Tom and Paul read meditations

Stoic in our resolve to persevere... we are podcasters who will never stop.

What is Tom and Paul read meditations?

A lighthearted reading of Marcus Aurelius' Meditations. Join us as we read his private journal from 2,000 years ago and talk about how it makes us feel.

Hi, Tom, good evening.

Good evening.

We're recording today.

We're recording at 9 p.

On a Sunday.

Yes unusual time for us Yeah,
this is often a morning podcast.

It is tonight is a special Tom and
Paul read meditations after dark.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think maybe we'll have a little
bit of a different vibe Yeah, like a

fire crackling on a autumn late autumn
night Autumn and we have not really

visited Marcus and his meditations
since the summer at some point.

That's right.

I don't, yeah, it's been a little while.

It's been a little while.

I don't, I think it's been traveling.

We've been traveling.

We've had all kinds of things going on.

We got busy.

Yeah.

I think at one point we
did think about giving up.

Yeah.

And then okay, truthfully, dear listener,
we were just talking about our podcast

right before we started recording our
podcast and Paul has recently listened

to some of our episodes and what we
realized is actually this podcast is good.

So yes, we're stating for the record
that this is a good podcast and people

who disagree are either ill informed
or have poor taste or whatever else.

But yes, this podcast will never die.

That we are podcasters
who will never stop.

That's the thing.

We like it.

Yes, we like it.

And even though so here's the
thing our podcast on spotify

I recently learned has a 3.

7 star rating okay, and I personally
that feels coerced three people into

giving us five star reviews and there
are five reviews so in order to get a

three there's mathematical certainty.

Yeah that the two People that we
don't personally know who rated

us both gave us a one star review.

Yes So fuck you But and so
we talked about this fact.

Yeah, and we decided that like Marcus.

Yeah, we're just going to persevere huh.

We don't care.

This is a test.

Yeah.

Yeah, and nothing can stop us right not
even Disappointment from our listeners.

Yeah.

Yeah, but fear not listeners.

We will you know if you want to
leave comments about this podcast,

we are receptive to feedback So
receptive the even worst part about

these one star reviews as far as
we know They're anonymous is they

are anonymous with no feedback.

So that is the worst kind that
is a kind of review Yeah, I

think we can all agree is Yeah.

Yeah.

Not worth leaving.

So if you're considering leaving
a one star, anonymous, no comment

review to this podcast, please just
save yourself the time and don't.

Yes.

And instead leave a if you
feel like it, leave a good one.

We can apply that as one of
the lenses to today's reading.

The fact that, unfairly, unjustly,
the world has Saddlebuss with a 3.

7 star rating on Spotify.

Saddlebuss with a low rating.

Yeah.

thRee of them were forced, Tom.

I, and I promise I will do it.

Once Tom gives a five star
review, I still have not done it.

I think I did the math
and it'll take us up to 3.

Fantastic.

Yeah.

So if I, we can get a couple more people,
it would be great to get this podcast.

Yeah, as long as nobody else
listened to it, four stars.

Yes we've done a good job shaking the
listeners by not recording or posting

any episodes for a couple of months.

But ha, we're back.

We're back.

Yeah, we're unstoppable.

Better than ever.

Okay.

so I have a few things that
I, other lenses that I want to

bring to today's podcast episode.

The first.

is is this, so I was
in India for two weeks.

Oh, yeah.

Between our, August when we last talked
on this podcast and now, and it's great.

So my, my, my wife's family lives there,
so I spent some time with her grandfather.

Wow.

And he's 86.

And he's actually a very, he's a,
he is a very energetic 86-year-old.

One of the topics that he brought up,
which I thought was very funny to,

to me culturally was he was like he
just, every time he sees me he can't

quite grasp that I'm not religious.

And so he'll, he usually, the conversation
usually starts like this, Paul, sit down.

So I have to come and I sit down
and he goes, Paul you're Christian.

And I'm like, nope not Christian.

He's oh, so you're Jewish.

Nope, not Jewish.

You have to fit into one of these boxes.

You have to have the thing about,
yeah, Indian culture is, it's all good.

Yeah.

It's all good.

You can be Christian, you can be Jewish.

It's just, you have to have something.

You have to be one of them.

Yeah, you have to be one of those.

I see.

And I think Upi recently, my wife
recently mentioned this to me as well.

She's I think everyone
should have a religion.

I was trying to explain that
actually, I think, religion,

just because it's not a God.

I think I do believe in some version
of of maybe not like by the book

Marcus Stoicism, but some ver that is
a substitute for , standard religions.

, that I think you would adopt if
you live in a religionist society.

So that's one little tidbit.

Yeah.

That's an interesting thought.

I guess I'm especially interested in
it because it feels to me, it, what,

do you think this kind of philosophy
functioned as religion for its author?

He has a concept of gods
that we occasionally get.

He does have a concept of gods, yeah.

But, the truth is that, at least in this
text, his concept of gods is pretty vague.

Yeah.

And is often just a substitute for.

The forces that created the world,
whatever you might think they are.

Yeah.

It does I agree with you that it
almost feels like a sort of this

text could comport very well with a
kind of agnostic, I don't know what

how this all came about, but here's
a pretty good guide on how to live.

Yeah.

Is that, does that resonate for you?

I think all.

Religion or belief systems are just
ways to deal with the world and the

world being like random and cruel.

And and so this certainly checks that box.

It's a way to explain away the
random cruelties of the world.

And so I think it serves the
same purpose in that sense.

What is to a Christian Sunday Church
is to Marcus journaling in the evening.

Yeah, that's it.

Yeah.

It's interesting.

Yeah.

I guess maybe there's a, like a
philosophy versus religion distinction.

Maybe, and maybe I'm just, I
don't know what I'm talking about.

To me, religions usually do offer an
explanation for how this all came to be.

Oh, I see.

Which stoicism doesn't.

They're like an explain
the world kind of thing.

They're, you're right.

That they're about dealing with
the cruelties and inadequacies of

the world or whatever, but they're
also like, how did we end up here?

Which stoicism is not.

We have science now.

Yeah, which is a religion and
that's, in that sense, science

qualifies as a religion.

Yeah.

Science is a religion itself.

It has cause and effect.

Yeah.

Like you can explain theoretically,
it says that anything can be explained

in the same way that religion does.

And it gives an origin story of humanity.

So yeah.

And like other religions that leave
certain questions unanswered, very few.

