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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Wizards podcast presented by Fabrica5. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster, Poobah, Senator, Pagoda, and Grinder, and our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some bourbon, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs.
So take this as your 142nd official invitation to join us. and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Come and meet us here once a week. We're going to smoke a New World cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating. We review the long history of and the French influence on our cigar, we discuss bourbon that's bottled and bond, and we hear clips from another podcast putting lounge lizards and other types of cigar smokers on blast, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours.
So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar and enjoy as we pair 10 years old Henry McKenna Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey With the Casdagli Brothers of the Sabre in Brave Pyramidi. A Dominican Pyramidi on the pod [00:01:00] tonight. It's called the Casdagli Brothers of the Sabre in Brave. It's a 53 ring gauge cigar by six and a half inches long.
And boys, this cigar was blended by Henrik Kellner Jr. The one and only. Who you might know from his father's long history, Henrik Kellner Sr. Blending for Davidoff for many, many years. And he also, I believe Rooster was blending for Davidoff for a period of times, and then he's off to his own operation now, the Dominican Republic.
And this cigar comes from him and out of his factory.
**Rooster:** Smells nice.
**Grinder:** It does smell nice. It smells like very rich. It smells like barnyardy. Is this Dominican you said?
**Gizmo:** It's Dominican.
**Poobah:** No, it smells rich.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys. Let's cut this thing. So we're going on the cold draw on the wrapper.
It's a hearty cigar in the hand. Definitely packed.
**Poobah:** What are the dimensions here? Is this like [00:02:00] 51? 53 by six and a half. 53. Yeah.
**Grinder:** Definitely getting that DF. That dried fruit.
**Rooster:** Hmm. I thought just, oh yeah. Dominican flavor.
**Gizmo:** That's what I thought he meant too. I thought you meant Dominican flavor. Cold draw is very nice.
I'm
**Grinder:** ready. All right, boys.
**Gizmo:** Let's light this thing. The Casdagli. Brothers of the Sabre in Brave. Again, it's a Pyramiddy. Fifty three ring gauge cigar by six and a half inches long. Again, this is from the Dominican Republic, out of Kellner's factory. Nice on the light.
**Pagoda:** It's a wide open draw for me.
**Gizmo:** Mm hmm. I'm getting a little bit of a salty thing on the light.
Very smooth, though. How long have you had this? Probably about four to six weeks. [00:03:00]
**Grinder:** I think it's very smooth. I think it's definitely, at least on the light, medium to full. Retro hail is, I'm not sure what I'm getting in the retro hail yet. It's kind of amorphous. I'm not really sure what I'm getting yet.
**Gizmo:** I agree with you on that.
Actually, the retro is a little weird. For sure.
**Grinder:** It's hard to put my thumb on it.
**Poobah:** I'm not going to judge it until it cools down, you know. I like the aroma on the foot. The aroma on the foot
**Gizmo:** is
**Grinder:** actually
**Poobah:** It's
**Gizmo:** really nice. So the wrapper on this cigar is Ecuadorian and the binder and filler are both Dominican.
Do you feel this is complex on the light?
**Senator:** I feel like I'm getting faintly a lot of different flavors. I'm just trying to pinpoint them. Like some of the dried fruit that that grinder mentioned early, I get a bit of, I also get a bit of a floral note. Yeah. Which I'm very surprised by. And then there's like some faint nuttiness or maybe faint cocoa.
There's like something that's like richer than [00:04:00] those like kind of fruit and floral notes that is present at like the in the very background.
**Gizmo:** Would you say at right now that the flavors are muddled? Is that what you're trying to say?
**Pagoda:** Yeah. They're developing.
**Senator:** Yeah. I, I think, I think more developing cause you know, for me, a lot of times on the light and you know, Poobah teed this up perfectly because you know, he said, I'm going to wait till it cools down.
I feel like on a light when the cigar is really hot, sometimes the flavors, it just needs to cool in temperature for the flavors to kind of get more pronounced. So I'm not sure that I would say it's muddled, but what I'm at least encouraged by is there's complexity in that I'm picking up a number of different things and just trying to place them, which to me is a good sign to start any cigar.
**Poobah:** Yeah, it's not, it's the like opposite of a cocoa bomb. It's kind of a little bit floral. It's a little bit sweet maybe. And there's a little bit of pepper in there, but that just could, could be cause it's early on a little hot still, but I I'm I'm the jury's out for me. I I'm, I'm liking what I'm tasting so far.[00:05:00]
It's you guys know, I'm a, I'm a big Dominican. I like Dominican scars. You know, I, I really do. Um, so I mean, my, my palate leans that way.
**Gizmo:** There is like a creaminess to it that I'm getting in the middle of my tongue. I want to say citrus, but I just think it's kind of got like a, it's like almost like a soury type of cream in the middle of my tongue, but I don't think it's citrus, but it has that kind of citrus sour.
**Senator:** I mean, it's funny you say that just because I feel like there are a lot of Davidoff cigars that have this like sour cream type note. And you talking about he used to blend for Davidoff, like that would track perfectly with kind of the flavor profile of a lot of cigars that he's probably been involved with.
**Gizmo:** So this cigar is about 19 bucks, comes in a box of 20. You can get for about 380. On various retailers so for 19 bucks. I think that's a fair price for this size cigar. Yeah, it's a pretty big cigar It's a lot of tobacco for [00:06:00] 19 bucks.
**Poobah:** Yeah rooster. It's a big cigar. Yeah Um, but not but it's it's it's it's it's a bellicose or a torpedo whatever you want to call it Great combustion so far the construction's good, too.
Yeah burning real nice, you know Very, you know, very nice. I think, I think it'll develop into
**Rooster:** something. It's a, it's a, it's a definitely a medium smoke. It's not, it's not that light body to me.
**Gizmo:** But it's smooth. Yeah. Like it's, I'm not getting bite though. I'm getting a little bite
**Grinder:** in the, in the finish.
**Senator:** I'm not getting much of a bite, but I do think it, it leans even medium full.
There's a lot of flavor in this cigar.
**Poobah:** Yeah, the, the finish is, is, it's not extremely long, but it's medium long. Yeah. You know, it, it hangs around in the palette a little bit, which is good. I actually really like, I'm trying to figure it out. Like I'm just [00:07:00] contemplating
**Rooster:** it. I'm like, I'm trying to figure it out.
The flavor notes are different than any other, like a lot of other Dominican cigars, right? It's unlike, you don't really get that floral note in a Dominican cigar. They're either like chocolate bombs or, you know, different. This is just,
**Senator:** or heavy cedar, even yeah, I agree. That's why when I first got a floor, no, it like confused me.
It was hard
**Rooster:** to kind of figure out what are you, what notes are you getting? Because you kind of have this preconceived notion that it's a Dominican cigar. So you're like, okay, it's going to be like a, it's going to, it's going to fit this flavor profile. And then that, then you smoke this, you light this and it's, and it's not that.
So that's your point.
**Senator:** Blind, you would never guess. This is Dominican tobacco. Yeah.
**Poobah:** I would guess it was some sort of blend of something that I couldn't figure out.
**Senator:** Right.
**Poobah:** It's not giving me that familiar, like totally familiar Dominican flavor profile that I associate with the Davidoff. [00:08:00] So I'm still, I'm sort of sorting through it.
**Pagoda:** I'm getting a lot more of the sweetness now. You know, and I'm trying to decipher whether it's, it feels like this light cocoa, which I think, um, I'd experienced earlier, like when you're taking the air in, it's really, it just envelops my whole mouth with a little bit of sweetness and then moves into something a little different.
I'm really enjoying it.
**Senator:** I'm impressed just because honestly, I mean, looking at the band on this, I really hate the band. It just looks incredibly gimmicky. Even the name of this cigar just sounds ridiculous to me. So I had really low expectations coming in, but I'm pleasantly surprised at the flavor.
**Rooster:** The band looks cheesy.
**Senator:** Yeah, it does. Well,
**Poobah:** it's a, it's a gaudy band.
**Senator:** But not in a good, like not even gaudy, not done well. You know, like there are gaudy bands that like, actually you're like, if that's what you're going for mission accomplished, if they're trying to be gaudy, [00:09:00] like this is a bad attempt at it. I feel like
**Poobah:** a little ostentatious, maybe
**Pagoda:** very veiny.
I, in fact, I was actually surprised when, uh, give mentioned that it was 19 bucks. Uh, I haven't really heard of the cigar. Never heard anyone talk about it, but really pleasantly surprised. Smokin that, for sure.
**Gizmo:** So this, this came off of Lizard, uh, recommendations from our listeners. We had a couple folks email asking when we were gonna do a Casdagli, and then I specifically had two folks recommend the Brothers of the Sabre.
Uh, so I went with the, the Brave in the Pyramid because it was reviewed pretty well online and it's a bigger ring gauge cigar. So I know we had that discussion. That's true too. So let's not
**Senator:** forget Tuxedo Timmy did say that whenever you pick a larger ring gauge, it just so happens to be a bellicose or a torpedo.
So it's narrower. Yeah. But this one's a 53
**Gizmo:** though. So it's a little bigger,
**Poobah:** but I'm giving this, I'm giving this a chance to develop. I think it needs a little time. I mean, if you
**Rooster:** saw this cigar on the shelf, you [00:10:00] walk into a humidor. You will not pick this. Not a chance. I will not pick the cigar up. You know, not knowing anything about it.
You, if there's nothing about the cigar that would make you say, Oh, I want to smoke that cigar.
**Grinder:** It's like, do you want to
**Rooster:** commit like two and a half hours to a cigar that has this label on it? Or, you know, when you don't know anything about it,
**Grinder:** It's as an unimpressive as those Lucy cigars. You get like a CI event that they just toss into the bag.
That's true. You know, it looks exactly, that's what it looked like. Even the wrap, even the cello wrapper and like, The, the, the sticker on it was just, it looked a little cheap, you know?
**Poobah:** Right. Like if I was at a charity golf event and this was in the bag, I would have just thrown it in the fucking garbage or given it away.
You know what I mean? I would have been, you know, the year at charity golf event, you get four cigars. You're like, great. You're like, here, take them. I wouldn't have looked twice at this. I mean, Is it, I'm, I'm good. I want to give the cigar a chance. It's, it's, it's not expressing [00:11:00] itself. I think in its full so far.
So good. So far. So good. I like, I like how it's starting. There's nothing bad about it just yet, but I want to give it, I want to give it a shot. I
**Senator:** mean, the funny thing to your point in Pagoda, call this out, Pagoda mentioned veiny. I mean, even just the rapper, the cigar is very rustic and veiny. And I mean, there are not invisible like for a guy that was affiliated with Davidoff, you would think that.
There'd be an expectation that he would want to maintain some like really aggressive production quality and I don't think if you even, this was unbanded that this is a particularly nice cigar to look at.
**Poobah:** I agree. I agree. I agree, too. However, It's not handsome, as Poobah would say. No, it's not handsome, but if you look at everybody's burn, it's pretty good.
Yeah, it's burning well. Construction's good.
**Pagoda:** The smoke up, the draw is fantastic. Yeah. It's tracking nicely. I'm getting,
**Poobah:** I'm getting more cream through the [00:12:00] retro hell. I'm getting more cream. You know, it's cooled down. I'm about a half inch in and it's settling in and let's see, maybe it turns into a really good thing.
**Grinder:** I get like getting, this is going to be bizarre, which is not surprising for me, but like I'm getting sourdough on the retro hair.
**Poobah:** Oh, I totally agree.
**Grinder:** Yeah. Yeah. That's also, there's some, there's some,
**Poobah:** there's some dessert notes in this. No doubt. Like it's cooled down for me. I'm getting cream, a little bit of bread.
I'm getting like a little sourdough.
**Gizmo:** This might be as crazy as Grindr. Thinks his was, but mine's probably crazier. I'm getting, I, I, I wanna say like grassy type of like earth or soil or something, which is, I obviously, I don't eat grassy soil, but , you know, there's a flavor that's kind of like, we, we can't verify that
**Audio Clip:** That's what do, I don't know why you put those
**Poobah:** tickets out. If any of us would, it's probably gizmo. I don't get a grassy cohiba thing. Not a cohiba thing, [00:13:00] but it's like, it's,
**Grinder:** it's like an earthy, you know, when you, when you just cut the grass and it's like wet and it, and that aroma is like permeating. And that's kind of what it's like, but not like cut grass, but like.
