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Dan Berger: [00:00:00] So that's, there is the space for that to hear, but you're right. At the end of the day, the work begins at the leadership level and making sure the executive team has a sense of belonging. Then the question becomes is how do you create that? And the answer is it's a five step process. The first step is.
Podcast Host: The world is changing For most humans, change is uncomfortable and challenging to address financial and political uncertainty. Friction with back to office mandates and challenging hybrid workplace collaboration. Not to forget. Important environmental social responsibility and governance initiatives.
Combined with the rapid pace of digital transformation and the need for human-centered AI integration, change is happening and fast. This rapid change has highlighted the need for increased speed to innovation and long lasting change adoption in many [00:01:00] organizations. Whether you are a startup working on Agile process or a mature organization, navigating change within existing complex structures, the skillset and need to adapt has never been more vital.
The team from Strategy Table want to help the wider world understand the need and approach to meaningful and impactful change management. Helping organizations navigate disruption and make change accessible, it often starts with a meaningful conversation. This is accessible disruption.
Anthony Vade: Welcome to another episode of Accessible Disruption where we ask challenging questions like, what does disruption do to a team's sense of belonging and their sense of meaning in their life and their work? Today we're talking with Don Berger, who will bring some inspiring insights to that effect. But before we do quick reminder, like fully subscribe and join the conversation on [00:02:00] this and other topics on your favorite podcasting platform.
If you want additional informational resources, head over to strategy table.co. Sign up for a seat at the table and access ad free listening. Extended podcasts and our much loved experiments. I usually asked to hear to kick these things off, but I wanna quickly share my experience with Don. I first became aware of him through his work at Social Tables, a company that he built and was acquired by Steven in 2018, but he's built on that success.
And is reshaping the hospitality industry as the founder and CEO of Assemble hospitality group. But my experience was not what you might expect from someone of his level of success. I was sitting at a table at an event in the Moscone Center in San Francisco. There was one seat left at the table and Don came.
Waltz ing over said, may I join you? Jumped at the table and I went, wow. Hey, this is a hot shot, CEO, and this is exciting to have this conversation. And the energy at the table immediately went through the roof. He started sparking conversations, [00:03:00] but did it with humility, humor, and a healthy amount of challenging.
The way that we think and the conversations that we were having at that table. But I, I think what I really took away is everybody at that table felt really safe sitting at that table and having some challenging conversations that we all felt like it was his table. We belonged there. Very strange sensation to have, and it's rare.
To have a late comer come to your table at a luncheon and you remember them for an extended period of time afterwards, but I still remember that moment pretty fondly in the conversation that we had at that table. But Tahira, as I always do, who's done to you?
Tahira Endean: Who is dawn to me? So I can't remember when we met or how we met, but I have some very good dawn memories.
So yeah, there was, I think you and maybe one other person with social tables when I first met you, and then you got all the way up to five people. And I do remember having it, like a yelling at each other conversation at a too loud event about who meeting planners were [00:04:00] and what they needed. And after, probably before that.
And after that we were friends, but one of my favorite days was the day that we were speaking in Orlando and we both spoke in the morning and then we thought, this seems pretty interesting, but we could go to Epcot center instead. And that's what we did. So I think that one of the things I have always appreciated about Dawn is that while you are very strongly business-minded, you also know how to have a lot of fun.
And we have just shared many amazing conversations over the years, and I loved seeing your growth of social tables. And I remember going there one day down that big pink hallway. But when I went in, what I remember is that there was some people who were sitting at a table just inside the door, and they obviously had a newcomer that day, but they had welcomed them into lunch and were just sharing how much they loved working there.
And if we talk about building a culture from the ground up, it's something that I got to witness. You do. And of course, I'm sure there was bumps and wiggles along the [00:05:00] way, but that's also part of leadership and it's a joy to see you. Um, in the space that you're in now with your new family and living in a different place and growing a new kind of business, and so we'd love to talk about that.
Dan Berger: I think for me right now, my first of all, thank you so kind. I don't remember any of that. I'm just kidding. I do think my time at social tables was a bit of a black hole, and frankly that was before I was diagnosed with a lot of mental illness and things I've started to address in the last year. Not to say that it excused any sort of behavior, but I think it informed a lot of behavior, part of my success, part of my impulsivity and so forth.
But those kinds of things certainly make you. At times a better leader and at times a worse leader. But right now I'm really focused on physical stuff. I don't really, you know, for me, I'm too much of a Wist to tackle another software [00:06:00] company. Okay. You always say Lightning doesn't strike twice in the same place.
So I've decided to flip the script and go to what I call hardware. So moving from software to hardware, I have multiple businesses. Now, and I'm not gonna bore our listeners here with what they are other than just give the headlines. The first one is this, a bit of a silly product where I sell pillows. I sell pillows to help couples create more emotional intimacy.