Like what Big Bang.

Yeah, exactly.

Can we wrap our head heads around?

Yeah.

Is this the only universe and Right.

What does it mean that there couldn't,
that, that there was no time before

the Big Bang and that sort of thing.

Stuff that we can't really, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

I'm on board.

I guess with that, that as being
as complete or more complete an

explanation of the situation we find
ourselves in as other religions are.

Yeah.

Yeah, interesting.

Did you say any of this
to Baza's grandfather?

No, I think I think we
just left it at that.

You're not any of those things.

I'm not any of those things.

And then you pushed your chair
back from the table and stood up.

That's just the end of the conversation.

No, I think he was confused.

I think it was just a strange there's a
language barrier here too, to some degree.

So I think, I mean he speaks good English,
but I think there was just the words

could not, like there was this barrier
like, okay, now what does that mean?

I think we moved on to a
different topic at that point.

But it's a conversation he keeps
asking me basically because I

think it's just a very strange.

It doesn't work for him.

Yeah.

No.

Yeah.

Interesting.

It's funny that it's on Bubble,
but that's what it takes.

for you to say, wait a minute,
stoicism is that thing in my life.

Is that, was that a thought you
had already had at that point?

Because he would phrase it as
everyone needs a, like a religion.

It was like a, it was a very and I think
what he, I think he's coming from a

pretty wise place, which is that what
happens if something goes bad, goes wrong.

What happens if some
injustice occurs in your life?

Like, how do you deal with Right.

Like terrible loss.

Yes.

You need a religion.

Like sure, you don't need a religion.

When things are great and happy,
you're happy, but you need something.

When you're sad.

And I think he actually, to some
effect, he said those things, and

so that's what got me thinking.

I see.

Yeah.

I see.

Cool.

Yeah.

That's interesting.

Do you have a religion, Tom?

Like you, I don't identify
with a major religion, and if a

government forum asks me to pick my
religion, I'll usually say atheist.

I don't agree with you.

I don't know that I'm not sure
I would finger stoicism exactly

as the thing that is for me.

But.

Yeah.

Mine is, I wish I had a
clearly articulated one.

It's mostly like.

Just go talk to my wife's grandfather.

Yeah, he might really he'll
be really upset with you.

Yeah, he probably would be, yeah.

I think, yeah, to the extent
that I have philosophical stuff

about that, it comes from.

Simple stuff that we all learn, like
the golden rule, plus kind of our own

collections of experience and wisdom
about life that don't necessarily

correspond to a body of knowledge, like a
existing body of philosophy or whatever.

Okay, so actually that reminds me.

Yeah.

The follow up I had with the pasta.

Okay.

Was of the nature where she said I gave
the same answer you gave, essentially.

Yeah, and she said that.

And I felt very happy with my answer.

I felt there you go.

I washed my hands of this problem.

Aren't I cool?

Yeah.

And then she said that's because
you've never experienced real hardship.

Okay.

So how do you feel about that, Tom?

I don't like being told that.

I disagree with her.

I also didn't appreciate being told that.

I think that's not nice and not true.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's probably true.

Yeah.

I thought at the time, maybe I haven't.

Yeah.

But it may be I wonder if that's true.

I don't want to speculate on your
own feeling or your own story

that you tell about your life.

But the idea that all people without
religion are there just because they've

had cushy lives and they've never
been tested, that doesn't scan for me.

Yeah.

Or like At some point, once something
really terrible happens, you have

to find some system of beliefs that
aren't just a quilt of a bunch of stuff

and are something bigger than that.

No?

Maybe.

I think there's a correlation between
bad things happening in your life and

becoming more spiritual or religious.

Yeah, that makes sense to me.

There's an easy explanation for that
is totally divorced from, this is

an inevitable part of Going through
something hard, which is, yeah, people

who experience hard stuff naturally
are looking for ways to rationalize

and explain, and one of them is
these organized bodies of thought

that are designed to do just that.

But to me that is not the same thing as
saying, anybody who hasn't had that hasn't

gone through a hard period in their life.

Okay, I also feel
justifiably offended by that.

Offended, yeah.

Yes, I am also offended.

I think you should feel I have decided.

Okay, good.

I think you should feel however
you feel about being told.

It's offended.

Okay, good.

If you've chosen offended, I
cosign you feeling offense.

Yeah.

I'll tell her after this that I
have decided that I am now offended.

Okay, now you're going to pick a fight.

Great.

No.

It's recorded as my fault.

Tom told me that I should be
offended about this comment you made.

Yeah.

Alright, so how have you been
since we last recorded an episode?

It's interesting that this has, this
period of Us not recording an episode

has corresponded with the fall the season
of autumn more or less Because it's

always the season of the year where I
am at my best and happiest basically.

Oh, that's true this year Too I
find that it always happens to me.

I can't perceive it while it's going
on, but in the summer I'm always bummed

out and then fall comes and I'm like
just reinvigorated and full of life And

it's still true here in San Francisco
even without really having seasons the

same way we like a vampire like That's
the opposite of what most people feel.

Yes, I can't explain it.

As soon as it starts getting colder
and the days start getting shorter.

I come alive.

I can't totally explain it.

But I'm feeling that way now too.

Things are good.

I've been feeling pretty purposeful.

Not as if there's nothing I want in life.

But all in all.

Stringing together some
good days and weeks.

Interesting.

Things have been good for me, I would say.

That's cool.

Yeah, I, it's a funny I would say I tend
to feel best when the days are longest.

Yeah.

So I'm like tied to the light.

Yeah.

But you're not.

I think of myself as someone
who loves the light too.

I can't totally square that
with how the map of the seasons.

It may be, okay, my internal theory about
this, to the extent that I have one, is

that it had to do with school, basically.

And that school was a place in my life
that I felt very purposeful, and I

pretty much liked the rhythm of being in
school, and then, this was less true, as

a kid I liked summer obviously, because
it meant not being in school, but in

college and in grad school and stuff,
summer was always this weird amorphous

time that it was I was not as happy.

The structure went away.

Fair enough.

That's, I think, maybe that's just
coded into me, even as an adult now.

Yeah.

The summers are always a drag for me.

Interesting.

tHere we have it.

So the lenses are, bye to the haters.

That's one of the lenses.

The one star reviewers.

I hope you're listening to this.

Yeah, absolutely.

And and Stoicism as religion.

Yeah.

Yep.

I like it.

