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Episode 544: In this episode, Chris and Kyle focus on 2 Samuel Chapter 21. They provide context for the chapter, noting that it takes place during the later years of King David's reign, a time marked by famine due to Saul's past actions against the Gibeonites. The hosts discuss the implications of generational sin and the cultural practices of the time, including the idea that entire families could be held accountable for a father's crimes.
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You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in practical ways. Hey, good morning everyone. My name is Chris Zarba and my name is Kyle Dobbin Meyer. Dobbin Meyer, you said your last name. I had to follow. Both of us have weird last names. Yeah, right, I mean, in other words, it's not like Smith, No, right, even Forrester's pretty pretty doable, fun fact. I mean, I don't know, you'll think this is fine. I think this is I think the our listeners are like this. So the other day I was looking up on our database, which for our church that we both work at, Heritage. We have this database attracts names, and we're looking up names just to see, you know, how many Dobbin Myers have ever attended Heritage. There's twenty three Dobbin Myers in our database, which is kind of a lot. But then I searched. I was like, wonder how many Smiths there are. There's like five hundred and thirty five people with the last name Smith that have ever attended Heritage. So I thought that was pretty wild. Wow, thirty five out of like seventy thousand names. But still, yeah, that's pretty wild. Yeah, that's incredible. Do you know that here we are just just rambling about the names. When I lived Atlanta, Georgia for ten years back in the nineties, they still had phone books, right, and in Atlanta, I had I think it was either two or three phone books. I think it was two, but it was like, you know, really like six inches thick, and it was like a through m okay, but it was the greater Atlanta area. It was four million. People and then and so anyway, it was z and so I looked up and I thought, I wonder how many zarbas there are in the city of Atlanta. I had a four million people. I looked it up. We're the only ones? Are you serious? The only ones? We're the only zarbas in places. Yeah, So it's pretty funny. That's kind of wild to think about the phone book. That's a different time, man, a different time nowadays. It's like, yeah, that's it's crazy to even think that the phone book existed. Yeah, I think I think that's when I started prank calling people. It was the first phone book I had at my parents' house. Right. Yeah, So hey, we're gonna start off with a segment called the Babylon b because we are dedicated to the best. News for our listeners, only the best. And if you don't know, bebelon Bee's a satire column, but it's always hilarious. It's a very sophisticated humor and it is very funny. They write it as if it's true, which to me is just so funny. So here's how the article reads. The headlines says kid cleverly waits until bedtime before asking dad to explain the trinity. Okay Omaha, Nebraska local father Sam Libert was tricked into keeping his children up far too late last night after his kids cleverly waited until bedtime to ask him to explain the trinity. Libert had just finished getting his children, Bradley and Evelyn, washed up and changed into pajamas and tucked away securely into their beds when Evelyn repeatedly gave Bradley a knowingly glance and asked, Daddy, what is the trinity? Can you tell us? Sam froz for a moment before answering, uh, he said, the Trinity is well, it's complicated, don't you know, daddy? Bradley asked, quickly pressing his father on the issue. Of course I do, son, Sam said, confidently, It's just it's one of those things that it's like, you know, hold on a minute. The Libert family, the livered children continue to contain their glee, knowing that their plan had worked. Sources within uh, hang hang on. Sources with inside knowledge of the Libert household claimed to have the kids weren't interested in the specifics of the trinity, but just. Wanted to get out of going to bed. In any event, Sam bravely formulated his response, You know, Clover's right, how they have three leaves and yet there's still one clover? Yeah, His children started stared silently. Now, wait, that's not the best explanation. How about this an egg? An egg has three different parts, the shell, the white, and the yolk, right, but it's one egg, get it? Or wait, it's a lot more than that, it's actually Sam then noticed that his explanation of the trinity had inadvertently put bread and evidence of sleep. At publishing time, Bradley and Evelyn were holding a closed door meeting today to devise a better plan to stay up later than the normal bedtime by asking their dad to explain free will versus God's sovereignty. That is so funny. That's great. I've actually never heard the clover one too. I've heard the agg illustration