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This podcast is dedicated to changing the automotive industry for the better, one conversation at a time.
Whether you're a technician, vendor, business owner, or car enthusiast, we hope to inspire you to improve for your customers, your careers, your businesses, and your families.
David Roman 0:00
I see now we're recording to find our recording.
Lucas Underwood 0:04
Is this what friendship really is?
Shasta Nelson 0:05
Well, we need to get into that guy's when you were out of the room I asked him, How long have you been friends? And what was his? What was your answer? David?
David Roman 0:13
Several Years I Love Lucas.
Shasta Nelson 0:18
Or something like Well friends might be calling going to start guys. How long have you guys been friends?
Lucas Underwood 0:29
Oh Lord, I didn't even know we were friends. We tolerate each other pretty well, though. Introduce yourself.
Shasta Nelson 0:36
My name is Shasta Nelson, and I am a friendship expert. And so I speak and write books and teach, take kind of all the research on healthy relationships and try to synthesize it for what the impact it can have in our lives.
Lucas Underwood 0:49
That is pretty cool. So like, what got you here? Where did that pathway
Shasta Nelson 0:54
come? You know, it was like, over a decade ago, when I was looking around, I was doing a lot of coaching and a lot of life growth with people. And I was asking them, like, who's supporting you in these goals? You know, whether it was usually career goals, or maybe it just their personal lives had just fallen apart? And I was like, Who are your friends who's supporting you? You know, what are people telling you about this idea to start a business, and I knew that their success depended upon how supportive they felt. And I just kept hearing this repetitive theme of like, well, I don't really talk to people about this, or there's not really anybody I confide in, or I moved, or I went through a divorce and haven't really found my people again. And so I kept hearing this common theme. And yet, it's so interesting, none of them were hiring me for relationships that they were all hiring me for all these other big goals in life. And yet I, you know, we our success is tied to how supported we feel our happiness, and we can get into the research, we it is virtually impossible to be happy if we don't feel loved and supported in our lives. If we care about physical health, if we care about mental health, like friendships, and relationships are a core to everything. And yet, you look around our culture, and most of us are obsessed with parent child relationships, or romantic relationships, and we just kind of treat friendships, which is the bulk of the relationships in our lives as an afterthought. So yeah, I kept being like, why is nobody talking about this? And you can only say that so many times. I'm sure that's how you guys got your podcast started. And you're just like, Okay, let's start talking about Exactly, yeah,
Lucas Underwood 2:14
yeah. And so, I mean, that really resonates. And, you know, Kent was in just a few minutes ago, and he kind of alluded to the fact that, that, you know, shop owners as a whole, and technicians as a whole, are this giant industry. And we've got these Facebook groups, and we've got these things where we all kind of come together. But it's it's a very, very, very small percentage, right. And so a little of my backstory is, is that I kind of felt like I was on an island. As a shopper. I felt like, you know, well, nobody knows how I feel. Yeah, nobody understands how I feel. And I would talk to people and they just didn't, they didn't have the the data, if you will, right when we talked because they just didn't understand what it was that I was going through. Yeah. And so my personal experience with that was I joined a Facebook group, and I realized that other people were going through exactly what I was going through. Right. And so it made sense. And then I found this dangerous. Set your official title for this show. Dyngus
David Roman 3:13
fingers isn't healthy, isn't.
Shasta Nelson 3:19
It is you both have smiles on your faces. So so far, so good,
David Roman 3:23
but I'm broken inside. I'm sad. After this, I go cry.
Shasta Nelson 3:29
This is gonna be a long podcast, I have a lot to say to you guys. Know, but I so I'm so glad you're presencing that because when we use the word lonely, most of us don't identify with that word, very few of us are walking around just being like, Oh, I'm so lonely. Because we're it's easy to be like, I have friends i i know people I could call so and so if I really needed them. And yet, what you're describing is an aspect of loneliness. It's where we don't feel like we have anyone to confide in or that no one really gets us or that we don't really have any support in this certain area of life. And so it's really important. I mean, I'm, I could be a total data nerd here. But it's like if we feel disconnected, and we don't take that seriously. It's like when we feel lonely or that desire to be more connected. That's the same thing as our body sending us a message that we're hungry and we need food and just being hungry isn't fatal, but it's fatal if you don't get the need met. And similarly, the research is just so. So huge. I mean, another massive study just came out last week, like for longevity for health, like you have to feel supported and connected. And so that that Inkling you had where you were like, I feel like I'm on an island. Right? That's a really great phrase to share. It's a great thing for all of us to say more of us feel that than not it's normal, unfortunately. But let's do something about it. And like I love that you then use that to be like okay, I'm hungry. Let's go make some let's go make some food.
Lucas Underwood 4:46
Exactly. And I think that that all too often, right? We're big brass shop owners, right? And we're not supposed to fill any sort of way. Right? And so you just go to work and I fix the cars and I go home, right? And so like, you know, our friendship, he'll call me and be like, dude, they scratched the hood on a car today. And it sucks. Because like, you know that business is your baby. Yeah, care about that business. Yeah, it's embarrassing. It sucks when something bad happens. And so he calls and he says, and I'm like, Man, I know, they just yesterday, they just put a part on the car that was supposed to fix the noise, and it didn't fix the noise for the second day in a row. And in the same respect, it was somebody who had just said, I'm so happy that I can come here, and I don't have to come multiple times to get something like, ah, you know, and so I think that, that, that opportunity to voice that, that opportunity to share that, and in such a sense that you don't have to worry about somebody being like, you know, Judge, you're not I mean, I take that all back. I'm more
David Roman 5:48
of a, it's more of a modern problem, you think?
Shasta Nelson 5:52
No, I mean, it's really interesting. If you look back through history, like, you know, hundreds of years ago, men were the ones who were the only ones could be trusted to have friendships, they were the only ones that had the time, the spaciousness that could leave the house had the means to go hang out. Women weren't doing that it was kind of like, and then it's really interesting to watch over the years. You know, now at least, I've had to work really hard at saying this is not a women's issue, we've kind of treated friendship, like women need it more than men. And, but I feel like we really have not ever been in a place where just all of us are saying this is a human need, that needs to be taken seriously. And it's worth prioritizing. It's worth planning our lives around, it's worth bringing to our shops, it's worth making sure that we are making this happen in our lives. I I don't think it's a modern problem. I think it's a modern realization that we're naming better. You know, you there are some statistics that show over the decades, it's getting worse. So for sure social media is contributing to that moving, we're moving more frequently, our mental health is getting poor. So we show up a little bit differently. You know, we just have a lot more likely a lot higher church attendance, or a bowling league involvement or being a part of the elk group, or you know, so a lot more community organizations. So certainly there are things that are kind of our structures are changing. And so they're
David Roman 7:07
looking at it like that. There was a bigger sense of community years ago, that I think we've lost,
Shasta Nelson 7:14
yes, on some level. And but on the other hand, like what you're talking about, Lucas, where you're talking about, like being able to call each other. That's vulnerability, and we haven't always been known doing that as a culture very well. So relationships used to get a generation or two above us, and they weren't really sharing their lives with each other. So they were doing barbecues or getting together an event. So there is there's different levels, I think, is what we're saying of community, there's like social gatherings, it's belonging to your neighborhood is belonging to your association. It's feeling like your shop has a community feel that they can come in, and you have relationships with them. And that's different than having somebody that you can confide in and go to and so we need both, and we need all.