All right, and we're going to pick up
from a spot that to the reader, if you've

just listened to our last episode, will
feel like, oh, just beautiful continuity.

Of course, this is right where
they left off, but we had to

listen to our last episode to
figure out where we even left off.

We're the only ones who actually listened.

Yes.

But we believe that we have identified
the spot in book four of the meditations,

which is the 22nd bullet point of those
meditations which is where we left off.

So we're going to start there.

Number 22, not to be driven this way
and that, but always to behave with

justice and see things as they are.

Okay.

Classic.

That is a, if you just picked
a range, that is about it.

Anything striking you not to be driven
this way and that, but always to behave

with justice and see things as they are.

I think Don't ignore the reviews.

Yeah, and just strive towards justice.

What is justice when it with
respect to this podcast?

I think it's hunting down all the ones
Yeah, that's that feels right we certainly

won't be driven this way in that Yeah,
if you ordering our one star reviewers

ordering our one star reviewers and
yeah if you leave a comment that is

not helpful, we will not be swayed by
your, so we're open to good comments,

but basically bad comments are not
going to drive us off the trait, the

tracks that we're already going down.

Not one iota.

So feel free to leave them.

They won't affect us in the slightest.

Very applicable.

Okay, great.

I think this one, this is exactly
what Marcus was writing about.

The next one is also in a similar
spirit, maybe number 23 to the world.

Your harmony is mine.

Whatever time you choose
is the right time.

Not late, not early.

Okay, so this is back to, I was re
listening to the last episode, it's back

to this everything is there for a reason
fate thing that Marcus seems to have.

OkAy, so that is what
this seems to be about.

I, there's an interesting
word here though.

Harmony which is not quite, that feels
like a slightly novel different word.

I think it might be the first time
he's using that word to the world.

Your harmony is mine.

There's a, there's an implication
there of music obviously, but also it's

much more positive sounding, right?

That fate sounds, to me, or this concept
of, yes, whatever time you choose is the

right time, does sound like fatalistic
and deterministic, and this sounds like,

oh, we're, your harmony is a I don't know.

Harmony is you're working to
get, you should just ride the

wave of the world or whatever.

Yeah.

This feels a little optimistic for Marcus.

Maybe I'm misremembering him, but
that strikes me as a little more.

Flowery.

Harmony.

Yeah.

Whatever time you choose
is the right time.

Not late, not early.

Which is how this podcast
works, by the way.

As well.

The episodes are not late.

They're never early.

It was appropriate for us to take
a two and a half month break.

This is how the listener
should be treating us.

Yes.

The podcast creators.

Yes.

That's right.

We are nature with a capital M.

Yes, exactly.

Our harmony is yours.

It's your harmony.

That's right.

Yes.

Oh, that's the best framing.

Okay, great.

Oh, whoops, that one kept going.

I'm sorry, I'm looking at this.

It could have ended, but okay.

And I'm realizing that I'm
going to have to check to see

if they break on the pages.

Anyway, okay, so I'm going to
start over because it's short.

To the world, your harmony is mine.

Whatever time you choose
is the right time.

Not late, not early.

To nature, What the turn of your
seasons brings me Falls like ripe fruit.

All things are born from you,
exist in you, return to you.

The poet says, Dear city of sea crops.

Sorry.

Sorry, that's very funny for some reason.

The poet says, dear city of sea crops.

C E C R O P S Dear city of sea crops.

And then he says, I don't know
why this is so funny to me.

Can't you bring yourself to say, of Zeus.

I have no idea what he's talking about.

The poet says, Dear city of sea crops,
Can't you bring yourself to say, Of Zeus?

Sea crops is another word
for Zeus, But it's, I have no

idea what he's talking about.

And the sentence right before that?

The sentence right before
that is addressing to nature.

What the turn of your seasons
brings me, falls like ripe fruit.

Okay, this is a non sequel.

All things are born from you,
exist in you, return to you.

Okay.

And then the poet says,
dear city of seed crops.

Okay.

I have no idea what the
last sentence is about.

This has to be one of those situations
where Marcus just came back at a later

time and kept writing and then you
There's nothing we can do about it, right?

Or he's referring to some piece
of text that we don't know about.

Maybe, he's talking to the world, then
to nature, and maybe the poet that he's

referring to who starts his poem, Dear
City of Seacrops, is a poem that's about

that stuff that we just don't know about
and then he's reacting to that poem.

Okay.

It's dense.

But I don't know that
we can react to that.

Yeah.

Yeah, is that where it ends?

That's the end of that entry, yes.

Amazing.

Yes.

Yeah.

Much less We are missing some
cultural, Less coherent as a result.

Yeah.

Sometimes.

The sentence about nature is, or the two
sentences about nature are lovely, though.

That's true.

What the turn of your seasons brings me
falls like ripe fruit is very poetic.

That is nice, yeah.

And appropriate to the
conversation we were just having.

Yeah, exactly.

Except when summer comes
around and you get sour.

The ripe fruit I
appreciate is dead leaves.

Yeah.

Okay.

Alright, number 24.

If you seek tranquility, do less.

Or, parentheses, more
accurately, do what's essential.

What the logos of a social being
requires, and in the requisite way.

Which brings in double satisfaction.

To do less, better.

Because most of what we say
and do is not essential.

If you can't eliminate it, you'll
have more time and more tranquility.

Ask yourself at every
moment, is this necessary?

But we need to eliminate unnecessary
assumptions as well, to eliminate

the unnecessary actions that follow.

Yeah.

This is the kind of thing that
makes me think yeah, this is all

things that I believe already.

I think there is a nice, there is
something nice about Occam's Razor and

Reducing complexity, and it's one of
those things that I think is hard to

explain, but it just brings me joy.

Totally.

There's no way to disagree with him.

Yeah, that's true.

The question, of course,
is What is being removed?

Yeah, so which thing am I
doing that's not essential?

I can find, I agree with him because yeah.

I think all of us in our heart
feel something like, oh yeah.

Like simpler is better, yeah.

Yeah, I could cut out this stupid thing
that I do, and that would be better.

Yeah, the classic impossible.

It's too abstract to disagree with.

Yes, exactly.

And it's a staple on top of
that appealing and seductive to

something deep in our hearts.

Basically a horoscope.

Yeah, basically what
he's doing is like this.

Yeah.

It's like the classic horoscope
model where you, yes, we

all want more tranquility.

Yeah.

