Africa's Youth Land Movement | Innocent Antoine HOUEDJI, Youth Initiative for Land in Africa

Meet the man who is leading Africa’s youth movement for land access. 

Young people and women are often excluded from accessing land in Africa. This is a huge problem - and an opportunity - for its future, as 60% of Africa’s population is under the age of 25. 

Innocent Antoine HOUEDJI attended a mega-conference about land in Africa in 2019, but saw barely any mention of youth. There, he explains, the idea for his organization was born, and his first organizational members were secured. 

In this episode, he talks about the barriers youth and women face when it comes to accessing land in Africa, which relate to both economic, political, and traditional forms of land control. He also discusses the sacrifices he made in order to launch the organization with zero money, and the leadership tactics he has employed to manage rapid growth across - get this - 31 countries. 

If you’re inspired by the work of YILAA, and found this episode helpful, consider sending a small donation their way as a token of your appreciation: https://www.yilaa.org/category/cigofa/. 

This episode was produced by Jordan Thierry of Dream Chase Media; with essential production and marketing expertise from Aranza Garcia and Issac Gsoria. 

You can follow How to Build a Nonprofit on Instagram and TikTok. Sign up for Jordan’s free newsletter at DreamChaseMedia.com. 

Creators and Guests

Host

Jordan Thierry

Jordan Thierry is a one-of-a-kind dude. He’s been called a master generalist, thought partner, community leader, documentary filmmaker, resource connector, international man of mystery—and that’s just the beginning. Jordan once dreamed of being a big-time filmmaker, but he could never quite pull himself away from activists, teachers, and social workers long enough to make it in Hollywood. Those are his people. And he’s always found more purpose in the movement than the industry. If you’ve worked with Jordan, you know he’s gracious, grounded, curious, and ambitious in that laid-back, West Coast kind of way. He’s also known for asking really good questions. A lot of them. Which is exactly why podcasting is such a natural fit. Too bad it doesn’t pay. So do him a solid—listen to an episode. He thinks he’s pretty good at it. You might agree.

Guest

Innocent Antoine HOUEDJI

Founder and CEO, Youth Initiative for Land in Africa

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Jordan Thierry (00:30)
I'm your host Jordan Theory and this is How to Build a Nonprofit. In this episode, I interview Innocent Antoine Houedji, founder and CEO of the Youth Initiative for Land in Africa. Innocent is passionate and knowledgeable about changing policy and helping young people and women access land for sustainable agriculture, economic opportunities, and ethical resource stewardship.

He's a recognized expert in land governance in Africa and holds an educational training as an economist. In our interview, he taught me about the barriers youth and women face when it comes to accessing land in Africa that relate to both economic, political, and traditional forms of land control. He also told me about how the idea for the organization was born and the leadership tactics he has employed to manage rapid growth across, get this, 31 countries.

Towards the end of our conversation, I asked him about the funding cuts happening across the international development landscape and his organization has been affected so far. All of this and more in today's episode. And I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did.

Jordan Thierry (01:43)
All right, all right. So I think we're recording now. We're live. You can hear me okay?

Innocent Antoine Houedji (01:48)
Yeah, I'm getting you, yeah.

Jordan Thierry (01:50)
Perfect, all right.

just start with a little bit of the backstory, Innocent of your life. You grew up in the Republic of Benin.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (01:54)
Yeah.

Yeah, I grew up the Republic of Benin, but I have born in Cote d'Ivoire. Yeah, but both of my parents are Beninis, so my mother and my father.

Jordan Thierry (02:08)
Okay.

And can you tell me what it was like for you growing up in Benin anything related to your interest in land governance?

Innocent Antoine Houedji (02:30)
Yeah, you know, I think first of all, my background is very, very simple. I'm economist and I'll let you know how I shift to the land issues because it's based on

the problem that my father got in the past because all the time my father...

stay in Cote d'Ivoire and when he was there he bought some piece of land in Benin and finally when he came back in Benin he lost all the land that he has in Benin even if at the courts. Why? Because

Jordan Thierry (03:11)
Wow.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (03:16)
This land has not been secured in any formality. He hasn't done any formalities at all, but he pay everything. He has the receipt of the payment and everything.

My senior brothers, told me about this story. So when I was in university, I started learning economy and after that, because of these issues, I shifted to the rural economy and after that, natural resources where...

