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Dr. John Sherk, owner and president of Operations Laboratory reveals all of his HVAC technician career happiness strategies, income improvements and killer tech-happiness tips and tricks so you can get ahead of the curve with your HVAC technician career. Discover how you can create a quality negotiated agreement with your manager that works for you so that you can have the time and freedom to do what you love, whether it’s coaching your kids’ teams, getting out there for hunting season, or just living comfortably at home with your family. Since 2010, he’s been consulting his many HVAC clients on how to develop and manage a culture that is friendly to tech-happiness, and here he openly shares his wins, his losses, and all the lessons in between with the community of energetic but humble HVAC techs, managers, and owners who follow him. Self-proclaimed “Technician Happiness Guru” you’ll learn about getting paid what you deserve, building genuine and loyal relationships at work and at home, recruiting winners (tip: they all already work for someone else), building a tech-happy culture, quality communication, skills mastery, optimizing performance, negotiating compensation, professionalism, , and productivity tips so that you create an amazing, tech-happy life without burning yourself out. It’s a mix of interviews, special co-hosts and solo shows from John you’re not going to want to miss. Hit subscribe, and get ready to change your life.
00:03 Welcome to HVAC JoyLab Podcast, everybody. I'm with Ryan Strong today. Welcome, Ryan. for having me, Dr. Sherk. Absolutely. So tell us all about you, man.
00:13 You're in Pennsylvania, right? Yeah, in Northeast PA, we service the relatively small region. we've got, we've got 12 technicians on the team, two girls in the office.
00:24 And my family started the business in 1937. 37 really wow that's like a fan and a cube of ice that's that's amazing so you third generation fourth fourth wow so that's now very interested so tell me about the the pass-off does this did you buy it from your dad or did you was it just kind of passed to
00:46 him when he retired to you when he retired or what did that part look like so actually in the in the process of a lot of that right now, business started with selling coal in 37.
00:57 Oh wow. And has progressed from that to selling fuel oil. My father brought in the fuel oil. That's obviously coal kind of went out and back in August, the fuel oil part of the business is actually sold.
01:10 So the past 10 years, we've really changed focus from the fuel sales to the actual HVAC service, which are an overly similar same industry, but you know, complete focuses.
01:23 So I really focus on the age back end of it, that stuff with the fuel oil sales end of it.
01:28 Like I said, that recently sold the fuels aside of it. So he's in a lot of financial stuff. Unlike most family business dynamics, we tend to work together, thankfully.
01:41 So good. Wow, that's excellent. That's excellent. Forth generation, that's really, I mean, I know there wasn't evolution and sort of what business you're in.
01:48 But you know, there's a kind of math that goes into those generational handoffs and they get less successful with each generation, you know.
01:56 So yeah, so good for you that you're making all that work. Yeah, thank you. And so you're doing like a lot of residential, you do like install, service, phone rings, you get there faster than a pizza kind of thing or more like what is your business like?
02:13 so we're mostly residential. we've gotten a little bit into commercial based on the customer bases that we already are dealing with.
02:23 we deal with mostly vacation homes. We're around like Wampau pack, which is the largest land made made man made lake in Pennsylvania.
02:31 So a lot of location homes with deal with a lot of the higher end residential locations. So a lot of the residential customers we have actually border with commercial just because of the size of homes.
02:47 But yeah, yeah, so mostly residential. We have a separate service department recently have partially separated the install and service end of the businesses where you have a girl in the office actually working with the service with the Jeff on the service end and just like fuel delivery and HFAC or,
03:08 you know, same industry, different focuses, so the service and install from what I found. So, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a here now kind of thing versus a, versus a plan and, and be ready approach.
03:21 So to know approaches to different skill sets. Yeah, you know, that's a really good, for the audience, if you're a technician, you're thinking about getting started on your own with your own business, listen to the niche Ryan is working.
03:35 It doesn't limit him. He can go do maintenance at a bank. That's fine, but he's got this niche he's built off of.
03:42 And so by having these vacation homes, there's a certain stability and a go to market that comes with that. And there's a lot of when guys get started doing their own thing and I have done this myself several times So I know what this feels like it feels like where does it hurt?
03:59 How can I help? You know, you need me to walk your dog Like you want me to wash your car like what do I got anything?
04:05 What do I do anything? You know because it's at the beginning and you need cash flow and it's you know, whatever but the more You take your business into a clear specific area.
04:17 The more people want to work with you if they match that. You know, the if they know you're the go-to guy for these vacation homes, they got neighbors that, you know, they work with you also.
