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A Marvel Rivals Podcast hosted by Coach Mills and CaptainCoach, two creator and educators for Marvel Rivals. We discuss all things Rivals including META, balance and the future of development. We will often debate controversial topics that surround the game and plan to bring on many exciting guests from pros to devs!!!
Coach Mills (00:00.834)
What's up guys and welcome to a brand new clear comps podcast today. We're joined by special guest Greg Albert the best Hulk player we have ever had on the pod And today we're gonna talk about Season 8 baby. We got a new hero who's a fucking dinosaur and we got a lot of buffs and nerfs so Captain coach where you want to start you want to talk a little bit about the tank the new tank that got revealed
Captain Coach (00:11.951)
Facts.
Captain Coach (00:30.371)
Bro, me and Greg just got out a couple hours of games. Holy shit, am I wired right now? We were fired up straight.
Coach Mills (00:36.621)
yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw y'all pumped. Y'all going, the fucking bra bros or whatever. The pain bros. Yeah.
GragAlbert (00:43.612)
Pain Bros was lethal. Every time, it doesn't matter who runs what, we just, we just punch him. We just, we just punch him.
Coach Mills (00:47.63)
Y'all just sub out, sub in and out.
Captain Coach (00:49.403)
Straight cortisol maxing through all those barely to get scratching a 50 % win rate at the end of the season. Crazy.
Coach Mills (00:54.714)
Let's go. I was hearing what you were saying about Brawl being really strong and ranked. It does feel like that, especially, like you said, not in the highest of ranks. Like Brawl just feels like you just get to enforce your will on the opponents. You know, just get to mush them.
Captain Coach (01:10.18)
Yeah, yep.
GragAlbert (01:10.386)
Yeah, I love brawl I think another reason why it's really good even at higher ranks it can be good is because it's like guaranteed or I guess more reliable ult charge generation than like hitting a long-range shot like a lot of times if people are looking to build their ult like for example compare playing Hulk and like Waiting for your perfect moment to go in when their cooldowns are down versus the Hulk that's just sitting front line spamming bubbles and punching He's gonna get his ult so much faster, and it's just like more reliable to and safer, too
Coach Mills (01:32.652)
Right, I see what you're Yeah, yeah, fuck this cool down tracking, cycling, just be in there, baby. Just get in there, get the fucking, no, I'm not gonna lie, like, I feel like that's, some of the games that I run down on Thor, it's like that, where it's just like, you're just pressing fucking W key, and like, you're just killing them. Like, that's all you're doing. You're not trying to outplay anybody or anything like that. You're just trying to run them down, that's it.
GragAlbert (01:40.486)
This is just punch them and then you get your own in the second then you just
Captain Coach (01:42.01)
Nah.
Captain Coach (01:58.049)
secret reason. first of all, just want to address we were supposed to have a support main on the pod this week, but they like, I, everybody in the comments, I'm sorry, but we got Greg Albert who's.
Coach Mills (02:03.874)
yeah, we were, yeah we were.
Coach Mills (02:10.03)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we all met together and we said they had some positive opinions on Invis, so we decided not to bring them on, you know? No, I'm just I'm just kidding, I'm kidding. They couldn't make it. I actually reached out to two other support mains. Y'all just don't wanna come on the pod. Yeah, don't be shy. If you have a support main, any support main, any support main, you want them on a pod, let us know down below. Hit up their streams, spam them, be like, come on the pod.
GragAlbert (02:12.86)
I'm a Rocketmane. I'm a Rocketmane.
Captain Coach (02:14.179)
Yeah, rock it.
Captain Coach (02:19.963)
But yeah, so.
GragAlbert (02:20.498)
Hahaha!
Captain Coach (02:26.629)
They're so shy, man. They don't comment game. They don't comment on podcasts.
Coach Mills (02:38.988)
Well, we'll bring them on. talk with them.
Captain Coach (02:39.963)
Yeah, but the reason I brought that up was because, you know, we were talking about Brawl. I wanted to bring up the obligatory shit on support players. Brawl is like easier to heal. Brawl.
Coach Mills (02:46.542)
We're full for two minutes and 50 seconds in Not know I literally got a comment the other day that was like I love you Mills I love the pod but y'all only shit on supports. I can't watch anymore. I'm like, I'm sorry, bro We just it goes there
GragAlbert (02:50.844)
Hahaha!
Captain Coach (02:56.909)
I'm sorry Yo Yo, our supports have been good today, Greg. They have been good today. We've had some solid supports when we get them. Yeah, but
GragAlbert (03:08.41)
We get them when we get them. I Literally, we lost six games in a row where every single every single game Dude every single game and all six of those losses coach and either coach or myself or both of us were playing support We just said it was like there was not a single strategist on the entire server And then finally we just started getting to to to every game and winning and there was wow. Okay, that's
Coach Mills (03:10.542)
Yeah, you scared them all away Captain K. They're gone. They're gone.
Captain Coach (03:25.252)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:30.892)
Let's go, actual team comps, let's go, we win games.
Captain Coach (03:31.545)
Yeah, yeah, just, but yeah, just, mean, I know we've already glazed him up, but just for anyone who doesn't know, Greg Albert, longtime friend of mine, I knew him in League of Legends. Turns out we both started playing Marvel rivals unbeknownst to each other. Both ended up being Hulk mains. Both ended up climbing the ranks, man, and becoming content on different platforms. So this guy is like, it's like I'm looking in the mirror,
Coach Mills (03:56.138)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (03:56.422)
Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, I always always tell chat about that story too Just cuz you know the fact that we knew each other and it didn't talk for a long time and just happened to both Literally be the same person just parallel Yeah
Captain Coach (04:05.136)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (04:08.494)
That's actually sick. That's actually sick. It's also sick that, Greg, you're primarily like, you're on short form, like mostly short form, and you're doing extremely well on short form. And then Captain Coach is like the opposite. It seems like y'all are like on different platforms, you know?
Captain Coach (04:10.191)
Yeah, crazy man.
GragAlbert (04:20.24)
Yeah, would say, I mean, honestly lately the, yeah, true, true. Yeah, I just like the TikTok Live really went crazy for me. That's what it was. TikTok Live just went absolutely nuclear. Cause at the time of Rivals coming out, I feel like if you were on any, if you were streaming live on an algorithmic platform, it was insane. Whether it was like the vertical shorts format or TikTok or whatever it is, because...
Coach Mills (04:44.664)
Cause it's interesting, I don't captain cause you've never streamed like short form at all, right? Like period. You just only ever done long form. It's cool how y'all both found success, but y'all have y'all do the same thing, but y'all don't have, yeah. Y'all don't have the exact same artists cause you have, you're like dominating different platforms. Hard Carry, let's go. We're getting raids mid pod. Let's fucking go. I was,
Captain Coach (04:49.945)
No.
GragAlbert (04:54.918)
We don't intersect that much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Captain Coach (05:03.641)
That was actually a sub. No, mean Rivals is a great game, man. It's super fun. Well, it was. We gotta go over the patch notes now.
Coach Mills (05:13.614)
Oh, oh, it's over. it? Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. Before we talk about the patches, I want to talk about the dinosaur because we got we we have a playable dinosaur now in season eight, which is just like insane. I mean, that's like a that's a fantasy of everybody to just be a fucking dinosaur. I mean, I've had that fantasy since I was five years old to be a fucking dinosaur. And yeah.
Captain Coach (05:19.079)
yeah yeah yeah.
Captain Coach (05:29.189)
Can... Can... Can...
Captain Coach (05:34.533)
Can you believe people are complaining that he's some weird character that isn't one of the core Marvel IP characters? People are actually getting mad about, I feel like he's gonna be so popular.
GragAlbert (05:34.78)
dinosaurs with lasers.
Coach Mills (05:43.022)
Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Yeah, no, no. Yeah. What's the what's the I don't understand. Like I saw someone make this point. I want to see if you all agree. Like you can't just have every character be the heavy hitters because then a year from now or even two, there won't be any heavy hitters like you want to especially when like rivals made Jeff popular and Luna popular like these characters, even White Fox, like these characters could get
GragAlbert (05:45.54)
Yeah, who doesn't wanna play a dinosaur with a laser beam? What are we talking about?
Coach Mills (06:11.448)
comic books and movies and TV shows later down the line because of Rivals. We don't need to just go doom into Thanos into fucking like every, you know, tier one fucking hero. What do y'all think? What do y'all think about that?
Captain Coach (06:22.329)
I can't wait for a Jeff miniseries. I'm gonna watch the hell out of that. I only watch original Marvel IP characters. Jeff Luna miniseries.
Coach Mills (06:24.782)
Oh yeah, oh yeah. Oh shit. No, it's crazy because when Jeff like pops out in a Marvel like Avengers movie one of these days, everyone's gonna lose their fucking mind like legit. Like imagine if you're watching like a big bad and you just hear the Jeff Olt sound and like those who know like crap, like they know what's coming. Yeah, for sure.
GragAlbert (06:25.842)
I
Captain Coach (06:38.363)
Yeah
GragAlbert (06:44.166)
haha
Captain Coach (06:44.635)
Ohhhh
GragAlbert (06:47.57)
They definitely got an opportunity to pull something cool with that. Yeah.
Captain Coach (06:52.185)
That's great.
Coach Mills (06:54.04)
But yeah, I mean, it's a new melee tank. I mean, he does have a beam, but you know, he's primarily just a big ass brawler is what he is. Got a lot of health. He can get up to 1600 health is what it seems like from what I was watching a little bit. He has a melee, but he has to be turned around to use it. He can't, because he uses his tail. Like you literally can't, you can't melee. He's like facing somebody. You can charm, but not melee.
Captain Coach (07:15.417)
Yeah, I saw.
GragAlbert (07:15.516)
So if you hit your melee button while facing forward, it'll hit someone behind you? Ooh! That's pretty cool.
Coach Mills (07:19.156)
Yes, exactly, exactly. But some people were doing some weave stuff with like chomp into melee, but then the one aiding really quickly to like actually like, you know, doing some shit like.
Captain Coach (07:27.323)
wait, if he's tech, I didn't think he would be techie like that.
GragAlbert (07:31.408)
That's cool, that's cool.
Coach Mills (07:31.822)
Well, we'll see how techy that actually goes. It might end up being like, you know, just a super simple thing. I don't know. Once I get my hands on him, I'm gonna play, I'm gonna do like an unranked two, whatever, just lock him over the weekend and see what's up, to figure him out.
GragAlbert (07:47.44)
Yeah, always a good idea.
Captain Coach (07:47.523)
Yeah, I'm definitely gonna give him a try. He seems like a response to all the ridiculous power creep in the game. it's like the tank response to all the crazy amount of damage. Cause the stats are just through the roof on this hero. And obviously he's like probably the biggest hit box. To me, I feel like if this is kind of the future of what tanks are gonna be, are just these big like stat sticks. Like I'm here for it. You know, like I don't know. Like if that's what it takes.
Coach Mills (08:00.418)
Yeah. Yup.
Coach Mills (08:07.113)
Hahaha
Coach Mills (08:11.574)
Yeah, I mean it's a fucking it's a it's a tank like that's a tank, you know, it feels you know Has that identity? It's not squint. He's certainly not fucking squishy. I can tell you that Just just big as hell. I am a little afraid I Hey, does he have like a version of it? I thought he'd I'm not 100 sure I do know he can get cc'd though like somewhat
GragAlbert (08:19.952)
Yeah. And he has things passive, Where he's not movable? I'm pretty sure he has that.
GragAlbert (08:32.176)
Yeah, yeah, he could definitely get CC, but I don't think he can get pulled off map or or booped or anything like that think he has the same passive as thing. I'm pretty sure I Don't know. I might be mistaken on that
Coach Mills (08:38.632)
interesting. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that would make sense because if I fucking in this pushed off the map as I'm just going to crash the fuck out. I mean, how are they going to miss it? Like, if you miss a dinosaur pull off the map, like just quit Spider-Man. I mean, that's the biggest hitbox I can imagine.
GragAlbert (08:44.316)
Dude, if Spider-Man could pull that dinosaur off the map, I would... Nah.
Captain Coach (08:47.759)
Hehehe.
GragAlbert (08:53.711)
Exactly.
Captain Coach (08:56.251)
I do think it's going to be good for the game, for the tank role. As a young boy, you're into one of four things. You've got planes, trains, dinosaurs, or Britney Spears. And those are the four.
Coach Mills (09:06.604)
Yeah, yo.
GragAlbert (09:07.458)
haha
Coach Mills (09:12.386)
Yeah, yeah my my son doesn't talk a lot but he says dinosaur every fucking time he sees a dinosaur like that's the one thing he says always no, he's gonna love I mean, yeah, no, it's insane. yeah, it's it's a dream come true for a lot of kids and I think It's just I mean, it's just fucking cool Like what other hero shooters gonna let you do that? Like what other game like competitive shooter you get to play as a dancer? I don't know. I'm hyped. I'm excited. I think it's gonna be a W What about Cyclops?
GragAlbert (09:19.462)
There you go. He's gonna love watching you play that dyno.
GragAlbert (09:39.911)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (09:41.922)
How do y'all feel about Cyclops coming second part of the season? Most likely will be a DPS. I think there's like there could be a chance it's a support, but it could be.
Captain Coach (09:50.523)
I saw some, Luke the Ninja made a tweet. It cracked me up, man. It's the cinematic. Have you guys seen the cinematic of Cyclops, or the new one?
GragAlbert (10:01.22)
I didn't actually. I didn't see it, I didn't see it. my god.
Coach Mills (10:01.322)
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. you did see it? It's legit.
Captain Coach (10:03.387)
Dude, it's... it is hype. And it's... he's just doing like this hyper beam that's just coming from the sky. It's so cinematic, so epic. And it's like, it's pretty obvious like he's gonna be a damaged joe, or at least in my opinion. he's... the comment is, Oh my god, this is gonna be the most insane tank ever! I would just... I'll have like that... Okay, that's good. That's really good.
Coach Mills (10:22.062)
No, that's man
GragAlbert (10:22.412)
hahahaha
GragAlbert (10:31.314)
I mean, I would take him as a tank, bro. I would take him as a tank. He easily could be a tank, easily.
Captain Coach (10:33.209)
Hey.
yeah.
Coach Mills (10:36.524)
Yeah, double tank season would be wild. For some reason, I just feel like they just always want a DPS. Like every season, feels like it's very rare that they don't have a DPS in a season. Now, I'm not saying they should. In fact, they probably fucking shouldn't. I would prefer other things. Of course, we all are tank mains on this pod, so we would prefer fucking tanks. But I kind of get it. I mean, it's like the most popular role. It's probably easier to make a DPS than a supporting tank.
GragAlbert (10:41.211)
It would be.
GragAlbert (10:56.732)
Ha ha ha!
Coach Mills (11:06.2)
They definitely matter less, feels like, mostly. Supports can break the game a lot easier than tanks do, you know? But,
GragAlbert (11:09.648)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (11:14.235)
Feels that way.
GragAlbert (11:14.418)
From a selfish standpoint, like having them actually be DPS's new characters, because I feel like when there's new character tanks or new character supports, that's when games are thrown the most early season. Because you have tons of people who never play the role just hopping on to try the character and just throwing. But a new DPS comes out, like, dude, every DPS is a thrower anyway. I'm John.
Captain Coach (11:29.787)
That's a root.
Coach Mills (11:30.382)
That's actually true No captain coach and I we have to we have to give credit to Rao because we we have we he figured it out and then we figured it out how to just go viral on on X Twitter now just by Slightly rage baiting everybody and you can go viral on Twitter really easily and I made one that just got like it just went viral that was like
Captain Coach (11:35.077)
Yeah
Coach Mills (11:57.6)
If you're not a tank, man, I better not see you locking the dinosaur or else. And everyone was like, who's going to stop me? It's like, you're right. I'm learning Spider-Man. Like, I'm just trolling people. But it's funny, like because that's what always happens is like, I feel like DPS players, they see a tank and they're like, wow, that's so cool. And then they they realize they have to be a fucking tank. Like you have to like do the jobs of a tank. And they're like, no, I can't just flank for the entire game or, you know, just do whatever the fuck I want. No, you're going to lose.
GragAlbert (12:07.251)
Hahaha
Captain Coach (12:18.019)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (12:18.652)
Ha ha ha ha!
Captain Coach (12:24.451)
We had a punisher where it was like a super close game, like super close. It came down to last fight and everybody was screaming not to stagger the Groot, like keep him alive. And sure enough, I see my punisher zipline in, tap him in the head and then brag about his KDA at the end of the game. These are the types of people we're dealing with, Lowering your chance to win while farming KDA than blaming people.
Coach Mills (12:47.717)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (12:51.365)
practically writes itself. These DPS players need to be stopped,
GragAlbert (12:52.732)
That's a good combo. That's a good combo.
Coach Mills (12:54.926)
Man that team up though with punny and and the dinosaur is sick being able to ride the dinosaur on punny That's just that's so cool. I'm I'm hyped about that. I think that's actually super sick Yeah, yeah, I don't even
Captain Coach (13:02.867)
I'm, yeah.
GragAlbert (13:07.41)
Gotta get Groot with rocket riding him and then Die to whatever, you just run forward and hold W and that's it.
Captain Coach (13:14.427)
Hey
Coach Mills (13:14.678)
Like, like looking at the desk, I have no idea what comp you even fit in. Like I, I, gotta, I guess I gotta put in a lot of hours. It's, it's really hard to know. Like he could make completely different comps or maybe he's, mean, brawl. don't, I don't fuck it. I got no idea. Well, we'll have to see.
Captain Coach (13:27.771)
I hope it's good. I hope it's actually good and not just like a meme one, like the torch thing one or whatever. I feel like it will be. Because mean, they can tune it any way they want. It's like how much damage. Because he gets the heals that the.
Coach Mills (13:32.43)
riot? Yeah. Yeah. He has damage reduction. Yeah, damage reduction and damage reduction. And he just gets to ride on a fucking dinosaur. He's creating space. I don't know. It seems good. It seems like it'd be cool.
GragAlbert (13:47.026)
mean, you're brawling front line and you have a shotgun punny on your back, that sounds really fucking scary, I'm not gonna lie. You can't stay in there, you have to leave immediately. Nah, but Hulk will feel good, because you just exile the dino and then punny just drops off him and just eat him alive.
Coach Mills (13:50.01)
That does sound insane that actually does sound insane that actually sounds nuts
Captain Coach (13:59.727)
You guys are.
Captain Coach (14:06.299)
One more thing I want to talk about before we got into patch notes because you were talking about like tanks ability to carry and it kind of made me think of it. Greg, we've been throwing around the idea of giving everybody a bit more like control over the outcome of the game by adding potentially passive healing over time once you're out of combat for a certain amount of time.
Coach Mills (14:06.318)
That's it.
GragAlbert (14:22.769)
Okay.
GragAlbert (14:30.704)
Yeah, Overwatch has that, Yeah, yeah. I mean, I thought that was good change in Overwatch. I don't know if it would be good in... It probably would be great in Rivals as well, but... I don't know.
Coach Mills (14:31.032)
Yep. Yep.
Captain Coach (14:32.314)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (14:37.806)
Because I don't know if you play any Tank Pool. Tank Pool has that passive, and it feels really good. It feels great, actually. Yeah.
Captain Coach (14:45.819)
I just wanted to get more tank players opinions on that, like if they before that or if there's any reason that I'm not thinking of that why that wouldn't be something that would just-
Coach Mills (14:51.575)
We haven't really found anyone that hasn't liked it yet. So we're gonna keep pitching it to people until we find someone that hates it.
GragAlbert (14:55.162)
Yeah. I mean, don't have any bad notions about it, I guess, other than like, I don't know, it would change how much you have to rely on strategists, but that's probably a good thing. But I don't know. I could see somebody being against that though. I could see somebody being against that just because they might feel like it lowers the value of the strategists and maybe it would make people less likely to play the role perhaps even more than it already is.
Captain Coach (15:08.475)
That's kind of the idea.
Coach Mills (15:09.268)
Yeah, yeah, let's let's rely on strategist.
Coach Mills (15:17.245)
I mean...
Coach Mills (15:20.718)
You still get, I mean, you still get, I mean, you get to free, the idea kind of is you free up their agency, right? They don't have to, they can be like, hey, fucking use cover. I'm gonna do this thing, you know what I'm saying? which I think it probably feels better for them. Like they'll probably enjoy more. I don't 100 % know, but I feel like they would.
GragAlbert (15:26.672)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (15:30.107)
Yeah, exactly.
GragAlbert (15:31.985)
Yeah. Yeah.
Captain Coach (15:37.659)
I think it would give everybody more freedom because now we're always, I mean, it might encourage gameplay loops where now no one's playing around supports, but you know, maybe I notoriously.
Coach Mills (15:50.944)
Anything that encourages less than three fucking supports I'm down with, you know what saying? Like, like anything, anything that does that.
Captain Coach (15:55.577)
That's a good point. Passive healing could potentially reduce the value of triple support just by it being in the game too.
GragAlbert (15:56.486)
Well...
GragAlbert (16:02.94)
True?
Coach Mills (16:03.414)
Right, because they're fighting for that support old charge too.
Captain Coach (16:06.267)
100%.
GragAlbert (16:07.57)
Well, I would have one other counter to it, just to play Devil's Advocate, is like, you know, there already is so much healing in Marvel Rivals, and a lot of people say that's like the biggest problem. So if we add even more healing, it could go at like, imagine a Psylocke, imagine a Psylocke dives in, gets 1 HP, double dashes out, invis, she's back in like 20 seconds, full health, doesn't even have to go back to her supports. what do you...
Captain Coach (16:15.227)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (16:17.934)
Yeah, I mean, could, yeah.
Captain Coach (16:20.751)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (16:29.71)
I mean, you might be able to down the support, like healing with this change. that you would have to maybe do both. Maybe that means compensate them with more damage. I don't fucking know. I haven't thought that far ahead, but I do see what you're saying. And you can also maybe balance it. Like how many seconds out of combat would it take to trigger it? You know, is it, yeah.
GragAlbert (16:34.928)
Yeah, that would be good idea, yeah.
GragAlbert (16:42.842)
No, yeah, I like that.
GragAlbert (16:49.328)
Yeah, those would be very important balance points that would have to be like fine-tuned for sure, but I think the idea is good. I like the idea of people being able to make their own plays.
Captain Coach (16:59.739)
Do you have any ideas for the game? Anything that you've wanted to talk about? And I feel like that's something we should probably ask more Mills. It's like if people just have generic ideas or general ideas that they've always kind of wanted to get out, just give them an opportunity. Is there something that you've always thought about that you could see the game could improve from a change?
GragAlbert (17:17.522)
I mean, I always have micro ideas for characters, of course, but I would say one of the bigger changes that I really would love is separate queues. It could be bad for queue health, maybe, but I just would love if there was a fully solo-only mode and then a dynamic queue mode. And it was just like two ranked queues. One is any, it doesn't matter what ranks you are, just any group, any number of people, five people, four people, six people, at all ranks, you could just play with, it's designated to play with people.
and then have the other one be fully solo only. And I think that solo only queue quality and match quality would be absolutely bonkers great. And then at the same time, anytime you wanted to play with friends, you didn't have to worry about being in the same rank. You just swap over to the dynamic queue and vibe out. But I don't know.
Captain Coach (18:00.859)
I love that. would, I'm 100 % for it. League does that.
Coach Mills (18:03.138)
I like it. I'm a little conflicted. I'm a little conflicted on that. Cause I feel like duos, like being able to synergize with one person completely is a skill. Like that is a skill. And if those are the only two options, one of them is the dynamic. there's no, you said there's like no rank disparity, right? So you could queue with, right.
GragAlbert (18:04.846)
Exactly, it's a similar system from League.
GragAlbert (18:15.184)
It definitely is.
GragAlbert (18:23.514)
Yeah, like you just play with any group of people and it's just meant for you to be able to play with people you want to play with.
Coach Mills (18:28.97)
Right, right, right. My opinion on that is that that's for quick play. There should be one mode that's very competitive. In general, I think that the problem is NetEase doesn't even take its own ranked mode that seriously. Captain Coach brought this up before. They don't treat it like it's an actual ranked mode. There's too much training wheel stuff and too much silly rules and performance bonuses and all that stuff.
GragAlbert (18:35.516)
Yeah, that's fair.
GragAlbert (18:45.872)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (18:58.17)
Yeah, it definitely feels a little mobile game-y like for the first few ranks.
Coach Mills (18:58.516)
I do. Right, right, right. But I mean, like a solo kit, like a solo ranked mode where you can't play with a duo that is super, super competitive. That is a step in the hyper competitive nature. But I think there's other things they could do first before they go that far. That feels like I don't know. Maybe it would be fun, though. I think I like to solo queue a lot, so I would probably I mean.
Captain Coach (19:01.537)
Well, that,
GragAlbert (19:17.424)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (19:23.438)
Or, yeah, mean, or you could keep like the, like, the dynamic, you could be a little more strict if you wanted it to be, you know, so it could maybe more closely represent our current system. I just think the addition of like a completely solo only could be really interesting. And, you know, I'm biased because I did a solo queue only fucking decree on myself for a year straight. I did not do it with anybody for a year. And during that time, I just felt like I noticed, like, good things about myself being able to adapt more, not only just like with swapping.
Coach Mills (19:38.454)
Yeah. I saw that. That was insane.
GragAlbert (19:52.236)
I honestly I don't even swap like I'm not even that I don't have that deep of a bag It's not even about swapping It's more about like catering to other people's play styles and I viewed that as like a unique skill that a lot of times I would see like somebody who clearly Stacked their way there or you know always plays the duo like not being able to be as flexible with new people around them And I I guess selfishly I've always been like man I wish there was a mode where I could really show off how much of a people person I could be with anybody, you know
Coach Mills (20:16.79)
Right, right, right.
Captain Coach (20:16.869)
Hmm.
GragAlbert (20:18.48)
because everyone here is solo and it's all about, at the end of the day, obviously if there's a huge skill discrepancy, that's another question, but at the end of the day, if you're playing in a rank you deserve to be in, how well you vibe with your teammates can be the difference in just motivating the team to work together.
Coach Mills (20:30.146)
I guess that makes sense, yeah. Yeah, I agree.
Captain Coach (20:31.737)
Yeah, personally, I think the quality of games has done nothing but go down over season after season. think in part of that, it's a lot of balance. But it's also the fact that, we got rid of stacking, obviously, in lower ranks. I would argue the coordination really isn't the greatest in those ranks. Maybe I'm wrong. If you disagree, leave a comment. Like, maybe you and your boys got a stack, and you just run shit in GM lobbies, and you don't play a lot.
But I've always felt like the cues were way better quality with like three or four stack, enjoyed the game way more that way. I don't know how you did it, Greg, like how you kept your sanity, man. What's your advice to someone who is a solo only player trying to climb? Like, I mean, you kind of said it, but like, is there any like specific tips, like mental tips or like real life things that you do?
GragAlbert (21:08.614)
Ha!
GragAlbert (21:15.878)
Yeah, there's like a mental gymnastics that I developed during league days that I carried over to rivals. The main thing basically, there's like two ways I can describe it. One way is like view the game as like a roguelike fun game where you're playing a single player roguelike and you know sometimes you might roll a dungeon that has impossible boss that you're gonna lose. But like the fun of the roguelike is to see how far you could get, you know, given your shitty parameters that you're spawned in with.
Coach Mills (21:19.694)
You
Coach Mills (21:41.978)
so your teammates are NPCs, I got you. Okay, okay.
Captain Coach (21:42.811)
Hmm
GragAlbert (21:44.378)
Yeah, exactly. Or everyone, the enemy team and your team, they're all just, you know, basically background effects that you can't change. Because in reality, you can't change what other people are going to do at the end of the day. They're going to do what they want to do. And that's it. All you could do is like see, basically challenge yourself to have this fun. Like, Ooh, how could I maximize our chances of winning? Even though I have six DPS is on my team. You know what I mean? Like you might not win it. You're definitely going to lose it, but you could find some, if you can manage to find some enjoyment in like maximizing your win con, even, even if it's
Captain Coach (21:45.306)
Wow.
Coach Mills (22:07.758)
Hehehehehe
Captain Coach (22:10.478)
Uh-huh.
GragAlbert (22:13.552)
very slim. That's like the only way to mentally get yourself through the solo queue. Like you just have to like not even view it as a win loss, like whatever thing you're just in it to maximize your value under different circumstances and view that as a fun challenge like a single player game.
Captain Coach (22:26.085)
But you don't just yell at people and make them adapt instead of you? Well, I thought that's what you're supposed to do.
Coach Mills (22:26.636)
I it.
GragAlbert (22:28.882)
I do I do sometimes listen it's easier said than done. It's easier said than done It's a tough mental gymnastics to maintain sometimes I'm doing good at it other times I'm not but You know, I don't know at the end of the day. You can't really control people you can't control people That's that's that's the final the final lesson they have to really accept is most people just won't do what you tell them to do and you can't do anything about it and it sucks
Captain Coach (22:33.467)
I do all the time
Coach Mills (22:35.342)
One One-
Coach Mills (22:43.196)
You did it though. You did it. That's sick though.
Coach Mills (22:53.422)
My thing is like, when I don't feel like the rank system is that competitive, I'm really frustrated when there's stuff like, you can't trio in Celestial, just add it in. Cause it's like, if the game, if the rank system is very competitive and they take it seriously and there's like all these no performance bonuses and all this stuff that make it competitive, okay, I understand having.
Captain Coach (23:05.019)
No, it-
Coach Mills (23:16.61)
capping it to two is competitive, is very competitive. But when the luring system doesn't even take itself seriously and then I can't play with my friends in Celestial, I don't like it. I personally don't like it. I know you haven't trialed a lot, like, or even do it a lot, Greg, but trialing is so fun, but we just don't get to do it. We just don't get to do it. You don't get to enjoy it.
GragAlbert (23:32.348)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (23:32.601)
Yeah, you kind of missed out on that era.
GragAlbert (23:34.77)
I did, I did. I was kind of like sad about that. Cause I thought I was gonna, you know what it was? I made the vow in like March of 2025 and like two weeks later, I was two games off one of them of all. So I was like, dude, I'll do the solo queue challenge easy. And it just kept on happening every season. I'd get like one or two games off of one of them of all, not make it. And it just, I just got stuck, bro. Just got stuck.
Captain Coach (23:57.371)
But you got it. You got it done. All right. So officially qualified now to give his hot takes on these patch notes.
Coach Mills (23:58.21)
You got it. Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah. All right. Yeah, we're going to.
GragAlbert (23:58.332)
We got it. We got it done. We got it done.
GragAlbert (24:06.674)
Exactly.
Coach Mills (24:08.733)
All right, we're gonna go ahead and jump into the patches. We're gonna go over each character buff and nerf one by one and talk about our opinions about it. yeah, it's pretty much what we say is law. So don't even disagree in the comments. I'm just kidding. All right. Let's take a look. Let's take a look. Okay. So we're gonna start with the tanks first, of course. Tank pool. So basically the amount of healing that is provided to two
Captain Coach (24:20.389)
Ha
GragAlbert (24:20.693)
Ha ha.
Coach Mills (24:37.55)
Tankpool himself, when he is ulting, goes down from 50 per second to 25 per second. So it's half. And his primaries, now unupgraded, is gonna do 34 damage per shot instead of 36. And upgraded, it's gonna do 39 damage per shot instead of 42. How do y'all feel about this? I'll let you go first and then I have a lot to say about Tankpool, because I basically one trick him.