I get the chance to know more about land issues, how to seek more land, how to get access to the land, what is the court formalities and whatever. From there, I get an opportunity to work on one of the powerful projects in Benin called Millennium Challenger Accounts.

funded by Milliennium Challenge Corporation. They have the component of land projects. They have the component, so it's dedicated for land issues. So I get the chance to be hired by the project and then I work in these projects. How to title the land, how to secure the land, how to map the land.

and how to make sure that the community land is secured. So that is what we have done during this project. And then from there, slowly by slowly, I'm seeing that, yes, my dream is coming out. So...

I shift to the youth issues because, you know, after my father died, we don't have any land maybe to use. So it's like we are the son of my father, but we are really young, but we don't have anything.

But it's not that our parents don't pay the land, don't buy the land for us. But because of these issues, how the people are managing the land, we lost all of that. So now it's responsibility for me to defend these kind of issues for other young people.

other girls, other women, because we know that the women also face a lot of, even if my mother don't get anything. So she suffer with us. So the dream is coming from, coming from very far away. And when I'm working, I start analyze carefully.

how the question of youth and how the question of women has been included in the decision-making process and also in the different conferences and meetings where one day I have been invited at the African Policy Land Conference and then I get the evidence. Evidence...

that in this conference in 2019, we have less topic talking about youth and land. And I say, ⁓ that is what I'm trying to look at since many years. So the evidence is there. So now let's create some space where we can now defend

the young people

When it comes to land issues, it comes to their assets, sequel land for them, make sure that even if the parent leaves some or left some land for them, we need to make sure that this land belongs to them, secured for them, and then they can easily use it.

for the different projects, maybe agricultural projects. And also use it, have an easy access for these men. Because sometimes the family can also refuse to...

to the young people to have access because of customary issues. So that is where the story.

of my personality to become land defenders, youth land defenders is coming from. So you see a little bit, yeah.

Jordan Thierry (07:19)
So thank you for that, ⁓ Innocent. For those of us who aren't as familiar with like, you know, and obviously Africa is a large continent, you know, what are some of the kind of typical problems that come up when it comes to the transference of land through families? Because I understand that

there are very different, you know, different situations where in some places the land is governed by the tribe or the clan. And in other cases, you know, the land is governed by the government. In other places, you know, it's privatized, right? So what would you say, like, what are the typical ways that

these problems arise in the governance of land and how land is passed down through families.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (08:10)
Thank you so much. First of all, let me talk about the issues that we have in Africa. We have a very large arable land in Africa.

most let's say 65 percent of the land has not been used.

So this has become a big opportunity for young people.

And second thing, when you look at little bit the population of Africa.

This population of Africa is really young. So Africa is the youngest continent across the world right now.

So this also becomes an opportunity for our different countries, our different government, our different institutions. But the paradigm that we have is many of them classify young people as a vulnerable group.

It's quite crazy.

Jordan Thierry (09:01)
Mm-hmm.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (09:02)
They are not using the young people as an opportunity to shift the narrative or to change the narrative. They are using the young people as vulnerable groups.

And then they're talking about gender issues. Young people have been already included in gender aspects, but they are not seeing the opportunity that the young people have to bring on the table and also help our continent to grow up. So that is something that we look at.

Jordan Thierry (09:28)
Mm-hmm.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (09:32)
We get a lot of challenges when it comes to land. First of all, it's a customary, let's say, system. Customary and traditional system. Who sometimes, let's say, now is changing a little bit.

But last time, this customary and traditional system is not allowing young people to take control and to get access easily to the land.

And second thing is question of information. Yeah, when we look at that, the young people become an opportunity. The young people themselves, I they see themselves as an opportunity for the continent. So it's something. So we need to bring

information to the young people themselves and show them that that is what we can do, that is the opportunity that we have so that they can be conscious about their status.

Jordan Thierry (10:24)
Mm-hmm.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (10:24)
as

an opportunity. information. So, sensitize the young people themselves and also make them become conscious about the issues. And let them take the responsibility.

And second thing also about the information, know, is question of decision, let's say policy side. When we look at the lot of policy, land policy across the continent, we see that in the past, in the few years, many policies are not defined clearly.

Jordan Thierry (10:41)
Mm-hmm.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (10:52)
the place of the young people, the role of the young people when we're talking about land management, land governance. So it's also important, so we have the challenge also for the decision makers to understand what is the role of the young people. So this also is a lack of information, what is one of the challenges.

Another thing is the question of data.

