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Welcome to the Rail Technology Magazine Podcast. Keeping you up-to-date with the most current rail industry news, giving you an all-access pass to the key insights and innovations helmed by the decision makers in our industry
Episode 45.mp3
Transcript
00:00:01 Speaker 1
Any technology, it's important not to get lost in the hype, and it's important to think about what does this change for doing the core job.
00:00:11 Speaker 2
I think ultimately.
00:00:12 Speaker 2
The A team of diverse people in a room discussing a problem, overcoming them together, throwing in their different ideas, having the disruptor in the room is always in.
00:00:20 Speaker 2
And that's the way to add huge value and achieve better productivity.
00:00:25 Speaker 3
They know that across the railway is the sustainable option and we can deliver that in more better way. I think that's a great opportunity for us.
00:00:33 Speaker 4
This is the rail Technology Magazine podcast, bringing views, insight and conversation from leaders across the rail industry presented by Richard Wilcock. Transit Rail is the homie debate, and this year's event did not disappoint. This episode of the Rail Technology Magazine podcast takes a look at the first debate of the event.
00:00:51 Speaker 4
Which focused on industries efforts to modernise and improve.
00:00:55 Speaker 4
City, sponsored by Arab our panellists were Chris Myers, director of digital services at Arab, as well as Phil Harrison, also a director at Arab and Rubina Greenwood, senior programme manager for control and signalling and Network Rail, and Martin Fenner, Business Development director at Tilt Consulting.
00:01:13 Speaker 5
I think to set the scene, I'd quite like to ask you all the same question, if that's OK, and we'll do a bit of a round robbing, starting off with Chris, I'd just like to explore what the the biggest challenges are that the industry faces in terms of improving productivity. I'll put my teeth back in and and why these are so important.
00:01:33 Speaker 1
Yes, thank you. So I think we've certainly heard from the first couple of speakers some some of the the challenges around why in terms of funding, in terms of the needs for improved productivity, that 50% figure in terms that, that, that Tim mentioned earlier in terms of reducing the amount of things done within the office and getting more things done on the front.
00:01:52 Speaker 1
Mine, from my perspective, speaking as a a person who's both consider themselves a a digital person and and a railway person there, there's a huge amount of legacy in in what we do. Legacy IT systems, legacy processes and and and and.
00:02:09 Speaker 1
You know, we, we we run the operation of the railway on on mainframe systems still that are older than I am and and I'm getting on.
00:02:17 Speaker 1
A bit. No, you're not as.
00:02:18 Speaker 5
Old as I am.
00:02:20 Speaker 6
We, we, we.
00:02:21 Speaker 1
We a lot of our plumbing and design processes still owe a huge amount to the the days of paper and pen, or albeit there's been some change in that time and and I'm continue I I've worked quite a lot in the the kind of planning environment and talked about how how do you get.
00:02:37 Speaker 1
They operate a digital railway. If you don't have a digital timetable, so there's a lot of.
00:02:42 Speaker 5
Challenges there. We've been at this issue. We're.
00:02:45 Speaker 5
Nodding away through some of that.
00:02:47 Speaker 5
Yeah. Tell us. Tell us.
00:02:47 Speaker 3
Your views? Yeah, I I I I support what Chris mentioned, but I think in network real perspective, I think the one of the biggest challenge we see.
00:02:57 Speaker 3
Is of course legacy assets and the policies around for renewals, which is we do more like.
00:03:04 Speaker 3
Like and that actually sometimes slow down the productivity because we are relying on the older technologies and older way of sort of delivering things. So I think there is an opportunity for us to even though we do a like by like we need to look at how we are delivering those schemes or.
00:03:24 Speaker 3
Big capital projects or renewal projects, we need to look at how long we take to develop these schemes. How can we innovate the processes to delivering those schemes in a more reduced way? So there's opportunities as well. But there's a challenge.
00:03:39 Speaker 3
So that I think the productivity we could improve is by looking at the scheme development, the time we take at the moment we take for a small renewal signalling scheme for five years and we need to look at the standardising the processes around that space that how can we that not for each signalling scheme or any scheme.
00:04:00 Speaker 3
We repeat those things, but we have a standards requirements or standards to specification which we can bring in the front to improve the productivity. So I think that there is an element, the challenge is.
00:04:12 Speaker 3
We need to look at our asset policies for renewals, right? We need to look at the schemes, how we develop, how can we innovate in in sort of standardising and kind of mainstreaming the delivery of the projects.
