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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
6 Seasons of A Man’s Life: Part 3
00:15
Jesse, name that song.
00:29
And now, on the top 40 charts last week, just kidding. Go sit and tell them we forgot the name of it. I have no idea. OK, yes. You showed it to me like a couple of months ago. OK, well, no, this is different than the one I. I would say different one. It's different. OK, well, you, my friend, need to go watch the Lord of the Rings series once again. This is the coronation song of Aragorn.
00:56
Oh, then he, you know, finally at the end. Sorry. Spoiler alert. Finally at the end when Aragorn is crowned king. It's not what he said. No, sorry. It's kind of part of the story. When he is finally crowned king, he sings this song at the end. And I thought it would be an appropriate place to start. So, Jesse, good to be with you today. Welcome back, you guys, to the podcast by Restoration Project.
01:24
Chris Bruno here with my friend Jesse French, and we are talking about the six seasons of a man's life. And previous episodes, we've talked about the first four. We're heading into number five today, which is what I've called the restored king. And there is something that is hauntingly beautiful and wonderful, and I think all the parts of me just wanna like go to this scene in this Lord of the Rings and participate in what is happening.
01:52
when Eric Orrin gets his crown. It's just, it's beautiful. Do you remember? Okay, do you remember the scene? I do remember the scene, but it's a little foggy full confession. So. Okay. Well. The fact that I botched the song title, I need a little refresh. So. Okay. Well, yeah, I don't know that I know the song title, but it's like. Whatever. You have it too. I'm sure you have it too. This is like, this is like. I will not be singing this in karaoke. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so.
02:21
we're talking about the seasons of a man's life. And today we come to number five, which is that restored king. And the first four are innocent boy, the phallic man, then we have the zealous warrior, then we have the wounded man. And now we have the restored king. In the last episode, we talked about like the warrior needs to know that he matters. And then the wounded man is that the warrior now needs to know that he's not God. And so God kind of brings some
02:50
brings him to this place of like, there is something, a bigger story that you're a part of. And I think you said it really well in the last conversation that we had, that something inside of him needs to be the kind of man that settles, that has a sense that you want to follow this guy because he has experienced some of the setbacks and he hasn't just hit all the wins. And he's experienced some of the setbacks and had some of that humbling experience of what it's like to be wounded in some ways. Yeah.
03:19
And so then out from the ashes comes the restored king. Out from the ashes comes the restored king. So one of the phrases that you use in the book that I love when you're talking about the restored king and again, the connection to the previous stage of the wounded man is you say you say that he does rise from the ashes, but it is not because he pushed his way through or redoubled his efforts to get back to the battlefield.
03:49
but instead he has come to a more centered place within himself. Yes. I love that language and I love this countering of the natural inclination to just redouble our efforts and more armor, like get better weapons, whatever the metaphor is to go back to the battlefield, to that same lens. Actually you're saying, no, that the rising from the ashes is not based in that. That is, it is actually a.
04:17
coming to a more centered place within himself. Say more about that. Oh, yeah, well, there have been plenty of seasons in my life where I have just redoubled my efforts. It's just like, oh, well, that didn't work. Okay, I'm gonna go from this angle, or that didn't work, I'm gonna try something else, or screw that, like, I'm out, I'm gonna go do something else, kind of a thing. And I think what ends up happening is that if somebody,
04:46
If the restored king is not, if he's still trying to redouble his efforts, I'll put it this way, then he either ends up being petulant or a tyrant. Yeah, and like he's sitting on the throne, he's got all the power and he's got a lot like, oh, whatever, but he's petulant like, this will never work. Why don't people like me? I'm like, I'm the king here, right? I'm the one that they should be listening to. Why aren't you listening to, kids, why don't you obey me? Why don't you trust me? Why don't you like,
05:16
There's a petulance that starts to happen inside of him. That's like, hold on a minute, people, I'm the king here and you should be obeying me, like that kind of thing. Yeah, which is like in response to some of the challenge and some of the discord, right? Or some of the disappointment or failure, right? That it is one of petulance, not one of like, hey, this is, I have actually walked through some of the failure of the wounding. Yeah, it's the petulance is not accepting the fact that you failed. Yeah.