That company's called Pillow Log. Pillow log like dialogue with pillows. And the reason I have that is in order to strengthen the sense of belonging in the household, you have to be vulnerable. You have to share feelings, you have to share all of your needs, and it's a bit of a framework to do that. We haven't sold a single pillow yet.
That's going really terribly. The other company I have, which I started about five years ago as a cleaning company. That's gonna be doing about 1,000,003 in revenue this year with about 15 plus or minus percent profit margin. That's doing relatively [00:07:00] well considering the industry and how competitive it is, how it's a race to the bottom in pricing, but it's focused, again, focus on the physical world.
Creating hospitality starts with safety, hospitality starts. Warmth and those things are only possible in a clean environment. The other business that I'm starting in January is a home automation business, a vertically integrated AV from wiring all the way to hanging up TVs. And the reason for that is because I believe that a sense of belonging is created in the home, and every family wants to own that place for memories.
So if you want to own the place for memories, then your home needs to be the go-to place, and the go-to place is gonna be the one with the home theater and all that stuff. And then finally, and what we're here to possibly talk about the most is my new company Assemble Hospitality Group, which is building 20 retreat facilities over the next 10 years throughout the United States and secondary and tertiary markets.
These emerging markets where I believe the future of meetings, small gatherings is going to take place. [00:08:00] And the first one is opening in Boise, Idaho, and Boise. Idaho has got this allure and it's. What I refer to as the recreation capital of America, much like Santa Fe for example, is the wellness capital of America, and Santa Barbara is the relaxation capital of America.
So that's how I'm branding the different cities we're starting. You're we're building, but the first one is opening November 1st in here in Idaho.
Tahira Endean: That exciting. So I think it is. Well, you just can't sit still, can you?
Dan Berger: There are a lot of evenings where I'm like, what should I do myself? After my daughter's put down, I'm just like, yeah, like.
I, I'm not working as hard as I used to, even though I got all this stuff going on. I have an operator, I have business partner. Yeah, it's not as hard as I thought it would be, but certainly keeping me busy. But the focus of assemble, especially now where it's, it's really hard to pre-book venues. So we have five bookings.
Without even having much other than like some 3D models. And yeah, it's gonna be a really special place. Only 11 rooms exclusive use. [00:09:00] You gotta do a full buyout and purpose built for gatherings from the wellness center outside with hydrotherapy, all the way to the digital frames inside the living room that will show you pictures of your team that you sent to us.
A very thoughtful experience from a design perspective. From the door to the parking lot.
Tahira Endean: Clearly you, I, you've been thinking about this for a long time. I know that. How do you see it being something that is disruptive? Or do you just see it as being the next evolution of what needs to happen?
Dan Berger: Look, I like to say that every business needs to be blue ocean business, right?
You're gonna either go in the, either go in the red ocean where sharks are biting each other's asses off, where you're gonna go into the blue ocean, where there's deep opportunity and a lot of opportunities, vertical and horizontal. So I think every business needs to be. Positioned as a blue ocean business.
So I like to think about every business as a two by two and what's at the top right and what's in the bottom left. And. Know, top right and bottom right thing. I got that, no pun [00:10:00] intended. So you got that top right opportunity, which differentiates from Airbnb because even though it's exclusive use, it's purpose built and it differentiates from a hotel that even though it's purpose built, it's exclusive use.
So you're not gonna have Bob from it hitting on your COO at the bar, but also you're gonna have your own room with your own en suite so you're not sharing a bed with Bob Bunk bed under a live laugh, love sign.
Anthony Vade: Your book, uh, the Quest, the Definitive Guide to Finding Belonging has that word in the title, right?
The belongings come up multiple times already, and it's the central theme of all of your recent in endeavors. What are some other ways that you've translated that belonging into the way that you design and craft these spaces with, with assemble, and how does that sort of inform. Coming from the tech disruptive world, it was a bit of a cheeky comment before about changing that and changing your mindset, and did any of that inform these design choices that you are making?
Dan Berger: I think you have to always think about the context that's taking place [00:11:00] in the world as well as the term belonging. I think it's been chopped up, butchered, and delivered piecemeal by a lot of different people. The term belonging is basically. The sense of fit between the individual and the environment they're in.
That environment can be virtual. That environment can be a one-sided relationship with an influencer, and certainly that environment can be an event. That environment can be a family or even a barista. That's first and foremost. We gotta define belonging. Second of all, the way I've approached belonging differently than I did at social tables is I've established belonging for myself in the personal sphere, personal world.
The first thing you did is showed me your dog on this call. Pets are form of belonging because they give us self-esteem, which is one of the six fuels to belong. Events are part of a group membership fuel, which is referred to as a collective effervescence. When we all come together and we share that same energy.
So that's a different fuel to belong. Your immediate family is another fuel [00:12:00] to belong and so on and so forth. But what I realized at social tables is that I did not have that foundational sense of belonging. I didn't have a family. For men, especially once you have kids, they say, is when you really feel a sense of belonging.