Lucas Underwood 7:49
Yeah, I mean, I can see that, right. Like, I mean, you know, the the, for instance, you go and you look at my dad, my dad is less willing to share, when something doesn't go the way he expected it to go. Totally. He just says I've got it, don't worry about it. It's fine. Yeah.
Shasta Nelson 8:04
And I just want to apologize to all the men in the world, we have done a horrible job as a culture, encouraging men to do friendships, modeling it, giving permission to it, telling you it's normal and healthy to need. And so we have a lot of men, who the only really intimate relationships in their lives are usually with a romantic partner. I think that contributes to why after death and divorce, men notoriously tend to get married sooner than women. And I think it's because the only place we've allowed you collectively to have vulnerability and intimacy and close friendships is in romantic relationships with other women often and so we really need to change that because it's it's hurting your life collectively. Not you guys specifically, but yeah, just it's a big, we haven't modeled that to men to your father, but even that generation just entirely, we've got to keep doing better.
Lucas Underwood 8:50
So when we, when we talk about the numbers, you brought up the statistics a few times we're number nerds Hold on,
David Roman 8:58
okay. Hold on.
David Roman 9:05
We are really mean to each other. I say some awful things to him. Because, because it's funny, and we
Lucas Underwood 9:14
that's our that's our thing.
David Roman 9:17
I've never had a male friend that, like I say things to you that I wouldn't say to my wife. I consider my wife, my best friend. Right? Yeah. And you know, part of it is like you get spent a lot of time, right. But like there's certain things I just don't say to her, but I'll say to him all day long. I have no problem with it. And but I see the shift though, in that. I talked to a lot of guys, men. I say that loosely and they they want to be vulnerable. Yes. And they want to make a connection. The need is there. But but the the approach they take yes is very feminine. Tell me more. I don't know how other way to say, there, they they approach it in a very sensitive manner. Like, hey, I'm being really vulnerable with you, let's share it, let's hug this out. Let's cry it out. And, you know, he gets into some sort of why. And, you know, we're sharing some some heavy things. Yeah, they're heavy. But, you know, like, we crack jokes about it. And we say horrible things to each other. Yeah. Like, you know, I made that comment about that singer. And, you know, he's like, you do that? Yeah, I know, you know, I don't want to say it. Because, you know, it's
Lucas Underwood 10:53
terrible. Yeah,
David Roman 10:54
it's a horrible thing. But, like we said something like, it was it was messed up. I couldn't
Lucas Underwood 11:01
draw in the droves of depression of owning a repair shop. You know it?
David Roman 11:05
No, it's, it's not even that it's just it's that, that kind of banter, okay. You're more comfortable with it. Because we're friends, right? But even if we're not friends, I find myself having to not shy have to shy away from making a connection with another man. But I have to be very careful of how I approach it. Going in my mind, and maybe this is just all wrong. And that's what I'm asking is, is I find it that it's not particularly masculine, to not be able to cut up about it. You see what I'm saying? And it's, it's almost, I don't know, for example, that comment Rick made to, to your friend there. That was overly insensitive, but the relationship almost wasn't there. And I think once you get to appointment, a certain relationship, you know, what line not the cross? Yeah, I'm not saying there's no line. There's always lines, you can't cross. But I'm just saying like, sometimes, I don't know. It, just the the
Lucas Underwood 12:22
perception of the relationship, the start of the relationship is hard to find.
David Roman 12:26
It's not even that it's like even if you make a good connection that I just, I find that they, they're overly soft.
Lucas Underwood 12:36
Well, but I mean, here's the thing. I don't know how it is, I understood what you're saying, well, here's, here's the way I see that though, is like, so when I joined this Facebook group, right? I went in and asked a question a bunch of people just absolutely tore me apart, right? Because it was a stupid question. And David comes in, he's like, Hey, listen, don't listen to those people. They're stupid, I'll help you. Just ignore it. Right? Because he saw that it affected like I wasn't going to engage in the group anymore. Make sense?
David Roman 13:03
With that's online, though, and I understand we'll say horrible things online to each other that they wouldn't say in person. I'm saying that those horrible things people say online, I say to your face.
Lucas Underwood 13:14
And I appreciate that. But I mean, my point is, is that that like, there's people that I feel comfortable being like that with can't can walk through the door. And I've not known cat, but maybe like in person a year, year and a half, something like that. And I feel comfortable having those deep conversations with Ken, because he's one of those people that you can have that conversation with, I felt comfortable having those conversations with David. There's people that I have I feel comfortable having conversations with. And then there's some people that I don't know if I feel they're closed off, or I don't know if they're afraid or anxious to have the conversation. But I just don't feel like I could say that to them. Yep. Right. And I will practice being like vulnerable with people and sharing. And I practice on the show of saying like, Hey, I feel this way about this, right? Because I don't like I feel better when I do that. Long story short, and all the listeners know this. I had an anxiety disorder I went through, and I learned that the reason that I developed such a terrible anxiety was is that I kept like hiding. Yes. And so I was putting it back and I never faced it. I never dealt with it. So the fears got bigger and bigger and bigger. The frustrations got bigger. So I have learned like, hey, just say how you feel. Just put it out there. Yeah, there are some people I don't feel comfortable doing that with what's the difference?
Shasta Nelson 14:30
Yep. Okay, so so much stuff going on here. And I love it all. And yeah, so So one of the Dave this goes back to my original Apology of like, we have not modeled healthy men's friendships in this culture very well at all. And so it's going to feel unfamiliar, it's going to feel weird to some of us, it's going to feel like because that's how we do it. One of the really powerful research studies and Roe v Wade wrote a book, studying friendship with little boys and little girls and we did friendship almost exactly the same little boys will say oh, he's my best friend. I love him. You And they'll hug each other and they'll feel really, really close. And then something happens around puberty, usually like where it's not cool to be a girl. And so like sexism is hurting girls, but it's also hurting boys. Because around puberty, boys are starting to now we'd hit each other, and we slap each other. And we joke around and we make fun of each other in the locker room. And so we start seeing them do friendship differently, we also see the suicide rate go up, we also see boys starting to stuff their feelings and get more anxiety stuff. And so I wouldn't say that what's normal for boys and men's friendship is what we want to list as our best practices. I think what we want to name is that what we want are healthy relationships for everybody, that being close is a human need. And you know how to do this, you build it with your with your wife, who you said is your best friend, you don't make fun of her probably the same way you make fun of Lucas, you're capable of having a more intimate relationship, I'm guessing without having to make fun of her or hurt her feelings are so
Lucas Underwood 15:56
ugly because she's meaner than I know. If I said the things we said my wife would be me or she's in gym, my wife, which is bury me, right, like I would vanish? I wouldn't exist anymore.
