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Creativity isn’t tidy—it’s risky, chaotic, and full of surprises. It’s full of breakthroughs and breakdowns, moments of flow and moments of doubt. Join Mishu Hilmy for unfiltered conversations with artists, filmmakers, musicians, and fearless makers who thrive in the unknown, embrace imperfection, and create at the edge of possibility.
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Mishu Hilmy (00:03.244)
Welcome to Mischief in Mastery, where we embrace the ups, downs, and all around uncertainty of a creative life, and that steady, and sometimes not so steady journey toward expertise. Each episode we talk candidly with people I know, people I don't know, folks who produce, direct, write, act, do comedy, make art, make messes, and make meaning out of their lives. You will hear guests lay out how they work, what they're thinking about, where they get stuck, and why they snap out of their comfort zones and into big, bold, risky mo-
So, if you're hungry for honest insights, deep dives into process philosophies and practical tips, plus maybe a little mischief along the way, you're in the right place. For more, visit mischiefpod.com. Hey everyone, it's Mishu and welcome to Mischief and Mastery. Today we're talking with Sean Antoine II, a Harlem-raised documentary and experimental filmmaker whose work explores memory, identity, and the preservation of unrepresented Black histories. He's a graduate of Northwestern University's Documentary Media MFA program.
where also taught film production. He fuses archival research, oral history, and recreated imagery to examine spirituality, family, legacy, and community resilience. His films, including Kingdom, For Those That Live There, Showtime, and the hybrid documentary Sight Unseen have been screened at venues such as Lincoln Center, Doc New York City, and the Gene Siskel Film Center. His work continues to reflect his commitment to honoring black cultural memory while pushing the boundaries of nonfiction storytelling. So a lot of fun to get to chat.
and listen to Sean share his stories. In the episode, we talk about the power of memory and myth in filmmaking, how a miraculous family story from the 70s led him to play around with a new form of documentary storytelling, as well as the challenges of preserving black histories when archives don't exist, and what it makes to make the unseen visible through cinema. So if that's something you're interested in, please stick around and continue listening. You can learn more about Sean at SeanAntoineII.com, as well as follow him
on Instagram at SeanAntoineII. I'll have that in the show notes. But here it is, me and Sean. Hope you enjoy.
Shawn Antoine II (02:10.222)
Yeah, you know, currently we're in a quite a fickle, just, know, globally, whether it's the politics or just, you know, society, a lot of people are very uneasy. And even myself, you know, graduating with my MFA and then coming back home to New York City and looking for full-time work has been quite a challenge. But it's of the times and as an artist, I understand that that's always going to be a reoccurring thing.
Creatively, I've been feeling really good. I just finished more. I'm still finishing up just slight adjustments on my latest film, which I'm really excited about the sight unseen. And yeah, it's really been empowering to work on that film and really step into kind of this next phase as a filmmaker of, you know, creating larger projects, employing people to work on my films. I'm usually doing everything. And a one man crew like Robert Rodriguez says, yeah, a rebel without a
A without a crew. Yeah. Great book.
So yeah, I'm feeling good now.
Cool. Yeah. I'm happy to hear. like a site unseen, saw it on your website. So hybrid film, is that like a mix of a doc and a narrative? I'm curious, what's hybrid film mean to you or what's that kind of site unseen?
Shawn Antoine II (03:25.494)
Yeah, hybrid film was this new term I kept hearing a lot while I was up at Northwestern for grad school. And I was like, what is a hybrid film? This is, you know, is this a new term? Is it something that's always existed? And I really was introduced to it, fortunately, by a lot of international filmmakers who really do this in their practice a lot, of this blend of like, narrativized scenes that really accompany the documentary element.
What I tried to do in this film, which was very ambitious, was reenact some of these moments that the woman in the film, my mother, actually spoke about and kind of bring back to life these characters that are no longer with us. All the characters in the film are actual people in my family and members of my community who I read up on and interviewed relatives who are still alive. And what I tried to do is really blend these elements. I would say it's kind of a very new style of even hybrid film.
where I really lean into the narrative as opposed to, you know, hoping to find archival footage and materials that no longer exist. And, know, one of the things I've been thinking about a lot as far as hybrid films and the future of documentary filmmaking is what happens when there's no more archival? There's no archival. And how does oral histories and oral traditions, how do we keep those alive? So that's, that's where I really leaned into this hybridity of filmmaking and documentary filmmaking.
in particular, to really bring these characters back to life and really provide really a vivid and immersive experience for audiences.
Yeah. Cause like traditionally it would be, if you are doing an oral tradition, maybe you have a voiceover of your subject you're interviewing and then either playing, you know, photos in the background or archival footage. I think there's something to be said about the creativity or kind of reconstructing an experience or a mood or, or giving life to something that wasn't afforded the chance to have life through whatever means.
Shawn Antoine II (05:23.886)
Absolutely. You one of the barriers that I was faced with immediately with this film was one, my mother spoke about this journalist who wrote an article and took a photo of her back in 1971 when the glowing cross appeared. You can't Google this stuff. This stuff isn't on Google. It's not a large database. And so I actually spent about a month in Harlem at the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture and actually ended up finding this article.
that my family hadn't seen in over 50 years. And I think that's a part of the innovation that filmmakers have always kind of had is how do we find ways to make it happen? The vision is in our head, but how do we bring this to life?
What, what prompted you to, to pursue it? this sort of a family story that your mother had brought up over the years or was it just something out of kind of out of nowhere where you're like, what, happened in the seventies?
Tell me more. So back in 2016, I got a call from my mom saying, you know, your great aunt, Sarah is in the hospital in North Carolina. I was playing college football at the time. So I asked my coach, you know, can we go, can I go down south with my mother to see my great aunt? She's one of the last living relatives of my grandmother. And when I got down there, she was facing pneumonia, sick in the hospital bed. But, you know, she's, I believe she was in her late seventies at the time.
You know, many people when they get that age, they lose their memory, you know, their body is falling apart and her body was somewhat failing, but her mind was there and she remembered everything about me. She was like, how's football? How's Rhode Island? How's this? How's that? And then my mom left and then me and her started speaking and she was like, yeah, I used to live in Boston or Massachusetts. And I'm like, you lived in Massachusetts. She was like, yeah, your mom never told you about the glowing cross. And I was like, the glowing cross, what are we talking about? And.
