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Kathryn and Will chat with former client Rachel Murray, the Co-CEO at She+ Geeks Out, to talk to us about how they utilize the medium of animation in different ways within their organization, how D.E.I. is changing, and how to best use long form and short form content.
She+ Geeks Out offers a variety of services to support you in your journey to abolish inequity at work, whether it's through our training and consulting or through public programs. Learn more at https://www.shegeeksout.com/
If you have a topic or question you’d like us to cover, you can submit it to http://www.openpixelstudios.com/podquestion
She+ Geeks Out offers a variety of services to support you in your journey to abolish inequity at work, whether it's through our training and consulting or through public programs. Learn more at https://www.shegeeksout.com/
If you have a topic or question you’d like us to cover, you can submit it to http://www.openpixelstudios.com/podquestion
Learn more about this podcast here: https://www.openpixelstudios.com/behindthepixel
EMedia produces the podcast in Easthampton, MA.
Produced by Jackson Foote and Will Colón
Written and Created by:
Will Colón: https://www.linkedin.com/in/willmcolon/
Kathryn Taccone: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathryntaccone/
Creators and Guests
What is Behind The Pixel: Closing The Animation Communication Gap?
This podcast helps bridge the knowledge gaps between marketing and creative teams. Episodes explore how to communicate creatively, production hacks that save time, and unique solutions to ongoing creative problems.
Open Pixel Studios is a women-owned (WBENC) certified animation studio in Massachusetts that creates custom animated marketing content.
Hosts Will Colón and Kathryn Taccone are co-founders of Open Pixel Studios with years of industry experience in sales, marketing, animation, design, and education.
Submit a question to the pod! -> openpixelstudios.com/podquestion
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I have a a tissue issue.
00;00;03;20 - 00;00;04;26
A tissue issue?
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You know, that was one of our bad ideas a long time ago.
00;00;07;16 - 00;00;10;03
I think we shared it. The tissue issue?
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I think so.
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That was the the finding...
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tissues in the...
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I mean... scanning for tissues
in your smart washing machine.
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Yeah, it's a terrible name, but the idea is interesting because...
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Because I think our devices
are getting smarter,
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you know, and now with A.I.
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I think you could probably do this pretty easily.
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Uh, scan your clothes and find things in it that shouldn't be there, like tissues.
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The amount of things
that I don't need to have
00;00;39;13 - 00;00;42;17
more technology put into
it is insurmountable.
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Like I don't need it.
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I'm sure other people can agree
and other people are like, you know what?
00;00;48;13 - 00;00;52;20
No, embrace it, like technology and wifi in washers everywhere.
00;00;52;25 - 00;00;54;21
Yeah, it just. Yeah.
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Total side tangent. Hello! Hello.
00;00;56;27 - 00;00;58;01
How are you?
00;00;58;01 - 00;01;02;26
I'm good. How are you? I'm good. I think...
00;01;02;29 - 00;01;07;18
I would say I'm struggling with podcast scheduling.
00;01;07;20 - 00;01;10;06
Yes, we're doing our best.
00;01;10;06 - 00;01;11;00
We're doing our best.
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We’re actually recording this a couple of weeks.
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I think after our
original interview. I think weeks.
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We we had for some transparency,
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We recorded a wonderful podcast, which we'll talk about in a moment,
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And then completely forgot
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or ran out of time to record the intro
that we usually do right here.
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And so then it got put to the wayside
with all the projects that we had.
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So here we are,
we're in a totally different location
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we’re in different clothes.
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The video's going to look really different.
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Um, but it's... I am still very delighted
to talk about this conversation
00;01;46;01 - 00;01;49;25
that we had and get it out
because it was so good and so informative.
00;01;49;25 - 00;01;52;12
And so let's, let's get into it.
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So we sat down with Rachel Murray,
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She is the co-CEO of She+ Geeks Out
or She Plus
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Geeks out, as you'll see
it, written in a lot of places.
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And she's been running the business
for about ten years now.
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A little over ten years.
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They just celebrated ten years last year.
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And in 2023, which is wonderful.
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And they are in the space
of abolishing inequity in the workplace.
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So she does a lot of work
on, like many CEOs,
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she's wearing many different hats
working on, you know, H.R.
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and tech and finance and operations
and everything in between.
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I think her I think her title was Chief Everything Else Officer, which is pretty good.
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It's very good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So, so she does a lot of really
incredible work and is just...
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the company is very mindful and very like we just...
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we align with their values a lot in terms
of how they're approaching things
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and thinking about the world
and how to make better workplaces.
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And so without spoiling anything, we,
I think we should just get right into it.
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But it was a delight, delight
to talk to her.
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We had a lot of fun and I think we have
taken away a lot from our conversation.
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So we hope you do too.
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Yeah. So let's jump into it.
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Let's do it.
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Rachel, thank you so much for taking the time
to be on the podcast. We're so, so happy to talk to you.
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I think you and I have had many conversations over the years
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and just have dived
a lot into different topics.
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So I want to make sure that we have time
first for our audience who
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might not know who you are and what you do
and what She+ Geeks Out is all about.
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Can you kind of give us a rough overview
to start of, you know, how you got started
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and how She+ Geeks Out
has been successfully doing
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amazing work for the last ten years.
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Oh, you're so kind.
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Well, thank you both for having me.
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It's a it's a pleasure.
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Yeah, I'm happy to share.
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So, yeah, I'm the co-founder and co-CEO of a company called She+ Geeks Out.
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And I also like to explain, you know,
our name is pretty unique.
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So we actually started out as a women
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in tech group in the Boston area
and this was in 2013.
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We actually had our first event,
so a little over a year ago
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where my business partner and I now
business partner and I that's how we met
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and I kind of call myself the Chief Everything Else Officer a little bit. Cause I do a lot of
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Different things I you to do, like,
you know, tech, finance, H.R.
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sales, marketing.
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That's me and my side of my amazing
business partner, Felicia,
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She runs all the DEI training and consulting because in 2017,
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we started adding the DEI training
and consulting to our work.
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And for those who aren't familiar
with the acronym, I don't want to presume
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that means diversity,
equity and inclusion,
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where we teach about unconscious bias,
microaggressions, allyship, identity,
00;05;02;21 - 00;05;06;24
intersectionality, how that all shows up,
particularly in the workplace.
00;05;06;27 - 00;05;08;27
And so that's what
my lovely business partner does.
00;05;08;27 - 00;05;12;23
And so when we started out in 2013,
00;05;12;25 - 00;05;15;24
we were really focused on events
and we really shifted gears.
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Everything, as you I'm sure know, changed in 2020. Actually,
which is the year that we met. Yes.
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And so now the focus
is really pretty much solely
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on the DEI training and consulting side of things.
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So that's a little bit about us.
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Yeah, fully remote. It's a great time.
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Yes, we are big proponents of the only remote lifestyle.
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As you can see, we're in New Mexico today. So.
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It's wonderful.
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I'm okay. Well, Will, do you have a question?
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Because otherwise I'm going to jump
right in.
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So I’m trying to think of some of the work
we’ve done and DEI before
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that has been either animation work.
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So let me just give you a little rundown
of the background of the podcast.
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So the reason we've run the podcast in
the first place
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is to kind of try to teach people
before they get to our doors
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what to do, what not to do,
what to expect, that kind of thing.
00;06;02;26 - 00;06;07;16
But it's also on the side of communication
where we're talking about, you know,
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there's some topics
and yours is really particular
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that lend themselves to animation
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and how that sort of communication
that how we sort of work together.
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You've we've done a project for you
in the past.
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We've done a couple other ones that I
maybe you haven't seen around DEI
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Yeah.
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And I kind of wanted to get a sense
of like
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there's crucial communication
happening between your organization
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and do you have members or is it is
it just folks who sign up?
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Like, I want to kind of understand
a little bit of like how it works?
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How do you get your work done?
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Like paint us the Bob Ross picture right now.
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Where we get those happy little trees for you.
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Yeah.
00;06;47;17 - 00;06;49;07
Thank you for asking the question.
00;06;49;07 - 00;06;54;10
So so the way we typically work
is primarily it's corporate clients,
00;06;54;10 - 00;06;55;28
so they typically find us
00;06;55;28 - 00;06;59;21
through our website and they reach out
and they're interested
00;06;59;21 - 00;07;03;25
in bringing us into their organization
for training purposes.
00;07;03;27 - 00;07;07;09
And before the pandemic,
I would say about 90% of their training
00;07;07;09 - 00;07;08;19
was probably in person.
00;07;08;19 - 00;07;11;19
And I think that that has flipped
since then.
00;07;11;24 - 00;07;17;09
We're really fortunate in that a lot of
people found us pretty early on in 2017.
00;07;17;11 - 00;07;20;10
One of my prior my my prior life
00;07;20;10 - 00;07;23;19
before S+GO was in tech.
00;07;23;19 - 00;07;26;24
So building websites. Ao it's great to be able
00;07;26;24 - 00;07;30;04
to do that, to have that skill
when you are building a business.
00;07;30;06 - 00;07;34;29
And so, yeah, so we found that
when we first launched our training,
00;07;35;01 - 00;07;38;15
we wanted to be really intentional
about making sure that we were providing
00;07;38;15 - 00;07;42;02
thought leadership, that we were showing
that we knew we were talking about.
00;07;42;02 - 00;07;44;14
And so we wrote a lot of articles.
00;07;44;14 - 00;07;47;19
So I did a lot of the writing of the blog
posts. Felicia, she's
00;07;47;24 - 00;07;48;27
she's really the face.
00;07;48;27 - 00;07;53;03
So this is very is a very odd experience, me being the face of the voice.
