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The Hamilton Centre Podcast | Exploring Mental Health & Addiction is for service providers, individuals and family members dealing with co-occurring mental health and substance use conditions. In response to the recommendation of the Royal Commission into Victoria's Mental Health System (2021), the Centre was established to create a more inclusive and supportive system by promoting integrated care in Victoria, Australia.
Our podcast will feature interviews with service providers, individuals with lived experience, and workers who assist people with co-occurring conditions. We aim to promote holistic care throughout Victoria by breaking down barriers to treatment and through open minds and open doors.
This series features Gemma Turvey's composition, "Turquoise," performed by Gemma on piano, Craig Beard on vibraphone, and the talented musicians of the New Palm Court Orchestra.
Welcome to the Hamilton Centre podcast, a space where we explore the thinking of leaders, service providers, workers and people with living and lived experience shaping the landscape of integrated care in mental health and addiction services in Victoria. I'm Annie Williams, Hamilton Centre relationship and partnership lead and your host today. The Hamilton Centre acknowledges with deep respect all First Nations people and traditional owner groups within Victoria. We extend that respect to the traditional owners of the land on which this episode is recorded, the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Kulin nation, and pay our respects to elders past and present and acknowledge their unceded connection to land, sea and sky. Hamilton Centre recognizes people with lived and living experience of mental ill health, alcohol and other drug issues, and of recovery and the experience of people who have been the carers, families or supporters of people with co occurring issues as their experiences help us shape services that are safe, accessible and inclusive.
Annie Williams:In today's episode, I'm excited to have a conversation with two passionate advocates from the Youth Support and Advocacy Service YSAS. Welcome, Nathan Abaloz, a youth peer advocate with YSAS who is passionate about supporting and advocating for young people to have the best possible future, especially those who are marginalized. Nathan works with the YSAS Youth Advisory Committee known as the Crew, which consists of a diverse group of young people sharing their lived and living experience and their expertise to help shape and improve services and policy. Nathan's area of interest includes harm reduction, destigmatisation, youth justice and reforms. And I'd also like to welcome Donna Ortiz.
Annie Williams:Donna is a parent and carer with lived experience supporting young people through mental health and substance use challenges. Donna became involved with YSAS in 2021 when her youngest son engaged with their services during COVID. Donna now contributes to the YSAS Family Reference Group, a small team of parent carers and staff working to provide feedback and improve services for families. She is passionate about giving back and helping shape how YSAS supports young people and their families. Thank you both for being here today.
Annie Williams:Before we begin our broader conversation, Donald will share a statement that explains the model sitting at the forefront of the services that YSAS offers.
Donna Ortiz:YSAS uses a resilience based model. Resilience is the capacity of young people, families and communities to cope with, overcome and even be strengthened by adversity. YSAS offers and opportunities that enable people to meet their needs in ways that matter to them. YSAS practice is informed by the voices of young people, their loved ones and communities and recognises that the wisdoms of these voices serve to help others.
Annie Williams:Thanks, Donna. Nathan, if I start with you, can you tell us about your work with the crew and how it contributes towards this youth advocacy?
Nathan Abaloz:Yeah. So I think the most general way to describe the crew is using our lived lived and living experience to help improve the service, but that can involve a range of different things. We do practice certain trainings like child safety training, naloxone training, and so on. I've worked on things from as simple as, like, flyers to help get the word out there about the crew or certain YSAS services, but also, like, presenting reports and being a part of approving reports, especially towards the board and the youth participation team. There's a lot that we kind of do within it, so it's hard to encapsulate that.
Nathan Abaloz:But the most broad term is, yeah, to improve the service.
Annie Williams:In your introduction, you specifically made reference to marginalised groups of youth. I'm curious about your advocacy in this area. Can you talk about this and perhaps explain some of the barriers that these groups may experience?
Nathan Abaloz:Yeah. So it does it can range from, you know, case to case, culture to culture. I think it's very important to have feedback from different, like, peoples, cultures, and intersectionalities Sure. To get a more broad understanding of what each person needs. Mhmm.
Nathan Abaloz:So I would say, for example, when it comes to advocating for, like, First Nations group, YSAS preferred prefers working with the First Nations organization in particular, which I really appreciate and that kind of goes for all types of cultures to a certain extent.
Annie Williams:So culturally appropriate care?
Nathan Abaloz:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It can also you know, I think the biggest most common thing is stigma. Stigma is a big preventer for AOD, mental health, homelessness, sex work, whatever it may So
Annie Williams:if you think about your journey so far, what feels most important to share?