Shawn Antoine II (07:09.582)
Then she proceeds to tell me about the glowing cross that appeared in my family's apartment back in 1971 and how thousands of people were lining up to see this cross and how it was there for a month. And just telling me all the different interactions between family members while this happened. And I sat on this story for years. I was like, there's no way this is true. I couldn't find any articles. But my family members, when I brought it up to them, it was like, oh yeah, we remember that. The ones that are still living. And they were kids when it happened, along with my mother.
Last year, maybe, I'd probably say about 14 months ago, I would say probably like June, one of my classmates was like, Sean, remember that story you told me about the glowing cross in your family? I was like, yeah, I forgot I told you that. But she was like, you should do that for your thesis film. And I was like, hmm.
This is an interesting task, maybe, let's see what I can find. And then I was like, all right, I'm gonna try to do this, whatever is gonna come. And I ended up finding an article, like I mentioned earlier, at the Schomburg Center. And once I found the article, I was like, this is a true story. It wasn't just oral histories. And I'm like, this has been validated by these journalists who wrote the article and even took pictures of the glowing cross. And I said, you know what? Let me try to figure out a way to make this a film. And I was just...
As I was coming up with the process of trying to make the film, was interviewing my mother. was remembering stuff. was interviewing family members down south. Not in, you know, purposefully using my documentary background and just research. I was like, I don't want to tell my mother any of the things that other people are saying unless that'll help my mother remember stuff. And it did. She started to remember things as I gained more information and.
From there on, was like, all right, I think we're getting to a point where we're getting a movie. And then I had the hard part, like, what does a film look like now that I have all this information? And yeah, I leaned into some of my favorite films, some of my favorite directors. I watched tons of international films. And yeah, I would say I was really inspired, at least when I was thinking about, like, what does a hybrid documentary look like that doesn't have archival, doesn't have a-
Shawn Antoine II (09:09.198)
of these things and I thought of my favorite movie. Two of my favorite movies actually, Forrest Gump and Curious Case of Benjamin Button. Although those aren't documentaries, they use kind of this spokesperson, a talking head to transition and lead into narrativized moments in history. And I was like, huh, this could work, but I need to figure out how to build this world and build these characters out. And yeah, that's what really led me into like, all right, this film can happen. This film can come to life.
So, so you kind of, uh, you know, got some inspiration, you know, story kind of comes to you in 2016, then a friend references it again years later, and you start researching in earnest, you know, recording interviews. Did you have a certain point of view or idea of where you wanted it to go, or was it kind of uncovered? I'm curious, like what, what might've been coming to you versus you sort of manufacturing either a narrative thrust or an outline. So what was kind like the practical elements of.
you determine the story versus discovering the story.
Yeah. I think the big thing that I immediately had to realize what this is. My mom, as she spoke about the story, she's my mom's very national. She's chill. Like I said, she never told me the story. I guess, what was that? Maybe 22 years of my life. I never heard this story. knew that everybody else that was involved in the story besides my aunt, her sister had passed away. My grandmother, my grandfather, the journalist who wrote the article passed away in 2005, Melvin Tapley.
I was like, there's ways to construct scenes based on what people are saying and there's truth to that. But like everything, even documentaries all the time, it's a construct of the truth. And what I really wanted to lean into in the film was I don't want to create these characters in a way that's trying to build them up in kind of this direct narrative sense. But if I could build on what these experiences around the cross were like, then.
Shawn Antoine II (11:04.302)
I'm still leaning on the truth and allow my mother's story to be told in the truth. Yeah, I think that was the biggest thing for me. was like, all right, this journalist wrote this article and in the article, he interviewed members of the community, took photos of my family, and at some point he met my family. So these stories do merge at some point. There's some convergence of this journalist interviewing my grandmother, interviewing members of the community, and my mother speaking about how my mother, my grandmother reacted to everything, how my grandfather reacted to this loin cross.
how the community reacted. And that alone allowed me to use this thing that a professor at Columbia, actually Columbia University says to D.A. Hartman, she says, you know, for many black narratives, we're not afforded this mass documentation or even photos for many people. But what we do have is this opportunity to somewhat add this kind of speculative fiction around things, like speculate what could have been said. And there's still truth in that.
That's what I really leaned into, kind of building the story, building out the dialogue is, hey, mom, you know, for example, one scene, my grandfather is arguing with my grandmother in the film. And the truth in that is it's implied basically because my grandfather at the time was on the verge of a divorce with my grandmother. They actually got divorced one year after the glowing cross appeared. So I was like, well, this, can lean into that.
What would an argument around a glowing cross? My grandfather, my mother said, didn't like people in the house viewing this cross. He didn't want anything to do with it. So, you my grandfather died almost 17 years ago, but I can only imagine what he would have felt like. He people in the house coming to see this kind of supernatural glowing cross. And what would he have said to my grandmother at the time? And, you know, my mother was saying, yeah, they argued, you know, but.
This is kind of what I leaned into kind of building these narrative arcs and, you know, maintaining that documentary trail.
Mishu Hilmy (12:58.03)
to it. There's an ethics involved and I'm thinking of maybe like, I don't know if this is an accurate distinction, but anthropology versus say history where, know, some historians say I can only go based off of the facts and the primary resources available versus anthropologists. You know, there, there might not be written history that exists. So it's like, how can I, you know, understand better.
and synthesize things. it's like, you know, to go either a kind of objectivist or literalist of like, well, I don't have the information, therefore I can't, you know, create a narrative or create a document about it. But I think it's an artistic perspective to go, well, you know, I don't prescribe to that belief. can expand as needed, especially for, you know, stories that haven't had the kind of information valuable because of the time or, you know, the area.
Absolutely. And that's, that's one of the big things that I think, you know, documentaries kind of they're facing so many challenges right now, whether it's a lack of funding, if it's a lack of interest, which is a big thing, or even if there's a particular way to create documentaries, like the Netflix is on HBO, they all follow a formula. you know, documentary is kind of at this point where maybe we've seen all the types, like what is new? Right. How do we now reconceive and take in information? How do we immerse people? How do we reinvigorate?
such an important art form. I think, like you said, anthropologists do it all the time, but documentary filmmakers, they teeter. But like I mentioned earlier, so many of the international filmmakers I've been able to watch. during this process, I got a chance to meet with Eduardo Williams. he was just speaking about, there's no real limitations in film. These are all invisible walls and boxes. But you truly get to decide. And the beauty about filmmaking is,
Once you do make the film, then you engage in dialogue with people about, you know, how do they feel? And as I made this film, I think one of the most beautiful things that I kept, I mean, it was just so many things that happened that were just felt so surreal and supernatural. People were walking up to me as we were filming and I would mention the story we made. And one woman, she said to me, she said, and it was just such a random conversation. She said,
Shawn Antoine II (15:05.71)
I remember this story. I was a student at Fordham University and I remember the glowing crosses. She said, I went to school at Fordham from 1970 to 1974. And I was like, what is the chance that now this is coming up? And now, you know, the validity of it all is following after I the first step in trying to tell this story. And even my pastor at my church, he remembered when he was a kid going to see the glowing cross at one of his friends building and all these things pop up and it really reinforces.
