EEShow (Everything's Energy Show) | The Vegetarian Trap: Are You Getting Enough Protein?

EEShow (Everything's Energy Show)

EEShow is Everything's Energy Show, a long-form interview podcast hosted by Michael Scalar. The official site is ee.show.

Michael, raised vegetarian his whole life, sits down with Roland for an honest back-and-forth on building a plant-based diet that keeps you full and fueled instead of accidentally living on carbs.

They discuss amino acids, complementary foods and the tradition of pairing grains with legumes, then get practical about protein intake, whey, eggs, cheese and plant protein powders.

The conversation also explores iron absorption, why women may need to pay closer attention, and the risks of over-supplementing. Michael and Roland share their views on processed meat alternatives, lectins, tempeh and tofu, before Michael walks through his own food and supplement routine.

Nothing here is medical or nutritional advice. Individual needs vary, and bloodwork beats guesswork.

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Chapters:

(00:00) - A Lifelong Vegetarian And A Skeptic Walk Into A Studio
(01:21) - Why Vegetarianism Is Really An Amino Acid Problem
(02:30) - Food Combining: How Traditional Cultures Got It Right
(03:40) - How Much Protein You Actually Need Per Day
(04:45) - Whey Protein And Who Should Not Be Drinking It
(05:19) - Eggs And Cheese: The Vegetarian Shortcut
(06:24) - Iron, Absorption, And Why Women Lose More
(08:05) - The Lemon Juice Trick For Plant Iron
(09:08) - Too Much Iron: The Other Side Of The Coin
(11:07) - Michael’s Real Protein Routine
(12:04) - Lectins, Plant Defenses, And Who Needs To Care
(14:27) - Tempeh, Tofu, And The Fermentation Difference
(16:23) - Beyond Meat And The Processed Vegetarian Trap
(24:22) - Why Skinny Vegetarians Are Often The Unhealthiest
(26:09) - Fruit Forward Eating And A Simple Supplement Stack

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Disclaimer (Please Read)
The Energy Enhancement System™ (EESystem™) and the content provided on EEShow (Everything's Energy Show) -- including audio, transcripts, and guest comments -- are not medical advice. EESystem is not designed to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any illness or medical condition. The information presented is for educational and wellness purposes only. If you have or suspect any medical condition, please consult a qualified healthcare professional.

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Creators and Guests

Host

Michael Scalar

Host of the Everything's Energy Show by Energy Enhancement System

Writer

Roland

Co-Host Everything's Energy Show

What is EEShow (Everything's Energy Show)?

EEShow is Everything’s Energy Show — a long-form interview podcast hosted by Michael Scalar exploring energy, consciousness, wellness inquiry, and field literacy. Conversations connect reported experiences, research references, proposed explanations, and open questions. The official site is ee.show.

Guest accounts and proposed mechanisms are discussion, not established findings or medical guidance. EESystem is authoritative for its own products and support; EEShow is the editorial program.

Disclaimer – Please Read:
The Energy Enhancement System™ (EESystem™) and the content provided on EE.Show (audio, transcripts, guest comments) are not medical advice. EESystem is not designed to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any illness or medical condition. The information presented is for educational and wellness purposes only. If you have or suspect any medical condition, please consult a qualified healthcare professional.

Michael Scalar: 00:00

Alright. Well, you're tuned in to Everything's Energy Show. I'm Michael Scalar. I got Roland here today. We're gonna talk about, being a vegetarian, the protein intake, getting the right thingies.

Roland: 00:10

Still doing it well.

Michael Scalar: 00:10

Doing it well. Properly. So for those of you who have tried being a vegetarian and did it wrong or didn't wanna go back, for those of you who are a vegetarian, we're gonna go through our our 2¢. And for the Carbetarians, yes, I'm talking to you Carbetarians because I used to be one of them and so so many people are.

Roland: 00:28

I like for the pasta.

Michael Scalar: 00:30

So what's your diet? Pasta and pizza and chips. Shit. Well, I wanna I wanna kinda start off on, it's really hard to get the right protein. And, you know, everyone goes, well, how do you your protein?

Michael Scalar: 00:42

Obviously, I'm not a small guy.

Roland: 00:44

You're a lifelong vegetarian too.

Michael Scalar: 00:46

Life long. I was raised vegetarian. I actually really wish I could bring myself to eat fish just as a great protein source. It's extremely high in protein. You eat the right ones, they have the omega...

Michael Scalar: 00:54

Omegas. I don't have iron deficiencies, so I must be getting that from supplements or just eating leafy greens. I'm obviously not weak, but I am a little rounder than I would like to be. But that's because I just haven't figured out... Oh, no.

Michael Scalar: 01:08

I hadn't figured out the right protein scenario. So I wanna go through... What what are your thoughts on on the right protein scenarios? Like, how many grams, should someone say 200 pounds be getting a protein?

Roland: 01:21

That's a debated question. And and the challenge... I agree with you. The challenge with vegetarianism, if you really get down to the nuts and bolts of it, it's an amino acid problem. I'm gonna try to explain this without being too scientifically boring.

