Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Welcome to The Admin Avenues Podcast!
In each episode, I’ll be chatting with inspiring Australian admin professionals, expert advisors, and a few surprise guests you won’t want to miss.
No matter where your admin career has taken you, this is your space to learn, grow, and connect with the people shaping the future of our profession.
Expect real stories, practical insights, and expert advice to help you thrive, whether you're just starting out or leading at the top.
We’re also here to celebrate the Australian admin community, because admins are at the heart of every successful business.
Let’s shape the future of admin in Australia, one conversation at a time.
🎧 Subscribe now and don’t miss a moment. New episodes coming soon!
Visit adminavenues.com and follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram @adminavenues
Candice: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome back to the Admin Avenues podcast. I'm your host, Candice Burningham, and today we have special guest, [00:01:00] Claire Jackson from The Habit Lab, who will be closing out our Adelaide conference with her keynote about how small changes lead to lasting results.
And Claire has very kindly fitted us in before going on holiday. Gosh, I wish I was going on holiday, Claire. can I come with you?
Claire: Yeah, there's definitely not room in my suitcase. Tiny habits, a big
Candice: Yes. Yes. Good to hear. Good to hear. You gotta have it all. But thank you for joining us. Welcome to the show. we're so excited to have you on because you're gonna obviously be our closing keynote, speaker for our Adelaide conference, as I said. And I think every admin listening has probably had moments where they've thought I don't know what I should be doing.
I just can't seem to make it stick." And your session is speaking to that, those kind of challenges. So before we dive into the tiny habits that you'll be talking about, I'd love to hear, like, about your story because you started as one of us, didn't you?
Claire: I absolutely did, which is why it's such a privilege, you found me on little old LinkedIn. You almost feel like you're talking into a void, space [00:02:00] sometimes. But you found me, came across the Habit Lab, Tiny Habits, thought this could be a great fit for the conference, and I could not be more delighted.
Because yes, that is exactly where I started. After my degree, I, joined a temp agency, and they placed me as a personal assistant in a university, and it's from there, very accidental. I'd, like, done a lot of admin during my degree back in Scotland, if you've guessed correctly where the accent comes from.
And yeah, landed working for this director. really cool guy. was kind of happy with me just figuring it out as I went because, wow, it is not an easy job. It's probably still to this day one of the most demanding, challenging jobs that I've had with all the plates spinning, and at the time, undiagnosed, autism and ADHD.
So, you know, had extra challenges there, but, it was definitely, it was the gateway to a career in the university sector for 20 years, until I went out on my own in this beautiful company [00:03:00] that helps people build better
habits.
Candice: cool is that? So you've also had your own experience with burnout and ultimately led you to discover these behavior designs. So c- are you able to share a bit about that journey and how that shapes the work that you do today?
Claire: I would love to, because I think, having the lived experience is definitely important, and it is part of the grassroots of where the company came from, which it often is when people start businesses, right? They've got lived experience. They saw something that wasn't working, and they wanted to help try and fix it.
And so yeah, The Habit Lab really did start with a very serious bout of burnout. So for context, I think it's important. my particular flavor of human is type A, noodle spicy, firstdorn- born daughter, chronic overachiever, and definitely a recovering people pleaser, which is quite the cocktail, and I think is probably quite recognizable, in the audience listening, potentially.
So I basically learned pretty [00:04:00] young that being capable equaled being valuable. And so it was, like, really important to be good, be helpful, anticipate what people need, work hard, keep going. And how that was modeled actually is because my mum, um, i- for her whole career was also a personal assistant, to the chairman of a really large food corporation, Baxter's Soup, if you, uh, you can get it here.
not so little Scottish company. And so she really was extraordinarily, I can't say that word. You know what I'm trying to say, Capable, and really just gave so much to her job. That gave so much to everyone else, and it was definitely at a cost. So looking back, it's no coincidence that I ended up being the way I was being.
and I became exceptionally good with just keeping on, keeping on, right? which is a wonderful skill to have because it brings us opportunities, and we have amazing, incredible impact, until you start overriding your own needs. And so if we backtrack five years ago, I became a mum during the [00:05:00] pandemic, I was trying to learn how to be a mum whilst still doing 50 to 60-hour weeks with a newborn who was six months old, still traveling, around, but the borders were closed. No family, you can imagine. And I just kept going until eventually my body decided, "Nope, I've had enough." And so I ended up in the A&E actually, presenting with this horrific rash. And ultimately, what the level of operating from depletion had done for so long, so many decades, like on repeat.
