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Left Out Loud is a progressive political podcast breaking down the biggest stories shaping our democracy. From up-to-the-minute political news and midterm election coverage to in-depth interviews with grassroots Democratic candidates, the show spotlights the voices and movements fighting for real change. Smart, informed, and unapologetically loud, Left Out Loud pairs sharp analysis with humor and plain-spoken commentary, cutting through the noise to focus on what actually matters. If you care about elections, organizing, and the future of the Democratic Party—and you like your politics with a little personality—this is the podcast for you.
Craig Swallow, welcome to Left Out Loud.
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Thank you for having me.
I'm such a pleasure to be here.
So Craig, you are running for Congress
in Massachusetts 9th District.
Correct.
Um, and we talked a little bit
before we started recording.
You said that's more coastal
area of Massachusetts.
So for the audience, just a quick overview
of what your district consists of.
Yeah, for sure.
So if you're thinking Massachusetts,
you think of that little-- that arm.
I'm all that arm, the islands,
um, and then what's called
South Shore and South Coast.
So, uh, it goes out almost to your island
to a town called Westport, and then
up and over to a town called Cohasset.
So it is substantial.
It has the islands, you know,
a lot of coastal community, um,
but obviously a lot of farmland,
interior, uh, uh, demographic as well.
So it is a, it is a substantially
large district, but I think like
most districts, it is a microcosm
of everywhere else in the country as
well.
Yeah.
Yeah, it sounds like it.
Um, okay, so I like to start
kind of in the beginning.
I always love to read bios of candidates,
and something about your bio sort
of jumped out at me right away.
Um, your family on your mother's side fled
Portugal in the '60s to come to America.
Portugal at that time, for the
audience, was under authoritarian rule.
Um, I believe they called that
regime, was it Estado Novo?
Um, and it was just a
corporatist dictatorship.
So your mother and her parents came here
in the '60s, um, looking for freedom,
obviously, and, and, and pursuit of
happiness and all the reasons that
immigrants are welcome to our shores.
And I'm just curious because over the
last six years, we have seen in our
country, um, we've seen the Supreme Court
get stacked with radical right justices.
We've seen the overturning of Roe v. Wade.
Most recently, we've seen, um, the
gutting of the Voting Rights Act.
We're recording this on the seventeenth,
and just yesterday they had All Roads Lead
to the South, um, a day of demonstrations
in Cessna-- neck of the woods in,
at Selma and Montgomery, Alabama.
And I'm just curious, like how your
origin story kind of shapes your
view, or does it shape your view for
some of the, the threats to democracy
and the erosion of rights that we're
seeing under this Trump second term?
Yeah.
You know, growing up with being in
New Bedford, Massachusetts, which is
a very large Portuguese population,
and being, you know, 40, so '90s
baby, I think there was a bit of a, a
societal focus on we are a melting pot.
We include immigrants, and, you know, it
is part of the American story and part
of what makes everything, makes us great.
And growing up, that was very
much, for me, my identifier.
I, I, I was very proud of my grandparents.
I can remember going out to
restaurants locally in New Bedford
where my grandparents would be- know
everyone, everyone would know them.
They'd be like, "They're from our
village back home." Like, it was
just such a, a, a community building,
um, of, like, growing up here.
Like, I felt like I was
part of something larger.
Like, I knew my grandparents
had, had taken a risk and
made sacrifice to come here.
Mm-hmm.
And so I think seeing what everything is
happening now, I, I think of the last even
20 years of where that shift has come,
and I think a lot of that starts from 9/11
in which we have just allowed legislation
to take hold that just really leaned
into the fear and the worry of the other.
Um, you know, I'm a history major.
I studied propaganda, war propaganda, and
politics as my focus in my, my colloquium
at Bridgewater State University.
And so I see that basic sort of
focus on that other person is the
problem, and, and, and those are
the, the people we need to focus on
when that is not the issue to me.
To me, it is we're, we're looking left and
right, and we need to start looking up.
And so I think starting to rally
working-class people together to
see that we are not each other's
problem, we are each other's saviors.
We are the ones who are going to
save and take care of each other.
We cannot rely on current politicians,
the wealthy, anyone else to come in here
and fix what is happening right now.
We need to step in, and we need to
raise our voice and, and make sure that
the government represents who we are.
Mm-hmm.
And so I think when I see what's
happening right now, I... It's part
of my story that, you know, look, I,
I'm also a dual citizen with Portugal.
Yeah.
So there have been discussions before with
my husband of, you know, is this something
that we stay and, and, and live through?
Mm-hmm.
Do we pursue somewhere else?
And to me, I, I think of my grandparents,
and I think of the sacrifice they took
and, and that this is not something
you can run away from, really.
This is something that will follow
you at some point or another,
whether it's you, a grandchild.
And so for me, it's we stay, and we
shape this country into what we want
it to be and what we know it can be
and what its ideals and values and
morals set out in the Declaration
of Independence are supposed to be.
And so that's kind of what guides me in
this whole, you know, process in running
for Congress.
Yeah.
And that's really honorable
and admirable, the fact that
you have that dual citizenship.
You could very easily say, "You
know what?" Things are not going
great, I mean, all the way around.
