What comes to your mind when you think about the Holy Spirit?
Depending on your background, maybe the Holy Spirit feels ambiguous or confusing. Or maybe you feel uncertain about this third Person of the Trinity. On this episode, our friend Max Lucado, bestselling author, teaches us about the role of the Holy Spirit. Learn about the purpose and power of the Holy Spirit and what that means practically for the struggles you are facing today.
For over 25 years Proverbs 31 Ministries' mission has been to intersect God's Word in the real, hard places we all struggle with. That's why we started this podcast. Every episode will feature a variety of teachings from president Lysa TerKeurst, staff members or friends of the ministry who can teach you something valuable from their vantage point. We hope that regardless of your age, background or stage of life, it's something you look forward to listening to each month!
Kaley Olson:
Well, hi friends. Thanks for joining us for another episode of The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast, where we share biblical Truth for any girl in any season. I'm your host, Kaley Olson and I'm here with my friend and co-host in the flesh, Kendra LeGrand.
Kendra LeGrand:
In the flesh. Hey, everybody. So excited to be here.
Kaley Olson:
Kendra, you're on the Ministry Studies Team …
Kendra LeGrand:
I am.
Kaley Olson:
... for Proverbs 31, which means that you do Online Bible Studies and First 5.
Kendra LeGrand:
Yes.
Kaley Olson:
And a lot of other things like guest co-host on the podcast when we need …
Kendra LeGrand:
Which is fun.
Kaley Olson:
... need you.
Kendra LeGrand:
Yes.
Kaley Olson:
Yes. But
Kendra LeGrand, today we are recording, and it is the tail end of August. That's when we're recording. But when you're hearing this episode, it's October.
Kendra LeGrand:
Right.
Kaley Olson:
And I'm assuming that it is going to be sweater weather by the time this episode releases.
Kendra LeGrand:
Ooh, sweater weather.
Kaley Olson:
And so, can we just pause and daydream about fall?
Kendra LeGrand:
Oh, absolutely.
Kaley Olson:
[inaudible 00:00:59] going to be really basic and talk about our favorite things for fall. So, what are some of your favorite things about fall?
Kendra LeGrand:
OK. Number one would be the leaves changing. So, if you're somewhere where seasons aren't really a thing, just picture green leaves going to orange and yellow and reds, and bright and vibrant — beautiful.
Kaley Olson:
Yes.
Kendra LeGrand:
OK. Second thing, crisp air. I love when you walk outside and it is just a little bit cold, enough for a sweater, but not enough where you are lugging a coat and boots through snow.
Kaley Olson:
I agree. I don't do well in weather under 40 degrees and all of our listeners and people watching from up north are thinking …
Kendra LeGrand:
Probably like, "Oh, brother."
Kaley Olson:
... that I'm a weakling. But you know what? That's OK. I'm a Southern gal at heart and …
Kendra LeGrand:
That's right.
Kaley Olson:
... that's about the best I can do.
Kendra LeGrand:
That's right. And then another thing I love about fall is when a lot of things start over like school, a new fresh school year, maybe some Bible studies start. And that's exactly what we have here.
Kaley Olson:
Did you like this shameless plug? Just —
Kendra LeGrand:
I know.
Kaley Olson:
But I loved it.
Kendra LeGrand:
I love starting something new.
Kaley Olson:
This book is very fall colored too.
Kendra LeGrand:
It is.
Kaley Olson:
And it's ... Do you want to tell them what the study is?
Kendra LeGrand:
Yes. It's our next Online Bible Study.
Kaley Olson:
Yes.
Kendra LeGrand:
It begins in November, but it's called Help Is Here: Finding Fresh Strength in Purpose, in the Power of the Holy Spirit by Max Lucado.
Kaley Olson:
I just realized that we're recording this on video and our friends on audio need to know that we just held book covers up.
Kendra LeGrand:
We did.
Kaley Olson:
And I commented on how the book cover looked. It's like a nice, fall, sunrise or sunset.
Kendra LeGrand:
Very fally.
Kaley Olson:
But yes, our next study, Help Is Here by Max Lucado. If you want to stop listening right now and sign up for the study, I would not look down upon you for doing that.