You know, the opportunity documentary has to, not only educate, but also give life and give memory back to people that may have forgotten.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think docs are probably the most fascinating and the most moving of the genre in filmmaking. don't think I've ever felt more engaged or moved than by any other genre. And it's like, it's a hard genre, especially to balance the, you know, the ethics or the kind of maybe old school journalistic principles that might've been, you know, laid on. however,
I think it's like a great challenge. you find that doc is the genre you're predominantly living in?
Yeah, it's one of those things where, you know, I've been making films now for 10 years and I started off by making a documentary. I was kind of one of those filmmakers that was birthed out of, you know, social movements. The Black Lives Matter movement was my introduction to like filmmaking and documenting. And then I kept making docs. made a really big short film called Showtime. It got selected for 58 film festivals and then COVID happened. And I was like, well,
Shawn Antoine II (16:38.082)
I wanted to do this narrative thing in transition, but now there's definitely no resources, but I want to keep making films. So I kept picking up my camera, kept shooting, kept documenting, and I felt even more immersed into the craft of documentary filmmaking and storytelling during COVID. you know, narrative, at least for me, has always been, I love watching narrative movies, probably more than I like watching documentaries.
I'm like the opposite.
But, you know, documentaries is the thing that I like making. I'm watching, I love narratives. So, I mean, I would say even in, you know, my filmmaking practice, I would say I'm a hybrid filmmaker. I love making both. love, you know, whatever serves best for the stories where I really want to lean into as far as stories I want to tell. And sometimes it's photography. Sometimes photography does enough of the storytelling where I don't have to record and edit and everything. It's just, here's the moment, here's the history and whatnot.
Yeah. Yeah. I went through some of your photos on your site and it's just there. There's some, I love photo journalism. There's a power of like that gut feeling you get when you're on the street and you're like something, something's happening and you just, can kind of follow the impulse. And sometimes it's magical and sometimes you miss it by half a second, but, there's a story, there's an energy, there's an artfulness when you get to capture a still shot.
And I mean, even when I was working on this film, I leaned into so many photographs. I know in a hybrid sense of it all, like had the narrative, had the documentary, but also I had archival footage from the 70s that are incorporated in the film. And even as I was working on this, like looking back at like Gordon Parks, looking at some of his work and other people as well that just like, they captured a moment, right? They positioned this camera to capture this time in Black life.
Shawn Antoine II (18:17.654)
or New York City to really build out a world. And you know, all these things work together. They work hand in hand.
Yeah. And then for the hybrid element, like what was your approach in securing locations, production design, when it came to evoking a vibe, it a mix of 21st century backgrounds, maybe some talking heads versus say a recreation where you're doing a little bit more production design.
Yeah, we went all out. mean, we were full in production design. I told my production designer, I said, look, we're going to make a 1971 film and it's going to look like it. We don't want to cut any corners. And while we made the film, we actually were able to get an apartment based on from this person that I worked on a former documentary called Kingdom. And he lived in the projects in Harlem and I went to interview him last summer. I was filming a feature doc and.
I went in his apartment and I was like, this could be a set for a movie. This is, this is crazy. And he was like, yo, my family lived here since 1950 and they had the wallpaper up. was, it was truly God sent. Like, yeah, you're going to make a movie here one day, Sean. And then, you know, the Amsterdam news in Harlem, which had been inactive for some years, they actually let me go in and film in their newsroom, which hasn't been used in over like 30 years. And we rebuilt.
We rebuilt the whole newsroom, like it's 1971. And we actually got to film at the actual desk of the journalist who wrote the article about my family. Yeah, I mean, like we had a real low budget, I'd probably say 30,000 or so, but so many things we got creative, like, right, where do we buy this piece of thing? Where can we go? Can we borrow this? Yeah, people bought in. And as far as locations, we filmed all in Harlem. It's a Bronx-ent story, but I was the location scout and I walk around my neighborhood all the time, walking the alleys, just like.
Shawn Antoine II (20:06.958)
I could film a movie here one day and I have a whole note section in my phone, just a photos of locations like alleyway, building, basement, interiors. And yeah, I really went all out. Like this has to look like it's 1971. I was watching movies like Shaft, Sweet Sweet Sweet Bag by what's his name? Van Peebles. And I was just like, it needs to look like this. This looks like 1971. This doesn't, can't go with it. And, you know, very blessed that my VFX team, Piers, Denise.
He actually was like, look, we can do this. And he really instilled in me like, whatever you want to do, keep the, make sure the camera doesn't move this way or that way. And we can add that. So, I mean, even when it came down to like, I believe it was in the trailer, we had a building on fire in the back, like it's 1971 Bronx. He was like, we can make that happen. World building was of the utmost importance because like I said before, I want to make sure it's truly a hybrid film. I want people to view, watch the film and be like.
All right. Now we're in 1971. And then when we cut to my mother's interview portion, now we're in modern day. She's revisiting these times and truly diving into this whole memory and time traveling for a sense as I said, do.
Are you in like the festival submission process? Are you still wrapping up some of the post elements of mastering? Like where are you at with, it looked like a slated for a 2026 kind of release. are you just in midst of that, that torment of a festival submission?
Yeah, we're in the midst of festival submission. So submitting to all the Academy Award qualifiers, the small festivals, I came up through the smallest festivals, you know, the small ones in Arkansas to the mid tier ones in Massachusetts. I'm like, I just want people to see the films. We're now submitting. The film is finished. VFX wants to add some more stuff. So we're just slightly tweaking, but the film is mixed, colored and yeah, it's ready to go.
