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Discover the premier and original podcast dedicated to wildland firefighting, the vibrant culture surrounding wildland firefighters, firefighter mental health and physical performance, and the wilderness - The Anchor Point Podcast... Join our global community as we delve into the captivating stories of Wildland Firefighters, shed light on career opportunities, promote fire prevention awareness, educate the public, and openly discuss the mental health struggles and triumphs faced by firefighters on and off duty. Immerse yourself in our unscripted and unedited long-form interviews, where we leave no topic unexplored.
With The Anchor Point Podcast, you'll gain free and exclusive access to firsthand experiences shared by wildland firefighters, industry experts, mental health clinicians, physical performance professionals, doctors, scientists, and the families of fire line operators. Our episodes encapsulate the entire spectrum of emotions, from the extraordinary and awe-inspiring moments to the challenging and humorous anecdotes that arise within the industry.
One of our podcast's core focuses lies in unraveling the physical and mental demands encountered while working in the field. We delve into topics such as proper nutrition and hydration, stress management, relationships, and maintaining focus, offering valuable insights and shared experiences.
Prepare to embark on an immersive journey into the heart of the action, as each episode of The Anchor Point Podcast takes you on an in-depth exploration of the challenges and rewards experienced by fireline operators. Engage in enlightening interviews and discussions with subject matter experts that provide a comprehensive understanding of wildland firefighting.
Whether you are a passionate wildland firefighting enthusiast or an individual seeking to expand your knowledge, The Anchor Point Podcast is an indispensable and trusted resource. Our episodes cover a broad range of topics, including fire behavior, weather patterns, medical know-how, equipment, gear, and the evolving role of technology in firefighting.
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Anchor Point Podcast Host: [00:00:00] What's going on? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. Today's episode's gonna be brought to you by Mystery Ranch, built for the mission, and if you haven't been rocking one of their wildland fire packs for your career, well, it probably sucks, especially on your shoulders and your back, but I always say that every damn time that I do one of these little insertions, these ad insertions for Mystery Ranch, let's talk about the brass tack of why I believe in Mystery Ranch so much.
Now, yes, they are a sponsor of course, but let's cut the crap and get to the chase. Right? The reason why I believe in Mystery Ranch and what they're doing and how much they support the boots on the ground is because they do exactly that. They're not full of crap and they give a shit. They genuinely do.
So for every little pack that's out there in the Wild Bend game, there's a ton of other. Other stuff that's going on behind the scenes to support you folks in the field even more. I mean, take a look at the backbone series. They're giving out a thousand dollars scholarships for improving your career and your life.
Some of the folks over there are involved with grassroots and it's pretty [00:01:00] badass shit. Some of 'em even started it even down to Dana Gleason, the OG founder of Mystery Ranch. He went out of his way to go down to SoCal work with shot crews to develop the very packed that you guys and girls out there in the field are wearing.
And if that doesn't speak volumes about the passion that they have for wildland firefighters, well, I don't know what to tell you. So with that being said, after all of'em have said they're good folks and they believe in you and they support you. So that's why I am so gracious that they're a sponsor of the Anchor Point Podcast.
So if you wanna find out more, go over to www.mysteryranch.com. Check out the backbone series and check out all of the other load-bearing essentials that they have to offer. And of course we have our coffee sponsor because we all know that the Ink Point Podcast can't come to you live to your ears or pre-recorded to your ears unless it's, uh, done in a very caffeinated state.
So the people that I rely on for my Caffe Nation is none other than [00:02:00] Hotshot Brewery. It's kick ass coffee for a kick ass cause and a portion of the proceeds will always go back to the Wildland Firefighter Foundation and some other causes that they're just, uh, yeah, they're working on it. But yeah, there might be some, uh, other stuff in the works there.
So if you want the best in kick ass coffee and four kick ass causes, go over to www Hotshot Brewery, but it just doesn't stop there. You can go over there and get your full line of wildland Firefighters seemed apparel and all of the tools of the trade to get your mornings started off right. So once again, that is www.hotshotbrewery.com.
Go check 'em out. And of course, I gotta give a quick little shout out to my buddy Booz over at the ass Movement. And that stands for. The anti surface shooting movement. Homie's a firefighter up there in ak and he's doing the good deed of spreading boo bearing propaganda across the globe. I dunno about everybody out there that's listening, but I absolutely hate it when I see a surface turd or someone just doesn't clean up their wreckage left behind their human excrement, and it's disgusting and that shit needs to stop.[00:03:00]
So not only is he one of my very close homies, uh, and we work together on some other projects, uh, it it's, yeah, he's got a good mission and it was all started from humble beginnings, which he, you can ask him all about Anyways, if you have it over to www dot the Fire Wild and check out the As movement and use the code Anchor point S 10 at checkout, well, you can save 10% off your entire order through the As movement.
Go check 'em out. Once again, that is www.thefirewild.com/the as movement. And last but not least, I would like to give a little shout out to my homie Bethany over at the a w e, the American Wildfire Experience, also known as the Smokey Generation. Yeah, you probably heard of it because they are paying it back for the people that are paying it forward.
And what do I mean by this? Well, the folks that are telling the story of Wildland Fire. Yeah. I don't know if you've heard, but you should have by now if you ever listened to any of these episodes. Yeah. The, uh, smokey [00:04:00] Generation has given out $500 grants for those folks in the field that are telling the story of Wildland Fire.
It's an awesome cause, and it's only bettering the boots on the ground. So if you wanna find out more, go over two www.wildfireexperience.org and check it out. There's a ton of stories, there's a ton of, uh, content and there's shit some of. Stories are dating even back to the 1940s. Second, uh, this like a oral history, an oral storytelling project, and is all cataloged over at the American Wildfire experience.
So once again, if you wanna check it out and find out more, go over to www.wildfireexperience.org and check it out.
The views and opinions of this podcast do not reflect the views and opinions of the United States government, the Department of the Interior, the Department of Defense, the Department of Agriculture, the United States Forest Service, the Bureau of Land Management, national Park Service, [00:05:00] the Bureau of Indian Affairs, or any private municipal county or state firefighting organization, any law enforcement agency, any medical provider, or any contractor employed by any federal agency.
All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the show. It's been a while. I've been on a little bit of a brief hiatus, and I hope that everybody's doing well, and I hope that everybody is in shape and ready to go for this wildland fire season. Some of you out there, it's been a wildfire year, especially with the, uh, off district tours and assignments back east this winter.
So that's kind of nice. Go rolling into the season with, uh, a little bit of change in your pockets and a little bit of training as well. But other than that, we have some big news to share this, uh, whole ti The [00:06:00] title of this episode should obviously be what the, uh, content is going to be about. But what we're gonna do is we're gonna invite, uh, grassroots wildland firefighters and the National Federation of Federal employees on the show to have a, um, this is actually recorded live.
So, uh, if you wanna check out the live stream, check out their YouTube, but we're talking about the, uh, president's 20 fiscal year 24 pay. Bumps that are a part of the, uh, projected or, uh, proposed, uh, presidential spending and budget for fiscal year 24. There's a lot of stuff that's, uh, related to Tim's act in there.
So if you wanna find out, we're still looking through the fine minute details so far, trying to figure out where all this stuff actually, uh, gets into place. But if you wanna find out what is on the horizon and what is in that, then this is the episode for you. So, without further ado, I would like to introduce the grassroots wildland firefighters and some representatives from the National Federation of Federal Employees.[00:07:00]
Welcome to the anchor points.
And there we are. We're. Welcome everybody to another episode of the Anchor Point Podcast on a live edition. They St. Patrick's Day 2023. We've got some special, uh, announcements and updates and, uh, we want to hear about all of the, uh, news on Capitol Hill and what better people to have in this conversation than the people that are implementing this change and kind of directing that change.
It's pretty awesome. So we have grassroots, Wyoming Firefighters and the National Federation of Federal Employees. Probably seen them around the social media channels quite often, and you've probably seen all the things that they've been doing, but a very important cause and they have some news to share with everybody today.
And first off, I'd like to introduce Max Runy. Take it away, bud. Hey, how's it going? Uh, max Alonzo, I'm with National Federation of Federal Employees. I'm, uh, one of the business reps here. [00:08:00] Um, kind of took the lead on a lot of the, uh, land management stuff, a lot of forest service stuff, um, uh, BLM and. The other departments.
Um, when I came on, I, I really wanted to focus When I came on three years ago with nephew, I really wanted to focus on wildland fire issues. Um, I spent my career with the Forest Service and I saw these issues for a lot of years. Uh, that's, yeah, that, that's, that's where I'm at. Um, Randy Irwin is our president.
Uh, he has been extremely supportive of all of the stuff that we've been wanting to do. Uh, he's been hitting the hill himself, talking to people, working on things. Uh, we've got a great coalition. Um, I'm gonna let it go to Randy now.
Randy Irwin: Thanks Max. And, uh, hi everybody. Um, just want to thank, uh, anchor Anchor Point podcast for bringing us on.
Uh, really appreciate the opportunity to be here. It's dope to have you. Yeah. And, [00:09:00] um, uh, grassroots wild lamp firefighters, uh, just do tremendous work. We're so, uh, happy and proud to have you guys as partners and doing all we can to better the lives of wildland firefighters. Um, so, um, you know, yeah, I'm, I'm the national president and Effie, and, uh, I'm really proud of the work that we do.
We represent 10,000, uh, wildland firefighters across the country, mainly in the Forest Service, but a little bit in a, in a few other agencies as well. Uh, you know, last year was, uh, uh, you know, a, a kind of defining year re really exciting, uh, what we accomplished. Um, you know, what a, a tremendous group effort.
Um, and, uh, and it really was kind of landmark, you know, get getting, you know, a, a tremendous increase, uh, in, in pay first of all, which is kind of first and foremost what we hear about, hear the most about and what leads to so many other problems, uh, with wildland firefighters and, um, you know, uh, but, but as everybody knows, um, the, the, the, the, the great provisions that we got [00:10:00] in, in, in that stimulus package there, um, uh, you know, a couple years back, uh, it was only for two years.
And so, you know, we are actually in the final year already, boy, how fast time flies and, um, you know, we got a really, really big job ahead of us. Um, and, uh, you know, so I mean, for us, you know, this is the highest priority that we have. Um, you know, as a union, uh, you know, we, wild land firefighters are our bread and butter and, um, and, and, and, you know, we have a, a, a great opportunity to kind of.