00;07;53;05 - 00;07;55;08
But Felicia is typically the face of the voice.
00;07;55;08 - 00;07;57;06
So she would go out
and do speaking engagements
00;07;57;06 - 00;07;59;16
and I would be behind the screen
doing a lot of the writing.
00;07;59;16 - 00;08;01;26
And that's
how a lot of people would find us,
00;08;01;26 - 00;08;04;19
thank goodness, were really good
with search engine optimization.
00;08;04;19 - 00;08;06;20
So that's a blessing.
00;08;06;20 - 00;08;10;27
So we we actually did attempt a few times
to create community.
00;08;10;28 - 00;08;12;18
We have had webinars
00;08;12;18 - 00;08;17;00
that certainly bring people together
as well as virtual meet ups.
00;08;17;02 - 00;08;19;01
We have our podcast that I think
00;08;19;01 - 00;08;21;21
it's not really community,
but it's certainly listeners.
00;08;21;21 - 00;08;24;29
We have our newsletter
where we have people experiencing us
00;08;25;04 - 00;08;29;02
and that way and it's wonderful
and people reach out and respond.
00;08;29;04 - 00;08;32;29
We did try a community last year.
00;08;32;29 - 00;08;37;03
What is time? Really tricky to get people
to talk about it and happy
00;08;37;03 - 00;08;40;23
to dive more into sort of my philosophy,
sort of
00;08;40;26 - 00;08;44;22
where the space is right now,
because I think it's certainly evolving.
00;08;44;24 - 00;08;48;16
But you didn't really sort of
have a lot of conversation.
00;08;48;16 - 00;08;50;10
So we're like, okay, we get it.
00;08;50;10 - 00;08;51;21
People are tired.
00;08;51;21 - 00;08;54;05
So now we have a new community
actually that we just launched,
00;08;54;05 - 00;08;56;14
which is really focused
on online learning.
00;08;56;14 - 00;09;00;18
So it's us really just
providing resources to folks.
00;09;00;20 - 00;09;02;27
So that's different
ways that people can engage with us.
00;09;02;27 - 00;09;05;11
Yeah, Yeah, that's wonderful.
00;09;05;11 - 00;09;08;21
I'm I'm curious about
you have kind of a couple different
00;09;08;22 - 00;09;10;11
audiences that I'm hearing here.
00;09;10;11 - 00;09;14;19
And in each of those,
I imagine that they have, especially
00;09;14;19 - 00;09;19;22
with such a deep and purposeful subject
like DEI,
00;09;19;24 - 00;09;23;11
I'm curious about the communication
challenges that happen there, like
00;09;23;18 - 00;09;28;23
do you find that there's more resistance
to teaching in some way or another, or
00;09;29;00 - 00;09;32;15
where do you find sort of those
communication successes that are like
00;09;32;15 - 00;09;35;25
this opens the door to a whole new realm
that people are excited about,
00;09;35;25 - 00;09;39;07
and then the opposite side of like
we're trying to communicate,
00;09;39;07 - 00;09;42;25
but also we can see the defensiveness
or the like, the,
00;09;42;28 - 00;09;46;24
the freak out of like, Oh, I don't know
if we're ready to talk about this yet.
00;09;46;24 - 00;09;48;25
Where do you find those challenges?
Come in.
00;09;48;25 - 00;09;50;14
Yeah, that's a great question.
00;09;50;14 - 00;09;54;06
So I think the way we like to approach
the work is
00;09;54;09 - 00;09;58;01
understanding that everybody's
coming into this from different
00;09;58;04 - 00;10;02;00
experiences, different lived experiences,
different understandings.
00;10;02;03 - 00;10;06;09
And so when we come into this space,
we honor that.
00;10;06;09 - 00;10;09;17
So understanding
folks have deep lived experiences.
00;10;09;17 - 00;10;12;27
Other folks are
maybe really curious about it.
00;10;13;00 - 00;10;15;14
And then to be perfectly frank,
they're going to be other people
00;10;15;14 - 00;10;18;05
that are like, I don't know why
I'm doing this, Why does it even matter?
00;10;18;05 - 00;10;22;01
I just want to get my job done and like
then go back and hang out with my kids.
00;10;22;01 - 00;10;23;04
You know?
00;10;23;04 - 00;10;26;23
So an understanding that I think, yeah,
you do absolutely meet resistance.
00;10;26;23 - 00;10;30;23
And there's a couple of ways
that we talk about approaching this.
00;10;30;23 - 00;10;32;21
First of all, being honest right?
00;10;32;21 - 00;10;37;03
This is this space that we're living in. An understanding for...
00;10;37;04 - 00;10;42;11
If it's so, if it's not a mandatory training, you'll usually get people who are
00;10;42;14 - 00;10;43;08
curious and
00;10;43;08 - 00;10;46;11
ready to go for the trainings
that maybe are mandatory.
00;10;46;11 - 00;10;49;17
That's when you sort of meet,
I think, a little bit more resistance.
00;10;49;19 - 00;10;51;04
And when that happens, you know, we
00;10;51;04 - 00;10;54;28
we do use a couple of visuals
around talking through some of this.
00;10;54;28 - 00;10;57;28
So one is a visual that we use
in the beginning
00;10;58;03 - 00;11;01;05
of our workshops typically,
00;11;01;08 - 00;11;03;28
which is if you can envision
three circles, a small circle,
00;11;03;28 - 00;11;08;03
which is your comfort zone,
a larger circle, which is your
00;11;08;04 - 00;11;11;21
learning zone, and then a larger circle,
which is your panic zone.
00;11;11;23 - 00;11;14;23
We talk through that and we say, folks,
you know,
00;11;15;00 - 00;11;18;00
if you stay in your comfort zone,
you're not going to really learn anything.
00;11;18;06 - 00;11;20;29
If you get that panic zone, you're
definitely not going to learn anything
00;11;20;29 - 00;11;23;19
because your brain's going to shut down
and not be interested.
00;11;23;19 - 00;11;30;10
So we want to keep folks focused on that learning zone or that learning edge
So that's one way that we do it.
00;11;30;10 - 00;11;35;11
And then of course, as our facilitators go through the workshop,
00;11;35;11 - 00;11;36;19
there are going to be moments
00;11;36;19 - 00;11;40;20
of discomfort, which we also acknowledge
upfront that that can happen.
00;11;40;20 - 00;11;41;16
And, and,
00;11;41;16 - 00;11;45;12
and we do refer to the pause framework,
which is what we actually worked with
00;11;45;12 - 00;11;49;26
you on as a way to address
some of that resistance
00;11;49;26 - 00;11;53;17
that can come up for really anyone,
whether you're curious or not.
00;11;53;17 - 00;11;55;24
You know, it's, it's,
it's, it's a tough subject.
00;11;55;24 - 00;11;57;07
Yeah, definitely.
00;11;57;07 - 00;11;57;16
Yeah.
00;11;57;16 - 00;11;59;05
Do you feel like, sorry, do you feel like
00;11;59;05 - 00;12;01;13
most of the people you're working with
are like
00;12;01;13 - 00;12;03;16
right on the edge of that panic zone?
00;12;03;16 - 00;12;08;23
Because I feel like everyone's
anxiety is like turned up to 20 right now.
00;12;08;25 - 00;12;10;28
What are you talking about, Will?
00;12;11;10 - 00;12;13;11
There's no mental health crisis in this country.
00;12;13;11 - 00;12;16;11
I never heard of it.
00;12;16;18 - 00;12;17;16
Yeah.
00;12;17;16 - 00;12;21;23
You know, I think that it is really
it is a challenge.
00;12;21;23 - 00;12;24;00
I think that there are a lot of people
who are struggling with it.
00;12;24;00 - 00;12;27;04
And I think workplace dynamics
00;12;27;04 - 00;12;32;21
in general outside of DEI,
I think are just they're in a new
00;12;32;24 - 00;12;36;03
we're just we're just entering
this completely new phase.
00;12;36;03 - 00;12;37;24
I think COVID set it off.
00;12;37;24 - 00;12;41;02
It's probably been boiling
under the surface for a while,
00;12;41;09 - 00;12;44;09
but it's all sort of coming out
and coming to a head
00;12;44;15 - 00;12;47;15
where there is just a lot of lack of trust
00;12;47;20 - 00;12;55;00
and a lot of sort of this understanding of,
you know, I think for a lot of employees,
00;12;55;00 - 00;12;59;11
it used to be, oh, we're really committed
to this company, We're really invested.
00;12;59;11 - 00;13;02;13
We we believe in what we're doing
or what we're building,
00;13;02;15 - 00;13;06;27
to this sort of shift of,
you know, sort of goods for services now.
00;13;07;00 - 00;13;10;07
And I think what that does
is it creates when we are going in
00;13;10;07 - 00;13;13;24
and having these workshops
and having these discussions,
00;13;13;27 - 00;13;15;20
I think they can that can bubble up.
00;13;15;20 - 00;13;17;25
And I think it does.
00;13;17;27 - 00;13;18;12
It does.
00;13;18;12 - 00;13;22;00
Maybe, you know,
our facilitators are incredibly skilled
00;13;22;00 - 00;13;24;01
and I'm not a facilitator,
00;13;24;01 - 00;13;27;23
so I just give them so much credit
for the beautiful work that they do
00;13;27;25 - 00;13;30;25
in really managing that
00;13;30;27 - 00;13;33;27
line to really help people stay
00;13;33;27 - 00;13;38;17
in that learning zone as much
as possible and not be in that panic zone.
00;13;38;17 - 00;13;43;25
And if they are to the very best to find
a way to regulate so they can come back.
00;13;43;27 - 00;13;44;28
No, that's a great point.
