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An inspiring conversation with Wink Jones, CEO and founding member of Meal Ticket. Since its launch in 2011, Meal Ticket has been transforming the food service industry with cutting-edge technology.
Wink takes us on his journey from starting in a small garage to leading a company that processes billions in sales data. He shares the challenges and rewards of building relationships in the food tech space, highlights the value of face-to-face interactions, and explains how Meal Ticket uses data to empower restaurants and distributors.
We explore the current state of hospitality technology, the growing influence of AI, and emerging trends to watch as we approach 2025. Wink also offers actionable advice for aspiring entrepreneurs, emphasizing the importance of financial awareness and perseverance in achieving success.
Whether you're part of the hospitality industry or curious about how technology is reshaping food service, this episode is filled with insights and inspiration you won’t want to miss!
Audio Timestamps.
Wink takes us on his journey from starting in a small garage to leading a company that processes billions in sales data. He shares the challenges and rewards of building relationships in the food tech space, highlights the value of face-to-face interactions, and explains how Meal Ticket uses data to empower restaurants and distributors.
We explore the current state of hospitality technology, the growing influence of AI, and emerging trends to watch as we approach 2025. Wink also offers actionable advice for aspiring entrepreneurs, emphasizing the importance of financial awareness and perseverance in achieving success.
Whether you're part of the hospitality industry or curious about how technology is reshaping food service, this episode is filled with insights and inspiration you won’t want to miss!
Audio Timestamps.
[00:01:43] Distributor data mining for marketing.
[00:08:11] Relationship first in technology.
[00:10:41] Data ownership and management.
[00:11:47] Human to human relationships.
[00:16:20] Building relationships in business.
[00:20:28] Travel's impact on business perspective.
[00:25:19] AI's impact on the restaurant industry.
[00:26:31] AI in operational efficiency.
[00:30:35] Startup challenges and serendipity.
[00:33:49] Serendipitous luck in entrepreneurship.
[00:36:16] Guest suggestions and topics.
Quotes
00:01:20 - "I think it's really hard to engage in a partnership or do something really strategic unless you've sat down at dinner together."
00:04:22 - "We got like crazy click rates, and then they sold out in like two hours."
00:05:40 - "The fun and challenging thing about food tech is that I think we're behind the technology curve as an industry in general."
00:08:59 - "What we do want to do is help them stay in business. We want them to be smarter."
00:12:24 - "But the way that we treat data, the sanctity that we treat data with, it's one of our core values is that your data is your data."
00:12:30 - "Data does tell a story. They could tell us the right story, but we have to put it in a way to make that story accessible, understandable, and usable."
00:16:45 - "I think it's really hard to engage in a partnership or do something really strategic unless you've sat down at dinner together."
00:18:24 - "Technology is only as good as the people that are using it, right?"
00:22:03 - "I didn't expect what I experienced there."
00:25:01 - "We have to make sure that what we're providing isn't just a nice to have, but it actually is saving them money and helping them stay in business."
00:27:12 - "I don't think anybody wants to sit at a bar and be served by a robot yet."
00:28:14 - "I'd like to say in a cheeky way that we've been using AI since AI was cool."
00:32:43 - "You can't underestimate the amount of work that goes in and the amount of serendipity that is responsible for success."
00:34:24 - "Just be careful about taking on financing and you're married to your investors."
00:36:25 - "It's really easy to get lost in the here and now and not the full picture."
Connect
Meal Ticket: https://www.mealticket.com/
Wink Jones:https://www.linkedin.com/in/wink-jones-ba58b0/
Omniboost: https://omniboost.io/
Rob Napoli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robnap/
Rob Napoli: https://www.robnapoli.com/
Show Produced by: Niranjan Deshpande (Nick), Broken Frames Studio, www.brokenframesstudio.com
Creators & Guests
What is Hospitable?
Hospitable is a podcast that discusses how to make hospitality MORE human through technology.
Hospitable focuses on discussing the leading challenges facing the hospitality industry and to explore the latest trends, technologies, and best practices that are shaping the industry. Each episode features interviews with hoteliers, restaurateurs, chefs, industry analysts, and other experts who share their insights and experiences on topics such as customer experience, sustainability, innovation, staffing, and more.
Hosted by Rob Napoli
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:02:12
Rob Napoli
What's your drink of choice when you're in a business meeting at dinner?
00:00:02:14 - 00:00:04:06
Wink Jones
I am a vodka guy.
00:00:04:08 - 00:00:05:11
Rob Napoli
Okay there you go.
00:00:05:13 - 00:00:07:12
Wink Jones
Vodka on the rocks
00:00:07:14 - 00:00:13:19
Rob Napoli
I love it. So what was that like, being a part of the founding team and then that transition now to being CEO.
00:00:13:24 - 00:00:31:22
Wink Jones
At the time, a $200 billion business where sales reps are walking in the back door. These restaurants slap on the backs of the restaurant owner taking orders on a paper. And it was four guys in a garage back in 2011. You know, if we just build a little bit of software for this vertical and we ought to be able to build software to kind of help drive them into the 21st century,
00:00:31:23 - 00:00:37:02
Rob Napoli
The kind of old Silicon Valley dream of starting in a garage. And you saw a problem and you figuring a way to attack it.
00:00:37:06 - 00:00:45:12
Wink Jones
It's a really tough business. Distribution is very thin margin. Operator. Restaurants are very, very tough. They go out of business at a super high rate.
