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"A LOT with Audra" is the podcast for women juggling big dreams and full lives. Each episode, host, Audra Dinell, Midwestern wife, mom and neurodivergent multi-six figure entrepreneur encourages women to embrace their many roles holistically by living a values-based life with confidence and joy. Through candid discussions, practical strategies and inspiring stories, this podcast is your guide to designing and achieving success without losing yourself in the process.
Ep59
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[00:00:00]
Audra Dinell: [00:01:00] Hey, thanks for being here today. I am talking to Amber Dunn. She delights in bridging the world of entrepreneurship alignment and holistic wellness. Any chance she can get, whether it's in her work building programs that support the Kansas entrepreneurial ecosystem, helping teams across the country navigate growth. Or her community work As a sound bath and group fitness facilitator, she loves a good challenge and loves facilitating opportunities to let the best of those around her shine. Most importantly, she's proud of her little village, supporting the working mothers, caregivers, and ambitious women around her through mentorship, friendship, and community building her passion for authentic connection and joy makes her a fun voice in conversations around women's health.
Work-life balance and redefining what it means to thrive. So today is a special treat.
Book Club Discussion: The Wedding People
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Audra Dinell: I'm having Amber on to discuss something that we read for [00:02:00] our book club, and that is the book, the Wedding People. By Alison esp. So I will say if you have not read the book yet, there are a few spoiler alerts, but if you have. I think you're gonna love this conversation, and if you haven't read The Wedding People, I would highly recommend it it is such a great second act book. It just embodies so much of what we're talking about here.
But the reason we're using this book as a tool to launch the conversation is because this conversation goes far, far, far beyond a book club.
Themes of Radical Honesty
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Audra Dinell: This dives deep into some of the themes that came up, including. Radical honesty and self abandonment. So whether or not you have read the book, I know you're gonna love this conversation.
Anytime I get to learn from Amber, I feel so grateful. So thanks for joining us. Okay, so in the book, the author writes. When does the pretending stop? Lila asks. I'd like to say whenever you want it to [00:03:00] be. Phoebe says, but she knows this isn't true. It's harder than that. I think it stops when you get fed up. Fed up with what yourself, Phoebe says. But how long does that take? Lila asks as if she's at the doctor writing down notes.
It took me 40 years. Okay. Welcome Amber.
Amber Dunn: Thank you. And it's not gonna take me 40 years.
Audra Dinell: I love that. And you know, this season of the podcast is focusing on second acts, and since I'm turning 40 in a few months at the time we're recording this, it's really been focusing on sort of like that becoming in the shift that I'm feeling, but it's not totally age bound, that's for sure.
Like someone's second act could be. Leaving a career to go into entrepreneurship or ending a relationship, or even just these like tiny shifts. But you and I went to book club last week and both loved this book, the Wedding People,
Amber Dunn: we [00:04:00] loved it.
Audra Dinell: Yes. And that quote is one that I was like, that's it. It's like when the pretending stops, when you're fed up with yourself.
And I thought, there's one person that I wanna have a conversation with about this, and I think the whole world should hear it. So. We both shared that reading this book helped us embrace more radical honesty, and I'm curious how that has shown up
Amber Dunn: for
Audra Dinell: you. Yeah.
Personal Reflections and Safe Spaces
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Amber Dunn: So not to go deep, too deep into the woods, but this is the year of the horse in Chinese Zodiac.
Mm-hmm. And it is all about being bold and being brave and being authentic and. At some points, what seems on the outside is a little bit indecisive. And for me, how that radical honesty has shown up, and let me pause. The word radical almost feels a little bit too intense. It doesn't really have to be.
But for me, the radical honesty where it's showing up is in pitching new ideas. Actually listening to myself and what my desires [00:05:00] are it can even be something, or has even been something as simple as speaking up for what my needs are and what I want even at home. So very rarely do I say, Hey, partner of mine.
Will you help me clean? Will you help me do some, some laundry? Or will you help me vacuum? And it's in those little micro moments throughout our every day where I've seen that really show up. It hasn't been this massive shift. It's been in those little micro moments for me.
