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What if you could get more of what you want in life? But not through pushing, forcing, or pressure.
You can.
When it comes to money, time, and energy, no one’s gonna turn away more.
And Kate Northrup, Bestselling Author of Money: A Love Story and Do Less and host of Plenty, is here to help you expand your capacity to receive all of the best.
As a Money Empowerment OG who’s been at it for nearly 2 decades, Kate’s the abundance-oriented best friend you may not even know you’ve always needed.
Pull up a chair every week with top thought leaders, luminaries, and adventurers to learn how to have more abundance with ease.
So I know these kind of layers of my own onion. There's the family layer. There's the the cultural layer. There's the societal layer of what it means to be a woman right now. There's all of these layers that we can start to peel back and understand I have those layers and so does that person.
Amanda Goetz:Hello.
Kate Northrup:Today, my guest is Amanda Getz. Her brand new book, Toxic Grit is out today. She's been featured by entrepreneur, business insider, Yahoo Finance, Forbes, and more. And she reaches over a 150,000 people worldwide with her best tips on pursuing success without losing your sanity. Amanda used to be or she sold a company called House of Wise.
Kate Northrup:She was a founder and prior to that, she was a CMO. She worked at The Knot and other incredible brands. She is a really smart marketer. She is a single mom of three. She's an incredible athlete.
Kate Northrup:She is fun. She is smart. And today, we're talking about how to heal from hustle culture without losing your edge, without losing your ambition. I think so often, these conversations around, making money in softer ways or more flow, more ease, less hustle can leave a taste in our mouths like, but does that mean I have to give up my ambition? Does that mean I have to give up my edge?
Kate Northrup:And the answer as you'll hear in this conversation is absolutely not. But there are ways to do it where you can of course work smarter, not harder, and get what you want without sacrificing the things that matter. As you know, if you've read my book, Do Less, this is a conversation that is near and dear to my heart, and I'm so excited for you to meet Amanda. Welcome to Plenty. I'm your host Kate Northrup and together we are going on a journey to help you have an incredible relationship with money, time, and energy and to have abundance on every possible level.
Kate Northrup:Every week, we're gonna dive in with experts and insights to help you unlock a life of plenty. Let's go fill our cups. Please note that the opinions and perspectives of the guests on the Plenty podcast are not necessarily reflective of the opinions and perspectives of Kate Northrop or anyone who works within the Kate Northrop brand.
Amanda Goetz:Welcome. Thank you for having me.
Kate Northrup:This is amazing.
Amanda Goetz:For being
Kate Northrup:here, Amanda. I love this. You know, I don't know if you know this, but somehow, like, I became aware of you. I literally have no idea how I started following you on Instagram, but it was like when I moved to Miami in 2021, you Same. Okay, you moved to Miami in 2021.
Amanda Goetz:Yeah. Oh, what month? August. Okay. Yeah, right before school started.
Amanda Goetz:Okay. And got down here, got settled, got the kids ready. Got at it. Yeah. And I feel like everybody that was moving here at that time was looking for other people who were moving here, was
Kate Northrup:an interesting time. Yeah, a lot of us came at that time. So, yeah. And at the time, you were doing your business. Well, growing your not doing.
Kate Northrup:Growing your business. House Wise. Many things. And I was so of course, like, I didn't know you. You and I have only met in person quite recently.
Kate Northrup:So from what you were doing online, was like, damn. This girl has a lot of capacity. I was like, with the kids and the business, and she's exercising. And she's so hot. I was like, wow.
Kate Northrup:So my first question Hilarious. Isn't that funny?
Amanda Goetz:I'm to cry laughing this So whole podcast, I know
Kate Northrup:I'm curious. Now it is whatever, like four years later, four years later, you as of today have published your first book, Toxic Grit, and I would love to know that version of you that I came across on the internet in probably 2021.
Amanda Goetz:What would you tell her now? So in 2021, just to kind of put it
Kate Northrup:into great. Context Yeah, given that I knew this much about you, like tiny tiny sliver.
Amanda Goetz:So I filed for divorce in 2018. I had just had my third baby, so I had three kids under the age of four. Divorce took about two and a half, three So 2020, like I was one of those people that woke up 01/01/2020 and I was like, this is my year, I'm gonna get my life back, I'm not gonna be the woman going through a divorce. And at that time, I was leading marketing at the Knotz, so I had a team of 50 people. I felt like I was at the height of my career, and then everything kind of came crashing down.
Amanda Goetz:And when I started to feel like I was rebuilding in 2020, the world felt like it was And so fast forward to 2021, that was the first moment of freedom that I experienced in years. I got married when I was engaged at 19. Married at I 20 read
Kate Northrup:that in your book, and I was like, oh wow, that's young.
Amanda Goetz:Yeah. How old is your oldest now? 11. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:So can you imagine in eight years?
Amanda Goetz:I can't. What? I can't.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. So
Amanda Goetz:But you know They've they've signed, like, invisible contracts with me that they're not getting married till 05:30. Till 02:30.
