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Exploring Aging
Are you prepared to take care of your aging parents? Are you still taking care of your children as well? Are you concerned about how caring for both your parents and your children at the same time might cost you financially, emotionally, and even physically. If you find yourself considering these questions, then you are very likely to be a part of the Sandwich Generation. On this edition of the Exploring Aging podcast, we will meet someone who has faced the unique challenges of the so called sandwich generation.
Ray:Stay with us. I think you will like what you hear. Welcome back to the exploring aging podcast, where we dig into the challenges and opportunities faced by an ever aging population. On today's program, we're going to pick up where we left off last time talking about the sandwich generation. I'm your host, Ray Sanders, and joining me in studio are my cohost, Greg McNeese and doctor Bill Pierce.
Ray:Hey. You guys brought some guests in with you today.
Greg:We did. This is my friend, Amy. Amy is, she and her husband are friends with my wife and I, and we're we're raising kids together. And so she's got 3 kids, and she'll tell you more about that. But, she and her family are walking through Sandwich Generation with adult children and aging parents.
Greg:And so she's got a great story to tell.
Ray:Oh, I can't wait to hear it. And, doctor Pierce, I don't know about you, but isn't it encouraging to know that Greg McNeese has friends?
Bill:It really is.
Greg:It is encouraging.
Bill:He has 2.
Ray:And And we have somebody else in studio too, doctor Pierce.
Bill:We do. I'm so pleased to introduce Shannon Ryan, and we have been working together a long time. And I am very blessed by the people that I have the blessing of working with. And Shannon is the executive director of Entrusted Hearts. When you need care at home, think Entrusted Hearts.
Bill:We have 4 Entrusted Hearts offices around the state, and Shannon has been leading those a good long time. Welcome, Shannon.
Shannon:Thank you. Glad to be here.
Ray:Well, she's what we would call a subject matter expert, and we're really glad to have you ladies in the studio today as we unpack what it means to age in place. We also discussed on our last show a little bit about the sandwich generation, but, Greg, tell us a little bit more about what it means to age in places. Kinda sounds like something that might happen on the produce aisle or some place like that, you know. But what does it mean to age in place? Sure.
Ray:You
Greg:know, aging in place is really that concept of you what as we grow older, instead of moving and trying to figure out how do we do this or do that, we can stay in place, stay in our home, stay in our comfortable surroundings, if you will. And as we grow older, what are we gonna do to make that happen? And so aging in place is really just a a term in the field of gerontology that we would use to say, here are the things we do to age in place.
Ray:Isn't that what most people want really?
Greg:I think it's what everybody would like Yeah. At the end of the day is how do I keep things that I understand and know and are comfortable with in place as I age? And that's what that concept is.
Ray:You know, we've talked about our our parents on this show a lot of times. And my mother, we've started having a discussion. She has a 3 bedroom home. She loves her home, but she's starting to think it's a little much for her to handle. And so she's like, do I wanna age in place here?
Ray:And, one of the things that I found interesting, I was speaking with my wife recently. My mom stopped talking about, well, I just wanna downsize. Mhmm. Okay. She could downsize.
Ray:But you know why do you know why she wants to downsize? Or you you got you ladies probably are aware of this. My mother is thinking, I just don't wanna do all this housework. And I say, mom, I know somebody you need to talk to. Yeah.
Ray:And we're gonna talk about that today, and she could age in place in the home she's been in for years, and she doesn't have to sell. But, again, this is just a real practical way. Yes. Age in place. You love where you're at.
Ray:Stay there as long as you can.
Greg:That's correct.
Bill:Yeah. We have a solution.
Ray:Yeah. And so, Bill, there's an there's another topic, and I find this one a little bit funny. It's been adopted by society, if you will. But, you know, it's the sandwich generation, and we're not talking about the new diet plan. This isn't keto.
Ray:This isn't paleo. This isn't carb, no carb. It's, you know, it's not, you know, white bread and baloney. What is what is the sandwich? That's kinda how I feel.
Ray:Did you feel like you were a part of the sandwich generation? I mean, I I feel like I grew up as a part of the sandwich generation, but that's not what we're talking about. What is the sandwich generation?