The ground of the cut grass.
**Pagoda:** So this is different from
**Grinder:** petrichor. Very different from petrichor. Yes. That's, that's more earthy. This one. Yeah. No,
**Poobah:** I think that's a good, actually, I think that's a good call out. It does have a little bit of this under a different type of grassy note. Then it's not Cohiba grass, but there's something like that.
Yeah. It's not that grassy. It's like somewhere in between barnyard and grass.
**Grinder:** Moss.
**Poobah:** It could be Moss.
**Gizmo:** I'm kidding. All right, boys. Let's talk about the, the amazing history of Casdagli's cigars. They have quite a cool history and there's actually a really interesting tie to Cuba that I was unaware of.
Casdagli cigars was founded in 1997, but the history of the brand starts in the 1800s when the Casdagli family started trading grain, [00:14:00] tobacco, cotton, and the breeding of Arabian horses. The continuation of the family tradition and luxury goods trade was demonstrated by the adoption of Colossus of Rhodes as the family trading symbol on the brand logo.
The original production of Casdagli cigars in the 1990s was produced in Cuba. 100 percent hand rolled by the master torcedor, Carlos Valdez Mosquera, simply one of the best there's ever been, they say. The whole production was very, very small, only 500 to 1, 000 cigars a month, and was only sold in the London market.
Their own label cigars were made for some of the top establishments, including the Rib Room at Carleton Park Tower, Capital Hotel. The Castaguay cigars also became the choice for certain celebrities and members of the Saudi Arabian Peninsula. Royal family who we know love Cuban cigars on Carlos's retirement in 2013.
The search for a new producer led to the discovery of the newly opened Kellner boutique factory. Of course, that's as we discussed, kind of run that timeline when they started to leave Davidoff operated [00:15:00] by Hendrick Kellner, Jr. Of the famous Kellner family of master blenders. This long term partnership has led to the launch into development.
Of four cigar lines of Casdagli cigars. Two of their lines are handcrafted in Costa Rica at a boutique factory called IGM in San Jose. And they use a special Mejorado blend of Via Casdagli. And, uh, they're created in cooperation with yet another Costa Rican boutique factory called Tabacos de Costa Rica in Puriscal.
The aim is they say is to offer. Unique and consistently quality cigars. They definitely got the unique parts so far. There's no doubt about that. That delivered the sense of luxury, elegance, and tradition. And they say you can find this all over the world. This is interesting too. It used to be called bespoke cigars.
It was rebranded in spring, 2018 to celebrate the recent growth from a regional. Production to a truly worldwide brand reuniting Casdaglia family trading symbol. Uh, as we said, the Colossus of Rhodes with the family name, they reestablished [00:16:00] and what they say is they deliver luxury, elegance, and tradition.
This is interesting on the Cuban side of this. During January of 1951, Emanuel Theodore Casdaglia representing the Eucor band. UK Board of Trade met with the Cuban Ambassador, along with the Cuban trade delegation, primarily to seal a trade of over 5 million tons of Cuban sugar unexpectedly. The Cuban ambassador asked Emmanuel whether the UK would agree to a resumption of imports of Havana cigars, which obviously at that time had ceased completely.
The Cubans wanted import licenses granted in the region of around $2 million in today's value, and, uh, they, they started importing. Uh, Cuban cigars into the London market again for the first time. I guess after all the shit went down with the, uh, Bay of Pigs and the other issues that were Communism. Yeah, communism.
Exactly. So yeah, well, very, very long history there. And they have a ton of cigars. I'm just going to go through some of the wines. They have their traditional Casdagli wine. They have a line called Basilica, [00:17:00] The Cabinet Selection, Club Mareva, Cypher 3311, Du Bois Line, Daughters of the Wind, Via Casdagli, Petite, Kellner Boutique Factory, and IGM Boutique Factory, and of course, the one we're smoking tonight is the Brothers of the Sabre.
The Brothers of the Sabre, and I'm going to read you a quote from Jeremy Casdagli, he said, I have long been fascinated by The Napoleon's attempt to conquer Europe right from my very early years at a prep school at the age of eight when I was discovered Discovering that the Napoleon's grand army was largely responsible for spreading cigar smoking across across the continent I set forth to honor those generals on all sides that were famous for their love of glory and tobacco This specific line honors a guy named marshal Michel knee of imperial france who was christened by napoleon You As the brave, this braves, the bravest of the brave, exactly.
So that's who this honors. And that's who's on this band.
**Poobah:** I mean, that's a detriment, [00:18:00] um, for me, uh, so whoever, whoever came up with this marketing narrative is, I, I think it's a flawed narrative. So, cause this is all. I mean, this is hyperbole. Let's face it. I mean, you know, we're talking about, uh, honoring Napoleon and, and the generals he may have or may not have smoked cigars with.
And then, and no, um, not appealing. Uh, I have
**Grinder:** to second, I have to second this sentiment
**Poobah:** not appealing. Yeah. I mean the, you know, not to get too political. The French, the French. Let the Germans walk up the sh and just take over. This is the truth. And wait, wait, we went from
**Grinder:** the eight, the late 1800s to 1940.
I mean, we can,
**Poobah:** we can edit, we can edit that, but I'm just saying it's, it's not, [00:19:00] are these people we honor is Napoleon, someone we honor. He's a fascinating figure, but he's, I don't think the movie didn't even do well
No With the with the River Phoenix his brother Oh Joaquin Phoenix. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's right I'm thinking of Benjamin Franklin. They couldn't even bring that to life in a compelling way. No one cared
**Senator:** Certainly not in America. I mean the frustrating thing for me is just like how many French people are actually smoking these cigars?
I don't understand like creating an entire, like marketing narrative around a market that probably is not interested in this cigar. I don't get it.
**Poobah:** This is, this is ridiculous. These links that they're trying to make back 300 years. We just lost the sponsor.
**Pagoda:** I'm sorry.
**Poobah:** No, we don't need that kind of stuff. I mean, come on, Napoleon, French generals.[00:20:00]
Come on, this is Dominican tobacco. Let's call it what it is. I also, if
**Rooster:** I'm wrong, it's the brand history. It's it is what it is. What are you going to do? What would they were making
**Poobah:** cigars from Napoleon? Yeah, it's not a historical title. It's
**Audio Clip:** fiction.
**Rooster:** It's total fiction. This is all made up by a marketing person.
The founder was influenced by Napoleon. At his prep school. At his prep school in eighth grade he's talking about it. Come
**Pagoda:** on! This is lunacy. The question becomes, when did the warriors find the hour to smoke?
**Grinder:** Yeah, that's also like, come on. Really?
**Poobah:** This is the most unbelievable narrative I've ever heard.
I'm gonna rip it one. I mean, come on. How do you like the cigar though?
**Pagoda:** It's okay.
**Gizmo:** I think it's pretty good.
**Pagoda:** I think it's good. I'm enjoying it.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, I think it's a really tasty Dominican cigar. I think it's different. I don't think that there's anything that we've smoked that I would put this next to, as far as flavor profile.
I think it's, [00:21:00] I think it's kind of standing on its own as, as of right now. I think it's very, very good. There's this, there's
**Rooster:** like a sweet note that kind of binds everything together, which is kind of different than other cigars.
**Poobah:** Yeah. I mean, maybe. Poop us down to a six after that Napoleon, Napoleon story.
No, no. I mean, there's like some things that are coming out, but the, I mean, yeah. Did the narrative ruin some of it, some of it for me, you know, the inspiration for this.
**Pagoda:** So marketing is so important regardless.
**Poobah:** Well, it's gotta be credible, believable, durable, uh, and That's not,
it's, it's lies.
**Gizmo:** So speaking of Davidoff, I know that we've been talking about this cigar [00:22:00] quite a bit on the chat. I wanted to ask you guys what you think of it. The new Davidoff cigar, the Grand Cru Diademus Finus, uh, which were created in the spirit of Bordeaux wine, uh, made with cask aged filler as a, uh, as the fourth and final release in Davidoff's Cigar History Rerolled Series, which is bringing back discontinued sizes for a limited run.
It's a really, really interesting cigar, 50 ring gauge by six and three quarters inches, double tapered on both ends, clad in light Connecticut seed wrapper from Ecuador over Dominican binder, very similar to this in its makeup. And they're saying it's a mild to medium bodied cigar. So did you guys purchase any of or it's on, it's on order.
It's on order. So nobody's had one yet.
**Senator:** We're all looking at rooster.
**Poobah:** Yeah. I didn't. I don't, I don't know about that order. I sent you guys a
**Rooster:** picture of it, not the order, but I sent it, you know, when it, when it was introduced. It looks interesting. I'll be happy to share. [00:23:00] I'm excited. Actually, when
**Senator:** that, when that came out, I said, uh, I said, you put aside your next social security check.
I thought you'd be the first to buy
**Rooster:** it. And I did. You said, you said, I'm
**Senator:** not interested
**Rooster:** because of the shape. Yeah. So what changed? No, I mean, it's, it's a new cigar. I mean, you know, we'll give it a shot. I figured maybe we could even do it on the pod.
**Senator:** We, we knew you, we knew you better than you knew yourself.
There was no way that you weren't going to buy that.
**Grinder:** That's a new, it's a, his point. It's a new, it's a new, just try it. What's nice too, is this is, this
**Gizmo:** is influenced by the French as well. Bordeaux wine. See if there's another, I can see if there's a Napoleon tie in here.
**Grinder:** There's a big year for France right now.
They got the Olympics. Summer, they got the tour de France going on right now. They had elections. That was a disaster.
**Gizmo:** So they're saying that the motivation for the cask age tobacco stems from Zeno Davidoff's passion for Bordeaux wines. The wines blending method serves served as an inspiration behind the [00:24:00] creation of the Grand Cru cigars back in 1946 Bordeaux, as we've talked about, Senator has mentioned is made using three primary grapes and Grand Cru's filler blend consists of three different Dominican tobaccos.
The key leaf is San Vicente Seco. The, uh, cigars were aged for six months in Premier Grand Cru Class A red wine cast.
**Poobah:** That, that's interesting. It's pretty cool. And not to sound like a fan boy, but what you get from Davidoff is very interesting oftentimes. And we've strayed away from that, you know, that brand and we've come back and we've strayed away and we've come back.
And. Always come back. We kind of always end up coming back. I'll tell you that, that
**Gizmo:** line is never rated, I think, lower than a 9 or a high 8 on this podcast. We've done like 10 or 12 of them, Davinoffs, and it's, everything's been, I believe, above an 88
**Senator:** How much does that cigar retail [00:25:00] stick? It's like 257 a
**Poobah:** piece.
That's a little too much. That's a problem. That's a problem, but. They do make, they do make a good, they do make a good cigar and, and, and, you know, the regular catalog stuff, those expressions, there's a lot of good expressions within that. And I think that with the Cuban prices going up, we've, you know, when, when we've seen the Davidoff prices going up as well, Davidoff prices going up, but there's also an accessibility issue with Cubans.
Um, that's just, there's, there's. Some additional barriers, not a ton, but more
**Gizmo:** than there have been in the past. And you can also walk in a store here in the States and buy a single of this. You don't have to order a box of, you know, 10, 20, 25, whatever it is, you know,
**Poobah:** correct.
**Gizmo:** So the barrier to entry, you know, to try one of these cigars and see if it works for you.
I mean, certainly this is a high end luxury product. I mean, when, when you're buying a cigar, the six and three quarters inches long. That at 57, like [00:26:00] that's a special cigar. That's not a random Tuesday afternoon. No.
**Poobah:** And there's a lot of guys out there who maybe smoke one cigar a week and maybe for them, you know, that special cigar a week is their special time.
And they do that, you know, You know, once a week or maybe twice a week, and that's, and it's, you know, time well spent time, beautifully, time beautifully. Yes. What is it again? Beautifully filled. Filled. Okay. Yeah. I mean, not bad marketing time. Beautifully filled. We like 40 percent of their stuff. No, more than that.
