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Work like you’re not a parent.
Parent like you don’t work.
What if that whole system is wrong?
This is Full Stack Moms, and we are Mallory Lee and Shannon Curran, two working moms navigating tech careers, parenting, and everything in between. We talk about why the traditional rules of work don’t fit modern parents and how women in tech are doing things differently. Through honest conversations and behind-the-scenes stories, this show explores careers, caregiving, ambition, and the messy reality of having it all, just not all at once.
Connect with Mallory: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mallorylee/
Connect with Shannon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannon-sweeny-curran/
Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius
www.shareyourgenius.com
[00:00:00] Rachel Johnson: When you die, they're not gonna put like CMO or amazing marketer. They're not gonna put that on your headstone. They're gonna put mom or wife or those types of things on your headstone. And so like that combination of events led me to doing what I love and with the people that I love.
[00:00:22] Mallory Lee: This is Full Stack Moms.
[00:00:24] Shannon Curran: This is not a parenting podcast nor a business podcast, but a place where we talk building careers in tech, raising kids at home, and making it work in public.
[00:00:34] Rachel Johnson: I went fractional in 2019 and it wasn't really called fractional back then. It's kind of become like the new F word. Um, yeah, seriously, we'll leave that, we'll leave that for like another, um, a little bit later, but I became fractional as a way to slow down in between my kids.
[00:00:51] Rachel Johnson: I tell people that I have two speeds on and off. I figured that out, out about myself that I have no middle gear.
[00:00:59] Shannon Curran: Me
[00:01:00] Rachel Johnson: neither.
[00:01:00] Shannon Curran: Me neither.
[00:01:01] Rachel Johnson: Yeah. I say
[00:01:01] Shannon Curran: fast and asleep. I'm either fast or asleep.
[00:01:05] Rachel Johnson: I feel like that's, that's powerful. Women really have two speeds on and off, which. You know, awake and powerful and or, or asleep, which I really feel like most of us don't get much sleep these days either rocking the world or, you know, recharging.
[00:01:20] Rachel Johnson: But, uh, I was pregnant with my second daughter and I had just left a business and I had this like vision for myself of like, I'm gonna work. And this is like the old version of fractional, like, I'm gonna work Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. I'm gonna take my kids to the pool on Monday and Friday, which is like the old version of fractional.
[00:01:43] Rachel Johnson: Yeah. And so my daughter was born the end of March and I was like on March 30th. Oh geez. And um, early. Still fine. My first daughter was a micro female. I don't know if you remember that at all. Oh, I didn't
[00:01:58] Mallory Lee: know that.
[00:01:59] Rachel Johnson: No.
[00:01:59] Mallory Lee: Mm-hmm.
[00:02:00] Rachel Johnson: Yeah.
[00:02:00] Mallory Lee: Wow.
[00:02:01] Rachel Johnson: Um, yep. But we, we can get back to that story in a little bit. So I had this vision for the summer that I was going to, I've never been one to like take long maternity leaves.
[00:02:12] Rachel Johnson: I don't know why, but was gonna take a couple weeks off and there's a company that. I was intrigued by and that would wanted me to work with them and I said, yes, but I'm only gonna work with you three days a week. So that was kind of my vision for the summer. I worked with them Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday and was with my kids on Mondays and Fridays and we did a lot of pool time at the JCC over the summer, so Nice.
[00:02:39] Rachel Johnson: That was kind of my version of fractional that summer. And then the business, I say it, my first failed fractional. Gig if that's a, that was a thing back then. Um, yeah. They were like, Hey, things are getting kind of busy and we'd really like for you to like be here five days a week. So I came on full time, but was still getting paid O as a, as not a W2.
[00:03:04] Rachel Johnson: Yeah. Um, what I was still, yep. And I've always been attracted to. Small and growing businesses. I have had, I worked at ExactTarget, Salesforce and then I also, because I'm an OR fellow, which is an entrepreneurial business fellowship, I was asked by one of the co-founders of Angie's LA comeback to Angie's List after they dropped the paywall.
[00:03:29] Rachel Johnson: So a very pivotal point at Angie's List to come back. To run B2B marketing after they drop the paywall because of the state of the business. So I've always been attracted to businesses at points of inflection in the business, and I've done eight m and a events in my career.
[00:03:48] Mallory Lee: Nice.
[00:03:48] Rachel Johnson: So, you know, just I need to count
[00:03:50] Mallory Lee: mine.
[00:03:52] Rachel Johnson: Yeah. Um, I love it. Just being able to, being able to find points of change and be at companies understanding that. There's not always a path for you at the end and being okay with that, but being able to manage through change and help companies at, at points of inflection. So that was kind of my first fractional gig, was, yeah, you know, that, that time.
[00:04:19] Rachel Johnson: And then I had, I went on to work at a private equity company, which was my, I would say my last, um. I hate the term in seat, but my, my last W2 role before I went full time fractional and that point of inflection was I was asked to make a choice between my daughter, uh, my oldest daughter who was having a really important operation in Cincinnati and they wanted me to come back and fire an employee 'cause they were closing down my, yeah, my, uh, part of the company.
[00:04:56] Rachel Johnson: And they wanted me to come back and fire an employee and they told me that I was apparently making a choice. So, um, my, by going to
[00:05:03] Mallory Lee: your daughter's surgery?
[00:05:05] Rachel Johnson: No, I was sitting in the, I was sitting in the PICU with my daughter who had just had a really critical surgery. That was when I decided That's
[00:05:13] Mallory Lee: insane.
[00:05:14] Rachel Johnson: Yeah, that's enough to make
[00:05:16] Mallory Lee: anybody fractional.
[00:05:18] Rachel Johnson: Well, so I had a, I had a mentor that said to me, you gotta think about like what's in the center of your circle. And at the time I was having like an identity crisis of, I had always put, and I think a lot of women who are high achieving women put work as part of their identity.
[00:05:37] Rachel Johnson: I am a fill in the blank. I am a marketer. I am a revenue operations professional. They put that thing as part of their identity, and I had always put work as part of my identity. And when I left that business, I had always put work as the center of my identity. And this was at a point in the economy was when it was really, really tough to get a job.
[00:06:01] Rachel Johnson: And so I went without a role for a little while and I was like. I felt like I was like wandering a space, like trying to figure it out. And I felt like I was really lost. And I had a mentor that said to me, maybe somebody's trying to tell you that the path that you're on isn't the right path for you, and this happened for a reason and you need to put, you need to put something else in the center of your circle.