Captain Coach (25:02.843)
You want to go, Greg?
GragAlbert (25:03.996)
Sure, I think Tankpool is the best tank in the game personally, and I do think these are pretty significant nerfs that are gonna help keep him a little bit more in line with everyone else, but I still don't know if it's gonna completely make him not S tier, just because I think the main reason he's so good is because he'll always get his ult first in neutral phase when you open up the game every time, just because he has a different kind of ultimate than every other tank.
So when one of the tanks is getting their ult first every single time, no matter what, and then able to just run your back line down, I feel like it's really hard to balance that to ever be fair. I think this is a good step in right direction though, because they're basically halving his survivability with that healing provided. So I don't know, it might be enough, we'll have to wait and see, but I just think that Tankpool's very, very strong. No one can match his pace at all when it comes to ult generation and...
If this is enough nerfs then he'll be maybe bad? that's thing, he seems like a binary character because of the way he's designed. Either his ult's not gonna be good enough to take control and then it's just useless, or it's good enough to run the fight and then he always wins the first fight and snowballs from there. So, I don't know.
Captain Coach (26:14.765)
I think this is a pretty good nerf. This is one of, I feel like one of the probably the bigger nerfs we've seen for heroes. I think this is significant. I think he'll still be a strong tank. I probably still S tier to be honest, but I actually think he'll be, this kind of puts him in line, I feel like with other heroes now. I think he's now in the realm of like, okay, kind of balanced.
Coach Mills (26:34.284)
Yeah, so most people know that I play Tankpool a lot. He's like my most played character. And to be honest with you, he's still A or even S tier. He's most likely bottom of S. And the thing that's weird and the disconnect I think a lot of people have with Tankpool is he still requires like aim, like a bit. And players like that means that if you're not Celestial, you're probably not able to really carry, but he scales so hard once you
You know how to position, you have good aim, you have like ult timing. Like once you start to get to high celestial eternity lobbies, like your team is walking back line with you and shooting what you're ulting and you just kill everything exactly like Greg said, you just build up ultimate so fast. And yes, you're less survivable, but that's not going to stop the Invis from just self-destructing when you alter first, right? I think that this does make him feel like we've talked about this before when you get used to how a character feels.
and then they get weaker and weaker, it feels kind of bad. Like this character is still gonna be good, but he's gonna feel bad. Like he's gonna feel bad to play. If you compare how much healing he gets now in his ults compared to what it was on launch, he was literally immortal before, like legit immortal. And now you can just fucking die. You have to have your cool down. You could go in with no cool downs and you wouldn't die, but now you'd probably need your bubble cool down. You probably need some team pressure to live or cover or whatever.
And like poking is gonna feel really bad, especially if you don't have the mechanics to like hit some of my headshots, his pistols are gonna feel kind of gross. Like it's gonna feel bad. That doesn't mean he's bad. He just feels worse than his old self, right? I think I agree with both of you. He's still gonna be good.
Captain Coach (28:16.091)
Do you think he's still worth a band now?
Coach Mills (28:20.748)
The problem, think with pool, he's still just so flexible. It kinda depends, cause I really don't think that there are good tank pool players. Like at this point, all the good tank pool players are like pretty high in rank. He does help to enable like the Jeff team up. I think the Jeff team up with him is really, really strong and it's still really, really strong. I think for a lot of ranks, it's probably not worthy of a ban, but I mean at the highest levels, yeah.
100 % pros are still gonna ban this character 100 % there's just no way they're gonna let him through he's just too flexible he fits into too many good good compositions and The most important thing is he's like the only tank that can mark Hellas genes name wars force them off of off angles Like you ain't doing that on most tanks unfortunately, but you can do it on tank pool. So I said that's yeah, it's pretty much Yeah, I still it's still high as like I said, you know, it's an actual nerf like it's a real nerf to the character
Captain Coach (29:11.791)
Yep. I think it's a good change. think it's a good change. Yeah. Yeah.
GragAlbert (29:17.296)
Yeah, it's definitely, I definitely hope to see like, tank pools that just initiate off rip actually die with this change, maybe.
Captain Coach (29:24.891)
Well, they just run at you. They should still have to actually play the game.
Coach Mills (29:27.298)
Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree.
GragAlbert (29:29.098)
Yeah, right. Through the amount of times I'm just like playing, I'm like chilling, then all of a sudden I just hear Tankpool and then I look and he's literally in five people not dying. I'm just like, what is happening?
Coach Mills (29:38.562)
Yeah, he's not gonna be able to do that to that level anymore. But I mean, like if he old something and the daredevil goes in with his old, like everyone's still dying. Like everyone, like you just need a little coordination. You're not Thanos anymore. But you know, yeah, it's okay. I don't care. I'm playing devil Dino. I don't care anymore. I'm not gonna lie. I've been expecting him to get really nerfed like this for a long time. I'm surprised it took him this long to do it.
GragAlbert (29:44.484)
Yes. Yeah.
GragAlbert (29:56.028)
Ha ha ha!
Captain Coach (30:03.515)
took a while.
GragAlbert (30:04.85)
Yeah, I'm excited to see how he feels.
Coach Mills (30:07.212)
Okay, so next up is Emma Frost. So Emma Frost now, the pulse falloff begins at four seconds instead of three after not hitting an enemy. So that's the beam, the beam like charge starts to decay from my understanding. And then, yeah.
GragAlbert (30:20.496)
Yeah, her having an extra second is huge.
Captain Coach (30:22.432)
I feel like that's a bigger buff than people realize. A lot bigger. Yep.
Coach Mills (30:24.814)
Yeah, just more uptime, right? Yeah. And then now you can reposition the shield every second instead of every three seconds, which I don't even know why it was at three seconds. Like, why was it at three seconds? Like for what? And then now her diamond form and ult to give her a 25 % damage reduction instead of 20.
GragAlbert (30:26.512)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (30:32.479)
That's all so huge.
Captain Coach (30:33.605)
That is another.
Captain Coach (30:43.715)
Yeah, Emma's meta again, by the way, like hard meta. Hard meta.
GragAlbert (30:45.778)
I so, I think so, I think these are really really- I mean I always think that Emma's kit is so good by itself that any little adjustments will- like she's always just a stone throw away from being one of the best tanks in the game at all times because of how her kit's designed. I mean she's a tank that has damage reduction and percent max HP burst. That's very hard for anyone to deal with and the fact that she has a shield as well so she could somewhat combat long-range abilities unlike- like Thing is the only other one who can match those same description that I said but Thing is
just food for poke. kinda is as well, but she has like a little bit of tools to deal with them, like paired with her other abilities is crazy.
Captain Coach (31:20.025)
Yeah. She's a tank that beats other tanks that has better tools than other tanks do to deal with all the other range heavy damage. The damage reduction back to 25 % is a much bigger buff than people realize, too. I we saw back when she lost it how much her win rate suffered. It's because the sustain in the game is
Coach Mills (31:30.947)
bullshit.
Captain Coach (31:46.663)
so high that people with damage reduction effects like this and like Thing, their effective health is just so much greater. So they can apply pressure at the most key moments, harder and like easier than other heroes. And it's just, we saw it with Thing when he lost it. I would like to see them give this to Thing and shift power away. I'm okay with the buff back to 25%. I'm okay with that. But I still think they should have.
Coach Mills (32:00.13)
That's a good point. That's a really good point.
GragAlbert (32:01.158)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (32:13.965)
shifted her power out of the mine crystal, make her less oppressive against tanks, make her maybe able to kill squishies through something other than just grabbing them and one-shotting them. I think the fall-off, I actually think these are good emma buffs. I just wish there was some compensation somewhere else because I think she's gonna be overpowered now.
GragAlbert (32:33.158)
just hate her crystal, I've always hated it man.
Coach Mills (32:34.361)
My hot take is still like everyone in 7.5 and 7 people were talking about Emma like she was like the worst character in the game. Like I was, I watched a whole bunch of people's tier list, whole bunch of people talking about it. Oh, Emma's terrible right now. It's like, even before these buffs, like Emma was not unplayable. Like even if you thought she was bad compared to a lot of other tanks, she's certainly not bad compared to half the DPS in the game. Like she never has been.
Captain Coach (32:35.321)
Yeah, the crystal.
Captain Coach (32:59.227)
Can I run some like it does it does it seem like this hero in particular? Gets way more attention than other tanks like what is that am I crazy and thinking like she's got to change every patch Mike They want her to be good for some reason I can't for the life of me figure out why she does have a nice ass skin though Yeah, she has a really big new skin. She's got her ass is sticking out. That's that's crazy. I can't believe they're showing all that I thought this was a kid's Yeah, okay
GragAlbert (33:14.93)
Skins, skins, skins, skins bro.
GragAlbert (33:24.166)
No cape.
Coach Mills (33:24.714)
Hey, hey speaking of did y'all see the new did y'all see the new Magneto Thor and rogue skins? Jesus Christ They know their audience. They know their fucking audience. Yeah, that's why I'm glad like I'm glad Well, you know, we we we ain't beating around the bush like we don't need to be we don't need to be shy about it
GragAlbert (33:35.186)
They're not trying to hide it. They're not trying to hide it.
Yeah.
Captain Coach (33:46.456)
I think if you're a brawl player, Emma's a band worthy hero again. I think she's right to the top of your bins. If you play thing, if you play brawl, you're gonna wanna get this hero off the board.
GragAlbert (33:52.656)
It's tough to deal with.
Coach Mills (33:58.028)
Well, I still, cause I liked, think venom is still gonna be really good this patch, like extremely good considering none of the dive DPS got nerfed and neither did the dive tanks. Like Emma's still not that good against thing, or not thing, venom. He's not that good against venom, mainly because you can always just disengage your diamond form. That's why, like it's one thing that's way too long and you can easy, you can simple swing out of it. Like that, I mean, bad venoms are gonna get grabbed by it every single time, but like Emma,
Captain Coach (34:08.783)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (34:12.634)
Hmm?
GragAlbert (34:17.522)
Her Diamond forums cooldown is higher than most divers.
Coach Mills (34:28.27)
If she's combined with like, Invis, and Thing, and like all this bullshit, yeah sure. But like, by herself, it's actually really hard for her to set the terms on a character like Venom, because he can always just dip out whenever he wants. He can just leave. Like, second she pops the diamond, he's gone. You just simple swing out, and you're back in, and you just have like, so long to fight her, and she can't do anything about you, like at all.
GragAlbert (34:46.119)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (34:47.514)
I mean...
Captain Coach (34:51.585)
I mean, do we all realize here that she's stronger than when she was initially nerfed because they left on the damage reduction during her ultimate. So now she doesn't have to pre diamond to get the damage reduced. she's, I don't know. I think this is just like a stupid change and I just, it makes no sense. It really bothers me.
Coach Mills (35:05.634)
You think she's that strong? I mean, yeah, she's not quite launch strength, right? Cause launch strength, her cooldowns were really low from what I remember. But she is strong. She's just definitely strong. We'll have to see, cause I'm just wondering how Emma Frost lines up against the dive. Like I think we're in a dive meta mostly. And I just wonder how she lines up against that dive meta. Like how does she line up against the Daredevil Black Cat Venom comp? Like does she actually line up good against that comp? I don't know.
GragAlbert (35:13.37)
Yeah, yeah, she also had two kicks in Diamond Form 2.
Captain Coach (35:27.739)
think if you're good at Emma, she'll be.
GragAlbert (35:34.332)
think so. I was gonna say think the main reason in my opinion why Emma's been weaker lately isn't even because of her stats or changes I think it's just because of how dominant like some I know we're kind of been in a dive meta But at the same time like yes, it's a dive meta, but there's also like three or four outlier like hitscan DPS that are just Ridiculous, you know, like Phoenix hella, know or and even like Star-Lord Psylocke as well like and all those characters Like they just shit all over Emma Emma's just like sitting there getting
Coach Mills (35:51.987)
yeah, I mean, they're always broken. Right, of course.
Captain Coach (36:01.839)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (36:02.812)
halted from 30 miles away with no agency whatsoever.
Coach Mills (36:05.23)
Well, none of those characters got nerfed. In fact, two of them got buffed massively. We'll talk about that a little bit. So that's the only that's the only fee. mean, I'm not fear. I don't want Emma Frost to be meta, but that's the only thing that I think could maybe keep her in check. She definitely does have. There are some matchups that are really frustrating to play Emma into or play into Emma, right? Like certain characters. I hate playing playing Thor. I hate playing Thor and Emma's. I hate it because unlike Venom, I can't dip. I can't dip way the fuck out. I can dash once and that motherfucker can grab me through it like she's
GragAlbert (36:10.448)
So I-
GragAlbert (36:17.574)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (36:24.87)
Yeah, any brawl is enough.
Coach Mills (36:34.83)
Her little grab is so far. Like I swear.
GragAlbert (36:36.774)
And I'm pretty sure she's gonna be able to chokeslam the dino by the way, which is gonna look so goofy. But I guarantee you she's gonna be able to chokeslam the dino.
Captain Coach (36:40.431)
Hahaha.
Coach Mills (36:42.808)
Jesus. Fuck it. Maybe she is a band cab. Just, just maybe she is. Okay. Yeah.
Captain Coach (36:47.425)
I think she is. For brawl, at least.
GragAlbert (36:50.076)
She's gonna be the only one who's gonna be able to shut him down, I'm telling you. It's gonna be annoying as fuck.
Coach Mills (36:53.166)
The next character, small maybe buff, the thing got a 50 HP buff, the thing.
Captain Coach (36:59.099)
Yeah, don't worry guys.
GragAlbert (37:02.962)
I mean, just like coach was saying, every bit of HP when you look at it under the lens of damage reduction on top of it, like one HP is equal to like a hundred because of like how much damage reduction and with how much healing there is buying you more time to get healed. Like an extra 50 health is like an effective 400 health with all that damage reduction.
Coach Mills (37:19.384)
Done it. Did this hero need buffs? Like who the fuck asked for this? Thing is good. Like he's good right now. Like really good right now on live. I mean, it's not like an insane buff. Like they could have done some crazy stuff, but what's the point of this?
GragAlbert (37:23.824)
I don't think so.
Captain Coach (37:36.955)
I mean, it lets him stay in longer. It's a bit more forgiving when he full commits. think this is like not, there's worse ways to buff thing. I don't think this is terrible. 50 health obviously is like not as significant on a high health hero as it is on like for like 25 health on a 250 target. So 50 isn't like a ton, but it's gonna help.
Coach Mills (37:51.414)
Yeah, I just don't understand their mentality though. that's my, I'm trying to get out what is their, like, if they're deciding to buff thing, but why? Like what's the catalyst to decide to buff thing?
GragAlbert (38:05.616)
I could see it, maybe they're just like, thing feels really good, but then if they have one poke character on their team, you feel like you're feeding. yeah. Yeah.
Captain Coach (38:11.203)
What I actually I actually know what they What I actually know why they gave him this buff like I know exactly why it's because they're giving Ben's rocky exterior a buff so he can soak up more pressure during prolonged frontline brawls Didn't you read the didn't you read the best? Sorry, sorry
Coach Mills (38:11.532)
You still feed! You still don't- you're still not good against those comps, though.
Coach Mills (38:19.48)
Is there a skin?
Coach Mills (38:24.554)
That doesn't even make any sense. It doesn't even make any sense. Like, I'm just trying to understand. Cause my argument, so like even though the CC change like does hurt thing every once in a while, I think because of the shift to hyper mobility in 7.5 and the like 7.02, I think thing has actually been better this past two seasons than he has been in the past.
GragAlbert (38:24.804)
Ha!
Coach Mills (38:52.238)
Like I actually feel like thing has been in a better place than he's been in a long time. You can't play him against these like all in poke comps, but like you don't, you just don't play him these all against these all in poke comps. He's kind of like, you just whip him out when he's good.
Captain Coach (39:04.463)
Greg looks like he wants to say something. We've been running the Gamma thing all day, baby.
GragAlbert (39:07.378)
No, we've been popping off with it the thing is yeah like like coach was saying earlier if you brawl together He could be very very effective with like two tanks having damage reduction or or two tanks being in there and applying the the vulnerability Think Dino could be insane. Yes
Coach Mills (39:09.026)
Yeah, you did.
Coach Mills (39:19.47)
Oh, think Dino think Dino. Wait, wait, wait, wait, thing. Dino Hulk triple brawl. Let's fucking go with Dan with the speed boost for Mantis. Let's fucking go. All right. yeah, yeah, yeah. But but but here's the thing. If if you get grabbed by Emma, like she's not going to be able to kill you, right? You're like, how much health do you have on Dino? Like that's kind of a funny it's well, right.
Captain Coach (39:27.579)
Yeah, I'm so down.
GragAlbert (39:27.813)
I mean...
Captain Coach (39:31.585)
yeah, and if you play Dino by the way, you're definitely gonna wanna ban Emma, I forgot about that. And probably Thing too.
GragAlbert (39:35.078)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (39:46.642)
think it's more just the time of the duration of the CC, that whole animation.
Coach Mills (39:49.442)
But to me it's funny, like characters that have so much health that it's like, I don't give a fuck about your CNC. Like I'll be stationary for three seconds. I ain't dying. You know, I kind of like, that's kind of interesting to me. It's like, we're not going to give you ability to outplay these things. We're just going to give you enough HP to just not give a fuck. I don't know. That's kind of interesting.
GragAlbert (40:07.122)
I mean they might need to give him more HP though because like look at at a whole a whole cult if you whole cult in front of six people that 1550 HP doesn't it feels like 4 HP bro and that's just gonna be Dino's reality at all times so I don't know he might struggle a lot bro we'll see we'll see he does have the bubble though he does have he does have the giant bubble that's gonna be huge for him
Coach Mills (40:13.806)
Ah, doesn't do shit. That's fair. That's fair. That's fair.
Captain Coach (40:16.141)
Yeah. Yeah, I
Coach Mills (40:23.854)
We'll have to see, it's definitely going to be interesting.
Mmm.
Captain Coach (40:29.915)
I honestly don't hate this thing change. Like I actually think it's fine. He does get bursted out. He's a bit more forgiving. Like I'm not opposed to like a little micro adjustment like this, but.
Coach Mills (40:34.252)
You think it's
Coach Mills (40:39.21)
I hate, yeah. Okay. I don't, I won't hate a thing better. Like I like think, I think think is cool.
Captain Coach (40:45.263)
Yeah, like I don't think this is going to make him OP. It probably helps him out in like tough matchups. Yeah.
Coach Mills (40:47.362)
Yeah, a little bit. right. That's all we have for Vanguard. So any thoughts about the fact that there's only three changes for Vanguard? Any strong thoughts? I'm surprised that we didn't get a lot of nerfs. I'm surprised that only Tankpool got nerfs. I'm surprised no Venom nerf. I'm surprised. Like honestly, no Thor nerf. I thought I was really expecting Thor to be on the chopping block, to be honest with you. And he's not. I'm cool with it. Cause I'm probably going to play him a lot more after this.
GragAlbert (40:49.959)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (41:10.349)
I mean...
Captain Coach (41:16.173)
Yeah, I mean, I would like to see maybe like a Groot nerf potentially.
Coach Mills (41:19.702)
Yeah, he's probably needed in there for a while and they're just like, Yeah, Hulk, Hulk, just nerd, just gut him? No, I'm kidding, Hulk's fun.
Captain Coach (41:22.041)
Maybe venom a little bit. Strange team up makes them pretty good.
But don't worry guys, Thing gets 50 health, Starlord gets 50 ammo. Oh my god.
Coach Mills (41:33.23)
yeah, we'll talk about that. We'll talk about it. I ran the numbers on that shit too. We'll talk about that a lot in a second. But I honestly think, I think the tank role is this, this, he was the only outlier in my opinion, like the true outlier. I think the tank role is pretty balanced right now. I think it's pretty, like there's not really a bad tank. Like maybe Penny, but she's still good on certain spots and all the other tanks are reasonable. mean, we'll, we'll talk about it later, but Rogue.
Captain Coach (41:49.647)
I agree.
Captain Coach (41:55.067)
Yet there's like tons of penny players who are like flooding top 500. know, she's still, yeah, what's up?
Coach Mills (42:01.384)
mean, Rogue didn't get any changes, neither did Gambit. We'll talk about that when we probably get to the Gambit section, but that is probably something that should have been addressed.
GragAlbert (42:09.956)
One thing I would have liked to have seen from the patch notes regarding tanks is like just something about tenacity. don't know what would have been... It's just like I... So far universally, tell me if you guys feel differently. Every... From every tank player I've heard from, everyone like universally agrees that we don't really notice getting tenacity like ever, but we see it being applied to our targets often. So I don't know that's like a universal tank experience, but it seems like enough people feel that.
Coach Mills (42:15.126)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (42:32.128)
I don't really notice it like hardly ever except for randomly when it annoys me. that's like, I honestly feel like we could just get rid of it and it would not think nothing would like, just remove it. Or just don't even put that effect in the game. I don't really think we need that effect in the game. If you have a problem with CC, let's nerf some of the really long forms of CC. That's it.
GragAlbert (42:38.917)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (42:44.633)
Remove tenacity, rework it.
GragAlbert (42:46.83)
Exactly, or at the very least, we're working on tanks a bit. Yeah.
Captain Coach (42:52.603)
So now.
GragAlbert (42:56.699)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (42:57.477)
Tenacity is a buff to everybody and a nerf to like three or four heroes and all those heroes happen to be tanks. Congratulations. You failed. Congratulations. You completely failed.
GragAlbert (43:03.23)
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, I feel like they needed to address something with tenacity in tanks. They needed to address something. Like maybe they could have made a passive here where like tanks generate tenacity stacks two times as fast.
Coach Mills (43:03.79)
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, Complete failure wait, that's wait wait that that's gonna be the title of the video. I'm gonna put that on the thumbnail complete failing
Captain Coach (43:10.747)
Complete failure.
Captain Coach (43:17.371)
I have a video, I talked about it last pod, I said all my ideas how to fix it, they just wanna like conveniently not put them in the notes, I will crash it. We haven't even gotten to the bad stuff, Coach Mill, like don't get me started. Cornisal's already capped right now.
Coach Mills (43:20.876)
Hahahaha
Yeah, you know, I think I think the tank the tank changes are kind of fine but okay, okay, let Let I Agree I agree 100 % with y'all. Okay. Let's talk about iron fist So iron fist Jeet Kune Do hits now reduce the cooldown of his block by 1.2 seconds instead of up from one second and his kick first strike damage goes from 35 to 40
GragAlbert (43:32.562)
That's all I'm saying, yeah, I would have liked to have seen something addressing tenacity, because it does feel like a failure of a system.
Coach Mills (43:55.63)
What do y'all think? They said that they're sharpening his martial arts, increasing his burst potential, smoothing his combos. What do y'all think?
Captain Coach (44:05.539)
I have thoughts, I mean, Greg, you want to go?
GragAlbert (44:09.586)
I think the cooldown reduction on Dragon's Defense, what's the total, do you know the total cooldown of Dragon's Defense by default?
Coach Mills (44:16.055)
I do not.
Captain Coach (44:16.123)
It's like, I think it's like 10 or 12 or something like that.
GragAlbert (44:19.3)
Okay, because one second to 1.2 could be gigantic depending on the the Iron Fist player and how well they're able to like make use of that.
Coach Mills (44:27.854)
It's probably gonna feel like a lot to be honest.
Captain Coach (44:31.576)
Yeah, I-
GragAlbert (44:31.698)
Because when Iron Fist has his block up, he can make so much space. It's crazy, dude. He gets the block and then he gets like the overshield and then he's just punching and it's just... It's really, really hard. And he gets more mobility because he's punching so fast and he could use it for mobility, so... Every time he gets a block off, it adds so much value on the character. So I do think this is a good change. I don't know if it's gonna be game breaking or anything like that, but I know a lot of Iron Fist mains have been, you know, hoping for a little nudge in the right direction and this seems like a nice buff that might help.
Captain Coach (44:46.107)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (44:59.95)
15.
Yeah, I think the Iron Fist players are definitely going to be happy about the increased damage on kick. believe, correct me if I'm wrong, the kick actually has bonus damage to lower health targets, correct? So that five is actually multiplied at low health. So it's actually, it is significant. Like, don't let Iron Fist trick you into saying it's not.
Coach Mills (45:05.485)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (45:16.475)
Yeah, that's true.
Coach Mills (45:20.706)
The cooldowns of Dragon Defense hits... okay, I see. Okay, I'm just trying to read. Okay, I see. So the hits are reduced by 1.2. Gotcha. Okay, I'm just trying to make sure I understand this fully.
Captain Coach (45:24.463)
I'm talking about the But if you were to...
Captain Coach (45:33.307)
An argument I've seen from Iron Fist on like an Iron Fist main I follow on X is that you're never gonna get a second parry with the way like the current loop where you go in shield jump like, but my argument would be like, well now you have more options to potentially parry earlier in fights because you know you'll get a second one and you can stay in a lot longer. I think this is over, I agree with Greg. Greg, I think this is a good change. And I think that kick buff is actually a little better than people may think.
GragAlbert (45:33.532)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (46:02.011)
because I think he's gonna, he needed assassination potential in squishies. Will this give him enough? Probably not, but do we really want an iron fist meta?
Coach Mills (46:06.326)
I don't, the problem is like kick, kick most of the time is use it to disengage and like we've talked a lot to a lot of iron fist players. They want him to get his ability to like actually fight squishies back. And I don't really think this does it. This probably makes him really annoying to fight in long drawn out fights. Cause he just gets so much more uptime. Like, you know, 0.2 seconds, every single hit extra to his block.
Like any fight that he's getting multiple blocks off, maybe like the ultimate stalling fights. I don't know. We'll have to see, but I don't really think this helps him in.
GragAlbert (46:43.152)
Yeah, I feel like we need to see somebody testing the damage threshold with that kick damage, like seeing, does it make the difference between one-shotting, like with a certain combo, you know what mean? I would like to see that info, and then also for the block, like how much of his block will he get down? Like when he does a block and then goes into the super fast punchy, all those super fast punchies are gonna be reducing the cooldown, right? Or, no? the slow punch only? Okay, okay, okay, okay.
Captain Coach (47:03.727)
No, no, it's the slow punch. Yeah. Yeah, I think the best buff for Iron Fist is just a nerf to other DPS heroes, which, sorry guys.
Coach Mills (47:14.862)
Yeah, also like please please net is just this guy should not his identity should not be hitting tanks Can we please just make it give him a flat damage? That's it Just make him flat damage like I know my ass is gonna get fucking beat up on on this goddamn devil Dino because this guy does fucking percentage damage to my ass and I'm sitting at max HP like
GragAlbert (47:15.632)
Ha ha ha.
GragAlbert (47:38.532)
Yeah, dude. Wolf and Iron Fist are gonna eat you.
Coach Mills (47:41.314)
Like why the fuck is that this guy's identity? Like come on man, I don't understand.
GragAlbert (47:46.642)
I mean, I don't hate that it's as identi- I mean, maybe it could be another character, but I just- I think it's also worse though to like only have one character that has- like you know what I mean? Like if Wolves the only tank buster, I feel like it's weird that it's just like Ban Wolves and tanks run the game.
Coach Mills (47:49.024)
I do.
Coach Mills (47:59.214)
Now, you know who's also a tankbuster? Fucking Jean Grey? Like every Punisher, like every fucking character that can shoot a gun. they all are tankbuck- Bucky, like they can- I don't know. Maybe I'm just bitching. I don't know. Oh. Okay. Oh. Let's talk about Mr. Fent. Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about Mr. Fent, because these are some crazy buffs. So first is primary stretch punch.
GragAlbert (48:02.795)
That's true, that's true. You're right, you're Yeah.
No, that's a good point, that's good point. Preach, preach, preach, preach.
Captain Coach (48:12.187)
No, you're right. You're right. Preach. Preach, King. Preach.
Captain Coach (48:18.331)
This is therapy, man.
GragAlbert (48:19.474)
Tank therapy.
Coach Mills (48:28.078)
It's 70 damage instead of 65. Now he doesn't have the movement slow effect anymore when he bounces to people, but he gets it every six seconds. He gets a charge every six seconds instead of every eight seconds. And his ultimate costs 300 less. So, yeah.
GragAlbert (48:45.552)
very nice changes for him. He's gonna feel good. I love that, I think that movement speed reduction is like, it doesn't even matter because yes it can help on engaging and chasing down targets, but like sometimes you gotta use your hip thrust on an ally to shield them. this, just getting that reduced cooldown to have the, like currently it feels bad using it on an ally because you're like missing out on some of the value of the ability because you're not giving anybody a movement speed reduction. But now they're taking that away.
Coach Mills (49:07.886)
You're
Captain Coach (49:10.843)
That's a great point.
GragAlbert (49:12.314)
And they're making the ult- it just have a lower cooldown. You're gonna feel like more flexible with the ability, use it more often. I feel like it's gonna be huge. Yes. Yes.
Coach Mills (49:15.758)
Plus it charges up his big body mode too, like when he does it. So he's gonna have a lot more uptime, like just in general, he's just gonna be way more active.
Captain Coach (49:24.217)
Yeah, I think this character alone might just make brawl like the meta comp. I think
GragAlbert (49:24.422)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (49:30.731)
Yeah, he might be he might be really good like really really fucking good
GragAlbert (49:31.666)
Hahaha!
I imagine Dino, Hulk, and Mr. F all bubbled running at you.
Coach Mills (49:38.158)
Yeah, no, like you
Captain Coach (49:41.189)
I think this is a really great change too, because they kind of take away the unfun parts about playing against this hero, which is all just the random CC. I mean, I guess you're getting your back shots up more. But yeah, like Greg said, you're kind of encouraged more to use it on your teammates, which I think is kind of what it's really not the best way to play, Phant. I think the best way is you pressure backline and actually kind of dive on them, it seems like.
Coach Mills (50:02.84)
Yeah, a little bit, yeah. My fear here is we're like, so like, he's obviously gonna be way, better, but I feel like we're close to getting to that point where he feels almost un-interactable because like, let's say we made that cool down four seconds instead. There would never be a window to kill him, like ever, between his Dorito mode, big body ultimate, and then double, like getting a charge every.
GragAlbert (50:04.176)
Yeah, because he's just an unkillable dive character, dive tank character, sort of.
Captain Coach (50:07.706)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (50:30.836)
in out, in out, like he would literally be never killable and he's kinda close to that right now. And also his uptime's gonna be so much higher and his ultimate's cheaper. I feel like he's gonna build his ult like crazy fucking quick.
Captain Coach (50:40.859)
Yeah, well, and he gets his ult. Yeah, I mean, he does more damage. And that five damage adds up when you're cleaving people. He's going to get it so quick. You're to be able to ult off tempo, which is kind of why Hulk became really good, is because that buff to his shield just got to the point where you can get it when or right before support sometimes ults. If you're playing well, think Phant can actually have his own individual carry that isn't just him stalling forever. I think he'll actually be able to make his own plays and have them work. Because I think most Phants will just wait.
Coach Mills (50:45.867)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (50:46.929)
Yes.