Shawn Antoine II (21:55.49)
Hopefully in January or at the latest, early February, we'll be doing a big community screening right here in the community. I'm very fortunate that we had over 300 people in the neighborhood give money and help us raise this. Yeah, we raised the money in less than a, I'd probably say less than a month actually, about three and a half weeks. We raised all the funds for the movie. And I want to get back to them. They've been kind of championing me as like this neighborhood filmmaker. They watched me grow up over the last 10 years.
So I want to make sure that they see the film first before any festivals. It's important that we show them because, you know, the festivals will be one week and then it's done. But these community members, they're going to keep supporting me throughout. Yeah. We, we had over, I want to say 18 cast members, maybe like 30 background and maybe like, I want to say like 22 crew members that worked on this. So it's important that they see this because they worked hard on this and they truly believed in the project.
And that's fairly sizable for, think docs are typically, you know, can be pretty threadbare, but given that it's a hybrid film, it has all the bells and whistles of, you know, creating a short where you're going to crew up. So like how, how have you never, or had navigate that challenge given maybe some of your previous doc work might've been more you with a producer and a camera and maybe a sound, a boom app or a sound mixer.
Yeah. this was my biggest challenge. I've worked with like real small crews on my narrative stuff before, like real running gun. But you know, during this time in between, like before, just before grad school, I actually got a chance to work on the show called the Penguin. I was assisting the executive producer, Bill Carraro for the production of the show. And I got a chance to see how do you run a multimillion dollar per episode HBO TV show?
How do you get the crew? How do you hire people? Who do you need to do what? And yeah, I really learned during that time outside of my documentary experience, how do you get people to work with you? I was in grad school for two years at Northwestern and they really want us to be by yourself documentary filmmakers. It's a part of the process. And for me, I knew this film would fail if I did it by myself. Or.
Shawn Antoine II (24:04.694)
it wouldn't reach its full potential. for me, I had to get used to, know, all right, Sean, what do you need to shoot like by yourself and what do you need a crew for? And there was times with this project, you know, some crew members weren't available. I didn't have budget, so I had to grab the camera and go shoot a quick scene with my actor. Not a scene, but just maybe a B-roll shot. Yeah. And, you know, it was definitely a process of, you know, now I usually touch the camera on all my projects and shoot.
90 % of this film was on my DPS. were like, we got you. Tell us what you need. Gotcha. even had, I've never worked with an AC. We had an. Yeah, was, it was something I wasn't used to, but I loved it. I was like, wow, these shots look so beautiful. I don't have to be director, producer, writer, you know, all of those things. I could just be director in the moment. And.
Yeah.
Shawn Antoine II (24:52.386)
You know, working with a crew is one of those things that a lot of independent filmmakers don't really have the opportunity to do. But, know, one of the things I said when we were raising money and I said in my Kickstarter video is with your support with this film, we'll be able to hire an all star cast and crew. And I meant that both my DPs are Harlem natives. I hired two DPs, which is uncommon in any type of films. But I said, these are my guys. They live in my neighborhood and they can shoot. They shoot for everybody else. We should all be working together because
We never worked together. And I was like, this is the time. the crew was just an amazing thing that I'm just so happy I was able to do. We employed over 60 people in the neighborhood, young people, especially that might've never had the opportunity. Even my wardrobe head, he's never been a wardrobe department head, never worked on a movie set, but he bought in, helped him, made sure he was supported throughout the process. But just giving people an opportunity is a big thing to us, you know, especially in this film thing.
You know, it's not common people co-direct projects, but I don't think I've heard of co-DPing. it's like, you know, got to, got to innovate. You're innovating. Like, did you set expectations when there might've been a variety of different department heads, especially folks who might be fresher, like how's, how was it sort of setting expectations, kind of a shared vision for the project.
Yeah. Um, and this is my producer hat now from the director have taken that hat off. I had to make sure that if people aren't prepared, it's because I didn't prepare them enough. was the bottom line. If they aren't, they don't have the materials, they don't have the experience. They're not asking the questions because I'm not making sure they're prepared for what this sheet was. We shot over nine days. I had to make sure that everybody was on point, whether it was the PA, um, had a director's assistant, one of my good friends, Todd.
I was like, everybody needs to be on point because there's going to be times where I'm not around. And as far as expectations, you know, everybody on my crew, they've seen my films before. They've seen the festivals. They've come to screen us. They know I'm not here to just mess around. We're making serious films for the community. And most importantly, like this is bigger than all of us. So everybody immediately bought in and they were like, look, we're going to make this happen. And, you know, I did my best along with my producers to make sure that everybody was fed.
Shawn Antoine II (27:07.374)
Merchandise, we hooked it up. was not a low budget film. was like, look, this is going to be the best film I've ever worked on. So the best film y'all ever worked on. And we truly were a family. Like people talk and hang out after the film. Relationships have started. It was a beautiful, it was a beautiful experience. And yeah, the expectations were met, exceeded. And we're even talking now about, what's the next film? What do we want next? Because we've really enjoyed the collective buy-in by everybody.
Yeah, just, you know, now people on the curl like, look, I want to do a film. And we truly inspired everybody.
Yeah. I mean, that's, that's great when it's sort of, it's generative and I think, you know, work begets work as well as relationships. The beauty of making short projects, even if some might be, you know, harder, more challenging or a larger scope or budget, the benefit of the short is like the variety of people you get to work with. I think I've seen you have a fairly prolific set of, of work behind you already, which is a great place to be. So for example, diviners, like, so, you're, you're at a place where you're excited for another.
or new projects, like how have you gone about commitment or committing to action or committing to execution to, know, either your previous projects or this potentially current project. So I'm just curious, like, how do you stay consistent or how do you activate, you know, yourself to do something or commit to an idea?
Yeah, it's tough. mean, I'll start by saying, you know, at the same time I was deciding to do this film last summer, I had to, shot a whole feature doc, basically a continuation of my short doc kingdom. And that was hard. I was like, look, I got to finish shooting this while trying to come up with ideas and develop the side and see. And I still haven't finished that project yet, but I think that's kind of the, that's the dance you have to do as an independent filmmaker. And especially like for me as a director, I want to go on and direct more things and bigger projects.
Shawn Antoine II (29:00.194)
I got to have a sleep. got to have projects that I want to start. I got to finish one. And to my benefit, I was in grad school for the last two years. And while at Northwestern, we work in trimesters. We had to produce, I mean, for multiple classes, a film within 10 weeks. So while I was at Northwestern for two years, I made over 10 short films. I was punching out stuff. So my brain was just on like work mode, work mode.