00:00:45:14 - 00:00:52:20
Rob Napoli
How do you try to simplify the product and really give the data in a clean way for them to use that to be available to really make smart decisions?
00:00:53:01 - 00:01:01:10
Wink Jones
Like anybody can build software. The sanctity that we treat data with, it's one of our core values. It's that this is your data. We want to make better and we want to make you more powerful because of that.
00:01:01:11 - 00:01:09:18
Rob Napoli
What do you think has been one of the most successful things for you or successful for the company to really develop those relationships, being a relationship first type of leader.
00:01:09:21 - 00:01:20:13
Wink Jones
You just can't build that relationship over the phone. The willingness to put in that effort, I think, is what got us some trust and acceptance. You know, we don't just send emails. It's that stuff gets done in person.
00:01:20:18 - 00:01:28:08
Rob Napoli
Being on the road, being a facetime is something different, whether it's straight shows or doing calls like this virtually is great. You can build a relationship, but something about being in person.
00:01:28:11 - 00:01:43:09
Wink Jones
I think it's really hard to engage in a partnership or do something really strategic, unless you've sat down at dinner together and that's at a restaurant ironically, and that's why it's so important, you know
00:01:43:11 - 00:02:03:03
Rob Napoli
Hey, y'all, how we doing? We're back again for another episode of hospitable. And today I am joined by the CEO of Meal Ticket. Wink Jones. Wink was a part of the founding team at Meal Ticket back in 2011, and he was inspired by a strategic vision to bring modern technology to an underserved industry. And this all you know, listen to this podcast.
00:02:03:03 - 00:02:12:08
Rob Napoli
We're all about how to make hospitality more human through technology. It's something that, I know Wink is passionate about. So Wink welcome to the show, my friend.
00:02:12:10 - 00:02:13:18
Wink Jones
Thanks, Rob great to be here.
00:02:13:20 - 00:02:31:12
Rob Napoli
Yeah. So, you know, you started as part of the founding team. Well, 2011 doesn't seem that long ago, but it's been a little bit. So what was that like, being a part of the founding team and then that transition now to being CEO. And I'm sure that there's been a lot of lessons along the way.
00:02:31:12 - 00:02:34:12
Rob Napoli
So was that, that brief journey left on, like, for you?
00:02:34:14 - 00:03:06:15
Wink Jones
Yeah. It's, I've learned a lot. It's been quite a journey. I mean, we were, literally four guys in a garage. Back in 2011, I was introduced to our current CTO and my partner, Brian Konrath by mutual friend. And, I was kind of between things, and he was a we were not food service guys, and he just, he was describing the food service business and specifically the activities of distributor sales reps and how, you know, there's, at the time, a $200 billion business where sales reps are walking in the back door.
00:03:06:15 - 00:03:35:10
Wink Jones
These restaurants slap on the backs of the restaurant owner, taking orders on a paper. And it was, you know, 2011 feels like a long time ago. But there were Apple phones at that time and smart phones, and we just couldn't believe it that so many people were going to market that way. And so we started with the, the theme or the thesis that, you know, if we just build a little bit software for this vertical that we ought to get adoption and we ought to be able to build software to kind of help drive them into the 21st century.
00:03:35:12 - 00:03:54:09
Wink Jones
So we started with this, like really basic idea that we would take a distributor's data mine it and then tell them who to market to and what to market. We built a little app that basically allowed us to do this kind of deal of a day idea, and our first deal was with a distributor in Oregon. And they had some expiring product.
00:03:54:09 - 00:04:00:03
Wink Jones
They had tater tots and mini corn dogs and a bunch of like old beef patties
00:04:00:05 - 00:04:02:00
Rob Napoli
Sounds like a high school lunch.
00:04:02:02 - 00:04:18:05
Wink Jones
It was like this terrible product. But they’re like, it’s going to go bad we going to sell it where should we sell it to. We found in their data who should be buying it all those, restaurants received an email with a notice and a deal. We got, like, crazy click rates, and then they sold out right in, like, two hours.
00:04:18:05 - 00:04:40:24
Wink Jones
And so we, you know, we've got something here. And it was just that, thesis then writ large for the next, you know, 6 or 7 years as well. We, we kind of looked for places where the things that the distributor were doing, were very efficient. And we brought modern technology to them through SAS, and, and it was really affordable and kind of everywhere we turned we found people that wanted to buy it.
00:04:41:01 - 00:05:04:01
Rob Napoli
I love it, and it's kind of funny that you bring up that, you know, you aren't really industry, guys, you know, and you see a lot of times that hospitality tech comes from people who have gone through it in industry, and I think it's really close. It kind of feels just right. It feels a little bit like that kind of old Silicon Valley dream of starting in a garage, and you saw a problem and was you figuring a way to attack it.
00:05:04:03 - 00:05:24:05
Rob Napoli
But it's a really cool problem because I think as is, you know, take as going on you know, there's different, brands and you're umbrella you've acquired a few companies, obviously, we've met through our relationship in partnership with Market Man. So what's that been like? It been growing. And as you see these different problems attacking it, how have you gone about growing the business in that way, whether it's building new product or acquiring product.
00:05:24:11 - 00:05:29:18
Rob Napoli
Was that like or have you viewed that from a sense of serving the community and keeping to the core purpose?
00:05:29:20 - 00:05:54:22
Wink Jones
Yeah, it's a great question. I think the fun challenging thing about, about food tech is that I think we're behind the technology curve as an industry in general, and I think we're sort of the late adopters to, to new technologies. So, you know, as we were building the company and the product, every time we'd see something working in another industry, we, you know, that would kind of give us ideas to bring to this, to this vertical.