[00:06:24] Rachel Johnson: And so I started thinking about like what really? And my mom has always said to me like. Uh, when you die, they're not gonna put like CMO or amazing a marketer. They're not gonna put that on your headstone. They're gonna put mom or wife or those types of things on your headstone. And so like that combination of events led me to doing what I love and with the people that I love.
[00:06:52] Rachel Johnson: And that kinda led me to the fractional path. Being able to, like my son's birthday was yesterday and I didn't, dad's birthday. Thank you. He's, he was six. Uh, Melanie, I, oh, happy birthday to you.
[00:07:02] Shannon Curran: You're the one that gave birth. Happy birthday.
[00:07:04] Rachel Johnson: Thank you. Thank you, thank you.
[00:07:06] Mallory Lee: True,
[00:07:08] Rachel Johnson: happy birthday to my son that I gave birth to.
[00:07:11] Rachel Johnson: Um, but being able to not have to ask permission to go have lunch with my son yesterday, I don't have to ask permission to do anything to anybody, and so being able to be in control. Of my own life now and being able to just do what I want to do with the people that I wanna do it with is one of the main drivers of why I continue to do what I do.
[00:07:39] Rachel Johnson: So,
[00:07:39] Mallory Lee: yeah,
[00:07:39] Rachel Johnson: I know I just talked a lot, but I just wanted to share my drivers.
[00:07:44] Mallory Lee: No, that's amazing. You've got some incredible compelling events that, uh, led you to make some of these choices, and so it makes total sense to me. I had my consulting stent when Grayson was born, and so I decided I wanted to stay at home and then really that just meant being a consultant, working part-time, and
[00:08:06] Rachel Johnson: are we ever, are we ever really like poised to be stay at home moms?
[00:08:11] Mallory Lee: I thought
[00:08:12] Rachel Johnson: I, it's too hard.
[00:08:12] Mallory Lee: Could do hard. I
[00:08:13] Rachel Johnson: think it's too hard.
[00:08:15] Mallory Lee: You know, I wanted to try.
[00:08:16] Rachel Johnson: It's not for me. It's not for me, not for me.
[00:08:18] Mallory Lee: It's not. I admire it. I think it's amazing. I think, you know, I, I really wanted to give it a shot, so I tried, but I had the same fractional fails that you did, Rachel. So all of my consulting clients kept hiring me full time, and it was like.
[00:08:39] Mallory Lee: Consult, join full time, have a baby, take a break, consult, join full time, have a baby take a break. Like it just kept going and going. And so I think what I, what I pulled out of that is that I just really did love. Being part of like a bigger company and a bigger team, and I think that's part of why I have stayed as like a full-time W two-ish person.
[00:09:01] Mallory Lee: But with that said, the flexibility that you get as a consultant or a fractional employee or anything like that. Is pretty unmatched. And I know that Shannon, you will be much more disciplined. You'll probably not have the consulting fails. I can just tell that about you. Like your model. Yeah. I turned out is like a good model.
[00:09:22] Shannon Curran: Yeah. I turned on three jobs last year. I know. And I know
[00:09:26] Mallory Lee: exactly.
[00:09:27] Shannon Curran: And yeah, I was like, yeah, no. I try and think about my business as like I'm building a business. Like it's not a bunch of contracting gigs, which I think is what's helped me. To say like, Hey, if I go work for you, it means I'm not working for me and that that's not what I'm in this for.
[00:09:44] Shannon Curran: So I think that that's also Rachel. We've only done like three episodes and I'm almost crying already. I promised myself I wouldn't cry on this podcast like really early. But listening to you talk about this, like the idea that no one, I always say like no one has control of my calendar now. Like, no one has control, right?
[00:10:02] Shannon Curran: Like no one can book because they know that they see there's something open, or they decided they're more important than the other thing that was on there. It's like, I'm really busy right now. My business is very, very busy and I'm grateful, so grateful. But I do drop off every day. I do pickup every day.
[00:10:16] Shannon Curran: Like there are some non-negotiables for me. Like I, when we started this podcast, I was like, great, this is the only thing I'll do on Fridays. Like I used to have no meeting Fridays like I and like, but I'm fine working Saturday nights. That's fine. That's as my boss, myself, my boss. I tell myself that's fine.
[00:10:32] Shannon Curran: And because for me I would rather work Saturday nights and like last week I did drop off with my son. I have a two and a half year old and a. Eight month old and I bring her back with me usually, and drop off's, very chaotic. Getting both kids outta the house, like doing all the whatever. It's crazy. My husband goes to work at 5:00 AM so he can never help with that.
[00:10:51] Shannon Curran: So I allow myself to get like a coffee out like two times a week. Also, I like to see human beings that, uh, like IRL that's good for me, right? Like, and local coffee shops support the local biz around here. And I realized one day I went to go run back out and I looked at my daughter. I'm like, why don't we sit here and have breakfast?
[00:11:09] Shannon Curran: So we did. Like, we are the architects of the rhythm of our life. And that's why I tell myself, it's like one of the things I write in my journal in the morning, right? Like, or at night or whenever I end up journaling, usually not in the morning. Um, and it's, there is this like beautiful power to that, right?
[00:11:25] Shannon Curran: Like it is. And my kids are not gonna need me this much forever. Like, right? Like, I would love to hear Rachel, you're mm-hmm. Both Mallory and Rachel, you, you're both ahead of me in this way. Like I am still in the survive, survive and keep alive phase. But yeah, it's really, it is a really powerful decision to make.
[00:11:39] Shannon Curran: It is. And it's like, and it's hard. You're faced with the opportunity to do other things, to have security, like you have to really, really commit. It's really hard. Yeah. But for me, worth it right now.
[00:11:50] Rachel Johnson: Yeah. It's different. I would say. So our, we, our oldest is almost 12, and then we have a, a 7-year-old, almost 8-year-old, and then a now as of yesterday, 6-year-old.
[00:12:00] Rachel Johnson: And the, our, I can tell you, 12-year-old girls are. It's, it's a, whoa, um, it's just, whoa, I cannot imagine. Oh, it's middle school girls are mean. It's just like whole nother level. But there's sometimes where I like go to bed and I'm like. Uh, I was a good mom today and I helped her like mean girls are mean.
[00:12:25] Rachel Johnson: That's amazing. And there's just another level of mean, but it was like last week when I helped her make up with a, a, like a really good friend of hers and I could hear, and so little girls now, and I'll call her a little girl preteens now, they stand in the bathroom and they're all on FaceTime together.
[00:12:46] Shannon Curran: Oh, fulfill.
[00:12:47] Rachel Johnson: Um, and they're doing makeup routines and to hear them giggle and all, do their face like their little makeup routines together, like win Mom win this week because you know it, and it took us a minute to get there. But it's like those micro moments, if I was working, working my thankless W2 job, I would've missed that.