Audra Dinell: I would say the same thing.
And I used the term radical honesty. You know, this conversation sparked from our reading of the wedding people, and I felt like it rolled really well into the podcast theme this year, this season. But radical is the word that I chose, and I am kind of laughing at myself because that's cool. Like I'm a fire sign, I'm a, you know.
Adhd, Enneagram seven, like, you know, all the big bold [00:06:00] things like is what I typically gravitate towards, but I find myself being pulled to just a softer space. So I love that you called that out, and that's the way it's been showing up for me too. I've been thinking even in my interactions with my husband or with my kids or with my team, people that I interact with all day, every day.
I have been trying to. Tap into a truer version of me and say more directly or succinctly, like what I mean. And I even notice, like I'm doing that with myself too. Mm-hmm. Like if I'm lying to myself about something. My husband and I were having a conversation this weekend about just sort of like a little, not battle we got into, but a little like.
Conversation that went off the rails and you could tell there was more stuff coming into that conversation. Mm-hmm. Than just what we were talking about. We were talking about the bathroom we just remodeled and the toilet paper handle to be [00:07:00] very specific, and later that night I was like, Hey, can we talk about what went on in that conversation and what you were bringing to it?
What I was bringing to it? Because there was more than just the toilet paper handle. Mm-hmm. To like admit to myself, oh, I actually was being a little passive aggressive. So I guess I'm trying to be more honest in those safe zones that I have and within myself.
Amber Dunn: And I, I love that you use the word safe zones because so much of this work that I've been doing with myself and with others is helping us see where we are safe.
And in those moments where you can really be. 110% yourself, and it feels so scary.
Audra Dinell: Mm-hmm.
Amber Dunn: To be radically honest, but when you realize that you're safe. So, so many beautiful things can come of that.
Audra Dinell: Mm. I love the way you say that. And how have you, like on your journey or helping others, how have you helped people or [00:08:00] yourself,
find a safe space?
Amber Dunn: Yeah, so it has started through experiencing the power of breath work.
Audra Dinell: Mm-hmm.
Amber Dunn: And being in my body to realize. What was going on inside.
Audra Dinell: Mm-hmm.
Amber Dunn: And of course, therapy as well helps you really realize where you're feeling safe and where those moments are to lean into more of the you that you're meant to be.
Audra Dinell: Mm-hmm.
Amber Dunn: And then you start to realize, oh, this feeling inside that I'm having in this situation or in this place, or with these people or this person, it. Feels off. And it presents in different ways for different people, but that off is just a little signal of, oh, I don't feel safe here.
Audra Dinell: Mm-hmm.
Amber Dunn: And that's okay.
That's okay too.
Audra Dinell: Yeah. We're gonna have spaces like that. Mm-hmm. That's sort of like a sign post or like a sticky note to say, Hey, you know, maybe dial it down a bit or. Your guard is up.
Amber Dunn: Mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: And I mean, that just is the way the world [00:09:00] is. We are not gonna be our, our full unmasked, vulnerable selves with every single person in every single space.
Right. That would not be good for us. But it's good to know where those spaces are, that we can be like that and we need those spaces. Mm-hmm. So that we're recharged for when we go out into the world and have a mask on or however you wanna say it.
Amber Dunn: And I identified so much with Lila in the book because she was running around completely masked as something so different than what she really was inside.
And one of the characters without going too much into detail, his name's Jim. That's someone who she felt like she could really be her, her silly, weird self with, and. It wasn't until you start to see in the very, towards the very end of the book where she's like begging for all of the things to go wrong.
Audra Dinell: Mm-hmm.
Amber Dunn: She's looking for things to go wrong in life.
Audra Dinell: Yep.
Amber Dunn: In her wedding weekend or wedding week, [00:10:00] that will be an excuse for her to not have to show up and get married.
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Amber Dunn: To this other guy.
