Join Andi Graham of Big Sea and Warren Wilansky of Plank as we explore the future of cultural engagement through the lens of museums, arts centers, and cultural institutions, talking with innovators crafting unique digital experiences that inspire and transform the way we connect with our communities.
Andi Graham (00:01.031)
Hey everyone and welcome back to the digital stage. Warren and I are really excited to have Hayden Corotis with us today. Corotis. Hayden Corotis. Hayden is a social... I took a little practice, but I think I did it. Hayden is a social media and digital marketing veteran. He's got over 15 years of experience working with some of the biggest brands in the world from Coca -Cola to Unilever.
Haydn Corrodus (00:10.411)
Got it.
Warren Wilansky (00:11.31)
Got it right.
Haydn Corrodus (00:16.907)
You got it.
Andi Graham (00:26.011)
But his passion really lies in the arts and culture world. And he's worked with over 300 different organizations from the Southbake Center to the Brooklyn Museum and served as the tech champion for the Arts Council England's digital culture network. So whether you're a museum looking to boost your online presence or performing arts org, he's your guy. And he's also the founding partner of We Are Stripes, which is an organization that advocates for diversity and creative industries.
And if you're looking for some quick social media tips or really deep social media tips, you've got to look at his LinkedIn because he's one of my favorite followers on LinkedIn. And he shares everything from how to outsmart the YouTube algorithm to a weekly roundup of digital news relevant to museums and cultural organizations. So Hayden, I'm super excited to talk to you today. Welcome to the show.
Haydn Corrodus (01:00.215)
You're good.
Haydn Corrodus (01:12.791)
Thank you. That was such a great intro. I'm going to use that as my new bio. Thank you. Perfect.
Andi Graham (01:16.359)
I'll send it to you when we're done, no problem. You can use it all you want. I will preface that with the fact that Google Gemini did help me with that. That's what it's good at is synthesizing information. The future of AI. Last week, Warren and I actually spoke with Nick Wines at the Tank Museum.
Warren Wilansky (01:20.59)
You
Haydn Corrodus (01:30.199)
But it worked, it worked.
Warren Wilansky (01:30.764)
Mmm.
Haydn Corrodus (01:36.343)
You
Haydn Corrodus (01:42.815)
Okay.
Andi Graham (01:43.079)
which was a recommendation I got from your LinkedIn, which is so useful and helpful to me all the time. But it really opened up my eyes to what's going on with the creator economy in social media and museums who are finally starting to jump on that bandwagon. What are you seeing? Why do you think it's taken so long?
Haydn Corrodus (01:47.671)
really?
Haydn Corrodus (02:07.319)
and culture are they can be scared of what they see as commercialization of so things that seem overly commercial or overly selling of an idea and I think it's about reframing how we see the word influencer or reframing how we see
what it means to influence a crowd or to connect with a crowd. There's a one of my colleagues who I've worked with in the UK named Becky and she works for the South Bank Center actually and she said something really incredible to me. She said if you want to grow you need influencers. In today's there's no other way to really build and to grow quickly to connect with audiences outside of using work with influencers. But because the arts and culture see influencers as
do this dance move or we're selling you this product. We're not looking at the wider picture. There's some incredible arts and culture Instagram pages and TikTok pages or creators specifically who just make really in -depth content about art, about history, about culture, that museums and galleries that everybody can be tapping into to reach their audiences. And they have massive audiences. So I think it's just about reframing how we look at the word of arts and culture, how we look at the word influencer.
and what it means to be part of the creative economy.
Warren Wilansky (03:26.958)
You know, one of the things that going to build on that, one of the things that in the last discussion we had with him was he said the biggest moment, revelation moment for his museum, and I wonder, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, was when they started to value an online visitor and not only value an in -person visitor. So they started to understand and accept that it was okay if somebody wasn't going to visit their museum and they could still have a relationship with them online.
Haydn Corrodus (03:51.561)
Exactly that. I know Nick has very strong views on this. So for example, I know for example with Nick, he does see it very clearly that...
Their online audience is their online audience and their in -person audience is their in -person audience. And there's nothing wrong with that. Whereas I feel that with arts and culture, there is a, especially museums or galleries, there's an idea that we have to speak specifically to everybody who walks into our space. And we're not thinking about, okay, how are we just adding value? How are we telling stories that people are going to find interesting and that we're then top of mind? So then when we're top of mind, they then think about if they're in our location, they'll come to us or...