David Roman 16:11
I guess it's not it's, it's not even that it's just like you you have. I think a lot of I have found me personally, there are a lot of guys that do want to make the connection. But I find that I have to, I have to filter that interaction. And I have to test it out and see, can we make a good connection here? In that I can be how I am you can be how you are? Or am I going to be constantly worried about hurting your feelings? Totally. And, and it's not? It's not that that I can't be that way with my wife I can be. It's just that, you know, at the same time, it's like, I know if I say this, I'm going to hurt her feelings. I don't want to hurt her feelings. So I'm just not gonna say it. I don't. I mean, there's certain things I don't say to him, because it's like, am I trying to be funny? Or am I trying to hurt you? Yeah. So you, you do filter yourself? I'm not saying that you just say whatever the hell you say to that person. But I find that now. especially younger, I'm 42. So I'm talking about like, mid 20s, even early 30s. You have to be really careful how you approach the conversation with that person? Yes, with other men in particular.
Shasta Nelson 17:34
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of new territory for a lot of men and for women too. And I mean, like, what I can talk about maybe would be helpful as for us to talk about what makes a healthy relationship and how they're developed. Because that might help give some framework to all of us as we're kind of thinking through those relationships. So what I hear you saying is like, there's nothing wrong with you saying, I love a friendship where we can joke around and kid around, and I feel comfortable doing that. And that is a great quality to relationships. So there's three requirements, when we look at all the social studies around what Bond's us to each other, there's three things that always have to be present. So you have never had a healthy relationship without these three things. And conversely, anybody you feel close to, it's because you had these three things present. We can use different words for the three things. But basically, the three things are positive emotions, consistent time and vulnerability. And so positive emotions, I draw it out on a triangle and I put positivity on the bottom of the triangle as the foundation. So one of your ways of loving positivity is like being able to joke around being able to laugh being able to feel like we're not taking ourselves too seriously. Other forms of positive emotions is feeling do I do I leave this person's presence feeling more hopeful? Do I feel proud when I'm with them? Do we? Do we feel inspired? Do we laugh together? Do we do acts of service for each other? Do we support each other? Do they show empathy do there's like 1000 positive emotions that we all want to feel. And at the foundation, if we aren't getting five, five positive emotions, for every negative emotion in a relationship, we aren't going to keep gravitating to it. So it's okay for you to say, my forms of positivity are these, you know, all of us, I tend to be somebody who affirms really easily, it's fine for me to compliment I love finding that that comes naturally to me, I'm naturally a grateful person, like I'm going to have certain tools that I go to, to help increase the positive emotions in my relationships, you have yours that you will often rely on. And all of us need to do is make sure we have many tools in the tool chest to say, My number one job description in a friendship or any relationship is how am I adding value to this person's life? How am I making sure that they leave my presence feeling more loved, more accepted, more liked? And so if you guys have figured out how to do that with each other, that's awesome. And I think other people would have different ways of doing it. And so, you know, we're gonna gravitate to people who we might enjoy their way of doing it. But at the end of the day, we have to feel positive emotions in our relationships, or we're going to keep going to them.
Lucas Underwood 19:48
Well, and so, you know, you bring up something that's, that's interesting to me, because at the end of the day, you know, you talk about in the automotive business that you don't know what you don't know. Right. And so it almost Seems like until you start to flesh out this concept of friendship, and begin to understand what is friendship? And how does friendship work, that you may not have all the tools that you need totally to fully engage this and understand and you may not, you know, I think friendship is one of those things that often is, is, I don't want to use the term Silent Killer, right? You don't realize you don't have it. Yeah, you don't realize, you know, like our friendship and the friendship that I've built in the industry, I didn't realize I didn't have that I didn't realize that that was something that was missing from my life.
Shasta Nelson 20:35
We just think I know people are around people all day, or I'm actually tired of being around people. And we then make the wrong assumption that I actually pulled out. So therefore, I can't be lonely. And you can be an owner and be around people all day long, serving, making sure they're taken care of and come home still very lonely. And nobody knows you.
Lucas Underwood 20:51
Absolutely. you've poured your cup out, but you never refill your cup. So how to how do we go about that then? Right? If we don't know how friendship works, like what I mean, how do we begin to understand and and realize when we're forming friendships? Because I mean, I think if it's just like, you know, we talked about my anxiety took recognition of it, yes. First to be able to understand and do something about it.
Shasta Nelson 21:14
And that's why I'm so glad you're talking about this. Am I your first friendship person on your podcast, that you're doing this, because it's so prevalent right now. And so when we talk, everything we talk about in friendship is true for our teams. It's true for our technicians, it's true for the people who are coming to work for us and with us. We want positive emotions, like at the end of the day, I want to enjoy being at the shop, I want to enjoy, I want to feel good about what I'm doing, I want to feel appreciated, I want to feel like we have a chance to be proud of ourselves and that we feel celebrated and that we have a chance to laugh together. And so I think it's like we want to look and ask ourselves, what are we doing to help bring positive emotions, and I love reverse engineering it I love saying, You know what I feel like the morale is kind of low, or I feel like we need everyone's kind of feels like they need more hope. And so then you can be like, What would leave everyone feeling more hopeful. And you can start thinking of actions and questions and things that you can do to kind of add to that. But just having a good time isn't enough for a meaningful friendship. And so the other two sides of the triangle are consistent time and vulnerability. Consistent time is why we bond with people at work work is the number one place we make friends as adults, it is only because it's cuz we're consistent. It's not because we like these people better than anybody else we've ever met. And if we had a lineup of options, we probably wouldn't pick these people. But we see them regularly. And so therefore that's the only place in our lives, a lot of us are that consistent, it's the closest thing we had to Why friendship felt easier when we were kids, it wasn't that it was easier. It was that we had consistency built in for us. And with any relationship outside of work that we want to build, this becomes the hardest one, we actually have to build consistency, which means seeing them regularly inviting them participating and getting in getting momentum going, which is really the hard thing for a lot of us if we don't prioritize our life around this. And then the third requirement, so men's relationships, we've often taught to be positive and consistent. So go have a good time, see each other at the games, hang out at the bar, go do the sport together, like see each other regularly and enjoy yourself. But for lack of the third requirement, a lot of those relationships don't feel meaningful. And that third requirement is vulnerability. And that's where we have to keep practicing that women too, sometimes women are, and I'm so stereotyping here, I see a lot of women overshare, they just think that if we're just really vulnerable, we can just like build a really meaningful relationship. Sometimes we haven't been as practiced as men in doing that. And so all of us have to learn how to do that incrementally. And so if you just imagine a little triangle, it always has to have the foundation of positive emotions. And then every relationship starts at the bottom of the triangle with a little bit of consistency. We don't know each other that well yet. And our vulnerability should match that we should just have a little bit of vulnerability, just think about it as one step up, I'm just sharing a little bit about who I am. And then as we get to know each other better and spend more time and make more memories and log more hours and build more history. So to set our vulnerability go up. And so some of us need to do a check and be like, do I tend to try to rush that vulnerability too fast? Or some of us are like, do I hold back and stopping the process by not being more vulnerable? And so all of us, like I can go back to the statement at the beginning. I can guarantee that you can bond with anybody. You can find any team, you can build any relationship if you have these three things in place.