I'd have breaks, I'd go on holiday, reset, say no more, but nothing would really ever change. And the birth of my son, which did not go to plan, by any stretch. Those two things combined landed me with a chronic disease, and lupus is, is what I have now. And so, that was the wake-up call, that I needed.
it wasn't actually the wake-up call, uh, in the end because habits are hard to break, we're gonna talk about that, ~um,~ at the conference a bit more. And I'll share a bit more of my story and [00:06:00] really what, burnout can actually look like and, uh, the seriousness 'cause I think it's become one of those whimsical words that we kinda throw around.
We don't really pay attention to, and we think it's not going to be our future. it might not be tomorrow, it might not be in two weeks, but it could come knocking at your door if you are operating from a place of depletion for too long. so the very habits I developed to cope with that time, you know, I ha- was an insomniac.
I wasn't moving my body. I wasn't nourishing myself. I was relying on caffeine a lot. I mean, I still do to an extent. but I wasn't living what, quote-unquote, "a healthy lifestyle" was, but I didn't even know where to start. And that is when I had to ask the question, when can people know what to do?
how do we transition from knowing what to do to actually doing what we need? On repeat. How do we recover? And I discovered this incredible, methodology that gave me like a really practical step-by-step. If you [00:07:00] love a process, this is for you. I'm a systems person. Think I was an engineer in a previous life.
and so this tiny habits method, which is the foundation of what I now share and teach in The Habit Lab, really helped me understand myself so much better, why I wasn't able to stop doing the things that weren't good for me, and that were fueling my disease, and start doing the things that were gonna mean that I could be around to see my son hit adulthood.
so yeah, it's been five years, and if you go onto any of my social medias, you would see it looks like a massive transformation physically, mentally. it's a picture speaks a thousand words, right? But it has been incremental, tiny step after tiny step over the last five years, where I've just had to keep choosing myself.
And now, you know, it's a privilege to help other people choose themselves and find ways in their own context for their brain, for their body, so that they can live the life that they deserve as well.[00:08:00]
Candice: Oh, some great points in there, especially at the end there about different ways, different coping, different... We're all different. I was talking to my brother this morning that I'm probably ADHD undiagnosed because everyone else in my family has it, but I looked so good compared to him because his was next level hyper.
so me being able to do things, me being able to pack my bag, me being able to have two socks on was such a leap and bound compared to what he could do that I just had to adapt during life. But now as the perimenopause is kicking in, as other things are changing, the ADHD symptoms, they're probably not the hyper, maybe the ADD is there and I'm like, "Ooh, this is all
clocking now."
Claire: and it needs strategies, it needs support that work for you. This is where social media is great, and it can be inspiring, and it gives you, like, some really great ideas. But the reality is you need to design for your life, how your brain works and what you know is gonna set you up [00:09:00] rather than try and, like, force yourself into someone else's five-step
Candice: Yeah. That's a, an, expert
Claire: Peri, what on earth? Like, honestly, for anyone that is going through it, like, why did we not get a warning about this? Why does no one speak to you? all of these challenges are just heightened, and I'm definitely having to scaffold a lot more around my life. Like, I keep losing things constantly.
Like, I'm about to jump on a flight to Bali, and I've got no idea where my driver's license is, which is fine 'cause I have my passport. But, you know, where is it? I've checked every bag, every pocket, and yeah, I've put it somewhere. No
idea.
Candice: safe, just so you know. It's somewhere safe.
Claire: It will. I hope so. I hope so
Candice: So we all know, like, the things we should be doing, whether it's, like, embracing AI, exercising more, setting boundaries, or becoming more strategic. But why is following through often the hardest part?
Claire: We are in an era of information overload, aren't we? You were- everything we're being [00:10:00] bombarded with: eat better, exercise more, set boundaries, get your sleep hygiene, be more strategic, and now use AI. And nobody's standing in a kitchen at 9:00 at night thinking, "Oh, vegetables, that's what I've been missing."
Like how do you go and actually take action on said missing vegetables? So it's not that we don't know what we need to do. Sometimes it's that we give ourselves too much to do at one point. But when we say, "I need to use AI," your brain doesn't understand what that is. So it can't perform, use more AI, and it can't perform, be more strategic.
What it can perform is things like, "I'm going to spend 30 minutes, going through my inbox and using AI to summarize what my top priorities are." Or, " I'm gonna use AI to help plan the week." That's a specific instruction [00:11:00] that it can actually perform. so I think turning like a vague goal is one of the first steps that we do into something more specific so that we can act on it.
And if we design it right, and this is where the method comes in, that's where you start seeing the relief on people's faces. Like you're actually giving them a way forward rather than just going like, " Oh, you know, get better work-life balance." Like what does that mean? Rest more. Like it's not, it's not specific, and the part of the brain that was intended initially to keep us safe, the amygdala, it fires up and it sees it as a threat actually because it's unknown territory.