And then we're not, because we don't think about monetization enough. We're not thinking about how we can get the most out of our platform. So because we're thinking about it from a, okay, who's going to come into the venue? We're not thinking about how we build this platform to build our own communities so that we can monetize. So we can be creators ourselves, so we can be the creators. And I think that's, and I think again, Nick is a perfect example of that with their YouTube channel, which has made lich quite literally millions. So, yeah.
Andi Graham (04:52.199)
You
I think his story felt a little bit unique because he's in an institution that's so far removed from a major population. And so I'm curious, you know, you did work with the Brooklyn Museum, but it sounds like you do work with other organizations that maybe don't need, it's hard for me to understand how they would value their online visitors at the same level because of the fact that the foot traffic is not an issue, that that's what they are truly working towards primarily. So.
How do we get around that?
Haydn Corrodus (05:27.415)
I think, again, there's a big digital gap and there's a big digital literacy gap, I believe, in arts and culture. And this is not because of the fact that they don't enjoy marketing or enjoy digital, but what tends to happen is...
Andi Graham (05:32.677)
Mm -hmm.
Haydn Corrodus (05:40.489)
Organizations will have a team who are curators or archivists or whatever that may be. And somebody likes digital and they're like, okay, yeah, you can do this now, but they haven't had no background in it. They've had no training in it. And sometimes they've got lucky and things have worked, but without the actual background, it means that they haven't been able to really understand their reason why and what they're trying to achieve. So what then happens is that then you then get organizations who...
are smaller organisations who they don't know what success looks like for them. Does that make sense? So they don't know how to actually define what success looks like for them. So therefore they're now looking around and seeing everybody else is doing XYZ and they're like, why aren't we doing this? This isn't working.
Andi Graham (06:11.559)
Yeah. Yeah.
Haydn Corrodus (06:20.471)
so if you're a small organization, that is a key point, really understanding what success looks like for you based on your resource level. I often say like, if we do, if you do a campaign and you get a hundred views on a video, this is an arbitrary number, you get a hundred views on a video. and then you look at it say, this is really bad, but then your, your best video before that is only 15 views. It's like, there's been a success, but it's hard to gauge that if you, if you don't understand what success looks like or what the insights are telling you in the first place.
Andi Graham (06:52.359)
Yeah, and content creation really is about consistency above all else. It's hard to learn what people are resonating with if you're not constantly trying new things and producing new content and putting things out into the world. And so I really do see, you know, we work with our clients all the time and I see people just give up because they're not getting the traction that they think they should. Instead of pivoting their strategy or trying something new, they just give up and that's tough. You know, you talked about the teams and I think that that's a,
really relevant point that, you know, a lot of these small institutions have really small teams. So I'm curious, as you think through the social media side and the stuff that you consult on, how do you suggest they build a team or how do they, how do you suggest, yeah, what's the first hire look like? And then what's a definition of success for that?
Haydn Corrodus (07:44.695)
So again, this is another really interesting one because success should be based on what you're trying to achieve as an organization. So whatever your business goals are, that will link to what your digital success is based on the stories you're trying to tell. So.
Andi Graham (07:53.125)
Mm -hmm.
Haydn Corrodus (08:00.119)
for me understanding that will help any team straight away understand where they want to go. So if you know that okay realistically we're only we're never going to get a social full -time social media person there's no point in you trying to say okay we're going to build this a million strong followers and we're going to xyz and the social media person is only going to work two hours a week it's just it's just it's just not feasible it's just not feasible but if you if you can if you can define what your success is based on your objectives that's that is always the good place to start.
After that, what I would then always say is then is social media, especially digital in general is planning. I would say 90 % of it is planning. So if you can plan and start to get those internal processes in place so that you say, okay, we're going to plan for the quarter. We're going to batch, we're going to create batch content, which then allows us to then go out and maybe be more ad hoc as things turn up. But at least you know, you've got a batch of content that's going to go out no matter what happens. So just getting that kind of getting used to that is always a good step.