04:27 It just creates a you're the first guy they call and it creates an easy part of the business to just kind of operate.
04:35 Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. That I do that as well. You know, the I'm known as a guy who worked for their conditioning companies and recruits technicians.
04:44 But at right now, I have a client that is a sugar cane farmer, I have a client that is a tugboat To move materials on the Mississippi, right?
04:53 So, I mean, it's not like I can't do other things And I don't get phone calls for other things, but I don't promote that as much because It you know if you're everything to everybody, you're kind of just not anything to anybody, you know So yeah, good for you, man Thank you So let's talk about technicians
05:11 So are you a technician yourself at this point? I'm mostly doing estimating and working directly with builders. So while I that's where I get my start, and thankful for that.
05:26 And it helps me tremendously in the decision now. Sure. I think it's possible to be successful in the system and now.
05:34 Absolutely. but you came up as a technician, absolutely. Yeah. So you have technicians working for you. You've been one yourself.
05:43 What kind of thoughts do you have about what makes life great if you're a technician? What, what should they be thinking about?
05:49 like any other job, you know, separating the job aspect for the actual, you know, the living and everyday life aspect, you know, you don't have to have no one's going to show up to their job and love the actual job they're doing necessarily.
06:07 I think that's unrealistic versus just being surrounded by people you enjoy being around and actually, you know, showing up the right approach and yeah it's all about building and maintaining atmosphere that you want to be in versus necessarily loving what you're specifically doing because I think that's
06:25 on realistically I said sure yeah this still work there's still going to be no one wants to climb around a 130 degree attic in July you know but I think you're making a good point in that some it seems to me with especially residential technicians some guys lean into the technology.
06:45 They like the mechanical side of it. And some guys lean into the people's side of it. They like the customer service side of it.
06:51 And on the work level, what I'll usually coach technicians is you got to, you got to love one of those and then you got to be adequate in the other one.
06:59 You know, and if you love both, great. If you hate both, you're in the wrong line of the line of work, right?
07:05 But I know some guys who are, they are adequate mechanically, you know, I mean, you're not going to send them to a rooftop and work on a hundred ton mag jiller.
07:15 But it's, you know, they know what they're doing with a five-ton split system. But they love the service. They just love that moment where they go to the door and they knock.
07:24 They don't know who they're going to see. You know, I mean, these guys all have the best stories. You know, one of these guys, I know one of these guys, he asks him, what's your advice for technicians?
07:36 And he says, if they have a monkey, don't pet it. I can imagine a story that I came from. Yeah, exactly.
07:43 He was like, man, that monkey mulled me. and then other guys, they, you know, they're solid and customer service. They can communicate the status of the situation.
07:54 But they just love the troubleshooting the tech part of it. You know, and it either one of those is fine.
08:00 Absolutely. That's what I'm huge on. And there's there's certain times like now, but before Christmas, we were a major, major pressure.
08:07 So now we're catching in fashion to just get the work done and we need to get done. But during the normal seasons, putting people in a position that they're growing to succeed and enjoy working on, you know, we've got some guys that are great with computer applications, stuff like that.
08:21 They're working on our high-end LG inverter equipment because you've got to work on a computer to work on that stuff to throw somebody who would prefer, you know, who loves oil burners into that position would be the fail and they're going to hate their job.
08:33 Yeah, that's a good example. Yeah, the technology used to be all the technology was on the commercial side, but not anymore, man There's some very complicated residential systems out there.
08:43 Absolutely. It's getting more so. Yeah. Yeah, that's gonna be interesting to see where that goes The I think that the the technology keeps getting more proprietary and more OEM centered and it makes me wonder where we're gonna Go with all of that eventually because I mean the controls languages have
09:00 been that way for a while But the actual hardware was easier to kind of move back and forth, you know, there's separation where it's not now exactly Do we end up with trained specific compressors or whatever that becomes like the equipment is just all straight OEM you have to get it from the OEM and
09:17 and that's how it where I don't know. We'll see where it goes That's the direction most of our business has gone We work mostly with LG equipment and that's all extremely specific equipment and not only to the manufacturer to model itself and sometimes even the serial number.
09:32 Yeah, interesting, interesting. You made another good point there as well that about the loving life and then that's different from the work itself.
09:43 And that's another thing I see technicians sometimes not kind of realizing that a great life doesn't show up, it's built.
09:54 And I think that because technicians tend to live in a world where most technicians didn't go to high school dreaming of being a technician, they needed a job and they found their way into it.