00:04:26 Speaker 5
And Phil, I I like the way we've been used this opportunity in the same sentence. There's challenge that was a little bit like Tim Walden.
00:04:33 Speaker 5
Saying, you know, we are living in really exciting times. What? What are your thoughts on our first question?
00:04:38 Speaker 2
So thank you. So as a global skills leader, one of the part of my role is that role and the main challenge I see is a major challenge. I see, sorry is the impact of and the need for skills for the future, so.
00:04:50 Speaker 2
You know, we're going to introduce more technology, quicker, ways of doing things, more information, more digital, all sounds brilliant. And but how do we make sure our people are ready for that and that they understand what that means and what the impact is on their role. So we're finding within our for example, we're finding with people now experts at coding, data analysis, parametric design, things that weren't even invented when I started.
00:05:13 Speaker 2
25 years ago, so perhaps coding was.
00:05:18 Speaker 2
And so yeah, but a couple of that, I think the, the, the, the Council that perhaps is I'm also really keen that we maintain and provide that continued depth of the main knowledge. So there's a real risk as.
00:05:27 Speaker 2
Well, that we.
00:05:28 Speaker 2
Go off on these digital journeys and then we forget that we actually need this, the railway to work fundamentally and therefore domain knowledge is also really important.
00:05:38 Speaker 2
So we we maintain compliance and safety and all those other very important things.
00:05:42 Speaker 5
Martin, welcome to our conversation over to.
00:05:44 Speaker 6
You. Thank you. I think you know related to what David was saying earlier this.
00:05:48 Speaker 6
And we are seeing.
00:05:50 Speaker 6
A rapid development of technology, but I think we've also got to recognise there's a rapid development of the enabling technologies behind that, things like communication systems, computing, cybersecurity. I I think I lost track of the number of times you said the word data in your introduction to the panel. But you know again like Phil says 20 years ago.
00:06:08 Speaker 6
That might that wouldn't have been the case.
00:06:10 Speaker 6
So there's a there's a a very rapid development of the enabling technologies and therefore the skills that are required for it is I see is a big challenge whilst retaining that opportunity.
00:06:20 Speaker 6
Need to the real knowledge and domain knowledge around the railway, so I see that fitness challenge.
00:06:24 Speaker 5
Fantastic, Chris. Obviously there's a lot of talk about technologies at the minute and a lot of attention and perhaps scepticism from some of the public and and fear about artificial intelligence. We're gonna talk more about that later. But digital twin is another major theme over the last few years, I am presuming.
00:06:42 Speaker 5
Having read a lot of the background that you sent me, actually that they are key to the future of railway and actually instead of being afraid of some of you know, not knowing much about it all, they will transform our railways. What key role do you think that you know technologies?
00:07:02 Speaker 5
And you know, like AI, like digital twin will play in in delivering as a fantastic railway of the future.
00:07:10 Speaker 1
I I think we've any technology it it's important not to get lost in the hype and and it's important to to think about what does this change for, for doing the core job. I think Tim talked about earlier about the purpose of doing railway infrastructure engineering is is to deliver for end passengers.
00:07:29 Speaker 1
Freight taking a step back, the purpose of doing of, of buying technology, of doing digital work is about enabling infrastructure to enable on passenger and freight. We're we're not, we're not the star of the show we we we've previously done some work with with both in rail and and other sectors where we've talked to to senior leaders.
00:07:49 Speaker 1
You're asking us the question, what is a digital twin? Where do I go and buy one? Sometimes it's it comes from the government has told me I need one for my projects or for my railway and and.
00:08:01 Speaker 1
For for me, it's all about just taking a step back and and talking about what you're trying to achieve. Avoid just going out and buying the latest piece of fantasy software or the latest thing that that's hit the the the hype trail, albeit you you may need that.
00:08:19 Speaker 1
You often have the things you need that just need to to get them to talk to each other, link together more and and you do that really by having the right the common vision, the common model that people can work to make sure you get your data right in terms of the structure, the quality and the ownership.
00:08:34 Speaker 1
But also kind of focus on people changing on skills, which I think some of my colleagues that we'll talk a little more about.
00:08:40 Speaker 5
Yeah. Well, Phil, you touched on skills there and I'm just wondering what skills are the ones to really invest in over the next few years and how will those skills contribute to improving productivity?