about this the whole. That's kind of funny though. Yeah, you never love everyone. Yeah, but I actually can relate those. When my kids were younger, especially, they would ask it's felt like the most deep questions. Oh God, you're about to put in a bed. And they're like like, like, Dad, do you love me? And I'm like, of course, well, can you tell us how much you love me? Like you? What is what is love to you? You're like, how are you asking this question right now? I was always right then and there they dropped those bombs. You know. That's when my son accepted christ was I was talking him into bed, and I was like, we had just stayed up late. We just watched Spider Man number one, and you know, I remember our uncle Ben get shot and dies. Won, like the two thousand and four Spider Man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, told. Yeah, and so yeah, he was like five or six years old and we and we I'm not sure if we watch it right when it came out or a couple of years later. I think it was a couple of years later because it was at home. We watched it and I'm talking to Bed and I'm like, I'm like, son, it's late. We got to go to bed, and he goes. Dad, he goes because what happens when a person dies? And I'm like, I got to go. So I mean, like, I'm talking to you tomorrow. And then finally we just started talking about it and he's like, so he's like, do people go to heaven? How do I get to heaven? And I'm like, are you serious right now? And so finally I just sort of surrendered to it and I was like, I think my son is asking me about about salvation. So we just talked and talked and talked, and he prayed right there and that's how he got saved. That's great, which. Was you know, hey, that's a good lesson, I guess, and just knowing his parents that you know, maybe your kids are playing something playing you, but also it may lead to a great conversation. Well, I tell you what. Here's great advice to parents, and that is budget time for checking your kids into bed. Always budget time because as parents, we want to get them in the bed and then get downstairs to what lounge around probably right, turn on the TV and lounge most of the time. Or something silly like that. But if you budget time to tuck your kids into bed, those are some of the best moments that you can have. That's really good. It's really really good. Yeah, you never know what could come from it too. Yep. All right, So I know we're in Second Samuel, chapter twenty one. Let's see what verses we're reading today. This one is twenty one Chapter twenty one. Verses one through twenty two is what I'm going to be reading. Hey, i'd like to read this. It's a really good statement of context. It basically summarizes it by saying, these are the later years of David's reign. David ruled over Israel for many years. After the rebellions of Absolom and Sheba. He finally subdued the Philistines and wrote a song of praise to God for giving the nation rest from all their enemies. Near the end of Israel, he decided to take a census and violation of God's wishes, leading to tragic consequences for the nation. It's a good contract set up, Yep, great setup. All right. Second Samuel will start in verse one Chapter twenty one says there was a famine during David's reign that. Lasted for three years. So David asked the Lord about it, and the Lord said, the famine has come because Saul and his family are guilty of murdering the Gibeonites. So the king summoned the Gibbeanites. They were a part. They're not part of Israel, but we're all that was left in the nation of the Amorites. The people of Israel had sworn not to kill them, but Saul and his zeal for Israel and Judah had tried to wipe them out. David asked them, what can I do for you? How can I make amends so that you will bless the Lord's people again. Well, money can't settle this matter between us and the family of Saul. The gibbean Nites replied, neither can we demand the life of anyone in Israel. What can I do? Then David asked, just tell me and I will do it for you. Then they replied, it was Saul who planned to destroy us, to keep us from having any place at all in the territory of Israel. So let seven of Saul's sons be handed over to us. We will execute them before the Lord at Gibeon on the mountain of the Lord. All right, the king said, I will do it. The King spared Jonathan's son Mephibisheth, which we talked about earlier this week, as well, who was Saul's grandson. Because of the oath David and Jonathan had sworn beatfore the Lord, but he gave them Sauls two sons, Harmoni and Maphibisheth, whose mother was Rispa daughter of aa. He also gave them the five sons of Saul's daughters, Mireb the wife of Ariel, son of Barzilai from Mahola. The men of Gibeon executed them on the mountain before the Lord, so all seven of them died together at the beginning of the barley harvest. Then Rispah daughter of Aia, the mother of two of the men, spread burlap on a rock and stayed there the entire harvest season. She prevented the scavenger birds from