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Pathways To Spirit is hosted by Dr. Troy Melendez and Dr. Nate Velez of Journey to Recovery, offering an inside look at the people, practices, and purpose behind a culturally grounded approach to healing from addiction. Through conversations with the Journey to Recovery team, the podcast explores the program’s history, its new facility, and the clinical and cultural principles that guide their work. Pathways To Spirit provides a welcoming space to learn how Community, culture, and connection support the recovery journey, and how this program is shaping a path toward wellness and a deeper sense of spirit.
Welcome to Pathways to Spirit. Our journey today seeks to honor the sacred land, revered teachings, and ancestral wisdom that guide us through the path of mental health wellness and holistic recovery. Together we'll explore the stories of strength, healing and hope, embracing the clinical techniques and cultural foundations that remind us we are never alone on this sacred journey toward wellness and a strong personal connection to spirit. Welcome back to Pathways to Spirit. I'm Doctor.
Troy:Troy Melendez, and I'm here with my cohost.
Nate:This is Doctor. Nate. How are you doing, Doctor. Melendez?
Troy:Doing well, doing well. We got a guest in the studio today, Miss Jessica Hunter. You want to say hello to the folks?
Jessica:I'm so
Jessica:glad to be here. It's very exciting for me. First time on the podcast.
Troy:Oh, wow. Okay. That's great. So yeah, we just wanted to invite you in and have a little bit of a conversation about kind of what you've been doing lately and kind of the new position and why don't you start a little bit by telling us about how you got here?
Jessica:How I got here?
Troy:Yeah.
Jessica:Well, I have been serving the community now for just over seven years, so I'm in my eighth year. It's been a journey for me, so I actually came in counseling midlife. So this is my second life. So when my son was in middle school, I decided I wanted to go back and start a new career. So I went back to graduate school.
Jessica:And then since that time, gosh, it's been fifteen plus years ago, I started working with Indians for Wellness, the American Indian Prevention Coalition, and then with Gila River, primarily working with youth in I a PHP since went on to work in residential, everywhere from about five through the lifespan. And then prior to coming here, I was working at a neuropsych practice. But Oh, my passion has always been, I would probably call myself a trauma therapist.
Troy:Okay.
Jessica:And for those who are in the field, primarily EMDR, so eye movement desensitization reprocessing, which is now a very well known trauma But I would call myself a trauma therapist, I've always been fascinated with how do you get to the other side of trauma, which is resilience. And so in my work here now at Salt River, I've had the opportunity to work in different groups and different partners with counsel, with different directors, with the ACMs, and explore like how do we build this trauma informed community. So I started that in my previous roles. I started as a behavioral health services manager and then I grew into the division chief for adult and family services outpatient. Then recently I've stepped into the role of behavioral health clinical administrator.
Jessica:I get the opportunity now to work with the outpatient team and journey to recovery and how can we bridge some of those resilience commonality, especially when you talk about recovery. Resilience and recovery. So, that's my passion. And I do that in a lot of different ways that I don't even think.
Nate:You light up when you even say the word. Right? Yeah. You get excited, and so I think that's what really attracts people to you in our environment, right? It just kind of comes out.
Nate:You've done a lot. I think you started with Joe.
Jessica:Yeah, started on the same day.
Nate:So started with So our boss
Jessica:all in the neo gov whatever new employee orientations together.
Nate:Yeah. Well, you're doing a lot for the community and I think you're kind of, you know, you're humbly speaking about just the role you've played in also helping with the directors and their ACMs and the trauma informed care movement, and so it's been a lot. And so one of the things that I've really enjoyed is watching Jess develop into her current role, because we knew that we knew I think I can say this in my current role, is I knew and we knew that we really wanted to have some clinical integrity and standards of care and practice around what we're doing and so you're really bringing that to our division, which has been awesome now. Some of the things you've also been doing is we put you in charge of we have a big initiative right now with traditional healing and culture and wellness and talk to us about some of that work you're doing and how relevant that is to the community in our department.
Jessica:Yeah. So this is very exciting and kind of evolved over the last few years, but I kind of think of this as a culmination of several initiatives from behavioral health and HHS in general. One primarily, which I think if you come to any behavioral health training or you hear us speak or hear about some of our services, you'll hear this term called the two eyed approach. And so, that really just means blending indigenous wisdom, the ways that we've known to work in a community for centuries with evidence based practice, the scientific world, what we study when we get our master's degrees. And so, from my perspective, and I think as we especially working in recovery, we know that we cannot live in just evidence based practice.