And when the Maslow hierarchy of Needs was recreated by university professors in the 2010s, they said that actually child rearing. Was at the top of that pyramid, did not self-actualization as Maslow suggested in the mid 20th century. So the point I'm making is that belonging foundationally should happen to the home.
It actually happen to your personal life, and then it moves on to other things and other spheres and its social tables. I did not have that because as soon as I sold the company, my sense of belonging was gone because I was getting my self-esteem there. I was getting my. One sided relationships there by going to conferences and speaking and whatnot.
I was going to events, so I was meeting that need and I had friends at social tables, so that was meeting that need. So [00:13:00] all those needs were at social tables and not in my personal life. So the first step in finding belonging is to have it in your personal life, and only then can you start creating environments that give it to other people.
Anthony Vade: They say, find what you love and you'll never work a day in your life. And put everything into it. And it's kind, it goes against what many of us were told for 20, 30 years of our schooling and career, and we, how many people have, especially leaders, gone through that type of experience where they've climbed the ranks to only find that when they get there.
The deficit was in the family that they left behind and those and that belonging. That's right. Because they just gave everything to the company or to the business.
Dan Berger: That's right. And I would say that earlier, I touched on context and the reason context is very important is because I'm not even sure people want a sense of belonging at work today.
I think there's been this shift where it's like people are like, I'm back to transactional. I'm back to like, gimme my paycheck and I'm outta here. And that's okay. And I think leaders can make that decision and say, you know what? I'm not trying to create a culture of belonging. I'm trying to just get stuff [00:14:00] done and I don't need to do that.
That's okay. That's a leadership decision and that's contextual, if pardon of the meu of the, where the company sits and the environment it's in. I think I was focused on a culture of belonging. It's what I needed. It's us. I needed, it's what my gen, my, my millennials needed at the time. Average age was 27, but now they're just like, I wanna like go dance on TikTok, or I want to bucket list my, the things on my list, or whatever.
Yeah. I don't think it's as much as necessary as it used to be.
Tahira Endean: Do you think it, there's a difference where you're creating a place where people can come and gather together? I think there's clearly a difference. So many people now working outside of an office space and I'm, I know that you're gonna have thoughts on that as people say, oh, it's a great opportunity for meetings and events because when people are working remotely, this is a great time to bring them together.
But I don't. I think it's as easy as that. Just like you can't just put people in a room who work disparately and hope for the best, or to say, oh, we always plan fun things like a dine around and that's gonna make everybody [00:15:00] connect. So what are some of the things you're thinking about as you're, you know, that there's a high remote work world out there and building a place to bring people together?
Dan Berger: I'll give you an example. At Uber, they used to have these sabbaticals for teams that they would just send them anywhere they would choose and they would go just. Work. So there's like these design sprints happening at Uber for a week in Puerto Rico. So that's, there is the space for that to hear, but you're right.
At the end of the day, the work begins at the leadership level and making sure the executive team has a sense of belonging. Then the question becomes is how do you create that? And the answer is it's a five step process. The first step is hospitality, making people feel warm, making people feel accepted, making people feel seen, allowing them to kick their shoes off.
Throw their feet up and feel comfortable. That creates a sense of safety. Once you have safety, people can show up as themselves. Once you have safety, you have engagement, and people start engaged and they start having accountability to each other, contributing without fear of reprisal. [00:16:00] And once you have.
Engagement. You have commitment because people are bought in to what they're contributing to. And then finally you have belonging, and that's the path to creating a culture of belonging. So surely you can have a meeting about creating a culture of belonging, or you can have a culture of belonging and then have a meeting in order to achieve whatever you're trying to achieve.
I would say any team can come together and it depends on the goal they're trying to achieve. All that being said, I think a really big. Market for us are family reunions. You know, they want that private space. Another big one for us is, uh, wellness retreats, ceremonies, things of that nature. Another one of our, for our target audiences forums, YPO, EO and other forms that take place, that have retreats on an annual basis and finally corporate offsite.
I would say those are probably the, ironically, even though when I went into this thinking that was gonna be my biggest ICP, my ideal customer persona, but it actually ended up probably being. The [00:17:00] worst.
Tahira Endean: The worst.
Dan Berger: Not the worst, but like I haven't had that many leads in that one.
Tahira Endean: I think that's, do you think a lot of those things, because they're being done by executive assistants who are not even aware that this is a thing yet.
Dan Berger: VAs have their own networks. Some are pretty disconnected from the kind of world and others that might have access to it. I think the chief of staff, I call them, I call them retreat coordination partners, because they're either a part of the meeting like a chief of staff or a COO. Or even founder led teams.
And then a part of it is are the EAs and the other administrative professionals that are planning these kinds of things. The problem that exists, however, is that, yes, there's a word of mouth issue, but also there is this discovery issue, which is related to word of mouth. People just go to where they hear it's good, which is why you need more than one venue.