Probably more. I would say more, more like 60 percent more. Maybe it's more like 60 percent of their stuff. Yeah, we back up and we like and buy. Um, I don't think I've ever had a dad. I don't like, I mean,
**Gizmo:** well,
**Poobah:** yeah,
**Gizmo:** me too.
**Poobah:** I mean, well, Well, there's I've had specific,
**Gizmo:** the toll isn't specific lines that didn't work for me, but I think it comes down to price
**Poobah:** versus value, you know, sometimes the ROI isn't [00:27:00] the best as much as we smoke, but I think for, you know, if you're, if you're a once, if you smoke one cigar a week, why not, why not smoke the best cigar you can smoke?
And Davidoff fits that bill, I think. And a lot of Cubans fit that bill. Um, and a lot of, and certainly Padron and some, and some of the Fuente stuff really fits that bill. Yeah. You know, because not everybody is, is smoking a cigar every night. They don't have time, you know, or smoking multiple cigars a day.
**Senator:** I think to the points you've made on Davidoff, just two things I would say. I mean, one, your, your comment about Cuban cigar price increases has to have helped Davidoff. Absolutely. I think so. I mean, because I think back to years ago when we were buying Cuban cigars for like 10 a stick, and you would see some of these Davidoffs come out, these like limited editions at like 40, 50.
And That was so outrageous at that time to even think about. Where now, I mean, look at the price of some of the Cubans we review. The Aliados or some of these cigars that are 50, [00:28:00] 60 a pop.
**Rooster:** Sure.
**Senator:** And so, you know, you have to, to Gizmo's point, buy a box of that. You just buy one of these, you can get a single.
That had to be helpful for them.
**Rooster:** Makes it more palatable. Yeah, it really
**Senator:** does. And the other thing on Davidoff, I mean, I don't think any of us have ever felt Davidoff doesn't make good cigars or a good quality product. I think my frustration has been and still remains that they, they sometimes put out gimmicky stuff that is actually not anything other than marketing.
And there's not really substance behind it. Like the entire Chinese new year line, when that comes out every year, I've yet, and like an idiot, I would buy one every year thinking maybe I'd find a good one. I've, I haven't had a single Chinese new year release of theirs that I thought was a great Davidoff.
**Poobah:** I agree.
**Senator:** And so it's just stuff like that when they go that route, you know, I would love for them to just like zero in on, if you're going to produce a limited release cigar, just focus on the stuff that there's a actual palette for. [00:29:00] Like you smoked those. I don't even know who that's meant to please. I don't know who that would really appeal to.
**Rooster:** I think it's kind of catered towards. Like collectors who kind of collect those boxes. They're very ornate boxes
**Senator:** for the price.
**Rooster:** Yeah. I mean, it has to be right. I mean, for the price and yeah, you're right. I mean, most of them are not that great.
**Poobah:** But I think that's the, for me, with my experience with Davidoff and it's been relatively extensive, I've smoked a lot of their stuff concerning how long we were involved with Davidoff.
Uh, uh, I think the Chinese new year, those, those new year boxes have Disappointing for the past, I don't know, eight or eight years. Six, seven years. There's been few, but then there are these other things that come out that blow your mind, oh my God. The, the Chef's Edition. The chefs, you know. Yeah. You know, the Chef's Edition, the Millennium Lenara.
The Millennium Len. I, I just got a box of those I was able to source and the [00:30:00] Maduro, the Ino, the Maduro and Ribo, DOA and the Dominican. Yeah. There's so many and, and, and the, and, and. A, a cigar that I consider at a great PI price point, which you guys, uh, that which Eddie turned us on to the, uh, the, the Beso.
The Oh yeah. The Churchill Boso. Oh yeah. What a, what a cigar that is, what a, for what it is. It's absolutely magnificent. And I had an, I had one of those late hours, the, uh. Slim Panatella. Yeah. The little
**Gizmo:** ones.
**Poobah:** What a great, what a great little cigar. They're getting
**Gizmo:** better as they rest. They don't come off the truck as good as the, the Winston Churchill boso.
The late hours just need a little bit of rest and the hum order come down. Yeah. But they, they're doing much better than they did initially.
**Poobah:** Had one the other night. It was great. Yeah. Most of their stuff is good. It's really good. They're really
**Rooster:** well
**Poobah:** constructed, you know. Um, I mean, and you give them to people.
You give them to. I, I, I gave out a couple, um. of the, the, the, those, [00:31:00] those short bellicosas, the Churchills with the white label and they go, Oh my God, this is a great cigar. I gave away one of those little late hour Panatellas to somebody who doesn't like a big, huge cigar. What a cigar. Yeah. This is so good.
So. Um, I think for, for the, even for the novice, some of their smaller smokes are really is a great way to introduce somebody into cigar smoking and give them a good experience. Um, so again, try not to sound like a fan boy of Davidoff. It's hard not to deny them. I
**Senator:** agree, I think the stuff that we don't smoke much of that they make, some of the milder cigars that they have, I mean, I know Rooster likes the Grand Cru, I'm not really big on that.
I
**Rooster:** like the Grand Cru number three out of all of them. Okay. That's it. Even the Grand Cru number two, I'm not a fan of. What's the three size? Is it like a It's like a Corona.
**Senator:** Corona. Is the Anniversario milder than the Signature line? [00:32:00] It is. Yeah. Like, I don't, none of us ever smoke that. Um, I think that's too mild for really any of us.
And then even like the, the Escurio, the Yamasa, that whole line, I mean, none of us regularly pick up those.
**Rooster:** Um, the Yamasa, I don't mind. It's okay. I like it better than the Escu Kuer and the, uh, the Nicaragua cigar. And, uh, they used to make it great, the 7 0 2 series. Uh oh yeah. Yeah. Grinder loved that.
Grinder used to like that. And uh, that's a good cigar. Yeah, I mean, I wish they continued that.
**Grinder:** I actually like the, the, the, the anniversary. The anniversary. I kind of like it. It's not so bad. It is very, very light though. Um, but it still has like a lot of that. You know, Davidoff flavor, just at a lighter profile and I'm, and I, I used to, I still love that Nicaraguan, like box pressed Toro and the Robusto.
Those are really, we
**Gizmo:** haven't done Nicaraguan Davidoff yet.
**Grinder:** It's a good, we have to, we have to bring one of those in my [00:33:00] view. The
**Gizmo:** next one we have coming up is the late hour and Robusto, which is one that I've had for a while. That, well, that's, that's a good,
**Poobah:** that's one that I, I discovered, um, when, when you guys.
Discovered the, um, Churchill Churchill. And, uh, you know, I went and I grabbed this single, uh, of the late hour and I said, Oh my God, these are, or maybe I bought a four pack. I can't remember, but whatever it was. And I was like, you know what? I actually liked this better in Robusto
**Gizmo:** than the Churchill, then the
**Poobah:** Churchill.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. I've had, I've had Hit or miss experiences, like, not that anything was bad, but just preferring one over the other. I think it's just kind of as my palate's gone on this journey, so I'm, I haven't had a Rab Robusto in a while. I'm looking forward to trying it on the pod. Yeah, I'm gonna save it. It's
**Rooster:** a bit shorter commitment as well.
Sure. You know when you're doing the RAB Robusto. But I think overall, the Davidoff Millennium series is a home run. Oh, [00:34:00] yeah. I mean, everything other than the Toro is, is a boost. Oh, it's pretty good. It's pretty, pretty awesome. The pyramid is phenomenal. Even the little petite Corona is awesome. Overpriced, but yes.
Overpriced. Yes. If you can get them at a decent price, sometimes like the bulk orders on, I have, it's one of the best boutique Corona. You get it like around 10 bucks a stick. It's I think it's somebody, but they're like,
**Gizmo:** they're like 1695. So yeah, they're expensive for that little cigar. Crazy for that. And compare that to the Winston Churchill bellicose.
So, which is like half the price of that or less. Yeah. All right, boys. We're coming to the end of the first third here on the Casdaglia brothers of the saber in brave the pyramid. What's everybody thinking? I really like it. It's still
**Rooster:** good. I mean, it hasn't really changed much, the same kind of flavor profile, but, uh, maybe picked up in strength a tad.
**Grinder:** Yeah, I, I, it's, it's, it's okay for me now. I think for me, I like the aroma much better than I like the taste. Um, and the, [00:35:00] The retrohale isn't really, you know, moving the needle as much as I had hoped.
**Rooster:** The aroma has been better than the taste throughout, for me. I actually really like the taste
**Gizmo:** of
**Rooster:** the
**Gizmo:** cigar.
I'm really enjoying It takes, it tastes like a little bitter to me. I don't know, maybe I'm not getting bitter. I've got bitter. Interesting. Maybe they're a little inconsistent. I got some bitter. Mine, mine is, is really creamy. It has a really interesting sour dough, sour cream type note to it. The retro is interesting, little floral, little salty.
I'm, I'm really digging it right now. What about you, Pagoda?
**Pagoda:** Yeah, so for me, I think, uh, it hasn't changed much, uh, I think every time I'm, you know, uh, drawing on the cigar, it's giving me some kind of sweetness, and it's definitely not cocoa, like I was thinking. I was trying to analyze what kind of sweetness it is, and then it just goes away.
And then, obviously, it develops into something, I, you know, I think you'd use the word barnyard ish kind of thing. Initially, and I think I get a little bit of that flavor [00:36:00] profile on the top of my palette and and then it just you know It it is creamy. It's like it's very smooth and creamy and and then it just it seems like a medium finish to me But it does envelope my whole palette Overall, yeah, I'm getting it's uh, I'm look I'm waiting for something more to happen or at least you know If the flavors become a little more distinctive, that'd be great.
So let's see how it progresses Yeah, I actually,
**Senator:** I like the flavor. I think at the end of the first third, it's gotten a little richer to me. Like I'm getting less of the floral notes that I was getting early on in the first third. Um, and even a bit less of the dried fruit. And there's like a, a little nuttiness that has kind of come into play that I think has made the flavor profile a little bolder or closer to what I would expect from Dominican tobacco.
I kind of like how it's transitioning a little bit. Um, I just hope that [00:37:00] I don't lose entirely that like dried fruit, fruit and floral notes. I, I want some complexity to maintain all the way through. So that's kind of the only question mark that I have at this point, but I think it's still off to a good start.
**Poobah:** Yeah. It's okay. I, I, I, I don't disagree with any of that commentary. I, I, but for me, it's a little flat. It's a little, it lacks. a little bit of complexity for me. It's slightly muddled, not totally. It's just, there's, there's nothing that's like standing out. That's that I'm kind of like, wow, or Ooh, it's kind of just there.
There's, it's approachable, it's smokable. Um, but for me, there's nothing blowing my hair back just yet, but, but not, it's not bad in any way. You know, it's, it's, it's good. It's there's a creamy and creaminess to it. It's getting harder and harder for me to pick out. It's getting a little creamier, [00:38:00] but it's harder and harder for me to pick out the stink notes in the cigar.
Do you take a different,
**Rooster:** like
**Poobah:** a
**Rooster:** different size would matter in this? Like, I wonder what, what other sizes. So there's only
**Gizmo:** one other size in this line. It's a Robusto. 50 ring gauge by a little under five inches long. They do have two sister cigars in the same line, brothers of the saber, the brothers of the saber for a dare.
And they have the same sizes, the pyramid that we're smoking 53 by six and a half. And the same or boost up 50 by a little under five. So there's only, there's really only two, two cigars in this line. There's just a sister to the, to the, I think this cigar would bring well
**Rooster:** in a Corona size. Maybe concentrated flavors, like what you were getting in the first, you know, in the beginning.
Yeah,
**Poobah:** right, right. It kind of doesn't stick a stake in the ground and say, this is what I am. You know, like this is what it is. It it's somewhat confusing in its delivery for me. Like it's marketing narrative. [00:39:00] Yeah. Like it's marketing narrative.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, let's talk about our pairing tonight. We have the Henry McKenna 10 years aged single barrel, Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey.
Bottled in bonds, so it's a 50 percent alcohol, 100 proof. Have you guys sipped this yet? I have, I've snuck it.