Roland: 01:34

So in the plant kingdom, most of what plants offer you are glucose. Right? Mhmm. Glucose, fiber, there's some fats. And what's interesting about the world of nutrition is there's no natural food that's high in carbs and high in fats because they're both energy molecules.

Roland: 01:49

If you think about it, you can't actually think of a food that has a high carb, high fat load, which is why poorly done vegetarianism can be very detrimental to one's metabolic health. Yeah. Most plants have a ratio of eight times the amount of carbohydrate to protein, And there are very few plant foods that are complete proteins. And when I say complete protein, I mean it has all of the essential amino acids. There are multiple amino acids many your body can make, but the essential ones have to be gotten from diet, which is why the argument in favor of eating animal protein, which are all complete proteins, makes more logical sense from a biochemical perspective.

Roland: 02:25

I myself am not vegetarian. I have tried. In nutrition school, I was inspired and I managed to last two weeks. And it was a very gassy two weeks because I was eating various beans and legumes, and it brings me to my first point to answer your question. Before we establish the quantity of protein, I think it's important to educate vegetarians on how to get complete proteins.

Michael Scalar: 02:47

Mhmm.

Roland: 02:47

Most plants have almost all amino acids minus one or two. So grains, for example, might be high in one that legumes are low. Nuts and seeds might be high in something that grains or legumes are low in. If you look at traditional cultures, they never eat a bowl of grains by themselves.

Michael Scalar: 03:04

Yeah.

Roland: 03:04

They will mix legumes and grains. You might have rice and beans if you're in South Central America. Mhmm. If you're in India, you might have lentils and rice. Yeah.

Roland: 03:13

You know, different parts of the world, they'll they'll use buckwheat or they'll add some pecans or some seeds to it. So it's important to complete the protein profile by making sure that you're doing what's called food combining properly. Yeah. And when you food combine properly, you need less overall protein because you're getting the essential amino acids that your body needs, so you're not missing something. It'd be like trying to build a house, missing a few key components of, oh, we don't have enough bricks to finish this bedroom, or we don't have a frame for this window.

Roland: 03:40

You need to complete all the amino acids. So before you're getting the amount of protein, you need to make sure that you're combining foods properly. The average person to avoid deficiency, so a two hundred pound person, they say you want about one gram per kilo of body weight. So there's about 2.2 kilos in a gram or in a pound rather. So two hundred pounds roughly relates...

Roland: 04:01

Think it's about eighty six kilograms. So that person to avoid deficiency would need to get 86 grams of protein in a day on the low end. That's what's the the research says at this current juncture. If you're an active person or It's like

Michael Scalar: 04:14

four protein drinks.

Roland: 04:16

That's about four protein shakes. Yeah. If you're doing it that way, we'll get into that. If you're an active person, you're someone who's wanting to build muscle, play sports, do bodybuilding, you likely need somewhat closer to 1.4 to 1.6 grams per kilo. So if we go back to the two hundred pound person, you're probably in the 130 to 140 grams of protein range

Michael Scalar: 04:38

to adequately five protein shakes.

Roland: 04:40

We'll bring that in. Form of whey

Michael Scalar: 04:42

protein shakes, you're just crushing

Roland: 04:43

scoop after scoop every day.

Michael Scalar: 04:45

I'll say I've actually tried to increase my whey protein intake, and it made me feel ill.

Roland: 04:51

Well, know, whey protein is not for everyone. Some people do not tolerate it well. If you're sensitive to dairy, and I don't mean lactose intolerant, but intolerant of the protein in dairy that...

Michael Scalar: 05:01

Part of it was just the time frame though.

Roland: 05:03

You just... In short order? Yeah. Yeah. Working with vegetarian clients, the first thing I establish is is it...

Roland: 05:09

Are you a lacto ovo vegetarian? Do you eat eggs and do you eat cheese? Because here's a wonderful thing. If you are, you're getting complete protein sources from those two Mhmm. And they're both very high quality proteins.

Roland: 05:19

I do love me some cheese. Some cheese? Delicious.

Michael Scalar: 05:21

I don't eat eggs though.

Roland: 05:22

No. And some people, you know, they get gassy and they get the farts when they have eggs.

Michael Scalar: 05:25

You don't wanna be in the room.

Roland: 05:27

We're in a very small room right now. I hope you didn't have eggs today.

Michael Scalar: 05:30

I I did not. Unfortunately for our chickpeas.

Roland: 05:33

You're safe. Don't have my gas mask. So if you are eating eggs and cheese, you greatly need to reduce your reliance on supplemental protein because three, four eggs, three eggs is about 18 grams of protein. Mhmm. A serving of cheese, yogurt, for example, could be somewhere between ten and twenty.

Roland: 05:53

If you do that once a day plus combining your rice, your chickpeas, or your beans, your legumes, and your seeds, you can easily hit your absolute minimum requirements and recommendations with a fairly, you know, balanced diet of having the right amounts of fats, the right amounts of carbs and fibers, and eating a a veritable aspect of different colorful foods in season always very important for people who are vegetarian. Because the other thing that people miss vitamin a, vitamin b twelve, and iron.