00;13;44;28 - 00;13;49;09
The reason I bring it up, I mean, yeah,
obviously because the world is crazy,
00;13;49;11 - 00;13;53;22
but I do find that sometimes
with a new kind of tool, communication
00;13;53;22 - 00;13;54;23
tool, medium,
00;13;54;23 - 00;13;57;19
something that you've never really done
before, we come across
00;13;57;19 - 00;14;02;04
that a lot in animation, when we're talking
to folks like you who kind of,
00;14;02;06 - 00;14;05;15
you know, might be afraid of something
or don't know if it's actually going
00;14;05;15 - 00;14;08;16
to work or something like that,
They also tend to be like
00;14;08;21 - 00;14;09;24
on the edge of that panic.
00;14;09;24 - 00;14;12;29
So I just want to just like,
okay, how do you bring it back, how do you reel them down
00;14;13;02 - 00;14;15;10
from like, this is not going work, right?
00;14;15;10 - 00;14;17;15
It's building trust and community and...
00;14;17;15 - 00;14;18;22
Oh, go ahead. Yeah.
00;14;18;22 - 00;14;21;00
No, I agree with you, Kathryn.
That was perfect.
00;14;21;00 - 00;14;22;27
I, I think that's absolutely right.
00;14;22;27 - 00;14;26;24
Building trust, showing data,
I think also helps a lot.
00;14;26;24 - 00;14;29;27
And I know that that's probably
something that you both do as well
00;14;30;02 - 00;14;33;20
is is proving the value. You know why...
00;14;33;22 - 00;14;39;13
people's are nervous to spend their time
and money on on a lot of things.
00;14;39;13 - 00;14;42;13
And so how do you show that it's valuable
and how do you trust that
00;14;42;13 - 00;14;46;20
that is going to be a not only
a good product that you're creating,
00;14;46;22 - 00;14;50;16
but also a good working relationship,
which I don't think gets valued enough?
00;14;50;19 - 00;14;50;27
Right?
00;14;50;27 - 00;14;54;29
As a one of the things I love about you
is that it's always been a pleasure
00;14;54;29 - 00;14;57;03
working with you. So yeah, we've.
00;14;57;03 - 00;15;00;05
Always talked about this idea
of like wanting to build
00;15;00;06 - 00;15;04;07
partnerships and relationships
that never feel like just transactional.
00;15;04;07 - 00;15;05;17
Yes! Because there's there's
00;15;05;17 - 00;15;08;23
so much of that in the world
that we do on a day to day basis.
00;15;08;23 - 00;15;09;09
You know, I'm
00;15;09;09 - 00;15;13;06
sure I'm sure hundreds of thousands of
people are shopping on Amazon right now.
00;15;13;08 - 00;15;14;06
So yeah.
00;15;14;06 - 00;15;19;20
But there's there's something so much more
purposeful and meaningful and like,
00;15;19;22 - 00;15;24;10
so people who are excited to embrace that,
that idea...
00;15;24;12 - 00;15;25;27
like we're all for we're like,
00;15;25;27 - 00;15;29;08
yes, let's get into the weeds of this
because it's it's a beautiful thing.
00;15;29;10 - 00;15;33;01
I'm curious because you
you kind of touched on this idea of,
00;15;33;01 - 00;15;35;07
you know, in a lot of the work
that you're doing,
00;15;35;07 - 00;15;40;10
you're kind of in this like mixed toolset
in terms of communication, of trying
00;15;40;10 - 00;15;44;05
to get different ideas
across, trying to, to your point, have
00;15;44;12 - 00;15;47;10
like visual references
that are almost like you're
00;15;47;10 - 00;15;50;29
sort of like a guiding light for everyone
to be like, this is, you know,
00;15;50;29 - 00;15;53;12
you can always refer back to this
in some way.
00;15;53;12 - 00;15;55;21
So I'm kind of curious how,
00;15;55;21 - 00;15;59;16
how do you even decide
which tool to use in certain moments?
00;15;59;16 - 00;16;03;12
And even the idea of like
when you were at the time deciding to use
00;16;03;12 - 00;16;05;20
animation, like how did how did those come about?
00;16;05;20 - 00;16;09;10
Like, how do you make those choices,
especially for a topic like this?
00;16;09;16 - 00;16;11;04
That's such a great question.
00;16;11;04 - 00;16;16;21
And I will defer to my facilitation team
to to to get into the specifics
00;16;16;21 - 00;16;21;26
about communication in those workshops,
which is,
00;16;21;28 - 00;16;24;18
you know,
I think I’ll just say one thing is different
00;16;24;18 - 00;16;27;18
learning styles is of course, a key
00;16;27;19 - 00;16;31;24
component to to understanding
how to communicate because everyone
00;16;31;24 - 00;16;36;02
does have different ways of of processing,
as you both obviously know.
00;16;36;05 - 00;16;37;17
So that that's one aspect
00;16;37;17 - 00;16;41;18
that I'll sort of put over here
because that's not my area of expertise,
00;16;41;21 - 00;16;46;05
but I can share a little bit about
so the broader audience.
00;16;46;05 - 00;16;51;16
So, you know, we do a lot in communicating
via a lot of different media.
00;16;51;22 - 00;16;55;15
So whether that is
we have a podcast as well.
00;16;55;15 - 00;16;59;09
So there's the audio,
there is our blog post.
00;16;59;10 - 00;17;02;11
So we want to make sure
that we have a lot of written content.
00;17;02;15 - 00;17;04;21
We we also use YouTube for it.
00;17;04;21 - 00;17;08;11
We have quick little Ask S+GO videos
to get information out.
00;17;08;14 - 00;17;10;19
We have long form courses.
00;17;10;19 - 00;17;12;26
How we make those choices.
00;17;12;26 - 00;17;16;24
It really depends on what
we're trying to deliver.
00;17;16;26 - 00;17;20;07
So long form
versus short form content, right there
00;17;20;07 - 00;17;23;07
is... how are you going to decide what to do?
00;17;23;14 - 00;17;25;04
Understanding
that there are going to be people
00;17;25;04 - 00;17;28;22
who are going to want that information
differently
00;17;28;24 - 00;17;31;19
with DEI in particular, it's...
00;17;31;19 - 00;17;36;16
it's certainly not impossible,
but it is certainly more challenging
00;17;36;18 - 00;17;41;23
to create short form content communication
because a lot of the comments...
00;17;41;25 - 00;17;44;24
a lot of the learnings are complicated
00;17;44;24 - 00;17;47;24
or they just require
they're just more nuanced.
00;17;47;24 - 00;17;50;29
So a lot of times
they require a little bit more exposition
00;17;51;01 - 00;17;56;25
then a lot of what today's media really loves.
00;17;56;28 - 00;17;58;21
When we got to
00;17;58;21 - 00;18;02;29
deciding about the creating
an animation for the Pause framework.
00;18;02;29 - 00;18;06;27
So our director of training, Fatima Dainkeh,
who is absolutely incredible,
00;18;07;00 - 00;18;09;21
she developed this framework,
00;18;09;21 - 00;18;13;14
which is PAUSE,
which is a P-A-U-S-E, that I can... I'm happy
00;18;13;14 - 00;18;17;00
to explain what each of them means
if that's of interest.
00;18;17;03 - 00;18;22;06
But essentially it's a way for folks, it's
a framework for folks to literally pause
00;18;22;06 - 00;18;26;17
and take a minute when they're in moments
that feel particularly
00;18;26;17 - 00;18;31;16
fraught or stressful
that are around these topics of DEI.
00;18;31;18 - 00;18;33;21
Sure, we could have had it all written down.
00;18;33;21 - 00;18;36;06
We do. We have it in a text.
00;18;36;06 - 00;18;37;09
That's fine.
00;18;37;09 - 00;18;39;13
We could also have had a talking head.
00;18;39;13 - 00;18;43;15
We could have had Fatima just video
say what they mean.
00;18;43;18 - 00;18;46;05
But with these concepts, we really wanted
00;18;46;05 - 00;18;49;20
to push it a little bit
because we wanted it to tell a story.
00;18;49;22 - 00;18;53;01
And this is where I find
where animation comes in so handy.
00;18;53;01 - 00;18;55;08
And it's it's just done so beautifully.
00;18;55;08 - 00;18;59;28
Is that it can it can just take the viewer
00;19;00;02 - 00;19;04;10
deeper, I think, into the understanding
of what the
00;19;04;13 - 00;19;07;13
what the information is
that's trying to be delivered.
00;19;07;13 - 00;19;13;12
So that was how we decided
to do the pause framework as an animation.
00;19;13;14 - 00;19;15;03
Yeah, that's very cool.
00;19;15;03 - 00;19;15;14
Can I? Yeah.
00;19;15;14 - 00;19;18;20
Can I ask a, sorry, can I ask a offshoot question there?
00;19;18;22 - 00;19;19;07
Love it.
00;19;19;07 - 00;19;22;18
Do you ever like
how many metaphors are in there?
00;19;22;18 - 00;19;26;23
Like we've done a DEI
sort of training thing for someone else
00;19;26;23 - 00;19;31;06
and it was in the workplace
and a lot of the themes that we kept
00;19;31;06 - 00;19;33;23
hearing in the conversation was
we don't want to show people,
00;19;33;23 - 00;19;36;20
we don't want to show like,
we don't want to make it super personal
00;19;36;20 - 00;19;39;02
because, you know, everyone's
going to look at it differently.
00;19;39;02 - 00;19;42;06
So how can we show this like DEI thing
differently
00;19;42;06 - 00;19;46;01
in our solution to
that was making them pens and pencils.
00;19;46;03 - 00;19;50;24
So we were kind of talking about
like different writing styles in a way.