10:05 And then every day, it's in response, you know, the dispatcher sends them to the next place. They sometimes don't even know when the day's going to be over.
10:13 And they're in that life path kind of, that zone, that sort of the way the days work. work, but then building a great life is exactly the opposite.
10:25 You have to intentionally build your life, you know, with like I talk about this a lot these days, like grow your palate for life, meaning, you know, not only food, but, you know, just what do you like?
10:40 Just like how a technician, when they get started, the work isn't fun, especially at first because they have to do the grind.
10:48 They have to grind through several years to get good at it, and then doing things you're good at feels good, right?
10:54 The same thing is true with everything else in life, whether it's developing a taste for great beer or developing whatever, you know, your love of anything.
11:06 I don't care if it's kites, I don't care if it's bicycles, I don't care what it is, you have to develop your love for it.
11:12 And then as you develop multiple things you love, suddenly you look around and you've got a great life. And recognizing that I think stopping and being grateful for it is or at least recognizing that's not the case.
11:23 If you don't stop and do that, then like you say, you're constantly just reacting every day. And you're going to have to do it either way, but yeah, I'm just going to put yourself to do it in.
11:32 If you don't mind, I've got a quick example. We've got it. Yeah, please. Yeah. Yeah, we've got a customer right now who really, really pioneered job and just a year ago, major issue with the equipment there.
11:45 So, it's a really unpleasant situation, but I've got a personal relationship with a customer just to working with them, that from beforehand, they've been great to deal with.
11:54 I know I've got a column made donor of a distributor and the manufacturer's rep, both where I have personal relationships with just their business, who I really enjoy talking to.
12:03 So, in absolute terrible situation that normally sucks, but I'm looking forward to calling on both the manufacturer's rep and the ownership just because I knew it was people.
12:19 So horrible situation, turn into not, you know. Yeah, it's still a good day. Yeah, you know, and that's a great example because sometimes what looks like, like you said, a horrible situation becomes this great opportunity to build a relationship.
12:37 Absolutely, absolutely. And if you don't stop it, recognize that's not, You know, if you were doing all that with people you didn't want to deal with and you didn't stop and realize that that was the part That was the problem.
12:49 That's what made the day terrible. Then yeah, you would just keep doing the same thing every day Yeah, I mean we work and yeah, we work in a business where things break down and so you know, that's if you It's another good tip for technicians to realize every one of those moments is a chance to build
13:05 a relationship Yeah, and it's true sort of in house as well. You know stuff happens in house. You want to have a better relationship with your service manager.
13:16 You know, even if you made the mistake on it. You know, I, here's what I think here. Let me go fix it.
13:23 You know, no one expects and someone else to not ever make a mistake. It's really what becomes more interesting is how they handle it.
13:32 You know, do you hide it? Do you, do you just hope the customer just kind of doesn't notice for three months?
13:39 You know, I really should have rebuilt that drain pan, but I just stuck the old one on there. They're probably going to call me in six months because, you know, and but I just won't tell anybody I won't, you know, and then the customer calls back in six months.
13:51 Oh, did you did you even saw that unit? yeah. I don't know what you're talking about, right? That whole situation could be completely different from a text perspective.
14:02 If they say, you know what boss? I should have rebuilt that drainpan. I didn't do it. But so let me go.
14:07 I'll go do it. I'll fix it. And the service manager is going to say, I love this guy. And that's all person relationship-based.
14:14 I mean, from people like you said, in the ads, people that you work around, you know, caring and supporting about each other, all the way from the B2B stuff to the distributors to the manufacturers having all those relationships into the customers is all that is so important.
14:29 That's to me what makes, you know, a good day or, you know, a good day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I wish they talked more about this in like a mechanical school.
14:39 Like there's, there's not like a class on, you know, this is really actually a relationship business. This isn't really, you have to do the mechanical stuff, but this is really a relationship business.
14:49 Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's why so many businesses of our time building, you know, people building a business. Yeah.
14:56 So many one man fans out there and so many of those guys I talked to were so unhappy with their life, but think, you know, yeah, but they were unhappy working for somebody too.
15:06 Yeah. Yeah. They're just unhappy. Happy. So how is it up there in terms of the like the labor market? Do you find technicians easily?
15:18 Not easily, like, what does that look like for you? I'm extraordinary blessed with the technicians that we have and with how easy I've had it, it was bringing good people in technician wise the past three years here.
15:35 That was about when I really changed my focus as far as the atmosphere and what we were trying to build here is the outside of the technical end of it.