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Amber Dunn: And I was just, my mind was blown. Think of all of the times in your life where. You've wished or hoped for a different outcome, but really you're just looking for excuses outside of you and yourself.
Looking for ways that you don't have to be radically honest.
Audra Dinell: Yep.
Amber Dunn: To avoid that situation or that thing.
Audra Dinell: Ugh. That is so convicting. And I'm gonna put a spoiler alert on the front of this podcast of like, just go read the book. No, that's okay. I'm like, just go read the book and then, or if you don't, if you're not interested in the book, that's fine.
You can still get. value from our conversation, but I love how you put that into words about Lila and Jim because I just had that feeling about them from the first time where she was crying with him on the street and they were one of my favorite parts. But I don't think I [00:11:00] like had put that into words of it's because she can be completely herself with him.
I, I thought that subconsciously, but I just love the way you put that into words. And I loved Delilah, who she was not the mask. And so that's like encouragement for us of like mm-hmm. The right people. The people for us will love us for who we are when the mask is off, but the risk is sitting in the uncomfortability or being okay with.
Not being for everyone if you're not going to, and as
Amber Dunn: a recovering people pleaser, I, that feels like death at times. The idea that you are 100% yourself and then somebody's not going to love you or accept you or approve or be happy with your decisions
Is just really, really, it can physically feel so scary.
And I think that's where the work is, you know?
Audra Dinell: Yeah. I don't know if I've ever identified as being a people [00:12:00] pleaser, like I've got some of my teammates do.
But I mean, I think that seed is in all of us because I've, I feel that too. Like I've always felt like, you know, I get to decide.
I've always been very headstrong and felt a little bit more like a rebel than a people pleaser. And that has bit me in the butt sometimes too, right? Like, yeah. Two sides of a coin, like you have to sort of find that gray zone. You don't wanna live in either one. People pleasing all the time or just rebelling for the sake of rebelling, So I've really had to find my middle ground there, but I'm often surprised at when I am actually peeling back the layers, how much other people's opinions or pleasing. Is, is there
Amber Dunn: It is really at play with the decisions you make and how you move about the world?
Audra Dinell: Yes. Yeah,
Amber Dunn: for sure.
Audra Dinell: Hmm. Okay. Where do you think women are most rewarded for pretending to be fine versus honest or for [00:13:00] wearing those masks versus being their true selves?
Workplace Dynamics and Authenticity
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Amber Dunn: I thought about this when you sent the questions over, and of course this is only from my own experience. So I have a bit of a bias and that's typically in the workplace, the whole, don't let them see you sweat.
I went through a couple of really challenging experiences toward the end of 2025 and going into 2026, where. I actually was able to see how incredible my workplace is and my support system at work is. But I know it's not the same way for everybody and it hasn't always been that way for me.
And I, think that when you're, especially as a woman, when you're a professional and you're working full time and whether or not you have children, but you're managing a household and you're managing all of the things that are running through our heads. The whole, don't let them see you sweat thing just really comes up for me.
And I think I'm [00:14:00] starting to let people see me sweat a little and that's okay too. It's uncomfortable for me and for them, but yeah, it's just more about that radical honesty and being true to myself and listening to what I need and then communicating what that is.
Audra Dinell: So what, when you say don't let them see
Amber Dunn: you sweat, like, unpack that a little bit.
It can be anything from asking for help. Okay. Needing help. Yep. It can be from an emotional standpoint, but I'm even starting to dive into better understanding the, the rhythm and cycle of the female body and what parts of. The month and the cycle, you're on fire and capable and ready and able.
And then what other parts are more like, actually no, this isn't my best time to think big thoughts and to dream up big thoughts. Like I'm actually just kind of coming in and trying to nurture. And some people might wildly disagree [00:15:00] with that, and that's okay, but it, again, it just comes back to what feels true and honest.
And in alignment with myself. And I think in terms of don't let them see you sweat unpacking that is, it's in the workload, it's in the work flow. It's in the emotional side of just being a human in this crazy world.
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Amber Dunn: And showing up again for yourself and then articulating that in a way.