Kate Northrup:Okay. Great.
Amanda Goetz:I was like, at least until you made a conscious choice of who you are and what you want. But that moment, 2021, was my ability to spread my wings and see who the fuck I was. And part of that was through House of Wise, and it's funny because looking back what I would tell her is that was a stepping stone, not the end, but when you're building a business, that feels like everything. Yep. And and when we grew really fast, but we also raised VC capital, so we had to keep growing really fast, and then we couldn't sustain it, and so then we sold.
Amanda Goetz:And at that time I had another just horrible crash again because I was like, oh my entire identity is wrapped up in this business. It's like, this is who I am. I'm a founder. And then when that came crashing down I was like, well I don't know who I am again. So it was a lot of just and I talk about this a lot in the book of the cycles of life, and that's actually part of it is just continuing to re meet yourself and the different parts of yourself.
Amanda Goetz:And I kept trying to merge them all and say, okay, I'm a founder. It's like, okay, that was one part of me, but I put everything into that basket. Yeah. So now I think you're meeting me now at this time where I have neatly placed these roles in their own compartments so that I can see that I'm not all just one thing. I'm not all mom, I'm not all partner because I'm now getting married again.
Amanda Goetz:I'm not all founder. I'm all of these things but in their own containers. So you talk about these 10 characters that we have, which I love that concept. I've been a long time in therapy with internal family systems therapy parts work, so huge fan. Also, I have a theater background, so I'm like, yes.
Amanda Goetz:Right. Exactly.
Kate Northrup:We are all playing our roles. We are. Yeah. It's a very helpful Our mutual friend Liz, which is how I met you, I interviewed her once, and she talked about and it was when we we had like really young kids, and she was doing her business, learn to make a product, and she talked about how the way she was making everything work was to know that she could be an A in one area, but it was totally fine to be a B plus or even a C in other areas and not have this ridiculous idea that we're gonna be all in with all of our roles at the same time. So I love your concept to to give us permission to like you don't have to be like the straight A student in all of them.
Kate Northrup:You don't have to be the all star athlete and the magna cum laude or summa, whatever. I don't remember which one which. It really doesn't matter, but like and the top founder and the whatever. But I am curious, so you mentioned just now compartmentalization, and I wanna know, is there an example or a time right in your life right now as you're, you know, the truth is this episode comes out on pub day, but we're recording it obviously far in advance. So you are getting ready.
Kate Northrup:So you're in preparation phase for launching How a are some of those roles that you play informing each other and actually helping to bolster one another right now?
Amanda Goetz:So two things. One, the idea that you can't have all the characters in the spotlight. Like imagine watching a show and all main characters were constantly trying to progress forward at the same time, right? Chaotic. It's chaotic.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. And ultimately actually boring. When I think about watching a show like that, if all 10 were all there all at the same time, was boring and not enough depth.
Amanda Goetz:And the flip side of that, which is what I fear happens to many women, is one or two characters takes over the entire plot line. Mhmm. That's also boring. Yeah. You're right.
Amanda Goetz:Because you need those other characters to infuse the levity Yeah. And the fun. So we have that cast of characters inside of ourselves. And for me, gearing up for a season where I know that my work character or I call it the CEO character, but the person that really the version of me that cares about achievement and my goals and financial success. So funny because she doesn't play well with kids.
Amanda Goetz:Right? Like when I'm in work mode and my kids try to come in, I realize, and that was a big part of separating these things. Because whenever I tried to merge the two I'm snapping at them, I'm not foking. But gearing up for a time in my life, it's about awareness of which character is going to take some more spotlight. The second part is creating boundaries.
Amanda Goetz:Where are you allowing other characters to come in? And then communicating with the people around you how long is this going to be a Yes, totally. And then having that checkpoint. So I know December 1 when I'm through, you know, I go on the book tour, December 1 I have a checkpoint and I'm going to reprioritize and for the next four weeks, kids, family is everything. We're going on a big trip, we're so excited.
Amanda Goetz:And they all know that. And they also are in the fold because I've communicated to them why this is important for me. And I say like the definition of toxic grit is hustle without intention. We created these kind of binary pendulums I think for women that are really exhausting. Right?
Amanda Goetz:Like there was the you and I were just talking about like kind of the girl boss era, right, where it was like, okay, the the path to being an inspiring woman is to build companies and break glass ceilings, etcetera, lean in. Well, a lot of women burnt out, so then we swung the pendulum over here and it's like, well no, be completely in your feminine, be a trad wife, be this. For most people
Kate Northrup:But also grow a killer following while you're
Amanda Goetz:But also may like, look amazing and make the perfect stuff, like, sourdough whatever. But most of us live in the middle of and so how do we stop creating these, like, binary pendulum swings? It's hustle with intention. Why is this important to you? Why does this build towards the next goal?
Amanda Goetz:And communicate that to people so that they're a part of that decision, not just, oh, well society is telling me to go do this thing so I go do it. How old is your youngest? Seven.
Kate Northrup:So you have a seven, a what, and an 11?
