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Even the most prominent voices in Sales were crap at Sales once.
Join bestselling Author, Founder and Sales Coach Mark Ackers as he speaks with successful Sales professionals about their early Sales struggles, and how they overcame these challenges to become the people they are today.
mark ackers: How many years do
you think you'd been selling?
Until you had that realize that
realization that you're crap
probably talked to you about
that moment, then you'd had a
few roles, including head of
sales? Yeah. So when I went to
business development job, I sat
down with the guys called Paddy.
I sat there for two weeks. And I
was like, wow, that's, that's a
coach. That's a leader. And wow,
I'm really having proper sales.
I didn't realize that I've just
been winging it. And then I look
back on the whole crowd. Wow,
how did I get to I got to do it
that way. When you look back
now, before Paddy, what would
you score yourself? I would not
hire me in a heartbeat. No, I
wouldn't have hired me why?
Jack Hankey: I was days, I was
like, when the call was getting
higher and you're not able to
hit it. I couldn't work out a
way to hit it. And then when I
took this job, I was convinced
the brand new managing director
made a mistake. Posture
syndrome. Yeah, they more so
because I just had the moment of
losing the job not being good
enough. They're gonna find me
out again. I had that mindset as
I'm gonna get found out again,
impostor syndrome. It actually
is such a good thing sometimes.
How can you get over that?
mark ackers: You've almost said
like, I wouldn't be where I was
today. Yes. If it wasn't for my
coach. Yeah. How so? You've
obviously met hundreds if not
1000s of salespeople. Yeah. Most
don't have a coach. What do you
think about that?
Jack Hankey: Years and years
ago, I would be like, Why? No,
no, why not? Module One.
mark ackers: Welcome to another
episode of The I used to be crap
at sales podcast. I'm your host,
Mark Ackers. And today I'm
joined by someone who's
responsible for coaching and
developing the future sales
talent. Leyton their head of
sales development UK. It's Jack
Hankey. Jack, welcome. Great to
have you on the podcast. How you
doing? Very good. Thank you.
Thanks for having me. Looking
forward to it. Absolute
pleasure. Let's just kick it off
with a yes, no question. Yep.
Did you used to be crap at
sales? Yes. Let's get into it.
Yeah. So why don't we first of
all right. Tell us a little bit
about your background. bring it
to life for us. I know you've
actually got a sporting
background, haven't you? Yes.
Yeah. Why don't we start there?
Because I think it links very
nicely to what you do now in
Leyton. But just tell us a
little bit about your background
and how you got to where you are
today. Yeah, so go right back to
the start. I used to play tennis
when I was quite a bit younger,
still do play now.
Jack Hankey: decided I wanted to
go back to school weirdly
enough, not many kids would say
that. And then got coached by
some really good coaches good
was around professional players.
It was brilliant exposure, but
just missed school. And then
yeah, play tennis till I was
about 16
and then decided to go into
coaching probably about 70 and
80. Just because it was a great
Saturday job to have paid better
than pot washing, spent some
time working with various
different cultures all over the
country, and then became a head
coach at a tennis club in
Wimbledon. The epicenter of
tennis when they say was about
20 to 23. Coach player, a player
to junior woman quarterfinals I
felt like doing really good and
just didn't enjoy it so much
felt like I'd kind of hit my
ceiling of what I wanted to
achieve in the sport. So then I
moved into sales. Got a job? Can
we call Mannheim carwash is very
old school company. But it's the
business my dad always worked
in. So he will say didn't help
me get a job, but he definitely
did. And then yeah, just
progressed through my career
working at sports clothing
company that moved into like
health and safety software, and
then I'm here at later now.
mark ackers: I mean, just
playing that back. You got taken
our schools play tennis. Yes.
How old? Are you then?
Jack Hankey: 11? Yeah, 11 year
seven.
mark ackers: I don't even know
that sort of thing happened.
Yeah,
Jack Hankey: doors is a bit
different now. They have schools
within the centers as such, so
like you with your peers, I was
on my own. I was the youngest
person there. There was three or
four of us at this academies in
Bolton. And the others were in
like year nine year 10. And
that's part of the sort of
school we went to for maths and
English. That was deaf schools
on another site, so I'd even
have them around me. And yeah,
but now it's all I built in that
you have the academies where
everything's in house. So you're
in a classroom with your peers,
and you do your schoolwork that
way. Right. So it's a little bit
of a holdover. Yeah.
mark ackers: But you must have
been, I appreciate you won't say
it. But also, you must have been
exceptional at tennis at 11 to
be taken out of school. Like
just how good were you? Because
I know tennis has like seedings
and ranking systems don't have
it.
Jack Hankey: I was actually I
think I was like top 10 maybe
six, seven in the country at
that point for your age or Yeah,
like under twelves. And yeah, I
wasn't the best, but I actually
was about told that and
obviously I thought people would
say I'm sat down now but I'm
like six foot five. So the the
autobio testing on you. And that
technically is good, but he's
gonna get better because he's
got to basically come out pretty
tall
mark ackers: to test to see how
tall you're gonna be. Yeah, they
Jack Hankey: can do that test
about your feet and bail stuff
over. I don't know that weighs
on me when I was a kid sometimes
mark ackers: must be a diet of
tuna and egg lasagna.
Jack Hankey: Yeah, Daniel. Just
tuna, cheese and pastures.
Legitimately sad all the time.
But
mark ackers: no, yeah, I think
that's gone for me. But I saw it
as soon as I saw you today for
the first time in the flesh.
Yeah, yeah. Yes. I was looking
out. Yeah. And so you're in the
top 10 maybe six or seven. Have
you saved age 11 taken out
playing tennis. I couldn't help
kind of come to rely on the
podcast, but let's dive into it
now. So Jason good coaches. Yes.
Tell me about that.
Jack Hankey: Yeah. So I had
three really top coaches that
really resonated with me. One
was a guy called Rohan. He was
like my first coach. I cried
when he moved to Turkey and I
cried. Because he spent a lot of
time with me, it gave me the
belief. He was the set. He was
at the point where I was
technically getting to a decent
level. I think it was between
eight and nine. And then his
Luckily his mate had just moved
up into Manchester area and he
took over coaching me and he was
he was great. It's called Brian
McFadden. He's down in Dorking
think now as long Telesco
better, but he was a performance
coach. And he was just so much
fun to be around by the year. I
still like jokes, he would just
crack on the toast, but it just
made you feel so comfortable.
And that's it. Like when I was
getting I was when I was in
school. I was good at tennis
about six in the morning,
playing tennis, go into school,
coming out of school playing
tennis, fitness training. has
these guys understood that? It
has to be fun. I saw plenty of
coaches that didn't make it fun.
And that's kind of what I try
and do now with work and stuff
like sales is hard. You know,
you have to learn how to but
let's have fun while we're doing
it. And then Dave Sandler was,
so when I still speak to
sometimes because he's like a
mindset coach as well as a
tennis coach and traveled all
around the world doing that. And
he was the opposite. He was
intense. But yeah, he was using
his good friends with my dad.
And we talked to the guy called
Liam Brody now who's top 100 in
the world. And yeah, he very
intense. But you worked for him.
