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The stories from the places where people gather.
Dana Kadwell (01:30)
And today we are talking with Jonathan Aymin Jonathan started his venue management journey with the launch of a single San Diego wedding venue. In the next five years, he grew that to multiple venues in multiple states and simultaneously launched and hosted the VenueRx podcast YouTube channel to ignite inspiration and education for the venue community. CSE has now been a part of over 6,500 events and is actively taking on new venues as partners.
In addition, Jonathan serves as the visionary founder behind WEVA, the first national wedding and event venue association. This professional association is dedicated to venue owners and operators offering networking opportunities, valuable resources, and comprehensive education tailored specifically to the venue industry. Jonathan receives a BS from Colorado State University in business management and is a lifelong learner.
Beyond his professional achievements, Jonathan takes pride in his role as a husband and father to three boys and four girls. He enjoys watching his kids play sports, playing soccer and basketball himself, dreaming up new business ventures and grilling pretty much any type of food. welcome to the show.
Jonathan/VenueRx (02:37)
Thanks so much. It's funny in the bio I realized that I hadn't updated the number of kids. had two boys and four girls in there. But yeah, last what? Gosh, he's seven, eight months old now. He's growing quick. We've got a new little boy in the crew.
Dana Kadwell (02:54)
Seven children. I
am forever impressed. If anyone who has more than two, I'm like, I just don't know how you do it. like, you're totally in zone parenting. I don't even think you're in zone parenting. You're like completely outnumbered parenting over there.
Jonathan/VenueRx (03:07)
Yeah, it's true. It's we're in we're in kind of like a Wrangle like lasso mode. you know, if anyone gets too far away, just kind of, know, dogs, maybe that's the next thing like, you know, like, a good golden retriever just kind of what they see it starting to stray just coming back in.
Dana Kadwell (03:13)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yes. Corral them together. Yeah.
That's hilarious. Yeah. Well, kudos to you. I know we've talked a lot about kids and stuff. I love that. I've, I've always, I actually really wanted a really big family. And my husband always said that my entrepreneurship venue journey was our third child and that was enough. And it was, it was the right move for us. But yeah, always jealous of big families. I know. I know. Yes. I know. Enough. I know. Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (03:45)
You're adding venues. You're adding venues. You're adding kids, right? You're adding like, and you've got the masterclass, fourth child, fifth child now. mean, there
you go.
Dana Kadwell (03:57)
It's true. I
actually called the two new venues my twins because I can't keep them straight half the time. I'm like, I don't know one of those twins, like one of them. Like, you know, you know I'm talking about. The or the G, pick one. Yeah. well, let's dive in real quickly. I would love for you to share with our guests just how you got started. I think the origin stories are super interesting. What even got you into the venue space to begin with.
Jonathan/VenueRx (04:19)
Yeah, I'll go quick for this. I've shared this on, you know, in other places, but really the big thing for me was hospitality and early on, this is maybe not a noble place to start, but you know, when I was in college, I loved partying. I loved putting groups of people together and just seeing people have fun. And I realized as a part of that, it wasn't that I enjoyed like drinking and, you know.
getting wasted and getting turned up and having a crazy time. Like it wasn't necessarily that as much as I enjoyed actually putting people together. for a college bro, getting some science behind, what's the ratio of girls to guys that we want here at this party? like how many 30 racks of beer are we gonna need to make sure that we have enough alcohol here? Because if you don't have alcohol at the party, people are gonna leave. And also you can't have too many people at the party because then our landlord is gonna get a call.
Dana Kadwell (05:07)
Alright. Yep.
Jonathan/VenueRx (05:14)
So there's like some of this ratio, some of this operational balance that was happening. And when I started becoming an adult, I was getting out of college, I was working four or five jobs. And it was really like, how do I take the love of what I like doing, which is gathering people, getting people together and kind of that operations piece. And how do we put those two things together in a way that makes money? And, you know,
Dana Kadwell (05:16)
Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (05:42)
There's people that say, you know, I follow your passion and things like that. It wasn't necessarily as much that I was like following my passion, but I followed like, what was I passionate about? What could I also make money at? And then where was I deficient and you know, what skills did I need to learn? And what personal, personal character traits that I need to, work on to be able to get to the next level. And, know, that started as providing for my family, but now as we've grown, it's, providing for our team, being able to grow so that I'm able to give
our team more opportunities. We almost have a hundred employees at this point. so just going, it has changed over time, but it really started with a love of hospitality and first in staffing and then second in venue management and
The shift there from staffing to venue management, transparently, was just being able to serve more people and have a better relationship with each one of our team. In staffing, it's a numbers game. You know, you're successful if you're fielding thousands of people because each person represents, you know, growth inside the company. With us, the impact is more how many couples are reserving and how many guests are reserving. And so I think that, you know, at each venue location that we take on, we're able to serve that many more couples. And really over the years, the key
Dana Kadwell (06:41)
Mm.
Jonathan/VenueRx (06:58)
focus of our company has been and our purpose, which has been something that's been refined, is one word and it's the word connection. And I think that this world right now, we're suffering from a loss of connection to each other. mean, we are connected. I should correct myself a little bit. We're connected digitally on the cell phone and we can call up anyone and we can reach out to people that we never used to be able to have access to. But
Dana Kadwell (07:18)
you
Jonathan/VenueRx (07:28)
we have less close friendships than ever before. And we have a loneliness epidemic and there's all these things. And I believe that events are kind of the last frontier where people really cherish getting together, gathering together. Weddings are more important than ever. I do believe the way that weddings are being consumed and attended are changing. The spends are changing, things like that. But the function of gathering together is more important than ever before. And so...
Dana Kadwell (07:38)
Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (07:53)
at CSE, believe that we have a responsibility and a purpose to facilitate those connections. And that's really what we're what we're focused on right now as we continue to grow.
Dana Kadwell (08:02)
I love that. think you're just so spot on in that in general. the amount of conversations you have with people, even at events that when you're working them or whatnot, just that the desire to be around other people, to have that connection. And even just like events, like I'm about to go to my 20th college reunion next weekend. And just the excitement of seeing these people that I haven't seen, we couldn't go to our 15 years because it during COVID. So like I hadn't seen this in our 10 year.
