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Lower Mainland Mental Health Walks
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The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.
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Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the Silvercore podcast.
Silvercore has been providing its
members with the skills and knowledge
necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years.
And we make it easier for people to deepen
their connection to the natural world.
If you enjoy the positive
and educational content.
We provide, please let others
know by sharing, commenting, and
following so that you can join in on
everything that Silvercore stands for.
If you'd like to learn more
about becoming a member of the
Silvercore club and community,
visit our website at silvercore.
ca.
I'm joined today by a man who has
touched thousands of people's lives
through his determination, adventurous
spirit, and genuine compassion.
He's a Ted talk alumni who spoke
on mindfulness and resilience and
is using his role as a professional
educator to introduce his students
to the outdoors, hunting and fishing.
Welcome to the Silvercore
podcast, Steve Wilson.
Steve Wilson: Thank you so
much for having me, Travis.
It's, uh, I'm incredibly grateful to be
Travis Bader: here.
Well, we've been conversing back and
forth on social media for some time.
Of course, we've both
been on the collective.
Yep.
Which is, uh, if people are watching
this one right now, where this
mug comes from, do your best.
And pick up the pace.
Pick up the pace, do your best.
Pick up the pace.
Fantastic.
Podcasts there.
And of course we just touched base on,
uh, one of the mental health walks there
that Seb puts on every, what, two weeks?
Every second Sunday.
Yeah.
Every second Sunday.
You know how that one came about?
Uh,
Steve Wilson: I roughly, yeah.
And I think what's interesting
is the story of how Seb and
I sort of got connected.
It's, um, a young friend of mine who you
may have seen in the Ted talk, a young
guy named Matt Jenkins, who I believe
you've had him on your podcast as well.
I have.
Um, he is the one who
introduced me to Seb.
And it's a very, I got to
admit my imposter syndrome is
firing like crazy this morning.
As, uh, as I was driving here, it's
like, what business do I have being
on a hunting or, uh, or outdoor
podcast in general, but it's kind
of, it's, it's a perfect, uh, segue
into how this all got started for me.
Because when I think about working with
youth and I think about working with
people in general, and I'm trying to
bridge that world between youth and
adults as well now, because I find that.
The kids don't stand a chance unless the
adults that are in their lives are working
on themselves as much as the kids are.
That's become really kind of a target
and a, and a focus of the work that
I'm, I'm trying to do these days.
And one of the things that I fear
that kids haven't taken enough
control of in their own lives is
just sort of their resilience.
Right.
And that's what your whole
Travis Bader: conversation
was about on the Ted talk.
Yeah.
I'm going to put a link to that Ted talk
in, because it's absolutely fantastic.
And you, you know, the, um,
uh, you touched on a bunch of
topics here, uh, Matt Jenkins.
So we haven't aired his podcast yet
because he called up and said, Oh
my God, I just finished this course.
I have so many more things
I want to talk about.
Can we do a redo?
And I'm like, Oh, a hundred percent.
And just a fantastic individual.
He is.
Uh, yours will probably be coming up
before his, uh, so Matt's with the RCMP
and he's big on the mental health and.
Yeah, just really kindhearted
individual had a lot of really
great things to say about you.
I appreciate that.
And, um, yeah, of course on those mental
health walks, we'll put a link in there
as well, just so people can see about it.
If they're in the lower mainland.
For sure.
They, they, where they learn mindfulness.
Yeah.
You were introduced to Seb who
started these things and he started
that, uh, a couple of years ago.
I remember I was talking
to him on boxing day.
Yeah.
You know that story?
I know.
I don't.
Okay.
So boxing day, I'm talking to him.
How are you doing, Seb?
Not too good, he says.
Ooh, okay.
What's going on?
He says, one of the people that follows
me on social media, uh, attempted to
take his own life, was unsuccessful.
Right.
And what I thought was really cool about
the whole, whole, uh, scenario here is
the action that happened afterwards,
both from the individual who at some
point will likely be on the podcast.
He's been on others since
then, but, um, uh, I'm still.
Waiting, he's still, he's
got a lot of work to do.
And I don't want to put
that pressure on him.
Yeah.
Um, but as well from Sepp,
who said, you know, there are
people out there who need help.
Yeah.
Who you don't see, right.
It's, it's like that, uh,
Norfolk football club.
Remember their commercial?
There's two guys watching
the football game.
One guy is all down and mopey
and his other friend's full
of energy and he's cheering.
And it shows them game after game.
And then all of a sudden the
Mopi guy shows up and he puts
a shirt down on the seat.
And the cheering guy
is taking his own life.
We don't always see these things, but
what we can do is you can take proactive
steps to be able to work on ourselves and
help others, maybe help identify others.
That's what.
Seb's been doing with
his mental health walk.
And that's what I'm seeing you do from
a very grassroots level in the most
influential way that I can possibly
think of with kids, what age span.
Yeah.
Steve Wilson: Well, grade eight to 12.
Like
Travis Bader: massively
impacting these people's lives.
Steve Wilson: Yeah.
And that's, it's, that's a hard one.
Cause, uh, this year actually
hit double digits for the amount
of students that I've lost.
Um, there was, uh, one of ours was lost
to an ex student to a motor vehicle
accident in this case, but when you hit
double digits, um, you know, it's always
something that's never sat easy with me.
Um, the problem is you do get a little
bit more desensitized when you get
that news nowadays, because with
substances and the opioid crisis, I've
lost four or five, uh, students to.
To the overdoses and what I've really
discovered over 22 years of working
with kids is that I've yet to meet a
kid who wants to make a tragic choice.
I've yet to meet a kid who wants to go
down the route of substances or abuse, um,
in, in those ways and what happens is, is.
People who are left to work
through their things with, with no
assistance or, or without any adult
guidance, they will find the path
that takes the pain away from them.
And in a lot of ways, and in, and in a
lot of tragic situations that, uh, That
tragic choice is simply a way of trying
to remove the pain that they're in and
not being a mental health professional
is a really interesting position to
be in, because I'm just a fellow who
cares enough to have the conversations.
Um, and when our provincial government
came out with a new curriculum about four
years ago, uh, there was a curriculum
overhaul as there is, it's kind of a
pendulum, it swings back and forth in
terms of what, what people feel should be
taught or could be taught in high schools.
And I was really excited to
see the last shift because.
It started to be inclusive of
a lot more conversation around
mental and emotional health.
And realistically, if we're not well
mentally or emotionally, then how
can be well, how can we be well in
the rest of the realms of our life?
Um, it really does.
It's the root of it for sure.
And you know, I know a lot of
people that are mentally well, but
emotionally unwell and vice versa.
I know folks that are emotionally
look stable, but they're quite.
Challenged, uh, with their
mental health in the background.
How would you
Travis Bader: define the
difference between emotional
health and mental health?
Yeah,
Steve Wilson: that's a good question.
And, and I think that, uh, when
you see people that look morose or
depressed, like in the Norfolk ad,
you know, the fella is quite sullen
and he's just cranky and he looks sad.
I would much rather encounter kids like
that every day than the ones who just have
this baseline happiness, but you can't,
well, he can't tell if it's authentic and.
There's a, there's a tremendous amount
of social pressure on youth now in
high schools and elementary schools
alike, um, where you have to appear a
certain way, you know, you don't ever
want to look vulnerable, you know, and
it's, I, I wonder if kids misunderstand
sort of their connection to their own
wellness because they're, It's very,
it's socially awkward for a kid to
look unwell mentally in high school.
Like if they represent with, with, um,
sadness or, or anger or frustration,
they're going to be judged for it.
What about like
Travis Bader: those emo kids?
Steve Wilson: Are they still a thing?
That very much so.
Yes.
Uh, um, my son is who's 12.
My, I've, I've two, I have two kids.
My daughter's 10, my son's 12.
And, uh, my son is very much a preteen.
He is very much in the throes of preteen
angst and, and all that comes with it.
Sure.
Um, but what I find is he's
incredibly impressionable
about what others think of him.
And so he actually said to me recently,
he says, you know, his hair was getting
pretty long and it was hanging in front
of his face, which is quite common
amongst his peer groups these days.
But I said, son, I said, why are
you trying to block out the world?
And he goes, what do you mean?
And I said, that hair.
Hiding your eyes to me from my
experience, working with a lot of
kids over a lot of years is you're
trying to block out the world.
You don't want to see what's coming in.
And that Harris is a
way of telling me that.
And he said, dad, what?
I'm not one of those emo kids.
Come on.
And I said, well, I said, you
might not think you are, but.
Passively, you're telling me
that you're trying to not see
everything in front of you.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
We, we give off, we've got our
verbal, what we're saying, our,
uh, non verbal, our body language
or paraverbal, how we say it.
If each one of these things gives
something off and quite often, if I see
somebody walking in, I'm going to make
these decisions, just snap decisions
based off of, even if they're not
trying to block out the world, that's.
The obvious step that someone's
going to just jump to because we're
all about pattern recognition.
Steve Wilson: Amazingly.
So in youth, when in that pattern
recognition, uh, youth in particular
who lack emotional intelligence or just
life experience can be fiercely, um,
fiercely judgmental and hard on people.
And so what happens is this guard
gets built or this armor gets put on
amongst youth, um, because socially
it's, it can make life very hard for
them to be authentic or to be real.
With their feelings.
And so my job, or I believe what
one of my missions in life, or
one of my, the sole purpose of my
work is to create an environment
for not just youth, but anybody to
actually be real with who they are.
And, and they will know at least
when they're interacting with me,
that there's not going to be any
judgment coming from me about that.
You could be having your worst day.
And if we sit and we have a coffee, or
if you, if you come into my classroom
and we, and we sit and we do the
work, like whoever you are is perfect.
And, and I believe that every single one
of us, myself included, and I, I should
probably take a step back and say, I've
done an incredible amount of work, I think
on myself in the last 10 years or so.
Um, one of my biggest regrets is waiting
until my thirties to see a counselor,
you know, like, um, in our household,
it was always just work harder.
Whatever the challenge
is, just work through it.
I, and I also was a gymnast growing up.
So I, I mean, gymnastics
is a very heady sport.
It's, uh, it's incredibly internal.
And, you know, I had an Eastern
Hungarian, um, coach who was there.
We didn't talk about feelings.
We didn't talk about vulnerability.
There was just perfection.
And if you didn't achieve
perfection, you were less than.
And I don't regret that at all,
but I think what it did is it
taught me not to communicate.
It taught me to not talk
outwardly about my struggles,
but to navigate them internally.
It's a
Travis Bader: tight rope because
there is value to working through it.
There is value to take as long as we
can frame it properly and we can say,
look at this work and this challenges
that I'm having, these failures that I'm
seeing or stepping stones to success.
For sure.
And whatever it might be, there's.
There's a lot of value to that as
opposed to, um, where some people
may ascribe to a victim mentality.
Steve Wilson: Yes.
Well, victim mentality is, is
really what we have to strive
so hard to work away from.
Cause being a victim is never
going to allow you to move forward.
You will always find a reason.
To stall if you have a victim mentality.
And that's one thing Seb and I are very
aligned in when we work with people on
the mental health walk or, and Seb has
been into my classroom before as well to
work with, work with kids here and there.
Yeah, it's, I, uh, victim mentality
is what everybody is stuck in.
It feels like these days and, and I
don't want to judge people for being
there because they have, there's a
reason they've gotten to that point,
but what I really want to do is I want
to encourage people to try and be.
Brave enough to take a step away
from their victim mentality.
What do
Travis Bader: you think that reason is?
Cause I, I have some thoughts on what
Steve Wilson: that is.
Yeah.
Um, I'm a big Gabor Mate believer.
So if you've, if you've worked
with the Gabor, Gabor Mate's
work at all, he's a local guy.
Yes.
And, uh, I'm all of us, and I want
to be careful here cause I don't want
to paint with too wide a brush cause
I can turn some people off, but I do
believe that we, all of us have trauma
in our lives that is unresolved.
That we had a traumatic experience
and, and the word trauma very much.
Can put people in a position of
like a physical trauma or, you
know, um, something profound.
I believe they're much smaller than that.
I believe having a negative interaction
with somebody can feel traumatic,
especially if you had intention of
how that interaction was going to go.
Um, and as adults, we have such
a profound impact on youth.
So, you know, a kid who takes a
chance to talk to their mom or dad or
guardian or caregiver or whatever that
structure looks like nowadays, if a
kid reaches out and takes a chance.
To voice their feelings or their
fears or their vulnerabilities.
And an adult just says
to them, suck it up.
That can feel traumatic to a
point where it either shuts
them off or shuts them down.
And then they're not going to be
willing to go down that road again.
And that over time.
That builds some really, I believe
to be some really unhealthy
patterns, um, that a person will
then settle with and turn inward.
And then what, what the only option that
has is to become a victim based mentality.
Right.
I'm not good enough.
I'm not strong enough.
I took a chance and it
wasn't received well.
So why would I try again?
What
Travis Bader: an interesting, like I
looking at this, I see some challenges
for you that, uh, some very obvious
ones would be the level of compassion
that you display to your students.
How do you compartmentalize that in
a way that you're not taking it home?
I see, um.
If you're that in tune and you're always
sort of on the lookout, how do we, uh,
navigate creating a learned helplessness
within the students where, uh, where the,
you're the person they know they can go
to, uh, even if they just maybe bump their
knee and it's not the end of the world.
And, but.
Steve Wilson: Yeah, it,
everybody has to have people.
Like we all have to have people, and
I wonder how many of our listeners
right now don't have a person or
don't feel like they have a person.
So imagine us as adults, we don't
feel like we have a person to turn to.