Jordan Thierry (11:15)
All right.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (11:16)
Yeah, you see, we have a lot of projects across the continent. And we have a lot of funding going in these different projects. But sometimes at the end, what is the result? What is the outcome? Sometimes we have a good outcome, but most of the time,

It's like, yeah, the project end, it's end. If we don't have funding, we cannot move forward. So after that, the project stay as let's say PDF. And then the next step of the project stay there. So yeah, yeah, it's a PDF. So the very important thing is

Jordan Thierry (11:36)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

A PDF, that's it. That's the end result, right?

Innocent Antoine Houedji (11:51)
It shows that the data that people are using to design the project is not the adequate data that they will use to fulfill the expectation of the young people.

Jordan Thierry (12:03)
And what would you say are the expectations of the young people, the potential of the young people? What are the, like you said, Africa is a very young continent. I believe I've read that 50 % of Africans are under the age of 18 or 21, something like that. a huge opportunity, like you said, to shift the narrative and to build up

African economic power and and well-being. What are some of the kind of projects that the young people that you're working with are doing with the land that they have gotten access to?

Innocent Antoine Houedji (12:40)
Thank you so much. Let's say that we have some of the projects going on. And the very specific thing that we do before starting our project because of this question of adequate data. In each of our projects we do what we call baseline study. Sometimes it's not...

Many projects are not doing that. They are using existing data and start running the project.

It can be good, but sometimes it's not given the result that you want because it's not the real data from the community, from the different stakeholders, from the grassroots level. People are using, for example, collected by the government, maybe by other organizations, and then design the project and start implementing.

But in each project that we want to do, we do something that we call baseline study. We check again and collect the new data from the grassroots level, from the community who want to benefit from this project and see how we can strengthen and make sure that the implementation of our project is in equation with

what the community needs, what the young people need, the new technology that we have now. So that is what we do. That is one powerful, let's say, the strength that we have in our different projects. And the second one, we have quite a number of the projects that we are doing. We say we cannot talk about land.

without the concrete project, the ground project, and then we start design some projects. The first project that we designed is called 10 million of youth and 10 million of hectares. Again, desertification. We develop agriculture resilient to the climate issues. So that we...

Jordan Thierry (14:27)
Hmm.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (14:34)
create the agricultural villages for the young people. And then make sure that these young people, if for example we give funding to five young people, they will be able to help more, let's say 20 young people to be established also their own agricultural company and whatever.

It's like we start with the pilot young people, but we scale up and then we will have more impact and have more agricultural villages. And also we train them how to conserve or how to restore the degraded so that they can also use some.

land restoration system to restore the land, also to restore the ecosystem and also build something and start to produce crops and develop the very great agriculture resilient to the climate issues. That is something that we are doing. And this project is ongoing project right now. And then we have the pilot one in Benin. And then this project has been designed for 20 countries across the continent.

Jordan Thierry (15:41)
Wow. Wow.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (15:42)
And the second project that we have is Circular Economy Ecosystem Services. This project is a coalition project that we are doing with others stakeholders across the continent, funded by

let's say Clean Air and Coalitions Network and funded by UNEP. These projects allow us to teach young people on how to develop the agroecology system.

Jordan Thierry (16:15)
Mm-hmm.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (16:15)
to make sure

that we eat bio and then we have a good agricultural products and whatever and then bring all of them together to create the circular economy. And for that we let's say 15 hectares of land in Ghana.

Jordan Thierry (16:33)
Okay.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (16:34)
where we built what we call the technology, agroecology and technology park. It's like the learning hub space where the young people can be there, the young people will be host.

so that they can learn about how to develop the agroecology technologies, to build a good system of circular economy and whatever. So we have everything there to host the young people across the continent.

They can come learn more about agroecology, strengthen their capacity on agroecology and circular economy, and then they can scale up in their different countries and also help more young people across the continent to know that agriculture is not a work for the poor

Jordan Thierry (17:22)
Right.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (17:23)
Yeah, because we need to rethink agriculture and also we need to redesign agriculture and make this agriculture more accessible for young people. That's we create this technology and show them how it's going on, is the benefit of agriculture. And then we have some of the equipment and show them that, yeah, agriculture is not...

issues or an affair of the poor Other projects that we have a lot of, we have data for youth non-assets projects, which is a very powerful project also that we are doing. We are collecting data. We have also, advocacy platform where we bring the different stakeholder together.

Jordan Thierry (17:48)
Mm-hmm.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (18:06)
For example, we have a platform that we call Youth and Land Multi- Stakeholder platform, is platform we initiate with African Union, Landesa, International Land Coalition, IGAD and YILA.

So we initiated this platform to bring the effort together, create the synergy between all of these institutions so that we can bring our resources together, our energy together, our young people together, our strategy together to impact more young people across the continent.