He made you run through walls.
mark ackers: Let's move the
conversation on a little bit
then. To sales. Yeah. So no one
grows up wanting to be in sales.
Yeah, hard. Imagine when you're
at the tennis courts. You're
thinking, get me out of here. I
can't wait for salaries. Yeah.
You said you moved into sales
quite quickly. Yes. How did that
happen?
Jack Hankey: So my father was
worth in sales. So I've seen it,
I've been around all my life.
And, you know, I take a lot of
inspiration from him how hard he
works. And I just felt like, as
a tennis coach, I think I will
sell in any way. Because if I'm
not showing that I'm the best
coach or around the club,
they're just gonna go to another
coach. So I had to sell myself
anyway, as with my strengths and
weaknesses as a coach, and, you
know, sell my USPS and all that.
I was naturally doing it without
knowing I was doing it. So then
it just when I looked back at
what I wanted to do, I kind of
felt that the only thing I
really can do selling, because
it didn't have any degree or
anything. I was kind of like,
that was my mindset at the time.
But then, when I looked back,
when I then looked into I was
actually I've been selling for
years, just different products.
So let's just go and sell
something else.
mark ackers: So there's a few
interesting things. You said
that I agree with you. I think I
definitely wanna get into how
you coach your team today and
the links to tennis exchange,
because I think the links are
just unparalleled. But you said
you saw a harder dad worked?
Yes. So talking to as a parent,
right? I've got my lead. I don't
think maybe there's an age thing
there. But I, they probably have
got no idea how hard the parent
works when they're in sales
because they just start making
calls all day or they're on
Skype calls. Like, I feel like,
yeah, it's hard for it. Like if
you did a physical job, you left
the house really early and you
out. Maybe the kid could
appreciate that. How did you
know? Your dad was working
really hard? Because
Jack Hankey: back in the day was
in teams, I think it was mobile
cars and cars and I was in the
passenger seat, right? Okay. We
were driving to tennis coaching
or toilet and I was just
listening. And he was like to go
go, and then pick the phone up.
Right? I'd pretend I wasn't
there. And then if I had to get
out the car to slowly shut the
door. So it was like that.
That's our new director. He was
constantly on the phone and I
don't know what I can't tell you
what he's talking about. But to
me that was saying that he's
always working. And then at a
weekend as well. He was always
traveling I can't imagine our
testing it would have been a mom
and dad's relationship when we
were doing that. Because he was
traveling all over the country.
He lived down south, I remember
it, he was that we were actually
talking about it every day. He
lived down south for three days
a week sometimes, because that's
where the head office was. And
he took a step back in his
career to get into this company.
And so yeah, and I told him that
I appreciate it much more now.
But I also, you know, we had an
we had a nice life when we got
older and stuff as kids and I
know he's down to the moment
that's hard work. Must
Unknown: have been to be I would
play tennis all the time. Yeah,
I was funded a lot of
mark ackers: the old stereotype.
Okay, so it sounds like they
even though you say now I can't
say what he was talking about.
You would have been learning
just through osmosis, just
hearing Salesforce, etc. What
What kind of sales person do you
think you'd had was when you
look back and analyze them now?
Jack Hankey: Relationships go,
that's what he built his whole
career on. Like, he's had a
really good career, look at it
as a career that you would dream
of having, as you know, if you
wanted to do that. He argues now
that you know, when we talk
about who's in the family, like
the better salesman, I'll say
whom you'll say me, which is
quite nice. But yeah, in
relationship, guys, he was very,
very much making his clients
feel that if they were to move
to another provider, or
whatever, that they were going,
they were going to miss the
stuff my dad didn't, I say would
take them very often would take
them to concerts. He took people
to the world box, when would a
night or things like that, and
you always take the partners
with him. He was just very much
that was his life. Like he would
wait to die and people made sure
to feel million dollars when
everyone would say I'm
mark ackers: sorry, did it. So I
know. You're telling me everyone
your dad was in car auction
sales. Very different to sales
you're in today? Yes. So really,
it felt like you were looking at
a need to get a job. He knew
what he had done. He had a lot
of exposure to that way to get
into sales. Your first job you
said that earlier on. Where was
your first job again? A company
called Mannheim. That's it I've
lost the notes. So tell me about
what Mannheim did. Yeah.
Jack Hankey: So they were a car
auction company. Oh, fun.
Strange. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So they
were couch to me. When is it Jr,
account manager, like, say my
dad. He was actually working in
Australia for the company at a
time. And he said he didn't help
me get it. But yeah. And yeah,
so that actually, it felt like I
was doing my best job. Because I
would leave the house Monday
morning with a suitcase. And I'd
come home, probably Thursday
night, Friday afternoon, because
I'd be going to other sites all
around the country. So I was an
account manager for, you know,
like, it wasn't, you know, like
a car company where you sell
your car or get cash. Right. Can
we buy a car from that? Yeah, it
was one of those. Not that one.
It was another one of them.
Right? Battle crafter, I
basically did all the on site
for him. So
mark ackers: you were there?
I've got one that I lost it. But
you were there for just over a
year. One year? Yes. How come
you didn't stay much longer?
Jack Hankey: I didn't like being
my dad. So I guess. So there was
maybe about six or seven months
in. I was at a site in
Colchester. That's where the MD
was based. And the MD comes to
me and goes to want to get
lunch. My boss had never spoken.
As I knew then he said to me in
that lunch, what's it like to be
a hankie in this industry? As
I've done? What? Just wanted to
carve my own? My own story at
that point, I kind of realized
Yeah, it's all good being Datsun
but you're always going to be
mark, so I don't know. Yeah, I
wanted to be Jack. Yeah. So I
can you I couldn't be in that
industry.
mark ackers: So then you move to
how would you pronounce his cut
curry sport? Sports?
Jack Hankey: Yeah, I loved that
job. That was brilliant. That
was my two passions, well, passe
passions. Now it's a passion but
then it probably wasn't sales,
two passions coming together,
selling sports clothing. And
they just use it perfect. All I
would do was talk about sport
all day to various different
schools or sports clubs. You
know, I love cricket teams and
will be teams work on different
worlds where I was used to not
to traditional sports I liked
but I got into sport sport.
mark ackers: And then from there
to had a South Simon Jersey when
you're a senior BDM and now we
find you later in life. Leyton
is a company I'm very familiar
with. I feel like it's something
that probably most people
wouldn't be familiar with,
though. Yeah. Tell us about
later and just what what
problems they solve?
Jack Hankey: Yeah, so laying it
in itself is a tax consultancy
firm. So we basically help
companies access funding from
for tax relief that the
government sets up. Notoriously
it's kind of hard to understand
to do it. Through the guys who
will then help you deliver, like
research and development CCl,
capital allowances, anything
that really will help business
reduce the tax bill will support
them in that. And
mark ackers: your role today. I
appreciate you've grown with me.
But yeah, you look after the SDR
team for the UK and Casablanca.
Yeah.
Jack Hankey: So there's a UK,
sort of older UK. So I've got
teams in Glasgow, Manchester,
London, and then we have two
teams in Casablanca. Casablanca
is is huge officers like, or
they support the whole world of
layin. So like, we have offices
all over the
mark ackers: world. Yeah, yeah.