You know, the economy, um, the division,
all of it is heavy for all of us.
So the fact that you're leaning into
the fight, um, and, and honoring
your, your origin story and your
grandparents in that way is, um, unique.
I think that's the first candidate we've
talked to that has that story, and,
um, and just, yeah, really admirable.
Thank you.
I, I, you know, I, I
don't see it that way.
I think it, it's just,
it's the right thing to do.
Mm-hmm.
And I think, I do think ultimately it's
what my grandparents would tell me to do.
I don't think they fled because
they didn't wanna stay and fight.
I think they fled because
that was their option.
Yeah.
And so I think they would be really
proud to see their grandson staying
here and, and deciding that, you
know, their home that I'm in is,
is worth staying and fighting for.
My family, to my community, you know,
the American dream, all of that is
worth staying and, and all of us being
involved in fighting for, whether you
are, you know, doing postcarding or, you
know, you're in your local Indivisible
group, or if you're running for office.
There is no part of this
that is not important.
I agree
Greg, I gotta ask you, 'cause I mean,
living in Ma- in Massachusetts, it cannot
be easy, uh, to get along in this day and
age, affordability being such a big deal.
But Massachusetts in particular is
one of the most, uh, the highest
in terms of cost of living.
Uh, real estate is pretty
high, highly priced up there.
Uh, as a- as affordability is part
of your platform, you talk about
incrementalism and how it's kinda
left the working class behind.
And I, and I want the, I want you to
kinda explain that a little bit to our,
to our viewers, because incrementalism
itself is a, is a good system, but it's
left the working man behind because
inflation is out the wazoo, real
estate, rental, uh, stuff is, is crazy.
And so can you talk
about that a little bit?
Yeah, for sure.
I, I think when I think about
incrementalism, it's this idea that,
you know, politicians have been running
on... Let's just think of something like
healthcare, especially we're talking
about affordability here a little bit.
Mm-hmm.
Politicians, even my represent- my, the
person, the incumbent I am challenging
right now, have been running on
the same issues for over 20 years.
"We're gonna deliver healthcare for
the American people that is affordable
and accessible," and yet here we are
in 2026, and we still do not have it.
And so incremental, incrementalism
to me a little bit is even the
afford- the Affordable Care Act.
Like, did it get people
on health insurance?
Did it take care of, of
some of those issues?
Yes.
But we are still back in that same
issue, fighting over healthcare and
saying that we can't afford it, or
it's just not gonna work, or that other
countries can't do it, and we can.
We have the money.
If we can spend a billion dollars a
day in a war in Iran that nobody here
wants, it's, it w- there's no end to it.
There's no way that we come out
of this on the winning side.
And I just believe that Republicans
and Democrats have used this, if we
just give an inch, you know what I
mean, they will request the mile.
And so I'm here to request the mile.
We're not going to just bring
back the Affordable Care Act.
We're going to bring a
single-payer healthcare system.
We're gonna do Medicare for All.
We are going to make sure that 50%
of this country doesn't fall into
bankruptcy because of a medical emergency,
which is the, the truth right now.
And so for me, incrementalism is
not... You know, being on the campaign
trail and asked a lot, "What's the
one thing you're gonna focus on?"
And I think that's part of the issue
that we've seen with Democrats, is that
they, we- we can do this one thing, but
we can't do all these other things that
make a life affordable in the United
States, especially here in Massachusetts.
And so for me, it's, it's going in
there and being like, "We're not only
are we going to pass Medicare for All
and make sure that Americans have an
affordable and accessible healthcare,
we're going to change infrastructure.
We're going to re- revamp education
systems so the education system actually
provides youth with a future that is not
them just going into debt by going into
college." There are other options for
them, whether it be a trade or knowing
how to open up their own business.
I just think there are a multitude of
paths, as someone who's a former educator,
that we could be providing for students
that isn't just pigeonholing them into
one option, um, and not providing them
with, with, uh, a modern future because
the education system is very much modeled
on the same thing I had growing up.
Yeah.
Yep.
So you've worked, um, all of
your jobs, as far as I can tell,
have really been service-based.
Um, and I, I include
education in that, right?
That is, that is a service-based
job in my estimation.
So how has your career, how have
those jobs sort of given you a
unique perspective as someone
that would potentially be, um, you
know, fulfilling a government role?
Because a lot of the people that we
see coming into our government, uh, you
know, they get classified as elites.
These are people that come from Ivy
League schools, and they're sort of
groomed and conditioned to get into
politics and, and, you know, as far as
I'm concerned, it's mostly just to shape
policy for the people in, in their orbit
and to financially enrich themselves.
So as someone who's really worked a lot
in the service industry, what kind of
perspective does that give you running for
Congress or potentially being in Congress?
Allison, I love everything you just said.
If you wanna come work on
the campaign, let me know.
Um, but- Happy to do
anything to help you, of course.
I agree.
There is, there is a certain pedigree of
people who are, you know, they're from the
Ivy League background, you know, lawyers,
whatever, that they are, they're the
ones who are meant to be in these roles.
That is, it is far too complex of a role
for someone like me, who is a former
high school history teacher or general
manager of a restaurant, to ever be
involved in, to write legislation that
actually impacts working Americans.