Why I gave this example? I gave this example to show that we need to work together.

Jordan Thierry (18:45)
Absolutely.

Well, what I see that you're doing, Innocent, mean, is very, to say important is an understatement, right? crucial, it's powerful. And some would say it's even radical by empowering young people to secure land and steward land and utilize land.

for the benefits of the community and their families because there's a lot of people preying on African land, right? And so, you know, I'm curious because of the demand for mineral rights in different places on the continent, as well as the importance and increasing importance of access to fresh water.

and groundwater, that the land is, you're competing also with the global market, right? And what is the role ⁓ that the local and national governments have played to either help you all in securing the land and supporting access to the land by youth.

versus how they made it more difficult by giving access to the private sector and to international actors that want access to land on the continent.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (20:07)
Thank you so much. know, something is very important. So the government is helping us a lot. Yeah, they are helping us a lot. And we are not keep quiet. That why they are bound to help us. First of all, what we are trying to do, we are also helping them.

to see how to include the question of youth in the different land policy. That is very important. And some of the government, they are giving us this opportunity to give our point of view about the different new land policy so that we can be able to...

advise how to bring this aspect in the land policy. I can give you some example. In DSC, for example, we do this work and then we get this.

And in other countries also we are doing closely. That is the first thing. Also the different institutions working on land issues, they are very helpful because they give us an opportunity to speak, to share what we have, and also to hear what we have

and then it helps them to also include the question of youth in the different processes.

And if I want to say also, when I take for example the government of Ghana for example, the 15 hectares that we get in Ghana, it belongs to government.

Jordan Thierry (21:29)
Okay.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (21:30)
So you see, so I think step by step the processes is changing and the government is understanding the role of the young people and create some space and some opportunity for them. First of all, in the policy side to have access. Now in a practical way,

also to make sure that we have some space that we can use to start developing some projects. But it's a few governments who are working on that. our wish is if all the governments across Africa can understand the role, can understand what we are saying, I think...

Jordan Thierry (21:57)
Mm-hmm.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (22:10)
it will be good so that the young people from the different countries can also get access, for example, to the public land because we have the public land, sometimes the public land is there, nobody are using, but at same time, the young people face the question of unemployment.

And then when you look at it little bit, that is what increases more the migration issues. Because when the young people don't have anything to do, they don't have job, they are they cannot two times per day, they migrate. So the public land...

We need the public land so that the young people can start developing this small, small agricultural project and other projects also. And then get more facilities for this small skilled enterprise for the young people also because, know.

It's quite important, so how we can help the young people to create the agricultural company. small enterprise. So it's quite important. So I think the different governments are working and different institutions are working so that you can get more involvement in the policy side.

And some of them also are working so that we can also get access to the land, shift the paradigm, change the narrative, change how the customary system is working so that the young people and the women can get more access, more control of the land.

And one actor that seems very important that I want to talk about is the traditional authorities.

Jordan Thierry (23:54)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Can you explain what that means, the traditional authorities for those of us who aren't as familiar?

Innocent Antoine Houedji (24:00)
So the traditional authorities is the chief, it's the guardian of the customary system. So if you want to change the policy, you can change the policy, but at the ground, if the traditional authorities, those who are the guardian of the land,

who are the guardian of the customary system, they are not understanding, they don't have a good understanding of this policy, how this policy can be implemented at the ground side. So they are playing the key to help the young people and women to get access and make sure that the policy has been really implemented at the community level.

grassroots level. So in our organization, we get a partnership with the traditional forum of traditional authorities in Africa. It's called FATA. So it's a platform of all the traditional authorities.

across Africa. So we get a partnership with them and then we have some time what we call intergenerational dialogue. Make sure that, yeah, they understand our needs and we also we understand their point of view and then merge, have a conciliation so that they can now advocate for us.

Jordan Thierry (25:05)
Mm-hmm.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (25:19)
at the community level, the grassroots level, so that this customary system can be a little bit, not change it, but the customary system can become more flexible to help the young people and women to have access and also have control of the land. So that is it. So we have these different actors. So the institution...

Jordan Thierry (25:35)
Wow.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (25:40)
the government and the traditional authorities who are playing the key role. They are doing, but we need more than that so that we can.

Jordan Thierry (25:47)
Mm-hmm.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (25:49)
really change the narrative and yeah get the Africa that we want because we want the Africa we want sustainable for Africa sustainability for Africa we want job for the young people we want to empower the women so if you want all of that we cannot do it alone we need to

build the synergy and work with them. They are doing, but we need more government, more institutions now to help us to get the concrete action, concrete projects for the young people based on the land that they will give to the young people, for example, the public land. Thank you.

