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Dentists, Puns, and Money is a podcast focused on two things: The financial topics relevant to dentists leaving clinical practice and the stories and lessons of dentists who have already done so.
1. The stories of dentists who have transitioned from full-time clinical dentistry.
2. The financial topics that are relevant for dentists making that transition.
If you’re a dentist thinking about your exit from clinical, and you’d like to learn from the experiences of other dentists who have made that transition, be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast app.
Host Shawn Terrell also dives deep into the many financial components of exiting dentistry, including tax reduction strategies and how to live off your assets.
And, we try to keep it light by mixing in a bad joke… or two.
Please note: Dentists, Puns, and Money was previously known as The Practice Growth Podcast until March 2022.
Keywords: dentists, dentistry, clinical dentistry, yoga, practice, people, stress, meditation, burnout, dental, dental office, decision, started, years, financial, mindset, life, josie, sell, work.
Welcome to dentists, puns and money. I'm your host Shawn Terrell and my guest in today's episode is Dr. Josie Dovidio. Mismanaged stress coupled with physical pain forced Dr. Josie to sell her practice and exit clinical dentistry before she reached the age of 50. She turned to yoga and meditation to get healthy again. And it helps so much that she started the business helping other dentists use yoga to deal with the rigors of practice. In the process. Dr. Josie became a registered yoga teacher and certified wellness consultant. In our conversation we dive into how yoga can help dentists was much more. As a reminder, our affiliated firm dentist Exit Planning helps dentists nearing clinical retirement, reduce their lifetime tax bill and replace their practice income so they don't have to compromise on the lifestyle they love. If you are interested in financial guidance on your exit from dentistry, schedule an initial consultation with us on our website which is dentist exit.com. And with that introduction I hope you enjoy my conversation with Dr. Josie Dovidio. All right Dr. Josie Dovidio… Welcome to dentists pawns and money. I am excited to hear your story. Thank you for joining us.
Thank you so much for having me, Shawn. I'm excited to be here. Awesome.
I like to start with a little bit of background for the audience so they know who you are, where you came from, and kind of what your career arc and Dentistry has been to this point. Could you start by just sharing a little bit about the Reader's Digest version of your story? Yeah, so
I actually got into the dental field when I was in high school. I was looking for a part time job that paid more and then McDonald's. So I went to the job board my high school and there were dental offices hiring for some part time work. So I got a job there at a local dental office and they taught me a bunch of things and I liked the atmosphere. I you know, growing up, I loved going to the dentist. I never had an aversion to that. And so over the years I worked in a few different offices. The dentist taught me to do a lot of things. I became a dental assistant. And then, you know, at some point, I was in college, one of my bosses said You know, you pretty much know how to do everything in a dental office. You just need to go to dental school now to learn how to do the procedures. And I'm like, You know what, I think I'm going to do that you know fast forward. I graduated from dental school, I did a two year residency. And then in my second year I started my dental practice from scratch, renting space from another dentist and a private practice. And then I practiced for 22 years until I decided that I was not managing my stress. Well, well, to be fair, my body decided that I was not managing my stress well, and I made a very difficult decision to sell my practice and take a
break. How did that manifest itself? You said your body kind of decided you were done with clinical dentistry and what were some of the signs and symptoms that led you to believe that
oh, you know, for years, I had ignored the telltale signs of neck pain, back pain, shoulder pain. Everybody has those in dentistry and we kind of chalk it up to just part of the gig. And in some ways it is but it really doesn't have to be that bad. And then as I was ignoring that long enough there were other stress related issues that were manifesting predominantly high cortisol levels, which is our stress hormone. And of course, I managed to ignore that long enough to and it got to the point where I was starting to lose hair. I wasn't sleeping well. I wasn't really digesting my food. So I would go and eat lunch and you know, come back looking like I was about to give birth. I mean, it was a really weird experience. I wouldn't get so bloated, you know hindsight being 2020 Now, we know that is a physical manifestation of mismanaged stress and it can lead to a whole host of other problems, you know, even leading up to death for some people. So, for a lot of signs, I was just really good at ignoring them.
So you practiced clinical dentistry for I think you said 22 years, how much of that 22 years was a lot like what you just described and how you were living day to day while you were practicing?