05:44
the petulances that you failed because you didn't obey me. Right. So right. He's outsourcing the failure and not owning the fact that like, holy cow, who put this mud here? Right. Why is my face in the mud? Who put the mud here? No, actually like you fell. Right. Kind of a thing. So, or he becomes a tyrant in just the sense of like, I'm going to obliterate anybody.
06:11
who doesn't follow me or hold, you know, or do what I say, you know, those kinds of things. He becomes this just awful kind of person and we don't wanna follow him. I'll say there's one other third option and that is that he doesn't actually ascend or take any throne. He stays in the mud. It's just like, well, I guess this is my life. I guess I'll never matter. I guess this, you know, I have nothing.
06:41
This is just how God is. You know, praise God, I'll just be a humble servant. Like all of that, like that kind of withering happens. So I see so many guys that are kind of stuck in that wounded man because they haven't addressed the pieces that need to be addressed there in order to become this restored king. Yeah. And this one feels like maybe the hardest transition or certainly a really hard transition, right, of.
07:09
Like we were saying previously, everything in us wants to get out of the mud. Like, can this end? This is, this is brutal. This is painful. This is humiliating. And yet it feels like some of the mystery, right? As we think about the gospel of resurrection of like, Hey, we don't drive that process. We participate, but we are not the ones that actually force and can create the arrival into the restored King space. And so, yeah.
07:36
feels like a really, really tricky space to be able to navigate and choose to be in, to not rush, to not rush, to not force, to not deny, to not try to, you know, I think I just love how you just brought the resurrection in there. Like what we're talking about in the wounded man season is the time in the grave. Yeah. Right. Yeah. The warrior of Jesus went to the cross. The wounded man of Jesus entered the grave and he stayed there.
08:05
for a long time. And then I love how you just said, and it was the participation, like when resurrection visited, he agreed. He joined it. He said, okay, I will emerge from the grave, but you can't force it, right? The stone has been rolled. You've got to, like, there is a season where we need to sit in the grave. And when the stone rolls away, and the invitation of God is for you to come out,
08:33
then it is to come out into, that's why I call it the restored king. He is restored. There is something about him that he still bears the scars of his wounding. But his wounds are no longer bleeding. And so he's restored. He still owns the stories that of his pain. He still knows the stories of his failure and he brings them with him to the throne. And sits down.
09:04
So that's the restored King piece and man it is hard. Yeah. What does that man, what does he look, what does his presence look like? How do others experience him when he does walk through the wounded man stage, when he does own the stories, when he does participate in the healing that Jesus wants to offer, when he does that work and is actually able to step into the place of influence that God intends for him, what does that engagement look like? Yeah.
09:33
You know, my first response, Jesse, is the word relief. And what I mean by that is that when he is the biggest man in the room, but he doesn't have to be. And so everyone else is free to be in his presence without cowering, without wondering and all that. And they know like...
09:58
He's here to guide. He's here to lead. He's here to rule. He's here to help. He's here. If he needs to, he will fight like there is still all of those previous stages are still in him. Yep. But when he walks in the room, everyone else feels a sigh of relief. Like, oh, I'm so glad he's here. So glad he's here. Well, because I need that leadership. I need that from you.
10:23
and all those younger generations and families and businesses and companies and countries, they need restored kings. They don't need petulance and they don't need tyrants and they don't need abdication. They need someone who'll show up and be a big man, but not have to be. Yeah. And I think that descriptor to me, it's such a good one. That exhale of relief that you just described. I'm wondering, as listeners are hearing this, who comes to mind? Probably people who don't come to mind are like, oh, that's very different with them.
10:52
come to mind in the opposite direction. Right. But but I think I'd love to hear your thoughts on the belief that look, God invites and intends all of us to to walk through life with him and step into the space of the restored king. The restored king is not the space reserved for the super leadership types. It's not the space only for the rah rah motivational speaker types.