Nathan Abaloz:It's a really, really hard question. I I It's hard to boil down something that's most important.
Annie Williams:Right.
Nathan Abaloz:But I think what's most important is the acknowledgement that people don't get to these conclusions whether it be at their worst or their best without understanding of what got them there without Yes. The right type of
Annie Williams:Fantastic. If we if we think about the resilience model that YSAS uses that Donna introduced, what strengths did you discover in yourself over this time, even if you might not have seen them as strengths at the time?
Nathan Abaloz:Well, I think the acknowledgement that, you know, being a substance user or someone who's experienced substance misuse within their life
Donna Ortiz:Mhmm.
Nathan Abaloz:Isn't a bad thing in itself. There's so many different models that people can approach. Some people feel, like, more comfortable with abstinence, and then others prefer harm reduction.
Donna Ortiz:Mhmm.
Nathan Abaloz:I personally got to where I am today through harm reduction. Mhmm. Mhmm. And that's probably my favorite type of field when it comes to AOD Mhmm. Because it kind of gets rid of the stigma that you're a quote unquote bad person for using drugs.
Nathan Abaloz:And there are many people who use substances or alcohol, and it's not a bad thing. I think the perfect example is the acceptance of alcohol over drugs.
Annie Williams:Yes.
Nathan Abaloz:Yes. And so, you know, I think a resilience model is a good way to kinda tell people that if you lapse, relapse, or if it takes you longer than you thought to get to a certain point, that's not a bad thing. It's a part of the journey. I think my favorite term is like the kinda one size doesn't fit all. It's not addiction isn't linear.
Annie Williams:Yeah. Yeah. So that confidence and that knowledge about the fact that you're not broken, you're you're having, you know, there's an experience to learn from. Is that what you take with you with into your work with YSS?
Nathan Abaloz:Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it's a very important thing to teach people in general, but especially young people. Especially because a lot of young people, because of media or or family or stigma Mhmm.
Nathan Abaloz:Feel like that there's something wrong. And the you know, you're not gonna be able to take another step forward if you're constantly thinking about the past steps you have taken. It's kinda like one step back, two step forwards in a way. Yeah. So, yeah, I definitely have used that in my advocacy and when I have worked with young people one on one because there's so much inherent guilt and shame and regret in these people's lives that isn't going to help them get out of the spot that they're in.
Annie Williams:So it's important to share that confidence.
Nathan Abaloz:Absolutely.
Annie Williams:Donna, you're involved with the YSAS Family Reference Group. Can you tell us about the ways that this group is helping to shape practice and policies?
Donna Ortiz:Yes, sure. So I became involved with YSAS Family Reference Group probably about three years ago now. At the time, it was it was three parents or family supporters with one youth worker. And the idea of the reference group was to find ways for YSAS to be able to better support the family who support young people who use their services.
Annie Williams:Yeah.
Donna Ortiz:We've we've grown a bit since then. We've recently added some new other family members and another youth worker in, and we're coming up with resources and other ways that YSAS can support those family to support the young person because the young person themselves, a lot of the time, they can't do it on their own. And and as a as a family supporter of a young person, we often don't know where we can find resources or or find ways to be able to help the person that we're trying to help. And so I think YSS saw that there was a bit of a gap in their support service. Yeah.
Donna Ortiz:And they're trying to improve that.
Annie Williams:And I'm just interested, what did resilience look like for you on really difficult days?
Donna Ortiz:That's a tough question. Resilience is it's different for everybody. I think the hardest thing as a parent or as a family supporter is having hope and being able to just take it day by day. And as Nathan mentioned about stigma and around, you know, community or the world's the view that they have on people who have addiction especially and mental health, but I wanna say issues, it can be really, really difficult to to have anyone to speak to or there's the isolation that you can feel. And and so just to have that that inner personal resilience just to get up each day and put one foot in front of the other, it's tough.
Donna Ortiz:Really like energy. Absolutely. Yeah.
Annie Williams:And how has that helped you sort of shape or influence your role now with the Family Reference Group?
Donna Ortiz:I think with the family reference group, what I found that is unique is that while every single family situation is different, whether it's religion, culture, the family dynamic, how many children, whether it's a single parent or two parents. Every family dynamic is very, very different. But coming together, we've been able to see the similarities that we all face around, as I said, the isolation, you know, the things that we say we're going through day by day. While every family dynamic is different, a lot of the stuff that we deal with is the same. So there are themes.