Amanda Goetz:Seven, nine, 11.
Kate Northrup:Seven, nine, okay. I have a seven, nine. I just don't have the 11 year old. So I'm thinking about, as you say this, so my mom came out with her first book when I was 11.
Amanda Goetz:Oh my gosh.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. And it was You know, was so proud of her, but I was also 11, and I was like, why do you work all the time? And I just want to say, like, I love the way you're communicating with your children, I'm assuming with your fiance as Like, okay, this is gonna be all in for this period of time, and then there's a date at which we will reorganize, and you'll get more of me back for this role. I think that's also really helpful as a business owner because when we publish books, it can be this open ended loop of forever of like now I'm supposed to be hustling to sell this thing for the rest of my life, and it can feel this pressure of like, oh, it did well in the first week, so now I have to even Like do I was texting a girlfriend of mine, and she was like, I'm feeling all She became a bestseller, and she was like, I'm feeling all this pressure. Now everyone's telling me I have to keep at it and do more and do more, and I was like, girl, that thing's gonna keep selling itself.
Kate Northrup:Like, just lie down. So I love that you have a stop date. That's so smart. How did you decide what the date was? Not stop like you're not gonna sell your book anymore.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. But I understand. Like, the the season will then shift.
Amanda Goetz:So I have a story and then I'll answer that So the story, when I was a single mom with three young kids, I was leading marketing for a big team, and I had to leave every day at 4PM. Because my kids, you know, when they're that little, they go to bed at like 06:30.
Kate Northrup:Totally, you have no time after school. No. Daycare or whatever.
Amanda Goetz:So I needed to get home, relieve the nanny so that I could do bath and get them fed, and then then it's like seven and everybody's asleep. So I knew that if I needed to look at emails I could do that at 07:30 whatever. At my performance review I remember talking to someone, it was not my direct boss but somebody else, and they were like well you're hitting all your goals, but you leave at four every day. And I was like, yeah? Well just what would happen if you stayed till six?
Amanda Goetz:Think about how much more you would do. And it's this elusive enough that we're constantly facing that, yeah, my capacity does not equal my my capability and what I actually want to do. Capacity does not equal like alignment in what you're going for at the macro level. So for me I know that I I do wanna write books and this is a big part of that. It's a big journey into this next step.
Amanda Goetz:And I want to have a great relationship and I want to be a present mom. And so figuring out what those I call it a spin cycle because when you use a washing machine like the spin cycle alleviates all the heaviness. Mhmm. What does a spin cycle look for you to recheck in with yourself to say, okay. I just pushed for a little bit with this character.
Amanda Goetz:Whether that's your mom character or caregiver character or your explorer character, you've been traveling a lot, run a spin cycle. You've been pushing really hard with one character. Allow yourself to kind of alleviate the intensity from that character, good or bad, like whatever it is, and say what what does the next season look like? And for some people during that spin cycle they may say I'm ready to keep going. Yeah.
Amanda Goetz:And so for me December is a time for me to check-in, say wow is this filling me up? Is this giving me energy? To what extent? And also what am I sacrificing to get that? So I think it's really important to have check ins with yourself to say, is this still in alignment?
Amanda Goetz:And to give yourself permission to let another character come in and say, I'm good right
Kate Northrup:Or to go for a second season. Yeah. Right? If that's appropriate. And I think it's the we have such a tendency to just keep going without ever pulling our head up.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. To look around and be like, oh wait, let me reassess. So I think that's so smart. I would imagine, you know, you talked about boundary setting, you know, you talked about this person at your performance review being like, imagine what would happen if you stayed until six, which by the way, their comment was completely non data backed. Because actually what we see is that there is a completely diminishing rate of return if you stay longer and sit at your computers.
Kate Northrup:There is not at all an increase in productivity. It actually decreases. That's, and probably those extra two hours would have started eating away at your results for the previous hours as well. That's another conversation for another day. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:But I would imagine along the way, you know, you're a successful woman, you are good looking, you are articulate, right? You are you are, you know, and you have been through a lot, and I know that, and I only know a small, very small percentage. However, I would imagine that people project on you and get annoyed when you say no or set a boundary or whatever, whether it's around a work thing, whether it's a personal thing, whether it's the moms at drop off, whether it's your family, I don't really know you, but I'm imagining this happens.
Amanda Goetz:Check, check, check.
Kate Northrup:And I know that the avoidance of the discomfort of those projections and people feeling some kind of way about the way we've chosen to live their lives and us not being the way they expect us or not being the way that's comfortable for them, the avoidance of that discomfort keeps so many women from going after what they want and keeps them playing a role that ultimately doesn't even belong in their cast of characters, like it's not even them to begin with. How do you deal with projection, with people being disappointed in you, random strangers on the internet, your mother, you know, whoever.
