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This week is episode three of a four-week series on boundaries within youth mentoring relationships. Join Beth and Stephen as they talk through the practicals of who, when, and why boundaries should be set in your mentoring relationship as well as your role in setting those boundaries.
Show Notes
This week is episode three of a four-week series on boundaries within youth mentoring relationships. Join Beth and Stephen as they talk through the practicals of who, when, and why boundaries should be set in your mentoring relationship as well as your role in setting those boundaries.
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to, you can mentor. We are continuing our boundary series today. I'm your host, Beth Winter, with my co host, Stephen Murray.
Speaker 3:Hello. I love you're so very light this morning. It's like a pancake.
Speaker 2:I feel like pancakes are bent.
Speaker 3:It depends how they're made. But
Speaker 2:Like, compared to a waffle, a pancake is
Speaker 3:Almost like a waffle, Beth. It's very light.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 3:I like it. It's joyful.
Speaker 2:I had coffee.
Speaker 3:Hey. Coffee will do thanks to you.
Speaker 2:Really?
Speaker 3:Beth and I have been having a altercation. I don't know if there's an a better way to put it about my coffee consumption and whether I am addicted or not. And she has just now brought it to the forefront.
Speaker 2:Steven is learning how to set boundaries with his coffee consumption.
Speaker 3:That is a great segue into our conversation today, Beth. What are we talking about?
Speaker 2:We are on episode 3 of our boundaries series. Today, we are talking about your role in boundary setting. Last time we left off on the warning signs of boundary issues. It's been a minute since we recorded that episode. Steven, have you seen any any examples recently of, oh, that would have been a good example to give on that episode?
Speaker 3:Signs that I have a boundary issue.
Speaker 4:Or it doesn't have to be your personal
Speaker 2:issue. It's just because I was thinking about this because the other day I was at my apartment, and I can hear people playing tennis outside from my bedroom.
Speaker 3:That is not tennis. I've seen it. It is like paddle
Speaker 2:Okay. That's pickleball. Pickleball. That is what the the older A
Speaker 3:bunch of old ladies.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yes. They're sweet, though. They invited me to play with them. But this was a dad and his 2 kids, and I was, like, getting triggered listening to this dad play tennis outside with his 2 kids because his kid was, like, small.
Speaker 2:He was probably, like, 4. The tennis racket was bigger than him, but he was getting very, very frustrated with his kid and was just, like, losing his cool because he's out there, like, yelling at his kid, like, to hold the racket right or to follow through on a swing or whatever. And I was just like listening to all of this, trying to just chill in my room. And I was like, man, this dude really needs to take a step back and, like, consider, is this what you wanted today to look like? I don't imagine you started teaching your kids how to play tennis because you wanted to yell at them.
Speaker 2:What was the goal here? And maybe needing to reset some expectations and figure out, maybe today, maybe I had a bad day at work. Maybe this isn't the best day to try and come teach my 4 year old how to play tennis.
Speaker 3:Which was one of our signs that you may have a boundary issue, that you're making decisions that you're not proud of.
Speaker 2:Yes. Exactly. Yep.
Speaker 3:Man. Yeah. I think that's a great example. It reminds me of our conversation about the father of the Ball brothers.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. LaVar Ball. And the The Ball boys.
Speaker 3:Is that what they're called, the Ball boys? I am not well versed in father Ball and all all of the things that he's notorious for or otherwise. I know that there's some kind of reality TV show. Mhmm. It's like the Kardashians, but it's with these basketball players.
Speaker 3:But would you say that he has a boundary issue? Or I feel like he really cares about his boys. He really pushes them hard. Mhmm. So what what's your hot take, Beth?
Speaker 2:A lot of people think he does have a boundary issue because they kinda see him as living vicariously through his kids and, like, not really giving them an option to go live their own life. Like, he kinda has this path set out for them and it's like, this is what you're gonna do, period. Like, no arguing. But I think I think there's a a belief, the best approach to what he's been doing. And does he have some boundary issues?
Speaker 2:Probably because his sons are full grown men and need to make their own choices. But you can believe the best in that. I think he just wants the best for his kids.
Speaker 3:So that's your hot take. You think he's a good dad?
Speaker 2:I think he is a dad doing his best.
Speaker 3:Fair. So when it comes to today's conversation, we're talking about our role in setting boundaries. What where are we starting today, Beth?
