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Fake it till you make it? Phillip McKibbins says no — have faith that you're going to make it and work until you do. In Part 6, he shares how he survived 30 interviews, a stolen resume, and a withdrawn offer, and why the things you do when no one is watching are the most powerful things you will ever build.
The Leadership Sovereignty Podcast, hosted by Ralph E. Owens II and co-hosted by Terry Baylor, is a career acceleration platform
Leadership isn’t just a skill — it’s a career strategy for professionals seeking growth, influence, and promotion.
Hosted by Ralph Owens, Chief Information Officer, and Terry Baylor, CEO of a healthcare technology startup, the podcast delivers practical, real-world leadership strategies you can apply immediately. Each episode focuses on increasing visibility, navigating corporate dynamics, preparing for promotion, and leading beyond your title.
Expect short, high-impact conversations designed to help you think, act, and position yourself like a senior leader before you’re given the title.
You’re not just an employee. You’re the CEO of your career.
New episodes are released bi-weekly.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (00:00)
I freaking hate the phrase, fake it till you make it. That is false to me. No, it should be, I'm gonna have faith that I'm gonna make it and I'm gonna work until I make it. I'm taking anything. I'm gonna put in the work. I'm gonna learn. I'm gonna grow. I'm gonna make mistakes.
Ralph Owens (00:05)
Mm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Terry Baylor (00:15)
Sure, sure, sure,
sure. ⁓
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (00:20)
but I'm gonna keep going.
Ralph Owens (00:22)
to the Leadership Sovereignty podcast, where we focus on leadership principles to help you grow and excel in your career. In this week's episode of Speaking Truth to Power, part six, Philip focuses on the fact that true leadership is earned through action and not appearances. Faith means movement, which means continuously working even through setbacks. And your legacy is what you build in the dark, not what you do in the spotlight. Enjoy the show.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (01:05)
I'm going to stick with ESPN because my word is my bond. ⁓
Ralph Owens (01:10)
Yes.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (01:11)
The reason why I'm saying this is we're going to face challenges all day long. And we have to say, I'm not going to be discouraged that ⁓ they're going to put me through 30 interviews. I'm going to treat the 29th and the 30th interview as if it's the first one. I'm going to help them know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am the right candidate and that the only reason why we get in these positions is because we've earned it.
Ralph Owens (01:41)
Thanks watching.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (01:41)
You know,
I can say that in my career. I've never been given a position based on my color, based on my sex, based on anything that I could do other than doing the job because other than delivering. Because if you don't deliver, you're not going to be there. And the reason why we're still in these positions is because we're delivering. Now, it doesn't mean we're doing it perfect. We go through the same stuff every bail skill's through.
Ralph Owens (01:48)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Terry Baylor (01:54)
than delivering. Wow.
Ralph Owens (02:00)
Right.
Terry Baylor (02:00)
Yeah.
Ralph Owens (02:04)
Yes.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (02:09)
You know, but what we have to do is go, ⁓ if it takes 30, it takes 30. If it takes one, it takes one. ⁓ And we can't let ourselves get discouraged that our path may be longer. The important thing is to the journey and then getting to the destination. You know, everybody's journey is different, but we can all have the same destination. So I tell especially young people,
Ralph Owens (02:09)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
you
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (02:39)
⁓ When you don't get something, don't give up, don't get upset. ⁓ Take the time to go, what happened? What could I have learned from? How can I improve my skills? Be willing to take jobs that you normally wouldn't take. I remember many a time my wife getting upset with me. Why would you take that? You're getting underpaid, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I'm doing this because I'm trying to build a foundation. This is gonna give me what I need to compete for.
Ralph Owens (03:01)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (03:08)
another job. I'm staying later. I'm taking the project nobody else wants and they think it's going to be a failure because I'm going to take this thing and turn it into something successful. I'm going to prove to my boss that I'm willing to take risks and that I'm going to check in with him or her and I'm going to talk to him and I'm going to let him know what I'm thinking. Probably the best advice I ever got in my life. I remember
Ralph Owens (03:16)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (03:36)
being a young guy working at Chevron, and I wanted to distinguish myself from my colleagues. And I took on this project that I was gonna do all by myself. And I remember my boss saying, it's a good effort, but it would have been much better had you included your colleagues. They would have helped you see around corners. They would have helped you see the things that you can't see. And we all know as coders,
Terry Baylor (03:56)
Mmm.
Ralph Owens (03:59)
Mmm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (04:04)
I love telling this to young developers all the time. Comment your code. Have other people do code review. You're like, well, why? I'm brilliant. I know you are. But when you're doing it, you can't, the code is in your head. It's perfect in your head. It ain't perfect on paper. It's not perfect, you know, on a computer. So you want someone who is not as engaged, but has the knowledge to see it.