So then how can we then
be the person for others?
Travis Bader: I think a lot of the people
listening to this, uh, would, and you
know, they can write in and they can,
I'd be really interested to hear what
they have to say, but I think a lot
of people listening to this are going
to say that they don't have a person.
I
Steve Wilson: agree.
And I, I really think that's where the
root like, and as my work extends and
as I become more experienced in things,
I get far more fired up about the idea
of helping adults connect because.
All the adults, if they're connected,
then the youth around them are
going to inevitably be connected.
Right.
Um, I had an experience with a parent
that I won't get too much into just for
like privacy reasons, but I had a dad in
my, in my space, we were having a parent
teacher interview and he was weeping
about his child who I teach and his child
is not choosing a healthy path in life.
Um, I have had my struggles
with this kid, but I'm.
Never going to give up on him.
So I said to the dad, I was like, tell
me in one way that you have connected
with your son in the last three months.
And he goes, I just, he
just won't talk to me.
And I said, okay, well I said, do you know
what the, his five favorite songs are?
Like, have you looked on his phone?
What is, look at his playlist
on his Apple music, what are the
five songs he listens to the most?
And he's just like, well, I have no idea.
And I said, well, you should, if you
don't know what the top five songs
your kid is listening to are, and
then like, just as an olive branch
of, of, of connection, like, Hey,
tell me why that's your favorite song.
Like even something simple like that,
that really can start to open the doors.
Cause what does it show?
It shows you care enough to know
it shows you care enough to hear
their opinion about it, and it
shows that you're trying to maintain
a level of relevance with them.
And so if you try them on and
they'll just the most simple way,
they'll try you on in something
that might be much more profound.
Like decisions around life or,
or decisions around substance
in, in this particular case.
And it was really interesting because
coming on, uh, prepping to come on
the podcast, I said to all my classes
yesterday, I said, Hey, I'm going on
a, a hunting and outdoors podcast.
I said, I'd love to be able to
give Travis relevant information.
I said, how many of you have been exposed
to hunting or angling with either a mom,
a dad, a caregiver, or a grandparent?
And 60 percent of the
hands in the room went up.
Really?
Yeah.
And so that opened, we'll talk about that.
We'll get into that.
But in particular, this kid was
literally laying in the back of the
room, this child I'm speaking about.
And, uh, he and I haven't seen eye to
eye on much, but the door is always
open and he put, he actually put
his hand up and I said, what's up?
And he goes, Oh, he says, I
harvested a deer in September.
And I said, man, that's amazing.
I said, congratulations.
I said, I didn't even harvest this
year, which is, I worked hard and
I feel like I don't know anything
about hunting after this season.
But, um, I said, who were you
with when you scored in September?
And he goes, I was with my dad and
this is the same person who was.
Crying in my space, talking about
how he wasn't connected to his kid.
Oh, that's amazing.
It's amazing.
That is amazing.
All of a sudden I said, well, did you
get, and I didn't know if he had LEH or
I didn't know, and I was on the fly and
I just said, was it a doe or a buck?
And he goes, no, it was
a dandy little buck.
And all of a sudden he and I
had something to talk about
because it was common ground.
And I think that's like the perfect
example of what I'm trying to
get at is just that find anything
that will create common ground.
Cause then what it does is now, when
I see this kid, cause we're off for
Christmas break now, but when I see
him in the new year, I'm going to
have something to talk to him about
that doesn't involve discipline.
It doesn't involve behaviors.
It doesn't involve, um, his execution
or lack of execution on things.
We can just talk about hunting.
And I think what fires me up is that when
you think about these elemental forms
of If we root them in the outdoors, if
we root them in the woods, if we root
them in togetherness or struggle or
shared adversity, then all of a sudden
we are hitting home runs because how
can you not have conversation that
leads to the essence of who we are?
Travis Bader: So you're talking about,
you know, a baseline of happiness.
Yeah.
And the difficulty and like,
there's not somebody who's
morose and easy to spot out.
And maybe there's an issue there.
Yeah.
Uh, remember those old t shirts and they
said, um, based on the old Dick and Jane
and it was, we're drinking and driving.
It says, see Dick drink, see Dick drive.
Don't be a dick.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh, there's a, have
you heard the poem?
I think I've said it on the, um,
on the, I'm sure I've said it on
the collective, uh, Richard Corey.
You'd have to refresh me.
Okay.
So there's a guy, Edwin Arlington
Robinson, and, uh, he wrote a
poem called Richard Corey, who of
course, Richard, don't be a dick.
I figured if they can do a, uh, a
campaign like this, but this interesting
fellow didn't have a name until I
think he was about two years old and
his parents are at some chalet and
the other guests were like, what do
you mean you haven't named your kids?
Let's let's everyone put names in a hat.
We're going to draw a name.
And Edwin was drawn in the
person who, uh, Suggested Edwin.
It was from Arlington.
So it was Edwin Arlington Robinson.
And, uh, this guy seemed to have
a, uh, a bit of a difficult life.
Maybe he was one of these emo kids
by today's standards growing up
and had a thing for this woman who
ends up marrying her brother and.
Wow.
Um, they're just a bunch of
tragedies, one after the other.
And anyways, he wrote a poem called
Richard Corey, and it was, uh, if I
can remember, so it's something like
whenever Richard Corey went downtown,
we people on the pavement looked at him.
He was a gentleman from soul to crown,
clean, favored, and empirically slim.
And he was always quietly arrayed and
he was always human when he talked.
Yet still he fluttered pulses
when he said good morning and
he glittered when he walked.
And he was rich, yes, richer
than a King and admirably
schooled in every grace and fine.
We thought him to be everything to
make us wish we were in his place.
So on, we worked and waited for
the light and cursed the meat
and went without the bread.
And Richard Corey, when warm
summer's night went home and
put a bullet through his head.
So he is the epitome of the.
Baseline happiness.
Everyone's looking at this person.
It's like, I look at that, like the
Instagram, everything's awesome.
Look at my life.
I got money.
I got relationships.
I'm traveling, but there's nothing.
There's substance.
Right.
And there's something deeply, deeply
hurting that individual to the
point where they think that they
have to take that final solution.
And I, and I think if people in
the same way that I think you were
talking about, instead of mental.
Mental health or no, it was somebody
else talked about mental fitness instead
of mental health is a way to reframe
it and make it a bit more acceptable.
Um, the concept of taking one's own life.
I remember I had a conversation with
a fellow before and, um, these, you
know, difficult things going on.
And it's a suggestion to him that,
um, he should take his own life.
Right.
It was from his wife and her friends.
And, and I said, well.
Uh, they said, you would be
better if you weren't here.
I said, well, maybe they're onto
something, but maybe, maybe not
necessarily that final solution.
Maybe that version of you would
be better for wasn't here.
And I think so many people have a
hard time and they conflate the two as
opposed to that version of me sucks.
I'm not happy.
It's not working.
Yeah.
Just get rid of the whole thing, as
opposed to how do I change that version
of me to something that's more desirable?
Steve Wilson: Yeah.
And that's, I, I mean, I think I use that
actually, it's, it's funny you say that.
Cause I use that term, um, essentially
in my classes, cause I, so for those
that are listening, like I, uh, I'm
in charge of the strength and strength
and conditioning program at my school.
And so in 2023, it's a, it's a very
challenging time to be a teacher because
there's a lot of fear around triggering.
Um, Whether it's body shame, whether
it's nutritional habits, whether
it's disordered eating, those
are all incredibly real things.
I'm, I, we can talk a lot about that
as I've seen many cases of that over
my career, but I just tell the kids on
literally day one, I'm like, who you
are sitting here right now is perfect.
But I believe that in every single one
of us, there's a version of us that
exists that we want to try and see.
And whether that's a physical
version of yourself, an emotional
version of yourself, whether it's a
combination of all of those things,
my job is to help you find the very
healthiest version of yourself.
And what I get is buy in, um, pretty
quickly from kids because that thought
of there being a version of themselves
that they would like to see and my
ability to support that, that's an
exciting thought because a lot of
kids get to me and they already are
feeling like who they are isn't okay.
For whatever reason, whether it's
how they look, whether it's their
body shape, their body type, whether
it's what people have said to them.
I mean, my daughter is a, she's
an interesting little critter,
so she's a, she's on the gifted
spectrum, um, which when you're 10
years old, giftedness is not a gift.
Like she feels, she feels the
world, um, incredibly, she feels
everything about the world.
And that includes judgment of others.
Like when people judge her for her
challenges, um, that cuts deep and you
know what, this is four years ago now,
she wore snow pants to school one day
and this kid told her she looked fat
and she remembers that to this day.
Like to get her into snow pants,
to go out into the winter,
she still struggles with that.
She'll probably
Travis Bader: remember
it the rest of her life.
She will.
And it's funny how we, especially
at that young age, how those
Steve Wilson: things will stick.
Right.
And we have a very, very open
communication line in our home.
So our, our kind of rule at home is you're
never in trouble if you tell the truth.
Agreed.
There might be consequences.
Same rule in our house.
Yeah.
And so when she came home and told
us that, I was so grateful for
that because how many parents.
Have, don't know things like that, that
have happened to their sons or daughters.
And it's a real problem because if you
sit with that for years, then what does
the, what the only option for something,
a negative experience like that, the
only option for it is to perseverate and
turn into something negative potentially.
Now, one of my worries too, is that,
um, and if you ask kids this, they'll
say, how many, who, tell me a time when
an adult has told you to toughen up
or to get gritty or to be resilient.
Cowboy.
Yep.
We say it all the time.
The difference is, is that.
A lot of kids, nobody's
ever shown them how.
Most haven't.
Yeah.
And that's where, you know,
I'm super grateful for my dad.
My dad's the hardest
working man I've ever met.
Um, we come from a very industrious
background, like, uh, I'm not sure
if you've ever heard of Minstrel
Island, but, uh, up north of Sayward,
um, my dad grew up on a float camp,
my dad's house floated and they
just towed it up and down the coast.
And wherever there was timber contracts,
that's where they tied the town.
And literally my dad like wrote a skiff to
school because there was a floating school
house that all the community kids went to.
My mom grew up in a logging community
called Kokish and my grandma was raising
six kids on her own, running the camp
kitchen and her husband was out logging.
Right.
So I come from hardwood, like.
Like, like sturdy stock.
Um, my dad's not, Bob, if you're
listening to this, I'm sorry, you're
not the most emotionally intelligent
fella I've come across, but I remember
my dad always teaching me how to
toughen up, but it wasn't, he just,
he wouldn't just say toughen up.
He would show me what that meant.
And I'm super grateful for that because
I think a lot of my resolve or a lot
of my resilience or my grit comes
from it being role modeled to me.
And so I wonder how many kids have
that experience, that same experience.
I'd say a lot don't.
I, I, I agree.
And I think that that's as, like I
said, as, as I age in particular,
and as I'm parenting, I'm like, my
passion about my work is transitioning
towards the adults that I encounter,
um, because I really feel like.
They have a responsibility to their
kids, to be good role models and
to, to show, not just say toughen
up, but demonstrate what that means.
Travis Bader: So what does it mean?
How do they show that?
By working on themselves.
In, in what, in what respect?
Listening to self help books in
a way that their kids can see
them doing the same thing by.
Steve Wilson: So, so I really, I
really ascribed to you like a, what I
call a mind, body, spirit philosophy.
So when we talk about our
mind, we're talking about
our mental, emotional health.
When we talk about our body are,
I'm talking about, does it give you
access to the things you love or
the things you're curious about?
And then when I talk about spirit,
it's not a religious context at all.
If, if you have a faith
system in your life that works
for you, awesome, terrific.
But when I speak about spirit,
it's how you feel about self
and how you feel about others.
And so when, when I encounter parents
and, and some parents are far more
open to conversation than others,
for sure, especially when they're
coming in to have hard conversations
about kids, like they're generally
on their own level of guard.
Um, but I just ask them, I'm like, are you
working on your mind, body, and spirit?
And then if they even
say, what does that mean?
Like you'll often get a terrorist
reaction and it'll just be like, no,
I'm talking about, are you working on
your mental, emotional health yourself?
Is your body capable of doing
what you're passionate about?
Or at least, or is it capable of
doing what you're curious about?
And are you showing that to your sons or
daughters or critters, whatever they have?
And is your spirit, how do you feel about
yourself and how do you feel about others?
Now, those aren't conversations I
can really dive into with depth with
adults, because that's not really my.
My role, because I'm
working with their kids.
But if I can at least open the door to
that conversation, then how can that
not create a bridge between them and
the youth that they're encountering?
Travis Bader: Do you ever have parents
come back and say, mind your own business?
Steve Wilson: A couple of times
I've had, but my experience has
generally been more, um, not think
it's not thankfulness, but it's like.
I didn't know this was
going on with my kiddo.
Like I'll get an email saying my kid, I
now understand this about them and I'm
not expecting a thank you because what
I've done is I've opened a challenging
door for them and who would thank
somebody for opening a challenging door.
But what I'm hopeful for
is that over enough time,
there's enough reflection and.
That person will at least
understand what I was trying to do.
And that's why I actually try to teach
the kids how to interact with their
parents, because that has more success
than me trying to talk to the parents.
I
Travis Bader: really,
really like that approach.
It sounds like you and I are
on a very similar wavelength in
dealing with kids and others.
I, I have to wonder though.
Yeah.
If I were to go back 20 something
years, 30, how old am I now?
45.
So whatever it would be, 30 years to
get into high school and you were where
you are at your stage in life right now.
I wonder what kind of impact
you would have had on me.
Like I got, I went to, I think five
different high schools, a couple of
different elementary schools, moved
around a lot, not by my own choice.