It's like. You can buy a subscription for us for four venues. That's what we're gonna have four in the next three years. So you can have that and it's, okay, fine. I'll take the subscription for four quarters. People want new, but the other problem is you can't [00:18:00] really catch people when they're planning these things.
I can't do cold calls. It's asking for software like I did at social tables. I need to rely on. Mostly digital paid in order to get the right people.
Anthony Vade: I think a lot of the people working in traditional venues, hotels have also seen a bit of a. Decline in the leadership retreat type models and if they have, it's been more incentive based than actual collaboration space stuff.
How much of you do you think, and maybe I'll lead you too much here, but how much is that due to just poor experiences in the past and not seeing value from a leadership retreat? 'cause it, it's a report out that could be a teams meeting as opposed to actual collaboration. And what does collaboration that's.
Meaningful and creates belonging and look like to you and your organization?
Dan Berger: Yeah. I think there's three components to a really good retreat. The first one is content. Organized content with a facilitator. A CEO or COO can't use both sides of the brain. They can't ask questions while they also participate.[00:19:00]
So facilitated part of the meeting is really important. The other one is team building that's contextual to the team. I don't think it'd be a good idea to take a team. I'm like a swimming trip. It's like people don't wanna do that, although we do have hydrotherapy amenities, but you have to be, that's for everybody.
So the second is just contextual team building activities, which is why we have over 30 experiences that we offer. We have an integrated abstracted layer, A DMC, a destination management company. We will book everything for people and just take a slight commission off that. From transportation all the way to tactical defense.
So there's that. But team building, that's contextual. And then the third component is free time and not packing things in. So you can call your spouse. So you can just go to the bar if you want, or you can go to an AA meeting. One of the things that we're proud of is we offer actually AA meeting directory and other A meetings to allow people to go visit [00:20:00] meetings if they are in recovery.
We need to give people the space. To do all that on their own or working. So I think those are the three kinds of things, and a lot of people just don't think about it that way. And for us, a big piece of it through conversations like this, you know what I realized and what I loved at social tables is the retreats that I have with my coworkers.
When we cooked a meal together, when we, I don't know where, when ax throwing or whatever, and we did that locally at Airbnbs. Throughout. In my early days, we had the meeting in my apartment and then we slept at an Airbnb. So that disconnection is important, but that's when I realized the biggest things happen in the smallest rooms.
I'm not gonna set goals for my, for the next three years at a town hall with 120 people. I might solicit feedback prior. I might have a small committee that helps me guide those, that vision, but that's gonna happen with my exec team. Or is gonna [00:21:00] happen with a smaller team if you're slightly larger, the marketing team or the sales team, or they're doing their leadership offsite.
But as it relates to your question, Anthony, I was talking to an exceptionally senior founder of a, one of the largest. Meeting brokers, third parties, and he just shitted on my idea. He said, well, you don't do small. This is stupid. The economics don't make sense. I mean, he shitted on my idea and I said, and I was just like, respectfully, I disagree.
Thank you for your feedback. I respect you, blah, blah, blah. He said, we book me small meetings all the time at X, Y, Z. And I was like, oh really? How big are those? 20 to 30? And I'm like, dude, room blocks are 10 plus, I'm doing less than room blocks. You know what I'm saying? So hotels, I got news for you guys at the retreat and planning retreats, hotels don't give a shit about you.
You know, all due respect, [00:22:00] they want to get Dreamforce to their city. They want full buyouts. They want that 40, 50, 60% foundation of group so they can drive transient and bt. Leisure, a DR. Love hotels have tremendous respect for hotels. Worked with hotelier for the last decade, and any hotelier listening, come work for me.
I'll give you commission and I'll make your life much easier. Hmm.
Anthony Vade: And I think to your point, it's identifying some of the other elements that
Dan Berger: the disincentive, there's systemic disincentive in this industry.
Anthony Vade: It's become transactional, right? And belonging rarely, completely. This in the transaction. So when you have someone who books rooms and they go, Hey, I can only think about this one.
Eight hour period of time. Then they're not invested in what happens when they go back to the office or what they were like before they came into the venue. It's just, you're in my doors. You sign the check, you get out.
Dan Berger: Exactly. [00:23:00] And here's an itemized list of how many Sharpies you used.
Anthony Vade: Yeah.
Dan Berger: No hidden fees that assemble 3,100 bucks a night.
Some revenue management here and there if we need to, you know, obviously peak and stuff. But very easy. 3,100 bucks a night, you get the whole thing. Snacks, beverages. No F and b. That's addition because we can stock your fridge or we can, you can order Uber Eats or whatever. Av. You can have the, you know what?
You can have the TV on all day. I'm not gonna charge you more. You wanna flip chart? I bring you a flip chart. You want a co, I'll bring you a cop. You know you want the pool service to happen right before No problem. You want, we got you cleaning. It's included. I pay $650 to clean my whole facility. That's part of my costs.