How can you get it?

Oh, I, let me tell you how
to get this more tranquility.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

I do, maybe it's just because I've
been away from his way of writing for

a while, but some of this, it strikes
me as very lovely, this bit at the

end of this first paragraph about
which brings a double satisfaction.

To do less, better.

Yeah, that is nice, actually.

Lovely, boy, you couldn't express
the idea more succinctly than that.

Not only are you doing less, but
you're doing a better job at it.

Yes, yeah just, and it's a funny thing.

He's modeling, his writing models the
philosophy that he's espousing here.

It is, this is, in a
way, A short paragraph.

Yeah, just.

Edited, which is what he's
proposing a certain form of

editing on your whole life.

Sure.

It's interesting because in other parts
of his text, he's terribly edited.

Of course yeah.

Yeah.

Sounds.

Number 25.

And then you might see what the
life of the good man is like.

Someone content with
what nature assigns him.

And satisfied with being
just and kind himself.

This is a lesson to our listeners.

Yes.

Is what this is.

, take it so you have come so
that you might see what the

life of some good men are like.

. Exactly.

. Oh my God.

So learn how to be just and
kind to yourselves please.

Listeners.

You're not reading anymore, are you?

No, this is me talking and just
modifying the sentence so it's

a directive to our listeners.

Yeah, no, perfect.

Yeah.

Yes.

Good.

Oh wait, I flipped back
to the, okay, great.

Number 26.

Very interesting first two sentences.

You've seen that.

Now look at this.

What?

You have my attention, Marcus.

You are inventing clickbait, I think,
in the That's right, this is, yeah.

Yeah, okay.

Don't be disturbed.

Uncomplicate to yourself.

Someone has done wrong dot to himself.

What?

Something happens to you.

Good.

It was meant for you by nature.

Woven into the pattern from the beginning.

Life is short.

That's all there is to say.

Get what you can from the
present, thoughtfully, justly.

Unrestrained moderation.

Wow.

Wait, what?

Unrestrained.

Let's read that whole thing again.

Oh boy, there's so much here.

It's maybe the most dramatic.

There's so much.

He's just, he's taken a bunch of very
dramatic rhetorical moves here and stuffed

them all into a single bullet point.

Okay.

Number 26.

You've seen that, now look at this.

Don't be disturbed.

Uncomplicate yourself.

Someone has done wrong.

To himself.

Something happens to you.

Good.

It was meant for you by nature.

Woven into the pattern from the beginning.

Life is short.

That's all there is to say.

Get what you can from the present.

Thoughtfully, justly.

Unrestrained moderation.

What do we think he means
by those last two words?

Unrestrained moderation.

It's like the joke, right?

Moderation in everything.

Including moderation.

Oh, that's funny.

Unrestrained moderation.

I actually don't know what those
two words together could mean.

I guess it feels like a response
to the joke I just made.

Where it's no, actually,
always moderation.

No exceptions even for itself.

But does that tie at all
with the other concept?

Or is he just saying a bunch of
pithy statements back to back?

Are they related to So the sentence
before that is get what you can from

the present, thoughtfully, justly.

So those feeling So moderate, yeah.

Moderation is a part of getting
what you can from the present.

Sure, so it's making peace with,
control the things you can control.

Yeah.

Okay.

Unrestrained, moderat, unrestrained.

That's a such a weird word.

Yeah.

It's like moderation in
everything would be the way I

would expect him to phrase it.

Yeah.

Unrestrained.

Is it?

Unrestrained Feels like
he's making a restrain.

Your moderation.

It feels like he's making a joke almost
with the way that's phrase, oh, sort this.

The first is joke.

Is he making it ? Have we detected
some kind of sense of humor?

Is his humor?

Maybe.

Actually, it could be.

To the extent that Those
two words together is funny.

Yeah, to the extent that we Yeah.

Peering back through this much
history can discern jokes in

the text this resembles a joke.

To me.

This is a joke?

Nice one.

Good one, Marcus.

Good one.

Wait so it's, so the joke is the
one thing you should not restrain.

Yeah.

On the concept of unrestrained,
it's just like an oxymoron.

It's the one thing that it's impossible
to imagine what it means to have

it be unrestrained is moderation.

So there's only one thing you can have.

Yeah, that's right.

So he's he's chuckling to himself that you
should, you have to restrain everything.

Yes.

Except one thing.

Oh man, what a deep joke.

Yeah, this is good stuff.

This works.

To write any joke that will translate
across 2, 000 years of history is

pretty decent, and one that's only
two words long is even better.

Yeah, to me this sounds someone in a
crowded town square standing on a box.

Like enticing the crowd.

That's what this, the beginning of
this, especially where he's saying

someone has done wrong dot to himself.

I agree.

It's him.

It seems yeah.

And also you've seen that now see this.

Don't be disturbed.

Uncomplicate yourself.

Also, it seems, or what it is
it's Scientologists or something

now trying to attract people to
you just say enough things that

someone can attribute worth to them.

Yeah.

That's nice.

Someone has done wrong to himself.

Did you, do you feel like you know
what he's talking about there?

Someone has done wrong to himself.

With a very dramatic ellipsis.

I don't know what he's talking about.

Someone?

He gets back on the rails.

As soon as he's done with that
sentence, he goes, They're like,

Something happens to you, good,
it was meant for you by nature.

We're right back in his wheelhouse.

But I don't know what he means by
someone has done wrong to himself.

It truly feels like he is practicing
attention grabbing catchphrases.

That's right.

And then he Remembers what
the point of his journal is.

That goes back unrestrained moderation.

You've done wrong by have
being I moderate, yeah.

By doing something unrestrained.

Boy, yeah, that's, yeah.

I don't, it's hard.

Must be hard to translate.

I wonder, yeah.

I wonder if this was just like.

It was smooth flowing Latin at his
time, and it was just so hard to

translate or something like that.

What this seems like to me is, I
would love to see the images of the

This feels like he's scribbling in
the margins of No, look at this!

So what has done wrong to himself
might be unclear if that should be

a separate entry from the Right.

PEace.

Yeah, I wonder how they even delineate it.

Yeah, I have bullets.

I would be fascinated.

Yeah, I wonder if there is a
surviving original text of some kind.

Yeah, we might want to just, before
the next episode, we'll take a look at

the, yeah, the, although the policy of
this podcast is, ignorance is bliss.

Yes, ignorance is strength, I believe.