Terry Baylor (04:11)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Right, yep.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (04:32)
in ways that you can't see it and that you've got to be willing to humble yourself to take feedback, to take criticism and grow from it. The best coaches I've ever had in my life were the ones that were tough on me, the ones that told me, okay, so you fail, see you at practice in the morning, you know? And a lot of young people and even older people do this. They tend to work on their strengths.
Ralph Owens (04:42)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (05:01)
and they neglect their weaknesses. Cause they think if I get stronger, it'll just overshadow, you know, and, I gotta say this. I freaking hate the phrase, fake it till you make it. That is false to me. No, it should be, I'm gonna have faith that I'm gonna make it and I'm gonna work until I make it. I'm taking anything. I'm gonna put in the work. I'm gonna learn. I'm gonna grow. I'm gonna make mistakes.
Ralph Owens (05:02)
Mm. Yes.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Terry Baylor (05:26)
Sure, sure, sure,
sure. ⁓
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (05:31)
but I'm gonna keep going. ⁓ So the thing is, is that we've got to be willing to be uncomfortable, be comfortable with being uncomfortable, be comfortable with being the only one. You can find a sense of community. A lot of times being the only person there, if you open your mouth and you deal, I explained this to my wife this morning and she's like, well, aren't you worried about people misunderstanding your message? And I'm like, no.
Ralph Owens (05:33)
school.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (06:00)
because my message is universal. We all face the same challenges. All I'm doing is talking about, is how I did it. We all deal with doubt, self-talk. We can overcome it, but we overcome it by practicing it. I had a coach that once told me, I remember we ran a play 20 times in a row and everybody's getting tired. And he called me over because I was the captain and he was like,
Terry Baylor (06:05)
Yeah.
Ralph Owens (06:08)
Mm That's right.
Terry Baylor (06:09)
Sure,
sure, sure, sure.
Ralph Owens (06:12)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Terry Baylor (06:17)
Sure, sure, sure.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (06:30)
When are you going to show me that you're the captain? And I'm like, what do you mean I am? He's like, no, show me. What he was saying was, get in that huddle, tell your teammates, if it takes us doing it 21 times, we're going to do it. And then we're going to do it one more time because we're going to perfect it. Because when we perfect the play and then we learn all the variables.
Ralph Owens (06:34)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (06:58)
when things happen that we don't expect to happen and we know how to react to it, we're gonna execute flawlessly. And I was reminded, and I know some people out there probably hate this, because I'm from Columbus, Ohio, and I'm a dire Buckeye fan. And the thing that pleased me the most about winning the national championship last year was learning about the conversation they had after they lost to Michigan again.
Ralph Owens (07:15)
Mm-hmm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (07:28)
And people forget they beat Michigan 12 out of 13 years. There was no complaining on Ohio State side, but everybody was losing their minds because they lost a tough game four times in a row. And they had a family meeting where they called each other out. They made a commitment to one another that if this be the last game we play,
We're gonna give everything. We're gonna make sure that no stone has been left unturned. We're gonna do whatever it takes. And that when they played in their home stadium and saw all that orange and saw all those people from Tennessee that was gonna make it a home game, and they decided, you know what? They're going home disappointed tonight because we're gonna go at them and we're gonna be relentless and we're gonna keep going. There is no different.
then you being in the boardroom at the corporation, it's the same stuff. I'm gonna approach my work like it's my last day, and I'm gonna give everything that I have, and I'm going to give to my team, and we're gonna work and work and work and work. We're gonna outwork people. And if we are honest with each other, if we work together and we believe in one another, and we celebrate.
Ralph Owens (08:33)
Mm.
Terry Baylor (08:39)
Sure.
Ralph Owens (08:48)
Mm-hmm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (08:56)
another. We're going to overcome this and we're going to be left standing. on the job, the job is your work family. And we got to learn how to communicate. You know, I had a couple of people on my team that from day one were against me from the very beginning.
Ralph Owens (08:58)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Baylor (09:02)
Sure.
Ralph Owens (09:05)
Yeah.
Let's go.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (10:20)
And they worked every day to try to tarnish my reputation, convince people that I wasn't ⁓ good at what I do.
Ralph Owens (10:20)
Hmm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (10:30)
⁓ and, and I'm like, but is that not life? Is that not the enemy? The enemy is working against us constantly. And I told this to my wife, I can't get caught up into the tactics of the enemy. I've already got the victory. It's already been promised. Now what I got to do is walk into it. I've got to work into it. And then I just got to keep going, keep smiling. And no matter what's set back, just know that.