And how many STRS you have sort
of faded out into?
Jack Hankey: I think it's about
60. As we sit here today. Wow.
So that's, I mean, that's a huge
SDR team that, yes, including
managers in that. But yeah, the
mark ackers: ultimate that
you're responsible for. Yeah.
Okay. So what are you at the
start? Did you speak crap? Yes.
You said, yes. What part of your
career sprung to mind when you
answered that question?
Jack Hankey: When I went to be a
senior business development
before I joined man, and
mark ackers: that was the world.
And so Okay, so talk to you
about that moment, then, because
I'm guessing at that point, you
didn't realize you were crap,
because you'd had a few roles,
including head of sales. Yeah,
Jack Hankey: kind of took a step
back and said, I need to go back
and sell because I was a bit too
young. Green behind it, like,
you know, please speak green.
And so when I went to see me at
that business development job, I
sat down with a guy who's called
Paddy, to this day, like he will
never hear this. He's not very,
you won't listen to podcast. I
use very loved reading, but he's
just not a big on LinkedIn and
stuff. I sat there for two
weeks. And I was like, wow,
that's that's a culture that's a
leader. Wow, I'm really hungry
for sales. I didn't realize I've
just been winging it. And then I
look back at my whole career.
Wow, how did I get to where I
got to do it that way. And it
was poised when I was selling, I
was new. I was I was every point
I just was. Now not not doing
not doing a good job here and
all that. But yeah, with Paddy.
And then I went out with him.
And he would sit, you know, we
would go and see someone and he
would sit there after it
wouldn't I gotta say I got the
sale. He wouldn't talk to you
about the sales talk to you
about point in that I can work
on. A it was it was mind
blowing. But I didn't get to
work from very long because
COVID hit and I was working in
public sector. So it's a bit
sad, really. But I would have
been on a farm myself at later.
So
mark ackers: do the maths for
me, because there's a little
with this. You were selling as a
tennis coach as well. Yeah. How
many years? It's at least five
that I can see from my research.
But we've got the tennis coach
aspect. Yeah. How many years do
you think you'd been selling?
Until you had that realize that
realization that your crab
Jack Hankey: probably three or
434 years? It'd be longer now
and it because of the tennis
coach or with a tennis coach,
you know, gosh, yeah, yes. Yeah.
Yeah. So
mark ackers: close to a decade
in sales in some way, shape, or
form? Yeah. And then you had
this moment that I'm crap. Yeah.
And it sounds like really just
come down to the fact you've got
exposure to someone that was
better than you and showed you a
better way. Yeah, coached. So
how did you survive so long?
Like when you say you are crap,
but let's be let's be really
clear, right? Maybe you're being
very when you look back now
before Paddy, maybe there's a
before paddy after paddy talk
track here. Before patty on a
scale of one to 1010 10 being
elite. One being crap. Yeah.
When you look back now before
Paddy, what would you score
yourself?
Jack Hankey: I would not hire me
in a heartbeat. That's right. So
like probably a three or four.
Okay. You wouldn't hire you in a
heartbeat. No, I wouldn't have
hired me as a salesperson.
mark ackers: So post Paddy. If
you to look at you before Paddy.
Yeah, you wouldn't hire that.
Why?
Jack Hankey: I think I had all
the work ethic, which is best
part about arised sales. But
what I was doing was, it was it
was it was all luck. In my
opinion. I was very lucky. And
then there was days I was like,
when the call was getting higher
and you're not able to hit it. I
couldn't work out a way to hit
it. So I had to like really like
when I look back I really needed
to just take a step. I didn't
really try and make yourself
better is just for doing okay.
There's been a bit of a bit of
ego there.
mark ackers: So, unless
something changed I can just
imagine you did have a strong
work ethic you're playing tennis
at six o'clock in the morning
from 11 o'clock like I do I
appreciate you might not say
you're an elite athlete, but for
an 11 year old. You probably
were I like when i Whenever I've
had the chance to speak to
people that have been like
Olympians or whatnot. I've moved
into sales. Yeah, it's always
like the mindset I just are
staggering really? Yeah. So I
appreciate probably wasn't
working for it. You probably had
that. Yes. I can appreciate ego
as well. Right. You've probably
had it fed to you since you're a
really young age. You're
exceptional. You gotta do the
best. Yeah. Really good. Yeah.
So you get this Patty moment,
before a party, you're now able
to reflect back and go, I was a
three or four when I'm in
heartbeat. Before party, what do
you think you would have scored
yourself? Like
Jack Hankey: an eight or an
eight? Because I still like, if
I look at the results, the
results were all right. Yeah.
But actually look at the
fundamentals that a job. They
were very rarely well, before
party I would have done yeah,
from a numbers. But it's just
like ego sync something in
there. But I have people in
sales who were their career was
going up quite an upward
trajectory around me like
friends of mine, I felt like I
was kind of stole it a little
bit at that point. That's
probably that's why I took this
stuff. Well, if I don't ask you
to step back, but I went from
ourselves to then go and being a
salesperson again, because that
was when like, the moment when I
met it was before I met buyers,
I need to learn. I'm not nowhere
near where I need to be as a
person as a salesperson. Um,
yeah. So yeah, I think, yeah.
mark ackers: Just so you said,
like, Patti won't listen to
this. And that's fine. But
Jack Hankey: you might do like,
you know, maybe
mark ackers: maybe he will,
maybe he won't. But either way
during Paddy, if he heard what
you just said, would have
realized he made you feel that
way?
Jack Hankey: No, no way. He
doesn't even realize the impact
he's had on me, right. To this
day, I still think about this
type of coaching you did for me
and how I could implement it.
But it was worded in such a
short amount of time. But he's
probably the person who's
probably had the biggest impact
on my career. Anyone realize
that?
mark ackers: And one thing I
told him
Jack Hankey: to now, I've never
really reached out to these,
because he's not that type of
like, He's not the type of guy
when he doesn't, he doesn't even
you might like it. But my
relationship with him is only
short. He he never really wanted
to praise whenever he just
wasn't that guy. He was an
opposite of a salesperson.
stereotypical salesperson,
right?
mark ackers: So we realized
we're crap. What do you do to
turn it round?
Jack Hankey: So when I when I,
when I realized that I was
struggling, and it wasn't great.
It was doubling down on on me
and getting me better. Everyone
who works in sales or is able to
learn product to sell or skill
set of services, you obviously
have a capability to take in
information. So if your part
your job is in great, why not.
And if you and you're able to
highlight that, or your manager
or anything is able to highlight
it, which I was I was able to
highlight it on Paddy, etc. And
then double down, learn how to
work it like let's start work if
accepted. And then I just tried
to learn and learn I would just
really drive Saturday morning
watching sales broadcast on
YouTube. Just because I enjoyed
it. And I wanted to try a new
skill set. Sunday nights I would
watch videos and then I talk to
people about their after to try
to get them to watch them. I was
a big drop become a bit
obsessed.
mark ackers: And obviously
that's That's great to hear that
you realize 1000s of skill, one
that be fine tuned, perfected.