And just the desire to not just see them and give them a hug, but to connect with them not over a computer, in person. And I think that is what events are, is it's bringing those people together. think you're completely spot on with that, 100%.
Jonathan/VenueRx (08:46)
Yeah, I think that social media has become TV, right? There's folks that are talking about that quite a bit. Social media has become TV and it used to be that we did use like Facebook and Instagram to connect with people and really like keep those connections alive in a meaningful way, even though there was some distance. But I believe with a lot of the algorithm changes that we've seen over the last four or five years, social media is actively showing your content to most strangers, mostly
Dana Kadwell (08:51)
Yeah, yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (09:15)
strangers and a very small amount to actually your followers. so their growth engines, their engagement engines, and they're really powerful ways to be used in business. But in terms of connection, it doesn't really happen that much. And so we used to be connected Facebook, colleges, it used to be you track with people.
Dana Kadwell (09:33)
Yeah,
that's right.
Jonathan/VenueRx (09:35)
That sure still may be happening in some senses, but you're seeing way more content than ever before for people that you don't follow. And so I think, again, events like going to your reunion or even like, I just want to shout you out, the Venue Masterclass. mean, that was such a cool opportunity because you're connected around a like-minded pursuit and it's managing, owning venues, operating venues. And so you get to do that those times. Sure, you might end up spending 500, 1500,
Dana Kadwell (09:55)
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan/VenueRx (10:05)
2500, 2500, doesn't really matter. That money becomes the best money you've ever spent because you're in the room with people that are not only knowledgeable about what you're doing, but you share this common pursuit and you immediately are much closer and you're comparing notes and you're like, hey, what's going on? And that feels good and it pumps you up to get back into normal life in a renewed way with that energy and the confidence and the inspiration that you need to keep going and make it through the tough days.
Dana Kadwell (10:32)
Right. Yeah, I totally agree. Thank you for that shout out. I feel the same way. Like it's so much pressure going into that conference, being the host and the person doing it. But like the minute that very first person you give a hug to the minute, like it's that it all just kind of washes away because we're all there for the same reason. And that is to connect with one another. That is to learn from another, to grow, to celebrate even just being in this part of the industry. You know, cause it's just, it's a different weight you know,
no part of the industry is easier or harder, it's just different. And sometimes it's nice just to be in a room of people that gets it. Like no one can put the freaking chairs back correctly, no matter how many diagrams you create and how many trainings you have. Like still you're gonna go in on a Monday and be like, what in the world? Like, you know, just like stupid stuff like that from running a venue well, so I think clarify a little bit for us. So did you start out as a venue owner?
let you buy a venue and then you became part of the management or did you work at a venue and you're like, no, I think I can bring this to multiple venues.
Jonathan/VenueRx (11:31)
Yeah, that's a great question. I completely skipped over that part of what you asked early on. we early on, when we got into staffing, we got into it because it was what we had. Like we had our work ethic and we knew that we could just get out there and serve people at events as we looked at over the years. So it was between 2014 and 2018 that we really
Dana Kadwell (11:33)
That's fine.
Jonathan/VenueRx (11:54)
We're heavy into staffing only and 2018 is when we picked up our first venue. In that transition, we started to see, okay, we show up at these venues and the venue manager, whoever's there, if they are set up well, if they have, you know, our questions answered, if the venue is run well, usually the staff has a better time, catering has a better time, the client have a better time. If not, the staffing or the catering company or other vendors really have to overachieve to make up for some of the issues that happened at the venue level.
So we felt like we need to get into the venue space. We had zero capital.
Like no money, like negative money. And so we're like, how are we going to get to the venue space? It's a, it's, you know, incredibly difficult space to break into capital intensive. You know, you're not spending less than a million dollars today. If you're, if you're building a business or building a venue and, uh, and so how do we do it? Well, we can do it through management. And so we had an opportunity to take something from absolutely nothing, um, at a huge venue now in the sand.
Dana Kadwell (12:31)
Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (12:59)
Diego
area and they had a tasting room as well. So we built out their tasting room program on the hospitality side. And that was easy because it was basically bar staffing, at least it started there. And then it layered in and then the venue side, it was, was managing that space. So I did everything from laying out the design of where the area was going to be. I found an architect friend who was well known in the San Diego area. asked him, Hey man, can I buy you a couple beers and a
Dana Kadwell (13:06)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (13:26)
little pizza and can you just help me put this into CAD and then I gave that to the venue owner. They created it. We create created two venue locations there. We built their website for them their whole presence. We scaled up then of course COVID hit. So we refunded many people we postponed many people in that time. We also started another venue. So these are all management contracts. We managed
Dana Kadwell (13:28)
Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (13:52)
10, 11 venues until we got the opportunity most recently to become a part owner. So I currently am a part owner of a venue here in Alabama and it's in construction right now. We actually just got our final permits from the county and we're going to start moving dirt here pretty soon. So it is, it has been a long time coming. It was supposed to be, we're supposed to make progress on it last year and that didn't happen. So maybe more on the patient side later. But yeah, that's
Dana Kadwell (14:07)
Congrats.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (14:22)
That's where we're at right now. am a venue owner as well as well a hypothetical venue owner. You can't hold your event there yet. So I won't get ahead of myself, but we're getting
Dana Kadwell (14:31)
Okay, so we're
gonna have to have a revisit in a year, because I am so curious to have this conversation about the differences you see from walking in as a management and walking in as an owner. I have my own feelings and emotions about it that I don't think there's actually a huge difference in general, but I would love to chat about it in a year, because I think that's amazing. Well, congratulations, that's super exciting.
Jonathan/VenueRx (14:56)
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it's we have management agreements. We have something that's more or less like a lease situation. And then this one, this one will own. I, I anticipate in the future, bringing on more of all three of those types, but definitely love the ownership side of it. So far, it's been a lot of learning things that I don't know stuff about, construction things.