Speaker 2:Well, I think the most important question to answer is whose job is it to set the boundary? When you're coming in, you've got your kid, you've got the mentor, you've got the mom. Whose job is it to set the boundary? What do you think about that?
Speaker 3:Well, it has to be the adult.
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Because kids kids are the ones that will draw anywhere on the paper. They will
Speaker 2:Some adults will ask
Speaker 3:you. Street. They and they'll do things that are inappropriate because they don't know that they're inappropriate. We have to be the ones that provide structure and provide the boundaries necessary for them to keep living much less have healthy relationships. So yeah, it has to be the adult in the room.
Speaker 3:And so even for a mental relationship, you can't depend upon mom setting boundaries for your mental relationship. You have to set those boundaries for your relationship. It can't just hinge upon what, what mom says about what the kids should do when they're interacting with you. It has to be from you because the kid's not always going to do what their mom says.
Speaker 2:And mom's not usually there hanging out while y'all are hanging out. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yes. She should be involved, but she's probably not present
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:During all of your interactions.
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think the place we would start is that the mentor is the initiator of the boundaries. They are the gatekeeper of the boundaries and it has to start with you. And so if you, from the last episode, realized that there are boundary issues in my relationship, This is like a humility moment of accepting that, seeing that, but also knowing, okay, what am I gonna do? What is my next step?
Speaker 2:Because this is on me to resolve. And so our hope with this episode is to just give you some practical things to think through and maybe give you a step forward in setting boundaries or reestablishing ones that maybe have gotten a little gray in the last few months or so.
Speaker 3:Awesome.
Speaker 2:Let's start with your boundaries as the mentor. Steven? I thought
Speaker 3:I keep thinking because you're looking at me. You're talking about my my boundaries. Okay.
Speaker 2:Are are you feeling like is there something you need to confess here? Shot's fired. This isn't about you, Steven. I promise.
Speaker 3:You keep telling me to decenter myself, and I think that's probably true. So
Speaker 2:Well but also there's probably areas all the time that we're like, well, this boundary has gotten a little it's it's it's a hedge, not a wall. You know, we've talked about that recently. So Mhmm. I don't know that recently. So Mhmm.
Speaker 4:I
Speaker 2:don't know that
Speaker 4:every boundary is always gonna be once you set it once, it's like, oh, I did that and I'm done. I think there's always
Speaker 2:gonna be ones that gotta kinda mend or tend to. Continually go back to. Yeah. Mhmm. That's good.
Speaker 2:So some boundaries that we've thought of of just important questions to think about as especially you're starting a mentor relationship. The first one that I thought of is what kind of access should your mentee have to you is a good question to think about. Do they get to come into your home? Do they get to call you whenever they want? Do they get to text you?
Speaker 2:Do you know, things like that. How often should they expect to see you? So what kind of time commitment are you able to establish? What will y'all do together? So I know some men mentors, you know, they're they just have a greater time capacity.
Speaker 2:And so maybe their level of mentorship is showing up at every football game every weekend or coming every single week to program. And other mentors, it may be maybe they're in a season where they can't commit to that same amount. But I think giving intentionality and plan around what we'll do when we are together and then clearly laying out this is what I can commit to time wise is an important piece to think about.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Is it a southern thing to say like, when when you're talking to somebody and you're like, hey. Call me anytime. Like, you need something? I'm your man.
Speaker 3:Like, there I don't know if that's a southern thing or if that's just an everywhere thing.
Speaker 2:That's a good question. Because it's like, do you mean that?
Speaker 3:There's no way they mean it. But but the the the reason you say it is to, like, I'm opening myself up to you and making myself available. But in reality, if, if that person ends up calling you that night at 10:30, you're like, what did I really expect you to, like, I guess, redeem what I said. And once you get to that place, you're like, oh, okay. Maybe I'd maybe I need to start say, hey.
Speaker 3:Call me before 8. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Well, the thing I think about with that is I could see myself saying that, but in my head, it's like, yeah. You can call me anytime. I won't necessarily get back to you in the in the time frame that you think is important, but I will get back to you. So maybe it's a
Speaker 3:good distinction. You can call me anytime, but I'm probably not going to answer. And you don't have to necessarily say that, but your actions will show it.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Yeah. But that would probably be a clarifying conversation at some point, which if you have ever needed to call me, you've probably experienced that. Like, I'm not always gonna answer the phone immediately, but I'll get back to you.