[00:13:12] Rachel Johnson: I would've missed that because I would've been traveling or I would've been working, or I would've been on some phone call that I couldn't get off of and I would've missed it. And I think that that for me is like, the thing is, I wouldn't have been able to be in the, and here's some advice, what, I have the best conversations with my daughter in the car, and I had another, I had another mom tell me that, that for whatever reason, when you're facing forward and driving, and she's in the backseat.
[00:13:41] Rachel Johnson: There's something magical about that conversation that you can have the deepest conversations with your child while you're sitting in the car. And I was like, what are you talking about? But I'm telling you, it works. So I've had, I've solved so many teen drama problems while I've been driving places with my daughter, so,
[00:14:03] Mallory Lee: Aw.
[00:14:03] Rachel Johnson: But. We solved all the problems in the world last week while she was giggling in the, in our bathroom with her friends. And I was like, mom, win this week.
[00:14:12] Mallory Lee: Absolutely.
[00:14:13] Rachel Johnson: So
[00:14:13] Mallory Lee: good for you.
[00:14:14] Rachel Johnson: But I would've missed it. If I would've been working some carpet thankless job, I would've missed it. So
[00:14:22] Mallory Lee: that's amazing.
[00:14:23] Shannon Curran: I do think, Mallory, you have the discipline though, of holding boundaries with a W2.
[00:14:28] Shannon Curran: That I don't have. So that's the, like, I, I think you are better at that though than I am. Like, I think it's interesting. I think it's a mindset, right? Like it's, it's, you can do it, it's just requires a certain, a role, a certain team, a certain type of person, a certain setup, you know, like I think it's very specific.
[00:14:45] Mallory Lee: Yeah. It has to be the right company and the right team. To your point, the boundaries are still super blurry because I don't count how many hours I work in a week and
[00:14:57] Rachel Johnson: mm-hmm.
[00:14:57] Mallory Lee: No, the flexibility, I still, I communicate that like early in interview process that the flexibility is super important to me.
[00:15:06] Mallory Lee: It's not the same, but you know, you do your best. You leave early to go to the school events regardless, you know, you have to like have some, some rules in place. But I just love what you said, Rachel, about the micro moments and being really present. I think no matter what kind of job you have, you can.
[00:15:25] Mallory Lee: Learn from that. Like these moments come and go and sometimes you don't even notice them, but like, just noticing them and and counting that win for yourself, I think is amazing. So I am like. You're such a mom goal. You're goals. Seriously, Rachel?
[00:15:43] Rachel Johnson: No, seriously. No, no, no, no, no, no. I, uh, I, I'm not, I think there's definitely times where I will call my mom up and my mom and I have a amazing relationship.
[00:15:55] Rachel Johnson: She and I, yeah, she lives in town. She has car seats in her car. I'm like texting her under the table. I'm like, mom, you know, like I'm still sitting a call. My husband's downtown like, you know, I need you to pick up our kids. 'cause they have this club after school at three 30 and I have a meeting till three 15 that I know is gonna run over.
[00:16:14] Rachel Johnson: And she's like on it. Yeah. And she's my kid's favorite person in the whole world and I'm so eternally grateful for that. And she's also an amazing sounding board too, and I think it's, regardless of. What your relationship is with your mom, but it's having those people in your life that you have a sounding board that you can say, am I crazy?
[00:16:31] Rachel Johnson: And they're like, no, you're not crazy. This is just life. But she, with my middle daughter, she is very strong-willed. Um, she also has a DHD at, which was, and ODD, which we've diagnosed the last year. And, um, there's many days where I call her and I'm like, mom, it's either her or me today. It's her. I don't know if we're gonna, I dunno if we're gonna make it one time.
[00:16:56] Rachel Johnson: Person's leaving the island and it's, today I'm gonna be voted off and my mom's like, she is, she's probably gonna be president of the United States one day. And I'm like, you're probably right. But we gotta make it through teenage years and I don't know if we're gonna make it.
[00:17:13] Shannon Curran: So
[00:17:14] Mallory Lee: isn't that all middle kids though?
[00:17:19] Shannon Curran: I joke that, um, I joke that my son, so you know how they just like, really, there's no better way to see this than like a very like a 2-year-old soccer practice. Like when you bring your kids, you're like, oh, these kids just are who they are. You know what I mean? Like there's only so much you can do
[00:17:33] Rachel Johnson: unapologetically.
[00:17:34] Shannon Curran: Yeah. And so my, I started my son in soccer this year mostly. 'cause it's really, so I live in Boston, it's very cold. Like, you gotta, like, we gotta do something with him. On Saturday mornings, my husband was doing overtime every Saturday, so I had both kids and I was like, forget that. Like we need an activity.
[00:17:47] Shannon Curran: So I bring him and there's eight other kids, and he clearly understands all the instructions, just decides if he like cares to or not. It's one of those where he is like me and he is one of the youngest kids in there, but he, he knows what's up. He just is like, eh, sometimes I don't feel like doing this, so I'm not going to.
[00:18:04] Shannon Curran: And then at one point the coach goes, ready, set. And Sebastian goes, go and all of the kids just like, he like created like a coup at soccer. Like he, he decided, but everyone was gonna go like it was his choice. And I look, sometimes I'm like, I either have a CEO or like a really scary, like dictator on my hands and we're gonna have to make sure, sure this goes in the right direction.
[00:18:26] Shannon Curran: Like channeling this. He just does not care what any other kid is doing. Like he just, he's gonna do what he's gonna do when he wants to do it. And I'm like, is he like, it's kind of amazing to watch though. Like I am just like, so in awe of that, it's gonna make my life extremely hard as I think you were probably discussing, but it's like, I wanna foster that.
[00:18:43] Shannon Curran: Like, keep it going bud. As long as you're really nice, like you gotta be really nice. And if you are, then that's okay. But it's, uh, yeah. But yeah, I, um, he has the same energy and it's scary. Very scary.
[00:18:54] Rachel Johnson: We had a, so my middle daughter, we had a kindergarten teacher that labeled her as bossy, which is, by the way, my least favorite term for girls, by the way.
[00:19:02] Rachel Johnson: I, I adore this woman. She's actually my son's kindergarten teacher, but I think we got started on like the wrong foot. So very early in the year, she was like, Hey, we have a, we're having a, a challenge. My middle daughter's name is Eliana. We're having a ch a challenge with Eliana. She's like, being really bossy with other kids.