Jordan Thierry (26:25)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Wow, yeah, that sounds like a really powerful body and like a instrumental partnership that you have

And so I wanna take a shift a little bit just to like your organizational development journey what year did you start the organization and how did you first get it set up?

Innocent Antoine Houedji (26:47)
Yeah, thank you so much. You get a little bit the dream where this idea of land, working on land issues is coming from. And now, I think in 2019, I was in the African Policy Land Conference in Côte d'Ivoire where I was.

one of the young people, young experts. And when I was in this conference, the first reaction, my first reaction is check about all the thematics who is talking about young people and land.

Jordan Thierry (27:28)
Mm-hmm.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (27:28)
So I check all the agenda. It's a very big and powerful conference. It's a conference who bring more than 1,000 people across the world.

Jordan Thierry (27:37)
Wow,

impressive.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (27:40)
So I check all the agenda, I see almost one or two topics talking about youth and

And I was so surprised. I was so sad that people are talking about family farming, people are talking about investment in land, people are talking about how the traditional authorities can now take the power of the land, how the government can use the land for investment.

So a lot of topics, but we have only two topics talking about youth and land. I was so sad. And that is where I got my evidence. And I said, this cannot continue. Now we need to set up something, maybe to stop or maybe change the narrative.

And during the conference, I start my evangelism. So I start talking with other young people, participants of the conference, tell them that is the evidence, that is what I get as the evidence. So the idea is to create the movement who can change the narrative. So...

I talk to many young people but those are saying, no, no, no, no, we don't want to be part of this movement. But some of those accepted to be part of the movement. So that is where I start collecting my people who want to join the dynamic. And then when we bring them together now, after the conference, we start.

Jordan Thierry (28:59)
Mm-hmm.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (29:06)
We set up some of the meetings, we start talking and then we start creating the different tools, how to build of that and whatever. So that is how the idea come and I start the idea and now I cannot fulfill this idea alone.

it's now people see that, this vision is not a small one because the different departments, what we are doing at the ground, what we are doing, changing the policy. So they see that, we need that thing. So that why each day the organization growing and then.

we get a lot of support from different organizations.

so that is how we set up the organization. So it's coming from the gap that we have and also coming from my personal institutions in the land issues. So this conference in 2019 become an evidence who create the fire

Jordan Thierry (30:02)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And you started to, so that's where you started organizing basically your people, their movement to, it was at that conference in 2019. And since then, you know, six years or so you've, you know, you've grown tremendously. I mean, you guys are in 32 countries. Is that right?

Innocent Antoine Houedji (30:10)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, 31 countries now.

Jordan Thierry (30:24)

countries across the continent. So, you know, I know you've got a long reach across Africa. And part of that is probably because of your previous projects ⁓ and work that you did with the Millennium Challenge Initiative and things of that nature, I imagine. But can you tell us about like how you started to develop your board of directors?

And what was that process like for you? How did you decide who should be on your board?

Innocent Antoine Houedji (30:55)
Yeah, we started this journey. think we got some of meetings together with some of the key people who started this process with us. And we decided to have the board. And then we wrote what we called the TUR, what is the role of the board.

and then we send out the call and then if you want to dedicate your time and your resources to build this network, you decide, you are free to decide if you want to be at the port or not. Without that, we get also some of the institutions.

let's say the representative of some of the strategic organizations who accepted to join the board so that we can get advices and also get some orientation and yeah.

some of the orientation to those donors and their partners. So it's quite important. So we have some of our team who started with us at the beginning.

one in the board and those are the different people who are powerful people from the different institutions who are also members of the board. we do this democratically so that they will be free to accept and join the board. So after that we set up the board and then yeah.

Jordan Thierry (32:12)
Mm-hmm.

And when you say institutions, are you referring to like international development, know, non-governmental organizations as institutions or actual like government institutions?

Innocent Antoine Houedji (32:34)
No, we have some development institutions and then we have those come from NGOs also. yeah, yeah. But they are the people who start with us, the journey, and then we see the role that they are playing and then now we need them to be part of the board. And finally, some of them are accepted. Those I say they don't have time to...

Jordan Thierry (32:42)
Grace.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (32:58)
to dedicate to this role,

Jordan Thierry (33:00)
That's great. how does it work in, I'm not sure how it works in Africa. Do you have to, are you registered in as an organization in every single country that you're in or do you just kind of registered in Benin and how does that work?