Jessica:We know that the pathway to healing and I guess the spiritual journey to healing will always come back to the cultural ways and indigenous wisdom of traditional healing. So now that things have evolved in kind of the healthcare industry and they're starting to recognize that, we have this unique opportunity to really harness that now. So yes, I'm on a team with two behavioral health cultural counselors, Bui Leonard and Jared Lewis. And they are able to take basically all the wisdom that they grew up in. And now how do we implement that into the practice?
Jessica:So we're taking the whole body approach, the mind, body, spirit. And in my opinion too, when you think about some of the HHS initiatives like the five and five, what are the key components to longevity and extending lifespan to health span?
Troy:Sure,
Jessica:it always comes back to culture, social connection, community, community. And so all of that comes together, I think, in a really nice way for us at Behavioral Health, at least, so we can start infusing that into everything that we do.
Nate:Yeah, we were it's really cool to see. I mean, we've been I've always called it the X factor. Well, one of the X factors of what we do and, you know, culture overlays everything and we talk a lot about just culturally adapting our care and our models to There's research out there that talks about when culturally tailor and adapt evidence based work, it actually enhances reuptake with indigenous members. So we're certainly doing that here and it's exciting to see. We were also part of a meeting yesterday, Troy, that was really cool because, what we've done in behavioral health and these concepts of two eyed seeing and sweet grass method and our stickiness approach culture.
Nate:We had a meeting with, primary care yesterday. And so this is starting to blend downstairs in River People Health Centers, it's Right, becoming something
Troy:right. Yeah, I think the opportunity is there and we'd be remiss to skip over it. I mean, we're in this community that's been here forever and we're bringing new practices in, but to be able to communicate those practices in a way that people are going to understand and recall and it fits in to the culture and the community here. I was real excited when Bowie moved into the cultural counselor position because that is something that we're really striving for at JTR is to be able to communicate and present these evidence based practices in a more traditional way, in a way utilizing that previous learning and experience with these new practices. So it's been great, I'm looking forward to the future and doing more of it, but we're off to a great start.
Nate:Yeah, one of the things that we really want people to really know what's coming is like we have now, Jessica touched on this, but Arizona in particular is one of four states in the entire country that, the reimbursement system has recognized traditional healing as a service that can be provided. So as we take these steps with our leaders and our council and they're able to kind of help direct us to the right places, I think it's just going to continue being a nice evolution of a whole another service line.
Jessica:Yeah, and more so than anything, what I was really appreciative about some of the changes in the reimbursement is I think I was a little bit nervous about, Okay, well, who defines And traditional that can be very tricky. But I think here, in this case in Arizona, they are respecting tribal sovereignty. And so, have a place now where the community can decide what defines traditional healing. So, I think that makes it that really creates opportunities for us to start working with other systems in the community to come together and say, Well, what does that mean? How can we make it inclusive?
Jessica:How can we respect different tribal practices? Not only because we are in a tribe that has two tribes, O'odham and Piposh, but also because, you know, at River People and HHS and Journey to Recovery, we do serve people from any tribal community. I think it gives us a lot of flexibility. But at the end of the day, I don't know it for in the behavioral health field. If you worked in it, you've heard this phrase for years.
Jessica:Meet me where I am
Troy:right.
Jessica:And to me, healing is the embodiment of that working within a tribal community.
Troy:Definitely, yeah.
Nate:Yeah, it's really good stuff and you know I want to give a plug to some of the elders and council members that have been part of our journey in this development. So let's consider the new JTR, right? So we had a couple of spaces in the new JTR that we hadn't designated what they should be on the outside of the facility. And so, we started thinking about there was original design on the Northwest side of the females, the female house. When I looked at that design, it was a pretty expensive design and it was just a bunch of rocks in a path, in a circle, and we paused that.
Nate:And so we said, 'Nah, we could do something different here with the funds that have been allocated.' And so, we all started talking about gardening and food because the land is so important to the community here, right? So then we actually asked for some consultation from Councilman Butler and community member Thosh and Amson and all these folks who grow things and have knowledge of these things. So, anyway, you think about some of those things and I took a video the other day of we're getting ready to open our garden and it's absolutely gorgeous, but those are some of just the anecdotal things that are how this translates to actual practice, you know. It's really cool. It's really cool.
Nate:There's nowhere else that does this.
Troy:No, no. And I've heard of some programs that do incorporate gardening in recovery, and it's a very powerful experience for them nurture something Yeah. Learn how to nurture And it's really just bringing, I think it's not that we don't ever have these skills, think we just forget it in what we get ourselves involved in in life and especially when we're talking about addiction, you get so lost in and that it's a process of remembering and when we're doing things gardening, the body helps the mind to remember. We get in those old situations and we maybe recall when, Oh, I used to do this with a grandparent or an uncle or an auntie or somebody, and it'll bring back that place that we were able to enjoy and we were more productive, you know, before we got into Totally, the
Nate:man. I've always kinda used that analogy is that, you know, we put things on a shelf when we're in our addiction. It's really about getting those things back off the shelf and dusting them off and incorporating them back into our lives and that's what maintenance is all about, right? And so, I agree with you, I just think that all these things that we're actually teaching are always have always been there. Right.
