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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica five. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars as well as whiskey travel food work and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight, I'm joined by Pooba, Senator, Pagoda, and Bam Bam.
Gizmo:And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some scotch, talk about life, and, of course, have some laughs. So take this as your one hundred and ninety fifth official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Meet us here once a week. We're gonna smoke a New World cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rate. We build our non Cuban five pack for new cigar smokers.
Gizmo:We debate if cigars and tobacco have made a return into pop culture, and Pagoda melts into the studio's loveseat, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, enjoy as we pair 12 year age Glenn Morange single malt scotch whiskey with the Dunbarton Tobacco and Trust Sobremesa Brûlée in Robusto. A Nicaraguan Robusto tonight on the pod from Dunbarton Tobacco and Trust. We are back to some Steve Saka. This is the Sobremesa Brule, and it's a 52 ring gauge Robusto by five and one quarter inches long.
Gizmo:And boys, this will be the first one I've ever had of the Sobremesa Brule, and I've heard some wild things about it.
Bam Bam:I think there's only one person in the room that's had this because I haven't had it.
Gizmo:Yeah. Think Senator probably is the only one.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Gizmo:And you procured these for us probably about a year ago now. Yeah. When we did the other Sobremesa, not the Brule.
Bam Bam:I have to say, I think the band design, the color choices on this are exquisite. Beautiful color selection and the wrapper's gorgeous, I think.
Senator:I agree.
Bam Bam:It's really beautiful looking, a great presentation. Overall, a handsome cigar. It's got that brown with the gold edging and of course the Dumbarton logo and the band itself. Beautiful. Nice foot band too.
Gizmo:All right, boys. Let's cut this thing. We're getting on the cold draw and the wrapper. So I'm hearing rumors of sweetness in this cigar and I think that's going to be a big part of the debate tonight.
Bam Bam:Alright. I'm actually getting it on my palate from the that's ridiculous.
Gizmo:From the cold draw.
Bam Bam:Yeah. No. No. From the the clippings
Senator:entering my mouth? No. No. No. Not the clippings.
Senator:I'm sorry. If you just take your tongue and taste the wrapper. Oh, The wrapper is absolutely sprayed or brushed with something sweet. Yeah. There It is impossible for it to be otherwise.
Pagoda:Very easy.
Bam Bam:It has to be.
Gizmo:Wow. It's like on your lips.
Bam Bam:It has to be.
Senator:The moment powdered sugar.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Pagoda:It's on the wrapper
Bam Bam:for sure. Smoking a cigar tonight. I'm out.
Poobah:What do you think this is adulterated product? I mean
Bam Bam:What do you think?
Gizmo:Well, that's the debate. Steve Sokka says it's not. A lot of folks Give
Bam Bam:a give it a lick.
Gizmo:Said it is.
Bam Bam:Lick the wrap. Give it a lick.
Poobah:I did. Did.
Senator:Do you Nothing? Does it taste like you just had dessert?
Poobah:That's crazy. Yes. Like creme brulee. That's right.
Bam Bam:I will say though, the cold draw is fantastic.
Gizmo:Yeah, the cold draw is really nice.
Bam Bam:What are you getting other than cheese? I'm getting a mixed berry, like a deep berry raspberry in particular. Definitely raspberry for me.
Senator:I get raspberry in like a little white chocolate. Maybe.
Bam Bam:Agree. Quite nice.
Gizmo:It's not like milk chocolate. Alright, boys. Let's light this thing. The Dunbarton Tobacco and Trust Sobremesa Brule in Robusto. And, again, it's a 52 ring gauge Robusto by five and one quarter inches long.
Gizmo:It comes in boxes of 13 cigars, and it is one of six right now in the line. And I believe tonight, this is our fifth Dunbarton that we've done on the pod, so we'll see how it does.
Bam Bam:Very pleasant off the light. Smooth, creamy, elegant.
Pagoda:Yeah. Creamy for sure.
Gizmo:Wow. That sweetness is right there. But not bad, but it's it's almost like you put like It's pretty Sweet and cream in
Bam Bam:your coffee. I'm sorry. It's pretty pronounced. It's not bad, although the experience is very elegant.
Pagoda:Yeah, it's for someone who wants to graduate from the Java.
Gizmo:It is like the,
Bam Bam:honestly. Right? Yeah.
Pagoda:If you think about it It's
Gizmo:like the middle ground.
Pagoda:No, because we, typically, like when, you know, our friends show up who are starting off, you know, we hand them sweeter cigars and
Bam Bam:stuff You're making an excellent point, I think, with this cigar.
Gizmo:This is like a gateway from
Pagoda:It's a gateway from I
Bam Bam:totally agree. I know it started off as a joke, but I actually think it's a great idea. Great gateway cigar.
Poobah:Is this real wrapper leaf? I
Pagoda:mean No, no, listen. It's cocoa leaf. There've been rumors that Liga nine used to be sprayed with something because their smoke output was fantastic. There have always been rumors about, you know, some kind of
Bam Bam:That's when Sokka left Drew Estates. Oh,
Senator:I think it might have been when he was there.
Bam Bam:Oh, correct.
Gizmo:Yeah. I mean, he says that the tip is not sweetened, and I just wonder if he's playing with semantics there's maybe the tip is not sweetened specifically, but there's some component of this.
Senator:Yeah, that like the wrapper is before I roll of the
Gizmo:think that there's a play on words there.
Bam Bam:This conversation's worth a road trip north to go talk to him about it. I would love to question him about this.
Gizmo:I'm sure he'll love to see us coming.
Bam Bam:We'll knock on his door. Unannounced.
Gizmo:Knowing that that's gonna be the question.
Poobah:Yeah, yeah. Hey, how you doing? Just a couple questions. Hey Steve,
Bam Bam:what are you doing with this man? Are you spraying your cigars or what?
Gizmo:Tell us about your tip. Jesus.
Pagoda:What tip are we talking about?
Poobah:I mean, it doesn't it it tastes good. I just don't know what the like, it doesn't taste like Tobacco.
Pagoda:It doesn't taste like tobacco. Yeah.
Senator:This was my dilemma when I had this cigar. The flavor is very tasty for like a mild morning cigar early afternoon, but it is so sweet that it makes you sit there and seriously question if it could possibly be natural.
Bam Bam:Yeah. You know, I would look at it differently. For me, it's the the performance is fantastic. It it it the beautiful ash, the color of the cigar
Poobah:Big deal, though.
Bam Bam:Who cares? Let me get to it.
Poobah:There's a million new world cigars that perform great.
Bam Bam:Of course. But as you get into it, the flavor's nice, but the sweetness I think takes away from it for me a little bit because I'm not sure what I'm getting here.
Poobah:What's happening here? Yeah.
Senator:I mean, for me, no, I I actually like the sweetness. It's just like I there's never been a cigar I've had that delivers this much sweetness, which I'm not opposed to. For like a morning cigar, there's nothing wrong with that. But if I have to worry in the back of my mind that like, this has been altered It's the evolution. That's the problem.
Bam Bam:You're gonna get them a box of acids for Christmas. No. This is it's the evolution. No. My point is, if it were natural, you'd smoke it.
Bam Bam:Yeah. If. Would we?
Pagoda:I don't know. It were.
Senator:Says the dessert guy over here.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Gizmo:By the way, he came in tonight before we recorded the pod.
Bam Bam:What did he have?
Gizmo:He said, I've been eating so many desserts and chocolate. Did you not?
Pagoda:I did because I finished a bar of chocolate right before
Bam Bam:I came home. So your blood sugar has, like, spiked up an hour ago, and now you're crashing. No. No. No.
Bam Bam:I'd rather
Senator:just smoke a sweet cigar and live longer than actually
Bam Bam:eat fucking, like, a ton of sweets. That's correct.
Poobah:I I just don't see this there's no tobacco there's no tobacco DNA here that's hitting me.
Pagoda:It's it's it's feminine.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yeah. Is that fair enough? Yeah. You know, honestly, I yeah.
Poobah:It's a it's a cigar in a bikini.
Senator:But I'll just say this. This were we could verify with certainty, if we actually went to the factory
Bam Bam:Or drove to his house.
Senator:And the farm and saw it all, and it was natural
Bam Bam:Then I'm in.
Senator:If that were the case, would you not have this in the morning as a morning cigar?
Bam Bam:Would respect it more for sure. I'd respect I would actually I'd buy a box of these and have them because they're so unique.
Senator:As a morning smoke? Yeah.
Gizmo:To have something
Senator:that's like creamy
Bam Bam:and sweet? No.
Gizmo:Poohba words? I mean No.
Poobah:I mean, the the answer is no. But it tastes, to me, it tastes like it tastes like like like a like a dialed down Java. No?
Gizmo:I've never had a Java. Yeah. Me neither. Or nor an acid. So I'm I honestly this to me feels like I'm kinda I've kind of stepped out of, you know, my relationship with tobacco.
Gizmo:This is different. This is weird to me. It doesn't
Bam Bam:You're kinda echoing Pupusasana.
Gizmo:Yeah, it doesn't hit me like a cigar, like I feel a cigar should, even a light cigar.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yeah.
Gizmo:Now, with that being said, and we have a long, you know, long way to go here, but I don't judge anyone for reaching for this cigar and enjoying it. Like, I'm not gonna judge them because I respect Steve. I I love Dunbarton cigars.
Bam Bam:Of course. Of course.
Gizmo:But I don't know if this is for a very, very serious smoker
Bam Bam:No. As
Gizmo:of right
Poobah:And there's a market for that smoker, of course. There's a big market for it.
Pagoda:In fact, it's larger. A lot of people will, you know, I think gravitate towards this. Like, I'm shocked at the number. Firstly, you think about like all the acid and all the flavored cigars, including Java, they sell a lot. If you think of Drew Estate,
Poobah:sell a lot.
Gizmo:They sell
Pagoda:a ton.
Poobah:Mean, commercially, it's a it's a it's a great it's a if if I was if I was Steve, I'd I'd put out a release like this. I wouldn't I I just for commercial purposes. I mean, shit. Sell cigars.
Senator:He's not doing this for commercial purposes. I mean, this is a guy who is unapologetic about he makes what he likes, and whether people like it or not is for them to decide. He's not the he's the complete opposite of like a marketing driven company that is saying Yep. Here's what people like, therefore I will make it. He's saying, here's what I like, and if you like it, buy it, and if you don't, find another brand.
Bam Bam:Totally agree.
Senator:And like that's his whole shtick. Yeah. And so
Pagoda:Love him or leave him. In his portfolio.
Senator:He does.
Pagoda:He does have a really wide range.
Senator:But that's why, like, this cigar is meant to be a morning cigar. It's a very mild smoke. Like, that's that is what its intended purpose is, and that's the lens I'm looking at it through. But what's just tough for me with this is, like, if this were natural, I would like this cigar any morning. This would be an awesome way to start the day, but it is, like, so extreme in notes that I would like to have in a cigar that I've never quite found at this level that you're sitting there questioning if it is
Bam Bam:Yeah. Derived from really getting notes yet. It's just so overtly sweet for me. I can't get past that
Senator:yet.
Poobah:But it's like
Bam Bam:Just yeah.
Poobah:Then just in the morning, light an ash and white label for a month. Yeah. But that
Senator:doesn't taste like this.
Poobah:No. No. But but but it's super mild.
Senator:Yeah. But the the the This is challenge is finding, like, mild and some flavor. Yeah. So, like, when you have a mild cigar, it's just, like, really, really light faint tobacco, and that's pretty much it. And then, like, better mild cigars, you get, like, that light faint tobacco, but with some discernible notes.
Senator:You get Yeah. Some nuttiness, some coffee, some cream, things like that. There's like, you know, dab it off in the signature line. Like, you get some of those notes, which make it a good morning smoke. In this cigar, like, I I now I feel like when you get, I don't know, a quarter of an inch in, you start to get some nuttiness here, which I really like.
Gizmo:There's nuttiness I was going say there is a little nuttiness, and I'm getting a little bit of like, almost like a, not an espresso, but like a coffee type note. Yeah. Which obviously is kind of part of the design for being a morning smoke with a cup of coffee.
Bam Bam:Are there any blending notes?
Gizmo:Yeah. Let's talk about the cigar boys. Yeah. So this cigar was launched in 2019. We talked about this when we did the Sobremesa Cervantes Fino, which is not the Sobremesa Brule, remember, just the Sobre Mesa, the sister line to this.
Gizmo:Sobre Mesa meaning, quote, over the table, which is used in Latin culture to describe the leisurely time spent tableside after you have finished dining, but before you rise. It is the experience of lingering casually with friends and family in conversation, relaxing, drinking, smoking, and enjoying each other's company. So that's what Sokka provides on the Dunbar site about Sobremesa. Then he talks about the Brulee. It's a variation of the core Sober Mesa line, which is the one we smoked, in which the Pennsylvania seed leaf lyjaro has been removed.
Gizmo:The Condega seco has been increased, and the wrapper is now a top shelf grade of Ecuadorian Connecticut shade. The purpose was a milder, smoother adaptation of the Sobramesa blend that continues to retain its wonderfully complex flavors and aroma.
Bam Bam:Any notes on the spray?
Gizmo:No notes on the spray. Tasting notes from them are a creamy line with softer flavors of cedar, caramel, and cafe, which are complemented complemented by its inherent sweetness being allowed to blossom on the palate and the nose. A nuttiness, we just called that out too, is also apparent within this blend.
Pagoda:All the notes the the notes are pretty accurate.
Bam Bam:They are.
Poobah:Yeah.
Gizmo:Yeah. So let's talk about the makeup of the cigar boys. Like we said, Ecuadorian Connecticut wrapper. The binder is Mexican, Matacapan Negro de Temperal, and the filler is Nicaraguan, Condega, CSG, Pueblo Nuevo Pueblo Nuevo. Goddamn it.
Gizmo:Pueblo Nuevo Criollo, Esteli c 98, and Esteli Hybrid Lihero. Nice. So this cigar, you can find somewhere between 10, I would say, and $14.
Poobah:Mhmm.
Gizmo:I think you paid a little under 10, but we got these about, what, a year ago probably? So I'm sure they've gone up in price.
Pagoda:You've been smoking really well. Smoking really well.