Coach Mills (51:06.776)
Man, we should have had Galus on. We should have Galus to talk about this. I bet you he's over the moon with these changes. Yeah, that's actually interesting. Let's see if he's around, if he has something to say. He's probably sleeping because he's in.
Captain Coach (51:10.403)
Yo, let me hit them up. Maybe if we can get them on right now, I'll hit them up.
Captain Coach (51:19.214)
I just.
Coach Mills (51:23.468)
Wakey wakey. That'd be actually hilarious if he just pops up. no, this is like, like I like quackly. I'm like horrified of running into that guy in ranked now. Like he's this this change is going to be insane.
Captain Coach (51:25.647)
I just messaged him.
GragAlbert (51:27.634)
Hahaha!
Captain Coach (51:37.997)
Yeah. And we got a little flack for glazing over fans on the last podcast we did.
Coach Mills (51:45.89)
We do glaze over a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Captain Coach (51:47.515)
Yeah, some heroes don't get the right amount of love. What about console, man? So I actually know the rank one fan on console and, uh, man that like, got like top 20, I think on the character that was like before these changes. I mean.
GragAlbert (51:48.06)
Ha ha ha!
Coach Mills (52:01.416)
no, he's gonna be fucking Dan. This might make this character double. This is like almost, this is like one of the biggest buffs I've seen. Like, this is so huge. It's insane.
Captain Coach (52:04.229)
Do they even care about console balance?
Captain Coach (52:12.82)
Yeah, it's big. It's a good buff.
Coach Mills (52:26.11)
Dude, dude, dude. Give this fucking guy the Mantis damage boost, speed boost thing. Like make him run. Yeah, it's gonna be crazy. And the extra damage, like he might beat everyone to ult. Just fucking like, like yeah. There might be a strat cooking up in here, like an all in Brawl strat that's fucking disgusting.
Captain Coach (52:31.451)
Speed boost on him is gonna be crazy actually.
GragAlbert (52:34.575)
Yes, yes.
Captain Coach (52:39.961)
Yo, wait, you just maybe.
Captain Coach (52:46.593)
Yeah, you just made me think of one. We get Fantastic in Fridge, and then we give him Mantis Speed Boost, the new one, the 100 movement speed. We give him Jeff Bubble. We give him Storm Movement Speed. We give him Gambit Alt. And then we give him Mantis Alt. Did I miss any? Please, I need this.
Coach Mills (52:55.15)
Ooh, let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Wait, no, Cab. You, you, Cab, you need to pick up this ear, bro. Like, like you need to have this ear on your back.
GragAlbert (52:55.57)
Ha!
GragAlbert (53:05.01)
You'll be actually moving so fast
Captain Coach (53:08.284)
I have like 200 fan care. I used to play this. I love this hero.
GragAlbert (53:12.25)
He's the only- he's the only DPS I play by the way, only DPS I play. Yes, he's the only DPS I play.
Coach Mills (53:12.662)
Okay, well perfect, because I think he's actually going to be legit. really? No, he's going to be legit. He's going to be legit. He's going to be very legit. Y'all are legit the same person. I'm not going to lie. yeah. One of these days we'll just have Greg sit in for captain coach, but just not tell anybody. Like in the fight. Yeah. All right. So the next change is moon night.
Captain Coach (53:17.507)
I love fan. We play the same characters for a-
GragAlbert (53:20.043)
Yeah, we all... Parallel universe.
Captain Coach (53:29.787)
You grab mustache?
GragAlbert (53:29.982)
Yeah, yeah, I'll just I'll try to get the look down I'll get some glasses I'll get my hat on. you perfect
Captain Coach (53:37.359)
There you go.
Coach Mills (53:40.558)
His hook is now down from 15 seconds to 12 seconds. What do think?
Captain Coach (53:46.075)
I think two, three years down the road, we're all gonna be sitting playing Marvel rivals where Gambit alt gives you 10, 100 damage boosts, like 5,000 movement speed. And we're gonna think to ourselves, where did it all go wrong? How did the power creep get this bad? It's little micro changes like this that just happened over and over and over. 50 health a thing.
Coach Mills (53:55.774)
Hehehehehe
GragAlbert (54:03.634)
Hahaha
Coach Mills (54:03.963)
Eventually like if you want moon night to keep up he's gonna have like a two second grapple cool down
Captain Coach (54:12.395)
Yeah, he's just gonna be zipping across the map like a fucking like hornet or like it's not gonna be real
GragAlbert (54:17.702)
I know. I don't like these these kind of micro buffs if they're not needed, you know I think I think moon nights been fine like I think he has I think he can add value in very very like Specific conditions like more than anybody else like for example anytime they're running triple tank feel like moon nights insane And I don't know I just feel like his damage flood like when you have that moon night damage flood on the front line It's almost like a skill check for your team of like can they balance the damage flood while also multitasking to either flank or deal with other things and
Coach Mills (54:24.078)
Hmmmm
yeah yeah yeah yeah I agree.
Coach Mills (54:47.457)
Right.
Coach Mills (54:56.078)
I mean, I feel like if you're losing to Moon Knight though, like it's someone's fault, like big time. cause like think of all the best characters, Star-Lord, Psy, Daredevil, Black Cat, Venom, like are we really losing to Moon Knights? Like, I like, I got, are we really losing?
GragAlbert (55:01.925)
Maybe, yeah, yeah.
GragAlbert (55:06.758)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (55:12.315)
Well, yeah, exactly. This to me looks like a change directed more at probably the higher ranks. Cause I think most people below like Celestial banned this hero, right? Like he's a pretty popular band. So to me, I'm-
Coach Mills (55:23.064)
They actually ban quite a bit, which is kind of funny to me because they like he he's getting a buff and they like everyone like everyone's banning him in the lower ELO's but he's getting a buff. So I 100 % agree with you. It has to be for high ELO. It has to be.
GragAlbert (55:26.086)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (55:32.205)
Right. What?
Captain Coach (55:36.239)
Yeah, so.
GragAlbert (55:36.37)
Because people just walk main and kind of want to autopilot and they just lose
Captain Coach (55:39.073)
Yeah, I'm thinking like, okay, what's their overarching design philosophy? Like, what are their goals with the game? We've seen Buffs to Fantastic, a character that struggles in high ranks, Buffs to Moon Knight, you know, maybe Emma, right? But then you go to Phoenix, right? And then it's completely the opposite. It's completely the opposite. And that's, I wanted to segue into that because it makes no sense. Makes no sense.
Coach Mills (55:51.022)
Maybe they are thinking about higher elo. Okay. I mean, nerfs to tank pool. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, okay. Okay. Let me lay let me lay out the changes for Phoenix. Okay, so Okay. All right. All right. So her direct hit damage goes up to 55 from 50, but now the marks
GragAlbert (55:59.398)
Ha
GragAlbert (56:05.168)
I'm upset with the Phoenix change.
Captain Coach (56:11.043)
I'm gonna piss real quick.
Coach Mills (56:20.366)
the marks explosion does 35 damage instead of 40. So their justification for this is if someone has one mark and then you ult them with Phoenix ult, it's not gonna just straight up kill them. Cause it doesn't do enough. It doesn't do enough damage altogether to kill a 250 HP hero.
GragAlbert (56:36.688)
Yeah. And that's been a very long time bread and butter combo of Phoenix. Like you have your ult, you literally just dive bomb into bat into the back line. You hit one left click at anybody and then you just install your you have the eye frame that you kill them. And it's been a good, very good strong.
Coach Mills (56:49.986)
My big problem is like, how many fucking heroes even have 250 HP? Like how many heroes, I mean, it feels like there's like very few and the ones that do, they have a way to give themselves healing or damage reduction. so like I don't really, that justification feels kind of soft to me for just buffing her damage. Straight up.
GragAlbert (56:56.09)
Not that many anymore.
GragAlbert (57:02.908)
True.
GragAlbert (57:10.662)
And also like it says that you can't one shot but like the damage you get from marking them in the first place from the on hit damage being popped. Won't that put them in the kill range still anyway?
Captain Coach (57:13.402)
Yo.
Captain Coach (57:20.985)
Yo, Gallus just hit me up. I think he's down to come on and talk about the fan changes.
Coach Mills (57:24.108)
Let's get them on. Let's forget. You have the, you can send them that same link. You can send them that same link.
GragAlbert (57:25.286)
Yeah, here's to something.
Captain Coach (57:27.171)
Yeah, we're doing a live podcast, Gallus. We wanted to get your thoughts on the fantastic changes, and you're welcome to hang out if you're around. You are welcome. We just got done fantastic. He's in chat right now.
Coach Mills (57:32.686)
Come on bro, let's go. like how he responds. said wakey wakey, he said hello.
Captain Coach (57:44.058)
Ha
Let's do it! Let's go! So, when Greg was on the first time, he came late and now Galas is doing it when Greg is on. This crazy.
Coach Mills (57:48.536)
Let's go surprise surprise surprise edition.
GragAlbert (57:48.592)
Let's go!
Coach Mills (57:56.768)
Let's go. Hey, we're just getting started. We're just hitting the good stuff. The stuff we're about to bitch about. It's just getting started right now.
GragAlbert (57:57.67)
Perfect.
Captain Coach (58:00.663)
Yeah, we're about... We're getting there. I had to ramp up my rage properly.
GragAlbert (58:02.364)
Ha ha ha!
Coach Mills (58:08.61)
Like for those of you who have been listening on a second monitor, the pod starts now. That was just the preamble. That's just the intro, okay? We're actually starting. yeah. Gene fucking Gray. Let me hold off what I'm gonna say, because I'm sure Galas would have quite a bit to say.
Captain Coach (58:15.523)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (58:29.145)
Wait, we had Galas as a guest before,
Coach Mills (58:31.406)
We did, we did. It was a long time ago, but we did have him on. It was cool too. He was, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew I wanted him because he's the, he's, we had Rao the Twitter rage baiter and Gallus is the TikTok rage baiter. You know, like everyone, everyone is a master of their craft on each, on each platform.
Captain Coach (58:35.331)
Yeah, yeah, he was one of our first guests, I think.
Captain Coach (58:48.123)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (58:50.876)
Ha ha!
Captain Coach (58:56.283)
That's funny.
Coach Mills (58:56.299)
And Captain Coach is a ranked rage baiter.
Captain Coach (58:59.131)
I'm like Batman. I go after the villains. the Batman of rivals. If you got beef with me, congratulations. You're a bad person. Congratulations. I'm in character. I'm in character. Playing a character.
Coach Mills (59:03.985)
yeah! Right!
GragAlbert (59:04.112)
Yes, yes.
Coach Mills (59:12.494)
yeah, is that it? That's crazy.
GragAlbert (59:16.002)
It's funny you say that because I've said the same thing before I've literally said that exact word for word
Coach Mills (59:23.726)
Yeah, yo, yo. By the way, we're gonna use this moment, this intermission to say, smash that like and subscribe. We're trying to get to 10K subs and we would really appreciate y'all smashing that subscribe. Also check out Greg Albert on TikTok, on Twitch, on OnlyFans. And yeah, yeah. And then some of this dead air I can trim out. So, you know, you know how it is. But yeah, man.
Captain Coach (59:40.741)
Crazy.
GragAlbert (59:49.659)
Yeah, we chillin'.
Captain Coach (59:52.251)
We wait for gals. It's worth it. It's worth it.
Coach Mills (59:55.106)
Yeah, I agree.
Captain Coach (01:00:00.237)
I actually came in clutch surprised.
GragAlbert (01:00:01.042)
I'm gonna grab some more water real quick.
Coach Mills (01:00:03.628)
I will flark and fight you on support on the pod. Okay. All right. Fuck it. Bringing death into he wants to fight about support. No, it's okay. We have we could we could we've never done it, but I want to do it where we have like more than four. God.
Captain Coach (01:00:15.641)
Bring him in. Bring him in.
Are we gonna fit? Chicka chicka boom boom.
Coach Mills (01:00:25.322)
Okay, let's start. Fuck it. I mean, I'm actually down. You want me to? Do you want me to?
Captain Coach (01:00:30.479)
Beth is a homie, Two and a first duel appearance, repeat guest type. This is going to be a long episode, though. We got a lot of audience. We got a lot of talkers in here now.
Coach Mills (01:00:38.924)
That's actually hilarious.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We got rid of the bullshit. We got rid of the bullshit. By that I mean we talked about the tank and the changes that don't matter. We just need their tanks for the, you know. What comes next? There's Galis, yo! Let's go!
Captain Coach (01:00:49.509)
Yeah
Captain Coach (01:01:02.267)
Yeah,
GALLUS (01:01:06.438)
Hey, hey, hello, hello.
GragAlbert (01:01:08.538)
There he is.
Coach Mills (01:01:08.959)
Welcome in, welcome in, surprise guest, Gallus out of nowhere. were on the, we just went over the Mr. Fent change and we're like, we needed Gallus. Like where the hell is Gallus?
Captain Coach (01:01:12.123)
Got the crazy gallus pull here.
GALLUS (01:01:15.598)
Hey
GALLUS (01:01:22.778)
yeah, straight up. Yeah, I was gonna ask you to catch me up. I was outside like having a really late breakfast and I never get my Discord notifications. They just like don't come through and this time they just did. It was like when I come on the pod, I'm like, yes.
Coach Mills (01:01:29.952)
yes!
Coach Mills (01:01:34.621)
Oh, hey, there it is. There it is. I was like, you might be asleep because I know you don't live in America. So I was like, oh, you might be asleep. But I'm going to add them anyways. Let's do it.
Captain Coach (01:01:34.651)
Ha
GragAlbert (01:01:36.868)
I'm
Captain Coach (01:01:38.906)
love it.
GALLUS (01:01:45.744)
No, it's actually midday. just got up late because I was streaming last night.
Coach Mills (01:01:48.922)
no. perfect. Perfect. All right. So we have another we actually might have a fifth person randomly joining, but for now we'll just keep we'll just keep trucking on. Let's let's go back to Mr. Fence. So our general kind of summary of the Mr. Fence changes is that we thought it was actually really good. It makes this character like quite a bit better. What do you think? What's your what's your opinion on the the Mr. Fence change?
GALLUS (01:02:11.938)
I was overall pretty good. Yeah. I think in terms of like what they're trying to do with him, this is probably the most straightforward way to do it in just making it more viable. My concerns with this hero are always that low ranks kind of think he's OP and he kind of just runs it down in big mode. I didn't like when they removed the bonus health from him because that actually just makes him
better in some scenarios at running down main and just getting heal slop. any just like flat numbers buffs will keep compounding that issue. So I've always wanted stuff that helps him at the skill ceiling. In terms of stuff that they've actually done though, I don't know how much his little forms damage is going to affect him in low ranks, really. The big one is probably actually the backshot cooldown. That is crazy to say.
Coach Mills (01:03:06.316)
Yeah, right.
Captain Coach (01:03:06.491)
Hahaha
GALLUS (01:03:06.886)
but like that's his entire, like his cycle of being active in a fight. Like all of it is in his elasticity and that cooldown and maybe his like fridge mode block form. And that's probably going to be the big like maybe wild card because I think with two seconds off the two charge cooldown with that will be like, I don't know if that's like sleeper super, super good.
Coach Mills (01:03:33.344)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:03:33.708)
but like, look, man, overall, my vibe on it is pretty good because his alt is terrible. I feel like his alt is something that you don't use in the alt fight. So it's basically like, it's. Yeah. Like it's a, it's a big cool down. with the, with the alt charge nerfs last season, it's like, you need it to be cheaper or like you genuinely never use it.
Coach Mills (01:03:43.276)
Right, right, had to go before or like after or you know, right.
Do you think you'll?
Coach Mills (01:03:55.032)
Do you think he'll get his old before supports with all these changes? Cause he can go like, like backshot, backshot, big body mode, like really get in there or does he need still like a little bit of help or yeah, he's going to get it. We were talking about like giving him the Mantis speed boost damage boost and just like letting him go fucking ham in a back line, you know, like.
GALLUS (01:04:03.31)
I like to be honest, yeah, I think you outcycle support alts.
GALLUS (01:04:14.994)
Dude, dude, yes, dude, I saw that. It's actually fucked. Yeah, speed boost would be really good on him. Isn't base move speed like 600 or something? The number...
GragAlbert (01:04:15.974)
Mantis has a single target Gavidult now.
Coach Mills (01:04:18.492)
Yeah, like that's-
Coach Mills (01:04:27.138)
Yeah, no, it gives a 12%, 12 % speed boost, which is a lot. That's a lot.
GALLUS (01:04:30.832)
Yeah, that's really good for him. I feel like it's gonna turn from like Mantis you want with like Widow or something like that into Mantis you want with like Rogue or Mr. F. Like...
Captain Coach (01:04:40.345)
Yeah, well that's why we
Coach Mills (01:04:40.437)
yeah.
GragAlbert (01:04:42.159)
Mantis and Brawl is gonna be huge, but the movement speed and the fact that she does do percent max HP healing could be insane.
GALLUS (01:04:49.201)
Yeah, yeah.
Captain Coach (01:04:49.231)
The movement speed in particular, feel like was why we thought of fence in particular. You said the changes were like good-ish. What would you have done that they maybe didn't do? Did you have any other ideas for what you would like to see for the hero?
GragAlbert (01:04:51.782)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:05:00.752)
think genuinely like the number one thing I would look, I was looking for when I like looked at the patch notes the first time is I want them to give, like I want them to revert changing his like big transform from base health. I want it back to bonus health because like that was where you start bleeding some, you know, some of your flexibility into like higher rank play. Like, because when it's just base stats, you just get counted.
that extra second of bonus health to cleave in your little form was genuinely like a significant amount of value you could get. And that not being there kind of sucks. But like, now that you have more survivability and uptime with the cooldown change and the damage, it's like your pressure is more meaningful when you're cleaving two supports and stuff like that. So I think for kind of what I want, you still have that there. Like your little form is better.
I would have made his right click, you know when you grab two people? That needs to do something more man. Like, I think when it grabs-
Captain Coach (01:06:00.827)
Mmm.
Coach Mills (01:06:01.262)
I mean, yeah, that's like a nonsense cool down, feels like. doesn't feel like it.
Captain Coach (01:06:04.827)
It's annoying. It doesn't really.
GragAlbert (01:06:05.744)
Most people use it to like just right click the floor and get charged.
GALLUS (01:06:09.368)
Exactly, like that's that's 90 % of the time why you use it and it's a low cooldown as well It's like it's your button you press to get your transform sooner Because it grounds people Like you use it on pretty much just venom like you just use it on venom when he wants to go out That's when you use it It's not on cap because half the time he's moving too quick for the second hand to grab him or whatever It's like pretty much just venom I would make it so that it does more damage when you grab two people and pull them together
Coach Mills (01:06:18.712)
Yeah, they could definitely make that something good, like something real, right?
GragAlbert (01:06:23.622)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:06:29.294)
Hear me out
GALLUS (01:06:37.83)
because half the time it's hard to connect, blah blah blah. Like little stuff like that and plus five damage on the left click.
Coach Mills (01:06:40.462)
What if they, what if they turn that ability into like, what if they turn that ability into something like more utility based? Cause it doesn't really even seem like he needs it to be part of his cycle. Like, like something, you know, I can pull my teammate to me. I don't know. I don't know. It's something like just some type of utility.
GALLUS (01:06:52.24)
Like yeah, yeah, I agree with you.
GragAlbert (01:06:55.43)
Or give him a, what if he got a little like a stretchy arm swing type shit on his right click? Like people are using the right click on terrain most of the time already. Might as well make it like.
Coach Mills (01:06:59.502)
I'm like a little bit of a Billy God I bit I
GALLUS (01:07:00.604)
Wait, wait.
Captain Coach (01:07:04.494)
How about he wraps his arm around their neck and silences them?
GALLUS (01:07:05.5)
True?
Coach Mills (01:07:09.799)
yeah, yeah.
Captain Coach (01:07:11.867)
So I
Coach Mills (01:07:15.928)
grabs on and people can use like bounce off of it. don't know. This is a lot of cool. Cause sometimes when there's a character that functions with a cool down that's useless, you just kind of want that cool down to be any, it could be anything. It could literally be anything and it would be better, you know, like,
GragAlbert (01:07:15.986)
Freudian slip, Freudian slip.
GALLUS (01:07:27.846)
Yeah. Yeah, it's like, look man, I feel like the, and the like elastic fantasy of this hero is kind of like, it's not like all the way there. And I thought they do some like wacky shit with team ups to give him like, I want them to bring Ghost Rider in and I want him to turn into a massive wheel for a team up and just roll around. Like that's what I want. But like, if you were doing shit like changing the right click, you know, you can grab someone and hold them.
Captain Coach (01:07:46.299)
Dude
Coach Mills (01:07:46.456)
Let's go. Let's go.
GragAlbert (01:07:46.482)
Ooh, that's sick. I like that idea a lot.
GALLUS (01:07:56.294)
And what that does is it slows them down and it speeds you up a little bit. I want to be able to do that to a teammate and instead you take some of the damage that they take when your hand is around them because you're like physically protecting them or something. don't know, something, something like that. Cause I like the utility part of the hero. think that's a lot of what makes him unique. So yeah.
Coach Mills (01:08:09.167)
Okay.
GragAlbert (01:08:09.734)
I like that, I like that.
Captain Coach (01:08:15.609)
What if I could wear him as a skin and pretend to be another hero in the game, like the spy from TF2 a little bit? that work? I don't know, just crazy idea. What's one tip you'd give to fantastic players? Cause we got a little flack for not spending enough time on our blast pods or we're getting at all the fantastic tips and tricks. Like what's the best tip you could give to someone in like the mid to higher ranks trying to like get to the next level, get to those upper echelon.
Coach Mills (01:08:18.562)
Yeah... Like...
Coach Mills (01:08:34.862)
squeezing it.
Coach Mills (01:08:38.894)
Yeah, wait, yeah, speaking of which guys, you should collab with me on a vent guide for my channel. That'd be sick. That sounds like a 50k banger right there. Let's get it.
GALLUS (01:08:46.034)
True, true, yeah, let's do it.
My easy like tip before they made it so that it was base health instead of bonus health when you transformed to big form was like, just cancel your big form. Just cancel it more often. You like almost never need to use it. It just makes you bigger and you take more damage and then you can't stay in. After this patch, I might be saying the same thing again because you're-
Coach Mills (01:09:09.068)
Yeah Shows what I know I didn't even know you could fucking cancel big but I haven't I haven't played this character at all like like legit. That's crazy. Yeah No
GALLUS (01:09:12.498)
Yeah bro, just get out of it. Like half the time you die bro, just don't use it. Not all time, but like... But after this bro, your big form damage is 80 per hit. Your little form is 70 per hit. And you have like half the effective range. You attack a bit faster, so it's a little bit better for securing a KO on one target. But with this, when it's 70 and you have a cheaper ult, I'm pretty sure the best thing to do again is to get in a position where you can see...
Coach Mills (01:09:26.028)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:09:40.774)
Hopefully in a brawl, like three or four targets and you just cleave them the whole time. If you transform, I don't care, cancel it and just keep doing that and get your ult really quickly and just spam that. Make them look at you because you're actually getting value, not look at you because you're easy to kill. And I think that's more in his kit now. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:09:45.104)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:09:49.22)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:09:57.339)
It does seem like you want to do that more now with the damage and the all charge. That's a good tip. Good tip.
GragAlbert (01:09:59.623)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:10:02.286)
That's sick, that's sick. All right, all right. Well, Mr. Fent, you heard it here first, S tier, the best DPS in the game. And speaking of which, the worst DPS in the game now is Phoenix. So we're gonna talk about that. I know we just got done talking about the best, but okay. So I'm gonna rehash this a little bit, cause now Galus is here. So now Phoenix does five more direct hit damage. They're buffing her damage, but don't worry, don't worry guys.
GragAlbert (01:10:02.63)
Very good.
GALLUS (01:10:09.759)
He's not X tier bro
Captain Coach (01:10:15.163)
You
GragAlbert (01:10:23.666)
I hate Phoenix.
Coach Mills (01:10:31.128)
There's a compensation there, five less damage when the sparks detonate. And the justification for this is now 250 HP hero. You give them a mark. They can't die with her ult. yeah, Gauss, you've joined us for the first time, this pod. So what's your opinion on this? How do you feel?
GALLUS (01:10:49.778)
I'm gonna have a heart attack about this hero bro. I've been waiting like she's been on my list of shi- like until I see changes to this hero man I'm so like checked out. But they can't just nerf her. Like, revert what they did to the HP to the ult ages ago. That's what I want to see. This is a nerf to the ult which is good. Great. Okay. Direct hit damage scales with crits. Like she's more threatening to single targets in neutral. Like
GragAlbert (01:10:51.986)
You
Coach Mills (01:11:00.567)
You
Coach Mills (01:11:18.427)
Yeah, yeah, just straight up.
GragAlbert (01:11:19.206)
I don't know why they needed to, in their own words, in their own words, they wanted to make her far more threatening in baseline camp combat. How is that? She already is so threatening at all times.
GALLUS (01:11:19.444)
Her left click just does more damage to a single target.
Coach Mills (01:11:27.618)
What do we, like, my thing, what I brought up to Greg Gallis is like, yes, she can't one shot someone with a body shot and her ult, but like how many heroes are actually 250 HP in the first place? It feels like a very low number. And all of them that are have some way to heal themselves, some movement ability, some sustain, like, why are we buffing Phoenix? Like, straight up, why the fuck are we buffing Phoenix? I don't understand.
GALLUS (01:11:41.202)
That's a great point. Yep.
GALLUS (01:11:52.465)
at.
GragAlbert (01:11:53.394)
You
GALLUS (01:11:55.038)
I don't know man, and it's like, look man, it's a tiny adjustment I guess in the grand scheme of comparing her to Hella, but don't make her more like Hella. She's already one of your favorites, right? Like have them be distinct from each other. I don't know man, like I don't see why you can't just nerf the hero. Like, yeah, not many people are 250 HP, the alt you don't interact with. Sorry what?
Coach Mills (01:12:16.398)
What do you what do you think what do you think captain coach I know you've been wanting
Captain Coach (01:12:18.843)
and to see you guys.
Captain Coach (01:12:22.885)
Guys, she's a weak hero. Her win rate's only 46%, obviously. Don't you guys look at stats? Don't you look at data? Like, she's terrible. So why is her win rate so low? I think those things factor in, yeah, people can't aim.
Coach Mills (01:12:26.144)
dude, so this is the talking point I've been hearing on fucking Twitter, right? So whatever the fuck it's going like
she does a win.
Coach Mills (01:12:39.736)
People can't fucking aim. Is this like win rates like in Celestial Plus or is this just like win rates generally?
Captain Coach (01:12:45.863)
I think this is a hero with her alt that benefits from coordination, which I think a lot of things will just go off and do their own thing and then just alt to save themselves and then nothing will happen. There's a lot of reasons.
Coach Mills (01:12:54.502)
Like it, if you're gonna nerf this, or if you're gonna buff this character, cause she's doing bad in low elo, it doesn't, it's not consistent with the rest of the patch, which we just talked about is all aimed at high elo. Tank pool, moon night, like a lot of these buffs and changes are aimed at high elo, so why are we buffing Phoenix? And even if you're gonna try to buff Phoenix for lower elo, you could do it in a completely different way. Like increase her body shot damage, decrease her headshot damage, or you know, like there's a million ways you could do it that is not.
Captain Coach (01:13:05.531)
Exactly.
Coach Mills (01:13:24.91)
just straight up buffing her in general.
GALLUS (01:13:26.214)
Yep, you can argue that her AOE passive actually just makes her more unique and making it more direct hits is like kind of against what she's about. Bro, think I want to break- this is 100 % on Light's bingo card. Like this is-
Captain Coach (01:13:34.917)
Yeah, I feel like you're
Captain Coach (01:13:39.483)
But I saw that. That shit was so funny.
Coach Mills (01:13:39.566)
I probably wanted to bring on like, because I knew he'd fucking crash out about this change is actually hilarious. yeah, it's just unreal.
GALLUS (01:13:49.456)
You were going to say something Captain Kush.
Captain Coach (01:13:51.925)
yeah, I think you're gonna play her more like Helen now, probably off angle more and she'll probably be just as good. Like she's just gonna be doing different, like when a character is as versatile and as strong as this, if you reallocate her power, she's just gonna go do the thing she's best at and it's nothing's gonna change. Like this is not gonna do anything. If anything, yeah, like she's stronger now and I just don't, yeah, it's not.
GragAlbert (01:14:13.168)
I've been banning her for forever and I'm gonna continue banning her so I won't really see this change in my games.
Captain Coach (01:14:17.922)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:14:19.584)
Yeah. Yeah. But maybe we, I saw that tweet that you put out coach about, remove double bands. Like maybe we can get that sometime soon. How do you feel about, how do you feel about double beds guys? I'm curious. Do you think that that's too much having six unique bands every single game or do you think that that's actually what we need?
Captain Coach (01:14:21.007)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:14:22.098)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:14:31.387)
That'd be nice.
GragAlbert (01:14:32.209)
Yes.
GALLUS (01:14:41.122)
I think it's probably fine at this point with just how many heroes are getting released. If it's just some system that ensures that a second most picked hero goes through, if there's a double ban or something, or both teams just get the ban again quickly, whatever it is, I'm all for it. I don't think anyone's against getting rid of double bans, to be honest, except for the minutiae of...
doesn't take too much time to finish bands, but that's it. Like you just solve that problem. I think everyone's for it, to be honest.
Coach Mills (01:15:08.238)
It's like, yes, whatever. Whatever. Yeah. You could just do rank choice voting with bands. One, two, three, you know, like super simple. A little. Yeah, it's very simple.
GALLUS (01:15:15.942)
Yeah, I hear a lot of good things about it for like Overwatch in terms of just getting the banding experience through like the selection phase or whatever. So like, yeah, I think the priority stuff probably works well from what I know. Yeah.
GragAlbert (01:15:25.916)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (01:15:30.3)
The Overwatch ban system is better and faster by the way too. It's like, and they get to vote on maps too. I don't even play over on it.
Coach Mills (01:15:34.046)
yeah. The only thing I... The only argument I have about our rank system is that you can kind of... Kind of tell what the opponents are playing depending on what they ban early and you can't do that in Overwatch. You just have to lock them in. That's the only benefit. I don't hate the timely way. I know some people are like, we need to get in games fast, fast, fast. I don't hate it. I really don't hate it. It's not like I feel like it's a crazy long period of time. They could always trim time off of like the...
GragAlbert (01:15:45.02)
That's true. That's true. Yeah, you lose out on the little interaction.
Coach Mills (01:16:02.444)
The pre-lobby, what is it, like 45 seconds or whatever when you're in the game but the game hasn't started yet? I don't know. I feel like they could trim out some seconds.
GALLUS (01:16:08.632)
Yeah, true. I think that I saw it with Overwatch when I was still playing that game. It's like if they want to make the starting phase quicker, they actually have to move the spawns and change the spawn rooms, which takes work. So they probably won't do it. But but yeah, like I think I think Six Bands probably is fine at this point. There's I think if there's anyone, there will be a section of the support community that has a problem with it. But I think they just keep releasing supports, man. We're almost there.
GragAlbert (01:16:21.414)
That's a point.
Coach Mills (01:16:27.489)
expense.
GALLUS (01:16:37.094)
I think there's a lot of heroes in the game by now, so.