Amanda Goetz:All of that, yeah. So the first thing, I've done a ton of work, right? So doing a lot of the internal work to know what script of your movie was given to you versus written by you, right? And so I'm very aware of what stuff, what is my stuff, what is my programming that was given to me because of my upbringing. I grew up in a first generation college, like I was the first person to go to college in my family, I grew up very poor, and so there's a lot of programming that was handed to me of like, oh wealthy people mean x, And so I know these kind of layers of my own onion.
Amanda Goetz:There's the family layer, there's the the cultural layer, there's the societal layer of what it means to be a woman right now. There's all of these layers that we can start to peel back and understand I have those layers and so does that person.
Kate Northrup:So
Amanda Goetz:I can look at that and hold that that's not actually mine and put a little bubble around myself and say that's their layers that they're working through. And that's not for me to take on. The second piece of that is, and I know we were talking about this a little bit, I've now met with a hypnotherapist, and I did this like crazy five hour session realizing how early we make decisions about ourselves. Like from the time one of my memories that I was like, how do I have this memory? Was when I was in the hospital as a baby at a subconscious level, and I'm sure people are gonna be like, this sounds so woo woo.
Kate Northrup:Not my people.
Amanda Goetz:I had a vision because my mom, I was in emergency C section and then she ended up getting sepsis and almost died, and I didn't see my mom for seven days. I never connected that with anything of my adult life. In this hypnotherapy session I saw myself in the little room with all the nurses walking around and I felt alone. And I was like, Oh, I made decision then that I need to make sure that people didn't leave me. Wow.
Amanda Goetz:And so in this session she had me make a different decision. Like it's not my job to be perfect so people will stay. And it's really freeing to realize that when you can go back and kind of make a different decision for yourself, how you operate in a very different reframe because that's not your default decision. I'm scared that if I don't respond to my friend immediately I'm going to lose them as a friend. If I stop looking at that situation that way and say that's not my responsibility, I'm prioritizing this right now, I will get to that in a little bit, and if I lose them as a friend they weren't meant to be in my life and supporting me.
Amanda Goetz:So I think realizing that there are some decisions we made about ourselves that we can choose now as adults to take the different decision.
Kate Northrup:What's so powerful about what you're saying is that according to our subconscious and our psyche and our nervous system, all time is now. Our bodies have no sense of time. And that's why the power of visualization works, right, for Olympic athletes and all this stuff. It also works with this because we actually can rewire ourselves so that that decision literally now was different. Like it's not just, oh, that was a cool exercise, and now I feel better.
Kate Northrup:Like, now you're different. Yeah. Because all time is now according to your psyche, which is what's so powerful about therapies like hypnotherapy. I love that so much. That's incredible.
Amanda Goetz:And so when I feel projection or anything, I can say this is not my job to earn their love or attention. It's not
Kate Northrup:my job. So before we came on today, my team sent a little email with a correction to you, and you had responded very graciously and said, No worries, this is a sign that you guys are focused on the right And I know that one of your topics that you're so good at is around energy management and focusing on the right things to get the result that we're actually after. So how do you help people who are overwhelmed with You and I both know. When you're running a business, there is literally an infinite number of things you could put your attention on. Possibilities for growth, this opportunity, that collaboration.
Kate Northrup:And I hear from people all the time, I'm just overwhelmed. I don't know where to start. Do you help people cut through that quagmire and focus on the right things?
Amanda Goetz:Yeah. So I'll give the most simple answer and then I'll kind of work backwards. So I talk about my to do list, like the number to do list. Every day I look at the different characters that I've placed as important for that day and I say what are two things that I can move forward that would meaningfully develop that character's storyline, plotline, whatever. So for today, for work, I needed to work on a deck that would meaningfully move something forward, and I needed to put together a project plan.
Amanda Goetz:Two meaningful things. Okay. I focused and finished those two things in about an hour and a half. Yeah. Because when you actually know what you're focused on, you remove distractions, you can actually hit flow state pretty quickly.
Amanda Goetz:Right? So I separate parking lot versus priorities. My parking lot's massive. I've got like a 10 story parking lot and it is full at capacity. But every day I look at that parking lot and say, well what's giving me energy?
Amanda Goetz:What what do I feel like is on a level of impact and effort? Where is that falling in the quadrants? And say, well okay, I'll work on this one. And I put that literally on a post it note in front of me. When I get those two things done I get the satisfaction of throwing it the trash can.
Amanda Goetz:But the same thing goes for being a parent, being a partner. If I can do two things well, intentionally well as a parent in the day, if that means I'm going to sit and be super intentional at dinner time, and I'm going to give each kid a thirty minute tuck in like I do like the little rotation, right? If I can do that well but I was shuffling around in the morning, right? Like it's okay I did two things well and that's enough. And I think the word enough keeps coming back over and over again of you've said that these were the priorities for today, that's as much as you can do so that you can develop a couple of characters.
Amanda Goetz:And we as highly ambitious women, we think that I have to, like you said, an A plus in everything. Well it's okay if those two things is an a and a c. Like if I can't go get a full workout in and I just go and I'm like, alright, I'm gonna walk on the treadmill for ten minutes and scroll TikTok because that's like what I need right now. Mhmm. Okay.