00:05:54:22 - 00:06:22:21
Wink Jones
And so that has worked again along the way as we think about product development. So, so we built like three products under our Meal Ticket umbrella up until 2020. And then, we did our first acquisition in 2020, a company called , Track Max, which is sells back office, rebate management to distributors. At that time, we, we brought in that private equity group, PSG out of Boston.
00:06:22:23 - 00:06:44:21
Wink Jones
They basically took out our, angel seed investors and kind of recap the company. So we had this like fresh start now, with a new investor group that that is very acquisitive. And, you know, they had done very well by, helping companies to grow organically, but then also to help them grow inorganically through, through M&A.
00:06:44:23 - 00:07:05:08
Wink Jones
And a year into that deal, we did our second acquisition, which was Market Man and the idea there was that, you know, we're at that time we were working with a very large piece of, the US distributor, business. And I think we, you know, we think about the, the number of billions of dollars that run through our data as kind of the size of the, of our business.
00:07:05:08 - 00:07:28:10
Wink Jones
And we had about $50 billion worth of sales data, transactions running through our databases, which was somewhere around 20% of the business in total. So it was significant enough, to be really interesting as our exposure to that. And, no one had really, brought inventory management and operator back office to the market, sort of at scale as we Market Man
00:07:28:12 - 00:07:49:18
Wink Jones
And, we saw an opportunity to take a really nice product and then fit it in with our strategy, you know, being distributor centric and having these relationships and having visibility to, you know, hundreds of thousands of restaurants, to be able to bring that product and bring to market through those relationships. And so that gave us this, like, end to end view of, everybody in the supply chain.
00:07:49:18 - 00:08:11:18
Wink Jones
And it's, you know, we work with manufacturers and suppliers, distributors and then through MarketMan we've got the operator set, and really, you know, all along the way what we've had learned, as again, guys new to the business is that, it's a really tough business, a distribution is very thin margin. Operator restaurants are very, very tough.
00:08:11:18 - 00:08:32:01
Wink Jones
They go out of business at a super high rate. And so we, developed this, this passion for helping our customers to be healthy and stay in business. And when you look at, like, what our products tend to do for our customers, it's they save time, they save money. They're, you know, they get smart about how to run their business a lot.
00:08:32:01 - 00:08:47:08
Wink Jones
And, you know, and it's still true. A lot of restaurants run their business on a spreadsheet at best, and some of them are on a piece of paper or a distributors that have been in business for a long time do the same. And we just, we continue to see, ways to modernize their businesses and help them do better what they do best.
00:08:47:08 - 00:09:03:10
Wink Jones
Right. Like, yeah, I don't want to replace sales reps, right? I don't want to replace the relationship that a sales rep has with a restaurant. I don't want to like robotic size restaurant cooking because that's not interesting. And that's not why we go to restaurants. But what we do want to do is help them stay in business.
00:09:03:10 - 00:09:12:11
Wink Jones
We want them to be smarter. We want the closure rate to go down. Like all of those things make our customer base healthier, and it just makes the industry as a whole healthier and more successful.
00:09:12:13 - 00:09:30:03
Rob Napoli
Yeah, there's two things, you know, one, it's funny that you bring up the distributors. And I used to work when I started my career and working for all you can eat pizza buffet. My dad was the assistant manager, and I remember going in early and, you know, getting the order and literally off of, pen and paper checking off.
00:09:30:03 - 00:09:46:04
Rob Napoli
Yep. That's that. So we ordered that that’s what we ordered and taking that and then cross-checking it and writing in the books back in the day. Right. And that's. Yeah. While ago. And so it's crazy to think how that is still common at times. And I love that you bring up the second piece. I love how you bring up the relationship.
00:09:46:04 - 00:09:59:15
Rob Napoli
But we're not trying to take away. And I think that's the fear, right? When you think about the budget of all the technology now, it's taking jobs away. I know you're a big advocate on relationship. First, that's something that, you know, I've seen on your profile and I've seen you talk about it is doing some research on you.
00:09:59:17 - 00:10:19:09
Rob Napoli
It's cool that you bring that up, because I think that the technology that we're building in this industry, there's so much opportunity to use technology. Well, yeah. The other thing is I think there's a lot of technology out there, especially for restaurants and hospitality, that people don't know what to do with. So how do you go about in that process of not taking away those relationships from like the sales people, etc.?
00:10:19:11 - 00:10:38:04
Rob Napoli
But creating data that's actually usable because sometimes data is a lot of data can tell a lot of different stories and a restaurant, for example, has a lot of things to do. You're opening and closing and all these things. So how do you try to simplify the product and really give the data in a clean way for them to use that to be available to, to really make smart decisions?
00:10:38:06 - 00:11:03:05
Wink Jones
It's a great question the acquisition that we announced this last summer, it's a company called Twice Baked. And these guys have basically built a professional services shop around, back office manager for restaurants. So their whole business model was, you know, they were a reseller of MarketMan but they would help resell and then they would get engaged very closely with the restaurants that they sold to.
00:11:03:05 - 00:11:25:08
Wink Jones
So they would basically insert themselves in the back office. They, you know, set up, help them run the businesses, get MarketMan spinning and running and then, you know, eventually peel off and kind of send them on their way or in some, some cases have longer term engagements to actually run the business for them. And so you talk about like how to use data, that's exactly along the lines of how we've engaged with our customers.