[00:19:19] Rachel Johnson: I was like, good. Like, I was like, hold on. Hold on. What did you just say? What word did you say? Um, she's like, we, you know, we're, we're, she's being a little bossy. And I was like, we, that, that's like a no-no word in our house. Like, I'm raising like strong, powerful women and I don't think you understand what we're doing in our house.
[00:19:40] Rachel Johnson: And um, I was like, what are you, well, like what are you seeing that she's doing? And she's like, well, she's kind of ordering other kids around and she like wants to be the boss. And I'm like. Yep. That trans, um, and
[00:19:54] Shannon Curran: are the
[00:19:54] Rachel Johnson: other kids
[00:19:54] doing
[00:19:54] Shannon Curran: the right things?
[00:19:56] Rachel Johnson: I was like, are they listening to her? And they're like, yeah, they are.
[00:20:01] Rachel Johnson: I was like, is she doing anything wrong? She's like, no, but she just wants to basically be the leader. I was like, and there's a problem with this because
[00:20:09] Shannon Curran: sounds like she has CEO potential. I don't know what the problem here is. I don't.
[00:20:12] Rachel Johnson: Or she's gonna be president of the United States, but Right. Wow. I don't know.
[00:20:17] Rachel Johnson: We, uh, had exchanged some words, and again, my son has her and she is phenomenal. But it was just like that, like one word that like causes you pause when someone calls, calls your very strong-willed daughter bossy, and you're like, Nope, we're, we're not going here tv, time out. We're just, we're not going here.
[00:20:36] Rachel Johnson: This is just not a word that we use to describe your child. So it's like those labels and then we just don't do it in our house. So it's good and
[00:20:45] Shannon Curran: it's not, it's like when you do it that early too, like I'm happy I own bossy now. I'm like, I am bossy. Oh, yes. Thank you. It's a descriptor of me. Thank you very much.
[00:20:52] Shannon Curran: Yeah. Um, like I am the boss, it's clear. Uh, so, but like, we don't need to put that on a child, but do you know what I
[00:20:58] Rachel Johnson: mean? Like that boss Yes. I'm being, I'm even being the boss today. But she was using it in a negative connotation. Yeah. And I'm like, no, you're not calling a five-year-old bossy. Like this is not, this is not a positive descriptor that you used it for my child.
[00:21:12] Shannon Curran: Or constructive in any way where like that's not, no,
[00:21:14] Rachel Johnson: like this is not helpful. Right? So,
[00:21:16] Mallory Lee: yeah, that's so true. How do you guys think about setting expectations with your clients to explain to them that you are going to have boundaries on the amount of time you put in, and you're going to have boundaries on.
[00:21:32] Mallory Lee: Maybe how many clients you have or what you reserve for family time. Like how do you have those conversations? Because you kind of have a sales cycle where you're making an agreement to work with this business. And I wonder, do you talk about that upfront? How do you set those expectations?
[00:21:49] Rachel Johnson: Yeah. Um, so the way that I work, my contracts in general is I give a.
[00:21:55] Rachel Johnson: Hour, or I give a hourly amount for the month, and I do that so that it allows, and I don't, I take on probably one main client and then I take on maybe like one or two smaller clients and then it maybe an advisory. So I, I like to go deep with my clients versus wide, it's just a personal choice. Of mine.
[00:22:18] Rachel Johnson: And so that client really is my main focus that, that main client, I am in the business. I have an email address, I have a calendar, and then I, I, number one, my calendar, I, I'm a live and die by my calendar. The first thing I do when I get into that business is I will block the four to five timeframe every single day.
[00:22:41] Rachel Johnson: That is my timeframe that I pick up my kids. I, both, my girls are all star cheerleaders and I am getting them ready getting snacks and they're at practice by five. I'm happy to take a call after at five oh five, but between four and five is mine. So it is blocked every single day. And that's, and there it's, it says ask before scheduling and is busy every single day.
[00:23:08] Rachel Johnson: And I make that very clear that it's a, it's an auto decline. And so that's just how I set the calendar up. So I think it's, first, from a boundary perspective, it's what are the words that you use on your calendar, and that's immediately the first thing that I do. Number two is I set my calendar to 9:00 AM so it's nine to, it's basically nine to four every single day,
[00:23:30] Mallory Lee: right?
[00:23:31] Rachel Johnson: Our kids have late start on Wednesdays, which is a whole other level of fun. My hate that middle daughter that, oh yeah. My middle daughter gets on the bus at eight 40 on Wednesdays.
[00:23:44] Mallory Lee: That is late.
[00:23:45] Rachel Johnson: Oh, it's late. Start whole life. You live before they It's a whole life. It's a whole life. I mean, she's really self-sufficient, but it's eight 40, so it's making sure that she gets on the bus.
[00:23:57] Rachel Johnson: It's making sure that you, there's a bus app so there can call to her and say, Hey, I need you to walk out to the bus, but it's still, I can't be in the middle of a presentation or something at that time. It used still have to be mom. And so it's setting those expectations with clients early to say, Hey, on Wednesdays, like this is the time that I have available.
[00:24:20] Rachel Johnson: And so I just do it all week. So for me it's calendar setting. And then the other thing I tell people is I set three month contracts. I do that for me. Okay. And I do that for them. If we like each other and we wanna set a longer contract, great. If it's not working out, that's okay too. On both sides. And
[00:24:39] Mallory Lee: got,
[00:24:40] Rachel Johnson: sometimes it's just not a match and that's okay.
[00:24:43] Rachel Johnson: So I'll finish my deliverables and you pay me and we're done. And I feel like that's fair on both sides. I also have a no asshole rule because I've worked with enough assholes in my career that I've had to stick around long enough, um, and endure, and I just won't do it. I love that rule. I won't do the disrespect.
[00:25:07] Shannon Curran: Everyone should have that rule. Yeah, for sure.
[00:25:09] Rachel Johnson: You get to pick and choose in this world who you work with, and I won't do it.
[00:25:14] Shannon Curran: Me neither. You're very disciplined, which is good. Uh, I have a little bit of a different setup where I actually don't do hours. If anyone asks me how many hours they get for me, I say, we're gonna align on milestones.
[00:25:28] Shannon Curran: So here's the milestones. Like I know what that takes usually to get done. They'll have me for the amount of hours that it takes, and all of my clients have the same retainer. And so I actually do like a standard offer. So it's a little bit different and I. Do have email addresses for all of them, but their calendars are not a source of truth for me.
[00:25:46] Shannon Curran: So like I will use like an invite on that calendar, that's fine, but that is not what my availability is. So my availability is still through my calendar link. You have to book through me. It'll show you what available times there are. So that's what I currently have going on. I really don't have this figured out though, Rachel.