**Pagoda:** Same here, yeah.
**Gizmo:** Very nice, I'm drinking it neat. A little bit of heat through the, you know, going back down the back of your throat.
**Senator:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** But I don't hate it.
**Senator:** There was a bit of heat for me. Neat. I'm going to put a chip or two just to see if how this mellows out.
**Grinder:** I have a, I have a couple of chips in and it's still hot. Yeah. Agreed. There's a lot, there's
**Poobah:** a lot, there's some spice in there. There's cinnamon in there with maybe just a slight bit of vanilla in the background. And, um, not, you know, not untypical for, you know, for bourbon profile, but it just, it's not standing out, [00:40:00] but it's pretty good.
I mean, it's not, I'm not tasting this and saying I haven't tasted anything like this before. There's a little, there's a salty element to it. Yeah. With like kind of a little bit of minerality. So I think I, so far, I mean, I really liked it. I liked the spirit. Yeah, I think it's pretty good.
**Senator:** I get the same cinnamon that, that Poobah called out.
I do think ice helps, um, mellow it out a bit. It's a very full flavor. It is. It just like really envelops your palate. Um, I mean, this is definitely not something that I would pair with a lighter cigar. Um, it just got a long finish. I can't believe it. I'm talking and I'm just still tasting like my taste buds are like just going crazy right now.
It's a lot of flavor.
**Pagoda:** It's like one of those, remember the tequila thing, where it just feels all around your, your, you know, tongue, it's dripping on all sides and it just really does envelope you. Yeah, it's, it's really interesting.
**Poobah:** It's kind of salty and sweet, um, [00:41:00] but it's a little bit, it's a little bit hot.
It's a little bit, Which, which could be a merit for some bourbon drinkers. Um,
but I'm, I'm not, I'm not, not enjoying it. If I double night, double negative,
**Gizmo:** um, it's drinkable. I know. I think it's, I think it's actually pairing pretty well with the cigar. I like how it's kind of making some of the flavors pop in the cigar, namely the salty, um, Um, and I think the creaminess is actually working very well with the pairings.
So
**Poobah:** yeah, there is that background creaminess, right? It's kind of on the finish. It's, it's that spice up front. And then there's kind of this little bit of a creamy finish, but it's not huge.
**Gizmo:** The cinnamon might be clashing with the cigar a little bit, but I'm going to overlook that. I'm not going to jump, jump on that.
You know, it is what it is. So what do we know about Henry McKenna?
**Grinder:** Well, it's interesting. I'm holding the bottle and on the on the front of the bottle it says bottled in bond Which I thought I've never seen that on a on a whiskey bottle before but apparently it's it's it's fairly common.
**Gizmo:** It's a thing [00:42:00] Yeah, yeah, so that we've done one other bottle in bond.
I believe
**Grinder:** I think we yes now that you mentioned it I think that's right.
**Gizmo:** Is that the one your dad recommended? Calumet? I don't think so. That wasn't no that was that was just this Small batch. E. H. Taylor, maybe? Maybe it was E. H. Taylor Could be,
**Grinder:** that might, that might make sense. I think, so, for those listeners, um, that didn't hear that previous episode, the Bottled in Bond Act of 1897 stipulates that whiskeys designed with this nomenclature must be produced at the same distillery By the same distiller within the same distilling season.
Now since then, they've loosened up some of the parameters on like what season it's in and, and all this other stuff. Um, uh, even if it's spring or or fall, it doesn't matter. And then it must be aged for an additional four years in a federally bonded. So federally insured warehouse under federal government supervision, then cut and bottled at exactly 100 proof.
So that's bottled and bond. So this, this brand takes its name from the [00:43:00] founder, Henry McKenna, who was an Irish immigrant, came over, uh, to the United States, settled in Kentucky, got really, Interested in, in, in bourbon and, and, uh, started as his craft there. So he was born in, uh, uh, in Ireland in 1819. He immigrated to the us uh, after settling Kentucky in, in the late 1850s.
He took his love of whiskey, having brought it over from Ireland and began tweaking his own Irish whiskey West recipe in Kentucky. And one of the thing that that separated him out from all the other distillers in the region at the time was how. much of a stickler he was for cleanliness. So he was the, one of the only distillers that would literally clean the barrels and clean the vats with like soap and scrub it down and then sanitize it with, with boiling water.
Uh, whereas the other distillers were just whitewashing all the, all the, uh, all the equipment. Word has it that, that this guy's pension for age burden came from his commitment to sanitation. Like I said, he incorporated that [00:44:00] into the, into the distillers and the, what in the fermentation. tubes as well.
Prohibition hit this, this brand pretty hard. They didn't really, uh, survive after Prohibition and it was bought by Seagrams and then Seagrams then sold it to Heavenly Hill Distillery, which is, you know, so Henry McKenna is produced in the same distillery that also produces Elijah Craig, Larceny and Evan Williams.
So the guy that is sort of brought this brand back to life is a guy named Connor O'Driscoll, an Irishman, also Irish guy. He worked, um, at, uh, he was a manager. Basically managing all the facilities behind the scenes at Brown Foreman's workhorse distillery in Kentucky. Then he went to Woodford reserve and he was part of the Woodford reserve crew.
Um, and then he went to angels envy, uh, after angels envy, he, in 2019, he came, he came over to, uh, to, to McKenna. Cool. Yeah. This guy's been everywhere. He's been, he's been around all over. So I'd say they've won a lot of awards recently. [00:45:00] Um, since this guy has has come on, on board to the, to the team.
**Gizmo:** I really like the bourbon.
I, I think it's very delicious. Yeah. Me too. I
**Poobah:** mean, I like it.
**Senator:** I have to say, I, I, the more I drink this, the better it's getting. You know, we've had Ricky talk about this, like, a higher proof spirit like this, your palate definitely has to adjust. So I think for me, it was like a shock at first. Even with the eyes still a little bit of a shock and I think now my palate's adjusted and I'm appreciating I think the cinnamon while it's pronounced it's not like overpowering you can still get some of those other notes and that like creaminess which I never really associate with a bourbon is definitely present and and now I'm seeing like I'm not sure I agreed when Giz first said that.
This is pairing really well together. I'm now seeing it and I do think that this actually works really nicely together.
**Poobah:** Yeah, I would echo that. I mean, I, there is this creaminess. It's not huge, but on [00:46:00] the finish, there's a cream. There's this creaminess, um, with the spice up front and that's great. I think it's a merit in the spirit.
Again, not a, you know, not a bourbon expert, but learning more and more as we taste these.
**Pagoda:** It feels like everlasting finish.
**Poobah:** Yeah, the finish is very, very long. Finish is long. It's
**Pagoda:** really long. It really sticks around.
**Poobah:** That's a merit. It
**Pagoda:** is a merit.
**Poobah:** You don't drink it very fast.
**Pagoda:** I'm, I'm trying to drink them slower because I, I think I must have, uh, had a few larger sips and, you know, I felt the heat and I'm like, you know, how, like, when you feel it in your chest, I'm like, all right.
I think I'm just drinking a bit slower now.
**Senator:** I don't know. After I've had several sips. The finish for me now is long, but like just right.
**Gizmo:** I agree.
**Senator:** Where before it was like never ending. It felt like, and just too much, but now it's like the perfect length. I I'm like shocked how much I'm enjoying this right now.
**Gizmo:** I told, I'm totally with you on that. And I think so I've passed the bottle. [00:47:00] So I've been drinking it neat. I haven't put any ice in mine and as I've sipped it, as we've been talking and going through it, every sip, I'm adjusting to it more and it's really popping. Like it's great.
**Pagoda:** Oh, you know, Geza, you mentioned, um, that, uh, you were feeling a little bit of the salty taste when you were smoking the cigar right after having a sip of the bourbon.
I think I'm getting a lot more of the saltiness now, as opposed to the sweetness, which I was getting earlier when I was, um, you know, drawing into the cigar. So, it's, um, it's, actually now I think the combination is, you know, pairing really well. I don't know. It's like a sweet and salty thing. I'm getting
**Gizmo:** exactly.
And by the way, I love watching you guys. I got a thing. I got a totally gloss over it and enjoy right now. I have a
**Poobah:** thing that's happening. So I just refilled mine. I just refilled my drink. You filled it quite a bit. Yes. Um, no argument there. Um, I got, you know what? I got a blast [00:48:00] of, I got a blast of orange.
Yeah, I'm getting orange creamsicle. That's what I was thinking. I got a, I got like a black, I poured it. And I had a couple of ice cubes in there and I got
**Gizmo:** a blast of orange. Put your nose to it. It almost kind of faintly smells like a, like an old fashioned in a way.
**Poobah:** Like there is, there is an orange there without the orange.
Right.
**Gizmo:** It's really nice. I'm
**Poobah:** impressed. That's a pagoda. So I got a blast of orange. I really did. Yeah. Like this would make a great old fashioned. Oh, it would. Yeah.
**Pagoda:** What are we doing the old fashioned night? We've got to do one of those. We've got to do a cocktail night. I
**Senator:** think you're going to be the bartender.
You have to, you have to set that up.
**Pagoda:** I'll set it up. Maybe I'll, you know, I'll make a big picture of it and then we just pour it. Perfect.
**Poobah:** Well, yeah, that's a great way to make it. I mean, I've always used the way I made them at home was I would take, you know, everyone does it differently, but I would take a, um, orange rind [00:49:00] and then a sugar cube, one sugar cube.
**Pagoda:** Yeah. The brown sugar cubes. I like those.
**Poobah:** You use brown sugar. I would just use the plain sugar cube, just one cube. Cause it's like the exact amount and draw, you know, and drop that in. Yeah. And put the bitters in and then muddle it.
**Gizmo:** It's
**Poobah:** a nice move. They're muddling. You know, you should see Poobah
**Senator:** muddle.
Yeah. Poobah and Pagoda look like they have a shake weight. Their head.
**Pagoda:** I don't know how I get excited about this.
**Poobah:** Yeah. And then, and then you muddle it up and then, and then stir it, not shake it.
**Pagoda:** Always stir it.
**Poobah:** Stir it. So stir it. Whether it's in a pitcher or whether it's in a glass, uh, and stir it, just gently stir it and then strain it over fresh ice for the listener.
**Gizmo:** Poobah is as if he has the shaker in his hand, doing all of the hand motions. So very gently stir it. So
**Poobah:** you don't, because what you don't want to do is, is [00:50:00] liquefy the whole cocktail. You know, you just want to muddle it, make it, chill it, not shake it, stir it, pour it. Drink it and drink it. Is that a five pound shake weight or a
**Gizmo:** 10
**Poobah:** pound shake?
Well, I mean, it depends on the time of the month.
I don't know what the hell am I talking about?
That's not what you said. It, not me, not withstanding the, uh, but, but that's the way I, that's the way I make mine. I don't know how you make yours. No. So it's
**Pagoda:** essentially do the same thing as turret without ice. You know, and then after that, I put a little bit of ice and then stir it so that, uh, the old fashioned cools down.
So when you're, so when you're drinking, it feels really cold. And I, I like even what you're suggesting and, you know, I'm going to try that next time.
**Poobah:** Yeah, it's just a little, you know, you make the drink, you make the drink and then you put an ice cube, like a big ice cube in there, stir. That's one
**Pagoda:** big ice cube and that, that does it.
**Poobah:** I wish we were a [00:51:00] video podcast. Wait, is this him, is this him saying move on or? No, this is just the hand motions.
**Senator:** I feel like you're fluent in sign language. It's unbelievable.
**Gizmo:** Very expressive. So boys, I want to go to two listener emails. Uh, one is a follow up. If you remember the listener who wrote in, Lizard Drew wrote in, Criticizing when I said that rye doesn't pair well with cigars a couple episodes ago, remember that?
It was totally right. Totally right. You know what you're talking about. hahaha A couple weeks ago he wrote in and then he followed up he said Brother Giz thanks for your response. I know you didn't care for the cinnamon forward notes of the E. H. Taylor. But if you're willing to give another Cinnamon Forward Bourbon a chance, I suggest picking up an Ezra Brooks Distillers Collection.