tearing at their bodies during the day and stopped wild animals from eating them at night. When David learned what Rispah Sal's concombine had done, he went to the people of Jabesh Giliad and retrieved the bones of so All and his son Jonathan. Then it says in quotes, when the Philistines had killed Saul and Jonathan on Mount Gilboa, the people of Gibesh Giliad stole their bodies from the public square of Bethshan, where the Philistines had hung them. So David obtained the bones of sal and Jonathan, as well as the bones the men the gibe Knits had executed. Then the king ordered that they bury the bones in the tomb of Kish, Saul's father, the town of Zeila in the land of Bejamin. After that God ended the famine in the land. And then it says this next section is about the battles against the Philistine giants, which David has a history of that as we know with David and Goliath. But it says this once again, the Philistines were at war with Israel, and when David and his men were in the thick of battle, David became weak and exhausted. Ishbai Banab was a descendant of the giants. His bronze spear had weighed more than seven pounds, and he was armed with a new sword. He had cornered David and was about to kill him, but Abeshi, son of Zarua came to David's rescue and killed the Philistine. Then David's men declared, you're not going out to battle with us again. Why we're snuffing out the light of Israel. After this, there was another battle against the Philistines of gob As they fought Sibekai from Husha killed saff another descendant of the Giants. During another battle of gob El, Hennan, son of Jar from Bethlehem, killed the brother of Goliath of Gath. The handle of his spear was as sticks, was as thick as a beaver's beam. Weavers beed, there you go, I totally do you say beaver's weed, I did weaver's beam. In another battle of the Philistines of Gath, they encountered a huge man with six fingers on each hand, his six toes on each foot, twenty four in all. I love that that they had to add it up for us, twenty four in all, who was also a descendant of the giants. But when he defiled and taunted Israel, he was killed by Jonathan, the son of David's brother Shamea. These four Philistines were descended to the giants of Gath, but David and his warriors killed them. Wow. Yeah, so uh so David here is just tired, yes, and obviously he is uh still having to deal with uh giants, all these Philistines and uh and what what what a mess he's having to deal with the uh there's a famine in the land. And he goes to God and says, why is there a famine the land? God's ultimately in control of all those things, right, Famine usually meant there's no rain, right, So there's no rain, there's no crops. Uh, there's there's. Hardly any water. So and and then and then what does God say? God says, well, it's because of these sins that are you know, taking care of the past. So it is really interesting how the rules of war for us just seem so unbelievably horrible, and they are, but in those days, it wasn't anything to you know, hand over the spoils of war, you know. So you know, here Saul has done this great injustice. Or remember there's no government, right, there's no government, there's no laws of the land, which is one of the reasons why God gave levitical laws, and you know, there were cultural laws. There was there was laws. That God gave because there was no government, so you had to follow and there was consequences, you know, for actions. You had to have consequences for misbehaving. And so because there's none of that, you know, that's why there's rules. So anyway, all that to say, you know, here here's Saul misbehaves and there's no consequences for him, right, and so you know, here's God reacting to sin in a way that he does not react to today. You know, he doesn't act that way today because of our sins. But back then here we have this consequences of the sins. It's what does this say? It's a three years right, it's a three year famine all because of yeah, this act. Yeah yeah, yeah, Well, I mean I shouldn't say that God doesn't react that way entirely, because you know, sin does have an effect on different generations. There's generational sin. We certainly know that. But this idea that David would have to hand over a sacrifice to make me right, I certainly know for a fact that the principles don't carry over. We don't have to pay for our sins with a sacrifice, because the sacrifice has already been given. Huh in that way that you know, that's completely not relevant for ours even to fall along with that. In the Life Application Study Bible, there's a note about that. It says, although the Bible does not recoverd Saul's act of vengeance against the Gibba Kights, it was apparently a serious crime making guilty. Of their blood. Still, why were Saul's sons killed for the murders of their father committed? And this kind of gives us context. What you're sharing there is that in many Near Eastern cultures, including Israel, an entire family was held guilty for the crime