But in both of my roles, I have
seen what the current system
has, which I agree with you.
I think the people that pursue these
roles are often looking to accept
PAC money trade a stock and then
regulate the same industry that they're
trading, you know, they're making
deals with, backdoor deals with.
They're, they're accepting these
PAC dollars, they're trading stock.
Their portfolios go up every time
that they write new legislation.
And so that is not the
type of person I wanna be.
I think of, you know,
being an early educator.
I was a substitute teacher for a
long time, then I went to my student
teaching and started teaching and,
you know, seeing students who, you
know, just didn't wanna pay attention
or kept sleeping every day, and more
experienced teachers would kind of turn
me into or tune me onto that, you know,
there's-- think of the, the environment
or the community that you're in.
And- Right ... you know, some
of these kids are working after
school to help their parents.
Some of them are watching
their, their, their siblings.
Some of them are, are doing
a multitude of things.
They, like, they're not eating
unless they're here at school.
And then that's similar to me
being a restaurant manager.
You know, I, I worked for
small businesses, not big, huge
corporation, like, you know,
not like massive hotel chains.
I worked for small businesses, so
typically they're not able to provide
health insurance for their staff.
So, you know, managing staff who, if
they take a day off, not only are they
typically not being paid, you know,
they're, they don't have health insurance.
They don't have that safety net.
And I think when I see a lot of
what's going on in the country
right now, I recognize that.
You know, when people are like,
"Why isn't everyone out protesting?
Why isn't everyone out furious about
that?" And I'm like, "They are." They
just don't have those safety nets that,
you know, some of the European countries
do, where they can literally shut down
an entire day's worth of their economy
because they have those safety nets.
And so that, those are the things
that I want for the American people.
Whether they agree with me or not, whether
they're on the same side of the aisle,
whoever I represent, I want them to
know that their tax dollars should go to
things that support them, make their lives
better, and make sure that they're secure.
'Cause as far as I'm concerned,
national security includes the health
and wellbeing of our population, and
right now I do not think we have that.
I love that.
I love that, and I love the point
that you made, Craig, about, you
know, it is, it is a privilege in
America to participate in protests
and, you know, general strike days.
And, you know, a lot of people are
like, "Well, we, we stopped using
Amazon." Well, some people can't
afford not to stop using Amazon.
Some people can't afford not to shop at
Walmart when there's, you know, a massive
protest against those larger corporations.
They're designed to, you know, to prey
on people that depend on those services
and, and monopolize in that way.
So I think that's a great
lens to look through.
When we talk about why isn't everybody
out there doing everything they can, um,
there's some privilege in that statement.
Not everyone can do that.
For sure.
And we know Walmart and Target and
corporations like that come in and
drive out those small businesses.
Yeah.
So there is no other option for these
people but to shop at some of these
places- Mm-hmm ... especially if
they're, you know, in very rural areas.
If the only thing you- the only place
you can get some items is from Amazon
delivery, then of course you're not
gonna be able to boycott that and-
Yeah,
of course
you know, we totally
understanding of that too.
You know, in my Indivisible group,
that was what we focused on as well.
But like you don't...
You can do something.
Don't think- don't make
it you have to do it all.
Mm-hmm.
We can't do it all.
We all have our lane.
We all have our role.
We're all in our boat trying
to move progress forward.
As long as we're cheering each other on
and making sure we're all moving that
forward, that's the best that we can do.
Yeah.
Love that.
So Craig, an idea I really liked on your
website was term limits for Supreme Court
justices, and you had broader things on
there like potentially, you know, uh,
getting people off the Supreme Court,
uh, through the Ethics in Government Act.
I'd like you to talk a little bit
about that 'cause I don't know as much
about the Ethics in Government Act,
and I think that's something that,
that our audience would really enjoy.
Just, uh, talk, talk a little bit
about, you know, the Supreme Court.
I mean, we just saw the hypocrisy of
them not allowing Virginia to redistrict
while they are literally letting
the entire South redistrict almost
willy-nilly, and this is not something
that we can continue to deal with.
So talk a little bit about how you
would reform the Supreme Court.
Yeah.
You know, I think most people I would
hope would be extremely surprised if the
Supreme Court accepts gifts and, you know,
monetary donations of other value, whether
it be vacations, houses, cars, et cetera,
et cetera, from very wealthy people.
And the idea that they are not
influenced by those types of
things I think is, is just crazy.
It goes back to members of Congress
trading stock and accepting PAC dollars
from the same industries they regulate.
Uh, there's just no real disclosure here.
There's no, there's no, there's no
forcing of their hand here to, to,
one, ex- you know, disclose that to
Congress, and two, if they do, there
is, there's no real mechanisms in place
right now to really hold them accountable
other than pursuing impeachment.
So my idea, the, the idea between, behind
the Ethics in Government reform is that on
a yearly basis, bi-yearly basis, whatever
we, it decides, is that they have to do
financial disclosures, show where money
is coming from, and if there are any
nefarious sort of connections like that,
we need to start holding them accountable.
