Navigating Life After Loss

 In this first episode of Two Dancing Widows, we introduce our hosts, Toni and Hettie, two remarkable women who’ve each faced profound loss and emerged with a renewed sense of purpose. They share the personal journeys that inspired them to create this podcast—a space dedicated to stories of resilience, hope, and finding joy again after life-altering challenges. Join us as we dive into their heartfelt stories and set the stage for the powerful conversations to come. 

What is Two Dancing Widows?

Finding life after loss, Two Dancing Widows dives into the stories of resilience, hope, and transformation. Hosts Toni and Hettie welcome new guests each week, from widowers and life coaches to those battling severe illness, who share their journeys through struggle and their paths back to joy. This podcast is for anyone navigating grief or simply looking for inspiration to live and love deeply again. Tune in for heartfelt conversations that remind us all that healing, while challenging, is a dance worth stepping into.

Sometimes there's no stopping a downpour of grief, yet we can learn to dance in the rain.

Taken from we are widow warriors.

Hey Tony, it's Heady and you know what?

I called you because we have been talking about during this podcast and we were talking

about names and one of the names we looked at were you know, or is two dancing widows.

And you know, I just kind of thought that my intent behind that is kind of walk through

a few things about grief overcoming it and then just finding a new experience for yourself

or redefining life again.

And how do you do that?

And I thought the first thing you do is you start dancing and that kind of helps to leave

you know, sort of the grief behind or at least feels the whole that's been left in your

heart.

I don't know, what do you think?

And that's funny that you should say that because we all know truthfully that I don't

really like any type of exercise.

However, I love to dance.

I've always loved to dance and that is the one thing you can get me to do.

And music for me really can lift my spirits.

Music for me was very helpful and even dancing, even when Jim was bedridden, we would dance.

He could hold my hand and I would do the legwork, but we could enjoy music and dance.

So I love that thought.

Wow, that's really cool.

And I do and I think about how Jimmy was not really a dancer.

Now he liked to slow dance, but I think there was a little bump in grind that went along

with that.

But you know, in the last few days, a few days before, you know, I lost him.

I would just play music for him.

And some music does have a healing quality, a connective quality.

You know, it kind of brings back, I guess, memories is what it does.

It creates memories and can also create new ones as well.

And just so we're discussing now because I didn't know that about you and Jimmy.

Yes.

And Jimmy and I went way back.

We met at 13 and 14.

So all the old miracles, records and all of those, all of that had history.

I was reading somewhere recently that and I thought, wow, I had to really think about

the statement.

It said, when things become uncomfortable for us and our present, most of the time people

will reach back to be feel better, be validated, feel embraced or loved or whatever.

Some level of comfort they reach back to their past.

And or they sometimes think forward to their future.

So and that was one of the strategies for dealing with painful present.

Wow.

And I thought, I wonder, I wanted to think about that.

Is that something I do?

I don't think so, but maybe.

I don't know.

I mean, that's really deep because, you know, and talk about thinking about things, I'm

always coming up with crazy thoughts, I think.

And then I think, oh, that's not too crazy.

That's just kind of like you.

And I guess I've been kind of known as kind of a kinky name in some ways and in some corners

and by some people, because I was thinking about death.

And if we can define death as an obstacle to living and not just the usual death in the

sense of like we are talking about being widows and the loss of our, our mates, our best

friends, our lifelong companions.

But is there a death to divorce and job loss and injury or even to age, you know,

leaving your fifties into your sixties, leaving your sixties into your seventies?

Is there or is that too big or too wide of a concept?

I love it.

I'd never thought of it that way, but I think all those things that you named, they are.

And they make us uncomfortable and they make us grieve and feel bad for that time.

And I think you could call them deaths, absolutely.

Yeah.

And I think then our objective for like one of the things that we talked about is getting

through that.

And I think that it's okay to do some of it alone.

I think it's okay to do some of it together.

But I think the big thing is going to be talking with others about how they did it.

You know, the process because, you know, again, being kind of kinky or the kinky name,

like I can be sometimes, I can come up with things to do it all on my own.

But I think I'm happiest when I feel, or maybe I feel more validated when others help me out

with some of that or give me new ideas.

You know, not that I tend to think other people's ideas are better than my own matter of fact.

There's probably one by one of my downfalls is that I always think I've got the right answer.

But inevitably it turns out that maybe I don't.

I'm laughing because I do know that sassy side of few.

But I think it I think for me, I was an only child and so some of that doing it alone

is not intimidating to me because that was my life before Jimmy was alone.