These pair very well with the Baking Spice notes of Padrone, with natural wrappers, especially the 80th. I'm actually pairing it tonight with an Opus X Double Corona, and it's a match made in heaven. The bottle [00:52:00] I'm drinking is over six years old, but the age of the pick is dependent on the story you get it from as their single barrel picks.
And he sent us a picture as well. And he says, cheers until next time. I also asked him for some rye recommendations that he thinks would pair well with cigars. So we can dive a little bit further into, you know, rye whiskeys that folks think are, uh, you know, appropriate. Pairings for cigars. Well,
**Poobah:** that would be great if he can send in some, some ride that's approachable.
Um, yeah, it's a good thing to get us moving, moving in that direction. I like ride. I've had some good ride.
**Gizmo:** So boys, I have another email. This one shocked me, shocked me. This was a YouTube comment and this is from YouTube user. O D O N D 36, and he wrote, I think the Churchill Bellicoso recommended in this video, so this was on the FOH Deep Dive, that I recommended the Davidoff Bellicoso, we were just talking about that cigar, the Winston Churchill Bellicoso from Davidoff, Dominican, said, I gave it a try last night with a friend, and it was a terrible smoke.
[00:53:00] I was embarrassed to have suggested it. Hopefully the last two in the box are nicer. And I replied, I said, I'm honestly shocked to hear this. I've been, we've been spoken to them for months, four to five a week. Everyone has been brilliant. We loved it on the podcast too, of course. And then he wrote back. I have a couple more to confirm what you're saying.
So fingers crossed, otherwise price and presentation are really good. I've got to admit, but I was shocked to hear a listener. Say they hated the Davidoff Bellicosa. But by
**Pagoda:** the way, that's a first I've heard because I've handed these cigars to so many people. And everybody just really enjoys them. Yeah. I mean, I've had to have
**Senator:** smoked through at least 40, 50 of these tins.
I've never had a single bad one. Maybe he got a bad batch. He may have. Or it might have been off the truck, you know, wet.
**Poobah:** He may have got a bad batch or, or it's just not in his wheelhouse. It's probably
**Senator:** not. I can't even buy that. I'm sorry. Like to me, that cigar is one of the very few cigars that I think has [00:54:00] something for every imaginable type of cigar smoker.
**Poobah:** You know, I, I don't disagree. I'm just saying that maybe there are people out there who just, what is he smoking? I don't know what he's, you know, maybe he smokes Ligas regularly and it doesn't deliver enough strength.
**Gizmo:** And
**Poobah:** my thought
**Gizmo:** would be that if he's watching FOH YouTube. That he's probably a Cuban cigar smoker.
So it even makes it a little more confusing because that cigar is perfect for a Cuban cigar smokers, especially as new worlds go. I'm surprised,
**Senator:** I'm surprised your first question was not what is your RH of your humidor or tower? I mean, very well, maybe that could be that. I just don't know how our sample site, I mean, we've smoked, God knows how many of these across all of us.
I have not heard any of us have a single bad one. I'm shocked by that. You
**Pagoda:** know, last week I was traveling. So, me and, uh, I was with, uh, obviously, Leather Chai. We were smoking a lot of cigars. But a lot of people wanted [00:55:00] to try it because, uh, we, you know, we were in a lake house and a lot of people were there.
I handed out somebody. Thanks for the in, thanks for the invite , and everybody loved them. I think it was really well accepted even by, you know, not only the men, but even the women. So, wow. It was, it was great.
**Gizmo:** I think it's a great cigar. I was shocked to read that, that's why I wanted to share it. I mean, we've had other folks write in, Hey, I didn't like the cigar you, you guys liked, so be it.
But to have a terrible experience to say it was a terrible cigar. It, it's totally, uh. But off kilter for me.
**Poobah:** It's like to each its own though,
**Gizmo:** you know, you
**Poobah:** know, some some
**Gizmo:** the other thing with those two I mean he may have cut off too much and just got a cigar that was like a Wind tunnel and burned too fast and got too hot and gave him a tar blast.
I mean, that's a real thing You take a quarter of an inch off that cigar You're gonna have a different smoking experience than just taking a little bit off the
**Senator:** tip forget smoking experience You're gonna be eating the entire cigar Yeah. I mean, for some reason, that little bellicose. So if you take more than the tiniest bit [00:56:00] off of the, um, the head of that cigar, the tobacco just falls out.
I mean, it's, it's really frustrating to smoke. So you have to just take the tiniest amount and the draw. It's always so wide open that even if you just pinch a little bit off, you have a wide open drop when you smoke it. But
**Pagoda:** that's a really good suggestion because make sure that he just takes a little bit off because if it's more, then it also gets bitter, right?
Well, it gets heated up.
**Gizmo:** You know, you gotta also take your time. And there's not a ton of tobacco in the cigar. So it just is a wind tunnel. So if you take off more than a 16th of an inch, maybe an eighth of an inch, you're going to have a real problem. I think it could be a multiple,
**Rooster:** multiple things. I mean,
**Gizmo:** ask, you should ask him
**Rooster:** like, what does he normally smoke, you know?
**Poobah:** Yeah. I mean, and to each his own, by the way, I mean, you know, for some folks, they may want a stronger cigar. You know, some folks, they like Nicaraguan tobacco and smoke that almost exclusively. Yeah. Um, everyone's entitled to their opinions. I mean, we've got this, we've, you [00:57:00] know, we, we, we go around and review these cigars.
We have divergent opinions often.
**Gizmo:** So, boys, we're coming into the. End of the second third here on the Casdagli, Brothers of the Sabre in Brave. What are you guys thinking?
**Pagoda:** Not doing much for me at all. I think it's just somewhat reasonably flat. I don't know. I think for me, the bourbon's just taken over. I'm enjoying the bourbon a lot more.
But there's some good moments.
**Gizmo:** There's some good moments. I think this is a pretty damn good cigar. Honestly, I think it's very, very good. I think if it was a little cheaper, I might want to reach for it a little more. I think at 19 bucks, it's a little, a little too pricey, but I I'm in, I'm really enjoying the smoke and the experience so far, I would want to try the
**Rooster:** Robusto, maybe something in a smaller, smaller Vitola might do it more justice.
**Senator:** For me, the first half, I really enjoyed the second half. Now for me, the flavors getting more muddled. And, um, it's getting a bit boring as a result. I just wish [00:58:00] it could have stayed all the way through. I would give this a very high score if it would have.
**Rooster:** I even took the band off to see if that would change the flavor.
Ha ha
**Grinder:** ha. Good luck. I'm not really digging it, guys. The, uh, the stringency, the bitterness, it's, it's getting more of that. The strength of that. Um, and, um, I still can't pinpoint all of the flavor profiles that I even liked on the, on the draw, but it's fine, you know, it's, you know, serviceable.
**Poobah:** The litmus test for me is if I was by myself and I'm on my, I'm on my patio with the Rover, and if those don't know what roving is, go back in the catalog episodes, watching television on your deck.
Um, Even this lizard
**Pagoda:** roves.
**Senator:** Pagoda
**Poobah:** roves now.
**Senator:** Everyone, almost everyone roves here.
**Poobah:** That's correct. If you're a true lizard, you rove, and we can talk about that later. But, [00:59:00] um, I would, I would have dropped this cigar about ten minutes ago. Uh, I wouldn't, uh, by myself, invest any more time. I, you know what I'm saying?
I would, I, I, I drop it and like light depending on how much time I had lighten up in half Corona or a month, you know, a money to whatever I would have lit anything else. I would have dropped it. So like, um, so in my mind, to me, I would have at this point in the cigar, I would not invest any more time in it unless we were on the podcast.
So for me, that's a detriment to the smoke.
**Senator:** I do agree with rooster that the Robusto hopefully would be a better. Vittola for the cigar just because
**Gizmo:** I can't win on the Vittola choice. Unbelievable. This is not your fault. This one's too big. The other ones are too small.
**Senator:** It's uh, this [01:00:00] one's not your fault.
I'm like every woman.
The first half was so enjoyable that I feel like a shorter format, hopefully, if they could just keep that experience all the way through. would do better than this where, uh, they, they have not been able to maintain that flavor. I mean, this
**Rooster:** is, this is, this is the problem with a lot of big cigars. If they are, you know, if they don't keep you interested in it.
So by the time like the halfway point, you're kind of done, like you're not enjoying it. You have to, you know, it's gotta, it's gotta be like a two act or a three act play when it's a big cigar. So keep,
**Poobah:** keep you
**Rooster:** in
**Poobah:** it. 100%. 100%.
**Pagoda:** Wouldn't it be interesting, like if they really did, you know, roll these larger cigars, smoke them and decide whether the first half is great or the second half, and then make Robustos out of it.
That might be what they do,
**Gizmo:** Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, probably. Because I think like the first half would be [01:01:00] great in the Robusto, but if it was the second half, I'd be like. After like 150
**Rooster:** episodes, this is where we conclude. No, listen, hey, listen. All right. I'm a bit tired
**Pagoda:** today. All right.
**Gizmo:** So boys, speaking of, uh, going 143 episodes and, uh, coming up with something new here, we have been put in a little bit of a position, I think, by another, uh, podcast in the market.
And, uh, I pulled some clips and I wanted to share with you. So I got an email from a listener with the subject that said WTF with a screenshot of the cigar authority, putting out an episode on June 22nd called cigar lounge lizards. Which I thought was interesting. And the whole premise of this was going through 22 different personalities.
You'd beat in the lounge, quote unquote, calling them cigar lounge lizards. And of course, when I looked at the hashtags and I looked at some of the other things, it seems like a declaration of war boys.
**Pagoda:** No, I think they've just employed a new SEO. [01:02:00] I hope they have a good attorney.
**Gizmo:** So I did some digging and I realized that they have a sister podcast that I was unaware of called the ash holes.
Very appropriately named. And they had an episode come out on May 7th where this whole thing started. So this is like a smaller podcast and offshoot of the, the Cigar Authority, main podcast that they have. And, uh, they recorded some stuff and I cut some clips and I wanted to share it with you guys and see what you thought about their comments on lounge lizards.
They didn't come at us. They didn't mention our podcast, but, um, I don't know. It's certainly pretty damning. So I wanted to share it with you guys. Broadcasting
**Audio Clip:** live from Studio 21 Cigar Studio above Tuga Smoke Shop in Selma, New Hampshire. This is the Ash Holes Podcast and today we're talking about lounge lizards.
Lounge lizards. I think wasn't that a old Comedy Central like stand up show? A lot of giggling. Not to be confused with lot lizards. It's a very different thing. Very, let's hope so. It's a very different thing. Well, you would hope so. Maybe there's some crossover at some points, but uh. Oh my god. Yeah, [01:03:00] we're going to talk about lounge lizards today.
Some of the worst. Habits and things people do. Some of the worst types of people you might see in a cigar lounge.
**Gizmo:** So that's the first clip. Oh my Lord.
**Audio Clip:** Yeah. Let me be a cigar to have in a lounge. Maybe not with your favorite person, because today we're going to talk about the lounge lizard. So, you know, cigar authority.
The other show, right? They did the dark side of the cigar industry. Why don't we talk about the dark side of the cigar lounge? Some of, you know, I'm sure we have some terrible stories of hanging out lounge. Cause like, look, it's great to hang out at your local cigar store, make some friends, but a lot of times there's, there's not the best.
And it doesn't mean that they're a bad person. They might have, you know, some different qualities that may not. Boundary
**Rooster:** issues. Yeah. Characters.
**Audio Clip:** So, I mean, going over what you guys think in terms of when you see someone in the lounge. What stands out to you as a no no? Not necessarily an [01:04:00] etiquette thing, but more of the person themselves.
Something they do or how they act.
**Gizmo:** Is this a personal attack or an attack on the podcast here?
**Senator:** Oh, this is an attack on the podcast. I'm sorry. They're, Lizard Nation, there's gonna be a draft. We're going to war.
**Pagoda:** Listen, on the positive side, we're getting a lot of notoriety over here. Clearly.
**Poobah:** Yeah. Yeah. Keep playing, keep playing
**Gizmo:** these idiots.
So here's, here's the third clip from Ash Holes, and then we'll move to the actual Cigar Authority. This is the third clip here.