Lucas Underwood 24:17
Right. Well, and you know, so I guess my next question is, you know, for instance, with with, I'll use my wife as an example is is that there were times in our relationship that she didn't feel like her needs as far as friendship were met. Yeah. Right. But I felt like I was doing a good job. And then we had the discussion about the love languages, right. Nice. And we've talked about that in the past and it took some time for me to realize I don't naturally gravitate to her lovely Yeah, yeah, I gravitate to my lovely. And so hers are like word of affirmations and and gifting. Yep. Right. And so I don't automatically do Do that. Yeah. So I think like, Hey, I'm doing a good job. Yeah, I'm doing a good job. How do we learn that about other people, though? Yeah. Like, how do you
Shasta Nelson 25:07
all my girlfriends, I know all of theirs, and they know mine. And that's a great question. Be like, you know, we've been friends for a couple of years. And I would just love to know, like, what are the things that I've done that have left you feeling the most supported? You know, like, I want to support you? And like, what are the things and let them list off some of the things like when you did this, when you call me and you start realizing it's just a little phone calls that mean more to this person than the fact that I showed up at their kid's birthday party? Excuse me. So yeah, it's like asking the questions, I think it's awesome to say I just listen to this podcast on the love language. Do you know what yours is? I mean, I think those are great questions. That's, that's, that's an example of increasing vulnerability. So I wouldn't do that. Like when I'm just getting to know somebody. But as we build the friendship, I want to know who my friends are. I want to know how to love them. Well, I want to know how to maybe we need to know. Yeah,
David Roman 25:51
don't creep out people. Here's my love language. What's yours? I mean, just give them crazy. Is
Unknown Speaker 25:56
that what you do?
David Roman 25:58
Is that how you try to do that with my staff. They feel like I need to know your love language here.
Lucas Underwood 26:06
Good. Take the test, go take the test.
Shasta Nelson 26:08
Well, it's a great it's a great team building activity is a great team building personality based or strength based or how we are different is good because we honor each other we've so the definition of a healthy friendship is any relationship where we both feel seen in a safe and satisfying way. We feel seen when we can practice vulnerability, it feels safe when we have consistency, we built history. And we feel satisfied when we end up feeling good for having shared. So what's most important about this triangle is you have to keep doing these three things. None of us want to be vulnerable, and then feel judged. None of us want to be vulnerable, and then feel like it just like next and just go the next person. Like we want to feel vulnerable only if we're going to be accepted and seen. And so that positive emotion has to be the response back, we have to say thank you for sharing that. Like I love knowing that about you. And then we want to keep repeating that process. And like so it's interesting, you were talking about making fun of each other and joking around. I come from a family where our love language has been sarcasm, I married my husband who's that is not his love language, and it hurts him. So I've had to like, learn over the years that like when I'm with my sisters, you know, it's like my husband watching. He's like, You guys are so mean to each other. And I'm like, I guess it is kind of like that. But I think it's important for us to realize that we need to know who we want to love the people around us while we want to take care of our teams, we need to know is the joking around hurting? Or is it helping? You know, and what does that look like? Because it's our responsibility to make sure that we're leaving people feeling good. That's the that is the key thing if people leave feeling our customers this is true for our customers. If they leave feeling seen and liked, they will want to come back the same three things are true for every person who brings their car in I mean, this is the same thing as people gravitate to the places where they felt good and where they felt seen and where they felt notice and the more we can do that, the more they will keep coming back.
Lucas Underwood 27:52
Well and you know, for years I always quoted that Zig Ziglar quote like you'll get to your you'll get your best life by helping enough other people get their best life right? And now I'm kind of starting to wonder like am I imposing what I think my best life is?
Shasta Nelson 28:11
Like first vulnerability ask them what their best life what are your goals with this with his work?
David Roman 28:17
I started this whole podcast asking him about overly sensitive men and it turns out it's just I'm gonna asshole I guess.
Shasta Nelson 28:23
No, no,
Lucas Underwood 28:25
I mean, I think everybody that listens already knew
David Roman 28:28
that I'm just I think I'm surrounding myself with with people that want positive affirmation. Words of affirmation. That's a love language, right? They want words of affirmation. I don't do that.
Shasta Nelson 28:38
But why you could you can you can still be here. It feels meaningless. You can still be you're joking self and be
Lucas Underwood 28:44
Tell her. Tell her the birthday.
David Roman 28:48
Listen, I hate happy birthdays. It was the most meaningless words in the history of it. And not only that, not only I'm going to end up like making everybody feel bad. I go through he says
Lucas Underwood 29:04
that's what makes him happy, right?
David Roman 29:06
No, it doesn't. You did not see this. Look what you just did there. You just call me an asshole. Not trying to be an asshole. I'm just calling it for what it is. I'm just saying it is it is so meaningless. I think to just say happy birthday. What makes it 10 times worse? is doing it on Facebook.
Shasta Nelson 29:25
I agree with you because you do not remember that person's birthday. Make us an asshole. I agree with you. I
David Roman 29:30
think you did not remember that person's birthday. Facebook prompted you because you put in your birthday. You shouldn't do that, by the way. But if you did, Facebook prompted you and said, hey, it's Lucas's birthday today. And so of course they're like, Okay, happy birthday and not not No, no, hold on. Facebook fills that in for you. So what about you, all you have to do is click sent. That's it. That's it. And then And then always everybody always has to make the ability hitori thank you for the first birthday wishes and blah, blah, blah, lists and lists. Nobody remembered your birthday, you are sharing a birthday with about 400 million other people. It's not that special of a day.
Shasta Nelson 30:14
Okay, so on the scale of super meaningful and super meaningful, I'm with you, that's not super meaningful, but it is something. And so at
David Roman 30:22
least that's what we're shooting for. We're shooting something. Most people that like the people who are doing
Shasta Nelson 30:26
that those aren't the people you're shooting for meaningful with necessarily all.