And then thirdly, I always say, just start. I know it's a bit cliche, but just start, just start, see what, see what lands, just do stuff and see what you enjoy doing. I started with the videos because of a few different conversations I was having at the time. And I hate seeing myself on camera. I hate hearing my voice and all of those kind of those kind of, and I was very much like, how do I speak? Do I lower my voice? Do I speak lower? Like, do I, am I more of myself? All of these kind of nuances are flying through your mind when you're thinking about creating this content. But.
Warren Wilansky (09:15.692)
Hehehe
Andi Graham (09:22.471)
Hehehe!
Haydn Corrodus (09:27.991)
You just get into a rhythm the more you do it and you can only get into that rhythm once you start.
Warren Wilansky (09:33.326)
That's really good advice. Go ahead, Andy.
Andi Graham (09:33.415)
Yeah. And.
I totally, yeah, no, that's what I was going to say that museums are so rich with stories and cultural organizations have so, there are so many stories that I can't imagine it be difficult to come up with content to batch and to get your curators on board who are his entire job is to collect, you know, to put these narratives together in a way that's compelling and interesting and relevant.
Warren Wilansky (09:44.588)
Hmm.
Haydn Corrodus (09:53.365)
Exactly.
Andi Graham (10:03.751)
It's just such a rich place for content production.
Haydn Corrodus (10:07.831)
And I think that's another thing, music and arts, opposed to galleries and also brands as well to a lesser extent, they don't.
sometimes understand that the beauty of understanding the platform and understanding that aesthetically, it's sometimes the story is the most important part. And yes, you're going to have different elements of different moments when you're going to have those big hero moments where you're going to have a bigger piece of polished piece of content. But your everyday content doesn't have to necessarily be this shiny piece of content. And a lot of those bigger kind of like this, there's a, this is probably not a fair example. There's an example called the gaze art and they're really, really good at creating all these really, really,
funny but nuanced videos about different arts and culture pieces and they tell these stories but then there's on the other hand you'll get another content creator who will literally have a green screen and they'll just be talking to the screen about something in the back of them and they'll have a hundred thousand, two hundred thousand, fifteen million comments because they're just telling stories about arts and culture in a way that people can relate to and that people understand. So...
Andi Graham (11:01.607)
Yeah.
Haydn Corrodus (11:10.443)
Once arts and culture organisations start to move away from the idea that everything has to be super shiny and super polished and has to have to be... Yes, obviously I understand that you have to have correct stories and you can't be... There has to be facts and basis behind what you're saying, but you can still tell stories in a way that doesn't have to be so shiny and that someone can see it and not feel like they're being sold a story or they can feel that they can connect to it because it's relevant to them.
Warren Wilansky (11:40.302)
Yeah, I'm sure organizations struggle with that because if you're, let's say, let's say you're Brooklyn Museum, you're used to certain production value of whatever you're putting into your museum. And you kind of have the mindset of, I have to do the exact same level at that. But, you know, there's some experience of like, you know, there's also the experience of going to the cafe in the museum. And that doesn't have the high production value, but it can have just as an enjoyable experience. I mean, you know, building on that, I'd love to hear how you have or how you've gotten across to...
cultural institutions to make that shift and make that change.
Haydn Corrodus (12:12.503)
It's difficult and it's very much a data story. Like you have to be able to tell the story of the data. You have to be able to understand what, it's twofold. So for me, you have to understand what the senior stakeholders actually want.
because if you don't actually understand what they want, it gets lost in translation between the different levels of the organization. So if the senior level have told you this is what we actually want, it's then about you being able to articulate that, say, OK, this is what you want. This is how we can achieve this goal. What is the actual goal? By achieving that goal, we need to build a community. If you want to build a community, you have to create content that is relevant to that community. You don't create a content for yourself, you're creating content for the community.
that will then obviously lead to whatever objectives you have. So it's that understanding of how to speak to senior stakeholders and how to break down the actual, what it is you're trying to do, and then always keeping them in the loop, because if you're keeping them in the loop, the more they see the successes, the more they start to understand it. Because at first they're like, well, doesn't make it, this isn't really working. The Museum of English Real Life is a really good example in Twitter. So on Twitter,
they became well, X now, sorry, or whatever you are. But yeah, they were really successful on Twitter a few years back, but they had a sheep basically, they had a little sheep which was a...
Andi Graham (13:22.151)
Hehehe!
