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Finding ways to make your impact is tough. Brett Hollenbeck interviews a wide span of people to learn how they make their impact and the journey they took to find it. Spanning national best-selling authors to local community members who are taking on big projects making a difference, Brett covers similar topics in interview form. Each episode contains powerful information to help you grow personally and professionally, and find your path to make your impact!
Brett (00:01.598)
Welcome back to the Impact Code, where today we dive deep into the transformative power of nature and therapy with Zach Hazlett, a dynamic marriage and family therapist who you might know as the Outdoor Therapist. Born and raised among the stunning landscapes of Moab, Utah, Zach has uniquely combined his love for outdoors with his professional training in therapy. A graduate from Brigham Young University with a master's degree in marriage and family therapy, Zach is on a mission to infuse more kindness,
love and understanding into our lives through innovative therapeutic approaches. Zach's practice transcends traditional counseling rooms, taking therapy outside to harness the healing power of nature. His work not only rejuvenates the spirit, but also strengthens relationships, fostering deeper connections between individuals and their environments. Zach, it is such an honor to have you on the show, man. Welcome.
Zak Hazlett (00:53.192)
Thank you, thank you. I'm happy to be here. I'm excited for this one. I mean, I get excited for all podcasts, but anytime I can talk about how powerful healing is, I'm here for it.
Brett (01:05.054)
Yeah, and I think your approach to healing, Zach, is one that really resonated with me. I remember the first reel that I saw on Instagram, which is where I found you, and I remember just sensing and feeling the care and the love and the kindness that you had almost just emanating from this reel in a way that I hadn't really seen from many people before.
And I thought a great place to start today is like, why is that love and kindness so important and so centric to you and to the work that you do?
Zak Hazlett (01:42.568)
man, just I've got tears in my eyes already just feeling it because, uh, I mean, to, to, to start it off with where it all comes from is this all started with me trying to be the friend to myself that I needed in like my own hard times. And most of the things that I say and that I talk about on Instagram at least, um, and in therapy and whatever work we do is, is trying to be that. And I realized pretty early on that I,
have a gift of caring and a gift of kindness. And I wanted to share that with people. And so like what you said, what drew you in is like feeling how kind my messages come through. Like, I mean it. It's not a, it's not an act. It's not something just to get views. Like I'm, I want people to feel like I am there hugging them basically. Um, because that's what people need. There's lots of information in the world. There's lots of things to do. Everybody kind of knows like some things they want to work on.
but feeling like you are worth doing that work, that's what's hard. And so I saw a need for that. And I mean, I just started my Instagram account in January and have 130 ,000 followers now. And it's like, people need that love.
Brett (02:58.814)
Yeah, I think the growth rate alone shows that. Zach, why do you think that it is so difficult for us to be a friend to ourselves?
Zak Hazlett (03:10.535)
Oof, that's a big question. I just talked about this yesterday actually of inner child work is like a big one that I like to do where like you would never speak to a child the way that you speak to yourself sometimes. And the voice that you hear most often and loudest throughout your entire life is your own. And your body remembers what you say to it, the way you speak to it. And learning to recognize that like,
you can be your biggest cheerleader and your biggest support and your best friend is one of the most powerful recognitions or realizations that you can have. But yeah, it's difficult.
Brett (03:52.158)
It's difficult, yeah. And what are some of the things that you see commonly just standing in people's way of that? This is something that, transparently, I struggle with, I'm struggling with now. I feel like it's always been a bit of a battle for me. And there's times when I've done better, and there's times when it's been more difficult. I think the more difficult times tend to be like when things aren't going as well, or maybe I've made a big mistake that I feel like...
you know, has thrown my life off track in some way from what I wanted to achieve. What are some of the things that really stand in people's way of being able to do that?
Zak Hazlett (04:31.366)
Yeah, that's a good question. And my, my initial thought there was, um, kind of context and a narrative that we create. Like I think of sports, right? I grew up playing sports and I just knew that like, I needed to practice to become better and get to where I would constantly be getting better as I practiced. And because there's no expectation on like what you, you just know that you grow as you practice, you don't limit yourself. Whereas in life, I think we, we,
put this narrative up of like, I can't do this or I'm never gonna be able to do this or that's what someone else is capable of, but not me. Like we have all of these stories that we've told ourselves because of experiences and traumas, whatever you wanna call them. From the time we were little that basically like when we're tiny, I mean, when we're little kids, you see them running around with like no clothes on and they don't care. They say whatever because they don't have these expectations on them. And then as we grow up, as you get older, as little kids grow up,
They're conditioned to believe that they have to act a certain way or they have to do a certain job or, you know, become a certain thing in order to be good enough. And that sets up, sets us up for failure in a lot of ways. It sets us up to not feel like we can actually ever accomplish something. But when we can take that cap off and see it as like this entire life is an opportunity to grow and learn and become, there's no such thing as failure at that point.
It's, it's a whole idea of, of we don't ever, I mean, there's this quote, I think it's John Wooden or something, but I never lose. I either win or I learn. And like, that's what it's all about is like finding the little victories every day of like, I woke up, you know, like I literally, I woke up today. That is a win. And then the next thing, like I got out of bed. That's a win. Like instead of looking things like a deficit or a loss of like, I didn't do my, all the things on my to -do list.
Instead of looking at those things, you're like, oh, I won so many little things today. And guess what? Tomorrow I get to do the same thing and I get to win again. And a look back after two weeks, three weeks, a month, three months, a year, and the progress you make when you stop limiting yourself and looking at the deficit, you look at all the wins. That's, I think like the biggest thing that I've recognized in working with people is we got to stop looking at.
Zak Hazlett (06:57.285)
the things we're not doing and be grateful for the things we have and proud of the things we are doing.
Brett (07:05.694)
I couldn't agree more. And what a beautiful way to say that. It's so fascinating to me too, that there's just certain things that come up in your life at certain times and it feels like they're too coincidental, isn't really the right, they're too profound to be coincidental, right? And that quote, the first time I heard that quote was yesterday, believe it or not.
that you either, you either win or you learn. And then I was like, man, what a quote. I actually wrote it down in my journal. I was thinking about it last night and like thinking about, okay, instead of thinking of today as wins and losses, I'm going to talk about like in my journal, what are the things that were wins that I'm grateful for? And what are the things that I'm learning through the experiences that I'm going through, even if they're challenging. And so to hear you talk about that quote today, uh, kind of, kind of brings it full circle, man. And it's so interesting how sometimes.
Things just repetitively pop into our lives and you're like, this is a lesson I need to learn right now.