I think our Constitution as it stands
right now, our Founding Fathers I don't
think ever foresaw the influence that
oligarchs would possibly have in the
United States, and definitely not in
terms of, like, when you think of the
level that AI has now, those types of
CEOs, Larry Ellison controlling our media.
So those types of acts... And I think
it should go for, for Congress as well.
You know what I mean?
It- they, they have to
disclose their stock trades.
But if they don't disclose them in
time, it's, it's a slap on the wrist.
Yeah.
My own congressman didn't
disclose a stock trade until 45
days later, and to me that is...
And to, to still have your position
without any sort of repercussions other
than, "Well, don't do that again," or,
"Here's the minimum fine," God knows how
much he made on the stock trade itself.
Mm-hmm.
And so again, I think there is just
Objectively, if you were talking
about another system or a business
that you were creating and you had
these sort of loopholes, most of you--
most people would say, "We should,
we should try and make sure that that
can't happen, that people can't take
advantage of the system in that way."
'Cause when you hear about fraud
and, and, you know, theft, those are
the types of things that I think of.
That's fraud.
That is frauding the American people.
That is, that is manipulating
policy through financial means.
Like sure, you can't donate so much
through a PAC, but you know what I mean?
There's all those other
ways that they're doing it.
And so for me, there's-- it,
it, it goes tax code too.
There's so many loopholes here
that allow these corporations to
not pay federal in-income tax.
You know, even someone like Elon Musk
when he bought Twitter, he bought that
by putting up his shares from Tesla.
So it's like, who, who's
really paying for this?
Who-- how wealthy is this man?
Why are we, why are we letting
this system continue to flourish?
'Cause as far as I'm concerned, it
doesn't take care of the American people.
We continue to take our tax dollars to
give it to someone j- like Elon Musk,
who can then control industries like
EVs, satellites, media, social media, and
then we have the situation that we're in.
Yeah.
So I think there are so many easy ways
of just enforcing some basic ethic
and financial disclosures of who and
where's your money coming from, what
are you doing with it, and if it's
coming from people that should-- you
should not be accepting money from, then
we, we have to hold you accountable.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Love that.
And you know, I think, I mean, gosh,
I just heard that, that Trump released
his, um, stock inves-investment
disclosure over the first quarter of
this year, and, uh, really shameless.
Over three thousand stock trades,
most of them tied directly to
policies that he's green-lighting.
Um, and we just have to stop.
You know?
For sure.
We really have to stop.
For sure.
And then there's, there's the prediction
markets as well- Yes ... that are
almost completely unregulated.
You know, we're- Mm-hmm ... we're
seeing-- There was one person I
think held accountable for a stock
trade right before, whether it was
Iran or another military decision.
But people are using the government
to enrich themselves- Yes ... in a way
that is comparable to the Gilded Age,
if not pre like French Revolution.
We are just seeing this
massive wealth disparity.
And It, I agree.
It's gross.
It is gross, and it's, it's again, it,
it, it, it's a reminder that there is
no taxation without representation.
Like, we are- Yes ... not represented
the way that we should be, and so
therefore it's... I'm, I'm very happy to
be a progressive candidate because I, I
see the other people that I am running
with, you know, my contemporaries, uh,
whether it's in Massachusetts or across
the country, and, and all focused on
really making sure that working- and
middle-class people are the focus,
and not in this arbitrary way of-
Mm-hmm
you
know, you hear these politicians
get up there and be like, "H- he's
taking away our healthcare." And
I'm like, "You're not part of this."
Yeah.
"You're
not the one losing healthcare." Because
not only are you paid $175,000 a
year, you have socialized medicine,
you are... You're given, you know,
uh, stipends for housing, for food.
You're, you're taken care of.
You're not in this with us.
Mm-hmm.
And it's, it's very obvious that they
don't understand what we're going
through when they're like, "They're
taking away our healthcare." I'm like,
"No, you don't, you don't understand.
They could basically take away our
healthcare because we're paying $500 a
month, thousands of dollars for premiums.
It doesn't matter.
It, it, it's not affordable.
It's not accessible.
It doesn't work for us anyway.
None of this-" Yeah ... "is
working for us."
Yep.
Agreed.
Again, agreed.
So let's talk about that incumbent.
Um, your incumbent has been in
office for, is it over 20 years?
Uh, it depends.
He has been in some sort
of public office since-
Okay
I was born.
Right.
And so- I mean,
listen- Yeah ... you
look very young, Craig.
I am, I am 40.
But it
sounds like a long
time.
I am 40.
He has been in his current role
finishing out eighth term, and-
Ugh
...
I will say, so- You
know, I'm 40 years old.
I moved down to Massachusetts in
my later 20s, went up to Boston,
moved down from New York City.
I met my husband.
We adopted our dog, moved
to Texas for a couple years.
It was too hot.
We came back to Massachusetts.
I get that.
As a
Northeasterner, I get that, Craig.
100%. You know, I, I was so
thankful to cast a vote against
Ted Cruz, and I'll always be, like-
Mm
...
I'm happy I was part of that.
Um, but yeah, you know, we, we were
like, "This isn't the place for us."
We are both New England guys at, at heart.
Yeah.
So we came back here.
