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Beyond The Message is a weekly podcast that dives deeper into the weekend’s teaching. Released after each Sunday service, it offers thoughtful conversation, added insight, and practical reflection to help our community process and apply what they heard. Whether you're revisiting the message or catching up, this podcast is designed to help you go deeper throughout the week.
Foreign. Welcome, um, to beyond the Message, the podcast where we take the weekly teaching at Christ Community Chapel and we bring it into your week. Each week, we get to sit down together as friends, and we laugh a little bit, we reflect, and we figure out how to live out what it is that we are learning from the teaching. If you didn't hear the teaching yet, that's okay. Drop down to the description, find a link to it there, watch it, and then come back over here and join us in this conversation. My name is Stacy DiNardo, and I'm joined today by Sarah Coons, Jimmy Coy, and Brett Blake. What's up? Welcome, guys. We're matching today. I just want to point that out. Big Sunday with some baptisms going on. So we're all. Yeah. Outfitted in that way. Uh, Pastor Joe spoke this week about sheep. John 10, 10, 15. We jump into that. But I thought to start things off, if you could be any animal, um, what animal would you be? Are we. Are we supposed to say sheep? Because that's what Pastor James said. Don't say sheep. I know, right? I feel like you can't say lion either, because it's like. Are you trying to replace, like, biblical, like, you know, as lion, I think. Yep. I thought this question through a little bit. Um, I didn't tell you it was. Well, I think about stuff like this all the time. So. Mr. Tumnus. Is that who you mean? No, no. He's frightening that guy. I got a lot of thoughts on Mr. M. Tumnus. They don't ask for this podcast. Uh, first of all, you have to choose an apex predator, I feel, because otherwise you're getting. Otherwise you're getting eaten. You have to choose. Well, yeah, that's fine, as long as you're lay with down the rip in pieces and. Okay. Okay. I would choose an orca. A killer whale. A killer whale. So it has nothing to do with, like, you like the water? I mean, I think orcas are awesome. Like, they are very cool. They're smarter than dolphins. They're the. They are the best. You're a big Free Willy fan. Well, once he was free. I was. When they had him in captivity. No, not. So that was about to turn into that other documentary, Jimmy's in orca. See, I feel like he just knocked my animal choice, which would be a dolphin. Okay. And why do you have any? I just think dolphins are, like, they. I mean, they seem happy all the time. Yeah. And whenever you go to the beach, you're like, dolphins, you know, they're really Cool. I mean, they could do. You're saying you're super smart? Yes. I think that is highly intelligent. Yes. Yes, they are. I wonder if they're smarter than. They're not killer. Well, no, he's just said it. How do you know? I watch a lot of animals. I know. That's what I like to say. Animals. The same way you measure IQs of humans, you test them. Okay. Okay. Brent, what do you. What do you think? New band. I'm happy to go. Animal IQ test. So I'd go between two. Okay. And I'm not sure which one. I don't know, because they're both very different. But to Jimmy's point. Okay. You don't want to get eaten. Just what would either pick a gorilla. Silverback gorilla. Oh, that's his. Intense. Or a great white shark. Wow. That's very disparate answers. Yeah, I'm not sure. I don't. I don't. I'd like to pick something, like, creative. Like, I watched this clip of this beetle that a frog ate, and it shoots out hot steam. That would be a beetle. Yeah, but it, like, shoots out hot steam. And the frog, like, gorilla. Spit it out. Gorilla. Great white. You have to pick one right now. Ready, set, go. One, two, three. I pick a great white off the top of my head. Wow. We're on the water from the. I'm gonna. I'm gonna change that one. I'm going flying high, guys. I'm a bald eagle coming in. That's a good one. That's a good one. It's very patriotic. Very patriotic. Oh, that's good. Or what's. Isn't there, like, a. Is a falcon? What is a. A, uh, condor. Condor. A raptor. No, I don't know. I'm gonna stick with the bald eagle. Okay, let's p. Dinosaurs to talking about the teaching. I think part of why I thought I'd ask this question is one of the main points of this teaching was the reality that Jesus uses sheep and relating them to who we are for a reason. Sheep are not smart creatures. They get lost. They are. They. Yeah. They can't find their own food. I think he used an example of, like, they drowned if they put their face in the wool of another sheep, because. Yeah. So all that to say we are like sheep. On, uh, notice, our default would not be to choose a very sheep like, animal that we'd want to be. Um, but let me jump into a couple other things. So, Pastor, um, Joe, in the teaching, the first point was I am a sheep, and I do want to remember because we might talk about a little bit the context of. As he was telling this, um, to the audience that he had, they would have m immediately reflected on Psalm 23, which, um, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. So just a good reflection there, um, Pastor Joe challenged us to wake up that next day, say, lord, I am a sheep. Acknowledging that, really grasping what that means. So I want to talk about that some. But secondly, he talked about that Jesus is the good shepherd. And even the difference between a hired hand, um, and truly a good shepherd, and the influences that we have out there that try to shepherd us, that do shepherd us, I would say. And then last, um, the acknowledgment that I am