Zak Hazlett (08:08.261)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one of the most powerful things that we can realize is like a mistake is only a mistake if you refuse to correct it. Right. If you refuse to learn from it and grow other than that, it's literally just a learning experience. Cause like humans make mistakes. If you don't ever try something and fail, then you're not ever going to learn. But I think the fear of trying is pretty crippling and the fear of.
what people might think about me if I fail or if I mess up, right? And we can talk about this more later, but the people who are truly meant to be in your life will celebrate you when you try and fail and they'll boost you up and pick you up and help you learn from it. People who are not going to be in your life or shouldn't be are the people who bring you down and point fingers and say, ha ha, you suck, you know? And so learning to not worry about those people because they're not your people.
and just focus on the people that are, because ultimately the way that other people see you and treat you 99 .9 % of the time, probably even 100 % of the time, is because of their own struggle or their own things that they're going through and dealing with. And that's why they treat you that way. Has nothing to do with you, right?
Brett (09:29.886)
Yeah, it can feel really personal though sometimes, right? Like there's times when I could consciously know that, but it can still hurt. And sometimes I think that is a reflection of having the wrong people in my circle, right? There are some people that I know in my circle, even now, that are probably not the right people to walk alongside me into the next stage of progress and dreams, but there's...
There's this part of me sometimes that has difficulty like letting go of people. I feel like maybe I'm abandoning them or like I'm letting them down or I'm responsible for helping them. And I don't know if that's something that you see pretty commonly, but that I feel like that's one of the biggest struggles in my life because I dealt with abandonment issues as a kid. And so like now it's like, I feel like that person, if I'm moving on from someone, does that make any sense at all?
Zak Hazlett (10:27.269)
Yeah, yeah, no, I think where it's like, you don't want to be that to someone else. Like, you know what it's like to feel abandoned. You know what it's like to be alone. And so the last thing you want to do is cause that same pain in someone else.
Brett (10:39.262)
Yeah.
Zak Hazlett (10:44.805)
And so, I mean, what I would say to that is.
Zak Hazlett (10:51.493)
I don't know, there's a lot of directions to go, but mostly there's a, there's a big difference. And I think this is something being talked about and understood more now where boundaries, right? We've all heard the term boundaries. Like, what does that mean? And we're so afraid of setting a boundary because it might hurt someone or it might offend them. Like if, if we set this boundary of like, I need some space or I need some time, whatever it is. When in reality, like boundaries are set for people we want to keep in our lives. Right.
And it, and it makes it healthier so that we're able to love them and we're able to be loved by them. Cause right now it's not, it's not working. There's something going on. That's like just causing so much stress and anxiety to both parties. And so setting boundaries that are thoughtful because you care. Right. And just knowing like, and trusting I'm doing this because I care about you, not because I don't want you in my life. If I didn't want you in my life, I would just cut you off completely. Right. And so.
really changing the script of like what you, how you view it in your head of like, I'm not doing this to abandon them and really telling yourself that of like, I'm doing this because it's gonna help me be able to help them and be there for them.
Brett (12:06.59)
I love that change in perspective. And I think it kind of goes back to that idea that like, not every idea that we have in our head is 100 % true, right? Like it feels true to me in those moments that like, that I'm being unkind or that I'm abandoning someone if maybe they've shown me repeatedly that they're not going to be someone that moves forward in my life in a healthy way. But there's also this, this part of me that's like, that understands that that's probably not.
Zak Hazlett (12:29.829)
Yeah.
Brett (12:36.062)
Entirely true like there may be like maybe small pieces of truth in there, but it's not entirely true One of the things I'm curious Zach is you because you have I mean like you said you have blown up on on social Really out of almost, you know almost nowhere From from just starting your account to you know, having over 100 ,000 followers in a very very rapid time period Has this been something that you've had to sort of elevate your game on?
like, because I'm sure you have a ton of like requests and a ton of people like now reaching out for personal advice and one -on -one help. And how has this sort of come to fruition in your life recently?
Zak Hazlett (13:17.253)
Yeah. Um, it's kind of something I had been, I had been preparing for, for the last few years. I just, I knew I wasn't in the space I wanted to be, to be authentic and real on social media. I'm like, I need, I still need, and we always have work to do. Like I still have plenty of work to do, but I'm in, I'm in a place now where it's like, I feel confident and comfortable with who I am, with what I have to share. I'm educated. I've done the work and now I want to share.
And so I kind of just went all in and I mean, I made a goal in January, like I want a hundred thousand followers by the end of the year. I've made a plan of how to do it. I'm going to post every day. I'm going to be real and genuine. Like I'm not going to try and just like do things for likes or whatever the trendy things, just because like, I'm going to just do what I want to. And so yeah, it attracts people that are drawn to real and authentic, but I think it's funny because.
I haven't gotten a lot of hate, but I've gotten some hate of people that I think it's more of like a discomfort with like something or someone that is emotional and, and real and not afraid to share those things when if you have something inside of you that you want to be, but you aren't there yet, it can be a little bit of a pain point, right?
And so anyway, I wanted to get to a place where I was able to feel good about all of that. And there has been a lot of requests and things and I've tried to, I mean, for the first month I responded to every comment and every message that I got on every post until like I got to like a hundred thousand followers pretty much. And it was crazy. I'd get messages from people that were like, is this really you or is this like a bot or is this someone you hired? Cause.
Brett (14:42.974)
Yeah.
Brett (15:00.094)
Wow.
Zak Hazlett (15:10.533)
If it is you, that is crazy. I see you responding to everyone and I'm like, it's really me and I really care. And now I've, I mean, I've set some boundaries and I'm like, okay, I'm not going to respond to everyone. It's impossible as things get bigger, but I do try and be there for, for people. And I don't respond to DMS that are asking personal questions, like a therapy thing, because ethics wise, like I don't know their whole story. I don't know the context of everything. It's impossible to know without actually meeting. And so I can't give them good feedback or advice.
Brett (15:11.998)
Hahaha.
Brett (15:16.126)
Yeah, yeah.
Zak Hazlett (15:40.453)
But I will give them support. I'll be like, hey, sounds like you're going through a tough time. You know, keep working, keep loving yourself. You got this, right? And I can't, sometimes I'm like, I wish I could do more. And I'm like, I have to remember that I don't owe anyone on social media anything. And for everyone listening, you don't owe anything to anyone on social media. You don't owe them a follow. You don't owe them a response to their story or whatever. If there's someone that...
Brett (15:43.55)
Mm -hmm.
Brett (15:50.654)
Yeah.
Brett (15:58.494)
Mm.