11:21
It is not the space for the few or the elite. It's actually the space that all men are created to step into. Yes, yes. Every single one of us designed and invited by Jesus to reign with him. There is a co-heir with Christ. We are brothers of Christ. We have a throne that he has designed for us to sit on. And to be invited to that is both marvelous and scary.
11:51
Marvelous, right? Like it, and you just brought up a couple of good examples, you know, in most organizations, in most governments, in most businesses, like there is a leader. And I'm intentional because that leader may or may not be a king, but there is a leader. And what you just described is not, not every single one of us is designed to be a CEO.
12:21
Not every one of us is called to be the leader because the actual, and I think this is where I'd love to reframe, where is the throne? What is the throne? The throne is not of the domain, the throne is of the story. To sit down on the throne of your own life.
12:47
to sit down on the throne of your own story, to occupy, to own, to hold your value and your dignity and your beauty and your glory, to sit down in your own story. And that is, I think, what the calling of Jesus is. It's not to be the governor or the leader or the CEO, it is to be the king of your own life.
13:15
When we have men who are restored men, restored kings around us, and you are of your story and I am of my story, now we can bring our quote-unquote domains, our stories together to co-air with Christ. This is where we are collaboratively kings of our stories together with Him being the King of His.
13:46
And I am not a threat to you because I am not called to be the king of your story. And you are not called to be the king of mine. And we can collaborate together as brothers, you know, and work in the same organization like we do and maybe not with the next guy and the next guy. So that part to me is, is a really important aspect of this idea of the restored king. So just unpack a little more the phrase to sit down.
14:13
in the throne of your own story. Like I'm, those words like are. What is that doing for you? What? Yeah, there's a sense of like desire for that in ways that hasn't happened. And I think there's also the sense of like, could that be true? Like in this, this good news type of way, like could that occupation and that engagement of my own life in the way that I view
14:42
who God has made me to be, like could that be true? To sit and to live in such a way that is settled, that is strong. Yeah, that phrase, yeah, like strikes me. Yeah, yeah. I think Jesse, the thing that I would say, like what does it mean to sit down on your own story, on the throne of your own story is that all of that, I'll put it this way if we're using king analogies and metaphors, right, the domain, the territory.
15:11
that you have been given to rule is internal more than it is external. The territory that you have, that each one of us has been called to own and occupy and be familiar with, just like a king is familiar with his land, do you know the landscape of your own life? Do you know the parts of your heart, your boy, your young man, your warrior, do you know?
15:38
Like, can you occupy that kind of awareness of your own self? And I take a deep breath there because like, and be well, and allow for the sin to be forgiven and still the story of your sin to be present. The story of your glory to be, you know, to be in awe of the glory of it and to own it and...
16:07
occupy it in such a way that all of the stories get to be in this landscape. There are valleys, and there are mountains, and there are deserts, and there are swamps, and there are oases all in the landscape of my own story, and I'm familiar with those, and I can occupy that. That's what it means in that sense of being settled and content and not having to, I can fight, but I don't have to.
16:37
Yeah, yeah, that is incredibly like hopeful and disruptive, right? The phrase of the landscape that you are exercising domain is far more internal than external is it feels like this total shift of from the paradigm that that views the climbing of the career ladder, right? And all of the check marks to check as it relates to the external accomplishments as we age and are able to accomplish.
17:05
to actually attend to the internal landscape of who we are is a total flip. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm grateful because if it was external, then we live in a world of scarcity. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Now I'm a king in competition with you because now if the domain is our business, now I need to like find a way to climb the ladder over you.
17:33
or if it's a matter of importance or reputation or money, like if I have money, that means that you, you don't, like there's this sense of there's so much generosity of God that we get to be fully who we are. All of us, all of us fully who we are and sit down on this restored King throne without threatening anyone else. And so few, I just feel like so few.