Jesus sheep. So we're going to talk through a good bit of that today. Why don't we start with that I am a sheep concept? Like, what does it feel like to you to think about acknowledging that lowly of a creature and who we are in relation to who Jesus is and just who we are, period? Yeah, I think it, I mean, it shows that you asked the question at the beginning of what animal we would choose, and nobody here was like, oh, I want to be a sheep. Everybody's something that's like, fast or strong or smart or dangerous. And I think, um, the idea that we are not self sufficient is, I think, something that we all. I know I can. Speaking for myself, for sure, I tend to think of myself as, I'm not like a sheep. I'm not, you know, bumbling about in the wilderness. You know, I know where to go, I know what to do. I generally can take care of myself. I can handle this on my own. I can do it myself. Yeah, I think, I think your point of the independence piece, uh, is really poignant for me because I think it's not even acknowledging that I'm a sheep. It's saying, like, I want to be a sheep because I want to follow the shepherd. And that's even taking that a step beyond just acknowledging the fact that you're a sheep. And that's something I kept saying, like, do I want to be a sheep? No. But that's because I want to be a dolphin. Right. But I want to be in charge and I want to kind of have control and I don't. And then that doesn't allow me to actually follow Jesus as a good shepherd. So. Yeah, yeah, I think I. You guys are very holy in your answers. And I'm probably on the other side of like, the ignorance of a sheep. Yeah. So I heard a pastor preach on Psalm 23 once and talk about. And I grew up on kind of a farm a little bit and sheep are really dumb. Yeah. As you, as you said. And uh, like the rod and the staff, like a shepherd would carry a staff to defend the sheep, but he would also crack the sheep in the head when it wouldn't listen. And I find myself a lot of times, like when I think about this idea of being a sheep, it's more of a self awareness of I tend to be stubborn or non, uh, compliant. So God a lot of times has to crack me in the head to get me because whatever he wants me to do, I will tend to say like, no, kind of like what Jimmy was saying. Like I can do it out of my own will. I can, I can go for it. And God most of the time has to crack me in the head to get me to move where I want. And uh, that's painful. But when you understand that, you know he's doing something. So. Yeah, I think I. You guys have said it all. I think for me I just go like the idea of me being okay with failing or not being self sufficient, not knowing the answer, not knowing an answer, not being able to do it on my own. Like I. So as much as even I can say the words I am a sheep. But that's where I resonate with what you said, Sarah, saying I want to be a sheep. No, really, what does that mean for me is that dependence and telling the Lord like, no, I can't do this. I can't do this on my own. I need you. And even with other people, if I really am a sheep, I'm not going to just look to. I'm going to be reliant on the Lord first and foremost, but just also humble with other people in a way that I think we need to be teachable in. There's a guy girl divide. We don't want to be sheep, they want to be sheep. Yeah, not interested in sheep. We want to be sharks and whales. So eagles and dolphins. Yeah, we all like. I think Pastor Joe made a great point talking about obviously Jesus as the good shepherd, but the reality that we are shepherded by all sorts of things in our lives, all sorts of influences in our lives. Uh, what do some of those influences look like for you? Um, as we think about people even listening right now, what are things we can be on the lookout for or be aware of that we can succumb to or just be looking to instead of Jesus? Uh, I think I Was thinking about this question a little bit this morning. Like, uh, sometimes I'm shepherded by a self concept of who I think I should be. And it's like, I want to be here in my career. I want to be here as a, you know, with my money. I want to be here in all these different ways. And I think, uh, what can subtly happen is that, um, my day to day, the way I live my life is actually subjugated to those goals rather than to seeing, okay, what does that Jesus want from me today? Even if it means that what Jesus might want from me may come at the expense of one of those other things. So I think, uh, in that way I would say I'm most, I'm most likely to try to be my own shepherd as opposed to, uh, you know, I'm not really on social media, so like, or some of those other places you might find quote unquote, shepherds. But I think for me the most dangerous one is, uh, I'm just gonna go figure out and be my own shepherd. Yeah. I wrote down status climbing, like as being a shepherd to similar thinking. I mean, you explained, explained it well, it's just going. Thinking about where I should be in things or in relation to other people, in relation to what I want to be or my own goals. And that being something that is. Well. And I think shepherds in our life change based on, um, where you are in life. So like yesterday I was with a bunch of high school girls and we were talking about like, where do you find your identity? And there's so much comparison that happens in high school. Oh yeah. And middle school with like, whether that's how I look or who I'm. If I'm dating someone or friendships or whatever that is. I feel as I get older that might not be the thing. Right. That's shepherding me or guiding me. But it is something like you said, the idea of like, am I successful in what I'm doing? And I think that can be in anything. That can be in parenting, that can be in