[00:26:01] Shannon Curran: You're like way further down the road than I am. I'm hiring an EA right now because it's a nightmare. Um, so I like have to get a little bit of structure put in place. But yeah, I don't do meetings. I really only meet between 10 and two. That's pretty much it. I do make exceptions, but they are, they're exceptions, right?
[00:26:21] Shannon Curran: Like that's like I really prefer to meet during those times all my time. All my clients also are in different time zones, so I usually just try and make it work for whenever we have to. But yeah, I am. It is hard because my boundaries are a little bit flexible. My kids are really little, so their schedules are a little more flexible than like have a practice at exact same time every day.
[00:26:39] Shannon Curran: Like I can pick my son up anytime before five o'clock. Like I usually pick him up at three, but I can pick him up at four. Like yesterday I picked him up at four 15, not so I have like a little bit of a different situation and my daughter's just like there, so she's like, she's just hanging out. She's a ride.
[00:26:53] Shannon Curran: And, uh, my husband though, has a really regimented, he's a union electrician, so like he works union hours, so like, he has very, very strict hours. So I, that's like a fixed, that's fixed for me, which is good. So I can know when he's gonna be around when he's not. But I'm a little bit looser when it comes to my structure, but that just means I have to, as long as I'm delivering, I've never had a problem.
[00:27:12] Shannon Curran: Awesome. And I do, usually I ask them to commit to three to four months, and then we usually extend after that too. Little less specific on the contract, but Agreed. Very similar like trial period.
[00:27:23] Mallory Lee: That's great. I remember back in the day, I did so many different styles of contracts and some people just wanted to pay for a number of hours at a certain rate.
[00:27:36] Mallory Lee: And I was like, you know what, that's fine by me. Like I'll track my time and you can do that. So it allowed me to, you know, be diligent about knowing how much time I was putting in. But yeah, now I definitely don't track anything like that. If I tracked it, I might get scared. So wanna do like a small transition here?
[00:27:58] Mallory Lee: Rachel and I were connected to a lot of the same people on LinkedIn. A lot of people in our same circle, and there has been a little bit of drama lately around this, this fractional situation and you know, the new F word as Rachel said. So I would love to have Rachel comment on this and explain what is going on, but the gist from my standpoint.
[00:28:24] Mallory Lee: Is that people have started to put up a little bit of a boundary around fractional workers or fractional consultants versus operators who are like full-time in seat. And whatever you do with that difference, who knows? But to just even define it that way is getting a lot of airtime right now. And so I just.
[00:28:50] Mallory Lee: You had a great post on this, Rachel. I'd love for you to take us through how you think about this.
[00:28:55] Rachel Johnson: Yeah, I'd love to. So I think that, um, you're right, it's getting a lot of airtime and I'll say a little bit of unnecessary airtime. Um, I think that, first of all, we were needing a, I'll say a little bit of a nomenclature exercise.
[00:29:17] Rachel Johnson: Um. First of all, I hate the term inea operator. I mean, at the end of the day, in, in seat, I've sat in the, the CMO seat five times in seat, been paid as a W2 employee five times. I have worked with, I can't even tell you how many companies as the interim and or sat in the seat as a CMO. Fractionally and mm-hmm.
[00:29:45] Rachel Johnson: The fact that people are, this is my soapbox moment, by the way. Love it. Go off Queen. Bring it. The fact, bring it, the fact that people are saying that I do not have the same credentials as somebody that is being paid in a different way, makes me. So angry because we're being paid differently. So this whole term of inea operator, in my opinion, is being used as a gatekeeping language.
[00:30:11] Rachel Johnson: And it's, it's happening in executive communities, it's happening in events, it's happening for speaking. And so I can tell you that there was a conference that I spoke at a year and a half ago, and I went to apply to speak again on a different topic. And I was told by the event coordinators that they're no longer accept accepting applications from fractionals,
[00:30:38] Mallory Lee: same event that you've already spoken at,
[00:30:40] Rachel Johnson: same event.
[00:30:41] Rachel Johnson: And then to go even further,
[00:30:43] Mallory Lee: wow,
[00:30:43] Rachel Johnson: I wasn't, I'm not even allowed to go anymore. So a year and a half ago. 'cause they
[00:30:49] Shannon Curran: think you're gonna sell. They think you're gonna sell instead of be there as, yeah. Mm-hmm.
[00:30:53] Rachel Johnson: A hundred percent. So, um, and it's like, are you now saying that all salespeople sell. Are we saying that all CROs sell?
[00:31:02] Rachel Johnson: So we're, we're, we're now starting to bucket people in these buckets and saying that all of these types of people are exactly the same. All of these types of people are exactly the same, and it's, it's driving me batty. For me, it kind of begs the question of like, if we're talking about nomenclature, like what exactly are we talking about?
[00:31:21] Rachel Johnson: Is an in-seat operator actually? Because no one has yet to, like, not a community, not a event. Nobody has actually said like, this is our definition of what an inea operator actually is. So he, in my case, this is what I'm defining as just an operator. So I would like to remove the in-seat part, and I would just like to say like, this is what an operator is.
[00:31:49] Rachel Johnson: So I would like to say. An operator is somebody that needs to own, in my case, A-A-C-M-O. They need to own the marketing or go to market strategy and And the execution. They need to own budgets. Yeah. And p and l and key business metrics. They need to create and present board decks or advise CEOs and executive teams on board level narratives.
[00:32:13] Rachel Johnson: They need to be able to do those things and they have done those things. They need to make hiring, tech and positioning decisions. Not advise on them. They need to have done those things. They need to operate inside the business and not adjacent to it. Would you guys add anything else?
[00:32:30] Shannon Curran: No, I think there's also Rachel, I, I, this used to really bother me too, and then I was like, I just decided one day to be like, I'm too busy making money to care that you guys don't think I'm important.
[00:32:42] Shannon Curran: Um, so clip it. Um, but I, I think there is this interesting thing too, because I actually started my fractional business because I think I watched the average tenure of a VP be 15 months or less. I was just with, mm-hmm. One of my clients for longer than that, so I've actually been running marketing at it, a startup for longer than same.
[00:33:01] Shannon Curran: A lot of. In seat operators. Right? Same.
[00:33:04] Rachel Johnson: And
[00:33:04] Shannon Curran: I think there's, the reason why I started my business too is I thought Series A and Below didn't need executives. I think they don't, I think that they're a hundred
[00:33:11] Rachel Johnson: percent.
[00:33:12] Shannon Curran: So I actually think the model is broken and that's why I, that's why I started exactly what I did, right?