Oh, that's a good question. I mean, I think the mental stress started relatively early on, right I mean, I think dental school makes us type A people neurotic to a certain extent to begin with, right? We're working in millimeters and half a million years and quarter millimeters, but then once I graduated, you know, everyone's excited to start practicing and to see patients and putting to use all this knowledge. And so I would say maybe after four or five years in I can remember starting to have mental stress. That again, I wasn't probably dealing with well, and what that looks like is what I think it looks like for a lot of people which would be like, you know, it's been a rough day. I think a martini would be nice to help calm the stress, right? Or I think whole pan of brownies sounds good. I mean, just making not the healthiest choices, but thinking that we're like taking the edge off.
And maybe even from there like a lot of people are looking for not just those ways to solve the problem that you mentioned, but like buy another practice or take another CEE class, just different ways to try to figure out a better way to do dentistry. What led you eventually to yoga and how what was the initial response was that as you were trying to find different solutions to deal with the stress and the demands of practicing?
No, I get asked that question a lot. I don't even remember the first yoga class I took. I mean, I've been doing yoga for such a long time. Like, you know, there's a lot of people who have like these yoga epiphanies like I can remember the first time I took this yoga class and it changed my life. I wouldn't say my story was like that. I think it was just like, oh, this is cool. I'm going to try this and it felt good. And so I would go periodically. Wasn't until of course years later that I learned why it felt good and how good it actually is for our bodies or our mental health. And you know, the science behind that. And so it's been an integral part of my healing process, most selling of my practice, but if I would have understood back then what I understand now, it could have really helped save me a lot of stress and agony throughout my career.
So just to clarify sort of the timeline you had discovered, and we're using or doing yoga on some level before you left clinical dentistry, but you didn't really understand how to embrace the full benefits of it in a way that sort of save you from selling your practice.
That is absolutely correct. Yeah, I just knew that if I went once in a while it felt good. Now and because my mindset was, well, I'm in dentistry, and my practice is very busy. So of course, my body hurts. Like I just accepted that as normal and natural. And so I would go to yoga, you know, maybe once or twice a week, and that was more for like, you know, we'll go to the gym. I would go to the gym sometimes and sometimes I would go to yoga class, but I wasn't really tapping into the full potential and full benefit of what that particular mode of let's say exercise or body awareness, body maintenance, can really do for people who have high stress jobs, like dentists
are a big tipping point or an inflection point where you decided that you had to get out for your health of clinical dentistry or was it more a case of sort of death, figuratively speaking by 1000 paper cuts?
I mean, it was getting progressively worse in terms of my stress and burnout. Right and I had been burned out a few times in my career. I think there's a statistic, you know, I don't remember exactly if it's the ATA but there is a statistic that you know, 84% of dentists experienced burnout in their careers. A lot of those people experienced it multiple times. And I was one of those multiple time burnout people and so I get really burnout and then maybe I would go vacation or change something in my practice that would sort of alleviate, or take the edge off, but not really solve my problem. And so towards the end when I had to make this decision, I had really gotten to the point where even though my practice was successful, and they'll all things on paper, were going well, I hated my patients. Starting to hate my staff. I hated that I had to get up and go do this job. Am I do I was the kind of person who loved dentistry for many, many years. So it just goes to show how the mental toll that the stress can take where it takes something that you are enjoying, you're good at that you're financially successful doing, but just makes it look really ugly to you.
How did you eventually come to that decision? Because it wasn't just stopping practicing clinical dentistry for a period of time. I mean, you own the practice. So the decision to sell one and everyone knows how hard it is to build a successful one to begin with. It's not something that I'm guessing you took lightly. How did you eventually come to that decision? And what were some of the factors as much as you're willing to share that went into you making the final decision to walk away?