Michael Scalar: 06:24

Iron, I I feel like is a lot of female vegetarians are... They they literally their blood work shows that.

Roland: 06:31

Yes. It's not

Michael Scalar: 06:31

a lot of you... And it's not as much men for some reason. You know why that is? Because they're losing some of their iron.

Roland: 06:36

Every month. During during their moon time, shall we call it, women lose iron. There there's a lot of iron blood loss and iron loss concurrently. And the hard thing about non heme iron, which is the vegetarian iron is non heme iron, it's just not very optimally absorbed. It's not quite the same structure as what's in us.

Michael Scalar: 06:57

I've got I've got to stop for a second because I recently heard the most hilarious thing about increasing your iron. Apparently, they make these like... They're shaped like fish and they go into the pot and you cook the food with these iron, like, shapes and to increase the iron.

Roland: 07:12

Oh, yes. I've I've seen this.

Michael Scalar: 07:13

And I'm just like... I remember hearing this and be like, seriously?

Roland: 07:18

And what... Like, there's not just one form of iron. Right? Like Yeah. You gotta be careful with iron supplementation.

Roland: 07:24

A lot of people who take iron supplements as well get severely constipated. And when you're constipated, you know poo. When you know poo, you know detox. When you know detox, you know good.

Michael Scalar: 07:34

Yeah. You you don't wanna be full of shit.

Roland: 07:35

Not... Well, I am half the time, but every morning, at least I'm empty for at least a couple hours. But in all in all actuality, vegetable iron is inferior in terms of the body's ability to incorporate it, and there are a few strategies. You can add some lemon juice to spinach or various other greens because the citric acid and lemon juice helps the body absorb vegetable iron more effectively.

Michael Scalar: 07:58

Oh, ladies ladies, if you're vegetarian or just low on iron.

Roland: 08:02

Yeah. Is it equal how nature has all of

Michael Scalar: 08:04

these solutions? Throw some lemon on your spinach.

Roland: 08:07

But fundamentally, these nutrients are things that a lot of vegetarians struggle with, and and men men don't lose iron unless you're giving blood on a regular basis. So on the other side of the coin, people who excessively use performance enhancing supplements and eat certain kinds of foods, they can have too much iron in the body. And this is something that's worthwhile to talk about for women supplementing iron. Iron is a master nutrient, but also a master toxin. So iron is a metal.

Roland: 08:35

Metals are reactive. Okay? And our body deals a lot in physics. We talk about biophysics as the the thing that ultimately operates the body.

Michael Scalar: 08:45

Right.

Roland: 08:45

If there are too many unpaired electrons, this is what a theoretical is. If you've heard of the concept of oxidative damage, you have this little rogue thing inside your body that is looking for its partner. Mhmm. That likes balance. That's what an antioxidant does.

Roland: 09:00

It donates an electron, and it neutralizes the issue, which is why vitamin c, vitamin e, various food color, constituents Blueberries. Blueberries, turmeric, the oranges, the reds, the greens, the antioxidants stop the body from rusting.

Michael Scalar: 09:15

Mhmm. You're rusting.

Roland: 09:16

It's really... That's what it happens inside. Yeah. Yeah. It's rains, what happens to the brakes of your car?

Roland: 09:21

They're rusty. They're... Get rusty. That's oxidization. Yeah.

Roland: 09:24

If you have a nice bottle of wine, you leave the wine out for a day, it tastes like vinegar. That's oxidization. So oxygen... Excessive oxygen in the presence of iron can cause stress to the body. So you're creating a reaction in your body that it doesn't have a defense for because you're over supplementing iron.

Roland: 09:42

And typically, people who over supplement iron who have higher levels of iron in their bodies usually develop cardiovascular issues in the long run.

Michael Scalar: 09:50

Oh, so you're saying it... To avoid cardiovascular, maintain a proper iron.

Roland: 09:54

Always maintain a proper iron

Michael Scalar: 09:55

need some regular blood work for it

Roland: 09:57

to It does. And sometimes with people have high ferritin levels, that can be indicative of them having some sort of viral bacterial infection that's out of control in their system, but little tangential. But, yeah, back to the point of protein and nutritional intake from a a vegetarian perspective, there are things of... The deck is stacked against you unless you find a way to supplement. So, you know, you being a vegetarian, how do you deal with these things?

Roland: 10:21

Because I just explained like the theoretical side of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Michael Scalar: 10:24

Let's talk practicality. Go to practicality. I've I've tried a lot a lot of different things and different protein sources for me in current... I mean, literally my whole life I've been playing with it. I definitely have to do protein shakes.

Michael Scalar: 10:37

It's the only way I feel like I actually... And I feel fuller too. Because if I'm just eating fruit, vegetables, or... And maybe throwing some cheese and carbs in, I tend to get really hungry. So what I found recently, they make some like clear proteins.

Michael Scalar: 10:50

So I'll kind of sip those through the day. And then I'll do two to three like actual protein shakes. So I leave my gym, I have a protein shake. This morning, woke up and I had a protein shake. And at...