15:44 Yeah. And like I said, I've been really, really, really blessed with that and with people we don't want to be a part of what we have here.
15:53 I've had a couple people that we've hired in the past couple of years turn away, larger offers and better offers, you know, health care, all that, to come join our team and be a part of what we have to go on here.
16:08 Like I said, that's really blessed with that end of it. this is the question. I think every technician, when they're in, if they're considering making a change or talking, think about working for a different company, how are you doing finding technicians?
16:24 Because the landscape has changed out there. And if someone answers the way you just answered Ryan, it means the culture is probably pretty good.
16:33 You know, like the, if they're like, and now I'm not going to say in every case because sometimes they're just growing so fast, they feel that's what's holding them back, because they can't get enough technicians.
16:45 But the disparity between the number of opportunities out there and the number of technicians out there just keeps getting bigger every day.
16:56 I saw data, I'm on the Gulf Coast, South Louisiana down in the bayou, and some consultants out of Cincinnati ran numbers of demand and actual headcount, and by summer of 2025, in most of the trades, down here, we're going to be running at about 15% of need.
17:20 And so, I mean, you think what does a grocery store look like when a hundred people come and there's only 15 loaves of bread, and we don't know for sure yet what it really is going to evolve into, you know?
17:32 And on top of it over the next 10 years across the whole country, half of craft labor is going to retire.
17:39 And so, yeah, so it's, it is becoming a very interesting dynamic. And that's another part I'm blessed and a lot of our crew is younger.
17:47 We've got, and our older group of guys have adapted unlike, unlike anywhere else that I can compare it to, honestly, to catch up at the time and to keep up with the changes that we've made.
18:05 And then they, like I said, our older group of guys has helped me move up in a company and helped me expand the company, which is huge.
18:13 Yeah. Yeah, that's the, that, good for you by the way, that's that issue of technicians, it's every every owner I talk to, it's like, either they've really put a high priority on making a great atmosphere for technicians, it gets really tough to compete for techs with wage wars.
18:33 You know, there's one company in my market that has just started offering guys, I'll give you 15 bucks an hour more.
18:41 Just come work for me. It's 15 bucks and they're going for making $28 an hour to $43 an hour for this new job.
18:49 And he can do it because he's a T&M company, and he just passes that cost on to, you know, in the quote.
18:56 And, but, but what's happening is these guys go into this new job, and that's all he's doing for them. Right?
19:06 Like, he feels like, if I'm paying you $42 an hour, you're getting everything you're getting for me. And that's unrealistic.
19:12 And if his expectations go up just based on that. And yeah, I don't know. Yeah, to me, that's not up to the trailer.
19:19 Yeah. Yeah, it creates an environment where these guys, they like the new money, but then they start getting bills that match that new money, and then they can't leave.
19:30 And if his attitude is that now he's over paying them, that that's a bad start too, because you've got your own, you've got your own mindset to contend with as well.
19:38 Yeah. And he's over paying them. Then then he's sending himself a a failure too. That's right. Well, and what is actually happening with him?
19:46 He's one of the bigger people in the market, but what's the, he's a commercial company, and they compete for big commercial contracts with school systems and, you know, big, seven-figure maintenance contracts.
19:58 But if you do that kind of work, you have to have enough culture for a technician who's alone to stand in front of a piece of equipment and properly maintain it, and not just kind of spray spray the coil and put the cover back on and go talk to my girlfriend for an hour on my truck, you know?
20:14 And so if you don't have that culture, they're not engaged when they pull the cover off. The product you deliver is not adequate and now that's starting to catch up with them.
20:24 And others are competing with him at that level and they're paying guys less than he's paying so it, you know, it is what it is.
20:31 And you can't, especially to expand, you can't keep guys under tabs as you get larger. So you're relying purely on whether or not people care.
20:41 Yeah. Yeah, he does, he does huge T&M jobs, like huge, huge T&M, like, you know, $10 million kind of projects.
20:51 He's gotten into the maintenance side. It doesn't work because he can't, he can't make that business model work for him.
20:57 There's no check, right? That's right. That's right. Yeah, that on the other hand, I have a client I've been with for about 10 years and they just had their annual Christmas party and they literally, we've got about 125 technicians, so it's a pretty sizable operation, right?
21:14 And they buy Christmas gift for every child of every employee in their company every year. And then they do this deal where they have a Christmas tree, where they put money in envelopes and everybody gets an envelope.
21:28 And one of the smallest one is like 300 bucks. The one envelope's got $10,000. And so they, so this, you know, this, this Christmas event, it's like the, everybody looks forward to it, you know.