And that my parents were wonderful and we they engage with me a lot, but I did a lot

on my own comfortably.

So that's okay with me.

I love and I'm energized by people who come up with different ideas.

I love hearing your ideas, Eddie.

They're always unique and exciting.

And that energizes me when I can share with not just women, but men or teenagers

or my college age granddaughter ideas that people have and their different perspectives

are very interesting to me.

And oftentimes I think there are sometimes people are put in our past during the day,

be it someone you meet at the grocery store, the cleaners, everyone has an interesting

story to tell.

And sometimes I take them as tidbits from God, if you will, to kind of boost me that day

or help me along my journey.

Wow.

Yeah.

It kind of like kind of goes to my thought about sometimes I feel like life is a puzzle,

but I don't have all the pieces.

And so listening to what you're saying is kind of like if each person puts a piece into

the puzzle, the picture becomes more clear.

Yes.

Because sometimes I think about, you know, I can say the loss of not just, you know, my

husband, but my brother, my mother, my father.

I know it really would, my aunts did not like it when I'd say I was a, you know, I was

an orphan and they would say, you're not an orphan.

You were an adult when your parents died and your brother, but it feels like that sometimes.

But then I turn around and I think, okay, but I'm still here now what?

Yes.

And that's the big question.

I think we'd like to share with everyone during our podcast is now what?

Who are we now?

Where do we go?

Where do we begin?

And to the puzzle pieces, Eddie, what I've discovered and Jimmy's past six years ago is

that we try things and we hope they'll fit.

But it's okay if they don't.

And that was a real lesson for me because I'm always trying to make it fit.

If I turn it this way, I turn it that way or I accept this or that.

But sometimes I think what we need to understand and it's been really freeing for me at this

age is that I don't have to make it fit.

If it doesn't fit, you put it back in the pile.

Wow.

Well, do you think that kind of goes for people too?

Because what?

Yes.

Absolutely.

I mean, I'm finding some people that I may be liked and had a lot of confidence in at

one point in my life.

I kind of don't feel that way anymore.

And I'm not sure about putting them back in the pile.

And I know maybe that's a little bit selfish because I might need them later for something

else, but I can't imagine what.

But I'm just kind of thinking that sometimes life moves on.

And I always did think this even with marriage and partnerships and girlfriends and

guy friends and just job friends on the, you know, I've had best friends on the job.

And then after you retire, you don't, you never see them again.

And don't hear from maybe a Christmas time, maybe every now and then.

But that people either grow together or they grow apart.

Yes.

But is growing apart a bad thing or is it just setting you on a journey to find another

part of you that you can nurture through a different, you know, through different means.

And you know, like leaving a job that I mean, how do we, I never thought that I was so

defined by my job.

I, in fact, we totally rejected that idea until I found myself retired and still reaching

back and trying to, you know, keep some of those friendships and all and in realizing

that while some of those people were still working, their life was still tied to the job.

And mine wasn't.

So I didn't really have that much to contribute.

So again, using that as an, as sort of a transitioning point of getting out of one relationship

and yet and still not limiting yourself to being strictly defined by it anymore because

it's not necessarily relevant to your life and going on and finding a new part of you that

will kind of like help you go, you know, kind of dance through life.

Correct.

Right.

It was always, I always felt guilty about saying goodbye to, like you said, a job, a situation,

a friendship or whatever.

What I've learned is it's okay.

It's part of the process too.

And it's not a bad thing.

It's a growth thing.

And so you're just growing and going down a different path.

So now I can actually visualize myself waving goodbye and not with anger or guilt or any

of those negative feelings, but just goodbye.

And thank you for the experiences that I had with you that allowed me to move on.

And so that kind of helps me.

Wow.

That's really beautiful because the people that I've kind of had to say goodbye to, I've

kind of had to be very blunt about it.

And even though I try to be nice or, or I'm not nice because I don't know.

I don't even know if I see myself as a nice person.

I see myself as a good person.

I see myself as a realistic person.

And because of those things, it does not always leave room for nice.

When I say that, what I mean is that I can be brutally frank.

And that leaves the idea nice behind.

So I really had to say to a friend that I've had, I have for almost like, or really almost

over 40 years, I just don't want to talk to you anymore.

So please stop calling me because I feel like I've moved on and you've moved on.

And I don't want this to be meanhearted because I know that in the future we'll run into

each other again.

And I want to be able to embrace and hold each other and smile at each other.

But in the meantime, I don't want to be friends anymore.