Kendra LeGrand:
Not at all.
Kaley Olson:
Because it's going to be a great study. And so, if you want to sign up, the study is absolutely free. There's a link in our show notes at proverbs31.org/study, where you can sign up for free. And if you want to purchase the book, all you have to do is go to P31bookstore.com. And we've got the book for you there.
Kendra LeGrand:
Yeah.
Kaley Olson:
Grab your copy and study with us.
Kendra LeGrand:
We like to make it easy around here, but this is your official invite.
Kaley Olson:
It does. And when does the study start?
Kendra LeGrand:
November 14. So, it'll be even more fally for those of us that like fall.
Kaley Olson:
Yes. You can do the study and drink your pumpkin spice latte along with it. Well, we need to transition into our conversation with Max.
Kendra LeGrand:
Yes.
Kaley Olson:
And so, I'm excited for our listeners to hear it. So, let's jump on in. Kendra.
Kendra LeGrand:
Hey, Kaley.
Kaley Olson:
I'm so excited because we're here, on the other side of the screen is our friend, Max Lucado.
Max, welcome to The Proverbs 31 Ministry Podcast.
Max Lucado:
You are very kind. Thank you for letting me be a part of it.
Kaley Olson:
Of course. Well, we know, Max, you are no stranger to the podcast, because you've been on several times before, and to Proverbs you're really like an extension of family around here. And so, he really is, really, like the uncle of Proverbs 31. Oh yes. That's a good title, Max. You might want to add that to your resume. Yeah.
Max Lucado:
Call me uncle.
Kaley Olson:
Anyways. So today Max, you're here to give us a message from your new book, Help Is Here. And what you're going to talk to us today about is how the Holy Spirit is the forgotten gift of God. And when I heard what you were going to talk about, I got really excited because
Kendra and I know this isn't a subject that's really covered right enough, I think in the Christian world. And so, we're excited to hear what you have to … and you can take it away.
Max Lucado:
Well, thank you. Thank you. Most of my work on the book, Help Is Here took place during the pandemic. I remember when I began PR working on the book, those phrases like, “shelter in place and social distancing and flattened the curve.” They were unheard of. Now they're common lingo. Now, I'm really grateful that the worst of the pandemic has passed. And as we make a list of what we've learned in it, I want to add one observation that needs to be included in the history books. We learned that we do not know how to pray.
I know this to be true because we created a virtual prayer page. And each day I posted an online message of hope and an open invitation, just post your prayers and we will pray for you, or post your prayer needs and we'll pray with you. Well, the page was flooded with requests from Connecticut to Cambodia. They came hundreds of thousands of statements, like, "Pray that I get some work, pray that I get along with my family, ask God to help me sleep, pray that I can get a job." But the most common request was the most heartfelt, heartfelt one. And that is, people just didn't know what to say. They would say things like, "I'm at a loss for words, or can you just mention my name? I want to pray, but I can't." Or, "Most of the time when I pray, I just cry or I pray, but the words don't seem to match the need, or all I can do is sigh."
And I realize that most of us just, we struggle sometimes to pray. We have groans, we have longings and these are the vernacular of pain, the chosen tongue of despair. And sometimes there are no words and sometimes the prayers just won't come forth. Now, some days we have nice poetic petitions, but stormy seasons generate mournful sounds of sadness and fear and dread. And yet one of the assignments, one of the works of the Holy Spirit is to take these raw appeals and present them into the presence before the presence of God, the Father, our prayers of wordless size are entrusted into the care of the Holy Spirit. It was the apostle Paul who taught us this. He said, “We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up into the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, we who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship through redemption of our bodies.” (Romans 8:22-23, NIV) “The Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit because the Spirit intercedes for God's people in accordance with the will of God. (NIV)” Romans 8, 26 and 27. I believe few passages reveal the tender heart of the Holy Spirit. As much as this one, we're accustomed to His mighty deeds. We've read about fire, falling on Peter or doors opening for Paul or Ezekiel seeing the dead bones rise, or Moses seeing the red sea open, yet of equal importance is this: The Spirit curates and translates the incoherent prayers of the weak until they are heard in the tribunal of heaven.