00;19;50;25 - 00;19;54;05
Like there are different ways
to approach that.
00;19;54;05 - 00;19;57;28
So have do you find yourself
using metaphors more
00;19;57;28 - 00;20;01;09
and more in these trainings,
or is that not something that happens?
00;20;01;12 - 00;20;02;25
Or do you get right into it?
00;20;02;25 - 00;20;04;23
You're like, Nope, this like is
00;20;04;23 - 00;20;08;19
if I feel like on the flip side of that,
like there's times where it probably calls
00;20;08;19 - 00;20;13;12
for being super direct and literal
just because of the subject matter.
00;20;13;12 - 00;20;17;12
So I'm imagining there's probably like
a place and time for each of those things.
00;20;17;17 - 00;20;18;13
Exactly.
00;20;18;13 - 00;20;18;27
Yeah.
00;20;18;27 - 00;20;22;08
And I would say it is true
if we are talking about something,
00;20;22;08 - 00;20;25;24
...something
particularly tied to an identity.
00;20;25;26 - 00;20;29;01
We would want to be specific about that,
I think.
00;20;29;08 - 00;20;34;04
But you know,
when when we do use imagery, illustrations,
00;20;34;06 - 00;20;37;19
you know, they can be of people
that's usually like non-descript.
00;20;37;19 - 00;20;41;28
One of my favorite illustrations
is is actually a graphic
00;20;41;28 - 00;20;45;19
where it describes the difference
between equity and equality.
00;20;45;22 - 00;20;46;26
I don't know if you've ever seen it.
00;20;46;26 - 00;20;48;21
It's not the one with the baseball field.
00;20;48;21 - 00;20;50;12
That's not a good one to use.
00;20;50;12 - 00;20;54;19
Don't use that one. For the listeners, don’t use that one.
00;20;54;21 - 00;20;56;05
Is not a good one.
00;20;56;05 - 00;20;59;26
But the one that I love is
if you can imagine at the top,
00;20;59;29 - 00;21;01;20
there's there's basically two panels.
00;21;01;20 - 00;21;07;24
The top panel is showing what
equality looks like and it has a bicycle.
00;21;07;24 - 00;21;11;17
Everyone's on a bicycle,
but there's a tall man,
00;21;11;18 - 00;21;15;11
there's a woman, there's
someone with a disability.
00;21;15;14 - 00;21;18;24
There is, I think, a little a child.
00;21;18;24 - 00;21;22;05
And they all have the same adult bike.
00;21;22;08 - 00;21;23;08
So that's equality.
00;21;23;08 - 00;21;25;06
Everyone's been given that bike.
00;21;25;06 - 00;21;27;24
Then on the bottom is equity.
00;21;27;24 - 00;21;32;13
So equity is the same people, but everyone
is given a bike that suits their needs.
00;21;32;13 - 00;21;36;06
So the child has a smaller bike,
the really tall person
00;21;36;06 - 00;21;40;01
has a bigger bike,
the disabled person has a recumbent bike.
00;21;40;04 - 00;21;43;04
And so they all
so that's really what equity is.
00;21;43;05 - 00;21;46;26
And I find that visual to be so powerful
00;21;46;29 - 00;21;49;14
that when as soon as someone sees it,
if they had
00;21;49;14 - 00;21;53;13
any sort of questions
around the difference between the two, it
00;21;53;13 - 00;21;57;04
instantly clears it up
because it's like, Oh, okay, I get it.
00;21;57;10 - 00;21;58;21
That is what equity is.
00;21;58;21 - 00;22;02;25
And then
and then it translates into everything
00;22;02;25 - 00;22;06;15
that we think about in the world,
whether that's in the workplace
00;22;06;18 - 00;22;12;13
or in literally,
you know, on the streets and in our world.
00;22;12;18 - 00;22;16;04
So I think it's a really powerful image.
00;22;16;06 - 00;22;17;09
That's really interesting.
00;22;17;09 - 00;22;17;14
Yeah.
00;22;17;14 - 00;22;18;27
I mean, well, also, you're very good
00;22;18;27 - 00;22;22;05
at just like describing the visual
as, oh, good.
00;22;22;07 - 00;22;23;01
Also. Yeah.
00;22;23;01 - 00;22;26;08
Which is also, I think a key component now
like especially nowadays
00;22;26;09 - 00;22;31;24
and in being mindful of accessibility
and to use descriptors and like words
00;22;31;24 - 00;22;35;10
are just as important as visuals
and finding the, you know, the balance
00;22;35;10 - 00;22;38;29
between the two is a beautiful thing
when it can when you can nail it.
00;22;39;02 - 00;22;40;04
That's a great point.
00;22;40;04 - 00;22;44;08
And I would imagine that that's harder
with animation
00;22;44;11 - 00;22;45;19
in the work that you do, right?
00;22;45;19 - 00;22;46;29
It's easy to describe a picture,
00;22;46;29 - 00;22;49;05
but you saw how long it took me
to describe a picture.
00;22;49;05 - 00;22;50;21
Imagine an animation.
00;22;50;21 - 00;22;51;17
That's it's always
00;22;51;17 - 00;22;55;03
one of the interesting things we find
is that whenever we're working with
00;22;55;03 - 00;22;59;14
like a script and someone comes to us,
they say, This is the idea we have.
00;22;59;14 - 00;23;01;04
This is the script we've written.
00;23;01;04 - 00;23;05;23
A lot of times our job is to kind of read
through the words really deliberately
00;23;05;23 - 00;23;09;20
to say, you know, a lot of this section
that you're going for here,
00;23;09;20 - 00;23;12;07
I totally understand
why you want to say it that way,
00;23;12;07 - 00;23;13;29
but you can just show it in a visual
00;23;13;29 - 00;23;16;26
and then you've eliminated
like some of the the language
00;23;16;26 - 00;23;18;18
in the script
or you've you've shortened the video
00;23;18;18 - 00;23;21;05
in some way or like
and sometimes it's a mix of both.
00;23;21;05 - 00;23;25;09
Sometimes we'll take the written words
and say, okay, well, this is so important.
00;23;25;09 - 00;23;28;09
We need to emphasize it again
through text on screen,
00;23;28;12 - 00;23;30;15
like so that you hear and visually see.
00;23;30;15 - 00;23;35;02
Because I think in a lot of times
you might come across this as well, where
00;23;35;05 - 00;23;38;11
you're finding a balance and like the
webinars and trainings that you're doing,
00;23;38;14 - 00;23;41;08
the balance between showing visuals
00;23;41;08 - 00;23;44;27
and lots of text while somebody's talking
00;23;44;29 - 00;23;47;17
and making sure that like, yes, no one's
00;23;47;17 - 00;23;51;17
spending too much time reading the text
and not hearing what you have to say.
00;23;51;17 - 00;23;54;17
So I imagine you're
you're experiencing that as well.
00;23;54;22 - 00;23;57;13
Exactly.
I mean, that's a huge, huge thing.
00;23;57;13 - 00;24;01;01
I mean, one thing that we talk a lot
about when when facilitating
00;24;01;01 - 00;24;04;18
really anything, but certainly this work
00;24;04;21 - 00;24;08;19
is it's really important to make sure
that you're not just, you know, a body
00;24;08;27 - 00;24;14;05
that's reading off of a slide like, oh,
my gosh, like I'm not interested, right?
00;24;14;05 - 00;24;15;12
Like,
00;24;15;14 - 00;24;17;07
so you want to keep it engaging.
00;24;17;07 - 00;24;21;15
You want to use different tools,
You want to have different visuals and
00;24;21;15 - 00;24;26;18
videos to keep focusing,
especially in the virtual world,
00;24;26;18 - 00;24;30;00
where if you're doing a virtual session,
I mean, my goodness, we're competing
00;24;30;00 - 00;24;34;26
with the world's
knowledge and information and inboxes.
00;24;35;02 - 00;24;37;07
So yeah, we get it.
00;24;37;07 - 00;24;40;03
We're going to keep them entertained. Yes.
00;24;40;03 - 00;24;40;12
You know.
00;24;40;12 - 00;24;43;13
That's because I was going to ask you
the sort of like side question, but
00;24;43;13 - 00;24;48;20
it's like,
how do you make DEI feel fun to learn? how.
00;24;48;22 - 00;24;50;17
Do you put it? I know I have one.
00;24;50;17 - 00;24;51;27
You put it in the metaverse.
00;24;51;27 - 00;24;54;16
Of course. A training you take through the metaverse.
00;24;54;16 - 00;24;58;12
Yeah, you're all in VR headsets in a virtual office.
00;24;58;15 - 00;25;00;02
So authentic, you know.
00;25;00;02 - 00;25;00;17
You know.
00;25;00;17 - 00;25;03;13
It's funny, you're laughing,
but there's actually
00;25;03;13 - 00;25;06;09
there's probably several companies
I know of, at least one
00;25;06;09 - 00;25;10;13
that and I will say back
and I think I was like 2019,
00;25;10;13 - 00;25;14;05
I actually turned to Felicia and I was like,
“Should we get into VR?”
00;25;14;08 - 00;25;18;00
Like,
I feel like this could be a thing because
00;25;18;02 - 00;25;21;16
if you want to get
that simulated experience.
00;25;21;16 - 00;25;21;28
Yeah.
00;25;21;28 - 00;25;25;00
So that's one of the things
about how to keep folks engaged.
00;25;25;02 - 00;25;28;16
Honestly,
it's making it as relevant to the work
00;25;28;22 - 00;25;31;19
that they the
what they are experiencing as possible.