Innocent Antoine Houedji (33:16)
Thank you so much, very powerful. It's not easier. It's not easier because we start with in one country because we need to have the legal entity. So we start in Benin. So we register in Benin. And with the registration of Benin now, we can register in other countries as international NGO.

Jordan Thierry (33:18)
That sounds like a lot. ⁓

Okay, okay, uh-huh.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (33:42)
Yeah, that is the process. That is the process. So we guide very well so that...

Jordan Thierry (33:41)
I see. Okay, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (33:48)
people cannot start pulling the organization everywhere, doing everything they want with the organization. So we follow up and then we evaluate the work that each one is doing and then follow up everything and guide them very well in this side.

Jordan Thierry (33:53)
Right.

So it's kind of like different chapters in each country that start under kind of your leadership and mentorship. And then after a couple of years, if things go well, they sort of get more autonomy, a little bit more independence and can register directly within that country. Okay. Okay. And when you started the organization, did you have money to fund the work or how did you start to raise money?

Innocent Antoine Houedji (34:10)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Great, great, great, great, great, great.

We start with zero money. It was very powerful. something is very powerful is, you know, anything you want to do, you need to put God at the front. This is something very important.

you need to put God at the front. We start with zero money.

And then, let's say that someone needs to sacrifice himself for those. That is a second powerful thing. Someone needs to sacrifice. And the person who sacrifices more is the visionary. Someone who has the vision.

he sacrificed himself for other people so he can take his money even if he's food money he can bring in because he trusts in this and he believes in division so he starts with zero money and after that yeah and after that

Jordan Thierry (35:25)
and you're the visionary.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (35:28)
you will see some people who are following the visionnaire .

They also dedicate their time and put in and then I thank so much those people who believe in the vision and follow me carefully till now. those people can believe for a short time and after that they will say, ⁓ nothing is coming, so let me live. But those believe and continue pushing the dynamic.

So, you know, so their contribution in terms of time, in terms of knowledge, in terms of capacity is also something who can represent an amount of money that they are bringing in.

Jordan Thierry (36:10)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (36:12)
So you see, you can start with zero. We start with zero money. And then our first fund that we receive is 12,000 USD.

Jordan Thierry (36:22)
Okay, wow, wow.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (36:23)
We get this from NELGA, it's called Network of Excellence in Land Governance in Africa. NELGA. They give us because the first program that we design is called International Youth Land Governance in Africa. International Youth Land Governance in Africa. It's called SIGOFA.

This conference brings different young people together so that they can exchange. It's like a dialogue space. When we bring the young people, we bring the decision makers like traditional authorities, the government people, so that we talk about a specific topic. And then from there we get some recommendations. So this recommendation...

We use this recommendation to design the project that we want. Because we are not start design the project because we have design, because we have the gap or we hear about the gap, no. We design the project based on the recommendation of this dialogue conference. So...

When we designed the first edition of the conference, Nelga, West Africa, Francophone, Shapita said, yes, we want to fund this, we want to give the funds to this first project.

And then I thank Professor Diallo, who is the chair of this chapter, Diallo Ibrahima. And also Umifai, she's one of the powerful lady who facilitate the process. And then we get these funds. When we get these funds we do our first edition of SIGOFA International Youth and Land Governance Conference in Africa, edition one.

in 2020. When we do, after that, everything starts changing.

So you can start with zero money and then when you start with zero money you need to be concrete, consistent.

goods outcome of what you are doing, some people are observing you, how you are working without money. So that is what happened. And when they see how we start working,

Boom! They give us the money to organize the first edition. And after the first edition, we get some recommendations. And based on the recommendations, we start designing our different projects.

that we can use now to approach the donors and say, we have this project. This project comes from the recommendation of this conference. And then that is the background of these different recommendations. So now that is our budget. And that is our target. And that is what we want to get as expectations. And from there, when they look at the process, they say,

So let's trust in them and then see if we give them 1,000 USD, they can do something. So it's a test process. The institution will test you and see if you are good and if they can trust in you and whatever. So when you succeed for that, so you see that your grants, your funding starts.

Jordan Thierry (39:03)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (39:22)
Increase. step by step, it starts to increase because you are building the confidence of your populace. They trust in you.

Jordan Thierry (39:30)
Mm-hmm

That's, I think that's super important. And that your story and experience affirms my own experience, you know, in the United States working with nonprofits in that oftentimes you have to show what you can do with no money before you can get some money. And I'm not sure if that's, you know, I think that's true for largely most nonprofits, non-governmental organizations and

Innocent Antoine Houedji (39:50)
Yeah.