Just go. That did numbers for my creative process. being like, don't stress out a project. Let it fly. Yeah.
Yeah. think, uh, uh, volume is underrated, right? Like it's just a flex is a muscle and forget about finding your voice, make your voice, manufacturer, your voice explored. know, might have, you know, X number of shorts you've done in a short time period. It's like, all right, this one, no one's going to see that one, but I'm glad I learned this lesson about, Oh, this is a tone I don't like, or this is a vibe I don't like. but like now that's yeah. Like with school, with the construct of school wrapping up, I think what makes it challenging is like how.
How do you then manufacture community or constructs to stay consistent, even if it's not as intense as an output?
that's something that I'm facing now. know, luckily I'm still cleaning up and finishing this stuff up with the sight unseen, but, I was able to go to China this summer with Northwestern film a film out there. And now it's like, how do I transition into working on this next thing? How do I commit more time? then now finding full time work. that's even another challenge because you got to pay the bills. was shown to have been began to pay me. I'm not getting residual checks. I'm not getting first look deals or any of that, but,
Shawn Antoine II (30:39.662)
I think the love of the art form kicks in. I go to the movies probably two to three times a week and I'm just constantly inspired. It's kind of hypnosis. I'm hypnotizing myself to be like, you got to go there. You got to make this. You got to end up in this room, manifesting it all. And I think the next big thing that I'm planning to do is building a team. I enjoyed working with folks. There's tons of people that want to support and be a part of something.
But it's how do I delegate, you know, these duties? How do I bring in producers to help make sure that I'm getting these things done? And I think that's the big thing that I'm really trying to make sure that I do in my work is how do I add producers to make sure that, it's not just my film, it's our film. They want to get it done just as bad as I do. And that'll allow work to be produced.
Being on set for say a larger scale production like the Penguin, maybe you're seeing more production elements. So I'm curious about lessons learned from that and how do those lessons also go toward building out say a producing team versus say, you know, prepping for set.
Yeah, The Penguin was a very unique show. know, obviously, you know, it's coming from the world of Matt Reeves and the Batman, but also was in collaboration with HBO. You know, the Batman is one of the bros, HBO is the streaming entity. And learning how all of these different producers had a role in making sure that this film was getting made was one of the best things that I was able to learn. Like, what is everybody's job? Right. Who does what? Like the...
The line producer slash executive producer isn't maintaining story. He's allowing the writer to write, the director to direct, but finding ways to support them. And I would say, you know, that above the line kind of guidance that I learned about one, maintaining a relationship with a studio. I was mind blown. I was like, this is how it works. You just don't go in handing your script and you get rewrites, you get notes, you have them watch over your shoulder on set. That was incredible.
Shawn Antoine II (32:35.32)
But also as it relates to everybody below the line, it's how do you make sure that, you know, they're operating in a way that's efficient and it's not going above the line. No problems go above the line. Producers don't need to be worried about what's happening with locations. They need to be focusing on that. Bill, who's a great guy, he's a legend in my eyes. I've worked on Blade Runner, Lovecraft Country, Penguin, tons of shows. He was just so efficient and meticulous in planning.
and making sure that everybody on his team, besides the above the line folks, were aware of what was going on. Communication is key. If there's an opportunity to meet, let's do it in person. Don't do the phone calls. Let's talk in person. Let's hash out everything here. And that is about just being a total professional and understanding that, you know, obviously, you everybody has their livelihood and, you know, their own personal things going on. But ultimately, like when you sign on to be a part of a project, the goal is to make the best project possible.
Yeah, I would say that was kind of some of the biggest things that I learned about relationships, how to maintain relationships and also not micromanage. And I was one of the things like, look, let people do their thing. I hired them, they're visionaries, they're artists. I mean, when I was working on this project, was hiring people. For example, Corey Lucas, who I mentioned was the wardrobe supervisor. Never wardrobe supervisor in his life. But I was like, this dude could dress. He actually went to my high school, a private high school in the Bronx, Cardinal Hayes. He's a total professional and I could speak to his character.
even more than I could speak for his work. And that was one of the big things that I was just, I sought out people like that. If I didn't, if I needed an AC, I called one of my friends who's a DP. said, who's somebody that's a go getter? You know, I'm a crazy filmmaker. I like to shoot a lot. I'm running gun. I work fast. Who can get it done? And we've really made sure that we built out a team that not only were amazing in their own craft, but I really want to make sure that it could work with me. I'm not, I can't work with everybody, but you know, how could they work with my style of directing?
It's the due diligence of that's the producer hat and it takes time. know, as your budget kind of scales up, ideally, you know, you have, other team members that can help you, but at a smaller level, it's like doing the interviews, the phone calls, the expectation setting as well as, I'll still do reference checks. If I don't know the person, okay, can you just hit me up with like two or three folks who've worked in the past year? And that, that helps. but yeah, I think, you know, there's it's.
Mishu Hilmy (34:57.89)
You know, when you're on set, it's your manufacturing images, much like an assembly line. there's every, every part needs to be working or else it'll slow things out. And it's fine. Things slow down. It's, it's natural. But I think it's a creative endeavor and also a physical labor.
yeah, for sure.
And then I'm curious, like sort of like maybe motifs around spirituality. Cause I think diviners is around it and same with sight unseen. like, do you find that at least at the dock side, when you're generating ideas that, tends to be a theme that comes up or, or like, how do you typically like to ideate things you might want to write or, or shoot?
Yeah. So Diviners was, and Diviners is kind of Green Bay. They're somewhat the same film, but you know, Diviners, I was able to collaborate with a woman at Northwestern University who is a performance studies PhD major. And we were in a dance for film class. So documentary filmmakers partnered with the performance studies slash dance students. And we came up with an idea of kind of, she was really into spirituality and personal life.
that she practices some traditional like Orisha African religions. you know, I was like, I really want to do a sci-fi film. And we blended those to kind of create the divine areas slash green bay. And that was my opportunity. And we shot that after the sight unseen to really tap into a new style. Like I haven't done any particular like Afrofuturism or like African centered work or black sense of work in that type. So that was an opportunity for me to do such and that I'm a man of faith. I'm Baptist, I'm Christian and
Shawn Antoine II (36:34.276)
the sight unseen, would say for, for so long, I wasn't thinking about this as a faith based film. And my casting director, she was like, you know, Sean, I was reading the script and she read it a bunch of times. She was like, this is a fake based film. Even before we started rolling, I was like, you know, I didn't categorize that as that, but I think, you know, just the elements is which my mom was speaking about it. And I mean, how could it not be a faith based film when it's centered around a glowing cross that appears. And that was one of the things I was like, well, let's lean into that. There's an audience for that, but also like.