It's asking you to do something that feels wildly unsafe. And so you've got all of these extra barriers to take an action that you're not even aware of happening within the subconscious part of your brain. And so what we need to do is tame the action, turn it from a vague kind of basically pressure that we don't have capacity for, and be like, "All right, what's the [00:12:00] instruction I'm gonna give it?"
So that it can actually take the like, "Oh, I should do this," or, "I need to do that," or, "I have to," to like, "No, I actually can, and I want to, and I will."
So this is, this is the beauty of behavior change in practice. It's turning like information and what we know when we should all over ourselves and turn that into a get to.
Like how to harness that language, like I get to, and you take the fear out of it by giving yourself like, what does that actually bloody mean? I need to learn AI. Like find your starting point and, you know, this is where tiny habits really comes into its, its own and is, is so
Candice: Yeah. And as you say, like, people learn in different ways. Like, I'm not audial. If you tell me something, I'll forget it in five seconds. write it down for me or show me, and I've got it, got it in one.
Claire: I say it on repeat constantly is don't expect your brain to remember what you're asking of it either. So yes, design it, and I have to remind myself of this constantly because I can hardly read my own writing, which is a problem. But [00:13:00] use the notes app on your phone, if that is the case, to write it down, and that way you take that pressure off in a already overwhelmed, brain
Candice: Yeah, absolutely. even names, like I've always been terrible with names. I'm great with faces. I remember people all the time, and I'll be able through conversation, I'll figure out how I know you, but I won't remember your name. it's the worst.
Claire: It really is, especially in your industry and, like, what job that you do, but you meet so many people. And I mean, what is a name? Is it really the most important thing about us? Not really
Candice: no. As long as it, you're remembering, you're remembering the story. You, I know, I know you, I met you, we talked about this, but I don't know your name. It's the worst. But I'm blaming perimenopause, but that happened way before that.
Claire: I play the word association game, so I'm like Candice, candy, like blonde hair. I'll try and do like what's-- what are the
Candice: Yep. That's a good one. That's good. a friend of mine does the say their name three times in your head, and [00:14:00] that sticks for her, does not for me.
Claire: See, that's a tiny habit right
Candice: yeah, if it works for you, it works for you. so your keynote c- centers around internationally recognized tiny habits method. So for anyone hearing about this for the first time, what is this?
Claire: So Tiny Habits method was developed by an academic at Stanford University in the States, and it's based on the methodology that any habit change tool or framework uses called the habit loop. so it doesn't matter if you're a fan of Atomic Habits or Tiny Habits or The Habit Revolution from, homegrown Australian researcher, I think Dr.
Gina Cleo is her name. But whatever you're using as the method, it's all based on the habit loop, and the habit loop's premise is essentially for a habit to build, we need three things to happen, in order in the same moment. So we're given a cue that tells you to do the behavior. that can be an internal cue, like I'm [00:15:00] hungry, I need to go to the toilet, or it can be external.
And you see something, you think you remember, you go and, you see the biscuit packet, you wanna go and eat a biscuit,
or you see your water bottle. One of the reasons that I have a clear water bottle is that I learned, quite recently that has to be clear for a neurospicy brain to see it.
We're less likely to drink the water if it's in a steel, container, and it's been an absolute game changer. So we're prompted. it could be the time. and so on and so forth. Like, there's lots of tiny little prompts that we're not even aware of half the time. It's why marketing works very well, and my son always wants to steer into, uh, those big golden arches any time that we pass them.
He is cued that he would like a McDonald's.
Candice: So am I.
Claire: I'm not gonna lie. That is it. I'm like, "Okay, for you, no worries." on occasion , and everything in moderation, right? So the cue happens, we then do the behavior, and then whether we deem the behavior as [00:16:00] positive or negative, whether it is something that moves you towards the goal that you have or away from it, you will be rewarded with some sort of chemical.
So whether that's an endorphin, dopamine, we know that the body then gives you a response, and it might not last very long if it's something that you are trying to stop doing. But regardless, that is how behavior is formed. When that happens over and over again, the behavior becomes habitual.
And sometimes if you get in the car and you drive, say you've got an office, you drive to work, and you don't really remember how you got there. We've all had those journeys 'cause it's so automatic. That is essentially habitual, behavior. So the Tiny Habit method has taken that habit loop, and it has really looked at the challenges that people were having still, even though we know how behavior works.
Like, why can't people stick to the things that they want to do? Why can't they keep doing it over and over? We know 90% of, resolutions at the start of a year [00:17:00] are gone by the end of January. So we've got all the gusto and momentum at the start. We're motivated, um, we're disciplined, all the things, and then it falls away.