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:What are some other questions that, mentors should think about boundary setting?
Speaker 3:Well, I think it goes both ways of thinking about what should they expect of you and what do you expect of them. I'm trying to think of an example where, a mentor might desire their mentee to like like in this situation, really mentorship is pursuit primarily. In in the corporate world, the expectation is that the mentees are pursuing the mentors. Yeah. In our context, it's the mentors pursuing the mentees.
Speaker 3:But at some level, you do need the the kids in the mentor relationships to have a desire to connect, to relate, to participate. And I don't know if you would call that a boundary issue of, of like a kid who it's kind of like the kids' boundary boundaries are are set up, and they're, like, more emotional. Like, I don't want the mentor to have access to me. Like, I don't wanna have this conversation, or I don't wanna talk about this. I met with somebody and I asked them about their upbringing.
Speaker 3:This this was a person at my church. I was leading a youth ministry, and I was asking them about, yeah, just where they grew up and what their experience was like. Told me about their apartment complex, and I just kept probing and asking more questions.
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And, eventually, the kid was like, I don't wanna talk about
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:My past. And I could tell that it was because there was some pain connected to Yeah. Something in their past. And it was like I had pushed so far to kinda get get into their world that I reached a point where they were like, hey, this this isn't something I wanna talk about. It's not every every day that you experience kids establishing a boundary.
Speaker 3:But when they do, I think it's very important for us to to respond appropriately
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:In respecting those boundaries.
Speaker 4:I don't know
Speaker 3:if that makes sense.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It does. I mean, as a part of our staff training every year with our coaches, one of the things in our child safety handbook, that we train them on is there are certain interactions that we don't allow with our staff, just physical interactions like full frontal hubs or sitting on laps and things like that. But then there's also always a piece of the training that's like, it's okay to give a side hug. It's okay to give high fives. It's okay to give pats on the back.
Speaker 2:But if a kid ever tells you like, hey. I don't wanna be touched. Don't force that. Like, that is a boundary that they're setting, and we have to respect that they're setting that boundary. And I think that's even more important with kids because kids only get to have so much control over their own lives.
Speaker 2:And so to give them power where we can is a way that we build trust with kids. It's a way we honor them. And so respecting the boundary that they're trying to set, because it might be just that they don't like to be touched. It might be that there's, like, serious background trauma that we don't know about of why they don't want that. But either way, it's just don't force that for the sake of, like, this is how I'm trying to bond with you, though.
Speaker 2:I'm going to make you like hugs. I'm going to make you
Speaker 3:Shake my hand.
Speaker 2:Yes. Like, there are I even think about, like, the eye contact thing. Like, I think for especially older generations, it can seem very disrespectful for a kid to not look you in the eye when he's speaking or things like that, which I there is a side of me that's like, yes. I can totally see that. There's also a side that I know that there is a couple kids in our program who have just real social anxiety that, really, it's hard for them in a deep way to in a real way to, like, make eye contact with you when they're talking.
Speaker 2:And so I think just re respecting where a kid is at and maybe the maybe it is a a boundary right now for him to, I'll talk to you, but I can't, like, I can't give you everything that you're wanting from me in this interaction yet. This is what I can give you. Do
Speaker 3:you think that would be something good for a mentor to talk to the parent guardian about of, like, hey. It seems when I do this or that that it makes your child uncomfortable. Do you have any thoughts or recommendations, or
Speaker 4:could
Speaker 3:you speak into that? Do you think that's an appropriate conversation?
Speaker 2:I would think so. I mean, I think that's when I was downstairs in program all the time, that would be a thing I would frequently do. It's just it it's not a conversation of your kid did something wrong. It's more we talk about staying curious about what's going on with the kids. And so it's it's coming to a mom and saying, like, I noticed this today, or it seems like every time we talk about this, it kinda shuts down.
Speaker 2:Is that something you're seeing at home too, or do you have any insight for us on that? So I would say so because if you're wanting a partnership, I think sometimes moms are surprised to hear what a mentor is seeing, and it can kind of clue into some of the missing pieces of maybe what they're dealing with at home even. So I think that's a great partnership move.