And we who have the first fruits of the Spirit, when we pray, we sometimes groan inwardly. That's, that's the word of the apostle Paul. In other words, we can have the presence of the Spirit, but that does not guarantee the absence of pain. Pain is a part of every life. And sometimes this pain leads to a feeling of weakness. Now, the word Paul uses here for weakness appears in other places in his epistles. And when he uses it elsewhere, it refers to physical affliction. He talks about his own weakness in Galatians 4:13, his own affliction. He talks about the illness of Timothy in 1 Timothy 5:23.
So, infirmity was in the forefront of Paul's mind and boy, sickness sure can sap our energy. I recall a time that I had a bout with atrial fibrillation. It left me battling a rapid heartbeat for months on in, and it literally drained my energy, drained my strength. The doctors were baffled, I was discouraged and I would often slip into our sanctuary in the middle of the day, in the middle of the week and kneel at our prayer alter and offer these unadorned petitions. Now, maybe your weakness is different. Maybe cancer has robbed the vigor of your youth. Maybe multiple sclerosis has siphoned the breath of your life. Maybe rheumatoid arthritis has stiffened your joints.
In these times, our prayers, well, they feel like groans. Or maybe your weakness emerges from a different source. Your weak from a crumbling marriage, from a business failure, from the rejection of a loved one. Maybe you're weak from unemployment. It is in times like this that the mind is just too troubled to articulate a prayer, where like Hezekiah. He confessed, "I moan like a dove. My eyes are weary with looking upward," Isaiah 38 verse 14. Or the Psalmist said, "I am feeble and utterly crushed; I groan in anguish of heart. All my longings lie open before you ... my sighing is not hidden from you." (Psalms 38:8-9, NIV) That's in Psalm 38.
You see, there's often a gap between what we want from life and what we get in life. And during such times during this weakness, we do not know what to pray for as we ought. Thank you, Apostle Paul, for this honest admission. If you, the apostle, the author of epistles did not always know how to formulate a prayer, then we take heart, for there are times we just don't know what to say. For what should the cancer patient request? Healing or heaven? For what should the father of the prodigal pray? Patience or another pig pen? For what should the persecuted prisoner ask, release from captivity or endurance in captivity? We don't know how to pray as we ought. And sometimes we wonder if our prayers are too sparse to even deserve an audience with God, or what if He turns us away?
Other people seem to pray with such boldness and resolve and assurance. We read of prayers that open prison doors for Peter, for silenced Mediterranean storms for Paul. And yet we can barely utter an Our Father. Does heaven hear the enfeebled prayers of a weary soul? Thanks to our heavenly helper, the answer is yes. The Spirit Himself intercedes for us. Now, to intercede is simply to stand in between. When a person, strong, takes up the cause of another person who is weak, intercession happens.
Intercession happened for my wife and me way back in 1983. My wife and I moved to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. We were the greenest of Gringos. We scarcely spoke Portuguese. We'd never lived outside of the country. And we had read books on cross-cultural adaptation, but no book can prepare you for that moment in which you step off an airplane without a return ticket. Our adjustment was really challenging because our possessions got stuck in customs.
Kaley Olson:
Wow.
Max Lucado:
We had a crate full of furniture and pictures and dishes and books and pots and pans, but we couldn't get to them. We had an apartment that we rented and yet the apartment was empty. The crate was full. All we needed was for the customs official to release it to us. And for several weeks, I made regular trips to the customs office. And in my broken Portuguese, I would say, "Could my crate be released?" And always the answer was the same, "No, Señor." And his explanation included words like delayed or needs approval or return tomorrow. I did not understand the problem. I did not understand the language enough to plead my case. So, I was at an impasse. And so, you can imagine the dread I felt every day when I went home and told my wife, "I just can't get our stuff out of customs."
Enters Keno, our next-door neighbor, his name, Keno, literally. His wife entered our apartment. They introduced themselves to us. We didn't have a place for them to sit. So, we stood as we sipped coffee. I told them why we had no furniture and Keno began to smile. He said, "I'll help you. I'm a lawyer." I said, "No, but I've been trying for a month." But he said, "No, I can do this." And could he ever? We walked into the customs office the next day and Keno approached the same official who had rebuffed me time and time again. Within moments, the two men were laughing. Keno pointed at me, motioned for me to step over. He put his arm around my shoulder. He said something to the official about being my neighbor. There may have been some exchange of money. I'm not sure. All I know is it worked. The crate was released. Our furniture was delivered and my wife was very, very happy.