Coach Mills (01:16:37.71)
Yeah, makes sense. Okay, so fuck Phoenix, why do they keep buffing this character? Let's move on to Spidey. Spidey, okay, so this is what they did with Spidey. So basically they are making his ultimate a bit better. So the spell field damage of his ultimate is gonna do 15 instead of 13.6. So it's a total damage over 2.4 second duration increased from 408 to 450. What do y'all feel about the buff to Spider-Man's ult?
GALLUS (01:16:45.724)
Bro.
Coach Mills (01:17:06.958)
Greg, let's start with you. How do you feel about this buff?
GragAlbert (01:17:09.874)
I think Spidey... so I don't know, don't know lot of people are very divided on when it comes to Spider-Man. I think he's a very great hero and has insane value potential, maybe highest in the entire game. But at the same time, I do think it's hard to access that value and I kind of like having a character like Spider-Man, know, just thematically. It's fucking Spider-Man. Like him being a character that in most people's hands is terrible, but in the best hands, he's like one of the best characters in the game. I think that's a good design for a character like Spider-Man and I think it's good for the game.
And when it comes to this ult, I think this is good change because his ult is the weakest part of his kit in my opinion. the amount of times you exile Spider-Man out of his ult, frozen, slept, and he's just sitting there so easy to hit, I think his ult has definitely been lacking. With that being said, taking that into account with the fact that Spider-Man has such crazy value potential, if we want this patch to be high elo focus, maybe it's not the best, I don't know, but.
Coach Mills (01:18:04.408)
So I know we've mostly been agreeing this pod. I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to hard disagree. I think Spider-Man's ultimate is insanely powerful. It's like one of the best DPS ultimates in the entire game. I think Spider-Man ultimate is. I understand the idea that it can, it can like, it can be stopped. It can be hooked. It can be pushed, whatever, right? But it's the only ultimate that you can operate on under extremely low resources and win a fight with. Like 20 HP, there's three supports.
GragAlbert (01:18:10.298)
Okay, okay.
Really?
Damn. Okay, okay.
GragAlbert (01:18:24.039)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (01:18:29.51)
That's true.
Coach Mills (01:18:33.87)
Like you set the conditions for the ult and you just killed them all. And the reason that I feel like the ult's so strong is like when I was climbing on Spider-Man and doing the Spider-Man challenges, I felt like there was a lot of games that just felt like I'm just trying to cycle as many engagements as possible so that I can ult. Because I know I'm going to get value with ult, like 100%. I'm going to get value with ult. Now you see clips of like Spider-Mans like dashing in 1v5. They have all their cooldowns. They press Q and they die. And they're like, wow, this ult sucks.
GragAlbert (01:18:50.578)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (01:19:01.006)
It's like, yeah, they have totems, have cloakbowl, they have bucky hook. Like, yeah, it's gonna suck. Like what ultimate is not gonna suck in that situation? Like maybe like four ults don't suck. I'm not saying that this buff is too big or anything. I don't really think it's gonna matter, but I wanna push back and say that I think Spider-Man is actually one of the most powerful ults in the DPS roster just cause it's versatility. That's my opinion on it.
GragAlbert (01:19:06.491)
Any shield?
Captain Coach (01:19:14.075)
This.
Captain Coach (01:19:24.763)
I disagree with that, Mills. I think this is a buff that Spider-Man doesn't really need in the higher ranks, but is not going to necessarily make him too much better. Whereas I think in the lower ranks, it's probably gonna help him out a lot. So this would be an example of a change that even though I don't necessarily think he needs, I think is probably a good one because you...
GragAlbert (01:19:24.988)
Maybe. I don't know.
Captain Coach (01:19:51.161)
just for the health of the game, Spider-Man's such a popular character, making him a little more user, like easier baseline, I think will in the longterm actually make it a little easier to balance him. Even though I don't really think he needs it, like I said, I do think this, like I see the vision behind it. This is a change, cause like in higher ranks, a lot of times this will get interrupted, it'll get pushed. It's very unreliable compared to other alts, which is why I just don't agree that it's one of the best alts, but you know, maybe Spider-Man's are just trash, you know, like, don't know. Maybe.
Coach Mills (01:20:20.024)
mean you just fly, I mean you literally just like get to fly at someone mock speed and all on their head like and it kills them in like a millisecond. shit.
GragAlbert (01:20:25.754)
Yeah, but if I'm Dr. Strange, I just hold my right click and he pretty much gets no value. Whereas if Punisher is ulting in front of me, there's nothing I can do in a lot of situations. Or Elsa, or Phoenix, you know, or a lot of those.
Coach Mills (01:20:34.414)
Yeah, but Punisher can't pop his ultimate anywhere. Like he can't get to anywhere. Like I do agree that this ultimate would not be great on a random character. Like I do agree with that. But.
GragAlbert (01:20:40.102)
That's true, that's It's the mobility combined with it. Yeah.
GALLUS (01:20:48.848)
Yeah, that's kind of what I was going to say about it is like compared to so many heroes, you kind of have freedom of placement with Spider-Man's ult. It's like, yes, you get counted. Yes, you get CC'd or whatever, but this hero is so mobile. It's like it scales with timing and your awareness and your game sense. And you can just put it where you want, man. Yes, good players will hold cooldowns, et cetera, et cetera. But you know, we can also say that I don't think increasing the damage does anything for that. So.
Coach Mills (01:21:06.328)
Bye guys.
Coach Mills (01:21:09.933)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:21:17.894)
Yeah, I think it's scarier in low ranks, man. I've seen a lot of people, I had people in my chat last night when I was looking at the patch say this patch kind of fucks low ranks a bit, like...
Coach Mills (01:21:22.136)
Cuz yeah
Coach Mills (01:21:26.318)
This feels like you can like, like people are going to be able to kill through like cloak bubble probably like most likely out especially like that's probably what this really does. I mean, you could still do it before if you like actually just comboed first, know, like trace into bread and butter into all like it was fine. Like, yeah, I think it's, I think it's a fine. Like I said, I think it's like, it's, it's fine, but I really don't. I think that
GragAlbert (01:21:27.538)
Yeah, that's what we were talking about before too.
Coach Mills (01:21:54.168)
people really talk terribly about Spider-Man all like it's like this worse, this like completely awful. I think Spider-Man was better than a lot of Transform-Olt's. Cause like magical can get shut down in the same way. Spider-Man has like a very small window of time to interrupt versus like a magical has like lots of windows of interaction for you get a three, you get a three K with magical and that's a good magical. Like there's a lot of Spider-Man Ols that are three case like a lot of them. Like.
GALLUS (01:22:11.484)
Yeah, yeah, and-
GALLUS (01:22:19.186)
Yeah, I think, I think probably like important part of honestly why people think it's so bad is that I think he probably has one of the worst like player experiences in alting, especially when you're learning him because he like is a sitting duck in his alt, even though it's a quick one, but it's like, like it's going to be it, man. I think Spider-Man also like when you're learning the hero, he, he doesn't have the incentive of playing around everyone else as much.
Captain Coach (01:22:30.262)
Ha ha ha ha.
Well just don't go in 1v6!
Coach Mills (01:22:34.998)
Yeah, that's it.
GragAlbert (01:22:35.142)
Hahaha!
Death And Gaming (01:22:36.256)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:22:48.54)
when you're like picking up the hero for the first time. It's like, you will make the, like everyone makes the joke about like Spidey going in and he dies 15 times and you, or even like if you're trying to play him right, maybe you're trying to do as many engages as possible, like, and just rinse and repeat, even if you die, cause you come back from spawn so fast. And I think that can prevent players from actually learning better game sense in general, including when and where to alt.
Coach Mills (01:22:57.356)
All right.
Coach Mills (01:23:12.054)
you're saying Spider-Man mains are stunted like like growth there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay Welcome death in gaming to the pod. Let's go. Whoo. We got a second special guest surprise guest Yeah, yeah exactly. Yeah
GALLUS (01:23:15.087)
No. man. Hey, bro.
Captain Coach (01:23:15.195)
hey, Dad!
Death And Gaming (01:23:17.546)
I am.
GragAlbert (01:23:22.194)
Ayyyy
Death And Gaming (01:23:22.909)
Bye.
Captain Coach (01:23:28.399)
He just came out of
Death And Gaming (01:23:31.598)
I'm here to balance out the lack of support players in the podcast, so I've come in. Come in, Clutch.
GragAlbert (01:23:31.634)
Hahaha
Coach Mills (01:23:36.238)
Oh, yeah, let's go. Well, GALAS is like his second most played is Adam, right? So you're not a support player. That's not a support. That's not what I'm just going to say. I'm just kidding. But no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
GragAlbert (01:23:36.786)
There you go, there you go.
GALLUS (01:23:41.722)
It is, yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:23:41.732)
I think so, yeah.
GALLUS (01:23:45.008)
No, that's not a support bro. That's a selfish pick. Like I pick him because I'm not getting healed and I want to do whatever I want.
GragAlbert (01:23:49.403)
You
Death And Gaming (01:23:53.056)
Yeah
GragAlbert (01:23:54.503)
You
GALLUS (01:24:00.933)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:24:02.786)
But yeah, okay, okay. So Spider-Man, let's move on. Let's talk about Squirrel Girl, everyone's favorite character. don't wanna throw this to death. I know you're kinda coming in. We'll give you a chance to talk about some changes you wanna talk about at the end and just throw in your takes. But for Squirrel Girl specifically, yeah, the Mammal Baud, 15 seconds to 12 seconds. That's the reset of cooldowns, correct? Where I believe that that is.
Death And Gaming (01:24:26.99)
Yeah, yeah, that's her E, I believe so.
Coach Mills (01:24:29.324)
Yeah, so how do you feel? Any thoughts?
Death And Gaming (01:24:31.982)
Squirrel Girl is one of those, I think, like interesting ones where when they first said they're like, they're buffing a bunch of DPS, I was expecting a lot of really horrifying things, but it was, they're all kind of like pretty mild. Like Squirrel Girl and Moon Knight were both ones where was like, that seems fine. Like they're not terribly like super oppressive heroes. So maybe they did need something.
Coach Mills (01:24:49.9)
I remember the scre- the screenshot of like all the characters that are being buffed and people were like what the fuck? Spider-Man buff, Moon Knight buff, Squirrel Girl buff, it's like what the fuck is going on here?
Death And Gaming (01:24:55.447)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:24:59.662)
And it just sort of was just like, yeah, these characters are getting buffed and then moved on. And I'm just like, no, no. Like, wait, wait. You can't just drop that and then not say what you're doing. no, I mean, this is going to like, it's going to be more fun for Skrull Girl players. They get to use their abilities more often. But it's not really going to, I think, like change much of where she's played. Like, I think in lower ELOs, she's still going to be a demon for a lot of people. But you you're not going to see her much in the high ELOs.
Coach Mills (01:25:25.71)
Fair enough.
Death And Gaming (01:25:25.986)
I think this is the kind of thing that just needed to happen in order to keep up with the Elsas and the Black Cats and stuff in the game, which have 10 billion buttons.
GALLUS (01:25:32.978)
I'm of the opinion that this is like to keep up with Devil Dino, like actually. I haven't heard if you guys talked about him yet, like this is such a, like I have a fear about that hero just doing whatever he wants. So like low ranks are gonna need that.
Coach Mills (01:25:37.223)
yeah, jeez!
Death And Gaming (01:25:37.741)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:25:38.507)
Bro
Coach Mills (01:25:47.712)
I can't wait to play him. I can't wait to grind him. just the girl, the counter.
Captain Coach (01:25:51.385)
GALAS, I said he was like the tank's response to all the power creep, like the stat check of him, right? Like he's just a big ball of health, easy to hit, but just, it looks like he does a ton of damage, just like, just random damage too. He's a stat check character.
Coach Mills (01:26:06.04)
Man, man, think of the- I know we've been fl- I'm going back, death is here, so now I can flame supports again. I can't wait for the support that's crying that there's a devil dino on top of them and no one's shooting at him. Fucking peel! I can't kill this bitch! He has 1600 HP! Get him off me! And the dino is just chilling in the back line while the Spider-Man is off the fuck nowhere and the Black Cat is in their back line and the dino is just like a-
Captain Coach (01:26:20.023)
Haha
Death And Gaming (01:26:24.879)
the
GALLUS (01:26:25.264)
you
Coach Mills (01:26:34.126)
Like a luna players trying to kill this fucking dino and he's like not dying. I can't wait
Captain Coach (01:26:38.619)
I can't wait
Death And Gaming (01:26:39.96)
Here's it.
GALLUS (01:26:40.382)
I kind of just want to do it like a stream just clip farming just playing support because I know I'm gonna get good shit with this enormous T-rex the size of a fucking bus Just like running it down at me like if I'm like rocket actually actually maybe not rocket because I feel like they buff rocket because of him Like maybe like he's gonna be Dino is gonna be his maybe his best target in the game, and he just got a left-click buff
Captain Coach (01:26:48.624)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (01:26:52.368)
Rivals just turned into a horror game. That's your caption.
Coach Mills (01:26:52.846)
I wonder if Rocket might be able to fuck up a dino, right? Like Death? You think? Because I know you play...
Captain Coach (01:26:55.896)
I,
Death And Gaming (01:27:00.054)
I eat.
GragAlbert (01:27:01.394)
Your buffing is damage.
Coach Mills (01:27:05.025)
Cause Dino probably can't hit him very easily. I don't know if the beam is going to be able to kill him by itself, but I don't think so.
Death And Gaming (01:27:10.808)
If you're playing Rocket, you're most of the time pretty mobile and you're using your wall dashes to get around. yeah, don't... I am pretty sure that you'd probably be fine. The reason why I played Rocket was because of the fact that everyone was a selfish player. So if you have a Cloak and Dagger, Invis, or Luna, you usually would require more appeal against certain heroes, especially if you're getting dove by multiple people.
Coach Mills (01:27:16.002)
You get to fuck up a dyna?
Death And Gaming (01:27:37.132)
Rocket is the only, one of the only characters that can just completely ignore help from his team. So I imagine it's probably still gonna be the same thing with Devil Dino. Like you're gonna be airborne as Rocket, you're gonna be on the walls, you're gonna be using your wall dashes to get around. So even then, like with his gun doing more damage now too, I feel like he's probably gonna be able to shred a massive target like that. We'll see though.
Coach Mills (01:27:58.274)
Yeah, we'll definitely see. All right, let's move on to.
GALLUS (01:27:59.27)
Yeah, I don't know how much he gets headshot reduction, but I don't know how much.
Death And Gaming (01:28:03.92)
he does have a big ass head.
Coach Mills (01:28:03.96)
The Dino.
GALLUS (01:28:04.977)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (01:28:05.444)
Even with that, don't know, dude, with how big he is, I'm just like, you know, I have PTSD from every time I Hulk ult in front of like more than four targets. 1500 HP is literally gone in .2 seconds. So like, if that's just his reality all the time, I don't know. It's gonna be tough, we'll see.
Coach Mills (01:28:06.71)
I don't know if that's gonna really help him.
Coach Mills (01:28:13.196)
Hehehehehe
Captain Coach (01:28:14.011)
Yes.
GALLUS (01:28:14.032)
Yeah
Death And Gaming (01:28:14.314)
Next.
Coach Mills (01:28:20.716)
You just gotta be a sneaky dino around the corner. Like, you just gotta fuckin...
Death And Gaming (01:28:20.782)
through.
Captain Coach (01:28:23.653)
That's it. I'm the same with
Death And Gaming (01:28:25.28)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:28:26.532)
I'm kinda hoping there is actually some maps where he can't fit through some doors. Like...
Coach Mills (01:28:31.438)
Yeah, that's a he there's no way he can't that would be fucking absurd
Death And Gaming (01:28:32.227)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:28:32.603)
Can he fit through portal? Have we figured that out?
GragAlbert (01:28:34.29)
He can't he has to he has to be able to
GALLUS (01:28:38.928)
It would be so funny if he couldn't. I would allow it. Like, I'd be fine with that. Yeah. Yeah.
GragAlbert (01:28:41.042)
Yeah, I would allow it to. That'd a good balance decision.
Coach Mills (01:28:45.838)
Alright, let's talk about fucking Starlord. Alright, so Starlord got his ammo increased from 40 to 50. So just so y'all know the math on this, every bullet does 6.5 damage. At 40 ammo, that's 265 damage, from what I understand. And at 50 ammo, it's 325 damage. So, yes. So...
GragAlbert (01:29:09.318)
talking all body shots.
Wowzer.
Coach Mills (01:29:13.388)
Before any 275 HP character, if you didn't do headshots, you could not one clip them. And now 275 HP characters, you could easily one clip them with all body shots and you still have a lot of margin for error because it does 325. That's insane. Fucking insane. What's up? What's up, Cap?
Death And Gaming (01:29:29.678)
That's a crazy buff.
Captain Coach (01:29:31.707)
So the reason I brought this up earlier when we talked about the changes they were made and the ranks that they were directed towards, this is very clearly, unless they're highly incompetent, a change directed at the lower ranks. Have you seen a Star-Lord who is cracked or even worse, a Star-Lord who is cheating? You have to ban this character now. You have to if you're above, I would say like GM. Like this character is gonna run every single lobby. You can farm tanks now and just
Coach Mills (01:29:58.22)
Yeah, well... One clip with no body? One clip with all body shots is fucking absurd. They never let Tracer do that shit. Ever. One clip with only body shots? Are we joking?
Captain Coach (01:30:01.391)
Kill him in like two clips.
Death And Gaming (01:30:07.202)
No. No.
You always had to like, you always had to like, like when you're playing Tracer, you always had to have some sort of like blink melee or something in order to like follow up on it usually. 40, that's a massive, I was gonna say, was like, that's just like, that's a pretty massive change. Cause it was, it always felt like whenever I played Starlord that people would always have like a little bit of health left. But, you know, and like maybe you have to use your E to like execute, but this seems like so much more forgiving. And I.
GragAlbert (01:30:11.89)
I'm scared.
Coach Mills (01:30:19.65)
Like, like is anyone- sorry, go-
Coach Mills (01:30:36.398)
Has anyone watched a brook stream lately that motherfuckers gonna motherfuckers gonna he's gonna kill two people with one clip He's gonna kill two fucking people with one clip like
GragAlbert (01:30:39.558)
I was gonna say, I'm thinking of- Dude. I was thinking of Brooks immediately when I read this. Seeing Brooks on this new Star-Lord eye is gonna be actual nightmare inducing, man. Like, ugh.
Death And Gaming (01:30:41.793)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:30:44.485)
Ha
Death And Gaming (01:30:44.789)
Yes.
Captain Coach (01:30:48.507)
25 % increase.
Captain Coach (01:30:53.711)
No, you're gonna ban this hero.
Coach Mills (01:30:54.114)
Like, can easily one-clip somebody, flip, one-clip somebody else, never hit a headshot. Like, what the fuck is that?
GragAlbert (01:31:02.214)
He made an alt account where he unbound his flight, the way. He called it Floor Lord.
Death And Gaming (01:31:02.392)
I saw
GALLUS (01:31:05.692)
Yeah, Mantis, Mantis, speed boost him by the way. Absolutely.
Death And Gaming (01:31:05.708)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:31:10.048)
my god, I didn't even do the math on like the damage increase. It's probably like you don't even have to hit like 75 % of your shots or some shit with damage boost for Mantis and like it's just
Captain Coach (01:31:10.139)
my god.
Death And Gaming (01:31:10.306)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (01:31:10.412)
no.
Death And Gaming (01:31:18.198)
And he's.
GragAlbert (01:31:20.398)
Mantis Ultron Star Lord?
Coach Mills (01:31:23.788)
Like, but here's the thing that's mind-numbing. I know I'm jumping ahead. Like, I know I'm jumping ahead, but like right now, arguably the most powerful trio in the game is Star-Lord, Gambit, Rogue. Like that trio is extremely busted, cause Star-Lord, Gambit is just like goes over the top of everything and Rogue is super busted, ST or super ST with the team up. And they didn't get rid of any of it.
GragAlbert (01:31:24.88)
We need the dino, we need the dino lasering them, that's- he might be the solution, he's the only one who's gonna stop him.
Captain Coach (01:31:27.872)
Yeah, we just don't see it
GragAlbert (01:31:46.832)
With that team up, it's insane, yeah.
Coach Mills (01:31:50.53)
They didn't nerf Gambit, they didn't change the team up, they didn't change Rogue, and they buffed Star-Lord by a mag, like the biggest buff in the entire patch. I don't understand. Like I just don't get it. I don't know what's going on.
GALLUS (01:31:52.656)
Nope. Nope.
Death And Gaming (01:32:00.834)
I just, he still charges his alt faster than support alts too and now he can charge it faster, no? Like.
GALLUS (01:32:07.056)
You can charge it faster and it's a buff to his ult as well. Cause he, he, he needs that ammo in his ult and he's reloading less like.
Coach Mills (01:32:07.722)
Yeah, if they're not all dead first. Yeah, he didn't kill them all already
GragAlbert (01:32:11.281)
you
Captain Coach (01:32:15.451)
mean, it's some changes balance around high ranks, some changes balance around low ranks. There's no rhyme or reason to it. So you can only assume that their motive for this game isn't balance, it's profit driven. And I know that's a hot take and I that's like, but that is this game's ranked is not serious. They are trying to make the most money possible and they think that selling skins to low rank Starlords is the way they're gonna do it. Cause this is clearly just not, this is terrible for the game.
Coach Mills (01:32:30.766)
Hahaha!
GragAlbert (01:32:43.92)
I do agree it feels bad how there's like a disconnect. Yeah. No, go, do it, do it.
GALLUS (01:32:44.114)
Bro, I want to dive into that so bad, but I'm gonna be fucking yapping forever But like ranked is that ranked is their best engagement system. That's what ranked is to them It's not a ladder. It is an engagement system
Captain Coach (01:32:47.929)
No, go ahead. No, preach! Go ahead.
Death And Gaming (01:32:48.371)
I'm kind of curious.
Coach Mills (01:32:48.393)
Wait, wait, wait!
Coach Mills (01:32:57.016)
Is this also optimized? Or, no, I'm just like, I'm just like, let's not go there. Let's not go there. We're not going, we're not going down that route. Jesus. No.
GALLUS (01:33:01.638)
Legally, legally no.
Death And Gaming (01:33:04.75)
to stir in the pot.
GALLUS (01:33:09.138)
I'll do it bro. EOMM is somebody else's patent. They legally cannot say that they use it. No shit they said that.
Coach Mills (01:33:16.782)
Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, boo. Wait, where's, just a second. Where is it at? Where is it at?
Death And Gaming (01:33:17.72)
no.
Captain Coach (01:33:18.767)
Preach. Preach! Turn this guy up!
Death And Gaming (01:33:20.47)
No, no.
GALLUS (01:33:22.022)
They can't say they use it, they cannot do that. It's like a super trademark, bro. They can't use it.
Captain Coach (01:33:27.355)
I found another one! One of us! One of us! E.M. is real.
GALLUS (01:33:29.548)
Yeah
Coach Mills (01:33:30.584)
Does this work? There you go. On my camera? All right, whatever. No, no, I don't believe it. don't know. Greg, all right, all right, you get to decide, because death and I don't believe in it, gals and Captain Coach do, you're the ultimate decider. What do you think, Greg?
Death And Gaming (01:33:35.79)
I still don't believe it.
Captain Coach (01:33:43.406)
I just...
GragAlbert (01:33:45.714)
No, I mean, I've talked about this before. They posted a video about how their matchmaking works. just, does kind of function like EOMM. It's not EOMM because it's trademarked. But it functions similarly to other ranked systems, but also it has, the only thing that it has in addition is like the individual performance scores that they do use to balance the teams once 12 players are found. And that algorithm I think is where their flaw is.
Captain Coach (01:33:53.051)
Now, that.
Coach Mills (01:34:07.116)
Yeah, it's like, that's not any diff- that's not any different than how Overwatch was. Like, Overwatch did it the exact same way. But Overwatch did it the same way. Like, if you're call this an engagement system, then so is Overwatch. 100%. Okay, well, I mean, my problem is with selective outrage, not outrage. Like, I'll fucking bitch at all these companies, but I hate it when people like to single out Marvel Rivals as like this ranked system that is like... like...
GALLUS (01:34:11.282)
That's an engagement system.
Death And Gaming (01:34:12.152)
No, it's the same thing.
GragAlbert (01:34:13.649)
Well, I think.
GragAlbert (01:34:17.99)
Well the EOMM algorithm is from Overwatch.
GALLUS (01:34:18.706)
Well, I got bad news for you, bro. Yes. Like, yes.
GragAlbert (01:34:30.695)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:34:34.358)
Every ranked system is fucking ass. Like I played them all and they're all, they all have problems. Valor had problems, Overwatch had problems. Those are the two I could speak to. Those are the two.
Captain Coach (01:34:37.051)
Mm, nah, that's not true though, that's not true. It's in the last five, five or seven years is when they started doing these algorithmic based matchmaking and that's why they hide your true rating. Your invisible rating, the way they actually grade your accounts, you don't see that anymore. You used to see it because it was the ELO system. MMR, whatever, yeah.
GragAlbert (01:34:38.394)
I just think, I just think...
GragAlbert (01:34:58.937)
MMR.
Coach Mills (01:35:00.418)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, but I mean, it's been that way since Overwatch 2015. So it's been at least that long because they had to hit an MMR. They to hit an MMR.
GragAlbert (01:35:06.352)
Whoa!
Captain Coach (01:35:06.399)
I've had ranked matchmaking systems back in like 2005, 2006, and they worked just fine. And it's a bit more of a grind, but once you get to a rank, you know that you're going to play against people at your level. That does not happen in Rivals. It does not. They want everybody clumped at the higher ranks so the queues are faster. Like GALIS said, it's engagement based. They have everybody's account, like with basically an invisible rating, and they use that to...
Death And Gaming (01:35:23.246)
That's because right.
Captain Coach (01:35:34.828)
like fix the games, make them happen quicker. And I do think there probably is some kind of role-based like stuff they have behind the scenes, but.
Coach Mills (01:35:42.062)
Well, okay. The problem is the conclusion. What people run to though is the conclusion that, okay, if there is this engagement system built in, then it's not my fault that I'm in Grandmaster. It's not my fault that I'm in Diamond. That's the conclusion that people run to. And if your conclusion is the rank system sucks, but if your conclusion is the rank system sucks because of this, I can agree with that. But if your conclusion is this is what holds me back, that's just not fucking true at all.
GALLUS (01:35:44.07)
Yeah, probably.
Death And Gaming (01:35:54.21)
That's what I have issue with, yeah.
GALLUS (01:35:55.622)
Well, yeah, like to.
GragAlbert (01:35:59.964)
bad conclusion because we're all playing under the same system.
Captain Coach (01:36:01.433)
No, it's the game's fault.
GALLUS (01:36:10.898)
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. I've been like in the past, I've been pretty distinct about making sure those two things are separate. I think what was important to most people and a lot of the big creators when talking about EOMM was like, people who are bad jump on this because it's an easy out when you're having a bad time or you feel like you can't climb, right? To me, that has nothing to do with the system itself existing. And I feel like a system like that that is optimized for engagement or potentially
Coach Mills (01:36:11.755)
It's absolutely not true.
GALLUS (01:36:40.156)
pissing you off more, doesn't have anything to do with improvement on its own, that's another conversation. I have a problem with the system on a whole because I feel like over time, I find it less satisfying to play ranked. Because willy nilly, with stats that I can't see, if I have a good performance or pull a win out of my ass, I can get a 17.
Coach Mills (01:36:42.798)
you
GALLUS (01:37:04.722)
I can get a plus 17 when I'm not even near my peak rank and I haven't played much this season. And then can get hit with, if I'm playing on my most, one of my most recent seasons where I've barely touched ranked, I can get hit with a minus 26 for an insta loss that there was nothing you could do. There's no hero I can be. This is just a team diff and we're out.
Coach Mills (01:37:20.812)
Yeah, there's nothing you could fucking do over it. I think that there's a lot of people that jump on the EOMM bandwagon, not you, of course not you, but like other people that do, like not you, no, no, no, but they do, but they also don't understand that there are consequences to like, in order to fix that system, we need no performance gains. Like we need flat gains and losses, winning needs to be the most clear thing that matters, but then they...
Captain Coach (01:37:21.381)
Yo.
Captain Coach (01:37:24.844)
A-
GragAlbert (01:37:33.468)
Yeah
GALLUS (01:37:43.398)
Yeah. Yep.
Death And Gaming (01:37:43.598)
Yes, that's.
Coach Mills (01:37:48.642)
They want EOMM, like they think it has EOMM, they hate the system, but then they're not willing to be like, okay, well, sometimes you're gonna play really well and you're still gonna fucking lose the same rank. You're gonna lose 20. It doesn't matter if you got MVP, you're still losing fucking 20.
GALLUS (01:37:58.236)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:37:58.946)
Here's, yeah. I have words on that one.
Captain Coach (01:38:00.891)
Coach, Coach, Coach Mills come into his senses. I was about to call him Coach Shills.
Coach Mills (01:38:04.782)
Now, oh my like, like the problem is I can't I can't directly argue with the engagement optimized thing because like what is that actually fucking everything's engagement. Everything's optimized. Like, of course it is like like every fucking thing is engaged and optimized. Like, I'm not going to directly disagree. Fun, like, but it just doesn't really matter for like the the core goal, which is like if you're good, you'll still get to eternity. If you're good, you can still get to top of 100. If you're good, like.
Death And Gaming (01:38:16.194)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:38:16.762)
I can go into the weeds.
Captain Coach (01:38:17.125)
Sorry, Dave.
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:38:30.972)
Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:38:31.703)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:38:31.758)
But the rank system's ass, I'll agree with that. We can definitely agree there.
Captain Coach (01:38:35.074)
What? What were you saying, Death?
Death And Gaming (01:38:36.108)
Yeah, I was going to say, I had someone in my comments ask me this the other day, literally just like, but like, he's just like, why should a Spidey who's 2-11 on my team get more points if we end up winning the game? And players have this logic where they would rather punish themselves 99 times than let one guy get carried that didn't deserve it. Because ultimately, at the end of the day,
This system just hurts all of us, right? Because, you know, you can actually be trying to play the game the correct way and be punished for it. And Captain Coach, I know you know this because you had that Widow that was throwing on your team that got minus 14 for throwing and you got minus 24 for playing tank and actually trying. Like this game directly benefits. It actually happened. Like it was on stream. Farming damage on, yeah.
GALLUS (01:39:21.702)
Is that real?
Coach Mills (01:39:23.116)
Yeah, yeah, cause they had SVP cause they were just, they were just fucking around like farmer, farmer flanking, fucking around.
Captain Coach (01:39:26.575)
Mm-hmm. They were just goofing off.
GragAlbert (01:39:29.414)
But the performance, I mean, I gotta put my foot down here. You guys know the performance gains aren't that impactful, right? Like, if you're underneath Celestial, they are, because in the earlier ranks, they weighed it more. Again, this is all in the video they posted. They weighed it more the earlier you are in the ranks. But once you get to Celestial and above, you're not getting more than a three-point adjustment ever from performance alone, no matter what you play.
Captain Coach (01:39:36.123)
MMMM
GALLUS (01:39:50.086)
Yeah, yeah, like yes, true. I agree with that. But it's also it's also pulled apart at the edges as well.