That's my mom's experience. That's what she kept speaking about. That's what she said her family, my grandmother spoke about. And I think it's important even as we look at faith-based films and spiritual films and all of those, like what does that look like in this new essence and new style of storytelling? Because I do feel like a lot of faith-based films kind of have this kind of same feeling, the same kind of energy, somewhat the same music sometimes even. it's diverse. There's new.
There's ways you can tell stories that incorporate that while still paying respects to the religion. And I think that's the biggest thing with a lot of faith based music films. They don't want to disrespect the religion. They don't want to disrespect anybody in that regard. And in the same breath, like with the site I was saying, I was like, that's not my intention. My intention is to show how faith came up through this occurrence. And even in diviners and Green Bay, was like, here's how their faith is being.
This is how it's being incorporated into this other worldly futuristic essence and sense. Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's an interesting challenge because it comes with a loaded baggage, not unlike documentaries of sensitive subjects or even films about things like violence or abuse. There's a sensitivity and a weight that comes with it, it just gets me thinking the artist's duty is to express their vision or their experience, even if it's a decentered experience, not necessarily a tour. It's a communal decentered
Mishu Hilmy (38:35.67)
story, like, how do you navigate, you know, maybe the trappings and the traps of the, maybe the cliches of political films or faith-based films where it can become kind of like a hallmark thing, you're hyper conservative or hyper X and you're, you're trying to put your artistic spin, but also manage the, maybe the, the weight or the respect of it. Like, can there be a punk rock faith-based film?
No, 100%. I think, you it goes back to, I mean, and this is even me kind of somewhat paraphrasing or quoting like what some of my pastor or the Bible might have said, you know, like we're all made in the image of God and, you know, we all have, we're all born with original sin and this kind of our own perspective on how we view faith, how we view our relationship with God and all of these things. I think, you know, my purpose wasn't with this film to save folks. wasn't my goal. But.
to let people into the experience and the perspective surrounding faith, which is just so important. And especially as we speak, know, my church, everybody's always saying their testimony, what brought them closer to God. And this film for, you know, even my mother, she speaks about like her faith after this. She was six years old when this happened, how she viewed Christianity and how she's a devout Christian, even, you know, in her sixties now. And I think that's the, you know,
At least as I choose to create and everybody has their own purpose and how they choose to create is, you know, like, how do I view the world? How do I experience, you know, my relationship with God? And, know, every time a filmmaker gets an opportunity to both create and show work, you're letting people into your world. You're letting them know a little bit more about you and you're allowing them to engage in dialogue and.
Now you have the opportunity to share perspectives, which is so important. I don't always like move away from those kinds of conversations, even as I show my work, because, know, there's the, knows where your film could touch, who it could touch, how it impact them. And I think that's just as important as kind of being on kind of the, the guard of, don't want to do this. I don't want to upset anybody. It's like, well, is upsetting somebody worse than is it,
Shawn Antoine II (40:45.134)
worse than inspiring someone. Is that worth more? And that's, I'm more on the side of like, I'd rather inspire and inform people as opposed to just please folks.
Yeah, yeah, it's a, it's an interesting kind of, maybe intentionality because there's a risk of self reducing, right? Like, well, I gotta, this is how these types of stories can only be told. So I got to reduce it or because I got to reduce it because I'm so afraid of, upsetting people. And within my own church, might say, you shouldn't, you shouldn't show this or depict that, or maybe, speak to doubt or speak to a certain, you know, nuance or even subversion. Right. think I'm sure people have cheeky relationships with.
all religions who are within it and actively practicing it can also maybe sense a degree of irony while also still holding on to a degree of reverence.
Yeah. And, you know, it's something to be said too, you know, and I don't want to say it's always filmmakers that make these decisions. Depending on who funds your films, they could be like, we don't want this or it needs to look like this or it needs to say this message. And to my benefit, which I'm so happy, it was hard raising money. I'll tell you that asking people for money is difficult. you know, the fact that I was able to have full creative autonomy over this project, I was able to do those things. And who knows? I hope I always.
have the green light like Martin Scorsese to be like, this film is like this, but you never know. There'll be times where I don't have that power to do such. yeah, you know, but I hope filmmakers do at least fight for the opportunity to tell the story that they want the way they want it.
Mishu Hilmy (42:16.894)
Yeah, it's always an issue of scale. mean, took what Scorsese 30 or 40 years to make silence about the Catholic missionaries in Japan. But also as they have the scale of it's like, you can tell your story with your iPhone and with your friends and that can be enough and that process can be enough. And at the same time for an artist, they want to, you know, access different tools. They normally don't, you know, you want to get your gilded paints and your special canvases and those cost money. And the price of that sometimes is a patron saying,
Yeah, I'll give you this beautiful canvas and this beautiful brush, but you can only do it this way. You know, got to paint them Adichie's or whatever.
Absolutely.
Maybe when it comes to the stories you want to tell, how are you going about like defining what's enough? Because I imagine that where you're at in your career, there's that grind, that spirit of like hustle. But as an artist, like what's sort of like a definition of success or definition of enough.
Yeah, for me, I tell my friends this all the time. They think I'm crazy. I'm like, well, you guys work in finance. I'm going to be making films. So I'm like a hundred. So for me, it's being, I want to tell stories. want to, I'd be lying if I said I don't want to tell big studio films the same way I want to make indie films. I want to be able to reach the masses. I want to show my films abroad to international audiences. I want to bring people together, but ultimately like.
Shawn Antoine II (43:40.684)
When I started filmmaking, I came up with my production company Perspection and I said, our goal is to create films that inform and inspire. That was my bottom line goal. And I hope to inform and inspire thousands and then millions of folks through my art. And I've seen filmmakers that I look up to do the same thing. And I would, I would see that as success. Being able to have a sustaining filmmaking career. I'm 29 now. If I'm able to.
Make films for another 40 years. I'm 69 years old at that point. I've been making films for that long. I won, especially if I have a family with me, my wife, my kids, like I won. And I think that's what success looks like for me. The ability to tell stories, at any scale for a long period of time.