Bam Bam:It smokes great. Like I said, the performance is excellent.
Senator:And again, even the flavor, any cigar in the morning that has these notes would make a great morning cigar. That's why I'm like, the only asterisk, you know, it's like you're questioning if there's PEDs involved here
Gizmo:is because that's a perfect word. Performance enhancing drugs. Yeah.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:But do we have a Lance Armstrong on our hands?
Bam Bam:Yep. And Sokka may need a PIP. He may need to improve his performance.
Gizmo:I can't wait for you to
Bam Bam:tell him that. Oh, right to his face. The PCA. Next right to his face.
Gizmo:So boys, let's talk about the other cigars in the line. They have a Brule Double Corona 54 ring gauge by seven, a Brule Gordo 60 by six and a quarter, a Toro, 52 by six, the Brule Blue, 46 ring gauge by six and a quarter, and they have the Brule Wagashi, which is a 50 ring gauge by six Pransado. He notes that the Brule Blue and the Brule Wagashi are both special limited productions of the Brule line and they are at opposite ends of the strength spectrum. The Brule Blue is crafted a touch stronger and then aged a full year, whereas the Wagashi is more delicate creamier blend with a soft touch of baking spice. And the final cigar on the line, of course, boys, is the Brule Robusto we have in our hand, 52 by five and a quarter.
Gizmo:And I wanted to ask you, what do you think about the cigar coming in at 52 ring gauge versus the traditional 50?
Poobah:I'm fine with it.
Gizmo:I kinda like I like it how it feels in the hand.
Bam Bam:It does yeah. I think so too.
Senator:I like it because it has good smoke output and it's such a creamy cigar
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Senator:That I feel like any creamy cigar, a larger ring gauge is ideal where the smoke is more velvety. You get to appreciate the cigar more that way.
Bam Bam:Dude, the retrohale's really nice. It's nice, have to say.
Gizmo:I don't know if I've had a retrohale like this. It's nice.
Bam Bam:I'm just to figure
Poobah:it out. It's very sweet.
Bam Bam:Yeah, I know. Yeah. It's a question. Beautiful ash, man. It's just nice structure.
Poobah:Yeah. Construction and the build when you look at it, the seams are virtually invisible. Yeah. I mean
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Poobah:It's a nice wrapper.
Pagoda:It's an it's Beautiful cigar.
Poobah:The burn line is great. All these things are components are there. It's just if this flavor profile is for you, it's for you. But it's a sweet cigar. Mhmm.
Gizmo:What do you guys think of the price at this point?
Bam Bam:I think it's Between 10
Senator:and 14. Think it's
Bam Bam:that fair.
Gizmo:I think it's great. Again, we and we I think we've said this every time that that we've talked about one of Steve Sakka's cigars. I think it's great that he keeps them very reasonably priced
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:For what they are.
Senator:So there was a interesting post from him a few days ago earlier this week where he apparently has been criticized by a lot of his consumers for not having a sub $10 cigar.
Gizmo:Oh. He doesn't have any?
Senator:No. Because he, in his response on Facebook, owns, I do not. And he said to deliver a high quality cigar and, like, to his credit, you know, as much as we're criticizing whether the flavor is natural or not, every single one of us has said, like, the wrapper is pristine. The construction is flawless on this cigar. I had a the regular Sobremesa actually last night, same thing.
Senator:His point was to deliver truly exceptional construction, complexity in his cigar, and all the things that he tries to. Mhmm. He can't do that, and he contends almost no one can do that at a sub $10 price, especially at his size.
Poobah:No. You can't. It's a different response. When you look at it, it's smoking the the draw and the burn line and the combustion is smoking like a Davidoff.
Bam Bam:It's perfect.
Poobah:I'm not kidding. Agree. It's it's the performance of it is not is is is zero issue whatsoever. I mean, they're rolled terrific. Everything's great about it, except you're just saying in the back of your mind, what what's going on?
Pagoda:Yeah. There's something like, you know, you're looking for that slight oomph. I don't know what it is. Like, even if you have Yeah.
Bam Bam:That's exactly what that's exactly what it is. You want a little bit of that tobacco.
Pagoda:Tobacco feel.
Poobah:Well, we do.
Pagoda:Yeah. We do. Yeah.
Gizmo:That's what exactly what I was gonna say.
Bam Bam:We do. Yeah. This may not be made for
Poobah:that guy. We do, but but other people aren't. And so I I think it's smart to shoot them. It's it's a business perspective and from creating it's it's probably a smart thing to do. So let me let me
Gizmo:piggyback on that. Steve Saka himself has said this cigar is your grandfather's Connecticut. That's what this was designed to be, your grandfather's Connecticut cigar. He says, quote, and I'm reading this from Halfway. I've always been reluctant to do it as there are so many classic Connecticut's in the marketplace and most of my consumers could care less for this style of cigar.
Gizmo:But I started re smoking many of the mainstays. Somewhere over the years, they have just become too bitter and grassy. He's correct about
Poobah:that.
Gizmo:100%. I can't stand most of the Connecticut's I've had.
Senator:I just I agree. I say this because just given our chat, I I have to smoke more morning cigars than probably anybody here. Mhmm. And as it's been summer and I've been smoking way more morning cigars than I ever do because it's just easy to go out on your patio or your deck, I've been chasing, like, the creamier the cigar, the better for me in the morning. Like, I like to start out with, like, a really creamy mild cigar.
Senator:My challenge has been, and he's exactly right, a lot of these Connecticut shade cigars, they are bitter, and they're not that creamy, and they don't lean as sweet as I would like in the morning to start. It's like, I want savory as my day goes on. But in the morning, it's like if I'm having some coffee, like, I want something sweet and creamy to kinda pair with that.
Poobah:I want a Coronas Claros. Yeah? Yeah. In the morning. Correct.
Poobah:That's the ideal right. Not to compare. No. That that that it's a fair comparison.
Bam Bam:But the concept is
Poobah:I fair. But I want a Corona's Clarus. Mhmm. A QD.
Bam Bam:I don't mind a PLPC in the morning for me.
Poobah:Yeah. Well, we'll see. There's a market for in other words, this is approachable for a segment of the cigar market, and it's smart to put it out. We are close to what? Our two hundredth episode?
Gizmo:Yeah. Today is this is one ninety five. One ninety five?
Poobah:Awesome. You know? So
Gizmo:and by the way, let's say for the first time in 195 episodes, we've had a serious discussion about are we smoking a, in some way, flavored cigar? This is the first time that we're saying that.
Bam Bam:That's right.
Gizmo:And it's because we, like Saka, trust Saka, we enjoy his cigars that we've reached for this.
Bam Bam:It makes you question.
Gizmo:But it does still, as senator said, wonder about the presence of PEDs. Yeah. So we'll see how this develops, boys. Yeah. Yeah.
Gizmo:So let's talk about some news. So first up, we saw again that the tariffs are impacting pricing. Senator was mentioning that he saw what was it? La Aurora, correct?
Senator:La Aurora and, Ashton, which their whole portfolio of brands.
Gizmo:So we're looking at obviously an up in the air question as to where tariffs are going to end up. Each of these countries, I guess, is negotiating with The US and they're making trade deals. But it seems like right now, China's at a 145%. Most of the manufacturing countries that we get cigars from are 10% now including Dominican Republic, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica. European Union is seeing 10% tariffs.
Gizmo:And the reason why I say China is I'm assuming a lot of packaging comes from China at a 100 and a 145% there. That's probably gonna be a huge impact on pricing. But what did you see from LaRoa?
Senator:Well, it's funny because they're LaRoa is an outlier in how they're handling it. Almost all the brands that have announced an increase because of tariffs, it's been a percent increase. So in the case of Ashton, Aroma de Cuba and San Cristobal, it's a 3% increase. For Ashton, it's a four and a half percent increase. The strange thing with La Aurora, they're doing a 25 increase across everything
Gizmo:Yeah. True.
Senator:Regardless of the price.
Bam Bam:Okay.
Senator:Very odd choice. Now apparently, they got in a pickle because all the brands announced their price increases in January normally for the year. La Aurora this year did not do that, said that they were gonna wait until right at PCA to announce their increase in April. So they announced their increase that shortly after PCA
Bam Bam:No.
Gizmo:It was during that week,
Bam Bam:I think.
Senator:Or sorry. Correct. We were
Gizmo:there. Correct.
Senator:During that week, they announced, obviously, there's new tariffs. And so they now have to again adjust their price, but very close to when they just increase prices. For the other brands, it's like they did it in January. At least there's been some time and space now. You know, Ashton's just doing this now in July.
Senator:And so they very quickly had to do something, so they went with 25¢ on every stick regardless of the price.
Bam Bam:That's just over $6 a box, right? At 25 sticks, more or less? Yeah. 6 and a quarter.
Gizmo:Now the question is that $0.25 wholesale, which then for the consumer is going to be passed on as $0.25 or $0.75
Senator:It is wholesale.
Gizmo:Right? So you're talking about an increase maybe of $20 a box at the retail level.
Bam Bam:Because we need to make As a
Poobah:it gets through the distribution chain.
Gizmo:Yeah, everything's going
Poobah:be be impacted. It's up.
Senator:Tariffs are not a tax. We don't need to worry.
Gizmo:Some of the other brands that have announced tariffs, and I went through this list before, got to give credit to Halfwheel, they've been all over this and they put a gizmo level intensity into the data here, which I like. I love a good spreadsheet,
Bam Bam:as you know. I love
Pagoda:how you self compliment.
Gizmo:Yeah. That wasn't a compliment. I'm a little no. I'm I'm neurotic, man. That wasn't a compliment.
Gizmo:I wish I wasn't as neurotic as I am.
Poobah:You're not?
Bam Bam:Alright. I'm pretty neurotic.
Gizmo:So Altadis USA, of course. Ashton, as senator just mentioned, Casa Carrillo, which is the EP Carrillo family of brands, CLE cigar, which is the sister company, the brother technically of Justo that we interviewed from JRE. His brother owns CLE. Drew Estate is increasing prices. Foundation, Gurka, JRE, which is Aladino.
Gizmo:Gurka should decrease prices.
Poobah:Well, they It's like it's like it's like balsa it's like remember those planes with the rubber
Gizmo:them out of balsa wood?
Poobah:That's right. You make them out of balsa wood?
Bam Bam:Ain't wrong.
Gizmo:Aleva's going up. La Aurora, as as we just mentioned, La Flora de Minicana, Placencia, STG, they own a ton of brands. Yeah. So it's it's gonna be a a lot of price increases because of tariffs. And then like I
Senator:said Where's Pedron and Davodoff in this?
Gizmo:Padron and Davodoff are not yet saying anything about tariffs. It says Davodoff is upcoming. Padron is not even listed. My feeling on how Jorge Padron operates is he's probably just gonna bake it into a price increase at some point this year. Okay.
Gizmo:You know? Because they've done that in the past. When things change, they'll just raise the price. Don't think
Bam Bam:They have to.
Gizmo:I don't think he really cares.
Poobah:As a business person, you have to do these things. You have people to pay. You you have OpEx. You have overhead. You have to make margin.
Poobah:And if that's what it is, it is what it is.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. We are now around the 25 mark here on the pod. It's time to go to our pairing tonight. We are back to Glen Moranji, and this is the 12 years age single malt scotch. We've done a couple other Glen Moranjes on the podcast.
Gizmo:They've rated up and down, and this year or tonight is the twelve year.
Bam Bam:Cheers. Cheers. Good to
Poobah:see everybody. Super approachable.
Gizmo:Yeah. I love the nose. It's so aromatic. It almost smells like pears or something. It's like
Bam Bam:I'm getting like a lemon peel kind of a thing.
Poobah:Yeah. There's there's there's fruity notes in here. It's it's really nice.
Bam Bam:Great summer scotch.
Gizmo:That's very nice.
Poobah:Very nice.
Gizmo:So does anybody have ice in there, sir,
Bam Bam:or water?
Gizmo:None?
Poobah:I put I put, like, a splat, like a A sploosh. A little sploosh as Pagoda would say. Pagoda would say, which opened it up a little bit, but, I mean, just a bit. But it's I like it.
Bam Bam:Look at Pagoda.
Poobah:What was Pagoda? Pagoda's over there.
Bam Bam:Are you
Poobah:done? Are you shot again?
Bam Bam:Just for the listener. Like like like are you
Poobah:fucking like, you're fucking like, how late So can
Pagoda:I just say something?
Poobah:No. No. Wait. Wait. Wait.
Poobah:No. No. No. I'm doing the the interrogatory.
Bam Bam:I just have a question before
Gizmo:you do
Poobah:interrogatories right now. The the so so so how late were you out last night?
Pagoda:Actually, last night was pretty early. Right? Yeah. Two. Two?
Pagoda:Yeah.
Gizmo:It was one.
Bam Bam:It was one? Yeah. 2AM.
Poobah:2AM.
Gizmo:We drank a lot of wine last night and rum.
Bam Bam:Alright. How do you
Poobah:how are you guys alive?
Gizmo:I don't know, man.
Poobah:You're gonna you're gonna die.
Gizmo:In moderation.
Bam Bam:So for the listener, you can tell when Pagoda had a rough night because he strategically parks his microphone eight inches away from his head. So he knows he's not gonna say anything. He's in cruise control
Gizmo:right now.
Bam Bam:And he, like, doesn't
Poobah:sit up, and he's like he likes I'm relaxed. Yeah. You're relaxed. Know you're relaxed. You're tired.
Pagoda:I'm good. I'm good. I'm good.
Bam Bam:Alright. Alright.
Gizmo:I got to say, this is a great pairing for this cigar honestly. It has worked out nicely. I think it's a very nice pairing. Yeah. Now normally, we're talking about smoking this cigar in the morning.
Gizmo:You're not gonna be pairing this with a single malt scotch.
Senator:The reason I paired this so Glenn Marangie, their tenure has always been like one of the lightest scotches you can possibly buy. Grindr really likes that. For me, I don't. It's it's a polarizing scotch. History has been on my side in that I was shocked when I googled to see where had the tenure.
Senator:The tenure was discontinued permanently by Glenn Marangie at the end of last year. Really? They realized that if they just aged that for an additional two more years to the twelve year mark, they thought it drinks much better than the ten year does. My problem with the ten year is I'm okay with a lighter Scotch. This is a lighter Scotch.