So he decided to design a formula that helped overcome the challenges that people were facing, that meant that they either they couldn't start doing something, they couldn't stop doing something, or they couldn't keep doing something. And, the Tiny Habit method essentially asks you to shrink the behavior to the m- most minimum viable version.
And how I explain it is, if you can't show up to that habit on your lowest energy day, it's not small enough And that is essentially we design the habit using the habit loop, but we shrink it, and we give you a celebration. So instead of reward, this is where the difference between BJ Fogg's methodology and James Clear, who wrote Atomic Habits.
what BJ Fogg's asked us to do is celebrate in the moment that we have done the behavior. So if we reward ourselves, say, at the end [00:18:00] of the week because we've been to the gym three times, the brain doesn't actually associate that, "Oh, I'm getting this reward because I did that thing." Because we're not in the moment anymore.
It Like, it's harder to connect. So by all means, I encourage to have rewards in place. I think it definitely does, bolster and, make the habit happen quicker, and it gives you motivation. Some people are really motivated to have rewards ahead, like little milestones. in the moment, we have to celebrate.
So that's essentially it. It's a three-step formula that I'm gonna be sharing, much more clearly, and we're gonna be practicing it, together in September at the
Candice: And one of your key messages is that behavior design beats motivation and willpower every time. That's quite different to what we've been taught. why do you think that?
Claire: Well, what we know from the science itself is that motivation and willpower are finite resources. They cannot be relied on. So your season of life is going to really, determine, and so [00:19:00] perimenopause being a prime one. If you've just had a baby, being another. If you've just changed jobs. The cognitive load, the mental capacity that kind of, pressure that's on you to show up to anything that is new is gonna be so much harder.
So when we rely on motivation and willpower, that's great for a perfect Monday morning, where it's like fresh starts, you've got your weekly plan in place, and nothing has come from left of field to knock you off. But then you have a bad night's sleep and work has exploded. Somebody's asked you to do something that you weren't planning on doing.
it's impossible to reach for that depleted resource. You don't have it available to you. Willpower has gone because you're at capacity.
So, what we wanna do is instead design so that no matter what is going on in life, no matter what comes at us, our brain feels able to take the tiny action [00:20:00] towards our goal.
So it doesn't mean that we have to keep putting off our goal, whether that's like part-time study, or you want to prioritize your health, or you want to create more work-life balance. That shouldn't be a future state. Like we treat wellbeing as if it's something that's gonna happen, like a destination, and it's actually a verb.
Like in order to stay well and a wellbeing, we have to take care of the human that is doing the doing. so essentially, willpower motivation, it's a complete myth, and if we believe that we're gonna suddenly conjure it up, then we're just setting ourselves up for a much more difficult, time.
So we wanna design the habit. And like I said, it's for those low-energy days so that even when you've had a day from hell, you're still gonna be able to show up to that walk that is only gonna take you to the end of the road and back. And we scaffold out. I work very personally with people to make [00:21:00] sure that we've got, versions of it.
You know, we've got... The habit has, the optimal version, and it's still tiny. We don't start with the mammoth goal of four times a week Pilates class. We start super small. but we have an alternative for that, you know, when things don't quite work out in the day, so that we can still feel successful, we can still move towards, like, in some way.
You know, it might not be 50 minutes, but five minutes over time, it compounds. So that's where design comes in. It gives you, like, imagine you've got a goal , And that's your destination. But imagine you don't have a GPS, and you've never driven that road. no matter how much motivation or willpower that you wanna get to that place, if you don't know how to get there, you don't know the direction of travel, you need to plug in the GPS.
And so the design of a habit is essentially giving yourself that set of directions, and that's what we help people, do based on what's important to them, and how they wanna get there.
Candice: Yeah. I think so many [00:22:00] people think that they need more discipline. Is discipline actually overrated when it comes to creating lasting change?
Claire: Well, going back to what we've just discussed about motivation and willpower, what does discipline need? What does discipline actually need? It requires focus. It requires attention. It requires a lot of effort . It requires a lot of cognitive output.
So if you are someone juggling a huge number of balls, and you're trying to make sure the glass ones don't fall and
smash ,
Claire: and you're running on, like, 40%, 30% even, of energy.
You're not sleeping brilliantly, baby's been up all night, your hormones are doing something that's not very funny, um, to you. Or even just you're traveling, and you've had, some disruption to your schedule. You don't have the routine behind you. How are you gonna summon all of those resources that you need to be disciplined?