**Audio Clip:** You know, as it turns out, I'm not usually interested in their deviant sexual behavior. That's an attack on BAM. Yeah, I feel like almost, almost like the confessional on the other show.
I feel like people use The Lounge as a confessional of like, oh, like, you know the hooker I killed last night? Oh, man. That's weird. She was a close talker, man. Forgive me, Father Freifson. But, uh, you know. That's, that's what I think we have to say about the lounge lizards, the, the worst habits. So don't do any of these things when you [01:05:00] go to a lounge next time and make sure you go and when you go, obviously, we don't have to say it, but I'm saying anyway, buy a cigar, please.
Be considerate. All right. Let's take a break.
**Pagoda:** Clearly, they have no content. They're using us as their content.
**Gizmo:** So, I mean, to me, what this is, is, you know, obviously the content, it is what it is, but it's, it's simply just, you know, an attack on, on, you know, I, I would think. On search. When, when people are trying to find our podcast, what are they typing in?
Cigar lounge lizards are lounge lizards cigar, right? So it's just an, it's just a play on trying to get these episodes out and try to try to mess with our search, but it's, it's just, listen, we don't talk about other podcasts. We don't talk about how we feel about other podcasts. We've never in 143 episodes even mentioned cigar authority or this other one that they have, like, I'm just not interested in it.
But when I hear stuff like that, And this is the best you could come up with for your episode that week. Like it, it [01:06:00] grinds me a little bit. Like it pisses me off a little bit.
**Poobah:** It does. Um, and I'll say something, um, you know, my mom would always say born and raised in Texas, she, she'd say, you know, son, you know, always take the high road.
There's less traffic up there. And, um, and I believe that, um, But I believe that and, and, and, you know, if these guys want to, if these guys want to talk and they, I, I find it, you know, it's, I don't think it's a coincidence. I mean, it could be, it's, I don't think it's a coincidence that they're, that they're.
They're like aligning personality archetypes, um, with this podcast and trying to do this thing. I mean, there were like 22 personality archetypes. It's like, first of all, none of these folks are qualified to really, um, let's call it, um, classify people. Personality archetype or archetypes like, like [01:07:00] Carl young.
Do you know what I'm saying? I mean, Carl young did that, you know, like, like, like, like these guys haven't read young, they had, they don't know, even know who he is. So what I'm trying to say is, is, is, is, you know, like, uh, D D D D. Do we stoop down to the level of, of, of what saying that they're, yeah, are they trying to, this is my suspicion.
They're trying my hypothesis like everyone else. They're trying to, you know, put this description in and maybe, and maybe, you know, Be competitive with search. Hey, go for it. I mean, we're not going to change what we do. I'm going to change the name of the podcast. It's going to be the lounge lizards, the cigar authority moving forward.
Yeah. And for the listener, it's like, you know, we are who we are and, and, and, and, and we're not motivated all these other, and I'll. Turn it over to the group in a second. Um, we're not, we're [01:08:00] not, by the way, this cigar, this podcast does not, it does not make money. Okay. We're, we're not in this to make money.
Yeah. We don't have a brick and mortar. We don't have Cedar packs. We don't have a club. We don't have a club, we don't have, we're not judging people, we don't sell cigars, we don't sell cigars. We do an honest podcast and we review cigars and we review them honestly. And we have, we started this podcast because we wanted to kind of record these conversations.
We thought they may be interesting to people. It turns out it's interesting to some people and that's great. And we love our, we love our listeners and we love those people. But you know, this is kind of weird. I think it's passive aggressive strange, and I'll turn it over to the group.
**Pagoda:** I'll tell you one thing I do have to say.
Am
**Poobah:** I crazy?
**Pagoda:** There's one thing I do have to say. I've never even heard of them, and I don't listen to them. But they clearly listen to us. So, you know, they do listen to us. So we've got some [01:09:00] listeners.
**Grinder:** I
**Gizmo:** guess so. We got downloads. Well,
**Grinder:** I don't think any of us would ever denigrate the cigar people, the people that we meet in cigar lounges like that for some, and by the way, I haven't even played,
**Gizmo:** I haven't even played cigar authority clips yet.
I've only played the, these offshoots a show.
**Grinder:** We're only talking about how many great people we make. We meet, because of cigars, right?
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Grinder:** And how much it brings people together and how enriching it is. And it's, it creates friendships, this whole friendship. So, you know, To hear their, where they're coming from, you know, I don't give a shit because they're clearly not coming from the right place.
**Senator:** Yeah, it's just ridiculous. I mean, they're, they're, they're like attacking the very people that are probably the biggest consumers of cigars in this industry, period. It's like people who spend the most time in a cigar lounge are typically the people who are buying the most cigars and smoke the most cigars.
It's outrageous to me that these losers who are obviously retailers, they sell cigars, uh, who should be [01:10:00] catering to that audience are criticizing the very people that they need as consumers. I mean, that to me is just outrageous. And then second to that. It's like, you know, the community that exists because of the people that spend so much time at cigar lounges and create that environment that people want to be there, want to get to know each other and spend time together.
The whole premise of this is outrageous. paint this broad stroke of people who spend a lot of time in cigar lounges are bad. Awful people is completely ridiculous. They clearly don't have a good lounge. Clearly not. Yeah. Or a
**Pagoda:** retail shop to smoke at. Well, yeah, I think. Or people who like them in the lounge.
Well, yeah, to expand
**Poobah:** on that, you know, it takes all kinds, it takes all kinds of people and. According to them, 22 different kinds, which we'll get to in a second. It takes all kinds of people. And, and, and there's, and, and I always go back to what, what, what, what senators always [01:11:00] said, um, for years, which is, you know, the cigar is the great equalizer and, um, you can go to cigar lounges.
All around the country. And, um, we've all traveled. We've all traveled for business. And I remember one particular experience at where, where was this at the Brown palace?
**Gizmo:** Oh, in Denver and Denver, by the way, that's an awesome old school hotel. It's like a historical site. Totally. The lounge is. Incredible.
Incredible. Great drinks. Great vibe. And it's in the hotel lobby of this amazing hotel in downtown.
**Poobah:** Exactly. And like, I hung out with, with a group of people the entire night. So I just, that's just one example of many. That we all have um at the grand savannah room in in new york city We you know, okay, regardless of the quality of the chairs and all that other stuff.
We did about 30
**Gizmo:** minutes on that Okay
**Poobah:** Put that aside Put [01:12:00] that aside put that aside for a minute, but how do you saw jim nance there? Yeah, of course. Well, yeah everybody Um, but but putting that aside It's, it's, it's, it's a great, it's a great equalizer. And I just think, you know, whatever this narrative is.
Around these personality archetypes, which none of these people are, have any expertise in analyzing. They're just doing it kind of off the cuff is strange. I think it's strange that they're, you know, that they're invoking this lounge lizards, you know, name in the, in the title of their podcasts. And the name of our podcast is the lounge lizards, and it's the, it's arguably the, the, the, the, the most successful podcast on earth.
And these guys are cigar podcast.
**Senator:** Let's be clear. Okay. Cigar pot. We'd be making a lot of money if we
**Poobah:** were the most successful at all categories. We're not Joe Rogan. Yeah. Thank you for [01:13:00] clarifying. You're right. The lounge lizards experience duly noted. Um, But still it's
**Gizmo:** not, it's not cool. Like, I don't know.
I think our ethos and I have two more clips to play. Like I said, I think our ethos is about lifting people up and, and celebrating the community as opposed to sitting around and saying, here's a list of people that we've met in lounges. We've put an archetype on them and we don't like them and, and they're not worthy of our business.
And I think that's a weird thing.
**Poobah:** It is a weird thing. I mean, like, uh, You know, I was saying before podcasts help podcasts. I mean, I'd be more than willing to, to, to, you know, you don't have other podcasters on, you know, rising tides, lift all ships. This isn't a competition. This is a community. And, um, you know, for us, that's what it means.
**Pagoda:** Are there retailers? They are, they are, they own retail. So, you know, instead of going about this way, I think if they would process differently. [01:14:00] I think it'd be a completely different story.
**Gizmo:** Well, let's, okay. So let's listen to the main Cigar Authority podcast clips that I pulled. We only listened to the offshoot three of those.
Now what they did is on May 7th, they released that first offshoot episode. Then on June 22nd, they did a full 22 personality archetype of cigar lounge lizards for like two hours. So I pulled two clips. So here's the first one. So
**Audio Clip:** today's topic is the personalities in the cigar shop.
**Poobah:** What's this accent? Is he off a fishing boat?
**Audio Clip:** 22 different categories of these people. And this started with a show I was in the audience listening to,
**Pagoda:** which I did
**Audio Clip:** on the ash holes. And I said, That is a whole show, right? The 40 minutes isn't enough. No, no. We just went, we went through it.
**Gizmo:** 40 minutes is not enough to shit on our, our customers.
**Audio Clip:** You know, we got, we got time constraints.
[01:15:00] So all of us have worked in a cigar shop. Even Ed Sullivan. Yes. Yes, I did. Yeah. So you've seen them. I've seen all of them. And, I believe you called them lounge lizards or something, it sounds very negative. Oh, I didn't make the term up, but, you know, it was, it existed. Some of them are lounge lizards, and others can be good customers that just have some personality traits that are undesirable.
I was a mall rat when I was in high school, but it's because we liked going to the mall. Yeah. It was fun.
**Senator:** Some of them, I assume are good people. I mean, what a ridiculous conversation.
**Gizmo:** So I pulled number 19 of the 22 archetypes. Cause I thought this was the most interesting, certainly relating, you know, we do Cuban cigars, we do new world cigars, so I pulled their, Commentary on the Cuban cigar smoker archetype.
**Audio Clip:** Um, number 19 is the Cuban cigar guy. This guy compares every cigar to real [01:16:00] Cuban cigars that he got on the beach in Mexico. And he got a great deal on them when he was there too. The Cuban cigar guy, uh, just, Oh, I just smoke Cubans. There's a difference between the guy you're referring to and the guy that was And most of those guys are gone now because of the prices, but was a real collector.
Uh, but when you start talking to them and they, they get that epiphany of, geez, they do all taste the same. There isn't a difference between Boulevard and punch. It's the same cigar. Yeah. But the guy who's great is the guy who's like, there's nothing better than the acrylic plastic top Cohibas. Yeah, man.
But that guy, you could put this place real quick.
**Poobah:** This is where this is where dr. Joe Ripped this guy these guys apart. Okay, go back to dr. Joe And and how he rips apart this [01:17:00] Garofalo guy Uh, this is insane. The fact that these guys are putting forward a narrative that every single Cuban cigar tastes the same is completely and totally transparent in regard to the fact that they are a retailer of new world cigars.
This is complete BS. It's total propaganda there. It's lunacy and it's, it's self serving. Period. Hard stop. I'm sorry, I'm
**Senator:** gonna go further. This disqualifies any human being as being an authority on cigars. Period. Period. You can't smoke a Bolivar and any other Cuban cigar brand and say that they taste exactly the same and have actually smoked Cuban cigars and have a clue what you're talking about.
These guys are fucking morons. I'm sorry. Like we, like has been said, we don't do this to denigrate any other podcasts, but that comment is as ignorant a statement as I've ever heard in [01:18:00] the cigar industry, period.
**Poobah:** It's the same, but it's the same commentary that this guy wrote up that Dr. Joe ripped this guy a new one for years ago.
10
**Gizmo:** years ago? 10
**Poobah:** years ago. Dr.
**Gizmo:** Joe has probably gone seven or eight years now. At least. Yes. He's off of YouTube. And to Puga's point
**Senator:** about them being retailers of New World Cigars. This is why we do this podcast, and I wish this weren't as necessary or needed as it is. There's such a clear angle of, I can't make money on Cuban cigars, so I'm going to entirely dismiss this category as being worth anyone's exploration, and just lie to my consumers and tell them they all taste the same, they're all fake, they're all horrible, don't, don't buy them.
It is so disgraceful that one, they think that there are enough cigar smokers that are dumb enough to believe that there are not there. Most people would immediately see through that. And, [01:19:00] um, it just completely disqualifies them as being worth listening to any perspective that they share, because now we know they're completely full of it.
Well said. It's a disgrace.