Senator:But that tenure was so light, it just lacked like any interesting flavors at all. Yeah. This with two more years, I mean, on a vacation to start a morning, nothing wrong with this.
Pagoda:That would be the verdict, isn't
Bam Bam:That would be a good call. That's a good call.
Gizmo:Should be a nice shower, Scott.
Bam Bam:Seriously though,
Poobah:you're start a morning? That's correct.
Senator:On a vacation, when it is acceptable to drink at any hour of the day. Right. But I I mean, so my first when Giz asked, you know, what should we pair? My first choice was champagne, but we've done champagne we've done a lot of champagne very recently. And second to that was a light scotch, and this definitely fits that bill.
Pagoda:Yeah. But for whatever reason, Champion is a lot more acceptable early in the morning as opposed to a glass of whiskey.
Gizmo:Because Winston Churchill. Winston Churchill made it okay.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Senator:Oh, I have news for you. I there's no question that he drinks scotch in the morning too.
Pagoda:Oh, really?
Senator:That man drank anything at any time. He just chose to start with champagne, but that doesn't mean by eleven, he didn't have a scotch.
Poobah:Yeah. That's
Gizmo:true. So what does can you pull the box there, senator? What are the tasting notes that they're providing? Any info on this spirit? I know we've done the history of Glen Morangie before, but
Senator:Before that, first, I'll just say on the twelve years. So Glen Morangie has always had a 12 forgetting the name now, but it's aged in sherry casks. The ten year was always aged in American bourbon barrels. This 12 is also obviously aged in bourbon. So there's now two twelve year expressions.
Senator:This being the lighter one in American oak and the sherry one being a lot more flavorful like most twelve years that we probably drink. In terms of flavor notes, it says the originals where all of our whiskey making adventures begin, known for its mellow tones and delicacy of flavor. It is lusciously smooth with notes of creamy vanilla, orange, honey, and peach.
Gizmo:There you go. Oh, peach is what I was calling a pear.
Bam Bam:I get the honey. Peach. I'm getting honey. I think that's pretty
Gizmo:I gotta say though that the orange branding of the bottle is interesting. You know, of course, it's the standout, I'm assuming, but
Bam Bam:Very suggestive.
Senator:Yeah. So Glenn Marangie, a number of years ago, completely rebranded across all of their lines. They used to have, like, a more old school traditional look to their labels. This is a bit more modern.
Poobah:More avant garde. Yeah. Marketing.
Senator:And the ten year was orange exactly like this, so they just carried over the orange branding for the new twelve year.
Gizmo:So I wanna say the price on this was $48. Wow.
Bam Bam:For 12 year olds.
Gizmo:So that's not bad.
Senator:It's a good price.
Bam Bam:Not at all.
Gizmo:I don't remember how much the 10 was when we did it. I would assume it was
Senator:It's around little
Gizmo:less Around the
Senator:same. Honestly, in fact, think I might have read that they kept the price exactly the same even though they put
Poobah:more I years on respect what they're trying to do. And I actually like that they're I like the branding as a marketing person. I like what they've done with the packaging. I like it that it's a little bit more avant garde and that's good. However, the scotch itself for me personally doesn't it's it's pleasant and it's good, but it almost I'm not saying it doesn't taste like scotch,
Bam Bam:but it Almost like your cigar?
Poobah:It's it's a good pairing in that these are like well, it's interesting. They're they're they're divergent from traditional. This is divergent from a traditional cigar, and this is kind of divergent, I think, from a traditional twelve year scotch. Am I wrong?
Gizmo:I mean, we've had other we've had other light
Senator:twelve year aged. Perfect example. Glenn Leavitt 12 Mhmm. Is as floral and fruity single a twelve years you'll ever find. You get pineapple notes in Glenn Leavitt 12.
Senator:Yep. So like, anyone can say, well, that's not like a traditional scotch, but scotch has a huge range. Yeah. You can go from extreme peat to floral and fruity to somewhere in between, know, Macallan 12 or Balvenie 12, there's a huge huge range. And I think for the summer, if you want something lighter earlier in the day, like, we've we've debated lighter scotches many times.
Senator:Grindr is a huge fan of them.
Bam Bam:Yes.
Senator:I'm not. But this to me is like one of the few lighter scotches that leaves enough on your palate that is satisfying with just such a clean finish that you're not doesn't overwhelm your palate.
Bam Bam:Sure.
Senator:You know, we talk about champagne as a palate cleanser of sorts. This kinda has that quality where it's it's just so easy and light on the palate.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I I I don't think I'd
Poobah:And maybe I'm being too harsh
Bam Bam:a little bit, but I don't think I'd ever have this at the club. I think in the side yard, in the chair, on a nice hot warm day with probably ice to bring that temperature down, I think it'd be quite pleasant to drink But
Gizmo:I think
Bam Bam:a summer
Poobah:day for me.
Gizmo:To Pagoda's point about the cigar, I think this is a great scotch for someone who's just getting into scotch to kind of start ramping up. Also true. It's very flavorful, very aromatic.
Bam Bam:Well priced.
Gizmo:It's well priced. It really like hits your senses
Bam Bam:with a
Gizmo:lot of different flavor. There's zero heat, and we don't have ice nor water in our glasses tonight.
Bam Bam:That's true.
Senator:And it's complex. There's multiple flavor notes you can pick out. Like, my criticism of Dow twenty fifteen that's meant to be for, you know, scotch drinkers that want something really light Mhmm. To me, it's like very monotone. You don't get complexity in This that at a 40 something dollar price point, I mean, you can pick out multiple notes in this.
Senator:For what it's trying to do, I think they've done a really nice job.
Bam Bam:I kind of agree.
Poobah:Yeah. Right? That's fair. I'm thinking about what you're saying. It's a it's a it's a fair point.
Poobah:Like, the expression in in in what they're trying to do here, I think, is has merit. Not for me personally, but
Senator:yes. Like, here's another one. What was that scotch we did in the teal blue bottle?
Bam Bam:Oh yeah.
Gizmo:Was that the classic Latty?
Senator:Yes. We liked that. We liked it. That was
Gizmo:Brook Latty.
Senator:Lighter in flavor.
Pagoda:We liked It
Senator:a lot had structure. Right. The alcohol content was definitely higher than 40%, but the flavor profile of that was floral and fruity, and all of us were saying, this is not your traditional scotch, but that's the range scotch has. That is trying to compete with this, which is trying to compete with other light scotches.
Gizmo:And let's just say for we have to say this. We talk about that orange branding. Senator just referenced a light scotch with a light blue bottle. It makes sense to stand out.
Bam Bam:It's actually
Gizmo:Because I didn't remember the name until he said the light blue bottle, then I, oh, Brooklady, the classic Correct. So, you know, in twelve weeks or twenty weeks when we're referencing, what was the twelve year in the orange box we drank? It's actually pretty smart.
Poobah:Correct, marketing. No, it is very smart. I love the branding.
Gizmo:This is a marketing podcast now.
Poobah:Well, love the branding. I love it. I love the box. I love the topography. I love the presentation of it.
Poobah:And it is good.
Pagoda:When you have like one of the lighter rums, which the Flodocaine seven, you still, like when you have it, you know you're having rum. It's just lighter. It's also, you know, it's very pleasant. You can have it during the day. It's pretty versatile.
Pagoda:I think with the Glenmorangie, for some reason, like when I'm having it, it doesn't really feel like a Scotch. It's like, you know, the way the cigar, like we were talking, there's the oomph missing in terms. I don't know what really describes it to be a real Scotch, but it feels way like it's definitely an outlier on
Senator:There's there's that's what it's trying to do is my point. Yeah. Yeah. Like, if they were trying to do something else, if they were trying to make this like, Balvin E 12, then I'm I'm all for that comment. The the thing I'm trying to point out is, like, they are not in any way, shape, or form trying to be like Balvini 12, McCallan 12, Abilor 12, any of those.
Bam Bam:This is intentional.
Senator:Right.
Poobah:Yeah. Yeah. It is intentional.
Gizmo:So boys, we are coming to the end of the first third. Actually, I think we're into the second third now on the Dunbarton Tobacco and Trust Sobremesa Brule in Robusto. What's everybody thinking? Is it getting more traditional cigar flavored for you? Has it stayed sweet?
Gizmo:I certainly have an opinion, but I wanna I wanna hear what you guys think.
Poobah:It's it's gotten better. Definitely. It's definitely gotten better from the beginning. It it tastes I'm I'm getting more tobacco notes. I'm getting a little bit more chocolate.
Poobah:I don't know if it's white chocolate or Spray chocolate. Chocolate or spray chocolate, but it it's it's you said spray chocolate. Chocolate shavings
Senator:that it
Gizmo:would sprinkle into the filler.
Poobah:You know, it's They have little spritz bottle.
Bam Bam:Pagoda's gears are turning. Go.
Poobah:But it's but it's becoming a little bit of a two act play now.
Gizmo:Yeah.
Bam Bam:The body's stepped up that.
Gizmo:I think right now, the sweetness is dialed down just a touch, and I think it tastes a little bit more like traditional tobacco that I'd expect in a cigar from Saka. Right? There's obviously I I'm not getting a lot of Nicaraguan flavor here despite the filler being all Nicaraguan, so that's an interesting thing that we're experiencing.
Poobah:Like
Bam Bam:Very unusual.
Gizmo:About taming Nicaraguan tobacco, not just with the binder and the and and the wrapper, but the filler
Senator:being all Nicaraguan. This is like beating Nicaraguan tobacco into submission. Absolutely. The point that you would have no clue there's any Nicaraguan tobacco.
Gizmo:And there's no, like, strength in it.
Poobah:You mean
Gizmo:the nicotine.
Pagoda:Yeah.
Poobah:Yeah. Blinded. If you if you ask me if this was Nicaraguan tobacco, I would probably not identify it as that. I agree.
Pagoda:Yeah. Oh,
Bam Bam:no. You are you okay?
Pagoda:No. I I understood you. No. I was I was just thinking the the cigar was definitely
Senator:Oh, me?
Bam Bam:I'm part of the recording too. I'm sorry. I don't wanna put you on the spot.
Pagoda:No. You know
Gizmo:what the problem is?
Poobah:Is. I'll tell the I'll tell the listeners. He's shy.
Gizmo:I wanna tell the listeners. The problem for Pagoda tonight is normally
Bam Bam:he This is unusual.
Gizmo:He sits to Bam's immediate right. Correct. Since Rooster's not here tonight, and instead of rearranging stuff, he is in The bull's eye. The direct line of sight of Bam because Rooster always sits directly across from Bam. And it's entertaining.
Gizmo:So cigar's getting
Bam Bam:melted. I'm like really comfortable.
Pagoda:Yeah, no, I'm really enjoying the cigar in a way, but it's very mild for me, even if it's picked up a little bit. You know, I was going to say that earlier, like for some reason the cigar is reasonably enjoyable. And I still don't understand what's going on. But it's enjoyable, I think. The spirit is enjoyable, but it feels like something's missing on both ends, and I don't know what it is.
Gizmo:I think by the time the recording ends, he'll have sunk in the couch low enough that his face will actually be in front of the microphone.
Bam Bam:That's correct. Like Homer Simpson disappearing into the hedges.
Poobah:It's the Piccata accountability hour.
Pagoda:No, but you know, the great thing about the cigar, like it's been kept really well as well. Oh yeah. I wonder if it was slightly humid,
Gizmo:Thank but it would
Bam Bam:taste as you, Pagoda. And no touch ups
Pagoda:at all.
Senator:In fairness, it started in my tower.
Gizmo:It's been in my tower for a year.
Bam Bam:It started.
Gizmo:It was in yours for a
Poobah:week. I
Bam Bam:just wanted to get it going.
Pagoda:It is a very, very easy creamy smoke, you know, you're so thinking Yeah.
Senator:And I would just to it. Totally. And I I would just emphasize, like, this is meant to be a very mild cigar. It is not trying to be anything other than mild. Mhmm.
Senator:This scotch
Gizmo:is Your grandfather's Connecticut.
Senator:Yeah. The scotch, same thing. It's designed to be mild. So like, when we rate these things, I would hope we're rating it based on its intent. Agreed.
Senator:What will set me through the roof is if someone is like, oh, well, you know, this cigar just wasn't full flavored enough. It's not trying to be, so we can't rate it based on that. For what it's trying to do, has it succeeded? And of mild cigars, would you pick this up over other mild cigars that you've had?
Poobah:The midpoint is way better than than the beginning. I agree, but
Gizmo:I think I think this is a cigar design journey like Pagoda was saying, taking someone from that sweeter cigar thing, moving them, migrating them into the taste of tobacco. Like, I think we're experiencing that through this Robusto. Like, at the halfway point, like you're saying, like, the sweetness is still there. It's certainly the most dominant of the notes, but it's rounded out now by more traditional tobacco.
Senator:And how
Poobah:smart is that? It's smart to get people involved in your brand by bringing them from trial to adoption. So it's try the brand And then adopt. And then and then and then graduate up. And and so to have this in the you know, for Sokka to have this in his line is is smart commercially, and it's smart for the market.
Senator:Gizmo's point, I think, was a really good one around the progression in this cigar.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Senator:It's now balanced. When it started, it was so sweet that like you lost the other notes. They were so far in the background, where now it's better balanced. You're actually able to pick out more of those notes and even tobacco, which obviously is the product. So I think this definitely shines in the second time.
Bam Bam:Does. It's got like
Poobah:a cappuccino thing going on.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Right now, that's true. It it it's the Initially though, Pagoda, I questioned the validity of this cigar because of how sweet it was. It's better now.
Gizmo:Well, I agree with you.
Bam Bam:Think I wanna talk to him. Wanna talk to Steve. And Pagoda, apparently. Yeah, Pagoda.
Senator:No, but initially Pagoda.
Bam Bam:You mean like the night?
Pagoda:You know you're
Bam Bam:my muse,
Pagoda:right? So what I really think about this, right, I know when we went to the PCA, there were a couple of cigar producers who were thinking of targeting, you know, just women as an industry and going after them as That's like true. The I think a cigar like this would be perfect for them. Like, you know, some of our, like my friends whom we've met, they, you know, they tend to smoke lighter, milder cigars.