Yeah.
Um, kicked out of a few
places, getting in trouble.
And that interaction, there's
a very oppositional sort of
mentality, us against them sort
of mentality that, uh, that I had.
And I, I remember one school I'd
made, I always loved puzzles, right.
And I loved, I learned how
to pick locks in grade four.
I love electronic locks.
I love physical locks that threatens
people's sense of security, right.
Yeah.
And, um, it was a, uh, it was St.
Thomas Moore, which is a private school
and the, the brothers who lived upstairs.
I remember, uh, they said, you know,
cause I wouldn't, I ended up selling a
few of these keys and, um, I wouldn't
rat out the people I sold them to.
And they said, they said, well.
Had you told us, then you would still
be going to the school here, but
this us against them oppositional
attitude that you seem to possess,
we can't have that and see you later.
Right.
Yeah.
I have to wonder, uh, how you
would reach and get through to
somebody that, uh, like that, who's,
um, who's not looking for help.
Yeah.
Who's, uh, not harming
outwardly, but definitely on a
path that's sub it's counter.
Steve Wilson: Yeah, yeah, honestly,
I feel like I would have found
a way for you to be useful.
I would have taken your, I would
have taken your intrigue and I would
have taken your, your curiosity and I
would have taken your, your skillset.
Cause that like to teach yourself
to do that is an incredible skill.
And I would have found a way to try
and channel that and make that useful.
Um, I also would have slow played you.
I wouldn't have bulldogged you.
I've, I've yet to find a kid where
bulldogging it actually works.
And by bulldogging, what I mean is
getting in your face, um, Trying to
impose some sort of will or change
on you that, that just doesn't work.
No, because
Travis Bader: they will, they will
outwill you any day of the week.
Well, pure obstinance is stubborn.
Steve Wilson: And how many
times have I pushed back?
Right.
How many things have
I pushed back against?
Because I was like, no, I'm
never going to let you beat me.
And it's not about beating.
It's about, it's about trying to bring.
The impressive things that you do
possess out, because if you start to
feel good about the things you can
do, then how can you not start to
feel better about yourself overall?
It's about creating value for somebody.
Everybody listening right now has value.
Everybody.
I don't care what kind of funk you're in.
I don't care where you're stuck.
Find some way to express and have
your value be useful because we all
can bring something to the table.
Every single one of us, every
single day has the opportunity
to be useful to this world.
Travis Bader: That's a very
difficult prospect when you have
what, 30 kids, 40 kids in one class.
Yeah.
To be able to dedicate that time
and attention to an individual.
Yeah.
How do you do that?
Like there's, there's obviously
a limit to the amount of, uh,
that you're able to reach.
And there's some that
you're going to have to say.
If I put all my time into you, that means
I can't put the time into the others.
So
Steve Wilson: what I try to do is
try and foster enough community in
the room that the room will help take
care of those people alongside me.
That's, um, and I should
break that down a little bit.
I have definite allies in my,
in, in every one of my classes.
Where I've got a really like strong
student and I don't being strong
by their ability to do something.
I mean, strong character, strong level
of integrity, strong level of compassion.
I really feel like too, it's
important to define the difference
between empathy and compassion.
Empathy is a feeling,
compassion is action.
So it starts with empathy because
if somebody can feel that I, or
one of their colleagues or peers
is trying to come alongside them
just to feel what they feel.
There's safety in that.
There's a sense of safety in that.
And that's where, you know, I've had kids
where I've literally not said anything
to them in the first month of school.
Like I acknowledge them.
Hey, good to see you.
I'm glad you're here.
Always.
And I always give high fives at the door.
Like every kid gets a high five
on the way in and on the way out.
Um, even if you hate
them, even if I hate them.
Yep.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And there's, and I'll be,
I'll be truthful with you.
There's kids I've, I've been glad
to see go through the door because
I have put my best into them.
Um, it's a tough one because it generally,
those are the kids you hear from in
their early twenties, like I'll get
a Facebook message or I'll get like
a, uh, something left at the school.
Um, I got one not too long ago where I
just got this message and the kid just
messaged me and it's like, you were right.
Can, can I read you something?
Travis Bader: Sure.
Of course.
I got this thing here.
It says, uh, in the handwriting, I
hate to say it's terrible, but it's
better than mine or the printing,
man, I'm just going to jump into it.
There are very few people that I credit
with not only being the reason I finished
high school, but also the reason I'm still
alive and you're one of those people.
I'm not sure that you realize
what a profound effect you've had
on me, but I really need you to.
You need you to know and know
Steve Wilson: why.
Yeah.
That one was, uh, I've got a rebuttal too.
I'm going to show you
one too, but that, yeah.
And that kid who I spoke about, um, it
was one that was a tough one because
he was, he was a tough kid to like,
and what happened was, is in his
early, um, in the early part of his.
High school experience with me.
He wasn't attending, he
wasn't handing in any work.
He wasn't really a student by any metric.
Um, but what he was, was he was just
this kind of quirky kid that, and
honestly, the bridge was a band t shirt,
like he had a t shirt on of a band that
he liked and I grew up a punk, right?
So like, I mean, and if you
look at the community of punks.
That we all came up together, it was
a bit of anti establishment, anti
authority, you know, you're moshing
and you're raging against the machine
as it were, but he and I had that.
And all of a sudden that just
kind of opened this little door.
Right.
And it was like, Hey
man, you like that band?
I like that band too.
Just let me know if there's anything that
you need, you know, and next thing you
know, he needed a spot to be a student
aid because he just needed a credit.
And I'll be honest, this is going to,
whew, I'm going to lob this one out there.
High school isn't for everybody.
Oh, it wasn't for me.
High school isn't for every kid.
And, and unfortunately the confines of
the box that we have to live and work
within, uh, in terms of education, um,
really is limiting for some kids and
this kid had to stay within the box
because I believe every kid nowadays
in 2023, you at least have to graduate.
So you give yourself opportunity to.
Step into something, you know, the
days of, of leaving school to go
work at the mill or the days of
leaving school to get into a trade.
Those days are what I believe to be gone.
Like you have to have some basic level
of education to be hired by HR with,
with almost every company nowadays.
So in a lot of ways, we're, my job
is just to help kids get across the
stage and get out, get out the door.
And if that means they have a
student aid block with me that I
just kind of give them a space to
be, what happens is it builds value.
Cause now all of a sudden I'm empowering
them to have some influence over
somebody else, even though they have had
nobody in positively influencing them.
Or it's a case of maybe I teach the,
I currently have a situation that is
a very challenging one, but I teach
this kid in three classes because
the admin and I spoke and I'm like,
look, just give this kid to me.
And we'll get him, we'll get him where
he needs to go to get out into the
world, into a trades program or a work
program where he will start to find
some value, but the education system,
if he doesn't have success in it,
he won't even have that opportunity.
How many
Travis Bader: other
teachers think this way?
Steve Wilson: Uh, there's a handful of us.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
When you say handful of us, is that in
your school or is that in the province?
Steve Wilson: That's tough.
So, so I, I'm an incredibly big school.
We have 2, 200 kids in our building.
Uh, we have 170 staff.
And if I had to guess, I would say
there's 15, 16 of us, pardon me, that
are willing to bend over backwards to
kind of help kids navigate the system.
So
Travis Bader: they say the, you need
at least three people in your life.
You need someone who's been there,
done that in a way that you're
aspiring to be there, a mentor,
you need somebody to mentor you.
You need a peer, someone who's
an equal, who can celebrate your
wins and be there beside you.
And, and then you need a mentee,
someone who you can pass that on to.
And that's, they say the, you need
these three people and you reached out
because you wanted to be the mentor to
some new teachers and the school says.
Uh, you're a little too far
outside this box for us.
Yeah.
Like there is an establishment that is
in place that, you know, my personal
opinion, I think the traditional school
system is a dead structure and that
might not be the most, um, uh, well
received thing given the audience that
I'm, I'm speaking to, but the, um.
The way that we teach people and the,
the idea behind, uh, segregating people
based on age groups into different
classes and doubling down on the areas
where they're deficient, as opposed to
doubling down on the areas where they're.
Uh, showing proficiency, like
there's a lot of things I
think would require changing.
All of it's going to take
a massive overhaul from,
Steve Wilson: uh.
It is.
Yeah.
And that, that, so I don't, I'm not, I'm
not a, I'm a zero believer in excuses.
I don't believe in excuses.
I believe in barriers and
barriers can be overcome.
But it requires tremendous
amounts of work.
Um, and, and excuse is dismissive.
Sure.
And so when we dismiss people or notions
or ideologies or beliefs or whatever
it is, when we dismiss them, it, it,
it, it re it robs the value of it.
Totally.
And so some, a kid having a creative
solution, um, is if we dismiss that, not
only are we devaluing the person with the
idea, but we're telling them not only was
your idea no good, but neither are you.
If that person hasn't been raised
with resilience or grit or, or a level
of, um, self worth, like imagine some
of our most profound ideas, whether
it's creating silver core, whether
it's, uh, stepping onto a Ted stage to
speak with like the purest intention
that I had, I gave it on that day.
And if somebody was hard about that
idea or hard about a business practice
or hard about a belief system or.
Whatever, like if you don't have a level
of resolve and grit within yourself to
take that criticism, then that can be
debilitating because you hung it out there
and somebody, not only did they not accept
it, they slapped it back in your face.
And if you can't sit in the pocket
with that, then that can be, that
can be debilitating to a person.
Travis Bader: Well, what does, uh, George,
General George Patton say, Peyton, Patton?
Patton.
Patton.
Um, he says, uh, don't tell
somebody how to do something.
Tell them what you'd like to see.
Uh, accomplished and let them
surprise you with the results.
Yeah.
And I think when you look at the
traditional school system, there's a
lot of, this is how it has to happen.
And you know, no, not everyone's
going to be an entrepreneur.
Not everyone's going to be
an outside the box thinker.
Not every, like we, we all have
different roles and it's, they're all
very important that we have to play.
We need the people who are
going to push these boundaries.
We need the people who are going to.
Uh, pull those pushers back because
unfettered access to pushing can lead
to some pretty, uh, yeah, difficult,
Steve Wilson: some pretty unhealthy stuff.
Travis Bader: But I like your approach,
you know, just cause they have a, uh, a
unique way of resolving the situation.
And I tell that to all the staff
that we have the same thing.
And I, I use that quote and I say, I only
have two caveats if you're surprising
me with the results, they need to be
legal and they need to be ethical, right?
If we can keep within that
framework, we're golden.
Steve Wilson: Well, and I think
that's important too, cause what
it speaks to is it speaks to a root
and a base, like a solid base of
ethics or integrity or character.
Right.
And I wonder how many of our youth.
And how many people listening, like
can truly speak and, and, and like,
tell somebody, what is their base?
Like, what do they believe in
like on a day to day basis?
Most can't, most adults can't.
And I think that when we're making
decisions of particular around
our kids and, and around, um.
Challenging topics or
conversations, right?
Like I have a checklist, it
just checks against my base.
Like I constantly am running checklists.
Like, does this work against who I am?
Am I going to get involved with this?
And I also, I think that there's a
lot of courage and a lot of, a lot
to be said for saying no to things.
Like I have firmly learned how
to say no in the last 10 years.
And you asked earlier about, um, or
had mentioned earlier about the idea of
like compassion fatigue or like, yes,
I, I have healthy boundaries for myself.
And is that hard to set?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Because what happens is
there's judgment about that.
So, you know, I've been involved
in all level of extracurricular
activities, um, coming up and, and
we can speak about the outdoor ed
programs and the backpacking programs.
Cause those.
I can't believe we haven't got that.
I know, I know.
And it's, but that's the richest stuff
that the richest experiences I've had.
But you know, when I had my kids of
my own, it's all of a sudden now I
have a different responsibility cause
I have to be there for my family
as much as other people's families.
And, and, and that became a time
where I had to step away from that
program for a couple of years, because
just my hands were needed at home.
And, and I have a philosophy about
how and who I want my kids to be,
um, in terms of their, their, their
solid base and then who they blossom
into after that's just a win.
Right.
And I can't wait to see it
and I can't wait to watch it.
I like,
Travis Bader: I really like that approach.
Yeah.
And I've, I mentioned this on the
podcast before, but I remember I
caught heat from my wife when I was
like, we put a business plan together.
For a business.
I mean, it all goes sideways a second
that the, the rubber hits the road, but
you have that framework that at least
you can keep aligning and you got that
North star that you're working towards.
What's our business plan for the family?
What's our business plan for the kids?
And she's like, that's heartless.
I was like, I.
I think it'd be heartless to send the
ship out without any sort of navigation,
Steve Wilson: right?
A hundred percent, a hundred percent.
And any of us that are in the mix
doing the job, like any of you parents
that are struggling, um, parenting
is only hard when you're good at it.
Right.
Cause you're in the mix and it's dirty
and it's ugly and it's messy and we
blow it every single day, but it's.
That's when you're doing the job,
that's the work, like it's, it's not,
cause there's no playbook for it.
Stacey and my wife's name is Stacey.
And I love you, hon.
Um, she and I ask each other regularly,
like, where's the playbook for this?
Cause there isn't one.
And we've needed one
with these two kids of
Travis Bader: ours.
I want to, I just want to make
an observation and you can tell
me if I'm off base or on base.
But one thing that I've noticed, and
maybe it was from my own, uh, us against
them sort of mentality going through
high school, going through whatever,
um, we get into these different roles,
parent, child, teacher, student, right.
And there's a great divide.
And I think one of the best things
that, um, I try to show my children.