Donna Ortiz:Absolutely. And it's I sort of feel like an old hand now that I've been doing this for quite a number of years and with bringing in a few new family carers recently, it was like being back there at day one listening to them because they're in the thick of it right now. They're having they're going through it with their young person. And whilst I'm in a fortunate situation that my young person is thriving right now, a number of years ago when he wasn't, did feel exactly like they did. And while my family dynamic is very, very different to their family dynamic, the similarities that you go through as a family carer, yeah, especially that isolation and not knowing where to find resources and supports.
Annie Williams:So you can bring them along
Donna Ortiz:with Yeah. And being able to share what you've been through and and offer that hope and resilience. You know, I'm I'm very fortunate my young person is doing really well now, and there were a lot of times when, you know, as a parent, I felt like I may not ever get there. So having that hope and resilience was able I was able to I'm able now to share that with other other people who may be really in the thick of it right now.
Annie Williams:Yes. Beautiful. Nathan, can I just go back to your point around stigma and just to ask you a little bit more about how stigma or maybe labels impact young people experiencing mental health or AOD issues? And is language part of that? Does it create barriers for young people to seek?
Nathan Abaloz:It definitely does, Annie. And I think the interesting thing about language surrounding, like, inclusive language surrounding AOD or mental health is it's constantly evolving. We're constantly finding new ways to approach how to say things in a way that doesn't insinuate or have stigma in itself. I think a good example is like the word addiction itself doesn't insinuate anything bad, but societally and the context that we have now over the years of how it's been used does. And that's why it's always evolving, like and I think another interesting thing is it is it, you know, as I said, it's it's case by case.
Nathan Abaloz:There are some young people that I've dealt with who prefer some of the old school language because new inclusive language feels too formal and they have, you know, bad experiences with certain services that use that language.
Donna Ortiz:Okay.
Nathan Abaloz:There are some young people who prefer to still say chunky because they kind of feel like they've they're owning it back and they're reshaping what that means to themselves. As I said, it's it's constantly evolving. If you look at different medical websites and AOD websites, they have their own pages on what to use and what not to use. That's right. And, yeah, I think it's just I think in a formal setting and as a general practice, you should always try to keep updated with what is the best type of language.
Nathan Abaloz:But when it's case by case, it's just as important to find out what that young person needs. There are definitely barriers in how you say something. Like, my partner, for example, she, you know, she doesn't like it when organizations refer to children who have experienced government care. She doesn't like when they say child protection kits because she feels like it defines them based off of their care instead of them as an individual. And there's many examples with that, same as with mental health.
Nathan Abaloz:There's so much stigma surrounding, you know, borderline personality disorder and OCD. There's a lot of misunderstandings on what that's like. And so I think it's important to, like, educate on what right language to use and to educate what these terms actually
Annie Williams:mean. So in your experience, what made you feel supported and feel heard?
Nathan Abaloz:I think the right types of people working at certain services like needle exchanges or safe injecting brooms, the way that they make you feel like you're not I feel like a lot of people, I know I did, felt ashamed when I had to pick up safe equipment
Annie Williams:Yes.
Nathan Abaloz:Even though it's a necessity. Yes. But the, you know, people working at those services are usually extremely friendly and make you feel a lot more comfortable and in fact, reward you by saying, this is good that you've done this. Like, this is the right thing to do. So those are examples where language and stigma and people have made me feel more appropriate to be doing these things that typically are looked down upon.
Annie Williams:And gave you agency? Yeah. Own care, yeah. So to someone who is feeling that stigma and feeling ashamed, that's what you would share with them that some of these agencies are actually positive?
Nathan Abaloz:Yeah. I usually say to them that and it's easier said than done. I think that's the biggest thing is you can say to someone a million times that you shouldn't feel ashamed, but they'll still feel ashamed. Mhmm. But just reassuring them that when they do get that help, they're not gonna be judged for it.
Nathan Abaloz:And that not only is it these people's jobs, but a lot of these people have been through this themselves. Sure. And that's the biggest thing I hear from young people is it's so important to have lived and living experience workers. Mhmm. I know even myself, you can tell when someone has actually lived through that or someone is just done a course.
Donna Ortiz:I think that can also be as a parent as well. Mhmm. Well, we're not trained professionals. When we're confronted with, you know, a young person engaging in risky behavior or doing things that we wouldn't we wouldn't think are normal behavior.
Annie Williams:Mhmm.