David Roman 30:30
These are people that like, they take the time to, like, have all time okay to type out. I hope you had a great day. Okay, thanks.
Lucas Underwood 30:41
You know, we, we, we, I thought, you know, I know nothing about mental health. Okay. But I thought that some exposure therapy would be good for David. So I went and I don't know, everyone we knew to just go and post on his Facebook profile, how much they appreciated him
Shasta Nelson 30:57
sounds like it went over well, it went like, oh, it was beautiful. It was
David Roman 31:01
it was appalling. And here's the thing, I just, I understand, everything you're saying makes 100% Perfect sense. I just I like what what how did we get to the birthday thing?
Lucas Underwood 31:15
I honestly can't remember, if like
David Roman 31:17
a words of our idea of connection has been dumbed down to now hitting send tweets and
Shasta Nelson 31:26
why I've used social media, I don't want to get off track. But it's like when you hurt somebody or a reply or like and all that kind of stuff. It's like giving eye contact to somebody while you're talking to them. It's like I saw you, I noticed you. It's minimal. It's not like some big meaningful conversation, but it's meaningful, and it's better than nothing. And so I like we can, you know, that's it. I always do that, like a big town square, like we're all in this big crowd together in this huge room, and we're there interacting, and we can have a few meaningful conversations. And with other people, we might just wave across the room. If somebody says if somebody sings happy birthday, we're like, oh, it's your birthday. Happy birthday, David. Like it's a nice gesture at mess. But yeah, for sure we want more meaningful, we're going for more meaningful than that. And here's the here's the thing is that for all of us, our relationships are subjective. So research shows that most of us are happiest with three to five close friends, most of us have zero or one, most of us need a few more close friends like so when we build that triangle. Every relationship starts at the bottom of the triangle. And I talk about all of this in the business of friendship, which is how to make relationships in the workplace. But every relationship starts at the bottom and moves up as we practice these three requirements. And so the two are best asbestos, bestest friends at the top of the triangle, the people who practice the highest level of vulnerability, that have the most history and consistency with most patterns and most memories together. And the most positive emotions, like we can express our love for each other, we can be at each other big events, we can do the big gifts, we can do the big gestures. And most of us don't have people at the top of the triangle, I am doing so much work and touring around the country. And it's really interesting that for most of us, our loneliness is not coming because we don't know enough people, it's because we don't feel known by a few. And so it's not my job to tell you what you need. It's your job to say do I feel as loved and supported and connected as I want to feel on a scale of one to 10 with 10 being the most fulfilled, I feel like I've got the right quality of relationships, the right quantity of relationships, I feel like I've got people who support me and my work people who, you know, do my faith with me people in my neighborhood, whatever that looks like for you, I've got people I can confide in, I have more than one like if something if that person is busy, I've got other people I'm not resentful that they're, you know, tied up this season. And so it's all of our job to look and say, Okay, no, I have hunger for a little bit more and then figure out how to deepen it.
Lucas Underwood 33:34
Well, so you know, and you talk about in the workplace in the business, right? What do you say to the shop owner who says, Hey, I try not to be friends with my staff, I try not to connect with my staff. I have a really hard time not doing right. Like I really care about my staff. They're part of my family. And we have had owners, when we've said that on the podcast, we'll get on and comment in a thread and say, I can't believe you would say that you will destroy your business, that's terrible. You don't want to be friends with them, you're gonna get too connected to them. What I mean,
Shasta Nelson 34:06
what you say to them is not back them up. It does not back them up. Gallup has been doing this research for two decades. The people who have best friends at work are the people who are seven times more engaged in their job, if you care about retention. If you care about engagement, if you care about fewer workplace accidents, if you care about inventory not being stolen, if you care about problem solving, if you care about any of the things that you think are your bottom line, then at the bottom of all of that is relationships, if you care about the mental health of your employees, they need to feel supported and liked. And so we can talk about different levels of friendship and we can talk about you don't have to be the person who's confiding and coming and just sitting there and telling them your whole life at the shop that we absolutely have to walk away from our work every day saying do I feel accepted there? Do I feel liked? Do I enjoy the people I work with? Do I feel safe? Do I feel like I can come admit that I scratch the hood and that I'll be forgiven, and then I'll be that it'll be worked out. Do I feel like I can show up and tell the tell the other tell the team that like, here's our numbers this month like this isn't like we need to know that we have safety and that we have each other's backs. And so we absolutely are doing more damage, pretending we shouldn't be friends, when all the research. And there's so much more piling on lately. All the research says that the better relationships we have with each other, the better our business is going to be without doubt.
David Roman 35:28
So what's causing the loneliness? You're saying it's zero or one what's causing it?
Shasta Nelson 35:32
I? Well, I have so many theories on that. Big One is I don't think we prioritize it. I don't think we plan our lives around it. I think we've set up a culture where work is the be all end all, we spend so many hours at work. And then we've also created a culture that says don't be friends at work, it'd be the same as if we sent our kids to school. And we're like, okay, you're going to go to school today. But remember, you are there to learn, you are there just to learn. So don't talk to people don't get caught up in all that drama. Like it's gonna be ineffective. Like, we don't tell our kids like you're just there to learn. So just ignore everybody else. We know that they're better off, the more connected they are, the more they have friends, we know that they learn better when they feel like they have friends in class. And yet, why do we do that to each other at work? And so we've believed this big crazy lie. And really the better relationships we build, the healthier conversations we can have. So yeah, well, conflict come up. Absolutely. And so we need to be better friends, we need to train how to do relationships better for us to be able to, it'd be like saying, if your pair if you're a married couple that you shouldn't become parents, because the two have like different roles and that you have to wear different hats and like so we shouldn't do that. Because it's harder. Well, of course, it's harder, but you can do it. And they can actually bond you to each other. So yeah, we can be their boss and their friend, we are capable of this. And yeah, well, we have to have hard conversations, absolutely. But the more relationship we have with each other, the stronger and more capable we'll be by just avoiding it or dismissing it or pretending we're not friends really hurts morale. So if we want to, like attract people to your shops and keep them there, we know every single one of us knows, we can have the dream job. And if we come home unhappy or not liked, we will hate being there. And we know the converse is true, we will not want to go work at a different shop across town if we love our team if we love the people we're hanging out with.