Ralph Owens (10:35)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
That's good.
Terry Baylor (10:47)
Sure, sure,
sure.
Ralph Owens (10:51)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Baylor (10:51)
Yep, yep.
Ralph Owens (11:00)
Mm-hmm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (11:00)
The sun
is gonna come up tomorrow. God still sits on the throne. And I am still his child.
Ralph Owens (11:02)
Yes. Yes he does.
Terry Baylor (11:05)
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir. That's it. I've often heard faith looks like movement. You see what I'm saying? So I can believe all I want, but there has to be something attached to it to have that ⁓ fruitful outcome. know, one of the things, Phil, that you mentioned ⁓ about the impactful book being the autobiography of Malcolm X and-
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (11:11)
Mmm. Mmm.
Terry Baylor (11:34)
You kind of hit on it a little earlier on the pre-show talk about just how his truth changed over time, right? Because of exposure. so I started smiling when you were talking about that because I have my youngest, well, actually my wife has my youngest son reading that book. And the very thing that you talked about is what my son Noah found as well. said,
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (11:44)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mm. ⁓
Terry Baylor (12:02)
dad, mom, because we were talking to them about it, it was the evolution, right? And how truth, I don't want to say that truth evolves, but as we get exposed, what we believe to be true are our position or our better understanding of, because sometimes our understanding about a topic is limited, right? And so maybe talk about that a little bit as
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (12:07)
Yes.
Thanks.
Terry Baylor (12:30)
Right. There's so many parallels to this, right? Sometime it's how you approach a job, right? I'm sure there's some information that you're sharing today that folks are thinking, ⁓ man, I've been approaching that challenge at work totally different. So now they're having to reposition themselves, right? Because now the truth that they know is clearer, right? And so just talk about maybe just a little bit about that evolution.
as a human being, right? And it's okay to admit to yourself, yeah, I didn't necessarily execute that the best way I could have because maybe my information was limited.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (13:11)
Well, to me it is studying to show yourself approved.
Terry Baylor (13:17)
Mmm, that's great.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (13:18)
And
you're constantly learning and constantly growing. And the question is, when is the project done? In reality, I was actually sharing this with the team the other day. The project is never really done. The coding never really stops. The question is, when do we reach the point of the acceptance criteria?
Ralph Owens (13:38)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (13:49)
Then
Terry Baylor (13:49)
Mmm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (13:49)
we reach a point
where the customer is willing to accept it. But then what we want to do is keep iterating on it. We want to keep growing it. We want to keep making it better. We want to keep thinking about what other problems are we facing? What other factors have changed? What are other things that we can do to drive more revenue or to make the job easier for our colleagues?
Terry Baylor (14:00)
that's good.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (14:16)
You know, so we have to become students of the process, students of the problem, you know. And, you know, most people want a beginning, a middle, and an end. In technology, there is no end. It is evolving daily. You know, now, I recently ran into situation. My wife loves to debate me on this because she says, don't you get in trouble saying this and stop talking.
Ralph Owens (14:21)
Mm.
Terry Baylor (14:21)
Mmm.
Ralph Owens (14:30)
Mm.
Right. Always.
Terry Baylor (14:35)
Mmm, that's
awesome. That's great.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (14:46)
You know, I tell her that it bothers me about ⁓ the AI boom. And we were at a conference and I had two people from Google come up to me and they're trying to talk to me about AI. And at one point I said, do you understand who you're talking to? And they're like, well, yeah. And I said,
Ralph Owens (15:09)
You
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (15:14)
Why haven't you talked to me about machine learning? Why haven't you talked to me about large language models? Why haven't you talked to me about the development of your algorithm and who's involved in it? Why haven't you talked to me about the ethics? Why haven't you talked to me about, you know, when you're using generative AI and it's spitting out information that that information could be wrong? Did you think about the biases?
Ralph Owens (15:41)
Mm-hmm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (15:44)
And I mean, by then there was a whole crowd of people around us. And then I made the statement, do not come trying to sell me this based on your appearance. And both these people were incredibly good looking people. I'm like, you're talking to someone who this is my business. I am a steward.
Ralph Owens (15:44)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (16:12)
They are trusting me to make the right decisions. So I said, I will listen to you guys when you address those things that I raised. And then I posed the question, how is this different from the dot com error? Cause I said, nah, y'all are young. So y'all probably don't remember this, but I remember when everybody was out doing websites and everybody was like, and everybody became an expert. So I started talking to them about
Ralph Owens (16:12)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Mm.