Donna Ortiz:It can be quite confronting for the parent as well to be and that's one of the things that we're trying to do with our family reference group is to give some information to parents or carers around that nonjudgmental and providing that support rather than going, you know, with boundaries and consequences. Yes. Yes. And so, yeah, just providing our experience around how we've managed situations with our young people. I think it's very it's a similar situation.
Donna Ortiz:I think the relationship you can have with a young person can shape how their future well, while they may still go through what they're going through, it it may not be, you know, as severe or as bad if you can manage a relationship with them. And sometimes that's possible. It'll shape
Annie Williams:the outcome. Correct. Yeah. I think
Nathan Abaloz:that's a great point, Donna. So
Annie Williams:from a parent's point of view, did stigma play a role in how safe you felt to speak up? Absolutely. I think
Donna Ortiz:the biggest thing, and I've mentioned it a couple of times, is that isolation. And as I was just saying, when you are presented with situations where you don't know what to do, it's really hard to find support. Some of the conversations that you're having with a young person, you can't then have that conversation with a friend or a family member or or a colleague at work about, well, you know, this is what I'm experiencing at home. And the stigma around I have a young person that's engaging in risky behavior or drug use criminal activity or whatever it might be Yeah. You don't wanna be sharing that information because you don't wanna be judged as a parent, but you also don't want your young person to be judged or or placed in a box or Yeah.
Donna Ortiz:You know, treated differently Yeah. Because they're they're going through with what they're going through. And, yeah, the stigma and the other thing that we talk about, too, is about what does success look like as well, which can also be part of stigma and judgment. You know, success looks very different for everybody. But if you look at a young person now, you know, finishing year 12 and going on to uni or getting a a trade or what they're they're what we define as success.
Donna Ortiz:Success for a parent who's having a young person that's having addiction or AOD and mental health issues can look very differently. I know the day my son turned 18, I took a deep breath and just thought because I didn't think I was going to get there. And to me, that's success. Just the fact that he's still here with us, that's success. So my success looks very, very different to what other people's success can look like.
Annie Williams:And I think a really important message to parents who may be experiencing something similar that it's a unique experience and that, yes, being defined by the societal norms.
Donna Ortiz:Absolutely. Yep. But I think that can go for for any you know, it doesn't necessarily have to be addiction or mental health. It could be autism or Mhmm. You know, success is very different for everyone.
Donna Ortiz:Yep. Some kids like succeed in sports, some in arts, some in education. And I think society has a big part to play in in removing that stigma around that. And I think we've moved forward as
Nathan Abaloz:a
Donna Ortiz:society towards that, but I think we've got a long way to go before we can really remove that judgment and just accept that, you know, everyone's journey is their own journey and it's individual. That's where I'd like society to get to, to a place where we're free of that stigma and judgement and that people are free to make the choices that they want to make with the support of the community. And what supports were available to you and what made a difference? When our journey began, the hardest thing I found as a parent is while there are some services available to support young people, my the biggest thing that I came across or the biggest hurdle or barrier that I was facing was my young person engaging.
Annie Williams:Mhmm.
Donna Ortiz:He wasn't really interested in going to any of the services, and I was, like, scrambling like a crazy person trying to because I just wanted to fix it. Yes. You know, we were having these these behaviors that were confronting, and I'm like, right. Well, I'm a mom and I need fix this. And I very quickly learnt that I couldn't fix it.
Annie Williams:And
Donna Ortiz:even though the services were there, unless he decided to engage, I couldn't force him. It had to be a choice he made. And taking that step back and being like, okay. He's he's deciding he doesn't wanna engage in this service, it's really, really hard. And YSAS was the one that he stuck with.
Donna Ortiz:And and I think with what Nathan said earlier, I think it's around who he connected with them. Yes. He tried a few of the services. He's like, nah. I'm not interested.
Donna Ortiz:That was the only real place that he would connect with. And so, yeah, as a parent, having it in the hands of the young person and them having to agree to go, that's really hard. Totally understand it. It's all about choice and, you know, it's their life and they've got to make those decisions. But as a parent, stepping back and allowing that to happen is really difficult.
Donna Ortiz:Yes, yeah. So I'm interested to know how you feel that organisations can go about embedding this family inclusive practice into their models. I think there needs to be more lived and living experience. While I think there's definitely a place for people who have gone to university and studied and and have degrees and so, absolutely, there's a place for that. But I do think that having that lived and living experience in conjunction with that Yes.