Shawn Antoine II (44:30.67)
Let's go for 100 now.
Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because I'm curious, like, cause there's things that are in control and things that are not in your control. I just, I got done speaking with Jack Newell a couple of weeks ago and released this episode today, but this idea of like, you are a painter, even if you're not actively at the canvas, you are a filmmaker, even if you're not, you know, on set. So, you know, like there's a lot of things that are out of your control. I guess I have a question around the heartbreak of, you know, wanting millions to see it, but.
It may happen. may not happen. So how do you temper external goals versus internal drive or internal motivation?
That's a great question. You know, I think the big thing when I think about, you know, external goals versus internal motivation is how do I feel? You know, I was showing one of my old films yesterday to a foster home out in Brooklyn, and I haven't watched that film in like seven years. And, you know, it got hit with COVID towards like the middle of our festival run, and I was just so disappointed, and the film just did so well. And my internal motivations were...
I want to have this turned into a feature. want to do all of these things, but, you know, externally it wasn't happening. And I had to be happy enough with the fact that it had an audience. loved the film and this is, was the outcome of my circumstances. It was nothing that I can control. Right. And I think that's that for me, that's how I have to balance it. I can't, I have to do all I can to make sure that the film is getting to the people that can program it, that can possibly pick it up, that can review it, whatever.
Shawn Antoine II (46:07.138)
But ultimately, it's not, it's above me. I can't do anything about it. And I have to be happy enough and feel content enough with the fact that I did everything I could to give this film as much life as it can. know, indirectly, even while I was studying filmmaking and I didn't study filmmaking in undergrad, but I was studying public relations. So I kind of like made sure that I was as well equipped to try to make my dreams and my films seen as possible. So I do all my PR stuff for my films. I do all my marketing. So at least I'm like,
I'm going go 110 % without a publicist because I know how to do these things. And if it's up to me, this thing is going to be sent to every festival in the world. But that's kind of how I try to manage these internal versus external expectations. But also like, I mean, my whole life, my parents have instilled in me like, you got to believe in yourself and you got to have faith. You don't believe, it ain't never going to happen. And you ultimately got to have faith because look, if you don't, nobody's going to believe in you. And most of the times where I come from,
the, I've already exceeded expectations. So now at this point, where else can you go? Believe, dream bigger. And I'm still telling myself, even today, I was like, I ain't dreaming big enough.
I mean, you got one life to live, right? And it's, that's, that's it. It's like the, then to celebrate it with the gift that you've been given, the talents you've developed and the talents you've been given to do that maybe as consistently or bravely as possible. Cause I do think it's an adventure, right? and the know, like you're like, that's it. you got, if you're lucky, you have family. If you're even luckier, you have friends. And if you're the luckiest, you have a community, but if you don't have all that, you just have yourself. But it's like, if no one's going to believe in you.
unless you kind of do that. So I think that's a solid kind of way to at least advocate for yourself to have a point of view where you're like, yeah, this is something I want to commit to and play in that adventure.
Shawn Antoine II (47:55.202)
Yeah. And it's two quotes. got it on my email. Like it says, if the elevator doesn't work, take the stairs. And another quote that I tell all my friends while I was in grad school, I probably was the most optimistic one in film school. Everybody's so sad during these times. And I used to just instill this in my friends. like, look, I used to lie. I don't know if Michael Jordan said this quote, but I used to say Michael Jordan, greatest basketball player, maybe the greatest athlete of all time used to say you miss a thousand percent of the shots you don't take.
That was great.
Shawn Antoine II (48:24.035)
So go risk it, go for it, dream bigger. If you make it, you're winner. You won the championship. If you miss it, shoot, pick up the ball, shoot again.
Right. Yeah. And I also think it's like, are you playing the game of life? Are you, are you willing to play, play the game rather than, well, I missed my shot. I'll just put the basketball down the court and walk away from the court and then, you know, just watch it, guess. When it comes to delegation, like what's your relationship with that? you know, do you also edit your own projects? You also said you're, you're on your PR person on the indie level. So what's your relationship with the, challenges of either delegation or trusting others to like.
Yeah, absolutely.
Mishu Hilmy (49:01.833)
do things on your behalf.
Yeah, I think first things first, always look at what's in the budget. If the money ain't there to hire an editor, which 90 % of the time, maybe 95 % of the times it hasn't been, I'll edit. And I love editing. I've gotten so good at it because, you know, I was watching movies so often for like the story lens. But then after I watched enough movies, I like now I feel the story. But then now as I watch movies, I'm like, oh, I like that edit.
I mean, I was just watching from dust to die last week. I was like, Robert Rodriguez always one of my favorite filmmakers. But then I realized that he edited the film and I was like, wow, that was some good cuts he did. And, you know, delegating is one of those things like I've now started to make music in some films like for those that live there, the Cabrini Green project. I made the music for that for Green Bay. made the music, but I love collaboration for the site. I hired two composers because I said.
Y'all are both amazing and I want to see y'all work together, but it's just being, knowing your limits. Like I wasn't going to be here. Like I already did a lot on the film. was like, all right, we got to get the music people. We got to get a colorist cause I'm not best colors. I don't want to learn. There's people that do this and understanding like where I lack who can support me. If I'm down here, like, all right, let's find the money to make sure that people can lift up the project. And, you know, delegation is one of those things that, like I mentioned before, I got.
much better at after learning for some really good people. And yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's difficult though. It's difficult, especially for filmmakers. Indeed. I do everything by themselves. It's hard.
Mishu Hilmy (50:35.052)
Yeah. Especially if there's an identity component of like, well, if I didn't, if I'm not editing it, then I'm not the filmmaker. Like I didn't know, I think that took a long time for me to get over, but there's something, there's something empowering about, you know, the shared, the shared vision or you got enough, you got enough footage to kind of express. also it's a dialogue you're supervising or you're discussing with your editor. I also think the benefit of editing is like when you're on site, you're like, this is good. know this is going to be hard to cut. So I better like get.
get as many angles on this person walking in or whatever.
mean, on the site unseen, they'll tell you, mean, they knew my, like my DPs was like, he's definitely, they were cracking jokes there. I was like, yeah, I'm a higher editor. They're like, Sean, the way you directing us right now, and we know you, they're like, you getting these shots for coverage. I was like, yeah, I know. I was like, I know what's going to cut together. I'll be sitting there and I'll be like, yeah, I speak to my AD. I was like, yeah, that's not going to cut. We got to shoot this anger really quickly because like it helps though. mean.