Jordan Thierry (39:59)
in the world, but it's definitely true for black led organizations too here, right? You have to prove that you can do the work and do something valuable before you often get your first check. We don't necessarily get the same benefit of the doubt that ⁓ other organizations may get. And so now, where are you able to share like kind of about

how big your organization is or how big your donor base is, what kind of financial support you're getting from different parts of the world.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (40:32)
Thank you so much. can't maybe call the name, but yeah, but let me say that today we have a lot of partners, financial partners. First of all, for each project, for example, when I take, for example,

International Youth and Non-Governance Conference. We have some partners who are supporting each year. And then our main partner is Giazette.

GEZ is the German cooperation institution.

we have a lot of other partners on this program. When we take for example, YILA training center. This is a center for training. We train the young people, the new generation, the new decision makers.

the change makers so we train them so we create this center so we do physical series of webinar and e-learning portal so we have an e-learning portal so that the people can do self training so for this project also we have some partners who are supporting when it is it's common

the different action projects like agriculture and climate, blah blah blah. Let's say the field projects, we have also some partners. For example, in Kenya, we are doing one project on climate justice and sustainability. We have partners for that. We have some partners for that. And after that,

Jordan Thierry (41:54)
Wow.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (41:59)
We have also data for youth and access. We have some partners for that. So for each project, we have its partners. You understand? yeah, yeah. So, sir, we have a lot of relationships. So globally, we have international partners. We have regional partners. We have national partners.

Jordan Thierry (42:07)
Wow, that's a lot of relationships to manage.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (42:22)
We have, let's say, the grassroots levels partners. that is our configuration. So today, we can say we have umbrella of some of the partners who are helping us in each program, in each project. The last project that we get, the last grant is the E.U.

Union Fund for Tanzania, YILAA Tanzania for example. So these also we have some partners. We have already the EU.

who is the funding and then we have also the national partners, have the grassroots level partners who are working closely with us. you see, so for each project we have our partners who are supporting, depending on their interests. So.

Jordan Thierry (43:10)
so that's,

I mean, it's a lot of work. And so I'm wondering, you know, how big is your staff and what has the experience been like for you to bring on and develop a staff to help manage all these projects in all these different countries? What that experience has been like for you? What have the challenges been and what's helped you along the way?

Innocent Antoine Houedji (43:35)
Thank you so much. the headquarters based in Benin, the headquarters will have 10. We have 10. And these 10, they are working membership, communication, IT.

project management.

Okay, us.

Jordan Thierry (43:50)
finance.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (43:51)
So

that is the big view of what they are doing. So we are 10. And now we have 31 country representatives, like a country directors.

So also they have their staff at the country level. And then we have two regional coordinator because it's more easier for me to talk to two people than talk to 31 people.

Jordan Thierry (44:21)
Mmm, okay.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (44:23)
English speaking countries and the other one coordinating the French speaking countries. So I delegate my power to them, they work to them so that they can look at with them and then so from the bottom to the up and to the up to the bottom. And then the team of the headquarter is coordinating everything.

and roll up to them and then everything is.

Jordan Thierry (44:47)
So it requires a lot of trust, right? You have to really trust those two people. And I imagine you travel a lot, ⁓ being that you guys are all across the continent. How often are you traveling to different places in Africa? And how does that make your job more difficult or does it, you know, doesn't make it easier?

Innocent Antoine Houedji (44:51)
Yeah, that is it. That is it.

Thank you so much. you know, the question of trust that you have highlighted and question of delegation is quite important. Because if I don't have this big capacity to delegate work, I cannot travel like that.

Jordan Thierry (45:21)
Yeah.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (45:22)
I trust in my team. then anything they want to do as a decision, they don't need me necessarily. Maybe they need me to approve and then I approve and the process continues. But if...

I see that these cannot be approved. I can say, oh, please wait. I will review and send back. And sometimes I'm giving responsibility to my regional coordinator to approve some of the decision. They say, approve it, and then you move forward. Don't wait for me.

And I'll tell you that I'm not going to the... I'm not traveling because I'm traveling. I'm traveling for the conference where we can make a decision. If you think that you are leader. And then because you see opportunity for traveling and then you go and traveling. You are traveling everywhere, Every time. No, no, no, no.