Lucas Underwood 37:15
So, you know, this, this, to me resonates with what? You know, Jeff, and Brian, and all of them had been talking about, you know, we had an episode the other night, where were they were talking about this. And they were talking about the fact that they didn't feel like the owner had their best interest in mind. Yeah, right. And so, you know, I look at it, and I see the things that the owner did, and one of these situations and I'm like, Dude, he's he's doing a lot of things for you. He's trying to help you. He's, but they don't talk. And so is that part of this technician shortage? And how do we bring it back from where we are now? Because there's a lot of techs who hate the owners who hate the service advisors, there's a complete divide. Yeah. How do you fix that now that it's set up? Because it's almost like you go and you read in these groups, the techs are like, I hate the owners, owners, or whatever it is. Yeah. And then they're against the service advisors to? How do we fix it? Yeah, what is there a process for fixing it?
Shasta Nelson 38:13
Well, I mean, the short answer is with every relationship in our lives, we can look at that triangle. And I just keep saying that, because it's easier, easier to remember visually, and say which of these three things is lacking the most in this relationship on this team in this shop, and in this marriage, we can do this with anything. So we can score ourselves, I have a team, a team assessment score that I go come in and do with teams and with companies and organizations, where everybody on the team answers 10 questions in each of those three areas, and we get a score, but we might even be able to just kind of guess ourselves or, you know, kind of think through this on our on our team. So positive emotions, we have to have five positive emotions for every negative emotion. So that means the more stress that's going on, the more disappointment, the more we're all covering extra hours, the more we feel like we're failing all this stuff, we have to overcome that with more positive emotion. So our only two tasks there as owners, is to say, How can I decrease the negative emotions and or how can I increase the positive emotions? And so we have to solve that one what most companies this is the bottom one, we're getting consistency, we can always improve that but we're seeing each other and the vulnerability we can you know, that one actually scores the highest on a lot most teams like I went into, I know I went into researching all the companies thinking that the vulnerability because that's the one that everyone's always like, well, we don't want vulnerability in the workplace. But when you actually look at like problem solving, and creative creativity and admitting what I don't know, something like these are appropriate levels of vulnerability that we have. But positive emotion is usually at the crux of most dysfunctional teams and relationships. If we enjoy being together, we will like if we enjoy our time, we will want consistency, and we will feel safer being vulnerable. But if we don't have positive emotions, we're not going to want to do the other two. So I think in a situation like that, the question is, make a list of all the positive emotions you want your people feeling and ask yourself what can I be doing to help do this you can even ask this You can say, Let's go around the circle and you know today and just each share one thing that what is one thing that helps you feel helpful during these discouraging times? What's one thing we could do to have more fun here, you know, you can, you don't have to be the problem solver, you don't have to know you have to show that you care about this and be trying to pull the levers to help them feel liked, accepted, loved, enjoyable, like any pleasant emotion. You want them feeling way more pleasant emotions while they're there.
Lucas Underwood 40:26
You know, that really comes back to something that we always talk about that toxic person in the shop. Yeah, one one toxic person can totally I've been through that recently.
David Roman 40:36
Can you salvage it? If you have somebody?
Shasta Nelson 40:38
Absolutely. You know what one company just hired me last year, they were getting ready. They were such top salesperson. So they've been tolerating this person, because and I'm sure the technician saying like you tolerate them because you need them. And they actually said before we fire this person, we told them, we're gonna fire them, would you work with them? And I said, Absolutely. I have a theory. And this is so far founded pretty true. I haven't done massive research on it most toxic people like with this person, I just ended up asking, I ended up asking her. Do you feel like do you feel liked on your team? Do you feel liked at work? And they were like, No. And I was like, Would you like to? Like if you could choose? Would you prefer to feel good at work and feel like people like you? And she's like, Well, yeah, but you know, in that she has her reasons. And I was like, if you're willing to and if you want to, I will help you. And you know, it comes down to people, all of us have our defense mechanisms. And we all kind of can be snarky and toxic and our behaviors. So I try to say the person isn't toxic. Their behaviors are toxic, and we can change those behaviors if they're willing to. And so if we can just make it a safe place for them to do that. But most people who at most hurt people, people who are hurting people are hurting people. So if we can look at them with a little bit more compassion and be like, what would it look like for them to feel more accepted, more liked? Because otherwise it becomes a really vicious cycle where they were ostracizing them. They feel ostracized, and they have their behaviors, and we remove ourselves. And so we need to do this better. Yeah. But you're right, one person can hurt the whole team.
Lucas Underwood 42:04
Yeah. I mean, we experienced that to the tee. Yeah,
Shasta Nelson 42:07
owners have to take care of that. Because the other employees can't do it. They don't We don't feel empowered by the other people to manage that an owner needs to take responsibility for sitting down with that person and being a naming that and saying, what do we need to do to make this a better environment for you?
David Roman 42:21
What do you tell the shop owner who thinks this is too because you know, that person came in, it's like, Look, I just showed up and I did my job. And I'm expecting them to just show up and do their jobs. Like, we're not here to be friends, I'm paying you to be here every single day, money, show up and just Just do your job. You know,
Shasta Nelson 42:39
what the some of the some big studies as last couple years, one of them came out and it said, like, well, several of them, like money salary was number eight on the list. Like when we when we're applying, we actually think that's like the most, we're always asking about the perks and the pay and time off and all that kind of stuff. When we're in a job, what makes the biggest difference to our job satisfaction is who we work with that continues to score number one, number eight is money. So like, let's just recognize it. Yeah, we want them to feel purposeful, we want them to feel appreciated, but they need to like who they work with. And if they don't, that eats away at them who we work with impacts our future health more than our doctor, like we need to this is they're impacting us for better for worse, there's studies that just came out in the last couple of weeks, I was seeing, like who we who were around, either repairs like or they can see on a cellular level now that we our genes change based upon our relationships, our genes are repairing themselves when we feel safe and supported. When we don't it actually begins to create inflammation in our body. I mean, we are so impacted. So like we can go down the stats road, I mean, 61% of us are lonely at work. So that's a lot of us in different industries have different numbers. But more you can assume that most of the people in your shop are lonely. In a male dominated industry, you can assume that even more, we know that they only have a 70% chance of being that you have 70% of our happiness comes down to our relationships if we if they do not feel loved and supported at home, or at work, their chance of being happy is like almost virtually impossible. That affects their customer service that affects their job that affects their ability to come in and problem solve. They're in like they're in protection mode instead of like, let's make this less problem solving mode. When it comes to health, if we feel disconnected, if somebody on our team feels disconnected, it's more damaging to our health than smoking 15 cigarettes a day, it's twice as harmful as being obese, it's worse than not exercising, it's worse than being a lifelong alcoholic. And so if you care about the physical health of your team, you want them showing up at work. You want them healthy enough to do their job. You need to care about their relationships. And it's not enough to say well let them do it on their own time. When is that when is their own time? They come home and they have a couple of hours to be with spouses and kids and responsibilities and maybe if they want to work out and maybe if they want to read and maybe if they want sleep and have a meal and then they're back to it and they're coming if we come home tired and lonely, the chances are almost impossible for us to make that up. and are off hours, they aren't getting it when we where we spend our time.