Lock in the, these changes that we got on a temporary basis and we're, we're life changing and now we gotta, we gotta get them permanent. And, and, and there's a, a long list of other things that we gotta get done on top of that. But, um, you know, I'm, I'm really excited, uh, because, you know, there, there, there really is such a tremendous movement happening here.
I mean, you Yeah, I, I feel it. I see it every day. And you know, th that that movement of wild land firefighters standing [00:11:00] up and demanding that, that they see changes, uh, you know, th that, that need to happen. We all know what they are. Um, you know, it's, it really is incredible. And so, you know, I think we have kind of broke, broken through the, um, uh, the, the minutia broken.
You know, sometimes it's hard to get people's attention in Washington and um, you know, I think we've been able to. . Um, and, and so now, now we've got their ear. And, uh, you know, I, I'm, I'm really proud to say that that's a bipartisan thing. You know, it's, it, you know, I think with the, the administration, the administration hurt us and they, you know, uh, they, they did a lot last year, uh, particularly in, in, uh, letting those pay raises go nationwide instead of just kind of, uh, focusing on, on a few areas and other areas getting screwed.
That would've been terrible. So they really listened to us and, uh, you know, I've been, you know, you know, I'm, I'm a little bit connected in Washington. You know, I kind of got to meet the president the other day. Uh, when the president's budget came out the other day, I got a briefing, a one-on-one briefing from Secretary [00:12:00] Vilsack to go through all the pieces that, that were impacting Wildland firefighter.
Um, but, um, the, the thing is they're, they're, this administration is proud of what they've been able to accomplish on Wildland fire. They, they consider, One of their crowning achievements. And that's great because if they're really happy about what happened last year and they, they think that's a feather in their cap, then they're more likely to, to do it again and to really push for it.
So, so that's good. And, and then on Capitol Hill, you know, uh, we've got a, a truly bipartisan approach to what we're doing, uh, which, which isn't really always the case, you know, uh, you know, but, but last year we got, we got standalone legislation passed unanimously in Congress. Um, you know, for, for six people under six C that got injured on the job that they didn't get their, their, uh, early retirement taken away.
Uh, that was a big, heavy lift that took a couple decades, but we finally got it done last year. And we got it done unanimously, 407 votes to zero in the house. That doesn't happen in this day and age. That doesn't, it doesn't happen. And so that, that's [00:13:00] key because that means that everybody really views what we're doing, what this movement is and what it represents.
It has complete bipartisan appeal. And so that's, that's part of the battle and that's a lot of things that other interests will not have. Uh, but we have, and we gotta take advantage of. Uh, but we got a lot of work, important work to do this year. We gotta keep this movement going. And, and, you know, we, we do not want to get to this cliff that's coming at the end of this fiscal year.
Uh, and, and have people's pay fall back to what it was before. Uh, I, I can't, as disastrous as it was before the pay raise went up, I, I can't imagine how bad it would. If we get to that point and, and, and, and we have to go through that again, especially if we had to go through it for a year or more. So, so we really do have our work cut out for us this year and, uh, you know, uh, you know, I'm so glad we have, have, have you all as partners, uh, to, to make that happen.
You know, I, I really encourage everybody out. We need every single person to get engaged in this fight. Hopefully join these [00:14:00] organizations here, but at the same, but also become engaged and get plugged in. Because, because we gotta, we gotta have a strategy to, to get to every member of Congress and, and make sure that they're supporting the wildland firefighters.
And if we do that, we'll have success and, you know, all of this, uh, everything in the president's. You know, you know, I, I'm, I think the president's budget is great. Uh, for, for wildland firefighters, 568 billion in total in new spending for wildland firefighters. That's $57,000 per wildland firefighter. I'll say that again.
That number comes out to $57,000 per wildland firefighter, and that's, you know, locking in the pay, uh, getting more boots on the ground housing portal to portal mental health. And so, I mean, that, that's a really good package. That's not where it ends, you know, because this, this, I mean, we got wildland firefighters have been ignored, uh, in [00:15:00] Washington for, for decades.
And, and you don't, you don't get all the way in one year, but this is one heck of a start. And so we, we gotta go up the Capitol Hill and get this and, and continue to make the case for more and more. It'll be a multi-year effort, but this would be one heck, heck of a start. So, but we need, we need everybody involved in that fight because it is, it is a big heavy lift.
Uh, but if we do it we'll be stronger and, um, and, uh, and, and we'll, we'll get some great things done and there'll be no stopping us going forward. Absolutely.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Thank you, Randy. Appreciate it. And yeah, he brings up a good point there. The shut up and dig mentality is pretty much over, and it shows, and it's thanks to efforts through the boots on the ground, directly funneled upwards to the upper echelons of leadership through these two organizations right here.
That being the N F F E, uh, national Federation of, uh, federal employees and grassroots wildland firefighters, and. I see we move mountains with spoons over here in the chat box. And, uh, yeah, that, that name kind of all alluded to what all of you have been doing on Capitol Hill. But moving on [00:16:00] to introductions.
Yvette, go ahead and take it away. Hey everybody,
Yvette Piacsek: I'm Yvette Piche. I'm also with Nephi. I'm the, uh, deputy General Counsel in nephew's Office of General Counsel. Uh, I've been in the role for a little over two years now. Um, although I've been a, a lawyer fighting for federal employees for over 15 years now.
Um, but since I've come to Nefi, I have really kind of dug in to your wildland firefighters issues and. There's incredible work happening right now. You know, thank goodness we've had grassroots, wildland firefighters are doing, um, a lot of heavy lifting over the years, and we are happy to work alongside them and alongside all of you.
You know, the, the what view of my role is, um, you all are the union. If, and, and I know some of you can't be in the union or your union, [00:17:00] your forest isn't unionized yet. You should get unionized. Um, but. If I am not speaking for the people I represent, which is wild land fire, then I'm not doing my job. And I, I love my job every day because I hear what you guys are going through and, and we're making real change.
Um, and it's happening fast and the stars are aligned. Um, but I know it's because, you know, so many people have, have put so much work into this. Um, and we can make mountains move a whole lot faster, um, with everybody coming together. Like you have this last year. I, I really do believe that people standing up for themselves, um, has made a huge difference.
And, and I'm really glad to be part of this team. That said, I'm new to wild net firefighter issues, so I'm two years is. Is a decent amount of time, but you know, when I speak I wanna speak your language. Um, so you all have to educate me [00:18:00] and I, you know, I luckily I got a lot of great leaders out there, a lot of support, um, within our union ranks.
We got, you know, Andy Vander, who, and, um, Stephen Goodier as Mark Munoz, um, Aaron Kidwell. Like we just have really great folks out there, Hoby Miller. Um, and, you know, they, they get it. I'm in regular, almost daily conversation with all of them. Um, and that really helps us push through what we gotta get pushed through.
Cuz I'm the one who has conversations with O P M about like the occupational series. And, you know, through those conversations came to know that we gotta get Randy to contact Secretary Vilsack to get them to process this pay. Um, So I am kind of the master of relationships with the executive branch for nephew, I'd say.
Um, and it's been, I think great, um, lot more work to do. Um, but I need [00:19:00] every single one of you out there, um, to tell your stories, to amplify it, push stuff out on Instagram, do exactly what you're doing. Um, and I'll keep doing what I'm doing and there's gonna be no stopping us and poor Luke hasn't even had a chance to say hi to everybody yet.
So lemme pass it over to my brother. Luke,
Anchor Point Podcast Host: go take away Luke,
Lucas Mayfield: uh, excuse me, and I apologize for my voice. Uh, I appreciate the opportunity. Brandon. Uh, my name's Luke Mayfield. I'm the current president of Grassroots, wildland Firefighters and one of the co-founders, uh, when this started, you know, a little over three years ago.
The intent was to provide a platform that allowed for advocacy, self-advocacy, and cohesion across organizations. And I think that, uh, a great [00:20:00] indicator of that happening is this call right now with NFI on and grassroots. And I think that we formed, like Max alluded to, a fantastic coalition amongst any and all parties.
You know, grassroots is an advocate for advocacy. We don't care how it's done, we just wanna see us cross the finish line and see the results at the end. That allow for federal wildland firefighters to enter the career and exit as whole and healthy human beings, um, as possible. And we know it's a difficult job.
Uh, grassroots is a huge supporter and advocate for congressional approval of the FY 24 President's budget. We are extremely grateful [00:21:00] of the budget proposal as provided. Um, we also want clarification, and before we make an educated and informed push for the masses to advocate behind, there are points of clarification that we are seeking before we start disseminating that information.
I can go into those as, as, uh, allowed and if anyone else has anything, I will, uh, hand it over. I guess I will say one thing, the, the fire family, the federal fire family is amazing. Um, you know, it's been my priority for a majority of my adult life. And the change that's happened since 2019 to right now [00:22:00] through budget and infrastructure is historic.
The FY 24 proposal is historic, but we do want clarification.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: That's a big thing. And like, like I were saying, all these people in this uh, conversation, they've done a hell of a lot and it's through the direction of the boots on the ground. So with that being said, let's try and get into some of the, I guess, finer things that we've been told and we've been briefed on from a congressional level.
Because the last thing I want to do is go into this conversation with some level of hearsay or speculation. I kind of wanna try and remove that. I know the details are going to be inherently limited cuz we don't have all of the specifics. Right. However, there's some big important movements happening on Capitol Hill and so directly going to affect the wildland firefighters on the ground and that that pay parody and classification and the retirement benefits, all that stuff is a huge thing.
People have been fighting for this for as long as the Forest Service has been around. I [00:23:00] mean, how many years has it been? 40, 50? I mean, obviously the Forest Service has been around longer than that, but ever since that pay gap and the. I guess inflation out outpacing the, uh, risks and the amount of, um, risk that we take on is not measured anymore.
So with that being said, what can we talk about? What can't we talk about? Is there any topics that you guys wanna bring up right away and just kind of put there out, out
Lucas Mayfield: there on the floor? I can go over what grassroots is seeking clarification on directly, if that works for the, the NFI representatives works for go
Randy Irwin: for it.