Coach Mills (01:39:51.022)
That's a, that's, that's still a lot when I, when I, I, I, okay.
Captain Coach (01:39:53.689)
That's still significant, yeah.
GragAlbert (01:39:54.734)
No, the one- What's most significant- The most significant thing by far, 98 % of what determines your rank's gains and losses, is your rank compared to the enemy team's rank. That is everything. That is everything.
Death And Gaming (01:39:54.894)
This feels significant.
GALLUS (01:40:04.018)
That's what I was gonna say. The performance system doesn't just take into account performance, and it becomes a problem, because as the player base gets stretched out and there are less people as you get to the top, you're gonna have, especially not in peak times, you're gonna get some dipshit, me, paired with some fucking god tier player, right, they carry my ass, I get plus 25, they get fuck all, right, or if I lose, I barely lose anything, and they get punished, and-
GragAlbert (01:40:14.642)
Mm-hmm.
GragAlbert (01:40:26.928)
Yes, because you're at lower rank than them.
GALLUS (01:40:32.124)
We weren't ever dueled or anything and shit like that keeps happening. And what that does is it keeps pulling up bad players into games they shouldn't be with, especially if you add data across seasons over time, right? These are people getting inflated, right? By they're just not being a high enough population in these ranks, right? And they're just now bad actors in the system. They're in ranks they shouldn't be and potentially are getting pulled into higher games again and again and again. Like...
GragAlbert (01:40:50.105)
Exactly.
GragAlbert (01:40:59.94)
Yeah. And that's why it gets
Death And Gaming (01:41:01.09)
and certain.
GALLUS (01:41:01.106)
And the performance system does that on the whole, right? Plus 28 to some dipshit who is playing wrong and farming, right? Happens at scale over time to everybody. It encourages bad actors in the entire system, culturally. There is less trust everywhere because of stuff like this. Like people want to trust their teams less, they want to do their own thing less. Sorry, they want to do their own thing more, which means more stat padding.
Coach Mills (01:41:01.198)
Like, like, to, to, to, to, to.
Death And Gaming (01:41:13.549)
Yes.
Yes.
GragAlbert (01:41:19.388)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:41:24.4)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:41:27.428)
more performant like it reinforces itself and culturally everything is degraded people work as a team less and if it was a flat point percentage like just plus 20 minus 20 people do what it takes to win first that's it
Captain Coach (01:41:39.161)
They'd shoot the mines, they'd shoot the Phoenix Salt, you know, they'd shoot the clones.
GragAlbert (01:41:40.679)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:41:42.464)
I get punished for shooting mines and clones. there's literally, this literally happens all the time. Cause like my damage will be lower, but then you look back and you see what I was doing as Psylocke and I was shooting clones and squids and penny mines. And it's like, yeah, but you didn't do enough damage. You get enough kills for your team. Just like, somebody's got to shoot them and I'm the only one. Like, fuck.
Coach Mills (01:41:45.57)
Hey, cause... cause...
Coach Mills (01:42:02.542)
Cause what, what do you think, Greg? Do you think there's, there's any downside in like once people get to Grandmaster, it's just flat unless there's like some extraneous circumstances.
GragAlbert (01:42:10.897)
I mean, no, the only thing that it just sucks like it's an unavoidable problem really because of the population issues like the higher you climb the more likely it is that there's gonna be a larger rank disparity in your match. It's basically exactly what GAL is just said and so and that's the core of problem. I don't know if that's that fixable other than being more tight with the matchmaking and and resulting in a higher queue time which I think most devs want to stay away from. They know they hate having like the amount of time it takes to click play and then get into a match that entire time queue time.
Coach Mills (01:42:34.562)
Right. Yeah, yeah.
GragAlbert (01:42:40.252)
You know, the ban phase, everything. Most devs, they're trying to get that as short as possible, like at all costs. And it's tough.
Coach Mills (01:42:45.486)
Yeah. That's why I hate it. I hate it when I'm on Twitter and some like some celestial player or whatever has like a seven minute queue and they post it on Twitter and they're bitching about it. It's like, do you not understand what that consequence is? You bitching about a seven minute queue is going to make it so that they give you faster fucking queues. And now you're paired with a C3 player. Congratulations. Good luck. you created this problem because you complained about this problem. there are people need to understand that there are certain sacrifices you have to make for a
GragAlbert (01:43:06.491)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:43:14.67)
perfectly competitive rank system. It's not always gonna be perfect. Sometimes you're gonna carry a fucking person and they're gonna gain the same as you. Sometimes, you know, someone's just gonna straight up throw and there's nothing you can do and you just lose the same amount. doesn't matter how good you were playing. You have to, there's no sacrifices. You have to eat. You just have to eat them on the chin. That's it.
GragAlbert (01:43:28.924)
But that's another reason why I was talking about that solo queue only because I do think another big reason why there's a lot of rank disparity sometimes is because of duos. I know it's only one other person, but if I'm C1 playing with my GM1 friend, which is a realistic and common thing, all of a sudden I just ruin the competitive integrity of the entire match.
Death And Gaming (01:43:29.07)
And there's,
GALLUS (01:43:40.38)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (01:43:52.698)
all 12 players are in for the next game because you're gonna have like a mix of GM and Celestial players all the Celestial players are gonna have a harder time get less gains lose more and it's just like ugh I don't know I think a solo only mode could go really hard in this game I know it's anti-social and the whole point of the game is for it to be fun and like have everybody playing with their friends and that is probably where we should go with the game but man I do think the match quality would be so much better if there actually wasn't a full solo only mode
Death And Gaming (01:44:18.701)
feel like I would agree with you if the rivals player base, like in the performance system, I was already like y'all said, it incentivizes selfish play. also the, I've, rivals players are absolutely unbearable to me. Like I, I want to do a, not because I want to have an advantage, but because I want to have one person who I know isn't going to throw the game. Like just one other person that I know is not going to just like throw a tantrum. Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:44:32.002)
Yeah
GragAlbert (01:44:32.112)
Yeah, valid.
GALLUS (01:44:38.716)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (01:44:38.746)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:44:40.302)
That doesn't make sense. You do it with me all the time. I'm definitely throwing the game. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. Okay.
GragAlbert (01:44:43.186)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:44:43.515)
Rrrrr
GALLUS (01:44:43.801)
Hahaha
Death And Gaming (01:44:45.526)
I know what I'm doing when I do it with you though. Like I'm well aware.
GragAlbert (01:44:49.938)
You
Death And Gaming (01:44:51.926)
But yeah, I just like, I would, but I would say that Rivals is the one game where I started to solo queue and then gradually like the more I started to play it, the more I was like, you know what? It's just not fun unless I play with friends anymore. Just because of that problem. Like, you know, people lose one fight and they're like, well, I guess it's GG. And I'm like, is this your first time playing a hero shooter? Like, you know, you lose one fight, you come back, all to advantage. I don't know.
Coach Mills (01:45:09.686)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:45:14.835)
It's okay to die in a video game. Like, it's alright bro. Bye.
Death And Gaming (01:45:17.122)
Right.
GragAlbert (01:45:17.606)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:45:18.722)
Yeah. I, I, I, I, what's the?
Captain Coach (01:45:19.663)
Mills, you know what we should do? We should do a poll to see if people support that idea that Greg's throwing out, either in the comments or maybe like a community post, whether or not people would prefer a solo-only ranked mode. That'd be a
Coach Mills (01:45:26.434)
which is what's.
Coach Mills (01:45:30.774)
So lonely mode. Okay. Yeah, we'll bring it up. We'll also bring up the healing. yeah. This is a great thing to bring up now because Gauss is here. I think we already talked to death about it. So Tankpool has a passive heal when he's out of combat after I think it's like six seconds. We thought that it would be actually a really good implementation to just make that game wide. You might have to make some compensations to maybe nerfing support healing by like 5 % or something if you wanted to. But we do think that
Death And Gaming (01:45:40.237)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (01:46:00.458)
Allowing every single role if they're out of combat for a certain amount of time to get healing Just makes it so that supports don't have to coddle them as much they have more agency And I think it was gonna alleviate pressure from supports they could play make more and then like people can stage You know if you're safe in a position you could stage there and wait for your team like that It kind of lifts the pressure from a lot of things because they do it in overwatch and that's one of those changes that everyone loves like it was just one of those changes people didn't didn't like at first and Then once it was implemented. They loved it
GALLUS (01:46:25.269)
yeah, like...
Yeah, they, they, added in an Overwatch and that was one of the changes they made in Overwatch 2 before I stopped playing that I was just all for. I thought it was really good. Like I was a tank one trick in Overwatch 2. Like I played Junker Queen and like a benefit, it benefited me. just genuinely, bro. it just benefited. Like I thought it was just a net good. I think that's something they found in the space, like in the design space that was just like beneficial in rivals.
Coach Mills (01:46:41.081)
hell yeah. Fun fucking tank. They need to have a Junker Queen in Rivals. That'd be a sick character in Rivals. Be so sick.
Death And Gaming (01:46:45.55)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:46:56.86)
There are some like super, super mobile heroes on really, really big maps. Like I'm thinking like heroes that can stick on a wall outside, you know, where a normal hero can walk. So like Spider-Man is probably like the one hero that comes to mind.
Coach Mills (01:47:00.142)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (01:47:06.19)
Yeah, like fucking Spider-Man, yeah. Because it made Tracer really, it made Tracer so strong that they had to nerf her soon after they implemented it. But you could just nerf, you could just nerf Spider-Man. You could just nerf, you could nerf them. could just nerf them. Will they? I don't know, but you could.
Death And Gaming (01:47:16.654)
It's a direct buff to flankers.
Captain Coach (01:47:21.701)
There's also.
Death And Gaming (01:47:22.062)
Yeah, well, mean, people need to understand that that's going to be the consequence, right? Like, you're going to get passive healing, but if you're a flanker, you're going to get nerfed in other ways later. because.
GALLUS (01:47:22.14)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:47:25.969)
Yes.
Coach Mills (01:47:29.934)
but it will feel so good. it will just, like I think any, any nerf would be good compensation. Like proper.
Captain Coach (01:47:30.819)
Yeah. Well, another argument would be that just make health packs better or maybe more of them. So it's like an alternative to the passive healing. Heal tanks for more. But compost a similar effect, buff health packs, add more.
Death And Gaming (01:47:32.782)
I mean, it depends.
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:47:43.694)
Like, yeah.
GALLUS (01:47:43.932)
Yeah, yeah.
GALLUS (01:47:49.01)
I think for that reason, it might be better to have a self-heal passive in this game because it requires them doing a bit of work on the maps. Cause I feel like placement, placement as well. And I don't think it's happening to be honest.
Coach Mills (01:47:50.51)
It gives you more freedom to...
Coach Mills (01:47:57.422)
Yeah, they're not gonna do. I'm all for like, I like things that give you options and freedom. Like health packs, I mean, I think they're good. They actually let you outplay people if you have map knowledge, you you know where health pack is, but it's also cool to be able to stage from anywhere. Like you're safe somewhere. People don't find you, you're good. You can just stay there. You can wait, you can heal up, you know.
Death And Gaming (01:47:57.688)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:48:04.944)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:48:19.718)
Yeah, no, I think it's good and it's good for like, look man, I enjoyed it as a tank player, like in a game that had a solo tank. Like, you know, it opened up the play style to be able to do riskier stuff and like maybe like go on a flank on a hero that's not like hyper mobile and then sort of bunker down and do stuff like high rank pennies do, you know, and more heroes can sort of be creative and do like that, like being in creative spots.
Coach Mills (01:48:39.938)
Right. Yeah.
GALLUS (01:48:47.0)
is actually a really fundamentally important part of games like these because like where you stand, how you put out pressure, whatever, is kind of the whole game. Like you get space by trading resources with people, you get objectives off of that space and changing and allowing for more places you can go and sit at and contest like is more like it's just more depth and creativity and reward for the whole like
Coach Mills (01:49:13.646)
It feels really good on Tank Pool. It feels great. So, Captain Coach just got a dono that said, add more avoid slots. Okay, I got one more pitch before we go through the rest of the pod. Here's my pitch. So, back in the day, had a system where you could rate your teammates on their behavior, like positive or negative, and you got certain scores, right? Hear me out. What if you got to the high scores, you were given more avoid slots for good behavior?
Captain Coach (01:49:23.077)
Hahaha
GragAlbert (01:49:23.556)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:49:23.586)
That can't happen.
Coach Mills (01:49:43.298)
If you got to the low scores, they would, you know, maybe they even take away avoid slots. The reason that I say this is because someone might be toxic as hell, but they'll hold it in because they don't want to lose a fucking avoid slot, right? Like I think people would just generally be nicer for avoid slots. Like I think that's like one of those carrot things that you could, you could put it even front of the most egotistical player ever. And they're like, okay, I'm going to bite my tongue. I'm going to be nice because I get five fucking avoid slots.
And all these shitters need to be avoided so they're gonna be like a good person in ranked. I don't know, like what do y'all think about that? I always thought that that would be an interesting idea to encourage good behavior. Find a way to encourage good behavior.
GragAlbert (01:50:21.84)
It definitely seems like a good idea. My only worry is the same worry I have with every good idea, which is the rivals player base reacting to it and like figuring out a way to take advantage of it and be like, all right, we're going to five men vote him down, five men vote him up, you know, or like whatever it is like, you know, everyone vote this guy down at the end of the game. Everyone vote this guy down. It's just like, it's just going to become like a new way to bully people.
Coach Mills (01:50:35.492)
Yeah
Death And Gaming (01:50:35.64)
They're gonna game this system, yeah.
Coach Mills (01:50:40.034)
That, yeah, that's...
Captain Coach (01:50:41.571)
But it also, we've got to be careful not to contradict ourselves with the types of ideas we have. Because if there's, especially in the higher ranks, more avoid slots, then ultimately the matchmaking is going to have to find the Spider-Man who just threw the game, because he's going in all team by himself, someone to play with. And then now that person might get matched with people way above or way below, because everyone in their current rank avoided them. So you could be introducing yourself to some situations that make the game quality worse.
Coach Mills (01:51:08.75)
Right. Yeah. mean, if I mean, if you're if you're a toxic shitter and everyone has you avoided, then yeah, you could just sit in a 25 minute queue or help. Maybe you could just uninstall the fucking game and go play something else. All right. Yeah. Get the fuck out here. All right. You know, it's like, oh, you know, but.
Captain Coach (01:51:18.715)
There you go
GragAlbert (01:51:20.146)
You
GALLUS (01:51:21.467)
You
GALLUS (01:51:27.026)
Big thing that comes to mind for me. Do you want to go death you go? Okay, is when you introduce something like that if there's a punishment or less avoids for People who are reported more or whatever it means that the you know who I'm talking about But like you know those players who were just like fucking always tilted or like always toxic There's a group of them who were gonna think there's no point anyway because of this and remain toxic forever
Death And Gaming (01:51:27.32)
think there just definitely needs to be something. Hmm. No, you go for it. go for it.
GALLUS (01:51:55.046)
It's like they essentially get burned out of potentially acting a little bit more okay, because they think it's no point. The system's for babies. I can't say whatever I want, blah, blah, blah. And they just double down on it because of something like this.
Coach Mills (01:51:57.418)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:52:02.753)
I mean
Coach Mills (01:52:09.326)
That's like the fucking chronic drinker that's like, you know, hey they changed they changed the drunk driving laws I'm gonna get thrown in jail, but you know, I'm gonna get caught eventually like I can't change who I am So fuck it now. I'm just gonna get hammered while I drive. I'm not even
GragAlbert (01:52:10.565)
Yep, valid.
Captain Coach (01:52:16.41)
Wow.
GALLUS (01:52:24.472)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly.
Captain Coach (01:52:26.459)
I thought it was the metaphor you were gonna make was like you get put in separate queues so drunk drivers have to drive on roads with other drunk drivers I thought is what you were gonna say okay, Bill thinks I'm serious
Coach Mills (01:52:34.201)
Oh, oh, that, well, that's like, that's another idea that's really interesting is that, well, no, here's the other idea is that like, know, that ranking, that rating system, what if people that were rated negatively get put with each other? Like the toxic players get put on the same team and the positive players get put on the same team. You know, like, you know, it's like, like if you're, if you're typically a positive person, like they, basically just put all of the talk, the most toxic players together. They pair them together intentionally, like in the system. Yeah.
GragAlbert (01:52:42.066)
Bye!
Captain Coach (01:53:00.281)
Yeah, yeah, that's what I thought you guys were gonna say.
Death And Gaming (01:53:03.478)
A lot of game companies tend to try to avoid that model. think like Dota actually did it that way. But like they try to avoid that model because toxic players just end up becoming like make other make themselves more toxic. So they try to avoid that so that way they can somehow find a way to rehabilitate the players to keep them playing but maybe not be toxic. But at the end of the day like the system doesn't detect toxicity well. And you know there's a lot of people that are you know.
Coach Mills (01:53:03.704)
That would be.
GALLUS (01:53:09.841)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (01:53:33.484)
frequently toxic in the game. It's the same people, especially in high L.E. You them over and over again. And there's no sort of like reformation for a lot of like the player behavior that seems to be working right now. Like I do think that Overwatch when Overwatch went to Overwatch 2, they went a little heavy handed to the point that everyone just left voice entirely. I don't want to see that happen. But I will say that like something needs to happen. But it can't be like they're going to be hesitant on anything with more void slots because Q times are just, you know,
Even a single extra avoid slot going from three to four would increase queue times pretty significantly. And that's what they're going to be trying. They're going to try and be careful about.
Coach Mills (01:54:09.518)
Gotcha. Makes sense.
Captain Coach (01:54:10.425)
Yeah, I agree. I agree.
Death And Gaming (01:54:13.814)
Yeah, they gotta do something, but I just like, don't have an answer for it.
Coach Mills (01:54:15.13)
That's why Momo said that you couldn't give, you could give more voice slots to lower ranked players, but you couldn't give them to higher ranked players. That's what Momo was saying. That's interesting. Okay, let's move on to talk about Wolverine and get through the strategy. reduce the trigger cooldown of the regenerative healing factor from 105 to 90 seconds on Wolverine. What do you think about this? What do you think, Greg? Yeah, you got an opinion on it? You look like you want to say something about.
Death And Gaming (01:54:22.19)
Yeah, it wouldn't work.
GALLUS (01:54:22.194)
Mm. Yeah.
GragAlbert (01:54:40.868)
No, I'm not sure I mean I was gonna say I do think it could be good The big thing with with his healing factor in general you got to remember is that his he reduces the cooldown with takedowns So the question is is this extra 15 seconds gonna bring him to a threshold where with enough active team fighting? He just always has his passive. I don't think so, but he's definitely gonna feel a little bit more oppressive I mean, you you call out when you get his passive down and if he's getting it that much faster
after like a couple of team fights, it could be huge. Does anyone know how much, how many seconds are shaved off when he gets like a takedown?
Death And Gaming (01:55:15.532)
I didn't even know he did that.
Coach Mills (01:55:15.554)
Isn't it depending on his... Yeah, isn't it? I thought it's dependent on his rage. Am I trolling?
GALLUS (01:55:15.932)
think it's 10?
GragAlbert (01:55:21.092)
Is it? I thought he just gets a flat amount every time he gets a takedown.
Coach Mills (01:55:24.759)
Maybe.
GALLUS (01:55:25.158)
I thought it was 10. I could be wrong.
Coach Mills (01:55:32.035)
No. Regenerative healing factor?
GALLUS (01:55:37.18)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:55:38.583)
Cool down per KO engaged, 10 seconds. Cool down reduction, 10 seconds.
GragAlbert (01:55:41.828)
Okay. So if it's down to 90 seconds base and then like you guys get a team wipe, you still have a little bit of time. So I think it might be okay. I don't know. mean, Wolverine, would you guys think Wolverine's like overly strong right now? I think he's in an okay spot.
Coach Mills (01:55:59.534)
I think he's pretty strong. Once again, I'm always left with this question a lot this patch. What's, why? Like why, what are we doing this for?
GALLUS (01:56:07.568)
Yeah, I hate the guy. Bro, there's so much tank busting in this patch. In the Dino patch. Like that's kind of what this is, bro. They're just like... It happened to Iron Fist as well. Iron Fist didn't get better against Squishies. He's just more spamming on main and blocking.
GragAlbert (01:56:10.546)
You
Coach Mills (01:56:10.67)
What are we doing this for?
Captain Coach (01:56:14.744)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:56:16.462)
They're a for what we We I mean we already kind of our brainstorming like like the dyno plus thing plus Hulk like Mantis speed boosts like like just a fucking psycho brawl So maybe they're afraid they're like, ooh, we got above this fucking guy like we got to make sure Yeah Yeah Just a cop that like they can hit all the shots they want but it doesn't fucking matter because we're just like
GALLUS (01:56:29.798)
Yeah true, yeah.
GragAlbert (01:56:31.628)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:56:34.746)
Yeah, I wanna run a big hitbox comp. Like, I want all the biggest heroes on one team. Like...
GragAlbert (01:56:37.656)
Yes, yes. Gotta get Fox in there.
Coach Mills (01:56:45.19)
glob of 3000 fucking hell like like like Yeah, legit death ball. I will talk about that more in a second of the second coming of goats goats is back Baby, it's back better than ever.
Captain Coach (01:56:48.773)
Death Ball.
GragAlbert (01:56:56.23)
Yeah
Captain Coach (01:56:58.233)
I think this change is fine. I mean, it's not much. Maybe it'll save you once a game or something. It's whatever. It just seems kind of random. I would prefer this... Yeah, power... I would prefer it be shorter cooldown and maybe have less of an effect. So I mean, I'm okay with this.
Coach Mills (01:57:02.114)
Yeah, yes, yes, whatever. That hit.
GALLUS (01:57:03.506)
Thanks
GragAlbert (01:57:08.027)
Power creep.
GALLUS (01:57:09.543)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:57:15.096)
How do y'all feel about, I feel like a lot of these patch notes have this where it's like a change that doesn't really do anything. Like doesn't meaningfully matter. And they do them all the time where it's just like.
GALLUS (01:57:27.078)
This is... If I'm thinking about what this actually does, this is a win rate change. This will adjust the win rate slightly. But it's not something you feel in-game. I mean, you probably will feel this game, to be honest. It might feel like in some games he always has his passive. I'm kind of against this in general because I hate the hero. I remember Season 2 when we were permabanding him. I don't forget. Like, he's still the same hero, bro. Like, I don't want to get fucking altered by this guy. I hate him.
Death And Gaming (01:57:32.451)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:57:34.36)
by like half a percent. Yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (01:57:44.792)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:57:49.294)
Yeah, he is. No, he's actually legit stronger than he was in season two, actually, because he...
Death And Gaming (01:57:49.744)
Yeah, right.
GragAlbert (01:57:50.971)
That's true.
Death And Gaming (01:57:54.71)
actually.
GALLUS (01:57:54.81)
like bro no don't do this please like you can't plan for his passive there's no real visual indicator that means anything it can adjust on the fly like the problem with this ability is that it adjusts per ko like this needs to have a flat cooldown and a visual indicator that makes sense so you know when he has it and he doesn't that's kind of it bro
Coach Mills (01:57:58.648)
Hehehehe
Coach Mills (01:58:16.481)
that would be really cool to know it has it.
GragAlbert (01:58:18.118)
I would love to hear a cool like global voice line from him. I'm ready, bub or something like that.
Coach Mills (01:58:22.254)
Oh, he like what he has it? Oh, shit.
Captain Coach (01:58:22.267)
That's what I said.
Death And Gaming (01:58:25.583)
His win rate is just sitting around 47%, 48 % overall. So it does seem like a bit of a win rate change. But also, the same time, Star-Lord had a 51 % win rate. So I don't know where they're coming.
Coach Mills (01:58:34.534)
They dad there's literally no fucking consistency in this patch and in none of the patches there are it's not about win-rate Sometimes it feels like it's vibes. I don't fucking know. I don't really know I legit know it's maybe it's it maybe it's what you said. It's optics. Sometimes it does feel a little bit like it's optics
Captain Coach (01:58:44.475)
It really does. It really does.
Death And Gaming (01:58:46.059)
I got it.
Captain Coach (01:58:51.769)
Yeah, because everybody knows Invis is OP, and then you look at this change, it's like, it's only for the push. It hardly does anything.
Coach Mills (01:58:57.87)
So let's talk about, for those listening, so this is the change. yeah, yeah, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, yes, yes. Let me, let me, me, some people are only gonna be able to listen to this on the pod. So now Sue, her push distance goes down from 12 to 10 and the damage goes from 55 to 50 damage. And it's, yes, it is only the push. Only the push got nerfed, not the pull. From my understanding.
GALLUS (01:58:58.3)
Hmm hmm
GragAlbert (01:59:01.81)
Is this, by the way, is this push only and not pull?
Captain Coach (01:59:04.303)
Yeah.
GALLUS (01:59:08.225)
my go-
GragAlbert (01:59:20.666)
Is that confirmed? That's confirmed? Because I would think that this is like a they just forgot to type the push slash pull.
Death And Gaming (01:59:27.064)
Yeah. Remember the Torch Patch Notes? This could be off.
Coach Mills (01:59:27.242)
It might be let me let me actually take a look. Are they are they linked? Are they linked?
GALLUS (01:59:27.9)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:59:31.587)
Invinci is gutted, guys. She'll never recover from this.
GALLUS (01:59:31.687)
Okay.
GragAlbert (01:59:33.734)
Ha
Coach Mills (01:59:35.116)
Well, let's see if is the push and pull the same right now? Push, pull, no, no, no, pulls only seven meters. So, so it's only so it's the same. The pulls the same. A pull is still seven. Push is now 10. So, no, it's not a it's not a typo or mistyper.
GragAlbert (01:59:38.246)
Well, they're both on E or both on
GALLUS (01:59:41.394)
my god!
GragAlbert (01:59:42.296)
GragAlbert (01:59:51.58)
But there's only one damage on that wiki, so maybe the damage is affecting both?
GALLUS (01:59:56.336)
Yeah, probably.
Coach Mills (01:59:56.906)
I believe so, yes. Yes, the same damage across both. Yeah, because that five damage really fucking was relevant, right guys?
GALLUS (02:00:00.902)
The mentality would be behind it, so it's easy to stay on top of her if you dive her or whatever this is, I guess.
Coach Mills (02:00:06.668)
Like, no one has really been complaining about her push anyways. Like, push has never been anyone's fucking complaint! And no one's complaining about its damage either! I can't, I just can't.
GALLUS (02:00:10.597)
No.
Captain Coach (02:00:10.65)
Nobody.
GragAlbert (02:00:11.356)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (02:00:14.575)
This is the one thing they probably shouldn't have nerfed, because you can go for push plays like stealth sneakily and reposition to get people off the map. So now they get rid of like the one cool thing she does do. She's still a raid boss. Now you're even more encouraged to just play her like passively heal body. This is so lame. This is such a bad j-
GALLUS (02:00:31.558)
Yeah, more frequently she will do the thing that's annoying now. Like, that's the point. Like, okay, sick, bro, what are we doing?
Captain Coach (02:00:35.715)
Yeah. Yeah.
Terrible. Terrible change.
Death And Gaming (02:00:41.454)
I think that like the problem of course for a lot of people is like the self shield which you know should probably be re-worked into a different form of ability. I don't think the self shield was necessarily the you know like I think the self shield should have been the one to be addressed or at least like the range of like the push and pull more than anything because it's like 30 meters or something which is pretty insane.
Coach Mills (02:00:41.912)
Like, I don't understand, I fucking understand.
GALLUS (02:00:54.939)
best idea.
GALLUS (02:00:59.826)
Yep.
GALLUS (02:01:03.398)
Yeah, self-shield broke this hero, like, and-
Coach Mills (02:01:03.534)
Like an instant speed pull, instant speed CC from range, I don't really feel, like it's an undodgeable CC that's instantaneous. Like people were bitching about Bucky Hook. I remember forever when Bucky Hook was like on an eight second cool down. And that thing is like stubby and telegraphed. Like, and this is not, and it does the same fucking thing most of the time. Like just gets you just enough outside, like out of your comfort zone to die or to not get away.
Death And Gaming (02:01:14.541)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:01:23.885)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:01:34.658)
Yeah, but...
Coach Mills (02:01:34.702)
Here's the only thing I can, this is the only thing I can understand. The reason that they refuse to a nerfer is because they also, by the way, we didn't talk about it. What was not changed in the DPS catalog. No Black Cat changes, no Daredevil changes. None of these characters were touched. And so maybe that's the argument. Yeah, like let's actually rewind it a little bit and talk about that. There's a lot of people that think Black Cat needs to be nerfed.
Captain Coach (02:01:52.516)
No more.
Coach Mills (02:02:01.998)
There's a lot of people that think that Daredevil is still really, really strong. are y'all's thoughts on the fact that they didn't touch either of those characters in this patch?
Death And Gaming (02:02:09.263)
Daredevil one is shocking to me considering his insane win rate on him and then how oppressive that hero is. There's no one that even compares or comes even close. But even then, in terms of.
Coach Mills (02:02:16.59)
was insane. I mean...
Coach Mills (02:02:24.066)
I mean, except for Jean Grey. Who's Jean Grey? Who's...
GALLUS (02:02:27.184)
Yeah, mean, Light's out there talking about Daredevil being the only one to gatekeep or being able to contest these heroes. I bet Jean beats Daredevil now, this patch, probably, in a 1v1 or some sh- If he wasn't already.
Coach Mills (02:02:36.558)
Yeah, I mean they're both I mean we're talking about like the the greatest sorcerer in history versus the greatest sorcerer of all time or whatever or or today Yeah, you know like they're both like fucking so good And it feels like both of them should probably just be brought down like like and instead both of them are not and you could argue Invis Invis Phoenix daredevil
GALLUS (02:02:44.291)
yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:02:46.028)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:02:53.976)
Yeah.
GALLUS (02:02:54.275)
I agree.
Coach Mills (02:03:02.774)
Like all three of them are on this like plane of like power gambit like these these extremely busted heroes for like the past entire season That didn't get touched like the only s-tier hero that actually got nerfed was tank pool He's the only one that actually ate a nerf the other ones The other ones didn't fucking get nerfed Invis this this this nerf doesn't even affect Invis daredevil didn't get fucking touched phoenix got buffed like what are we doing?
Captain Coach (02:03:16.879)
Yeah. Thanks. Always the tanks.
Death And Gaming (02:03:17.198)
Reasonably got nerfed, yeah.
I a tank, yeah.
Captain Coach (02:03:26.427)
I see an argument a lot that characters like Daredevil and, you know, by proxy Black Cat are a necessary evil. And I'm like, no, they are not. They are an excuse is what they are. They're not a necessary, they're an excuse to keep these characters busted. So when you play characters that can't like pressure them enough and deal with them, you feel helpless. Like you can't balance around, this around one or two matchups and have repeat those and then just struggle with, you know, raid.
GALLUS (02:03:27.09)
but...
GALLUS (02:03:39.239)
Hahaha
Captain Coach (02:03:56.601)
server admin, everything else. You can't do that. Tone them down a little bit and we can tone down the sustain. I mean, I just feel like 50, what a 59 % pick rate, 53 % win rate on that year. Like, are we serious? Like this is the, Invis, Invis, in Celestial Plus.