00;25;31;19 - 00;25;34;07
So one thing that's important for us
is making sure
00;25;34;07 - 00;25;36;00
that we're not doing anything
cookie cutter.
00;25;36;00 - 00;25;40;29
So when we deliver a workshop,
there's always going to be some element
00;25;40;29 - 00;25;41;29
that's going to be relevant.
00;25;41;29 - 00;25;44;01
So we're industry agnostic.
00;25;44;01 - 00;25;46;27
So what that means is
we have a conversation with the companies
00;25;46;27 - 00;25;51;05
that we work with and then we learn
about what their needs are.
00;25;51;05 - 00;25;53;01
We learn a little bit about their industry
sometimes.
00;25;53;01 - 00;25;56;26
So one client we had a while
ago is Central Park Conservancy.
00;25;56;28 - 00;25;58;23
We had never worked with
00;25;58;23 - 00;26;02;14
a public parks system,
but they had unique challenges, right?
00;26;02;14 - 00;26;06;22
I mean, in DEI and it was really important
00;26;06;22 - 00;26;10;10
for us to make sure
that we were creating scenarios
00;26;10;12 - 00;26;14;19
that were specific to the parks
and they appreciated that.
00;26;14;19 - 00;26;20;01
And that's how they say, I think,
I don't know about fun, maybe fun?
00;26;20;03 - 00;26;22;13
Certainly engaged. Engaging.
00;26;22;13 - 00;26;23;27
Yeah, Yeah.
00;26;23;27 - 00;26;29;10
I think fun... Fun is such
an interesting word because.
00;26;29;13 - 00;26;30;02
Right.
00;26;30;02 - 00;26;32;03
Like how do you keep it?
00;26;32;03 - 00;26;34;00
How do you keep it fun?
00;26;34;00 - 00;26;38;09
I don't know that that's,
that's a realistic goal, but I do think.
00;26;38;12 - 00;26;41;03
That's probably fair.
Keeping engaged is definitely.
00;26;41;03 - 00;26;42;18
It's a it's a solid question, though.
00;26;42;18 - 00;26;45;29
And I'm like, how do we keep it fun.
00;26;46;02 - 00;26;46;28
...
00;26;46;28 - 00;26;49;07
Going back to this...
circling a little back to this
00;26;49;07 - 00;26;54;11
VR thing, there was a project
we did once that was like a training video
00;26;54;14 - 00;26;57;22
for like workplace safety in a warehouse.
00;26;57;28 - 00;27;00;05
And it was it was all through VR.
00;27;00;05 - 00;27;01;29
So that you were actually... that way.
00;27;01;29 - 00;27;02;29
They could like
00;27;02;29 - 00;27;07;15
they could recreate the environment
with animation so they could say like,
00;27;07;15 - 00;27;09;21
Oh, somebody is about to get hit
by a forklift.
00;27;09;21 - 00;27;11;00
What do you do in this moment?
00;27;11;00 - 00;27;12;15
And so you feel like you were there.
00;27;12;15 - 00;27;16;26
So it again, it's it's so interesting
that like sometimes we'll laugh about it,
00;27;16;26 - 00;27;21;25
but there are like very real practical
applications of every medium
00;27;21;25 - 00;27;25;01
that you can... as long as you know
how to tap into each one of them.
00;27;25;01 - 00;27;26;07
That like
00;27;26;07 - 00;27;30;16
it just allows you to do so much more
than we might have thought otherwise.
00;27;30;24 - 00;27;33;02
Yeah, I completely agree. Yeah.
00;27;33;02 - 00;27;37;08
You talked about long form and short form
content and I just I guess I want to get
00;27;37;08 - 00;27;40;19
a little bit of your strategy in here,
just so that I understand.
00;27;40;19 - 00;27;45;08
Like, who are you like shooting short form
content to versus long form content?
00;27;45;08 - 00;27;49;01
Is it someone who maybe perhaps doesn't
00;27;49;04 - 00;27;51;24
care as much
or is maybe a little bit more removed?
00;27;51;24 - 00;27;55;23
You give them the short form content
because like I'm thinking of like a DEI funnel
00;27;55;29 - 00;27;56;28
in a way, like,
00;27;56;28 - 00;27;59;28
you know, a marketing funnel
where like the at the very top
00;27;59;28 - 00;28;02;08
you have folks
who don't know anything about it
00;28;02;08 - 00;28;05;19
and maybe a short form thing
makes a little bit more sense.
00;28;05;21 - 00;28;08;29
And as soon as you go sort of down
that funnel, you might get more
00;28;08;29 - 00;28;10;04
into the longer form content.
00;28;10;04 - 00;28;13;26
So I'm curious as to
is that what you're doing?
00;28;13;28 - 00;28;15;16
Is that a different...?
00;28;15;16 - 00;28;16;27
I mean, you nailed it.
00;28;16;27 - 00;28;18;04
So that is.
00;28;18;04 - 00;28;20;16
Yeah, that is that's absolutely one.
00;28;20;16 - 00;28;26;08
One aspect of it for sure is getting folks
that maybe are curious,
00;28;26;08 - 00;28;30;06
but you know, it's not a priority
that they can sort of
00;28;30;06 - 00;28;33;14
get into that and then it's possible
that they want to go in deeper.
00;28;33;14 - 00;28;35;20
We, you know, our name is She+ Geeks Out.
00;28;35;20 - 00;28;39;02
We talk about geeking out about things
like so we say
00;28;39;05 - 00;28;41;25
if you want to geek out about stuff,
we've got you covered.
00;28;41;25 - 00;28;43;22
Got a lot of stuff for you.
00;28;43;22 - 00;28;46;22
And then I think there are just folks
that learn differently.
00;28;46;28 - 00;28;50;27
So that's the other reason is
there are or not even learn differently,
00;28;50;27 - 00;28;52;10
but just literally don't have the time.
00;28;52;10 - 00;28;56;12
So they may be super curious, but
they have so many things that are going
00;28;56;12 - 00;29;01;08
on. They just need something that is going
to give them some information
00;29;01;10 - 00;29;02;05
that they're looking.
00;29;02;05 - 00;29;03;08
So the Ask SGO,
00;29;03;08 - 00;29;05;14
The purpose of it is there's you know,
we have like
00;29;05;14 - 00;29;06;27
sort of a frequently asked questions.
00;29;06;27 - 00;29;10;10
We get people sort of asking
the same questions over and over again,
00;29;10;13 - 00;29;12;24
but want to just answer it in video
format. Great.
00;29;12;24 - 00;29;14;19
That's wonderful. We get it.
00;29;14;19 - 00;29;17;19
But there are other folks that, so long...
I consider the podcast right
00;29;17;19 - 00;29;21;12
is a long form content
and so there are people that
00;29;21;14 - 00;29;23;12
don't want to be in front of their screens
anymore.
00;29;23;12 - 00;29;25;29
Wonderful. Take us with you.
00;29;25;29 - 00;29;30;14
Bring your little ear buds
and we'll we'll, we'll travel with you.
00;29;30;14 - 00;29;34;18
And while you're on your walk in,
getting fresh air and then that works out
00;29;34;20 - 00;29;38;20
so it's it's it's really meant
for having people who have just
00;29;38;20 - 00;29;43;03
different needs and then how we choose
the content is really based on
00;29;43;03 - 00;29;47;11
what's feasible, what what are the things
that we can actually provide
00;29;47;11 - 00;29;50;20
that are in smaller
bits versus the longer.
00;29;50;27 - 00;29;55;00
Yeah, it feels like what I feel like
I'm hearing there is there's this idea of
00;29;55;00 - 00;29;58;28
in your marketing strategies and even in
just the, the work that you do, there's
00;29;58;28 - 00;30;03;02
a lot of like meeting people
where they're at so that you can
00;30;03;02 - 00;30;06;02
then adapt to their needs
and then they, they feel
00;30;06;05 - 00;30;06;18
when you,
00;30;06;18 - 00;30;09;16
when you show them this kind of level
of like respective like, okay,
00;30;09;16 - 00;30;10;22
we understand where you are
00;30;10;22 - 00;30;14;06
and we're happy to work with you
to get to this other place like that's
00;30;14;06 - 00;30;18;14
so much more inviting and warm and like,
you know, purposeful
00;30;18;14 - 00;30;22;08
than just saying like, oh,
you might need this 40 years from now.
00;30;22;08 - 00;30;24;24
Like,
it's like if you if you don't need it
00;30;24;24 - 00;30;26;29
now, it's okay
if you do need it here, we got you.
00;30;26;29 - 00;30;30;28
Like, there's just something about that
that I think is really wonderful to see.
00;30;30;28 - 00;30;34;24
So I applaud you for doing that work
because I think I think sometimes
00;30;34;24 - 00;30;39;10
it can seem like more work on the side
of like the communication side
00;30;39;10 - 00;30;43;03
to, like, be like we've had discussions
with different companies
00;30;43;03 - 00;30;44;13
over the years that are like,
00;30;44;13 - 00;30;48;01
how do we really need to put in all these
closed captioning and all this here?
00;30;48;01 - 00;30;51;27
And like, you know, take our blog
and make it short form over here.
00;30;52;04 - 00;30;54;02
It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00;30;54;02 - 00;30;56;16
That's important work
if it makes a big difference.
00;30;56;16 - 00;31;00;07
So I think it's a just a testament
to the work that you're doing.
00;31;00;10 - 00;31;01;11
Well, I love this.
00;31;01;11 - 00;31;02;05
Thank you so much.
00;31;02;05 - 00;31;04;24
I'll take in all of those wonderful
compliments.
00;31;04;24 - 00;31;06;16
I always, always.
00;31;06;16 - 00;31;09;29
Are you familiar with the platinum
rule versus the Golden Rule?