21:42 And everybody gets excited about it. And it's this big kind of blowout every year. And they love it. And they, every year, they get these comments back, someone who just got hired that year.
21:53 And they, they, in fact, they took video of this year. One of the senior owners is literally walking around with a fistful of $100 bills passing them out and the people that are new, they're like, what is this?
22:07 What is going on? We were in a meeting yesterday actually and we talked about it and one of the other owners said, it's just part of the sauce.
22:16 It's just part of how we do what we do. You know, they know the relationship between that party and good maintenance, getting done.
22:23 Right. You know, it is what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And for technicians who were out there, like meanwhile, another story of a tech, I tell the story a lot.
22:36 This was a company about your size in North Louisiana. And the owner decided that, you know, all the guys have had sales quotas.
22:47 And so he decided he was going to put up a wall of shame and took an 8 by 10 picture and framed it of all the technicians.
22:57 And they had a meeting every Monday and whoever didn't meet their quota last week. He put their picture up on the wall of shame so that we could kind of communicate to guys what happens if you don't meet your sales quota.
23:07 Like they're both out there. Both of those companies are out there. Yeah, I don't I don't that approach. I don't either.
23:16 That's how it would start the week. Yeah, exactly. Driving people down. Yeah. Well, and from a customer level, how much are you getting sold that really customer doesn't need that's not a, you know?
23:28 Yeah, and that's a poor approach as well. And that's a fine line because you want to keep the guys motivated and sales the best way to do that.
23:34 There's no doubt. But the same time, like you said, as soon as you create that atmosphere, now the customer is a number to the tech, too.
23:43 and that's not good either. That's totally great, totally great. But for the tech, that's what I wanna say. There's guys like Ryan out there to work for.
23:49 There's guys like my client out there with the crystal spotty to work for. So if you find in yourself, I'm gonna say this really boldly, if you find yourself in a position where you feel like it's toxic, get out now.
24:04 Don't wait. Don't listen, any technician that's willing, that's got some skills willing to work, you can get a job in about 15 minutes, right?
24:14 Don't be scared. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I've got a couple of great examples of that. And I'm for longer, it would take me longer than I the way here to have here.
24:23 But the amount of guys that stay with somebody because they're driven down by them, you know, I've got one guy that I tried to bring on that he was, he was, he was told repeatedly that he went to school for the trade and everything.
24:36 He was told, he's just been the negativity that's been fed to him over and over again, you weren't taught anything at school, you weren't given the tools you were needed.
24:46 can't go out on your own, you can't go work for somebody because they can't utilize you because you can't go out on your own vehicle.
24:54 I think that same guy for four years telling on that, they're how long is it that person's fault that they haven't taught you either.
25:02 You look white to start doubting that, you know, that you weren't given the tools, maybe it's just, you know, maybe that's where you're being held.
25:09 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, and that's, there's a lot of chatter about this business of shortage of labor and all of that, but it's real.
25:18 And I don't know a single market in America, probably, probably Canada also, where, you know, if you've got a little, you've got a few reps, you know, you know, what, you can go up to a house and you know what to do, kind of thing.
25:31 you can kind of work anywhere you want to. And so if you're getting this kind of nonsense abuse of treatment, the way the labor market's going to push everybody is you're going to have to create a great place to work.
25:43 You're just going to go out of business and let's just couple. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. So man, if you're in a, in that environment, get out.
25:51 Don't, don't wait. listen, Ryan, I really enjoyed our conversation. So bye, so bye. So you're there up in Eastern Pennsylvania.
26:05 Do you have anything, you know, there's technicians that are going to hear this? Do you, is there customers possibly, but for sure technicians, how can they reach out to you if they want to come work for you?
26:16 probably best is email. it's a thing I don't lose track of. my email is rstrong, strong enterprises.org. and you're welcome to reach out to in a resume.
26:27 I obviously look in the grow, hoping to expand our region as well. at a, at a reasonable pace, but, and having people that, that to the atmosphere that I'm hoping to build.
26:39 Yeah, exactly. Well, clearly, you're keeping good guys and that means you're a good place to work. So if you're in his neck of the woods, I would reach out, at least form the count.
26:48 Maybe you're not going to go for another year, but get to know Ryan. Absolutely. That's right. And then when the day is right for you, you can call Ryan.
26:56 He'd be like, come on. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Well, listen, Ryan. Thanks so much for being on the podcast. Thanks, Dr.
27:03 Sherk. Great talking to you.