Sure, so did not have it in my mind to sell my practice. I started to do all the traditional things people do like okay, well let me drop some PPO plans that will reduce my volume of patients maybe make work easier. And I did that and it didn't really reduce my volume. It made me more profitable because the fee schedules were better, but it didn't really reduce my volume. Then it's like okay, well, maybe I should get an associate. Right. So I'm doing like the typical things that just do. And my associate is someone I had been mentoring about a decade, right. It was a college student I had met when I was volunteering at a free clinic and her and I hit it off and she wanted to go to dental school site. I spent a lot of time mentoring her. And when she graduated from dental school, you know, she was working elsewhere. But I said, Well, you know what, I'm looking for an associate now. So if you want to come work with me, let's make it happen. So we did that. And in some ways, it did help. But in other ways it didn't, right, because now there's a new doctor to manage and all the intricacies of adding that level of expansion to your practice. So it was still, you know, a lot of band aids that weren't really solving the problem. And so then one day, my associate came to me and she said, You know what, I've worked in a few other offices, and I'd really like to talk to you about becoming a partner and buying into the practice. And my, my thought was, this just kind of came out of my mouth like I again, I wasn't looking to sell. I was just looking to make my life a little bit easier said I didn't hate it so much. So I looked at her and I said, You know what, I'm already married at home. I don't want to be married at work till now. But if you want to buy the whole practice, I'll sell it to you that came out of my mouth and I was like, What am I just say? Because again, this is not on the radar at all. And so we started having a conversation of what that might look like. And all of a sudden, for me, it was like, Okay, this sale needs to happen right away. Like it couldn't happen fast enough. So I sold it to her with the you know, the conversation was well it takes some time off, get your health in order feel better, and when you're ready to come back, there's always a spot for you like she wanted to work together. It was lovely. Then, you know, fast forward, the pandemic happened and the industry changed. And I use that time off not just to work on myself personally but to reevaluate what it is that I really wanted. Like, I haven't gone back to clinical dentistry just yet. But I do have some opportunities to do that, that I'm exploring. So yeah, I don't know if I answered your original question. I went off on a tangent.
Oh, you did. I'm just I'm curious because as much as you're willing to share I mean, this is my experience in being a financial advisor working with dentists is that they have an expectation about the income they're going to produce from practicing dentistry on an ongoing basis. And a lot of times they build a life and a lifestyle around that expectation. And just all things being equal, that lifestyle tends to be a little bit better than the average American maybe live. So what I'm getting at is how much was it a financial consideration as much as you're willing to share? And, you know, you've probably either got some decisions to make about how you're going to handle things moving forward that way, if you're not going to be earning a dentist's owners level of income for the next 20 years, like maybe you thought you would,
yeah, I mean, that's an excellent point because when you have a practice that you consider successful, like golden handcuffs, and that's what kept me practicing for a long time, even though I wasn't feeling great. And so, and I was young to make this decision, by the way, right? I wasn't even 50 years old. I was like, I don't know. 48 or something. I'll have to do the math. Yeah, the thing I had going for me is that I had options because my husband has a nice job. And I was making good money, and we were being financially prudent and good stewards of that money and financially planning well, so we could afford for me to make that decision. Because even though I had a saleable asset, and I sold my practice at the height of the market, because any other changes I was going to make to the practice to suit stress level, were going to actually bring down the value, right because I write all the things to make it easier already. And so I was in a financial position to make that decision, but a lot of dentists are not a lot of dentists are not and so a lot of the work I'm doing now is to help dentists manage their stress better, but also to point them in the direction of you need to get your financial ducks in a row. So that God forbid you have to make a hard decision like that. You can do so Now does that mean I you know, we lived the exact lifestyle that we had when we were both working? Not necessarily. I mean, it didn't change drastically because like I said, we are planning Well, for a lot of people it would right if you go down 50% of your income that's going to make a big difference for people but who work and how the kind of lifestyle that we have, like you said they really need to be monitoring their financial health, as well as their physical health and mental health because you don't know what's going to happen
when so we know sort of how the story ends a little bit and that you found yoga and or you leaned in more to yoga and now work with dentists all over the country to help them learn how yoga can help them be a better dentist and a happier dentists do leave clinical dentistry with that expectation or maybe just talk about how you evolved into that from where you were three years ago or so when you left and sold your practice.