And for high [00:23:00] performers in particular, this is a really hard kind of thing to untangle, because try harder, do more, be more, is kind of our DNA, right? That's how we've lived our whole lives. but behavior design just gives us another lever to pull. So instead of saying, "I just need to be more disciplined," we just need to ask, " how can I make this easier or simpler for myself?"
And that's where, make it tiny. and reduce the friction. Like, stop butting up against yourself, and expecting discipline to be the answer because seasons for discipline are possible and for sure. but it's not a long-term strategy, and it's certainly not sustainable to live like
Candice: Yeah. And I think admin professionals are constantly adapting, know, new technology, AI, changing expectations, changing bosses, competing priorities. Like, how do you think the Tiny Habits method can help people embrace change without being overwhelmed?
Claire: Yeah. Overwhelm is one of the key things that we tackle [00:24:00] in everything we do, and I think this is where this, it's this real sweet spot of, habit change. But you know, workplaces are, are really trying to do a lot when it comes to supporting, their employees. But they also do a great job of kind of creating some of that overwhelm because we're communicating change in terms of these, like, grandiose instructions like be more strategic or use AI, collaborate, demonstrate company values, look after your wellbeing.
Like they're all, again, vague kind of things, instructions. But they're not instructions, they're kind of expectations without any direction underneath them. So all your brain hears is like, "I need to change. I need to completely change the way I do." And it goes into panic mode. Again, the min- amygdala fires up.
And so what we do, one of the very powerful tools that we use, at The Habit Lab is a tool in particular called the 1% method. So if, you're being asked to do something new, and you're feeling overwhelmed about it, what does the [00:25:00] 1% approach to that new thing look like for you? So 1% of your day, your waking hours, is Roughly nine minutes. So whenever someone says, "Oh, I just need to learn how to use AI," what I would do is help them design a habit that in nine minutes a day, they are gonna give 1% of their day to doing this thing. And we're gonna then design a behavior that is very specific, so it's not just like shooting in the wind.
I was gonna say something else there, but you have told me that I'm allowed to swear,
so
that's fine. Um,
Candice: this podcast
Claire: but it's, it might be that every time you, have a meeting and you're the note taker. you're gonna spend nine minutes, putting it through AI and asking it to draw out the key messages, and identify the next three actions for you.
Like, that is a 1% habit that can help you build an actual skill. Maybe if it's your boss has said, like, "You need to be better at networking," maybe it's three [00:26:00] LinkedIn connections at lunchtime. But it's giving yourself a specific when and a specific what. the when and the what in the day is, what we need to reduce the overwhelm because it's like, no, I'm attending to that demand or that requirement at this point, and I can only do what I can do.
You know, good enough is good enough, is something that we do also struggle with because many of the people that will be in the room with us in a month's time or listening today are perfectionists. And we think that we have to have all the answers because especially in your profession, you do.
you usually have all the answers. But with things that do feel quite overwhelming and, scary and new and challenging, the 1% can just be solve, to really take the fear out of it
Candice: Yeah. And I love that your session isn't about adding more to an already overflowing to-do list. How did the tiny habits actually make life feel easier rather than becoming another thing to do?
Claire: Yeah, and again, if you [00:27:00] are someone who over-functions, and by that I mean over-gives, over-performs, over-delivers, this can be really tricky because we put it on our to-do list. We put, whatever the habit is or the goal is on the to-do list, and often we make it way too big and way too, demanding.
so I like to help people take things off their to-do list rather than put things on. we have become strangely, obsessed in habit culture and social media with adding things like, more meditation, more reading, more journaling, more water, more exercise, like more steps, more of a morning routine.
Like it's more, more, more, and we don't have anything left to give. So what tiny habits does, and one of the like most powerful questions that anyone can ask in any given time to help take the tiny action to the thing that they know they wanna do less or more of is just [00:28:00] ask What does my human need in this moment?"
What does my human need? And rather than making it a to-do list, like putting it on and giving yourself a future problem to deal with, in the moment, just asking yourself Do I need to eat lunch? Do I need to step away from my desk? Do I need to write out a list?" One of the things, um, a lot of people love when I'm in a room with them is the , concept of the worry dump.
So if you're someone ruminates over all the things that you've gotta do and, or this one situation, you keep playing it out at work, and guilt or shame around it, just set a timer for nine minutes, 1% of your day, and just write out or type out on your phone or computer everything that's coming up to do with that thought or worry.
93% of our thoughts that we have do not happen. 93% of our worries do not happen. So only 7% of the things that we worry about are actually things to worry about. [00:29:00] So I really just s- get people to start removing the pressure, not make this something that is another thing to do, and make it feel good.