18:02
men do. Yeah. Right. Like so few have actually chosen that actually chose to receive that invitation and to step into that. Well, yeah. And I would say like, let's put the word choose in the present continuous. Yes. Right. I am saved. I am being saved. I have chosen and I am still choosing. Like there is a sense that this is not a one and done. This is like, oh, there's more territory.
18:30
that I didn't know that I needed to own and I need to explore. And I need to like, oh, OK, thank you, Jesus, that you're bringing my awareness to the even greater domain that you have for me to to rule over inside my own life and story because you're never done healing me from my brokenness. And so I'm going to choose still today to serve the Lord. So, yeah, well, let's.
18:58
Let's round the corner and hit the final stage that of the sage. Tell us about that. Well, I'm not going to tell you about that because you just got to read the book. Well, figure this out. I have a buck. Yeah, I wrote a whole book. Why do you need a time pass on that? Yeah, well, briefly, that ingest, I say that. And I'm not kidding. Go buy the book. But also this.
19:25
Biblically, you guys, the season of the sage is actually what I would say in Proverbs talks about it, the crown of splendor. That this is actually the place where we want to aim in our lives. And I feel like so many of us are socialized, trained, taught, you know, even our own like internal motivations are conquer the hill.
19:51
and have the biggest whatever it is, right? The biggest ministry, the biggest bank account, the biggest body, the biggest whatever, like, you know, that we're supposed to conquer the hill, or we're supposed to rule over the biggest domain and all those kinds of things. And I feel like the sage is where we divest ourselves, not of sitting on the throne of our own lives, but we start to turn our internal awareness into now, now that that's happened for that king.
20:18
Now that I, now I can turn to this external of like, can I bring myself and my glory and all of who God has made me without the encumbrances of the warrior and the king and the phallic and all this, without those encumbrances, can I bring myself to the world? Can I bring my presence? Can I bring my experience? Can I bring my wisdom? Can I bring my, just even my subtleness?
20:44
do to the world on behalf of others. And the book's subtitle is A Man's Guide Into His Second Passage. And I feel like this is, all of these are passages that we've talked about the last couple episodes, right? Passage. This one actually is one I feel like that has the most kind of...
21:06
clarity around it, ritual around it, threshold around it. I'm not saying it's a moment, it's still a journey, it's still a threshold that you cross over the course of time. But it is a passage that I think many men don't move into. And I talk about in the book, like most, if you don't become an elder, you'll just become elderly. Yes. Yeah, like age is not the bestseller of this. No. It's not a given.
21:34
gray hair does not make you an elder or no hair. Like, it just, it is a passage, it's an intended purposed movement into the sage, into the older, wiser kind of man who then, like I said, divests himself of so many things. I think it's fascinating to me, Jesse, that so many archetypal sages are like,
22:04
unimportant and small and Yoda lives on Dagobah. Yeah. Right. And, you know, it's just like, and even when Luke becomes one, he goes off to this other like remote island. Just there's, you know, we've got John the Baptist wandering in the wilderness. We've got Moses out in, you know, for 40 years he's out nowhere. Yeah. It's the same. Or like, think about that, even in the early church history, right? Like the desert fathers of the-
22:32
desert mothers, like the true sages of the church, like the leaders of the early church, were like, hey, we're going to the desert. We are totally unattached to our importance and willing to live in very humble spaces. Yes. And I love how you just said that, unattached to our importance. Yeah. They even use the phrase, which I love, right, is this holy indifference, right? Indifference as this gift, right?
23:02
to it is actually because I know who I am and I know what is most deeply important, I can be indifferent towards talking about the divesting of some of these other things, right? There is this indifference grown. And listeners might think that means like, well, whatever. It's not apathy. It is the sense of like, I have, as I just said about the king, I fully come to own all of who I am. And therefore.
23:31
If it is this, I am well, or if it is this, I am well. And if, and this, you know, what back to what Paul talks about is, you know, whether I have plenty or I'm in want, whether I am with you or I'm a part, like these things, I can be well wherever I am. And so that holy indifference frees us to then bring the goodness that God is, the glory that he's written into the masterpiece of who we are to bear in a very different way, very settled.