Yeah.
Is that there really isn't a hell of
a lot of difference between child and
adult, other than some learned experiences
in between, but we all have fears.
We all have, uh, uh, different, different
issues that are going on and not to
try and hide that and be this gloriful
all being I've got it all perfected.
Do you, I'm getting the sense that you
take that approach with your students,
like, obviously we're not their friend.
I'm not my kid's friends.
Yeah.
I'm their parent, but it doesn't mean
I can't show that there's levels of
difficulties that we still have to work
through and that their opinion in working
through some of these things, whether it's
a limited capacity or larger capacity is.
Considered and, uh, and, and value.
Do you take that approach?
I think
Steve Wilson: it's critical.
I think you, I think you
have to live that way.
You have to fail in front of your kids.
You must, because how are you
going to give them permission to
fail if you don't fail yourself?
I agree.
How are you going to, and, and I
have a, and you know, maybe it's a
bit criticized, but like I have a
very transparent relationship with
my son and, and see, I'm a guy who's
never taken my chips off the table.
You know, I've been
riding mountain bikes for.
For 23 years, I raced mountain bikes for
a chunk of years, and I've been coaching
mountain biking for the last 22 years,
every summer, that's my summer job.
And my son has seen me come home broken.
He's seen me come home frustrated, you
know, but what we do is we talk about
the failure, dad, why are you frustrated?
Well, I didn't ride very well, or
I missed this line, or I didn't
corner the way I wanted to corner.
I didn't feel like I
communicated effectively.
And we talk about that on the regular
and you know, he's very afraid of
failure, my boy, because he puts
a lot of pressure on himself.
And, and I wonder, does that come from me?
Because, you know, I, we speak openly
about expectations and we speak
openly about, about setting goals.
And I think that that's
important stuff to speak about.
Um, he knows at the end
of the day, I love him.
And he knows at the end of the day
that if he does his work and tries
his best and comes up short, that
that's the best way to spend a
Travis Bader: day.
Do you find that the, uh, the fear of
failure is something that's, um, growing?
Steve Wilson: Profound.
Okay.
It is profound amongst, um, amongst
our teen youth in particular.
Um, the, the alarming amount of
pressure that they put on themselves.
And I want to be really careful here.
Um, uh, there's a very, an educational
thinker named Tom Schimmer.
He said that stress and anxiety are
what we feel when we don't have tools.
Pressure is what we feel when we do
have tools and pressure is a good thing.
Yes.
And for all of our listeners out there,
like it's, if you have, if you teach
your kids anything, it's teach them
to use the tools that are around them.
And by tools, I mean, mentorship,
friendship, counseling.
Um, putting themselves in leadership
opportunities to, to work with others.
Like all of those things give you
tools to handle pressure, right?
Cause what's happening is, is we have
this within the walls of our buildings.
And, and this could be quite a contrary
thing to say, and I'm not meaning
to be, but we have people that are
wilting under the pressure, right?
Um, you know, the word stress
is, uh, is a very real word.
Uh, the word anxiety is an incredibly
real word, but those words are
used when they're diagnosed.
So when somebody says, I have anxiety.
And it's not medically diagnosed
through a series of, of, um, testing
procedures with, with whether it's a
psychologist or healthcare professional,
they just say, I have anxiety.
They don't do what they have
is they have anxious feelings.
I love that.
And anxious feelings
are incredibly normal.
We all have them.
Yes.
I was anxious coming in here.
But I also have tools to mitigate, to
mitigate those anxious feelings, whether
it's around a box breathing in the
truck before I came in, whether it's
positive self talk, whether it's a little
visualization about how I wanted this to
go, this experience I'm having right now.
Of course, I had anxious feelings.
Is this going the way that you hoped?
Yeah.
I can't believe we haven't talked
about hunting or the outdoors yet,
but we will, we will for sure.
So it, um, And I really, I really, and
so I also have a big sign in my gym that
says it's, it's, it says ride or die.
And I spoke about it in
the Ted talk as well.
Right.
And it is this ride or die
philosophy of pushing your
chips in the middle every day.
Like if you don't push your chips
in, how can you ever know that you
were either successful or you weren't
like, how can you know you it's
impossible because you didn't try.
And so putting yourselves in
stressful situations or putting
yourselves in anxious situations.
It's, it's critical if, especially
if you have the mentorship around
you to help you navigate it.
Right.
And that's, and that's just it.
Cause if you don't know who your
tools are, if you don't know what
your tools are, then you will
continue to avoid the pressure.
Travis Bader: The.
The thought of, uh, avoiding
failure and it's a prevalent one.
And I see it in people a fair bit.
A hundred percent.
I remember, uh, you know, I look at
failures as stepping stones to success.
I tell the staff, I say, look at,
if you fail, I'm okay with that.
Yeah.
That means that you're pushing and
you're trying and you're doing something.
You took a chance.
Right.
If you keep making the same
mistakes over and over again,
we're going to have a conversation.
We're going to see how we can fix this.
Right.
But I don't expect you guys to be
perfect, but if we want to really
excel, you need to be able to fail.
And you know, the, the idea
of having these, um, you go to
the gym, you want to be strong?
Well, you're gonna have to lift weight.
You're going to have to have
this adversity and you're going
to come out of it stronger.
And if we look at failure,
this is the same way.
This is awesome.
I failed.
Yeah.
Guess what did I learn out of it?
Like it sucked.
Don't get me wrong, but what did I learn?
How can I be better?
And how can I mitigate that?
Cause we'll keep having the same
failures and same problems until we,
till we square that, I think it was
EH Chapin who said out of suffering
have emerged the strongest souls.
The most massive characters are seared.
With scars and there is a reason just,
and then my ADHD brain jumping around
here a little bit, but you probably,
you may have probably already picked
up on the reason why we haven't
talked about the outdoor stuff yet.
And that's because I'm trying
to disrupt your patterns of
what you're going through.
Cause I could tell before you even
came in here that you're well prepared.
You have all of these
great things and I'm.
I know there's some great points that
regardless of how much I disrupt,
we're still going to get to it.
But I, I like to keep
Steve Wilson: chipping
away, keep chipping away.
We can go all day.
Travis Bader: Awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like to just get a little bit,
um, to the heart of a few of
these things that, uh, that move
you and the why and the why you.
Uh, art, like you are,
like, what was that?
You had a mentor in your life.
Obviously your father was a big one for.
Steve Wilson: Yeah.
My father was for sure.
Um, it's interesting.
Cause somebody asked me recently, they're
like, they're like, how did you like,
how did you get to be who you are?
And it was, it was quite an interesting
question because I wasn't able
to respond with just one thing.
Like my life has just been a real
collection of experiences that I've
taken the time to reflect upon.
And I think that it's.
All of these things we're
speaking about take time, right?
Like the gym is a, is a great example.
Like I, when I work with a new batch of
kids in the gym, like I love to squat
and it's, you get under the bar, it is
the most true form of work that there is.
Cause the bar goes down
and the bar goes up.
And it's really simple.
Um, but it takes a tremendous amount of
effort and a tremendous amount of work.
Um, there's also, uh, there's
a lady named Karen Hume.
She's an educational writer and she has
this concept of start where they are.
Okay.
And so our circle of influence
versus our circle of concern.
If our circle of concern is bigger than
our circle of influence, then our ability
to make progress is very, very limited.
So like, Oh, I don't have
the right gym clothes.
Or, Oh, I don't have the right music in my
playlist is a very popular one for kids.
Really?
Oh yes.
And, and I'm like, that's nonsense.
And I say it more delicately than that.
Of course.
Of course.
But if what they are is making
excuses, their circle of concern
is so big that it's limiting their
influence even over their own body.
So I, I make the circle of influence
bigger than the circle of concern.
You can squat in your socks.
I don't care.
Yeah.
I don't care if you start with that
plastic piece of pipe, you put it on your
back and you execute with precision on
the skills that you need to do it well.
And all of a sudden that pipe,
that plastic pipe becomes a
metal piece of, of conduit.
We have some of that.
And then all of a sudden it becomes
a trainer bar and then it becomes a
35 pound bar and then a 45 next thing
you know, you got plates, right?
But it, you, what the, what I
would love people to understand
is you can't rush anything.
If you want, if you want to get better
at anything, including yourself, it takes
patience and a willingness to do the work.
Travis Bader: I think that we are
so inundated with information and
everything is just snap of the fingers.
It's right there in front of you.
That the idea of patience is just
kind of going out the window.
There's.
People who preach
patience, Gary Vaynerchuk.
He's one of these social media
guys who he's like, you got time.
He's like, well, you're 50.
You got time.
I didn't start my, my, this
business that got rolling until
like my forties or whatever he was.
Idea of patience.
Um, is that something that
you try and instill in people?
Is that something that you're finding
is a, a difficult thing to overcome?
I try
Steve Wilson: to foster it
as best I can, by example.
So like I, I, in my gym, I have a rule.
I will never ask you to
do what I won't do myself.
And so, well, and I, I, and I think it's
the only way we can live, like whether
it's with our kids, whether it's as
a manager of an owner of a business,
whether it's whatever, I will show you
what I need to be done and we will,
not only will I show you, we will do it
together through the good and the bad.
Like I have kids, anchor kids that I go
to in my classes that I'll like literally
walk over and fist bump them and be like,
I need you to drag me through this today.
Like I haven't got it and I just need
you to give me some of your energy.
I need you to help pull me through this.
And those kids will like, like mid,
so we do intervals on Thursdays.
Those are interval workouts.
Like I have a kid that'll come
over and discreetly just say,
Wilson, get it together, like,
let's go to work if I'm struggling,
you know, cause some days I do.
Like this virus that I, that
I've picked up and been trying
to get over is a bit of a doozy.
And so I have a, I should also say I
have a class set of kids that I teach
that operates at 7 30 in the morning.
It's outside the timetable.
Kids that wanted to have an
opportunity to have strength in
their program, but they didn't have
the class space in their schedule.
So we go Tuesdays and Thursdays, 7.
30 in the morning until 8.
30.
Those are tough, tough mornings.
And I will never get a TOC or a substitute
teacher to cover that class if I'm sick.
Right.
So this last week I dragged my carcass
out of bed two days in a row, or the
two, sorry, the Tuesday and the Thursday
where I walked in and I was walking dead.
Yeah.
We were supposed to record this last week.
That's right.
Not happening, not happening,
but I made it in for that.
But how
Travis Bader: empowering is that for the.
Kid to say, look at, I'm
respected and I'm valued enough.
My opinion is I can actually
make an effect on this teacher.
Steve Wilson: Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, and I think it has to be that
way because who am I to be, who am
I to be an authority over anybody?
I'd rather be an authoritative
figure with somebody.
Yes.
Because I have maybe some wisdom
or some experience, or I've, I've
lived enough life that I can.
I can say, Hey, I've been there kid.
Like I get it.
I know where you're at, but here's
how, here's what I can offer
you to make this go easier or
better, or to help you develop.
And it's interesting because the
other thing I see a tremendous
amount of that I'd like to
speak a little bit about is ego.
Ego is an incredibly toxic thing and
it is literally the barrier to learning
when people think they know better.
That is, that is the barrier.
If we, if we can't overcome people's
egos or if people can't overcome
their own for whatever their reasons,
that is the barrier to their learning
and their, and their success.
And by success, whatever metric
that, that means to them.
Um, I've got a student that I've
been slow playing since September
who thinks he knows everything
about strength and conditioning,
you know, and he's a strong kid.
Yeah.
He's a strong kid.
Is his technique.
Pretty solid it's proficient, but
what he is, is he's so stuck in his
ego that he can't hear the details
or the nuances that would take him
from proficient to like exceptional.
And he's stuck there.
And so one day I just walked up
beside him and he and I hadn't seen
eye to eye on what he was doing,
but I just walked up and I said,
dude, what are you so scared of?
Why are you so scared to listen?
I'm not scared.
And that's exactly what he gave me.
But I just walked away.
I just, I didn't engage.
I just let him sit with it.
And it was like, literally
like three classes.
And then he walked up to me and
he's like, you know, I'm not scared.
Right.
And I was like, you're not?
Well, that's funny.
Cause your behavior is
telling me otherwise.
So tell me what you are feeling.
And then, but it took that
patience to be able to wait
him out and let him come to me.
And now all of a sudden it was like,
okay, he's got a little injury he's
working with that I didn't know about.
And I was able to share with him.
So do I, you know, I've got like,
I'm a little banged up right now.
And it's like, but guess what?
You don't see me shirking the work.
I just adapt and overcome.
I'm a big believer in adapt and overcome.
Sure.
Whether it's your mental health, your
emotional health, your physical health,
whatever it is, you can, everybody
has the ability to adapt and overcome.
Travis Bader: If we take the
mindset that there is a solution
somewhere, we might not see it
right now, but there's a solution.
We just got to find it.
I found that to be a useful way
to find the adapt and overcoming.
You just play it backwards rather
than saying, I can't go forward
because I'm injured or this is hard.
You just work back and
say, here's the solution.
Here's the end result we want to get to.
What different branches do I have
that can get back to get there
and which one's going to be the
most advantageous one to do.
Yeah, just
Steve Wilson: reverse plan, just set,
set where you think you want to be and
start working backwards and then look
at what tools you have in your toolkit
to help you get those steps forward.
And if you have a mentor,
then that's great.
And coming, I mean, well, let's
come back to that for a second.
Cause you talked about mentorship and,
um, I'm, I couldn't be more grateful,
and I hope they do hear this podcast
at some point, but I've had, I've had
a handful of teachers, um, very early
in my career, that, like, literally
from my student teaching year, when I
walked in as a student teacher, I got
paired with, uh, what's called a sponsor
teacher, um, I had two of them and one of
them, I was actually his student in high
school in his first year of teaching.