I'm guessing that still took a
long time now to get to the
levels you're at now. Yeah,
Jack Hankey: I wouldn't say I'm
good at sales now. Still say
like, you know, you know, I can
I'm better. But I'm now complete
opposite to what I used to be
where I'd think I was about now
I'm like, I probably say I'm not
as good as I am. You know,
there's times where, you know,
I'll go into a meeting. I'll
feel like I'm doing a good job,
but not done a great job.
There's times where I've had too
much shadow me in a meeting. And
I've completely messed it up.
But I thought it was a great
coaching situation like showing
a bit of vulnerability was a new
salesperson. So I was I got the
damn purple are those who didn't
put you know, you can? You can
position it. So yeah, it takes a
long time.
mark ackers: I bet. What's the
lowest point you've had in
sales? Like when you realize
you're crap, it's not going for
you. You're not hitting your
numbers. You talk about like
mucking up sales. We've all done
that. Yeah, but what if I say to
you, like, what's the lowest
point you've had in sales? What
would you say?
Jack Hankey: Probably is
probably losing my job at St
work. It was out of our control
slightly. But he kept somebody
else said I cried. I was upset.
I was really upset. So what
happened? Tell me tell me the
story. COVID here had to make
redundancies reviewed everyone's
performance. I've only been I've
only actually worked from
probably for six, seven months
for COVID it. And yeah, I got a
phone call, you will not score
high enough. And guess what we
will score people on Sunday to
be famous from the CEO like he
did call everyone, which I
thought was pretty, pretty good
thing thing to do. But yeah, and
then at that point, I ended up
just getting a job driving,
Amazon did Amazon's delivery and
worked for me driving all my
other logistics company and I
was like, I'm just gonna, I just
need money, I need to work. And
that was probably the lowest
point in my career in sales. He
was like, and then I've missed
out on big deals, but they don't
really hurt. That personally
hurt me a lot.
mark ackers: And why they
personally hurt you. Is it
because you've been scored? Or
because that's I mean, it's not
nice to lose a job. But yeah, it
feels like it was a mask call
rather than personality. Oh,
Jack Hankey: yeah. He just
called me personally on my
mobile. Oh, it was. It wasn't
terrible on
mark ackers: but certainly, it
wasn't a personal decision to
get rid of. Yes, it was like a
mess. Yeah. So to speak.
Jack Hankey: Yeah. But it felt
personal because of the scoring.
And it felt I should have more,
I could quit my job, I wouldn't
have had to, you know, as much
as I wasn't able to do mostly we
were scaled back into doing it.
Go out selling her time. And I
hadn't done that enough. And
that was the first time
probably, I've been told you're
not good enough at this. But
that's how I felt anyway,
mark ackers: what could you have
done differently than not what
was in your control? I
Jack Hankey: don't know where
you're gonna look back. Like, I
think I didn't really understand
the product like well, actually,
my work ethic probably dipped
slightly, I was very focused on
my development at that point.
And I kind of learned lost sight
of getting out and about it was
a time just before like,
obviously, teams meetings, and
you were in the car driving
everywhere. Car was the office.
And I was like, Oh, if I didn't
have it? If not, I would supply
right. I'm gonna develop myself
today rather than picking up the
phone, which is what I used to
do. knocking on door so you
start off with that dullness and
say, I've got delivery people.
And then I say here's the
delivery. Can I have 10 minutes
your time?
mark ackers: How often do you do
that?
Jack Hankey: I did that quite a
lot. I learned that from my
first job guy called Steve
Wallace. He was like, you just
get it when I was learning
training. He was just back she'd
be full of bonuses I've ever
gone prospecting has occurred to
me. He's like, so knock on some
doors. I've got delivery from
see if they give me 10 minutes
to get the bonus even way. Wow.
mark ackers: I mean, I'm so
confident that most people that
listen to this podcast, would
never contemplate doing that.
Jack Hankey: Yeah, I wouldn't
afford it. But he showed me and
then I started doing it because
it worked. It genuinely did
work. He's gonna turn now for
like $3 I mean, people who were
speaking to their decision
makers, but they weren't
necessarily bombarded with means
at a time because again, it was
a different world.
mark ackers: So yeah, so let's
just be really clear. You just
pick some businesses that you
want to speak to. Yeah, so like
an industrial estate or
something. You'd go and buy low
doughnuts dollars or cookies.
Yeah. So wait, are we talking
Jack Hankey: Tescos are spending
too much money?
mark ackers: So that's
interesting. So like literally
do you know when you got the
pack of the raspberry jam, five
for a quick college
Jack Hankey: kind of job? And I
say during offseason we'll have
a coffee kind of thing. Yeah.
mark ackers: And literally go to
reception and say is I've got
delivery for x. Just five days
ago. extra special
Jack Hankey: show he's busy or
they're busy. But okay, just
delivery. I've got my own terms.
Give me a call at nighttime. I
tend to call you because you've
given them donuts, they would
call you. They would just say
no, I'm not interested. But you
still get a call he was looking
at I mean, it was not. It was
just it was just it was a random
thing I learned. I still talk
about it today. Like obviously
talk about that I totally got an
essay and I was quite tough when
I used to go knock on doors with
boldness guys, come on, like
let's go do it.
mark ackers: So obviously that
that that proposition exists
today it was very different.
Yes, there's a few companies out
there that will allow you to
gift prospects Yes. Do you
dabble with any of that?
Jack Hankey: We did do so when I
have because obviously I've done
a few different roles that later
and I used to manage a BD team
and I had a guy who used to send
tea and biscuits to prospect and
so if you booked on for a
meeting he would send it out
premier me the mean position to
me and as let's have a coffee
and biscuits together virtually.
And he's also said like he came
up the idea on that and he also
sent as previously when you send
socks personal socks to
prospects. Bloody love socks.
Yeah, he does write about some
quirky sharks. Yeah,
Unknown: I've got parrots on
today. Well, you got just a
standard
Jack Hankey: black today. Some
Sunday.
mark ackers: So when you're like
having this difficult time, yep.
Right and you straight in it. It
feels like it's been a number of
different examples you could
talk about there. But obviously
mindset is a big thing for you.
You talk about mindset as a
tennis player. Who's where's
your mindset when you're really
struggling in sales and you've
been let go or you've lost big
deals to talk about what happens
to your mindset
Jack Hankey: probably goes up
and down a little bit, initially
pretty floored, like, so what I
used to do still would do.
There's like a crown green
balls, place opposite mouse, so
I just don't watch and just sit
in silence. Just trying to get
my thoughts together. And then I
kind of like the then I'll just
work FET side of me, ticking the
diff provide over I'm going to
be okay, kind of put on a bit of
a show. But then in the
background quietly, just try and
develop myself. I think you need
that moment me go and sit and
watch them guys play proudly in
bowls. That is like, the moment
where it's just you're on your
own I've ever got my dog with
me. I'm just on my own silence.
And you can see these guys are
arguing about their match and
stuff. I say, You know what, you
got some bad news there. Except
it be in your force. But go and
do something about it. Now.
mark ackers: A lot of that is
kind of like your recent place.
Exactly that Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I
think everyone needs that. Yeah.
Jack Hankey: Yeah. Sit on the
same bench when I do. Yeah, I've
cried there have been happy to
mark ackers: see your spot.