Michael Scalar: 11:00

In the evening, I'll get hungry, and I'll I'll have a protein shake. So I'm probably getting about 80 grams of protein in a day from protein shakes.

Roland: 11:07

And are you doing whey protein? I am. Or are you trying some vegetarian vegan proteins?

Michael Scalar: 11:11

Don't like the vegan proteins. They they taste grainy. Their texture is not... They're really hard to the stomach. And so it's it's like one thing, like, is it probably healthier?

Michael Scalar: 11:20

Possibly. It's that... Possibly.

Roland: 11:22

Conditionally for the person if they're dairy intolerant. Whey protein is... Well, whey protein is superior

Michael Scalar: 11:28

Mhmm.

Roland: 11:29

In terms of its growth potential. Right?

Michael Scalar: 11:32

Yeah.

Roland: 11:32

A protein has what's called the biological value. The biological value is how easy can your body break this down and use it. So whey protein is kind of one of the gold standards.

Michael Scalar: 11:42

Mhmm.

Roland: 11:42

Plant protein is inferior because you have to process it more to purify the protein. There is a little bit of a higher carbohydrate and fat content in there, but the amino acid profile isn't as good for supporting things like muscle growth and recovery. And some people actually become really reactive to the the plant proteins because of the dreaded lectins. You know what these things are?

Michael Scalar: 12:05

No. Enlighten us. So there's

Roland: 12:06

this whole... And and I'm I'm

Michael Scalar: 12:07

kinda Lectin me on it.

Roland: 12:08

Lectin... I'll I'll... I'm going to lecture you. Yeah. I'm kind of saying this in a tongue in cheek way because there are some health professionals who have essentially created platforms on plants are trying to kill you, avoid all these plants because lectins and phytic acid and all these plant chemicals are pissing off your immune system.

Michael Scalar: 12:25

Valid.

Roland: 12:26

There is a logical track of thought here. Plants don't have claws or teeth. They can't defend themselves. I'm sure a plant does not like to be eaten and pooped out by a human, but that's a cycle of life. Sometimes plants develop these chemical defense systems to deter things from consuming them, but they're typically designed to ward off bugs and pests, things of much smaller biological size than humans.

Roland: 12:48

But they have the quality of being mildly irritating to the human digestive tract to the human microbiome. Why this matters is if we're talking about someone who's immunocompromised, someone who's very unhealthy, very sick, I mean, besides getting in the EE system, they have to be very mindful of what it is they consume. So let's say you have someone who has multiple sclerosis, some sort of autoimmune condition. The connection point there is the food they eat can throw off their immune system by creating excessive amounts of stress. Right.

Roland: 13:17

That stress in the form of something that is theoretically healthy, oh, I'm eating a plant, therefore the plant should be good for me, and I should eat it and feel great. The reality is if you're concentrating protein in a plant in a way that it was never meant to be consumed in nature, 30 grams of pure plant protein would be had over the course of a day or two if you're eating normal foods. So the quantity of the concentration of lectins and various other things might be a little bit too much for someone to tolerate, and as a result, it gives them at best abdominal discomfort. At worst, I've seen just brain fog, mood dysregulations, all kinds of negative consequences because that quantity of plant protein being an inferior source is not well tolerated by their body.

Michael Scalar: 14:03

Yeah. Well, I mean, I've just never really... I've never found a plant protein that like I tasted... I could stomach. And if I can't if I can't eat it, then what's the point?

Michael Scalar: 14:13

Mhmm. So outside of the protein supplementing with, you know, shakes or drinks, I found that tempeh is a really great source of protein for me. It's a high protein, moderate carb fat ratio.

Roland: 14:28

And tempeh is soybean, fermented soybean.

Michael Scalar: 14:30

Fermented soybean. So like I don't do a lot of tofu.

Roland: 14:33

Which is good because most tofu is GMO and disgusting. Well, it's all organic.

Michael Scalar: 14:37

All organic, but it still has an estrogen mimic. Phytoestrogen properties. Yeah. Yeah. So I try to avoid a lot of that.

Michael Scalar: 14:44

Like, so I do eat a bit of tofu, but at home, I pretty much avoid tofu. Tofu is more of like a restaurant. It's like, I need some protein with these vegetables and rice. At home, I I have a ton of tempeh. And I'll just like throw it on every salads because it's actually a really great source and the fermented part removes that estrogen complex.

Roland: 15:03

And it is a good quality plant protein. Yeah. It's one of the few complete proteins that don't confirm animals.

Michael Scalar: 15:08

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's...

Roland: 15:09

That's good move.

Michael Scalar: 15:10

That that's that's my... And then cheese. Pretty much cheese with every meal.

Roland: 15:15

I mean, you are Italiano.

Michael Scalar: 15:17

Yeah. I love cheese. What can we say? You know, those are my protein combos. I do your...

Michael Scalar: 15:22

You recommend the Perfect Amino?

Roland: 15:23

That's one of my things that I like to recommend for people. I don't

Michael Scalar: 15:27

know it's a huge difference, but I know it's healthy.