Bam Bam:They're not traditional cigar smokers.
Pagoda:They're not traditional cigar smokers. They smoke when they come over, and you know, they're open to trying cigars and smoking them. This would be just perfect for
Gizmo:them.
Senator:I want to push back on that though. Sure. I don't think that women cigar smokers are as different from men as we think.
Gizmo:I I disagree with that.
Senator:No. No. Because here's the thing. It's not because someone's a woman that they prefer a different type of cigar as us. It's when someone's a novice, they prefer something vastly
Bam Bam:different from a cigar. Clarifies it. It's the it's the
Pagoda:Fair enough.
Senator:Because what
Bam Bam:we were experience with a cigar
Senator:I met
Bam Bam:That triggers it.
Senator:Several women there that are cigar smokers that smoke Maduros Yeah. And full stuff that we smoke and enjoy. I mean, we're smoking a Socke cigar. The meat lovers was handed out there. I met one woman who was like, oh, I love that cigar from Socke.
Senator:She's an experienced smoker. Yeah. That's why she loves it. It has nothing to do with being a woman. Right.
Senator:And I think for Yeah. Men how many guy friends do we have that don't smoke cigars that are like, oh, I wanna try something. Yeah. If you give them most things, even what we consider mild, they're like, oh, this is too much. Yeah.
Senator:But if you were to give them this, just like a novice woman smoker, they could probably handle this and appreciate it. Yeah. So I really think it's more a function of your level of experience smoking cigars than it is your gender.
Bam Bam:Regardless of gender.
Gizmo:Yeah. Wanna I wanna push back just in one point with just one example. And I'm not dead set on it, but I'm just thinking about every you know, a lot of women in my life, the way they drink coffee versus the way most of the men in my life drink coffee. Whiskey. Most most of the men in my life drink coffee close as close to
Senator:Black. Black
Gizmo:as you can get. Maybe a splash of cream and most of the folks I know drink it black. Most of the women I know in my life in inside my household and out drink their coffee with much more sweetener than men do. And so I think that's an interesting parallel.
Bam Bam:But hold on. My wife drinks black coffee and she has the entire time I've known her. But I also a lot a lot of the cigar clubs I go to, they are lighting up Padron's. They're lighting up
Gizmo:So there you go. You guys are right.
Bam Bam:Yeah. So I think senator's point is very well taken.
Senator:I see this at Shelly's. When I'm in DC, I'm, like, blown away. I've told you. I've seen more women cigar smokers in Shelly's than probably anywhere, and I'm always looking at what they're smoking. And years ago, I'd seen more women with like acid cigars.
Senator:Now that I think there are more women smokers, and because of that, it's probably easier to find, like, a woman that can guide you in the way that we've all guided each other through this journey, I look around,
Bam Bam:and I'm like, exactly like Bam said.
Senator:Yeah. This woman's got a Padron ex Luciva in her head. I'm, like, shocked.
Poobah:And it depends on your background too. I mean, I I work That's good point. I work I work with women who are Italian or Middle Eastern.
Pagoda:Oh, here we go.
Poobah:Yeah. Oh, boy.
Bam Bam:We're diving deep down. We're really discerning. Can we
Gizmo:have a lawyer on retainer? Grindr's not here.
Poobah:Everybody calm down. But who drink coffee black or who who drink who order espresso. That's a bold expression of coffee.
Gizmo:Totally. So I think what you guys have said already disputes my tossing It's not my opinion. I just was thinking about this.
Poobah:Yeah. Just because you're
Senator:like, women who drink scotch, you know, like the assumption is like, oh, you know, women wouldn't wanna drink a single malt neat, But like my mother-in-law, like, anytime she's over, you know, my house Yeah. Loves, you know, a a neat pour of Sure. Like Lagavulin sixteen is like one of her go tos. So like She goes peeing. And you know, her background's in finance, you know, she's her whole career has been around a ton of men.
Pagoda:Yep.
Senator:And like, you're exposed to different things based on kinda like Poob is saying, like, And your so I I really think it's more a function of experience than it is gender.
Poobah:I agree. Agree. 100% experience in not gender. It's where are you coming from? Like, your family, when they're sitting around and and and you come from an Italian family, everyone is having an espresso.
Poobah:And and and Good point. Yeah. It's true. Or a Turkish family. Yeah.
Poobah:They're they're drinking Turkish coffee. That's that and and so over time, you develop it's like it's like developing a taste for Campari or Aperol. The first time I had a Negroni, I said, oh my god. Like, I this is so bitter. I don't know if I can like it.
Poobah:I love Campari.
Bam Bam:Oh, so do I.
Poobah:Now I I you know, but it's it's
Gizmo:an acquired taste. It's an
Poobah:acquired taste.
Gizmo:It is.
Poobah:So so just like with anything else, like with cigars, it's acquired over time. And sometimes it takes a while and same with music. Sometimes it takes a little a little bit of time. I don't wanna, like, digress too much from the topic, but there are bands there are certain bands that you just like Wilco. Like, you could listen to Wilco for the first time if you if you're a fan, and you go, I don't get it.
Poobah:I don't get the noise. I don't get the I don't get it. But then after a while, if you listen and you listen or you taste and you taste, you you go, okay. After a while, you're like, oh my god. Suddenly, I get it.
Gizmo:Listen. Let me tell you something. If you remember when we first met, I used to rip apart the Grateful Dead
Pagoda:Yes.
Gizmo:To you in our old lounge in North Korea. You did. I would sit there and argue the merit of the Grateful Dead. And you're a huge Grateful Dead fan. Yes.
Gizmo:Jerry Garcia fan. You you like his guitar style, etcetera. Now, five years, six years later, whatever it is, I mean, I've seen Dead and Company a bunch of times. I'm listening to Yeah. You know, all the old dead tapes on NUGGS and on SiriusXM.
Gizmo:It's that's the channel I listen to. So I think your point is is well taken that it takes time to trial and maybe it takes a lot more time to adopt, you know, to your earlier Exactly. It took me thirty some odd years to really understand and appreciate the Grateful Dead. Exactly. But it happened.
Poobah:And in Jerry Garcia's words, he's like, The Grateful Dead's like black licorice. It's like You either love it or hate it.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Poobah:You kinda either love it love it or hate it. But, like, after a while, you're either gonna like it, you keep tasting it, or you're not. Yep. And and it's an acquired taste.
Gizmo:Do you think that this cigar that we have in our hands right now, do you think that this cigar is you're either gonna love it or hate it, or do you think it falls squarely in the middle that it's accessible to everybody?
Senator:For me, it's square
Gizmo:in the middle. That's where I think it is. I agree. Like where I think a Java or an acid is Clarifying. It's too extreme.
Poobah:It's too extreme.
Bam Bam:What does that mean it's in the middle? Clarify that.
Gizmo:Middle between love and hate. Like any cigar
Senator:smoker Like almost anyone could find something to appreciate in this cigar.
Gizmo:Think any serious cigar smoker can appreciate this cigar in think our some ratings, Steinare, are probably gonna reflect that. And I think a novice cigar smoker who's only been smoking acids or javas
Bam Bam:Oh, I think they'll love this.
Gizmo:Pulls this. Yeah. I think they're gonna say, Wow, this is an elevated experience. This could be their Padron exclusiveo in their rotation if that's the way that they've kind of
Poobah:developed It's their like on extreme of music, there's punk and then there's pop. And this is somewhere in between on that paradigm where it's approachable in a way. It's kind of kinda lies in the middle.
Gizmo:It's a legitimate cigar, but I think it appeals to more folks than serious cigar smokers who normally would smoke, you know, premium handmade cigars, I think. I think this can reach more people
Bam Bam:It's kind of
Gizmo:Than the average cigar that we
Senator:just stresses premium handmade cigars. That implies this is not a premium handmade cigar.
Gizmo:No. I'm saying it is a premium handmade I am
Poobah:saying that
Gizmo:this reaches more people than any other premium handmade cigar does because I think it
Bam Bam:I think that's a correct statement. Okay. Now I what
Gizmo:I'm saying? It's like a very, It reaches more people. The net is wider.
Poobah:That's correct. Net is wider. Think if you you if you I'm going back to music. If you think about, like, a highly produced song that's well constructed. Okay?
Poobah:So this is well constructed. It's it's it everything about it is working well in terms of its performance. It's a matter of do you like the performance, and do you like what you're tasting or in music what you would be hearing? There's nothing wrong with this. It's just whether is it is it your jam, or is it not your jam?
Poobah:And and and down the stretch, it's it's better than way better than than it was up front. So What do you think, Pagoda? Or is this or is this too esoteric for you?
Bam Bam:No. No. I'm just looking at Pagoda.
Senator:No. What happened?
Poobah:Tell me.
Pagoda:I lose
Poobah:you? What you observed.
Pagoda:Listening to it.
Poobah:Oh my god. No. But it's it's
Bam Bam:He was counting the ceiling tile.
Gizmo:Oh, I
Bam Bam:love it. I don't even
Pagoda:know I don't even know what these guys are going on about. I would just like relax, you know, listening to him. Yeah. Okay. That's cool.
Gizmo:That's cool. I will say, we have to talk about one thing with music. Ozzy Osbourne died.
Bam Bam:Yeah. That's a big loss.
Gizmo:And I know that this is not a music podcast. I know for a lot of us in the room
Poobah:It's a lifestyle podcast. I grew up Correct.
Gizmo:I Music grew up
Bam Bam:listening to Ozzy.
Gizmo:Music is a huge part of my life and our lives. Huge part of my life. I mean, I have loved Ozzy Osbourne since
Bam Bam:Black Sabbath.
Gizmo:I can remember. And even
Bam Bam:prior to Black Sabbath. He was awesome. Unbelievable.
Gizmo:What a huge loss. And I gotta say, again, not to digress too much, but I am impressed by two things. Number one, that this guy with his Parkinson's was able to have his final concert a couple weeks ago Mhmm. Yeah, he was. And make it happen.
Gizmo:And on top of that, he went out with that concert.
Bam Bam:He sent the picture.
Gizmo:And they raised almost $200,000,000 for children's hospital charities in The UK.
Pagoda:$202,100,000,000
Gizmo:dollars. Yeah. 200,000,000. Because they sold streams for $30.
Poobah:That's incredible.
Gizmo:And the tickets. All the bands played for free. So you're talking Metallica, Guns N' Roses. Oh, wow. Tool, Pantera, Slayer.
Gizmo:Unreal. Gojira. I mean, Anthrax. That's the
Poobah:amount of respect that he has in
Gizmo:the Metallica and Tool show up with no production. They show up on the stage, there's a screen, and it's the first time either of them have probably done it in thirty years.
Bam Bam:That's pretty amazing.
Gizmo:Just because of their respect for Ozzy. The fact that they did what they did, he did what he did, and then a couple weeks later passes away. I'm I'm I just can't believe that that was his swan song.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It's huge.
Gizmo:You know?
Poobah:It's it's totally huge.
Bam Bam:Good for him.
Poobah:He was a huge influence.
Gizmo:And well loved. Everybody loved that guy.
Bam Bam:Oh,
Poobah:yeah. Oh, everybody loved him.
Bam Bam:You know you've made it when after you die, Bloomberg Radio talks about you. Yeah. Bloomberg was talking
Gizmo:Well, about let's not forget why, though. They were not talking about him because of the music. If we remember, Ozzy Osbourne and Sharon Osbourne effectively created reality television.
Senator:That's true.
Gizmo:As we know it today. Yep. Like, the Kardashians wouldn't exist. The shows that all my you know, my wife watches these Sharon. These documentary style of just what's unedited, what's happening in your life.
Poobah:Yeah. Well, MTV, I would argue MTV, the real world.
Gizmo:Well, I think that started it, but I think that this was more of like a but like first person un you know, real world was definitely scripted a little bit. You know, Ozzy Osbourne just let cameras into his house and they filmed.
Poobah:They filmed it.
Gizmo:And he's sitting there, you know, yelling at the TV remote.
Senator:And to give him a cat's peeing
Gizmo:on the floor.
Senator:The idea of like a celebrity that is being followed and you're getting like
Poobah:Right.
Senator:Into their life where, like, those other shows are random people that just end up on a show and become famous after.
Bam Bam:True.
Poobah:Right. True. True.
Gizmo:Yeah. But But the first a pioneer, though.
Poobah:First reality show ever, though, was the people's court.
Bam Bam:Oh, Judge Judy.
Poobah:No. Judge Wopner.
Gizmo:Judge Wopner. Yes.
Bam Bam:That's your boy.
Poobah:That was really kind of the first reality show.
Gizmo:That was probably late eighties, I would think.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yeah. That was your man.
Poobah:Of time.
Gizmo:Judge Wopner was the man.
Pagoda:Yeah, he was.
Gizmo:There would be no Judge Judy without Judge Wapner being
Poobah:correct. No. You know, she's worth a ton
Gizmo:of money. Oh yeah, she's probably close to a billion.
Bam Bam:Unbelievable. This country is going to hell in a handbag.
Poobah:Why? It's great entertainment.
Gizmo:So speaking of pop culture, I had a thought, and you guys might think this is crazy. I'm wondering so I've been seeing a lot of especially on social media. I've I've been seeing a lot of influencers and celebrities and people. And, you know, like, a lot of pop stars, they post these montage photos, 20 photos in a set all the time. And I'm noticing that tobacco is making like a massive comeback in popular culture.
Senator:Correct.
Gizmo:And I'm
Senator:Do shocked by you know where I saw this?
Bam Bam:Wait, what?
Gizmo:I'll tell you in a second.
Senator:Go ahead. I talked about this, whatever episode, when for my wife's birthday, we went to the Beyonce cowboy Carter tour.
Poobah:Mhmm.
Senator:Mhmm. Beyonce, in all these videos for this album, she's smoking cigars. It's unbelievable. She's never funny.
Gizmo:I didn't I didn't see that.
Senator:I know you my said god. There's t shirts of her billowing out smoke. Wow. She's never in her entire career recorded herself with a tobacco product. Nice.
Senator:This album, all of a sudden, it's like it's back in style.