Nate:And so we neglect those things and so our patients are able to kinda really be healthy, start thinking, be reintroduced to basic concepts of living. Right. And a lot of those things come back to them.
Troy:Yeah, very much so.
Nate:Pretty cool. It's a gift to be able to do that in community.
Troy:Yeah, it looks great. I like the garden.
Nate:Oh, it's amazing. That area is beautiful. Well, the other side, did you see the area that's gonna be for the two sweat lodges? One for women, one for men. And then here's another example like there was there was a lot of money and funds for a big wire gate around the lodges and so, you know, we took some input from Dosh and and those guys and said, what about a live Ocotillo, fence?
Nate:And so I went back there the other day and you look at the Ocotillo back there.
Troy:It's amazing.
Nate:Yeah. So you just get this feel of of, just home and comfort and stillness and all these awesome things that you get to heal in environment. It's really neat.
Troy:Yeah, that's what I like the most about the new JTR facility. For as big and shiny and new and state of the art things are, the feeling is very familiar and it's a healing space and it's, you know, we do have that kind of your home feeling. And I think these, especially these two external areas really add to that.
Nate:Oh, just amazed. So you you said something earlier Jess, like you made a life changing career trajectory, right? And so looking back fifteen years and do you ever think like, Oh my gosh, this journey and where you're at today and everything, what do you think about that change and what's it been like to where you're at today?
Jessica:Where I stand today, if I were to look back, cause it was a bumpy road.
Troy:Yeah, they're all bumpy, right?
Jessica:Today, I'm so thankful for like all the other learnings I've had and and it all comes together. Like I think there's this intersection of like I do. You know, some people call me a little woo woo, but I do believe in purpose. I do believe the universe kind of guides you in certain ways. So I do believe that like with my work today, am very have a lot of gratitude for the ability to be in a place where I I would call us very progressive and innovative.
Jessica:And sometimes you don't always get that opportunity. But when I look back to when I started, I remember my first my first ever counseling session when I was in practicum.
Troy:Mhmm.
Jessica:I I thought I was gonna die. Like and I'm I'm like, how do people do this? How do
Troy:Right.
Jessica:And and but that's part of the process, right? And and you get and and to me, if I if I were to give myself advice, go back in time, I would say it all comes down You know, we use this term therapeutic rapport in the relationship. But I would say, just as true as that is with the way we view the two eyed approach and culture in general, it all comes back to that relationship.
Troy:Right.
Jessica:And if you can create a space where people feel seen and heard, great things can happen.
Nate:Oh, it's true. And there's data that says that, It's like, you know, you think about change and how much of the variance and change accounts for the relationship and that's why we always preach, it's on your shirt connect, support, love and hope. That's the philosophy of love and stickiness and so the research supports that. What I really am impressed about is like all the things we've designed that are intentional and not on accident and then how that translates to it translates to how awesome the results are. You know we have I love seeing we call it you you walk up the ramp.
Nate:There's a lot of folks who've walked up the ramp. A lot of folks who've walked up the ramp in Journey to Recovery those folks are working for us now. Right. And so just amazing testimony to what you just described as relationship and healing. And then you think about the title of our podcast, Pathways to Spirit.
Nate:Like there's so many pathways to get there. And one thing I think we all agree on, we honor all those pathways.
Troy:Yeah, right.
Nate:And we actually try and innovate to have them. Oh, You most mentioned innovation. Would you see it differently?
Troy:No, no. I think that that's exactly what we do. And I think, you know, when we were coming up with this concept for the podcast, that's what we had in mind. There are, you know, there's lots of ways to get there. I think it's also the focus, because I think spirit, kind of to your point with how I get a, that sometimes people tell me I'm a little woo woo and stuff, I think spirit gets neglected.
Troy:You know, either it's out of fear of, well, we might offend and we've got so many different varied religious beliefs or spiritual beliefs. Now we take this approach and know we have to engage that, so then how do we do that? How do we do it from your perspective, from your perspective, or from a perspective that honors everybody's path? And I think we're off to a great start with that, and especially as we see folks from other communities coming into JTR and encountering that need for Spirit, the connection with spirit and the growth in that regard, I think what we're putting into place is going to make that much easier for them to realize that in that space. So, excited about it.
Jessica:Very exciting. You you talked about, obviously I read a lot about our psychology, mental health, all of these things. And when you think about components of resilience and how do you get people to go from feeling like they're surviving to thriving.