So all these years later, he became my
sponsor teacher, which was an incredibly,
my life has always worked this way where
I've just been super open to life and life
puts really interesting people in my path.
And that's how the Ted thing came about.
But I had two sponsors.
That's how this came about.
It, well, it is, it, it absolutely is.
Right.
And when, right when I knew
when we actually were able
to shake hands and meet.
And I knew, I was like, yeah, this
is, this guy and I are supposed to,
our paths are supposed to cross.
And I've like, I've just
always been open to that.
And whether it's Seb, um, whether it's,
you know, even Matt coming back to
Matt for a second, like I walked in to
take my hunter safety course, my core
course, and Matt was my instructor
and what a crazy full circle that
was to walk in and have somebody I
taught all of a sudden be my teacher.
And now he's your mentor.
And now he's, and absolutely he is.
Yeah.
And I have so much to learn
and I feel like I know nothing.
Um, even though he says, take more
credit, I've like picked up some stuff,
but he's, yeah, and it's, and, and then
you bump into people that come into
your world and you're like, if your
heart's open to them and your mind is
open to it, there's mentors everywhere.
And then what you have to do is be
willing to actually try what they suggest.
And that's where ego coming back to this
idea of ego, like early in my career,
I thought I was lighting the world on
fire and I thought I was going to change
the world, my intention was there.
But to be entirely
honest, my skill wasn't.
And it took a great mentor
to come into my life.
And Grant, that's you, if
you're listening, he was able
to just show me the playbook.
And be able to, um, compassionately,
cause action, compassionately
tell me where I was lacking.
Like he was willing to say, Hey, you did
a good job, but I think this could have
gone better, or did you think about this?
And when you find somebody who
believes in you and that's what it
is, it feels like belief, right?
Like that's what a mentor does for you.
They make you feel believed in.
And then all of a sudden you'll go to war.
Absolutely.
With a mentor, I'd lay
in traffic for Grant.
I would.
And, and I'm very fortunate that I have
had the chance to tell him, that's how I
feel about, about his relationship with
me and, and what an impact it's had on me.
Um, and if you have people
in your life, tell them this.
That's a very
Travis Bader: important
Steve Wilson: point.
Like tell them, take the opportunity
to actually say, man, you've changed my
life, or I really value and appreciate
what you've brought to my life.
Cause I think there's a lot of folks
out there that have felt like they've
given and maybe not been appreciated.
Um, and that's a hard feeling to sit with
yourself, you know, and you asked earlier
about, about just the kids that I have
worked with that have been hard kids.
Um, it doesn't come right away, but
those kids always find a way to say it.
And then that is all of a sudden worth it.
Well, there's givers,
Travis Bader: there's
takers, there's matchers.
We've all seen that, uh, you know, the
givers will always be taken advantage of.
Yeah.
They're going to give more than they
tend to get, but they're also going to.
Excel further than what the
matchers and what the takers will.
Steve Wilson: And if the givers are
getting tired, I encourage them just
to really try and stick with it.
Like you're, you're doing the work and you
know, you are, it's just tiring at times.
And that's why it's like fostering
yourself, something that you care about
more than the work that you're doing.
Like, I think that's a
really important piece.
Like I deeply care about
hunting and I didn't expect
to deeply care about hunting.
Tell me that I do.
I'm
Travis Bader: glad we say we'd there.
Cause I was just about to as well.
Uh, tell me about this because now
you're in a, uh, educational system.
That hunting, uh, firearms, archery,
all of this thing, like I saw
on the, uh, the news yesterday.
So guy brought in some like
replicas musket that, and they did
a full lockdown, had the SWAT team
Steve Wilson: in there.
Our school, well, and I won't say
where or who, obviously for various
reasons, but our school was in that
exact situation a year ago where we
were on a, like a two hour lockdown
and I was messaging Seb from my room,
like your team is in the building.
And he's, and it was an interesting
text chain to say the least, but
yeah, it is a very polarizing topic.
Um, but I speak about it openly now.
Like, I feel like I've got enough
courage and enough background to have
a great conversation with whoever
wants to have the conversation.
And I always, I always lead
by saying we may not agree.
But we can have healthy conversation.
And so what happened with me with hunting
was I started teaching about food and
I started teaching about, about access
to food and where our food comes from.
Cause no matter what side of the equation
you land on, we all eat and the processed
foods that we're feeding our youth in
particular are not going to cut it.
There's food like substances.
And then there's real food.
And so what happened was, um, at the
time where I started teaching about
food, our daughter was also going
through a bunch of naturopathic testing.
She's got a super sensitive tummy and
our naturopath was just like, this
kiddo can not eat processed food.
If you're going to have,
and they, she needs protein.
So she actually asked, she's like, are
you, would you consider feeding your child
game meat versus meat out of the store?
And I was already very open.
To the idea of that.
Um, and then I, there's a movie,
a documentary that I've shown my
students called Eating Animals.
There's two documentaries I'll speak
to, Eating Animals and Kiss the Ground.
Um, Kiss the Ground, I believe
is still available on Netflix.
Eating Animals gets a bit tougher to
find cause it's a polarizing movie.
And what it is, it's just about
the meat industry in general and
the process of factory farming, um,
I was never okay with what I saw.
And the other piece to come back to a
little bit, maybe before that is this idea
that, you know, my mom and dad did grow up
very hardy, very coastal, very like salt
of the earth folks, um, but never hunted.
And it was a real interesting thing to
me, how that my dad never grew up hunting.
His brother hunted, uh, his father
hunted when was, when was necessary,
but it wasn't a part of their life.
They just did it here and
Travis Bader: there.
Well, was it your daughter's
diagnosis for game meat?
Was that what got you?
That
Steve Wilson: really was the impetus.
Yeah.
Because I was, and I've spent
a lot of time in the woods.
I've spent a lot of time in my backpack.
Um, but for whatever reason, I just
never engaged with this idea of hunting.
And then it always, and in the,
in, in the background, it's always
felt like a hole in my game.
And I like to be quite as well
rounded as individual as I can be.
So, you know, like my wilderness first
aid, um, even though it's, it's, it's
expired right now, but I can mean I've
used my wilderness first aid in critical
incidences and, and, and we can speak
a little bit about that if we want to,
but like, I felt like my wilderness game
was okay, but it was lacking that piece.
And then when all of a sudden I
knew I had to provide meat for
my daughter, it was game on.
I was like, I'm going to learn
this and I'm going to be successful
to provide for my family.
Travis Bader: Okay.
So for people, and you're a very
articulate individual, so I'd
love to hear this one from you.
Sure.
Um, for people who enjoy the outdoors,
they see the benefits, well, physical,
emotional, mental health benefits
of being in the outdoors, which
are, are massive, well documented.
Yeah.
Um, what was the difference
from being an outdoors person?
To being a person who now
hunts in the outdoors.
Steve Wilson: For me, if I'm being
entirely honest and transparent,
it's the primal nature of it.
It felt like it, when I was successful in
harvesting that 30 seconds after the first
deer that I was able to successfully bring
home was the most emotionally charged
30 seconds I've maybe ever experienced.
It was every human
emotion all at one time.
Really?
And it ranged from what did I just do?
Right.
Cause I am a lover of, of all critters.
I, I think that nature is one
of the most incredible things
that we have at our disposal.
Um, so it was like that initial,
like, Oh, what did I just
do to, did I do a good job?
And luckily I had Matt with me and Matt's
like, this is, that was as good as it gets
because we worked hard for it and we did
it with purpose and we did it with ethics.
And when I walked up on my animal, it was.
Pride is the word that I want to use.
It was, it was an overwhelming
feeling of like, I did it.
I've worked so hard.
I've done all the work.
I've, I've done the studying.
I've done the leg work.
I've, I've, I've learned
how to do this with purpose.
It wasn't luck.
Right.
We worked hard for it.
And then it was a matter of like, now it
is my sole purpose to honor this animal.
The best way that I can.
So I'm going to care for it.
I'm going to make sure the meat is
cared for as meticulously as possible.
And then I'm going to make
sure that my family enjoys.
And I did have a fear, um, that, you know,
the kids, cause my kids are sensitive
eaters, they're, they're quite fussy
that when I brought the critter home.
Um, which I had to bring it home
before it went to the butcher.
And I was worried that that was going
to not scare them, but unsettle them.
Um, but it didn't at all.
It was actually quite the opposite because
they had been a part of my experience.
My kids had known dad was studying for the
Corps and dad was buying hunting gear and
dad was learning and reading and listening
and looking at all things hunting because
I wanted to be a responsible hunter.
And so, you know, when we're,
when we're cutting the antlers
off, my daughter was holding them.
Travis Bader: What I think that does,
that's missing in society a fair bit
is it creates a deeper connection
between the concept of life and death
and death is such a closed doors
event and such an abstract thing
that perhaps it's part of the reason
that, uh, uh, value of life perhaps.
Isn't looked at in the same
way that maybe it once was.
Yeah.
Maybe people look and they say,
well, I don't know, death is
just something I see on TV.
Steve Wilson: Yeah.
I think that's a very, a very good
point because, um, without sharing
too many details, like being a new
hunter at that time, I wasn't aware
that you should give your animal a
little bit of time before you approach.
And so when I approached my animal,
it was in the process of, of expiring.
And that was, you know, I asked
Matt at that point, I was like.
Do you think it needs
another, another round?
And he just said, dude, he's
like, this is the process.
You've done your job.
You've done it well.
And I was actually in hindsight, I'm
grateful that I had that experience.
Cause I was able to witness
it myself and, and it made me.
There was a reverence there that, that
was like, I felt compassion, I felt
empathy and compassion in that moment.
And then that's where it almost like
kicked off my, my sense of duty.
Like I have a job now to make
sure I respect and honor this
the very best way that I can.
And that, that critter fed my family for
seven months, you know, and it really did.
And, and my daughter, it's interesting.
Cause when she eats.
Meat from the grocery store.
She'll often complain about her
stomach being sensitive and upset.
And that's because her microbiome is
quite, quite, she's got leaky gut, believe
it or not, at 10 years old already.
Um, and that's where the kiss the ground
documentary really comes into play.
Cause I learned so much about
the microbiome in our stomachs,
um, that when I brought home the
tenderloins and I cooked them up.
And my kids sat at that Island and gobbled
them up, like they were asking for more.
And then we did, you know,
deer tacos the very next night.
And it was like, all
of a sudden it was on.
And now my wife, even she's like, she's
like, I actually prefer the venison, the
ground venison that we use for everything.
That's like.
And then that filled me with this
sense of like, okay, it's on now.
Like, I'm going to do my very
best to make sure our freezer has
healthy, delicious quality meat
in it every season that I can.
And so it feels like a real
sense of pride for me to be
able to provide that for them.
Have your kids come hunting with you yet?
So I took my son on his first mountain
hunt this year and it was, um.
And keep in mind, I still
feel like I'm quite novice.
Like if I dropped it, if I was able
to drop an animal, you know, that
field dressing, if I had to do it all
by myself, I would get through it,
but I sure value having Matt or Dan
there or even better both of them.
Cause the packout we had on my doe
a couple of years ago was, was a,
we had a legitimate packout to do
and Dan was an absolute warrior.
And put half that critter
on his back on a day pack.
Cause we, yeah.
Good job, Dan.
Yeah, very much so.
Good job, Dan.
And this year I was super excited to
be able to bring my son, but also a bit
cautious too, because he is a sensitive
little guy and he knew that I hunted
and he knew our, what our experience
was from videos and photos and whatnot.
But when it actually came down to
it, putting him in the field with
me, um, we did talk very honestly
and very openly about like his fears.
And he said, dad, he's
like, what if I cry?
And I said, that's entirely okay.
I was like, we're taking a life if we're
successful and that is something to be
emotional about, but we're going to, we're
going to honor that the best way we can
by making sure that we do our jobs well.
And then next thing you know, he's
on a set of binos and he's spotting
deer faster and better than us.
That's right.
I love having the kids.
Yeah.
Right.
They're good at that.
It's incredible.
And so.
It was an interesting experience too,
because it tested, so we hunted one area
the one day, and then we were actually
hunting our way home and we checked out
this one zone and, you know, it was tough
country and we spotted a monster four
by and it was like, okay, we're going to
work, but then I have this decision as a
father now to make because Matt and Dan
are loading up packs and I'm getting my
pack and I'm excited, but I looked at Matt
and Dan and we're looking at the country
and we've seen enough ground together to
know this is not going to be a cakewalk.
Like we're going to
work hard for this one.
And I looked at my son's name is Gus.
And I said, Gus, I was
like, can you do this?
And he goes, dad, he's
like, I'm in, let's go.
And I was like, I know
you want to, but can you?
Cause I said, there's
real safety things here.
We have to consider if you, if
we get halfway up there and you
melt down or you can't get this
done, that's a tougher position.
Cause now we have to get back and
the other guys, and so he said,
no, dad, he's like, I can do this.
And so we went to work and it was
like a full blown, don't tell your
mom by the, by the time we were done,
because it was very steep terrain
and, and I couldn't have been more
proud of my guy because he persevered.
And yeah, did he have a meltdown?
For sure he had a meltdown, but that's
the moment that's when you do the
talking, that's when you give a hug.
But you say, we're going to cowboy up.
And here's what that means.
Like I don't, I very deliberately try not
to use expressions that I can't explain.
Like when I say cowboy up,
Gus, this is what that means.
We're going to walk for
the next 10 minutes.
We're going to set a timer.