And so, you know, I started... You know,
like most people, being an informed
voter is, is very important to me,
understanding the issues, being able to
talk to the issues to, you know, people
in my community, people that I come
across, people that don't agree with
me, so that I can advocate for change
that will hopefully influence them.
You know, working as a poll worker,
and those were the types of things
that I thought were important,
getting involved in Indivisible.
And then after the election, I was
like, "I am never gonna vote blue no
matter who again, because that does not
represent the working middle class." Yeah.
And so I started looking at the people
who I voted for, who I did not know,
and Bill Keating was one of them.
And so I looked into more about
that, and I saw that he hadn't
had a town hall in six years.
And so thankfully- The
audacity, Craig
...
the audacity, because in my most recent
role, uh, it wasn't in restaurant,
it was more for a software company,
but I was- had a meeting with my
boss weekly, monthly, and quarterly.
And every quarter- Most people in
corporate America, that's the bare minimum
...
and all those meetings are about
critiquing your performance
so that you are better.
And so this isn't, like, a situation
where a town hall is just people
yelling at you, although after
not having one for six years, I
can imagine people might be upset.
Yeah.
And that was around the time all these
town halls were happening, and people
were just angry and as they should be.
Mm-hmm.
But he decided to have a town hall.
I was the first one there.
I was the first question, because I want
my representation to understand not only
what we're going through, but what our
thoughts are and how they can be better.
I had sent a letter to his office saying,
"Bill Keating should go to all these
parts of the district because they're
considered a little red or purple.
They don't agree with him.
And at some point, this
administration's policies are
going to hit those people hard.
And they'll remember the Democratic
congressman who showed up despite
that town going 90% for Trump- Right
and saying, 'Hey, I'm here for you.
I'm here to listen to you.'"
And so I went to that town hall.
That was 60 days into the administration.
He had already accepted PAC dollars
from Lockheed Martin for a term that
he hadn't even announced for yet.
And the first thing, one of the
first things he said on stage was,
"Don't ask us to do what we can't."
We're the minority party.
We can't do anything.
And the Republicans have
never accepted that.
Never?
And
you see it with these votes.
You know, it's sometimes one Democrat
who makes sure the, the, uh, War
Powers Resolution doesn't pass, or
it's 40 of them who, you know, vote
to decide that that CORSA Act goes
through, and we can pretend that retail
theft is a massive issue, and now
allowing DHS and ICE to, to surveil
us even more than they were before.
It,
it,
it is just this disconnect again.
You know what I mean?
You're not the minority party,
which means you are the opposition.
You are in charge of making sure
that this stuff doesn't pass, and
you're also in charge, when you're
a representative, of making sure
that your constituents are informed.
And so if I had a congressional office, I
wouldn't have a town hall every six years.
I'd have one once a quarter.
I'd have one as often as I possibly
could, and I would be using my
social media to make sure that my
constituents knew what I was doing.
If I was... Since then,
he hasn't had another one.
He had one on Zoom for
indivisible group leaders only,
so it was sort of privatized.
Hasn't had another one.
I know through my activism work that
he had a petition dropped off to his
offices in January and February and
March asking for quarterly town halls
And there still hasn't been one.
And the,
the- Shameful.
Shameful And, and listen- And listen,
even if you do believe, even if you truly
believe that, you know, the, the machinery
in DC does not allow you to be really,
um, effective in this environment, the
least you can do is sit down with your
constituents and, and hold community,
hold space for how everyone is feeling
and what they're experiencing, and
what, what can we do on a local level
to ease some of that burden while we
figure things out at the federal level.
It's just shameful that any
Democrat would ignore their
constituents for basically six years.
Yeah.
How do we raise each other up?
And then on top of that, you know, it's
his pattern is similar to others in
the sense that if they can just ride
it out, they can get one more term in.
You know, he, he's 72, he's had 40 years
or longer of, of a, a career in public
office, $2 million in stock trades.
You know, the... What is the purpose here?
What is the end goal?
You know what I mean?
Is it to protect your legacy?
You know, if you haven't done that
yet, one more term isn't gonna do that.
No.
We need real working class representation
in office that isn't going to say, "Yeah,
we can do healthcare maybe," or, you know,
uh, "We can't invest in that right now
'cause we have to fix the Middle East,
and obviously our country is a mess.
We gotta, we gotta figure this out.
Wait one more term." We're
not waiting one more term.
Yeah.
I, I think that is very clear
regardless of what side of the aisle
you're on, you're not waiting anymore.
You wanna be part of the change.
You wanna see the people that
reflect your values in office.
And so-
And that's what people
are looking for, honestly.
For sure.
And another thing they're
looking for is to get dark money
out of our politics, right?
And this is something that you've
talked about on the campaign trail,
getting people to disclose the dark
money through the Disclose Act.
Uh, overturning Citizens United is
something that is, you know, a, a major
priority for progressives like us.
Uh, but some big news that just happened a
few days ago, Hawaii decided to basically
end Citizens United in their own state.
Yeah.
And, and I, and you know, it's
something that where it's just
like, God, I wish that we'd thought
about that 10 years ago, right?
My
God, right?
Yeah.
But they got it, they got it started.