00:08:54 Speaker 2
Thank you. So yeah, in in advance of respond to that question, I actually canvassed the view from around global.
00:09:00 Speaker 2
Europe so and actually their their their views aligned with mine and summarise across the.
00:09:07 Speaker 2
Themes. So firstly we need to empower our people to challenge the norm. It was great to hear talk of of efficiency and doing better and how digital compliance that is is part of it. So empowering our people to do that.
00:09:23 Speaker 2
Secondly, to invest in skills outside of the norm. So outside of so.
00:09:28 Speaker 2
Been out. We have lots of designers and engineers, but we need other people. We need people who can do things other than design and provide engineering engineering advice.
00:09:36 Speaker 2
And thirdly, it's about communication and how we collaborate with each other.
00:09:39 Speaker 2
So on the first couple.
00:09:40 Speaker 2
Of couple of examples. So on the first one around challenging the norm, I think.
00:09:45 Speaker 2
We need to keep questioning why things are done the way.
00:09:48 Speaker 2
They're done.
00:09:49 Speaker 2
And look for better alternatives.
00:09:52 Speaker 2
But one of the countries said we need to also resist the urge to make continuous incremental improvements but take fewer, bigger steps forward. So digital signing day we talked about before is an example of that rather.
00:10:03 Speaker 2
Them changing the colour of the lights, let's get rid of the lights. Let's do a large step forward on the other skills outside engineering design. I think we've mentioned already data analysis, parametric design automation.
00:10:16 Speaker 2
And how we manage data on projects, we need to think about the data we get at the start of a project and make sure it's useful at the end of a project and that will help with asset management that will help into network rails responsibility and there's lots of opportunities I think in that side of things for SME's and supply chain in this room and outside of this room to support into that. And on the on.
00:10:34 Speaker 2
The communication side.
00:10:36 Speaker 2
I am.
00:10:38 Speaker 2
I think I've noticed over the last few years how people communicate has changed. It seems now that the hierarchy has gone from being phoned to e-mail well used to be letter.
00:10:49 Speaker 5
Now as old as me, not quite.
00:10:49 Speaker 2
Has now become.
00:10:51 Speaker 2
Teams message seems to be top of the tree.
00:10:54 Speaker 2
For some of.
00:10:54 Speaker 2
Our staff and we need to work out, is that the right way? How should we collaborate with people? Should we communicate with people, isn't it?
00:11:00 Speaker 2
Great to be in a room with people, yeah.
00:11:02 Speaker 2
And I think ultimately the the team of diverse people in a room discussing a problem, overcoming problem together, throwing in their different ideas, having disruptor in the room is always important.
00:11:13 Speaker 2
That's the way to add huge value and and achieve better productivity just.
00:11:16 Speaker 5
Briefly, Phil and I only ask you this because I have a 14 year old train geek at home who volunteers at Ruislip, like Lido Light Railway every weekend and the highlight of his weekend is is driving trains, which I did last weekend on driver.
00:11:33 Speaker 5
The five a week.
00:11:34 Speaker 5
And how important is it that you motivate youngsters and that you that you let you know schools know about these fantastic opportunities? Because I don't think even my little boy who's really motivated by rail and transport, I think he's got no idea of all this amazing stuff and careers that he could go into potentially.
00:11:55 Speaker 2
Yeah, versus CV to us, we'll sign him up. Yeah. No, always. We we do lots of outreach work into schools. I think really important. I'm sure everybody in the room does the same. And. And the social value you get from that is also really important. And we do it through either through projects outside of project.
00:12:11 Speaker 2
So absolutely, we should be selling engineering more take, you know, the STEM movement is fantastic, but it's still water, I think to remove that sort of stigma.
00:12:19 Speaker 2
Of the geek.
00:12:20 Speaker 2
Yeah. And the other tanks, we, we.
00:12:23 Speaker 2
Perhaps get given within within our work.
00:12:24 Speaker 5
And computer science too, I think that's really important. Yeah. Right now, Martin, it's not about me. It's about you guys. So over to you on the skills front.
00:12:31 Speaker 6
No, I think you know, we're talking here about improving productivity and I think that rapid development of skills is really important. We need to be looking at ways to bring people into the industry through apprenticeships through through graduate development and and really giving them that domain experience as quickly as possible.