Gizmo:Think there's something about tobacco right now though that's happening despite all of the legislation we're seeing, especially in Europe and elsewhere outside of The US, and in some pockets of The US we're seeing. We talk about legislation here. Yeah. But it's almost like completely counter to that, but with a same level of intensity that's happening in pop culture. Like, I'm seeing celebrities smoking cigars, as Senator Singh.
Gizmo:And not that this is good, I'm not celebrating this. It's a sister product, very differently made, a lot of chemicals. But I'm seeing a lot of cigarette come back. Like Dua Lipa, who's one of the biggest pop stars in the world, she posts these glamorous photo shoots on her on vacation, and she's smoking cigarettes.
Bam Bam:Wow.
Gizmo:And I I'm just surprised by the renewed acceptability of people consuming tobacco products. And I'm wondering what is causing that. Is it a Is it a correction on what's happened over the last twenty or thirty years? Are we pushing back on the idea that people can't be, you know, making their own choices about what they want to do and what they want to consume? Like, I don't know what's happening, but I think something's happening.
Senator:Maybe. Think it's the latter. Again, who knows? But just hypothesizing, I feel like if you look at entertainment, sports, whatever it is, individuals have never had more control over their careers and lives than they do now.
Gizmo:Correct.
Senator:You had to fit That's what said. There's a reason Michael Jordan was who he was. You had to fit into this perfect box that some sponsor or league or whatever you worked under and represented, and you could not deviate from that. And now, individuals were in this influencer age, every Because person
Poobah:of new media, you're saying.
Senator:For sure. Like, has so much more agency over their own lives and stardom that I feel like it's kind of a reaction of, you know, Beyonce could have never done that ten, twenty years ago.
Gizmo:No way.
Senator:She would have been skewered.
Gizmo:And by the way, her husband is a big cigar smoker. Jay Z's a big cigar smoker.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Gizmo:Totally. But a woman getting away with that at the top of the pop game? Yep. I agree with you. She wouldn't
Senator:skewered. Agree. And I think like for her and many others who are now all of a sudden doing this stuff, it's like kinda saying, I'm my own person, and I can choose to do these things, and no one's gonna tell me otherwise.
Gizmo:And I think too, I wanna say one more thing. I think comparing to the Michael Jordan days when he was smoking cigars, I mean, the NBA had a cigar sponsor on their court.
Senator:Oh, yeah. For him, that was acceptable. But I mean, other things were like, you know, he wouldn't comment on anything political. He wouldn't say certain things about x, y, or z. Like, you had to fit a pretty rigid mold.
Senator:Cigars were acceptable then. That was never a problem for him. And you look at now, like, what people are able to get away with saying, it's totally different.
Gizmo:But I what I'm what I'm saying about Jordan is his, you know, being acceptable. NBC would show him smoking the cigar after the game. Then there was a significant period of probably fifteen or twenty years where maybe aside from the Super Bowl or the NBA championship, they catch a guy in the locker room smoking cigars. Now Mhmm. You know, Jalen Hurts wins the Super Bowl.
Gizmo:He has that picture of him smoking the cigar. It's on the front page of newspapers. Joe Burrow. Joe Burrow smoking cigars at LSU.
Bam Bam:Effectively, he started all this.
Gizmo:It was on SportsCenter every day for a week.
Bam Bam:That's right.
Gizmo:Him smoking cigars. But not controversial. Exactly. Right? But I think that what I'm saying is I think something significant is changing.
Gizmo:Maybe it's the personal licenses come back and the power and Look at college
Senator:athletes now. NIL. I mean, these guys are able to make money and get these deal Do whatever they want. They don't have to fit a rigid mold that some system has created in a way that that was the only way you could operate in the past.
Poobah:Correct? That's correct because there's less you have to your point, there's you have more control today in new media over your personal brand. You have you're not necessarily controlled by a huge conglomerate because you can influence on new media. I think there's an absence of
Gizmo:fear now. I don't think people are afraid to be eliminated or And
Poobah:I also I think what agents and managers are saying are saying, be your authentic self. That authentic that authenticity, actually resonates. You know, they're not stupid. They're saying, okay. We throttled this back, but now the when the authenticity comes through, it actually resonates with the fans.
Poobah:It's it that expression of who you are resonates. And that that's that that creates that's magnetic. What's so funny?
Bam Bam:What is going on?
Pagoda:I'm just saying be abundant.
Poobah:But it's a new world. It's a new world out there.
Gizmo:Well, I think, you know, when you see Steph Curry on the cover of Cigar who's an active, I would say maybe top three NBA personality, top three or five, let's say.
Bam Bam:Or global athletic personality.
Gizmo:He's up there. Yeah. The fact that he's on the cover of Cigar Aficionado. I don't know if there was an active NBA player on the cover of Cigar Aficionado in between him and Michael Jordan all those years ago. Certainly retirees have been on the cover.
Gizmo:Active players on the cover of a cigar magazine. While they're playing at the height of their game, I think there's a big window in between those two things happening. Not because guys weren't smoking cigars on the golf course. Yep. Not because they didn't buy cigars.
Gizmo:Not because they didn't love them. But because the acceptability of them appearing as cigar smokers and influencing the league's ability to sell marketing and have these mom and dad groups come after them, I think it's changed. Preach, guys. Preach. It's a good thing.
Gizmo:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, boys, we are coming into the last third now on the Dunbarnton Tobacco and Trust Sobremesa Brule in Robusto. What's everybody thinking as we're coming down to the end here?
Bam Bam:Well, still maintaining its sweetness. Has stepped up in body. Still very velvety, very creamy, beautiful smoke output. Extraordinarily made cigar.
Gizmo:I'm impressed with it. And I think right now in the last third, this is a cigar. If this was the profile from the the beginning, I don't think anybody would have thrown up a red flag about what's going on with the sweetness here.
Senator:To me, last totally balanced. To me, the last third is the best by far.
Bam Bam:Yeah. By the last
Senator:tobacco, the nuttiness is more savory. The last third for me is perfect. Yeah. Bam's not convinced.
Bam Bam:Yeah. No. Not not completely, but the step up in body definitely helps this. But it's for me, it's still, you know, very much a dessert cigar. Be great for after dinner.
Bam Bam:If I'm not having any desserts, it'd be fantastic to finish off the night. Pagoda.
Pagoda:Yeah, so for me, in addition to all that, I think what happened in the last third was, and I don't know, I got a slight, I don't know whether it's the drink adding to that or a bit of what I call the bitterness which comes, an orange peel, you know, got a little bit of that, and that may be because of the alcohol.
Bam Bam:Bitterness in your cigar?
Pagoda:It's like the sweet citrusy bitterness. You know how you get in the orange rind? I don't know, I got a bit of that, so.
Bam Bam:Yeah, I'm not
Poobah:thinking The white stuff.
Pagoda:It's good, it's good. I'm enjoying it.
Poobah:No. Like like Probably
Senator:talking about cocaine.
Bam Bam:No. No. No. No. No.
Bam Bam:Cocaine.
Poobah:Well, there's this Is cocaine more acceptable in social coaching? There's there's this
Bam Bam:No way zest
Gizmo:of stuff.
Poobah:No. There's the zest when you use a Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's what I mean.
Senator:The zest is usually orange.
Poobah:Well, yes. But then when you get below that, that's
Gizmo:when you That's when
Senator:you're supposed to stop zesting.
Bam Bam:That's when you gotta stop zesting.
Poobah:That's what I think he's talking about.
Pagoda:Yeah. That's that's exactly what it is.
Gizmo:So, boys, speaking of cigars doing well, Cigar Aficionado published that premium cigar imports, we always talk about quarterly cigar imports because it's going up and down. The cigar imports rose again, almost up almost 7% through April. Lead producer Nicaragua exported 83,000,000 handmade cigars to The US for the first five months of the year. Dominican Republic was number two, showed a decrease of five and a half percent down to 21,000,000. So I'm surprised Nicaragua was that much.
Gizmo:Honduras was close to the Dominican Republic with shipments of 20,000,000 cigars, up 1.3%. But it's interesting. I wonder if this is a preparatory reaction to tariff potential. You know, get as much stuff into the country as you can because remember, this is not sales. This is just imports.
Gizmo:So are, you know, are the manufacturers, were they stocking up? Well, they're stuffing the channel. Exactly. Try to beat it. You know what I mean?
Gizmo:And I'm sure there were a lot of manufacturers around the world outside of cigars that were doing the same thing.
Poobah:Well, because if you're a wholesaler distributor, you're saying, I want it now.
Bam Bam:Yep. Yeah. We'll see how
Gizmo:that trends And they can
Pagoda:still pass on the price increases, increase the margins.
Gizmo:Exactly. That is the truth. They can increase now and not feel the pain till later this Exactly. Get ahead
Poobah:of They're getting purchase orders like crazy. Diabolical.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's go to some listener email now. This one is from Lizard Seagull who sent us the JC Newman, the American cigars. He said, Giz, thank you for smoking the American I sent since I have a quote unquote dead tongue and I can never pick out nuances of the stick. I'm glad the experts enjoyed it even if it was all American grown tobacco, l o l.
Gizmo:America. I enjoyed the latest podcast. Please keep up the great work. And this one, boys, is gonna be our lizard of the week. This is from Lizard Thomas who actually wrote us an email expecting this Sobremesa Brule review.
Gizmo:I think this was the first time he wrote us. So he's gonna be our lizard of the week this week. Any lizard out there can win lizard of the week. You can write us on YouTube, send us an email, Instagram. You can even comment on Spotify now, which is awesome.
Gizmo:So Don't forget the voice memos. And the voice memos. We don't get enough voice memos. That's correct.
Poobah:Folks are
Gizmo:not they don't wanna hear their own voice.
Bam Bam:They're shy.
Gizmo:But we love voice memos. So let's go to this email from Lizard Thomas. He says, hey, lizards. I love the show since I found it a few months ago. I'm actually going back and listening to your old podcast because I think you guys are the best podcast reviewing cigars by far.
Gizmo:I heard your promo state you'll be reviewing the Sobremesa Brule soon, and I have been curious on what your opinions are on keeping those as well as other sweet flavored tip cigars in a humidor with other cigars. Oh. I know storing infused cigars with other premium cigars is a no no.
Bam Bam:Description's an indictment. And the
Gizmo:mad genius, Steve Sokka, argues it's not sweet tipped. Is that But I've seen mixed responses on how to store sweet and flavored tip cigars. Can you please let me know your thoughts? And once again, I love the show. Thanks.
Gizmo:Lizard Buzz. And he says in in parentheses, if I have earned being called a lizard, I think absolutely. You're listening No.
Poobah:You're a lizard.
Gizmo:To the the volume that he is going back to the catalog, you are a lizard.
Pagoda:Would say Will I be
Poobah:sure? About Don't storing
Pagoda:Are we sure?
Gizmo:If you have acid and Java, I would separate those from your other cigars.
Bam Bam:Yeah. 100%.
Gizmo:Because the cellophane is porous. Humidity gets in, flavor will come in and out. They're not perfect as far as It's not like a vacuum seal. But I think for this cigar, I've had this in my tower for a year. This has not impacted anything going on in my So I think it's a different situation than the really infused tobacco that when you smell it in the cellophane or just smell the wrapper before you light it, it's like ridiculously sweet and aromatic.
Gizmo:So that's my opinion on it. Senator, you've smoked more of these and had more of these. Have you had any issues with flavor transfer on on these cigars?
Senator:No. Only because, I mean, a box of these is 13 sticks. So 10 of them went to the pod, three of them went to me, so I smoked through those pretty quickly.
Gizmo:Ah, okay. Yeah. So I wouldn't worry about these, but I would be very concerned about Java and acid.
Poobah:I wouldn't put those next to anything.
Bam Bam:Put them in the garage.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. It's time now for a big debate. So if you remember
Bam Bam:I need another cigar for this.
Gizmo:We did our five pack Cuban sampler for new smokers. So our friend Lizard Sean writes, hey, Lizards. You recently did your five pack Cuban cigar sampler for the new smoker. Now that you've come to find so many great new worlds, what is your five pack sampler of non Cuban cigars for that same exact new smoker?
Bam Bam:That's Lizard that's a big question.
Gizmo:That's a big question. So I think we could put let's just put the Padron Exclusivo in there. I think that's an important one for a new smoker. Right?
Senator:Glad that's one debate I'm not gonna have to have.
Bam Bam:That's correct.
Pagoda:Sonata.
Bam Bam:Rooster's not here, so you're clear on that.
Gizmo:So the Sonata is one that I was preparing to debate. Definitely.
Bam Bam:I would hold off on the Sonata just for a second. Okay. But if Rooster was here, he'd debate you on Exclusivo.
Gizmo:Alright. So we're saying Pedron Exclusivo. Right? So are we viewing this as five cigars in a sit or are we just saying five cigars that you need to have? For me, a new smoker
Bam Bam:Need to have.
Gizmo:Is not going to be smoking five cigars in a sit.
Bam Bam:Need to have.
Gizmo:I'm saying five cigars. You know? So I would definitely put the Padron Exclusivo in there. Although that could
Pagoda:be a little strong for some for a new smoker.
Senator:But they'll build to that, and I mean, that cigar, I've told this story. I have given that to some of the most novice cigar smokers. Every single one has loved it. Yeah.
Pagoda:Because because of the way it smells. It's impeccable. Impeccable.
Gizmo:So let's talk about the others. Yeah.
Senator:I mean, sorry, Pagoda said it, and it needs to be said. Aging room needs to be part of the sampler.
Bam Bam:That's true, but that Concerto has really created a little havoc in this debate between that and the Sonata because that is such a delicious cigar. So cocoa forward.
Senator:But we're also talking about a novice cigar smoker.
Gizmo:Yeah. Correct. But I don't
Senator:know if Sonata is lighter in body than the Concerto.
Bam Bam:Slightly lighter.
Senator:Also a little less nicotine.
Bam Bam:But both are complex cigars.
Gizmo:Yeah. So I would agree with you on that. I was coming in prepared to debate Sonata versus Concerto because of my current preferences. I think if I was a new smoker, I think the concerto might be You know, it's very flavorful. Yeah.
Gizmo:But I think the Padronix Saxivo might be a little bit easier than
Bam Bam:Yeah. The concerto? Yeah, think so. Maybe.