00;31;10;01 - 00;31;12;23
No. No. So it's what I'm ready to learn?
00;31;12;23 - 00;31;16;08
Yeah, it's one of my favorite things
that I think about it a lot.
00;31;16;08 - 00;31;18;06
And it's
I think it's related to what you said.
00;31;18;06 - 00;31;22;10
So the golden rules, you know,
treat people how you want to be treated.
00;31;22;12 - 00;31;25;20
The platinum rule is treat people
how they want to be treated.
00;31;25;22 - 00;31;29;09
And when I started out as a people
00;31;29;09 - 00;31;32;21
manager many, many moons ago,
I was terrible at it.
00;31;32;21 - 00;31;38;01
Absolute garbage. You know, partly
my fault, partly the fall of the company,
00;31;38;01 - 00;31;42;17
that for not giving me any training,
which is very true, I had a lot of places.
00;31;42;19 - 00;31;45;19
But as I've evolved and learned more,
00;31;45;21 - 00;31;50;19
the Platinum Rule has always stuck with
me and I think about that
00;31;50;21 - 00;31;53;04
with regard to everything that I do,
00;31;53;04 - 00;31;56;29
is do your best to be empathetic
to what is happening on the other
00;31;56;29 - 00;32;02;09
side of the screen or the desk
or the table or wherever you are,
00;32;02;11 - 00;32;04;10
because you have no idea
00;32;04;10 - 00;32;08;10
what stories are happening,
what is going on with that other person.
00;32;08;13 - 00;32;12;08
All you can do is lead with empathy
and try to be...
00;32;12;10 - 00;32;16;21
try to recognize where that folk,
where that person's coming from
00;32;16;24 - 00;32;20;07
and provide information
and be as helpful as you can.
00;32;20;10 - 00;32;23;10
If we all did,
that would probably have world peace.
00;32;23;11 - 00;32;26;01
It would be nice. It would be lovely...
00;32;26;01 - 00;32;27;18
Wouldn’t we all love that. Yes.
00;32;27;18 - 00;32;27;29
Yeah.
00;32;27;29 - 00;32;31;22
I think that this touches
a little bit on a question I have because
00;32;31;25 - 00;32;33;13
you're kind of tapping into it already.
00;32;33;13 - 00;32;37;19
But, you know, in this in this idea
of doing communications work, trying
00;32;37;19 - 00;32;43;08
to get your message out there, what advice
might you give to other organizations
00;32;43;08 - 00;32;48;05
who are looking to do like any,
you know, marketing communication efforts?
00;32;48;05 - 00;32;51;16
But even within animation, like
where would you recommend they
00;32;51;18 - 00;32;54;11
how they think about it
or how they approach it
00;32;54;11 - 00;32;57;13
if it's something they've never done
before, what advice might you have?
00;32;57;14 - 00;32;58;29
Yeah, yeah.
00;32;58;29 - 00;33;00;19
I mean,
I don't think I'm going to say anything
00;33;00;19 - 00;33;05;02
that's particularly brilliant here
or surprising.
00;33;05;02 - 00;33;07;03
You just blew me away with the Platinum Rule.
00;33;07;03 - 00;33;07;29
I know. I did it.
00;33;07;29 - 00;33;10;13
That was it. Yes, yes, yes.
00;33;10;13 - 00;33;11;27
Interview over.
00;33;11;27 - 00;33;14;15
oh right the like,
what is it, like a one hit wonder?
00;33;14;15 - 00;33;16;14
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
00;33;16;14 - 00;33;21;14
I did it. We’re done. Go out on top. Yes.
00;33;21;17 - 00;33;21;26
Yeah.
00;33;21;26 - 00;33;24;09
I mean I think
that there's a lot of practical advice
00;33;24;09 - 00;33;27;08
that I think
we're all pretty familiar with, which is,
00;33;27;09 - 00;33;29;09
you know, just be really intentional,
00;33;29;09 - 00;33;32;06
really understand
why you're doing what you're doing.
00;33;32;06 - 00;33;34;23
I just think that we can kind of get shiny
00;33;34;23 - 00;33;37;26
ball syndrome and be like,
Oh, I want to do this thing.
00;33;37;26 - 00;33;42;07
It looks really cool, whether it's VR
or animation or whatever it is.
00;33;42;09 - 00;33;43;27
But be really clear.
00;33;43;27 - 00;33;48;18
And also think about the longevity,
because I think when you're investing in
00;33;48;18 - 00;33;51;18
something like animation,
it is a little different than when you're
00;33;51;18 - 00;33;53;22
writing a blog post
where you can just like
00;33;53;22 - 00;33;57;11
that change up the words that you needed
to write or the link
00;33;57;14 - 00;34;01;06
When you're committing to animation, it's
something that you know, ideally
00;34;01;06 - 00;34;04;05
you're going to want it to last
for a while
00;34;04;08 - 00;34;08;19
and think about what its applications are
and why you're doing it,
00;34;08;19 - 00;34;12;06
and ideally partner
with some really smart folks
00;34;12;08 - 00;34;13;28
that I happened to be talking with.
00;34;13;28 - 00;34;17;04
But I think that that intentionality piece
we we talk a lot
00;34;17;04 - 00;34;20;04
I think in business about like
what are your goals
00;34;20;11 - 00;34;24;03
but and sometimes
it can sound nebulous
00;34;24;05 - 00;34;27;08
but I think if you can really ground it
in practical terms,
00;34;27;08 - 00;34;30;08
really, what is your goal
for this form of communication?
00;34;30;08 - 00;34;34;04
Why are you doing...
If your instinct first is,
00;34;34;04 - 00;34;37;04
I want to do an animation,
but I'm not sure what I want to do it on.
00;34;37;11 - 00;34;39;24
Well, ask yourself why? What?
00;34;39;24 - 00;34;40;21
What is it?
00;34;40;21 - 00;34;43;11
What is it
that you're trying to achieve here?
00;34;43;11 - 00;34;45;25
And then sort of try to work the other way
around.
00;34;45;25 - 00;34;48;22
Like I said,
nothing sort of like mind blowing, but.
00;34;48;22 - 00;34;51;15
Yeah, crucial. Yeah.
00;34;51;17 - 00;34;54;04
No, these are things that we need
reminders of too.
00;34;54;04 - 00;34;57;04
I think a lot of times it's
especially in the, in the,
00;34;57;10 - 00;35;00;06
the day and age of like feeling like
00;35;00;06 - 00;35;05;14
the need to just pump out content
as much as possible is like
00;35;05;16 - 00;35;09;01
there's that I think we go into that panic
zone of like,
00;35;09;08 - 00;35;10;28
how are we going to put out
all this content?
00;35;10;28 - 00;35;12;28
Okay, let's throw this here,
let's throw this here.
00;35;12;28 - 00;35;17;21
Like without that, that time and care pause to think about,
00;35;17;24 - 00;35;22;16
is this the right decision like it's I
so I applaud you for like
00;35;22;19 - 00;35;25;07
just everything that you're doing
because I think that there's
00;35;25;07 - 00;35;28;07
there's something really important
about needing
00;35;28;09 - 00;35;32;06
and honoring the time
it takes to do this type of work.
00;35;32;08 - 00;35;32;28
Thank you.
00;35;32;28 - 00;35;34;00
It's it's great.
00;35;34;00 - 00;35;37;25
You know, I feel very fortunate to
00;35;37;27 - 00;35;38;21
not only
00;35;38;21 - 00;35;42;14
do this
work, but also the fact that we do.
00;35;42;14 - 00;35;45;23
I personally love being able
to work in different media
00;35;45;23 - 00;35;49;20
and different forms of communication
because I get bored really easily.
00;35;49;26 - 00;35;54;11
So so it's really nice to be able
to to do different things
00;35;54;11 - 00;35;59;14
and to challenge myself in different ways
and and have our our team
00;35;59;14 - 00;36;03;23
to sort of grow in all these ways as well.
00;36;03;25 - 00;36;06;29
So I want to just quickly circle
back to the
00;36;06;29 - 00;36;10;16
I know that's a business term
I love every time I say it, but it's.
00;36;10;16 - 00;36;13;13
No, let's get some synergies
going. I'm ready.
00;36;13;13 - 00;36;17;20
Yes. So I want to just acknowledge earlier
you mentioned, too,
00;36;17;20 - 00;36;22;28
that you could kind of touch on sort of
where the DEI space is right now.
00;36;23;00 - 00;36;23;25
Oh, yeah.
00;36;23;25 - 00;36;27;14
So I want to just leave space for that
because I think that that's important
00;36;27;14 - 00;36;29;27
for people to hear,
because we've had conversations
00;36;29;27 - 00;36;33;19
over the years
with different folks in in many,
00;36;33;25 - 00;36;36;19
I guess, other industries as well,
but mostly in the animation space.
00;36;36;19 - 00;36;40;05
And we're asking questions
like when budget cuts happen,
00;36;40;05 - 00;36;43;04
how do you make sure that DEI is not cut
from that budget like.
00;36;43;04 - 00;36;46;25
So there's I'm kind of curious where
in our current moment in time
00;36;46;25 - 00;36;49;11
you're seeing the space overall?
00;36;49;13 - 00;36;51;24
Yeah, it has been a wild ride.
00;36;51;24 - 00;36;56;11
So, you know, back in 2017
when we started this work,
00;36;56;11 - 00;37;01;00
I like to call it like it was
it was the Wild West
00;37;01;03 - 00;37;04;06
and I mean not that this work
hadn't been being done and called
00;37;04;06 - 00;37;07;27
something else
multicultural work, whatever, for decades,
00;37;07;29 - 00;37;10;25
but it was kind of the Wild West,
you know, not no real
00;37;10;25 - 00;37;15;13
formal education around it,
nothing really specific.