00:12:47 Speaker 6
I think that's been quite difficult in a fragmented industry and so ways of ways we can collaborate across industry between clients and suppliers and consultants and and so forth is really important and and and working together to that common goal is is is key. And so yeah collaboration and and bringing people forward.
00:13:07 Speaker 6
As quickly as possible and.
00:13:08 Speaker 6
Using organisations out there like the young rail professionals for example, selfish plug, you know to to to, you know, give people a breadth of experience so that they get the breadth across the industry but also some some deeper experience in specific areas I think is.
00:13:25 Speaker 5
Really key. Yeah. We'll be hearing from some apprentices later, Robina.
00:13:28 Speaker 5
Did you want to add to that?
00:13:29 Speaker 5
Before I move on.
00:13:30 Speaker 3
Yeah, I mean I I I just wanted it not on the skill side, but definitely on artificial intelligence and digital twin. I mean, yes, these are the very great provide both a great opportunities for especially for clientele like for.
00:13:46 Speaker 3
That rail, but I think it's very important for us as a being a client to understand what we want to use for it and what we want to deliver with this artificial India, because it's a massive technologies, so many things can be done. It absolutely has a potential to solve lot of our process issues or or the data issues.
00:14:06 Speaker 3
But as a client, we need to be smart how we want to use those technologies and what is applicable to it. So I think that's the really I want to.
00:14:15 Speaker 3
Put the message out.
00:14:15 Speaker 5
Really important. The thing that struck me actually was what the difference the technology can make to safety.
00:14:20 Speaker 5
And to what? And you know, we're using cameras on trains. How you can see what's happening on the lines instead of perhaps in the middle of the night, having workers on the lines. I was quite gripped by what Chris sent me, actually. Robina, what about the supply chain? How can they work best with Network Rail and other infrastructure managers to to improve productivity? What are your tips there?
00:14:40 Speaker 3
I mean very good question because I have some of recent some examples, but absolutely because before the current role of synthetic in my Medi was system integration had for digital railway programme and where I also worked with a number of suppliers.
00:14:58 Speaker 3
Absolutely supplied has got a solution. They have got answer to many challenges. What we have got in network grade or any other I am but I think we need to work better. They need to tell us that these are the answers available which we find difficult to find out that the supply market.
00:15:17 Speaker 3
Has got ants?
00:15:18 Speaker 3
So that's element is to working more closer, more working in a more collaborative manner it.
00:15:25 Speaker 3
Really makes easier life for I am and say in supplier so give you example and currently in synthetic environment which is one of the biggest programmer digital side of it is we we've been working very informally.
00:15:39 Speaker 3
Very closely with supplier, especially SME, medium cyber suppliers, they have a fantastic solutions, fantastic opportunities. But if I didn't have the approach that informal conversation, I would not have been able to find out that these solutions answers are available.
00:15:56 Speaker 3
Lot of semi supply chain do like standardisation so we need to look at in that space as a client and I am that we need to look at more standardizations more kind of prototyping things that add actually gives a certainty to the our supply chain as well. So there are elements we can do it and there are there are elements.
00:16:15 Speaker 3
Supply chain can do it to to basically tell us what they have to solve our problems. Another project we're working on, the E links, which is again related related with delivering digital technologies, especially on signalling side is elings.
00:16:32 Speaker 3
Absolutely. So much call we get approach we get from supply chain because we are looking to standardise the interfaces of technologies. This is where they attract because this gives them a certainty on the business and it's also solves our problem in terms of productivity. So bit of really working more in, in a in a very closer.
00:16:53 Speaker 3
Relationship to to understand, to solve the problem as a community is the key to.
00:16:59 Speaker 5
This. Yeah, I think those examples really, really bring your points to life. Robina Martin, what about SME's? How do they fit into the jigsaw?
00:17:08 Speaker 6
Thank you. Appreciate the the the opportunity to to bring that topic here. I think you know small to medium enterprise access and these are critical to this tapestry. This jigsaw I would say that because I'm I'm an SME but it really it comes down to partnerships and relationships and and and that comes back to people.
00:17:29 Speaker 6
And people are working with people in this sector. We don't generally pick logos, we we choose to work with individuals and people that we want to work with and.
00:17:36 Speaker 6
And that really comes across when you look at collaborative ways of working. It's it's, it's about the best person for the role, not necessarily which organisation.
00:17:47 Speaker 6
They come from.
00:17:49 Speaker 6
I think that builds on trust, you know, for for an SME to be successful and for a client to want to work with an SME that needs to be that trust.