my marriage. And so sometimes we look to other people in order to like, let's say our marriage is not in a good place, so we're gonna read all these books and do all these things and they could even be like, by good people. But in the end, if we're not looking to Jesus to be our good shepherd and what he says in his word, like, it's just never going to work out. Well, yeah. And so I think it's like, you gotta identify what those things Are because they change. Like, you could be like, I got the M. I'm good. And then it's like, I don't know, something else is gonna influence you. And. Yeah, Yeah. I think it's interesting, Brent, you were talking about, uh, the concept of, like, the rod and the staff and how, ah, a shepherd would use the rod and in the. In Psalm 23, it says, his rod and his staff comfort me. And I think it doesn't sound like a very comfortable instrument. That's maybe a conversation for another. But I think, uh. I don't know if this thought will make sense, but I think whenever we experience, like, a negative emotion or a negative experience in some way, we are getting hit by the rod of some shepherd. You know, like, if I look at my bank account and it's not where I want it to be, I'm getting whapped on the head by a shepherd. The question is, which shepherd, right. Am I going to. Gonna heed to and respond to? And which shepherd do I have to be like, wait a minute, this is not. And don't you think we do get. Like, we aren't even aware? I think a lot of times the shepherd, like, who is shepherding just in this day and age of, like, social media and the influencers that Pastor Joe referenced, Like, I don't think we even realize, like, when he talked about wearing a silk shirt with clocks on it in the 70s, like, I don't. I don't know why I was doing that. Right. One of those. I know, right. And so I do think there is. I don't know if it's a practice or a discipline that you have to be looking and saying, okay, what is like, influencing motorship? Because I just think it happens so subtly and we don't even recognize it. So, um, And I think that's dangerous because you could get pretty far down the road without realizing it. Yeah. And we do. We take in most people, Jimmy, maybe not you, but most people on, um, from social media take in so much content. So I just think even from news sources and politics and I mean, true. I know I'm influenced about what I wear based on things that I see and things that. And again, not 100% of that is bad. But in laying that down and realizing, yeah, where am I? I liked what you said as far as that rod and, like, being correct and going, wait, is this voice the voice I should be listening to? Is this voice taking me further from my shepherd or closer to. And. And that's something Jesus says, actually his sheep know his voice and they follow him and I think. Mhm, yeah, that, yeah, we need to do that. So that's really good. Yeah, there's a lot out there for sure. Well, um, there was something Pastor Joe said I want us to listen to. He was talking just to set it up a little bit. He was talking about how there's a lot of words that describe Jesus in the Bible, but shepherd being one that is kind of the most comprehensive and complete. Um, and then spoke to just kind of slivers of our life and just being given um, over to and the shepherd. So let's go ahead and watch that real quick cuz he's going to say it much better than I do and then we'll talk about it a little bit. You know, there's a lot of images that the Bible uses to describe Jesus. He's a savior, he's the redeemer, he's a king, even a friend. But there's no image that's more comprehensive than a shepherd with sheep. Because a shepherd would never leave the sheep. There was no aspect of a sheep's life that a shepherd was not uh, involved in. And this is, this is my point. This is what can be life changing for you starting tonight, uh, and tomorrow. Listen, in every area of your life, if Jesus is not uh, the shepherd, then you are not having the life that you long for. And in every area of your life, whatever area of your life there is where you know Jesus wants you to do something, is saying, come follow me in this way. And you're saying, I don't want to follow you. You need to know any area of your life where you're not following Jesus, you're following another shepherd, you just don't know it. So in, in thinking about that further, I guess I'd first ask the question, how did that hit you? And any areas of your life that it's like, oh man, that brought this to mind. Or that brought this to mind for me. Yeah, I think uh, I think his line at the end, like the subtleness. Yeah, because I think I was thinking even as we were talking about the last question and like Jimmy to his willpower, doesn't have social media but you're still influenced by things. Like I think social media in our day and age seems to be the low hanging fruit. Like, oh, we're influenced but like you're influenced by your co workers, you're influenced by the person that you wish you had. You know, we all covet things and wish we had things or wish we had status or to be liked, whatever. And I think the subtleness of distraction is like the greatest weapon of the enemy. I think the stuff that you see coming, uh, we tend to focus on, but it's like the subtle distraction. And then I think in my life, it's the stuff that creeps in. Not always like, oh, I wish I had this car, or, I wish my life looked, like, blank. It's the, like, ego that creeps in, or the, um, the pride and, like, anger. Those subtle things are the things that kind of direct me and guide me in my life. And, uh, I think that's been really helpful to realize. Okay. It's not necessarily these big things like my house or my kids or my bank account. It's when