't think anybody could have scripted it more beautifully than what's happening. So it's just, it's a real lifeline and a real anchor for, you know, for all of us and our families. Right. Yeah. I'll say, well, Michael, thank you for inviting us into the hard place that you're in currently and the ways that you've had to navigate that and walk through that. It's, it's an honor. Thank you.
28:11
Yeah. Thank you for getting the ulterior. I talking about it again. It's a, it's, it's a good thing. No, it's really a good thing to detox because you forget from conversation to conversation, what you start holding. And so it's good to talk about it and get it out. So thank you guys for asking questions. Thank you for being concerned. Thank you for being my friends and my brothers. I really appreciate you guys. Yeah. You're welcome. Thanks Michael. It's great. Appreciate it. Yeah, guys.