[00:33:16] Shannon Curran: Like I transitioned my first VP of marketing role into a fractional role because that's what they needed. They needed three doers and me. Guiding the strategy, going to the board, meeting, communicating, and with the budget, like all of the big, big decisions. And I joke now that, um, actually I had a very similar experience when I was a VP of marketing.
[00:33:33] Shannon Curran: I was asked to be on like five podcasts a week, four events, like everything, right? And the second I go, fractional, crickets, fine, whatever. I actually don't really care that much about that stuff. Just start your own podcast. Here we are. But I now influence four marketing budgets. So if you were a software provider, I could buy you four times right now.
[00:33:52] Shannon Curran: Like, I can buy you 400% more than any other inea operator. Right? Like, and so that's what I think is funny is like, get get 'em,
[00:33:59] Rachel Johnson: Shannon, get '
[00:34:00] Shannon Curran: em. Well, it's just getting girl, I'm just giving, I'm just spitting facts. You know what I mean? Like this is just true. Right? I know. And so I know a lot of what I'm asked to do is like, Hey, can you set up the team?
[00:34:10] Shannon Curran: Can you set up the tech stack? Like, can you do the thing? And I'm like, absolutely I can. I got a guy, I got a gal, I got a a thing, and I have a thing I hate and we're not using that 'cause I don't like it. Right? And they're like, great. You know, like it's a really interesting thing where
[00:34:24] Rachel Johnson: we want all your recommendations.
[00:34:26] Shannon Curran: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I do think there is like you're an influencer, like you're the definition of influence, right? Like that is what it is. And I do think there is, I think because the fractional world blew up in the last few years of a lot of executives that actually had lost their jobs and so they were doing consulting in between roles.
[00:34:44] Shannon Curran: That also has happened where they're just, yeah, sorry.
[00:34:48] Rachel Johnson: Um, they're toe tippers. They're, they're deciding whether or not they like it. And then, and then there's a bunch of people that are like you and I that are doing this for our careers and. Like, I got my whole body in the pool. I'm not leaving the pool.
[00:35:01] Shannon Curran: You're not leaving the pool. Tell me about it. I'm getting pruny in here. Like, tell me about it. It's, and I think there's, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. Like I think there is so much value in taking time in your career to try different things. But a, I think there is, this is like the internet hates nuance.
[00:35:19] Shannon Curran: Like it just hates it. And. Like nothing is dead, nothing is alive. You know, like all this stuff that you like to talk about, right? Everything is real. Everything is real and nothing is real actually. But I think there's, there is this idea that, oh, all consultants are just doing this 'cause they weren't successful full-time, or they are looking for their next full-time role.
[00:35:38] Shannon Curran: They can't get a full-time job. And it's like. That might be true for a lot of people. Like that's, and also that's okay too, like that if that's what you're, that the phase of your life you're in. Like we've all been laid off, like we've all had all those experiences, right? But like, I quit my full-time job to build this business and this is how I'm building it.
[00:35:54] Shannon Curran: And if you want my perspective, that's great, but I do think you're missing a huge mark of not engaging this really influential audience that can help your business. Right? Like I think that's a big part of it too. And so, yeah, it's interesting. I feel like I've been kind of away from the conversation. I know that it's there, but it like, that's happening.
[00:36:12] Shannon Curran: 'cause I'm kind of like, guys, I don't know man. Like, it's like if this is really getting your britches up in a bundle, like maybe you just met some fractional people you don't really like, like, which is okay. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, I, eh, I'm just gonna keep doing my thing. Yeah. You know, like there's, but the speaking thing stinks, Rachel.
[00:36:26] Shannon Curran: Like that is the worst. I hate that for you.
[00:36:28] Rachel Johnson: And it's that it's frustrating. It's so frustrating. 'cause it's like. Did I do something wrong last year like that? And I think that that as, as people, or at least that's how I work, is you first go to yourself, you're like, did I do something wrong? And I was like, no, it's not you, it's everybody else that, or it's one bad apple that's spoiled the bunch.
[00:36:48] Rachel Johnson: I do wanna go back to something that you said because I, I also work with a very similar audience. I work with series A and early B clients and I actually would add on to something that you said. I do not think it's fiscally responsible for those series, for those clients to be hiring multiple.
[00:37:07] Rachel Johnson: Executives that you're right, that carry $4,500,000 salaries, it's not fiscally responsible for them. The most fiscally responsible thing for them to do is to hire some doers, maybe, and then hire somebody fractionally that has your and my tenure in the world and have us fally in there and a fraction of that salary, by the way, to help them guide that.
[00:37:31] Rachel Johnson: And or to train somebody more junior up to maybe a director level.
[00:37:37] Shannon Curran: Yep.
[00:37:37] Rachel Johnson: It's not fiscally responsible and I think that that's something that people, they say it all the time are missing. You're missing the point, you're forcing some of these small companies to, you're telling them that what they're doing is wrong.
[00:37:50] Rachel Johnson: That they should go hire all of these bloated salaries when they cannot afford it. And, and
[00:37:55] Shannon Curran: equity dilute their equity. Like that's
[00:37:57] Rachel Johnson: another part. And dilute their equity.
[00:37:58] Shannon Curran: Yeah. Good.
[00:37:59] Rachel Johnson: When
[00:37:59] Shannon Curran: they're
[00:37:59] Rachel Johnson: not ready to do that yet. Yeah, so that's what the market is, I think, telling these small companies. And I'm like, what are you doing?
[00:38:06] Rachel Johnson: Like look at the market, look at these small businesses, and you're basically telling them that their strategy is wrong. So outside of me and you and our egos, or lack thereof, I don't care if I speak on a stage again. I mean, I do, but I don't. I'll find that, and you know, it's platforms like this with women like you, and I'll find that, but I'm more worried about my clients and.
[00:38:31] Rachel Johnson: Yes. What's, what's gonna happen to them if the market is telling them that what? That the strategy is wrong,
[00:38:37] Mallory Lee: so, well, I think if you, you're in there and it's working. The proof is in that, and your clients talk about those things. They refer you to other people. Hopefully people are not just getting swept up in LinkedIn chatter.
[00:38:51] Mallory Lee: I think the proof
[00:38:52] Rachel Johnson: isn't doing that well. Everything else that they're reading is fractionals are bad, and everything that they're reading and everything that their investors are reading is. Fractionals are bad. Eventually it's gonna come back around. Yeah. So that's what I am, that's what I'm worried about is yeah, that.
[00:39:09] Shannon Curran: Yeah, I've actually seen combating that, so I haven't seen it as much. 'cause I actually know I often am placed by a vc. Right? Like they'll in, not placed necessarily, but they'll refer me business. Right. And they close very well. Right. 'cause usually the companies like their VC to be happy and they love a light balance sheet.