Bill:Well, that's really interesting term, isn't it? You know, it's this new thing in the family. As people live longer, you have the blessing of raising your children at the same time you're serving the needs of your parents. Yeah. And it can become a very, very challenging and even hectic thing.
Bill:But I call it a blessing, Ray. It's a blessing to raise your children and serve your parents at the same time.
Ray:That's kinda like a double stuffed Oreo. You know? There you go. That's just doubly good. Right?
Ray:It's extra good. Well, as more and more people desire to age in place, and really, like we said, Greg, who could blame them? Families are challenged with new ways to care, not only for their children, as you just said, but for their aging parents. So, Amy, you've been living this out in real life. Well, that's why we're so happy to have you in studio today.
Ray:We've been, talking about this, but you're somebody who can really tell us what it's like. Tell us a little bit about your story and how you are navigating your role as part of the sandwich generation.
Shannon:Thank you for having me today. Yes. I feel like we are living out the stereotypical sandwich, at our house. I'm married to my husband, Daniel. We've been married about 27 years.
Shannon:We have 3 kids. They are all in Texas. 1 is out of college and working successfully independent off of our books,
Ray:How to Get Out.
Shannon:And then we have 2 in college still. So, they still need mom and dad, you know, support and input and guiding them through their life. Then I also have my parents who live in Oklahoma City as well. And just as they are getting older, they're needing a little more help from, my sister and I. So that's been a joy to get to spend time with them, but also have our kids, needing us as well.
Shannon:So we're kind of empty nesters with nobody at home right now, but we also get, visits from our our empty nest is full at times.
Ray:Well, your husband, I think, as I recall, is a doctor. Is that right? And so you guys are and you're a professional as well, so it's not like you're just sitting around. You're very busy.
Shannon:Yes. Daniel's a physician here in Oklahoma City, and then I'm a physical therapist in a school setting, and I work 3 days a week. So, yes, our schedules are full.
Ray:But you love your kids. You love your parents. Your kids have a certain set of needs. And, Craig, congratulations on pushing one off the the, you know, off the edge there. That's that's a big deal.
Ray:Yeah. That's what we hope to do. Raise them up. Right? But you still have needs there.
Ray:But your parents, also, they're probably torn between being a burden to you, but at the same time, realizing there was no one that they'd rather see show up in their driveway than you or your husband and for you to help with whatever. But tell us a little bit about your parents and why they might be someone that's entering that stage in life when they could use a little extra help.
Shannon:Yes. My dad is 90 years young, I'll say. He has been a farmer all his life and, taught school here locally. So, he has always been busy and active keeping the farm. My mom is 81, and she has worked up until, I think, the age of 75.
Shannon:She's been a bookkeeper and, loves missions, has served in her church a long time. But they're at a point where, you know, they are getting older, still wanting to be independent, enjoying their home, but needing a little assistance, from my sister and I, just helping with filling in the gaps, I guess you'd say. My dad just medically has, some health heart issues, and my mom has been diagnosed with dementia. So, you know, we know their needs are going to be changing going forward. So, I'm grateful that I do live about 30 minutes away, and we're close enough where we can come in and help as needed.
Shannon:So that has been a blessing. We want to just honor and respect them and give them that opportunity to be independent, but also we wanna make sure they're safe and healthy and and fill in the gaps, as I said, and taking taking care of them.
Ray:Yeah. I understand. You know, Greg, you and I have talked about I think you were gonna maybe mention some of the things in with regard to some of the decisions that they're they're having to make in their life as it relates to, you know, emotionally, time, financially.
Greg:Right. I would also add, you know, Amy, I think a big question is you just kind of talk about the emotional aspect of this. But I think there's also something for your children, your your young adult children to be able to go. I I think I would be interested to know how have they responded to seeing their grandparents at the stage of life where, you know what, they do need some kind of help and assistance. But what does that mean for them?
Greg:I mean, they have some emotional ties to their grandparents, and so I think that's that's a part of this whole discussion of sandwich families, if you will, of how they've even the grandchildren play into this.