Zak Hazlett (16:07.621)
you follow that makes you feel bad about yourself or whatever, like unfollow them. You don't owe them anything. So just a plug because I hate how social media makes us feel like we owe them that follower, that comment or whatever. You don't. If you want to unfollow me, unfollow me. Doesn't matter. Like you don't owe me anything either.
Brett (16:23.486)
Yeah.
Brett (16:26.942)
Yeah, I think that's an important message today though, because it does. The social media sort of context and environment has become its own thing with its own set of norms. And there, in some ways they don't parallel the real world and they should, there should be similar types of boundaries and similar types of norms, but people will say things on social media that they might not say.
to someone face to face ever, or even in like a text message ever, or have an expectation that wouldn't follow in real life. And so it's kind of a bizarre world where people aren't always acting as they might act in other areas of life.
Zak Hazlett (17:09.413)
Yeah, no, it really is. And that's the other thing that I had to get to a point where if I did get hateful comments or something, I wouldn't take it personally. And there's actually, this is a really funny story. Um, one of my first reels that went crazy, um, it was like, I said, like, you have to forgive them, not because what they did was okay. And not because you're not going to let them back in your life, but because the weight that you're carrying by holding onto it is keeping you from moving forward. Right.
And there's controversy there because if you're in, and I put this as a disclaimer in the, in the caption of like, this does not apply to like a narcissistic abusive relationship. It doesn't apply to, like, you don't have to forgive immediately and social media. It's like, no message is perfect for everyone. And so anyway, I got some hate on that. And this one guy kind of like trolled and commented on every single person's like supportive comment would just like be negative. And.
Brett (17:39.486)
Hmm.
Brett (18:06.878)
Oh no. Yeah.
Zak Hazlett (18:07.877)
And I like would like his comments every time and respond to him and be like, Hey man, appreciate the comment or like whatever. And eventually like people were defending me with him. And then like, I think part of the reason it went viral is because like all the back and forth. And so I had, I messaged him directly and I was like, Hey man, I appreciate, like, I have to say, like, I have to thank you for all your comments. Cause I think it actually helped this take off.
Brett (18:25.982)
Yeah.
Zak Hazlett (18:37.029)
And so then he responded and was like, yeah, I guess I kind of like by, by disagreeing and commenting on everything, I actually like perpetuated the message. So interesting. And we had this dialogue back and forth a little bit and I ended up talking to him a little bit more and he opened up a little bit. And then like, he's like, Hey, if you're ever in Miami, come say hi. And now it's like, if I go to Miami, like I'm like, we'll go grab lunch. And it was just like the coolest interaction because it was just, it was this crazy thing where.
Brett (18:38.334)
Yeah.
Brett (18:58.558)
Hmm.
Zak Hazlett (19:08.613)
If you can actually get to know someone and understand them, which you can rarely ever do on social media, but like there's a quote by Abraham Lincoln. It's like one of my favorite quotes where it's, I do not like that man. I must get to know him better. And when we really understand someone, obviously we have to have boundaries and like people that are toxic and like hateful. We don't need to love them. We don't need to like be their best friend, but when we understand what they're going through,
Brett (19:23.966)
Hmm.
Zak Hazlett (19:37.157)
It makes it much easier to humanize them and, you know, be like, okay, they're a person that's struggling and their actions and behaviors are because of that, not because of me. Whereas when they're just this name on a screen and they're trolling or they're saying these things, we take it personally because it's just words and they're not a human. Right. But anyway, social media is just interesting, but I feel like that's like a story. I'll put that in a book someday where it's like,
Brett (20:00.35)
Yeah.
Zak Hazlett (20:05.669)
you really can resolve so many things in life when you come from a place of seeking to understand rather than just defend or, or, you know, justify your position.
Brett (20:21.694)
Wow, yeah, that's powerful. And I think like the thing I've seen in my life with that is like just this idea of curiosity instead of coming in from a place of knowing it's like this place of like humility and wondering just like, you know, what is the story behind this? Or like, why does this person think this way? And then just asking questions. And honestly, the podcast has been a great avenue for that too, because just having conversations with people and.
learning to like see different points where I can ask a question if I don't understand something has been like so helpful for me in like building that as a toolkit, but it's still, it's hard when like the walls go up or like when defenses start to come up, like to really approach through like openness and curiosity versus like defending my point and like trying to show that I'm right here and like that that wasn't what I meant or like validating my own state.
and my own ego.
Zak Hazlett (21:21.765)
Yeah, no, but I love that. That's like curiosity, seeking to understand, trying to know like where the other person's at. I mean, I'm a marriage and family therapist. Most of the work I do is with couples and relationships and probably 90 % of the time, you know, there's, there's this thing where it's like 70 % of problems in a relationship. I don't know if this is perfectly statistically correct, whatever, but are not going to change.
Right? Like you're not going to actually like change those, but you're going to learn to understand why those things are happening. And then you learn to work with it. And like, that's a huge thing to realize of like, Oh, most of the time the way like, Oh, they're not, they're not, you know, responding to me or they don't talk to me enough. And so like we, we can't communicate it's irreparable. No, that's not the case. It's like, there's a reason why they're not responding. And so if we can understand that, then it's like, Oh, I don't take it personally anymore because I know that they just don't talk a lot.
or whatever the reason is, right? There's any number of scenarios we could talk through, but something you said actually reminded me of something where emotions and things that we feel are data points. Like it's information. And when we can intellectualize it a little bit, and I have to be careful. We have a lot of men following your podcasts and stuff. And so like men are usually pretty good at intellectualizing. And so maybe lean into the emotion a little bit more, but when we can look at it of like,
Brett (22:47.07)
Yeah, yeah.
Zak Hazlett (22:48.549)
Okay, I'm feeling anxious. I'm feeling stressed. I'm feeling overwhelmed. Like there's a reason you're feeling all of those things. And so when we look at it like that, I'm like, okay, I can get something from this. What can I learn from this? What's going on around me? What was my interaction like with my partner? You know, what, what's, what is life looking like? Oh, we're in COVID right now. Like, of course I'm going to have heightened anxiety because the world is shut down. You know what I mean? Like so many people discounted that they're just like, I'm feeling so anxious. I'm like, okay, well.
First off, let's talk about it. Like this is unprecedented. You've never been here before. So of course you're going to be dysregulated, right? Anyway, with emotions, like the more we can recognize and be like, okay, I have something that I can learn from this. And especially in the context of someone says something or someone does something, I respond a certain way. I get defensive. I get, you know, reactive. That tells you a lot about where you need to work.
Brett (23:20.318)
Yeah.
Brett (23:42.878)
Hmm.