Senator:So for a novice, I would put the Sonata
Gizmo:in there. So we're gonna say the Sonata in my history.
Bam Bam:And we all love
Pagoda:that Okay. The Bellicoso.
Gizmo:I was gonna say Davitta Bellicoso. A good one.
Bam Bam:Oh, That's a good one. Good call. Gotta go in there. That's number three.
Gizmo:So I think a little home field advantage here, boys, a cigar that we all love and we're smoking a lot, the Mofo Trinity Robusto from Fabrica Five. I think that's a no brainer.
Bam Bam:I smoke that every week, a few days a week.
Gizmo:That is
Bam Bam:excellent cigar.
Poobah:But can we be specific about the Davodoff?
Bam Bam:You can
Pagoda:smoke in the morning, afternoon, evening.
Bam Bam:It's awesome. It's a
Pagoda:short smoke, you're in a rush.
Bam Bam:It's a winner.
Pagoda:Yeah, it's a winner.
Poobah:Fantastic. So one more.
Gizmo:All right, so we have one more cigar to pick.
Bam Bam:What else should we be discussing here?
Gizmo:Well, I can look at other cigars that we've rated a 10. The Aladino Cameroon Robusto, the stoic in Courage, the Aladino classic in Elegante, the Lancero
Pagoda:Yeah. That's a
Gizmo:really The Davodoff, Winston Churchill, and Belli Coso. The difference between the Cameroon
Bam Bam:and that Lancero is the Cameroon is just so it holds your attention, I think, in in a much better way than that Lancero does.
Gizmo:And I think a Lancero for a beginner I I would probably go a Robusto for a beginner over a Lancero.
Senator:Yeah. I would.
Bam Bam:But it's body that you get in that Cameroon that you don't get in a Lancero. Now the Lancero It is
Senator:super smooth to
Bam Bam:look It is. Now the Lancero's very Cuban like and we love it and it's delicious, but the Cameroon's got that little bit of a body that you referenced earlier, Pagoda.
Poobah:Patience. You can't smoke it too quickly, and that's not a
Senator:And you won't appreciate it as much if you haven't smoked enough cigars.
Bam Bam:Any other tens around the room?
Gizmo:Were the Those were the only the only tens
Bam Bam:I'm sorry. The other two or three that you mentioned.
Gizmo:So I mentioned the Padron eightieth, that's not a beginner cigar. No. The Aladino classic, the Davidoff Winston Churchill, the Padron sixtieth, that's not for a beginner. No way. The stoic is probably one
Bam Bam:that It's a beginner,
Poobah:but Yeah.
Gizmo:Aladino as well. And the other you know, the stuff that came close, the Don Carlos eye of the shark was a 9.9. Mhmm. That's a rare
Bam Bam:Not a beginner, though.
Gizmo:And Davodoff Maduro Robusto scored a 9.9. I'm sorry.
Bam Bam:I'm not
Poobah:a beginner. But that's a $60 cigar. Yeah.
Bam Bam:I think it's the Cameroon, man.
Gizmo:There's no question. Look at our lounge.
Bam Bam:No, no, everyone's smoking a cigar.
Gizmo:Yeah. All right, boys. So That's a great lineup. The Lounge Lizards, five pack of non Cuban cigars for a beginner. Let's run through them.
Gizmo:The Aladino Cameroon and Robusto. The Mofo Trinity Robusto from Fabrica Five. Love that cigar. The aging room Sonata from the Quattro Nicaragua line. This is the yellow box, folks.
Gizmo:Not the orange box, not the blue box. The yellow box
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Gizmo:In Maestro, the torpedo, the Padron Exclusivo in Maduro. I think that's an important Distinction. Distinction to make. And finally, the Davodoff bellicoso, which is the little white tinned cigars pack of four.
Poobah:Petite Belly Coso.
Gizmo:Petite Belly Coso. That's a list for That's
Bam Bam:a great lineup.
Gizmo:Yeah. Awesome.
Poobah:It's a great lineup.
Gizmo:People really love the five pack of Cubans, so I think this might be a little bit more controversial
Poobah:than the Cuban ones. What a forgotten cigar that we don't smoke that much anymore, but was was the Ashton VSG? The Eluzione.
Gizmo:I think that's a little more of an
Poobah:A little bit more oomph.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Gizmo:Yeah. A little more oomph than
Poobah:Oh, yeah. I haven't had one in a while.
Senator:I have a sealed box that if anyone wants it, they can have it. I'm I'm out on that suit.
Bam Bam:I thought you liked that suit. Thought you liked
Senator:that before we found much better New Worlds.
Bam Bam:I I still I still am.
Poobah:Calm down. No. I'm angry. I'm just getting hot. Am hot.
Poobah:I'm
Bam Bam:not angry with anyone in the room.
Pagoda:I'm angry.
Bam Bam:Easy, Chauchi. Easy. I'm angry at
Senator:myself because I have this fucking box. It's sealed, and I don't I don't wanna smoke any of them.
Poobah:Okay. I haven't had one
Bam Bam:on for
Senator:half of what I pay to anybody who wants it.
Poobah:Yeah. Okay.
Gizmo:$10, bid.
Pagoda:Okay, Pagoda. Well, you said half? Alright. I may be interested.
Poobah:I haven't had one in two years, but I thought I thought we liked it at one point. I'm just trying to think back.
Senator:No. We did then. That's why I bought a few boxes, and I'm just not enthused by that cigar anymore.
Poobah:Okay.
Gizmo:So I got a question for you coming off of that. I and I've been thinking about this, and someone asked me this When I was talking about the podcast, it was, I would say, a pretty experienced smoker. He asked, how has our palate our individual palates and maybe as a group in a way, how has our palate and appreciation for different cigar profiles changed since we first started the podcast? Not since we first started smoking, but since we started the podcast. How have our preferences and
Bam Bam:I think our palates expanded dramatically. Sure. Right? I agree. Yeah.
Senator:I think it's a very fitting question that this is asked during Saka. Episode because I think for most of us, if not all, I'll speak for myself, know there are at least a few others that are probably similar. When we started, all of us were smoking fuller cigars. I mean, we would the new worlds that we would smoke in our old lounge I mean, Prodronix Sousivo, that has persisted through time and always will. But like the Davidoff late hour, that's a full bodied cigar.
Bam Bam:The family reserve Padron.
Senator:Family reserve Padron. It's like we were going as far in the flavor and strength direction as you can.
Bam Bam:Which is typical.
Senator:Exactly. And Saka mentioned this, you know, when we chatted with him at PCA a couple years ago. It's like you go to one extreme and then you go back to the other extreme and you eventually kinda find yourself somewhere in between. And I feel like now, especially that we have found new world cigars that are Cubanesque and are more medium bodied but still really flavorful, you know, I've gotten to a point where now, like and that's why I'm glad we're reviewing this cigar. I've been searching for a mild go to morning cigar.
Senator:Everything from I've tried the Aladino, Connecticut. I don't ever smoke Connecticut cigars, but in the morning with coffee, that's when I would love to find something that is light but still flavorful enough. Years ago, I mean, the lightest cigar I would smoke in the morning would have been a Partagas d four. That was always the case. So for me, I've boomeranged to the other direction where now I'm looking for like a very mild but flavorful enough morning smoke.
Senator:My afternoon is kinda just filled with like medium cigars, you know, a Trini Robusto, an Aladino Cameroon, something like that. And then in the evening, I step up to like a medium full or a full bodied cigar where before our afternoons were full bodied cigars. Yeah.
Gizmo:That's true. Yeah. We would smoke three or four Nicaraguans in a row.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah. It was lunacy.
Gizmo:I think I think
Bam Bam:No. I would say we still can.
Gizmo:It's true. I think for me, I mean, obviously, I think if you look at we're coming up now on 200 episodes, almost four years of the podcast. Right? I think in the early part of the podcast, it was a deep dive into Cubans and a real discovery into Cuban cigars outside of the standard issue stuff that we were buying. And what you guys, well before me, were buying as we went down the rabbit hole.
Gizmo:But then what happened maybe two years ago is I think we really pivoted and started discovering these new world cigars, especially out of Honduras, that have totally blown the doors off of all of our expectations of what our lineups can look like.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Gizmo:What our rotation can look like. And also now that Habanos has kicked the prices through the roof, what a budget friendly option that still packs the flavor we're looking for
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:In a Cuban cigar, as Senator just said. I think that's been my journey.
Bam Bam:I think we mimic I agree. I think all of us in the room follow that same path.
Poobah:I agree.
Gizmo:Agree. I
Pagoda:think for me it's been so drastic, you know, going all the way. I used to smoke all extremely fuller bodied cigars. Oh yeah, we know. And in fact, it's It not even a
Poobah:was reflected in your ratings early
Pagoda:Yeah, it was.
Poobah:And that's not a criticism, though.
Pagoda:No, not. But it's true. And then I started enjoying Cuban over a period of time, and then obviously now with the Hondurans, you know, I've developed a huge appreciation for flavorful cigars, medium bodied, you know, plus or minus, He it's really widened my
Senator:gave an R and J Churchill a 10.
Bam Bam:That's correct. Really
Senator:saw And years what ago, that is unthinkable.
Pagoda:Unthinkable. Unthinkable. Agreed. Yeah.
Bam Bam:I will say that the Honduran category, I think, has been a curveball that has come into all of our lives in in an incredible way. That has been such an awesome experience to get have the access to those cigars. Most of them now, if not all, are readily available, and they're incredible. That hybrid experience between a new world cigar and a Cuban cigar and you get the best of both worlds in one cigar. I think it's been a revelation for everyone here at the club.
Bam Bam:I don't see this taking place in any other cigar lunch, and I go to a lot of different lounges. It doesn't happen anywhere, so I think there's a lack of exposure and education on that line of product. It's just it's awesome.
Senator:It's really funny you mentioned that because I just saw an article. My father, this month Mhmm. Came out with their first Honduran puro ever. Everyone is starting to get wind of the magic of Honduran tobacco.
Pagoda:Crazy, dude.
Senator:And the wild thing is, like, you just think about I mean, this just keeps happening. If you look at so many of these brands, all of a sudden are coming out with these Honduran cigars. Yep. Honduras is gonna explode.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Senator:I mean, honestly, you know, for Fabrica five to have you know, thankfully for them and for us as consumers of their product, like, gotten there as early as they did. For any entrant that is trying to really do a lot with Honduran tobacco, it's gonna get harder and harder to get your hands on, like It's true. Great tobacco and, space in a factory that's gonna actually produce a really, really well constructed cigar. So I feel like there's gonna be a huge boom.
Bam Bam:Stepping back to PCA, Aladina was the only Honduran producer of cigars in that entire show. Is that correct?
Gizmo:That is not true. A lot of folks make cigars in Honduras.
Bam Bam:Yeah, but they don't dedicate their entire line.
Gizmo:I don't think the entire line there's nothing of size that we're smoking. Yeah. Maybe there's boutiques, But as far as vertically integrated companies that are only producing cigars made, you know, farmed Puros. Puros out of Honduras.
Bam Bam:I think there's
Gizmo:I don't think there are many. Even Fabrica Five does have a touch of Nicaraguan tobacco in
Bam Bam:it. That's true. Yeah. That's true.
Gizmo:But they're not vertically integrated as well. You know what I From seed to boxing everything, Aladino is a Honduran
Bam Bam:pure. And I haven't had any other Honduran cigar made by other makers. I'm not sure, Senator, if you have, but I would have to think Aladino's the premier maker of that line of cigars from that category.
Gizmo:Well, I think what's happened, I think what we're seeing, I mean, JRE Aladino is not that old. Obviously, Faber Ka five is not that old. I think what we're seeing like you're saying, my father putting out a Honduran cigar. I mean, that's the sister company to Tatuaje. Tatuaje is not known for being mild, accessible, or Cuban.
Gizmo:Correct. Okay? That is a real sometimes a gut punch, those cigars. They can really punch you in the face. Yeah.
Gizmo:I think what we're seeing though, and to Senator's point about a boom, I think what we're also seeing is a real celebration of quality that can come out of Honduras if done right. And I think that they're also realizing that there's a lot of smokers out there who want that flavor profile of cigar, especially those who have been disenfranchised by Habanos and the Cuban cigar
Bam Bam:market. Exactly right.
Senator:It's just funny. You look at the history of, you know, any of these huge tobacco producing countries. I mean, you know, Nicaragua decades ago was not a powerhouse in tobacco like it is now. I mean, you look at the story in the history of Padron, you know, Jose Padron, you know, George's father, I mean, was kinda laughed at as this tobacco was way too strong. No one is gonna wanna smoke this stuff.
Senator:Nicaragua was a blip on the map at that point. Now it exports more tobacco than any country, period.
Gizmo:Like, x what the Dominican did.
Bam Bam:That's I
Senator:mean, talk about like a huge explosion for the tobacco economy there. And I feel like Honduras years ago, people would say like, oh, that tobacco is way too mild. That's not gonna there's not enough serious cigar smokers that will gravitate toward that that profile. Mhmm. Now I feel like they're gonna go through something very similar to what Nicaragua has.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It's gonna be interesting.
Pagoda:And we're in exciting times.
Bam Bam:Very.
Pagoda:And also with the small boutiques that showed up in PCA. Yeah. Was cool. Blending. They're doing a lot of interesting stuff.
Bam Bam:Like stoic.
Pagoda:Yeah. Like stoic. Yeah. Was, it's, yeah, Looking forward to the next few years in terms of the new worlds.
Gizmo:Yep. All right, boys. We're coming to the end of our evening now with the Glenmore in G12 single malt scotch and the Dunbarton Tobacco and Truss Sobremesa Brule in Robusto. What's everybody thinking about the pairing before we go into our ratings?
Bam Bam:Very dessert like overall for me. Pagoda's happy? Between the spirit and the cigar. Not a bad thing. Just different for me.
Gizmo:Okay.
Senator:Yep. I mean, you say different. We pursue all of us pursue dessert.
Bam Bam:You get so offended. No. I I just want people to be consistent.
Senator:I'm sorry. We all pursue dessert notes in cigars.
Pagoda:Yes.
Senator:Up, man. We talk about this all the time, so I'm just surprised that you sound disappointed.
Bam Bam:So those comments will come out in my ratings, especially in a cigar.