**Gizmo:** What exactly do they review? They just review new world cigars that they sell at their shop. Anything good? Or
**Rooster:** it's just
**Senator:** stuff that they hand
**Gizmo:** roll in Brookline fucking Massachusetts. I mean, these guys sound like clowns. You know, what's, what's crazy to me, obviously, you know, the Cuban cigar narrative that we just went through, but again, tying that back to our podcast, using our podcast name, it's just, the whole thing is just so weird to me.
And again, We're 143 episodes in. We've never even thought to mention them. We don't attack other people for the sake of it. We don't get off on that. That's not why we're here. We'd
**Poobah:** rather collaborate with other podcasters
**Gizmo:** and have them on and
**Poobah:** get their point of
**Gizmo:** view.
**Poobah:** We're
**Gizmo:** down with that. The whole thing is very odd.
The whole thing is very odd and it's, it's just like crazy to me that, that this is the, the [01:20:00] motive and, and the, the method that they've chosen to try to, you know, slice away whatever we're trying to do.
**Rooster:** You know, the difference also is that these guys are in it for money and we're not. Right. Exactly. I mean, our podcast is based purely on the love of the leaf.
That's what we do. We do a Cuban cigar. We love Cuban cigars and we love new world cigars and we just do it and we share the experience and that's it. We
**Senator:** all have day jobs. We're not selling cigars. We're not selling
**Poobah:** cigars. All of us make plenty. Of money and, and, and, and, okay, all of us do very, very well independently.
Okay. So, so, you know, our, our livelihood, no, I'm being serious, but all, but our livelihood doesn't depend on this podcast, which is why we'll give a cigar a seven, which is why we'll give it an eight, a six, this is not our life. Um, so for the listener, I mean, you know, these guys have, have a motive. Yeah. [01:21:00] It's crazy.
They have a motive. They have a motive to, to what? Hijack our search? I mean, come
**Gizmo:** on. This is petty. And you know what they're going to do if they even decide to respond to this, which I would advise them not to? Is they're going to say, Oh, we've never heard of them. We've never heard of the lounge lizard podcast.
Guess what? It's just a phrase. Every year when on Spotify
**Senator:** and all these platforms, they get their year end wrap up. They're very well aware. That we are the number one global cigar podcast. There's it's impossible that they have.
**Gizmo:** And listen, they've been around a long time. Good for them, but I'm sorry.
We're here now. I'm sorry. We're here. We're here. And
**Poobah:** guess what, guys? We don't care about monetizing the podcast. Okay. Yeah. We don't care about it. You guys do. So for us, we're going to speak the truth. We're going to be honest. We're going to be honest about our cigar reviews. So if you want honest cigar reviews, you want honest spirit reviews.
So you can go out and spend your money wisely, take a listen. And if you have a good experience with their recommendations, great. If you don't, [01:22:00] that's okay too, but there's no motive for us. Well said, a hundred percent. Am I nuts? You're not nuts. I mean, we do this because we like to do it.
**Pagoda:** But you know what it is, is also I've spoken to a lot of guys from a lot of different, as you know, and a lot of my friends are in Uh, members of different lounges all across, uh, the New York, uh, metro area.
And which of
**Gizmo:** the 22 archetypes do your friends fall into
**Poobah:** the 22 archetypes? Do your, do your lounge, do your customers fall into where they sit around and bitch about you, their customers. Sorry, Pagoda. No, but fair enough. You know, you, you, you were projecting like onto you.
**Pagoda:** I think it's number 19, but the Cuban cigar smoker.
No, but having said that, you know, the, the idea is that so many of the guys have told me what we love about the podcast and [01:23:00] is that it's a journey and it's a journey of discovery. And a lot of the guys have been introduced to so many different cigars, which they would never, ever try. Right. And then companionship.
A lot of the guys live in houses on the decks on the summer. Sometimes they're alone and to listen to music they put on a podcast. I feel they're a part of the group and, uh, they feel very, um, you know, it's just a community. Yeah, it's a con and that's our attempt. Our attempt is to really Try and build a community and, you know, join us in our journey of discovering cigars.
And some we like, some we don't, and we give our honest opinion. And, you know, you may have a completely different opinion and you can see that even within the podcast, within the seven of us, we all have varied opinions. So I think, uh, You know, for the guys who do want to join us on a journey, uh, I think we'll always be here for you.
And for the ones who don't, you can listen to the cigar. [01:24:00] Absolutely.
**Gizmo:** I also just my only challenge for
**Senator:** these morons is to sit down for an interview with Steve Saka. With George Padrone, with one of the guys who have really done it well in this industry and tell them that all Cuban cigars taste exactly the same.
And these are guys who do not make Cuban cigars, but who are honest and you listen to any listener can go back to our interview with Steve Sacco, who will tell you new world tobacco, no matter how creative Sacco or anyone has ever been. They can never replicate what you get out of Cuban tobacco. It's a unique beast.
What they're able to blend and make. I dare one of them to sit down with those guys and have them not laugh and just get up and walk away. And they don't make any money off Cuban cigars, but that's so ridiculous. Those guys wouldn't even give them the time. Saka
**Rooster:** made a comment about, he wishes that he could get.
His hands on some Cuban [01:25:00] tobacco to blend maybe some, you know, with his Dominican and Nicaraguan, uh, tobacco blended with some Cuban, Cuban tobacco. You wish, you wish us that. So
**Poobah:** he has respect for that. Absolutely. And, and, and to build on what Pagoda was saying, I mean, for that person who maybe, I don't know, in New Zealand somewhere, wherever across the globe, I go back and I listened to old episodes.
Like if I'm of the cigar
**Gizmo:** authority or of the lounge of, of,
**Poobah:** of our podcast. And sometimes I'll smoke a cigar and just go back and I'll listen to, and I'll listen to it because it's kind of like hanging out, you know, if you're by yourself and you're having a smoke, it's kind of like just like hanging out and having a cigar.
So that's what we're trying to do here. I'm not trying to, uh, alienate and, uh, You know, play, play, play stereotypes on [01:26:00] customers and types of people. We've got all types of people in the multiple lounges that we belong to. We all belong to multiple lounges. Um, and yeah, are there some people in lounges who are this way?
But this is just society. This isn't like life. It's life. I mean, a lounge is a microcosm of society. It's like anything else. There's going to be all types of people. There's going to be a guy who's got alligator arms. You know, he never shares a cigar. There's going to be, you know what I mean? There's going to, there, there is, there's going to be a guy who wants to, all he wants to do is talk about himself, but like go any, go to a bar, you're going to find the
**Gizmo:** same, you're going to
**Poobah:** find the
**Gizmo:** same people.
I would say this, that for, for how they've denigrated. Their customers and the people who sit in their lounge and they'll, they'll, they'll, they'll qualify it by saying, Oh, some of them are great. Some of them are fine. Some of them are good. Just some of them. I would say that if you look at the seven of us on this podcast, how different we are in life, where we are age wise, [01:27:00] career wise, everything about us demographically, totally.
We would have not met had it not been. For finding each other at a cigar lounge, 100%. And, and, and to hear this whole commentary on, on, on how negative their perspective is on some of these people, it's very odd to me because I found my closest friends at a cigar lounge. I've met some of the greatest people at a cigar lounge.
I've had conversations with people I would have never met on any, in any other circumstance in a cigar lounge because we were sharing a cigar and that time together. So it's an odd approach to. The business, the hobby, the lifestyle, whatever you want to call it, that it just does not align with any aspect of my thinking.
**Poobah:** It aligns with, it aligns with certain retailers where we've been members of cigar lounges where we're okay. Where, where they're looking at their customers as, as bank accounts. Okay. They, they, they want [01:28:00] folks to spend money in their humidor. And if you're spending money in their humidor. You're not talking about Cuban cigars.
You're not bringing in your own cigars. They want, and you're only smoking cigars in their lounge out of their humidor. They're happy with you. If not, they're not happy with you. Not
**Senator:** even that. I'll go further. Even if you're doing all of those things, the less time you're spending in their lounge, they happier.
They're exactly right. . They have a retail only mentality. It's you're to come buy cigars in my humidor and leave. And leave
**Poobah:** and get the fuck outta here. Yep. A
**Gizmo:** hundred percent. It's a very odd mentality. And if I'm a listener of that podcast, which I'm not, if I'm a listener to that, and I hear that, it's like, are they talking about me?
Are they talking about my friends? Are they talking about in this room? They're talking about the lounge lizards. Clearly the seven of us, like. What the fuck? Well, this
**Poobah:** is, this is your choice of content for the week. It's, it's [01:29:00] negative and doesn't, I don't think aligns with the ethos of, of the overall cigar community.
I mean, it's just, this is society. There's all types of different people who smoke cigars. They like different ones. They, and they come into a lounge and it's a, it's a mashup, right? Um, But so often, more often than not, you've, you actually end up breaking through and really having a good conversation with somebody more often than not.
Um, at least in my experience, you know, you run into more good people and, uh, people who are interested in cigars and are positive and are looking to relax. And. You know, that's a good thing. If you find somebody that's annoying, I mean, you know, move on. Okay. Find another seat, find another seat. Okay.
**Gizmo:** So here's what I would say.
We're 143 episodes into this podcast. This is the first time we've ever mentioned the cigar [01:30:00] authority or anything else that they do. And I hope it's the last time let's put it that way. So the ball is in their court. We've moved to DEF CON three. If we need to move to Defcon two or Defcon one, we'll do it.
We're at DEFCON three. .
**Poobah:** I don't know if there's a Defcon. Oh, there's
**Gizmo:** Defcon.
**Poobah:** I've
**Gizmo:** set up Defcon.
**Poobah:** I mean, who cares? He's got Protocol ,
**Gizmo:** he's got the O. I have an SOP here. I gotta have an SOP. His bill has the nuclear coach. I
**Poobah:** mean, you know, we can go as far as you want, but I mean, who cares really? Exactly The end of the day, I hope.
I hope
**Rooster:** we never have to mention their name again. Exactly right. I hope it never comes up. Exactly right.
**Poobah:** You know, because ultimately, I mean, in a perfect world, I'd love to have other podcast hosts on our podcast.
**Senator:** We have, by the way, we had Dan from Cigar Saloon. Oh, of course. Of course. And Rob Isla.
**Poobah:** Well, yes, that's what I'm talking about.
By the way, who are two of the [01:31:00] best? What I'm saying is you talk about no bullshit. I mean, come on, they're two of the best of all time. Of course, Rob Island and Dan Shashini. Uh, but, but what I'm saying is, is more of that is what we would want. Um, to share ideas, to, to, you know, to share perspectives and, um, and mutually support each other.
I mean, so by
**Gizmo:** the way, you mentioned something I wanted to bring up about a listener sent a note in, this is from lizard, John, you mentioned something about, you know, we make a plenty of money. We're doing all right without the podcast. I have a random question. A few episodes ago, Poobah made a comment about, he quote, isn't flying around in Gulfstreams quote.
And then someone else said, well, apparently you are. And then Poobah says back, okay, take it easy. Take it easy. A few times. Is he in denial? Of being rich or is that an inside joke? Where does that fall on the archetype? [01:32:00] No comment.
**Pagoda:** I think that's number 23. Poop
**Gizmo:** is the archetype. They haven't figured out yet.
They never will. All right, boys, we're coming to the end of our evening with the Casdagli brothers of the saber In brave And the Henry McKenna, 10 years aged, Kentucky Strait bourbon. What are you guys thinking?
**Grinder:** I, I, the cigar, I, I put it out.
**Gizmo:** You put it down? I
**Grinder:** put it down.
**Gizmo:** I took mine all the way down.
**Grinder:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** I thought it was pretty damn good.
**Grinder:** The bitterness for me just wasn't really.
**Gizmo:** I didn't get, I didn't get even a moment of bitterness. Not one.
**Rooster:** Yeah, but you have to, you have to agree with the fact that the, the first half of the cigar
**Gizmo:** was, the first half was definitely better, but the second half wasn't bad for me.
I will
**Senator:** say in the second half, there were moments that I got some bitterness that Grindr was describing. Maybe not as [01:33:00] much, but I definitely experienced it. The first
**Rooster:** half was much better than the second half. Way better.
**Senator:** Oh, way better, yeah. Uh, on the, the bourbon we're drinking, how much is a bottle of that?
70 bucks. 70 bucks. Not bad.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Senator:** It's got a 10 year age statement. I respect that.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. I think that's a fair price for what we got online. The
**Senator:** go to looks pain.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Pagoda:** Yeah. Yeah.
**Grinder:** My rating will reflect it. I think it's, I think it's cheaper elsewhere though. I mean, I'm seeing it on the
**Rooster:** price of old fashioned just went up.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, it's time to move into the form of liquor rating now. On the Henry McKenna, 10 years age, Kentucky straight bourbon grinder. You're up.