Shannon:Yes. And they, you know, are in and out just with college and school. So they they see the changes, I think, since they're not day to day seeing their grandparents. But and they see, how much we are invested just mentally, emotionally, and caring for them, making decisions. So it is kind of juggling, you know, our kids' needs, my parents' needs, how to do it all, and still get some sleep at night.
Bill:Yeah. Mhmm.
Shannon:It it can be a lot, but it's it's I don't know. We're just taking it one day at a time at this point, waiting, you know, to see what needs arise, but also keeping up with our kids and keeping them, you know, making sure they still feel loved and know that we're here for them too.
Ray:It's a fine balance. It's a fine balance. It really is. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Greg:And I I would also ask the question of when you look at your family dynamic and you look at that sandwich generation, I know so many families would struggle through even the financial side of how do we create how do we create balance? And what what can my parents do? What can they not do? Do I have to do I have to pay for all this? I mean, I I know that that's a struggle.
Greg:So how have y'all, as a family, kinda work through just the sheer financial side of of where you're walking?
Shannon:I do have one sister, and she lives in the Edmond area as well. So, between my sister and her husband and me and my husband, we kind of divide and conquer. We each have had kind of our roles in meeting the needs of my parents. We kind of laugh because they each they call different people for different reasons. My role has been to kind of help with finances, making sure their bills are paid.
Shannon:I attend most of the doctor's appointments. I take my parents to. My sister gets calls for all the household needs, medicines. My husband has drawn the short straw, and he gets the calls for plumbing problems or fixing the toilet, things like that. And then my brother-in-law is great with technology, so the most important call is what channel is the thunder playing on?
Amy:The remote.
Shannon:Yes. He gets that call a lot. Well,
Amy:I can't
Shannon:find the thunder game, my dad will call him. So anyways, it's good that we have 4 of us to kind of divide up the duties and serving and helping my parents. That has helped a lot. But we know as things go on and progress, there's going to be not enough time to do all of the things that they're going to need. So time.
Shannon:Time is a huge, resource that you wish if I wish we could buy more time, you know. If that were for sale, that's something I think we will need. But, you know, we just keep doing our best and plugging on. So I'm thankful, you know, that I do have siblings and that that has worked out to have the 4 of us to to work as a team.
Greg:Amy, there's a kind of a funny story. I mean, I want you to tell the story you've you shared with my wife and I about your dad and a cup of coffee. And so can you share that story with folks just to go Yes. Okay. I've done this kind of stuff as well.
Shannon:Yes. So this, I think, was a little eye opener for my dad. So one morning, I had been out taking a walk, and I kind of get a frantic call from my dad, We're out of coffee. Amy, can you come right now? I need a cup of coffee.
Shannon:And I said, well, dad, do you realize I'm 30 minutes away? By the time I get to your house, it will be 30 minutes. And he's like, oh. So, I said, call my sister.
Ray:That's funny. Yeah. It is.
Shannon:Yeah. I think that was a little eye opener because it's an hour round trip for me to go to their house and do something. Not that I don't want to, but sometimes, you know, you just can't. It might be a workday, and I need to get to work. And Mhmm.
Greg:I don't
Shannon:I can't take an hour to bring you coffee.
Ray:So you ended up making the suggestion though, and didn't he he kinda took initiative himself. You really didn't call your sister. I think you told him McDonald's isn't too far away.
Shannon:Well, yes. I also said, you could drive to 711 across the street.
Ray:So they're awesome. They serve coffee.
Shannon:They have coffee.
Ray:You know, this is this is a this is a real issue, and that's kind of a funny example. I mean, we've all I've I think about how I sometimes call my kids and it's like, oh, yeah. I probably could have figured that out. But the example I was using earlier, my mother is literally has thought about selling her house, downsizing. Why?
Ray:Because she doesn't want. She's she's at the point that she doesn't really feel like she can clean her house at the level she wants to. She's gonna uproot herself, but the thought is, well, aren't you gonna have to clean the other house? And then the other thought is, we're gonna go through all that and sell the house, but what would it cost us just to have somebody come in and clean the house versus what would it cost to sell a house, the closing cost, all that kind of stuff. And it's not that, you know, it's not it's not that we're not thinking about it maybe.