Amanda Goetz:That's fine. But just figuring out what are the biggest things that will have the most impact, saying that's enough and then moving on to the next role that you play. That's to me when I coach people and talk to people, I'll look at their day and their context switching like a crazy person, just like they're doing emails and then they jump to a little bit of a project, then they jump over here. Studies have shown that context switching is horrible.
Kate Northrup:I know, but we're so addicted
Amanda Goetz:to We're so addicted to it. So it's people are looking for this complex answer, but the the answer is very simple. Focus and finish. If I could be really great during our conversation and then shut off work mode and then go straight to dinner with friends
Kate Northrup:Yeah.
Amanda Goetz:They get all of me as a friend and you get all of me in this conversation. But if I was multitasking and like trying to text them before it's like that doesn't work. You have to give yourself the space to be fully present, and I think this is where guilt comes from. Trying to be multiple versions of ourselves at one time. Like I said, my work mode and mom mode and partner mode, none of those really mesh well together.
Amanda Goetz:If I want to be intimate or feel sensual, I can't see my kids. Right. And I can't see emails. And so allowing myself to say what does compartmentalization look like? How can I focus and finish and give my all to this version of myself?
Amanda Goetz:Is actually the way that I can move things forward more effectively.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. Okay, so we're having a really great left brain conversation right now, which I, wait, yep, which I so appreciate because I live for the logistics of, I'm not, I will say I'm not naturally actually that good at this sort of thing that you're talking about, even though I did write a book about it. I guess I've had to learn the hard way. I'm actually I'm gonna ask you another question, but wait. Before we do that, I have one more question about the logistics.
Kate Northrup:In the parking lot, the 10 story garage, every day when you're pulling out your to do list, which I love, Obviously, you're not going through every car on all 10 stories. So higher level, like, is do you have some kind of system or way that you're holding well, so it's the characters. Right? So you kinda know the priorities for the season or whatever, for the week, for the month, like, is it intuitive? How do you how do you pull out those two things?
Amanda Goetz:Yeah. There's a whole chapter on this. Right. But at a highest level, you first have to know what's what are you moving towards? What's your why?
Amanda Goetz:Like, where are you going in this season? So like right now, okay, book tour is the season. Yeah. Right? So now I can prioritize certain things over other things.
Amanda Goetz:Like and I've communicated that to my friends. I won't see you till December. See you later. Right? Like and they know that, and they're there to support me because I've communicated that.
Amanda Goetz:Now when you look every week at your parking lot, you have to understand and I I worked with tons of engineers, so I work in two week sprints. Right? It's like what are what is the big project I'm focused on for two weeks at a time? And usually at work you can start to say like, okay, if I actually did let's take a very simple example. Say you wanted to relaunch your website.
Amanda Goetz:What I would do with somebody if I was coaching them, I'd say we're gonna Kit Kat this. We're gonna break it down. Okay? You want a new website. Well that means you have to write copy for that website.
Amanda Goetz:Mhmm. You have to maybe take pictures for that website. You need to determine where the buttons are going and maybe that leads to you have to create a new asset. You break it down. So this big thing that was maybe in your parking lot, like new website, actually gets broken down into 10 or so things that you've Kit Katted.
Amanda Goetz:And then you say, well that's my sprint for two weeks. Then I learned What are they Kit Kats? Yeah, so landing page, like know. New Menews your questions,
Kate Northrup:I know. Wait.
Amanda Goetz:So landing page is your sprint for two weeks.
Kate Northrup:Got it.
Amanda Goetz:And then you've Kit Katted it into 10 different parts. I would put those all on Post it notes, and then every day
Kate Northrup:You just take one. Two.
Amanda Goetz:And so imagine, something that feels like, oh, a new website, that's gonna take me months. If you broke it down and you actually focused and finished, you'd have it done in ten days.
Kate Northrup:So are you largely in your work life working on one thing at a time? Yes. I mean, give or take. The one thing right now is book launch. Yep.
Kate Northrup:Right, so it's a big thing. Yeah. But then this one thing has these smaller pieces. And then what about all the other things? Well, obviously, they're contributing, right?
Kate Northrup:Like your social media contributes, your newsletter contributes, so all the rowers are rowing in the same direction
Amanda Goetz:Yeah.
Kate Northrup:As it were.
Amanda Goetz:And so I think about offense versus defense time. Offense is I have the ball, I'm moving it forward, I'm moving towards a goal. Defense is other people need me, I need to be in meetings, I need to be on social, I need to respond to Slack, all of that. I have to separate those two.
Kate Northrup:Mhmm.
Amanda Goetz:Because offense time is deep work time. I gotta create. Yep. I have to think. Defense, I need to respond.
Amanda Goetz:Right? So I make sure that two hours a day are just offense. I am fully focused on the two Post it notes in front of me and I get those things done. And I know you talk a lot about this, being in tune with your body and knowing when you can hit that focused time. I know for me, morning, focus, get that work done, and then twelve to three is my meeting time.