00:17:58 Speaker 6
So that so that that can actually.
00:18:00 Speaker 6
Build as a relation.
00:18:01 Speaker 6
Leadership. But there are challenges. You know, there are barriers to entry. It's really it. It can be quite tricky to to, to break those down. And there's an issue around confidence. So you know Tim's points around the the funding for CP7 in, in the Southern renewals enterprise, that's valuable messaging.
00:18:21 Speaker 6
For everyone to have confidence in the pipeline of work that's coming up. So that and that's the same for small companies and large companies, everyone wants the confidence to be able to invest in their people, invest.
00:18:32 Speaker 6
Just in their processes, bring new people into the industry and invest in that development.
00:18:38 Speaker 5
And and how Martin can we break down those barriers and and try and build the confidence?
00:18:44 Speaker 6
And that comes back to people and relationships and and partnerships and and and building on small steps. So it's not about taking on a big contract.
00:18:52 Speaker 6
Or a big opportunity first, it's about, you know, doing something small, delivering well, building that trust. And and it it takes time.
00:19:00 Speaker 5
It's nice to hear. You know, you talk about people and trust.
00:19:03 Speaker 5
And collaboration in a digital age because of course people are always still going to be at the heart of all this, whether it's the people delivering or the people we're serving passengers and and freight users. So again it would be nice to ask you all, I mean Martin's touched a bit, but how can we encourage and build collaboration between different disciplines and organisations?
00:19:24 Speaker 5
In railway projects, Chris, if you want to to kick us off on that, that would be great.
00:19:29 Speaker 1
Yeah. I I I think within our our founder many years ago from a buildings architecture point of view talked about the concept of total architectures getting all the different disciplines to work together. And it's certainly my colleagues on the rail engineering side at at at at at have been thinking.
00:19:49 Speaker 1
You know, how do we get track and signalling to be aligned for example and and and the same applies in in digital as well. How do you get? How do you think about?
00:19:56 Speaker 1
About the business, the data, the technology you're using and and the end outcome you want to do, how do you look as that as a whole and then hone down in the right direction and get get kind of get connections across silos, link up the world of operations and maintenance with with a with a common data approach for example. So so making sure.
00:20:16 Speaker 1
People are speaking the the same language to each other and and in terms of the technology and the data, they're.
00:20:23 Speaker 5
Robina, any insight into what you're up to on that front?
00:20:26 Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, I I mean, of course, collaboration is a key element, but I think.
00:20:27 Speaker 5
At Network Rail.
00:20:33 Speaker 3
In delivering the larger schemes and and the and and and the capital projects or renewal, I think we need to think about more in a system engineering aspect as well. So looking at more holistic system rather than individual because I think.
00:20:48 Speaker 3
That will sort of bring the collaboration of system discipline together, but also efficiencies of delivering whether we are delivering renewal projects or capital projects. So I think system integration thinking needs to be core to the delivering and kind of addressing the issues of productivity.
00:21:05 Speaker 5
And how do you do that in in you know in your organisation?
00:21:11 Speaker 3
I think the the way we develop our business planning, I think that's the crucial for it and I think I think David talked about the integrated plan from early on. So having that early on thinking.
00:21:22 Speaker 3
That there are some enablers when we deliver trackside, we have some sort of platform works needs to be done same time or station works need to be they need to be integrated as A1 integrated programme rather than treat it as a separate kind of asset base. So having that sort of system thinking very early on when we develop the business plans.
00:21:44 Speaker 3
For renewals or capital delivery to have that approach built in from early on?
00:21:48 Speaker 5
Phil, over to.
00:21:49 Speaker 2
You. I'll come back to people again, Sir, another colleague said to me that railway schemes fall flat on their interfaces. So.
00:21:57 Speaker 2
So it's really important for us to to breed, to help our designers and engineers and digital specialists become more broad, but also coupled with additional with a domain specific skill. So we call about T shape or even key shape where you have more than one disciplined skill rather than just eye shape people who either they do one thing or they do lots of things.
00:22:18 Speaker 2
To no.
00:22:18 Speaker 2
Depth. So that's really important. I think that helps then then you start to understand what each other's issues are. You can communicate better with others and therefore you can.
00:22:25 Speaker 2
Collaborate better with others. Fantastic.
00:22:27 Speaker 6
Listen, I think the key to this is making it fun. I think going back to some of time comments, if this is.