Ray:It's just that we haven't really considered all the options. And that's part of why we're in each other's lives. I mean, I I want people in my life for those little things, silly things that I sometimes do. And sometimes our parents do do the same things. So, Bill, were you gonna dig a little deeper on the sibling thing?
Ray:I know you were looking at it for sure.
Bill:Juggle kept coming to my mind because there's so much to juggle, and time is such a factor. And it's it's so wonderful that you have 4 people that are involved in their lives. And I remember my brothers and I have 2 brothers. And we would sit down sometimes, not that often, but sometimes, and we'd have to have a family meeting. And we would talk about, who was gonna do what and when and what happens when somebody goes on vacation.
Bill:1 of this one of the brothers one of the brothers goes on vacation. And there was even some some negotiation, and it even got hot 1 or 2 times. So I just wonder if you have any insight to share along that line. I know that would never happen in your family, but do you have any insight to add?
Ray:When you're talking hot, we're not talking temperature. We're talking we're we're talking tempers. And Bill, would you care to share who it was at the hospital?
Greg:No.
Ray:Okay, Amy. We're looking to you again.
Shannon:Well, we've started a group text.
Ray:Mhmm.
Shannon:And so that has helped with communication with my sister, her husband, me, and my husband. So that has been great. Even just yesterday, my brother-in-law was texting and said, Your mom needs a doctor's appointment changed, which usually I schedule that since I'm the one going, so I make it work with my schedule. So, I'm like, I'll handle it. Thank you for letting me know.
Shannon:So, I think keeping that communication open has been really good. And just asking for help, like, there's times where I'm like, I cannot do this. I need someone else, too. And my sister will step in and say, Okay, I'll do that. You know?
Shannon:So, I think that open communication, and sometimes texting is a great way of communicating because it does take a little of the emotions out of it that you might have in your voice if you were talking, just to be a little more clear and direct. And then it's you know, you know what what's really going on. So that is my tip for the day.
Bill:Very good.
Ray:Well, I can think of somebody else who might have a few tips. I bet you can too, Bill. And, Shannon, you've been sitting over there hearing all this. You're the one who works with clients a lot. You you hear these stories firsthand.
Ray:You're on the front lines if you will as the state director for Entrust and Heart. How typical how typical is, Amy's story, and how often do you hear stories like this?
Amy:Right. Well, thanks for sharing your story with us. The story that she just told is very typical. We hear about it every single day. And a lot of the struggles and, you know, a lot of the things that you run up against are the the same things that, you know, other parents, you know, are are dealing with and and that their families are, you know, having to deal with.
Amy:So it's very typical. And, you know, we find that, you know, a lot of families don't know where to reach out. They don't know what's available to them. And like you were saying, sometimes it's overwhelming. And luckily, you know, you have other family that, you know, can step in and assist, but nobody has that.
Amy:So so yeah. It's a it's a very So
Ray:I wanna I wanna I want to, put you on the spot Yeah. That I mean, Amy has touched on it. Bill's confessed that he has a temper. Isn't that what you did? Oh my god.
Bill:Words in my mouth.
Ray:But, I mean, I think one of the stickiest things, really I mean, we can act like it's a bowl of peaches, but sometimes it can get really tense, and it can get hot in the room. How do you help diffuse that? What recommendations do you have? What have you seen that works? There's probably no fail safe thing, but that's the real world.
Ray:I mean, I just lost a cousin. And, the family was trying to plan the funeral. And I mean, we it was almost like World War 2 just trying to get the funeral together. And it was a you know, it it was it wasn't positive that he passed. But I mean, here you are trying to honor someone, but emotions can fly high.
Ray:It's mom and dad. You don't know them like I know them, or you're not considering my mom. Don't speak for her. Let them speak let them speak for themselves. Who made you, you know, the boss of Lucy?
Ray:I mean, how do you how do you diffuse that? How do you stay on point? And then if you're not careful, mom and dad sees the tension that's happening in the room, and they're just like, look. We're not doing this. We're not calling anybody for anything.
Ray:We're just gonna sit here and and handle it ourselves. And you got a a guy with a farmer attitude who's been hardworking and a mother who's been very active in that independence streak as much as they they want to do it themselves. They're gonna dig in and it doesn't get done the way it needs to be done. And then it just spirals out of control. Alright.