So is that something that you're maybe
looking into for Massachusetts as a
state that is very blue, and I think
would be very amenable to doing something
like passing a Massachusetts-only,
a ban of Citizens United?
As the birthplace of the revolution
for this country, I can't imagine
a state that would be better off
taking that on, to be honest.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do think that there are a lot
of people who benefit from PAC
dollars in this, in this state, and
my representative is one of them.
A lot of the representatives
in the state do.
So I agree.
I think state and local level, they
also need to be pursuing that to make
sure Massachusetts has its own act.
If it needs to be a patchwork
state at first to make sure that
different states are stopping
Citizens United, I support that.
But I will also recognize that
federally we cannot give that up.
We need to make sure- Yeah ... this
is something that is federally
banned as well, whether it's we
mirror Hawaii's or Montana, because
I think Montana is pursuing the same-
Yep
type of legislation.
Um, I do believe that there's even
some legislation in Massachusetts
that's, it's been put forth.
I don't know how much traction it's
gained yet, but I think We're, again,
you're seeing it sort of catch on.
People are getting it and that
this system has not worked.
And I, I, again, I do pull it back to
2001 in which we just started heavily
investing all of our money into the
military and, and starting to just
not be the problem solvers that this
country has always been when, you
know, we, we looked at the moon and we
were like, "How do we get up there?"
And we started saying things like,
"We can't afford it," or, "We can't
do that for the American people," or,
"That's not realistic," when all of our
contemporaries in terms of the Western,
the Western democracies are doing it.
And so I am ready to, to whether it
be, you know, fight for Massachusetts
to pass it on its own, or in my
role as a congressman to fight
for it as a, a national ban.
But Citizens United and getting dark money
out of it, and I made a video about this.
This is why I think overturning
stock trade, like banning stock
trading by members of Congress
has to be part of it as well.
Mm-hmm.
Because they'll still manipulate the
system to make sure that the corporations
that they're invested in benefit from
their legislation, and that closed
loop needs to, needs to be broken.
And, and overturning Citizens
United is just one piece.
Yeah.
And I, I think I heard a while back, um,
Scott Galloway, who I'm not a huge fan of,
most women are not, um, was talking about,
you know, raising the salaries of Congress
people, and I'm not opposed to that.
Because if you're living in Massachusetts
and you're having to travel back and forth
to Washington DC on a regular basis, most
likely you're going to have to invest in
a second residence or long-term Airbnbs.
And, you know, the reality is, while
they get paid very well, they have
this unique sort of double life
that they have to live and fund, and
that, that is ripe for corruption.
Mm-hmm.
That is ripe for trying to earn money
outside of your salary to not only,
you know, fund the lifestyle that you
desire, but fund the lifestyle that
is necessary to serve in that role.
So I'm not completely opposed to raising
the salary to sort of counteract those
challenges, um, but the insider trading
and the PAC money, it's just gotta go.
And we have to make sure
that- We are decentivizing
politicians to pursue that avenue.
You know?
Yeah.
I, I think, you know, again, part
of that is, is minimizing when they
can be fundraising and campaigning.
Mm-hmm.
You know, time off from DC is not
time to be in rooms with special
interests and lobbyists and, and,
and, and don- and large donors.
It's, it's time to be in your district.
It's time to be- Yeah ... having
town halls, office hours, uh, be
meeting with businesses or people
who are being impacted by whatever
is currently happening in society.
You know, just because it's a Democrat or
Republican in office, we know that doesn't
mean everything is great for everyone.
There's always work to be done.
And so I personally think
the salary is, is sufficient.
I, I, I don't think I would be
able to vote for more, especially
'cause the more I look into it, the
more I hear of they get stipends
for food and housing and that- Oh,
yeah, that's true.
That's
true ... so if they're, if
they're getting that, then,
you know- Yeah ... you're fine.
You know?
You're fine.
You don't need to... Even me
thinking about the potential
of becoming a congressman-
Mm-hmm
...
I have considered that exact scenario.
Yeah.
Well, I guess I would take the Amtrak
from Providence to DC rather than- Right
flying unless there was an emergency.
Yep.
I guess I would try and find a
roommate, you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just so,
you know, find so- another up-and-coming
progressive who's joining at the, at
the same time- Yep ... as me, who, who
understands what I'm going through.
Mm-hmm.
That type of thing, because this
is the life that I have lived.
Yeah.
These are decis- decisions that,
that I have made, and I know that
everyone watching this in the last
year has had to make a decision
of what they're cutting back on.
Right.
Whether it be- A-
absolutely
...
something more, you know, enjoyable,
you know, whether it's something
like a hobby or passion project or,
you know, it's 'cause you're not
wealthy and you're already cutting
back on food and other things- Mm-hmm
that you, that you need.
I know everyone listening is making
those decisions, and so I, again, I
would not be able to in good conscience
raise my salary with that going on.
Um- Makes
sense
...
but I appreciate that, like
you said, like that it, it's,
it's supposed to be hard work.
It's supposed to be- Yeah ... a,
a personal dedicate...
It's supposed to be public service.
For us.
It's not supposed to
be personal enrichment.
It's not supposed to be a career.
Yep.