Amanda Goetz:If people need me, that's when I'm and then I have two pockets for email admin time, and then everything else is delegated.
Kate Northrup:And then like the kids come home and that's it.
Amanda Goetz:Yeah. I have to be done with work at three. Yeah. Because kids get out of school and then they have to be taken to everything, and so I have to be done at three, and I also need to make sure I have time for movement in So my yeah, offense versus defense was a big unlock for me to say, I have the parking lot, I'm gonna break those things into little smaller things that are achievable in a one to two hour time block. I focus and finish on those and then I move on to all of the other stuff.
Amanda Goetz:Yep. But that's moving the big thing forward that we tend to look at a to do list and we look at the easiest thing to do, and then you don't ever have meaningful time to move the big project forward. So flip it on its head, do the big project first, and then everything else kind of fits in.
Kate Northrup:Yeah, and it really does, for anyone who's listening feeling like, how does she get it all done before three and move her body and only have meetings from twelve to three and, you know, and and and. Quite frankly, when you devote your best hours of the day to the most important thing, everything else pretty much works out, or you realize it wasn't that important, and it can be canceled, rescheduled, delegated to somebody else, but it becomes obvious because the big thing is the big thing is the big thing, and then it's done, and then you're like, oh, great, so that's done now.
Amanda Goetz:The significance trap is real. Yeah. Is something actually as important as you deem it to be? Right. And I always use the ten ten ten framework, like will this matter in ten minutes?
Amanda Goetz:Will this matter in ten hours? Will this matter in ten days? Like your friend texting you their their crazy date story or whatever, they'll be fine in ten hours. Like, I can respond. Right?
Amanda Goetz:Your kid needing to be picked up from the school because they're sick, that's you you got it. So it's just a significance expectation and and radar to say, is this actually as important as I'm making it? And to your point, like a lot of things there's a lot of cars in my parking lot that are really dusty. Yep. Because I actually realize they're not
Kate Northrup:as important and meaningful to moving everything else forward. Totally. We we used to have a president of our company who kept a little, like, vintage tea kettle on her desk, and when I would give her an idea because I'm like an idea machine.
Amanda Goetz:I've You're a
Kate Northrup:starter. Oh my gosh. And finishing things is literally so hard for me, which is why I married my husband. He is just so good at taking it across the finish line. But she would in meetings with me, she did not tell me this until a year after we were working together.
Amanda Goetz:Yeah, I'm so excited.
Kate Northrup:She would take down my idea, and she would be like, absolutely, and she would write it down and just really meet me where I was, and then she would put it in the tea kettle, the little thing on her desk, and then she would only ever pull it out again if I mentioned it again at another time because I'm the queen of getting all my energy around something new and then getting it going, and then well, I used to be. I've really broken that habit, So But the
Amanda Goetz:world needs starters, and the world
Kate Northrup:needs finishers.
Amanda Goetz:Yes. Like finishers can't create a ton of ideas, and so for me, every quarter I'll look at excuse me, sorry. I'll look at all of the ideas that I've had, and I'll pick one or two and say those are the ones I'm gonna spend my time on, like watching a newsletter or Yeah. A course or whatever it is. You're allowed to have all those ideas.
Amanda Goetz:You just have to a vehicle to put them in. A tea kettle.
Kate Northrup:A tea kettle. Or whatever. Okay. So wanna know a little bit more about your newsletter. It's funny, you know, I've been in this industry for a long time, and in twenty two thousand nine, I started a newsletter.
Kate Northrup:Been writing it ever since. Smiles. It's great. And then everybody somewhere along the way turned to social media, and I was like, I mean not that I wasn't there, but I was like, Hi. Just email us, email us, email us.
Kate Northrup:And then it's so funny because many of my friends in the industry who've been around for a long time are like launching newsletters, which is the greatest idea ever. I completely agree, and I think I've never taken mine seriously enough. So maybe, whatever. Anyway, but I'm curious for you, you know, for people listening, like looking at what's working now, trends, whatever, as you looked at the whole landscape of the coaching world, personal development, authors, thought leaders, you know, whatever, what had you decide you were gonna double down on a newsletter?
Amanda Goetz:First and foremost, was about developing the skill of writing. Oh great. And I I believe in truly loving the process of something, not the outcome. Right? Like if you're gonna start something you have to do it don't just say like, I wanna run a marathon.
Amanda Goetz:It's like no, I want this time to I go learn to love to write. I've always loved writing. I've been a marketer my whole career and I'm always like, I'll write the copy, I'll do that. It's fine, I'll write the emails. And this was my the newsletter came from me wanting to see if a book was in my future.
Kate Northrup:Got it.
Amanda Goetz:Right? If that was maybe the end goal, can I write 800 to a thousand words and sit down and do that? And how did that feel? Did that give me energy? And it did.
Amanda Goetz:I loved it. And so that's when I knew that I wanted to go down the book route. And I'd grown to over a 100,000 followers on Twitter at the time because I love writing, that was the platform that I, back in the day, used. And I got hacked and lost full access. It was horrible.