If you know the shots and you editing it, you're like, this works, this works, or there's going to be a gap here that you're to have to fill with something. Yeah. I would say that's one of the most empowering things for me is that, you know, you write the film, you direct it or shoot it, and then you get into that editing process and you can speak to this too. Then you find out what your movie is. You figure it out. You're putting together these pieces. You're trying to make a whole puzzle. You're trying to make that puzzle work, even when the pieces don't fit your life.
But let's bend this, cut it up and put it back together. yeah, editing is just so rewarding. And yeah, I wish more filmmakers edited their own films, but you know, some were very blessed. So shout out to them. But for others, it's just so beautiful to be able to be like, yeah, I edited it. This is my hand. This is my blood, sweat and tears in this piece.
Mishu Hilmy (52:22.464)
Yeah. Yeah. It's, I think, you know, every artist is different. I, I'm, I'm maybe a bit on the Maxis side of like, love, I love this medium so much that I, you know, I even learned grading. Like I'm not the best grader, but I learned how to do it. How would it, I wouldn't charge anyone for it. Cause I, you know, I thought that good, but other people, just like, no, they don't even want to write the script. They just want to show up to a set and, you know, direct, which is great. And then supervise post-production, which is also fine. I love the, the, just the depth of.
learning of like, right, I want to learn every element of this strange art form.
for sure. And I think that's the old school way of filming. I think that way may be dying now. People can, I mean, I was teaching a class at Northwestern. I was teaching editing and stuff. And then I realized, I was like, y'all know how to edit. Y'all were 18 years old. They were like, yeah. They were like, can we, can you teach us how to do these transitions on this software? Cause they do it on their phones. Everybody knows how to edit now. Editing is not this complicated thing. Everybody knows how to edit, even if it's not on the proper software or whatever.
Yeah
Shawn Antoine II (53:24.748)
Everybody's doing it in some sense. So now what I imagine there's going to be a whole, mean, there's already happening, but there's going be many more filmmakers to come in the future that are going be editing their own projects. And it'll help everybody. It'll help the studio save some money. It'll help the filmmakers make more money. It may hurt the editors, but there's still be people there that, you know, want to work with an editor.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My cynical take is like the, the kind of the disease of the multi-hyphenate pressure is the money. People are like, nah, instead of having two people employees, like, no, just one and you're charged for half, you know, so that's, that's the cynical take. I do think there's, they'll hopefully continue to be expertise. And then just to wrap things up, like, I know we chatted about it briefly, but you know, given how uncertain the filmmaking industry is in the creative industry and the world is.
Like how do you stay motivated, you know, practicing your craft?
One, I live in the movie theaters. one thing that I remember I interviewed years ago to be this producer who's on this NBC show, went to be his assistant and he looked at me and he said, you got a lot of this stuff on your resume. He was like, do you watch films? I was like, yeah. He was like, they start naming films. I was like, haven't seen it. He was like, how do you expect to be the future of film where you don't even know the past? And that woke me up.
to stay motivated, I'm always like, I remember what that guy said to me. And I'm like, I will never, I felt a little embarrassed, but I used that in my brain. I'm like, yeah, he embarrassed me. feel bad, and he didn't give me the job. So I was like, now I'm like, that is motivating me to be like, I need to love this crap. And I love it so much. I sit in the theaters, even movies I hate, I'm like, watch it. And that motivates me so much to just be like, beyond even making the film, I have to love watching it.
Shawn Antoine II (55:14.914)
I feel like that's even a lost art form is like just the fact that just sitting in a theater and just immersing yourself. And that motivates me tremendously. also, I mean, you kind of hinted at it earlier, just like how do I stay motivated or just outside of being on set? It's talking to people. I talk to a lot of people in my community. People in this neighborhood have seen me grown up and I embark and engage in so many conversations.
about how people are doing, their lives, what's happening. As a filmmaker, know, everybody knows me as I know, they're like, you should hit his story. They want to tell me stories. So that keeps me motivated. I'm like, that'd be a good movie. That's interesting. I'm visualizing mentally what that could look like, even as they're speaking to me. And that motivates me so much to just be like, man, I'm a storyteller. I'm always, think everybody as an artist now, you hear like this new word creative. Everybody uses, we're using all these different words, but like for me, I guess the word that I'm kind of leaning towards and.
my practice as an artist is really like, I'm a storyteller and that's motivated me so much as identifying as a storyteller and someone who's even somewhat of a historian, right? And that's kind of the things that keep me motivated. It's like, even when I'm not shooting, I'm visualizing what's happening and what could have happened.
Totally. mean, storyteller, historian, cause I think you just, you just got me thinking of like something fundamental. Like we're sitting around a campfire telling stories. not, we're not just standing in the corner being creative by ourselves. We're not creatives with the back of the fireplace glowing at our backs. We're sitting around with people, you know, and that's a degree of community making and what makes it hard at sort of the scalability of this medium.
It can become a bit anonymous for, for profit versus like the beauty of it is like, you're also conserved a community with a very lovely story. So I think that's a great kind of sense of integrity to the historian element, the storytelling element, and it's not maybe purely ego. I just happen to be creative, you know? All right. Well, Sean, yeah, it was absolutely lovely to get to chat. It's been a real delight.
Shawn Antoine II (57:13.695)
Absolutely
Shawn Antoine II (57:18.67)
Yes, thank you so much. Definitely glad you gave me the opportunity to speak about my new project and my practice and look forward to seeing you in the work as well, man.
Mishu Hilmy (57:32.878)
Before sending you off with a little creative prompt, I just wanted to say thank you for listening to Mischief and Mastery. If you enjoyed this show, please rate it and leave a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. Your support does mean a lot. Until next time, keep taking care of yourself, your lightness, curiosity, and sense of play. And now for a little Mischief motivation.
Alrighty, let's give you a prompt. Hope you enjoy this one. Recreate the invisible. Pick a moment in your life that's never been captured on camera and reimagine it visually, whether through a sketch, a few storyboard frames, or write up a description of light and movement. Play around with episodic simulation, just a fun way to deepen your empathy of yourself and maybe even others and creative recall. So give that a shot. Sketch or write up, frame up, doodle.
a moment in your life that might not have been captured in cinema. Heck, make a little poem. See how that works. All right. Thanks for listening this far. Hope you have a great rest of your day.