Gizmo:It's time now, boys, to do the formal liquor rating tonight on the Glen Morange 12 years age single malt scotch. Bam bam, you're up.
Bam Bam:So I'm at a nine. I didn't like this initially, but as I'm finishing my first glass and I think if we're gonna have a cigar after recording, I'll have another glass of this. It grew on me. Like few of you noted, there's a lot of versatility with this. I would definitely prefer to have this in the spring and summer rather than fall and winter.
Bam Bam:So there's some limitation there, but I think it's delicious. It's not overtly sweet, but it's got that sweetness to it that you'll notice and keeps your attention. And I do like there's a little bit of citrus, which you know I love, and that's there for sure, so I'm at a nine.
Gizmo:Alright. Pagoda.
Pagoda:Yeah, this one's a tough one for me. I, you know, I'll round up and I'll give it an eight. For me, I really like, the flavor, there's a little bit of complexity, of course, But I just think in terms of, I thought there was something missing. I felt that it was very light in terms of, even in terms of viscosity. And it's a really good, I guess, spirit for the morning.
Pagoda:But I don't know whether I would pursue it, I would go and buy it, or I just felt something was missing. And I can't pinpoint what it is. Because when I think about whiskey or scotch, there's something which I gravitate towards, and I, you know, it's really satisfying. I felt that I wasn't fully satisfied, but yet, the flavor profile was pretty good.
Bam Bam:It's not a Belvany, but I think Senator noted earlier, it's doing something a little different, and it does that that particular thing very
Senator:well. Like, it's competitive set. It's hibiki. If anyone remembers when we did hibiki, that's a light scotch.
Bam Bam:But this is different than that, though.
Pagoda:It is different. Yeah.
Senator:Yeah, but I'm just saying, in terms of body, like,
Poobah:these are
Senator:not trying
Bam Bam:to that's be McAllen true. No, but that's
Pagoda:why I rounded up to an eight, meaning I, like, initially I felt my first sip was, oh, it's like flavored sweet water, and I didn't enjoy it. Sorry. Then, yeah. I just realized,
Senator:did I screw that up? Habiki's not a It's Japanese. No,
Pagoda:no. Oh, the Suntory.
Senator:That that's what I'm talking about.
Pagoda:Oh, I remember the Suntory.
Senator:Where, like, the the color is almost yellow
Pagoda:Yes.
Senator:Of the spirit. Like, that's what it's competing. And that's like a $42 bottle. Yeah. Like, it's very light.
Senator:We all said we would only drink that probably spring or summer. Like, that's the class that this is
Pagoda:No, absolutely. And I think that's why I think given the Centauri, I'm sure. I rated it about I an eight
Bam Bam:would rather have this than the Centauri.
Pagoda:I haven't had that for a very, very long time. Like, I don't even reach for that anymore.
Bam Bam:So I remember specifically that episode, and we talked about how incredible that would be at a nice, hot summer day in the shade with some ice. This is also, and I noted this earlier, I think this is also in that category, but this edges that out.
Senator:It does. That, you need ice. Don't need ice here. You don't need ice to sip this.
Bam Bam:Unless you wanna decrease in temperature.
Gizmo:I think you could put this in the fridge for a few minutes before you drink it. It brings down the temperature without watering it down.
Bam Bam:That's true.
Pagoda:Yeah. And that's why I think eight's a fair score because
Bam Bam:Yeah, it's fine.
Pagoda:Yeah. I mean, a part of me like is definitely not a nine for me, which, you know, becomes very premium for me. Gotcha. This is something I kind of enjoyed. If it's there, I'll drink it.
Pagoda:It's not something I'll pursue.
Gizmo:Cool. So for me, it's a nine. I think this is an excellent scotch. I love the aroma on the nose. Before you even sip it, the aroma in the glass was powerful, I'd argue.
Gizmo:And the flavor on the palate was mild, very accessible, no heat.
Bam Bam:Very pleasant.
Gizmo:But complex. So this is something that I'm actually gonna buy and keep on hand for a couple reasons. I think someone who wants a lighter scotch, great, check. If I want something lighter, spring or summer, check. If I'm smoking a Cuban cigar, this is probably one of the better scotches we've had for Cuban cigars.
Bam Bam:I agree with that. And honestly, there is when you take it without ice, there is just a touch, a very faint touch of heat, which I really enjoy in this spirit. But it dissipates very quickly, but to me that gives me a complex experience.
Gizmo:And the other thing that I was gonna say, Bam, something that doesn't dissipate, it has a long finish.
Bam Bam:Oh, very,
Gizmo:very It stays on the palate, I feel, for
Bam Bam:a very long period Let's talk about that. So there's value there. You're taking less sips. It lingers, so you enjoy it, and as you take a drag on your cigar, those flavors commingle. It's a pretty good experience, and I would love to try it with a Cuban cigar.
Gizmo:I think this is a home run with a Cuban cigar. We didn't even talk about that tonight.
Bam Bam:I would love to talk it.
Senator:Pairing this with, like, an LGC or a QD Corona's Claro, dude.
Pagoda:That would be a home run.
Senator:Floral or citrus in the Cuban catalog with this is
Poobah:a perfect
Gizmo:El Rey del Mundo Schwa Supreme. There's another one. Exactly.
Poobah:Actually, so it's because it's got like
Bam Bam:Most of the QD line would be great
Poobah:with this cigar. Yeah. So like with the Coronas Claros, it's got that honey citrus
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yep.
Poobah:Peach. Correct. Kind of those kind of notes that would that would really
Bam Bam:supreme would be great with
Poobah:the cigar. The the sua supreme would be great with this cigar in the right setting. Yes. So, like, for me, it's not a go to scotch. Is he rating now?
Senator:Yeah. He may as well.
Bam Bam:Oh, good.
Pagoda:Go. Go.
Poobah:No. But it's got these there's complexity to it. But the only criticism I'd have is there's a little bit, I think, to Pagoda's point, like a lack of viscosity. But maybe that's a sacrifice to the fruity notes that are involved here. You know, it doesn't have that kind of soil that you'd want, that kind of earthier flavor.
Poobah:It's bright, and I think that has merit. It's got a slot, but it it would pair nice with the with the with the Kronez Klaros, I think, you know, given those
Gizmo:I agree.
Poobah:The notes I mentioned. Agreed. So are we rating it now?
Bam Bam:Yeah. Go for it.
Poobah:Yeah. I mean, for me, it's an eight, but a solid eight. Like, if I was really gonna have to split hairs, I'd give it a little bit more. Something to have around the house, but not something that's in my wheelhouse like a Caribbean cask or a Macallan 12. Or I'm a little set in my ways.
Poobah:I kinda like what I like. And and but but this is this this is a great bottle to have around to pair with an appropriate cigar that's got those similar notes.
Bam Bam:I'd also go out on a limb and say because of how well it's priced
Poobah:It is priced well.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It's $48.
Gizmo:I mean, come on. Dude, it's great flavor for $48.
Bam Bam:If you're throwing a party and you've got a bunch of guys and gals that want a step up from a glass of wine, I think on a beautiful spring day
Poobah:If I could find a gal that's gonna join me for a glass of this.
Bam Bam:You'll find my
Pagoda:spot. Rated a 10. You will
Bam Bam:find plenty.
Poobah:Rating will go up.
Bam Bam:It should go up. I think this is a great party scotch for a small gathering of maybe ten, twelve people, whatever. But because it's priced so well, this great is gathering spirit.
Gizmo:I agree. Yeah. So my rating was a nine. Pooba's rating was an eight, senator.
Senator:So I'm definitely at a nine. For me, this is one of the best light scotches I have had, period. I'm shocked. I mean, again, the context is this used to be a ten year expression, and I was not a fan of their 10. For everything we're talking about, like, it still delivers you know, it has a long finish, still delivers a lot of flavor.
Senator:We're picking all these notes. That was not the case with the 10. I think it's brilliant that they figured out letting this age for an additional two years, it changes everything. I think it's complex. I mean, for 40 something dollars, like, to have the the citrus and floral and the sweet kinda honey notes, all of it just marries together so perfectly.
Bam Bam:In that ultra long finish.
Senator:The finish, it stays on your palate. It doesn't even need to be that viscous to do that, which is wild.
Bam Bam:That's a great point.
Poobah:That's vanilla and peach in
Senator:there. Yes, for sure.
Bam Bam:But I think the finish makes up for the lack of viscosity.
Pagoda:Know the thing is, I would have preferred it just slightly bit less sweet. Maybe a bit more dry, slightly.
Bam Bam:There is nothing like that, yeah.
Pagoda:And I hear a little more heat, I don't know. Mhmm. There was something that I was, you know, missing.
Senator:And the best part to me, I mean listeners, I have no doubt don't love hearing this, but everybody in this room when we're drinking scotch and most whiskeys, there's ice in everyone's glass. And it's because, you know, a lot of them can be intense or, you know, so full in flavor or structure or even some of them heat that just tamping that down a bit, whether it's water, whether it's ice, it really kinda just needs it for many of our palates, especially pairing it with a cigar. This scotch, this is one of the few scotches. I don't want water. I don't need anything added.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Senator:It's so smooth. I'm just supremely impressed with what they were able to achieve in a twelve year at that price point, and it's so unique and differentiated, which deserves credit. I mean, scotch is a category that is very well understood. It's not often that you pick up a bottle of scotch and you're like, wow. That's unlike anything I've ever had before.
Senator:Yeah. We're almost always comparing it to some other scotch that it drinks similar to. There's not one scotch that I would put this up against and say, oh, well, this is, you know, pretty close to that. So to differentiate and do something unique that for me was exciting to my palate even though, you know, I don't traditionally pull for a lighter scotch deserves a world of credit, and the versatility around Cuban cigars, lighter new world cigars like we're having. I think people who are early in their scotch journey to even people who are much more experienced scotch drinkers that we can still find something to appreciate, strong nine for me.
Poobah:Alright. Yeah. I can appreciate that. It's It's not I don't think this is Asian as Sherry cask, is it?
Senator:No. It's all American
Poobah:American white oak, right? Yeah. So lends a different flavor profile.
Bam Bam:Yep.
Poobah:It's a lighter profile. My personal wheelhouse like, I'm a little more set in my ways, and I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing. Just kinda
Pagoda:No. It's supposed to be based
Poobah:on sherry the
Bam Bam:It's neither good or worthy.
Senator:I mean, again, I think the one thing that we all agree on, I mean, none of us routinely reach for as mild or as light a cigar as what we're smoking right now, and so we all gravitate toward medium and medium full cigars, and that lends itself to a twelve year Scotch that's aged in a sherry cask, some of the rums, the cognacs that we do. Right. So because of what we smoke, this isn't a frequent pairing. But given what we're smoking, a mild cigar, and when we are having know, a lighter Cuban, something more citrus forward or floral, that's what you'd want
Poobah:carry those. Yeah. The expression is, I I think, true to what they're trying to do.
Senator:Yes.
Poobah:And and and and and and that's a good thing. That's a merit. So there's a merit in that. It's differentiated. It's I haven't really I'll be honest.
Poobah:I haven't tasted a scotch like this. But is it I gave it at eight because it's kind of not in my maybe I'm getting older and I'm just getting set in my weight. It's not
Bam Bam:my do
Poobah:you know what I mean? It's, like, not in my wheelhouse of but but but but I can see how one can appreciate this and really love it. It's really good.
Bam Bam:It's good marketing.
Gizmo:Sup, boys? Tonight, the formal liquor rating on the Glenmorangie 12 age single malt scotch is an 8.6. Let's compare that to the other three Glen Moranges we've done on the pod.
Bam Bam:I'll be honest. It's a little unremarkable for this. I'm a little
Gizmo:I agree. I'm a little disappointed It's touch these unremarkable.
Bam Bam:But a good score.
Gizmo:I think it should have been in the nineties.
Bam Bam:That's a great recommend. Yeah. But you know.
Gizmo:On episode 20, we did the Glenmorangie 10. We did not rate it. That was one of the final spirit pairings that we did that we did not rate. On episode 114, actually, that makes a lot of sense because they discontinued it. So good for us and good for them.
Gizmo:Correct. On episode 114, we did the 14 year old Quinta Rubin scored a seven. And on episode one forty nine, we did the Cabal Estate 15 years old. Single malt scotch scored a 9.1. So the fifteen years at 9.1 and the 12 at an 8.6 makes sense.
Senator:We never did their 18?
Gizmo:No. Wow. Not yet. Alright, boys. It's time now to move into the formal lizard rating tonight on the Dunbarton Sobremesa Brule in Robusto.
Gizmo:Senator, you're up. So for me, I'm at
Senator:a firm eight. I enjoyed the cigar. For me, the last third was the best part by far. And what I did like is it got better and better as you went through. For me, the first third was the weakest, the second third got better, and the final third, if it could have been that all the way through, it would have gotten a nine, maybe even a 10 out of me.
Senator:It was a complex blend. You don't get the complexity in the first third, and that's my complaint because the sweetness is dialed up to such an aggressive level that we're all sitting here questioning if that's even
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Senator:You know, a truly natural sweetness that it's delivering. Right. In the second third, that dials down and allows the other flavors in the blend to come through in a more balanced way, and in the final third, think, is when you really get the other flavors. So there's a lot to like, I think, in this cigar for a mild smoke, which is what it is designed and intended to be. I think the construction and the performance all the way through were stellar.
Senator:I mean, it is a beautiful cigar to look at. The wrapper, invisible seams, honestly, of the best constructed Connecticut shade cigars I've seen in a very, very long time.
Bam Bam:Yeah. True.
Senator:Great smoke output. I think the ring gauge on this is perfect. 52 for me is like it checks every box. The only reason, you know, I knocked it down, it's that first third, and it's having to question whether that sweetness is naturally derived. And, you know, I welcome a conversation with, you know, Steve Saka about this.
Senator:Oh, yes. I've never had a cigar delivered that much sweetness from the wrapper.
Bam Bam:Not even
Senator:lighting it. Yeah. Just tasting the wrapper. I mean, it is absurd. Yeah.
Senator:And that has to be, you know, a demerit because we're not in the business of flavored cigars, and there's nothing wrong with people who wanna pursue that. But that's certainly not what we pursue. But for the second third and that final third, it really delivered for a mild smoke, so I'm at a solid eight.