Speaker 3:And it probably establishes I mean, I think just in respect to the boundaries of a relationship with a parent guardian, her and her or they understanding the content of your mentor relationship, like a boundary may be for her of, like, wanting to be involved, wanting to understand what you guys are doing, what you're experiencing, how it's going, that the the more she's aware of and that you're allowing her to speak into and give feedback, I think the greater the greater chance that the relationship will will be healthy because and I don't know if that's a boundary issue per se, but if mom says, like, my expectation is that you're reporting to me, you're letting me know things that you're seeing and experiencing with my son. And when you're not doing that stuff, it feels like I'm not involved or I can't trust you. Is that a boundary issue, or is that just a communication problem?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm trying to think if this is true all the time, but I I feel like a lot of boundary issues result because of communication issues. So I think they're connected. But, I mean, yeah, I I I think that's related. Like and maybe that's just an expectation that the mentee or the mentor and the mom should set at the beginning of, like, how much go between information is is there. Like, I know when a kid goes to counseling with a licensed professional counselor, there's there's certain things
Speaker 3:Confidentiality.
Speaker 2:There's confidentiality to a certain extent between that one and minor. But, yeah, I don't know that a lot of relationships start out with a formal conversation of like, hey. This is what I'm gonna tell you about what we've talked about. This is what I'm not gonna tell you. But maybe that would be a good clarifying conversation at the front end of, mom, this is what you can expect from me as far as communication about what's going on, what I'm seeing, what we're talking about, and maybe asking the mom for trust too of of what can be kind of just not feel like a report card at the end of the day.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, I just imagine that because mentor relationships with kids involve many times a parent and caregiver that is caring for the child that you're mentoring, the mentor can be seen as invasive of the child's boundaries of probing, asking questions, and just just the even the thought of mentoring as an intervention to meet relational needs, it is kind of inserting yourself into this child's life. Yeah. And sometimes you may go further than you thought in into the relationship, into the inner workings of this kid's mind and his experience and his walk of life and to invite mom or the caregiver into what you're experiencing establishes. Hey, I may have gone deep here into your, your child's life.
Speaker 3:And I want to invite you in to get your thoughts and respect you, because I know that there may not be very many people that have gotten this far into, this child's life. And I think that that that is a very helpful practice. Maybe that's a better way to put it. In addition to this, I think establishing boundaries of what that relationship with the parent guardian looks like, what they expect of you, what you expect of them. Because a mentor relationship with a child will I mean, there's so many studies that point to a parent guardian's involvement in the mentor relationship or her support of the mentor relationship.
Speaker 3:Just her saying, I want my son to have a mentor, or I'm making a way for this mentor relationship. I'm returning phone calls. I'm asking my child about their mentor.
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Those relationships at a significant level are are more lead to more favorable outcomes. But then the the case goes like, well, how far how far does that involvement go? Is it mom is involved in going to Mickey D's with us at every mentor meeting? And she is privy to every conversation and everything that the child says, and she becomes, I don't wanna just say a gatekeeper, but but how far does her commitment extend and how how much involvement does she have in the mentor relationship? And what are the boundaries of the mentor's commitment to the parent, which I I would say in in books that I've read about mentoring, this is the area that people get the most confused.
Speaker 3:They're like, I signed up to mentor a kid. And if it's not clear that mentoring a kid also includes interaction with a parent Yeah. Because you're you're getting a a seed of trust. Like, this is the most important thing. A parent's child is their most important Yeah.
Speaker 3:Thing. So you better believe she's gonna be involved. Yes.
Speaker 2:And she should be. That's just a good mom.
Speaker 3:And so for mentoring organizations, it's probably like, we need a more like, better emphasize. Hey. You right now, like, you're not just entering into a relationship with a child. You're entering into a relationship with a family. And that's important for you to recognize.
Speaker 3:Like, set that expectation right from the the get go Yeah. So that there's no feeling of like, oh, man. This mom is just, you know, asking me questions about her child's health, and, I mean, it's just so annoying. And, like, do you realize how important this child is to her? Like
Speaker 2:It sounds silly when you're describing it like that, but I I think it has been confusing. I even think about, like, in adoption, like, some of the misaligned expectations I think some families have of of, like, they adopt a kid. I bring this kid into my family. They're my kid now. They're in this family.
Speaker 2:And some adoptive parents have had a lot of struggle when their kid is growing up and starting to wonder about their birth family. And I don't think that's something to shut down. I think it's totally realistic and expected that a a kid is always gonna be connected to their birth family. And so in a similar way, it's just when you really think about how strong family ties are, of course of course, they're gonna there's gonna be family involvement. You don't get to separate the kid from the family.