Ignorance is strength, war is peace.

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

Number 27, an ordered world or a mishmash.

But, still in order.

Can there be order within you?

And not in everything else?

In things so different?

So dispersed?

So intertwined?

Woah.

Okay.

This is the whole core
idea of stoicism, again.

It's that your, everything in your
inner sanctum is nice and organized,

and everything around you, whatever.

You can't control it.

You can't control it and it's chaotic.

But what is he saying at the end?

Can there be order within you
and not in everything else?

In things so different, so
dispersed, so intertwined.

Very interesting adjectives
he's chosen there.

So yeah, he's asking this question
about I see where he's coming from.

If I'm an ordered being who exists in an
ordered world, how can that state persist?

In a disordered world, how
can that state persist?

It seems like either I should become
disordered, or the world should become

ordered, or something like that.

And he's asking, is that Why?

Do we believe yeah,
why, or how can that be?

Okay.

We're just moving on, yeah, from
there's, there doesn't seem to be

any flow between these chapters.

Bullets.

Yes, yeah, the bullets are just,
yeah he's shaping his thoughts,

and they come to him in different.

Okay, so he's questioning his own
ability to stay organized after

he said, unrestrained moderation.

Which, yeah.

So he also says, An ordered world
or a mishmash, but still an order.

Can there be order within you
and not in everything else?

So it doesn't feel like he's
at least positing the existence

of an ordered world there.

Okay, so he's not sure what the world is.

Yeah, it seems like he knows that his
philosophy is to keep himself in order.

And he hasn't totally decided
whether or not the world is ordered

or if it's some sort of mishmash
that has an order Yeah, to be fair.

He does.

I think that's the thing.

He keeps jumping between is
this Like fate or not, right?

And I don't know if he's made up his mind
on whether he thinks everything is that's

as it should be and faded or Like chaotic
and who cares you can't control it.

Yeah yeah, it's interesting that
literally the previous bullet point

He's talking about being nature weaving
the pattern from the beginning, right?

It was very Preordained really or not.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah It's interesting that seems to tear
him up so much I guess I Don't care.

Yeah.

I feel comfortable with the concept
that To the extent that stuff in

life has patterns and an order to
it, it's something that is well

beyond our ability as humans.

We can understand parts of
that pattern, but not all of

it by a long shot as humans.

So I guess he's grappling with a very
big question that maybe some of us

smaller minded humans grappling with.

And saying, yeah.

I feel like the only time you have
to grapple with stuff like that is

when The world really hurts you.

Yeah.

Because otherwise it doesn't matter.

So it's Oh.

It's also what like professional
physicists would do on a

daily basis That's true, yeah.

That's true.

If it's your job to think about
that, or if something about the

world really encroached on you and
you're trying to make sense of it.

Yeah.

Great.

Okay, my eye has just gone to the
next bullet point and it's so weird.

Okay, I'm just going to read it because
I don't know what to make of this.

Character colon.

Dark.

Womanish.

Obstinate.

Wolf.

Sheep.

Child.

Fool.

Cheat.

Buffoon.

Salesman.

Tyrant.

That is the whole entry.

So just so there were two sentences there.

Huh.

One was character colon dark womanish
obstinate, and the rest was just a list

presented as a sentence with just commas
separating wolf, sheep, child, fool, etc.

I have no idea.

Character dark womanish obstinate.

What is he talking about?

What is a woman ish?

Is that an adjective?

Is it like womanly?

Womanly?

That's what I assume.

Feminine.

Feminine is feminine.

It is written as woman ish, woman
but I'm interpreting that to

mean dark, feminine obstinate.

And then he lists a bunch of things.

Wolf.

Are those all?

I guess these are examples
of things that have a dark,

womanish, obstinate character.

A wolf?

Wolf and a sheep.

And a child and a fool.

What?

And a cheat and a buffoon
and a salesman and a tyrant.

They're all feminine.

I can maybe, okay, I'm not
Roman was not in the list.

I'm not cosigning his use of womanish
as what seems like a pejorative.

Because they tend to all,
they're basically all bad.

Yeah.

That's the thing that unites all child.

They all seem like things that in one way
or another Marcus would look down upon.

Including being a child in a way.

Not because they're evil, but just
because they're, he's an adulterer.

Yeah, he's smarter than that.

He's big.

Okay, so And he's saying the thing that
all of these have in common is being dark,

which I don't know what he means by that.

Maybe dim is what the
translation there is dim.

Yeah.

Okay.

I like that.

I feel like we're meeting him more than
halfway or the trans woman more than

halfway by interpreting it that way.

But I would co-sign saying that all,
although calling children are not

children, DIMMs children are dimm.

That makes total sense.

That's the problem with dark children
are not dark, but they're dimm, but

they are dim, they're pretty dumb.

So salesmen and tyrant are the last two.

We feel that those are dimm.

I can see how he would hate those.

Like tyrants are dark.

But you could, he might
also think they're dim.

Yeah, yeah, wouldn't he?

He probably would, yeah.

Yeah, if anyone, yeah.

Salesmen are What are salesmen
in his world, by the way?

I think he looks down on them.

I think we're being told that, that, yeah.

And I think to me, salesman
actually has, is a slightly more

negative phrasing than merchant.

Salesman sounds like
you're fleecing people.

Okay, that sounds more like dark than
dim, but Maybe he just thinks children

are evil, and then everything makes sense.

We need separate entries
for fool and buffoon.

A buffoon.

To me, meaning the
same, what is a buffoon?

I only know it as like a silly word.

Yeah.

Just a silly man is what I think.

Yeah.

Particularly somebody who's like the butt
of the joke or is like very, a clown is

a buffoon because they're performative
and their, the humor is at their expense.

Intentionally funny.

Yeah.

And with, and the key thing is that the
humor is at their expense, I feel like.

Okay.

And that's different than a fool.

I don't know how.

I guess just fool is a more
to me all encompassing term.

Just not smart.

Okay.

I don't like calling all
these groups womanish.

I think Romans were very patriarchal.

Yeah.

I think women were just
like worse in their view.

Yeah.

Boy, that's a bummer.

Yeah.

And certainly, calling
back to the first book.

Obviously, Marcus's world where he's
having that sort of gratitude journal

was mostly, it seems populated by men.

Yeah.

Obstinate is also a weird word.

I guess I agree with it for
children are obstinate is one of

his observations, which, okay,
yeah, I can get there with you.