Jordan Thierry (46:09)
Right.

having fun, you know, just yeah.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (46:24)
You need to travel for strategic meeting. And then you know exactly what you want to from this meeting. So I can tell you for each meeting I'm participating what I bring from there. I can tell you one by one. This year I get this from this meeting, I get this from this meeting.

Jordan Thierry (46:44)
Yeah, that makes sense. makes perfect sense and that's great advice because I think that oftentimes executive directors, leaders of national or international organizations get into the habit of traveling, but sometimes may lose the discipline around having a very clear objective for each specific trip that they make in the meetings that they're gonna take.

And so that's a great reminder. Thank you for that. One thing I know our listeners will be curious about in 2025, this year, the United States has cut most, if not all of its federal funding for international development work and elimination of USAID underway.

How has that or do you expect that to impact the work that you're doing if at all?

Innocent Antoine Houedji (47:37)
Yeah, thank you so much. Something is very important, you know. It's also, this discussion is help other organizations to learn from us. The first thing, you know, these funding issues create a lot of problems to many, many, many organizations and NGOs across the world.

We have not affected a lot. We have only one project in Somalia that has been affected. But the rest, don't have any. I think some of our partners have these issues

and it affects us a little bit. But we continue to survive because we have a large database of partners who are working with us. That is one of the great opportunities. Even if we have only one or two partners and then they cut their funding, you see, we will collapse.

Jordan Thierry (48:29)
Yeah.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (48:30)
But now we have a different kind of Those partners who get the fund from European Union or those who are getting from UK. Those who are getting, it's not US funding. So sometimes it helps us to not suffer like everybody. So one thing that I need to tell today,

Jordan Thierry (48:30)
Yeah.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (48:52)
the organization leaders is make sure that you do what we call risk assessment of your organization. So if you do your risk assessment, it will help you.

to avoid these kind of issues in the future. We have these risk assessments a long time ago and these risk assessments help us to have the diversity of partners because we know that the diversity of partners help us to avoid this kind of funding cut.

Jordan Thierry (49:22)
Yeah.

Innocent Antoine Houedji (49:21)
So

it's quite important to have your risk assessment document so that you can know how to mitigate that one. Every day you are leading, every day you are implementing the project. Even if for your project, each project you need to do the risk assessment so that you know how to manage it.

think the small small NGO who get a lot of issues because of these issues, they don't have a risk assessment at the beginning. ⁓

Jordan Thierry (49:57)
Yeah.

Too many organizations are too heavily reliant on just a small base of donors, right? And that, like you said, that creates a lot of risk because if those donors go away, they'll collapse. And so it's important to have a broad base of support of both institutional, non-government organizations and

private donors, private individuals that also contribute. And that's something that I'm really interested in learning more about how organizations are managing that some of the federal government funding cuts that are underway and impacting folks, both in the US and internationally, as we discussed. So thank you for sharing those really important insights.

I wanna, you know, I'd love to keep talking with you. There's so much more I wanna learn about land governance and how land is managed and some of the strategies you're doing to lobby and advocate at the national and African Union, international levels in Africa. So maybe we'll have to do a part two of this interview, but I think, you know, this is a really good point to wrap up. It's been.

really fascinating ⁓ speaking with you and learning about the important work that you're doing. How can people who want to learn more or get involved or support the youth initiative for land in Africa, how can they go about doing that? What's the best way?

Innocent Antoine Houedji (51:27)
Thank you so much. The best way to be part of Youth Initiative for Land in Africa, you just write to us on our email. [e-mail] . So you write to us. simple. [e-mail] .

you write to us and then you request to become members of our organization. And then the membership department can send you the details about the process, the different membership form that you want to, you will fill the process so you will get out of that. That is the first thing. And the second thing that you need to know

don't think that you come in YILAA to get what think about you are coming to bring something. So you contribute. So sometimes when we are coming into the organization like YILAA, people are expecting to bring, to get something and go back.

We have changed the narrative and said, if you want to join us, think that what do you want to contribute?

If you contribute well, you will get a lot because we have a lot of opportunities for conferences, opportunities of scholarship for your studies, opportunities for being part of the project and get some...

some salaries and whatever, get opportunity to network with many other young people across the continent or outside of the continent. So it can create a new job, create a network, create a scholarship if you want to study.

and also build your capacity and your competencies. So, YILAA is a learning hub for many young people across the continent. Thank

Jordan Thierry (53:20)
you so much for coming on the podcast. It's been great speaking with And I know our listeners certainly learned a lot about leadership and in the international context and about some land issues in Africa. So thank you so much for coming on the podcast and have a great rest of week.