Tahira Endean: I think it's a great model and you're right, it is something where it's, yeah, there's all the reasons that you have. You know what, you can come, you can be, you can do all the things you need to do. You can do it within a, you know, both a contained environment where you can feel safe and then you can take people out to [00:24:00] do activities where they will be able to explore other parts of themselves
Dan Berger: and that gives you one throat to choke this one.
Are you gonna chase the transportation person? 'cause they were late. You gonna chase the the Uber Eats driver? 'cause he was late. No, you chase me.
Tahira Endean: I think anybody who's looking at minimums for this and minimums for that, and percentages for this, and percentages for that and gratuities and service charges and resort fees and all of those things, yeah, you take a, your budget changes exponentially once you start to build it.
I really like that.
Anthony Vade: We need to take a quick short break here to hear from some of our sponsors. Of course, if you want to hear this episode ad free without interruptions, head on over to strategy table.co. Sign up for your seat at the table to hear extended versions and get access to a whole bunch of amazing resources that can help you make change accessible to other people.
We'll be right back after this quick break.
Tahira Endean: You know, you've had a big journey. When we look at accessible [00:25:00] disruption, you sold social tables, you traveled across the country, you decided on Boise, you met an incredible woman. You have a baby, and you have recognized, as you said, that there had to be a significant shift in your own leadership style because of things as you discover things.
One of the things, when Anthony and Ryan and I first started this podcast. As we were talking to each other, I said, I want us to do a podcast with each other to so that why are we doing this? But also how did our backgrounds and our life and things tie into it? And we found out that Anthony and I both have mothers who are special needs teachers retired now, but we were raised in a way that was a norm in many ways.
Brian was a military kid, so he traveled around the world and always had to come in and be the new kid and make new friends and. It's, there's a DHD and dyslexia, and I was in 50 years ago in the gifted kids program, which definitely means that I'm on a spectrum [00:26:00] somewhere. I think that when we look at leadership styles, everybody brings all of those things along with them.
And when you look at, what would you consider your sort of significant disruption in your leadership style that pushed you forward?
Dan Berger: I actually took all my personality tests, Myers Briggs disc, and what? What? It's a new one. My culture index people love and I threw it into chat GT and I told it to write an owner's manual for me.
I did this back at social tables, but that was based off of my knowledge of self. But taking that information plus all the information chat GBT has about me, I was able to create an owner's manual. So allow me to read a few parts of it because I, it's the only way I think I can answer your question.
Please
Tahira Endean: do. We love this.
Dan Berger: All read is Snapshot. Snapshot. I'm a high velocity vision driven entrepreneur who moves fast, thinks strategically, and values clarity. I lead with conviction, work best with autonomy and bring energy to anything that builds, disrupts or scales. I'm most effectively and surrounded by people who [00:27:00] execute with excellence and communicate without fluff.
Anthony Vade: Amazing
Dan Berger: what energizes me. Bold. Strategic thinking sessions. White space to build something from scratch. Rapid experimentation and iteration. Working with confident, competent people. Autonomy with clear ownership. Seeing a momentum and measurable impact what drains me. Bureaucracy, red tape or slow decision making, repetitive tasks or rigid processes, passive aggressiveness or ambiguity being micromanaged or slowed down over explaining or excessive context.
Setting.
Anthony Vade: Perfect sound. It sounds familiar, doesn't it? Tira, I, I dunno why we became fast friends, but yeah,
Tahira Endean: you noticed some similarities. You know, one of the things that, that I, that anybody who's ever worked with me knows is you'll get an email. They'll be like, it's a brain fart. I'm like, sorry, let me just put more context around that because I get to tend to have more ideas than time, perhaps sometimes.
Dan Berger: Can't stand that. If you can't get your idea done and get out, get to the point, hurry.
Tahira Endean: I can get the idea out. It's just, I [00:28:00] don't know why you don't understand what I wanted, but that's okay. We'll just start at the beginning. And yeah,
Dan Berger: there's some people you have to just realize they're gonna just garbage out.
A lot of garbage out. But there's gonna be a lot of good stuff there too. And you gotta figure out the signal through the noise. You can be like, oh, that's a good idea. And then if you like, and it probably is, but then be like, if you don't hear about it in a week, it was probably just that kind of like breakage in the system and then, okay, great.
We're back to, but there are some people who are so visionary that it's like obnoxious because. It's like you don't have time to operate. Les McEwen has a wonderful kind of framework. He says there are four types of leaders, operators, processors, visionaries, and synergists. Those are the people who able to do all three.
My chief of staff was a synergist. Kristin Zeidler. My, I am a visionary operator, but the word visionary is so lame. Dude. I'm just like, everybody's a visionary. You know what I'm saying? Sure. There's some people who are like, whatever, but like visionary for me, I, I have a hard time respecting if that's all you are [00:29:00] because Okay.
When do you actually do stuff?
Anthony Vade: And vision I think, should be owned by a team. We should share a vision.