Speaker 2:Like, that's not a reality. So, yeah, moms and dads can be involved.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And so setting setting an expectation or a boundary around how much will you interact with them and not if you will interact with them, but when, if that makes sense. I think it's important to to figure out what is that rhythm of you communicating to the parent caregiver of the child you're mentoring and and vice versa. I mean, what what boundaries does she deserve in the mentor relationship? Because if you're constantly prying about her personal life or things that they're experiencing at home, eventually, it's like not very many relationships are like that
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Where you're constantly asking about the problems people are facing.
Speaker 2:I think a practice that is helpful to follow in trying to understand more about the background of the family you're mentoring with is I think sometimes it's it turns into just so informational because you're just trying to get so much information out of them. But a question that might be good to ask yourself is, would I be okay with them asking these questions to to me? Like, would I feel uncomfortable if I was having to answer this question if my kid or the mom turned around and asked me the same thing or just consistently kept kind of harping on this thing? How would it make me feel? And I also think that what comes with that is you might find a boundary for yourself and, oh, I wouldn't be comfortable answering that.
Speaker 2:And that's actually something I wanna establish is that that's an off limits topic. And then I think having more empathy for understanding why maybe that's an off limits topic for the mom or for the kid too. So I know that something that we've discovered in our process of just even enrolling families is that sometimes things that might just be a feel like a generic question to you might be a hard question for somebody else to answer based on their background. So I can even just empathize from my own life. Like, I remember going to church right after I went through my divorce, and that was, like, a very painful thing for me.
Speaker 2:It was not my choice. It wasn't expected. And then I had to fill out, like, this new member questionnaire thing. And on it, I, like, I got stuck on the marital status thing, and I was like, why are they even why do they have to know this? Like, why are they asking this?
Speaker 2:And I was just thinking about that with even, like, our families of things that might just seem informational to you. Like, it's demographics, it's surveys, it's just data that's helpful for you to know. You just don't know what might be going through the person answering that question's head, even just a simple form like that. And so I think just having empathy for understanding, like, if if something about this question I'm asking my mentee or or the mom is, I don't understand it, but, obviously, it's triggering an emotional response of some sort. They're shutting down.
Speaker 2:They're getting upset. They're tearing up. Whatever it is, just you don't have to figure it out. You don't have to get to the bottom of why they don't wanna answer that right then. You just gotta respect that maybe they don't and just leave it leave it alone for them and keep building trust.
Speaker 2:And maybe you'll get to be a part of the process of walking through that hurt, whatever the answer to that is eventually.
Speaker 3:That's good, Beth.
Speaker 2:So that's like a lot of questions you can be thinking about. And I don't think we talked about this already, but most mentoring organizations are gonna have some policies for you already established in a handbook or in a training. So if you haven't had that training or maybe it's been a long time, you've been mentoring for years and that handbook has been sitting somewhere in the back of your closet for the last 10 years, maybe pull that out, reflect on it, or contact your whoever's overseeing you and kind of maybe get a refresher on how can I reestablish the things that maybe I should have been doing or help me clarify in this season of where I'm at with my mentee how to make these boundaries a reality?
Speaker 3:Well and I I think framing it that way of we, as adults, are the ones that are establishing boundaries. Like, the the hug example is a great one. It's as a mentor, I'm asking myself, am I okay giving hugs? Can I do that in a healthy way that will promote a child's health without trying to meet my own needs for affection, but meet their needs for affection? Can I ask the child, is it okay if I give you a hug?
Speaker 3:And are you asking the parent? Hey. I I think it'd be great for your child to receive affection through hugs. Is that okay with you? Are you comfortable with that?
Speaker 3:Having all three of those things in in kind of every aspect of your relationship thinking, am I comfortable with this? Are they comfortable with this? Is the parent comfortable with this? Yeah. You being willing to have those conversations.
Speaker 3:And at any point, one of those is not okay with it. You need to not do it. So a I guess another point in this conversation is that consistency is key.
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:So if if you've established a boundary somewhere, do not find yourself at some other point in the relationship discounting that boundary or making amends or compromising. Because if you're not consistent, then you're compromising.