00:11:25:08 - 00:11:52:10
Wink Jones
So we've done, you know, we've done that, obviously. On the distributed side, we are very, very hands on with our distributors. And then we actually work with our distributors to help them monetize their data to, the suppliers and then factories. So a lot of our distributors will actually take the data that, we generate from their own data that we've cleaned up and make it digestible, and then they'll take that and they'll go to the manufacturers that they buy from and sell them more data to help them find where to buy more stuff from them.
00:11:52:15 - 00:12:14:02
Wink Jones
So it's, how to sell more stuff to the restaurants so that, becomes this virtual cycle of, you know, we're creating data that every relationship that we have and the more data that we create, the more work we have to do to cleanse that data, make it digestible, normalize it. Not that you do, but etc. but then the more valuable that data becomes back to those constituents that we work with.
00:12:14:04 - 00:12:31:23
Wink Jones
And, that's where I think the real magic is in what we do and where our real moat is, like, anybody can build software. And you see that, right? We have plenty of competitors that are selling inventory management or analytics packages or whatever. But the way that we treat data, the sanctity that we treated with, it's one of our core values.
00:12:31:23 - 00:12:58:15
Wink Jones
It's that your data is your data. Like we don't we're not trying to take your data on it and do anything with it. This is your data that we want to make better, and we want to make you more powerful because of that. And so we have spent a lot of time and effort to make sure that data is a secure but be like valuable and cleansed and useful and, and then it takes that extra step of like humans engaging with humans to like make that data work ultimately to make this business more healthy.
00:12:58:17 - 00:13:16:18
Rob Napoli
Yeah, I love that. And, you know, it's something that I think resonates well in our organizations and something that, you know, attracted us to want to work together because, you know from Omniboost standpoint, that's what we do is we've created semantic layers to to really take that data and make it actionable. Start off with accounting that we built out, have to hold data services and all the different things that we could do.
00:13:16:18 - 00:13:42:10
Rob Napoli
And I think it's really important that you mention is so many companies data is something that we talk a lot about. And there's data transformation, there's data services. There's data this data that. But making data easily readable is something really special and something that we still need to really think about. Because data does tell a story. They could tell us the right story, but we have to put it in a way to make that story accessible, understandable and usable.
00:13:42:10 - 00:14:06:18
Rob Napoli
And that's something that still I really believe is behind the curve because there's just so much data out there. Yeah. So I think that's it's really cool when you look at, you know, we'll look at the relationships you have is you're if you've been out and scaling and growing the business, what do you think has been one of the most successful things for you or successful for the company to really develop those relationships?
00:14:06:18 - 00:14:17:11
Rob Napoli
Being a relationship first type of leader, have you gone out and building these partnerships and building these relationships with customers? What do you think has been the most key to your organizations growth?
00:14:17:13 - 00:14:38:12
Wink Jones
That's gotta think about that for a second, but it's a great question. You know. We put in so, you know, coming from a position of not being a food service guy, when we started, we had to put a lot of face time in on the road. And when we got our, we got our first big distributor customer.
00:14:38:14 - 00:14:58:10
Wink Jones
I went and visited, you know, they have they now have 68 different warehouse locations throughout the country. I think I personally have been through at least 40 of them, over a five year period where I visited all of them in person, talk to everybody in person again, and like it does come back to the relationship standpoint that you just can't build that relationship over the phone.
00:14:58:12 - 00:15:22:23
Wink Jones
And that was way before zoom calls happen. So you can't even see a face until you got in a car, on a plane, you know, visit them. A lot of times they're outside of big cities. So you got to drive all day to get to them. But the willingness to put in that effort, I think, is what got us, some trust and acceptance within the business, because it is when you move up the supply chain into that distributor layer, it's a small and a tight community.
00:15:22:23 - 00:15:46:11
Wink Jones
And, you know, they if they don't know you, they don't trust you. It's really hard to get anywhere. Yeah. And so putting in that time really, really, made a lasting impact to where, you know, now I can claim to be a food service guy, you know, 13, 14 years later, and I'm actually trusted in the business, to take care of data, take care of someone's business, and, you know, and our staff reflects that, right?
00:15:46:11 - 00:16:07:20
Wink Jones
Our staff is, has that same cultural attitude, has that willingness to get in the car, get on the phone. You know, we don't just send emails. It's such an easy thing to fall back on, especially now as companies are looking to become more efficient, you know, less in-person time, less face to face, less phone calls. But, you know, the reality is like that stuff gets done in person.
00:16:07:22 - 00:16:23:09
Wink Jones
Yeah. And so we continue to do that stuff. And I think, you know, again, we talk about, you know, what we're doing a professional services level. It's like there's a lot of other companies that are trying to scale that are also doing what we're doing with a professional services, engagement. And with that human to human touch and contact.
00:16:23:11 - 00:16:43:11
Rob Napoli
Yeah, I love that. And I love that you brought up human to human. You know, it's something that's going around a lot of my friend Shawn P. Walchef, from out of, you know, CaliBBQ Media, digital hospitality. He talks about H2H and how what technology. And he's a big technology advocate. But there's when it comes to hospitality, especially restaurants, it's the human to human.
00:16:43:11 - 00:17:05:07
Rob Napoli
You come to a restaurant, you go there for the experience of being around humans. So I love that you bring up H2H is something that we use here. And the core purpose of ours is willingness to serve is one of our true core ethos. And I love that you bring that up because, yeah, being on the road, being a face time is something different with our history shows, our meetings, and I think zoom and doing calls like this virtually is great.