Yeah.

Yeah, obstinate.

Yeah.

Okay.

A fool.

This next entry, boy, he is really playing
with the format of this journal a lot.

The next entry is a, is, he is
providing definitions for six words.

It's in the style of a dictionary entry.

Awesome.

Where it says a word and then
the part of speech that it is and

then the definition of the word.

Okay.

So I'm gonna read that
as sensibly as I can.

Number 29.

Alien.

Noun.

One who doesn't know what the
world contains or how it operates.

Fugitive, now.

One who evades his obligations to others.

Blind, adjective.

One who keeps the eyes
of his mind shut tight.

Poor, adjective.

Requiring others, not having
the necessities of life

in one's own possession.

Rebel, now.

One who is rebellious.

One who withdraws from the Logos of
Nature because he resents its workings.

It produced you, now it produces this.

Schismatic.

Now.

What?

One who separates his own soul
from others with the Logos.

They should be one.

Okay.

The soul should be one.

Okay.

The soul and the Logos are one.

I think he's saying.

One who separates his own soul
from others with the Logos.

So I think he's saying, your souls
and others souls, your soul and

others souls should be together.

But you're using, this guy,
a schism, a schismatic.

Yeah, but it's also very strange to me
that he's using schismatic as the noun.

Yeah.

I guess he's saying that a person
is a schismatic if they do this.

Okay, so he's giving these I think he's
giving, I think he's doing another joke.

Yeah, he's doing jokes.

Yeah, okay, we've reached the part
of the book where Marcus does jokes.

Yeah, he becomes a clown.

Yeah, file this podcast
under humor, please.

So I couldn't, my like, modern politically
correct mind immediately jumped to he

insults blind people for It's strange.

It does seem like their mind's
eye closed or something.

Yeah.

The eyes of his mind shut tight.

Yeah, exactly.

I think And he insults poor
people for depending on others.

. okAy.

A more generous reading maybe would,
he is insulting them, but I think he's

saying something like, you can be blind
without being blind in the way that we're

all accustomed to thinking about blind.

Those who foreclose their mind to
the possibilities of the philosophy

I mis passing or whatever.

Are also blind, basically.

Yeah.

And so this thing has a
literal, he's using a metaphor.

I see.

So he doesn't actually mean blind people.

Yes.

Okay.

But he means actually, he
actually means poor people.

Requiring others not having
the necessities of life

in one's own possession.

Oh, Tom!

I think he's doing
metaphors for all of them.

I think that, oh, I think you're right.

Yes, okay, should I go through
them again, given that we now

realize that these are metaphors?

Yeah, let's do it.

Okay, fine.

Alien, now.

One who does not know what the
world contains or how it operates.

Okay, so you're a stranger
in this land, right?

If you don't, if you're not catching on
to how this all works, basically, okay.

You will be an alien if
you don't figure that out.

It's like an insult.

It's like regular people who think,
who aren't aliens, obviously.

Yes.

And, but this behaving this
way makes you this Yes.

Bad thing.

Yes.

You think I'm gonna call you?

Yes, exactly fugitive.

Yeah, you're a fugitive not just be
if you run away from the law But if

you in his definition one who evades
his obligations to others, right

that makes you a fugitive, right?

So he's redefining these words to
right make them describe his fault

Okay, that makes sense blind one who
keeps the eyes of his mind shut tight.

So not necessarily the physically
blind poor requiring others not

having the necessities of life
in one's own possession, right So

anyone who, yeah, anyone who needs
others in his estimation is poor.

I have to say, this is a
place Marcus where he and I.

Part ways.

There's a lot I agree with you about.

Sounds like a poor mindset.

This one, I can't get there with you.

Rebel, noun.

One who is rebellious, cop out.

Editors know, cut that part Marcus.

Rebel.

One who is rebellious, one who
withdraws from the logos of nature

because he resents its workings.

Parenthesis, it produced
you, now it produces this.

Yeah, so you're a rebel if you don't.

Except the way of the world.

Yeah makes sense.

Schismatic the one we've
already talked about.

Rebel doesn't seem like a bad thing,
but I guess to him Yeah, it's funny.

If he thinks of these as six
equally bad insults It's very funny

because some of them, one of them
is a word we've never heard of.

Yeah.

And several feel neutral to us Yeah.

Yeah So Tom.

Yeah.

You have to come up with an
additional one to add to this list.

Okay, Let's see what other Kind of
thing does he or what other kind of

thing would have been an insult in his
era that I can Or it can be modern era.

Okay, but I'm trying to think
what else would he despise yeah

Okay, I'm ready so

He talks about not disliking people
who like preached little sermons that

was one of my yes phrases of his yes
and he seems to dislike salesmen.

Yes.

So salesman, one who preaches
little sermons left and right.

Okay.

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.

This is a good podcast.

Previously as

The one that I'm working on in my mind
is something about being lost, basically.

There's like a literal
definition of someone who's lost.

I guess that's like exactly one.

He already has none of these
are exactly that concept.

But basically there's all this notion of
being like, you are flung into the cruel,

chaotic world, and you can be lost, or you
can say this is exactly where I belong.

So someone who's lost is like Someone who
is not doesn't accept where they fit in

nature's fabric or something like that.

That's my addition.

Yeah, that sounds like
something he would say.

The definition, yeah.

Very good.

We just added to the journal.

Yes.

Okay, cool.

Yeah.

So now this new format for the
podcast is we add the bullet

points we feel are insufficient
as they're currently constructed.

Yeah.

So sometimes we will, we'll just
like a red pen and just jot some

stuff into the little gaps he
leaves between the bullet points.

Editor's notes.

Yeah.

Okay.

Number 30.

A philosopher without clothes
and one without books.

I have nothing to eat, says he,
as he stands there half naked,

but I subsist on the Logos.

And with nothing to read,
I subsist on it too.

This one's like a riddle, I
think, wait, so this is a joke.

So two philosophers meet in a bar.

One has no clothes, and
the other has no books.

Yeah.

I have nothing to eat, says he,
as he stands there half naked.

But I subsist on the logos.

I see.

And, okay, and the philosopher
with nothing to read.

I subsist on it too.

tHe point is that I think

That's so weird.

The premise is that one has no
clothes, and the one has no books.

But the first thing either one
says is, I have nothing to eat.

Which is not either of those things.

I don't think it's a riddle.