Haydn Corrodus (13:33.855)
I can't remember what they called it, but it did really well as a meme and it blew up as a meme and then it became really funny. Then they got all these celebrities who bought into it. Elon Musk, ironically, actually bought into it as well and changed his logo to their logo. So like, so lots of crazy things actually did happen off of the back of their Twitter. But I actually spoke to their senior team at the time and they didn't understand it. And it was like, this doesn't make sense. No, we're not going to do it. Why are you doing this to our archives or to our content or to our...
to our exhibits and as they start to see the success, they're like, okay, maybe, maybe we can get involved. Yeah. now people are coming. people are now saying, we saw the tweet or because a famous person tweeted, yeah, we're now coming to your museum. So it's a process. It's a process of understanding that it's a process and being able to show them the results of what you're doing, even small and making sure they understand the data.
Warren Wilansky (14:09.774)
Yeah.
Haydn Corrodus (14:30.519)
I'll give you an example. So for example, recently, and I've got this written down because I thought it was a good one. So recently I've posted two things on LinkedIn. So if without context, it's hard to see where the success is in this. So one post got 55 reactions, 15 comments, five reposts, and 4 ,000 impressions. Another post got 18 reactions, five comments, two reposts, and 14 ,000 impressions.
Andi Graham (14:56.455)
Hmm.
Haydn Corrodus (14:56.855)
If you don't understand the context, which one is the most successful poster? If you haven't got a, an idea of, okay, this is what we're trying to achieve. How do you say which post is most successful? One post got a lot more reactions, but a lot less impressions. One post got incredible amount of impressions, but small amount of reactions or engagements, which, how do you gauge what it is? And without that for me, my.
Andi Graham (15:15.782)
Mm -hmm.
Haydn Corrodus (15:19.383)
I want people to engage in my content. So I would read that and say, the 14 ,000 impressions was the one that did the best because of the fact that that means someone has come back and kept on looking at this post consistently, even if it only got 18 reactions, despite the fact that another post got 55 reactions. So it's just being able to understand the stories you're trying to tell in line with what your objectives are. And I think that piece is really missing in arts and culture.
Andi Graham (15:45.543)
It is, it's really, it's hard to tie to social media in particular when everything else has a more demonstrable ROI. So the emails we're sending out and the, you digital marketing that we're doing and the paid media that we're doing, like we can actually, you know, cookie lists or not the, you know, and attribution is its own issue, but they're a lot more tieable, a lot more attributable. And so, it's easier to invest in those things for sure. there's also seems to be a strong misconception that.
You know, anyone can do social media. We're all on social media every day. So like, you know, my 13 year old cousin can run our social media account.
Warren Wilansky (16:18.766)
Mm -hmm.
Haydn Corrodus (16:22.391)
The thing is that misconception is not wrong. That is actually true. The issue is the strategy. So, anybody probably could run your channel. If you tell them, okay, you need to post this, this is the time of day you need to post it and you need to be in the comments, you probably could. But what happens is they leave them and say, okay, do it all. You don't understand how strategy works. You don't understand what your organization objectives are.
Andi Graham (16:32.007)
Mm -hmm.
Haydn Corrodus (16:47.923)
they don't understand none of that we're just posting and we're just see what happens and that's where the issue is. It's the understanding the strategy, understanding the why for everything you put out, understanding what we're trying to achieve, how you build in a community, how you add in value to that community, how is it driving to our website, how is it driving to our newsletter subscriptions, how is it driving to our to our webs or e -commerce stores, whatever that may look like and if those are our objectives.
Andi Graham (17:13.991)
Yes.
Haydn Corrodus (17:16.127)
What are the stories we're telling that aren't so self -driven but are interesting enough to make people want to take these different actions?
Warren Wilansky (17:23.63)
I always come back to the idea of storytelling. I think that is the word that I think almost is like, at least for me and my team, is like the word of the year, which is that we have to be in the business of telling great stories, even though my team builds websites. But when we build a website, we want to make sure every page tells a story of some kind. And I think that, you know, you said something there which really resonates with me, which is like, there's the tactical side of things and there's a strategy side of things. And, you know,
tactics are one thing, but a strong strategy behind it, I think, probably is probably where you excel as a social media professional or digital marketing professionals. You probably come at it from creating that quality strategy.