Sure, yeah, no, I had no plan. So my idea was I'm gonna sell this and I'm gonna like right off into the sunset and live happily ever after. And that's what a lot of dentists who are burned out think or feel right, like the source of the problem is the dental practice. And so if I get rid of the practice, get rid of all of my problems on this side of it. And what most life coaches wellness consultants, therapists will tell you, wherever you go, there you are. So whatever mindsets whatever thought processes whatever bad habits or lack of good habits got you into the stress mode, the overwhelm the burnout, dentistry, follow you into your next thing, right and so, initial plan was to do nothing. And then guess what I am very aggressive, very intense about doing nothing too. So I ended up you know, spending a lot of time in personal growth mode, weighing all of the physical doctor appointments, the mental doctor appointments and then I just decided you know what, I think I'm gonna get yoga teacher certified and my intention with that was not even a tea show that it was that I wanted to understand yoga better. So it was really again for like personal growth. And then as I was understanding why yoga makes me feel good and why this is helpful and been around for such a long time and why people are constantly talking about meditation and its benefits. Then I was like, Well, why isn't this like a thing for dentists? Why don't dentists know about this? Right? Because it would really help the dental industry. So that's how this evolved for me. I did not really set out to do any of it. But as I left clinical dentistry, and I was starting to share my story, predominantly on Facebook, right, some dental Facebook groups, I was trying to tell people like, Hey, you're stressed out, you should try this. You should do that. Then people would start DMing me sharing their stories and telling me about their experience, which was at least similar to mine. And so all of a sudden I was spending a bulk of my week that I'm supposedly not working into burned out dentists. And so it ended up evolving because I could see that there was a need for this kind of information to get out and to get out in a maybe efficient concise way and that people were thirsty for it. Why did this so I ended up getting some additional training so that I could figure out how to best help the dental community. Now, you know, I'm a certified wellness consultant. I'm a registered yoga teacher, and I'm a dentist who has lived the life of a burnt out dentists and so I take people through program and we do group coaching and one on one coaching and I'm helping people from getting to the point that I got to and had to sell, right because people are understanding that without change. In mindset. And without the care for you know, this is the only body you're ever going to have. Doesn't matter what you put it out of dentistry to do. You know, it's not going to matter if you're not addressing these other things.
So I am a I'm a yoga novice. I have never tried it. I've tried and continue to try meditation on a somewhat regular basis. I give you that backdrop and the context for question, which is how someone has never tried yoga before. How can yoga help you? What are the benefits of it?
So make the long story short, most dentists that are stressed out, they're stuck in this sympathetic response. It's an odd autonomic nervous system. pathway, which are just like you know, big words to mean. We're in fight or flight mode. All the time. Your nervous system thinks you're being chased by a lion all the time, so it's just always stressed out and dangerous. Don't do a very good job. of shutting that down and slipping into the parasympathetic response, the rest and digest mode. So the main way that yoga and meditation help is to calm the nervous system down and to allow your body time and space to slip into this calmer state. And it is hard for a lot of people, you know, especially if they've never done it before because it is a slower moving pace than we're used to moving at and it's a slower pace than our culture says is good because we live in a hustle culture. Go go go Do do do produce, produce produce. And so we get stuck in that mode. And so the slower moving yoga, right, because there's a lot of yoga styles. There's like faster yoga like vinyasa yoga, there's like power yoga, where basically you're just you know, doing high intensity interval training with a few yoga poses thrown in. Those are not the things that I'm talking about. I'm talking about traditional Hatha Yoga, yin yoga, restorative yoga, so there are yoga styles that are slower with the intention of tapping into that rest and digest mode. In the body to calm down because your body is able to have space to restore itself. And when you do go back to work, you can actually be more efficient, more productive and enjoying the work more
as what you teach specific to dentists or like how much of it as general yoga but like your ability to communicate it as a dentist probably resonates better with dentists who are receiving that information because you know exactly what it's like to be a stressed out dentist.
Right? Yeah, I would say is predominantly the second one, meaning I am teaching yogic concepts, mindset concepts, meditation, you know, concepts guiding people through these things. I also because my body has done the work that their body does, I understand how to modify certain yoga poses for dentists to get the benefit, right. So, for example, predominantly dentists are holding instruments with both hands and their arms are internally rotating in the shoulder socket. And so a lot of poses, yoga poses that require that able to modify so that maybe we're activating more of an external rotation, right, getting our musculoskeletal imbalances, if you will some attention so that they can relieve some of the aches and pains of dentistry.
Do you work with dentists you're located in in California? Do you have geographic limitations or what's sort of the best way that you can help someone with location being or not being inhibited?