Or, cause it doesn't, it's
not a funny it's not a riddle.

It's phrased like a riddle.

I think what he's basically saying is
like They all subsist on the logos.

Logos is the, sustains both of them.

And so the joke is you think
there's a difference between

this guy, the philosopher,
without the clothes, and joke.

It's a classic anti joke.

It's something, it's a setup
that you expect to turn into

something, and then it doesn't.

It halfway got there.

It just feels like you fucked up the joke.

An anti joke would have a
clearer Non joke ending.

This one is uncomfortably in the
middle, because it's close to the

ending of an actual joke, is my feeling.

If it said, a philosopher without food,
and one without books, and then the guy

without food said, I have nothing to eat,
but I subsist on the logos, and the other

guy said, I have nothing to read, but
I also subsist on the Logos, basically.

That it's as essential to us, or more
essential to us than either of those.

Yeah, so the fact about him not
having clothes was irrelevant.

Or maybe Marcus equates clothes with food.

That seems to be what's going on in this.

. I have nothing to eat.

Boy, this is a riddle for the ages.

Yeah.

Wow.

Okay.

I like that he's working out new stuff.

He's really, he's what if I do comedy?

What if I write jokes?

What if I write riddle?

He's testing the waters.

Yeah.

Philosopher, he tried.

I think the thing we're meant to take
away is you can subsist on the logos.

A philosopher, the logos to a
philosopher is more essential

than clothes or books or food.

What's the Logos?

It's he started using that word
a lot, like two chapters ago.

He has, I agree.

Logic.

Yeah, Logos of Nature, he uses a lot.

I think it, yeah, I think it's
logic, but I think it's also

Nature's Law, or something like that
is how I'm interpreting it, too.

These philosophers subsist
on the laws of nature.

I guess.

Yeah, that's what they're
thinking about all day.

These ones in particular, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Number 31.

Love the discipline you
know, and let it support you.

Entrust everything willingly to the gods,
and then make your way through life.

No one's master, and no one's slave.

Okay.

Yeah, standard Marcus thought.

Love the discipline and let
it support you is interesting.

That one's a little bit new, yeah.

What does he mean by discipline?

I mentally inserted the word like habits.

Yeah, I think that's
Into that sentence, yeah.

I think that's right, and I think
it's interesting because it's actually

a bit different from the notion of
Love the discipline you know, to me,

in modern English, has a slightly
different meaning, which is more Like

you've chosen a specialty in your life.

Yeah.

Love like that's discipline in the
sense of specialty, as opposed to, I

think I agree more with your reading
of it as habits, but connected with the

previous one, to me, there's another
reading of this, which is Hey, listen.

I'm a philosophy guy who likes
thinking about this Logos nature stuff.

That's my thing.

Love that.

One of my things is to just
love that and let it support me.

And not, not worry about Pluto clothes.

And yeah, not think about
the other stuff, yeah.

Okay.

So maybe that's another way of parsing it.

Nice.

And Marcus chose war as his discipline.

Yeah, that's yeah, that's interesting
that he, That feels almost at odds, right?

Because he's So frequently, it's the world
will hand you its challenges and you will,

it's often not about you making choices
to love something or something like that.

I guess in some ways, this
discipline has been handed to you.

And so it's not making a choice.

No.

Yeah, okay.

It's just love, love what you have.

Yeah.

Eh, loosely.

And let it support you.

Yeah.

Don't push it away.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Standard.

Okay, boy.

Number 32.

The age of Vespasian, for example.

Boy.

People doing the exact same things, colon.

Marrying, raising children, getting sick,
dying, waging war, throwing parties,

doing business, farming, flattering,
boasting, distrusting, plotting, hoping

others will die, complaining about their
own lives, falling in love, putting away

money, seeking high office and power.

And that life they led
is nowhere to be found.

Okay.

Or Whoa!

Yep.

The Age of Trajan.

The exact same things.

Trajan, yep.

Trajan.

Huh.

The exact same things.

And that life, too.

Gone.

Survey the records of other eras,
and see how many others gave their

all, and soon died, and decomposed
into the elements that formed them.

But most of all, run through the
list of those who you knew yourself.

Those who worked in vain, who failed
to do what they should have, what

they should have remained fixed
on and found satisfaction in.

A key point to bear in mind, the
value of attentiveness varies

in proportion to its object.

You're better off not giving the small
things more time than they deserve.

Wow.

Back to business.

We had some jokes, but no more jokes.

I see all these dumbasses running around.

Yeah.

Okay.

There's a lot there.

I feel like I should Yeah.

Yeah.

So he starts with this list of
things that stupid people do.

The age of Vespasian, yes.

Falling in love, putting away money,
seeking high office and power.

Yeah.

Some of these things I would
think he would find noble.

Yeah.

No, he thinks falling in love is, that
led to a life that is nowhere to be found.

Yeah.

Jesus.

This is a very callous entry for him,
where he's also saying, yeah, think

about all the people, in your life, waste
essentially wasted their lives and are

now dead and decomposing the age of maybe
he's not actually dissing these things.

Maybe he's saying, okay, falling in
love, putting away money, those were

all things that you cared a lot about
at the time, and now you're decomposing.

Because he goes on to talk about Trajan,
who I think, generally, he admires.

I see.

From the beginning, he really talked
a lot of good stuff about Trajan.

And then he laments that
Trajan is also gone now.

I see.

So maybe he's contrasting the two.

Maybe Vespasian sucked, and Trajan was
good, and he's saying Hey, actually

life consisted of the same thing or
like sure it all washed out kind of

it all washed out and So survey the
records of other eras and see how

many others gave their all and soon
died and decompose into the elements

Okay so we're doing this mortality thing.

Yeah.

He's got a sort of, it has a
sort of Ozymandias vibe to me.

Look upon my works ye mighty,
and despair, and et cetera, et

cetera, but it's all destroyed.

The point being, like he's saying
survey history, everyone's dead.

No matter how great they seemed at
the time, they're all, it's all, yep.

It didn't matter.

Is that what the
Ozymandias quote is about?

I thought it was just him
showing off how cool he is.

Oh, you should read the
next two lines of the poem.

Because this is the inscription
at the base of a statue.

Huh.

And we're in the desert where
there's nothing else around.

Okay.

So the point is, the statue was in a place
once long ago that says, he's saying, Look

upon my works and it's supposed to be.

Oh, I see.

It was in this formerly beautiful place.