That is helpful to yourself and everybody around you.
Audra Dinell: Yeah, I can relate to that. Last week in the world, a lot of things went down and there were at least two days where I showed up a hot mess. And I also feel grateful that I have a team that can hold that they can bring that when they need to. That's not every day for us.
That's not always right, but that does happen. And one of the members of my [00:16:00] team was just so gracious to remind me when I was showing up in the way I was and. Sort of spinning, she was reminding me, Hey, there's a lot going on in the world and that's probably playing into what's going on in your head right now.
So I just feel yeah, grateful to have that space to show in. Mm-hmm. Up in. And also I believe that not everyone has that, right? That some people just had to go to work. I know plenty of people that just had to go to work and put the mask on and pretend that they weren't a human. During hard times, and that just kills me about culture.
It's like this is a workplace culture problem. We spend so much time at work
Amber Dunn: mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: Our cultures need to be
Amber Dunn: sound for sure. And being able to identify that, the opportunities and really harnessing that opportunity. Again, I've not always had that and I have it now and I'm really grateful for that too.
Audra Dinell: [00:17:00] I also really got into cycle syncing when I first started my business, and am so fascinated with that. And speaking of my team, they know what phase of my cycle I'm on at all times because it's literally on my calendar. My husband, my kids, we've thought about getting one of those skylight calendars that is like a digital, oh my gosh, right?
Sitting on your kitchen, and I'm like, well, then my kids would legit know when to mess with me and when not to mess with me. Right. But I think. All the work that I've done on myself and all these different tools and systems that I've explored and used, I oftentimes still don't remember. Like if I'm having a day where I'm overwhelmed, I tend to blame it on myself.
And that's a place where I can really show myself some more self-compassion. I tend to just get down on myself, maybe not as much as I used to, but that's still the first instinct. Mm-hmm. Like I've overbooked myself. The stories I play in my head,
Amber Dunn: right?
Audra Dinell: I always do this instead of looking at, oh [00:18:00] wait, where am I in my cycle and what's going on in the world?
Okay, this is probably bigger than just a scheduling calendar mistake that I made.
Amber Dunn: Yes. And being aware of it and then putting it into practice. Step one, awareness. Step two is practice, and then there's this whole other step, which is how do you navigate that? The world comes alongside you to move that forward versus like you against the world.
So, that piece specifically has been an interesting challenge that I'm not super outspoken about in the workplace. But that I'm trying to be like how am I implementing this in my world with my workflows and how I move? And also still showing up for my team and, and. Not making them shift their whole lives around just because of what I'm experiencing inside.
So
Audra Dinell: yeah,
Amber Dunn: it's interesting.
Audra Dinell: And that's, but that's real. I haven't even
Amber Dunn: tapped that yet.
Audra Dinell: That's real. But I think one of the things that I learned in cohort, one of the thread [00:19:00] one leader who came and spoke to us, and I can't remember who it was right now, but they talked about when your team needs something from you.
Tell them what percentage of you is available to give. And so if a team member knocks on your door for a quick question, you could turn and say, I can answer right now. You've got 50% of me. Or if you give me. Two hours, I can give you 90%. And so I think that's cool.
Amber Dunn: Yeah. That, that's kind of the Brene Brown thing when you're coming home from a hard day telling your partner, Hey, I'm coming home at 30%.
Audra Dinell: Yes.
Amber Dunn: And he's like, great, I've got your, your last 70 or whatever.
Audra Dinell: I love that. Yeah.
Amber Dunn: And I tend to stay in awareness phase
Audra Dinell: I am self judging, but I feel like I stay in awareness space for a long time. And some of that is like limiting what I consume, even if it's good stuff. Mm-hmm. So that like I. Have heard, read that part of the book that Brene Brown talks about that what is it?
Dare to Lead maybe And we have never implemented it, but I [00:20:00] thought I just, when you said that, I thought, oh, that would be so good for Cory and I, so you said something on
Amber Dunn: limiting what you consume and with the wedding people and with Lila specifically, she had. The whole week. Wedding week was so much of a to do.