Poobah:Alright, Pooba. Yeah. I'm at I'm at a solid eight as well. I thought the I would echo senator's commentary. When you light it, it's it's it's so sweet that you're kind of questioning what's what's happening here.
Poobah:But in the middle, it got better. And then in the last third, it got better and fuller. So for for for me, it's an eight. Is it something I'm going to reach for? Probably not.
Poobah:Is it something I'm gonna buy? Probably not. But I think if you're if you're looking to I think if you're looking for a cigar, an entry level cigar that's affordable, get it. Try it. Smoke it.
Poobah:Because it's gonna take you on a little bit of a journey. And I I the journey was not unpleasant in any way. It wasn't. It was just a little I think where we are in in the hobby, you're kind of expecting something different. It was just confusing at the upfront.
Poobah:The really the first third was the disappointing or the confusing part, I would say, for me. And I'm not sure if this thing's flavored or it's not flavored. It probably isn't, but that's pretty sweet. We don't know. So it's an eight for me because it performed great down the stretch.
Senator:This is where we need the people's court. Oh, yeah. Where's judge Wabner?
Gizmo:+1, 010, ten, ten.
Poobah:Am I wrong?
Pagoda:No, we totally agree. Listen
Bam Bam:You're not wrong, Cuba.
Pagoda:I think, you know, we all kind of echo the same sentiment. I think overall, as soon as you put the cigar in the mouth, they were just sweet. Meaning even before, like, the wrapper tasted sweet. So that, obviously, that made us question. I'm sorry, I'm going
Bam Bam:No, you're man.
Pagoda:Yeah. But having said that, it was creamy. It was very well constructed.
Bam Bam:He may
Senator:as well rate
Bam Bam:it this Is it his turn? Go ahead.
Pagoda:Go. Well, I thought I thought that's right. Go.
Gizmo:Episode 195. Correct.
Pagoda:Not because he questioned me, so I was like, I just ran to that.
Bam Bam:It's because video yeah. So what's your rating?
Pagoda:Anyway, it's an eight for me. Strong eight.
Gizmo:I'll be honest, guys. I'm surprised at these eights. I'm surprised. What?
Bam Bam:I am too.
Gizmo:So here's why. Here's why. I think
Bam Bam:I wish it was my turn.
Gizmo:Your point earlier about judging the cigar for what it intends to be and what it is. I think we're talking about a cigar that was incredibly well constructed. Burned perfectly. Uh-oh. Drew perfectly.
Senator:Oh, good. He may go higher.
Bam Bam:You're on the positive.
Gizmo:Okay. I'm on the positive. Oh. Oh, I'm going nine on this, boys.
Bam Bam:Oh man.
Gizmo:I'm going nine. Look at you. I'm really impressed with the cigar we had tonight for what it is. Now, what I don't like is the fact that this whole sweetness thing is ambiguous. I think there's a level of ambiguity that's unfair to the consumer here.
Bam Bam:It's more than ambiguous.
Gizmo:I think playing very questionable. Think playing with the semantics is, I think, you know, borderline ridiculous for me. Just come and say what it is. Correct. You know, market this as a gateway cigar.
Gizmo:That's what it looks like to me. Correct. And tastes like to me. It's a gateway cigar.
Bam Bam:But you're at a nine. You're at a nine. Correct. Wow.
Gizmo:It's a gateway cigar that takes someone who is either a novice or might like flavored cigars and takes them through the journey into what a premium cigar should taste like. And that's what we're talking about here in the second, third, and the last third. I think at that point, it tasted like a balanced, albeit sweet, but it was a balanced premium cigar and it performed that way. Right? I think the sweet start was overwhelming.
Gizmo:Again, I accept what it was. You know, the journey was journey was shocking because when you light that cigar, you expect that it's gonna be a pretty painful hour and a half for the kind of smokers that we are and it ended up not being like that. So, yes. Am I gonna smoke this every day? Probably not.
Gizmo:Am I gonna buy a box and keep them in the humidor? I am because I really enjoyed this cigar tonight. So that's why I'm rating this a nine. I think this is a win. I think the only asterisk red mark on this right now is the fact that we can't honestly tell our listeners what the hell is going on with the sweetness.
Gizmo:I don't like that.
Bam Bam:You know what this is like? The baseball hall of fame. Those guys that took PEDs have a little asterisk next to their name.
Gizmo:And they'll never be inducted.
Bam Bam:We don't know.
Gizmo:So Bam Bam, you're up now.
Bam Bam:So I didn't like the first third at all. It was just so overtly sweet it seemed unnatural, but that sweetness continued and carried all the way through to about a half inch of stopping where where I took the cigar down. I really couldn't identify a typical cigar note that we pursue. I didn't couldn't tell if I was getting a dry fruit because it was so sweet. I wasn't getting much tobacco because it was so sweet.
Bam Bam:But I will say, the construction, the quality of a Steve Socket cigar has always been a 10, and this cigar, for those categories, it's a 10. Absolutely. But the experience of capturing a flavor profile that we can identify as a typical traditional cigar was lacking for me, so I'm at a five in what I was capturing from
Gizmo:You just gave
Bam Bam:me a heart attack. Now I'm going to aggregate the two. Where am I? Like seven and a half?
Pagoda:Yep.
Bam Bam:So I'll round up to eight because of the incredible experience as far as how velvety, how creamy, how much smoke output I was getting. And the performance of it, I'll ratchet it up to an eight, but I don't think I'll ever have the cigar again. For me, it was so sweet from beginning right to the end. I had a tough time with it.
Pagoda:But it was very pleasant. It was like, it's
Bam Bam:Of course. Yeah. Of course.
Pagoda:And I did get a little bit of the coffee, the cappuccino coffee kind of flavor.
Bam Bam:But that also, that feeds into that sweetness that you can't identify as real
Senator:or not. To me, there was a nuttiness almost And nuttiness.
Pagoda:You're right.
Bam Bam:Didn't care Yeah. You know, if I would've gotten a walnut, an almond, a nut, any any nut any nut would've brought me more toward a earthy experience. First two thirds? I would have I would have
Senator:macadamia nuts. Last third, almond or cashew.
Bam Bam:Macadamia, that kinda makes sense because it's a creamy it's a creamy nut, but it wasn't enough for me to actually identify at that moment. Now that you're saying it, it kinda makes sense, but I couldn't identify it during the cigar smoking experience.
Senator:There's actually like three nuts in it. This is super nutty cigar. The sweetness is what like, if you're if you're paying so much attention to the sweetness, you may lose it. I know. But to me, actually, the first third was macadamia nut, the second third was hazelnut, and the final third was cashew.
Senator:That's actually like
Bam Bam:I totally disagree only because I You are wrong. Look. No. No. Honestly, I I call out walnut in a lot of cigars and almond in a lot of cigars.
Bam Bam:I didn't get any You of that eat either way
Senator:in this cigar. That's why
Bam Bam:Well, yeah. I didn't see I I couldn't experience that flavor at all.
Pagoda:We'll get
Senator:you some macadamia nuts.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I do love macadamia nuts.
Gizmo:All right, boys. The former lizard rating tonight on the Dunbarton Tobacco and Trust, Sobremesa Brule in Robusto is an 8.2. Okay.
Pagoda:Yeah.
Gizmo:I think that's a little low.
Bam Bam:I'm happy with that score.
Pagoda:I think, yeah, I think that's, I think that's slightly on the higher side, the way it started. But the way it ended, I think it really pulled itself a very, very This is a tough one. Yeah, the second half.
Bam Bam:This is a very tough cigar. I see where Senator comes, I mean, point you're making is in morning smoke. I'm gonna try this in the morning with a cup of coffee. I'm sure I'll love it because it's like having
Gizmo:It's like a little power
Bam Bam:of ginocino scone and a coffee.
Senator:Yeah. It's a home run as a morning cigar.
Bam Bam:Only like a reason decent Yeah. That I
Senator:rounded down to the eight is like, and this is maybe my own problem, but I am a purist. Maybe. And if there is any credence to this notion that this cigar has some artificial flavoring
Gizmo:on it.
Poobah:So that's sweetness on the temper's
Senator:at least a whole point, if not two points off for me. Like Yeah. That's just not what I want. It's not what I pursue. Correct.
Senator:And and and to me, it it, like, undermines the premium category.
Poobah:Well, it's not what you see in pre it's not a a flavor profile on the light that you see in premium cigars Like, that's it's I've never had a cigar outside of an acid or and I'm even embarrassed to say that I've smoked these. An acid or what's the other one?
Pagoda:You've come a long way.
Poobah:Well, no. I mean, meaning like someone that's just it's there.
Senator:He's like, no. Haven't You're come a long drunk. This was last week.
Poobah:No. But I mean, like, whatever. It's there. What's the other one? Acid?
Poobah:The Java or something like that. And just by smelling it, there's something that tasted not natural
Pagoda:Not natural.
Poobah:A about that didn't feel organic in the first third. And to me, that's a mystery. You can't explain that to me because if somebody else could create that- It didn't feel like tobacco. It would've created.
Bam Bam:If the performance of the cigar wasn't a 10, this cigar would've scored a six or a seven. Oh, lower. The quality
Poobah:the build
Gizmo:would be great. I think if the light was bad, if combustion and the draw was bad, it'd be a very
Bam Bam:low scoring cigar because it actually does smoke like a premium cigar.
Poobah:It does.
Bam Bam:It's a beautifully made cigar.
Poobah:It does.
Bam Bam:In category, it's a 10.
Senator:I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The reason I totally disagree with that, you can have a perfectly constructed cigar, but if the flavor is absolute shit, it's gonna be a low performing
Poobah:cigar. Right.
Senator:Well This didn't get an eight point something because
Bam Bam:was so damn sweet. That's why it performed that's why the
Pagoda:flavor was so
Poobah:really saying it didn't get an eight point something because of Ramon Alone's, which has a much better flavor profile than this fucking cigar.
Bam Bam:How are we getting in there?
Senator:No. Don't I'll just explain what I meant by what I said, and that is simply that there's no cigar on this podcast that scores well without the flavor delivering something really enjoyable. Correct. So, like, this notion that this just got this score because it was well constructed, most New Worlds
Bam Bam:are well constructed, and we've given them fives and sixes.
Senator:Like Yeah. Right. The flavor profile was enjoyable.
Bam Bam:It was embarrassing.
Poobah:Ramon Aloni.
Bam Bam:Just don't know if it was natural or not. That's the problem.
Senator:Which is why I took off two points.
Bam Bam:Yeah. And we all did.
Senator:And I will throw this out there. You know, if we, you know, ever make it to Nicaragua and verify I'm happy to visit wherever these are made in Oh,
Bam Bam:yeah.
Senator:And if we can leave there supremely confident that there is nothing added or sprayed on this cigar, and somehow he has struck some absolute magic to produce this level of sweetness naturally from a tobacco leaf.
Bam Bam:Well, by cases of this shit.
Senator:I'll I'll revise my score. Correct. Obviously, I can't from a lizard rating standpoint.
Bam Bam:Nope. And we gotta check on Pagoda. I I know Pagoda was gonna jump out
Gizmo:of his seat. The head of the auto auto commander.
Bam Bam:I just wanted to wake him up.
Senator:But I I can't obviously, you know, change that score, but I will at least say then, in my eyes, this cigar absolutely deserves a nine, if not even a 10
Gizmo:That's true. For what that's trying
Senator:to do as a mild smoke.
Gizmo:If it's natural. Right. So, boys, let's compare this to the other four cigars we've done from the Dunbarton Tobacco and Trust on the pod. On episode 110, they debuted with Muestra de Saka, The Bewitched. That's the one that came in the coffin.
Gizmo:Scored an 8.7 on episode 128. The Sincompromiso Celexio number four scored a 9.4. That was a great cigar. Yeah. That was On episode great 140, the Sobremesa, the sister line to this, and Cervantes Fino scored a 7.8.
Gizmo:And finally, on episode 179, the Umbagog in bronzeback scored a 9.3.
Bam Bam:Yeah. That was good.
Pagoda:That was good.
Gizmo:So this is kind of right in line with what we've been rating with Saka. Yeah. You know, between eighty seven and ninety four except for that one Sobremesa that performed a little weaker.
Bam Bam:I think overall we love his cigars.
Gizmo:Yeah, we just gotta
Pagoda:You know, because his construction's great and the smoke up, it's fantastic.
Bam Bam:Yeah, but all of those other cigars have flavor profiles and flavors.
Gizmo:And flavors. Gotta verify what's going on with this sweetness because I am uneasy about it. It's
Bam Bam:weird Yes, to correct.
Gizmo:You know, but it was a good gateway pairing tonight. I think both the cigar and spirit and a great conversation. I think both the cigar and the spirit are good gateways from folks who are either inexperienced or prefer something sweeter and lighter and taking them on, you know, taking them on the bridge to something more premium and and what we smoke and what we drink here on this podcast. So an appropriate pairing tonight. Let's go through the ratings one more time.
Gizmo:The 12 years age Glenn Morangie, single malt scotch scored an 8.6, and the Dunbarton Tobacco and Trust Sobremesa Brule in Robusto scored an 8.2. Let's congratulate again our lizard of the week, Lizard Buzz. Like I said, anyone can win lizard of the week. All you have to do is write us, send us an email, a voice memo, a senator said, whatever you choose, just get in touch with us, and you can win some stuff from us. And finally, we have to thank our sponsor, Fabrica Five.
Gizmo:They have been great partners to us. They have great cigars. They have a new 13 pack sampler with 13 cigars. You get two of each, 26 cigars. They have a great sampler.
Bam Bam:That's awesome.
Gizmo:The Bon Roberts one zero nine is available now. Everything's back in stock, so go choose some of their stuff and use our code.
Bam Bam:Love you, Rob.
Gizmo:And, boys, what a great night. Yep. Good pairing, and we'll see everybody next week.
Poobah:Keep smoking.
Gizmo:Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You could find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, loungelizardspod.com. That's loungelizardsp0d.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.
Gizmo:If you have any comments, questions, if you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking, email us. Hello at loungelizardspod.com. You can also find us on Instagram at Lounge Lizards Pod. We really appreciate your time, and we'll, we'll see you next week.