Troy:Right.
Jessica:I've been interested in this concept of safety, And so, safety is a big part of trauma informed care, but what I'm really interested in now is the concepts of vulnerability and bravery as opposed to safety. And so, think there's components of vulnerability and bravery that are embedded in culture that I think we can harness in that respect. So, as we kind of move into this evolution of recovery and resilience, I'm very excited in that area where maybe we don't rely on safety so much, but we challenge ourselves to be a little vulnerable and brave to take that next step.
Troy:Yeah, you bring up a great point with that. I was just talking with a counselor that had an experience and she said, that it helped her to realize how kind of monumental it is for someone to come in and be vulnerable and express that emotion that they've been holding onto. That is a very, very important thing for the patient coming in. That if they can be vulnerable to somebody, relationship is just solidified. Like in doing that, they've signified to the counselor, I trust you.
Troy:I'm going to give you something I've never given to anybody else. And it's just an amazing thing to see that they are able to take that step. We create that safe environment. We create a welcoming, you know, rapport between them and the counselor and then they're able to take that step in a safe way and it really solidifies that bond because now they've got somebody that is like, Okay, I've told you things that nobody else knows about me and I can trust you to help me move through the other things that I'm dealing with.
Nate:That's pretty cool. You know, you talk about that and then I think about from a patient's perspective, right? With other people that they're sharing this recovery journey with. Like right now we have 42, 41, 42 in a 48 bed facility that's just on the residential side and we have you know our recovery management detox facilities pretty much always at 70% capacity. So what I am fascinated about is the ability, the power of the group to start healing each other, right?
Nate:And being able to be vulnerable, not only in an intimate space with a therapist but then I'm starting to actually be intimate and safe and vulnerable and brave with my cohorts that I'm going through this journey with. And so, I like those concepts because we lean into them not only as therapists but we teach them but we also lean into them as leaders. Mean Jess and I, we've read a couple of books together and what's her name? Brene Brown talks about these concepts a lot, right?
Jessica:Daring to lead.
Nate:Daring to lead and leaning into running to your discomfort and leaning into what makes you feel uncomfortable. So, you know, think the power behind what you just talked about, and when you multiply that and you extrapolate that into a therapeutic milieu, we have staff facilitating that process, It's magical, it's when you stop and talk about it for me, when I stop and talk about it and think about it, I'm like, Oh man, what a thing that we've built and it's continuing to build itself back. And to me that's true legacy. It's not the Los Angeles Lakers legacy, right? It's like, this is legacy, This is system Uh-huh.
Nate:Sustainability. It'll outlast people like all of us here in the room. Right? That's the goal. That's the goal.
Nate:Yes. Is to give something back to the community, the gift that keeps on giving, and that's with the people. And I love that that's what we're doing. It's really amazing work. And you're a huge part of that Jess, you know we wanted to have you on here today, because you exude that, you lead that, you call that forth in other people.
Nate:And I certainly appreciate it as leader of behavioral health but I also feel like you both are leading as partners alongside me. But that's a gift and I know when we talk about Bowie and Jared, what they're experiencing and what they're growing. Know, you know, that's really cool. It's just an amazing thing. It's got to fill your cup.
Jessica:It does. And I appreciate, I feel like we're in an environment, especially with Bowie and Jared, where they're generous with what they share. And I don't think anything could be happening if we didn't have allies and we didn't have partners and community partners who are willing to share their knowledge and be generous with it in a way that supports healing. So, again, I said of for where I am today and a lot of that is because people have been very generous in sharing their knowledge with me that I can harness in a way that supports healing and recovery.
Troy:Yes, definitely. Well, thanks for joining us. This has been a great conversation. We're excited to, you know, where all this work is going. We will definitely have you back here.
Troy:You'll be a regular guest here as things evolve and grow. Certainly through this discussion, I think it's very important that we bring those cultural counselors in. Absolutely. Talk a little bit about how this has evolved from their perspective. Thank you for joining us.
Troy:This Thank has been a fantastic conversation. We really appreciate you and we look forward to having you back.
Jessica:Thank you very much.
Nate:Alright, good one, thanks.
Troy:Alright folks, that's it for this episode. I'm Doctor. Troy Melendez. This is Doctor. V.
Troy:Thanks for joining us and we'd love to have you back. Be well. Thank you for joining us on Pathways to Spirit. Remember, within our traditions and our spirit lies connection, support, love, and hope. Let us walk forward together, honoring our paths and supporting one another on the journey toward physical, emotional, and spiritual health and wholeness.
Troy:Until next time, may the spirits of the ancestors guide you and may you find peace, healing, and renewal in every step along your journey.