the, like, little stuff. Did you say something before or while we've been filming about just negative emotion. Like, when we feel that negative emotion that it's going like, okay, wait, where's that? I'm being shepherded right now. I'm being shepherded by. Right, yeah. Which that is. Yeah. Yeah. I think we just think it's a person a lot of times, but sometimes it can be a thing. You know, for me, a lot of times it's like, uh, giving into those things or letting them, like you were saying, take control of me. So. Well, I think. I think we have to believe that God's best for us is how we are going to flourish and that these things that we think are going to bring us contentment or some, like, achievement, happiness isn't actually going to be the thing. And I think what that realistically looks like often in our life is we don't accomplish the thing, we don't get the thing. And it's actually believing, oh, this is. That's actually better. That's actually better. And I don't believe that very often. I think that's been. I don't. The thing in this series that has. That the Lord has most impacted me with is, you know, I tend to look at things like this from a, uh. Like a good and bad punishment moral framework where it's like, you need to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. And sometimes there's like a martyr complex with that where it's like, you're gonna suffer, but at least you're suffering, you know, the right thing. And by the way, even when saying that, it's like, oh, look how holy you are. You're so good. I think. But there's something Joe said in that clip we just watched where it's like, actually, what you just said, Sarah, that there is more flourishing on the other side of choosing to follow the Good Shepherd. That it's not just about doing the right thing and not doing the wrong thing, but actually living life as it was meant to be lived. Because Jesus created life. So he knows best what it looks like to, uh. Right. And there will be entrusting and knowing that there will be so much flourishing on the other side. I liked the exercise that he talked about as far as, like, kind of going through. Yeah. You know, uh, different. I started writing down, like, my work, my finances, which has been an area that, like, the Lord has recently convicted me in and shown me things about myself that I didn't realize, or maybe I was just trying to shove down and pretend weren't there. But even, like, he went into things like, politically, like, how are you being shepherded Politically, how are you being shepherded in, you know, what you consume all sorts of things. And I think that could be a really good exercise. I know, for me to do. And maybe for a lot of people that are listening to do, it's like, let's actually, like, go through that and walk through that and each day pick something and say, okay, Lord, what does it look like for you to be the shepherd of this in my life? But, yeah, I don't know anything else to add on that one? Well, the last. I was. One of the things I would say that really impacted me was that when he talked about. He was basically saying, like, if you're sitting at the foot of the cross, right. And Jesus is up there, and he's kind of saying, hey, like, why would you do this? And in the end, the answer is, because you're enough. Like, you're my treasure. Right? Yeah. And I just think about that story in Matthew, you know, where, like, the shepherd will leave the 99 to find the 1. And the fact is, if you don't believe that, then this part is really hard. It is really hard to say, I'm going to follow the Good Shepherd. But, man, if you really believe that and go, I'm enough, like, God loves me and he would do this for me. So I have to believe that he is going to lead me to a life full more and flourishing. And just why do I even try to fill it with all these, like, you know, temporal things that won't satisfy? So I just. I think that is a daily practice for me. Uh, I'm glad you said that. Cause I wanted to kind of wrap up even thinking about that. And just. I was so struck by He Talked about the shepherd. Like, the sheep are the glory and treasure of the shepherd. I'm like, how is that very vast inverted? How is that possible? But if that. You know the reality and the truth of that. Yeah, it's not. Not an orca, but the truth of that is staggering. I mean, and is amazing. And if maybe a starting point is just to sit in that and. And just soak that in and to go like, okay, wow, that is true to what you just said, sir. Like, you are enough. He is enough. And the other things that we let influence our lives and take over and shepherd us in these ways can go maybe not easily, but by the wayside. Yeah, there's a lot of hope in that, too. Like the. Like the gospel. Like the fact that God would say, an ignorant, dumb sheep. That's right. Like, even in our mistakes or our ignorance or how stupid we are, we make the same mistakes over and over again. God still treasures us. There's a lot, I think, for. At least for me, like, I'm like, okay, as much as I mess up, like, not that we abuse it, but in our ignorance, we abuse it. I think. Yeah. That God still treasures us. I think it's like, there's a lot of hope in that. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Okay. Well, thanks so much for joining me and great to be together and we'll see you next time. Awesome. Thanks so much for tuning in to beyond the Message. Before you head out, make sure to subscribe so that you don't miss next week's content. And all week long, we want to provide you opportunities to grow right where you are. So check out our YouTube channel, our app, for more opportunities to catch content from Christmas Community Chapel. Thanks so much for tuning in, and we'll see you next time.