Kaley Olson:
Oh.
Max Lucado:
Now, the reason I tell you that story is to give you an example of intercession. You see, Keno had everything I did not. He understood the culture. He knew the language. He could interpret the law. He perceived the problem. He knew how to persuade the customs official and he spoke on my behalf. He was our advocate.
This is the role of the Holy Spirit. In those moments when you feel you have nothing going for you, be assured you have an advocate. You have God's Spirit. As one writer said, "Even if people can do no more than sigh for redemption and then fall dumb as they sigh, God's Spirit already sighs within them and intercedes for them." Yeah, we don't know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit does. And does he ever... Unlike the customs official, your Father is more than willing to release blessings in abundance. You have the Spirit as your advocate and your Father as your provider. You may feel weak, but you've never been stronger. As a result, the greatest prayer warriors might very well appear to be the weakest ones, the convicted criminal in jail, the immigrant at the border, the forgotten child in the orphanage. The prayer shawl of depression is every bit as holy as the one made of linen.
Kaley Olson:
Wow.
Max Lucado:
I can remember visiting my mother when she was riddled with dementia and she would lie in her bed and just mumble. I believe our good God heard her. When the PTSD veteran longs for the courage to reenter society, is this not a heaven worthy prayer? Please hear this: Right now, at this moment, as I read these words and you hear them, as I share these words and you receive them, the Spirit of the living God is talking to the Trinity about you. The eternal, unending, ever creating Spirit is speaking on your behalf. “He [the Spirit] is making prayer out of our wordless sighs, our aching groans.” That's Romans 8:26 in The Message translation. The ESV translation says, He, “intercedes for us with groanings too deep with words." The Good News Bible says, “He [the Spirit] pleads with God for us in groans that words cannot express."
Do you not find this amazing? Help is here. The greatest force, the only true force in the universe is your ally, your spokesperson and your advocate. Paul goes on to say that He [the Spirit] keeps us present before God. That is why we can be so sure that every detail in our lives of love for God has worked into something good. What you pray in the night is heard in the light of your Father's throne. The book of Psalm says, "You keep track of all my sorrows. You have collected all my tears in your bottle. You have recorded each one in your book. (NIV)” Psalm 56 in verse 8.
So, I close by just saying, let this assurance add value to your time and prayer. The Apostle Paul did. I think if he were asked, how is a person supposed to walk in the Spirit? He would simply say, "Pray. Just pray. Know that when you speak, heaven hears you." His life was devoted to prayer. He prayed regularly, continuously and urged us to do the same. On all occasions he urged us, "Pray in the Spirit," Ephesians Chapter 6 in verse 18.
Yes, we have the Holy Spirit as our friend, as our guide as our teacher. But we also have the Holy Spirit as our advocate who takes our prayers that are sometimes nothing more than groans and turns them into pieces of poetry worthy of being heard in heaven. And that's the privilege we have as we associate with the Holy Spirit.
Kaley Olson:
That was so good. Well, I have a question for you, Max. But first I have to say, when you made a point kind of close to the end of your teaching, and you said, your mother, I think, struggled with dementia and she mumbled in the bed. And you knew that God heard even that, that ministered to my heart so much because my grandmother has Alzheimer's and I've watched her become this woman who loves Jesus and taught Sunday school and all of that. And she's just not who she was anymore. And I have wondered, why? Why after all of this time and being such a faithful person, is this what happens in the end?
And I know that I won't understand why, but it's almost felt like God has just ... I know that He hasn't been absent, but it just feels like He has whenever you wonder why someone keeps getting worse after years of just living life to the fullest. And hearing you say that God still understands because of the Holy Spirit, that just means the world to me to hear, and it means the world to me to hear that He still hears and understands her. But also, those moments that I didn't know what to pray and all I could really say was, why? Or ask Him, "God, please take this away." And knowing that even if He didn't, that I would still love Him and trust Him, but that just meant a lot. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Because I think that there might be other people out there who are walking through memory loss and wondering why too. And that was just such a moment of ministry. Wow.