Donna Ortiz:I think that's really important. Yeah. I think and I think we are actually moving that way. There are a lot more community organizations or or government organisations are having lived and living experience experienced, whether it's consumers or carers, in their organisations. I think that's a big as Nathan mentioned, keep referring to Nathan as he's very knowledgeable.
Donna Ortiz:But for him, having that person who understands or has walked in his shoes, I guess, is one way to say it.
Annie Williams:So to create an integrated service.
Donna Ortiz:Absolutely. I think that's crucial. I really do think that that needs to be something that if an organisation isn't doing it, they want to jump on board because I think it's really crucial.
Annie Williams:Yeah. And in this time, how do you balance supporting your child while protecting your own well-being?
Donna Ortiz:That's a tough question. I can only go on my own personal experience. A lot of people would say to you, and what are you doing to support to what are you doing for you? How are you looking after you? And, honestly, at the time, that was the furthest thing from
Annie Williams:my mind.
Donna Ortiz:However, having trusted person to just debrief with was really important. I'm I'm very lucky to have a sister that's you know, I'm very, very close with her, and and she would listen to everything that I had to say. And she felt a little bit useless because she couldn't provide anything back to me, but just being a sounding board, I think,
Annie Williams:was really helpful. Not being a fixer.
Donna Ortiz:Being a Yeah. Just listening. And she would often say things like, I don't even know what to say to that when I was, you know, explaining what I was going through. And it didn't matter to me that she didn't need to fix it for me. She just I just needed that person to to debrief with.
Donna Ortiz:For me, that's what worked. Mhmm. I think for everyone, it's slightly different. Some people might like going on walks or massages or or whatever. I don't drink, so, you know, having a glass of wine isn't something that I would do, but I know there's lots of people that that is a good way for them to unwind.
Donna Ortiz:Yeah. I think as a parent or as a carer, finding whatever that is for you is really important, and it doesn't have to be grandiose. You don't to be having you may want to choose to go and have therapy, but you don't like, for me, it didn't need to be grandiose. Just having one person and support of my husband as well. Yes.
Donna Ortiz:Yeah. That was important. He knew that if I had to just drop everything and go, he would just, you know we lived quite a number of years where I was very absent from from our relationship and because I was dealing with what I was dealing with and just having his support to be able to, you know, do what I needed to do for my for my young person was really, really important. Well, were in
Annie Williams:it together, really, in different ways. Correct. Nathan, I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about the ideas days and how the the feedback that comes from those that can then be used to to change young people's experiences and and help drive policy changes?
Nathan Abaloz:So Ideas Days is definitely my favorite part of doing what I do at YSAS. Mhmm. It's in September, youth month. And, yeah, I enjoy it so much because you really get to learn about what all types of young people, especially in certain areas, prioritize and need.
Annie Williams:So tell us, what does it look like?
Nathan Abaloz:So there's a series of questions we ask and every year the crew works on trying to improve the questions to make them as understandable as possible. Mhmm. So what it looks like typically is the a youth peer advocate or two with a crew member or two will go to a certain site, and young people who use the service are incentivized with a $40 recognition payment and pizza. And they will come in, and we will ask a series of questions that they will give answers to. It's usually a group setting and a group conversation, and we'll write everything down.
Nathan Abaloz:Yeah. Sometimes they will, you know, be a bit shy or awkward or maybe aren't feeling the best, so they don't really feel like engaging. So it's kind of my job and the youth peer advocate's job to create a safe environment for them to feel open to sharing that.
Annie Williams:Can you give us an idea of what sort of questions you ask people?
Nathan Abaloz:So we will ask questions like, what makes a good worker? And that's about workers in general.
Annie Williams:Yeah.
Nathan Abaloz:We will also ask what's good about YSaaS, like YSaaS services.
Donna Ortiz:Mhmm.
Nathan Abaloz:What can be improved about YSaaS services? What are some issues facing their community
Donna Ortiz:Mhmm.
Nathan Abaloz:And then we'll ask them to prioritize the top three out of everything they say.
Annie Williams:Yeah. And what sort of feedback would you get?
Nathan Abaloz:Oh, sorry. I was just trying to think of the last question. Okay. You get the idea. So the feedback we get, it ranges from site to site and person to person.
Nathan Abaloz:There definitely are trends that we see. Okay. A big trend we saw last year was the idea of third spaces and day programs, support for transition periods, whether that be out of a service in between high school to university
Donna Ortiz:Right.
Nathan Abaloz:Or a big one was coming out of youth detention. Having a a support in that transition period of adjusting to the world after spending time in youth detention. Oh. So there's a range of different things we hear. And I think it's it's really important to have services like or programs like this Yeah.