Zak Hazlett (23:48.357)
And that's what's the hardest part is it's not always the other person's fault. And the idea of, of accountability, like, yes, in order to change, you have to take accountability for what is yours. Right. And you also have to let go of the blame of what is not yours. And so finding that balance of letting go of things that aren't yours to take us accountability for, but also taking accountability for, okay, I could have responded a different way.
Brett (23:49.278)
Yeah.
Zak Hazlett (24:16.645)
what can I do differently next time? You know, how can I change things in my own life? And doing that work is what's expected. And then in the other person, they're hopefully gonna be doing the same thing. And that's how relationships heal and grow.
Brett (24:33.918)
Yeah, that's such a man. That's such a big one. It's just like this idea of when I'm feeling something in response to something that has happened in my life, there's there is a cause. And sometimes it's so easy to get sucked into the thing that's happening that you become a part of it and you can't step back and actually understand like, why is this happening? What is it that's going on inside of me or what is it about?
what the other person said or did that is causing this type of reaction within myself. I saw a quote yesterday that I thought was really fascinating that was your triggers show you where you're not yet free, right? And it's like this idea of the things that are still activating me emotionally are probably areas that I still have some growth to do and some work to do in myself. And I think there's definitely exceptions to that. But I think,
I know in my life that that is often the case, that it is something that maybe is a repetitive pattern. Does someone else like I've seen this before, right? And it's like, it may not be the thing that I saw before, but my body recognizes it. And it's like, Oh no, like red alert, like this is dangerous. It's a dangerous situation. And so taking the time to actually like unpack those things and understand those things teaches me then about myself, about my past and about how I can move forward.
in a healthier way in relationship with the people around me.
Zak Hazlett (26:03.877)
Yes, yes. I amen to that. I mean, I just want to like reiterate what you just said, because for everyone listening, like that is huge. Like recognizing that when you are triggered by something or when something upsets you, like most of the time it's not even what the other person is doing. That is the problem. There's something within you and your reaction to that. And I have to caveat because people listening will be like, okay, what about when you're being abused or a narcissist? I'm like,
Obviously this is not applying to everything. Like a lot of times too, it is not your fault. How someone ever treats you is never your responsibility. Like if they treat you poorly, like that is not your fault. Okay. But the way we respond to some things that when we're not being abused or not being, anyway, when it's not as like extreme, but it's just like something that is annoying to you or whatever, most of the time it's something that reminds you of some insecurity within yourself or,
Brett (26:35.454)
Correct, yep.
Zak Hazlett (27:03.909)
something that you need to work on. And as you work on that and become stronger and do some growth, some healing and grow, like you said, those things won't, won't, you won't react to them nearly as much, you know, like a hateful comment on Instagram. When you're secure with where you're at, you're going to understand like, Oh, they're probably going through a lot and it's literally not even in a phase you. Whereas before it might've destroyed your whole day. Right. And so that's, that's the big realization.
Brett (27:27.742)
Yes.
Brett (27:31.742)
I love that. And I do appreciate the caveat there too. I do think that's an important one for people listening is like those extreme situations are an exception to the things that we're talking about here. Zach, what do you think like shows you when you're working with somebody, what are some of the signals or signs that they're on the right path towards becoming?
because I think it's a continual path, but that they're on the right path to becoming like a mentally healthy person or a more mentally healthy person.
Zak Hazlett (28:08.485)
That's a good question. I don't know if I've ever been asked that. Um, I would say.
someone who is able to recognize that they have things to change and also feel like they, and they value themselves enough to put forth the work to make those changes. I think that's like a good indicator where I think lots of people recognize where they're at, but don't think that they deserve to change or grow or that that's just how they are.
And so they're still in the spot of like, we're lacking some self -compassion. I think self -compassion, self -love is the driving force behind change and growth that happens within us. And we're all really good at criticizing ourselves. We really like for the most part, most people know what they need to do or what they want to change. And most people don't have the self -belief or self -love to feel like they're worth changing it.
or that they have it within them to do it. And I will say, I will always say this to everyone always like change and growth is not about becoming something that you aren't. It's about unbecoming all the things that you have conditioned yourself to believe. It's about removing those, those beliefs and those false narratives of who you're supposed to be. And slowly piece by piece revealing that real authentic.
version of you, like the little kid inside of you. And that's where the work is done. It's not by doing more. It's honestly by doing less and letting go of the things that aren't you. And that's one of like the biggest realizations I think that people have is they try and like go to yoga every day or the gym or do all of these things that'll like make them feel better. And all of those things are great. Like I do a lot of those things. I like to do those things, but the real work and the real growth came from recognizing the things that I didn't.
Zak Hazlett (30:13.413)
want to be a part of me or that like weren't aligned with who I wanted to be and slowly doing the work to let go of those things. And that's easier. Like I think it's easier. It's harder and easier, harder in some ways because harder to recognize some of that, but easier in the sense of like, you don't have to go do a bunch of things, right? It's more just recognizing it and then starting to shift direction of where you want to go and who you want to be and do little things in that direction.
That then kind of leaves the other part of you behind that part of you that that has been there for so long that you want to let go of. And so a big word, my word for 2024 has been alignment and really figuring out like, what do I want? Like, what kind of person do I want to be? Are my actions lined up with that type of person? Like, am I being honest with my friends and with the people around me? Am I being real and authentic showing up as a raw version of myself? Because that's who I want to be.
And the more time we spend trying to become what other people think we should be, the further we get from becoming who we actually are. And the further and further we get from the feeling of being comfortable with ourselves.
Brett (31:28.126)
Wow. Yeah. This resonates with me, Zach, because there's like, I feel like for a very long time in my life, I made all the decisions that I thought everyone around me wanted me to make. And I feel like that's really, that was like my survival. And everyone else told me that I had everything that I should have to be happy. And I wasn't feeling like internally, I was like, man, this is just like, I know this is not aligned. This is not exactly what.
I'm wanting, but everyone around me was like, dude, you have everything. You have literally everything that you could, could want to be happy. And I remember like the, some of the choices along that path where I started to let go of some of what I felt like other people wanted to me to be. Like at first it was like, Oh my gosh, what are you doing, man? Like you're, you're like making these mistakes, but I remember feeling like, Oh my gosh, like I have room to breathe. Now this is like, I feel more myself than I've ever felt. And.
Zak Hazlett (32:17.637)
Yeah.
Brett (32:25.79)
It was really interesting because that was always one of my biggest fears was like letting the people around me down. I felt like I owed them like success. I owed them like inspiration. I owed them like, um, maybe like showing that something could be done. That was like really difficult, but I think the thing that I needed to do that was the most difficult was like face letting go of other people's perception of me. And the first time that it happened in it, like,
Zak Hazlett (32:52.229)
Hmm.