00:22:32 Speaker 6
Fun and and.
00:22:33 Speaker 6
We we develop a culture of people wanting to break out of their silos, learn about different disciplines, have that curiosity to learn as well, and develop that.
00:22:43 Speaker 6
But that only.
00:22:44 Speaker 6
Comes by being supportive to people who want to.
00:22:47 Speaker 6
Supporting people to learn and making it a culture of not of, of losing that fear of failure. So if if we make mistakes, we learn from.
00:22:55 Speaker 6
It rather than.
00:22:56 Speaker 6
Being too afraid to try new things.
00:22:58 Speaker 5
Martin, what excites you most? I mean, you have a vision of what's happening over the next 5-10 years in rail.
00:23:06 Speaker 5
You know, when we've all talked on this panel about, you know, remembering writing letters. And I remember learning to send an e-mail when I was 30, something so things are moving very quickly, but when you just take time for a copper and perhaps reflect a moment, what excites you most about what's coming?
00:23:20 Speaker 6
I think the development, the opportunities for individuals to learn and develop is the most exciting, you know, seeing other people develop and pick up new skills and get that aha moment is is fantastic.
00:23:32 Speaker 5
And Chris, why now? Why is it so important to improve productivity now?
00:23:40 Speaker 5
They feel like we're in, we're in a. There's a moment. Isn't that? There's a moment.
00:23:44 Speaker 5
Where it needs doing.
00:23:46 Speaker 1
Now, yeah, I I think the the industry has a lot of work to do and it it has a limited supply of people, of money, of, of resources. At the same time we we are trying to become more sustainable. Therefore we we want.
00:24:04 Speaker 1
You know, we, we we heard earlier about reducing the amount of embodied carbon, for example.
00:24:11 Speaker 1
We we have to change the way we do things. There is there is no way we can carry on doing doing what we're doing existing that that bar wave of signalling looms ever closer. For example, if we don't change the way we do things, it's it will be the difference, the whole industry and and the flip flop.
00:24:29 Speaker 1
Side of that is that there's a great opportunity for all of us to deliver more successful work, more successful work on the infrastructure.
00:24:38 Speaker 1
Get a better performing railway, delight our passengers.
00:24:42 Speaker 5
Well, I was just gonna end with Rubina, just a a final thought. Of course. You know, from your perspective, obviously passengers are at the heart of a lot of what you do. What are you most excited about for passengers over the coming years as all this works, you know, gets, you know, continues.
00:25:00
I think it's a.
00:25:01 Speaker 3
Transport and especially railway transport, is one of the best and sustainable solution for the work of other our generation or GB public and overall nation. And I think the the the slightly cost you know the why we need to look at now because right now after the COVID after the current political situation.
00:25:21 Speaker 3
The the the situation or economic crisis we are going through it. It's more pressure on the railway to deliver, best, deliver cheaper and and satisfy our customer because customer now know the transport customer means passenger and freight.
00:25:36 Speaker 3
They know that across the railway is the sustainable option and we can deliver that in more better way. I think that's a great opportunity for us and also personally on the sort of railway point of view, I'm very excited is that the work in digital railway.
00:25:56 Speaker 3
We've done in the last five years where we launched first and I personally led the whole pro.
00:26:00 Speaker 3
I'm on the GB railway standardisation of ETCS, TMS and connect to advisory system. They are now going to be used by flagship projects such as E CDP and and TRU, and it's a really great opportunity for me personally that I was part of that instead of in in.
00:26:20 Speaker 3
Developing and supporting that initiative.
00:26:23 Speaker 3
And the passengers, school and freight community will receive this new technologies to be able to use more efficient railway on the.
00:26:33 Speaker 5
As fantastic as a as a passenger and I use the rail a lot, I'm a great fan of the railways. It's great for me to hear what goes on behind the scenes and get a real insight into some wonderful.
00:26:43 Speaker 5
Work that's being done. I knew this first panel would absolutely fly by. It has we're we're out of time. But it's been wonderful to talk to you. So thank you so much for kicking off today. So.
00:26:53 Speaker 5
Well, for us, thank you.
00:26:53 Speaker 4
Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Rail Technology Magazine podcast and the Transition Rail S 2023 leaders debates.
00:27:02 Speaker 4
Series don't forget transcity Rail N happens this.
00:27:05 Speaker 4
November and look out.
00:27:06 Speaker 4
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