Amanda Goetz:Woah. Whole other story of like people were these people in Europe were scamming people for money and because I'm like very vulnerable online, it was like people thought it was me and it was so bad. So it was this double edged sort of I knew that I needed to have greater control over my audience and I wanted to love this skill of writing. So that was newsletter opened up everything for me. Now I had been building a personal brand, but obviously on a platform that now I can't swing a cat and get a tweet to go viral.
Amanda Goetz:Like, it's so that's the issue with algorithms and picking and going all in on a platform. Totally. So now I'm like starting over. I'm like, oh, okay, Instagram, I'm there now. That used to just be like my kids eating broccoli, and now it's like, okay, here's all my thoughts.
Amanda Goetz:But you can have more control and agency when you have an email list as you know, and so it's so powerful.
Kate Northrup:I love that. And what are you doing? What are some of your best tips for making your newsletters readable, relevant, and something that people look forward to and open and engage with. Because a lot of people are like, no one reads emails, and I'm like, no, no, no. There are several newsletters or just emails even if the person doesn't call it a newsletter, that I would say I open and read 80% of them, because even if I don't know the person, I have built a relationship with them.
Kate Northrup:Social, Compared which is more like whatever even is happening over there. What are you doing to infuse yours with that energy?
Amanda Goetz:There's a couple of different formats of newsletters. Right? There's the I'm gonna go be kind of a flashlight and shine a light on all these other topics, etcetera. I chose to be more of what I call a porch light. Like I'm going to be with you.
Amanda Goetz:I'm learning with you, and I'm going to share a story of something I learned, and then turn it into a tactical exercise or takeaway for you to say, If this is something you also feel like you're working through, walking through, here are some steps that helped me. And the authenticity of feeling like you are third type of creator, there's porch lights bringing people in, there's flashlights looking at other people, and then there's what do you call it? A boat that looks lighthouse. Yeah. I'm like, what's that word?
Amanda Goetz:I'll get there. I felt like I was playing charades. You know, the thing with It's
Kate Northrup:nautical. Right. There's an anchor.
Amanda Goetz:So a lighthouse, those are the people who you're like, I don't know if I'll ever get there. They're so aspirational. I've chosen the porch light. It's like, come in, let's do this together. I'm not perfect.
Amanda Goetz:I share all of my things, like, all the lessons I'm learning. I don't pretend to know it all, but I'm growing with you. And I think that that has led to it growing the fastest because there's a lot of guru type stuff out there that I think people are starting to have an allergic reaction.
Kate Northrup:Yeah, it's annoying. To
Amanda Goetz:Yeah, it's like there are no 10 simple steps to do anything. So true. There's just not. And so I'm not going to pretend that there are, I'm but gonna give you some frameworks or some new ways to look at it that helped me think about it differently.
Kate Northrup:Yeah, realistic, it's human, but it's also really a smart way of looking at life. Because if we change the way that we're relating to things, our results do shift. And sit around in this industry long enough and you realize no one knows what they're doing anyway, and so why pretend like it on
Amanda Goetz:the internet? No, I know. It's so funny. I mean, you know, you've been in the world the creator world and been around a lot of people. Every time I put somebody on a pedestal, and then I well, I eventually meet that person, and I'm like, oh, they also don't know.
Kate Northrup:Okay, cool. But I think that's just part of our humanity to constantly be like, oh wait, maybe them. Maybe And then you're like, oh no, just once again. However, that doesn't mean we can't be aspirational and learn from people, and be like, do actually seem to really know what you're doing in this one arena, and I really do wanna listen to everything you have to say on that topic. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:I'm like that. I go so deep with someone. Same. And I'm just like, I don't need to take marriage advice from someone who's been divorced 10 times, but in one area, I'm like, I'll learn how to grow my email list from you all day long. Exactly.
Kate Northrup:Okay. So hard left. Hard left.
Amanda Goetz:It's not a card
Kate Northrup:I was gonna go here before, but then I wanted to ask more logistical questions. One of the things so you talked about in your book that you realized either as you were getting divorced or after, I don't know the timeline, that you were bisexual, and one of the things you've talked about a lot, like whatever, a lot, but you are definitely someone who is essentially expressed woman in public. And I would love to hear more about how your relationship with your body, your sexuality, and your sensuality inform, if at all, anything about your business, and if not, you can just be like, they don't.
Amanda Goetz:It's so interesting because I compartmentalize them because that's how I view it. So like I said, I got engaged so young. I was in college, never had and I grew up very religious, Catholic, and so I didn't really and I'm from a very small rural town, so I had no even template of what it looked like to explore your sexuality. Then I find myself in my 30s divorced, running a sexual health and wellness company, and like
Kate Northrup:Which was House of Wise. Yes. Right, and so for folks who don't know, what was the company?
Amanda Goetz:The company was giving women permission to take control of their sleep, sex, stress, and strength through four different product verticals, yeah. And they were originally formulated gummies.
Kate Northrup:They were great. Thank you. You're welcome.