**Grinder:** I actually didn't, I thought I'm not a bourbon guy as you guys know. I enjoyed it. I think the, the flavor was wonderful. Um, it definitely was a little hot to begin with, which was something that's something I typically don't enjoy.
Um, but it really mellowed out. I think it just burnt my taste buds. And then it was like, uh, [01:34:00] you know, those like candies that are like cinnamon flavored. Yeah. Like what do they call those, uh, hot and something, those cinnamon, those like cinnamon candies, like, uh, I know what you're
**Rooster:** talking about. Yeah.
**Grinder:** Like a big red chewing gum.
It, I got a little flavor of that. And it just, you know how it sticks in your mouth for a while. I got that. And it was, it was actually a bit nice and pleasurable. So for me, it's a seven. It's, it's a high score for, for me with a seven. Uh, I didn't, you know, it's drinkable. I don't know where that is on the recommend scale.
If it's soft, hard, soft, it's like a soft
**Gizmo:** recommend.
**Grinder:** It's a soft recommend for me. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** All right. Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** I think I'm an I'm at an eight. I like it was a bit hot for me. I'm not a big bourbon drinker, but I think, uh, um, you know, I think as the ice melted away, I think it just opened up quite a bit for me and I really started to enjoy it.
It really did for my, uh, palate with a really, really good flavor. And I think, um, it kind of gave me some really good moments with the cigar, like [01:35:00] certain things. Um, Really pleasurable moments and you know, it's a, it's an eight for me. I, I, at the price point of 70, you know, I didn't know, uh, maybe a bit, you know, being a bit optimistic or a bit more liberal in terms of the scoring because for an Um, yeah.
Like a, you know, 70, 80 bourbon. I don't know whether I'll be reaching out for it that often. But, um, once I started enjoying it, I think it, uh, it was something I was really seeking. In fact, I was enjoying the bourbon a lot more than the cigar. Obviously, the rating yet to come.
**Senator:** Senator? So, I'm in lockstep with Pagoda.
I'm at an eight. I thought it was really good. Um, I think for a higher proof Spirit generally and bourbon, which I normally shy away from to pair with a cigar, I thought, you know, once my palate kind of adjusted and acclimated to being higher proof, um, it was a really enjoyable experience. I don't think I was fighting [01:36:00] it in any way, fought with a cigar or detracted from the flavor of the cigar.
I think it helped, um, I think it was. somewhat complex, which was nice. I think sometimes I have high proof spirits and I'm just getting so much heat. It's hard for me to pick out like distinct notes. And I think the creaminess was unique for me to get in most bourbons and especially a higher proof bourbon like this, uh, the cinnamon note I enjoyed like others did all the way through.
So, um, I think they've done something pretty, you know, interesting with this bourbon. I would drink it again. I think with a, an age statement, which you don't find on many bourbons and a 10 year age statement, um, you know, probably reflects the, the 70 price point, which I don't think is crazy. Um, I don't know that I would, you know, Purchase this all that often, but I would happily drink it if someone poured it Um, and I think for anyone who enjoys a higher proof spirit that would pair well with a cigar I think this does and we've been trying to find [01:37:00] something that does Uh fit that category and I think this does a good job of it.
**Gizmo:** So for me, it's also an 8 I love the spirit. I thought it was a really good bourbon. It, as I sipped it, I warmed up to it. Every sip got better and better. It improved the cigar. I'm not going to a nine or a 10 because I think it's limited in its pairing with cigars. I don't think it would pair with, with Cuban cigars at all.
I think it would overpower most of them. And I think it would. Pair with some new world cigars. I think we got a little lucky tonight. I think you need to reach on, you know, more on the full side of, of new world cigars. So that's the reason I'm not at a nine. Uh, but I'm very happy at an eight Poobah.
**Poobah:** Um, for me, uh, it was an eight.
I, I think if I was just. Judging the spirit independently. I think if I'm sitting in a lounge chair in my, in my house, you know, watching the news and having, [01:38:00] having this, um, there were citrus notes that there was like an orange peel kind of thing going on. There was vanilla going on. There's cinnamon going on.
I think this. Without the, actually, I thought the cigar messed it up, to be honest. Really? Yeah. Like, because I'm not a big fan of the cigar and we'll get to that. Um, uh, I actually think the cigar messed with the integrity of, of, of how good this, this bourbon was. Um, for me, I thought, I think if you, if you focused on this and, and, and sipped it with an ice cube in it next to a fire, you know, in December, and you'd go.
Okay, this is good. Like, this is a 10, this is a 10 year old bourbon and it, for me, it had some complexity, so I'm going to give it an eight. It's not the best bourbon I ever had, but I don't think the [01:39:00] cigar lent itself well to the bourbon at all. So I'm going to disagree with some of the commentary here that.
You know, it was complimentary. Uh, I don't think it was. And, uh, it's an eight for
**Gizmo:** me. So boys, that puts the formal liquor rating tonight on the Henry McKenna, 10 years aged single barrel, Kentucky straight bourbon at a 7. 8. I think that's an appropriate score for this little low for me, but I think it's appropriate.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, I think it's,
**Senator:** it is a recommend. I mean, it's close to an eight.
**Gizmo:** All right. It's time to move into the formal lizard rating now on the Casdagli. Brothers of the Brave in Sabre. Rooster, you're up. Set the tone. For me,
**Rooster:** the cigar was kind of like a Jekyll and Hyde show. You know, the first half was That's an
**Gizmo:** interesting metaphor.
**Rooster:** The first half was phenomenal. I mean, to say the least, I mean, the, the notes that we got, I mean, even right from when you smell the wrapper, I mean, I thought this would be a great cigar on the foot, [01:40:00] the draw, the construction of the first half was fantastic. And the notes that I was getting that I look for, you know, almost like a, like some of the Cuban cigars, you get that floral note that doesn't exist in a Dominican cigar.
You don't really see that. So that floral note with the, with the creamy delivery and a little bit of nuttiness that we were getting. So the first half was phenomenal. And the second half was completely the opposite for me. I just, it just didn't deliver. So I wish maybe the cigar in a smaller format would do better.
And I'm not sure if that is the case. Maybe we'll have to try the Robusto and I think they only make two sizes. Right. So, so for that reason, um, I'm, I'm at a seven. That's a generous score for me. Okay.
**Poobah:** Poobah. Yeah, I'm at, I'm at a six, a solid six. I, I, I didn't love it. Um, I thought the first half was good. Um, I thought the second half [01:41:00] was terrible.
I didn't finish it. Um, and I wouldn't recommend it. So, I mean, you know, is it smokable and approachable? Yeah, but. For me, it was really went flat at the end. Um, it was a little bit bitter, all those notes at the beginning. I agree with you, Rooster, that, that, that there, there was some promising preview there in the first half.
Um, but you know, as a complete cigar for me. Not a recommend. I wouldn't give it to somebody. I wouldn't recommend it. And it's a six for me, Senator.
**Senator:** So I'm also at a seven. And the reason I mean, the first half, like Rooster said, I thought was really, really well done. And I think the floral note in particular, just shocked me.
I've never experienced that out of Dominican tobacco. So from a blending [01:42:00] standpoint, you know what he's done deserves credit. It's just such a shame that he wasn't able to keep and maintain that distinct and unique flavor profile all the way through the cigar. The second half of the cigar, I was entirely bored and uninterested.
Um, I lost my All of the flavor, uh, sorry, all of the floral notes that I got early on. I lost the dried fruit. That was, uh, that, uh, was prevalent in the first third. And I just got like some nuttiness and just kind of hot tobacco. I mean, I really wasn't getting a whole lot of flavors. So for me, I'm being generous with a soft recommend in that half of this, there's a lot of merit to like, it's worth experiencing.
And my hope would be that like Rooster said, in a shorter format, Maybe all the way through, you're able to get that experience. And that's what would bring it up to like an eight or, you know, maybe even a nine if it were that spectacular in how it finished. But, um, it's just a shame. [01:43:00] I'm just really bummed because this could have been a really high score and something that I would have smoked, uh, more of after this if it just could have held all the way through.
**Gizmo:** So I'm at an eight. The first third for me was a nine for sure. The second third was an eight and the last third was a seven. So that's kind of how I'm kind of doing the composite for myself. You know, I wish that the first third lasted into the second third, if not the last third, but it didn't. So unfortunately for me, you know, I was hoping that it was going to be a nine or nine plus tonight.
It wasn't, but you know, I'm very happy in eight, unfortunately.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, for me, it's a seven, um, it's really interesting, you know, I think like the way you described it, I would even think that even I'd gone as high as a nine at some point in time. And I think if it were unbanded and handed to me, I think I might've even thought that it was very like probably some version of a Cuban cigar.
Um, and [01:44:00] you know, we kept talking about, Hey, listen, let's see how it develops. Let's see how it develops. And then what was really great about the cigar was at least in, you know, the first half of, and a lot of it was really good combustion. very easy smoke, open draw. So a lot of merits to the cigar. Um, but you know, I think, uh, in the second half, it kind of dissipated.
Now, once I was having the bourbon, did get a few blasts of happiness. I think there was some really good abundance. Yeah.
**Poobah:** In medicine, they call that adjunctive therapy,
**Pagoda:** but it wasn't consistent. And, uh, yeah. And I also think for the price point for 20 bucks, you know, you're getting into a stick, uh, there are a lot of other alternatives for 20 bucks.
And, uh, seven is, uh, you know, a mild or a soft recommend as we say, and there's definitely give it a try. Uh, you know, it might suit your palate, uh, but, uh, a seven for [01:45:00] me.
**Gizmo:** Grindr.
**Pagoda:** I'm at a six.
**Grinder:** Um, I definitely, the, the, on the light, it, it was very nice. The aroma was wonderful. The, the foot aroma was really, you know, something special.
That bitterness was, was there in the beginning and it got stronger and it got stronger and it got stronger. And this is not a small stick. And maybe it's just my, my palate or my profile or the stick. I know there was some bitterness in the room that others cited. I don't think it was as strong as the one, you know, may not have been as strong as the one I had.
Um, yeah, but it's a long stick to have that bitterness in your mouth. So I, and I had to put it out eventually. So, um, you know, I think there are some, some notes that were aspiring, uh, for greatness that just didn't really ever develop and really show their maturity. So for me, it's a six, sadly.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, that puts the formal lizard rating tonight on the Casdagli brothers of the brave in saber.
At a [01:46:00] 6. 8 not a great score falling just short of a soft recommend
**Senator:** on the bright side We don't need to bother reviewing any more Dominican cigars. I've been told they all smoke and taste the same. That's true.
**Gizmo:** That's
**Senator:** true I think all cigars
**Gizmo:** Well play all right boys on the lounge wizards podcast tonight the cigar Authority We had the Henry McKenna, 10 years aged, Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey at a 7. 8. And on the Casdagli Brothers of the Brave in Sabre, we had a 6. 8. A good night, though. Great conversation. We did move to DEF CON 3. That's unfortunate.
**Senator:** Gizmo's itching to press the new thing. I'm ready. I'm ready.
**Gizmo:** Move me to DEF CON 1. I'm ready. All right, boys. A good night. Thanks to all the listeners for writing in, of course. Thanks to Fabrica5 for supporting the podcast. And we'll see everybody next week. Keep smoking. Hope you enjoyed this episode.
[01:47:00] Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, loungelizardspod. com. That's loungelizardspod. com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, if you want to reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking.
Email us hello at lounge lizards, pod. com. You can also find us on Instagram at lounge lizards pod. We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next week.