Death And Gaming (02:04:08.238)
on Daredevil or Invis. According to their own stats, it's 51.3 % on their own stats. So.
Coach Mills (02:04:10.219)
Invis. Invis.
GALLUS (02:04:11.228)
The peak rate and win rate on that hero is atrocious and this is what we get.
Coach Mills (02:04:15.373)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (02:04:20.539)
Okay, well they also told us Triple Heel was bad from their stats, so don't think we can really trust what they're telling us.
GragAlbert (02:04:24.306)
Ha
Death And Gaming (02:04:24.751)
Like here's here's me coming to the defensive supports here. All right, because like as one who actually has a support in their top three like Keep they are balancing the game not based off of like what the supports can do in like a 1v1 situation They're based there they're balancing them based off of how the game is played and everybody does the same thing where each person tries to dive the back line at the same time and both sides complain about like not getting enough heels and both teams
Want their healers to heal them while they dive. They want to heal the frontline. They say also defend the other support and defend yourself at the same time. So they buffed the supports to do just that. Because in season two, they said dive is really strong, but also you should defend your supports. And collectively, as a community, everyone said, not my fucking job. So what did they do? Three seasons later, they buffed the supports to do everything asked of them. And you want to know something?
There's still not enough support players in Celestial, so I don't want to fucking hear from anyone. Because I'm tired of playing support for people who have a negative win rate on support.
Coach Mills (02:05:22.382)
You
GragAlbert (02:05:24.528)
We literally just played, yeah.
Captain Coach (02:05:29.455)
They don't need more responsibility. They need less. Lower their agency. Lower it. They'll be happier. They just don't know it.
GragAlbert (02:05:29.68)
That was our experience today.
Coach Mills (02:05:37.858)
Like like I do it like to speak to what you're saying death is like I do get like the community like lost his fucking mind and like Everyone bitches that a support to like simultaneously like deal with the dive heal them all perfectly like do all these things all at the same time and like that's kind of what they power-couped it to the problem is That never it doesn't change. It doesn't change anything like people are still bitching Even now they like they my argument is that people will bitch no matter what you do
Death And Gaming (02:05:38.871)
Yeah
Coach Mills (02:06:07.596)
Like these characters, like Invis could literally be immortal and could press a button on you to heal you to instantly full. And people would bitch about you not swapping it to them when they need it, right when they need it. Like it doesn't, it literally doesn't matter. So like, I think that especially this game has this problem where the, design, everyone is so reliant on supports and supports are given so much that it puts a lot of pressure on the support player.
Death And Gaming (02:06:11.245)
Yeah.
GALLUS (02:06:31.398)
Yep. Yep.
Yes.
Coach Mills (02:06:36.746)
And it also makes these supports are like extremely powerful. And I think if we adjusted things, we reduce the sustain, maybe increased damage and playmaking of these supports, but reduce the sustain, reduce the healing, maybe gave everyone the heal passive we're talking about. People are still gonna bitch, but I think the game is gonna feel a lot better to play from everyone's point of view, in my opinion. I don't know what you all think, but I think that like, it's just absurd.
GALLUS (02:07:02.256)
Yeah, like the whole pain, the whole pain point of that support experience is the level of responsibility they have. And that directly comes from the damage and healing numbers in this game. Like healing is so ludicrously high that the base, like from day one support experience is that you kind of have the potential to keep everybody alive. Right. Meaning that you have to keep track of five targets and that's it. It's heal body. Right.
And they also made these ludicrously like attention draining hypermobile dive heroes that kind of at the skill floor can really feel like they are always there. And for like a, for a player being onboarded into this game, it's just like, it's a complete fucking mental overload, bro. And it's completely unpleasant. And it makes it feel like the game isn't working. And you kind of can remedy that by making them weaker. Like if they didn't have to be healing everything,
Coach Mills (02:07:42.378)
Yeah.
GALLUS (02:08:00.978)
constantly, like you could narrow the focus of stuff and make it feel like, you know, doing this, this, this, this, this, and this job, as well as ulting perfectly, blah, blah, wasn't what you have to do all the time. And you know what? It would also open up future hero releases to not always need a fucking circle of healing in their ultimate, you know, and they could be rocket on launch and it's just a damage boost and it is utility.
Captain Coach (02:08:21.263)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:08:22.062)
But wait.
Wait, but...
But we got a support out that wasn't healing, was Gambit, and we fucking hate it.
GALLUS (02:08:31.611)
A ca- no! You know what Gambit alt is? Gambit alt is if you boil down what a circle healing alt is, you can turn that directly into Gambit and it's one to one. What were fucking circle heal alts used for? It is you play passively and when someone makes a mistake, you rip away all space from the enemy team and run them over and shit them out dead. And that is exactly what Gambit's alt does. It functions the
Captain Coach (02:08:31.739)
No, that's it
Coach Mills (02:08:32.047)
Well, that's not a game.
GragAlbert (02:08:33.703)
Yeah.
GALLUS (02:09:00.861)
perfect way that LunaAlt did in the first ever triple sup season 1.5 whatever it's the same thing and the speed boost arguably makes it even better like it's just my god man
Captain Coach (02:09:11.771)
Yeah. I really like what you're saying, Galus. Let me introduce it, almost word it in a way, to where I think support players would actually be okay if their heroes got nerfed. Reduce that healing output, like you said, and now you can give them more defensive tools and more ways to fight back against these really oppressive heroes. And now all of a sudden, I'm not reliant on healers as much as a tank, and you get to fight your own fights while still being
Coach Mills (02:09:11.97)
Ma- One of the things that-
Captain Coach (02:09:40.801)
overall probably less strong. And I think that's like a fair trade-off.
Coach Mills (02:09:44.856)
I love the idea of supports having pieces of utility that aren't healing pieces of utility. Like they can erect a wall. Maybe they have a bubble, they have a barrier, they have stuff that they can do to protect themselves that is not just we are healing more or we are adding more sustain. Cause the problem is that sustain is then used in a lot of different ways that just are like, of break the game. If you make it so that that sustain could just let you just tank through ults.
GALLUS (02:09:50.77)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:10:12.152)
then it can be used aggressively like you're seeing with Invis where like Coach Covey was said, Invis can literally hold these off angles and win duels with DPS if they just run into her. Like in isolation, she just gets to win because of that level of sustain. like, not, this isn't necessarily like, we're not trying to criticize every support. We're not criticizing all of them. We will criticize some, but we are specifically criticizing Invis. Like just this character is, we're criticizing a lot.
GragAlbert (02:10:29.618)
She has all the utility and all the damage.
GALLUS (02:10:38.94)
Hehehehe
Death And Gaming (02:10:40.494)
And then there's a Snuff Shield makes her a raid boss for sure. Like she is super powerful because that.
Coach Mills (02:10:42.84)
Cause what you're talking about with like the juggling of everything, like I can agree with that with something like Luna where you're like, you have to freeze, you have to hit, you have to do this. But when Invis can, against a lot of characters, just put a shield on herself and then do something else, I don't really think that that's like, that's not even comparable to like the juggling that Luna would have to do to like do multiple different things at the same time. It's.
GALLUS (02:10:43.152)
Yeah, that broke the hero.
Coach Mills (02:11:09.17)
Like before when she could put on an ally like at least she had a position well to them and like kind of like there was extra pressure involved there like
Death And Gaming (02:11:13.686)
Yeah. I kind of see Invis the same way as I do like Penny though. Like if you break the shield, she's really weak during the fight without it, right? And like, once again, but that's what I mean. You could say the same thing about the Penny nest. And once again, when I see the Invis shield, I'm shooting the Invis shield. When I see the Penny nest, I'm shooting the Penny nest. Like people need to shoot the things that don't give them damage numbers. Like.
Coach Mills (02:11:23.55)
but it's always up. It's never down for a substantial amount of time.
GALLUS (02:11:25.906)
Is she?
Coach Mills (02:11:35.05)
Yeah, I know, but that's like my problem is like I spend time shooting the penny nests like you I spend time shooting the penny nest I'd spend time shooting the invis shield and that's value that I got that someone else needs to capitalize on and you just can't expect that in ranked play like you just don't see that like people don't People people don't capitalize on any of the value that you create for them. You could shoot a Phoenix ult To one HP and no one's gonna fuck everyone's running. I was fucking running
Death And Gaming (02:11:58.413)
No one shoots it, yeah. Yeah. This is where like, yeah. I was just going to say, and I'll toss it you, Like, this is where the player base, you know, because I see people all the time, they're like, I can't believe, like, you know, I dove the Luna, she froze me and headshot me and killed me and I died. I'm like, yeah, but you had multiple abilities you could have used to bait it out to dodge it and you didn't. And she ended up outplaying you there. Like, yeah, she's powerful. But at the same time, like,
GragAlbert (02:11:59.507)
True. I mean, I think, yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
GALLUS (02:12:00.08)
Yeah, yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:12:23.619)
The other day I went and I fought a Luna and she started clapping and I just walked away and then I came back in three seconds later and I capitalized on my own opportunity. A lot of people are trying to force things to happen that don't need to happen. Like people still haven't learned in Rivals yet that pulling attention and resources is value because we have a portion of the player base that is like playing strategically and trying to pull out resources and stay alive and another player base that's running it down getting 30 plus deaths in a game.
Being like, I'm creating value and both sides can't exist in the same game. Like you have two players playing two completely different ways.
Captain Coach (02:12:52.495)
saying, me!
Coach Mills (02:12:54.03)
So I'm saying that the auto healing passive solves these problems a lot. just saying, I'm gonna keep preaching it until Nettys puts it in. I'm just saying it puts it in.
Captain Coach (02:12:57.995)
I-I-I-I KNOW YOU CAN KEEP ME UP!
Death And Gaming (02:13:04.044)
Yeah, but Greg, I'm curious what you were gonna say, because...
GragAlbert (02:13:08.314)
Well, was gonna, well, one thing I want to say to what you just said is like, I think what you said is true. And part of the reason why that, kind of behavior or mentality of just like running it down is so strong is because the healing has been so good historically in the game. You can like, you're able, yeah, you're able to walk forward and a lot of healers can actually keep you up if you're brain numbingly pressing W and main doing nothing like, and it's, it's viable because the heals do exist to support that. So that's like a very tough issue.
Coach Mills (02:13:20.65)
It's a fucking- It's a cycle! It's a vicious cycle! Yeah.
GALLUS (02:13:30.396)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:13:32.142)
Oh, no. I 100 % because I wanted to, because that's the point I hear the most. I see it all the time. They say if you nerf the healing and sustain in this game, you have to nerf the damage because there's too much damage in this game. Otherwise, people would just explode. And my argument to that is, have you ever played Overwatch? People don't fucking stand in the goddamn open and tank getting shot by 10 people and live.
GragAlbert (02:13:56.486)
Hahaha!
Captain Coach (02:13:56.736)
hahahahah
GragAlbert (02:13:59.484)
Dude, it's a third- it's a third-person shooter and we don't use cover. People don't use cover in a third-person shooter. How crazy is that?
Coach Mills (02:14:00.814)
That doesn't happen. You use cover. There's a fucking wall. They don't. it's not really anyone's fault except for the devs here. I love the devs, know, full simp, but it is the devs fault because when you create a system that allows people to just be completely out of position and survive through it, they start to expect that. then their demands rise to a certain level and then supports feel like that is their burden because
Death And Gaming (02:14:02.478)
They will.
GragAlbert (02:14:23.556)
Yeah, because it- yeah, it's easier.
GALLUS (02:14:26.918)
Yes.
Coach Mills (02:14:31.01)
They expect that. And it's just like the cycle where like you just got to fucking rip the bandaid off eventually and like tell people, hey, you need a fucking play cover or you're going to be in plat. Like that's that's just how it is. Like you don't get to climb playing in the open space.
GragAlbert (02:14:37.446)
And the sleep.
GragAlbert (02:14:42.687)
This shit that sucks though? Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:14:43.308)
Yeah, and then they switched to Widow and then they throw your game because they're like, fine, fuck this, game is unwinnable. I play too much fucking support to deal with this of like, yeah, like you need to learn to be a better DPS. Like that's never going to happen because when I play DPS, the game ends and I have like take damage taken at the end of it, 5,000 damage. And my other, my other DPS has like 16,000 and they just don't ever want to learn. And it's just like, you could just not.
Coach Mills (02:14:48.589)
Yeah, I did.
Hehehehehe
GALLUS (02:14:57.669)
Hahaha
Coach Mills (02:15:06.414)
Yeah, they're standing down there. Let's go.
Death And Gaming (02:15:13.294)
Like this is one of the things, they'll stand in front of six people, take damage, and they'll be like, where was my heals? dude, you were Punisher ulting into an Invis ult in front of six people. I was healed. What did you want me to do more? Like, I...
GALLUS (02:15:25.682)
That actually happened to me like last week bro a punny just altered in front of the Invisal he fucking died. What are you doing, bro? Yep
Death And Gaming (02:15:28.928)
It's a funny thing, like...
Yeah. And then they blame you. And you're like, well, fuck, man. Like, I totally agree. But I think that even if we lowered the healing, are Rivals players going to learn? I don't think so. They haven't been too quick so far.
GragAlbert (02:15:46.065)
Who knows?
Coach Mills (02:15:46.734)
But like the people that I learned, the people that I learned will actually climb. exactly they'll climb. They'll fucking climb.
Captain Coach (02:15:47.78)
Rank 3 set.
GALLUS (02:15:48.298)
I mean the pain is the best teacher. Yeah. Pain is the best teacher. If you just keep fucking dying and shit changes at some point, you're gonna be like, I'm sick of dying, bro. Like something changes. It does. Okay.
Death And Gaming (02:15:51.809)
yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:15:56.055)
Hehehehe
GragAlbert (02:15:58.725)
At some point.
Coach Mills (02:16:01.55)
You're losing games. if you start... You have to do that and the no performance gain. The band day needs to be ripped all at the same time and people just fucking suck. I think a mini version of this happened with the old change where there were some players that just started fucking sucking when they couldn't build an old every fight or mid fight or whatever.
Death And Gaming (02:16:01.75)
No players don't, no rivals players don't care. It's the only community I've seen that spends more time in spawn than they do in game.
Yeah. Okay.
Okay. Yeah.
GragAlbert (02:16:23.952)
Yeah. I was gonna say one other thing about Invis before, I don't wanna harp on it too much, but I do, like we were talking about her shield and how broken she is in general, and I do think that shooting the shield is very effective, I think the shield is very strong, but I don't think it's the main reason why she's broken in my opinion. In my opinion, I think that she offers probably some of the best utility out of all the supports, while also having some of the highest healing output. And that's like, in theory, the slider you should be adjusting when balancing a strategist or like a support character in a game is like,
GALLUS (02:16:45.81)
Mm.
GragAlbert (02:16:54.01)
If they have a lot of utility, then they can have less healing, or if they have a shit ton of healing, they can have less utility. And like that should be a trade off in my opinion. And I feel like she doesn't really get that trade off. She has some of the best healing and burst healing output in the game, and then also some of the best utility. the ability to choose in a moment's notice if she needs to push or pull somebody, she could ground people, like, I don't know, she could block abilities, like, she just has too much utility paired with the healing output.
Coach Mills (02:17:13.804)
I'm... I mean I-
I mean I walked flank as Namor one time, double squid, ulted. This fucking Invis looked at me for a second, shot the squids, shielded up, was doing something completely different, fucking just completely ignored me. The shield tanked my ult, she's like healed her team for 10 seconds, turned around to me, shot me once, I bubbled, I popped out of bubble, she pulled me back in, she killed me. I was like, alright, what the fuck, like she gave no fucks about anything I was doing. Like not even a little bit, like nothing.
GragAlbert (02:17:31.634)
Ha!
Coach Mills (02:17:49.013)
I got you.
Death And Gaming (02:17:49.47)
There's also no one there to contest your own angle. And there's usually no one there ready to peel for you either. That's what it means. The game is balanced around the idea that everyone is playing their own selfish game. So that's what they balance the game around.
Coach Mills (02:17:58.008)
Right.
But Luna has to hit a skill shot on me. That's my problem is Luna has to hit a skill shot. This Invis doesn't have to do shit. She doesn't have to do anything.
Death And Gaming (02:18:07.062)
I agree. The self shield, yeah, I agree. The self shield should be reworked into an ability that actually makes it so you could predict it and outplay your opponent. I agree with that one.
Coach Mills (02:18:14.766)
Cause I love playing Luna. think Luna's really good right now.
GALLUS (02:18:15.282)
I know how to do that. I can fix that. You fucking revert the self-shield. Why can she self-shield? It broke the hero. The entire gameplay loop was destroyed by making her able to self-shield. Because also at the same time there was a shorter range for push and pull. So if you went to do a push and a pull, you were in a more risky position. When they introduced the self-shield, risky positions stopped existing. Which also meant having somewhere to double jump and thinking about doing that and turning invisible.
Death And Gaming (02:18:19.358)
yeah?
Coach Mills (02:18:21.55)
Yeah
Coach Mills (02:18:28.713)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (02:18:29.871)
You
Captain Coach (02:18:36.976)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:18:37.133)
Yeah.
GALLUS (02:18:44.829)
kind of became meaningless in the kit. As did looking for your other strategist to shield and get the healing off the shield yourself. Like all of that skill expression and being good at invis was burned out of the kit by introducing the cell shield. And as a result, now the shield heals herself less. So a good invis who was getting that healing gets less full stop. And she's just this like, it's just value. It's just value. She just gets the output she gets. And where is the player? Like.
Death And Gaming (02:19:13.858)
be fair, lot of Invis players were also upset at their own self-shield as far as I could tell. They even didn't understand they thought that she needed a nerf immediately afterwards as well.
Coach Mills (02:19:20.888)
Well, yeah, yeah, I saw Inviz players not generally like it. I also do think that the same Invizs that are complaining about it, though, would probably complain when it's gone. But I don't know. I just don't understand them giving that the first list.
Death And Gaming (02:19:26.424)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (02:19:34.875)
They'll be like, what are we going to do now? No, I actually like Galis's kind of where you're going with that. Maybe make her heels just like not heel enough past a certain point. Make her like this kind of like mid-range, but she's tanky. Like if you want to go that route, just something has got to give with her.
Death And Gaming (02:19:38.83)
I'm just.
Death And Gaming (02:19:51.8)
I may hit.
Am I
Captain Coach (02:19:58.499)
Hey, I can adapt, can they?
GALLUS (02:20:01.411)
Hehehehe
Death And Gaming (02:20:01.44)
I mean, I don't know, we'll have to see.
Coach Mills (02:20:04.046)
Like I said, I love support players. I don't love some Invis players. I'm just, I'm sorry. But anyway, wait, Okay, wait, real quick, real quick. We're gonna move on, but I wanna talk really quickly about Black Cat because world on the street is that Black Cat is actually like the strongest DPS in the game, secretly. How do y'all feel about that character not getting any nerfs? Do you think it's too soon for nerfs? Do you think that that character should?
Captain Coach (02:20:05.101)
I never see my envisions go off on side angles.
GALLUS (02:20:10.45)
I love support players. I love them all. I have no problem with supports.
GALLUS (02:20:26.652)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:20:32.898)
Cause the people that have figured that character out are running down lobbies. That's why this character is starting to get banned a lot. once you get to see one plus, like this character's banned in every game. Because if you let this character through, they're literally just bunny hopping your lobbies down and just fucking killing everybody. Now, do you think that that's like, we're kind of at level one where people have figured it out and they haven't maybe haven't figured out the counters. Or do you think like, we should just nip this in the bud, hot fix it like right now.
Death And Gaming (02:20:37.742)
pros.
Captain Coach (02:20:50.245)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:21:01.326)
How do you feel about it? What's y'all's thoughts?
GragAlbert (02:21:04.188)
I think it's fine to leave her out of this patch note. mean, in higher elo, she's like you said, she's gonna be banned anyway, and it's fine. I do think she's insanely good. It's just gonna take people a little bit of time to get used to her. She's a fairly complex character, because she has like, you know, six extra abilities. So I think it's okay to give the community a little bit of time. You know, with every patch note that we've read, we were always talking about, is this geared towards higher elo, lower elo, geared towards just adjusting the win rate?
And mean, I just think that there's no reason to even do any of that yet for her because most of the player base is still figuring her out. In high elo she's banned anyway, so I think it's okay. I do think she's extremely strong though, and I think she is probably the best DPS. Like if you play her to her potential, she might be the best DPS in the game right now. But a lot of people aren't doing that, so I think we're gonna just see some nerfs are probably in 8.5, and I think I'm okay with that. That's my take.
Coach Mills (02:21:52.914)
8.5. Okay, yeah, I could see that. I can see that. Okay. All right, let's talk about low-key.
GragAlbert (02:21:58.736)
did anyone else want to Black cat? I don't want to take the- Okay, okay, cool.
GALLUS (02:22:00.594)
I pretty much agree with that.
Captain Coach (02:22:00.667)
I agree.
Coach Mills (02:22:00.93)
No, you said everything I wanted to say, to be honest with you.
Captain Coach (02:22:04.879)
I mean, obviously she needs nerves, but yeah, you covered it. I mean, she definitely needs nerves. I don't think anyone disagrees with that.
GALLUS (02:22:04.976)
I think that's pretty much it.
GragAlbert (02:22:09.488)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:22:11.182)
Yeah, I feel like I don't understand. Oh yeah.
GALLUS (02:22:11.334)
Yeah, I think for stuff that could be broken, for stuff that could be broken, I don't think she's the worst thing out there like that we've had in the past. So like maybe waiting a patch I'm kind of cool with. I think the main thing that sticks out to her for me is iframes. I think iframes kind of, there's a bit of iframe creep. think, look, no one talks about it, but Star Lord of Magic I personally have a problem with because of the iframes.
GragAlbert (02:22:29.714)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (02:22:39.093)
shit.
Death And Gaming (02:22:39.278)
Really?
GALLUS (02:22:40.658)
I think the iframe windows are too wide. I think they're very forgiving. Like on a lot of heroes you lose shit loads of value because of the
GragAlbert (02:22:41.094)
My frames suck and... yeah.
Coach Mills (02:22:47.576)
You know what, you know why they're forgiving? Cause this game's on fucking, what is it, 60 bit or what is it called? Sissy ping or I forgot what it's called, tick, 60 tick. This game's on 60 tick. Yeah, it's just, it's fucking ass. If you don't make the iframes that liberal, you'll just fucking die on your screen when you clearly portal. That's the problem.
GALLUS (02:22:52.026)
Not true.
GragAlbert (02:22:54.226)
Is it low-tech server?
Death And Gaming (02:23:06.285)
Yeah.
GALLUS (02:23:06.374)
I'd like to see whatever the most minimal way they can shorten them. I want to see what that would look like. But for her, I think it's like low key, her survivability is also crazy. Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:23:12.494)
I.
GragAlbert (02:23:12.838)
Yeah, iframes are very frustrating.
Coach Mills (02:23:16.32)
It's very, yeah. I mean, she can, she can eye frame into fucking Invis into shield into like, she has a lot. She has so much.
Death And Gaming (02:23:18.478)
actually
GALLUS (02:23:24.902)
Yeah. Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:23:26.764)
Yeah, I do have something to add to the iframes and how forgiving stuff is, because this is something, as a dev, I feel like I can speak on a little bit. A lot of people say that the game is catered to casuals, and I don't believe that. I think a lot of the game is more forgiving not because of who they're catering to, but because of the experience of their own team. If we're talking about Blizzard, Blizzard's been making PvP games for decades. They know how to do the netcode and everything.
GALLUS (02:23:51.366)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:23:54.114)
How do you balance around the idea that you don't quite have the same experience as Blizzard? Well, especially when you're dealing with internet pings all over the world, well, you generally make collisions and hitboxes or things a bit more forgiving. So I think the reason why you have those iframes and stuff the way that they are is because of the fact that it wasn't ever meant to be like, this is supposed to be easy. This was the best that this was what they could do with the team that they had. And I think that they did a really good job.
Maybe they can change things later to tighten it up or something. that's something I want to push back of whenever people hear this stuff, like, it's just too easy or whatnot. But it's to be forgiving so that way when you're playing, you're not frustrated. And I think that's an important thing to remember when it comes to these things.
Coach Mills (02:24:37.422)
I agree. Can we fix no rigs for this exact same thing? because they hit me a lot and I always get tilted when I get no rigged. Okay, wait, wait. Let's move on to Loki. So they said that they're going to lean him more into the support role, allowing for more reliable healing, but less damage. So his mystic missile healing ratio goes from 90 back to 100. But the damage ratio goes from 90 to 80. This is for his clothes.
GALLUS (02:24:38.226)
Hmm.
Death And Gaming (02:24:40.778)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:24:47.414)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:25:07.246)
So his clones are gonna do, mean, like remember OG Loki was just 100, 100. Now they nerfed it down to 90, 90. And now it is back to 100 healing. I mean, this kind of encourages you to be a heal bot more. I mean, you get, you're gonna be able to generate more ult charge by being a heal bot. What do y'all think about this change? This seems kind of strange.
Death And Gaming (02:25:32.302)
This is an overall net nerf to Loki, in my opinion, because damage is how you carry as a support, and with this also being changed, seems like an overall pretty decent sized nerf.
Coach Mills (02:25:35.628)
Yes, 100%.
Coach Mills (02:25:43.362)
Yeah, it was really hard to get his ult anyways. Like it's pretty expensive. Like Loki definitely felt the ult nerf.
Death And Gaming (02:25:47.363)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:25:51.234)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (02:25:52.943)
I think he needed a nerf to his ult. I think the ult nerf is like a good change. think forcing him into more of a healer is fine, but it's going to be less annoying to play against, I think, as a diver, which is something to think about. I think I would still like to see down the road having different versions of every hero to see a version of Loki that isn't a healer, but still has more or less the same abilities and is more of a damage dealer. Maybe the
the clones will do 10 % of his damage is healing, but are mostly for damage, you know? And I could see the local world where that would be a thing, which I would definitely be something I support. Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:26:32.268)
I see, I see what saying. you could slide that and make him damage dealer. Yeah, it's just very odd because I feel like right now, Loki, I don't really understand. So I just don't understand the reasoning for this, I guess. Once again, I keep running into this problem where I don't understand the reason for them changing this. Like I do understand that Loki gets banned a lot right now. It's almost always because of Gambit or triple support like Mantis Ultron. So I just don't really get the...
They're also, in combination with this, I forgot, they're increasing his ult charge from 4,300 to 4,500. I don't really know why. Like, was Loki dominating just as Loki? I don't really understand. I mean, he's good.
GALLUS (02:27:05.84)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (02:27:13.946)
I think he's pretty strong support. I mean, he's got good survivability, his lamps are like another ultimate. Regardless of these patch notes, think Loki has just always been a very good support because also, whatever support ult is best, depending on bans, depending on the meta, you get two of them. So his ult will always be amazing no matter what the meta is.
Death And Gaming (02:27:14.145)
One race.
Coach Mills (02:27:28.622)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (02:27:36.39)
I don't know, yeah, I think the nerf is fine for him, because he is always good. I don't know if this is gonna feel like so bad for Loki players. I don't play Loki enough to really give a fair assessment on it, but.
Coach Mills (02:27:45.23)
No, it won't. It won't. It just feels kind of odd to not nerf Gambit, not really nerf Invis, and then nerf Loki out of the three. It just feels a little strange. What do I know? Once again, I'm just trying to figure out their justification for it, that's all. I don't really understand.
Death And Gaming (02:28:01.73)
Am I crazy? I seen less Loki's this season than before? I feel like I've been seeing other supports.
Coach Mills (02:28:06.318)
I very rarely see Loki. I very rarely see Loki. Yeah, I mean, I would like to see, I personally love the offensive part of Loki. I would like to see them double that down. I would like to see the opposite of this, where the healing's 70 % and the damage is just as much 100. I would like to see that, because I like the idea of...
GALLUS (02:28:06.694)
Yeah, I felt that as well.
Death And Gaming (02:28:10.134)
Yeah, because he's still he's still a solid support if you can play Loki, but like I just haven't seen him as much.
GALLUS (02:28:20.764)
Exactly.
Coach Mills (02:28:31.99)
I can play Loki in a dive and I can shoot at the people that my team is diving. Like I like that personally, but.
Captain Coach (02:28:36.505)
Lower is passive healing by a lot, maybe down to 50%, but a kill gets you reset on your lamps, maybe? Something like that? Or a back stab? You got to get a kill, though. You got to play the game.
Coach Mills (02:28:43.272)
shit.
Death And Gaming (02:28:44.428)
No, no, no, no. I do not need more lamps. No, Let's not.
GragAlbert (02:28:44.498)
That would be crazy, that would be crazy.
GALLUS (02:28:46.579)
No. Let's not do that.
Coach Mills (02:28:48.366)
Yeah, no infinite lens fuck you Psylocke fuck you that infinite lamp. Oh, yeah Psylocke also did not get nerfed. No, I'm just kidding Psylocke's not even top of the menu anymore with fucking star Lord jumping her Okay. All right. Let's let's talk about mantis because this is probably the craziest change in the patch So now the damage boost doesn't give 12 % damage boost It gives eight instead, but it gives a flat a hundred movement speed, which is about 12 %
GALLUS (02:29:01.021)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (02:29:17.004)
movement speed for most characters. yeah, they did this because they wanted to give her a uniqueness because Ultron gave that damage buff, even though Ultron also does give a movement buff, doesn't he? Yeah, I was like, makes no sense, but this scares the shit out of me, by the way. This...
GALLUS (02:29:28.914)
They're now more similar, yeah.
GragAlbert (02:29:31.847)
What?
Captain Coach (02:29:32.336)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:29:36.334)
This one's scary. Movement is scary.
GragAlbert (02:29:37.968)
Yeah, Mantis Ultron, Mantis Ultron triple support comps are going, you might not even need triple support low key, like if you have an aggressive enough team comp, you might be able to make it work with two. It's crazy, crazy comp.
Coach Mills (02:29:46.702)
Hear me out, just straight up goats. Did you play Overwatch, Greg? I don't know if you came from Overwatch.
GragAlbert (02:29:53.074)
Not really during like peak overwatch that's kind of why I got addicted to rivals because I missed peak overwatch and I viewed this as like My second opportunity to re-experience it
Coach Mills (02:29:55.874)
What? shit. Well, in Overwatch, there was a composition that basically was the most powerful composition for almost two years, and it was GOATS. It was triple tank, triple support, and...
GragAlbert (02:30:09.178)
I do remember Goats, and I remember the main reason why I so OP was because of Brig, right? She came in and broke the game.
Coach Mills (02:30:13.826)
Well, she did, but there was a character that already existed that made that comp possible, and it was Lucio. Lucio was the character that sped your entire team. This is not quite that because you don't give speed to everyone around you. You have to still target people, but the idea that you can speed boost three tanks around the corner to bridge the gap, giving Brawl the capability to close in a gap is pretty fucking strong.
GragAlbert (02:30:20.792)
yes.
GALLUS (02:30:42.246)
Yeah, Mantis is going to be the easiest way to do it. Like even Storm, it's not as easy on her because she's kind of a sitting duck.
GragAlbert (02:30:42.31)
Yeah, that makes sense.
Coach Mills (02:30:45.452)
Yeah, yeah. like I'm very afraid of a composition of like triple tank with a Mantis and an Ultron. And you just have like lots of ways to give area heals and speed. And it's just like, you could just get run up on like straight up run up on. And I, I, I'm just horrified of it. Like I'm legit horrified of it. Like it seems like it could be extremely busted. Yeah. Yeah. It seems scary.