We're just going to put our head down.
We're going to walk with purpose.
We're going to make sure
our feet are grounded.
We're going to make sure we're not
taking chances on where we step.
We're going to make deliberate
action for 10 minutes, then
we're going to take a breather.
And we're going to sit and we're
going to regroup and we're going
to have some water and you're
going to have half a granola bar.
And then we're going to set a
timer for another 10 minutes.
And then we're going to do that again,
because that's, because all of us need
to be able to give ourselves those little
breaks when the going is, is tough.
Right.
And next thing, you know, hour
and a half later, we're ridged
out and now we're glassing and
we're making a move on this buck.
And he gave us the slip cause that's
why he's a big wily old buck is cause
he walked it, walked out of our lives.
But what was interesting
to me was that we failed.
On the hunt.
And it was incredibly hard.
Like it was taxing and we get to
the truck and you know, there's high
fives cause we worked hard for it.
And, and what my worry was, was that
he was going to see that as failure
and not want to be involved again.
So we hit the road, we're driving back
out and he's asleep in four minutes.
He's literally laying like flat out
on the back of a bench seat and he
let him sleep for about 30, 40 minutes
and he pops up and he goes, dad, he
said, can we go again next weekend?
Those were his, those were his
words, not nothing that, yeah.
And so we did go again next weekend.
And that's where it's like, I think
we have the responsibility when we
turn somebody on to something, we got
to be able to execute for them or at
least create the opportunity for that.
And
Travis Bader: that's where
that resilience comes from.
There's a shared adversity.
When you have adversity and
you can frame it correctly.
Yeah.
And you know, we're not always
going to know that 10 minutes
is when we get to stop.
Right.
It's like that.
Can you, can you see the path?
You see where you got to go?
Yeah.
No.
Well, can you see your next step?
Yes.
Okay.
Then we're going to take that.
That's right.
And we're going to keep
taking that next step.
Eventually we'll know.
Yeah.
Things are going to change, right?
It might get worse, which
means at some point it will get
Steve Wilson: better.
But for every step of the worse, you
are building something, you're building
strength, you're building, you're, you're
building that grit people talk about.
And, and one thing that is, is
interesting, if anybody's listening
and they've had in like a relatively
profound experience, like don't
expect others to understand.
You know, cause Gus, we're driving home
and he, and you know, we go from that
intense experience, that mountain hunt
to him going to school the next day.
And he's like, dad, he's like, what do
I tell people about, about our hunt?
You don't.
Exactly.
And I said, son, I said, you have
it in your heart and you've got it
with Matt and Dan and I, and that's
a shared experience that we have.
Sure.
If somebody says, what'd
you do this weekend?
Can you tell them, oh, I went hunting?
Absolutely.
But don't try and explain it to
them cause they won't understand.
No.
And then what happens though, is if people
are asking or wanting others to understand
an experience and they don't, that can
feel defeating or deflating to them.
Sure.
Cause you try and qualify it.
That's right.
And there's some sort of validity
that comes with that and we don't need
that because you have it for yourself.
And I think that in the social media
world that we live in, it's like, if it
didn't go on Instagram, it didn't happen.
And that is such, it's heartbreaking to
me because how many people are missing
the opportunity to really enrich in their
lives because it didn't go on Instagram.
Like if it didn't go on
Insta, it didn't matter.
Of course it mattered.
It mattered to the three dudes
that you suffered with and it
mattered to that critter that you
pursued and it mattered to you.
And that's important, 12
year old to understand that
in the world we live in now.
It's a very complicated thing because
their validity and our son doesn't have
a phone, like I'm a bit of a zealot when
it comes to, when it comes to the tech
in our house, like everything's passcode
protected, everything's time limited.
Everything is, there's no
Snapchat, there's no Tik TOK.
There's none of that because how
else can he build an internal sense
of self and our daughter as well?
Um, if it's externally validated, right?
What mom and dad think is more
important than what your friends think.
Yeah.
What coach thinks is
more important than what.
Travis Bader: There's a book
a while ago, I think it was
called, hold on to your kids.
Okay.
Have you ever heard of that one?
I haven't, no.
Essentially, so I didn't read the
whole thing, ADHD kicked in and I
had somebody summarize it for me.
So that's, that's
Steve Wilson: me in reading as well.
That's me in reading as well.
Travis Bader: But, uh, essentially,
yeah, mom and dad are more
important than the peer group.
When you reach a certain age, naturally,
the way that they seem to, Evolve the peer
group becomes the most important thing.
And how do you, if the peer
groups are not always going
to be the healthiest thing for
Steve Wilson: them.
Absolutely not.
Travis Bader: So hunting in
the school system, back in the
eighties, uh, they took in British
Columbia, the core hunter education
program out of the school system.
And then they made hunter instructors,
they called them examiners.
They're not a teacher, but they
can examine, but they're the
ones that teach the course.
Oh, I never
Steve Wilson: thought of that.
Yeah.
They're core examiners.
Right.
Travis Bader: So that opens a
whole bunch of different loopholes
for, uh, for schools and such.
I've worked with the province right now.
We hold the contract for online hunter
education for BC and we hear the good and
the bad people say, oh, you can't learn
anything from online and people saying.
Uh, they get the best hunting
stories from me in person.
I think there's tons of value to
both and having a hybrid model
is, is a smart way to go at it.
I've also pushed, and I think this is
probably the first time I'm probably
going to vocalize it on, on the podcast.
And it's going to get some heat from the
other examiners of removing the firearms
portion from the hunter education course.
And the reason for that is it was created
back in the day when we didn't have
a federal firearms program in Canada.
So we borrowed from, uh, he,
uh, I, he, uh, from the States.
And it was basically a replication of
their program, which included firearms.
I would think that the biggest
obstacle in, in today's day and
age would be firearms in a school
system, even just talking about guns
or bringing in disabled firearms.
So if we can say, cause we don't.
We don't bring in a bow and arrow.
We don't bring in compound
bows and long bows.
And so, and then, and they're
not tested on that, but it's a
perfectly valid way of hunting.
If we can let the federal firearms
program deal with the firearms safety
training, because all the BC does is
they borrow from the, uh, from that now.
And concentrate the
hunter education program.
And it doesn't teach you how to hunt,
teach you about laws and ethics and animal
identification, all important things,
but it doesn't teach you how to hunt.
I think we'd have a much better chance of
getting hunter ed back into the school.
If, even if we just modularize these
components, outdoor survival, uh, animal
ID, um, maybe you've just keep the laws
as a separate add on they can do after.
What are your thoughts on that
as a professional educator?
Is there, are there legs to that?
I
Steve Wilson: absolutely there are.
And it's, it's like anything.
If we were to broaden our scope and look
at it as like a passion driven thing,
like, I think what you would, where I
would go with that as I would offer it,
I would find the opportunity to offer
it outside of a timetable or set thing.
Cause the spark starts a fire.
Like I really do believe that most
of the ideologies I've lived with
and worked with in the school system.
It's like, just get it going.
Just like a spark will start a fire.
So getting prepped for this, I, I.
I pulled all of, like I said, I pulled all
of my classes and it was like, how many
of you have had a hunting experience with
a mom, dad, caregiver, or grandparent?
And like 60 percent of the
hands in every one of my classes
went up, which was surprising.
That surprises me.
It is.
Yeah.
And then, so I said, how many of you
after that initial experience still
have a curiosity about hunting or
angling and conservation in general?
And I think that's a really important
piece to bring to the table too,
is that the idea of conservation,
I think needs to be more well.
Um, we live in an era of environmentalism
where I would love to see us transition
to the understanding of conservation
far more than environmentalism.
Totally.
Because we have to continue to take from
the planet and we are continuing to take
from our natural resources every day, but
how do we take responsibly and sustainably
and ethically, that conversation is
a much more functional conversation.
It's much less emotional.
Um.
And I think that we live in this
emotionally knee jerk reaction situation
currently, like that's where the
pendulum around education is swung.
It's like, this is right or wrong.
Right.
We should teach this or
we shouldn't teach this.
Well, we know that that's, that
that's never going to work because
there's every layer of gray in
between those black and white worlds.
Right.
And so when we think about mental,
emotional health, like that is the
grayest area that there is, cause there
is no black and white answer to it.
So when we think about conservation, I
love the idea of conservation because it
opens doors to conversation about how to
keep this planet moving forward for future
generations, but it's also acknowledging
the fact that progress comes at a cost.
Right.
And so when we think about hunter
education and we think about bringing
that program in, I think, cause when
I, and it's just, you know, I did pull
the classes and I said, how many of
you would be, if I could offer you the
opportunity to get your hunter education
safety course, how many of you would
be interested in taking that through
while, Oh, I almost said the school name.
If I, if, if, if I could offer that
through the school, how many of
you would be interested and like.
80 percent of the hands went up because I
think there's an, there's a hunger for it.
There isn't a, there isn't, uh, a desire
for people to learn about the outdoors.
I think there's a desire for people to
understand their connectedness to nature.
I think
Travis Bader: that's, I think
that's the biggest part of it.
And I think in the world where
we're so heavily connected, I'm
going to use my air quotes here.
We've never been so disconnected.
We've never been so disconnected from
each other, from our natural environment.
And I think more than anything,
I think that's why podcasts are
popular and why people listen to
them because they're lacking these
conversations in their real life.
And they able to sit down and listen
to people and be like, I, I like that.
I've, I've got something that I can now
use as a template to, to work forward.
Yeah.
Um, Yeah, no, I think there's,
there's a hell of a lot of
value to the connection aspect
Steve Wilson: of that.
For sure.
There's a whole community waiting for
people out there around, like, so if, and
the thing too, is if you have a curiosity,
feed it, like feed your curiosity.
If you're curious about hunting,
start asking around, Hey.
Do you hunt by chance?
Like I do this often in the high school
because hunting is, is not something that
is super well thought of or regarded,
but you see a kid walking through the
hallway with the first light hat on.
Right.
And there's this kid.
I've never met him before.
And I just looked at him.
I just gave him the nod and he nodded
back and I was like, first light, eh?
And he's like, yep.
I said, you hunt with your pop.
And he's like, yeah,
he's like, do you hunt?
I'm like, I do.
And all of a sudden now,
boom, we've got a connection.
And I'll, I'm going to make a judgment
statement and I probably shouldn't,
but that kid in particular doesn't
seem super connected in our building.
Sure.
You know, cause he's wearing
camouflage and he's, he's, and maybe
Travis Bader: there's a stigma
associated with it and some people wear.
Everyone else thinks I'm like this.
Maybe that's who I am.
Steve Wilson: And that, that to me, I
think is we can be anything we want to
be and we can have multiple identities.
Sure.
Like I'm Steve, the Steve, the mountain
biker, like the last 25 years of my life.
That's what people have known me as.
And, and that's what people
have, you know, sponsors know me.
Related to that world and whatnot.
And there's far more to me than that.
Sure.
I'm also Steve, the dad and I'm Steve,
the backpacker and I'm Steve, the,
you know, gold rush character around
a campfire with a bunch of kids.
And then I'm, and I'm also Steve, the
hunter and I'm, and do I hope to broaden
that to Steve, the angler at some point
down the road when I have more time?
Yeah, sure.
And I'm Steve, the philosophy guy.
And, and there's lots of layers to me.
And I think that's the problem is, is
that folks will allow themselves to
be, um, Or they will self identify with
something so hard that it stops them
from like branching out and finding
other elements or aspects of themself.
That's for
Travis Bader: defining yourself.
And we had that conversation on the
collective and, uh, I, I took it in a
different way because they wanted to
talk about how you define yourself.
And I said, I don't think you should.
Yeah.
I think you should have some guiding
principles that you can measure things
against and always be open to adjusting
those guiding principles based on new
inputs that you're receiving, but these
are your quick reactions and sort of.
You gotta go through the checklist.
I got my tree.
Does it match on one side or not?
I can make a decision and move forward.
Do I define myself in a set area?
No, I think that's extremely limiting.
Steve Wilson: Yeah.
Agreed.
I totally agree actually.
Cause then what happens is, is it,
it creates echo chambers, which
I don't think is a healthy thing.
Um, and it, what it does is it limits
your ability to have your own narrative.
Like when I tell the story of me, um.
It's my story.
Why would I ever give anybody
else the power to tell my story?
Yeah.
Right.
Like that's the reality of it.
And so if I align with hunting and,
and people in my other community and
I, and even being on this, like there's
people in my community that would be
surprised that I'm, I'm a hunter and, and
that's fine because they're allowed to
have their beliefs and their opinions.
It doesn't change who I am at all.
And I really hope if somebody.
Was surprised by that.
They would actually take the time to
have a conversation with me about it.
I
Travis Bader: find a lot of people,
Oh, there's Travis, the gun guy.
Yeah.
And there's like that
quick, cause we do that.
We do, we like to identify
and put people in boxes.
Yeah.
I've never considered myself a gun guy.
I've, I've been a subject matter expert
in every level of court, federal,
provincial on firearms related matters.
Um, I teach courses.
I'm a master instructor in
certain areas of firearms and I
don't self identify as a gun guy.
It's one of the things I do.
It's one of the things you
Steve Wilson: do.
And that's it.
And that, what that boils down to
is really a sense of self, right?
And that's what I find like a
beautiful thing about being in nature
is that you really find your best
self out there because you have time.
Like when you're just sitting beside
the river and you're having a game
of rocks with your, with either a
kid or one of your best friends.
And there's just a piece of driftwood
and you're just throwing pebbles at it.
I've yet to have an experience like
that, that didn't come with great
conversation, you know, and it's
interesting cause on one of our
backpacking programs we do at the high
school, it's a six day experience, right?