Ray:Alright. Have I set it set it up for you? Yeah. Okay. Now now now you've got your cape.
Ray:Fly in and save the day. What what do you what do you recommend, Shannon?
Amy:Well, I think, you know, Amy hit on the fact that, it's about communication.
Ray:There you go.
Amy:And every family dynamic is gonna be different. So no no 2 are alike. You know, we usually see situations where, like you said, you know, one kind of takes the lead and not everybody always agrees with that lead, that that person takes. But we always say, you know, you have to keep that communication open. I think a lot of times, the communication that happens is set up and it happens without the parents sometimes.
Amy:You have to sit down and you have to talk about a plan. You have to have a plan and that's not sometimes a plan that you're discussing with your with your parents at that time. And so once you get that plan in order and everyone kind of has, their duties or their part to play, as you mentioned, Amy, that goes a long ways. And so I think keeping some of that away at first until you have that plan in place, creates a more successful environment. So
Ray:That's a great perspective. So from from your per your your perspective and your role at, entrusted hearts, why is it a good option for the sandwich generation? Why is entrusted hearts an alternative for someone like Amy's family and others that might be listening?
Amy:Right. And like, you know, Amy mentioned, you know, a lot of people, they say almost 90% of everybody who is over 65, they want to remain independent in their home. And so I think Entrusted Hearts, Home Care by Baptist Village is really a great option because what it does is it allows them to remain in their home, and it allows the family that's providing that service, time away and to focus on all those things that you just mentioned. And so we can go into the home and we can provide those services, making sure that their parents are safe in their environment and also, you know, giving you the opportunity to do the things you need to do to also raise your family and be a part of of those decisions that, you know, they're still counting on you for.
Ray:So I'm listening to this. I'm thinking, alright. Sounds like Shannon's gonna come in, and she's gonna be a referee. Or Shannon's gonna do this or what are I'm teasing, of course. But what are what are some of the specific things?
Ray:I think people would be surprised at for how much it might cost, for some of the services that are that you provide through entrusted hearts, and just how special they really are and how intimate they really are. Talk about this 2 or 3, 4 of these types of services. And I think it's like $25 an hour or something like that. Right. What it cost.
Ray:Right. How does it work? What are the services?
Amy:Well, when we go into the home, there's a lot of services that we can provide. We can provide can't you know, just companionship. A lot of times, the people that we're serving need nothing more than just someone to come in and be with them and talk with them. Those are typically, you know, the parents that, you know, maybe don't have a lot of people surrounding them. So we do a lot of just companion services.
Amy:We can do the housekeeping, things of that nature. We can run errands with them, and, you know, take them to events that they might want to attend. So we're really just a support for whatever it is that they need to do in their home. And then we have another level of care that we provide and that is with a certified home health aide. We can go in and actually provide hands on care in the home.
Amy:So you may have, you know, a parent that is needing assistance with their bathing and their dressing. And, you know, as a daughter or a son, that's always not a comfortable place to be. And so it allows the dignity to the the children That's and to the people that are receiving the services. It's not just, you know, not just the children, but many times the, you know, the the parents. You know, they need that, you know, need that service but don't want it provided by their by their children, which is understandable.
Ray:They may have changed your diapers, but they don't necessarily wanna be paid by their son or daughter. Right?
Amy:They deserve that dignity. And so with that dignity, we have a choice. Yeah. They have choices.
Ray:What about what about meals? What about things like that?
Amy:We do. We go in and we do meal preparation. We can do advanced meal preparation. A lot of times we'll go in and and, let's say that, you know, Amy's gonna be out of town and she knows that her parents are going to need help, with preparing meals, we can go in and we can do advanced meal prep so that they can take it out and they can warm it up. And Amy would know that her mom and dad are are going to have the meals and that they need.
Ray:That's a lot of peace of mind because if I'm 30 minutes away, I could even use this service if I'm leaving and going down to see my kids in college. But if I live an hour and a half or I live out of state, the it's truly entrusted. I'm entrusting my parents to you and I can feel comfortable with an organization, you know, like entrusted hearts that they're gonna take care of some of those little things that really are kind of taking care of my mom and dad in ways that I wish I could, but I can't always. Right.