Brett (32:56.03)
sort of went like public and people were messaging me. I remember thinking like, like I was getting messages where people were like, man, I think you're making a really big mistake with this one. And I was like, Oh, this was the thing I was so afraid of. And I remember feeling this, like this feeling of relief because I was like, man, this thing that I was always so afraid of, this was it. I faced it and I got the feedback that I was afraid to get. And I was like, Oh, that wasn't as bad as I thought. I'm still here. I feel better about myself now.
And I can move forward in a way where I know I can face the worst of what I wanted to face. So it was a really interesting sort of time in my life where I learned a lot about myself and where I was able to face these things that I had always been so terrified to face.
Zak Hazlett (33:43.271)
Wow, that's powerful. Yeah. It sounds like you did a lot of peeling back the layers and like, and, and each of those layers was something that someone else wanted you to be. And so like, it's like disappointed, disappointed, disappointed. It's like every layer you feel like you're disappointing someone. Oh man, that's powerful. Um, that reminds me of like this, uh, this is a, this is a hard hitting truth, but you will never feel.
Brett (33:56.286)
Yeah, I think it's a.
Brett (34:01.822)
Yes.
Yes.
Zak Hazlett (34:13.35)
good enough for the wrong people, but you will always be good enough for the right people. Always, no matter what you do.
Brett (34:27.934)
I absolutely love that.
Zach, another one that I saw that, cause you have a lot of these and to anyone listening, I'm absolutely going to link to Zach's social. You need to go give him a follow, go check out his page. Like check out the work that he's doing. A lot of his work is this, like it's these hard hitting truths that may be hard to face. And, and like you said earlier, maybe they don't apply to every single situation. You have to know that going in. Uh, but a lot of them I think are very applicable to, to the masses, to the majority of people.
And one that I watched this morning as it was just kind of preparing for today, uh, was a recent one you did, uh, where it started out saying you won't feel stuck forever. And that one made me emotional because I, there is this part of me. And I think a lot of people, probably a lot of people listening to where when things are difficult in your life, it's hard to remember. It's not going to be like that forever. And you won't be stuck forever. Why was, why was that message important to you to get out into the world?
Zak Hazlett (35:30.022)
Yeah, that one actually came from Michelle Clark on Instagram where I read it and immediately it was like overcome with emotion. And I mean that whole like, you won't feel stuck forever. You won't always have that sinking like pit in your stomach feeling. And when your moment of clarity arrives, you will feel that, that you can move forward, that you, yeah, you belong, that you matter.
Brett (35:39.358)
Yeah.
Zak Hazlett (35:57.83)
Right. And that everything is working for you. That's basically like the message. And it was just powerful for me because I mean, most literally all of my messages, like I said, like, there are all things I say to myself. Like there are things I've written in my journal. There are things that, or there are things that people have said to me that have changed my life. Like I'm not trying to like, I don't know, say anything crazy profound. I'm just like, Hey, if I, if I needed a friend or when I've gone through hard things, like this is what I need to hear. Um, and.
I just think that one and many of my messages are very much like, Hey, life is, life is not happening to you. It's happening for you. Like what is meant for you will, will not pass you by. Like you're going to arrive where you need to be and learning to trust that. I'm a big believer in affirmations. I think affirmations are a little cheesy sometimes and like, Oh, a little woo woo, you know, but, but like,
We go in the direction, we, we arrive in the direction we are facing, you know, that whole analogy of riding a bike. And if I'm like looking off to the side, I'm eventually going to like swerve off and crash to the side because you naturally kind of shift there. So if you believe that life will never change, then life will never change. Right? Like because you're going to looking, you're going to be looking for reasons why it's staying the same. But if you believe that you're, you deserve better, that you deserve better in a relationship.
that you deserve a better job. And then you trust that as you put in the work and do the little things each day, you trust that that's going to happen for you. You're, you're, you're facing the direction you want to go. And it is inevitable that you will be going towards those things. And at some point you will arrive there. Yeah. The timing isn't perfect. We don't know exactly when those things are going to happen and we can't control that, but we can control our direction. We can control our intention.
And that is what life is all about. It's not about perfection. It's not about, you know, controlling all the variables. It's about controlling what we can facing the direction we want to go and moving forward little by little. And sometimes forward means back. And that's what people have to realize too. And that's what I had to realize is like, I've taken some great steps forward at times and I have fallen flat out on my butt and, and, and been stuck and down for the count. And that's part of it.
Brett (38:05.406)
Yeah.
Same.
Zak Hazlett (38:17.414)
And that's part of the healing and growing because every time you stand back up, you're stronger. You've learned something. You know what to avoid next time. You know what kind of relationships are not good for you, but you would never know if you never tried. And that fear of failure is something that keeps people from moving forward way too often. Failure is a gift. Failure is something that like we should all be so grateful for because through those failures is how we learn and how we grow.
Brett (38:46.654)
And that one made me a little bit emotional. I think partially just because I have spent a lot of time recently focusing on the past and coming off some personal failures in my life and trying to, I tend to be a person who ruminates on things and thinks about, oh, if I would have done this differently or I would have done that differently. And...
I had recently Sean Swarner on the podcast and I think his episode actually releases after, so it'll be coming up for people who are listening, the episode with Sean Swarner. And one of the things that was really apparent in that episode with him was that, man, like I've been just spending too much time like looking in the rear view mirror and trying to look backwards. And there's this analogy of like being in a car.
And like the windshield is so much bigger than the rear view mirror because you just spend most of your time like looking at the windshield. And then if you even zoom out a little further, like the car is actually like the biggest space of all, right? Because like being in where you are right now is the most important place to be. And then spend some time looking down the road and seeing what's up ahead with like affirmations, like you said, and like visualization and feeling like who you want to be. And then a little bit of a time, like you got to know what's behind you. You got to spend some time there, but.
I think my car was the past and ruminating. And so hearing you talk about that, man, it resonates with me. And I really appreciate you sharing all of your wisdom on that topic. It means a lot.
Zak Hazlett (40:20.326)
I appreciate that. And I, and I appreciate your vulnerability. I think that's a big example too. I mean, fellas out there, like I'm going to tell you right now, I work with a lot of couples. I work with a lot of guys, work a lot of people and you can absolutely be emotional and be strong. Right. See bum, you know, on Instagram, Mr. Mr. Universe, like yesterday on Lewis house podcast, they posted about how he.
Brett (40:41.534)
Yeah. Yeah.