Now, I have to shift. Now, I have to shift gears and ask a question, but I want to ask you a question as a pastor and a man who studies God's Word. We have a lot of different listeners represented here at Proverbs and some of them have grown up in the church and some of them might be new to the faith and don't really understand how the Holy Spirit is uniquely different from God, the Father, or God, the Son. So would you be willing to give us just a little …
Kendra LeGrand:
Glimpse.
Kaley Olson:
... overview, like a glimpse and explain what we, in Christianity, refer to the Trinity so we can better understand how the Holy Spirit is unique.
Max Lucado:
Yeah, well, the Trinity is the word we use to describe the triune God, our triune God, one God expressed in three persons. God, the Father, God, the Son and God, the Holy Spirit. And while the expression of our God through those three different manifestations or persons is unique, there is also a lot of overlap. The big idea is that God is working to create a Kingdom in which He will reign forever with those children who say yes to Him. So, God will have His garden of Eden, of that we can be sure. And that this God who is calling this to be comes to us in the form of a Father who provides and protects, a Savior who teaches and is our sacrifice and who is the pathway over the victory of death. And then the Holy Spirit who exists to bring strength and energy, who continues the work that was begun by God, the Father, Jesus, the Son, and then God, the Savior. And then the Spirit continues that work.
I think it's safe to say that His assignment or His unique role is to sustain and empower the work that's already begun. He sustains and empowers that work. When Jesus died on the cross, everything necessary for my salvation was done. When I say yes to Christ, the Holy Spirit comes and guarantees my salvation. He is the seal around my soul and the seal around yours. He does not add to what Jesus did on the cross, but He sustains it. He continues it. And so again, God, the Father, God, the Son, God, the Spirit, their assignments, their roles are overlapping in many places, but they have this unique assignment.
So, I think it's helpful to understand the role of the Holy Spirit by looking at the different metaphors in the New Testament. And that's what the book is about. It looks at the different word pictures. The Holy Spirit is wind or the Holy Spirit as the seal of the Saint or the fire in the soul of the Saint. All these different [inaudible 00:24:51]. There's well over a dozen of those in the Bible. I only looked at a dozen of them, but the Holy Spirit helps us then continue this work that is already done. And then finally, He is the executor of God's will on earth today. He is the executor of God's will. Whatever is desired by the Trinity is carried out right now by the Holy Spirit. He is everywhere simultaneously. He is as much where you are as where I am.
And I think most importantly, is that He takes up residence in the heart or in the soul, in the being of the man or woman who says yes to God, to salvation through Jesus Christ. He does not indwell those who reject God. But even those who reject God are blessed by His protection and covering. They enjoy the universal grace, but we who are Christians enjoy the particular and personal grace of the indwelling presence of Christ. What we discussed today is just one of the many things that He does to help us grow and be strong in our faith.
Kaley Olson:
That was so helpful.
Kendra LeGrand:
That was helpful.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah, because I think that we think about God, the Father or God, the Son, like you said, about providing, or our Savior. But then so often when we do pray, we forget that we have somebody who's already with us, that's helping us approach that zone of grace. So that was so helpful,
Max.
Kendra LeGrand:
Yes.
Kaley Olson:
Kendra, I know you have a question.
Kendra LeGrand:
I do.
Kaley Olson:
[inaudible 00:26:22] as well.
Kendra LeGrand:
I do. OK. So Max, I want to talk about this spiritual discipline of prayer because there's a lot of different spiritual disciplines we might see in the Bible, like fasting or solitude. And so, for somebody who might not have the spiritual discipline of prayer or might need a little more help with their prayer life, what is one piece of advice you'd have for somebody as they look into the spiritual discipline of prayer?
Max Lucado:
Yeah, I sure wish I could talk to that person and ask them, "What is it that keeps you from praying?" Many people fear they might miss pray. They might pray inappropriately or incorrectly. And so, our discussion today hopefully is really encouraging. Because we're reminded that even our groans, even our sighs are heard in heaven, thanks to the Holy Spirit. I do not believe we can miss pray any more than a five-year-old can climb up on his father's lap too quickly. I mean, we're quick to forgive that five-year-old if he scampers up in our lap and gives us a hug if it's done out of a pure heart.