Mm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (16:42)
How much is it going to cost for me to run the language models? And that show me where your solution has generated revenue. I'm not saying that it hasn't automated the process or made something smoother. Show me the ethics. Show me who is making the decision. So I said, when you answer those questions for me, then I will take your meeting.
Ralph Owens (16:52)
Mm-hmm.
Bye.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (17:09)
and we'll gladly have you come see us at the mass. Those people have not shown up yet. And this was over a year ago. Now, doesn't mean that they eventually won't figure it out, but what I'm trying to get them to understand is, is that we're in the business to make money. We play basketball to make money. We play basketball to entertain, but it's to make money, all right? And I'm not going to just put out something.
Ralph Owens (17:16)
Mm.
Mm.
Yes.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (17:38)
because it's sexy, because it's the way everybody else is trying to do it. Most people, if they really knew what they were talking about and really knew the amount of money they're gonna spend and they're constantly going through that, if I spend this, what's the earned value that I'm gonna get? Then they're gonna see, we're not ready for prime time yet to go whole hogging this. But there are other forms that yeah, it'll be great with helping us.
Ralph Owens (17:40)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Terry Baylor (17:57)
All right.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (18:07)
create this process or automate. Yeah, let's do that. But we're not just going to a whole hog, sell the farm because it's the latest buzz. And I was talking to the CIO of the Suns last week and he was telling me, someone in the business made a decision. They decided to roll this thing out. And that language model ended up getting hope to...
Ralph Owens (18:10)
Hmm. Hmm.
Bye.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (18:34)
some of our customers' personal information, and now it's out on the web, and now we're trying to pull it back. And I was like, you know, what you're talking about is actually common, because a lot of people don't know of the risks and dangers. And he said, yeah, I was trying to get the people to understand. And he said, when I realized that they were no longer listening to me, that's when I knew it was time to leave.
Ralph Owens (18:38)
Hmm. Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (19:03)
And he said, I wish that I would have met you because your argument would have been what I used with those people. Because I was telling them, look, I'm facing the same thing. And what I've tried to do is isolate some of the situations for people where we've blocked certain things at the firewall to prevent them from doing things. But I'll tell folks that, look, you've got to be willing to...
Ralph Owens (19:03)
Mm.
Yep. Mm-hmm.
Terry Baylor (19:23)
sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (19:32)
be relentless, be fearless, be humble. You keep working, you surround yourself with good people ⁓ and you keep going because it's continual. ⁓ And that, you know, if you're willing to put in the work, you know, like I told my wife, I was coming today to the office to not only take this, but it's gonna put in a couple extra hours on some things, cause we need to do it, you know.
Ralph Owens (19:44)
Mm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (20:02)
⁓ I'm the leader. ⁓ And it's the things that you do that people don't see that's more impactful than the things you do that people do see. You know, so I hope I answered your question. I don't know if I answered it the way that I actually...
Ralph Owens (20:10)
Right. Mm hmm.
Terry Baylor (20:16)
Yeah. No,
no, no, no, no, no. was about, no, it was about like things evolving, right? And that's, that's, that's, yeah, I think that's spot on. So Ralph, man, I know this has been a, man, there's just so much in here to unpack. Phil, you've been so great. I think there's so many things that people can, that are just going to chew on this a while.
Ralph Owens (20:31)
Man, this is so rich, man.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (20:39)
Well, you know, at end of the day.
I've asked myself this question daily. What is your legacy? Because I know that, you know, if I keep shaving and I keep the gray away, maybe I can trick them into thinking I'm still a little younger. Maybe you get about 10 years more into this before it's all over. But I think about legacy now. I think about when you leave here, did you make it a better place? Who did you help?
Ralph Owens (21:13)
Thanks.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (21:14)
Who did
you get help put on the path? ⁓ And it's no longer about how much money I'm making. It's more about, did I serve the people well today? Did my customer, you know, it's no greater joy for me than when we've done something that's helped our customer, the people that we support do their jobs better and they just say, thank you.
Ralph Owens (21:30)
Mm.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (21:44)
That means a lot to me because that tells me that we're doing the right thing. you know, God has blessed us with his wisdom and he's blessed us with this to share, to give away freely. ⁓ And anybody who's willing to listen, I just want them to be successful. I'm no longer chasing this person or that person or trying to get over that person. It's no longer.
Ralph Owens (21:53)
Yes.
Mm. Freely, yes.
Phillip Gregory McKibbins (22:14)
in my realm of thinking. All I think about is, is if we do the best that we could do
Ralph Owens (22:14)
Mm-hmm.