Zak Hazlett (40:48.388)
does the work, he goes to therapy, you know, he gets emotional and, and, you know, cries about his inner child and how he treated himself for so long. And he, his vulnerability was really powerful. I was really inspired by that because he is touted by so many as like this big, strong macho human. And I bet if I asked him, what is your biggest strength and the strength you're most proud of? I am, I guarantee he would say something along the lines of how I'm able to care about the people close to me.
Brett (41:07.774)
Yeah.
Zak Hazlett (41:18.851)
or the space that I'm able to create that's safe for them. And so once again, like everybody listening, like I promise you, as you, as you lean into some of those emotions and be like, okay, it's okay to feel this. It's not a weakness. You can, you can be, you can be, you know, bench 350 pounds. And if, if you can't create a space that's safe for people to be there emotionally, it doesn't matter how strong you are. The, the, the idea and the ideal and the goal of life is to create a space that's both.
safe and protected physically and emotionally. Um, and I think that vulnerability that you have, Bradley, just wanted to like commend you for that where like, it's an example. It's inspiring to me and to, to so many people of letting yourself be seen about that.
Brett (42:03.23)
Thank you very much, man. So Zach is, as you're thinking about this idea of strength, and it's funny, Chris was actually here in Franklin where I'm based pretty recently. He came to, there's a gym here called Carbon and he was there and I didn't get to go that night. I was so disappointed. He just gave a little talk. But I do find him like an incredibly inspirational, strong person.
Zak Hazlett (42:24.484)
Oh, dang it.
Brett (42:34.334)
How do you define a strong relationship? So when you're thinking about, and I'll just kind of broaden it and let you interpret the word relationship to whatever style or type of relationship, but what are kind of the key ingredients of a strong relationship?
Zak Hazlett (42:53.252)
Yeah. Um, that's a great question. I mean, every therapist that works with couples is going to have like a little bit of a different answer, but I think something that I've seen across the board that is indicative of a strong relationship is selflessness. Um, and I don't mean losing yourself in the care for others because one of the most painful things is recognizing that you have lost touch with who you are because you've tried to like,
love and get someone to love you. I'm talking selflessness and finding someone else who also is selfless and sees you and cares about you for who you are. And you can support one another in those things. So you're both being supported. You're taking care of yourself, but you're also being taken care of and you're allowing them to see your weaknesses. And you're also using your strengths to build them up and to build yourself up. And so I think selflessness is a, is a big one in.
creating a strong relationship. And I'm mostly not just strong, but like successful, like most relationships end because they stop worrying and caring about the other person and focus too much on themselves. And so it's important to find the balance of, yes, you have to take care of yourself and you are first and foremost your priority because if you are down for the count, you can't do anything for someone else. So you got to take care of your health, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, whatever that looks like.
and then use that strength that you've created to help take care of the people around you. And another big one is I posted about this like on Monday, but like people are not problems to be solved or broken things to be fixed. No one, no one wants to be fixed. People want to be loved and the way to love someone is be present with them and understand them. So the next thing I would say is like seeking to understand that curiosity that you talked about earlier, right? The, the,
If I understand someone like so many times people come into like a session for a couple's therapy and like they're fighting, they're at each other's throats and they're just like, ah, she just doesn't care about me or she's crazy and like doesn't want to, you know, listen to me or do anything I want to do. And I'm just like, okay, let's pause for a second. And I, you know, take a step back. Let's, let's practice asking questions to try and understand and not saying things to try and prove a point.
Zak Hazlett (45:15.94)
And all we're going to do this entire next hour, we're going to ask questions. We're going to listen. We're going to see what the, your partner says. And then we're going to ask a follow -up question. You know, I'm going to be like, Hey, you know, but how are you doing? You're going to respond and be like, uh, I'm not feeling super great. And then you're going to be like, okay, I, you know, I didn't realize you were feeling so down. What's, what's been going on. And then you will say like, you know, I've, I've been really feeling alone lately and like,
that I haven't been, you know, cared for. And then I'm going to respond with, Oh man, I didn't realize you were feeling that way. It sounds like you're feeling pretty lonely. Like what else have you been feeling? Another question. Then they're going to be like, I, you know, frankly, like with work has been less than satisfying. My relationship with my family hasn't been the greatest. Like all of a sudden they're opening up, right? What we thought was them like hating us because they didn't talk to us was actually them like struggling at work.
Was them having struggles with their family communication and, and relationships and was them feeling like we weren't giving or there for them. And it wasn't cause we don't care, but we just didn't know. And so as we learn these things, it's, it's my next follow up question. I can be like, man, that's really hard. And I didn't, you know, I didn't know that's what you were going through. How can I be there for you better? You know, what can I do to make that part of your life easier?
And then they can give you something, but you don't tell people what to do. You love them so that they're willing to ask you and vice versa. Right. And then the hope is that the other person, when you create, like somebody kind of has to start that it's rare when both partners are like all in, like realize that and it's perfect. But once that person and, and fellas, like, I'm going to talk to you. Cause most of the time and what I see, we are the ones that are, that have to start that we kind of have this.
position of power in, in just because of the way that things are. Right. And so if we can create that space first, that's emotional, that's safe, where people can feel how much we care. Then they'll be able to open up to us. Then we'll understand a lot more. We'll know what to do. So instead of assuming and walking on eggshells and trying to figure out what's going on and tiptoe around it, we can know for certain. And then from there they can check in with us, you know, how are you doing? How are you feeling? What's going on for you?
Zak Hazlett (47:40.676)
That's what creates solid relationships, but it's scary because also what happens if we open up and they lash out, right? And something I stand by and will always say is no hard conversation or question for clarity will ever ruin something that's meant for you, right? So we gotta get rid of that fear.
It's only gonna open up a conversation and a dialogue that then will add clarity to our life and will make things easier to move forward. If not, we're just kind of going through the motions and living parallel lives and it's never gonna be satisfying. So if you really want the satisfying relationship, we gotta learn how to communicate that. And this is my plug for therapy or couples therapy, coaching, whatever you wanna do. Like you learn things. We don't learn from the time we're little, like we don't learn how to talk to people. We don't learn how to like.
Brett (48:36.478)
right?
Zak Hazlett (48:37.092)
you know, like emotionally connect with someone. Some people are maybe a little more, have a higher EQ and are a little more naturally capable of it. But there's no class about that in high school and college. Like you just learn from your interactions. And so if all you know is to like be a little bit harsh with how you converse and like just say your piece and then like move on with life, like that's how you're going to do it. But guess what? Just like anything in life, the more you practice something, the better you get at it.
and if you really care about relationships, you're gonna be willing to do the work.