Captain Coach (02:31:05.593)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (02:31:07.27)
Dino Hulk thing with Mantis
Captain Coach (02:31:09.747)
I like the idea behind this change. think that a flat damage boost definitely benefits characters that don't really have to put themselves at risk. They can kind of just stay at a range and just be very oppressive with just like constant, you know, firing of your primary, right? Like the melee heroes don't, because by that half the time of the damage boost is up, you have to use that time to actually get in, right? So I...
Death And Gaming (02:31:10.158)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:31:34.048)
that's a good point. This, this yeah, it actually makes sense.
Captain Coach (02:31:37.559)
I like the idea behind it. does make certain comps less oppressive, but my big problem with it is it's still over tuned. So the idea behind the change, good. The movement speed taking out of the damage is fine, but the movement speed should be like 50 and the damage should be like 5%. It's still too much. It's still too much.
Coach Mills (02:31:53.73)
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're talking about, maybe not 50, but yeah. No, I see what you're saying because this effect definitely doesn't really help poke characters nearly as much. Like it actually is much worse for poke characters. Like brawl characters get the most benefit from the movement, right?
Captain Coach (02:32:09.817)
Yeah, this is a buff in more situations than not in my opinion, which is not really what you wanted to see for Mantis. I mean, I'd be open to hear someone who disagrees, but I think this is overall buff.
Death And Gaming (02:32:10.306)
problem dive, yeah?
Death And Gaming (02:32:15.491)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:32:19.596)
Yeah, I mean, she said, I mean, I guess we're shifting her from a poke slop enabler to like a poke slop and a dive, a bra slop enabler, bra slop dive, slop enabler. I've been, I've been saying for a while that Mantis is bannable. Like I think at 7.5, you should have had Mantis on like, like a lot of people should ban her cause she, she enables. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like people still don't ban her enough. Like I think she should legitimately be like first pick ban, like in a lot of games, cause she just enables some
Captain Coach (02:32:26.715)
Brawl Slop.
GragAlbert (02:32:39.182)
I see her banned fairly often. Not as often as others, but yeah.
Coach Mills (02:32:49.142)
Unless you're specifically trying to play like a Groot triple comp, like then fine, you can keep her open, but.
Captain Coach (02:32:55.685)
She's gonna be more fun, too.
GragAlbert (02:32:56.946)
I think the reason people don't ban her is because you don't have any strategist playing anyways, so how are gonna get three people to run a tournament? I don't know. I feel like I just get really unlucky though. I feel like other people have very different experiences than me. They're like, oh, we have like four supports this game, triple support every game. I'm like, bro, I have on average 0.5 supports per game on my team. That's probably it. That's probably it. I just, I'm auto-filling every fucking game. It's crazy.
Coach Mills (02:32:57.153)
Yeah?
GALLUS (02:33:02.002)
Yeah
Captain Coach (02:33:02.979)
Right. That's true.
Coach Mills (02:33:04.478)
Yeah, I guess that's fair.
Coach Mills (02:33:17.134)
Yeah, it's cause you didn't buy, you didn't buy enough skins before your game. You know what I'm saying? Uh oh. I'm not going to pretend I know exactly what this change is going to do, but I will say that it scares me more than most, like almost every other change besides the Starler change in this patch. It has the highest chance of like breaking the game out of all the changes in the patch.
Death And Gaming (02:33:20.622)
All players need to start buying them skins.
GragAlbert (02:33:40.25)
It's a pretty big variable added in, yeah, this movement speed boost. This is huge.
GALLUS (02:33:40.646)
Yeah. I will say, I will say like flying heroes is like, think like human torch now with a speed boost like that. Yeah. Like I kind of torch Ultron again, like
Death And Gaming (02:33:44.142)
Speed is the one thing in Heroes 2 is different.
GragAlbert (02:33:53.414)
That's a good point, yeah.
Coach Mills (02:33:55.246)
I see you saying yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:33:57.058)
with the damage too.
GragAlbert (02:33:57.092)
Imagine Iron Man with a hundred extra movement speed beaming you like...
GALLUS (02:34:00.274)
Like actually though like like he'll hurt he'll have damage and speed and he's tankier when he's doing that like no joke That could actually be a thing
Coach Mills (02:34:02.126)
No, I mean we just got a run I'm telling you I guess we need to run the deals bro I'll damage boost your fucking your or speed boost your goddamn mr. Fent. Let's run it down, baby Let's run it the fuck down. I'm telling you that shit's gonna be insane. It's gonna be so fun
GALLUS (02:34:16.764)
Yes bro, please. Please, I need a mantis pocket. Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:34:16.94)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (02:34:17.532)
Hahaha!
GragAlbert (02:34:22.002)
Yeah, dude. Mantis boosting and giving him a leaf as well when he gets more HP, you know, when he's in his thing.
Coach Mills (02:34:26.9)
yeah, I'll be in there too. I'll give you an out if you need it now and then we I then I'll flake flake back in let's go like that's it. No, that seems that seems incredible. All right. All right We we brought the exponent on rocket death to talk about the rocket change because these are these are pretty these are pretty substantial. yeah One extra damage on his projectile. He shoots really fucking fast though. So it's deceptively a lot he has
GALLUS (02:34:28.048)
Yeah. Hell yeah.
GALLUS (02:34:33.956)
Hehehehe
GragAlbert (02:34:35.218)
You
GragAlbert (02:34:40.388)
Rocket buffs! Yeah!
Death And Gaming (02:34:40.59)
I am the expert here. No, no, no, no, I'm the expert here. I'm going to fight on that one.
Captain Coach (02:34:41.371)
We got a lot of rocket players in here.
GALLUS (02:34:42.096)
My man.
GragAlbert (02:34:53.52)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:34:53.934)
Two more ammo in his heal and his ultimate is 300 down. You also gotta think about more uptime and more damage. He's actually gonna build his ultimate even faster than that. So what are your thoughts on all these changes combined? And how do you feel about Rocket in the ecosystem of all the supports?
Death And Gaming (02:35:11.214)
Rocket is still always like pretty powerful. I still have a high win rate on him and this will make him even stronger. It'll make me win even more games playing him. But the problem is, is he still not going to be fun to play because when you're playing Rocket against Black Cat, Daredevil, know, all these BP, all of these heroes that can just insta-burst you and you're just kind of like you can barely crawl on the walls anymore. It's not fun.
Coach Mills (02:35:27.343)
You
Death And Gaming (02:35:39.98)
You know, this doesn't change anything about how he's played. doesn't make him more fun. It's just going to be the benefit to the benefit to his team for the most part. Like the damage is like, OK, I guess that's nice. But still, once again, like we talked about in the other podcast, like just make it so I can go from right click to left click a little bit faster and give me my wall crawl speed back and nerf the res beacon because this still doesn't this still doesn't address any of the parts that make him not fun to play. And that that's what I hate about like
GALLUS (02:35:57.148)
Yes.
Coach Mills (02:36:07.938)
Yeah, no, no, no, no,
Death And Gaming (02:36:08.642)
because people are going look at the stats and be like, rocket's so strong. It's like, right, something strong doesn't necessarily mean it's fun. And that's why I have an issue with this.
Coach Mills (02:36:13.002)
Yeah, yeah. I guess that makes sense. The res beacon is just inflating his win rate, but doesn't actually make your user experience any better. Like at all, legit at all.
Death And Gaming (02:36:19.651)
Yeah. There's nothing, I don't enjoy the res beacon. Like, you know, and.
GALLUS (02:36:21.842)
No.
GALLUS (02:36:25.959)
it seriously may as well be a passive in AOE around him. Like there shouldn't be an active part of it at this point. It's like the res beacon is not fun for anybody involved. Like.
Captain Coach (02:36:30.661)
Mm-hmm.
Death And Gaming (02:36:32.418)
Yeah. No. Yeah, I end every.
GragAlbert (02:36:35.738)
I agree.
Coach Mills (02:36:37.004)
Let him, let him throw down a wall. I'm telling you, that'd be super sick. What if you could throw down a wall? Just sprout up a raw, a little piece of cover or any, any, any gadget, any gadget would be sick. Any gadget. Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:36:41.442)
Just give me another gadget. Yeah.
Captain Coach (02:36:46.139)
They should do a team-wide teleportation thing could be cool. Like that you put down and then you can, like if you need a quick escape that anyone could walk through, or like Black Cat kind of has, could be, that's rockety. Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:36:52.735)
like a telly? Like sim. Yeah, like sim in Overwatch.
GALLUS (02:36:56.402)
True, yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:36:58.35)
It'd be interesting. Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:36:59.854)
There's all kinds of cool little tech things you could do with Rocket, really.
Death And Gaming (02:37:04.524)
Yeah, I mean, because he's a guy, because he tinkers with gadgets, like, I feel like the design team has a ton of possibilities. And it's just really disappointing that, you know, he feels so clunky and terrible now. And we keep buffing all of the parts that are just like the least interesting parts of his kit.
GragAlbert (02:37:12.773)
Infinite.
Coach Mills (02:37:20.587)
What if there was a like, you know how like everyone gets like team ups like, you know, like the Bucky the Bucky fucking cap team up and there's like all these little team ups What if there was a beacon you threw down that dropped an item? So it's kind of like res beacon, but it drops an item that is literally an ability like just a team up like and then anyone can grab it and just use it you grab it you walk over there you grab it you use it, know, it's like a one-time use
Death And Gaming (02:37:35.278)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (02:37:40.4)
i they they have the precedent for it you know it's it's basically the jump pack except just more complex
Coach Mills (02:37:44.0)
Right. Right, but it could be something offensive, you know? It could be something that allows for playmaking.
GALLUS (02:37:44.86)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (02:37:47.195)
So you're saying my Spider-Man could get Atom Res and then into even more?
GALLUS (02:37:52.902)
You
Coach Mills (02:37:52.928)
No, no, no, no, no, no, that strong like like something, know, like just something maybe it's like a barrel roll or fucking it's a maybe it's a jetpack like, you know, like a dash but you could put it on any kid like you're his Hulk and go grab it and then like jump but then like dash and like dodge a bullshit, you know, or or you jump it you try to jump out the invest has to pull you and then you dash out of the pool, you know, like something coming kind of cool. I don't know that's Okay, well you gotta say like that, okay
Captain Coach (02:38:15.437)
All for more strategy for the strategists. All for that.
GALLUS (02:38:18.897)
Yep.
Death And Gaming (02:38:21.347)
Listen, listen, I don't want to hear from people who don't have support in their top three most played about how to play support today. I'm not going to stand for it.
GragAlbert (02:38:23.378)
I'm excited for the rocket.
Coach Mills (02:38:25.838)
He plays he plays he he plays his third most played is definitely rocket
GragAlbert (02:38:27.878)
Ha ha ha!
Death And Gaming (02:38:33.294)
Fourth most played is for Captain Coach and ask him what his all-time win rate is. Because I'll bring it. I am.
Coach Mills (02:38:35.106)
Yeah, Kept it goes. no. No, he might be on his phone. He might be on his phone and drinking at the same time.
Captain Coach (02:38:35.695)
Wait, I- I'm clean on Rocket. I'm clean.
GragAlbert (02:38:39.578)
Every tank main plays Rocket.
Death And Gaming (02:38:42.158)
Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, no. Every Tank main fills to rocket occasionally. You don't play rocket. All right, this is where I'm gonna actually like fight you guys on this one because everyone sits there and says, oh, rocket, all you do is sit back and hold right click. And everybody is like, oh, if you play rocket, you can just get boosted. But I've looked at your guys's win rates on rocket and they're negative. I am the only one with a positive win rate on rocket.
GragAlbert (02:38:46.93)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Coach Mills (02:38:50.702)
You
Captain Coach (02:39:03.151)
Bye!
Coach Mills (02:39:04.789)
Captain Coach (02:39:05.915)
I had 80 % when I hit the eternity last season on rocket. That was on my main account. I don't know, man. I had about, I think I had like 10 or 11, but yeah, I play rocket when I'm feeling obviously.
Coach Mills (02:39:10.414)
Well, how'd it get you? I said play it to your case. Yeah, you had that.
GALLUS (02:39:10.758)
He played two games.
Death And Gaming (02:39:13.112)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (02:39:13.286)
Hahaha!
GALLUS (02:39:15.878)
you
Death And Gaming (02:39:16.428)
Yeah. I... Yeah.
GragAlbert (02:39:19.856)
Yeah, I'm happy for any rocket buffs I can get to make it so that when I am filling I'm less of a liability. So that's my stuff.
Coach Mills (02:39:24.89)
My problem is like, if I climb into a high rank on a support, if I climb to a high rank on a support, y'all would say that, you just did it on Gambit, DPSing or Mantis or like Jeff being aggressive. Like I just don't, don't, I don't really like playing any passive character. And it's not, that's not really a mark against supports because there are aggressive supports, but like I don't even like playing Mag or like I want to play like, I want to play a proactive character. Like I want to play like a, just in general. Like I just want to take an angle and shoot things.
Captain Coach (02:39:25.528)
Yeah, dude.
GragAlbert (02:39:44.146)
think Rocket can be very aggressive.
Death And Gaming (02:39:48.878)
I think that legitimately, legitimately, like you can play Rocket proactively, but I think that the community always harping on like Rocket being a simple, easy character that's just supposed to heal bot is also part of the problem because I play Rocket very proactively and Captain Coach, when we play, you know this, when you're diving, I'm diving with you. Like you, there's a Punisher, I'll fight with you. you get pulled in, I'm gonna Rocket ult you. Like you can play.
GragAlbert (02:40:03.496)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:40:15.181)
rocket absolutely proactively and you should. That's the reason why I have such a high win rate on him. But most people like, yeah, you can sit back and hold right click and there's a chance that you're going to get carried. And that's how what's usually is going to happen. You're coin flipping that way. But like all of these characters which are seen as passive, you can be proactive with them, but people just don't do it. And that's my issue when like when people start talking about supports and how they're supposed to heal bot. I'm like, you're never going to carry, you know, as a support if you heal bot.
GALLUS (02:40:34.823)
Mm.
Death And Gaming (02:40:43.374)
That's just not, it's not going to happen. You're going to coin flip and like maybe you can get really good at it. But for the most part, if you want to, if you want a 55 to 60 % win rate as a support, you have to be active.
Coach Mills (02:40:53.592)
Yeah, I I also, I honestly agree that this is a problem with supports and all roles. Like people are super passive on like Magneto and they think that like them playing Magneto and just sitting frontline and never taking space aggressively or like pushing for a kill or making a proactive play like they deserve to win. It's like, no, you have to actually, you have to actually do something. Like, yeah, I could actually make a play or make a, take an advantage that's there. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree with that.
GragAlbert (02:41:18.89)
Maybe the ult charge decrease will inspire people to be more proactive with their ults too instead of like reactive.
Death And Gaming (02:41:25.166)
I'm telling you right now that that one is a crazy one to me. I was already doing really well with the fast ult charge, with it being even faster now. You get that, you rip it right away. I'm telling you.
Captain Coach (02:41:28.441)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (02:41:31.484)
Same.
Coach Mills (02:41:33.506)
Hey, here's, you might be able to just hard farm off the dino, like on damage, like on damage, and just, like in.
GragAlbert (02:41:35.93)
Yeah. And I think people will... Yeah, that too? Yeah, true, true.
Death And Gaming (02:41:40.136)
yeah. yeah. Wait, wait. Wait, wait. Mills, next season, I'll play Rocky, you play Dino. Why'd you just keep ripping that back and forth?
GALLUS (02:41:41.867)
Yeah, this
GragAlbert (02:41:47.378)
You just go main for like half a second and Rocket has his ult already.
Coach Mills (02:41:47.47)
Oh yeah, okay, let's go. Oh, that's actually fucking nuts. I'm gonna be the biggest old battery of all time. Let's fucking go.
Death And Gaming (02:41:51.245)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (02:41:56.556)
And that's good though, it'll also differentiate like healbotting rockets that are just waiting with their ult versus proactive good rockets. Like I think seeing an ult change like that is good because again, people who are more aggressive and proactive with their ults on rocket will be rewarded since they're gonna have more uptime on the ults now. So, I like that change.
Coach Mills (02:42:12.268)
Yeah, yeah. just think like rocket, rocket ult is like, it's, that's a big skill, like a point of skill expression. Like it's really, I'm fine with that being a very common rocket ult. Like it's fine. Like, or rocket ult being up commonly. Cause it's not like a lot of other defensive ults that are just like, or it's not like other support ults that are purely defensive. You have to time it right. Or it can just get completely countered. Cause how many rockets like pop ult in the neutral when their Luna has an ult and then they just mirror and kill it. Like it happens way too often at all ranks.
GragAlbert (02:42:33.692)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:42:33.709)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:42:40.396)
Yeah, you can't mirror that. Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:42:41.71)
Yeah. so, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or you have like a combo. Yeah. But you have to kind of get a feel for it. Like you've got to, you you got to feel out your team. Right. Okay. Let's talk about the final character. We could mention the team ups. They're not that important. We'll talk about White Fox. So basically what they did here is now
GragAlbert (02:42:43.77)
Unless you're super coordinated and you're all calling the same targets, like... Then you can. Yeah, yeah, but it's tough.
feel out your team, see if they're invested enough to want to coordinate that much, typically no.
Coach Mills (02:43:10.858)
In White Fox forum, when you actually hit, so like when you actually hit people, you're getting less heals, less burst heals. But.
Death And Gaming (02:43:19.367)
This is their melee form,
GragAlbert (02:43:21.381)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:43:22.382)
when you're, so yeah, increase healing amount provided by the surrounding or during Fox form awakening from 25 to 35. And then reduce the burst healing generated by each successful attack during Fox form awakening from 35 to 25. So basically the Fox form awaken state, you need to be constant, like it's gonna give you constant healing more, but when you're actually hitting, it's not gonna give you as much burst.
Cause there was some situations where like a fox was able to just sustain through like a ton, like a lot of hits.
GragAlbert (02:43:56.038)
You could literally sit there and just tank some, like, most dive heroes if you're able to brawl somebody.
Coach Mills (02:43:59.067)
Right, right, right, right, right, right, right.
Captain Coach (02:43:59.227)
Pretty.
Pretty sure you're still gonna be able to do that. It's only 10 healing per second at like max uptime. Most of the time you don't even get any max uptime. So this is to me a buff and it's a buff to our passive healing, really.
Death And Gaming (02:44:02.125)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:44:06.466)
Right.
And then, yeah.
GragAlbert (02:44:11.696)
The passive healing is going to be impactful, especially also for like lower rank or newer White Fox players who might not be as good at like tracking and brawling and potentially just like popping it at the wrong time. They're going to get more default value out of it for sure, which maybe is a good thing. I don't know. What's the play rate on White Fox? Did we like need more White Fox players? Maybe? I don't know. I definitely know she, I definitely think she's one of the best supports, but do people, is she popular though? I think she is. Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:44:18.798)
That's good.
Coach Mills (02:44:30.166)
Now this character is busted.
Captain Coach (02:44:31.811)
She's like, what, top three support?
Death And Gaming (02:44:32.15)
Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, top three. Yeah. Yep. Goja's right. She's the number three spot.
Captain Coach (02:44:35.963)
Yeah. Yeah. yeah.
GragAlbert (02:44:43.44)
See, I'm trying, cause now you got me thinking the same way, Mills, about like, I like to think, I enjoy thinking about what is the reasoning behind this patch, right? Like, it's a good question to ask.
Coach Mills (02:44:50.656)
Right. Yeah, mostly this. if I think of yeah, I think I think mostly this I think it's just trying to get rid of some of the super frustrating like brawl trades that you could have with White Fox where it feels like you should have an advantage. But the second she stabilizes even for a moment and then continues the brawl against you, she just doesn't die. So I think that's what they're kind of trying to get rid of. But, you know, you can also just use the form to like sometimes just get out of like long
GragAlbert (02:45:10.919)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:45:11.128)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:45:20.428)
long range damage, you know, cause it's going to have the, the, the extra 10 per second.
Captain Coach (02:45:24.985)
I mean, she's more forgiving to play when you're playing safe. I mean, she's safer, you get more healing, and she gets more healing with her ult. This is a buff on a character that, in my opinion, didn't need it. I think it was directed at lower rank white foxes, because I think they know she's a popular hero, and in higher ranks, she's probably getting abused a little bit, so they're trying to shift the power a little bit. Again, though, I just think if you're going to...
Coach Mills (02:45:29.624)
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Captain Coach (02:45:48.229)
target a hero like this, why do you need to overall buffer? Why can't we actually do a real reallocation instead of just giving her free 20 healing on her ult out of nowhere? Like where did that come from? Just throw that in, why not? It's like.
Coach Mills (02:45:58.69)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, actually, that's a good point. Like this, this top part, I think is reasonable, but this does like, it just feels tacked, it's a tacked buff.
GragAlbert (02:45:59.59)
Ha ha!
Captain Coach (02:46:03.899)
It's reasonable, yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:46:04.214)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (02:46:06.747)
And then it's just like...
GragAlbert (02:46:06.994)
Wait, the blessed by the nine healing, that's the right click during ult, right? Or no? Okay, just wanna make sure. It's not the each stomp. It's specifically the right clicks that you target your allies with.
GALLUS (02:46:10.535)
Yeah.
GALLUS (02:46:16.53)
It's the, tails, yeah, that you send out.
GragAlbert (02:46:20.272)
So I mean, maybe they're just doing that because I feel like most people, myself included, I feel like the visibility of that right click doing anything feels low. Like when you're ulting as white fox, do you even notice who she's right clicking? I don't. So maybe they're just trying to give more vis, I mean, they could have done it a different way by maybe giving it a different effect or doing something, but I could see why they're going for something like that because I do think it's very unnoticeable right now. Like when she is ulting, I see her, she's big, I see her stomping and healing, but I don't know who she's blessing with this
buff. seems like unimpactful, but maybe maybe it's just skill issue. I don't know.
Coach Mills (02:46:54.764)
I think that there was an argument to be made that this character needed a nerf going into this patch and she got a buff instead. Now, I'm not going to argue that she needed a nerf when they buffed Phoenix and buffed Star-Lord and didn't really nerf Invis and didn't nerf Gambit and like there's like seven things that they should have hit.
GragAlbert (02:46:59.516)
Yeah, that's true.
Captain Coach (02:47:01.819)
Mm-hmm.
Captain Coach (02:47:05.463)
I am. I definitely am.
Death And Gaming (02:47:06.84)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (02:47:12.443)
She's the best 1v1-er in the game. She's even better than in Viz.
Coach Mills (02:47:15.276)
Yeah, but like this made her a little worse at 1v1ing, which I think is like... Like before, like I could actually kill her as Thor, but if I missed a single lightning like on her, I actually lose the duel. I probably could miss two lightnings on her now and probably win the duel most likely. I need to test that, but...
Captain Coach (02:47:18.555)
True. Yeah, true.
Death And Gaming (02:47:20.931)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:47:34.05)
think that top paragraph, like you said, like it makes sense. It's that second line that you're just kind of kind of curious about. you know, she seems like she was like probably one of the more balanced support still, other than that like that one v one ability to like brawl you. But like I said, that it seems like that's what they're trying to address with the first paragraph.
Coach Mills (02:47:39.374)
B
Captain Coach (02:47:51.107)
She, the problem with this, the 10 healing reduce is you needed two full people with full uptime on her to even burst through anyway. So she's still going to be able to one V one people, no problem. It's just, you kill her with two people or with the damage imp in one? So she's still going to be able to do all the broken stuff. Now she's just better in games where it's too risky to go in. Now she's going to have more options. This is a buff at all ranks. It's a terrible change. I think this is one of the, probably the worst change of the patch, honestly. This is, this is.
Coach Mills (02:47:52.974)
just gonna keep nodding.
Death And Gaming (02:48:18.307)
Really?
Coach Mills (02:48:18.734)
I wouldn't go that far, I do. I do agree. I don't really think that they should have. I think that they should have just done this top change and nothing else most likely. Or honestly, you could have done this top change and then you could have just made the hit 25 and then that's it. Like just a nerf. So like not compensate with like more healing just passively, just keep them both at 25. Like, and just nerf her that way. Like make it so she does only gets 25 on hit and then just keep it 25 passive and.
Captain Coach (02:48:20.633)
I think it's, yeah, no. She did not need buffs.
Coach Mills (02:48:48.012)
gave her no buffs to her ult and I think she's still a top three support in the game, like to be honest with
GALLUS (02:48:52.487)
Yeah, I don't know man. This is like a it's a it's like a skill floor Like they need to be able to keep themselves always able to sustain through everything I don't know just throw in some like three unknown characters make them heal bots so you can have characters stay Distinct like I don't really see the point in the like the passive self heal aspect of the melee form Like that's what we're But it can feel sharp like the heroes unique because of that like
Captain Coach (02:49:09.882)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:49:18.35)
eeee
Captain Coach (02:49:21.563)
She has better life steal than Blade.
GragAlbert (02:49:23.633)
Ha ha!
Death And Gaming (02:49:24.206)
Yeah, that's a whole nother conversation. Poor Blade. How did Blade still not get nothing?
Captain Coach (02:49:24.987)
What are we doing?
Coach Mills (02:49:25.294)
Wait, wait, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Now that we're talking, okay. Real quick, I just want to talk about this real quick and then let's talk about, okay, Dino, Dino writing, that's cool. But this one is the, is this the shield? Is this the, this is the, just doesn't matter.
GragAlbert (02:49:29.916)
Yeah, where's Blade in these fashion notes for real?
Death And Gaming (02:49:41.931)
the ice wall right? Yeah I believe so.
GragAlbert (02:49:43.026)
This is her ice wall, right?
GALLUS (02:49:44.508)
Dude.
GragAlbert (02:49:46.278)
With the fact that, I don't know, the fact that Emma got buffed, like in the patch house, and gets this, she's gonna feel like group 2.0, bro.
Coach Mills (02:49:50.646)
I actually think Ice Wall is surprisingly annoying to play against if you're playing like the thing. Like I played the thing and it's like a group wall where if you try to disengage you just get walled off, it's mad annoying. But anyways, okay, I wanna talk. No.
GALLUS (02:49:51.654)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (02:50:04.978)
It's not that insignificant of a change too, like 9 meters to 12 meters, what is that? That's like a 33 % increase or... Yeah, I mean...
GALLUS (02:50:10.418)
Yeah, question for you guys, you might know. When you like pull the crystal out of someone, when you use the team up on that crystal, it almost instantly kills it. I thought that was a broken interaction. Is that still in the game? Cause I remember testing that in the early access and then I tested it a few weeks later, it was still there. Like you could kind of one shot people with the team up. Is that still a thing?
Coach Mills (02:50:11.522)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, it's, it's, and, you get to match it further away. Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:50:26.476)
I've been I've been tested it.
Death And Gaming (02:50:34.658)
Wait, you can do that? Wait, so you just pull out the crystal and use the wall and it breaks it?
GragAlbert (02:50:38.162)
Pretty sure.
GALLUS (02:50:38.738)
If you pull the crystal and throw the wall at it, it almost instantly kills the crystal. Like, depends, there's weird interactions with if they're full health, it leaves the crystal on 1 HP.
Coach Mills (02:50:44.782)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that does do that.
GragAlbert (02:50:45.106)
Remember that.
Captain Coach (02:50:47.301)
All right.
Captain Coach (02:50:51.685)
Are you sure it's not just them comboing off the wall with like a kick and stacking the damage, you know, the one shot combo? Are you sure it's not that?
GALLUS (02:50:57.112)
you know what, you know what, actually give me a minute. I'm going to open the game and test it and then like maybe move on. Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:51:01.238)
Okay, okay, okay.
GALLUS (02:51:05.874)
Like go into the next thing.
Captain Coach (02:51:07.139)
Is Plight, I have a, the rank one Emma was in my chat earlier. I wonder if he's still here. I'll get to ask him.
Coach Mills (02:51:07.276)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's, let's, let's,
Coach Mills (02:51:12.654)
I wanna get everyone's review on the patch notes from a letter grade. A plus being the best you possibly can have, F being the worst patch that you've seen, period, like out of every single patch. What is y'all's grade? You can do plus minus two at the end of it. I wanna start off with you, Death. What's your grade? Your letter grade for 8.0.
Captain Coach (02:51:22.831)
Walled Dale's damage.
Death And Gaming (02:51:36.546)
Hmm.
Death And Gaming (02:51:40.59)
I think I just give it like a C. There's some balance adjustments that are kind of like tweaking where damage is and where strengths are at. Some are interesting and some are just kind of like, given a little buff to Moon Knight and Squirrel Girl, like that stuff is fine. But the lack of a direct nerf to Daredevil or Gambit's ults or actually addressing some of the main hitters.
Like I can understand not really touching Black Cat. She's new still, and they kind of just like waiting and see. But there's a lot of really impressive stuff that is still going to be the same thing going into the next season. A lot of the bands are still going to be the same. I'd say a C. There's some stuff in there that I agree with, and there's some other stuff that just kind of like, I think overall, the stuff that's in there is semi-OK, but it's the stuff that they left out that I have an issue with.
Coach Mills (02:52:21.304)
You said, you said C, you said C? C, okay.
Coach Mills (02:52:36.622)
Okay, Greg, what's your letter grade review?
GragAlbert (02:52:41.5)
I don't know, mean, I guess yeah, if C is indifferent, like I would say C, I just in general am normally indifferent to patches overall, because at end of the day, I'll take any changes, you know, I play this game a lot, any changes to the game, whether they're good or bad, I just view it as exciting to experience something new, we're all on the same patch, it's fine. The only reason I get upset with patches is like, guess, I just want to see more like systematic changes rather than specific ones, like, you know, things that we talked about, you know, getting rid of double bands or things like map rotation.
Like tenacity changing or doing some kind of risky thing like adding passive healing like those are the kind of changes I care more about in patches when I see like all these patch notes It's like yeah, I mean I have like maybe slight opinions on oh, this is a good patch It's a bad one, but for the most part. I don't really care that much. I I guess I'm glad that Deadpool Yeah Exactly sailing no, I mean I like the Deadpool nerf. I don't like the Phoenix buff
Death And Gaming (02:53:11.832)
I'll change, yeah.
Coach Mills (02:53:27.822)
Sounds like a, sounds like a Hulk one trick. No. I'll play Hulk. I'll play. Oh,
GragAlbert (02:53:40.766)
But other than that, everything else for me, I'm like pretty indifferent. So that's why I would give it a similar rating, like just kind of middle, middle of road, C or B or D, whatever you want to call middle, because, you know, I like, I like the Deadpool nerf, don't like the Phoenix buff and then pretty much everything else I'm indifferent towards. And I just wish I could, we would see more of those like systemic changes or something addressing toxicity, like, we're going to do a new way to ban people or, you know, like anything like that.
Death And Gaming (02:53:49.485)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:54:06.03)
I see, I see what saying. Those are the patches, I got you. That makes sense. So you probably really liked the 7.0 patch, right? Like you probably, which we gave that really high marks too, I think.