Which is why on top of term limits-
Term limits ... term limits and
on top of banning when they can,
they can, uh, campaign finance,
it's banning, banning people
from having competing- And there's,
and there's plenty of opportunity
to earn money in the private sector
after you're done with your however
many terms we're gonna cap it to in
the Senate and in the House, right?
Personally, I'd love
to see, like, 12 years.
Two Senate terms is the max,
six House terms is the max.
It is incentivizing to get in there
and g- and get as much done as possible
because you know your time is finite.
Um, and it's also you're gonna be
serving under at least two different
presidential administrations.
Mm-hmm.
So to me, I feel like that's good enough.
Let's, you know-
No.
God, no.
Oh my God.
Embarrassing
America.
It really is.
We cannot
continue to have stuff like this happen.
It's insane.
Diane Feinstein too.
I mean- Ugh ... we remember her
being told how to vote on the
floor, and it was just like, how-
Yes
...
how is this happening?
Just vote yes, Senator.
It's no.
That is just... And I'm so happy we're
having this conversation about term
limits because, you know, there's a
lot of people who not in, not holding
public office, voters who will say,
"Well, I don't really believe in that.
I think elections are term limits,"
or, you know, "I think that we
need that institutional knowledge."
Yeah.
And elections are term limits.
Obviously we know that.
That's why we have term limits, but I
also think institutional knowledge has
demonstrated that in the last 20 years
it has done more damage than good.
Exactly.
That this institutional knowledge has
created this idea of, like I hinted
at earlier, of this complexity of,
of being in Congress and, and only-
You wouldn't understand
you wouldn't under- you couldn't
possibly- No ... make legislation.
Yeah.
You couldn't possibly dish out this
500-page bill that nobody can read
in time before they sign and pass it.
Meanwhile, they have handfuls
of assistants doing all of that
work for them know that, right?
These bills that they have to read,
sure they're looking at it, but
they've got aides all over the place
that are parsing through all of that
language, giving them the cliff notes.
They're up to speed by the time
they walk in to make the vote.
It's not that hard, y'all.
Don't let them tell you, you know,
that you just wouldn't understand.
They wouldn't understand if
not for the people around them
that make their job easier.
They don't understand 'cause they're not
the ones that have made the sacrifices
that we have had to make last year.
They're not the ones that are
looking around and going, "What
do I have to cut back on right now
because things are so unaffordable
and this is unsustainable for me?"
Yep.
Yep.
So before we wrap things up, and
Seth, I'll give you the final
question we ask all of our guests,
um, when is your primary, Craig?
My primary is September 1st.
Okay.
You've got a while.
I've got, I've got some
good time, for sure.
Um-
And then you've only got that short
time to, you know, before the, the
actual election, which is crazy.
Yeah, yeah.
And, and the MAGA candidate, I mean,
come on, you know- Yeah, forget
it
...
no one in Massachusetts is, is,
is buying that grift anymore.
You know what I mean?
And so how many people are
running on the Democrat side?
Are you running Democrat?
You're running Democrat.
Yep.
Um- Um, some- we- sometimes we
have independent candidates too-
Yeah ... so I just wanna make sure.
Um, so you have your incumbent, you
have you, and then how many others?
That's just me and him.
Wow.
Really?
Right.
Yeah, so-
That's exciting.
It is exciting.
It, it's interesting, you know,
being in this district, moving
back, you know, you forget how
small town a big district you feel.
Uh, you know, the attorney general
of Massachusetts moved into the
district, so there's a lot of rumors
that she was gonna run for the seat.
There are rumors of other people running.
Um, it's part of the reason why I ran.
Not only do I think we need working class
representation in, in Congress, it didn't
seem like anyone of the establishment
was willing to challenge someone who has
been largely unproductive, and I just...
That's what drives me crazy about it too.
So not only am I trying to flip the seat,
we're trying to change the system a little
bit here too because we can't, we can't as
a party, Democrats, you know what I mean?
I, I don't really know if
I identify as a Democrat.
Like, like that is, for me, I, I pursue-
More of a progressive- We're progressive
Democratic Socialist leaning, yeah.
Right.
We, we caucus with them, but- Mm-hmm
... you know, we're never gonna change if we
continue to support the system as it is.
Yeah.
We can't be the other option if
we're just basically MAGA-lite.
Yeah.
If we're just like, "Yeah,
the system's fine as is.
I just wanna go back to the day before
Trump was elected in 2024 or 2016.
If we can go to the day before
that, everything's fine.
Everything was great for everyone." And-
No ... we all know that it wasn't, and
so let's bring forth some real change.
And, you know, whether it's, it's
me or another progressive candidate,
I, I, I am so excited about the
influx of people who are not of that
pedigree deciding that, you know what?
I'm, I'm deserving of that.
Yeah.
I deserve a seat at the table.
We all deserve a seat at the table, so.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
And we're, and we're excited that
people like you are getting a chance
to finally make some noise in a
place like Massachusetts, you know?
So, so Craig Swallow, we wa- obviously
we ask this question to all of our
interviewees, and I want to ask it to you.
Uh, do you take any dark money,
any PAC money, um, any, uh, foreign
interest money for your campaign?
And, and do you commit
to progressive values?