Roland: 15:28

Give you... And unless you're so severely deficient that all of a sudden your body feels incredible because you're repleting things that are gone. Mhmm. You're not gonna feel an amino acid supplement just like you're not gonna feel your muscles growing after you drink a protein shake post workout.

Michael Scalar: 15:42

Feels swollen.

Roland: 15:43

It doesn't work that way. You gotta fill out that nice jacket.

Michael Scalar: 15:45

Yeah. But

Roland: 15:46

but that that is a good point to where these things are not meant to be taken and expecting an effect. You're giving your body the raw materials that it needs. The only way you're gonna feel a difference is if you're so deficient that your body having the restoration of these things come in on a regular basis is gonna make them... The physiology operate as it was intended to do. But, you know, you you...

Roland: 16:10

We're talking about protein, and I think there's something that's worth mentioning because in the last few years, all of these companies that are meat alternatives have popped up, and you see Beyond Meat, and you see all of these, like, to me, this is not food.

Michael Scalar: 16:23

I think we should have a definitely conversation about this because you're right.

Roland: 16:26

So these things are being marketed as a better safe environmentally sustainable alternative to the perils of plant

Michael Scalar: 16:34

What's this? Beyond Meat is Franken food. It's garbage. It's disgusting. I refuse to eat it.

Michael Scalar: 16:39

Textured wheat protein. Specifically, that brand especially Yes. Makes me have the it is, the Like, if I eat it, I'm just like, And it doesn't even taste really that great. But when you look at what's in it, it's it's just a bunch of processed fats.

Roland: 16:53

The ingredient listing is like six lines long.

Michael Scalar: 16:57

It's gross.

Roland: 16:57

It's not real food. And this is where I think the vegetarian trap begins for people.

Michael Scalar: 17:02

This... You were back to the Carbatarian concept here. Junk fooditarian.

Roland: 17:06

Yeah. We're getting into... If something's labeled vegetarian, the association is healthy. Yeah. If something is craftily marketed as an altruistic choice for humanity, for society Yeah.

Roland: 17:19

Or for the the well-being of animals sparing them to eat something else, that's a story that's not necessarily rooted in something truly beneficial for you as an individual. The trap for the vegetarian and the vegan is the processed food market plays upon your desires and also your associations. Like, I've always sat and thought through this. Why does a vegan wanna have fake bacon? Like, you're a vegan, for example, not you, but someone's a vegan.

Roland: 17:44

The idea of bacon should make you sick.

Michael Scalar: 17:46

Well, I mean, I guess I'm the rare one where I was raised vegetarian, I've never had real bacon, but I do like some of the fake bacons. I do like some of the fake meats. I use them sparingly and I'm very picky about... And I don't even remember the names of the brand, I can't even recommend them. But most of them are like Satan.

Michael Scalar: 18:02

So they're just... Satan? Satan. Yeah. Gluten.

Roland: 18:06

Okay.

Michael Scalar: 18:07

Yes. So Satan's one of those fake meat products, but it's more like an... A less processed one. Yeah. But most...

Michael Scalar: 18:12

I really go hard on looking at the ingredients. If it's a long list, I'd stay away from it. And I really go sparing on the fake meats, because it's mostly soy protein and wheat gluten. Yep. And the protein content is reasonable on there, but you just can't eat a ton of that stuff.

Michael Scalar: 18:28

It does make you a gassy. It's hard to But

Roland: 18:30

it's not... Like, we're not meant to eat a quantity of wheat gluten as a protein in isolation. But my original point is if someone is really into the idea of vegetarianism or veganism for, like, the strictness of the discipline, which I respect because some people do it for religious views, some people do it for spiritual beliefs, that's what you've told me. Because I was curious as to why you're like, it's my spiritual beliefs.

Michael Scalar: 18:51

I was just raised that way.

Roland: 18:52

But for me, this conversation ended. I don't think that you should do anything that doesn't align with your spiritual beliefs. But if you're doing it for these reasons, you need to be optimal in your choices. One thing that's not optimal is trying to recreate an omnivorous diet that's an illusion by chasing a food item that should not technically be in your world to you in the first place. Why would you wanna eat a fake steak?

Roland: 19:16

Like, why would you wanna eat something?

Michael Scalar: 19:17

I mean, the the experience. I mean, I kinda get your point, but I'll argue with

Roland: 19:21

To me, it's it's interesting because I can't understand why. It'd like in the same way, I'm having a meat version of this is like a steak, but it's in the shape of a portobello mushroom because I just want to have a meat based portobello mushroom. To me as to why I would desire such a thing, unless it's something that kind of pulls on a positive memory of the past or something I used to love, but I gave it up. Like, I understand that association, but what I'm saying is companies are using that as a way to pull you into their world. Well...

Roland: 19:49

Selling you something that's not good for you because you used to have a positive memory of eating this

Michael Scalar: 19:53

Maybe. I think most of the companies are trying to create, an alternative because, you know, there's potential food supply issues, which is why Beyond Meat was created by, Bill Gates.