00:17:05:07 - 00:17:15:01
Rob Napoli
You can build a relationship, but something about being in person, having that human connection and that energy and the buzz and excitement of sitting across from somebody, this is unmatched. So I love that you brought that up.
00:17:15:01 - 00:17:26:17
Wink Jones
And it's I, I think it's really hard to engage in a partnership or do something really strategic, unless you've sat down at dinner together and that's at a restaurant, ironically, and that's why it's so important, you know?
00:17:26:19 - 00:17:33:16
Rob Napoli
Absolutely. What's your what's your drink of choice when you're in a business meeting at dinner? Do you are you a wine guy or a beer guy?
00:17:33:18 - 00:17:35:20
Wink Jones
I'm a vodka guy.
00:17:35:22 - 00:17:37:15
Rob Napoli
Okay there you go.
00:17:37:17 - 00:17:39:24
Wink Jones
Vodka on the rocks
00:17:40:01 - 00:17:51:02
Rob Napoli
I love it I'm more whiskey than vodka, for sure. I'm a huge whiskey fan, so I'm the same. But I also, for my time in Italy, love a little bit of wine as a starter and a whiskey as a finisher.
00:17:51:04 - 00:17:52:06
Wink Jones
Nice.
00:17:52:07 - 00:18:20:03
Rob Napoli
Yeah. No, I, you know, bringing bring that is full circle. It's something that I think is really impactful of, of building relationships and that shows from a hospitality tech perspective. I think it's really important. You know, we're selling tech solutions. Even our selling data is data cleansing and data security and all these things. It still doesn't take away from the fact that we need to build real relationships and help grow together, because that's technology is is only as good as the people that are using it.
00:18:20:03 - 00:18:38:01
Rob Napoli
Right. And so that's really important, impactful piece that you just kind of shared there. So really, really appreciate that. You've been on the road a lot going to these 40 manufacturers. What's the smallest town that you've been to or what was the craziest place that you had to travel to win some business?
00:18:38:03 - 00:18:55:16
Wink Jones
Oh man. There's a couple in, definitely a couple of very small towns in Kentucky that I've been to. I won't say exactly where, because I don't want to put anybody on the spot. But we I'll tell you, we do also, as part of the Meal Ticket, like, software, we do a food show trade show software.
00:18:55:16 - 00:19:16:13
Wink Jones
So we actually go on site and help run these food shows, which if you've been to featured, like, they're, they're different than other trade shows. They're very specific. And that's why, like, we built software for it because nobody else had kind of come into that. And we have a team and people that, travel around. It shows that we do something like 80 physical shows a year where we have where we have people on site.
00:19:16:15 - 00:19:35:13
Wink Jones
We've had I know we had one show and I wasn't on this one, but it was in upstate New York and there were no Uber sorry there's no rental cars in that town. So when they landed, they had to rent a U-Haul and drive a U-Haul, like two hours, across the state to go get to the, distributor.
00:19:35:13 - 00:19:47:12
Wink Jones
Where they were hosting this food show and, and Yeah, I think when they got there, there was no Wi-Fi as well. It it was really, really backwards. It was kind of shocking. It was even hosting a trade show there.
00:19:47:12 - 00:19:59:00
Rob Napoli
But man, it takes all types of times. You know, that's the video, I think, to have traveling and going out on the road to be where your customers are is it's those stories. It's those experiences that are.
00:19:59:05 - 00:20:00:04
Wink Jones
Yeah.
00:20:00:06 - 00:20:17:23
Rob Napoli
So memorable and create just it creates that those bonds, it creates those relationships. And sometimes it's going through a little bit of adversity on the road at a trade show, showing up and things aren't where it's supposed to be doing this or doing that, that. Yeah, usually it makes the trade show kind of something special. You know, it does.
00:20:17:23 - 00:20:35:13
Wink Jones
You know, our trade show team is actually, you know, we've been through a lot together, and, they're pretty tight now because of that. And I, you know, those people that I've done the trade shows with tend you tend to form bonds when you go through hardships like that. Because the other thing is about it is like trade shows are really hard because they just never go perfectly.
00:20:35:13 - 00:20:51:07
Wink Jones
Something's always going wrong, whether it's, you know, software or something wrong with the show or too many people or whatever. And so you're always scrambling to like to fix stuff together and just that, that like cooperative battle. I think, just generates, a lot of value.
00:20:51:09 - 00:21:17:11
Rob Napoli
Yeah, I agree, and I love that. I mean, we've got a few, few more stories myself. I mean, this just this year alone, I've taken, I think, I have two more flights in December, which will put me on my total of 42 for the year across the US and Europe. So I got a few it's been a battle on some of those and even so like recording this podcast, there's a couple of podcasts that I recorded and I, forgot to make sure that the batteries recharged.
00:21:17:16 - 00:21:21:06
Rob Napoli
And so I went through a whole recording before I realized that we didn't do anything.
00:21:21:12 - 00:21:22:20
Wink Jones
Oh, no. Oh, man.
00:21:22:21 - 00:21:29:07
Rob Napoli
That the challenges of, you know, doing things and sometimes you just forget little things like batteries.
00:21:29:07 - 00:21:48:07
Wink Jones
But yeah, I love it. Well, I'll tell you, my probably my favorite place that I travel down the last few years has been Israel. We so Market Man was founded in Israel before they moved to the US and opened, market here. So but we still have a team in Israel.