Dana Kadwell (15:10)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and like
the boring side of it too is like, you know, having sold a venue, it's nice having an asset that's not like a physical asset to like have to like kind of sink some money into to have that kind of like that security like because it's very different. It's a very different positioning that you have to be able to grow and to use your money in smart ways if you have that kind of asset behind you. I totally like from like a
a business, very boring business side of things. Like diversifying that income is like, you know, super important. So yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (15:57)
Definitely something
and I'm, and I'm curious because you you've gone through this cycle and, I'll, I'll get into podcast mode myself if I'm not careful. I, but I just one question, just one question. Do you, when, when you're a venue owner, how often are you actually receiving money outside of the lease or payments that you're getting from the venues that are happening there? Cause isn't most of that realized either at the time of sale or based on ancillary revenue that's able to be generated.
Dana Kadwell (16:06)
Yeah. Yeah, I'd say.
Yeah,
it just depends. So it depends on if you are an owner that's working in your business. like then you're, you you obviously earn money as an employee. And I've had to had this question a lot about like the fact that as an owner, you have the rights to own it. You do not have the rights to be employed by it. Like, and so that's why it's super important to have those operating agreements. Those, if you're an S-Corp having that board that can really help run it the way you want to run it.
But from an owner perspective, we used to just take quarterly distributions. And that's how we got our owner pay. And that was just, and a lot of it, we had to get really savvy with it because the unrealized income became too much. so there's, and there's lots of rules and regulations and stuff like that. It's all taxed differently, but like for these two new spaces that I have, like I...
what I will be doing is filtering all of my salaries through the lease payments, essentially. So I'll be charging what I wanna make on the lease. It's just a better all around, taxes are better for the operating company, taxes are better for me, it's just a better move. And now there is a cap to that. And so eventually you will have to take a distribution, like you're gonna have to, that's just part of it. But I try to minimize that as much as possible and run it through those things. But yeah, mean, but I think, you know,
anyone of you are listening, my first distribution didn't come until six years into owning the Bradford. I mean, we were like, I mean, I was barely making a paycheck at that point because we were throwing everything back into it because we had no capital. had no like start, like we started from nothing. And so every dollar we had went right back into it. And it really was 2021, I think it was the first year that we actually took a distribution. And then it just, once you figure it out, once we kind of created,
the figure out how to sell it, how to sell over 100 events a year. I mean, the dam just broke and it was like, I mean, it was just flowing money, which was great. So I, it's, it's hard. I will tell you to go from like a super successful moneymaker to these two places where you're like literally staring at the bank account every hour. You're like, okay, like, is this going to cash? So today, like, okay, do you to this thing over here? Like, and there was something really like,
emotional about it for me this past month actually. Like I struggled with it and I was talking to a really good friend of mine who's a mentor and he goes, and this is kind of ties into what we're talking about today is patience. And he told me he's like, Dana, a shout out to Dean Ogan from Rocky Top. He said, Dana, you're just gonna have to eat a shit sandwich for two years. Like you're just gonna have to suck it up and eat a shit sandwich. It's gonna suck and it's just what it's gonna be. And he's like, but if you eat that shit sandwich, she's like, eventually it's gonna be fine.
Jonathan/VenueRx (18:47)
Yeah.
Dana Kadwell (19:12)
And it was that reminder of like, okay, everything isn't going to happen instantaneously. You have like create the boundaries you need, right? But like have that patience.
Dana Kadwell (19:25)
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Dana Kadwell (20:44)
I'm super curious because obviously building something from nothing is like, is intense, right? And it takes so much patience, perseverance, Can you share a season where nothing was working? Like everything you tried felt like it failed. And how did you
How did you get yourself through that?
Jonathan/VenueRx (21:07)
That's just feels like it's been the story of all of the years. I think I'm probably still in that season, but I think, you know, depending on who you are as, an operator, or who you are in your business, it will change your experience with this. tend to be a visionary. am practical, but I really like, I'll have three ideas a day and you know, you can do anything, but you can't do everything. so I, I constantly in my business, when I'm, when I'm looking at something, I
Dana Kadwell (21:11)
You
Jonathan/VenueRx (21:37)
want to make a change. And now we're at the organizational size where there are other people that are involved in making those decisions and executing those decisions. And you've got to get team buy-in. And I might have a great idea for how, we could do this to surprise and delight our couples. But then not everyone is going to be bought into that. And so part of being a leader is getting buy-in from the team. And I think I've really struggled as the years have gone on.
with not creating chaos inside my organization as a visionary because of these like explosive fever dream sparks of inspiration that just kind of like, I have to say, because I'm just so excited about it. And I'm like, yeah, this would totally work. I know at gut level, like this would work. And at some point we're gonna have to get it done, but.
you know, as you're building an organization and as you're going along, not everyone can filter that. And shout out to our spouses, if you're a spouse of a visionary, you know, like, you know that this is, this can be difficult, you know, dealing with this, listening to this, absorbing all of the ideas. And so for me,
Dana Kadwell (22:37)
Bye.
Jonathan/VenueRx (22:50)
know, patience over the last couple of years specifically is I see this huge opportunity when it comes to the venue space, when it comes to the opportunity we have to help people connect, and even the opportunity that we have to impact communities for good through venues. But I've got to be careful that I'm growing because, you know, you might push forward really hard today, but you'd sacrifice tomorrow and the next couple of weeks. And so if you want long-term growth,
Dana Kadwell (23:17)
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan/VenueRx (23:20)
and you want to be around for a long time, being conscious of that and being willing to take three steps forward, one step back every day is still plus two steps forward every single day. And that takes courage and that takes grit because you're only going to be looking at the one step back every day, even though there were two steps forward. yeah, there's so much there I could...
Dana Kadwell (23:42)
I know.