I predominantly do a virtual yoga classes and online offering that I offer to my Facebook group and Instagram following which is at you know, yoga for dentists. And so I create these classes and I'm trying to expand my offering. It's just sort of hard because I'm working with a lot of clients and that's my first priority right the one on one stuff, but I do offer virtual classes that way. I was teaching locally and I did have some dental colleagues come to those classes. And that was super cool. But it was also a little complicated with the pandemic and the masking and then not masking and all of that and that just became a little challenging. So I stopped doing live in person yoga, but I am asked to go to various dental meetings and teach yoga live. I have that coming up. For example, next month, I'm going to be teaching yoga for dentists in Las Vegas. So that's going to be a cool event and I'll get to meet a lot of my followers live that way. Yeah, that
just occurred to me. There's no shortage of dental conferences, ongoing any given day or week. So that's, that'd be a really good opportunity to do it live as well. So the response been with some of the feedback you've received from dentists that you've worked with, and you know, what's the transformation been for some of your clients?
Well, the if we're talking about my signature program, which is the crown of wellness program, the transformation in my clients has been like I couldn't have predicted it, right. Because again, I didn't set out to do it. It was just kind of like, Hey, here's what I'm learning. Here's what I've learned. Here's what you should do. And so many of these clients come in and this is like their last ditch effort. Like if this doesn't help me, I'm selling it. Okay, like I have no skin in the game if people choose to sell their practice or not, right. I mean, that's what I did. So they're coming in there, you know, usually by like the second or third week of working together, they're understanding their life in a different way. And they're starting to make changes and have relief. Usually by the time they're done with their program. They just have a completely new outlook, right? I'm not trying to paint the picture that it's like all like unicorns and rainbows when they're done. Because life and There are certain mindsets and perspectives you really need to take if you want to do a good job, and if you want to have longevity in this career, because there is more to life than dentistry, and a lot of people lose sight of that.
I had to laugh. I think in the bio that you filled out for me and the intake form for the podcast, you described yourself as the type of dentists that would go on vacation and read journals about dentistry for fun while you're on vacation, and I think that would resonate with a lot of people probably listening and resonate with me because that's kind of the type of financial advisory on that it's really hard to turn off sometimes. And
it is hard it's hard because we invest so much time and training and being a dentist is really a calling for people. You know, it's not like you just devote so much of your time and you're really caring for people, but sometimes we care so much about certain things and not enough about other things and it's that imbalance that leads to a lot of stress and burnout. So it's just also a matter of recalibrating and reminding yourself of what is meaningful in your life outside of dentistry, and investing enough time effort, you know, even money into just making sure those things are in order as well.
What's the future hold for you? I know you can't completely dictate what it's going to be but you thought of the idea that since you've been clinically retired for three and a half years and gone deeper into yoga, you maybe see a path back to clinical dentistry on some level. Will you continue the yoga for dentists sort of side hustle if you could call it that no matter what are what are your thoughts there?
Yeah, so I mentioned I have an opportunity to go back and do some clinical dentistry. I know my former practice would take me back in a second. I don't know that I need to revisit that. At this point. I feel like I accomplished everything I wanted to accomplish there. I don't know how helpful it would be to have me there. So that's something that's still open for me but I haven't made any decisions about I also have another opportunity to go help out a clinic that I am fond of and like to support and that's a little bit less structured in terms of they don't need me there full time and there's certain parameters that I would work within and that feels a better way to give back to my patients and the dental community and helping out in that way. So I'm exploring all of those things.
And, you know, it's odd because when I made the decision to sell it, I mean, like I ugly cried about it for like weeks on end because it was so much a part of my identity and who I was. And there are certain things that I miss the things that I thought I would miss, I don't really miss. And so, you know, my new mindset if I went back to clinical slash when I go back to clinical, I think I'm gonna appreciate it so much more, because my mindset is different. So, the odd thing is I'm considering these opportunities and my husband's like, when are you going to have time to go back and do clinical dentistry because I am so busy with my clients now. And so I don't know what the long term future holds for me. Here's what I do know, as someone who used to have to plan everything, you know, I wanted to know what was happening. Not just six months in advance, but like a year and had all these like plans and goals and whatever is I have learned to appreciate that it's okay to let these naturally evolve. Right. And again, I'm in a financial position where I can do that, right because, you know, they say money doesn't buy happiness or money doesn't buy this or that but what money does buy is the ability to make certain choices without extra stress. And so I'm assuming just by the nature of your podcasts that you have dentists who listen who are inclined to care about money, and so I my encouragement to them, the to definitely get your financial house in order, you know, and that doesn't mean like for example, some of you listening are like but I have so much debt, I can't get my financial house in order. Well, yes, you can. You can have a plan for that you can have an investment plan, a retirement plan. You know, I know so many dentists who are what I would call mid career dentists and they don't have a retirement plan. And it's like, well, you know, time goes by fast you need to be paying attention to that stuff, you know, yesterday. So, so anyway, that's the the long winded answer to say I don't know what the future holds. I am thankful to be in a financial position where I'm comfortably able to allow things to evolve, naturally,
stuff start to wrap up here. Is there anything that we haven't hit on directly that you think would be important to mention or communicate to the audience?