Nathan Abaloz:Because then it kind of shapes what YSAS needs to work on and prioritize in the best of our abilities to help these young people.
Annie Williams:And and have you seen that translate into a new service or options?
Nathan Abaloz:Yeah. Absolutely. I'll I'll give a more recent thing Yeah. Because we've we did the Ideas Days last September Mhmm. And then we worked before the end of the year on the action plan for the ideas days.
Nathan Abaloz:In general, we're working on adding more day programs
Donna Ortiz:Mhmm.
Nathan Abaloz:Mhmm. To appeal to like a third space.
Donna Ortiz:Mhmm.
Nathan Abaloz:Day programs seem to be something that young people really benefit from and really appreciate because there's many young people who have such a hectic home life that they need a space where they can just relax. And even more importantly, the day programs allow young people to be substance affected. And so it's a safe place for them to kinda hang out and, like, be safe rather than than them being maybe on the streets or in a park where they could be at risk to other dangers or overdose or whatever it may be. So that's one thing that we
Annie Williams:And do they are they helpful in that they provide structure, like there's somewhere to go to get up for and go to on the day?
Nathan Abaloz:Yeah. Because there's And
Annie Williams:routine.
Nathan Abaloz:There's food there. Some day programs have, like, kind of a barber area where they can get a haircut for free. Oh. Some day programs have toiletry services like a shower. Mhmm.
Nathan Abaloz:Other day programs have a music area
Donna Ortiz:Mhmm.
Nathan Abaloz:Or a studio where they can record music.
Donna Ortiz:Mhmm.
Nathan Abaloz:That's a really beneficial way to help young people stay creative
Donna Ortiz:Yes.
Nathan Abaloz:And to give them leisures to look forward to. Mhmm. I remember personally, we would use the PCYC studio all the time in Saint Kilda. We loved booking in there, going there, creating music.
Annie Williams:Playing instruments and music.
Nathan Abaloz:There are there are instruments at some programs, but mostly most youth are into making rap. Yep. And so usually, they'll get, like, a worker there to help produce a beat for them and then they can, you know, write the sing their raps over it or
Donna Ortiz:Mhmm.
Nathan Abaloz:Whatever it may be. I think it's just all about again creating a third space. That was a huge thing we heard last year. And as I said, there's certain trends like the year before, I heard a lot about, you know, safety among amongst young women because of
Annie Williams:the Okay.
Nathan Abaloz:The continuous heightened violence against women that has been happening. Mhmm. I think in 2024, there was a lot of talk about it, especially among the death of Isla Bell. And, yeah, we we didn't hear it as much last year, but I think that's more so because every year there's different problems that are evolving for young people. And as I said, there's so many issues going on for different young people.
Nathan Abaloz:Another big thing was the machete bins. There was a lot to criticize about the machete bin program. There was also a lot of misinformation that we would experience, but I think the important thing is, like, educating someone on what is maybe misinformation. A huge thing that I've experienced is I will often like hear something that I personally don't agree with, but the important thing and the main thing is to listen to what these young people need, not about what you think is right. Right.
Nathan Abaloz:Right. So there's many times where I might feel, I might not fully agree with what a certain young person said. Yeah. But at the end of the day, it's about them, not Yeah. But when it does come to misinformation, it it is really good just to educate on what is misinformation and what isn't, but still reassuring them that their concern is valid.
Nathan Abaloz:And, you know, we're not saying that that isn't a concern to have.
Annie Williams:And when you say educate them, where where do you get your sort of resources and your evidence from to to help educate?
Nathan Abaloz:So I worked on a media literacy video earlier this year that I was a part of, and that was another thing we heard in Ideas Day
Donna Ortiz:Yeah.
Nathan Abaloz:Is young people having a lot of issues with social media, whether it be misinformation or just generally seeing stuff that they don't want to see on their feeds. But I worked on a media literacy video earlier this or last year that was really important to me and just like reassuring people that there are ways to consume media in not only a healthy way, but a way that you kinda get the truth. So I personally use things like looking into what what organization published it
Donna Ortiz:Yes.
Nathan Abaloz:Yes. What writer published it. I'll usually try to look at multiple different media conglomerate not
Annie Williams:conglomerate. Sources.
Nathan Abaloz:Yeah. Multiple different sources to see and that's a big thing is trying to find sources, which I found out is actually really hard to find the original source. So other ways you can do that is looking at what quotes they're using, who said what quotes, looking into the background of that organization, who owns it, type of political leaning that they might be or even shareholders.