Dan Berger: Yeah, exactly.
Anthony Vade: Not be the one in
Dan Berger: I can, yeah. So many like asshole CEOs are like, we should do this.
Anthony Vade: Yeah.
Dan Berger: Okay. Well, what are you gonna do to get us there?
Anthony Vade: Yeah.
Dan Berger: You being the CEO, you being the leader. I think there's so many, especially tech entrepreneurs who like don't know tech, and it's like how can you be a tech guy, a tech, CEO, without knowing anything about tech?
And I always tell entrepreneurs, learn a bit of tech, and then they're like, oh, I'll take 80% of the business. Like what? You want. Oh, you're just looking for a CTO. No,
Anthony Vade: it is a lot of work to, I've done tons of personality preference tests and working style tests as well, and I love that you aggregated them all into a user manual that that's brilliant, but it takes a certain level of vulnerability and self-awareness and willingness to be, to see yourself in light of what a report might say of you that you may, it may [00:30:00] dispel a few myths that that you have of yourself.
Do you think most leaders are. Vulnerable enough or confident enough in their positions to be able to do that kind of thing,
Dan Berger: they should be again, but it depends on the context of the company. If it's a check in checkout kind of company, then no, I don't have to. But if you're really trying to create that culture of belonging, then yeah, I think that's a requirement.
But first you have to make a decision on whether you wanna do it or not,
Tahira Endean: and whether you wanna be an entrepreneur, and then if you wanna build that business so that it is full of growth and human connection and
Dan Berger: Sure.
Tahira Endean: Those wonderful things.
Dan Berger: Yeah, like I talk about addiction, I talk about my, my bipolar diagnosis.
I talk about recovery, I talk about. My Pulsivity, I talk about my nonverbal learning disorder. I talk about all that stuff that I've only gotten to really understand over the last year. When I tell people I have a nonverbal learning disorder, they're, and I tell them I need to speak out loud when I'm thinking because otherwise, like I don't, I can't imagine it.[00:31:00]
Like you told me. If you told me, Hey, think of the five steps you're gonna do this morning, I'd be like, I'll lose track of two or three 'cause I gotta speak it out or I gotta write it down. But that's why I never was successful like AP calculus, that's why I got 1190. My SATs like. It's why I was a bad student in a certain way, and only in college was I actually good because I got to choose what I was doing
Tahira Endean: and then found ways to speak it out loud.
Dan Berger: And that's been a huge learning for me. And I wish I had that earlier because actually I should add it to my fricking A honor's manual.
Podcast Host: Yeah.
Dan Berger: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I do
Tahira Endean: that right now. Yes.
Dan Berger: Yeah, I'm literally gonna do it right now. Let's go.
Tahira Endean: So one of the things in your, one of your more recent blog posts is, uh, that, that bold and countercultural claim that alcohol has no place at work, including at offsite.
We're definitely seeing, we know that there's a generational shift. We know that there's high 23 to 46%, depending on where you read it, of people who are not drinking alcohol at all. So if you have a no alcohol policy, [00:32:00] how is that a form of. Our favorite words accessible disruption. How does it change?
Dan Berger: It prevents dumb shit from happening, like alcohol.
Like I, I don't think anybody can name one good thing about alcohol. The one good thing about alcohol, people will say is it's a social lubricant, right? People will say all the time, really? I think it turns you into a social asshole.
Anthony Vade: Yep. I'd agree with that. Most people, yeah, people think that they're performing better, but they're not.
Dan Berger: Yeah. Performing
Anthony Vade: better.
Dan Berger: They'll start having darting eyes looking a little bit around. I think men have harder impulse control than women. Women too. Certainly. I think, think events are a dangerous place for. Things to happen. Harassment, worse. Gossip.
Anthony Vade: Yep.
Dan Berger: Slipups trade. Secret reveal revealed. God, I can't think of anything good that comes outta alcohol in an event.
Anthony Vade: And even if it's not the high risk stuff, which we know happens, careers have been ruined, businesses are being right. Because of slip ups, we know, but even on the most simple [00:33:00] level, the most basic, the damage it does to your brain and the inefficient way, you can then participate in the following things, whether it's because you are drunk or because you are hungover and in a dopamine.
Dan Berger: Right. That's a great point.
Anthony Vade: Your motivation's gone. You're ability, learns, gone, retain information.
Dan Berger: Absolutely. Social tables, people had a drinking limit. Yeah. You couldn't drink more than two drinks. And if you were hung over the next day, like you would never go to a show again.
Anthony Vade: Yeah. It's just so embedded in so much culture.
Absolute. You go to the annual sales
Dan Berger: conference, lazy meeting planners.
Anthony Vade: Yeah.
Dan Berger: Copy and paste last year's reception.
Anthony Vade: Yeah.
Tahira Endean: Can we also turn the music up at that?
Dan Berger: Yeah.