of the father because the family was considered an indissoluble unit. Saul broke the vow that Israels had made to the Gibbei Ights. This was a serious offense against God's law, which is numbers thirty. And either David was falling in the custom of treating the families a unit, or Saul's sons were guilty of helping Saul kill the Gibbean Kights. So what's saying here is maybe they were actually guilty for killing the Gibbon Kites. Maybe Saul's sons were involved in that, they were actually like they were a part of it, or maybe it's just a part of the custom in which they they they had to be like an eye for an eye type situation there. But either way, you're right, I'm so thankful that that's that we don't have to. Yeah, yeah, because again, the sacrifice has already been made for us since right, so there's no restitution that we would have to pay, you know, of the life of somebody because of because of what we've done. But nevertheless, here's David. He's coming to the end of his reign. He's still dealing with all that, you know, all that stuff, and and hey, you know what I absolutely love about this. It's hilarious is that he said, Paul says, or the Bible says that that David spared miss Phibisheth, who was Saul's grandson. But so then he gave them Saul's two sons, Amri and Phibischeff. Yeah, I thought it was interesting. Which is another name? Okay, just like there's three James. Yeah, yeah, he's another son. There's different John's. In fact, it even says uh uh. At the end of the chapter it says when he defied and talked to Israel, he was killed by Jonathan, the son of David's brother Shamiah. And when you hear Jonathan, you think of Salson Jonathan, right, So there's different phibischeffs. And apparently that was a name good enough. I'd like to meet him. Would you imagine that being a name good enough? Yeah, that's wild. By the way. I I had a guy, a kid who I actually knew in the second grade, and his name was Epifanio. Wow, have you ever met? I think it's biblical, though it's gonna be in one of these verses, that's for sure. Yeah, for sure, I'm gonna be reading it. Yeah. One thing I say to and I do love the fact, you know you're. Reading this and you're seeing that song. All sons were held responsible for even either as father's actions or their own. Either way, there's a serial I mean death because of that. But I'm so thankful, aren't we thankful that we aren't judged in that same way? As you mentioned earlier? There is I do believe that there is generational sin, but at the same time, I love the fact that we aren't held accountable for the mistakes of our parents or grandparents, and and and and the more you get to know God, the more you get to know Scripture, you get to see in the New Testament, you begin to realize that He separates our sin as far as the east is from the west. And I think it's it's one of those things when I think on, you know, my parents, my grandparents and things that happen, and I'm just so thankful that we have a God who gives us a new chance, a new start, a fresh start at life, and wipes us late clean. And we should be thankful for that as well. Yeah, you know, it's it's interesting, but don't you find yourself becoming. More and more like your parents the order you. Get and uh, And that's a good thing in a lot of ways, because you know the good side of your parents. But at the same time, many times we are victims of becoming you know, the sort of the we sort of emulate the bad side, right, And so it's interesting how as much head knowledge as we can have in our lives, we behave in such ways we don't even recognize it in ourself. And then we takes somebody like our wives or somebody close to us, a good friend and says, hey, you're acting like your dad, and you'd say, no, I'm not. And then you step back and you go, oh, my gosh, I am I'm doing the same things. I'm doing the same things, you know. Jeff Forrester always says that the reason why he doesn't drink alcohol not because taking a sip of alcohol is a sin, because that's not a sin. But he says, the reason why I'll do it is because he said my parents, my parents were alcoholics, right, or at least his dad was. And he says, so he goes, I am probably a predisposed alcoholic, and so therefore he goes, I'm pretty sure that in fact, he's said that before. But he doesn't take a drink. And he's over in another country and they offer him a drink. He goes, oh, no, no, no, thank you. I'm an alcoholic and it's the best way to get out of it, right, And they're like, well, okay, we're not gonna Uh. It's like, uh, I just saw a movie Crazy Stupid Love with Steve Corell and and uh and it's Marissa Tome who He's in a bar and he walks over and he goes, let me buy you a drink, and she says, no, no, thank you, and he goes, come on, let me buy you a drink, and she goes, I'm five years sober. And the waitress comes over and she goes, we're gonna get for you, and he goes. Go away forever, do not come back here. Right, that's right, you trying to be all smooth, try to pick her