So it was him showing
off and now it's ironic.

Yes, exactly.

I see, yeah.

Ye mighty and despair.

I love this idea of looking upon
someone else's works and despairing.

Yeah.

It's sick.

It's one of the best English
sentences I've ever written.

Okay, cool.

Sorry.

So back to this.

So they all died and what they should have
done is remained fixed and found fixed on

the things that they are focused on their
disciplines and found satisfaction in it.

Yeah, I'm a little confused.

I guess he's implying that the
people in both of these ages that

he's previously referring to, all
these activities are about desire.

They're all about putting away money
or seeking power or falling in love

are all actions that are informed by
wanting, it seems and so he's saying

that they all did these foolish things.

And that, that they were all
just running around like chickens

with their head cuts off.

I'm surprised he groups trajan into it.

Maybe his mind about Trajan
has been, has changed.

I thought he was a big fan of 'em, but he
could also be saying like, even in great

times, even in the age of Trajan, yeah.

There were all these people who were
running around doing stupid stuff.

I don't necessarily, not Trajan himself.

Just, yeah.

It, the sentence is just
people doing these things, not.

Yeah.

Okay, so this is back to the part of
Marcus that I really have the hardest

time getting behind, which is his
like, manic race for the finish line,

your legend matters all that stuff.

Yeah, I agree.

It's the, it's very
fatalistic feeling too.

Yeah.

Where he's just fixated on I, I
do like all of these entries seem

to have one sentence where I'm
like, Ooh that's a nice sentence.

The value of attentiveness varies in
proportion to its object is a nice way of

It's like the way a physicist or like a
scientist, would that the phrase say that

It's a very scientific way of saying it.

Yeah.

But it's nice.

Yeah.

And then he explains it in like a,
the way, like a blogger would say,

it would explain it in afterwards.

You're better off not giving the
small things more time than they

deserve in the very plain English.

Yes.

I like all that.

I agree with you that the, I find
the beginning part a little, maybe

he would just accuse me of being
caught up in the same thing as

these people from those other ages.

Yeah, he doesn't offer much
of an alternative in this

chapter or this bullet.

They should have, yeah, remained
fixed on and found satisfaction.

He gave us the bullet before where
it's, yeah, there's some discipline,

and what you're supposed to do is
just lean into that discipline.

And I guess don't do any of
these things, which to me seem.

Don't fall in love.

Don't throw parties.

Don't do business.

Don't farm.

Sometimes you're a little bit of a crank.

Yeah.

Marcus.

Seems like a sad way to live.

Yeah.

Last chapter?

Yeah, we'll do one more here.

Number 33.

Oh, wow, boy, this is an
interesting observation.

Words once in common
use now sound archaic.

Lol.

He's not completely without
some self awareness.

That's not the end of the entry.

Okay, yeah, I figured.

But, yes, he's got some awareness.

Boy, what words sounded archaic
to Marcus I would like to know.

And the names of the famous
dead as well sound archaic.

Camillus.

cso, ESUs Datis.

Wow.

Sipo Andto, Augustus Hadian and antoninus.

Antoninus and dot.

Everything fades so quickly.

Turns into legend and
soon oblivion covers it.

Yeah.

And those are the ones who shown Yeah.

The rest unknown.

Unasked for a minute after death.

What is eternal fame?

Emptiness.

Then what should we work for?

Only this, Colin.

Proper understanding, unselfish
action, truthful speech.

A resolve to accept whatever happens
as necessary and familiar, flowing like

water from that same source and spring.

Okay.

That's nice.

Yeah.

I'm way more on board with this concept.

Here that truth and unselfishness for
their own sake might be worth pursuing

in life, even though Legacy won't be
remembered for oblivion is coming for all

of us Maybe this is what marcus has been.

This is the core concept.

He's been trying to get at the whole
time I keep thinking that he wants to be

remembered Yeah, and I want to believe
I want to say that's because he said

things that sound like that But I think
this is the thing he's come back to

more often Which is those things don't
matter and I think this was a big deal

for Romans because they had this legend
worship, like family legend worship thing,

the Caesar had the room of ancestors.

Yeah.

So I think he's, this is
a big realization for him.

Yeah.

Is that actually, I don't care.

I should just be a good guy.

This feels yeah, throwing off the burdens
of legacy and stuff that he must have

been dealing with from a very young age.

It's pretty intense.

Imagine growing up in a society
where that is normalized.

Yeah.

And there is this pressure on
you, the emperor need to just

anyone, just you as a Madison.

Yeah.

This is what your ancestors accomplished.

What have you, like you're
going to be on this wall.

Add to that.

Yeah.

What is your, what is
your byline going to say?

Yeah.

YEah.

Crazy.

Yes.

Not a kind of pressure that I
normally experience in particular.

Yeah.

But yes, I like the way he's phrasing
at the end, what he thinks is actually,

which I feel like he doesn't often
do this, as you're pointing out.

Much more frequently, he criticizes
the way people live their

lives and so on and so forth.

He doesn't spend a ton of time dwelling on
what should we work for, and this, where

he says only this, proper understanding,
unselfish action, truthful speech.

End of list.

Yeah.

That's pretty nice.

That's nice.

Yeah.

It's pretty controllable.

All those things are things
you can control, which is nice.

Yep.

And they're I can see why
they're beautiful and worth

pursuing in their own right, too.

Sort of totally independent of legacy.

Yeah.

That's true.

Nice one, Marcus.

Should we wrap it up there?

Let's wrap it.

Okay.

Thanks, Marcus.

Cool, yeah.

Appreciate it, Marcus.

If anyone Give us a review
that is not one star will know.

Yeah, and we'll be so grateful Yeah,
the amount of positive attention

We maybe haven't drilled enough the
amount of positive attention that good

reviews will receive on this podcast.

Oh, yeah is Yeah you'll
You'll just see what you get.

There's only one way to find it.

Yes expect some major positive
recognition if you give us a Five star

review, not four stars to be clear.

Five star review.

We'll get some.

We should be able to achieve four
star just with Tom's five star review.

Yes, but I'm saying any individual
reviewer who gives us a five star

review should at least get some
kind of shout out on the podcast.

Yeah.

Plus, yeah some other TBD recognition.

Leave your address in a comment.

Yes, yeah.

That's a bad idea.

Don't do that on the internet.

Yeah.

But something.

Yeah, you get in contact with us.

Thanks everyone.

Bye.

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