Roland: 20:04

That's a reason that was stated for

Michael Scalar: 20:05

its creation. So I mean, most of the fake meats out there are over processed, have really terrible ingredients in them, are using GMO sources of different ingredients. So I mean, again, if you're gonna eat fake meat, you'd be highly selective with which it is. Most of the commercial big brands, the things you're you're gonna find in restaurants and things like that are... They're Franken food.

Michael Scalar: 20:27

They're super unhealthy. But for those who are being selective, I mean, it's just when you are a vegetarian, your food choices are limited. You know, we're literally have half the food choices practically.

Roland: 20:39

Yeah. Restaurants are not your friends always.

Michael Scalar: 20:41

Yeah. I mean, you've been out and you've been like, why don't you just order appetizers only? Something vegetarian that was out there. I

Roland: 20:46

felt bad. I thought that appetizers were forever the other day. That was your actual dinner and I ate half your dinner.

Michael Scalar: 20:52

A bunch of appetizers and him and burrito, like, go ham. It was like quarter quarter quarter, everyone around the table. And then their food came in like, well, where's your entree? I'm like, you guys kinda ate it.

Roland: 21:01

That was it. It was a bunch of paste and bowls.

Michael Scalar: 21:04

We were having Mediterranean because they were like, we're just having the, you know, hummus, babas, and a little bit of bread.

Roland: 21:09

The restaurant's off the list.

Michael Scalar: 21:10

Yeah. Like, sit there, tried to tried to eat there. They're like, what? You didn't order anything else? I'm like, we ordered a bunch of sides.

Michael Scalar: 21:17

We ordered everything

Roland: 21:19

that we possibly could. We were

Michael Scalar: 21:20

just like, alright, guess they're hungry.

Roland: 21:23

But, know, it's it's back to that. And and that's where I... To your point to counter what I said, because I love a a good debate sometimes. I understand the wanting to feel like you're included and having the options and and the viable choices for... Yeah.

Roland: 21:37

I have my version of this. But also when I come back to the principles around it, I was like, if someone doesn't wanna eat meat, why would they wanna replicate bacon? Like, it it's... It would remind them of something... I don't

Michael Scalar: 21:48

know if it could actually even taste like bacon because I've never had bacon, but I mean, it's like a smoky flavor, I guess. Yeah. So I'm a smoky cheese.

Roland: 21:55

You you and I are both like barbecue barbecue flavor flavor stuff. Stuff.

Michael Scalar: 21:57

Oh, I I

Roland: 21:57

love love barbecue. Barbecue. And what I laugh is like, what do think of barbeque brisket, pulled pork, ribs, but it's a delicious flavor combination.

Michael Scalar: 22:04

I mean, barbecue sauce is the con the convent of choice.

Roland: 22:07

It's amazing. Yeah. So, yes, the original point to that is if you are wanting to participate in alternative vegetarian choices, the kinds of proteinaceous foods that you're being pulled into, especially in the processed world, and then we can introduce what you talked about the carbatarian. Because

Michael Scalar: 22:25

Most burrito bread. Well, that's what

Roland: 22:28

you're left with. Right? And and metabolically, you know, I... I've been a nutritionist for many years. I don't do a lot of nutritional practice anymore, but early on in in my career, I was having to deal with a lot of metabolic issues.

Roland: 22:40

And occasionally, get a vegetarian client and they are my most challenging because I go, what the hell am I gonna feed these people? Because when I start thinking about

Michael Scalar: 22:48

taking spinach and spinach and an apple.

Roland: 22:50

But you start thinking about taking away the quantity of protein, you gotta replace it with something because a bowl of white pasta, rice pasta by itself is not all that much fun. But the hard part is a lot of the prepackaged vegetarian foods are high in fats and high in carbs. Yeah. At the beginning of this episode, I said, nature really doesn't do that together. Fats and carbs are two different sources of fuel, and there's a very dynamic interplay between the two.

Roland: 23:16

When you eat carbohydrates, we've talked about this about on the GLP one episode, you raise your blood sugar, you raise your insulin.

Michael Scalar: 23:22

Mhmm.

Roland: 23:23

When insulin and blood sugar are high, your body's in the storage mode. Yeah. So when you're chronically raising your blood sugar and you're also introducing fats in the form of dietary intake, your body is in storage mode. And if there's a high quantity of sugar and a high quantity of fats floating around your bloodstream, then it's easy to package those away.

Michael Scalar: 23:42

Mhmm.

Roland: 23:43

If you're doing that all the time, that's a recipe for weight gain. And people who do vegetarianism poorly, I see over the course of not months, but like a couple years, they start to become a little more heavyset because they're flushing their body with incredible amounts of energy, and they're not active enough to disperse it properly. So that's another hard thing that the vegetarians have to manage. They have to really understand how to combine things well. Like, if you're gonna do a big bowl of grains, don't put a lot of fat on it.

Roland: 24:11

Don't put a lot of oils. Don't put a lot of things that are excessive amounts of energy if you're not gonna be active, if you're gonna be sedentary. You have to be very discerning about how you're gonna fuel your body.