Anthony Vade: Yeah. That's it. Why? Why would we wanna have a conversation? We want thump and atmosphere, so we feel like we're in a nightclub. That's what a,
Dan Berger: yeah, it it's a good team meeting.
It's not, yeah.
Tahira Endean: So Will assembled
Dan Berger: No Bueno.
Tahira Endean: Hospitality venues. Be alcohol free or suggested alcohol.
Dan Berger: No, it's not my decision. Not my decision. People can do whatever they want.
Tahira Endean: Yeah.
Dan Berger: That's not my decision.
Tahira Endean: Decision.
Dan Berger: They wanna ask me what [00:34:00] they, what I think. I'll tell 'em. I think. I don't wanna get wasted in two Kastan Zoo Kastan, not my business.
Tahira Endean: There you go. That's very reasonable. But I do think that you are, everything that you've just said, it does just make more sense.
Dan Berger: Requires change. It requires a culture. Just culture shift for sure.
Tahira Endean: And it's even right now, we've got some stuff out with David T. Stevens is trying to find happy hours he can visit at.
Iex, which is a huge trade show on the trade show floor when they have happy hours that won't just have water as an alternate to wine. And there's a pew coming up, like we're starting to see some of the bigger chains and a few other people who are,
Dan Berger: yeah, well, when there's like a free champagne on the trade show floor, people are like, Ooh, no judge.
I guess that's some judgment. That's why I say it's a culture shift.
Tahira Endean: And like I said, we see these numbers that are quite high, certainly in younger generations, they just don't drink alcohol. So if we want to attract them and keep them in an industry like events and hospitality, then we still need to think about how they're gonna interact with us in ways that make sense for where they're at.
It's
Dan Berger: difficult.
Tahira Endean: They're
Dan Berger: at it's difficult civic, but I think [00:35:00] you don't need a reception. Everything, you know, like how you don't need that reception. That's what I'm saying, when it's like lazy planning, it's like there's so many other options. It's hard when like you have a million priorities, you're gonna, you need an evening program.
Okay. It's obvious. We'll rent out Dres and throw a huge party. Okay, cool. But what are you gonna do?
Anthony Vade: Yeah. And aside from a moment with allowed dj, what are the people
Dan Berger: taking
Anthony Vade: away from that?
Dan Berger: Yeah, I think event organizers shouldn't do it.
Anthony Vade: Yeah.
Dan Berger: I think venues should allow it and event organizers and producers can allow it.
If a certain association wants to have a party, they can allow it, but it's the policy of the event organizer to not facilitate that as a message and a signal.
Tahira Endean: Mm. Yeah, and I think that's a good example of, you know, there's lots of good, interesting alternatives coming up, which I think is really great.
And I think the more that we can create things where people have reasons to interact and socialize in a comfortable way, just the stronger we'll [00:36:00] become as well, both as people and as an industry because you build different relationships with people when you are doing an activity. Versus trying to yell at somebody over some loud music.
I may have written about that seven years ago, but it's clearly something that I've thought for a long time. You have your book, the Quest.
Podcast Host: Yes.
Tahira Endean: Um, your great framework for finding belonging. I think we've talked about this as well in the past, that belonging, there's not one way of belonging. There's not one person who can own belonging.
I have. 10 books that have belonging in the title, and that's a good thing because there's lots of different ways that we can review what it, what it can be. It's
Dan Berger: so funny because I think about Elizabeth Gilbert and like her story about live, laugh, love, I think that's what it's called, right? Anyway, she's this privileged position where it's go and fly to Italy and then to Thailand.
Oh,
Tahira Endean: eat, pray, love,
Dan Berger: eat, pray, love, and then India, and then find yourself and or Oli, and he's just look within and you'll find. Belonging or Brene Brown is [00:37:00] you, can you belong on your own? Thank you so much you guys. But where is the playbook? And here's the irony, right? Elizabeth Gilbert's now on a tour talking about her love and sex addiction, which I can relate to 'cause I'm in recovery for that.
And. The irony is that she was doing what she's now speaking about, so she actually did not find a sense of belonging because sex and love addiction are distractions from finding belonging. But that's why I did something that nobody's done before. 120 work cited, telling you what the sign says in order to find belonging with a process that will get you there.
And help you maintain it.
Tahira Endean: So what would be something that would be one specific thing that people could do that a team
Dan Berger: leader, one thing they can do, one thing they can do is they can go to belonging quest.com/quiz. Take the quiz, find out what their belonging archetype is. There are four. There are, there are.
[00:38:00] Eager Belongers, anxious belongers, reluctant belongers, and independent belongers. Depending on what your belonging style is, there are different strategies you can adopt, and then you can review your belonging tank, see where you get your current belonging, and then edit it to fit your persona. It's that simple.
Anthony Vade: I'm gonna do that. We're probably getting towards the end of this episode. I want to hit you with a, perhaps a quick one, perhaps a long one. We'll see which direction it goes. Term that gets brought up quite a bit in the business world and in team and leadership management is three words, technically, KPI, key performance indicators, and there's a lot of.