Annie Williams:Isn't it?
Nathan Abaloz:It is. And I think a big thing that I try to say is like, no one expects you to do all of this every It's impossible
Donna Ortiz:Yeah. To do it every time you can of AI too. That becoming so big.
Nathan Abaloz:Yeah. Yeah.
Donna Ortiz:I think that's gonna that could only hinder the what you're saying as well.
Nathan Abaloz:That's something What's what's real
Donna Ortiz:and what's not these days.
Nathan Abaloz:Yeah. We're planning on doing a part two to the media literacy including AI. We did briefly mention it, but we wanna do a part two on like yeah, on ways to kind of decipher and it's becoming harder and harder every day.
Annie Williams:And this would be a big learning curve for parents as
Donna Ortiz:well. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Just trying to find resources is is hard enough, but with with misinformation or or Yes.
Donna Ortiz:And with AI, it's just becoming so it's, yeah, it's it has a place, I think. I think it definitely has a place. The same as the Internet has a place. But, yeah, trying to rifle through what's what's what's a good resource and what's not.
Annie Williams:So when you talk about resources, where should parents and carers be looking? That's a tough
Donna Ortiz:question. Well, think the resources that we're creating at Wassa is a good place to start. I think for for parents who are trying to find information, I think trying to stick with things like government stuff, I think, is the best place. Because if you put in if you put into your Google search help for my teenager who's using drugs, the amount of stuff that comes up is just crazy. So I think if you can try and stick to to to more sort of government stuff, I think you find a lot of good resources on there.
Donna Ortiz:For instance, I I know I looked at Eastern Health, Kim's, which is the Child Use Mental Health Service. A lot of their resources were quite good. That's personally, I sort of stuck with those. I I felt I felt safe in with the government. They're validated.
Annie Williams:Correct. Yeah. Nathan, I'm just wondering what what does the future hold for you? What are you most excited about?
Nathan Abaloz:I think I'm just I'm really excited. It it seems like there's quite a few opportunities coming up this year. Right. And so I'm just excited about the the more work I can do within this space and how I can just help more young people who don't have the same opportunities that other people have. My favorite kind of word is like equity Mhmm.
Nathan Abaloz:Because it's so important to give everyone a fair shot. I wish there was real equality, but in a society that we have with systematic barriers and stigma, there there isn't. And so equity is a really important model to go for. And
Annie Williams:so There's work to be done there.
Nathan Abaloz:Yeah. Absolutely. And I'm just excited about the more work I can do, the more people I can meet. I love meeting different people in this space because most of the time, they're doing work that will never affect them, but only help the younger generations. And that's my favorite part about YSS.
Nathan Abaloz:I feel like I've said favorite part a lot, but it's hard to pick a favorite part. But, yeah. And something else I just wanted to add was like doing substantial research and talking to people is is really important. Mhmm. Especially, I mean, even going on the language thing.
Nathan Abaloz:Yeah. I would encourage anyone who wants to educate themselves to look online
Donna Ortiz:Mhmm.
Nathan Abaloz:And look at different language models, like look at what services use different language and just try to educate yourself. I mean, when it comes as a parent looking for the right service for their young person. It's sometimes feels impossible to find the right thing.
Donna Ortiz:Absolutely.
Nathan Abaloz:And so
Donna Ortiz:And as a parent, know not knowing the language is a real you know, you can feel like they're speaking a completely different language when they're dropping words around the house and you're not sure what they're on about. And being able to use the right terminology that that they that they want you to use. Absolutely. Like you said before about that word junkie, I know I'm much older than you, and the terminology or the term junkie to me has a real connotation around that.
Nathan Abaloz:Absolutely. Yeah.
Donna Ortiz:And it's a real negative. And you mentioned earlier that some people are finding it as as a bit they're using it as a bit powerful, you
Nathan Abaloz:know Yeah.
Donna Ortiz:And being able to shape their own their own journey.
Nathan Abaloz:Yeah. It's a definitely person based thing. And I would say most people don't like that word. Most people don't. But it is interesting to see how different people relate to certain language.
Annie Williams:Yeah. Donna, I was just wondering what messages would you want the community to hear and maybe reflect on regarding parents in similar situations?
Donna Ortiz:I think the biggest thing that we need to take as a community is judgment. We need to remove judgment. The minute that you say, oh, my son's or my daughter is using substances, it's, oh, you must be a terrible parent. What have you done wrong? And removing judgment and seeing it as a medical condition and seeing it as no different to any other medical condition that that may require treatment, and that treatment's gonna be different for everybody.