I commit to progressive values.
No PAC dollars, no APAC dollars,
no PAC dollars that are associated
with any foreign governments.
We are here, again, we're
gonna change the system.
We're gonna overturn Citizens United.
We're gonna get these dark,
this dark money out of politics.
Cool.
That's right.
So we take Craig, we place
him on the scale, and we slide
him over to Bernie Sanders.
To the good side, yeah.
As opposed to a Chuck
Schumer, cryin' Chuck Schumer.
I appreciate being in this room.
Uh, and so, uh, listen, man, uh-
Mm-hmm ... great, great to talk with
you, and thank you so much for the time.
And, you know, like I said, very excited
that a guy like you is getting to, you
know, uh, and a Massachusetts guy, you
know, through and through, been there your
whole life, you know the inner workings
of this state better than a lot of people.
And somebody like you, it's high time, uh,
that y'all, that you guys get in Congress.
I really appreciate,
appreciate the support.
You guy- what you two are doing here,
getting someone like me just a little
platform, little, a little way of getting
myself out there, uh, having people
hear my, my, my, my vision for what
can be different is, is so important.
So thank you, guys.
And, you know, we're, we're all
doing our part in this fight, so-
Yeah.
Absolutely ... we
all gotta keep
going.
I mean, this has been a real pleasure.
I could talk to you forever.
I hope to talk to you more.
Um, really rooting for you.
And you're a friend of the show now.
Anything you need, um, Craig,
between now and your primary
and beyond, please let us know.
We'd love to have you back.
Hey, anytime.
And we're gonna maybe swap houses, 'cause
I wanna, you know, I wanna see some more
of Massachusetts, and we've got some stuff
in my way that y- you know, I think you
would love, since you haven't visited.
Yeah,
absolutely.
Some of the beaches
and the coastline here.
For sure.
A, a holiday swap, but if not, we'll,
we'll do another podcast together.
Perfect.
Love that.
Yeah.
Great.
All right, thanks Craig.
Thank you.
Good night.
Seth, Craig Swallow, what a guy.
I really enjoyed that conversation.
Um- I have not been to Massachusetts, and
now I have to go because- Yeah ... it's
just, you know, the way he describes
not only during the interview but
before we started recording, um, he just
has such a deep love for that place.
He has such a deep-rooted history
with that community and, um, I think
he's capable of really big things.
Absolutely.
I mean, Craig is a guy who's been
in Massachusetts his whole life.
Yeah.
He understands the struggles of
everybody that lives around him.
Uh, and you know, it's, it's
high time once again that people
like that get in Congress.
Yeah.
You know, we, we want people who are
qualified, sure, but we want people who
are still in tune with the neighborhoods.
Mm-hmm.
You know, people who are not, you know,
jaded by years and years of Congress-
Right ... where, you know, where people
look at as Co- look at Congress like a
stepping stone to being a senator and a
senator to the VP and so on and so forth.
You know, we need people like Craig
who are willing to go in, vote
for c- terms limits for himself-
Yes
...
and put the pressure on himself to
get in there and get the work done
for the people of Massachusetts.
And you know, he talked about his
incumbent who has held one town hall
in six years, in the last six years.
Mm-mm.
The, the people of his district
have petitioned him asking him
to do more frequent town halls
quarterly, you know, maybe two a
year, and, um, nope, won't do it.
So, you know, Craig has also made the
promise of doing quarterly town halls or
as many as the people need, and this is
the type of representation I think that
people are so hungry for, and it's so...
It, it's missing and so
needed all across the country.
Yeah.
People like, uh, the incumbent there
in Craig's district, I mean, that
is r- so representative of the old
guard- Typical ... of the Democrats.
Mm. And this is why progressives
are having their moment because they
are willing to step in and listen-
Mm-hmm
and learn and not act like some celebrity.
Right.
Like, you are, you are... You
should be out amongst the people.
You represent the people.
The problem with Trump in China is that
he's got 17, 20 billionaires with him.
Yeah.
He's not taking our politicians.
Mm-hmm.
He's not taking the people who
should be representing us in China.
Right.
He's taking billionaires, and so
th- this is what I'm talking about.
And s- somebody like Craig is
badly needed because he's gonna
fight for Massachusetts, and that's
gonna be his only motivation.
Yes.
And that's what progressive
politics is all about, folks.
Yeah.
Get into it.
Look into your progressive candidates
coast to coast, north and south.
And, and my opinion, you know, Craig
Swallow, 9th District, Massachusetts
Whoo, I don't know what you're doing
if you're not voting for that guy.
Yeah.
Yeah, make sure y'all visit his website,
volunteer if you can, donate if you can.
It always helps.
Uh, you know, and he's
got some time, right?
He's got the whole summer to
continue to campaign, so plenty
of time left for you guys to, uh-
Get to know him
you know, help out a guy like
Craig Swallow who deserves it.
Absolutely.
All right, Seth, well, another busy week.
We've got an interview tomorrow, another
one on Tuesday, and then a little bit
of break, and then more on the weekend.
So it is primary season.
It's getting hot in here.
We're gonna keep going, and I
will see you again tomorrow.
Let's go.
Bye, Seth.