And so that first couple of days,
it's the full shakedown and kids are
figuring out who and what they are.
And they're either detoxing
from their tech because the
tech doesn't work out there.
And you see kids go through with
legitimate withdrawal for sure.
What does that look like?
Um, skittish behavior, um, hiding in
their sleeping bags because, Oh yeah,
they still bring their phones with
them, even though they don't work.
And so we have, we have a decision to
make there as, as adults, like you.
If you rule with an iron fist
in relation to certain things,
they just won't take you on.
They won't try you on.
So it's like, Hey kid, if you
want to bring your phone to
use it as a camera, go ahead.
Sure.
But here's the disclaimer,
the rain will ruin it.
The do will ruin it if
you don't take care of it.
It's going to be a 600,
800, 900 paperweight.
Mom and dad will be choked,
you know, so don't bring it.
But if you do, that's fine.
You can use it as your camera, but then
you'll see them with their headlamps
on, especially after lights out, you'll
like they'll have their mummy bag.
Tied right up, but you see the glow in
there and it's coming from their phone.
Right.
And it's like, I actually catch, I
didn't catch a kid doing anything.
There was just a kid I encountered
who was like sending a text message
and I'm like, homeboy, there
is no service for three days.
Like, who are you sending that message to?
And he's like, Oh no, we'll just,
when it gets to service, it'll go.
Like, that's how, like they could not at
that moment be detached from the tech.
Like they, what they thought, whatever
they had to say to their buddy back home.
Was more important than being in that
moment that they were in, but, you know,
fast forward a couple of days, all of a
sudden you encounter that kid and we, we
had an archery based program, um, where
one of our volunteers was a, um, an avid
archer and, you know, he brings some
long bows out and there's that kid taking
a crack at archery and having a great
time and like laughing with his buddies.
And I think that what I miss is
that kids struggle to be kids, like,
like the actual spirit of play.
Like how many of us and our
listeners are actually able to play?
Like take a rip, have some laughs,
laugh at yourself, laugh with your
buddies, make a, you know, make an ass
of yourself, maybe trying something or.
You know, you're right.
Travis Bader: Cause you
look at kids nowadays.
Oh, I got, uh, we're
going to get into dance.
So you're three years old.
Here's what your path looks like.
You have to pro dance for the girls.
Oh, you're going to get into baseball.
Okay.
So if you want to get on the fast track
to the major league, you're going to have
to have the best coaches and the best.
Like what happened to just playing?
Steve Wilson: Well, and, uh, a neighbor,
a neighbor friend of mine who has
been an avid hunter in his past,
um, I invited him a couple of times.
Hey, like want to head out for a day hunt.
Let's just go out for a walk in the hills.
Knowing we're probably not
going to score, but at the same
time, oh, I'd love to, but.
My son has this, or I'd
love to, and overscheduling.
Oh man, we could do a whole podcast
on overscheduling because it's
something that is a conscious
choice, uh, to do or not to do.
And, you know, my son's fiercely
athletic, like he's quite an
athletic critter and, and whatever
he generally tries to do, he's.
Has success at, um, but we
have been criticized for not
signing him up for things.
Cause I'm like, no, we're
not overscheduling him.
Right.
He has to be able to play.
Yeah.
Like he just, they like, if, if the
boys knock on the door, Hey, we're going
down to the school to play stick ball
or blitz ball is a game they play now.
Like.
That's a beautiful thing.
What's
Travis Bader: blitz ball?
Is that what you get blitzed
Steve Wilson: when you play?
It's like a, I wish, but it's a, it's
a style of ball that they throw and
it's got re you can do really crazy.
Um, it's like stick ball.
So imagine old school stick ball, but
there's a new style of ball they use and
it, uh, it goes all in wonky, wonky ways.
And then, but they go to the school
and they play stick ball like kids.
And that's a beautiful thing to me.
Like when you see kids down at a school
being, making some noise, playing
ball, having fun, that's a, that's a.
The other side of that coin though,
is like, you know, my son worked
quite hard and had some success
at achieving some school things.
And so a VR headset, he wanted to get
a VR headset and I appreciate tech.
Like I think tech is a
really interesting thing.
Like, look at the new Burris Veracity pH.
Like I'm, I'm, I would love to
get my hands on one of those
just for the tech part of it.
I don't know if it's any good, but, um,
That to me is intriguing because tech
is, is coming into a space that could
be very useful for me as a novice hunter
who doesn't understand his turrets well,
like that would be cool just to be able
to dial up my range and go to work.
So for my son to say he
can't have a VR headset.
Would make me a hypocrite.
And so, you know, but has that become a
bit of a battle because it's so insular
and it's such an escapist technology, if
you don't have the checks and balances
in place, it can take over, but that's
where as a parent and a switched on
person personally, like I understand,
yeah, you got to have a little escape.
That's okay.
Give yourself 30 minutes, but then
we're going to transition away and
we're going to pivot to something else.
That's human connection.
And we talk about that quite a bit.
Um.
Both my kids have, uh,
learning disabilities.
They're both dyslexic.
We found out in the last year, uh,
which is really interesting because he's
such a masterful hider of his dyslexia.
Like he's made it to grade seven
without us knowing he's dyslexic.
Sure.
I was
Travis Bader: diagnosed
with ADHD dyslexia.
Steve Wilson: Sure.
Yeah.
And so what we're like, technology is
going to be a part of his life, right?
Cause instead of him just refusing
to read, which he's always been
a bit of an obstinate reader,
it's like, let's use an ebook.
Sure.
Right.
Like, why would we, why would we
fight that tech when it's there?
But it's about that idea of
like, it doesn't define you.
You don't have to be just a gamer.
You don't have to be just a football kid.
You don't have to be, you can
be all sorts of things and just
like put it into the melting pot.
And then at the end of it, you've got
something pretty rad because there's
lots of cool ingredients in there.
You know, he's a great mountain biker.
Hopefully he's going to be a great hunter.
And whatever I can do to expose him,
like I took him on the Harrison hike,
which is our six day backpacking program.
I took him on his 10th birthday.
He w he was out there
for his 10th birthday.
And that was super special to share
that with him out in the woods.
Yeah.
Cause you know, 75 other kids singing
happy birthday around the fire.
How cool is that?
But then we also sang happy birthday
for every other kid that had a birthday
out there, you know, and all of a sudden
they are a part of something that is.
Profound, because it's a once in a
lifetime thing for some of these kids.
Like they may never backpack again.
Yeah.
Well,
Travis Bader: that will never be the
same experience again, will be the
same set of people will be the same,
that whole circle of friends sort of,
Steve Wilson: and they said,
but, and it's because they chose
to say yes to an opportunity.
And that's what I think if
anybody's listening, it's like,
just say yes to the opportunities.
Like say yes, like don't, there's
lots of reasons not to do things.
There's a tremendous amount
of reasons not to do things.
You know, we did a float plane trip into
the Chill Colton's a handful of years ago.
Um, uh, mountain bike trip, and it was
like, I was not fit enough for that trip.
Mm-Hmm.
. But it was with people that I, I enjoy and
it was with a crew that was safe and, and
like I knew our safety was gonna be good.
And I was like, yeah, I'm in.
Let's do it.
Travis Bader: It's amazing how your
life changes when you take that
attitude of, yeah, okay, let's do it.
Just say, yes.
Am I fearful or am I excited?
Yeah.
Right.
How do I, how do I reframe that?
And I do that with my kids too.
Like, well, I'm afraid.
Okay.
Are you afraid or excited?
If we look at it as excited,
it's the same sort of feelings,
but when you're able to, uh,
Steve Wilson: one's
automatically negative.
Right.
One has a more positive slant on it.
Right.
And it's like, choose the positivity.
It's okay to be scared.
I'm scared all the time.
Sure.
But it's like, I'm generally,
the juice is worth the squeeze.
And I think that's so, because like,
I think I have a pretty healthy
filter for what's going to go a
good direction and what has the
potential to go a sideways direction.
Have you had
Travis Bader: many things go sideways?
Um, And I asked, because, you know, I
had a friend, he's ex British army and
SAS actually, he's been on the podcast
in the past and he's into Alpinism and
he's now with Vancouver fire and doing
the, but, um, I asked him, I relay a few
different harrowing experiences that I've
had where things have gone basically awry.
And I said, but you must have a lot.
He's like, looking at me quizzically.
He's like, no, Trav.
No, I don't.
Yeah.
We're, we're operating a
little bit differently here.
I take a look at all the
checks and balances, make sure
I'm moving through safely.
Whereas perhaps my style, which I've
worked on has been, yeah, I can do it.
Yeah.
And just jump in and go.
Yeah, that's
Steve Wilson: right.
Yeah.
I think I've probably been a bit more
cautious, um, because other people's
lives are in the balance, right?
Like my per, I, I was in Alaska, we got
into, we did the Chilkoot trail, um,
which is a five day backpacking trip.
We made a, we made a poor choice around
weather, um, and not direct, like based
on the Intel we had, we, they said,
if you can see the mountain peak at
daybreak and it's clear, you'll be okay.
Even though the forecast was a bit dodgy
and we knew there was weather coming.
So we got up at four.
First peak of day.
And we decided, okay, we can see the top.
We're going to go.
And we got into a howler right,
right in the golden stairs.
And it was like, we didn't have crampons.
Um, and that was a boot packing
situation that, that was harrowing.
Um, but we made it and that's a good one.
We got stuck at the Arctic circle one
time as well, up above Eagle plains.
Um, in Hurricane Alley there, and they
hadn't dropped the barrier for the road
cause there was a wind warning in play.
And we got up to the Arctic, the
actual Arctic circle monuments,
like where it is there.
And the wind was blowing so hard that
it literally picked the truck up off
the ground and moved it to the other
side of the road and just set it down.
And that one was a bit sporty
because it was late at night.
Um, we stuck the thermometer just out the
window, cracked it, and it was 56 below.
Um.
We couldn't see, it was full white out.
And so I had to gear up and go
out and basically posthole to find
the ditch, the ditch edges so we
could get the truck turned around.
And we managed to get
back to Eagle Plains.
Uh, and literally they had to open
the barrier up for us to come back.
And that one was like a, okay, we should
have done a better job of looking at
that forecast and going, you know what,
let's just bed down here tonight, as
opposed to trying to push through.
And, um, Yeah, we had to make
some good decisions around that.
And, and luckily everything's
worked out for the best.
I've yet to have a one that's gone
Travis Bader: because
when it does, it's over.
So yeah.
It always
Steve Wilson: works there.
Yeah.
Doesn't, yeah, for sure.
You know, I've, the, the two search
and rescue jackpots I've been in, um,
those have been very, very welcomed.
Uh, not in the moment, of course,
but when you reflect and debrief
on those after the fact, like I,
I've always said yes to training.
Mm-Hmm.
, whenever there's been
an opportunity to train.
Like whether it's wilderness first
aid, like everybody who's listening.
If you're going to venture into
the woods, get yourself a solid
base of wilderness first aid.
Um, in the mountain bike world, I've
used my first aid like dozens of times.
Um, some of them quite critical and in
my backpacking, um, space with the high
school kids, we actually had to do an
extraction of an adult who had like an
appendicitis, um, episode middle of the
night, um, 3000 feet up in the mountains.
It was a heli extraction that night in
particular was quite, uh, that was a
test of all of my skills, but at the
same time, incredibly grateful that I
had them, um, cause it worked out well.
And, and it comes back
to being useful, right?
Like if you can be useful and of service,
that to me is a very fulfilling feeling.
That's one of the things that's kept
me in the field is I love being useful.
That's man's search for meaning.
I, it really is.
And, and why we search, why we search so
hard for it, I think is just whether it's
self validation or self worth or whatever
it is, it's a broader conversation.
But, uh, yeah, I think if you can
get your hands trained and a mind
that wants to do the work, then
you're incredibly useful to others.
So we've
Travis Bader: talked about a
broad spectrum of things here.
Is there anything that we haven't talked
about that we should be talking about?
Steve Wilson: I would love to maybe
even just spend a little bit of
time, like encouraging people to
just like to dig into themselves
and to find something to believe in.
Whether it's hunting, whether it's
fishing, whether it's working out,
whether it's riding bikes, like I just,
I'm feeling, I won't say sorrowful,
but one of the feelings I've been
struggling with myself is just like
seeing the world around me of people
that are disconnected with themselves.
Like somebody said this the
other day, they're like, who
would you want to go to war with?
And I didn't have a strong answer
because I don't feel like I'm surrounded
by people that I strongly believe
in, in terms of their own passions,
their self belief, their self worth.
They're like, like, who would you go
to war with is an interesting question.
Like when I go to war with Seb
all day, every day, cause that
he's a grounded individual.
And he's, he knows, like
I, if the chips were down.
That's a dude you'd want at your six.
Travis Bader: You see, I look at
that question a little differently
and who would I go to war with?
My head immediately goes
to, okay, what is this war?
Yeah.
What's my input?
Yep.
How do I change the course of this?
Sure.
How do I, I've, I've, I've never had that.
Who, who's got my six, who's at my side.
Who's, who am I going to go to war with?
It's always, there's a way that at
some point we are masters of our own
destiny and we have an extraordinary
amount of agency and influence over our
own lives and what happens around us.
How can I exert that in a way where
I don't have to have call on somebody
to go to war, which is, I don't know
if that's the right way to answer
that question or not, but that's
immediately where my head goes.
Yeah.
Steve Wilson: And, and I don't
think that's a wrong way at all.
I think.