And so don't let your intimidation of prayer keep you from praying. Jesus taught us to pray. He said, "When you pray, just say, Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be your name." (Luke 2:11) And so I would begin with the Lord's Prayer and just recite it. And as you're reciting it, let the words become yours and add your phrases to the phrases of the Holy Spirit as taught by Jesus. For example, when we say, "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be your name," you might pause right there and say, "Lord, today I think about how holy You are, Your hallowed name. You're unlike anything I've ever seen, any being I've ever been. Yet, You allow me to call you Father". And so, you can take the Lord's Prayer as taught to us by Jesus and revealed to us through the Spirit and just make it your outline for prayer. And that can help you, maybe, overcome this hesitation that you have in your prayer life.
Kendra LeGrand:
Thank you, Max. That was a good little tidbit of advice for those who might struggle with prayer.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah. And I think such a good question for us to end on. If you're listening to this and you're struggling in your prayer life, or you feel distant from God, think about what it is that's keeping you from prayer, like Max said. That was so helpful.
Kendra LeGrand:
Yeah. That was helpful, Max.
Kaley Olson:
Man, Max, I wish that we could talk for three hours about this. I joked at the beginning before we pressed record that we would be talking for three hours today and we're not. But I wish that we had that time, but we appreciate any time that you can spend with us, Max. You're such a great teacher.
Max Lucado:
Well, it sure went fast. It did. It was a delight to talk to you and I hope we have a chance to do it again sometime.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah, me too. Thank you so much. All right, Kendra. We're back.
Kendra LeGrand:
I mean, he is like the uncle that you just want to learn from, you know?
Kaley Olson:
He really is. He really is. Somebody on staff brought up the term funcle, like fun uncle.
Kendra LeGrand:
Oh.
Kaley Olson:
And I think that Max is that person for us.
Kendra LeGrand:
He can joke around.
Kaley Olson:
He can.
Kendra LeGrand:
He also brings the Truth.
Kaley Olson:
He does bring the Truth. Yeah.
Kendra LeGrand:
In a way that's wise.
Kaley Olson:
Well … And too, I mean, let's be honest. I did have a moment earlier whenever I talked about my grandmother, but that's just ... That's the way that I love that God works through teachings like this on the podcast, whether you're listening to it or maybe you're watching on YouTube right now. If the podcast has ministered to you in a way that it spoke to me where I was like, "Max, this was for me." I know that it's done that for so many people who listen and have listened throughout the years. And so, if the podcast has spoken to you in a way, we want to know about it.
Kendra LeGrand:
Yes.
Kaley Olson:
You can tell us. You can tell us by leaving us a review on Apple Podcast, because we love to hear your story and share that with the staff at Proverbs 31 who work so hard on releasing this podcast content every single month. But outside of leaving us a review, Kendra, you need to remind everybody about the Online Bible Study. So, will you do that?
Kendra LeGrand:
Yes. OK. Online Bible Study for Help Is Here starts November 14. And if you want to sign up, go to proverbs31.org/study, and you can see the sign-up form right there. And the really cool thing about the study is if you liked what Max had to share, we have more teachings by him for this study specifically that you can only get here. So, we get four weeks of teachings from
Max Lucado, and I think it's going to be a fabulous time.
Kaley Olson:
And we've recorded those earlier today.
Kendra LeGrand:
You did.
Kaley Olson:
They're so good. Yes. They're so good. And they're meant for you to be able to kind of tuck in your pocket and take with you.
Kendra LeGrand:
That's right. You can listen to them in the car, with a friend, on a walk.
Kaley Olson:
Watch on YouTube.
Kendra LeGrand:
Right, exactly.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah.
Kendra LeGrand:
Anytime.
Kaley Olson:
It's going to be great. I cannot wait for this study. Well, Kendra, thank you for joining me today and for being [inaudible 00:31:19] my co-hosting. Guys, thank you for listening. At Proverbs 31 Ministries, we believe when you know the truth and live the truth, it changes everything.