Haydn Corrodus (18:02.519)
Yeah, exactly that. The strategy is key because what you're finding, and that's another thing that kind of scares me a little bit about some of the professionals within arts and culture sector is the fact, so you could be at a really big organization and be getting really good numbers, but not understand why you're getting those numbers and what they're doing to the organization. And that's the part where we're like, we need to be a bit more education around the strategic side.
Andi Graham (18:19.591)
Mm -hmm.
Haydn Corrodus (18:27.703)
how it's playing into objectives and how it's leading. Otherwise, we're going to get to a point where, similar to people who work at big brands, you're going to work at a big brand and be getting really good results, but not being able to tell why or how it's actually delivered something.
Andy, you mentioned earlier about it's harder to see the RRI on social, which is true. But if there's a strategy around it, it says, OK, our strategy is to build a community and not to sell, then it becomes easier to then find what success looks like. Because you can start seeing, OK, our comments are doing this and people are driving X amount of people to our website from our social. And you start to see those changes when there's a clear objective to be reached.
Andi Graham (18:51.431)
Mm -hmm.
Andi Graham (19:11.207)
I also hearken back to, and I've probably say this on every episode, but in my head, when I read the mission statements of the cultural organizations that we work with, it never says anything about like inside the building that we own, right? It never says like we want to share or preserve or, you know, inside these walls, it's always about a more expansive, you know, breadth of that mission. And so the fact that digital is not one of the major investments in channels in sharing that.
Haydn Corrodus (19:32.855)
Yeah.
Andi Graham (19:40.967)
is sometimes I think it's a big miss. And even, you know, Warren, maybe you know this, but when we build websites, I know the under investment in the websites to be as impressive as they could be is incredible to me when we still get museums that come to us who've just spent $8 million renovating a wing and they're like, we've got, you know, $60 ,000 to build a website. And you're thinking like,
Three times as many people are going to see this as they're going to see that brand new wing that you just added. I don't understand. Like we should be investing in it. And the exhibits should be built out just as beautifully, you know, on your website, because then that just feeds your entire content machine. You've got all kinds of neat things to share and interact with. Are there any institutions, and I know this might be hard to come up with, are there any institutions that you can think of off the cuff that are doing a really incredible job with content production?
Haydn Corrodus (20:06.871)
Just makes sense, yeah.
Haydn Corrodus (20:11.159)
Yep. Yep.
Haydn Corrodus (20:18.593)
Exactly.
Haydn Corrodus (20:34.967)
Content production, so Sacramento History Museum, they get a lot of good shout outs. They're really good on YouTube and TikTok. The National Gallery have recently, obviously I'm from the UK, so a lot of my organizations would be, yeah, would be UK references. But yeah, the.
Andi Graham (20:50.215)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got a lot.
Warren Wilansky (20:51.598)
You can go for those references.
Andi Graham (20:55.783)
I think it's neat, Sacramento History Museum can't be huge. It's gotta be a small organization, right? And the fact that that's who came to top of mind is just, it's so impressive that that's, you know, it's a shift in how you think about what you're doing. So it's neat.
Haydn Corrodus (20:58.615)
That's American, huh?
Yeah, hopefully.
Haydn Corrodus (21:11.191)
No, definitely, but they're so good, again, they've kind of doubled down on what story they want to tell and what part of the museum story they want to tell. And that's all they really focus on. And that's what's helped build their community online and which is lead led to people coming from all over the world to come and see the work they're doing. The National Gallery have recently just partnered with 20 different people, 20 different, just 20 different influences.
to create content for them for their 200, I think it's their 200 year celebration. So that should be interested. Yeah, to see what the 20 different influencers do over a span of a year to see what that looks like for them. So there's loads of interesting ones. Black Country Living, they're really good on TikTok. American Ballet Theatre, I think it's called American Ballet Theatre. They're brilliant on TikTok. They're really good at again, just showcasing. Yeah, they're really good at just showcasing.
Andi Graham (21:40.583)
that'll be neat. Yeah.
Andi Graham (22:00.679)
Yes, I follow them.
Haydn Corrodus (22:05.395)
the dancers and the stories behind about how you dance and the musicals and all of that kind of stuff, the ballets and stuff. So yeah.
Andi Graham (22:12.839)
They also do like the TikTok dances, which I think is so cool. Like watching professional ballerinas like doing this crazy TikTok dances in costume sometimes in the, like in the middle of Times Square or something, you know, or just on the street outside. It's so fun to me. So yeah, they're a great account.