00:21:48:09 - 00:22:12:07
Wink Jones
And up until last October, I had been traveling there about every six months. And, first time I went you know, really didn't know what to expect. And, I've got to go spend half a day in Jerusalem and see the Old City. And it's just, again, it was, so mind blowing, and I traveled a fair bit, but I didn't, expect what I experienced there was from one, you know, the country itself is incredible clean and felt very safe.
00:22:12:07 - 00:22:33:14
Wink Jones
And Jerusalem's 4000 year old city, that's like, still living and operating. And, just to have, the opportunity to work with an international team that, you know, literally outside of the world, has been so cool and obviously, you know, the events of the last year, but, for us, especially heartbreaking and devastating to see kind of what's happened in the country there.
00:22:33:16 - 00:22:40:03
Wink Jones
It's just given me a really cool and really different perspective on, on everything that's happening.
00:22:40:05 - 00:22:55:14
Rob Napoli
Yeah. I think that, you know, travel when you're traveling and to experience cultures, it really gives you perspective on things. And also as you look at and take kind of those experiences into the way that you run a business and the way that you develop product and the way that you create experiences. For the end customer in mind.
00:22:55:14 - 00:23:09:08
Rob Napoli
I'll take you to the fact, because you can learn so much from getting to travel and getting to experience other cultures, and how to really tie that into all the things that you're building. Right? Yeah, I love it.
00:23:09:10 - 00:23:10:13
Wink Jones
Yeah.
00:23:10:15 - 00:23:34:03
Rob Napoli
What is as we look at hospitality tech and we look at, you know, we're recording this in Q4 heading into end of year and looking at a 2025, what do you think are some of the major trends that we should be paying attention to are that maybe people aren't paying attention to as it relates to hospitality, tech and restaurant tech and food tech going into 2025, and what are maybe some things that you think are really going to surprise some folks as we look at next year?
00:23:34:05 - 00:23:53:20
Wink Jones
Yeah. I mean, I think, there's a few things in general, vertical SAS has been in a very tough 24 month cycle. I think we've, we've experienced as a, as a whole, not just Meal Ticket, but I think, you know, SAS, like SAS companies in general have experienced a bit of a recession. Yeah.
00:23:53:22 - 00:24:12:09
Wink Jones
I think budgets have tightened, from our buyers, whether they're restaurants, distributors or even outside of this vertical. And I don't think that most people, when they're looking at the macro economy, realize that, that even though this is obviously a tiny piece of the economy, but like from technology standpoint, a lot of us are employed in this vertical.
00:24:12:09 - 00:24:35:06
Wink Jones
So I and I, I believe that feels like it's coming back now. You know, budgets are loosening up a bit. Everybody's been through their tightening cycle. And now, you know, 25 looks to be a bit more promising. I think more specifically when you look at restaurant tech and through tech, like restaurants are having a tough year. And, I think there's more openings sorry more closings than openings this year.
00:24:35:06 - 00:24:53:13
Wink Jones
I think we're projected to have more closings and openings next year as well. And you just think about the impact to spending in this vertical that that's going to have. I mean, it's going to be holistic, right? I mean, everybody that sells into this, you know, whether it's food producers or, or software providers or the searchers, we're going to feel it.
00:24:53:15 - 00:25:20:17
Wink Jones
To me, that speaks to the need to be even more, conscious of providing value and ROI in what we sell. And we have seen in past cycles where, that, that value prop rings true when you're talking to a restaurant owner that needs to be efficient to, to save money, but also not, you know, not cut things that are helping them run their business efficiently.
00:25:20:17 - 00:25:39:04
Wink Jones
Right? So when we think about that, it's all about the value prop of the product, right? We have to make sure that what we're providing isn't just a nice to have. And, that it actually is saving the money and helping them stay in business and run the business effectively, efficiently. And I think if you're not in that position, it's going to be really hard over the next 18 months.
00:25:39:06 - 00:26:04:13
Rob Napoli
Yeah, I think that's really insightful. And it's something that we've seen across all the hospitality verticals as a whole. And I think as we go through these different cycles, you know, a restaurant or a hotel are using anywhere from 5 to 10 different technologies to run their business, sometimes even more, which is great, but at the same point going through and when you have tighter budgets, it's what is necessary versus what is accessory.
00:26:04:13 - 00:26:22:23
Rob Napoli
So making sure that you have the right technology, the right things, whether that's automation, whether that's, the right POS, the right inventory, the right things, and that they have the right integrations to really do the things you need to do. So you're not having all these different things that we're building on top of each other is like, how do I make it one person better?
00:26:22:23 - 00:27:01:23
Rob Napoli
Each technology that's kind of removed itself from the industry and looking at more holistic service providers and holistic technology is going to give you good insights and the things that you need to do your job well versus just maybe do the job a little better. So I think that's really impactful. And it's going to be interesting in 25 to see how that how things continue to evolve and how technology continues to evolve and play a role in this space, while also still keeping the human element of going into restaurants, sitting down, enjoying a meal and having a great experience with, you know, your server, the cook, the bartender, whoever you're interacting with long that process?
00:27:02:00 - 00:27:20:23
Wink Jones
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that's why, the role of AI is such a, important conversation right now. And, yeah, you know, you look at the many ways in which we think AI is going to have an impact on every industry. And, I think this industry specifically is going to be very sensitive to how that's use.
00:27:21:02 - 00:27:36:22
Wink Jones
You know, I don't you know, I think everyone sit at a bar and be served by a robot. Yeah. You know, I don't know, over there. But, to the extent that you can use AI and the software that powers your humans, I think there's a lot of desire for that. I think it makes humans more, more efficient.