Brett (49:15.358)
Man, that's a great answer. There's so much important stuff there. And I think Zach, I almost want to switch directions a little bit here. And I'd love to, I'd love to talk about your journey. And one of the things I think that's fascinating about you and about what you do that people should know, uh, kind of relates to your handle on Instagram, which is the outdoor therapist and.
So can we talk just briefly about what is an outdoor therapist?
Zak Hazlett (49:49.764)
Yeah. It's kind of, it's funny. I came up with that name because I was just like, I want to just be outside forever. And so if I can figure out how to like do therapy outside, I mean, I was, so my parents met as river guides in Moab back in the eighties, cute love story, big rainstorm. They like were training to be river guides and they shared the space underneath the table to hide from the rain. Right. And that was like their first conversation.
Brett (50:18.366)
That's awesome. Wow.
Zak Hazlett (50:19.876)
And then from there they spent the summer together. And then like, and so I was, I was born and raised by the river basically, and by river guides and people. And so every year school would, school would end. And from the time I was old enough to like know what we were doing, basically school would end and I'd come and I would hang out with families from Europe and New York and wherever that are coming on the river. I would just like join the trips with my parents as the guides. And then as time went on, they bought the company from the old owner.
And I would go out as like a 14, 15 year old and I would spend four days on a rafting trip with random strangers and families. And like the river guides that are like college students, I was just like a helper. Like I just would set up tents and you know, make sure the garbages were taken out and like set up the toilet out there and like the camp and like do all the like little stuff that I felt so much meaning in it. But I just learned and saw people out in nature.
So I saw families that would come and day one they'd be kind of struggling. And by the end of the day, four or five, whatever it was, however long the trip was, they like are laughing together and having a good time and they reconnected. And my whole life, I mean, I've spent years collectively, like I think I figured it out and it's, it's like 800 nights I've spent camping out on the river. Like.
Yeah, like, or even more than that probably, but still just like so, so much time of my life spent out on the river with people and I saw how healing it was. And so I'm like, I want to figure out how to help people have this opportunity. And so I went to school to be a therapist, to learn more of what I could help with. And then I created get outside together as my business. And I do retreats where we'll take families or couples or women or men or fathers and sons or mothers and daughters or.
whatever group dynamic we want, and we go out and spend time together, no phones, no work, we disconnect. It's not the same as a vacation because you don't have to make any decisions. You literally show up and you are just present. How many times in your life can you actually say that you are just present with people that you care about? Nothing else is distracting you, right? It never happens these days. It's always, it's always distracted by something and there's always something we have to do.
Brett (52:37.566)
It's so rare. Yeah.
Zak Hazlett (52:43.044)
And so I recognize that this experience is magic. Like it's, it is different. It's different than any other. And obviously I'm a little biased, but like I've done other retreats. I've done yoga. I'm a yoga teacher. I've done like all those things. And like, it's different because this is just a very organic place to just be present with people. I don't put a ton of structure into it. I don't make you do all this journaling all the time or all these things. I'm like, I just want you to spend time together.
and the conversation to be organic. And like, I'll help facilitate that a little bit, but it's pretty meaningful. And so I just found a lot of purpose in that. And the social media has blown things up a little bit with like sharing worldwide and like to a global audience, which is pretty cool. But even that, the message is as I get back from people, like just today, I got one that was just like, wow, I just stumbled across your feed. And like, it is a breath of fresh air to see someone that, you know, is masculine.
but also has this emotion, someone who is kind and cares. And like, you can, I mean, it's what you said, like you can actually see it and feel it. And like, my hope is that as I am kind and authentic and come and share messages in that way, it inspires it because I don't know, we can talk about this later, but there's two types of people that we're drawn to, I think in life. There's the people that have a lifestyle we want and like,
Brett (53:50.91)
Yeah.
Zak Hazlett (54:10.724)
you know, the celebrities or like the people we follow, cause we're like, well, it's so cool. And we feel like a little bit of a glimpse. We can live vicariously through them. And then there's the people who inspire us to create the best life for ourselves. Right. And that's what I'm trying to be. I don't want people to be like, Oh, I wish I had your life. I want people to feel how much I love and care about them and, and want to become that best version of themselves and create the life.
Brett (54:19.582)
Mm -hmm.
Zak Hazlett (54:40.164)
for themselves that is theirs. Because like I said before, you will never be happy trying to live someone else's life. You only be happy as you learn to live your own life and be grateful for what you have and the direction that you're going.
Brett (54:56.318)
I love that man. What are some of the ways that you have found that you are becoming more on track with living your own life and your own authentic self? Like what are some of the markers, if you don't mind to share for people listening, that you know that you're more and more on the right track?
Zak Hazlett (55:14.18)
Yeah, no, I think so. I went from being, I am a recovering people pleaser, I will say, and being hyper critical of myself. Like people would be like, man, you're doing great. And I'm like, no, I sucked. And like, I was so self -defeating and like beating myself up and was my biggest critic. And I've recognized there's a difference between being self -critical and loving yourself enough to know that you have work to do. And.
That's the distinction that I think I've made more recently that helped me feel like I'm in a good spot. It's like, no, I'm a great person. And I feel totally confident saying that. Do I make mistakes? Absolutely. Do I have flaws? Tons. Do I have tons of work to do? Oh yeah. But that doesn't negate the fact that I'm a good person. And I think having that initial foundational belief of like, it's okay for you to say that. It's not cocky. It's not arrogant. It's not egotistical.
If I said like, I'm the greatest person ever, you know, like, yeah, that's, that's arrogant and cocky, but like believing that I'm a good person and that I deserve to grow and that I love myself and care about myself enough to put in the work to do that. That is what I want other people to believe. And that's what I think has been a big marker for me is like, I recognize that I was too self -critical and not self -compassionate enough. And as I flipped those and am now focused more on the good that I am and.
that I am worth putting in the work and that I still have work to do. It's been a game changer. Cause instead of looking at it as like all these things that I will never have or can't have, I'm like, look at all the things I do have and the good that I can do for myself and for other people. And imagine how much more I could do if I just kept growing. And like, that's what I want everybody listening to realize is like, you are a good person. You're a great person. And the fact that you recognize,
that you have things to change, that there's things that you wanna work on, that makes you an amazing person. That makes you exceptional. And believe that. I need you to believe that because that is what will fuel you. That is what will keep you going and help you get through these difficult times. So believe it, know that you're a good person, trust that all the work that you put into yourself, absolutely worth it. Absolutely.
Brett (57:36.574)
Very well said, Zach. When you are thinking about the past several years and your growth, is there a moment that stands out as just a special moment for you?