Jonathan/VenueRx (23:48)
I could go on. I guess one other thing is.
with the podcast and with Weva and then also with managing the business. There have been things like, for example, with Weva that we really took a little bit of a pause on and we're building infrastructure back now and resources and a bunch of things that I'm really excited to relaunch. And we're gonna do some really exciting things for folks who were in, who were members before, who then we took that little pause. So they're gonna be able to be members for free for a little while and stuff like that. But the most important thing there is
I'm an impatient person. want all of that stuff to happen immediately. want to do, and you know, I want to do a Weave-a event and I want to do 10 podcast releases per week. And I want to grow the business and have five venues onboarding immediately. But sometimes you can't have that all at once. And you have to say, just have a conversation with yourself and say, Hey, I can't do all this. What's the most important? It's your family. It's your health stack outside of that. Okay. It's taking care of your employees.
incremental business growth, what are the biggest levers? And then looking and saying, Hey, maybe we don't have a Weave event, but guess what? There's this amazing lady named Dana Cadwell. She's got this venue masterclass. Like how can we support that? Let's push this thing to the side. Hey, we can't do 10 releases, podcast releases per week. Let's do one and let's try to just be consistent with one and not saying we can't do 10. So let's do zero. Like, you know, not having that sort of emotional reaction. So I know there's a lot there, but, um,
Dana Kadwell (25:02)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. All right.
Jonathan/VenueRx (25:20)
That's, it's definitely something that I struggle with and, you know, something I'm consistently working on.
Dana Kadwell (25:26)
One, I feel like our spouses should hang out because they probably would relate a lot to this. My poor, poor, poor husband. But it's so funny you should say all that because like I struggle with this myself. And I think a lot of it comes from when you're a very passionate person and when you have dreams and goals and it's really interesting. One, first off, your kids are gonna see it.
Jonathan/VenueRx (25:32)
Probably.
Dana Kadwell (25:49)
they're gonna think you're a rock star. They're gonna love that you're following your passion in your heart. And it's the thing that keeps me super motivated in lot of ways. Like my daughter just reposted something from Instagram or whatever. And cause she was like, so proud of me. it's such a neat thing to see your kids be so proud of what you're doing. But I think when you're in those seasons of like, when the ideas are abundant and you want to, you want to do all of the things. And I am totally that way. The master class, I love to speak at the podcast.
the venues, like launching my next thing, keep going, going, going, going. There is something really powerful about taking a step back and one, giving yourself grace in those moments and saying, like, you're right, if I can't do 10, one is still good enough, like that's still okay. But also saying, maybe this isn't the time for this part to shine, right? Like, and I always think there's reasons for that. Like, I think a lot about, like, I took a really big break from the podcast, almost six months last year, and
And it ate me up. I I hate it every day. Every week I didn't post like a interview. was like, my gosh. And I had interviews, like I had them recorded. And I realized it would have been the most inauthentic point of my life for me to post this happy go lucky, let's talk about how wonderful venue ownership is when I was in my own miserable space, right? And I think I would have lost a lot of listeners. Like it just wouldn't have been.
authentic to what I was going through, it wouldn't have been authentic to what I was trying to create here. And so being able to start the season with like a renewed energy and like the sense of let's be real about what we're doing here and having these ideas of like all the different iterations I'm having of it. It's because I didn't force it, right? So I think kind of in those waiting seasons, I think that they're super, super hard. When you think about timeline,
Has that idea of timeline changed over the years from like when you started to now?
Jonathan/VenueRx (27:49)
Absolutely. Timeline has been or just thinking about the time that it takes to get something done for me has I believe I've become more realistic in a sense because I have experienced a couple of business cycles and I've seen, okay, I might want to do this today, but realistically it's not going to be implemented today. And especially, you know, if, you have an organization and there's several pieces and people that have to be bought in and things
like that, you know, it's not just your decision anymore. And so if you're a smaller business owner, meaning smaller, even by team size, not even by, by, by revenue volume, but just smaller by team size, really cherish that because you can make a decision today, implement it tomorrow and it's done. But
Dana Kadwell (28:29)
All
Jonathan/VenueRx (28:35)
You know, we're, we're at the point now where there's a couple of people that have to be involved. so being realistic with the timeline and seeing, okay, we're going to make this decision today. Let's plan on rolling it out in the next week. We'll calibrate in two or three weeks and then really see where we're at in four weeks from now. That's something I never would have said four or five years ago. I would have been like, everything's happening this week. And then I would be so discouraged. Yeah.
Dana Kadwell (28:56)
Yeah.
Emergency. Yeah.
Yes.
Jonathan/VenueRx (29:03)
Yeah.
And then also in the company, felt like a bunch of fires, constantly. so, you know, Dana, though, there's a part of that also where you think about someone like Elon Musk, or you think about like the highest performers that we know in the world today, people who are talked about and, and, and all of that, you, they often have unrealistic expectations for timelines. And I think part of that is calculated because
because they know that maybe something is completely unrealistic. They can't get it done in...
you know, a week, but they say, Hey, let's get it done in a week. And then it realistically is going to take a month, but it's better than saying, Hey, it's going to let's take three months. And then, you know, you take three months or maybe you even do good and you do two months versus saying, Hey, let's take a week. And then it takes two weeks. Like the, the, framing there is completely different. And so I do think it's the responsibility of a leader to challenge.
the team to say, what can we do faster and better and with AI? Gosh, I mean, you can do things so much quicker and than you ever could before. So I do think in a sense, my answer is almost split here. Yes, I am more realistic today, but also I understand the value as a leader of challenging, you know, hey, this is going to take a really long time. Let's just.
go through it. If it's something that you want to enjoy, absolutely. But if it's administration, systems wise, changes, implementing financial controls, whatever it is, let's get that done right now so that we can enjoy the benefits of it for as long as
Dana Kadwell (30:41)
Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (30:45)
possible.
Dana Kadwell (30:49)
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Dana Kadwell (31:38)
Yeah, there's definitely that fine line of you don't want to rush something and do it kind of halfway or not well or not correctly. But then there's also that the crippling fear of doing something wrong or giving them too much time. And then it kind of falls off the wayside type of thing. That is it's so true. And I love I love that idea. I think I think that reframing it into the place of like challenging your employees to
It's not even to rise the occasion, but to do something bigger, faster, greater. And what I have found is when I've taken my own expectations off of something, they actually deliver something better than what I would have done. Because I'm filtering it through sometimes. I don't want to pressure somebody. I don't want to stress them out. It's not negative part of leadership. You're thinking through your employees. I know that so-and-so gets really overwhelmed when I ask them to do X, Y, Z, or whatever. So you're like,
Jonathan/VenueRx (32:17)
That's powerful.