Warren Wilansky (22:23.086)
You
Haydn Corrodus (22:30.455)
I go back to what you said, like if you're an arts and culture organisation, what we do is tell stories. So that's the part that always baffles me. How can we not have stories to tell? I used to work with libraries and libraries would be like, we've got nothing to tell. You're a library. How can you have, how can you have? That makes no sense to me. So yeah.
Andi Graham (22:42.823)
Warren Wilansky (22:43.598)
Yeah, there's no stories in the library.
Andi Graham (22:51.815)
So you go do training with organizations, right? What kinds of trainings do you do?
Haydn Corrodus (22:56.247)
So yeah, so how it basically started is in the UK, we have the digital coaching network and they are, if you're funded by Arts Council UK or if you're an arts and culture organization who can be funded by them, you can come to this team to get free digital consultation. So there'd be 10, I think there's more than 10 now, but when I used to be there, there was 10 different specialists who cover all of the different specialists and so from social, email, website, et cetera, et cetera.
Andi Graham (23:12.167)
wow.
Haydn Corrodus (23:23.889)
So part of our remit would be to do training sessions. So we'd do training sessions on the different platforms or the breaking news or how to do strategy or how to do audits and things of that nature. So that's how I kind of got into training organizations as well because it just led off from my time at DCM.
Andi Graham (23:37.125)
Yeah.
Andi Graham (23:41.191)
And now you're in Memphis.
Haydn Corrodus (23:43.159)
Now I'm in Memphis, Tennessee. So yeah, it's a big change. It's a big change from London, UK, but it's been amazing, if I'm honest with you. There's so much arts and culture that probably goes under the radar. Obviously America is a huge country, but goes under the radar in Memphis. And being here has opened my eyes to so much. There's so many incredible organizations, big and small, who are just doing so many incredible things. And the arts...
Andi Graham (23:45.063)
Yeah.
Warren Wilansky (23:45.678)
That's a big change.
Haydn Corrodus (24:13.463)
especially in the UK, tends to be a bit highbrow or can be highbrow. And there's so many organisations who, especially in Memphis, who are trying to break that, who are trying to make it more accessible, make it feel like you can see yourself in it and feel like you're allowed in these spaces. And that's, I think that's what's been up in my eyes the most. There's an organisation called Tone Memphis and they own, they've got like a really small gallery, but again, it's just...
Andi Graham (24:17.095)
Hmm.
Andi Graham (24:23.047)
Mm.
Haydn Corrodus (24:39.625)
I don't know, maybe five or ten of them in the collective who are just creating this really open space. And one week they'll have a ceramics lesson and someone will come and teach anybody who wants to learn ceramics. They'll have a painting segment and then they've got galleries and then they do festivals. And now they've bought a building. They've built like a whole building and they're trying to, a tower block rather.
and they're getting it renovated to make it like an arts and culture centre for like a underprivileged part of Memphis. And it's just incredible to see people just out there doing these great things and bring them to life in a way that is for me to see quite unique within the arts.
Andi Graham (25:19.079)
Yeah, I love that stuff. I'm in Asheville, North Carolina, and we have this entire district called the River Arts District that's all artists, studios, and galleries. And it's probably, I've never seen anything like it, even in the big cities. It's a concentration of probably six, 700 different studios and galleries in this, like all these old warehouses and just old buildings. And it's just such a neat space to be in. So my husband's got a gallery down there. So very cool. Yeah, it's really neat.
Warren Wilansky (25:19.374)
That's fascinating.
Haydn Corrodus (25:44.119)
Yeah, incredible.
Andi Graham (25:48.391)
So are you working more with clients in the US now?
Haydn Corrodus (25:51.159)
So no, I can't currently. I'm still waiting for my visas to clear. So at the moment, it's just everything is pro bono work at the moment. Just doing pro bono work. I've been connecting with some of the local organisations via the arts funds in Memphis specifically. And just, yeah, just get to know the city if I'm honest with you and connect with the right people. And it's been good, it's been good. Thankfully I planned this, so I'm okay. So it's just given me that time to really just get to know the city.