Like it should feel good, wherever you are. There's times in our lives when we have to do things, sure. Like if you're someone who has a deadline and it's a big event that you're just getting towards, that is important and, we can't be avoided. But when you really ask yourself like, " is this actually being asked of me? Do I have to do this now in this way?" And I still have to do this constantly, like this kind of sanity check, because, nine times out of 10, it's pressures we're putting on ourselves. It's actually not expectations from outside. And it's not to say that expectations aren't there. But putting your human first is all it really is about, and honoring what your human needs, is a really great place to start when it comes to building better habits.
Candice: Your language is [00:30:00] triggering me in that you're saying you're human, you're human. We've totally forgot about the human. We talk about the AI, the agent, the bot, the this, but the human behind it all is just so important to like... One of the worst habits I think of EAs is they reward themselves with a toilet break I get through this list, if I can do that, I'll allow myself to go to the bathroom
Claire: mean, unless you're taking a podcast to the toilet with you or giving yourself some sort of, like, sweet treat on the way, That ain't a break, girl. That is not wellbeing in action, and that is not putting your human first. That's a basic human need that you will die without, performing.
So we want, to be able to put our human first, and it's really been in the rooms that I've been privileged enough to be in and seen people's faces when they think about... When I ask the question, When was the last time you put your human first?" Before everyone e- it's actually, like I get emotional even just [00:31:00] reflecting on how many of us do just think that we are at the bottom of the to-do list, the priority list.
Our needs don't matter, and we get to ignore that. it is a slippery slope, and the car crash might not happen instantly, but it will come, and I just, I feel so passionately. Like, it doesn't need to look like a two-hour, massage. It can literally look like literally touching grass.
Like, I know we joke about it, but going outside, phoning a friend, voice noting a friend, I'm a big fan of that . Listening to a 20-minute podcast, having a cup of herbal tea. ritualizing our lives in ways that make it yummy because bloody hell, that's all it is, is just minutes passing, and it, it is the sum of our life.
And do we wanna reflect? If every day feels like Groundhog Day, that is your life. How you spend your time is how you spend your life. So making time for you is even in, you know, those tiny little pockets in the day can make such a difference, over
time [00:32:00] on how you feel and, like, the level of fulfillment that you
have.
Candice: One of the things I missed the most being in London was putting my feet in grass. Like, I would never put my feet in grass in London. You never know what's hiding amongst the reeds.
Claire: Are you kidding This is where the snakes and insects
Candice: Oh, snake me up. But no, I mean that beautiful luscious grass that's near the beach where it's cold as well, and you just touch it and then you go to the sand, and then you go, "Oh."
I yearned for it. My body yearned for yep, now I'm back
and I can do it
Claire: Are you doing your, grass feet touching?
Candice: not doing it enough. This is
what I say about this conference. I am you. I don't pretend to be that I am, have better habits than anybody else. I am possibly the worst. This is why I need this conference, to retrain my brain and to remind me that I'm not invincible, and that I can't just keep going at the rate that I'm going without repercussion
Claire: And I am also you [00:33:00] as well. Just because I know what I should be doing doesn't make it any easier to do, because for 38 years, those are the habits that I had. It was the way of staying safe. It was the way I showed up in the world This is a lifelong project. You are a lifelong project that deserves, to be able to fulfill, like, the life that you want, like, in the moment, and really that is where meaning can be found.
But it's not-- It doesn't get any easier. I have-- I'm sorry about that. not gonna share the method and all of a sudden, like,
Candice: Bang.
Claire: solved. Not at all. ~It-~ I still have to keep coming back to it. I have had burn- periods of burnout. Not as serious, but I have had to have... You know, this trip to Bali is very purposeful.
It's a reset that I need because I've had some big tricky life things happen and, you know, those are gonna happen. But what Tiny Habits method has given me is a lifeline during those periods where life throws shit at you. And since learning [00:34:00] the Tiny Habit method, I've had a marriage breakdown.
I've become a single mum. I've started-- I've gone up
all in in the business. Like, there's been lots of these kind of monumental... I've moved house twice. It's like those things that happen in life that you've gotta have your armor on for. But it's the habits that have held me through. it's the habits that mean that I'm not, you know, breaking myself in pieces every time because I've kind of got the foundations.
And sometimes the foundations are so basic. I have a few, and I'll share them again at the conference, And they take less than nine minutes, but these are my, like, non-negotiable that I will prioritize because I know that's what I need to survive those kind messy periods which we just
can't predict or
Candice: Yep. Yep. And one of your takeaways is building habits that stick, so even when life is busy and unpredictable, as you were just saying, you know, routines change, life change, elderly parent gets sick. you know, why do traditional habit building [00:35:00] methods often fall apart when life gets messy?