23:59
and contained and relaxed kind of way. And that sage, I say that it's kind of the pinnacle of manhood because I believe actually, as I said, that the Bible talks about it this way and then the ancient cultures aimed at I want to be an elder in society. That's I want to be the wise one.
24:29
and attending to yourself in all those other stages and attending those parts of you that you left back in those other stages and got stuck in those other stages and all of that. And, you know, like all of them, all of those parts get to belong. He knows them incredibly well, and they are welcome. And they are welcome. And you said, you know, a little while ago, like, especially in the Wounded Man, like, how is it, what does it look like for us to have brothers in that space and-
24:57
and all that, and you know, one of the terms that we've used is like, who are the brothers at your table in that? I want to say that the brothers at the table of the sage are himself. The parts of himself, his phallic man, his warrior man, his wounded man, his restored king, all of those men are the men at the sage's table. They all get to belong. No one is banished. No one's banished. Yeah.
25:26
And everyone, no one's banished and everyone's been recovered. Yeah. We've gone to get them. We've gone to, you know, make sure that there's not a wounded man still with his face in the mud or some phallic man who's still addicted to porn or, you know, or shamed by it, right? There's parts of him that he's like, yeah, buddy, like I know that. And, and you are welcome to. So. As we wrap up, Chris, like.
25:56
For people that have listened to these couple episodes and it's resonated on some level, right? It feels like this wonderful, interesting dance, right? Of both the reflection back to our earlier stages. You talk about in the book, like this vision ahead and forward to what can be. And then obviously we are in the present. So what would your words be as we do wrap this up for someone that has listened to this, that has found some resonance in this idea, obviously we're in
26:24
We're in different places, right? And the concentric rings are present. But what would kind of your ending words be for someone that's listened, that's resonated with and is wanting to continue to engage this on some level? Yeah, I think back to, I think it was our first conversation about this. Be where you are. Allow for yourself to be where you are.
26:46
And I think bring some both, you know, and we talk about awareness, curiosity and kindness, bring some awareness to where you are, some curiosity to where you are and some kindness to where you are. And if you find yourself stuck, bring awareness to that, bring curiosity to that, bring kindness to that. And the beauty I think of so much of what can be done in these, in this reflection, in this conversation is, you know, you said, let's not rush to the next one, but let's let the fullness of what this one.
27:14
has to do and accomplish in me, then I will just automatically kind of just move into the next, I'll just grow, right? And do you know actually when puberty stopped?
27:31
I don't think you probably do. Right? Yeah. And do you know actually when it started? I don't think you actually do. So they're in the same way, like be where you are, own where you are and recognize where you are. And let's not worry about starting or stopping. Let's just be there and allow for all of what God has designed for this season of your life to do for you, not against you, but for you.
28:01
have his way and let him do what he's gonna do with you and partner with him in that. And if you're in a season right now as somebody listening to this and you're like, well, maybe you're in that wounded man stage and you're like, this sucks and I want out. What I would say to you is yes, it does suck and yes, you want out and so groan.
28:29
Grown with it, partner with the Spirit of God in the groaning on your behalf. And maybe you're stuck in something in your phallic stage, like groan, grieve, recognize, awareness, curiosity and kindness, and have a posture towards those aspects of your life, like, okay, I don't need to move on until I'm ready to move on. So Lord, whenever you're ready for me to move on.
28:59
Yeah, so that's kind of where I'd be. Thank you. Yeah. Awesome. Well guys, thanks for joining us. Just a quick reminder that we have an online community of men and it's called The Collective and the whole point of that is to have a group of men that are seeking to partner with God in the restorative work that he's doing in our lives. And so that looks like connecting with other men with some content and some connection around that. But it is all drive to
29:29
and built in a way to not have to walk alone through our lives. So we'd love for you to come be a part of that. Link will be in the show notes. It's one of the exciting things that we're doing, a restoration project. And come join. We'd love to have you there.