GragAlbert (02:54:10.278)
Those are patches that I look for and like yearn for. Yes, I was so excited for 7.0. Yeah, I was just like, my God, they're trying something new in the game. They're introducing a new, you know, they changed all ult charge and like reduced it systematically or 7.5, you know, they're introducing this new thing to nasty. Like those are the things I get excited about. I don't get that excited about just like micro hero changes, even though some changes are good, some are bad.
Coach Mills (02:54:31.245)
Gotcha.
Coach Mills (02:54:35.054)
Right, right. What about you, Captain Coach? What's your review?
Captain Coach (02:54:40.347)
D-, barely above failing. You got no Tenasi revert. Now you gotta ban Star-Lord. You gotta ban White Fox. You gotta ban Black Cat. You gotta ban Phoenix. You still gotta ban Gambit. Emma's now on the table for banning and Viz is riding off into the hills laughing. He got away with one. Cheaters running rampant. Fuck all y'all. At least we got a dinosaur though. At least we got a dinosaur.
Coach Mills (02:54:41.336)
D minus.
GragAlbert (02:55:05.126)
So we do get a dinosaur with a laser beam.
Death And Gaming (02:55:05.218)
You know, we do get a dinosaur. The dinosaur is pretty dope. But I-
Coach Mills (02:55:05.496)
Let's go dinosaur! That's gonna be in the intro, your mini-rend, let's go. wait, Galas, what about you?
Captain Coach (02:55:08.931)
God, that's a word. D... D minus. Not quite failing.
GALLUS (02:55:18.82)
It's hard not to be like swayed by you guys' takes but like I was originally gonna say B but it's because I'm like indifferent and if I want to be honest about like about rating at B Bro Bro I when I was streaming when I was looking at last night, bro I was like if I took the Mr. Ref change out of this patch, I'm looking at it, right? What what does it fucking do? What does this patch even do? What does it change? Like it's just
Coach Mills (02:55:25.654)
You got that Mr. Fett bump, bro. You better be putting this shit on A+. Mr. Fett meta, baby! Let's fucking go!
Captain Coach (02:55:27.269)
Hahaha!
GragAlbert (02:55:27.932)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (02:55:31.355)
I was laying low doing that Kermit meme.
Coach Mills (02:55:38.83)
It's a high-pitched
GragAlbert (02:55:42.066)
Ha!
Death And Gaming (02:55:43.534)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:55:44.184)
Like what?
GALLUS (02:55:45.746)
like Star-Lord's now fucking the worst guy I've ever met, like fucking... Mantis is impactful. Like Mantis will be cool to see changes in what she does. But like, like I'm with C to be honest. I don't think it does a whole lot. Didn't see a blade buff. you know, didn't have that again. Something that's that always sticks out to me is like team-ups are in life support. Like the new hero gets a team-up.
Death And Gaming (02:55:46.83)
Are we going to play any differently?
GragAlbert (02:55:50.482)
I'm ready to be frustrated by him.
Coach Mills (02:55:53.558)
Yeah, yeah, Matt's is, yeah.
Coach Mills (02:55:58.766)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:56:04.983)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:56:12.534)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:56:13.816)
Yeah, actually.
GALLUS (02:56:14.54)
One gets a single balance change and that's it. But we will throw the item shop onto Black Cat.
Coach Mills (02:56:17.804)
Yeah, they are. Because it's I think team ups are a lot of effort. it's probably maybe that's probably why.
GALLUS (02:56:22.93)
I mean, yeah, but they want to put absolutely every ability they can think of onto every new hero to the point which half of them become useless or like slop or it's just like too much. Devil Dino has a bleed mechanic. You could have told me in the trailer he didn't have it. I wouldn't have cared. Like it's just all this extra stuff. Like Black Cat's item shop, if you're asking me, she would have been a complete hero without it completely. And then you have six team up to your abilities that kind of hit or miss.
Coach Mills (02:56:29.976)
Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (02:56:37.43)
Yeah, yeah.
GALLUS (02:56:49.309)
for lot of situations except, you you're looking at the invis and like the CC cleanse. I mean, sure. Like, yeah, yes, there's a high ceiling, but like that could have been distributed as six new abilities in team ups for the cast. And it wasn't. And I think those give patches a lot of texture and a lot of new stuff to look forward to. Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:56:50.222)
Oh yeah, you could use them all as team. see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's my.
Coach Mills (02:57:01.902)
I can see that.
Coach Mills (02:57:06.85)
That is, it feels super light. They changed one and they added one and that's it. That's very light. That actually does feel really light.
Death And Gaming (02:57:12.184)
Yeah, especially for like a seed. We're not going to like a half season here. We're going from 7.5 to 8. So I kind of expected this match to be a little bit bigger.
Coach Mills (02:57:18.85)
Sometimes they don't, I bet you that .5 will have a lot. Sometimes they do that where the .5s actually do a lot of team up changes. Maybe they won't, but that's happened in the past where it's like, even though you think that the .0s should be bigger, they're not always bigger. Like sometimes the... So, okay, so my, think I'm actually gonna give this a B minus. I wanted to give it a B plus. Yeah, I actually have pretty high. And I'll talk about why.
Death And Gaming (02:57:23.394)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (02:57:34.523)
Hopefully they just remove White Fox on that one. That'd be a big cool change.
GragAlbert (02:57:36.978)
Yeah.
GALLUS (02:57:37.353)
You
Captain Coach (02:57:43.365)
Wow.
Coach Mills (02:57:47.234)
But I'm a little pissed off on this patch because I you know, like I like I said I've been a chronic Deadpool tank pool abuser and I understand how broken he is and he desperately needed a nerf and I'm like, okay We nerfed him. Let's fucking go. He's needed a nerf for a long time. That's fair because I Understand how good my character is and it's fine. Let's fucking know them cool Ken. It's it's not fair that gene Daredevil black cat fucking gambit envis don't get the same treatment like
That to me is unfair. Especially when my character is good against... Like, my character is good against Invis. My character is good against Jean. And those characters don't get meaningfully touched, and my character does. I think that that's fucked up. But I do agree with the change on paper. I think there's a lot of dumb fucking changes, like the Star-Lord change and shit like that. I don't give a shit about any of that, because I'm just gonna be one-tricking a dinosaur. Like, that's why this fucking patch is B-minus for me. I don't care!
Death And Gaming (02:58:25.647)
All right.
Captain Coach (02:58:40.665)
Yeah
GALLUS (02:58:41.202)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (02:58:41.362)
Dinosaur raises the grade dinosaur raises the grade for sure
Death And Gaming (02:58:42.35)
I don't understand how anyone's upset at this. You know what?
Captain Coach (02:58:44.981)
That's the Dyna buff.
Coach Mills (02:58:46.614)
I literally don't care. I don't care about balance. Fuck your one clips. Fuck your peeling. I'm dinosaur like literally I got my that's all I'm gonna play like if y'all want to do I'm gonna be on dinosaur I'm just laying you know, um
GALLUS (02:58:46.674)
We will be wine tricking him bro
Death And Gaming (02:58:57.294)
I'm actually gonna like change my change my grade. yeah.
GALLUS (02:58:57.462)
Dude, fucking someone needs to be the Punisher. Like that team up. Dude, it shares healing apparently. It's like a mini Soulbond. What's the deal with that bro? It's potentially terrible but also potentially like incredible because if you pick something with splash they also share some damage so it gets more value. So like Moon Knight. But if you Jeff Beam someone
Coach Mills (02:59:00.928)
Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Let's go. Let's go. That's actually sick. That's actually sick. Wait, wait.
Captain Coach (02:59:02.711)
I can't... I can't wait to tell my... Yeah, yeah.
Death And Gaming (02:59:08.322)
Yeah. Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:59:17.454)
It doesn't even tell me. It doesn't even. Oh, I love how much it gives me here. It just gives me so much. Unlocks ancient judgment ability. Okay, thanks. What the fuck does it do? right. right. Hey, hey.
Death And Gaming (02:59:25.72)
Yeah.
GragAlbert (02:59:30.546)
Yeah, really don't care about team ups. They can't even be bothered to type the team ups summary.
GALLUS (02:59:31.282)
gonna do it.
Captain Coach (02:59:31.96)
I'm just
Death And Gaming (02:59:32.044)
All the information you need right there.
Yeah
Captain Coach (02:59:37.691)
I'm just excited to tell my pony that I do it with to ride me. I'm looking forward to that. Looking forward to that. It's not, yeah. This homies.
Coach Mills (02:59:43.566)
Let's fuck yeah, it's the it's the homie writing duo. Yeah, exactly
GALLUS (02:59:44.178)
ha
Death And Gaming (02:59:47.532)
Yeah, just bros.
GALLUS (02:59:48.614)
Yeah, you need to do that shit. You need to do that shit with the speed boosted dyno and it will fucking it will be so fun, man. It's going to be so fun. Yeah.
GragAlbert (02:59:49.01)
Just ride me, bro. Ride me, bro.
Coach Mills (02:59:54.13)
yeah, fuck yeah. See this is why we need TrioQ and Celestial because we can run that shit down every fucking game. Alright, alright we meet and play, let's run it down.
Captain Coach (02:59:55.297)
wait, yes, wait, that's-
my god. We could do that tonight.
Death And Gaming (03:00:01.101)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (03:00:05.358)
I'm going to change my grade to a B minus because there's a dinosaur.
Captain Coach (03:00:08.475)
Okay, okay. All right, I think it would end it.
Coach Mills (03:00:10.902)
But uh, but yeah, I know, you know, overall, you know, the patches kind of ass, but you know
Captain Coach (03:00:14.895)
I'm surprised you guys give it. Grades is good.
Coach Mills (03:00:18.248)
Like I said, it's just literally the dinos. Like I actually don't care how strong the dino is and I don't care how he's balanced I know that that's weird, but it's like something about a dinosaur just like brings me back to childhood Like I don't give a fuck like let me just this is my toy box and I'm a dinosaur like that's it. I don't care Yeah, exactly. Know it's so fucking good. It's so good
Death And Gaming (03:00:20.014)
You know.
Death And Gaming (03:00:28.974)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (03:00:29.957)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (03:00:34.189)
That just sounds fun.
GALLUS (03:00:35.106)
Yeah
GragAlbert (03:00:36.848)
And adding in the laser beams is just like a perfect little touch.
GALLUS (03:00:38.854)
Yeah. He definitely shakes it. I love how fucking big he is, bro. He's fucking enormous. I can't wait to see what happens with that.
Death And Gaming (03:00:39.382)
Yeah. It's so dumb.
Captain Coach (03:00:39.899)
Love it.
GragAlbert (03:00:44.507)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:00:49.454)
It's gonna be incredible. yeah, mean, is there any ending thoughts that you have on the patch on 8.0 or just as a, know, anything you wanna say about 7.5 as we're leaving it? We're at the very tail end of 7.5. Any final thoughts?
Captain Coach (03:01:06.703)
Revert to NASCITY.
Coach Mills (03:01:09.818)
I can agree with that. Or fix it.
Captain Coach (03:01:10.413)
or fix it.
GragAlbert (03:01:11.728)
Yeah, Tenacity needs some adjustment. It feels like a very non-impactful system that really only hurts, I feel like, tanks rather than helping them. I feel like most of the characters that trigger Tenacity are tanks rather than tanks being the ones who get the Tenacity.
Death And Gaming (03:01:17.026)
Yeah.
Death And Gaming (03:01:21.325)
Yes.
GragAlbert (03:01:28.048)
Like you either got Hulk, you know, Hulk ult triggering tenacity a lot. The things just grounding on the floor, every pulse of that adds to tenacity, like adds towards tenacity. The rogues combos, like I just feel like tanks are not benefiting from it as much as they should be when it seems like it was designed to help tanks. So I don't know.
Death And Gaming (03:01:48.28)
Yeah, I'm actually really surprised whenever I see an Alting Hulk and he gets CC'd to death and literally doesn't, his tenacity doesn't trigger on him. But if Hulk is juggling someone, he'll trigger tenacity. And I'm like...
GragAlbert (03:01:56.466)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (03:01:56.699)
Never. Never.
GragAlbert (03:01:59.506)
Yeah
Captain Coach (03:02:01.347)
It's because he's partially CC immune, so he doesn't get all the free little boops and stuff that you would normally get because you're a CC. So Thing doesn't benefit from it. Hulk doesn't benefit from it. Bubbling doesn't trigger it for you. So tanks actually get hurt by Tenacity. They actually get hurt by it, like most of them do.
Death And Gaming (03:02:07.31)
I'll-
GALLUS (03:02:08.412)
Yeah, if you could
Death And Gaming (03:02:18.22)
Yeah, that needs some changes.
GragAlbert (03:02:18.82)
I think they could, maybe it would be too crazy, but like doing something where they just, they get like more tenacity stacks per CC, like tanks do as a passive or something like that would be a step in the right direction. Maybe it would be too broken. if you get double, like maybe you get one stack of tenacity for, if you're not a tank and you get two per CC, if you are a tank, maybe that could be something that helps. Yeah.
Captain Coach (03:02:40.219)
That could work. There's a lot of ways they could go about doing it. I got a video that I posted on my channel. YouTube Captain Coach, if you want to go take a look. Yeah, if you want to go take a look, I got all my thoughts on there. But any other closing thoughts, guys? Changes you'd like to see the game outlook?
Coach Mills (03:02:46.68)
Shout out, shout out his channel, shout out.
GALLUS (03:02:57.418)
I mean like I was gonna say something about tenacity. They added that because the dyno. That's why they did it. They brought the system in early because they wanted to test it. like yeah, dude, he's fucking enormous. This is Monster Hulk as a base hero. Like I don't know what else to say bro. Like he's got hard CC. He's got his alt is trampling and constantly knocking people up. Like it's gotta be wide bro. Like.
Death And Gaming (03:02:57.613)
Coach Mills (03:03:03.534)
Oh you think so? Oh fuck.
Captain Coach (03:03:03.675)
Interesting.
GragAlbert (03:03:09.754)
Yeah. Literally what it is.
Captain Coach (03:03:10.525)
Bye buddy!
Coach Mills (03:03:11.48)
Yeah
Coach Mills (03:03:19.694)
Wait, he's for Dino? Alright, I actually love Tenacity. I love it. Thank you. This is actually great. I'm a propagandist now from now on. Just about Dino. Like that's it. That's it. Exactly. Coach, let's go.
GALLUS (03:03:23.344)
Hehehehehe
GragAlbert (03:03:23.564)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (03:03:23.835)
My buddy called it the...
It's it's code shill code shills. My buddy called it the Hulkasaur actually thought it was pretty funny.
GALLUS (03:03:31.826)
Good chills.
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:03:37.385)
that's good story. you should.
GragAlbert (03:03:39.442)
That's what he is.
GALLUS (03:03:40.272)
Yeah, I don't know about Band-Aid system like that, man. I feel like just balance the game. Because, you know, they introduced the Band-Aid system and they have to make adjustments around it anyway. So it's kind of like, you know, bro.
Captain Coach (03:03:46.021)
Preach.
Coach Mills (03:03:46.434)
Yeah, did you?
Did you hear about the, it's like the head of like, he's like the head at Marvel that does all the collaborations with everything. He wants like rivals to have like over 200 heroes and there's like a plan already for like most of them. Yeah, how's this game gonna look when there's 200 fucking heroes in it? You could play like legit anything. Yeah, like a ban list is worthless when there's 200 fucking heroes.
Captain Coach (03:04:07.734)
Captain Coach (03:04:12.955)
I can't wait for season 99 when we're asking for a 20th Ben slot.
GragAlbert (03:04:17.938)
I'm looking forward to it. I think it'll be good.
Coach Mills (03:04:18.738)
No, the envis is gonna double jumps to shield she can shield shield herself
Death And Gaming (03:04:19.275)
that.
Captain Coach (03:04:24.539)
GragAlbert (03:04:25.554)
I think I actually, I'm optimistic when it comes to that. I think more heroes will continue to help because I do think fundamentally it's impossible to balance anything ever really. Like in every competitive game I've ever played or seen, nothing's ever been fully balanced. There's just like, eras of one power system versus another. Like it's impossible to fully be balanced, but maybe if there's such a bulk of content and characters, it won't even matter if it's not balanced because there's just too much.
Coach Mills (03:04:32.845)
shit
Death And Gaming (03:04:36.407)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (03:04:49.582)
The the Incredibles like the movie Incredibles. It's the Incredibles theory. You know, if everyone's super I know. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, everything's OP. I don't get this. it like Because there's all I don't know if you ever watched that movie Gals, but there's like this really popular movie on YouTube called like it's like we should only buff or like or like buffing is better. I forgot what it's exactly called. But it's like it's like the idea that like buffing is generally better than nerfing.
Captain Coach (03:04:54.875)
Bro. You know, they could take a note from the balance scene in that movie. Like the physics in that movie are actually balanced.
GragAlbert (03:04:56.154)
Yeah, maybe.
GALLUS (03:05:17.093)
have a look.
Coach Mills (03:05:18.634)
It's like, I can send it to you, but it's actually a really great, it's a great, it's a video that might make you think a little bit about.
GALLUS (03:05:23.794)
I'd love to see it, yeah. Well, I'm like a cynical perfectionist, so I'll probably hate it.
Coach Mills (03:05:27.416)
Cause it, it's the, the argument is that like buffing feels good and nerfing feels bad. And ultimately, regardless of what you do, the game is in a state of like, it's, it's, it's always going to be, it's always going to like defer to like the lowest like power level basically. So it doesn't really matter. Like at the end of the day, like if everything's power level is 200 % or if everything's power level 50, but like making things power level 200 % is generally like more fun and engaging. That's their argument anyways. You can, what?
GALLUS (03:05:32.783)
yeah.
GALLUS (03:05:54.834)
I feel like I feel like yeah, I'm interested. I'm interested like it as a very like brief response I disagree with that fundamentally because I feel like it doesn't have enough mapped out theory on This space that you're actually pouring power into so like I disagree with power creep in hero shooters in general because yes You can raise the power level of everyone, but it actively degrades every single individual matchup like
Coach Mills (03:05:56.46)
I'm bastardizing their argument,
Coach Mills (03:06:13.39)
I sent to you on
GALLUS (03:06:19.366)
You have a sledgehammer that's getting really good at being a sledgehammer and you have a concrete that's getting really good at being concrete, right? And it's always gonna block whatever sort of damage, right? But the sledgehammer is gonna get better and better and better at smashing through it. And there's less and less wiggle room in the thing versus Panther, you know? Because now he's got five seconds of grounding in low ranks and shit like that.
Coach Mills (03:06:27.054)
All right. All right.
Coach Mills (03:06:35.768)
But the argument is like eventually the panther has the pierce that goes through the you know, the counterplay and then the thing gets the counterplay and then the panther gets the counterplay and then the thing gets the counterplay.
GALLUS (03:06:44.7)
Yeah, but do you understand that like that exactly right? Because then the panther has no answer to him right now at like the moment they introduced the thing basically is like you can't stop panther the only way you interact with him is you put down a circle of turning the hero off on the ground. You don't interact with him at all. Like and that and we just keep going in that direction.
Captain Coach (03:06:49.413)
Just make them fly. Just make Black Panther fly.
GragAlbert (03:06:51.193)
Yeah
Coach Mills (03:07:03.75)
Right, right. Yeah, but then, but then, but then the next buff we give is like, if Panther triggers enough marks, he gets CC immunity for five seconds or like, I don't know, like, but then, then, then, but I'm just saying like the art.
GALLUS (03:07:14.3)
Yeah, but again, again, he's not interactive. Like, what is this fucking matchup? That's, that's bad.
But then you get CC immunity piercing abilities and then it's like...
Captain Coach (03:07:21.657)
But then...
Coach Mills (03:07:26.72)
Yeah, you know, I mean, it's just like power scaling in comics, you know, like a bench like, you know, Superman is losing to a street level villain and then eventually he's like fucking God, you know what saying? Like, you know I'm talking about? no, actually, I know this is not Marvel, but I fucking hate the flash TV show for that exact. I don't know if anyone's seen the flash TV show, but that motherfucker loses. He literally he literally loses to a goddamn like fucking just a random ass guy like he loses.
Death And Gaming (03:07:27.022)
I'd
Captain Coach (03:07:36.475)
He was holding back the whole time. It's like Dragon Ball Z.
GragAlbert (03:07:36.88)
Hahaha!
GragAlbert (03:07:47.762)
Barry, you're gonna have to run faster.
Coach Mills (03:07:55.458)
This motherfucker can run the speed as light and he just loses to random ass people because like, I don't know, there's not really, you can't really write a speedster. It's like impossible because they're too fast. They just shouldn't ever lose. I mean, yeah, because he can't run fucking faster than you can, you know, blink. He's not that fast. He's fast. But that is actually probably one of the best written speedsters. I'm not going to lie. I love Dash. I fucking love Dash.
Captain Coach (03:08:07.067)
Dash from the Incredibles. That's a good spitzer right there.
Captain Coach (03:08:20.731)
100%. When he figures out he can walk on water. my God. That's my favorite movie. I love incredible. The music, the storytelling, the strength with like the power scaling. It's just, it's peak. Incredible is peak. If you haven't seen that movie, that's what superheroes should be right there. That's a good movie, man.
Coach Mills (03:08:24.686)
Now I get to fucking rewatch Incredibles, bro. What the fuck? Oh.
Death And Gaming (03:08:27.534)
That's a classic.
Coach Mills (03:08:32.812)
Now it is. shit, let's go. that's actually, okay, random tangent, random side thing. Fortnite just announced their Overwatch collab. I know that that's super random, but do you, well, you can actually play as Tracer, like first person in Fortnite. Do you ever think that Rivals will do a collab? Like, with a different IP? We don't really have to because we have so much material, but we could do a collab.
Death And Gaming (03:08:37.74)
Yeah.
GALLUS (03:08:43.644)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (03:08:55.579)
I can't wait to kill a dinosaur with Mario.
Coach Mills (03:09:00.174)
You don't want to, you just want to keep it Marvel.
Death And Gaming (03:09:01.068)
Yeah, I kind of hope they don't. I don't know. Yeah.
GragAlbert (03:09:01.094)
Hahaha
GALLUS (03:09:04.998)
Yeah, they've already done their own stuff because Marvel had done stuff with Fortnite. So I think Luna is in Fortnite now.
Coach Mills (03:09:11.374)
Yes. Yeah, I think so. Well, no, I'm saying something in ours. Like we play as a character, we play as a character, like if they did like a DC collab, but we could play as, I thought that I was never gonna be able to play as a dinosaur until we got like DC allies and I get to play as Beast Boy. Like that's what I thought. Cause I thought Beast Boy would be the coolest fucking character.
Death And Gaming (03:09:12.096)
yeah.
GALLUS (03:09:13.552)
Yeah, so like technically they have or they're just doing it with already existing or something else.
GragAlbert (03:09:24.85)
Thanks.
GALLUS (03:09:29.362)
I think it's really unlikely, unless like genuinely it's kind of something like, you know, K-pop skin for LOONA. Like, I think it's probably like cosmetics for like the ones that will sell the most.
Coach Mills (03:09:36.718)
Oh, okay. Oh, I see what you're saying. Oh, you're saying you're saying like a kpop demon hunters skin collab something like that. I see. That would still be cool. That'd be cool. That's to be cool. That's to be fucking cool.
GragAlbert (03:09:39.772)
Yeah.
GALLUS (03:09:42.672)
Like, yeah, yeah, maybe that could be on the horizon. I think they're mostly concerned with expanding the Marvel universe.
GragAlbert (03:09:44.06)
Yeah, I mean, I think we can easily see... Yeah, I
GragAlbert (03:09:50.022)
I think we'll definitely see like, just skin, like, yeah, skins that are from other IPs. Like, I know, I also think about like, I know Overwatch had like a My Hero Academia collab, right? Where like, Reinhardt had the All Might costume. Like, I could see them doing stuff like that in Marvel too, eventually. Just like random other skins. I don't think they would add characters though, from other IPs. I think that would be weird.
Coach Mills (03:09:57.686)
Ooh, a charm. okay.
Captain Coach (03:10:00.699)
Coach Mills (03:10:05.964)
Okay, yeah I can fuck with that. can fuck with that. Alright.
Captain Coach (03:10:11.803)
What about about streamers? My life goal is to have a Captain Coach Hulk skin. That's my life goal. There you go. Old man, the old man. I love it.
Coach Mills (03:10:15.262)
Ooh, let's play. You're basically fucking Banner, like you're very close. You could do like a Banner cosplay to be mad easy, like it'd take you like a day.
Death And Gaming (03:10:15.786)
That's not gonna happen.
GragAlbert (03:10:16.834)
I think they would, I think that would... I mean, coach, they already added a skin for both of us, Maestro Hulk, so... Bald Hulk.
Coach Mills (03:10:25.784)
it's yes. All right. Death in gaming. Where can people find you if they want to support you, if they fuck with your vibe, if they like what you're about?
Death And Gaming (03:10:34.862)
I am death and gaming on YouTube and death underscore and underscore gaming on Twitch I do a lot of educational guides and stuff like that. I'm a Psylocke main, but I flex to support and tank as well rocket and a spoken dagger app rogue You know, I got a few things in there. So yeah, if you're looking to improve mostly your game sense, you can find me in those places
Coach Mills (03:10:55.278)
Gotta go.
Captain Coach (03:10:59.557)
death makes great videos. I vouch. Definitely give them a look. Thanks for coming on death.
Coach Mills (03:10:59.886)
Yeah, Greg. Greg, whoa.
Death And Gaming (03:11:01.708)
Well, thank you. And please, please, I have an entire playlist on rocket for rock, called Rocket Science to make you be a more aggressive rocket. So rocket players out there.
Coach Mills (03:11:07.918)
Let's go! Let's go! Greg, where can people find you? Where can people support you or hang out with you if they like your vibe?
GragAlbert (03:11:11.891)
Ooh, I like that name. I like that name, Rockin' Science.
GragAlbert (03:11:20.244)
grab albert everywhere i got a little twitch youtube tiktok i try to stream all three platforms monday to friday travel cut post content everywhere and you know all the short form unity towards reals you know all the stuff tiktoks but yeah just grab albert everywhere that's that
Captain Coach (03:11:36.059)
He might be one of the most liked people in the community, I would say.
GragAlbert (03:11:39.555)
A lot of people say that man, a lot people say that.
Coach Mills (03:11:41.1)
Yeah, that's actually hilarious that y'all are so alike, but y'all are perceived completely opposite. It's actually crazy. Like, I have never met a single person that dislikes Greg Albert. I've never met someone that dislikes you. And I, every fucking day I get message, Dway, do you really fuck with Captain Coach? And I'm like, yeah, of course. He's like, they're like, what? Like, how do you like Captain Coach? I'm like...
Captain Coach (03:11:42.212)
Yes.
GALLUS (03:11:47.346)
I thought you were gonna say that's actually hilarious because I hate you bro.
Death And Gaming (03:11:47.701)
Hahaha
Captain Coach (03:12:05.293)
god...
Coach Mills (03:12:07.8)
Bro, like, like I have to defend my like account to coach and I've never once got a negative comment of crack crack. It's actually so funny. Y'all are like the opposite. Devil on your shoulder, angel on your shoulder. It's so fucking funny. It's actually so funny.
GragAlbert (03:12:13.584)
haha
GragAlbert (03:12:20.262)
get it though because I get toxic all the time like I don't know I get angry
Coach Mills (03:12:23.262)
But that's it. You say that, but you definitely don't. Like, I know you don't.
Captain Coach (03:12:24.443)
You got the vibes down.
GragAlbert (03:12:26.82)
I-I-I-I-
Coach Mills (03:12:31.82)
Yeah, but that's that's fine. That's not the same thing that Katatina does.
Death And Gaming (03:12:32.644)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (03:12:33.179)
I'm- no, you wanna hear something funny? We we were- we were playing earlier, I was legit crashing out of this Punisher for what I said earlier, we said- we said, keep him alive, stagger him so we could, you know, kill him later, guy goes in and kills I'm- flaming this Punisher, I'm like going in on it, and then all I hear, like, often, like once I stop and the, you know, the dust has settled, I just hear, AHAH! It's just Greg Gaffer laughing, like, like, I'm just like-
Coach Mills (03:12:41.112)
I'm
GragAlbert (03:12:58.354)
Well, that's what this is like like when other people sometimes other people watch you coach and they're like, yo coach is so toxic But when I watch coke coach say like on those rants, I'm just cracking up laughing the whole time cuz I know him I think it's pure comedy
GALLUS (03:12:58.771)
You
Captain Coach (03:13:07.995)
It's like, bro, come on!
Coach Mills (03:13:08.482)
No, that's what I love it too. Like it's great. It's like therapeutic watching Captain Coach Crack crash out.
GragAlbert (03:13:15.634)
I'm like, guys, you know, I don't think he realized that he's not serious.
Captain Coach (03:13:18.311)
Someone in my chat just said ethical toxicity. I sometimes I go a little overboard, know, necessary evil is what I call it. Anyway, sorry.
Coach Mills (03:13:20.824)
Ahahaha, okay.
Coach Mills (03:13:26.438)
and yeah. Yeah, of course. Of course. If they open the floodgates, it's like, yeah. All right, Gals, where can people support you, bro? What can people watch you climb to rank one fence or watch us climb to rank one fence? You know, us climb, you know.
Death And Gaming (03:13:28.663)
for being a little toxic back to the toxic people sometimes you know if you got a good clap back you gotta you gotta put it in there
GALLUS (03:13:31.378)
Mm.
GragAlbert (03:13:31.74)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (03:13:31.844)
Yeah, yeah.
GragAlbert (03:13:35.335)
Mm-hmm.
Death And Gaming (03:13:38.019)
Right.
GALLUS (03:13:44.39)
Yeah, we'll see if I... We'll see if I can stand it. I'm gallusow on most things. I think I'm at underscore gallus on TikTok for some reason, but like main places are YouTube and Twitch, so it's gallusow there. And I make content talking about the design and balance of the game most of the time. If I'm not, you know, running it down on fan or playing Atom. Yeah, yeah.
Captain Coach (03:13:46.747)
Get carried, bye.
Coach Mills (03:14:06.22)
Let's go, let's go. Yeah.
Death And Gaming (03:14:07.459)
You're really good solid design takes too. You're like one of my favorite creators to look for for the design takes.
Captain Coach (03:14:08.197)
Love it.
GALLUS (03:14:12.55)
Thank you.
Captain Coach (03:14:13.337)
Hey, we'll glaze all around.
Coach Mills (03:14:14.735)
Let's go. W. Captain Coach, where can people find you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so excited. I'm so... Yeah. Let's fucking go. Yeah. No, I really appreciate you guys for coming by. It's sick.
GALLUS (03:14:16.04)
you glazed him.
Captain Coach (03:14:19.579)
We already went through it. We got it.
GragAlbert (03:14:20.358)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (03:14:25.851)
Appreciate everybody tuning in, and for you guys coming on in the clutch, man. Really appreciate it.
Death And Gaming (03:14:30.755)
No, it was fun. Sorry I got so heated. was just the talk of the support gets me all riled up,
Captain Coach (03:14:34.319)
Yeah.
GALLUS (03:14:35.635)
Same bro, yeah
GragAlbert (03:14:36.081)
Hahaha!
Coach Mills (03:14:39.56)
but yeah, anyways, bye. Bye podcast. Bye. Bye guys. Press, press that subscribe.
Captain Coach (03:14:42.031)
Bye.
Death And Gaming (03:14:43.433)