00;37;15;15 - 00;37;17;22
And then and that was evolving.
00;37;17;22 - 00;37;21;18
And there were more programs,
more certificates, more master's programs.
00;37;21;18 - 00;37;24;29
You're seeing more of that,
you know, those concentrations.
00;37;25;02 - 00;37;27;16
And then in 2020,
with the murder of George Floyd
00;37;27;16 - 00;37;32;17
and so many others, what we found was
there was a gold rush
00;37;32;19 - 00;37;35;19
and it went from, you know,
00;37;35;21 - 00;37;41;07
a lot of really dedicated people
doing it to a lot of folks who maybe saw
00;37;41;15 - 00;37;44;25
financial opportunities and ran with that
00;37;44;25 - 00;37;47;25
and in a variety of different ways.
00;37;47;28 - 00;37;51;06
And then in
I would say over the past a year
00;37;51;07 - 00;37;54;22
or so, there was a downslide.
00;37;54;25 - 00;37;57;20
Not only was the market sort of saturated,
00;37;57;20 - 00;38;00;11
but there was fatigue, diversity, fatigue.
00;38;00;11 - 00;38;02;28
And I think that that still exists.
00;38;02;28 - 00;38;07;22
And it has been compounded
with all of the news in the world
00;38;07;24 - 00;38;11;17
that's happening,
whether it's I'll just pick two big items,
00;38;11;20 - 00;38;16;07
you know, climate change and Dobbsl. I think
that are both,
00;38;16;07 - 00;38;20;06
I think, related to the work that we do
and critically important.
00;38;20;09 - 00;38;22;04
So There's fatigue.
00;38;22;04 - 00;38;24;14
Meanwhile, there are so many crises.
00;38;24;14 - 00;38;27;02
I'm not even going to talk
about the politics right now.
00;38;27;02 - 00;38;29;26
There are so many crises
that are happening.
00;38;29;26 - 00;38;34;15
And I think people
the workplace is evolving.
00;38;34;17 - 00;38;35;15
I think
00;38;35;15 - 00;38;38;10
with also the advent of remote work
00;38;38;10 - 00;38;41;22
because of COVID and that shift happening.
00;38;41;25 - 00;38;46;19
And then I think there is in a way,
an awakening where folks are realizing
00;38;46;21 - 00;38;51;02
that companies aren't necessarily
going to care
00;38;51;02 - 00;38;56;14
as much about their employees as they
maybe said that they did in 2020, 2021.
00;38;56;16 - 00;38;57;07
Right.
00;38;57;07 - 00;39;00;28
And that's that's
been proven out with layoffs and with cuts
00;39;00;28 - 00;39;04;11
on benefits, with sort of heartless acts
00;39;04;12 - 00;39;06;05
I think.
00;39;06;05 - 00;39;10;05
Yeah, we've seen this very
greatly recently on the animation side,
00;39;10;05 - 00;39;15;00
I think it was something like 16,000 jobs
have been cut over the last year or so.
00;39;15;00 - 00;39;17;26
So, yeah, totally understand
where you're coming from.
00;39;17;26 - 00;39;18;24
Exactly. Right.
00;39;18;24 - 00;39;24;17
So how, so if you think about it,
it behooves companies to continue to
00;39;24;17 - 00;39;27;21
do this work because employees
00;39;27;29 - 00;39;32;12
are caring less and less about companies.
00;39;32;14 - 00;39;34;27
So I think we're in this
00;39;34;27 - 00;39;39;07
really interesting time where I think
not only are we seeing companies
00;39;39;07 - 00;39;43;06
sort of scale back their efforts around DEI.
Not all of them,
00;39;43;06 - 00;39;44;09
mind you,
00;39;44;09 - 00;39;46;22
there are definitely still companies
that are totally committed to it
00;39;46;22 - 00;39;49;05
because they get it
and they know that it's important.
00;39;49;05 - 00;39;54;00
Yeah, I think you also have
the compounded factor of employees
00;39;54;00 - 00;39;57;10
caring less about the workplace
00;39;57;12 - 00;40;01;19
because they why would they care about
the workplace when they're focused on
00;40;01;21 - 00;40;05;11
They've got to focus on their home
and their family
00;40;05;12 - 00;40;08;16
because that's the stuff that matters
and it ends up becoming it's
00;40;08;16 - 00;40;13;01
more of a transactional relationship,
I think, within companies now.
00;40;13;08 - 00;40;15;26
So I think there's going to be
some sort of a reckoning.
00;40;15;26 - 00;40;19;23
And I think that's what we're sort
of facing now, is employers and employees
00;40;19;26 - 00;40;25;08
needing to find a way to trust
each other again, which has been broken.
00;40;25;14 - 00;40;29;07
And then I think that there's
a possibility that DEI in whatever
00;40;29;07 - 00;40;34;06
format, whether it's its current iteration
or it evolves to something else,
00;40;34;08 - 00;40;37;28
I think that will still need to happen
because,
00;40;38;01 - 00;40;41;16
you know, until the robots take over,
we've got humans.
00;40;41;19 - 00;40;43;05
Yes. No.
00;40;43;05 - 00;40;45;11
It's a great point
because I think that's also true, too.
00;40;45;11 - 00;40;48;24
Like a lot of what you were saying
terms of what's been happening
00;40;48;24 - 00;40;52;11
is sort of parallel on our side with like
what's happening with AI and like,
00;40;52;18 - 00;40;53;28
you know, everything's evolving.
00;40;53;28 - 00;40;57;18
So it's it is interesting to kind of
00;40;57;20 - 00;41;01;03
see everything that's happening,
especially as like
00;41;01;05 - 00;41;04;03
as owners
and trying to understand, okay, how do
00;41;04;03 - 00;41;08;13
how do we as as one company
navigate this very big landscape.
00;41;08;13 - 00;41;12;00
So yeah, I appreciate the transparency
that you're sharing.
00;41;12;00 - 00;41;15;16
So I think there's there's a lot there
that I think
00;41;15;18 - 00;41;20;06
I think is helpful for people to see that
it's yeah, you're very conscious of
00;41;20;06 - 00;41;25;28
and it's not just a going back to that
idea of like DEI is not a transaction, it's
00;41;26;00 - 00;41;30;15
Yeah, it's a change in like
in the way that companies
00;41;30;15 - 00;41;35;17
have been run for a long time and that's,
Yeah, that can be very Panic-Zony.
00;41;35;17 - 00;41;38;18
But yeah very Panic-Zony. Yeah.
00;41;38;18 - 00;41;40;22
Yeah that's my new term now.
00;41;40;22 - 00;41;41;13
I love it.
00;41;41;13 - 00;41;46;05
Well and you think about it
I mean companies have been making
00;41;46;07 - 00;41;48;27
millions and millions
and millions of dollars
00;41;48;27 - 00;41;52;12
with still primarily white men
in charge of everything.
00;41;52;14 - 00;41;56;05
So I think there's this sort of short
term view of like,
00;41;56;05 - 00;41;57;29
well, it's just going to be this way.
00;41;57;29 - 00;42;01;01
Like while the demographics are shifting,
I think.
00;42;01;01 - 00;42;02;02
Mark Cuban,
00;42;02;02 - 00;42;06;29
I don't know if you saw any of that debate
between Mark Cuban and Elon Musk.
00;42;07;01 - 00;42;09;29
Elon is not one of my favorite
people. I’m just going to have
00;42;09;29 - 00;42;11;29
to, you know, put it out there.
00;42;11;29 - 00;42;14;00
I feel very comfortable saying that
because I don't
00;42;14;00 - 00;42;18;00
I think I'm pretty small potatoes.
I don't think he's going to come after me.
00;42;18;02 - 00;42;18;16
Yeah.
00;42;18;16 - 00;42;18;29
Yeah.
00;42;18;29 - 00;42;21;29
So but he sort of, you know, he made some
so he said
00;42;21;29 - 00;42;24;29
DEI must DIE, right.
00;42;25;05 - 00;42;29;26
Lovely, pithy, little annoying statement
And Mark Cuban, who for the
00;42;29;26 - 00;42;33;19
for those of you who may not know him
was, you know, he's a shark tank
00;42;33;22 - 00;42;39;06
entrepreneur, millionaire, Dallas
Mavericks owner, blah, blah, blah.
00;42;39;08 - 00;42;40;02
He sold. It.
00;42;40;02 - 00;42;43;02
He did just sell it. He just sold it, right? Yeah.
00;42;43;07 - 00;42;45;13
It was a great interview with him.
00;42;45;13 - 00;42;48;04
I highly recommend the Trevor
Noah podcast.
00;42;48;04 - 00;42;48;26
Yeah. Oh yes.
00;42;48;26 - 00;42;50;11
Yeah, definitely. Right now.
00;42;50;11 - 00;42;52;05
Yeah. What now. Exactly. It's great.
00;42;52;05 - 00;42;55;20
And he was on there
and they were talking about DEI
00;42;55;20 - 00;42;59;05
in the future DEI
because he basically was like,
00;42;59;08 - 00;43;03;12
Elon, you're an idiot because the future is DEI.
00;43;03;15 - 00;43;06;09
Yes Yes, we
this is the world that we live in.
00;43;06;09 - 00;43;11;03
The generations after us are like,
What are you even talking...
00;43;11;03 - 00;43;15;27
Why would there be these crazy power
dynamics that don't make any sense?
00;43;15;27 - 00;43;18;08
Like, we need to get it together? So.
00;43;18;08 - 00;43;19;25
So, yeah.