There was so much, there were so many things and so much stuff built around that experience that I think it just kept her busy, busy, busy, busy, busy.
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Amber Dunn: So that she didn't actually have to look inward and feel her feelings and experience her shit, you know?
Audra Dinell: Yep.
Amber Dunn: And I. I identified with that too very much because for my world I know that I am going into overdrive and need to like sit and be still either do some breath work or meditate or have a little bit of a rest.
But I'm trying to typically avoid [00:21:00] something if I am going a million miles per hour, booking the calendar, filled with all the things, trying to be there for everybody, doing all the things for everybody else. I saw a lot of mirrors in, in that with Lila and just how she set up her wedding week. I thought that was interesting.
Audra Dinell: I think that's interesting too, and I didn't make that connection. That's been, I mean, I feel like this podcast, here's what's coming up again and again this season. Your breath, your body slowness and stillness and numbing mechanisms that we use. Mm-hmm. Which could be over consumption or busyness. So it's like.
Just hitting me in the face. Every single person who I'm talking to, it's like these are the things they're doing to get like well with themselves.
Amber Dunn: Yeah. I've been constantly telling myself my rest is a gift. My rest is a gift. It's a gift not only to myself, but others around me.
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Amber Dunn: My rest is a gift.
Audra Dinell: Hmm. I love that. [00:22:00]
Self-Abandonment and Personal Growth
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Audra Dinell: Okay, so your intention this year is no more self abandonment? Yes, queen. Oh my gosh. When you said that, I was like, say less. I feel that. What's that look like to you? What does that mean to you?
Amber Dunn: I actually told a girlfriend about that the other day at coffee, and she immediately just welled up with tears.
So evidently it's hitting people in a, in a spot where maybe it's in alignment with them too. So it was a couple of years ago that I went on this incredible trip with my husband. We're fortunate enough to travel a lot and it's time that you earn, right? It's time that you worked so hard to achieve and there is nobody that is telling me that I can't go or that I need to work harder to make up for it.
It is all my own self-imposed stories and beliefs. That if I'm not producing or I'm not helping others, then I'm not creating value. Mm. So we get home from this beautiful trip and our [00:23:00] flight got canceled. We drove through the night from Dallas to Wichita with two complete strangers who also didn't know one another.
And we hadn't slept because our plane prior was late. It was just a mess. Instead of getting home and realizing. Hey, I'm tired. I'm spent, I need to just be. I kicked it into overdrive and we got home at like 6:00 AM I mowed the lawn, I cleaned the whole house, like deep cleaned the whole house. I worked, I worked some more.
I worked some more. I taught a group fitness class. I did all the things within that next like 24 to 48 hours that I did not hardly sleep a wink.
Audra Dinell: Wow.
Amber Dunn: And so what happened that following day is I was sitting in meditation thinking, oh, go me. I am sitting in meditation. I'm taking it easy. I'm not abandoning myself.
And at that point I was asking for help slowing down, and then the lights started flickering and buzzing and I'm like, [00:24:00] that's weird. There's a light bulb that's going out, but my eyes are closed. Whatever. I'll deal with it later. Add it to my list. I was doubled down like 10 minutes later, vomiting uncontrollably.
I couldn't walk. I went numb in the face. I went deaf in the ear. Fast forward two years later, it ended up being something called Labyrinthitis that is a virus that attacks your ear. But what it meant was I literally asked for help slowing down, and this thing came and whacked me over the head and put me out for weeks.
Audra Dinell: Wow.
Amber Dunn: I mean, it was a life changing situation and experience and I'm still dealing with some of the repercussions of it. But. The no more self abandonment piece comes into play because I thought in those moments that I had to do all the things for everybody else. Why did I mow the lawn? Because I was worried about what the neighbors would think.
Why did I clean the house? Because I was worried that if somebody would just show up [00:25:00] unannounced, which side note, nobody really does. I wanted to make sure it was good. Like I'm doing all of these things for things that are outside and people and opinions that are outside of me.