[00:39:26] Shannon Curran: You know what I mean? Oh, they love, and I've, I've worked in vc, right? Like you worked in pe and so I actually think the more VCs that see value in this too, the better. Right? I work mostly with VC backed companies, so it's different than if you're bootstrapped, that's amazing. Go do that. That's amazing. But I think they also want you to be really thoughtful.
[00:39:43] Shannon Curran: I think we've also been around the VC. You kind of spiral a bunch of times. Sorry, this is not about being a mom, but I am curious here is enough times where they've seen, like you can't go through four sales leaders in one year. Like I have been at a company where I've seen four VPs of sales in the time that I was there, and it's like,
[00:40:00] Mallory Lee: that's
[00:40:00] Shannon Curran: crazy that that does, it just doesn't work anymore, guys.
[00:40:02] Shannon Curran: Like, and I think there's, and they're starting to get it too. I think, at least in my, hopefully I can give you a little solace, Rachel. I've started to see it on my end of them being like, wow, like you can get so much more efficiency out of this model. Like this is looking way better. So I hope that's a little bit of sunshine for your feeling on it, but I think maybe I'm just in a, maybe I'm just in my own little world over here, but it is, I see the chatter too though.
[00:40:23] Shannon Curran: Like I see it and I'm like, yeah, cool. Like, okay, like, yeah, SDRs are dead. They're not, they work some places, you know what I mean? Like, you know, like there's like,
[00:40:32] Rachel Johnson: they don't work other places, but that's fine
[00:40:34] Shannon Curran: because nuance and the internet hates it. You know what I mean? Like there's like, yeah, I think there's, it depends, is annoying, but it really does, you know?
[00:40:41] Shannon Curran: So.
[00:40:42] Mallory Lee: Yeah. Oh, it's crazy. Well, I am gonna be staying tuned to just see how this all pans out. I think that Rachel and I, and, and a lot of the, the moms, frankly, out there have a tight circle and they don't plan to accept this, like, as the new reality. And whether it's, you know, inadvertent or not, I think it does adversely impact moms because it does, moms have.
[00:41:10] Mallory Lee: This amazing opportunity to work less, make the same money or more be fulfilled, be there for their kids in this like fractional world. And I think it's more prevalent with, with moms. I could be wrong about that, but like a lot of the people that I know,
[00:41:29] Shannon Curran: yep.
[00:41:29] Mallory Lee: They are moms. And so you are. You're effectively boxing out this like demographic in a way that I don't think people will put up with.
[00:41:39] Mallory Lee: So we will see what happens. And thank you for being like so upfront about it, Rachel, and like just telling these stories of these crazy moments that you've experienced. Because yeah, I think there are a lot of people out there who probably could run into the same thing. Uh, and I think that you've handled everything with a lot of grace.
[00:42:01] Rachel Johnson: Thank you. Thank you. Keep find the good fight. Rachel, I appreciate you. I will,
[00:42:06] Mallory Lee: yes,
[00:42:07] Rachel Johnson: as one of the pioneers. I appreciate you. Thank you.
[00:42:11] Mallory Lee: All right, we are coming up on time. Yes. I think it would be great for us to do our saves of the week. All right. So this could be a person, a place. The thing like whatever it is that saved your butt this week, we wanna know about it and give a quick shout out.
[00:42:25] Mallory Lee: So Shannon, I'm gonna make you go first because I'm still trying to think about mine.
[00:42:29] Shannon Curran: Sure, I'm gonna do a person again, but it's really a setup and I, Rachel you inspired me. I had a different one, but you inspired me when you were talking about your mom. So my parents still work full-time, so do my in-laws.
[00:42:39] Shannon Curran: So I don't have like a grandparent childcare really, but my mom, uh, works four tens during the week so she can take Thursdays off and she's always watched my nieces on those on that day. So I've decided to hop on and have her watch my daughter on those days. So I go to their house and my mom takes my daughter.
[00:42:58] Shannon Curran: And she goes and picks up my nieces with her. So like talk about car seats in the car. Car seats are facing the right direction. We figured it out. Like one needs to be forwarded, one needs to be back. Like there's, but she has all the right car seats. And I always joke that I leave my brain and my bag at home when I go to my mom's to Nanas, right?
[00:43:15] Shannon Curran: Like she has the right size diaper, she has the snacks, she has like the cups, right? She has extra clothes she has that are in the right size mostly. And it is, and I go there and I'm able to. Really turn and I trust her, right? Like that's a really big part of it, right? Is like, you know, I have a, a baby that currently is refusing to take a bottle, so I have to be around, right?
[00:43:40] Shannon Curran: I am able to go there and I was back to back for five hours on meetings, which is so unusual for me. But I had stacked them all on this day because I had some spotty childcare earlier in the week and I was able to just rip, right? Like, I was like just in and out. I was plugged in, I was, you know. Her lighting in her dining room could do some work.
[00:43:57] Shannon Curran: But other than that, we were really rocking, you know, like I, uh, and so Major Save of the Week is, uh, is hotel nana, that for sure. And, uh, yeah, the car seat thing is man, like, to not have to think about that. Like there's just so much mental load that's taken off, right when you have that kind of help. So.
[00:44:12] Shannon Curran: Shout out to my mom. Yeah. I wonder if she's listening. She probably is. If she, if we could figure out how to get this on her phone. Hi mom. She doesn't know how to do that, so.
[00:44:23] Rachel Johnson: Oh. I went, I had one thing to that my mom actually watched all of my babies for the first six months of their life.
[00:44:28] Shannon Curran: Wow.
[00:44:29] Rachel Johnson: Oh, so you, you, you say like leaving the mental load there, you're like, here's my kid, bye. Gotta about them like,
[00:44:37] Shannon Curran: I survived. So they will,
[00:44:39] Rachel Johnson: I, I survived. Like, I literally was able to like leave my kid and not go like, Ooh, did daycare like remember to change your diaper or anything?
[00:44:50] Rachel Johnson: And then my son do the math, February 12th to March 10th, three weeks before COVID, she was, she was the only person that was allowed in our house during COVID. She did, she did COVID kindergarten with my daughter and. She had her own baby wearing apparatus. Wow. So it was either her, me, or my husband who was wearing my son.
[00:45:12] Shannon Curran: So, wow.
[00:45:14] Rachel Johnson: I am, I'm all plugged in and my kids call my mom Moo as an MOO love. And so it was Moo the Savior, Moo. So I am all plugged in on, my mom is like my person, she's my kid's person. So I'm like all in on that safe. So. Aw.