People going around saying that belonging can't be a KPI and addressing wellness is just it's, it can't be a measurable thing for business. How do you feel about that and how might we make sense of belonging within teams and looking out for each other and worrying about each other's personal lives with balance a priority in a business circle?
And is it possible [00:39:00] to be a KPI?
Dan Berger: Absolutely. Very simple. Revenue, employee retention. Employee retention means people are sticking around 'cause they feel belonging. Revenue means people give a shit so they're working. Driving revenue. Word of mouth, customers and word of mouth. Employees are indicative that people feel a certain way, so they want to, belonging is not just for your team.
Our customers felt a sense of belonging. Are you kidding? Like it, it was it. It trickles down. Chip Conley has that great book Peak and he applies the Maslow hierarchy of needs to different to how to do it with investors, how to do it with employees, and how to do it with stakeholders. And that's what it is.
It's like they're for us. Our partners are customers, we're part of our culture. They got swag, they got free training, they got dinners. When we went to different cities, they got access to our education. To this day, like there's thousands of subscribers to the YouTube channel and Steven is begging people to stop calling it social tables,
Anthony Vade: but it's part of them, right?
They're part of it, [00:40:00] yeah. Yeah. Yeah, interesting.
Dan Berger: So yeah, KPIs are very simple. It's all the KPIs that we would want for a great business, and I think the way to get that, again, the right context, the right leader, the right kind of goal, as long as that's the place, then then focus on belonging and the rest will come.
Anthony Vade: You also need a certain level of vulnerability. To say that the reason that my staff retention isn't what it could be is because there's a deficit in the organization.
Dan Berger: Well, social table's, employee retention was really bad. We have a tr, like a 33% attrition on an annual basis. But that wasn't because people didn't feel a sense of belonging.
It either felt like I wasn't an either because they felt like I was an asshole, or because they had opportunities somewhere else and they had a lot of opportunities somewhere else. People went to Facebook, people went to Spotify, people went to other great companies. And who wants to live in DC for more than 10 years, quite frankly.
But they moved and that's all good. And that's, but there's people still there at Steven right now doing their thing and they still talk about it. And to [00:41:00] me, the number one belonging, KPI, there's two of them. The first one is marriages and the second one is friendships. And there is three or four marriages as a result of social tables, employees.
And there's friendships to this day. Brilliant. And to me, that brings a smile on my face. And people made money when, 'cause I have an employee owned become business. So people made money when we sold. Of course I made the most 'cause I started it. But that's not like a low, that's not like a flex. It's just the reality to put it out there.
But people made money.
Anthony Vade: So we generally wrap these podcasts up with a simple call to action. Now that we've had this conversation, now we've explored belonging, the way we can rethink, gathering and collaborating, and if we had to come up with a simple call to action that people could walk away from this podcast and enact within their business, their personal life, what might that be?
I'm gonna get to here. I'm gonna let you go first. What would your call to action, given what we just talked about, be.
Tahira Endean: My call to actually would be go and take that belonging quiz because I think [00:42:00] there's many tools out there that we can do. As you said, you've done most of them, but at the end of the day, it is about understanding if you are going to be working and you're going to be leading people how you are.
And what matters to you and think considering how you will then use that knowledge to relate to the people that are gonna be coming into your orbit.
Dan Berger: And on that, by the way, belonging diversity is nice, but it's not the best because if you have a bunch of like eager belongers and reluctant belongers,
Tahira Endean: yeah,
Dan Berger: that's a little weird.
So it really depends on the profile of the leader. You know, you might probably want like eager Belongers in your sales team, but. It does matter what the leader is. 'cause usually the values of a leader are the values of the organization. Absolutely.
Anthony Vade: And of course there's a link to take your test in the description.
If you wanna jump over there now, I'm certainly gonna do it as well and I know we'll be chatting about it. Dondhi, do you have any other closing thoughts or anything wrap up? Any other call to action you'd like to put?
Dan Berger: No, just check me out on all the socials at [00:43:00] Dan Berger, even though it's spelled Dan, pronounced Don at Dan Berger.
And yeah, anybody wants to chat. I'm a open book, literally and figuratively,
Anthony Vade: and all the links are below. I'll make my final standard call to action head on over to strategy table.co. Check out those additional resources as well. We'll share the links there too to keep this conversation going. 'cause it's a vital conversation.
Things need to change in the world, and part of that is bringing people together. To collaborate in meaningful ways and build communities that truly feel a strong sense of belonging with each other. And with that, thank you for joining us on this episode, and we'll talk at you. The next accessible disruption.
Podcast Host: Accessible disruption is written and spoken by Tahir and Dean. Ryan Hill and Anthony Vade. All content is developed in collaboration with the team at Strategy Table Podcast. Production by Experience Design Change, Inc. An association with the change lead network. [00:44:00] Find more information@strategytable.co.