And it literally cost me, my health.
So it's taken me a good two years to really unwind from those pieces of me that are constantly on the go, constantly trying to perform, constantly trying to outpace everybody else, create value, because in that. I'm abandoning myself.
Audra Dinell: Mm-hmm.
Amber Dunn: It doesn't mean that I can't be an incredible team member and partner and aunt and all the things still, but I'm just doing it in a little different way and it's uncomfortable at times.
Audra Dinell: Mm-hmm.
Amber Dunn: But this year, if I'm gonna be the most true version of me mm-hmm. And the best version of me mm-hmm. I cannot abandon my needs. For rest my needs for play, my needs for joy and [00:26:00] creativity and connection.
Audra Dinell: Mm-hmm.
Amber Dunn: I'm not willing to give any of that up.
Audra Dinell: Mm-hmm.
Amber Dunn: For anything.
Audra Dinell: What does that mean to your work life? Do you get worried that that means. Your production will change, or what does that mean for your ambition? And I'm asking you if you wanna answer this because this is always where I land, is like if I slow down, if I give into this like eudemonia, this joy, this zest for life, if I give into creativity and play and being, what does that mean for what I want to do in the world?
Amber Dunn: It's such a good question and I think it's largely dependent upon the individual, but from my perspective, that's where the operating from a sense of deep knowing and trusting in whatever [00:27:00] higher power you believe in mm-hmm. Is critical.
Audra Dinell: Mm-hmm.
Amber Dunn: And it's not. Like if I had to picture it, it doesn't, it doesn't look or feel like shoving these things away or pushing them away.
It's not in resistance. It's actually like just opening up your palm and all the things are there and they're still gonna be there and they're still gonna swirl, but they'll settle and they'll land gently or they'll just slowly kind of fall away.
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Amber Dunn: And for me, what that has meant with my work is I, I actually am busier than ever, like, busier.
I don't like to glorify the word busy, but I have more opportunities. How about that? I have more opportunities than ever in multiple facets of this one wildlife that I'm loving to live. And it's so far working out.
Audra Dinell: Hmm. I love that idea. And I feel like there's so much hope in that idea and [00:28:00] trust, self-trust, that's the word I'm looking for.
Mm-hmm. And if I take care of me, if I love myself so well, if I pour into me and don't abandon myself, only good things will come.
Amber Dunn: Yeah.
Audra Dinell: And I love the visual of like holding things loosely because it's like the things that aren't good or great, maybe even can then fall. Mm. To make space for the great things
Amber Dunn: and those things that fall away might create opportunity for others.
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Amber Dunn: So that I think sometimes feels really yummy too.
Audra Dinell: I agree. Okay.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Audra Dinell: To wrap this up, sad. I don't want it to end. I know. I think we would both highly, highly recommend this book.
Amber Dunn: Oh yeah.
Audra Dinell: Add it to your two B red list Until then, what question could listeners sit with after listening to this episode?
Amber Dunn: The question that I have loved [00:29:00] asking myself. In the world of radical honesty, in the world of no more self abandonment in the world of showing up and trying to extract all the pleasures that life has to give. Is can I have,
can I have help cleaning? Can I have some time to rest? Can I have a play date? Can I have dinner with you? Can I have you over for book club? Can I have? And so, in that, there are, I think, embedded some additional questions, which is. What's here that supports where I'm going, what's here? That doesn't support where I'm going.
And along that way, can I have?
Audra Dinell: Mm. And who's the right person to ask? Right. Because sometimes it is a friend. Can I have
Amber Dunn: Uhhuh
Audra Dinell: dinner with you? Sometimes it's just yourself. Yeah. Can I have rest? That's something you ask yourself.
Amber Dunn: Mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: Thank you. That's beautiful. [00:30:00] Thank you. Thanks for being here.
Amber Dunn: Thanks for being here.
Aw, thanks
Audra Dinell: for having me. You're welcome. Thanks for
Amber Dunn: sharing.