You've mentioned quite a few
times, like, Are you quite in
touch? Like your cry quite
easily or not? No,
Jack Hankey: don't get in touch
with my emotions. I would say
but I wouldn't say I've like a
crier. Like the probably two or
three times I can remember as an
adult. really breaking down last
year I broke down when my
granddad died. But I close my
granddad and we lost him years
ago cuz he wasn't very well but
and then have the nice always
been, it's always been me. If
I've actually shown me I'm not
really proud of situations or
breakups or anything like that.
But when it's me, I just feel as
though it's like a letdown,
maybe a letdown thing and all
that I've let myself down and
get annoyed and get a bit upset.
Have
mark ackers: you found as you've
got older and just naturally
with age matured? Yeah, in
sales, you've had less of those
moments? Or do you still put
that self pressure on yourself?
Jack Hankey: I have not really
had that many moments in the
sense of where I felt I felt
myself down at Leyton,
definitely not. But I put an
immense amount of pressure on
myself. And I remember my first
six months LA and I was waking
up thinking is this my last day?
Why? Just because I thought I
was gonna sell a patient hallway
through that just drove me.
Though there's nothing late and
late, I was able to believe
that. It was just all me I was
like, because I just had the
moment of losing the job not
being good enough. They're gonna
find me out again. I had that
mindset as I'm gonna get found
out again. Imposter syndrome.
Yeah, very much. So.
Unknown: How'd you get over
that?
Jack Hankey: passing
information. And I still have
it. I remember when I took this
job. I was convinced the brand
new managing director made a
mistake. And that's how I met
drove me though, that I need to
prove him that Yes. I have it. I
think imposter syndrome, it
actually is such a good thing
sometimes have. You can't let it
you can't drown in it. But if
you constantly like Oh, I do not
necessarily do I belong here.
But should I be doing this?
Should I be here? Can I do this?
That's a real good driver.
Because if you have that in
there, can I do this? Yeah. Can
I need to try and do I want to I
want to prove myself wrong care.
is I don't think there's
anything better than that.
mark ackers: It's always like,
harnessing a weakness. Yeah. It
is a thing. Almost everyone.
Everyone has imposters Yeah, of
course. Yeah. And it's like,
it's so good to hear you
speaking about it so openly. And
honestly. Yeah. Because anyone
that listens to this is gonna
go. I felt that way. Yep, I feel
that way. And what I love about
it is how you turn it into a
positive Yeah. And it drives you
on I just can't help but feel
this is all fueled by your
sporting background and the
coaching six o'clock in the
morning. Yeah, it's like just
that constant pushing of you not
quite sure if you're going to
make it if you're going to be
the best. You go in this out
following your dad's footsteps
is gonna give you that imposter
syndrome. Having a failure at
one company where you got let
go. I understand all of those
thoughts and feelings and can
just relate to it as I'm sure
everyone can. Yeah, I'm really
appreciate you being so open and
honest. When you offer in this
way, can you talk to
Jack Hankey: my dad like he does
an old school guy but he's, I
remember when I first told him I
was struggling and they
surprised me of how Modern he
was in his thinking about
people's mindsets, and not
necessarily mental health so
much trouble with that. But you
knew that, you know, you could
go down that slippery slope
sometimes. So yeah, speak to my
dad. Just to it's more. It's
also like, I think my dad
enjoys. He's retired now. And
he's retired. This is the third
time he's retired, come back.
And I remember the first time I
retired, immediately, I really
talked to him about work. And
you could tell him, he was like,
the sharpness was you're able to
slider. He's not old, but you
know, you're working every day.
And then you're not detail.
That's probably why I went back.
Now I talked to him pretty much
every day, tell him about my
day. I remember that every day,
on the way home from work. Or,
like, more than I've spoken this
morning, telling him you know,
going on this today and excited
looking forward to having a
chat. And he was that all make
sure you know, give me advice.
And I still just naturally so he
does. So yeah, my dad, I also
have, like, one or two really
close friends that one of them,
unfortunately, is on the other
side of the world now. But I
whenever I've like a feeling of
situation, he was a project
manager, the other guy's a
salesperson, so he gets it. So
there's probably the three
people I talked to the most.
mark ackers: And so you got your
dad, you've got your two
friends, one of which is in
sales yet. But also you've got
an external coach, haven't you?
Yes, yeah. Talk to me about your
coach.
Jack Hankey: Ian. Yeah, he's a
he's brilliant, very successful
business person throughout the
years. Why we like what he's
got. So you're normally young
people who run business
sometimes maybe not sales
background, but he worked his
way up for business in sales. I
tasked him as my therapist,
right, by I am. Life I've gone
through I went through a bit of
a breakup about two years ago.
And I didn't tell him, but he
knew something was up and I
spoke to him and he said, next
hour, we're gonna just put Jack
Hankey back together. It was
brilliant. I always always be
thankful for that. Boy, but
there's time that I could be
sometimes a little bit rushed to
to action. He's really helped me
like understand feedback loops
made me much more mature. You
know, I couldn't I wouldn't be
in a position I'm in today. If
it wasn't for the support he's
given me because it's nice to
have someone who you know, I've
got Brian and Jimmy and all on
Swifty etc. We can lean on for
advice. That's very much late
and centric advice. This is
completely just this. He calls
it. Operation Jack Hankey. This
is Jack hankies world. Let's do it.
mark ackers: So I love that just
for the listener, Brian Swifty
and Jimmy are senior people in
your current business. Yeah,
your coach and external to
external to the business. And
has your coach done a similar
role to yours before it had
success in it?
Jack Hankey: I think he's been
like a sales director and
managing director with various
different companies hasn't done
the sales development side, like
lead generation. So, you know,
sometimes I'll be saying
something to him. He's like, he
used to explain that. Yeah, what
that means. But at the end of
the day that I one thing I took
from him is how to basically
build a function. When I took
this job I've just all I've ever
done was manage maximum of seven
people in my team salespeople.
So then taking over department,
a really important department as
well, later. Now, this is where
we, you know, really breed our
future talent. Sounds
mark ackers: like, here's the
key thing. Yeah, they've walked
in your shoes. Yeah. Yeah.
Right. And they're external to
the business. Yeah. So I suppose
my question to you is like, How
helpful is that been? Yeah,
feels like it's been
instrumental. Let's just pick up
on you've almost said like, I
wouldn't be where I was today.
Yes. If it wasn't for my coach.
Yeah. How so?
Jack Hankey: Yeah. So it'll be
like, like I say, I've never
really had experience of like
managing the power, but
understanding and what I'm
saying now is, he told me this
one thing about how to breed to
basically get results from a
department. And it was cool. It
was like a, an equation, and I
call it obey. So he's been
obsessed with behaviors,
activity environment, that's all
you need to worry about, and
that will equal results. So I
kind of like as soon as I
started the job all I would talk
about gold, I would annoy people
in the office. That add up point
once I started getting it, it
kind of clicked to me that I'm
going to learn a ridiculous
amount of Misko but I obey thing
behaviors, activity environment,
can use it and anything. If you
create if you get people with
the right behaviors, doing the
right amount of activity and you
can create an environment that
they can flourish in.
mark ackers: We're going to fly,
how often you speak with your
coach once
Jack Hankey: a month, four to
five weeks
mark ackers: and Here's the
thing you'll know this not a
latent later, I got an amazing
coaching program. Obviously we
were very good in terms of like
the professional sales that
you've obviously met hundreds if
not 1000s of salespeople. Yeah,
most don't have a coach. No.