Lucas Underwood 45:03
And you know, what I found is, is that because I spend so much time at work, by the time I go home, it's so stressful, right? We're dealing with the stressful stuff, right? Because that's such a small piece of the pie means that the stressful stuff takes more of that time off. Yep. So the ratio is off. Yeah.
Shasta Nelson 45:20
And here's the good thing is that if we are getting our social needs met at work, we also go home with more energy to do it at home. If we come home lonely and discouraged and depressed, we have less energy for our relationships outside of work, too. So the to feed off of each other. So it's not okay to send our employees home, lonely, any more than like kids in school, we're feeding them now. Because we realize you can't learn if you have an empty stomach. That's the same thing at work. Like these are people who have an empty stomach for connection, it is our responsibility, our stewardship of their hours to make sure that we are benefiting them.
Lucas Underwood 45:53
So I guess the next logical question is, is where do we go from here? If somebody's listening to this, and they say, You know what, I resonate with that. And just
David Roman 46:02
explain that to why no triangle going, you got to see which one you're missing.
Lucas Underwood 46:08
Understand. But what's, uh, what's the first step to take? Right? Because I think that I think Brian used
David Roman 46:13
to have a meeting and you draw out the triangle, and you say, it was
Shasta Nelson 46:16
even easier than that, I would say, I mean, you would expect me to say that, I would say by the book, the business of friendship, I walk people through it, I also have a free kit in there. For anyone who buys the book that has some videos that you can show your team, it has an assessment that your team can use, I have a whole bunch of like, sharing questions that you can you can use with your team to help kind of increase the connection and the sharing. So there's a lot of resources in there. And I've written it to the employees. So another great thing to do is buy the book and have a discussion about it, like help teach the people this is the truth is that none of us have ever taken a class on friendship. Very few of us have read a book on friendship. Most of us have never listened to somebody speak on this or talk about this or teach this, it makes it a very fun subject to teach. And the tragedy is that we are talking to a whole bunch of grown adults who are just doing the best they can based off the horrible modeling they've had, and based off of like what they've seen on movies, and maybe just based on their own hurts, and they get their heart broken and feel betrayed. And they put up defense mechanisms. And that's how they're going through life. So just have compassion and realize, most of us don't know what we don't know. And so help teach help be a place that teaches people how to have healthy relationships.
Lucas Underwood 47:23
So us being the big, brash guys that we are,
David Roman 47:27
right, I'm not, I'm super sensitive, what do you talk about? We're gonna have this conversation at the shop,
Shasta Nelson 47:32
I have all kinds of sharing questions for you guys to do with each other to hold hands and everything. I want to do a podcast where I'm interviewing you guys.
Lucas Underwood 47:39
Let's do it. Well, so. So, you know, I'll use I'm gonna use Jeff as an example. Because we're allowed to do that, you know, our friend, Jeff. He's recorded a couple episodes, Jeff, I actually put on his name badge when we go to events, Jeff jadad. Compton, right? Because he's so mad, right? And he's like, I'm not been paid fairly. I'm not been taking care of people don't respect me. And he just like mad about it, you know? How do we what's the first step with somebody like that? Who says, I'm not interested in any of this?
Shasta Nelson 48:11
It's like somebody saying, I don't, I'm not interested in exercising, or I'm not like, it's, it's it. They're scared of it. They're overwhelmed by it. They haven't had a model. They don't know the importance it has in their life. I mean, the first thing is just starting to be open. Do I feel as loved and supported as I want in my life? And if the answer is, I would like a little bit more. Then emotional intelligence says it's one thing to be honest about what we're feeling that's harder than it sounds, because most of us are just in denial mode. Most of us are like, Oh, no, I've got enough friends or and we have all kinds of defense mechanisms. But if we want to feel more connected and safer and closer to people, and I can guarantee like, by definition, I know a lot of us hear that and go, Why don't want to be vulnerable. That's scary. But by definition, if you could be in a relationship with somebody who you could be seen in a safe and satisfying way, do you want more of that? And if the answer is yes, then emotional intelligence says, Okay, let's see that. And now what do we need to do to help make that happen? And do we have to learn new muscles and build up muscles and do new things? It's like going to a gym. It's like physical health, like you have to say, I want to be healthier, and what can I do to do that?
Lucas Underwood 49:15
Well, and you know, I'm listening to you talk about this. And I think, what about these technicians who say, Well, how would I start that right out normally in the shop, and there's a lot of technicians who listen and you know, I think, from my perspective, what I would say, and you know, we've talked about our friend Brian on here a couple times, and the thing is, is what I would say is what I said to Brian, like, dig in and understand what the boss thinks. You've assumed what he thinks you've assumed what she thinks you've assumed what the owner thinks the goal here is, but if you don't talk to them, you don't understand you don't know. And so I think if a technician is listening, the first step is to talk about it. Hey, man, the culture seems like it's in the dumps lately. Like where All down and out. We're frustrated whatever's going on, right? I think you got to talk about it. Because there's been times in my shop where my guys have come to me and said, Hey, we're worried about this. I didn't have a clue. Yeah, I didn't even notice it was going on.
David Roman 50:14
I've got to talk to people. I don't know what to tell you.
Lucas Underwood 50:17
I talk to my people. Yeah, I don't do these. I don't do these woowoo interviews where
David Roman 50:22
we're just we're sitting here talking, we got to do the woowoo.
Lucas Underwood 50:25
I understand. We got to do the woowoo. But listen, my people, my people, they don't want to talk to me for 45 minutes, right? I'm pretty sure yours don't either. But
David Roman 50:35
we're gonna have a breakthrough today.
Shasta Nelson 50:38
And I would say if you're the technician that's in that place. Yes. If you feel like you can go and talk to the owner in a safe way. But most of us are not going to do that if we haven't been set as an owner being open to that, right. So none of us want to be vulnerable, if it's going to cost us, that's where this triangle becomes so important. But what we can do is we are responsible. And that's why when I was first writing the book, I was writing it to all the managers like how to create this. And then I was just like, that puts it all in their hands. And I ended up changing the book to that, like, how can you feel more supported in your job? And it starts with you just being like, who are a few people that I can encourage more? Who can I support? Who can I go up and say, Is there anything I can do to help you do good work, good job, I would have never solved it that way. Oh, that looks great. We're able to affirm to like people will want to be around us if we're if we're a positive presence in the shop. And so the first step is to say I am not a victim here, I can control connection, I may not be able to change my owner, I may not be able to change that toxic person right now, I may not be able to be in charge. But I can make sure that I buffer myself from the stress. And here's one of the really interesting studies. And I don't know how much time we have left. But I'll just say this really quick. One of the most powerful studies is they put people into MRI machines, and which sucks enough and then Bing, I always want to say electrocuted, but it was electrically shocked when intermittently mildly while you're in this MRI machine. And they're taking pictures of your brain the whole time so that you can see the neuroscientists can see what's happening in the brain when you feel under mild stress, when you don't quite know when the next shock is going to come. And it's no surprise to any of us that three big red splotches light up in the brain, we're under stress and cortisol is going to our brain are activating or it's like, Ah, I'm being electrocuted in an MRI machine, right? They do the exact same study, except this time you get to hold the hand, we will with somebody outside of the MRI machine, you now feel supported, you don't feel alone, now they're not in there with you. And you're still being shocked. And you're still in a sucky MRI machine. This time, only about a third of the red lights up in the brain. We like when we feel supported, we protect ourselves from the impact of stress. And so the more dysfunctional and the more stressful Your shop is, the more you need to take care of yourself and say I need to build some relationships up that help me feel more supported. I want to protect my body, I want to buffer myself from feeling the impact of that stress. If you knew that there was a way to take down two thirds of the stress in your life, would you not want to do that?