Claire: Well, it can be for a number of reasons we know, dependent on the individual and how well-formed the habit actually is. So anything that's not, completely ingrained, like in your neural pathways as a habit, is gonna fall away the minute life asks more of you. it will be the gym when you're trying to move house or start a new job, or you've got this massive event that you're trying to run.
Like, if the gym doesn't feel like a foundational, and you haven't yet given yourself evidence that it is actually one of your survival tools and fuels you, then it's going to fall away. one of the key things that we're up against is the misinformation in social media around how habit-building
happens. One of my favorites is that it takes 21 days to build a habit. That's nonsense. nonsense. [00:36:00] And I love, being able to dispel that whenever I can. So it's very clear in the research, and the largest study into habit formation from, a university in London, found in 2009, that on average to build a habit, it takes 66 days, on average, and that's 10 weeks.
So that's a whole school term And we think that we should be showing up for ourselves to this new thing that we've started or decided that we're gonna do, in a week or three weeks And so when you see, 21 days to get a six-pack or learn to meditate transform your whole life, that's bullshit.
It's actually, misinformation, and it's leading people in the wrong direction. Of course, you can gain skills in that time, and of course, you can make a really good start, but the minimum time in the same study, which as I said, it was 2009, but it's been repeated much more recently, and has found exactly the same, but the minimum is [00:37:00] 27, but that's very few and far between.
and it could be the more difficult the habit, the more challenging, the more times you've tried and it's never quite worked, it's up to 254 days . So, that's what we're working with, and really, that needs to be front of mind when we're trying to ask ourselves, like, to do the hard thing. Habit change is bloody hard, and if we don't design it right, and part of that design is connecting to why you're doing it in the first place, not someone else's habit or just because you've been told or you heard a podcast and you think.
Like, what does it mean for you? You connect to that, and then you can design it in a way that's meaningful, in the context of your life.
Candice: So on that, without giving too much away, can you share an example of a tiny habit that our listeners could start today?
Claire: So I did kind of shade it in the context of another, answer, but I really want to come back to it because we need to hear things 30 times for it to [00:38:00] land, apparently. so one of... This is my favorite tiny habit. It's the one that resonates most. It's the easiest, and it's for those moments where you either feel overwhelmed, you're having some sort of stress response.
what is the practical step that we can
take? Or maybe you're even--
Pardon. Eat your chocolate. Yeah, if that is your tool, then bloody oath. I sound weird saying that word in the Scottish accent , absolutely, eat the chocolate bar, whatever it is that you need.
Well, the question that you ask, it's a question, and it is: What does my human need? So this question came up , and I noticed it from my own life. Like, why is it so hard to give ourselves, like, what we need? Because we just, keep going, and high performers and over-functioners do just keep going for other people.
we are so good, and EAs and PAs and managers, are so good at noticing everyone else's needs. if the dog needs fed, they'll feed it. If the plant is drooping, you'll give it water. your [00:39:00] colleague looks overwhelmed, you'll notice, and you'll ask if there's anything you can do to help, or you've worked out what your boss needs, three steps before they have even finished the sentence.
But we're sitting there thirsty and hungry and overstimulated and exhausted and desperate for a break, and we just keep going. So this is-- think of this as the, like, pattern interrupter. It's a circuit breaker question: What does my human need?
And, like, third-partying it can take the guilt, 'cause that's what we do. Guilt. I can't possibly give myself what I need. But actually, rest is productive. like, we know this. It's been evidenced. Like, we just need to give ourselves evidence of that. So we have to ask the question. That's the first step. ~So notice it. Sorry. ~Noticing is the first step, that you need something.
You're overwhelmed. you're stuck. Maybe you're procrastinating Noticing is the first step, then asking, "What does my human need?" And then actioning. Like, listen. you don't need to go and put in, a day of leave or [00:40:00] do some sort of, 14-step morning routine.
we just want the next useful thing. Like, just listen to the whisper. It, it will be there before you start giving yourself a thousand options. just do one thing, and if you are so overwhelmed and overstimulated, just move environment. Just move. Like, that's enough to disrupt the feeling. but whatever you do, don't just sit in the moment.
it's so basic, but sometimes that's the point. It's annoyingly... the things that are most effective are the most basic, and, starts with noticing yourself in the first
Candice: Yeah. And I'm just mindful of time 'cause I know that you need to get on and get cracking for your holiday as well. But I
Claire: This has been such
a fun conversation
Candice: it's so interesting, like I cannot wait for this session. I can't wait to learn about the framework. I can't... we've only got the short time. So if someone was attending the keynote, what practical tools will they leave with?
what can they expect to be they can go, "Yep, I'm taking that and I'm gonna put that into action the next day"?