Lucas Mayfield: Um, so again, we support the FY 24 budget proposal. We're grateful, we recognize and are thankful for the agency leadership across the U S D A and d I for providing the inputs that have contributed to this proposal, what we are seeking [00:24:00] clarification on and asked directly.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: You all right, buddy? Yeah. That cold's killing you, man. . Yeah,
Lucas Mayfield: it's a, it's a fantastic time in the life of me. Oh, I just got over one. I show you . We would, we are asking for the exact pay tables that specifically show the pay rates from what we understand are a 36% increase at the GS three level to a 1.5% increase at the GS 15 level.
We would like clarification or information available that compares this permanent pay table to the bill supplement that was $20,000 or 50% of annual salary. And the justifications or considerations that were used [00:25:00] to create this 36% to 1.5% raise, um,
Anchor Point Podcast Host: scale copy that. Hey, Luke, if you mind if I interject real quick.
That's just to clarify for the folks out there listing, um, that's the GS three through GS 15 level. Now that's a sliding scale that goes up to GS 15. Right. And the GS fifteens would be on the lowest, the 1.5% raise, correct? Yes,
Lucas Mayfield: correct. Right now, the A GS three is, we understand it from the releases that have come out.
A GS three would be receiving a 36% increase, GS fifteens or 1.5. So what does it look like in the middle and what is the comparable or the justification for it as compared. To budget and infrastructure that was $20,000 or 50% of that makes sense. We would [00:26:00] like further definition of the portal to portal premium pay.
Um, is this a differential? Does this account for the hours of rest that are not coded as base pay or overtime, is it classified as premium and or coded as a differential? Will it be available for local assignments and initial attack? And what is the criteria for people to secure portal to portal on their home unit while on local assignment, resource order p code?
And how will dispatchers secure portal to portal. The next point that we would like, well, we wouldn't necessarily like clarification on, but I think people will definitely need to be aware of, is that the implementation between d O I and the U US [00:27:00] Forest Service or U S D A is going to be different because of the impacts that are going to occur on positive education requirements.
Um, the forest services, we understand it has received an extension, um, on the classification portion to December of 2023 to ensure that classification is investigated and pulled off as appropriately as possible because it, it's gotta be done right and right takes time. So the extension is not a bad thing.
Uh, we would like clarification. Of what we understand right now from the, the U S D A US Forest Service approach is that classification is different than personnel management. Personnel management includes position description, modernization. Does that happen with the extension or is it still [00:28:00] an intended, um, effort that is going to happen after a classification?
And the last thing, and I think this is huge, you know, a part of the, the FY 24 budget, appropriates 10 million per agency per year over year funding of comprehensive health and wellbeing program. We, that, that is necessary, needed and mandatory for the wellbeing of our folks, but the root cause of the need for that, in my opinion and perspective.
Is the current workload and expectations that exist for the workforce. We strongly believe that the work to rest ratio needs to be investigated at a much larger level to include and look at fire seasons and fire careers, [00:29:00] not just operational shifts and 16 on and a o. And we wanna advocate probably, obviously across the board for that investigation and a new work schedule that allows for the actual actual work-life balance and not the catchphrase work-life balance.
And that's grassroots. We support it. We support the agency's attempts, uh, their intent. We are extremely grateful for the communication that we've had with the agencies. We see the, the budget proposal as imperative and historic. It needs to be approved by Congress intact with everything that's being asked for, but it's a step and we need [00:30:00] more steps, more advocacy, everyone at the table and coalition amongst all organizations that are involved in this.
And I, I really can't thank NFI enough. Um, it's, it's been a pleasure getting to work with you, improve relationships and, uh, get tattoos in.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: So there you go, ladies and gentlemen. Zizi
Randy Irwin: hop,
Anchor Point Podcast Host: ZZI hop. The, uh, updates on grassroots point of view on these, uh, this, this pay and classification package, this, uh, budget proposal for fiscal year 24. And, uh, yeah, like Randy said earlier too, I mean, we're running into a wall here. We're, we're gonna run out. I mean, the fiscal year ends, what?
October for the federal budgets. Yep. So TikTok, that's this October is when they switch over to the fiscal year 24. So they better either stomp on the gas or figure something out. Cause little worried,
I'm
Anchor Point Podcast Host: a little bit [00:31:00] worried that it's not going to be implemented in time. So with that, what do your guys', uh, perceptions of that on Capitol Hill, do you have, obviously there's gonna be some trepidation there, but what's your thoughts?
I per personally, what's that? Go ahead, Randy. We
Randy Irwin: all have thought , . Are you talking about the timing of it? The timing of it? Yeah. Is this gonna be
Anchor Point Podcast Host: like a slide into home plate at like the last possible second score goal, or are we looking at a rapid acceleration and getting this thing on the plate to fix the problems?
So,
Randy Irwin: so, so it, well, one of two things happened. Sometimes there's some, uh, uh, emergency spending or uh, like a stimulus type thing. If there's a vehicle like that, that move. Then there's a good chance that I think we would be able to, uh, get, get some of, you know, get something attached to kind of cover, cover the gap, because it is very, very unlikely that we're gonna have, uh, uh, a, a appropriations bills, uh, passed on under a, under a normal timeline.
Um, there's [00:32:00] continuing resolutions every year, and we're, we're pro we're probably destined for more conflict, uh, in Washington this year than less. Uh, so I, I would not be optimistic. I mean, I think everybody has to be prepared, uh, for the, for the high likelihood that even if we get this done, that there's gonna be a period where, uh, where we, we would, you would get back pay in in the new year once the budget gets passed.
But, but there would be a point where the, where the pay would kind of drop off and go to a lower level. I think that's h highly, highly likely. And that's just the process. And there's probably very little that we can do about that without some special vehicle to get it done in.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: I was gonna say, I mean, with, with, with that being said, Randy, um, even if, if that, if there is that opportunity, we all need to get on board.
We all need to be writing our congressmen. We all need to be getting on the hill as much as possible and letting 'em know that this workforce is gonna walk out. The second their checks is, their checks are lowered. [00:33:00] I mean, there, there is, they're gonna lose, even if they make promises, you know, how many people are sick of promises, empty promises that they've had their whole career, that if they see their checks go down $700 a pay, a pay period, they're walking.
They have better places to go. Yeah. Um, places that, you know, we'll take care of 'em. So, so we, we really need to get that. And, and it's not our jobs. I mean, it is, but it's everybody. So everybody out there, everybody that's got fire boots on needs to be calling their rep. They need to be writing letters.
They need to be getting involved with these organizations. They need to be part of this. And I can't stress that enough. I mean, yeah, it, we, we say it a lot. Right. Um, You know you got one person standing on the corner yelling, they look crazy. You got a thousand people standing on the yelling.
Randy Irwin: You got a movement.
And, uh, but I, but I max, I, I do think it's important that we manage expectations because, because some things are just not in our control. I mean, we're hard workers, but we're not miracle workers. And, you know, [00:34:00] I can't control, uh, you know, the conflict that incurs in Washington. I can try to manage it and, and operate within it, but I can't change it.
And so if we've got those kind of macro factors working against us and there's no vehicle to, to to, to, you know, get some kind of short term reprieve to get us to till till that to next calendar, you're say, or once, once those, the, the, those budget bills get are appropriations get passed, you know, so, so, and I, and I don't want everybody to be getting mad at our organiz.
When it's something we don't have any control over. I mean, we pulled a rabbit out of a hat to get this, you know, pay increase everything that was in, in, in, in that, uh, stimulus bill a couple years ago. And now we've got a good chance and I think we'll get it done, uh, you know, to, to make these things permanent and, and move the ball a little bit further down the field.
Uh, but, but we can't create, create, uh, you know, we can't, we can't do things that are just impossible. You know, we're hard workers, but we're not miracle workers.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Definitely. I'm just, I'm just [00:35:00] saying, uh, uh, you know, if we, if we have that opportunity, um, that it'll, it always helps just to have, have everybody involved.
Just get everybody involved.
Yvette Piacsek: Oh yeah. We've got about five months to make our case to Congress. Mm-hmm. , we gotta get through to these folks that have the power. Now that this proposed budget is out there, it's, it's their responsibility. And so if all of us take this time over the next several months, To, to share our stories, our, your stories are so compelling and really do grab people's attention.
Sure. And I think if we can all move and, and contact Congress, um, you know, we'll get their attention and even if they have to, you know, make some drastic compromise to, to pass a budget, um, at the last minute, that's what we need them to do. And we need them to know that we're not gonna cut this fire budget proposal money.
That all has to say, if anything, we'll double it, triple it, , [00:36:00]
Anchor Point Podcast Host: but they're sun
Yvette Piacsek: in the ground. You know, this is not an area to compromise on. And, and so it's on all of us to, to relay that. And, you know, Nefi grassroots, I think Hu Chefs Association, you know, we've been talking about how to strategize around this and we're all in full support of the budget.
And, and now it's just a pivot to to, to mobilization and, and we're gonna be leading that together with all of our groups to get every single person in fire involved, um, to make the pay fix permanent, um, before it lapses. Because like Muno says in the chat, people will walk if it's not there. And, and we can't afford that.
America can't afford afford that. Like it's lies. So
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Absolutely, and that's a good thing about these two organizations here, the grassroots and, uh, Duffy. Um, the folks that can unionize by all means hit up your local rep and try and get that ball moving because these guys are doing stuff [00:37:00] on Capitol Hill that's pivotal to this whole cause, right?
The people that can't, or the people that just wanna support and support both functions at the same time go hit up grassroots at the same time. I mean, we're there, the, all of us are there. We're trying to get this ball across the finish line. The, that we're, you know, third and. Goal, or whatever you wanna call it, whatever stupid analogy you wanna put out there, but it's there.
But also, I understand that a lot of people need to set their expectations realistically. Now this stuff isn't gonna be passed overnight, like you're all saying. But also, it'd probably do some justice for the folks out there listening to this call to do some research into civics, right? Because not a lot of people know how the inner workings of Congress and congressional sessions and budgets and fiscal years and all that stuff works.
So we gotta gotta navigate all of that stuff at the same time while trying to steer the direction of these bills. It's crazy.
Yvette Piacsek: So I'll just say real quick, you know, the [00:38:00] proposal is, is just the proposal. Um, you know, it's the baseline management formula for what they think they need. Congress always defers to that, you know, they say, well, the agency told us this is what they want.
Sure. So keep that in mind. This, we wanted all of this and they reflected a lot of our advocacy and these numbers and. Higher numbers than we've seen in a long time. Um, but it's still management's proposal. And they had, from what I was told, they had to do a lot of arm wrestling in back rooms to even get some of this stuff.