Greg:Yeah. Yeah. You know, I have a question that may it may backtrack us a little bit. Shannon, when you when you're talking to families, who are considering entrusted hearts, and when they're in those sandwich positions, what are some of those concerns that they let's say the adult children. What would you say that their underlying concern that you hear, what what are they saying to you, as say, we here are our concerns.
Greg:What do you hear most from from adult children who are facing this decision about their parents?
Amy:Well, I think a lot of times, you know, we see the children and, you know, they who call us and we visit with them and and, you know, their concerns are, you know, the time constraints and how do we manage, you know, work life balance. We talk about that all the time. How do you manage that? And we see a lot of times that people who are caring for their parents, they feel lack of support a lot of times. And that's really, really important.
Amy:So many of them do not know what options are available out there. And so, you know, that's where we can come in and we can offer that support. You know, this is what we do day in and day out and so we understand it better than anyone. And so we really can be a, you know, a source of of support to the children as, you know, they are trying to make decisions regarding their parents. And, you know, then we see our other concerns, you know, besides just the the children that are providing the care for their parents.
Amy:You know, they have concerns as, you know, who's going to be going into my parents' home? And, are you going to be able to provide these services? And, you know, is it, you know, something that you can do and keep them at home and still provide them a safe environment? So, yeah, there's a lot of concerns and, you know, issues and fears, you know, that we see as we talk to families.
Shannon:Yeah. And that has been my parents' desire is to age in place like you all were describing earlier at the beginning. And and I feel like the things you're hitting on, like the meal preparation, the house cleaning, even just companionship, I think my dad at times does get a little lonely just as conversations with my mom are getting more difficult to stay on track with her memory and things. So, I mean, these things all sound amazing. And and there's times when my sister and I both wanna be out of town.
Shannon:We have kids at the same university and we both wanna go to a homecoming or a parents weekend. And it would be nice to have someone kind of as a backup on call. Absolutely. Knowing that we're both, you know, gonna be too out of state, it'd be nice to have someone that we knew, oh, if something does happen in a crisis, we have a call or someone to help out.
Amy:And we do that a lot. I mean, we have we have many clients that the family needs some respite. They just need a little bit of time away, just like you were talking, so they can care for their own families. And so we get called in on that. And we go in and we provide that supportive services in the home so that you can step away and that you can do the things that you need to do all along knowing that they're gonna be well well cared for and loved.
Ray:I think we we we would be giving a a disservice to our listeners if we at least didn't give them the opportunity to know how to get in touch with you, Shannon. I mean, there's folks that are listening and they're thinking, wow. This this sounds like something I might wanna take advantage of. Doesn't sound like it's just gonna break the bank. Sounds like something my parents would enjoy.
Ray:It would actually help me. So let's let's just give people away. How do they how do they get in touch with you?
Amy:Sure. Well, they can, visit our website, baptist village dot org, and they can fill out it's a referral form that's on there, just some basic information, and then we will call them back and talk to them about a plan and how we can how we can assist them or their families in in the in their home. Or they can call us if they would choose. It's 1 86688728 72.
Ray:And as they say one more time.
Amy:1-866-887-2872 or visit us at baptistvillage dotorg.
Ray:Awesome. Hey, guys. I don't know about you, but all this talk about sandwiches, I'm getting kinda hungry.
Bill:Mhmm.
Ray:And, unfortunately, we're out of time. You guys did such a good job. And so, you know, will you guys I I would you guys be willing to come back? I feel like we've left some things, on the table that we still need to talk about. Shannon, Amy, would you guys be willing to come back?
Amy:Sure. We'd love to.
Ray:So you'll join us on another episode. That that's really that's good news. Right, guys?
Bill:That is great news.
Ray:Alright. Well, thank you for joining us on this, edition of the Exploring Aging podcast. I hope you will join us on our next episode because Amy and Shannon, you heard it here, they've agreed to come back, and they'll help us learn more about what it means to navigate the challenges faced by the ever growing sandwich generation. Until next time. Hey.
Ray:Stay active and stay informed as we explore the realities of aging on the exploring aging podcast.