What do you think about that?
Jack Hankey: Years and years
ago, I would be like, Why? No,
no, why not? My job we have one
I'm very much of the opinion
selling is it's an art, it's a
skill. I would be a strong
advocate my guest to be an
optional university who's going
to learn how to sell because
there's psychology around it.
understanding people's
biosimilars loads you can make
you can become a bit of a nerd
and get out into Kenya. So, when
you don't have someone trying to
better you like any part life,
not just sales, but any part of
life, if you can, you see people
are personal trainers, and
you're doing it because they're
the expert, they don't want to
do it. I'm not saying the coach
is the expert. But it's nine
times out of 10 is someone who's
maybe been in your shoes DuNay
experience, they can help you
get away from making mistakes.
But don't get me wrong, I think
people need to make mistakes,
people need to fail, because
that's the best way you can
learn personally. But you can't
always fail and make mistakes
and pick up the pieces, you
know, you need some guidance. So
like five, get my team never
make them want to make a
decision. And I'd say Would it
bother me? Let's just bounce
ideas off. Whenever I want to
make a change. I also see new
people in my department. I'm
thinking about this. What do we
do? And then it's twofold. To
reason to do it is number one.
Just to get some extra ideas,
make sure I'm thinking about but
it's automatically getting buy
in from them. If a few ideas in
this plan.
mark ackers: How important do
you think it is that your coach
is external to the business?
Jack Hankey: Yeah, I think
that's that's a that's a big
one. Because I can actually talk
to him, about me with anything
to do with later. It's about
what I need to do to develop.
And he's not giving me answers
to make me better because he
wants better results. He's
making me better. Now, by the
way, I'm not saying that, you
know, the nicest 50 around do
that. Don't. But he's still late
like I coach, I'd say I coach,
all my team. Not regularly. But
like just in general. We're
having chats, I feel like we're
coaching. I'm quoting him
because giving them advice.
We're talking about bouncing
ideas off each other, no real
structure to it. I've got a
couple of my guys, obviously on
board with yourselves, and death
and dislike, they're coming out
of it going really, really
enjoyed that chat, because it
just gave me a different
perspective. That yeah, Jackie
can teach you that. But he was
just talking to me or she was
just talking to me about this.
And you just opened up. I think
you get banned because he didn't
know he's just all about that.
So yeah, it makes a big
difference.
mark ackers: How honest are you
with your coach?
Jack Hankey: are probably too
honest. Yeah, to to be honest.
Yeah, totally. Obviously. I told
him about Yeah, I was engaged
and we broke up. So like, I
spoke to him about that. I've
never met him. I've only met him
on teams. But I feel I can tell
him pretty much anything I treat
my head. He's my therapist,
mark ackers: it feels like
obviously, you cover both
professional and personal coach.
And that obviously gives them a
full version of you. And imagine
a world where for whatever
reason, that was all taken away.
Coaching program wasn't provided
you didn't have access to a
coach. Yeah. What would you do?
Jack Hankey: Put a lead on
family and friends again, quite
a lot. I would you know, I was
before I only had a vote, we
started having a coach in the
last two years. Before that,
YouTube was my best friend.
mark ackers: Would you go and
get your own coach? If you're if
you're if your company stopped
providing the coaching?
Jack Hankey: Yes, and no. I
think that one is so distinct.
So yes, I would want one. And I
would want to go and get what I
would happily pay for the no
side of it. I will want to pick
on God, I would want someone to
like that. Well, that's similar
to what you guys do you sit
down, you analyze the person,
and they go out and eat dinner
free buffets you. Yeah, that's
what I would rather do it that
way rather than me thinking
about who do I want or like that
person, because then I might be
in all of them a little bit too
much, or I might not want to
open up and I might not want to
tell them about my mistakes, or
something like this profile fits
you because of you like this,
your mindsets there. Your
behaviors are that this is the
right profile for you to work
with. I wouldn't want any bias
on my side. Right? So what I
liked, so,
mark ackers: okay, so what I'm
hearing there is if you lost
your coaching program, you would
want to coach your ambassador,
but you'd want to help finding
the right ones. You wouldn't
want to make a mistake. Yeah, I
get that. So I feel like there's
loads more we can ask but let's
talk about your current role
then. Yeah, you are a coach on
you. Right as well. You
obviously you're the manager,
the team that you're also Coach
talks about how all the coaching
you've had sport, personal
professional, from your dad from
your friends from your current
coach. Yeah. How has that shaped
who you are as a coach?
Jack Hankey: Oh, good question.
I think from my side, it's a
trap, I try to be a bit of a
Frankenstein with it. So I think
I've said it before, I like to
think I'm the culture can be
coached. Right? That is me. So
that doesn't mean. So when I go
and work with the guys, I'll
lean on them a lot to what they
want, our culture was very
differently. And my coaching
style now is very different to
what it was three or four, three
years ago. Now it's very much
personable, talk to me very
conversational, structured
around helping them really
analyzed, like data and all that
not really selling stuff,
because these guys are managing
managers now. So it's talking to
him about how they deal with
people problems and things very
different. When I was actually
coaching the guy, I would do
very structured two or three
sessions a week on, I would
teach you three sessions a week,
the first session would always
be something that I'd come up
with, like a random idea, and
watch a YouTube audit or
something. And I always say you
have a qualifier in a qualifier
out, either one or two is a
success. Because if I've talked
showed you something, it doesn't
resonate with you, at least
you're not going to waste your
time trying to learn how to do
that, you know, it's not going
to resonate with you can take it
off your list and move on.
Because not every not every
salesperson to say. So, yeah,
I'd say I'm a Frankenstein, I
can coach very stiff. I like to
really understand my people. I'm
quite like, obviously, we spoke
about that like to personal
side. It's I don't know what I
don't know. So if I'm having a
problem, and I'm struggling, but
not telling me like they will
tend to tell me now but let me
first start by letting people
know that open.
mark ackers: I'm sure you can
appreciate why though. Someone
would struggle to own up to you
as the boss. Yeah, versus why
you would be too honest with
your external coach. And that
can always be quite difficult.
Yeah. If you've used the term
Frankenstein, so Frankenstein's
monster, putting together all
the best policies, if you were
to put together the perfect
Coach, what attributes do you
think the best coach needs and
maybe try and take stuff from
the coaches you've had? Yeah.
Jack Hankey: Empathy, like
emotional intelligence, that
definitely the biggest ones. A
real good understanding of the
person you're dealing with. And
something to add value to add.
Like, there's plenty of coaches
who think they're torturous, but
they're added nothing. They just
say ner. Like, so actually being
able to add value. And the value
is like in a sale, you're not
gonna go and sell something to
someone, or just tell them that
they need it, you're gonna ask
them questions you're gonna get
understand what their problems
are and what they need. And
where, you know, you have a
ridiculous amount of discovery
questions. And then you give
them you ever say to them,
right, we can do this to help
you, we can do this to help you
don't just go, oh, we stopped
wanting a one size fits all kind
of thing. So it's about really
getting to understand and kind
of selling and asking the
questions that you need to go.