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Is that a good way to put it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that's just confusing for kids. Like, kids are looking for patterns to help them learn about the world and learn the lanes, learn the guardrails. So if you tell them that this is not okay, but then you allow it, it's just confusing for them. And so boundaries are helping them develop a healthy understanding of the world.
Speaker 2:And I I think about myself as a kid, and I remember there's because boundaries can change as a kid gets older too. Like, as a kid develops more, they might be able to do things that they couldn't do when they were younger, and that's a good thing. That's part of growing up. But I think I think it is helpful for you to be clear with the kid about when the boundary is changing. When I was a kid, we weren't allowed to read Harry Potter because my parents were I I think they were worried we were, like, gonna get lost in the imagination of being a witch or something.
Speaker 2:I don't know. We had big imaginations, I guess. It could happen. But yeah. So we were never allowed to read Harry Potter.
Speaker 2:And I remember one time we were on a family vacation, and we were nerds. So we always went to the library before we went on family vacations because we would all pick out books to read in the car on the drive. And my parents were reading Harry Potter, and they let my brother read Harry Potter. And I was in the like, I was angry because I was like, y'all are breaking the rules. And
Speaker 3:I can see little Beth Winter feeling that.
Speaker 2:Yes. And I felt very, like, validated in my, like, anger about you are, like, my trusted adults, and you have you have broken the rules. You're letting Daniel read Harry Potter. And it was just so confusing to me because we were told that this was a bad thing for so long. Leviosa.
Speaker 2:But truly, now I read Harry Potter and I love it. But it was very confusing for me to go from, like, this is completely off limits to, oh, yeah. That's fine now without there ever being, like, a a conversation.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. I I I think for our for our mentors, something that can be confusing is you you establish a boundary that I'm not buying you things, and then you make an exception and you buy them some things. And then the next time you go to the store, you say, oh, I don't buy you things. And it's like, well, you you you did you did buy me things.
Speaker 3:And so, like, being clear about what your boundaries are like, and and maybe you shouldn't say I don't buy you things. Maybe maybe you need to say not today or actually set a realistic boundary on, I will buy you food. I don't buy you toys outside of your birthday or something like that to where you're you're pointing them in the direction of what you will do and what you won't do, not just that you don't do something. I I think that's that's helpful. And even if it's just, I don't feel, I don't feel like I'm supposed to do that right now.
Speaker 3:Maybe that's the best thing to say to not set yourself up to be inconsistent a month from now when you decide, you know what? I do wanna buy them that helmet or or whatever. I think it's always great. Again, you mentioned your mentoring program. Most mentors are, I guess, listening to this podcast are in a formal mentor relationship.
Speaker 3:That's being overseen by an organization. They will have a lot of boundaries they'll ask you to be consistent on and not compromise on. So ask them to clarify what those things are. What else, Beth?
Speaker 2:So another piece, and we kind of hit on this a little bit already, but just making sure that you and the parent are on the same page and communicate often, which we did discuss before. But I think it's just worth reevaluating and going a little bit more into depth on because this isn't just you and the kid. And this mom is the one who probably or this dad reached out, wanted their kid in this program. And so there's definitely gonna be expectations on their end of what they hope this would be, how they hope this would impact their family. And I think there's a what's the quote that's like, unspoken expectations always leads to frustration?
Speaker 3:All frustration.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Comes from unmet or unspoken expectations. That's probably it. That sounds right. But
Speaker 3:All frustration comes from unmet expectations.
Speaker 2:Yes. That's it. So, yeah, just communicating often with and upfront and clearly. Clear, often, kindly. You don't have to be mean to set an expectation.
Speaker 2:You just, have to be firm.
Speaker 3:I don't know if this is related to boundaries, but just the expectation of making a rhythm of communication, taking initiative is necessary in all relationships. If I'm just sitting here bitter about my best friend, not texting me, I'm better off initiating and saying, Hey, I wanna hang out. There has to be a level of you reach a point where you're like, you know what I need to pursue, I need to be the pursuer in this situation. I need to take initiative in for, for mentors being the one that sets the boundaries, that sets expectations, that that pursues, that is the lane that, that we need to stay in and not expect someone else to make communication better. Or I think that is something that we just have to take ownership over.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Yeah. And I think you just have to have the perspective of like, I think both the mentor and the parent, they want this thing to work. And so why not get on the same page? Like, what are you gonna lose by and what are you gonna lose by talking to them instead of just keeping those things in your head?