00;43;19;25 - 00;43;20;14
Thank you. Thank you.
00;43;20;14 - 00;43;22;07
One last question, and it's a big one.
00;43;22;07 - 00;43;24;02
And so anyway, we can cut if it doesn’t work.
00;43;24;02 - 00;43;25;06
Yeah.
00;43;25;06 - 00;43;28;21
I'm seeing a lot of parallels
between how you describe
00;43;28;23 - 00;43;31;20
how DEI training started
00;43;31;20 - 00;43;36;08
and like how animation is currently.
00;43;36;10 - 00;43;39;05
Like there
is this like old way of doing it
00;43;39;05 - 00;43;43;09
that like Disney built,
but then all these like new tools
00;43;43;09 - 00;43;47;25
started to come up and different ways
of working started to become available
00;43;47;25 - 00;43;51;26
and more accessible to people like us
and other folks who are running
00;43;51;26 - 00;43;54;05
maybe their own smaller shops.
00;43;54;08 - 00;43;56;08
And there
00;43;56;08 - 00;44;00;08
seems to be, as time goes
on, these like new tools
00;44;00;08 - 00;44;04;10
that keep popping up and making
and maybe this is not true,
00;44;04;10 - 00;44;09;04
but I'm making a connection to like
DEI’s like core things.
00;44;09;04 - 00;44;12;04
Are they changing as time goes on?
00;44;12;04 - 00;44;16;19
Because like, the way we work
in, the tools that we use are changing.
00;44;16;21 - 00;44;19;08
They're changing internally
as like standalone tools,
00;44;19;08 - 00;44;23;09
but also other new tools are coming in
and changing the way we work. A.I.
00;44;23;09 - 00;44;24;11
for example.
00;44;24;11 - 00;44;29;10
So is that happening at like
sort of a more conversational level
00;44;29;10 - 00;44;32;14
with DEI where like something is,
you know, something's the norm.
00;44;32;14 - 00;44;36;12
This is how we talk about the DEI
and then some other new thing pops up
00;44;36;12 - 00;44;40;28
and then you have to like,
adjust your whole training set. So
00;44;41;00 - 00;44;41;27
yeah.
00;44;41;27 - 00;44;45;26
Oh, okay.
00;44;45;29 - 00;44;49;15
DEI is is ever evolving.
00;44;49;15 - 00;44;51;26
Got it. As humans evolve as generations.
00;44;51;26 - 00;44;56;21
So I'll give you one
example is like so She+ Geeks Out, right
00;44;56;23 - 00;45;02;21
is women in tech and then we learn more
about gender fluidity
00;45;02;23 - 00;45;04;28
and we're like, well,
how do we bring in folks
00;45;04;28 - 00;45;08;18
that are non-binary, that are trans women
that, you know, we want to make sure
00;45;08;18 - 00;45;11;16
that we're being inclusive
and we really struggle with it
00;45;11;16 - 00;45;14;25
and so we decided to add a plus
after “She” to
00;45;14;25 - 00;45;18;15
to that's why we did that was to sort it
to bring that in together.
00;45;18;17 - 00;45;22;02
And I will give credit to Molly Walters
in a conversation in case she is listening
00;45;22;02 - 00;45;23;03
or watching this.
00;45;23;03 - 00;45;25;25
She she and
I had a conversation in front of a
00;45;25;25 - 00;45;28;00
I think it was like a Lesbians Who Tech conference.
00;45;28;00 - 00;45;30;11
We had a conversation and she was like,
why don't you add a plus?
00;45;30;11 - 00;45;33;06
And I was like, That's a brilliant idea.
00;45;33;06 - 00;45;35;21
So I give her credit for that
00;45;35;23 - 00;45;38;13
and and to follow that and that,
that has been great.
00;45;38;13 - 00;45;42;23
We we still have that to follow that we,
we for a little while
00;45;42;23 - 00;45;46;05
there decided to get rid of the E
in women and
00;45;46;09 - 00;45;49;08
and woman and put an X there instead
00;45;49;08 - 00;45;52;17
and when we did that we learned
that we were actually alienating
00;45;52;17 - 00;45;56;27
some other folks who were really trans
women who were like, No,
00;45;56;27 - 00;46;02;08
I'm actually I want the I want the A like
I am a woman like and I don't want it.
00;46;02;10 - 00;46;03;21
I don't want to change that.
00;46;03;21 - 00;46;07;26
Don't don't change that to make it
not that. That's an example.
00;46;07;26 - 00;46;10;13
So it it's really individual right
00;46;10;13 - 00;46;12;19
because you'll have a group of folks
that feel that way
00;46;12;19 - 00;46;14;21
and then you'll have another group
that feels this way.
00;46;14;21 - 00;46;19;25
So you try to understand that and provide
context, even using gender pronouns
00;46;19;28 - 00;46;23;11
on the regular, there are folks
that they're like, I will never forget.
00;46;23;11 - 00;46;28;02
I had a conversation with a woman
who said, You know, I have been fighting
00;46;28;02 - 00;46;32;15
all my life to be in leadership
and not have it be about my gender
00;46;32;22 - 00;46;36;26
and just respect me
for like being a person doing this work.
00;46;36;29 - 00;46;40;04
And now you're asking me to, like,
constantly refer to my gender and I don't
00;46;40;04 - 00;46;41;20
want to do that.
00;46;41;22 - 00;46;43;11
So it's it's always nuanced.
00;46;43;11 - 00;46;44;14
Yeah, it's always nuanced.
00;46;44;14 - 00;46;48;20
It's always complex, and
it is absolutely evolving all the time.
00;46;48;20 - 00;46;50;09
Those are just like a few examples.
00;46;50;09 - 00;46;52;13
I have like 30 more, but no.
00;46;52;13 - 00;46;54;05
Yeah, no. That makes perfect sense.
00;46;54;05 - 00;46;55;04
Yeah. Yeah.
00;46;55;04 - 00;46;57;13
I think we're trying
to be mindful of your time
00;46;57;13 - 00;46;59;03
because I feel like
we could probably go for hours.
00;46;59;03 - 00;47;00;12
Oh, you're so sweet. We.
00;47;00;12 - 00;47;01;01
Yeah, we could.
00;47;01;01 - 00;47;03;22
We I mean, we, we probably a lot
to talk about with Elon Musk.
00;47;03;22 - 00;47;07;04
But that'll be another podcast
for another day.
00;47;07;06 - 00;47;10;26
But yes, so in the midst of things,
if you know, if people are wanting
00;47;10;26 - 00;47;14;26
to learn more about She+ Geeks Out
and where to go and they're saying,
00;47;14;26 - 00;47;17;03
you know what,
I need to get in on the DEI training
00;47;17;03 - 00;47;19;29
or I need to be part of a community,
where can they go?
00;47;19;29 - 00;47;23;28
How can they either follow you
or contact you or anything of that nature
00;47;23;28 - 00;47;25;29
that you're that you're comfortable
with? Yeah.
00;47;25;29 - 00;47;28;10
Yeah. Well,
thank you for asking. Definitely.
00;47;28;10 - 00;47;33;10
SheGeeksOut.com is the number one best place,
and there's offshoots from there.
00;47;33;10 - 00;47;38;26
We have SGOlearning.com, which is
our online asynchronous learning platform.
00;47;38;28 - 00;47;39;25
You can find me
00;47;39;25 - 00;47;44;23
I actually my name is incredibly generic
so you have to like Google Rachel Murray.
00;47;44;23 - 00;47;48;02
She geeks out really to find me
but I'm on LinkedIn
00;47;48;04 - 00;47;53;10
and we're also on LinkedIn, YouTube,
Instagram and the pod's so... Awesome.
00;47;53;10 - 00;47;55;23
Yeah. What's the what's the podcast called?
00;47;55;23 - 00;47;58;23
The She Geeks Out podcast. Oh Ok.
00;47;59;01 - 00;47;59;26
Love it.
00;47;59;26 - 00;48;03;05
Best branding pretty clear. That’s pretty clear.
00;48;03;07 - 00;48;04;03
That's all you need.
00;48;04;03 - 00;48;06;00
That's all. You need.
00;48;06;00 - 00;48;06;23
That's amazing.
00;48;06;23 - 00;48;06;27
Well,
00;48;06;27 - 00;48;11;04
yeah thank you so much for taking the time
today for this wonderful conversation.
00;48;11;04 - 00;48;14;09
I felt like it was very it's very organic
every time we talk to you
00;48;14;09 - 00;48;16;16
that it's there's just like we have a flow
00;48;16;16 - 00;48;19;08
that I'm just like, oh, yeah, let's
talk about this. Okay, let's go on that.
00;48;19;08 - 00;48;21;07
Yeah, it's a. Wonderful thing.
00;48;21;07 - 00;48;22;01
Yeah.
00;48;22;01 - 00;48;23;11
I had a great time.
00;48;23;11 - 00;48;25;23
Yeah. Thank you.
And we'll we'll talk to you soon.
00;48;25;23 - 00;48;27;00
Sounds great.
00;48;27;00 - 00;48;27;28
Thank you.
00;48;27;28 - 00;48;33;17
Bye bye.
00;48;33;19 - 00;48;36;26
This episode was brought to you
by E-Media.
00;48;36;28 - 00;48;38;16
Our producer is Jackson Foote.
00;48;38;16 - 00;48;41;21
Our music was created by Hidden
and licensed through PremiumBeat.com.
00;48;41;26 - 00;48;44;12
And until next time. Stay honest.
00;48;44;12 - 00;48;45;09
Stay creative.
00;48;45;09 - 00;48;47;00
Stay open. Open Pixel Studios.
00;48;47;00 - 00;48;48;27
We will see you in the next episode.