00:27:36:24 - 00:27:44:18
Wink Jones
Take some of that, you know, wrote, you know, boring work off the table for them and allows them to do best what they do, which is interact with people.
00:27:44:20 - 00:27:53:12
Rob Napoli
Absolutely. You know, that's that. And I think there's so many companies now they about this that there's so many companies talking about AI and it's being used as a buzzword. Everybody's doing stuff.
00:27:53:14 - 00:27:54:04
Wink Jones
Yeah.
00:27:54:06 - 00:28:08:09
Rob Napoli
But people aren't really doing anything with the AI. It's the chat bot, it's this or that. But utilizing AI the right way is going to be impactful and could be a real challenge and something it's be interesting to see how that plays an effect. And obviously you have to share too much about. Are you guys looking at AI?
00:28:08:09 - 00:28:14:01
Rob Napoli
Is there some things that you're looking at hopefully really seeing from an AI perspective across Market Man, or we'll take it in the umbrella portfolio?
00:28:14:03 - 00:28:37:17
Wink Jones
Yeah, definitely. We I mean, I'd like to say in a cheeky way that we've been using AI since AI was cool. We, I mean, really like, in our, in our data management, we've been using some machine learning, in the, the do being massaging, you know, general digestion of data for 5 or 6 years now.
00:28:37:19 - 00:28:55:11
Wink Jones
And that's not, you know, that wasn't using it ML unnecessarily, but it was definitely using it's kind of the best in class. ML practices at that time. So, you know, I think about we think about AI now in a company in two different ways, really. It's like, you know, how do we use it in our operations to be more efficient?
00:28:55:13 - 00:29:17:08
Wink Jones
And then how do we use it in our product, right, to get efficiency for our customers? There are I think it's easier to, frankly, to use, AI in our operations because there's so many tools out there. The hard part about that is, is picking which tools are actually value add for their cost, because the cost is pretty high right now.
00:29:17:10 - 00:29:38:23
Wink Jones
Like Salesforce is launching, you know, a dozen new AI products and they're super expensive. And, you know, we're evaluating a lot of them and trying to decide, you know, which ones do we actually want to put to use here. But there's some really like no brainer use cases for AI when you're talking about operations. And we'll continue to explore those and I'm sure the products will continue to do better when we think about implementing it into our products.
00:29:39:00 - 00:30:01:09
Wink Jones
It's like with the amount of data that we have, it's just, it's such a good use case for AI. So managing data, discerning data, finding, you know, uncovering insights in data is a great AI use case. The use cases that we shy away from are anytime I asked to make a calculation or, you know, make a very specific recommendation.
00:30:01:09 - 00:30:21:13
Wink Jones
Like, sometimes, you know, the hallucinations are enough to turn off your user to not be able to want to use it again. But things like, for us, you know, we in fact, we've launched, soft launch, the recipe building, AI product within our Market Man product that's in use now. It's in beta. It's not like it's not fully live or rolled out yet, but we'll be announcing that soon.
00:30:21:15 - 00:30:42:19
Wink Jones
Like I said, we use data. We use AI on our data management for our Meal Ticket customers or for our data sharing, programs. And yeah, there's a dozen other use cases that we're evaluating now that, that we know will come into play over the next 12 to 18 months. And we just, we believe, firmly that AI is real.
00:30:42:21 - 00:30:55:00
Wink Jones
And, any company not using it in their product, in their operations is going to be left behind in the next 24 months. So, like, we're, we are we're bought in, now, just a matter of discerning what's going to be useful and what's fluff.
00:30:55:02 - 00:31:13:12
Rob Napoli
Yeah. We're in a similar boat with all the amount of data that we process on a regular basis. And how do we leverage it? How do we leverage AI and ML the right way to continue to improve efficiency without, you know, causing chaos, right. Yeah. And what's the right tools and what's the right use cases for AI.
00:31:13:12 - 00:31:30:02
Rob Napoli
So it's, it's cool to see that others in the industry, I've talked to a lot of people about this and it's going to be really interesting to see how different companies leverage it and who's actually going to be leveraging it for the right kind of use cases in the right way. That actually is really impactful versus who's leveraging it to look cool.
00:31:30:02 - 00:31:48:13
Rob Napoli
And I think that there's that's going to the cream is going to rise to the top, I think in 2025 is AI continues to establish itself and we understand what those use cases are. It's going to be an interesting, very interesting year around the product development, I think next year for a lot of companies. So it’s cool to see what y'all are doing. And building out with that.
00:31:48:15 - 00:31:49:22
Wink Jones
Definitely.
00:31:49:24 - 00:32:09:15
Rob Napoli
As we kind of close out here, I always like, you know, having you being part of the founding team and then growing as a CEO. What advice do you have for, you know, future entrepreneurs or those that are looking, you know, listening out here that are a part of this industry but are looking at potentially becoming an entrepreneur either in this industry or industry adjacent.
00:32:09:15 - 00:32:20:23
Rob Napoli
What are some of those key lessons or key learnings from you as an founding team to CEO would share for those, out there listening?
00:32:21:18 - 00:32:44:19
Wink Jones
I used to take a lot of meetings with, with, starting, you know, early entrepreneurs and would ask the similar question, and I, you know, one of my one of the first things I say is don't underestimate how hard it is. Doing a pure startup is really, really hard. There's a lot of serendipity that comes into play to your success.