Michael Scalar: 24:22

Yeah. No. Being vegetarian and staying healthy is a touch and go kind of thing. I do a lot of supplementation, again, with the protein shakes, but most people who are vegetarian, they definitely start out in the carbatarian. They're not doing a lot of supplementing.

Michael Scalar: 24:36

Mhmm. It's really strange too because some are ultra skinny and some are extremely overweight, but the the ultra skinny ones almost always are telling me they have like weird gut issues.

Roland: 24:47

They're the unhealthiest actually. Yeah. They're they're the ones that are more predisposed to developing diseases because they're stuck in deficiency. Yeah. You can be in deficiency and have excessive weight on you, but excessive weight is a protective mechanism for the body.

Roland: 25:01

When someone can't gain weight, that's a person who's closer to starvation. So their system is very fragile. Their constitution is much weaker. They're usually vitamin and mineral deficient. They're amino acid, protein deficient.

Roland: 25:14

And you're right, not only do they have gut issues, they typically have a weak immune system. Yeah. Because the immune system needs adequate protein and amino acids to operate. They have a propensity for psychological emotional issues because the neurotransmitters are thrown off. Yeah.

Roland: 25:28

So, you know, they can just fly off the handle real quickly. Teradata That's hilarious. I knew someone who was a friend of mine who was known for making pterodactyl sounds. I wonder if she was a vegan. No offense.

Roland: 25:39

And then the last thing is they don't have stress tolerance and adaptations. They're always tired Because your body needs adequate raw materials to make energy, to build your mitochondria, to regulate, you know, your metabolism and thyroid function. So if people aren't doing vegetarianism well, there is the path to illness based upon deficiency. Mhmm. You know, and and how I would structure a vegetarian diet is always start with foods as they look in nature.

Michael Scalar: 26:09

Well, I I was gonna say one one of my favorite things more recently is I'm trying to eat a lot more fruits. Yes. And fresh fruits, not precut fruit fruits. I'm really heavy on melons, kiwis. Obviously, lemon juice is great.

Michael Scalar: 26:23

Don't... I don't get into... We don't get a lot of great citruses lately, but I do love a good tangerine. But pineapple, may... When I was in Asia, I was recently there.

Michael Scalar: 26:32

I was going ham on mangoes

Roland: 26:33

The and the the in season fruit in different parts of the world. It's the best.

Michael Scalar: 26:38

It's unbeatable. Coming back to America is actually really hard to get good produce. In Asia, they... You're basically next to the farm practically. Amazing watermelon, amazing...

Roland: 26:46

Mango, soursop, all the good stuff.

Michael Scalar: 26:48

Yeah. It's hard to find soursop actually. That's a... That is a superfood. Yes.

Michael Scalar: 26:52

But my... Back to my point is trying to eat a lot more fruits. They're high... Typically high in nutrition.

Roland: 26:58

They're high in vitamins, minerals, but they also have fiber to offset the sugar content, so they don't offend your blood sugar nearly as much.

Michael Scalar: 27:05

So earlier in the day, like I would start the day with a plate of fruit and maybe a coffee. And I was... And I would actually sometimes have fruit for lunch as well. And there might be like a little yogurt in there Mhmm. Or a protein shake or two in between.

Michael Scalar: 27:19

But I was actually fully sustainable on energy levels even while working out but just eating a ton of fruit. Mhmm.

Roland: 27:24

And

Michael Scalar: 27:25

I was just like, wow, this is great. I'm like, man, I gotta figure out where to get good fruit back home because I can do this.

Roland: 27:31

And it's just so easy because fruit is alive. Right? It's full of enzymes, so it actually helps you digest itself as you're eating it. As I mentioned before, different fruits and vegetables... Well, talking fruits, but vegetables can be lumped into this.

Roland: 27:44

There's a variety of different vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, trace minerals in there that your body needs, and fruit has a lot of different kinds of fibers to feed the bacteria that live in your gut. Yeah. And unlike certain vegetables, it doesn't have a lot of those antinutrients. Fruit is one of the things even the most hardcore carnivore people can't live without in their diet because it provides you so much nutrition. So I I like that as a premise, you know, using high quality fruits, some vegetables, and really good quality grains and legumes

Michael Scalar: 28:14

Mhmm.

Roland: 28:15

Are probably the best place to start in terms of the plant world.

Michael Scalar: 28:18

We need... You need living food and that that carbitarian thing. You got a lot of vegetarians out there or vegans that are straight carbs. And it's processed carbs. It provides minimal...

Michael Scalar: 28:27

It's gonna fill your stomach, but it's not gonna provide you nutrition.