And she kind of told people I was a mean girl, which really made me laugh because I thought,

well, yeah, I probably am.

But yeah, but it is.

But so putting it in the context that you put it in, like being able to stand and picture

myself waving goodbye and then moving on and seeing it as an adventure, I think that makes

me feel better, Tony.

So I'm glad you added that to our conversation.

Okay, but I'm telling you that what I do in my mind, now if you really want me to be

honest with you and our audience, what I did in reality, and I have the reputation of

being polyanna or the two nice girl.

I simply learned on my iPhone from my granddaughter that you can block someone so that they can't

reach you.

And so I didn't have that conversation you did.

That was very mature of you.

I believe that within all of us, even at 72 years old, within all of us, I think we still

are every age we ever were.

So I reverted to two for that particular instance.

And I accept that because there is a two year old that's alive and well in me.

And I pressed block and that was it.

So that wasn't very mature.

It was two.

But hey, well, that's really interesting because I know I was talking about this actually

with my daughters.

And they were saying, Mom, does you know a certain friend of ours, you know, had blocked

us all?

I was like, really?

Why did they block me?

I didn't have anything to do with it.

And they said, well, I don't know.

I think we just blocked the family.

And I was like, well, how come I didn't know?

And I said, wouldn't this happen?

They said three years ago.

And I said, oh, well, I guess either I haven't called them in three years or I don't

really care.

Right?

Right, right, right.

I mean, so I think that's hilarious.

But I think blocking someone is going through an emotional experience that requires you to

act mean without boldly embracing being mean.

And it's kind of a passive way of doing it.

Whereas I know me.

You know, me saying it's like throwing a rock from behind the bush.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I think rock is stand up and unfortunately get knocked in the head with their counter

block and wind up being laid out flat.

So I, you know, I don't, yeah.

So that's kind of interesting.

It would never occur to me to block someone without just telling them, I've moved on.

Nope.

Don't need to.

You'll know.

You'll finally get it.

And that's it.

Done.

That's over.

It's very rare that I have ever done that in my life.

Maybe I would say two times.

But at that point, there is no other step to make for me.

So I'm done.

And that's like again, it's not mature.

And I don't advise anyone to do it.

It's not the way to handle relationships.

It just is what it is.

Well, that on that one, I really would like to hear from our audience about things that

they've done and how they've resolved those situations.

Because I actually think that maybe it's more mature than the way I do it.

Because I'm kind of like the kindergartener that goes, nan, nan, nan, you know what?

You want to see the reaction when you've done it.

I think so.

I think so.

And I kind of like really feel proud of myself when I do it.

So I, yeah, that might be yet.

I'm digging what you said about going back to one of these ages that I had been before.

And I know at two, three, four, five, ten, I could not have done that.

I kind of took it in.

And I know it's hard for people to believe, but I was actually a shy child until I wasn't.

And that was in probably eighth grade when a bunch of girls made up some stuff and they

all jumped on me.

And I had to fight them.

And so I did what I did what my brother had told me.

He says, well, you know, if you can't punch them, he said, you got to leave your mark.

If you're in a fight, it's got to look like you won.

So just dig in and gouge out their hair, their face, leave scratches on them and stuff like

that.

And so I think I've carried that in my life.

I like to see you bleed a little bit.

I don't even want to see you bleed.

I know.

So heavy.

Let me ask you because we're talking about when relationships have ended with people and

not so nice away.

How did you feel with Jimmy?

And I'll also tell how I felt with my Jimmy.

Did you feel like he left you?

Yeah, as a matter of fact, I told some people that he just up and died on me and it wasn't

right.

And my one friend, butch, is a guy.

This is a guy.

He, butch Pierre, he looked at me and he said, he didn't, you know, he looked at me like

I was crazy.

He's like, he didn't choose that.

He didn't just leave you.

And I said, yeah, but he did because that wasn't the deal.

So I mean to answer how did I feel, I felt pretty angry actually, not just with all the

people that I felt like and accused of contributing to his death as a black man.

No, I just met with Jimmy himself.

Yeah, but also with him.

Yeah, because I felt like he, you know, when I looked back on it, he was trying to say

to me, I'm trying to leave.

And you know, I wasn't trying to hear any of that stuff.

So yeah, I was angry at him.

Yeah.

And my Jimmy had been bedridden for 16 years and really had had not such a great quality

of life, but I still, and we had a long talk before he died and I just really needed to

tell him because he was very much a protector of me.

And I just needed to tell them that he didn't need to stay in that condition for me, that

it was okay that I knew he had to go and it was okay with me.