Um, so, you know, we have this time now, this spring and this summer to, to put forth what we think the proposal should be. Obviously this is great and we support it. This is the floor. Um, and, and, and, and if we can, you know, we'll try and squeeze all out a little bit more, but it's just a proposal. So if this buzz budget doesn't fit every single person, [00:39:00] you know, that's, that's okay in a way cuz we're gonna have future budgets.
We're gonna have the, the master agreement too. The union is, is bargaining the master agreement that covers, um, all just about all forest service forests. Um, And, and, and we're gonna try and get a lot of good stuff for fire in there too. Um, you know, that's a way that we can try and work on issues that, that Congress can address.
Um, but management directly can, and so we just engage with them directly. Um, yeah, I think that's all I wanted to say
Randy Irwin: on that. Uh, I would, I would elaborate a little bit and, uh, I mean, where I, where, where I think this fight is gonna be at is, is really when it, when it boils down to it, it's the Republicans in the house are representatives.
That's, that's where we gotta, that's where the work needs to be done because, you know, on the Republican side of the aisle, there are a lot of calls for, uh, cuts in spending austerity type measures. [00:40:00] Uh, you know, in, in, in fights that are of, you know, way, way above our head, pay grades, some something we have nothing to do with.
Um, and, and we can't change for that matter. But, you know, at, at least on, on this issue, We need to separate what is being done with wildland fire from what, however they conceive of government spending and, and that being a bad thing and wanting to limit it. We need to them, in their minds to separate wildland fire from that, from that , you know?
And, and the way we do that is by, you know, engaging them with their own constituent. You know, at home, you know, cause cause there's so many people in Washington or organizations that they, they, they front, they pretend they've got a hundred, all these thousands of people, hundreds of thousands. And the truth is, it's a paper tiger.
They're not in touch with these people. They don't really, they don't, they're not real. They can't talk to them or go meet them or, or engage them. You know, that. And that's what's a little bit different a about, about our [00:41:00] organizations is we actually do speak to them , you know, we really do represent and, and have contact with people in these areas.
Yeah. You're bridging that
Anchor Point Podcast Host: gap between us and the upper echelons of government, essentially. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Both, both organizations. Grassroots and NiFi.
Randy Irwin: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But, but we got, we gotta get to those Republican offices and on the house side and separate, separate, uh, the, the, the bigger thing of government spending.
From what's happening with this, and this is a tiny little sliver, you know what I mean? Like this is a multi-trillion dollar budget and we're talking about a little 500, uh, 68 million, you know, for this group. It's life changing, you know, and you know, it's, it's, there's no, there's no reason why anybody. On any side, any side of the aisle shouldn't be in support of this.
But that's where we have the work to do. And we gotta do it soon because this ball starts to roll. You know, they start, uh, in the house. They, they, they take up [00:42:00] the, the, the budgets first. You got these subcommittees of the appropriations, uh, you know, committees and stuff. Then they start, they start putting these budgets together and, and making decisions.
And, you know, usually the, the ultimate decisions aren't, aren't made till much later on in the part process. And lately they've been kind of bundling 'em all into these big, what they call, uh, omnibus appropriations bills and things like that. But you still gotta do the work early on, be before the die becomes cast.
And, and we, and they kind of like, are just hacking away at, at, at all the kind of what they consider big spending that the president's doing and this being lumped in with that. So we gotta get to them early and, and separate ourselves. Uh, so, so that, so that the Republicans in, in the house really view this as something that they need the support in the president's budget.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: That and holding our ground too is just a community. I think that's gonna be important. And, uh, there's a lot of tools out there. I know grassroots, Luke, you could probably expand on this a little bit with some of the tools that we have that have basically preformed like [00:43:00] letters of support that go to your senators or your representatives mailboxes, inboxes, or their staffers at least.
It's not like the, it's not like these people on Congressional Hill are reading their emails, but still going to their staffers and they're getting those messages. Luke, do you wanna, uh, talk about that a little bit?
Lucas Mayfield: Yeah, yeah. Um, I mean, we wanna flood the, flood the system with a cohesive and unified approach across organizations and ensure folks are educated and moving in the same direction, you know, north to south, not coming at it from east to west, while 70% of the, the movement is going north, south, uh, grassroots.
Once we have the clarification, we have the tools on our website via you join campaigns and those will start being populated. And it's as simple as [00:44:00] five to six clicks, and those go directly to your state representatives, uh, and federal representatives with the same distinct, cohesive message. Um, and the, just to add on to what, uh, Randy and Max and Yvette have said, the, the beauty of this is there is bipartisan support.
There is not by baren support across the board for all things that are going on right now in Congress. Sure. Um, and some of that is out of our control. Um, there's unforeseen obstacles that we are gonna have to overcome. The way we overcome that is by coming together and spreading the word in a unified manner and all trying to reach that same end state.
And we're doing that. We've been successful. Look at the change that's happened over the last, since [00:45:00] 2019. It's some of that shit. I spent 18 years with the Forest Service and most of the time I sat on a hillside with my bitch buddy talking about what needed to happen. It's happening. It's awesome. It's not perfect.
We have the ability to influence it. This is a proposal. We have the floor, we can make it right. We will tailor our campaigns. We will share those campaigns. Grassroots doesn't take any of the credit. The credit belongs to everybody, multiple organizations. And above and beyond that, the boots on the ground, the people putting Nomex pants on eight inch plus leather boots.
I hope you don't st your pants if you're out there . Um, so I mean, our job grassroots from our perspective, we are gonna arm everyone with the [00:46:00] information necessary and the tools needed to easily and cohesively influence legislators to do the right thing. And that's the most important part of this shit.
It's bipartisan and it is the right. For multiple decades, we have had extremely quiet professionals that have suffered in quiet and not said shit over this past short while. In reality, three plus years, people aren't being quiet. People are speaking up. The, the best and the brightest within the agency and outside of the agencies are starting to paint the picture of what right looks like.
And we have the right ears and we have to continue that
Anchor Point Podcast Host: 100%. Man, like you said, over the past three years, more has happened, uh, for the benefit of the wildland firefighting community than over the last [00:47:00] arguably 50 years. . So this, wow, these movements do work. Mm-hmm. , look at how much everybody has done out there.
And that's not just including grassroots and diffy. That's every wildland firefighter out there who's tooting that horn, so to speak, or just amplifying voices. It's pretty incredible. But one thing at a time. Right. So let's talk about, we got the, we got the bipartisan infrastructure law passed, right? It's, it's a law now, but that has a expiration date.
Like we're saying now, this new budget proposal, let's talk about some of the things that were proposed in it. Can we do that? I mean, there's not a lot of specifics we can talk about, but what are some of the things that were proposed in there? You mentioned portal of portal. We can start with that if you guys want to.
Randy Irwin: Hey, Brandon, I got, I got a take off here.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: No worries. Hey Randy, thank you for joining us. I
Randy Irwin: appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for all you guys do. Appreciate you. Thanks.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Happy St. Patrick's.
Randy Irwin: Bye.[00:48:00]
Anchor Point Podcast Host: All right, there we go. So, back to the questions you guys, uh, feel comfortable to ask that, the
Lucas Mayfield: portal to portal question, that's gonna
Anchor Point Podcast Host: be one of those elephant in the room questions that I know a lot of people that are listening to this want to hear what was proposed. Now, this is not a guarantee of what's going to come out, so let me be explicitly clear about that.
But what was proposed,
Lucas Mayfield: I, i have it in front of me if you want me to spiel it off. Max and Yvette, go for
Anchor Point Podcast Host: it. Yeah, yeah,
Lucas Mayfield: absolutely. This is just for service, but I think in, in all respects, in relation to workforce, it's similar for D O I, what I'm about to spout off firefighter compensation reform in the president's budget, 180 million.
The funding will allow the agency to implement a new pay structure for [00:49:00] firefighters that includes a special pay rate salary table for all firefighters, one through 15. Um, again, it's a sliding scale starting at 36% going to 1.5%. Uh, we are seeking, cause I saw a question in the comment box, um, clarification on what that is and what the justification is, uh, between that sliding scale and what Bill offered in the 20 K to 50%, um, included in this also as portal to portal pay for 24 hours while on fire Assign.
We're still looking for clarification on the definition of portal to portal pay, premium pay differential, 50% of base does it occur for the eight hours you're sleeping after eight hours of base and eight hours of overtime the maintenance of hazard pay. So hazard [00:50:00] pay will still exist. And I will say cuz there's people that are poking holes in this already, we need the clarification.
Um, and we need the, we need the, the comparison between bill and this. And then I do want to note that it might have been, I think it was less than 10 years ago, it might have been 13 years ago. O P M wrote a response to the U S D A talking about, uh, had to do with pay raises. And at that time, op p m stance in writing to a couple different senators was that a 4.5% raise for federal wildland firefighters was too expensive.
So just think of that [00:51:00] movement from a raise that potentially starts at 36% and a decade ago, 4.5% with a bunch of quiet professionals that weren't talking was too expensive. So a lot of shifted. We're not saying it's right, but we need clarification to be able to explain it to folks. Um, increase in wildland fire management salary and expenses, 69 million will go towards the cost of living increase, which to my knowledge, I think is at 4.7%.
And 259 million for firefighter capacity increase, uh, allows for the potential to hire. If you can find the bodies 970 more firefighters, um, and to include the use of hiring in [00:52:00] retention incentives. This will allow the agency to continue the progress of creating a more full-time year-round workforce.
And on that, I will go back to the point of clarification. We want work to rest Definition expanded to include fire seasons and fire careers, not operational assignments. We do not want to see. The attempt to squeeze more blood out of the same stone and come back to the same ship that we're at right now, where we're dealing with people that are broken, hurt, suicidal, alcoholic, depressed, facing mental health issues.
We need that work life balance and flexibility is the root cause of many issues that are currently being faced. From my perspective. Firefighter Mental Health and [00:53:00] Wellbeing. Um, there was a down payment of, I believe, 120 million to stand up a joint comprehensive health and wellbeing program across agencies.
Initially they thought that the year over year cost to support that would be in the four to $5 million range. After investigating it, it's in the $20 million range. And again, credit goes to the agencies that have come together to push for this shit. Uh, cuz the Forest Services requesting 10 million, DOI 10 million to support this program on a year over year basis, it's needed.