[00:45:33] Mallory Lee: That's amazing. Okay. For myself, I think I'm going to give a shout out to my chair.
[00:45:40] Mallory Lee: I know this is so strange,
[00:45:42] Rachel Johnson: love,
[00:45:43] Mallory Lee: and it's, it's a very different, like left turn that we're taking here. This way's left, so I need a new chair, and I kept getting those. Blasted Instagram ads for things, and I was getting ads for this ball chair, like this balloon ball chair, and it's just so chic and it looked so pretty.
[00:46:03] Mallory Lee: And so I pulled the trigger to try it out and I love it. I love sitting on this ball and I feel like it's good because I can sort of like move around a little bit, you know? But I'm not falling over. It's for your core, I guess. Yeah. And uh. And a lot of people ask me questions about it. It's a great conversation starter.
[00:46:26] Mallory Lee: And so I've decided that it's my favorite thing this week. Should I show it up? Can I show it?
[00:46:32] Shannon Curran: Yeah, you, you
[00:46:33] Rachel Johnson: should. Excuse
[00:46:33] Shannon Curran: me, Vanna White. Get up please.
[00:46:35] Mallory Lee: Alright.
[00:46:38] Rachel Johnson: Ooh,
[00:46:39] here,
[00:46:40] Shannon Curran: love.
[00:46:41] Mallory Lee: That's amazing. Now you got, you got the brown. Yeah, I like it. And so on the bottom. On the bottom, it's flat and it's got like a little bit of weight to it so that you don't fall over. And uh, it's fabulous. I like it a lot.
[00:46:55] Rachel Johnson: No, not like the material as you're sitting there and you feel like you're gonna fall over.
[00:46:59] Rachel Johnson: Ptsd,
[00:46:59] Shannon Curran: T PTSD T about the maternity fall. Did
[00:47:02] Rachel Johnson: you think about that? You picked it up. Okay. Well, I was not the only one. Okay.
[00:47:06] Shannon Curran: My eyes started twitching. I'm like, oh no. Uh oh. Uh, I'm like way too freshly postpartum. I can't think about it. I can't think about it. I'm getting the chills. All right. Go Rachel. Your turn.
[00:47:13] Shannon Curran: Your turn.
[00:47:14] Rachel Johnson: Okay, my Save of the Week is going to be meal planning. Yes. So as I mentioned, I should probably have like my little list, but I have a, as I mentioned earlier, I have two all star cheerleaders. We're in the gym four days a week, and. This allow one side of my little list, I got this thing on Amazon.
[00:47:31] Rachel Johnson: Cool. It has a shopping list on one side of the week, and then tears off. And then on the other side, it has all of our meals for the week. And what I do is I take a picture of it and then I can send that to my husband and so he can. Then I, then all of those are linked to the Pinterest, um, links that we're having
[00:47:52] Mallory Lee: Pinterest love.
[00:47:53] Mallory Lee: Oh, nice.
[00:47:54] Rachel Johnson: So if there's recipes, um, otherwise it's like, you know, like quesadilla is and or grilled cheese and he can pm manage those. Those are like the dad friendly meals. But if it requires a recipe, there's usually a Pinterest link that I can send him. So we can start dinner, but meal planning is our like ride or die thing.
[00:48:12] Rachel Johnson: I. The other side of the list is how I shop. So like if it goes on the, on the left side, then the right side, all of the, the ingredients go on it. And then I shop for the, then I shop for the ingredients. And it also has saved us hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of dollars of not walking around the grocery store endlessly.
[00:48:31] Rachel Johnson: That is my safe
[00:48:33] Shannon Curran: and not letting things go bad. 'cause you bought them and then never used them. Yeah.
[00:48:36] Mallory Lee: No. Yeah, yeah. I'm inspired I Me too. Let's be clear. I'm not gonna start the meal planning, but I wish I would and I aspire to be like you, Rachel.
[00:48:49] Shannon Curran: Me too. Maybe in 12 years when I have a 12-year-old
[00:48:51] Rachel Johnson: daughter, by the way, it's all finally by way.
[00:48:52] Rachel Johnson: I do. She, Mallory and I do live really close together and I do see her at Kroger sometimes.
[00:48:58] Mallory Lee: That's so jealous. So true.
[00:49:00] Rachel Johnson: It's so true.
[00:49:01] Mallory Lee: Yeah. Yeah. It's been multiple times that I've seen you at Kroger and I feel like that's how we kept up with like how many kids we had and our families and, and all the things over the years.
[00:49:11] Mallory Lee: So this was so special. I appreciate you coming and talking to us. Um,
[00:49:16] Rachel Johnson: thank you for having
[00:49:16] Mallory Lee: me. You know, we're, we're very early on in this adventure and yes, it's just great to be able to talk to women who have such cool things to say right off the bat. So thank you. Love
[00:49:26] it.
[00:49:26] Rachel Johnson: Thank you for having me, and I'd love to come back and.
[00:49:29] Rachel Johnson: Maybe share some other cool things like later on. Yeah, I'm, this podcast is gonna blow up and, um, you, you both are so fun and, um, I can't wait to see where it goes.
[00:49:40] Shannon Curran: Thanks for listening to Full Stack Moms.
[00:49:43] Mallory Lee: We'll be back with more episodes that help you see you're not crazy and you're not alone. If we might be your people, please make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:49:53] Shannon Curran: If you go back, like if you leave. And when you go to come back, it'll tell you the name of the microphone you're using. Using, yeah. All right. No problem. I know, I realized like 10 minutes into the last one we did that. I didn't have my microphone. I was like, Shannon, what's going on? Like my brain is like half working.
[00:50:12] Shannon Curran: Ugh. Rachel, it's so nice to meet you. I feel it's so, but I
[00:50:17] Rachel Johnson: didn't, I, I think, yeah, I think we are somehow, um, I dunno.
[00:50:24] Shannon Curran: Internet friends. I know.
[00:50:25] Rachel Johnson: Yes. I've known Mal for years and years and years. Love that.
[00:50:31] Shannon Curran: One of the lucky ones.
[00:50:33] Mallory Lee: Oh my goodness.
[00:50:34] Rachel Johnson: Yeah.
[00:50:34] Mallory Lee: How many
[00:50:35] Rachel Johnson: years? Um, since et so
[00:50:41] Mallory Lee: I know. 2012. 2012.
[00:50:46] Rachel Johnson: Wow.
[00:50:46] Mallory Lee: Oh my gosh.
[00:50:48] Rachel Johnson: What a time since I was sitting on the fourth floor.
[00:50:48] Shannon Curran: That's when I met my husband.