Warren Wilansky (26:14.894)
Hehehe
Haydn Corrodus (26:19.223)
try to connect with the right people and when I am ready to work, I'm ready to go.
Andi Graham (26:25.543)
That's awesome. And I will say you're doing us all a huge service by the content you're publishing on LinkedIn. So I will drop it again, like everybody out there needs to go follow Hayden on LinkedIn because you just do such a great job doing, putting together roundups and making what seems like it might be inapplicable, relevant to the alternate cultural institutions that you, that you're talking to. So, I really appreciate that and I love following you. So thank you.
Haydn Corrodus (26:31.447)
Thank you.
Haydn Corrodus (26:45.079)
Yeah.
Haydn Corrodus (26:52.439)
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That is one thing that I've learned about the arts, because I've worked commercially beforehand. If you don't show them how it's relevant to them, it just won't make sense. So yeah.
Andi Graham (27:07.975)
Well, it speaks to the, you know, we've worked with nonprofits in higher ed and cultural institutions, both have a really hard time wrapping their heads around the words customer and client and revenue. You know, it's, they're just, the language is different, but the outcomes are exactly the same. We're trying to earn a dollar. We're trying to get a foot through the door, you know, that sort of thing. So I think I love when I talk to some of the really,
Haydn Corrodus (27:18.807)
Yeah.
Warren Wilansky (27:19.182)
Mmm, yeah.
Haydn Corrodus (27:25.143)
Yeah.
Haydn Corrodus (27:28.631)
Mm -hmm.
Andi Graham (27:35.591)
forward thinking and entrepreneurial nonprofit folks that are really taking chances and looking at their peers in the for -profit world and saying, what are they doing here that we could borrow from or that we could even do better because we're a cultural organization filled with stories. And there's only so many things you can say about toothpaste or car insurance, you know, like we've, you know, they've got to make stuff up. So.
Warren Wilansky (27:53.358)
Hahaha.
Haydn Corrodus (27:55.031)
Yeah, exactly. And not just that, they borrow from us. They borrow from us so much, the commercial sector. They see arts and they see culture and they're so inspired by everything that we do, but yet we just seem to shun the commercial side so much. We can learn so much from the storytelling of Apple, the storytelling of these different brands. And we have all of the capabilities to do it. And sometimes, for example, there's a great...
Andi Graham (28:09.999)
Yeah.
Warren Wilansky (28:10.766)
Hmm.
Haydn Corrodus (28:23.959)
With the Tank Museum, one of the main people who does the videos is the curator there, someone who works there. Even the team who are internal.
find out what their interests are. Are they interested in doing these things for social? Are they interested in telling stories in a unique way? You never know who you've got in your team who might be the next star for you. And I think that's the same for the Sacramento History Museum. I think the lead person who does their TikTok was a volunteer. So like, it's just, you never know the people who are already in your team who could really be helping you start to build these communities and tell these stories.
Andi Graham (28:37.029)
Yeah.
Andi Graham (29:01.863)
Yeah, it is. It's, you know, they're just, not only are they filled with stories, but they're filled with evangelists and ambassadors that are just eager to go out and tell the stories. And so I think a great move of a marketing director would be putting together, what is this arsenal that I can give you so you can take this out into the world and share it with people in whatever format it looks like for you. I can give you access. I can give you connections. I can give you time with whoever you need on the, on the campus, you know, whatever that looks like. So.
Warren Wilansky (29:02.414)
great lesson.
Haydn Corrodus (29:09.719)
Exactly
Warren Wilansky (29:10.722)
Yep.
Haydn Corrodus (29:30.167)
Exactly. Exactly.
Andi Graham (29:31.431)
That's cool. I love that. Well, Hayden, thank you so much for spending some time with us this afternoon. It was really lovely to finally meet you.
Haydn Corrodus (29:35.895)
That's good. Yeah, thank you, Brent, for me. It was good.
Warren Wilansky (29:39.534)
Yeah, thank you.
Andi Graham (29:40.455)
Good. And everybody go follow Hayden on LinkedIn. Seriously, it's so good. So, all right. Bye.
Haydn Corrodus (29:43.447)
Yes, please do. Thank you. Thank you. See you soon.
Warren Wilansky (29:43.502)
Yes. Yep, yep.
Warren Wilansky (29:48.174)
Bye bye.
Andi Graham (29:50.983)
Oops.