Claire: Okay. So I'm gonna be giving [00:41:00] people something that they can practically try on the next morning. So we're not gonna be asking you to, redesign your whole life, re-engineer, everything that you wanna do or need to do. You're gonna get one really specific tiny habit that I've not yet shared, but this is where we all start with the Tiny Habits method when we're learning it.
We start with this one morning habit. we know the most successful people in the world have a morning routine that sets them up for success. So this is gonna add something to your morning that you can try and really give yourself evidence like, "Holy shit, that does actually feel really good. It does feel like something that I wanna do more often."
and we're going to really help you, connect with the, the idea of this 1% behavior. And so it is a framework, but the framework has no prescribed habits in it. That is up to you and we kind of give you the compass, we help direct you [00:42:00] to the kind of things that you wanna be asking, that you wanna be thinking about.
we are gonna give you a super simple starting place. and hopefully, this is just gonna be the start of a more amazing, like fulfilling things for you and feeling more connected, to what your human, the human behind the doing needs in day-to-day life.
Candice: And on that, if there was one behavior, and I think I know what you're gonna say, that you wish every admin professional could start changing today, what would that be?
Claire: I was having a think about this question and trying to really remember, place myself back into what it's like when you are d- responding to so many demands, and you have so many plates to juggle and people's priorities to think about. And one kind of habit stood out, and it is related to what does my human need, but in a specific moment, and it is, related to boundaries.
So a lot of the time people say, "I need to have more boundaries," but We don't know what that looks like. That's really abstract as a concept. And [00:43:00] something I've noticed that's been working well for people who do struggle, including me, with their boundaries, and they say yes when really they shouldn't, they mean to say no, but that's really hard, is to create a pause before a request and an automatic yes.
So rather than going straight to yes, and, we create a pause, and just the pause is when you ask, "What does my human need?" And that allows you to just check in, like what does my workload look like? What are my... You know, really map the request to the reality. And the response can be as simple, "Let me check, and, um, what I've got on, and I'll come back to you."
And that's, that tiny pause can also be the circuit breaker for these moments where we end up over-committing. it's really a behavior for slowing down, and that's what we're all trying to do, I think, in this overwhelming, over-stimulating world that we are currently navigating, as [00:44:00] a community.
No matter what job you're in, to be honest, but particularly, if you are in service of others in such a big way.
Candice: One of my tips that I used to do was when people would approach my desk and have an ask of me, I would put it back on them and be like, " I'm just deep in it right now. Can you go back to your desk and send me an email so I can pick it up
Claire: Perfect. And if and you then get that written, so you said earlier you need it written down. Your brain cannot actually cognitively process in that conversation because, you've not got the, ability to focus. You're not hearing you won't have good judgment skills. So
Candice: And also I'll pick it up when I'm
ready. Just because you approached the table or the desk of the admin doesn't mean they have to drop what they're doing 'cause you decided that was the time that you were gonna approach them
Claire: And I think you've got l- so many amazing sessions lined up for, the conference in Adelaide that are gonna really give like targeted strategies that are just gonna be so helpful for, like exactly [00:45:00] like
that one, and I'm So excited.
Candice: am I. Yes. Good, good. we want it because the beautiful thing of it is there's such a flow of, the theme in this, this conference as well. So I think there'll be so much that each speaker will be like, clicking, just being like, "Yes, that's it. Yes, that's, what we're talking about."
Claire: You've really have done
a great job of weaving
Candice: you
Claire: like honestly, if you've not looked to the agenda , like go and have a look at it. It's honestly like mind-blowing.
Candice: I'm really excited for it, and this is, why I curate it, 'cause I get excited by it. I'm like, "This is exactly what I need right now, so surely other admins
Claire: And it's so Like every topic links into the other, but the curation piece, like it is so topical and timely the way that you've put it together. So yeah, well
done.
Candice: you. Thank you
Claire: in the room with you And lots of people, in Adelaide at the Marriott at the end
of
Candice: Yes. Yeah, so exciting. Well, go and get packed for your holiday. I will be sitting here jealous [00:46:00] while you're having a nice hot sun, and I'm sitting in Sydney, cold. The sun is out, but it's, it's just, ugh, cold.
Claire: Oh, I know. I won't rub it in, but, uh, yeah, I d- my lupus-ridden body is definitely in need of some heat. Adelaide, three degrees on the car the other day. I was like, "Nah, I did not..." I feel like I've been duped moving to
Australia. I had no idea that there were seasons. Anyway, that was my bad.
I am not a detailed
person.
Candice: we can't
Claire: right.
Candice: see you in September. Thank you for joining us today, and, um, we will speak to you very soon.
Claire: Thanks,
Candice: Bye.