Lucas Underwood 52:58
Well, and you know, that's my next message to the technicians then, right? Because they're always talking about like, hey, it's so hard on our bodies, we're worn out, we're tired, when we get home, we hurt we don't feel good. This seems like a step that you could take to make a change. And
David Roman 53:15
she said, Are you not listening to her? She said, this is on the owners to do this.
Lucas Underwood 53:19
I agree. But I'm just don't feel empowered. My. My point though, is that when it comes to the technicians saying that, maybe this is part of the solution, Hey,
David Roman 53:32
boss, I need to be you need to be more woowoo? No, I'm
Lucas Underwood 53:35
saying that
Shasta Nelson 53:36
the technicians have a responsibility to build their relationships up and they can reach out and they can be kind and they can contribute to the culture at a place. Absolutely. So they're not victim to it. But yeah, they can't go change. We can't go change our owner or the toxic people. But we can create relationships with a couple of people and we can contribute to that positive emotion we have more we have sometimes have more power than the owner does. We sometimes if the owner comes in and says oh, good work, we kind of dismissed it kind of like a parent praising us. We can do that for each other we can say we can affirm each other, we can be known as the person who's helping bring
Lucas Underwood 54:07
the same way a cancerous employee can drag the shop down or positive and bring the shopper Absolutely.
David Roman 54:14
You're putting a lot on on a single employee that is not the leader in the shop or shouldn't be the leader in the shop now all of a sudden, but out
Shasta Nelson 54:21
of their self interest, they will want to do this, they need to leave. And that raises a great point. And that comes back to the person you were saying what about the shop owner who thinks we don't need to be making friends at work that goes back to that point. This nobody will want to leave a shop if they feel appreciated and liked and taken care of. So if you care about retention, this is the issue to be paying attention to and for attracting people to be able to say hey, this is the kind of culture we have. We want you to be liked. We have a good time here. We take care of each other. We've got each other's backs, like that's appealing to me. I would want to come into a shop if I were being told about those healthy relationships.
Lucas Underwood 54:56
That's very true. What's the name of your book again?
Shasta Nelson 54:59
The business Friendship making the most of the relationships where we spend most of our time. And where can we find it? Amazon and any bookstore will order it for you.
David Roman 55:07
That's Borg. What do you think that one didn't know? She
Lucas Underwood 55:10
had a website to their website.
Shasta Nelson 55:12
And my website is Shasta nelson.com.
Lucas Underwood 55:14
Shasta nelson.com.
David Roman 55:16
This though is but the link doesn't just ticking the Amazon.
Shasta Nelson 55:20
Yes, you can go you can go straight to you can go straight to any bookstore. And you say
David Roman 55:26
we're looking into that? Well, it's a racket Amazon.
Shasta Nelson 55:29
There's also an independent bookstore website that you can go to to support the in
David Roman 55:34
there, like the 1000 pound gorilla in the industry, like you cannot, especially you were talking about self publishing
Shasta Nelson 55:39
on my cheap, cheaper and they sell with all of our books cheaper than you can get them anywhere else is the unfortunate thing.
David Roman 55:44
Well, yeah, I was watching the whole thing. And the guy, the guy was a self published author, and he was talking about how there is, if you try to put your book on Audible, it's like 70% of the money they take, right? Every time every time you sell a book on Audible. Is that what you're finding?
Shasta Nelson 55:59
I don't I'm not a self published. So I'm through a publisher, but an author makes about $1 per book. So yeah, it's, there's a lot of other people in there.
David Roman 56:06
70% they're taking on Audible. If you're, if you're self published,
Lucas Underwood 56:11
this is going to upset you when I say it, but it reminds me of Andy Andrews, you know, he's talking about the book he wrote, and he said, you know, like, everybody kept turning it down. And he said, by the time I made it to 500,000 copies sold, I kind of said, well, you know, I guess we just won't worry about it. Now. Obviously,
Shasta Nelson 56:27
that's, that's an author's dream. Yeah, I need make way more percentage of that. Well, well done on that bad.
Lucas Underwood 56:34
And so you've mentioned coaching, yeah. If, if an organization a shop wanted to hire you to come in and do some coaching,
Shasta Nelson 56:41
I would love it. Yeah, I mean, it's a good way to do I mean, it's a good focus for an off site for team building activities to like say, let's, let's teach on healthy relationships. Let's let's as an owner name, that we value this and we care about it, we might not do it perfectly, we might not it might have to look different, but let's say let's go on record saying that we care about your personal health, your mental health, your physical health, like and the health of our culture. So absolutely, I do offsites or come in, and I'd be willing to even work with your toxic employee. But yeah, it's like it's important to pay attention to this. Well, thank
Lucas Underwood 57:11
you so much for being here. I've learned a ton. Well,
Shasta Nelson 57:14
thank you for having me. I don't think it's every industry like it's hard for sometimes to make the connection. Like why are we bringing on this friendship person, but to you guys,
Lucas Underwood 57:22
I mean, what we realize that our industry is broken. And that's why the podcast is called Changing the industry podcast, right? We recognize Something's gotta give.
Shasta Nelson 57:30
Yeah. And what you guys have going on your favorite as shop owners is, you still have people coming in and being in person and connecting. I mean, that's even more important because we've got a lot of people who you can't do your job remote. And so we've got like, there's a lot of other problems and other industries. And one of the things you guys have going in your favor is the consistency the interaction. So now let's make sure that interaction is safe and vulnerable and meaningful and satisfying. And you guys, you guys have so much potential.
Lucas Underwood 57:56
Well, thank you so much for being here. Yeah,
David Roman 57:58
we can do the shop remote. We need a figure. That would
Shasta Nelson 58:01
be a good winner then phoned it in. That's it. Thank you for having me. Yes, ma'am.
Lucas Underwood 58:07
Thank you.