I think the number one thing people say to me is you know what, I'm intrigued by the idea of yoga and meditation, but I'm not flexible enough to do yoga and I can't sit still have to meditate. And so what I want to say to that is, you don't have to be flexible to do yoga, you do yoga, to become flexible over time. You don't have to be able to sit still to meditate. There's different forms of meditation, you can do a walking meditation, you can do a visual meditation, where you watch something on a screen, right? You can. There's so many different forms of meditation, but also the same concept. You practice meditation so that you can learn how to sit still kind of like saying I want to play tennis I don't know how to play tennis so I'm just not going to do it. Well, you you go to any take tennis lessons to learn right? So that's the one of the big things that I hear about right people drop into my DMs with this like I want to do it but I don't think I can well, you can do you know if you can go to dental school, and you can run a practice. You can learn how to do yoga and learn how to
sit still. And I haven't tried yoga. Now I'm a little bit intrigued by it. But I have tried meditation, as I mentioned at a really basic level. And it's funny because I pay for this app that I use, and I pretty much use the same one lesson like every time and it's just 1010 Deep breaths in a row. Point being what I've found has helped me is just start really, really small and really lower the bar. I think for someone like me and type A personality as well and probably like a lot of dentists listening you don't have to be like really good at it when you first start just really lower. The bar. Right. And any sort of progress is good progress, I think and I'm not trained in this stuff, but that's just my world experience.
Yeah, absolutely progress over perfection. Even if you can just breathe with your eyes closed or even with a soft, gentle gaze if your eyes closed it makes you uncomfortable, right? Even if you do it for one minute. That's basically meditation. It's just allowing your brain some time to slow down and catch up.
And on a light note, the name of the podcast is dentists, ponds and money. Do you have a delete? Watch with the audience? No,
I usually use the ponds of like, you know dentistry is in grind. That's the font that I use on my social media posts. You know, dentistry can be a grind, but there are ways to get more pleasant.
For anyone listening that would like to learn more about your dentists and what your offerings and healthcare tips are. What's the best way to find more information Josie
typically, like I mentioned hanging out on Facebook, at yoga for dentists I have a private Facebook group. If you're a dentist you're welcome to join us there we have a lot of like minded people, people who are seeking to just live well right live optimally doing this. I do have a demo account, which is also at yoga for dentists. You can reach me through email which is Josie at yoga for dentists.net. And you can also jump on my newsletter list which to be transparent. I'm not awesome about putting out emails consistently because again, I'm in this new go with the flow mode. So you're not going to get bombarded with a bunch of emails. But periodically if I send you an emails, it's going to be something good, right? I'm not trying to clog up your inbox, but I am offering an opt into that and it's through crown of wellness.com forward slash lower back yoga. What you'll get is a like PDF of a simple yoga routine that you can do at home to give your lower back some metric
that's crown of wellness.com forward slash lower back yoga. We will link that in the show notes. That is Dr. Josie de video founder of yoga for dentists and certified wellness instructor. Dr. Josie, thank you for sharing your story, your expertise and for being our guest today on dentists puns and money.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thanks for sending in following along.
Are you a dentist nearing your retirement from clinical or have you already hung up your handpiece? Would you like to learn more about ways to reduce your taxes j&j in retirement? Our affiliated firm dentist Exit Planning might be able to help you with those two things. Schedule an initial consultation with us on our website. Our web address is dentist exit.com There's no obligation for your initial consultation. Again, schedule that initial consultation at dentist exit.com As for our disclosure, dentist, Exit Planning and Terrell advisors is a registered investment advisor. The information presented should not be interpreted or construed as investment, legal tax financial planning or wealth management advice. It does not substitute for personalized investment or financial planning from dentist Exit Planning or Terrell advisors. This podcast conveys the views and opinions of Shawn Terrell and his guests and the information herein should not be considered a solicitation to engage in a particular investment or financial planning strategy. information presented is for educational purposes only and past performance is not indicative of future