So yeah, emotional intelligence
and fee, and then a real
interest in the person.
mark ackers: And when we talk
about real interest, this brings
me back to what I was asking you
right at the very beginning
about the coach and they care
about you. Yeah. It's very
different when you're the
manager. Like you, you do care
about those people because
you've got a goal. Yes. You need
them to hit their goal. Yeah.
How do you manage that in the
sense of when you're speaking
with your external coach? Yeah,
it's operation Jack Hankey. Yes.
When you're coaching an
individual in your business,
there's operation, whatever
their name is, yeah. There's
also the business goals to hear.
How do you how do you balance
that?
Jack Hankey: From my side, the
operation excellent. I use his
name kale. Kale as a priority.
But I, I would like to I look at
my departments i for many
business trades, people first
results second. Because if you
go for results, first people
will show because the Biden's
not about them get burnt out.
Because I saw you talking about
if you've made sure you put in
the environment for your people
first and making sure everyone's
happy. They're enjoying
themselves. They're learning
they're developing the results
cool results probably 10 times
better as well. Not 10 times
larger. So yeah, I benefited by
just focusing on the people. So
mark ackers: I love that answer.
But sales also results
businesses and we live at
quarter to quarter. Yeah, month
to month. I suppose there is
still that balancing act like if
your team will miss target for
three months in a row but you're
saying yeah, but they're all
really happy. Yeah,
Jack Hankey: we did when I
started. I was also bad when I
started in this job. How that
they weren't great when I took
them the department And the
first few months, I didn't want
to do anything. And what I mean
by that I wanted to silently
observe the department, I didn't
want to come in and tear it
apart. I needed to get by it. I
wanted to make sure I knew
everything around the
department. And it was also a
good, and I was getting calls
for like, are you going to
change something here? Like it's
not working? And then not
literally overnight? It was it
was a planned approach. But it
felt like overnight for people
that weren't right, this is what
we're doing this. So we're gonna
do it. Let's go. Here's the
tools, let's work together.
mark ackers: Let's get into
that. Yeah, what what was the,
this is what we're doing.
Jack Hankey: So I wanted to push
on. So how we worked as a
business late and like the sales
development function was purely
lead generation. That's why they
saw themselves. I've worked in
the last 16 to 18 months a
spouse of we are revenue
generator, we're revenue
generating business, what we
need to do. So getting switching
people's mindset, rather than
getting a conversation started,
it's getting a conversation
started with a potential client,
who's going to yield revenue for
the business. And that's what
we're talking about. So if
you're setting up a meeting for
business developer score,
attend, you got to be proud and
taught our business. This is
what I think the most, when this
is what I think they do with
potentially help. And that was a
big switch, because like we
would do, you know, they would
get paid. And I don't know, it's
bad. And like, for me, certainly
we're getting paid and like a 10
or 15 minute conversation
classes meet attended by most
will get paid on, am I so I
didn't change commission
structure to sort of get paid on
revenue. Now, you still get paid
on the generating. But a large
portion is on the revenue
number. So it's completely
changed, right? Like say it's
the training camp, I call it the
training camp, because I want
these people to be to have a
career in sales. Doesn't
necessarily mean people can have
career doing SDRs and stuff like
that. But most of them are,
these guys we've got a lot of
them are really early 20s,
trying to carve out a career. So
we need to we've got a great
opportunity here when it's still
in real high end learner mode,
to teach them how to do his job
get our skill sets before, for
me, it could be a degree he
sells it at the amount of sort
of intricacies on so that some
of the key changes are made,
made a couple of behavioral
changes. The environment it was
it was tough. It was like it was
like a boiler room department
wasn't nice. As in you just have
you know, it's like we've been
on the phones is hard. During a
bad day, it's hard to pick up
that phone. So we need to create
an environment where we make it
fun night today in Manchester.
They're doing a activity day, I
won't tell you what it's called.
But it's a fun name. And all the
best emits a bitter, early leaf
incentive day or something like
that. So one of our managers is
moving to London. And the
obvious thing I don't want to
do, it's called Mr. Better. This
way, it's a Manchester thing
that goes over my head. I'm too
old to understand what they're
talking about after time. And
only got it. Yeah, it's strange.
But that's a fun day, and
everyone's involved. And then
you know, everyone's got to go
for a drink afterwards.
Together. We've got a bar booked
out from not not too crazy over
time and makes it fun. But doing
the same job today as it did
every day. But bottom line is
everyone's laughing and enjoying
the job in the office.
mark ackers: And that goes back
to what your coach used to do
create an environment for you
making it fun and make it
enjoyable got gold here. Yeah,
but let's have fun along the
way. Because this is this is
really hard.
Jack Hankey: Yeah. And we do
like last week we did a national
court day. So like Glasgow
versus Manchester versus London.
That really gets them fired up
about this. You don't really
need to do I run the last one a
couple of those. Well, actually
the one before that I did or is
on the when the Australian Open
was on so obviously I did a tiny
screen recording. And it's just
there's nothing special. It was
just a thing, but everyone was
like got angry if they lost. And
yeah, and we also have like, we
call it a World Cup. So then 60
STRS Oh, no, no, no, they create
a World Cup. So I've groups of
four play
mark ackers: home in a way
that's already they will get a
team or they are a team.
Jack Hankey: Yeah. And then it's
not like people get like there
was we don't always happen to
happen for the last two years
for over two years. Now. The
semi final always like there's
always a bad decision or dodgy
decision I need to really think
about like because it's too
close because obviously it
started who gets the most beat
means books and all that sort of
stuff. It's that old school SDR
in his phone. It was only for a
month and it all always comes
down with a tie. And then it's
like milliseconds in my how much
people spend on the phone that
day. I remember last year I ran
the numbers three times your
three different results. Like
one person won't any other
person one and then it was like
a tie. And I was like, What am I
gonna do there? I nearly did a
penny shoe, which is a the whole
department on a call and then
see people after ring finger
ring five numbers.
mark ackers: This needs to be
recorded and put on YouTube.
Jack Hankey: I'd well I didn't
do it because it was actually I
think it was like World Mental
Health Day. So as far as mental
health, so I just had to make a
decision.
mark ackers: Bloody hell. Yeah.
Okay. Let's imagine someone's
listen to this podcast. Yeah.
You're there. That'd be nice.
Yeah. You're there Paddy. Yeah,
I've had that realization that
I'm crap. Yeah. What's the
advice?
Jack Hankey: Be a sponge be
open? Don't just because you
crap doesn't mean you always
gonna be crap. Like, get it
ahead. Like everyone's never
gonna start slow. You can talk
when he was a baby obviously
couldn't walk in. But you learn
naturally as people. We do want
to learn, especially I do think
people get in sales. Like
there's a stigma, right? You're
in sales, you can't do anything
else. And I said, that's why I
did it. Now I'm I can do sales.
I look appeals or you can do
sales. It's just hard. And I
speak to people like I can do I
have to continue that job. So I
think the whole thing I don't
know if you felt this, but the
whole stigma around sales is
completely 180. Were actually
people I know it's not I don't
seem to show that white gold. a
loved one. Yeah. That's the
impression that people have of
salespeople right years ago.