Zak Hazlett (57:48.388)
Um, there's a couple moments, grad school was pretty hard. I learned a lot of things, but honestly, a couple months ago, even there was a moment where I realized this is where it was like the beginning of the year. And I thought about alignment and recognize some things. And I was like, man, there's still something missing. And I had done some things and said some things that have hurt people I cared about. And it wrecked me. Like I just was.
absolutely destroyed. And I, you know, I did what I could to mend the situation and reconcile and like make it up to those people. Um, and in doing so, our friendship was able to be reconciled basically. And I realized like, wow, my actions do impact people a lot and my words impact people a lot. And it just like made me realize I knew that. And I obviously like know that the things we do and say hurt people.
or help people like that's life. But I didn't understand the magnitude of it so much until that moment. And so really I think that was like a pivotal moment in my life where I'm like, okay, I really need to be aligned and trust that like this is worth it, right? Like really doing the work to be careful about.
my actions and behaviors and words and things. And like, I don't need to take care of everyone and I don't need to fix everyone. And like, that's not what I mean, but I can't control other people, but I, but I can do what I can to learn how to control myself better.
Brett (59:31.582)
Man, that's a powerful one. I appreciate you sharing that, man. That resonates with me as well. Thank you.
Zach, is there a message that you would want to share with people who are on their growth journey right now? Is there anything that you would want to tell them or share with them? Maybe they're feeling stuck right now, or maybe they're feeling excited about where they are, but they're just on that path right now that you and I are. What would you want to share with them?
Zak Hazlett (01:00:07.652)
Oof man, so many things. Um, I think the, the message that I think resonated with a lot of people on one of my posts was like, don't, don't be afraid to start again where you're not starting from scratch this time. You're starting from experience. And that was a quote that I saw on like Pinterest or Reddit or something. I don't know, but it was powerful to me and I think it's powerful to so many. I mean, it's been shared a bajillion times and like, I think.
no matter where you're at, whether you're in a place where you're like stoked about what's going on for you and you're moving forward and you have direction, like don't be afraid to do, do more things and try new things and put yourself out there and grow because that's what's going to be the most rewarding thing. And I think the next thing and actually probably reverse them. This is the most important is when you get to the end of your life and you're looking back on,
what you accomplished and the successes you had and all the things you did or whatever, you'll never regret the time that you spent with people that you care about and that you love. You will always regret the time you spent doing something work -related or building something and neglecting those relationships. And so make sure that you find a balance, right? Yes, you have to work hard.
Yes, you have to put in things, but we live in a society and a culture where it's hustle culture. It's grind culture. It's like, Oh, I have to be working 80 hour weeks or else I'm not going to be seen as good enough. That's not true. That's not true at all. Like we can let go of those expectations. And I know there's some of you out there where you're like the spot you're in right now, you have to work two jobs, three jobs, whatever. I've been there. I am like currently I'm working a lot of jobs and trying to balance it all. And I have to check myself.
just like you have to check yourself, where am I putting my time and attention? Because I can guarantee you, you will find more reward, more happiness, more joy, as you find the time to put that focus on the people you care about, than any amount of money you'll ever make. So don't forget that.
Brett (01:02:25.47)
Period. I think that's a great place to start to wrap up today's episode, Zach. That's phenomenal advice. And as always, heart -centric, kindness -centric, empathy -centric. I love your approach to life and to therapy and to just sharing a message that's so important to you. Zach, if people resonated with your message today and they want to either...
get involved somehow, they want to find out more about you, where's the best place to do that.
Zak Hazlett (01:03:00.164)
Yeah, I think, I mean, just my Instagram page, the underscore outdoor underscore therapist. I post most of like, if I have anything going on or whatever, like I'll post it there. My website, getoutsidetogether .com has some of the trips and things that I put together on if people want to look at that. But mostly like just come in and see if it's something that adds value to your life. Like I say, like you don't owe me anything. I had like,
if you wanna come and check some things out and then leave, like, I don't care. You don't have to follow me. You don't have to, like, I'm not in it for that. I don't make money. I don't do ads. I don't do any of that. Like, I just share some thoughts. But, yeah, I mean, reach out there. Shoot me an email. I have like a tab on my Instagram with my email address. And so, if you're interested in working with me or learning more about stuff, feel free to shoot me an email. I try to get to things as quick as I can, but.
is a little overwhelming. I do get quite a few messages, but mostly just find things, man, find things that enhance your life, especially in the world of social media, podcasts even. Like if you're listening to something and it makes you feel like you're not good enough, like stop listening to it. You know, like diet is way more than what we just eat. It's everything we consume and our body will react to all of that. So like I always do that. I do this like once, probably once every couple of weeks, I'll post about it like, Hey guys, time to...
unfollow anyone that isn't adding value to your life. Because if you are allergic to something, you're not gonna eat it. Or if you don't like mustard, then you're not gonna put on your sandwich. Don't just do it just because it's there. And that's another message where I think it's so powerful. Right now, go unfollow 10 people that aren't adding value to your life. It's simple and it's gonna change things. Because that 10 minutes of looking at a real thing on that page,
Use that 10 minutes for a little win. Go for a little walk. Do something outside.
Brett (01:05:00.734)
I love that. I love that. So I hope that if Zach's message did resonate, you do take the time to find him and to check out the work that he's doing. I think it'll leave you feeling inspired, encouraged, ready to take on the next challenge. Zach, what are you excited about coming up in your life? You have anything big that you're looking forward to right now? Anything you're working on?
Zak Hazlett (01:05:22.692)
Oh man, I mean, I told you right before we jumped on this, but like I'm building out a van that I'm gonna make a little podcast studio and this winter I'm gonna travel around and yeah, for anybody listening, like I'm gonna do pop -up hikes in all over the country. And so like, I'll be like, hey, I'm in, you know, Oklahoma this week hiking whatever trail. If you're close by, join me. And like, I'd love to meet people and, you know, hear your stories more. And I'm excited for that.
The river season, I mean, obviously I've grown up on the river and every summer is like, I'm a giddy little boy that's just excited about rafting and meeting new people. And so we start up here in another week or so and it's, yeah, it's always really exciting. So looking forward to that as well.
Brett (01:06:10.174)
Good. Well, that's awesome, man. I appreciate everything today. Zach, Hazel, everyone. Zach, thank you so much for the time today, man. And I hope we can connect again sometime soon.
Zak Hazlett (01:06:19.428)
Yeah, appreciate it, Brett. Thanks for having me on.
Brett (01:06:21.598)
All right, of course. Bye.