Probably my lens has just been shaped
through the, my day to day experiences
and like looking after others and caring
for others and some days that does feel
war ish, like when we have critical
incidences in the school or if there's
the death of a staff member or a student
or like, those are heavy moments.
That you need allies and strong people
beside you, because you know, you're
going to take it from multiple fronts.
And I think when I think about, and
we, it's interesting because we never
even got to this, but like sorta how
this all came to be like my connection
to Seb and sort of, I strongly believe
that education should be, um, rolled
into part of the first response model.
I really do.
Like when you look at our first responders
and service people across all realms,
um, education is without a doubt.
An anchoring piece of that, because
all of those people have been trained.
All of those people are in roles where
they train others, that's education.
And when you look at the critical
incidences and the rise in critical
incidences with youth and minors, it's
like, who are the first, what is the
general first line of defense for that?
Teachers, counselors, the bridge
between the school system and families
and community services, whether it's
mental health services, victim services.
Hopefully parents.
You would hope so for sure.
Yeah.
And so I, you know, are there
teachers that have encountered enough
that they could be classified as
dealing, you know, with like PTSD?
Sure.
I.
I completely agree that I've been
assaulted at work several times.
And it's like, I've, I've also
been part of a useful team that put
myself in that situation because
it was necessary to protect others.
And, you know, luckily I've got
lots of tools at my disposal,
so nothing manifested in a
negative way for me about it, but.
We're dealing with hard kids on a daily
basis with unprecedented situations,
whether it's cyber challenges,
whether it's social media, whether
it's, uh, health and wellness, mental
health and wellness in particular,
like we are on the front lines.
And I know people will hear that and
probably think, oh, dude, you're dreaming.
But I really encourage you to, to,
to entertain that thought, because
when you think about this concept of
going to war, it's like some days you
walk into the building and you really
don't know what you're going to get.
And so what I love to surround
myself with is people who I know
are squared away and who have a real
strong sense of self because they
have passions and they're grounded
and they're rooted in who they are.
So when the chips go down, I know
who I'm looking to my left and
right for, because they're solid
folks who are really, really rooted.
And I, I think my experiences in the
wilderness have like, we've had some.
We've had, we were on the Juan de
Fuca trail one time and a storm surge
came in in the middle of the night
and my tent gets shaken at 2 AM and we
have a king tide and all of a sudden
six tents are swamped with seawater
because we're on a very limited beach.
And it was like, we're timing
the waves to run down the beach.
And we're getting kids out of their racks
and we're getting kids into other racks.
And we're trying to square
away gear and equipment.
And that team of people I was with on
that experience, like that's what I'm
talking about is people that are, are
squared away, that have incredible sense
of self that, you know, you work the
problem until the problem is resolved.
And then you have incredible debrief
after and you learn how to get better.
I think
Travis Bader: it's, most people won't
know that until they're in that situation.
I know.
Right.
And that's why it's important
to put ourselves into safe.
Steve Wilson: Yeah.
Risks.
Absolutely.
And, and things and things that
fire you up, like be fired up.
I like, I worry about being like, well, I
was on a Skytrain recently, which I try to
avoid because it's just, it, my, I'm too
sensory for the Skytrain, but it's like,
we're heading downtown to a concert, my
brother and I, and it was like, I'm just
watching people stare at their phones.
I'm watching people that are
incredibly situationally unaware, and
they're just moving through space.
What do you mean
Travis Bader: you're too sensory for
Steve Wilson: the Skytrain?
Uh, just, I feel too much.
I just, I, I feel, I feel people.
I feel emotions.
I feel the dangers.
I feel a lot.
I'm just like a pretty perceptive guy.
That way I always have been, um, then
wonder where my kids get it, but, um,
it's yeah, like, But it's just, yeah, it's
just people like, I, I struggle with, with
watching the world go by on autopilot.
I feel like our, our life is such
a gift that to just go through
life on autopilot really is, is,
I won't ever say it's a waste.
Cause some is better than none always,
but I really wonder if people could find.
Like just greater depth
and meaning for themselves.
If they just dug into something a little
bit, just said, yes, just said, yes.
Like, just say yes.
You know, coming on a podcast
or going on a mental health walk
or, or going to the gym, right.
Go to the gym for 10 minutes.
If you get through 10 minutes,
you will get through 10 more.
That's right.
Yeah.
If somebody offers you an opportunity
to go on a trip, it's like, Hey,
have you ever backpacked before?
No.
Let me take you backpacking.
Okay, let's go like have a scary
experience and come out the other
side, you know, getting stood up by
a grizz, like I, we had a grizzly
bear encounter in Alaska as well.
That was like as real as it gets.
And I'm so grateful for it because We did
everything that we were supposed to do
and it w it worked out okay for us, but
it was touch and go, like very much so.
And I'm so much better
for that experience.
Like I'm, because like if
somebody says, well, yeah, you,
what do you know about fear?
Let me tell you.
Yeah, it can be pretty fearful.
I can tell you about fear and I
can tell you how it felt and I
can tell you what we did and I can
tell you why I'm better for it.
And then if that gives them a little
bit of permission, just to go out into
the world and try something not as, as
harrowing or dangerous, or maybe it's
just, and I honestly feel like if people
are struggling and I've struggled,
like I'll, I'll be honest, like I've,
I have had dark times for sure, but I
always forced myself to make one step.
Travis Bader: I think a lot of
people have a difficult, like a lot.
A number of the things that
you've said here, um, you know,
just say yes, just go to the gym.
Just, they're going to find reasons
why they can't, whether that's their
playlist or whatever it might be.
Right.
Yeah.
Um, and they'll say, well, it's
easy for you to say, you're
a sponsored mountain biker.
Oh, it's easy for you to
say this sort of thing.
You had this harrowing experience
that shaped you into these things.
I think the, one of the
takeaways that people should.
Look at is the fact
that it doesn't matter.
Like the level of fear that somebody
experiences is going to be relative to
what they've experienced in the past.
And to be comparative in such a way
that, Oh, well, you had this grizzly
bear experience and I just had this,
this Rottweiler experience and right.
Or whatever it might be.
I think there's a real caution that has
to be played with trying to compare our
experiences and our ways in the same way
that PTSD, when they say, well, have I
been in put in PTSD type experiences?
Well, maybe not from a DSM five, uh,
model standpoint, but the DSM five, isn't
the be all end all on, on this thing.
I think there's, it's a hell
of a lot more nuance than that.
So I, I think, um, that just say
yes mantra that you're saying there,
if people can say, just say yes.
And.
Take that for a small step.
Steve Wilson: That's it.
That's all it is in it.
Cause one step will lead to another.
And that's that spark starts a
fire kind of thing that I live by.
And, and, you know, we've talked
about that on the collective too.
It's like comparisons and
comparative behavior is, is very.
It's a thief of joy.
It is a thief of joy, but it's so
pervasive now and you know, like.
It's, uh, if you look at
the Instagram model, right?
Like, and Seb's spoken about it.
We've all spoken about it for sure,
because we understand that it's like what
you're seeing there is not real life.
Oh.
It could be the result of somebody
taking 20 hours to represent 30 seconds.
You know, like I've, I've, uh, a group
of friends that are filmmakers in the
mountain bike world, um, make some
of the finest films that I believe
exist in terms of trying to connect.
An action with a feeling, that's what
I love about their filmmaking is it
makes me feel what it means to me.
Like I, if I have, you know,
photography is a beautiful thing.
I'm terrible at it because what
I love about photography is
it elicits a physical, like an
emotional and physical response.
And that's what I think.
You know, like hunting is so visceral
that way where it's like, it, it elicits
an emotional and physical response.
So imagery can do it.
Experiences can do it.
Conversation can do it.
Um, achievements can do it.
So whatever it is that floats your boat
or blows your hair back, go get some,
because that feeling will help you get up
the next day to find that feeling again.
And, and, and it doesn't
have to be profound, right?
Like when it, when the darkness is there,
Just get into the light, and I literally
mean go outside, let the sun touch your
face, open your blinds, set a time limit
on your TV, so that, okay, when that
thing shuts off, I am purposefully going
to stand up and I am going to go outside.
And if I'm, I'm maybe today is a 10
minute walk, maybe tomorrow's a 15
minute, 20 minute hike into the woods
in my local park, like whatever it is.
And that's where the autopilot
thing is that I struggle with on the
daily is because you see people just
moving through space, but they have,
what opportunity have they missed?
And I think what happens with
that is judgment comes into play
and judgment along with ego, boy,
oh boy, that's a toxic combo.
Right.
If Travis is on the Silvercore podcast
saying, just take one step and you
don't get up and take that next step
the next day, is the potential there
for that person to feel less than
because of that, because somebody
said they should, and they didn't.
Depends on how they frame it, but yes.
Yeah.
And that, and that's my worry overall.
Like that's one of my bigger worries is
that people will feel that judgment from
others, especially whether it's, if it's
a comparative model, which we know is
self destructive, will that limit them?
So much that they just, they
just don't take the step.
Like,
Travis Bader: you know, there's a lot to
be said for, um, for judgment as well.
I know some countries when they took a
look at their addiction crisis and they
actually have a social shaming portion
of the, um, uh, of the rehabilitation.
Basically you got, you group
your peers and you got to stand
up and talk about the things.
Because people naturally
want to conform to the group.
It's just sort of a human nature thing.
I think a certain level of judgment
is good, but if it's framed in a
healthy way, and I think that's where
a lot of this social media doesn't
provide the context for people to
frame that in a way that's maybe
Steve Wilson: positive.
I strongly believe that.
Yes.
And so, and when we talked earlier,
we talked about the idea of empathy
being a feeling and compassion being
the action, I think accountability.
And responsibility share the same duality.
So like I see accountability as a feeling.
If, if you call me out and you say,
Steve, you know, I don't think you're
being the guy that I know you can
be right now, that's eliciting a
feeling in me of accountability.
You're holding me accountable, but
then it's my job to be responsible
and actually take a step towards.
What it is you've now asked me
to be or, or called me out about.
And, and do you have an, like, do we
as mentors or friends or partners, or
do we have a responsibility in that?
Of course, but the same way that empathy
can lead to action, accountability can
lead to responsibility, which is the
action of taking that step forward.
And I don't, I've yet to encounter
a person or a scenario where more
responsibility would be a bad thing.
Yeah.
Now, in, in terms of those that are maybe
there's an age, a couple of, there's two,
uh, principles I've recently learned about
one's called expectation creep, because
as like, say as a great boss, you're,
you're probably have those anchors in your
community that you'd be like, man, if I
know, if I ask Bill to do this, Bill's
going to do a crackerjack job of it.
Now what happens is, you
know, Bill's reliable.
Um, so you go to Bill again.
Over and over.
And then all of a sudden Bill's now
the man, but he's also doing a lot
more than he was supposed to be doing.
And, and what, and then
education, the concept of that
is called performance punishment.
And so when you burn people
out, that is generally a result
that good ones get burnt out.
The bad ones don't ever feel the burnout.
No.
Cause they don't, they're not effective.
Right.
So that's a very interesting line
too, because being, I think, a good
person who holds people accountable
and responsible is also could be
helping them take stuff off their
plate so they have more time for self.
Travis Bader: So in the same
mantra of just say, yes, we're also
Steve Wilson: going to say, just say no.
A hundred percent.
And that's at healthy boundaries, right?
And that's something that education
in particular does a really poor
job of is having healthy boundaries.
Which is why your teacher's
kids are just nuked.
Like I'm on the first day
of Christmas break and our
building was vacant by three 10.
It was like the place
just ran for the door.
Travis Bader: Well, I think that's
where people have a tough time.
Okay.
I'll just say yes.
Okay.
I'll just say no.
Yeah.
But where, what should I be saying no to?
What should I be saying yes to?
And honestly, I think deep
down, we know in our heart.
We absolutely do.
I think if we were really, truly
honest with ourself, I'd say I'm
saying no to this because I'm
afraid, or I'm saying no to this
because I realized I need some rest.
Steve Wilson: Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's, and we'll, we generally
don't want to disappoint others.
Right, right.
Those of us that are in the hustle
of helping others, we generally don't
want to disappoint others, but then it
comes at a cost and every, so burnout
is an incredibly real thing, right?
Like as an athlete, when I was a gymnast,
I was so, I made a national team my
last year of my career, if you will.
Um, and I was so fried that I
didn't even want to go to nationals.
Like that should have been
a lifelong achievement.
Was to make a national team.
And I was cooked.
I was done.
It retired me because of the
struggle that it had taken with
no nurturing to get to that point.
Whereas now it's like, I, you know, I had,
I said it to a colleague the other day.
I said, look, I care about
you, but you're cooked.
And I can see it and
here's how I'm seeing it.
And I'm sorry if that hurts, but
I'm telling you because I care.
I'm wondering if there's an
opportunity for you to take a
little bit better care of yourself.
And does that mean taking a day?
And then it was like, how
can I help you get there?
How can I support you in this?
Not because they, just cause
I'm their friend and I'm
there and I care about them.
Right.
But it's like being willing to
say that and being willing to
say, here's why I'm saying it.
I think those are really important
things, um, that help people learn
how to draw healthy boundaries for
themselves, you know, and I'm, and
I, I think just inclusive language of
that on the daily is, is important.
I'm
Travis Bader: just looking at the
time here and I think we're, I
think we should, uh, wrap it up,
but I also think, uh, you've got an
invite to be back on the podcast.
Cause there's a lot more
that I'd like to talk to you
Steve Wilson: about.
Sure.
I'd love to.
Travis Bader: Awesome.
I'm into it.
Steve, thank you so much for
being on the Silverbook Podcast.
Thanks for
Steve Wilson: having me.