Now. I think he's got one he was
out yet is
mark ackers: that is a career.
So I don't think that's true.
Actually. No, no, let me know.
So let me tell you what I think
happens to people like me and
you that are on LinkedIn. I
think our bubble changes. I
think we're now surrounded by
people in sales and the
profession. Yeah, we follow
people. I think our bubbles have
changed that make us think, oh,
sales is being respected. Yeah,
right. Yeah. But it may you went
and walked down Newcastle High
Street, and ask the average
person doesn't have to be
Newcastle. That's where we are.
Yeah, we asked average. But what
do you think of salespeople? I
think we'd get all the same
stereotypes sleaze a pusher?
Yeah. But people won't get the
type of sales that we do like
professional sales software. But
I think we can be guilty of
thinking that all our bubbles
take salaries really seriously.
Yeah. The world does. Yeah. I
think if you ask the average
person out of your bubble. Yeah,
I think all the stereotypes that
will still be there. Probably
right. Yeah. Feels like you've
done another one. Not in a
respectable career. Have you got
nieces and nephews? Yeah. If one
of them asked you or come to you
and said yeah. On key Jack.
Yeah. Think about that itself.
Would you say? Go
Jack Hankey: into it? No one
respects it now. I'd say do it.
I did. The doors are open, the
opportunities are open to what
you can learn. The reason I've
gotten sales originally was
obviously because I felt like I
couldn't do much else. But then
also as the earning potential is
there. But I will try and avoid
talking to him about that.
Because the good thing about
being able to earn more money.
The bad thing is you feel the
pressure when you don't and then
also you feel the pressure if
you miss numbers, and I suppose
it's like a double edged sword.
So I would highly recommend it.
Because look at your granddad,
look at your uncle. We've done
our way out of it. We enjoy our
jobs. You've got to have two
pretty good coaches. I
mark ackers: love that you freed
me slightly when he was like
looking at your granddad or
young lorry drivers do you think
sounds professional be proud of
them?
Jack Hankey: I'm incredibly
proud of what I do. Pretty proud
of myself being website here
today. In your first year in the
orange Jaya. But now like Yeah,
cuz I if people ask me what I
do. I kind of skirt around a
little bit more now because it's
kind of hard to explain what I
actually do. I've done on
central as you do. But I say
yeah, I'm in South, but very
straight away bank sales.
Working for tax consultants. Do
mark ackers: not feel that
though. Maybe this is my head
trash. I'm posh. I feel that if
I speak to people that say, I go
to my wife's companies do right.
And they will say what do you
do? I just say I'm in sales. I
send it it's a bit like if I'll
say someone or who's your
football team, and they go I
don't like football. You know? I
I feel like when I say Bill, I'm
in sales. I just go. I'm in
sales that I sense that. Oh,
yeah, I don't know. Don't feel
that. Yeah, I've
Jack Hankey: actually probably
felt on like dates. Okay?
Because I'm like, Oh, now I know
why you're asking all these
questions, right? Because you're
trained to do it. I get here.
When really like, I think I did
a LinkedIn video a couple years
ago about sales is just dating.
Now, Valentine's Day, something
I might smoke. Yeah, it was
good. But now like, yeah, maybe
like that instances, I don't
really go to many events. Where
I would talk to like, different
people who I'll be at the event
because I'm bad for work or
something. But yeah, feel it
when like, yeah, if you're on a
date, or something like that,
they click on or
mark ackers: she's gonna be you
sat out front agenda or the
stuff. This
Jack Hankey: is what we're gonna
go through.
mark ackers: There's two
outcomes. If you had your time
again, yeah, you go back to you
realize you need to get a job.
Yes. And you've got your time
again, what's one thing you do
differently? Not take
Jack Hankey: eight years, to
really understand what I'm
doing. Like, likely, I've only
been doing it, I don't mean,
it's a very long time. But eight
years is quite a long time to
actually get your head around
it. And so yeah, just I just
have the minds that I had when I
was 2928.
mark ackers: So what's the
quickest way you could speed
that up, then?
Jack Hankey: What do you mean?
Not take eight
mark ackers: years? Say, say you
had?
Jack Hankey: Oh, yeah. Did I
just completely switch your
mindset have it. So you're going
in there to learn you're not
going into that. So that's it.
Your job right now is in selling
jobs, learning how to sell?
mark ackers: And what's the
quickest way to learn how to
sell,
Jack Hankey: get a coach, you
know, there's plenty of content
online, get stuck into it, speak
to peers at a company. For me,
like the big thing I say, like,
you know, we're in a, we're in a
world now, where hybrid working
is a thing. I'm a fan of it. I
like the fact that people can
work from home one or two days a
week. And do you wash it, like,
for example, Saturday and
Sunday. But I stress whenever I
hire is that you need to be in
the office, and I'm first few
months, because what you're
going to learn from your peers
outweighs everything. Just
hearing on the phone, them
hearing you and phone, we have a
really good culture later than x
50 told you about I call it the
payback culture. Every single
salesperson in my department in
the whole of Leyton has been
helped by a peer in the past. So
they feel that they should pay
it back. So I call it a payback
or two steps through the whole
business. Anyone who's been
there a while you'll see them
sitting with someone who's new,
and supporting them helping
them. It's really good. Yeah,
it's a really unique I've never
worked coming back. It's very
unique, like sales is
notoriously cutthroat, every
person for himself, want to just
be number one, don't care how to
get there don't care who to push
past to get there late, and it's
celebrated. Yeah, I'd like to be
number one. But I'd like
everyone to be PASCRELL,
everyone to be smashing it.
There's still that little bit of
competitive but I've never met a
sales company like it. Love
mark ackers: that. Jack, which
brings us to the end of the
interview, I could sit here and
talk to you about loads of stuff
for a lot longer. The thing I
want you to do before you say
goodbye is you mentioned before
we started recording that you've
seen some of the previous guests
and the podcast is there. And if
there is I want you to look at
your camera there. And I want
you to basically invite someone
on someone that you would love
to hear their story of how they
used to be crap, it's ours. And
join me on the podcast. So take
your time. If you think too long
without that bit out. Yeah, when
you're ready, if you could just
look down that camera and invite
someone who's podcast. Just tell
him, why don't you come on?
Jack Hankey: So I'm going to
nominate Well, Baron, so Well,
Jackie, a finish would come on
the podcast, it'd be really
interesting to understand your
story, how you got to where you
have your content has massively
helped me in my career. So be
nice to hear your story. Jack,
mark ackers: thanks so much for
not only making the effort to
come up to the studios and sit
in the chairs, but just for what
has been just an amazing
conversation. Really bought
something to it. It's quite
different to the other podcast
and I always love the sport
analogy and the coaching and
sport analogy and how that
translate into sales. But you've
just been so open so honest and
really embraced that we could
all sit here and we could sit
here that a podcast about how
successful you've been. Yeah,
but we could have done it. But
no one really learns from that.
You've you've embraced that I
used to be crappy sales podcast
really been honest. And it's
made for a great listen. Thanks
very much. Thank
Jack Hankey: you enjoyed it.