Roland: 28:31

It will make you hungrier because you have a massive rise in blood sugar followed by a massive crash. And most of the offenders are the white flour, the white sugar, the white rice. And if you wanna get really creative, you can learn how to cook these things to modify how your body breaks them down and slows the rise of blood sugar. You know, you know, boiling and cooling potatoes or making your rice

Michael Scalar: 28:52

I was just gonna say it like, for those who are on the carbs and trying trying to be healthier, like sweet potatoes are freaking amazing. Squash, beets, carrots,

Roland: 29:00

all the root vegetables. I mean, if you can figure out how to cook a rutabaga or a yuca, those again are incredible foods that are much better than the typical processed stuff that you're gonna open it from a package, dump in a bottle of boiling water or a pot of boiling water and then a jar of sauce on and eat just out of convenience.

Michael Scalar: 29:18

Yeah. And I'm not saying I'm perfect either. Do love me some pasta.

Roland: 29:22

There are

Michael Scalar: 29:22

choices, but it's it's... It shouldn't be every meal. No. So like I was saying, do a lot of fruits, supplement protein in, typically have one salad in a day and one like heavy carb meal. Yep.

Michael Scalar: 29:32

And you're pretty much satiated with that.

Roland: 29:34

And a good strategy for vegetarians, if you're active, the days you're active, you can get a little bit more intense with the carbohydrate servings. And the days you're more sedentary, bring in some more healthy fats. Go a little lower on the grains, but do some fruits maybe with some avocado and some macadamia nuts or some fresh coconut. And fats are gonna help keep your energy level more stable and keep you more satiated. And then if you can sprinkle in, like you said, some eggs, some cheese, some yogurt, some cottage cheese, for example, which is a pretty good protein source.

Roland: 30:06

These nuts, yes. Those nuts, yours not yours. Yeah. Got them. Actually, I took my rancid I wonder how many people will get that.

Roland: 30:16

50%.

Michael Scalar: 30:16

Let me know in the comments. Comment these notes if you

Roland: 30:19

got it. I took my rancid salty nuts back to Whole Foods today on your suggestion. Those were disgusting, but macadamia nuts are one of my

Michael Scalar: 30:25

favorite settings.

Roland: 30:26

I did before and I ate them at the end of a meal, so I didn't really have a good scope of...

Michael Scalar: 30:31

I stole some of his macadamias the other day and I nearly spit it out. Were so rancid and they

Roland: 30:35

were He put his hands on my nuts without asking I grabbed

Michael Scalar: 30:38

his nuts and I

Roland: 30:39

ate them.

Michael Scalar: 30:40

I can't believe I just said that. Okay.

Roland: 30:44

But in all seriousness, the key is is is understanding what macronutrients and micronutrients are in the foods that you're eating, and understanding how to balance them in terms of the assembly of a meal and how to feed yourself throughout the course of the day to do what you said. Try to hit adequate protein intake. Supplementation in addition to relying upon eggs and various aspects of dairy. Not going nuts on the processed carbs, but eating... Keeps coming back.

Roland: 31:13

Think we might have to take a trip to Whole Foods after this. Not crazy with processed grains and simple sugars.

Michael Scalar: 31:20

In general. Yeah.

Roland: 31:22

Sticking to fruit for carbohydrates, root vegetables, and green vegetables and the like aren't super dense in calorie nutrition, but they are high in vitamins, minerals, and fibers. Iron, I believe it is. And then using supplements strategically. You know, the one of my favorite foods to supplement that is an incredible protein source that is not truly a processed protein is spirulina chlorella. Algae.

Michael Scalar: 31:49

Yeah. Yeah.

Roland: 31:50

You could... Because what people don't realize is biological value and utilization really matters. So a small quantity of things like the tablets of spirulina or chlorella, I use these on a regular basis just for the nutritional value, but your body assimilates that protein so effectively.

Michael Scalar: 32:06

Right.

Roland: 32:07

So you can use a little bit less and get the net result of what your body's actually using, but you have to do it on a regular basis.

Michael Scalar: 32:14

Yeah. So, yeah. My supplement stack is basically a multivitamin, amino... Perfect amino, probiotic, some other random things, but those are the main ones.

Roland: 32:25

And what's your good foundation of nutritional supplements? You know, we we... You've talked about supplements, we may be talking about supplements sooner than later. Supplements are a very nuanced topic. And if you're wanting to maximize your nutrition, you want the things that your body needs every day.

Roland: 32:41

You need vitamins, you need minerals, you need these raw materials because without them, your body can't run optimally.

Michael Scalar: 32:46

Yeah. And and your body is electric, so trace minerals.

Roland: 32:49

Minerals. I would think every single human on this planet is mineral deficient.

Michael Scalar: 32:54

That's... Probably fair assumption.... Actually take trace minerals, and they're not giving it in their diet.

Roland: 32:59

No. Yeah. And especially if you filter your water properly, you are removing all of the good aspects of what little benefit is in municipal water. Yeah. So adding some trace minerals back to your water.

Roland: 33:10

Minerals are catalysts to make everything else work better. Every chemical reaction in the body requires a vitamin or a mineral.

Michael Scalar: 33:16

True. I think it's a great place to leave it. Hopefully, everyone's, gotten a little education, whether you're vegetarian, not vegetarian, maybe learn a little bit of something. Let us know in the comments. Like, comment, subscribe, all that good stuff.

Michael Scalar: 33:26

We will see you next time.