Amanda Goetz:And they worked.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. So
Amanda Goetz:at that time it was, like I said, my identity in House of Wise was really I see.
Kate Northrup:Yes, it was very much part of the brand.
Amanda Goetz:Because I was exploring my sexuality at that time and started to date women and had a girlfriend for a while, and it was interesting because I learned so much about myself through that exploration. And I have to say being learning that you're bisexual later in life after dating men your whole life, and then also choosing and falling in love and marrying a man also gives this is still like a layered thing for me of like taking up space in this conversation because there's a part of it that feels like, am I truly valid in taking up space? But I loved both men and women, and it's it's been a beautiful part of my journey that allowed me to continue to realize that I can break boxes. Yeah. Like if anything, it was a reminder that what was given to me, any of these scripts that were told like, oh, I was an athlete my whole life, I have a very I know you talk a lot in masculine feminine energies, I present very feminine.
Amanda Goetz:I'm a very masculine energy person.
Kate Northrup:Yeah.
Amanda Goetz:And that I think allowing myself to see what that felt like in different relationship dynamics was so freeing.
Kate Northrup:Because
Amanda Goetz:in most heteronormative relationships I suppress my masculine to be in my feminine for my partner. And I think that that's what led me to be with someone who I can be both, I can actually embody both in different times. And it's why I'm so happy with Dan, my person, because allowing myself to explore that part of me led me to find somebody that allowed me to exist in both of those multitudes.
Kate Northrup:That's so beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, and I think that when we have the courage to break out of a box in one area of our life, which you obviously did in your divorce, and then becoming a founder after having a corporate job, and then around sexuality, and then whatever, right? I'm sure there's lots of other examples. It does get, you know, it builds, you're probably aware of this, it builds something called self efficacy where then we can call upon that in completely different contexts.
Kate Northrup:So while it may not be that that one area is directly impacting, it's like that we are who we are in all the different roles, and you're gonna bring those skill sets laterally. For sure.
Amanda Goetz:You can't talk. Right. Allowing one character to express themselves and push boundaries builds that muscle that the other characters have. So now I can push boundaries in my business because I know that any time I've pushed a boundary I grow and expand.
Kate Northrup:Yeah.
Amanda Goetz:So it's just really beautiful when you can allow yourself to do that in one area and watch it happen in the others for sure.
Kate Northrup:This may seem like a very obvious question or I don't know, but I wanna know why did you write this book?
Amanda Goetz:There's a story that I tell in the book that this book has kind of been percolating for years since my divorce. And House of Wise was actually the book in CPG wrapped form. Right? It's giving yourself permission to be in multitudes. And we say that, but how?
Amanda Goetz:It's like how do I have an active sex life and be a present mom and work? It's like how? Tell me how. But so there's the story I tell in the book where I was at work all day, I raced home, let the nanny go, I'm putting the kids in the bathtub, I'm getting the kids ready for bed and I get them down and the two are in their cribs and I'm rocking the baby and breastfeeding the baby and I'm just like sweat dripping down my boobs, like all of it, you know? Because at that point, I'm a single mom.
Amanda Goetz:And I took out my phone and I wrote the words, you can have it all, and I just stared at it. And it just wasn't clicking for me. And then I realized that the thing that was not clicking was the you. Because the mom inside of me doesn't care about going to work. She wanted to just stay home and rock the babies.
Amanda Goetz:The person I am at work doesn't want to leave it for. Yeah. And like the party girl inside of me doesn't want to be ruining my boobs like breastfeeding. Yes. Like there's these different yous inside of you.
Amanda Goetz:And that was the moment for me to start to allow myself to give space for the fact that I have these competing versions of myself. And so House of Wise then was this evolution of that to say, give yourself permission to experience pleasure. Like what does that look like? What do you need? Do you need space?
Amanda Goetz:Do you need a routine? And so this book is just a continuing evolution of something that has helped me so much realize that alignment is really hard to do when you don't create separation.
Kate Northrup:So great. I love it. Thank you so much. I'm so happy you came.
Amanda Goetz:You It was for being amazing.
Kate Northrup:Where should people get the book? Where should they connect with you? Yeah, you can go
Amanda Goetz:to toxicgrit.com. Okay, great. And you can download I have a free workbook, a bonus chapter, if you buy the book, you can get all of those things at toxicgrit.com.
Kate Northrup:Amazing, Thank
Amanda Goetz:you.
Kate Northrup:Thanks for listening to this episode of Plenty. If you enjoyed it, make sure you subscribe, leave a rating, leave a review. That's one of the best ways that you can ensure to spread the abundance of plenty with others. You can even text it to a friend and tell them to listen in. And if you want even more support to expand your abundance, head over to katenorthrop.com/breakthroughs where you can grab my free money breakthrough guide that details the biggest money breakthroughs from some of the top earning women I know, plus a mini lesson accompanying it with my own biggest money breakthroughs and a nervous system healing tool for you to expand your abundance.
Kate Northrup:Again, that's over at katenorthwick.com/breakthroughs. See you next time.