Again, in my perspective, me as a person, not grassroots. Th this is the attempt to provide something after something's broke. We have to set up a system that sets people up for success, doesn't take care of 'em after they're broke. We still need it. [00:54:00] It's imperative. Folks are hurting, things are messed up.
We've gotta have this, but we also have to have a system that puts, sets people up for success. And then firefighter housing, uh, 50 million. We've been told that this funding will be protected and the funding allows for urgent and necessary firefighter housing, facility maintenance and repair. On the DOI side, I think it's 22 million total of 77 million.
To ensure that the rat infested houses you live in have the opportunity to become rodent free and livable.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Well, that's another thing to you, Luke, is, uh, the deferment process with, with maintenance as well, right? Is that something that's gonna be, as you said, it was gonna be protected, so is that deferment, that deferred maintenance program?
Now that's gonna be something that's not going to be able to be done anymore with this new proposal. Well,
Lucas Mayfield: I can't speak to that. I am sure there are all sorts of gray [00:55:00] areas and, and side doors to do whatever you want. But what we have been told with the money requested in the FY 24 president's budget, the 50,000,020 2 million respectively is protected and will go towards housing improvements or, uh, the construction of housing.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Copy that.
Lucas Mayfield: And, and I do, I gotta, I have to say, cause I don't think it gets said enough. Um, people within the agency do want to see positive change for federal wildland firefighters. I know I spent a shitload of my career talking shit about the people that I thought were not doing anything. These people that we're speaking to in the fire and aviation management team, O W F.
Whoever it is, like the effort
Anchor Point Podcast Host: is
Lucas Mayfield: being put [00:56:00] out there. Yeah. To provide true change, like this budget is an indicator of it. The housing, the acknowledgement like they're taking Whaty has said what grassroots has said, the identified pillars and they have, they do have your back, but there is a lot of shit that goes into this.
At the beginning of grassroots, we thought we could stand up a web website that educated people and provide a white paper about a paradigm shift and ba. Everybody was gonna take that because it was a good idea and make shit happen. Four years later, I'm on a podcast with all of you amazing people.
Yvette Piacsek: And there's still barriers out there that we're Yes, ma'am.
Tripping across and trying to knock down and yeah, it's, it's gonna take a lot more of this to make what we really need out there. Um, [00:57:00] and so I think I have the same slide as you the, um, . So thank you for going through the details. I just, if I, if it's okay with everybody, I wanna make a couple comments. Um, so again, this is the budget proposal, right?
They rolled this out, invited us. To have a call to celebrate, like, look, we heard you. Isn't this great? And we started . Kobe immediately started asking some, some tough questions. All the questions that, you know, Luke said at the beginning of this, that grassroots has, nephew has 'em too. And we started to ask some of them and they just don't know yet.
So, um, you know, we are going to stay on them. We're gonna see, uh, as time goes on, what information they can share with us. One thing they told us was that they were gonna put out, uh, a, a public release with the draft legislation that would implement this proposed budget [00:58:00] language. Um, they said it was supposed to come out on Monday.
I haven't seen it yet, but that was supposed to include the actual salary table. For the, uh, special base rate and of course dying to see that. Right. Um, as soon as
Anchor Point Podcast Host: that comes out, there's a lot of people out there dying to see that document. I can tell you
Yvette Piacsek: that. Yep. So as soon as it's in my grabby little pause, we will blast it.
Um, I'm sure you'll, you know, through all of this network, we'll be able to, to comb through it with a fine tooth comb and find out exactly what we need to know so that if it passes that it's implemented appropriately, you know, they royally screwed up how they issued the pay from the infrastructure bill.
Um, I hope that we can avoid those same hiccups just by having better communication, you know, anticipating, um, more than I think the people did last year when they were trying to, to figure out, or, you know, last year and a half trying to figure out how to do, um, the [00:59:00] infrastructure pay, pay bump. So, um, Yeah, they didn't give us any specifics really that were worth relaying on that call last week.
We don't have the special pay rate table, we don't have the draft legislation. The devil's gonna be in those details, just like Luke said. Uh, and we are asking the same, the same questions. We are hand in glove in this, um, to find out because they're your questions, they're firefighters questions.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Um, and I
Lucas Mayfield: believe, right, like it's out of the agency hands.
Am I correct Yvette? And it's sitting with O M B right now that needs to vet their, I go through their process and say
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Yay or nay or, oh,
Yvette Piacsek: yeah. There's, there's a lot of, a lot of people involved. Um, yeah. To make sure that you know it, it's, it's primarily the legisla. Folks, but yeah, there's some, some O M B wrangling that has to happen.
Um, you know, they're the bean counters of the federal government and they see these giant [01:00:00] numbers and that haven't been in past budgets, and they really have to be convinced. Um, so, you know, kudos to everybody in the administration that did that arm wrestling with om B just to get this proposal in the shape that it's, um, there's a lot of people that worked behind the scenes to get it this far.
Um,
Anchor Point Podcast Host: so well you bring a very good topic right there actually, uh, going into like the disconnect between, uh, these legislators and the boots on the ground is they, the legislators, they don't speak fire language at the end of the day. They have never walked a, a single like step. The boots they're wearing on the ground there, the frontline people are, are wearing every day.
So it's hard to. I can understand it being difficult to convey that message in a, in a meaningful way that these congressional representatives would understand. Is that one of these challenges that you're facing?
Max Alonzo: Uh, you know, the, the truth is, is that just a few years ago, they didn't know that this workforce was out there.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Um,
Max Alonzo: uh, that, that's the honest [01:01:00] truth. The first time I, I went up on the hill, uh, quite some years ago. Jesus, no, no. Nobody, nobody knew who we were. They didn't know we were out there. I, we had to explain every time we sat in an office, what we did, that we worked for the federal government. Um, and, and, and the issues that, that we see.
So I, I think just recently, like, like I've said before, just the fact that, that people are, like Luke said, standing up and really taking ownership of their, of their careers and, and they're just kind of at the breaking point to where they're gonna stand up and, and say something instead of being quiet professionals, uh, has made the change.
So, but it's still hard. I mean, it, we, we we're still explaining, uh, you know, the,
Anchor Point Podcast Host: the barriers that we have
Yvette Piacsek: and it's not just
Lucas Mayfield: the folks on, look at where people sit, you know, west Coast versus Midwest, east Coast. Like I, I find it amazing [01:02:00] the amount of just education. That has taken place and needs to continue to take place.
And I see, uh, Munoz, it's important for firefighters to get out there on the hill because they don't know. And we built a culture over decades of if a reporter talks to you, tell 'em to go to your supervisor, Goen the
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Hills. Let me call the PIO . Yeah. Like,
Lucas Mayfield: we're better or worse. Like I love the, the idea of that.
But what it's done is set up no knowledge of what it is that our federal
Anchor Point Podcast Host: folks sacrifice. As
Lucas Mayfield: fire seasons have transitioned to fire
Anchor Point Podcast Host: years and the response
Lucas Mayfield: areas have changed into communities burning down and protecting life and property more than a wilderness [01:03:00] area fire. With a couple folks doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that, like it is full on triage at a catastrophic level, and the Department of Defense has said that us wild land fires are one of the biggest threats to the us.
Now it's time to support the shit out of it and ensure that we are recruiting and retaining the best and brightest civilian operators that, in my opinion,
Anchor Point Podcast Host: exist in this country.
I second
Max Alonzo: everything you said there. Look.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: No, it's, it's arguably one of the largest professional firefighting organizations in the world. One of, at least, maybe not the, but uh, yeah, I mean, why aren't we treated like professionals and finally over, you know, decades and we're finally starting to get that ball rolling.
So, [01:04:00]
Lucas Mayfield: as far as your dad, or in August, Up until now.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: And that's, that's the people that are listening to this that don't understand that you're only a firefighter when you're in the ground, but you're just an unskilled laborer when you're working. Yeah, that's, there's some gravity behind that cynicism there.
And it's a lot of truth and it sucks. But now we're actually getting treated like professionals are starting to get treated like professionals, like a professional firefighting workforce. Um, as far as some other things that are gonna be big topics and kind of elephant in the room. Questions regarding this pay proposal, let's talk about dispatch.
I know this is gonna be the hard one. And have you guys heard anything about dispatchers being included in this?
Lucas Mayfield: I know that there was a summit held, um, to discuss this further, there's been multiple efforts, I think across the board, nfi, grassroots, um, and a thousand [01:05:00] percent. Dispatch is part of the fire family and we are advocating for the inclusion
Anchor Point Podcast Host: of dispatch of, of
Lucas Mayfield: all fire, regardless of the, the support mechanism from training to dispatch to whatever, into all of this movement.
Uh, the pay, the benefits, 60 and potentially, I've heard rumors that dispatch is gonna be included, but fire needs to be included. It's a system. It's not just operators on the ground, it's the people that facilitate firefighters getting to the smoke report, the people that facilitate the training that people take on and take to move up the ladder.
I mean, it, it's, it's a system. It's not just people in the, the trucks getting to the incident. It's everyone supporting them. [01:06:00] To successfully get to the incident and walk away from the incident or deal with something super shitty that
Anchor Point Podcast Host: happens on the incident. Oh, absolutely man. And that's another thing too, is like you, I mean, when you're fighting a logistical thing of the logistical battle, which fire very much is if you can't communicate or if you can't move things logistically, well, you're not gonna win that battle.
Sorry. It's just no point. I mean, if you can't talk to dispatch, well, let's put it into context. If you're an IC five and or IC four, IC three, doesn't matter what level of IC you are, try and run a fire without dispatch. You can't do it. So, absolutely, it's my opinion that they should be 100% included.
Yvette Piacsek: And when they first announced that dispatch was going to be not include, well, they didn't announce it.
We pushed them on it and they immediately were quizzical, like, oh, dispatch isn't in it. Um, and then the person who made the decision, um, did say that, well, the line had to be drawn [01:07:00] somewhere. Um, and so consistently on every single call we have been pushing back that the line never should have been drawn there.
No, absolutely not. And that's the people that just don't get it, um, drew a line. And so, um, I seen Leslie's comments, you know, we are optimistic that we're gonna get dispatch in there at some point. I'm not sure how. Um, and there's been no commitments obviously, from the agency on it, but it's not, not a battle that, um, we are yielding on at all.