Dana Kadwell (32:33)
almost like sugarcoating it too much as opposed to just saying, hey, here's this idea. What do you guys think? Like, tell me, tell me what you think we could do timeline wise. Like, what do you, and the stuff they tell me things I think is crazy. I'm like, you can get that done in weeks. Cool. Like I was going to say a month, you know, like, but it's like giving them that power in a lot of ways. And then, and going back to what you originally said, like giving them that buy-in, like they are so bought into it, you know? So I love that. Just remembering to take your own
expectations off almost and present them with that challenge. It's great advice.
Jonathan/VenueRx (33:06)
Yeah.
And I'll do one, I'll put one caveat on that. I think it does matter who you are as, a human being. I, I tend to be okay with a certain amount of mess in the process.
Dana Kadwell (33:14)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (33:26)
to get there. And I'll say like, even with having kids, like I wasn't ready to have my first kid, wasn't ready to have my third kid, wasn't ready to have my fifth kid, and certainly wasn't planning on having my seventh kid at all. And our son arrived, you know, or we found out we were pregnant a week after moving to Alabama, when my wife and I had kind of said, Hey, we're going to make this move.
not change anything in the family or in the business or anything for about a year, really get stable and set here, secure a couple things in the business, and then we're gonna grow after that. We'll grow our family, we'll grow our, that was our plan. We wrote it down, we used Lucidchart, we're very organized, you know, like, and then we find out a week later when she's like, babe, I'm pregnant. Like, and so that, I was like, my gosh, like that's a whole interruption, that's, you know, but oftentimes,
Dana Kadwell (34:04)
Yeah.
Yes.
Jonathan/VenueRx (34:16)
we have the opportunity to grow before we're ready. And so if you're okay with that.
and you're willing to walk through those doors, I believe you'll get further along. I don't believe it's an issue of right versus wrong. I believe it's all dependent on your goals and where you want to be. And if the goal is eventually to have a big family and the big family comes maybe a little bit before you're ready for it, you got to figure it out, right? If the business, the goal is a big business and these business opportunities come and you're not ready for it you're under-capitalized, go out and find the resources. Figure it out.
But if the goal is something different, that's not a bad thing. So you really have to go, don't compare yourself to other people, analyze your own goals and what you're going for. And then you can modify the timeline and the kind of messiness or neatness of the process based on what your desired outcome is.
Dana Kadwell (35:07)
love that. when you have the opportunity to grow before you are ready, that's amazing. Do you have a good example of that? Like where you were kind of forced to grow before you were in the business world. I think every parent could say that about being a parent. like before you were like, and you just didn't realize, you know, that this was an opportunity to grow and you were kind of kicking your feet, screaming the whole way.
Jonathan/VenueRx (35:33)
Yeah, yeah, I think I can remember two key times that this happened. Number one was when we brought on our third venue. So we were, we had already brought on our first venue. It was growing, it was happening. We had our second venue come online and we were able to spread resources from team resources to the systems that we have. were still figuring a lot out and it really felt like we were just starting to figure it out. We really didn't know.
A lot, most things really. you know, we're imagine 2018, 2019, 2020. So we're still doing some staffing stuff. We're also managing. So the business is kind of splitting at this point. We sell the staffing component of the business in 2020. We dive full into venue management in 2020, end of 2020, 2021. Now we have an opportunity to take on a third venue.
This was a venue that was well known in the area, had been operating for the previous seven years, and we had actually worked at the venue in a staffing capacity, but this venue already had existing contracts on the books, 60 existing contracts on the books. We had never brought on a venue with existing contracts. We had only done kind of from the ground up builds, which gave us lot of leeway to like, yeah, absolutely. So we were walking into kind of someone else's playground with someone else's rules.
Dana Kadwell (36:48)
wow, control, yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (36:56)
the outgoing venue management group supported us a little bit, but they quickly dropped off, quickly as in like a week or two. Yeah, they're like, bye. And so there was a lot. And so we were not really...
Dana Kadwell (37:04)
They're like, peace out. Figure it out.
Jonathan/VenueRx (37:13)
ready for that at the time. And I remember looking at my wife and we were understaffed and we were, and we were just like, Hey, what are we going to do? And so she actually started helping with all of the leads and being the venue manager and taking care of all the couples. And then she would actually get the clients when they would inquire, she would set me up for tours and I would go tour. And then we had our other teammates focusing on those other venues. So I would, I would drive and I would just go and we would, we would figure it out. And so we kept the sales coming in.
and she kept the things floating until we could kind of shake things out. And it probably took us six months. But the second point of that is we had our fourth venue come on almost nine months later. So on top of that, then we've got this other venue. We're not building it from the ground up. It was a rehab venue sort of situation. And so now it's like, okay, how do we stretch again? So we weren't ready. We knew how to do what we were talking about, but...
Dana Kadwell (37:55)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan/VenueRx (38:10)
we weren't ready from a staffing perspective. We weren't ready in so many ways, but it was like, do we want to take this on? Can we take this on? Do we want to grow? The answers were yes. So it's like, let's figure it out. And so I did sales at both venues and then we shifted and had some staff share and, you know, unfortunately they're.
Dana Kadwell (38:20)
Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (38:28)
since that was some messy growth, some of our team members, we asked, hey, can you do this? Hey, can you do this? There, we didn't have the best policies. We didn't have the best SOPs. We sometimes under communicated or over communicated. It did feel like there was always a fire. Like there was a lot that wasn't ideal in the company. And we had a staffing change also going on because we had previous team members who worked in an admin capacity for the staffing side that had to switch over for the venue side.
Dana Kadwell (38:57)
Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (38:58)
And so it was a mess. We lost some folks, some great folks. We lost some folks that I'm glad that we parted ways with. I think that, you know, the opportunity had passed for them and for us working with them. And, you know, we really got into a new thing, but there was probably a year or two there between 2020, like the end of 2020, really 2021 to 2023, where it was chaos.
Dana Kadwell (39:09)
you
Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (39:21)
And so you have to just, again, look at the outcome. We wanted a bigger business. We wanted to serve more couples. We wanted to add venues. Were we ready? No, it wasn't neatly packaged with a bow, but we were like, we're going to figure this out.