Speaker 2:You're gonna have a better game plan if there's consistency between what happens when you pick up the kid and you're hanging out with him versus what mom is saying at home. Because if if there's a miscommunication of what you're there to do between you and the parent, that miscommunication might be being reinforced unintentionally by the parent if you guys aren't on the same
Speaker 3:page about what you're there to do. Yeah. Beth, this may be I I don't know if you're gonna agree with this next statement, so please let me know.
Speaker 2:Oh, boy.
Speaker 3:If I'm a mentor who's establishing a boundary that says, I want the relationship to be like this, this, this, this, this, and to say, you know what, we're going to meet at this time and we're going to have these conversations and then we're going to part ways and we're going to do it next week. And like, like they want this pinpoint structure, how it's going to be in. And I would say in some parts, that's like healthy boundaries, like having, trying to set really clear expectations and not wanting to waiver from those. Is there is there at any point you would make a recommendation? Hey.
Speaker 3:It seems like you'd be better off serving in a youth group than in a mentor relationship with a kid from a hard place. Because inevitably signing up for a mentor relationship may not, be as clear cut. I don't know. The expectations may may not be what you think. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like, it it would you ever make that recommendation? Hey. It sounds like you would be great in a youth group that meets once a week and that it's clear what the expectations are. You show up and you leave, and that's what it is. Like, would would you ever say make that distinction based off of what a a mentor's expectations are?
Speaker 2:I I think I would. So I actually would not disagree with you on that, Steven.
Speaker 3:Does that mean we're looking for people who are horrible at boundaries? No.
Speaker 2:Well, I think the first thing I would recommend in that is just sitting down with the mentor and maybe having a conversation about there's gonna be some compromise in this because these are relationships with people, and they have their own expectations. They have their own lives. They have their own schedules. And so, yeah, it's it's not like scheduling a Walmart pickup and you put in the time that you want to be there. You know exactly how much you're paying when you get there.
Speaker 2:You know exactly what's in your cart. Like, that's not how relationships work. Like, they're, they are fluid. And so I think setting a plan
Speaker 4:is a good thing, but being so rigid and uncompromising is not setting you up for success
Speaker 2:for realistic of what relationships look like. Like, I'm sure even in you becoming a parent, there's probably, like, expectations that you thought you could have of what it would look like to be like, Ben's gonna go to sleep at this time. We're gonna get this much many date nights in a month or what. Like, there's probably some expectations you thought you could establish that since in the last year you've learned, okay. It is not that simple.
Speaker 2:Ben is a little human who has his own way of walking through the world, and we've got to compromise and figure out a game plan here where we have a successful relationship.
Speaker 3:I think I think that is probably the most helpful thing I've heard on this podcast series. And sorry for everything else that you've shared. That's been great. But just in my mind, I'm like, I can't imagine a mental relationship without boundaries being encroached upon and the difficulty that comes with trying to reestablish those or have the conversation. And that's just relationships.
Speaker 3:Relationships in general are always going to have boundaries being encroached upon
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And trying to figure out and navigate how do we how are we going to respond?
Speaker 4:Are
Speaker 3:we just gonna run away? Or are we going to have the conversation and try and work it out and not just expect there to be this is this is mine, this is yours, this is theirs. And if everybody shakes hands, and as soon as you don't do your job, then my contract is null and void
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Or or whatever. That's not what we're going for.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:But anytime I talk about boundaries, that's what it feels like to me, and I know that's not what what we're what we're saying. And so the expectation is, hey, mentor, your boundaries are gonna be encroached upon.
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:It's gonna suck. Mhmm. And you're gonna have to respond and fight for health.
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:You're gonna have to navigate difficult conversations. Good luck. That's kinda what we're saying.
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And you know what? It's gonna make you a better spouse and a better parent and a better coworker and a better boss and all the things because this is gonna be true of any relationship anywhere. Like, you're gonna have to figure out boundaries with your roommate or, you know, whoever it is, your parents. Whether you're in the house or a grown 50 year old man, you're still probably figuring those out. So this is just life in general.
Speaker 2:Boundaries are a part of every relationship.
Speaker 4:Mhmm. It's
Speaker 3:good. The last comment on the docket for today's episode is talking about making apologies. Apologize when you cross a boundary. Help others understand when they cross one of your boundaries. That's probably both of those are difficult to do.