Uh, we've heard you all loud and clear.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Same
Lucas Mayfield: with grassroots. Yeah. And I'll say we have consistently and regularly. Pushed for the inclusion, inclusion of dispatch into this series. We may not have publicly, um, done the best job of messaging that, but we have a hundred percent of the time pushed for the inclusion of dispatch into this oh [01:08:00] 4 56.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Oh, absolutely. So as far as any other hot button concerns that we've been hearing from the com, the community and it's relation to this pay proposal, this budget proposal rather, what else are some other things? Some other, uh, I guess details if you have them. Rough details. I mean, like we said earlier, this is not a guarantee.
This is just what we've been briefed on. The documentation hasn't come out yet, so we don't have anything finite to go off of as proof. However. What about something like, uh, retirement, like the, I know there was a lot of talk out there about, um, retirement being included into your, uh, your overtime being included into your retirement and your hazard pay.
Now I don't know if you heard anything about that, if you can confirm or deny any of that, but what's your opinion on that? It's
Lucas Mayfield: grassroots direction to continue to advocate for the inclusion of hazard pay and or overtime towards retirement benefit [01:09:00] calculations. Um, and that's part of our direction moving forward, but it is not currently a part of anything on the table, but it is a direct, um,
Anchor Point Podcast Host: focus
Lucas Mayfield: area of grassroots for 2023 until we see it happen.
And hopefully my voice is back by then.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: What about the nippy side of the house?
Yvette Piacsek: Absolutely. Same for Neffy. Um, I, you know, we're also pushing hard for the, the temp buyback this year. That actually has, that's a huge one, a good shot of passing. Um, but again, that's not, you know, the agency doing, um, you know, any sort of gifting that's gonna be Congress.
So, um, but yeah, a hundred percent overtime should be part of your high three. Um, if, if it's okay, I wanted to talk a little bit about, um, mental health and then housing too. Yeah, take it one. Cool. Thanks. [01:10:00] Um, mental health, I, I mean, Luke said it earlier, we're on the same page with respect to that. Um, the infrastructure bill had.
Quite a bit of change toward that initiative. And so from the NFI side of the house, we pushed hard to have what is basically a predecisional type, early, early involvement and a seat at the table, um, to build that program. Um, they, after several months of me pretty forcefully asking, they said, sure, we'll put Nefi on it.
Um, and then mysteriously like things didn't get scheduled, we weren't invited to meetings. So I don't know if I fully, if, if there is a. Fully baked program out there on mental health that we're gonna be learning about in the next few months. Um, what I do know is that we're gonna have, um, we've been invited and, and grassroots luckily has two to a [01:11:00] summit that's coming up, um, with quite a few stakeholders, um, in April that's solely about mental health.
Um, so nephew's gonna participate in that. Um, we, we will be sending one person at least, um, who'll try and get. But ultimately what we wanna do is, you know, negotiate this program at the bargaining table wherever possible, uh, to supplement. Um, the money is huge, but it matters how it's being used. And, and like Luke said, we're concerned that it seems to be dealing with the problems after they arise.
We wanna see a whole lot more for prevention. Um, and that overlaps with, you know, other issues that we're gonna be bargaining in the master agreement, um, in the fire article schedules and, um, you know, time off and r and r, all of that. Um, and it, and it, it patches into work-life balance. You know, this is a budget that, um, you know, [01:12:00] works great for a lot of our, our younger, um, you know, less senior firefighters, but folks that are mid-career.
I think we're gonna have to work a lot of more benefits through the master agreement for a lot of those folks. Um, and that's, you know, that's nephew's, nephew's, Bailey Wick right there. That's not Congress.
Lucas Mayfield: I'll just say on the Comprehensive Health and Wellbeing program. For my perspective, and I wish we had, uh, one of the subcommittee members for the comprehensive health and wellbeing, uh, pillar two for grassroots.
Um, they have put some of the best people that I could ever hope for in charge of building these programs, but it does take time to build these programs and they're, they have fantastic people in place within the agencies. [01:13:00] They're maintaining dialogue. Inviting the right people to the, you know, like the April 14th meeting.
Um, but it's not gonna be perfect right away. But I think that federal employees should be pleased with the folks that have been put in charge of building this foundation of comprehensive health and wellbeing. And I am extremely pleased with, uh, that process and this effort that is, is going on. And I think there's a lot to, to figure out, learn and
Anchor Point Podcast Host: be able to spread the word on.
Yvette Piacsek: Yeah, I think the, the, the foundation is there. The devil again, is in the details so that we're
Anchor Point Podcast Host: building the plan as we're flying it.
Yvette Piacsek: Oh my God. Seriously. So on the housing stuff, um, [01:14:00] there was a question about, um, We asked in our initial meeting, is that gonna be only to catch up on deferred maintenance?
Fun fact, I guess it's, there's 250 million backed up in deferred maintenance. Oh, we, shit, so we have 50, that's a fifth of what we need. Um, and, and my understanding is that it is gonna be pretty much for maintenance, not for new construction, which is not what we've been pushing for. I mean, we, we want maintenance, but there's some of these, these buildings that just need to be raised.
Um,
Anchor Point Podcast Host: oh yeah.
Yvette Piacsek: I've lived in them. Yeah. Yeah. So like. Year and a half ago, um, I was at the Neffi Training Center in southern Maryland with a, a bunch of wildland firefighters who came for their first steward training. And we were just, you know, kicking back after class drinking beers. And they were telling me [01:15:00] about the rats and, and, and the leaky roofs and the busted pipes.
And I was like, old, holy cow. This is how you guys are living. Mm-hmm. . And so that kind of, you know, settled with me and we started knowing that we were gonna go into contract bargaining this year. Um, I, I started researching it and started picking apart what our possibilities might be to fix this. Um, and this 50 million, um, I'm Max told me to, to not be humble
Um, so I'll just say it like, Got this 50 million. So we had asked for OPMs help, um, with the housing issues and I started asking for conversations with people at O M B on housing last year. Um, we finally got this discussion with, with the right person at [01:16:00] OM b um, about a month ago. And, um, I I, I told them your stories, what I heard when we were sitting drinking beers and I said, you know, this is hurting our ability not just to retain, but also to recruit.
Um, and, and we need this money. And she heard us and she was able, like that was perfect timing cuz she was able to take our survey results that all of you provided. Um, some of my legal research, she went and talked about it with their office of general counsel. And she was able to make the sell to her higher ups, um, to slide this 50 million in at the last minute for forest service.
Um, so that was no easy get, uh, but we did it and, and it was thanks in large part to, you know, all of you responding to that survey and helping me get the most compelling stories to, to get through to these people [01:17:00] who came to this call with like prepared comments ready to just like blow me off. And I, I, I, I really was kind of bothered by that.
Um, And we got 50 mil. So this is great, but it's really not enough either. No,
Anchor Point Podcast Host: not anything close. And I know
Yvette Piacsek: it's not, it's No, it's not. It's something though, it be small steps. Right. It's more than what we would've had, honestly. So I'm happy with it. Um, and, and I, and we represent, um, folks in Park service too.
You know, they, uh, we got them involved too, and I made sure that we shouted out d uh, interior when we were having that discussion. Nice.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Yeah. So I guess, go ahead. Oh, I was gonna just cue up the next question, but go ahead. So you can go ahead first, man. Yeah, I, I, I was just gonna
Max Alonzo: say, uh,
Anchor Point Podcast Host: nevermind. Go ahead.
Lost my train of thought. . We're good. No worries. So, I guess, uh, with all these other [01:18:00] things that are been implemented in this pa, this budget proposal now, I guess the last elephant in the room, that's kind of a hot button topic now that I think about it. Cause I forgot about it earlier and. Kind of brought myself back to it, sorry.
A D H D brain, uh, wage grade. So with the paying classification that's, uh, attached to this proposal, where are we looking with the wage, ga, wage grade folks? Because we need those dozers out there. We need all this wage grade folks in the field, and they are very much a part of us, uh, as the, of the wild end firefighting workforce.
Just as much as dispatchers, just as much as the hotshots, just as much as everybody else who's operational. So where do they stand in this whole thing?
If we can answer that,
Yvette Piacsek: I, I don't know any intel on that one. Um, you know, it's something that our leaders have asked in, in our phone calls. Um, absolutely. But we don't, we just don't have those details yet. So, I don't know. Lucas, have you heard anything? [01:19:00]
Lucas Mayfield: I mean, we're, we're pushing for it in the same form and fashion that we pushed for dispatch and.
What we have been told is that, uh, the pay raises and the benefits aren't necessarily tied to the series and the classification and that the considerations are there and will be potentially available for folks outside. So wage grade, um, and I thought I saw, oh, and militia. Militia, a lot of these, um, pay provisions are being at least proposed in a manner that are gonna benefit folks inside of fire, outside of fire wage grade.
But we need clarification and I'm with Yvette on that. [01:20:00] It, it's another, um, point that that needs clarification.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: That's one of those things too, is think that, uh, this conversation, it can't happen behind closed doors on Capitol Hill. It has to include the boots on the ground in all, all forms of that.
Everybody needs to be represented. If they're gonna roll out something, everybody needs a say in what they, they need, right? Cause this isn't just a one, you know, operational, federal, wildland firefighter thing. It's many other tertiary and ary things. So the more people that we can get raising a stink about it and emailing their representatives or making calls or whatever, the better.
I mean, joining grassroots, joining nfi, joining both of them, I mean, that's, that's gonna be pivotal to our success and your success for the Oops on the ground that are listening to this. So it's up to us. It's up to us. Well, yeah, I'm getting too, oh, go ahead. I,
Max Alonzo: I was just gonna just kinda add to that, [01:21:00] um, I try to explain to people that, that, uh, we're.
Yeah, sure. You know, we're, we're able to get on the hill, we're able to, to talk to our representatives and, and the administration and make those relationships. But, but none of this happens without everybody. I mean, what I, our organizations are nothing but a tool. Right. And, and if nobody's gonna pick up that tool and learn how to use it, then not a lot's gonna get done.
But if you get a whole lot of people picking up a lot of tools, you can cut a lot of line. You can get a lot of work done. Um, and, and that's really what it's all about, getting everybody involved. I can't, I can't stress it enough. Everybody has to be their own advocate. Sure, we're gonna be your advocates also.