Dana Kadwell (39:34)
Yeah, I'm sure in the middle of it, there was so many people that are like, it's all gonna work out. It'll all work out. It'll be fine. And I know when you're in the middle of chaos like that, it's not that you don't want to hear that. You're just like, yeah, I maybe believe that but at time, I can't see the end. Like I can't see how to get to the other side. And there has definitely been moments recently where I have felt that I'm like, no, like I logically know that it's all gonna work out quote unquote. But I have a different opinion about it now. Like I think
the younger me would have said, if someone said it all work out, then in my mind, it's all going to work out exactly how I want it to. And now when someone says it's, I think, it's going to work out. It's like, it's going to work out exactly how it's meant to, which is not necessarily what I wanted to. And is there in that situation, even talking about the employee changes and bringing on those things that kind of change your perspective of like, when you're going through something hard and
trying to tell yourself like it's gonna be okay, it's gonna be okay, it's all gonna work out, it's all gonna work out.
Jonathan/VenueRx (40:36)
Yeah, I would actually argue that it may be easier for the leader to kind of have a macro sense on a better day, let's call it, that it will all work out and a sense of calm about that. I'm a person of faith and I believe that all things work together for good.
Dana Kadwell (40:48)
Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (41:02)
you know, and that ties into my faith. And so there is that sense, but in a practical business sense as well, I know that we're taking the steps necessary to untangle the mess or to solve the problem or to implement the SOP, whatever it is. So you kind of have to juggle those two. I would argue it's actually much more difficult for someone who is not in your brain, not in you as the leader's brain to understand what's going on and to feel a sense of
calm. so what I would actually go back and change if I could now, and what I am changing going forward is my demeanor and my posture and my emotional level, because I think the team takes a lot of their North Star feelings wise for how you as the leader are reacting to stuff that's happening in the business. And so if you're like, and you're in this in this stressed state, people feel that and they'll
that we might be, it might be over. This might be at the end of the line. Even though you as the leader know that I'm just, this is just this one thing that's just getting me right now.
they're going to think because they don't, they don't see the full picture. And so I think I'd be much more empathetic to my team and really be harder on myself in terms of the emotional control that I'd like to see from myself to say, Hey guys, we're not going out of business, but this does have to change now and just keep my emotions a lot more even keel. and it's hard to do. I mean, I'm sure.
Dana Kadwell (42:33)
I feel very convicted by that statement.
Jonathan/VenueRx (42:36)
It's tough, but it's something I know that I'm doing it better now because my team has given me feedback that it's better. But yeah, it's definitely on the job of the leader to set that emotional tone and to share, guys, we are going to figure it out.
And I just, I think that it's, it is sometimes difficult, but yeah, how you want it to work out versus how it may work out are going to be two different things, but usually it ends up being for the better. As long as you're, you know, you've got, I would say, I would again, just go back to say, as long as you're mapping towards what you want or like, you're like, yeah. So if, if you start.
Dana Kadwell (43:05)
Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (43:22)
doing things based on like pressure from family members or You know, oh like FOMO
Like, like we have some really big things that we're looking at right now, like some pretty huge opportunities. And I am every day. I wake up stressed, not anything in the business, the business, there's a lot of things that probably would stress someone out. But my main stress is that if we don't take an opportunity here, we're going to miss the boat that everyone's going to take over the industry. I'm going out of business. Like it's that fear. And so you got to.
Dana Kadwell (43:31)
worst.
Yes,
Jonathan/VenueRx (43:59)
just quiet that voice and keep hoeing your own row, keep going. And it is so difficult. yeah, leaving that as kind of the 80, 90 % of what you do and then the 10 % flirting with the growth, seeing if it aligns with your values. Like that I think is, at least for me personally, a healthier place to be and from where to grow my company.
Dana Kadwell (44:20)
Yeah.
so many things. I wrote down so many things, but yeah, I totally, I am a FOMO person so intensely. And I think what's been so hard in a season of personal growth is you're trying to kind of re-correct the course a little bit. Like for me, I'm trying to re-correct my course. Like I'm trying to get on the path, you know, exactly what you said, like mapping towards ultimately what I want.
And it's hard when you're in those seasons where these opportunities are abundant and they are like bombarding you. And now you have to discern which ones do I take. And then there's some that are really hard to let go of. Like I have like two right now that I'm like, I have to let go of it because I know in my heart, I want to do it. I know my heart, it's a good investment, but I also know that I won't survive it. Like I just won't. Like it's, I will be sacrificing the last two years of my daughter's high school career.
not being present for that, like, I'm not ready for that. And I know that, like, I know that to my core, but like, I don't want to believe it. Like, I don't want to, I don't want to believe that I can't do it, you know? But yeah, I think that's so powerful. I mean, it really goes back to like, you're kind of weaving in these two concepts of, of patience, understanding, like where you want to go, but it's also really about being persistent about
laying down that foundation and walking that path that you are trying to walk, which I think for venues is super hard because you get kind of that, that squirrel, like, you know, distraction of do this thing, do that thing, invest in that, invest in this, get a photo booth, do all inclusive. And it's like, and you're gutturally are like, but I know what works. And so why am I hearing all of these things and everyone's fear mongering me, telling me that if I don't do this and I will stop getting clients and I will like,
And you're just bombarded with it, right? And I think for me, even walking into these two new venues, I've had to like, we were talking earlier just about chaos, like it felt chaotic. And finally I pulled them together. was like, what do we want to do here? Like, what is our vision? What is our mission? What's our service statement? Why are we here? And then every single time we're coming up with a hard conversation, we're filtering it back through that. Like, is this the venue we want to be known for as this?
how we want our clients to feel walking into this space. Is this our goal, right? And it's been so helpful to kind of reframe that, but it's so easy. It's so easy to get distracted into that FOMO. Am I doing the right thing? Should I be following what the next person's doing?
Jonathan/VenueRx (47:05)
Yeah.
I think that's where you really have to go into events, know, kind of circling it back to something like even the Venue Masterclass or, you know, a larger conference in Vegas or, you know, whatever else. Like you'll go there, you might walk the exhibit floor and someone wants to sell you up lights and you're like, oh, these could be cool. And then someone is like, you know, this photo booth, like you said, and let's add bar and we should do in
Dana Kadwell (47:35)
Great.