Donna Ortiz:But, yeah, judgment is a big thing I think we need. Stigma and judgment is yeah.
Annie Williams:And making people aware of their own, I guess, unconscious bias.
Donna Ortiz:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think we have come a long way as a society, but we've got a long way to go. A long way to go.
Donna Ortiz:And I think, you know, I said before, as a parent, all you want is for your child to be happy and healthy and successful in life and and that's gonna look different for everyone. And being able to allow people to go through their journey, however that may look with free of judgment, I think would be a wonderful place to be at.
Annie Williams:So what are you most proud of in yourself and There's a lot
Donna Ortiz:of things I'm proud of. I'm proud of all of my children where they are. You know, it's it's been a journey. I'm also proud of myself for being the parent that I am. I think that I do try really hard to try and understand and do some research and and look at the world differently.
Donna Ortiz:You know, when when I was younger, life was very different and how it is now, it's, you know, you've as a parent, you have to move with the times and as much as we may not like it, we might have liked how the eighties were, and we're not in the eighties anymore. And, you know, it is very different. I am quite proud of the parent that I I am and that the relationship that I have with all I have four children and I have a wonderful relationship with all four of them and I'm very, very lucky to have that. But it's not through it's through hard work. It's
Annie Williams:been Yes.
Donna Ortiz:There's been a lot of hard work. And the other thing I'm I'm also proud of is the with the work that I'm doing with YSAS, being able to give back to a a service that supported my family when we needed it most, but also then being able to support other families that that are going through, you know, some of the worst times of their life, and it can feel like it's never ever going to end. I always say that, you know, experiences shape who we are. And as horrible as the experiences were that we were going through at the time, it's really shaped where I am now as a person as well. And being able to give back to other parents and trying and help them navigate, you know, their their journey.
Donna Ortiz:Yeah. I'm really proud to be able to do that. So
Annie Williams:I feel like we've sort of come full circle because that brings me back to that that feeling of hope that you were you were
Donna Ortiz:talking about. And if only I I, you know, I think back and think, oh, if I had me three or four years ago, you know, to be able to say, it's gonna be okay. You're gonna get there. Mhmm. Well, people did that.
Donna Ortiz:You didn't I didn't feel that at the time. In hindsight, you know, I can see now it was okay, but it's not it doesn't always work out like that for everyone. But having hope and and being able to try and just put one foot in front of the other, it's that's all you can do.
Annie Williams:Yep. Yeah. Is that something that resonates with you, Nathan?
Nathan Abaloz:Yeah. I I would definitely say so. I think the the work that I've done at YSAS is is something that it sounds a bit bleak, something that feels like it keeps me alive Mhmm. And it keeps me going. And especially being able to help other people and and contribute to a service that I think really does help people.
Nathan Abaloz:I feel very fortunate to be working with YSAS in particular because my best experiences when it comes to reaching out for help is through them. And, yeah, I there's so many young people that I met throughout my years of, you know, homelessness, addiction, or whatever it may be, and so many young people that I know deserve so much more. And so I think yeah. It just it makes me really happy that I'm able to kind of try my best to apply myself to give these young people an opportunity they might have not gotten ten years ago, five years ago, however long ago. I do think there are big strides being made in the AOD scene and mental health scene.
Nathan Abaloz:I also sometimes feel worried that we're going backwards. But as long as we have people like, you know, Donna and Annie putting the word out there and educating themselves on what really helps people, then I think eventually we'll get to a, you know, we'll get to a better place every year.
Annie Williams:So your work can really be called your passion project?
Nathan Abaloz:Absolutely. Yeah. I can talk forever about this stuff. Like, I a lot of the time people will be like, I need a break because I'll just keep going.
Annie Williams:Well, I'm very grateful that you can talk forever. And I'm really grateful to both of you for your time today and your willingness to share your valuable insights and your your experience with us today.
Nathan Abaloz:Well, thank you for the opportunity. Thank you.
Annie Williams:Thank you for joining us on the Hamilton Center podcast where we explore the thinking of leaders, service providers, workers, and people with living and lived experience shaping the landscape of integrated care in mental health and addiction services across Victoria. I'm Annie Williams, your host today, and we can't wait to share these insights with you. Visit our website, www.hamiltoncentre.org.au, and subscribe to our newsletter for a journey into transformative mental health and addiction care.