But you have to be part of this. You, you have to step up. You have to write letters. Be part of one of these organizations or both, or, or, or start your own, I don't care, , but whatever you gotta do, but make things happen. Um, you, I've spent a lot of years sitting around bitching also, [01:22:00] and, and, uh, I finally realized, you know, if you're gonna eat, you gotta go get some food, so nobody's
Anchor Point Podcast Host: gonna do it for you.
That, and you can't present a problem without a possible solution. Right, exactly. Interesting thing to tie into what you're saying there as far as like third party, like people that really don't have any skin in this federal, uh, game. Right. This pay classification, retirement, all the mental health stuff they do.
I'm talking Exactly. And that's the thing too that, uh, I think it gets oftentimes overlooked. Like we have community supporters from outside of the federal agencies like Cal Fire. So for instance, Cal Fire, I know a lot of Cal Fire folks and municipal departments support these, uh, these pieces of legislation.
But who are some of those, uh, other organizations that are supporting us directly? Maybe not my name, my, maybe indirectly like promoting our cause, not necessarily like in a financial context, but Yeah. Who are some of those folks out there?
Max Alonzo: Um, there's, there's some smaller organizations that are just [01:23:00] supporting wildland firefighters in general, I think.
And, and I think a lot of us know 'em. Uh, you know, you know, we could go through a list of names. Um, but I, I mean per personally, people that have reached out to me, um, are smaller organizations like ripping lips, uh, hop Shot. Um, those community organizations are really important, um, because they bring the people around them to one place, and that,
Anchor Point Podcast Host: that
Max Alonzo: empowers people to get involved right there.
So it, it gives us the opportunity to go speak to a lot of people in one place and, and get people involved. So I think those are really important, but, but I think we really need to look at a, a, a bigger picture. Like you were saying. I mean, there's, everybody in this country should really have some sort of investment in this.
I mean, we're, we're living, where does our water come from, right? I mean, our water comes from our, it's our natural resources, our forests,
Anchor Point Podcast Host: uh,
Max Alonzo: these cities are supplied with water by our forest. If we don't have firefighters protecting [01:24:00] our forests, we're not gonna have water. Um, I mean, that, that's, that's just the basics, right?
Uh, it, it, the towns, we have towns burning up because we don't have enough skill. Wildland firefighters up there. It's not just unskilled labor. We know that. Um, and I, and I think it's time for all of us to stand up and explain to people what we actually do, or not what I do anymore, but, but what, what they actually do.
So,
Anchor Point Podcast Host: yeah. But that's another thing too, is like we've all been there and done that. We've done our, a little bit of time and in the field for my, my particular context, but, um, the rest of everybody else out there who's part of grassroots in Duffy, they're still even active. Yeah. I mean, that's huge. Well,
Lucas Mayfield: and, and I just wanna add, you know, to Max's sentiment, we have two competing objectives, you know, as that have come from the 10 year wildland fire strategy and multiple other publications.
But there's the proactive need for true [01:25:00] hazardous fuels movement and a prescribed fire workforce. And a workforce that is managing land. And we have the immediate need of a robust, flexible, and fluid suppression workforce. Right now, the expectation is that your robust, flexible, and fluid suppression resource becomes year round to complete two competing objectives.
There's not enough time in the year. No. We need to advocate for the land management side and for the suppression side, and they need to be not separate, but the priorities need to be inverse of each other. Where you've got your suppression operators who are training to operate and deal with the worst case scenario, [01:26:00] and then you've got people.
That are in place to be the farm system for the suppression workforce and land management, leadership and workforce, and start completing this shit because our firefighters are burned out and they're gonna continue to be burned out until we have defined the capacity needed to compete to accurately put the right amount of boots on the ground to simultaneously meet
Anchor Point Podcast Host: objectives.
A hundred percent, man, it's like two sides of Velcro, the hook and loop side. And that's your fire program overall. And it's land management goals. You can't separate them or else it doesn't work. Right? So love that metaphor, . Go ahead and chew. Uh, take that one. Go ahead and steal that one. . I think metaphors so.
Listen guys, I [01:27:00] got about 10 minutes left on my, uh, time before I gotta jump off, but, um, if you guys are cool with it, I can go back through some comments and read a couple and see if we can answer 'em to the best of our abilities. So, uh,
Yvette Piacsek: I see one on
Anchor Point Podcast Host: PDs, let's take it away. Let's see, which one was that?
That was, uh, Adam and the comments here. At least that,
Yvette Piacsek: yeah, at least Adam.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: There's a couple of them. So that's the first one I saw with PDs in there. So let's talk Adam. Um, as a group has discussed new PDs, many coworkers and I are concerned about the, they will be used as an opportunity to add duties, so adding to the burnout factor, uh, and not meet the original intent of accurately reflecting our duties.
Yvette Piacsek: Yeah, so this one, oh, , where do I start? That's a big one. Um, yeah, I, you know, we had. Great, really smart. Some of, some of my favorite people that I work with in this community, um, involved in reviewing those [01:28:00] position description drafts and pointing out, you know, where they fell short. Um, we asked for more time.
We got more time. Uh, everybody in the higher levels, like Luke said, uh, within the agency, but also at opm, they wanna get this right. Um, it's hard to get it right. Um, you know, they're dusting off this old, uh, 4 56, um, rather than building something from scratch. And so, but they can't just copy and paste. And I think that that's what they thought they were gonna be able to do.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: And, and well, they, they couldn't do that in the first place because the game has changed from 40 years ago when these PDs were originally written. ,
Yvette Piacsek: but they didn't know that until we started telling them, you know, you're leaving this out. This is not a may perform. This is a grade controlling duty that you should include, and so be it.
If it results in an upgrade, we need to have people paid for their work that they're actually doing. So, and we need the pipeline
Anchor Point Podcast Host: for [01:29:00] upward mobility as well.
Yvette Piacsek: Exactly. So, you know, we have been told that the, the career ladder progression is being incorporated in this, so that's huge. Uh, we still have major concerns about whether all of the grade controlling duties are actually going to be included.
Um, last I heard is we are going to be shown, uh, uh, grassroots too, and I'm, I'm hoping that we can, um, you know, get together and coordinate on, in, in our review of the position descriptions when they come out again, uh, and, and, and do a joint, uh, comment on, on where it falls short still. Um, certainly if, you know, grassroots is an approach and we are, I'm gonna call you Luke and we're gonna coordinate
Um, cause this is too important. We just need all voices and all eyeballs, um, to make sure we get this right. What would be an absolute shame is after all this work, [01:30:00] Um, if, if they come out with a series that still doesn't cut it, what a waste. Um, and you know, I do feel like this is our chance to get a good series, and I'm England to, I don't even know if it's me per se, but, um, I think the reality is, is if we get a series that is accurate, you all will be paid more because of the work that you already are doing and you deserve credit for it.
You need to have that in your, you know, credentials. Um, it, and it's just not happening yet. So stay tuned on that. Hopefully, you know, within the next month or two I'll have more to report out through our, our various source, um, communication methods. Um, I know that our leaders have been pretty good about getting sort of the latest and greatest out on Instagram and, and Twitter.
And so watch, watch there for whatever I have to share. That's how it comes out. [01:31:00] Yeah. And
Anchor Point Podcast Host: uh, I guess that kind of ties into the next question that I'm gonna ask as well to just follow up with, uh, the comparisons between the b i l, the bipartisan infrastructure law and this new pay budget and pay scale in the budget proposal.
Now, a lot of people out there, I know they're really pissed that OT does not apply to that 50% or $20,000 cap, right? I don't know it. Let's try and explain this sliding scale a little bit more finitely to where we can kind of say, Hey, you know that 36% of the GS three level and it's stretched out across, you know, these, this sliding scale up to GS 15 right Now, since that 50% bonus of your base was not included into your OT rate, this one would be right, because it is a base pay thing.
Yeah, it's uh, I dunno how to really put that into context better if someone else could.
Lucas Mayfield: It's a pay table that'll be permanent and. It'll be permanent, but [01:32:00] what is the comparable to what Bill offered and what are the considerations that were included in this graduated scale from 36% to 1.5%. And what is the justification from not saying Bill was 50% or 20 K?
Why wasn't that automatically built into this new special pay table? And we don't know, like that's what we're asking for clarification of. And what is the, what are the benefits? It accounts to overtime and hazard pay. It accounts towards retirement calculations. It potentially reduces the amount of overtime hours needed.
On a yearly basis to make ends meet and to pay mortgages, et cetera. Like there's [01:33:00] a lot of pros that, from my perspective, I could spout off. But what I can say is we've asked for a clarification and what was used to come up with 36% to 1.5 on that GS 15 top end level, and then it's a proposal. So what inputs can we provide back to be like, yeah, you're not wrong, but this is right and this is what we wanna see.
But until I know that I can't come at folks and say, yeah or no, or kind of sorta , but I can't say at face value. I support the shit out of the FY 24 budget and I'm grateful the shit of the administration's work to get this a proposal. But we still have the [01:34:00] opportunity and the chance to vet, verify, field test and say, yeah, you're right here, but this is, this is where you're wrong and this is what we wanna
Anchor Point Podcast Host: see.
So we still have the opportunity to fine tune it and dial it into where it's what right should look like. Right. For
Lucas Mayfield: sure. Gotta organize, advocate, and get the community together to get this message across. Regardless of how you get it across. I could, it does not matter to me. I'm an advocate for advocacy.
Join nfi. Go to the grassroots website, do whatever
Anchor Point Podcast Host: it is that
Lucas Mayfield: floats your boat and. Come together, cohesive. Uh, we gotta be together and we gotta push this shit as a community and as a fire family. And we can no longer be quiet [01:35:00] professionals. It is time to make
Anchor Point Podcast Host: this shit happen. Oh, absolutely. That and getting, uh, third party support as well.
Tell your family. Tell your friends, tell the people that are not in fire. Tell Cal fire. Tell municipal apartments. Tell all your buddies gonna support the shit out of this cuz we can't do neither.
Lucas Mayfield: I wanna see the army of moms get involved. . Oh yeah.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: So listen up kids, tell your mom what it's really like on the line and see how pissed she gets.
Yeah, don't mess with moms. No. No. All right. Well, I mean that pretty much covers, I think all of the comments except for we had one last one, uh, about contracting. I don't know if it helps, but contracting is required to pay 15 an hour as the first year, 1650 plus four 80 an hour for health benefits, and a max of 56 hours have paid time off.