Jonathan/VenueRx (47:37)
house planning and all of that. And even if you should do in-house planning, but you're maybe in the first year of your business and you don't know a ton about the venue industry yet, like don't, don't, don't do that.
Dana Kadwell (47:49)
Yeah, don't do it. Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (47:50)
Yeah, it's a great opportunity. It's not right now. And I
Dana Kadwell (47:53)
Sorry.
Jonathan/VenueRx (47:54)
love what you said about the seasons thing. And that's a really tough pill, think, especially for parents to swallow. We love our kids so much, but then we also have dreams and aspirations and we want to do all this different stuff. And it's easy to position the opportunities that you get family wise or business wise at the center of resentment.
And it's either you're resenting the business for robbing you of the kids stuff, you're resenting the kids for robbing you of like business opportunities. I know that sounds weird, but hopefully that resonates for someone because I know I've experienced that before. And just kind of that feeling like you might have to make that trade off. Like, am I going to go to this game or I'm going to spend extra time developing this thing out that I'm passionate in the business? You weigh those options and you're like, this is the
12, 1200th game, you know, that I've gone to like, is this, but then you start doing what you did, which is like, Hey, I've got two more years of this. And then probably 40 years after of being able to do the business stuff. So prioritizing the seasons is, is a hundred percent something you have to take into context.
Dana Kadwell (48:56)
Yes. Yep.
Yeah, yeah,
I started, this was a couple years ago, and talk about this a couple, and a couple of talks I do, what you call the opportunity cost, That kind of old economics concept that there's no such thing as a free lunch, because even if I was to call you and say, hey, let's go to lunch, and I'll buy you lunch, it's not free, because you lost an hour of productivity, of time, or whatever, even though you could have gained, you know, insight, whatever, there's always something to be sacrificed. And when I started filtering,
all those decisions through that context, it really helped me understand what I was willing to sacrifice and not. I'm not like, I I love my children and I love to show up for them. I love watching Ada play basketball more than anything. I am like the loudest parent on the bench and my heart rate goes up and I love it. And I try to go as many as I can, but I also know that like if I need to go to like a NAIS meeting or something, I'm not gonna resent the fact that I couldn't go to that game because
I've already understood the sacrifice that I was making, right? And I knew it's like that kind of that seesaw of, okay, I missed the game today, which means I'm not going to go to the random happy hour on Thursday. So I go to that game. But before I just kind of went wherever I felt the most guilty, like wherever I felt like I wasn't showing up enough. And then I would miss something amazing, right? Because I didn't think through what I was actually deciding on.
Jonathan/VenueRx (50:19)
Yeah.
Dana Kadwell (50:29)
And so I've really started as a, my professional life kind of filtering that, but I actually applied that a lot to the new businesses too, because it's not just, I sacrificing my time for my family? But it's like, Hey, if we invest in trying to get this all inclusive setup, right? Like we're going to spend all this time, all this energy, what are we saying no to? We are saying no to refining our process for
the actual events that we have on the books. We're saying no to retraining our venue hosts. We're saying no to really impactful time in the office that we should be like, you know, looking at our SOPs, right? I'm not saying all inclusive isn't what we're gonna do, but the sacrifice of trying to push that through right now is too great to what we're trying to do in this moment. And I think every time an employee says we should do X-Vezium, like, I love it. What are we gonna have to say no to?
Like what do we have to sacrifice to make this happen? And sometimes the sacrifice totally worth it. Let's do it. All we're all in, but everyone understands what that sacrifice is. Like, and that's been really helpful to reframe us in like this. I, when you're in that season of like ideation, like kind of like all these ideas are coming at you all over, you know, it's been super helpful.
Jonathan/VenueRx (51:47)
Yeah, it's so true.
Dana Kadwell (51:49)
Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (51:51)
I'm curious when you're sharing this about your family and there's actually something that I've shared publicly or on a podcast before, but I've noticed a habit of myself and in myself when I am doing family stuff, it's super easy for me to get distracted with work stuff and then it reduces my enjoyment of the family thing and
Dana Kadwell (51:52)
Yes.
Jonathan/VenueRx (52:19)
Sometimes it happens similarly on the business side. Like I'm doing something business related and then there's some family thing. Maybe it's a game, maybe it's, you know, whatever that I have to say no to. And so I, I feel, I feel really stretched and I, and recently I've thought about this more and my solution for it. I maybe have to report back to see how it goes, but the solution has been really just as much as possible, not trying.
trying to multitask.
Dana Kadwell (52:52)
Mm.
Jonathan/VenueRx (52:52)
Like,
it's difficult because we live in a very multitask heavy world. I'm here in my home. I've got three of my seven kids at home. You know, I'm in, you know, a little podcast area that I've set up, but you can imagine like if I had the, the girls, you know, coming down and doing stuff and saying like, daddy, daddy, I want to show you this, you know, my new purse or whatever else, the little fun stuff they got for their birthday. I would have to say, no, I'm focusing with.
Dana here and then I'm hurting them. They're they're bummed, right? But I'm also creating a bad podcast with you. And so the point there is like in work or in the personal stuff, trying to separate, compartmentalize a little bit more. So when you are at the game, your heart rate is up. You are at the loudest parent. You are just so there so that you know that when you're also not going to be there, you're a hundred percent choosing that not from a place of guilt, but from a
Dana Kadwell (53:23)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah
Jonathan/VenueRx (53:52)
place of when I'm there, I'm going to invest everything I've got. And when I'm not there, I'm going to invest everything I've got over here. I'm not going to be like sacrificing the game time because I'm also checking stats or taking a call on my phone and not being loud and vice versa. When I'm in the meeting, trying to like check game changer and not paying attention to whatever's going on. Game changer is like the little app, you know, you can see the floor and what, but like, and, and I, and I struggle with that, but as much as possible, trying to compartmentalize and using your time wisely when
Dana Kadwell (54:12)
Right. Yes, it is.
Jonathan/VenueRx (54:22)
you do have the gaps, frees you up from that guilt later on.