up, but then realized it was not the right It's. Not the right way. But that'll get you out of it. But the reason why he says to do that, and Jeff does is because he says, hey, you know, chances are he goes, there's something chemically about my body. It's probably I probably am alcoholic. Right, he doesn't know, but but that's it is the case. We we uh we we do uh we. We are fickle. We are are very fragile human beings. And the older I get, the more that I value counseling. I'm not sure if you ever been in therapy. Have you ever been a therapy? But you know, I sometimes think like, oh, you know, I'm from the generation. I think Generation X is really a generation that hopefully we're better than our previous generation. Hopefully every generation gets a little better. But you know, we've been taught by our generation, you know, the the Boomers that you know, you just sort of pull yourself up by your bootstraps to tough enough. You sort of ignore it, you know, you sweep it under the carpet. And that's that's what was modeled for us. And hopefully our generation, you know, is the one that says, you know what, it's okay to say I love you to our kids. So our generation is really the first one to saturate, you know, our kids with the I love you because because we weren't saturated with it because guess why their parents weren't modeled. They weren't modeled. That's that's not what their. Parents were, the silent generation who never said a flipping thing ever, Right, And so for our parents to say I love you is a rare thing. You know. But but our generation says, now we're going to say I love you. I'm getting off on a tangent here, but I'm talking to us. I started off talking about sin. Right, we are such fickle and frads of human beings. It's amazing how God in the Bible gives us advice on who we are. You know, we just we just learned this in our small group last night. How he says a soft answer turns away wrath, and we were like, does it really? And then we try it in our practices and our conflicts. We're like, wow, it does work. We realize how fickle we are as humans, and as much head knowledge and as much wisdom as we have about ourselves, we have to realize that we are victims of our father's sins, and we are victims of our mother's sins and our and our and our family's tendencies, and we do carry over. Have you ever seen those commercials by I think it's agressive, progressive becoming your parents? I love, what is it? Don't become like your parent? What was to say, don't become like your parents? And then it does the it's so good, they're good, they're so good. Guess what. They're funny for a reason because they're true true, yes, right, yep, yeah, And that's usual. At least, it's showing more like the meme side, the joke side of what it's like to become like your parents, you know, But. No, I think there's something to that. I think you're right. I do wonder if sometimes what happens is you say, man, I'll never become like that, I'll never do that, and what ends up happening is for one, maybe maybe it's in the blood, and I definitely there's that. There's some some you know, predisposition towards certain things or struggles or temptations. But I think what happens so often is we start looking outward, looking man if they wouldn't have done that, if this person wanted to, instead of just having a little bit of self awareness and saying, man, I just need to really work on this. This is something I need to work on. His quit pointing fingers, blaming somebody else, This is something I need to work on. And I'm wondering if sometimes that would help, because I find myself in the same way some of the things that would frustrate me about family members or friends, and I'm saying I will never become that way, and then you stip back and you're like, man, I'm becoming that way. Like I'm duplicating exactly what I said I would not do. But it takes some humility and self awareness to say I don't want to just continue to blame or point fingers. I won't do that. I need to actually say no, I'm gonna pause and try to turn from those ways. Yeah. Yeah, So one good, one good takeaway from this chapter as we wrap it up, is to say, hey, listen, the sacrifice has already been paid, you know, for your for any generational sin. However, uh, you know, we have to pay attention to the fact that there is sin that has passed down in families. Uh, there are tendencies, there are there are things that we do, we gravitate toward, we behave in ways that we're unaware of. That's been proven and uh, and so let's pay attention to that, but ultimately realizing that Jesus has paid the sacrifice for any wrongdoing that any of our parents have done or we have ever done. Right, So there's not a there's not a a sacrifice that's going to be demanded like this and David, but let's pay attention to generational sin. That's good. All right, Well, that's that's our time. Let's go ahead and wrap up, and we'll see you hopefully next time on the Bible guys, see tomorrow. H m hm, m mmmmmmm