I don't know if we can really go into the contracting sign because I don't know a damn thing about it. And yeah, I mean, I do know that I can [01:36:00] say that a rising tide will raise all ships, and I'm sure that it'll be fallout benefits for the contractors, for the state departments, for the municipal departments, the people that are kind of the have nots.
If we get this across the line, then now all those other people that are trying to get the same benefits, well guess what? You have a playbook for it. Now, I wish I could answer your question, man, but could you guys speak on that at all?
Yvette Piacsek: Contracting. Sorry. Go ahead, max.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: I, I, I was just
Max Alonzo: gonna say, if, if you're a contract firefighter at, at this point, um, and, and we get, we get all of this stuff done, you know, come on over to the feds, you know, we, we need retention.
We need a workforce. Um, you, you've got the skills. Uh, if, if it looks better over here, hopefully it does, uh, come on over.
Yvette Piacsek: And our goal long term, we think all of these jobs should be federal jobs. Mm-hmm. , um, and, [01:37:00] and, and, and, and equivalent across the board, I know that, you know, it is more expensive for the taxpayer to, to, to pay a contractor through contracted workforce then by just having them be feds.
Um, so, you know, contracting is, is tough because we need contractors. Absolutely. We, we need that help. Um, But we also want, you know, as many people in the cover of, of federal service as possible. So, um, right now we're worried that they, um, the agency might be, um,
contracting out a little bit more than what, you know, we really think is, is needed. And we're worried about losing those FTE slots. Um, you know, it's tough. We, we, this is inherently governmental work at, at the end of the day.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Um, and I don't think you're gonna, the contractors though, from the, um, the other sides of that argument though, maybe.[01:38:00]
I don't think you, I don't think you can personally, and I'm not sorry, just talking about federal lands, I'm talking about like your state projects, your private projects, your infrastructure projects. There's still gonna be tons and shitloads of work out there because it's all accomplishing the same goal of fuel.
Hazardous fuels reduction, right? But yep. Define,
Lucas Mayfield: define capacity and then see where the tools can best be used. Yeah, once you define capacity, then I think we know how to best use contractors and, and they're a fantastic resource and they're not going away. But if we don't define capacity and create systems that adequately and accurately use people for the best purpose that they're available for.
Exactly. And we're gonna be the same fucking spot we are right now. Exactly. Define capacity,
Anchor Point Podcast Host: please. Yeah. You need something quantifiable there. I'm talking
Lucas Mayfield: to anyone on this call, but it has [01:39:00] been described as the elephant in the room, so I want to know the capacity required for a fluid flexible. Healthy federal firefighting suppression workforce, along with the capacity needed to provide for land management and hazardous fuels reduction across tools in the
Anchor Point Podcast Host: toolbox.
I love it. That was a good answer. Yeah. Nailed it. And then I guess last but not least, cuz I gotta jam here pretty soon. I know you guys gotta jam too. Um, but Leslie, that's a great question right here. Uh, can you, let's, let's take that and not the, the higher the contractor part, let's turn that into the federal context, right?
The 37 and a half cap. Now, what's the progress with that? Is there any language whatsoever about that? Cause I, I kinda wanna say that that's kind of a bullshit. , that's, and
Lucas Mayfield: there is a workaround, but I don't know how well it's used or accessed. The Land [01:40:00] management, land Management Workforce Flexibility Act, that should allow for the hiring of folks after the age of 37 into permanent positions.
But I, there's complexities involved in that that I don't have expertise to, to answer. I think the option is there, and we should take anyone that wants to come to work.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Yeah. Hundred percent. And
Max Alonzo: I, I, I agree Luke and I, and I believe with the, the Land Management Workforce Flexibility Act, it's, uh, how much time you have with the federal government as, as a, uh, uh, temp employee, uh, that can count towards that.
Um, I, I don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure that that's how that works. So, but yeah, if you are a contractor and trying to come in after 37, I just have to agree with you, Loki, we should be taking anybody that knows how to do the work that wants to work.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Oh yeah. Those expertise and skills are very perishable over time.
The longer you're out of the game, the faster they deteriorate, so. Yep. Get, get 'em in. [01:41:00] Yeah. Well,
Lucas Mayfield: and, and stay tuned. I mean, I know everyone is concentrating on what's currently here, but we also have to be looking at what's three years ahead, what's five years ahead and, and what Right. Looks like and how we're going to get there.
We can pull holes at anything we want, but right now this shit is historic. It has not happened. It is amazing. Mm-hmm. , we gotta push for it and advocate for it, and then we gotta move on to the next
Anchor Point Podcast Host: division. Oh yeah. Our work is definitely far from completed. And, uh, if
Max Alonzo: anybody's gonna be in, uh, Washington, DC on April, uh, 12th and wants to, wants to meet up with us, we're, we're all gonna be getting together to, to, uh, to speak about this to, to some congressional
Anchor Point Podcast Host: folks.
Is that gonna be televised by any chance or streamed anywhere?
Max Alonzo: I don't know. Are you gonna be there, ?
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Yeah. Lemme pack my bags and all my equipment [01:42:00] here. Um,
Max Alonzo: well, uh, I, I, I think there will be some media coverage, but I'm not sure who
Yvette Piacsek: exactly. Yeah, we're trying to get as, as many nephew while then firefighters into Washington DC here.
Um, I, you know, grassroots is gonna be there as well. We aligned our schedules intentionally, um, to make this first run at Congress before, you know, things. Catching fire out there this summer. Um, but it's, it's gonna be a sustained campaign. We have another nephew legislative week in June, the week of June, Juneteenth June 19th, um, where we're also gonna make another big push with lots of meetings.
Um, so those of you that are interested, you know, get plugged in either for our April 10th through 12th event. Um, locals are supposed to be considering whether their finances allow them to send, uh, you know, one wild land firefighter from each local is our goal, uh, to get to town April [01:43:00] 10th through 12th.
Um, and then same for June. You know, we just, we need as many boots as we can get here to share those stories. Um, not to mention, I just wanna meet everybody finally, , instead of just getting the emails or the text. So
Anchor Point Podcast Host: I'm looking
Max Alonzo: forward to hitting the hill with you, Luke.
Lucas Mayfield: Yeah, it'll be good. And I, I hate to do it, but I gotta get outta here. Same. Yeah.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: I gotta jam too, so thank you.
Yvette Piacsek: Won't talk for hours
Anchor Point Podcast Host: now. Oh, this is a big, big topic. So, I mean, there's a lot of complexities and nuances to it, so, but Luke, that Max, thank you guys for being on the show and kind of like giving us an update from actual congressional leaders and being that, that bridge between that upper echelon of, you know, leadership and government and the boots on the ground, everybody appreciates it and you guys are doing a hell of a job.
So thank you so much. Thank you, Brandon. Thanks. Thanks, Brandon. Thank, thanks
Lucas Mayfield: Max. And I'm [01:44:00] personally just trying to keep up, so I appreciate the opportunity. . Happy
Anchor Point Podcast Host: St. Patrick's Day, everybody. .
Lucas Mayfield: Thank you so much. And if Steve's out there, I'll still beat your ass up a hill.
Anchor Point Podcast Host: Ooh, challenge. There we go. All right, guys.
Thanks for tuning in on another episode of The Anger Point Podcast. We'll see what happens when this, uh, legislation comes out. Thank you guys. Appreciate it.
Yvette Piacsek: All right, thank you. Till next time,
Anchor Point Podcast Host: see ya.
And boom. There we go, ladies and gentlemen. Another episode of the Anchor Point Podcast is in the books with my good friends from the Grassroots Wildlife Firefighters and the National Federation of Federal Employees. So big news on the horizon. I'm definitely pumped to see what the, uh, actual language says when the, uh law comes out or when it's written down on paper.
But that is, uh, that's something that's gonna, that I guess it's up to time to tell time or it to [01:45:00] tell, you know, you get the idea what I'm saying. Anyways, time will tell what the finite details are of those particulars, but either way, I am super pumped about that and it's been a long time coming between these two organizations.
I do want to say, Over the past three to four years, more stuff has happened on Capitol Hill than in the last 40 to 50 years of just being a quiet professional. So these, uh, these movements do work and I will 100% say that this isn't, The old school anymore. This isn't one of those things where, uh, the shut up and dig mentality is gonna get this across the finish line.
So I encourage everybody out there listening to be vocal. And if you can join the, uh, NFI organization, the NFI Union, or if you can do a, uh, solid and go and support or join if you will. I mean, you don't really have to join. We don't, they don't paywall anything like that. It's just information for free if you want it.
But if you want to help support [01:46:00] the, uh, grassroots cause, go over to www.grassrootswildlandfirefighters.com and check it out. And same thing with nfi. Get in front of your rep and see what you can do about standing up and making your voices heard, because that's the only way this is gonna change. So these organizations, you can also join both.
That's the awesome part. This is all you, a reflection of the boots on the ground. So thank you everybody for changing and changing for good. Other than that, hope everybody's doing well. And, uh, yeah, you'll be hearing a lot more from me here. Uh, I got some, uh, Interesting stuff coming, uh, along the pipeline as far as expansions to the website and new tools that we can utilize for you folks out there.
So hopefully it, uh, works pretty well and, uh, yeah, get a chance and, uh, you fill out that survey, I take constructive feedback quite well, so you wanna hear something different. Hit me up. Anyways, just a special shout out to our sponsors. We got Mystery Ranch purveyors of the finest damn packs in the fired game.
We've got Haha Brewery kick Ass Coffee for Kick Ass cause you can go to [01:47:00] www.hahabrewery.com and check out their full assortment of everything they have to offer. Apologies folks, that's my son whining in the background. He probably just, I don't know, drop something or throwing a fit. He's two. Anyways, we also have the ass movement, the anti surface shading movement.
Boozes a hell of a human and he's a great dude with a great organization and a hilarious message that's real. So go to www do. Fire wild.com and check out the ass movement. And last but not least, we have Bethany over at the a w e, the American Wildfire Experience. Go over to www.wildfireexperience.org.
Correction, go over to www.wildfireexperience.org and check out all they have to offer. And if you, uh, are looking for those grants, well, there's your chance. Go check 'em out, and you'll see when they are coming out and when they'll be issued in all the details. So with that, welcome back and thank you.
Y'all know the drill. Stay safe, stay savage. Peace.[01:48:00]