Dana Kadwell (54:25)
Right? No, it's so true. And I also feel like for me, I really struggle with the idea that again, back to the seasonality things, like there are certain seasons of my life where I can't do that. Like I felt like last year I really struggled not multitasking, not because I wasn't so busy, but because my mind was so not all in anywhere. Like I wasn't all in at work. I wasn't all in at home because when I was at home, I was thinking about, you know, this thing I had like
this lawyer email, had that thing I had to do. And then when I was at work, then I'm, you know, trying to make sure that I'm actually showing up for the family because I was like super disconnected, like just so disconnected. And so there was like this and and then there was a point when I was talking with Sam and I was like, I just feel terrible. Like I'm failing in all fronts and not being a terrible parent, terrible business person, but whatever, you know, all the things. And he was just kind of like, you just got to let yourself
in those seasons, do what you need to do. He's like, if we're having dinner and you are so consumed by this email that you just got, he's like, go answer the email and then come back to dinner. Like, don't sit there and suffer because you're trying like focus, focus, focus. And what are you saying? Okay, well, let me ask you a math question. you know, he's like, just go deal with it and come back. Like, and that freedom for me was so helpful.
To be able to say like, yeah, my mind is and seasons where your mind is so distracted, it's hard to kind of make that boundary, just do what you need to do. And whether it's even sometimes it's like, hey, let me just write this note down to myself, like, and then I can put it down, then it's done, it's out of my brain. Cause you're so afraid to forget it, you know? And giving yourself that freedom too, because I do think there's times of life when it's impossible to do that because of whatever is going on. Anytime you have an employee you're gonna have to fire, that's all consuming.
It's emotionally consuming. Like you can't think about anything else. Like, and you're just dreading the conversation. You're trying to get all your ducks in a row. And like, you know, like those, those moments are, they're fleeting. They're a couple of days leading up to it, but you can't, you're not all in at home. Like you're just not, you're just not there. You're not present, you know? And I think that's okay too.
Jonathan/VenueRx (56:37)
Yeah.
Yeah, I totally agree with you. And I think for folks who are, you know, in, the middle of one of these seasons that we're talking about, you know, whether it's a like firing, know, you have to let someone go or you're in kind of like a nothing is working season or a distraction, just distracted season where you've got all these opportunities and you're trying to figure out which one to pick. you know, the, the North star for me has been just to clear out the noise, writing stuff down.
Dana Kadwell (57:08)
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan/VenueRx (57:08)
Because if I can just dump, verbally dump and use a tool like Whisper, or if you're not really as verbal as you are comfortable typing it down, writing it down, paper, pencil, whatever you need to do, get it off and say, I need to do this, I need to do this. Write some of those decisions down or write some of the opportunities down, make a little matrix.
you, you, the longer that you spend in indecision, the worse it gets. And, you know, there's other very smart people that have said, you know, a wrong decision is better than an unmade decision because you make the wrong decision. You can course correct, you know, you hire the wrong person. You might have to eat some of your ego a little bit because we all want to feel like we have the best team and we're good at hiring and all that. But, you know, just making that
decision and saying hey you know I made the wrong call here I don't feel like you're the right fit for the organization so we're gonna off-board you that is very difficult it's a difficult decision but you made the decision and now you're
Dana Kadwell (58:14)
Yes. Yes.
Yes.
Jonathan/VenueRx (58:16)
And so
I would, I would just say to push to, you're, if you're in one of those seasons, whether it is a nothing's working season or an opportunity season or whatever, like just keep going, just, just keep going, keep going, keep pushing through and know that it is temporary. And just like the, mountain tops where you feel like everything is, you're crushing it and you're receiving the accolades and the awards. You know, you can be humble in those moments because you know, you've had, had, you have had these like.
Dana Kadwell (58:28)
Yeah.
Jonathan/VenueRx (58:45)
polar opposite times. And I think that makes you a kinder person. You know, it makes you more willing to share the successes and the failures that you've had. makes your community better. and so that's, that's, I try to remind myself of the lows during the highs and then the highs during the lows to keep pushing through.
Dana Kadwell (58:46)
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
that is great advice. I love that. I just think that that resonates so much with that, like so much of that. it's so, it is so true. And I think sometimes the highs feel so high because the lows were so low, but you forget when you're in that low that you, that at one point you were there, like that you eventually crawled out of that hole and you climbed up that mountain and you made that success. And it's really, it's really easy to forget that. So I love that reminder. Thank you for that.
Jonathan/VenueRx (59:37)
Yeah, I'll, it's note to myself. I'll be playing it back.
Dana Kadwell (59:38)
You that today?
Okay, well, I, this has been amazing. I have loved this conversation. I feel like we could talk for a thousand years. We actually do talk way too much whenever we see each other. But I want to end on this question. what surprised you most about working with venues?
maybe starting this video management company was the thing that kind of just like really took you for a loop.
Jonathan/VenueRx (1:00:05)
Ooh, great questions. You know, okay, It's the first thing that popped into my head, which is we're all mad here.
Dana Kadwell (1:00:07)
I know.
Yeah, it's so
true though.
Jonathan/VenueRx (1:00:19)
It's,
it's whether you're managing a venue or owning a venue. literally like, I think we all suffer from some spectrum of insanity a hundred percent. So I'll just throw that out there. I'm glad you agree with me. I feel like I.
Dana Kadwell (1:00:29)
Insanity? Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Jonathan/VenueRx (1:00:39)
It's me and it's everyone else I work with too.
Dana Kadwell (1:00:41)
Yeah.
Well, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for your time today and all of your insight. It has been really, truly great.
Jonathan/VenueRx (1:00:48)
Awesome. I really appreciate it. Thanks so much, Dana.
Dana Kadwell (1:00:51)
Thank you so much for joining us for Gathered Here. To learn more about my new properties, be sure to follow us at McAlser Leftwich and at the Graham Mill. If you want to stay in the loop for all things Hustle and Gather, the venue masterclass, or our mastermind group, be sure to follow us on Instagram at Hustle and Gather. And for updates to the podcast and see all the fun things we're going to be doing this year, be sure to follow at Gathered Here Podcast. I'm your host, Dana Cadwell. Join us next time on Gathered Here.