And I wanted him to know that I would take care of the kids, the grandkids, everything.

And it was, it was great.

Now that's what I verbalized, but in my mind, I was not very happy with that decision.

And I wasn't necessarily, I was angry with Jimmy and to be quite honest, I was, everyone

said, well, it wouldn't is your time.

My mother always told me, when is your time?

It's your time.

And when God calls you, there's nothing you can do.

You answer that call.

And that is what we are to do.

And I thought, okay, I get all that.

I understand all that.

But still, why didn't you tell God that you couldn't go right now?

So God, because I can't leave this crazy woman down here.

Well, she know what to do.

Well, she'll say that she does, but well, she really know what to do.

So I was kind of mad at him for like, you should have wouldn't thought that decision and

say, God, I need a few more years, because I had to make sure that this crazy lady is

okay.

Wow.

You know what, see, I agree with that because I, first of all, I hate that.

That thing about you go, everybody goes and God's time, you know, God, you know, you

got to date and the number and all that.

That I think that's BS.

I think that's to make the person who accepts that feel, feel better about the potentiality

of fate.

But what I, what I really think is that people can hurry your death or your demise.

I think you can hurry your own.

I think that people make choices every day and people sometimes decide not to fight anymore

or the opportunity to fight is snatched away from them.

So I'm not always sure that it's God's will or man's will.

And that's a, that's a discussion that will never be settled because I know people will

not agree with me, but I am steadfast on my feet that I will not agree with you.

I definitely know.

And that's where you and I are really the opposite ends on that.

Yeah.

And that's great.

I know, I know.

It's funny because you know, unlike you, Jimmy had been very healthy, walking.

I mean, this man was like walking in the forest in the wintertime with boots on and

carrying weights and all this stuff and coming home, sweat all over his body.

And you know, and somebody made a decision that wasn't cool.

And then they didn't follow up and it was a doctor.

And you know, and, and, and, and then they didn't listen.

And the more I hear this, I was listening to something yesterday where I guess a woman

has written this book about how a doctor has written a book about how people don't listen

to black people when they complain.

Yes.

And I think that's what happened with him.

And that's how it that is to demise.

But at any rate, no, I don't accept that, that, that, that, that, that construct or whatever

that people, you know, have a time at an expiration date.

I do not.

Mm hmm.

And see that, that, that is what gives me comfort.

So yeah, that's, that's, that's, yeah, that's it.

So who are we, Eddie?

Where we go from here?

Way, no.

I'm like a shiny penny.

And I ain't worth much, but I sure look good.

So I'm still here.

And I guess the question is, now what?

Yeah.

And that's, that's really been an actually, I kind of like the answer of, I don't know,

depends on what I feel like doing today.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

I never lived on my own before.

And I've never had my own plays, paid my own bills, never did any of that until six years

ago.

And so it's, at first I felt like my body had been dismembered, if you will, like I could

visually see my arm over here and other arm over here.

Like, I couldn't stand up.

I couldn't even put the pieces of myself back together initially.

So I was like a baby having to learn all those things at 66 that I should have had practice

with all of my life.

But I did learn slowly but surely the arm reattached each one and the legs and finally

I was able to stand and get to moving.

And even now, Eddie, as you said earlier in the podcast, dancing again.

So I feel free now with I, even something simple as we went to the show the other day.

And you said the night before, hey, let's go get food afterwards and maybe some drinks

and just hang out with all the people going.

And it was like, yeah, and it doesn't matter.

I can just do, go, be whatever I travel a lot now.

I love that.

I just feel free in a sense.

And then sometimes at old school should be doing something important comes up in my

mom.

Yeah.

Like, my mother was very organized.

She was a corporate woman, very organized, very efficient.

Everything was perfect.

And so I could get that in my head sometime like, girl, did you see that office?

You need to go in there and clean those bookshelves.

And I'm like, no, but I'm going to make it.

So I feel free that way.

Yes.

And you know what?

The one thing I want to do, and now I hope that we're able to accomplish and to get people

to do right along with us, I just want to think about, I want to be the cupcake in my

own life.

You know, I want to be both decadent, sinful, but tasty.

I love that.

And on that, I say, we say until next time.

Until next time to your friend.

Yeah.

With letter and tales from the time solubo, they share the stories.

Get untold.

Oh.

Two deaths and widows in the past of life's embrace, finding rhythm after loss in time

and space.

With every step, a new story unfolds in that journey.

A view you like this told is told.