Speaker 3:On one end, you have to take ownership that or acknowledge that you crossed a boundary.
Speaker 4:Mhmm. And
Speaker 3:then the others, you have to acknowledge that you had a boundary crossed, which can feel, I don't know, just for me, I can get walked over fairly simply and not say anything about it and just get over it.
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:But if it happens repeatedly repeatedly, then I may get angry or frustrated and then either wanna quit or express that a year later. And someone's like, well, what the heck? Like, I did I didn't know that's how you felt about it. I would've I would've done something differently. I don't know what where you land on that, Beth.
Speaker 2:Probably too far on the other end.
Speaker 3:I feel like if I offend you within 30 seconds, you've you've come to me. Hey. When you said that 30 seconds ago, this is how it made me feel.
Speaker 2:I definitely take a proactive approach to dealing with conflict. So which is something I have learned to do because I know myself very well. I know my emotions very well, and it's gonna be better for our relationship if I just come and figure it out with you now than if I sit on it for a long time, And it just comes out unexpectedly in an explosion later. So
Speaker 3:Or within kind of, microaggressions or something.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's better to just deal with it, get out of the way because it's gonna be smaller if you deal with it at the start versus if you let it fester. Something that's gonna like, it might be a small thing that your mentee does that really bothers you. Like, you've mentioned before, I think a few times actually about the your mentee being late.
Speaker 3:I'm bitter. I was about to say
Speaker 2:But, like, if you addressed that when it was still fresh, like, it doesn't have the opportunity to become a bigger thing than it really had to be. And so that's why I take proactive approach because I'm just like, hey. Right now, this is a pin drop, but it could turn into more if I don't deal with this now. And I care about you enough to address this now because I want us to have a good relationship. And I wanna keep showing up and being excited that you walk into the room.
Speaker 2:I don't want it to turn into every time you walk into the room, I'm, like, bracing myself for, like, here we go. You know? So that's my approach on it. But, again, I'm maybe I'm a little too jump
Speaker 3:the gun. Well and I know I know I have been historically late to many things, so I probably have no authority to, to speak into situations where people are late meeting with me. And I think in a way it gives me empathy, but that does not mean that I can't address it and say how it makes me feel. Even if it's an issue that I have in my own personal life, which rarely will there be something that we give people feedback on that we're not Yeah. Experiencing ourselves in some way.
Speaker 3:We're I mean, it's like a pastor preaching on reading the Bible and telling everyone to read the Bible more. You know that that pastor also feels that same thing of, man, I just I need the word. I need to be in it more. I need to stop being a scrub. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Like scrub. And and so I I've seen it come out, like, in in, like, side comments where, like, oh, man. You showed up on time to this meeting. What that person is communicating is that on a consistent basis, you have not shown up on time, and I am subtly letting you know that through me honoring you for finally doing what I thought you should have done on a regular basis. I don't know if if anyone's ever made a comment like that to you, but But when I hear that, I hear their feedback for all of the other times that I've disappointed them.
Speaker 3:That makes sense?
Speaker 2:It does. But I would say that's, I believe, the best moment because maybe they just like, maybe they it wasn't supposed to be this passive aggressive thing. Maybe it was just a comment that came out. But
Speaker 3:Oh, no. It was all Okay. It was poking fun. People poke fun.
Speaker 2:That's probably true. That's probably true. But, anyway, apologizing, Kids need to be apologized to when the when their boundaries are stepped on. Moms more
Speaker 3:of just saying that when your kid shows up late to a meeting, don't say, oh, wow. Or when they show up on time, don't say, oh, wow. You showed up on time. Like, that's great. Maybe maybe that is hinting at maybe you should have given them feedback about showing up late last time.
Speaker 3:That's what I'm
Speaker 2:saying. Direct. Yeah. That's good. Get that.
Speaker 3:The guideline that we want you to take away from this episode is this, you will have to live with whatever you allow. Thanks for listening to the You Come Mentor podcast. This is part 3 of a boundary series, so be sure to come back for part 4 next week.
Speaker 2:Please share this episode with somebody that you wanna talk about it with. Who is somebody that you know who does boundaries well? Who could you ask advice from share this episode with to get better together, always be growing?
Speaker 3:Come on. And if there's one thing you took away from today's podcast, let it be this. You can make
Speaker 4:it.