00:32:44:21 - 00:33:02:22
Wink Jones
And for us, we got really lucky a few times being in the right place at the right time. And it worked out and it kind of move this forward to the right, on the right trajectory. That's why I spent so much time on the road and in person with people, because you have to put yourself in those positions to be able to take advantage of those opportunities.
00:33:02:24 - 00:33:41:06
Wink Jones
So I think you I so yeah, like in general, you can't underestimate the amount of work. And that goes into the amount of serendipity that is responsible for success. I, you know, I don't think I'm particularly special that way, that I just was willing to work really hard. And, and we got lucky, I think in, you know, on the plus side, having the ability to have a say in my own future and build the company that, that I wanted to build, has been a tremendous experience and, you know, an amazing learning.
00:33:41:08 - 00:34:01:07
Wink Jones
And it has changed so much. You know, I've been along the way, like we did running a company of 200 people is way, way, way different than running a company and four people that. So it's 20, 50 and 75. And how like every, every step change represents a dramatic change in the business looks like and what it's like to run that company.
00:34:01:07 - 00:34:20:10
Wink Jones
And so I I wasn't expecting that, but I wasn't expecting how different and challenging I'd be to run a company the size versus when we first, you know, paired up with, with private equity. We were only 25 people like that change from there forward has been dramatic and again, like really interesting and different. So yeah.
00:34:20:10 - 00:34:43:20
Wink Jones
And then I think the last thing is, that and this is the advice I give to all early stage one partners is like, just be careful about, taking on financing. And you're married to your investors. And whether it's seed investors or angel or, or private equity or VC or whatever, like you know what you're giving up by raising money, right?
00:34:43:20 - 00:35:14:03
Wink Jones
And make sure you're ready to do that when you do it. And make sure you understand the long term implications of raising money at a certain valuation early on, and what that means for your likely ownership ten years from now. Because, I don't think anybody does the math for you at that early to show you, like, what happens to your ownership after you raise, you know, a few million dollars that broke, and it's like it's very tactical to say, but, like, you do a lot of work and, and I've seen people make really big mistakes with their cap table early on that just kill them, later on.
00:35:14:04 - 00:35:30:00
Wink Jones
So. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've absolutely loved the journey. I really love the people I work with. And I think that's the other thing about being in my position is that I get I have the ability to choose the people I work with and to really love my team. And, not everybody is do that.
00:35:30:00 - 00:35:32:03
Wink Jones
So I feel extremely fortunate for that.
00:35:32:05 - 00:36:02:09
Rob Napoli
Yeah. Has a lot of really cool takeaways there. I mean, one, I love that we bring about luck, right. Serendipitous of luck. And I think, you know, there's the old saying, you know luck is when opportunity means, you know, preparation. We all need a little luck in life. And sometimes it's about the right time, right place. And, you know, the Omniboost story is definitely one of those as well, because our founders started in the company, different industry was that a golf course and fell into a hospitality industry, started an e-commerce company and just fell into this because of somebody that he met on a golf course.
00:36:02:11 - 00:36:18:16
Rob Napoli
And that's serendipitous. That's a little bit of luck, right? But that's part of entrepreneurship. And so I think that's a really cool one. And then, you know, the thing you talk about taking on financing, there's a lot of chatter going on about that in the hospitality space right now. Those that are venture backed or funded versus bootstrapped and all that.
00:36:18:16 - 00:36:35:04
Rob Napoli
I think all of it's successful, right? If you're going to grow a company and scale it, there's success in that. And that's a challenge itself. But I love that you share that kind of insight of understand what that means, because it's really easy to get lost in the here and now, and that the full, the full picture says a really great takeaways.
00:36:35:06 - 00:36:52:19
Rob Napoli
And I appreciate you sharing those those insights. It's been a lot of fun to get to talk with you and see how your journeys progressed and hopefully continue to see what Meal Ticket. And then, you know, our relationship with Market Man continues to be, especially the team that we've worked with. Connor and Blakeslee and Eran and all of them has been just amazing.
00:36:52:19 - 00:37:14:10
Rob Napoli
It's been a lot of fun to work with them. You know, Connor and I have had a few, pints, at trade shows together, so it's been great, to get to meet the team. So I, I do think you've got a great team on your hands and definitely wanted to highlight them is it's been a fun partnership to, to build the last, 3 to 4 months as we've gotten started and looking forward to what we can do in 2025.
00:37:14:10 - 00:37:24:19
Rob Napoli
So I appreciate you taking the time and sharing these insights. And sit down having a chat with us. How can our listeners find you, learn more, get involved if they want to connect more with you or Meal Ticket.
00:37:24:21 - 00:37:37:18
Wink Jones
Meal ticket.com. I'm on LinkedIn. I already post on Twitter the other things very often, so, I'm definitely you can reach me on LinkedIn or write me up on meal ticket it easily. Please, please reach out. I'd love to talk to people about business.
00:37:37:20 - 00:37:56:13
Rob Napoli
Absolutely. I'll make sure to link your LinkedIn profile as well as the website in the show notes all got it is click on the show notes. You'll have the link right there to, to get in touch. Wink Appreciate you, my friend. And we'll definitely be in touch soon. And for those out there listening, as always, thank you so much for being a listener of the Hospitable podcast.
00:37:56:13 - 00:38:10:08
Rob Napoli
Make sure to be a tier one. Make sure you like, subscribe, rate, review, do all those things to help the show out. And if there's guests that want to come on or there's guests that you would like to see or topics you'd like us to explore, please let us know. And until next episode, be well.