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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
[Laughter]
[Music]
[Music]
hello and welcome to the moonshots
podcast is episode 63 I'm your co-host
Mike Parsons and as always I'm joined by
the man with a plan none other than
chaton himself good evening Brooklyn
good morning Sydney now what you
listeners don't know is that Mike and I
have been powering through some
technical difficulties to get this
episode out to you but we are determined
to bring you our second show from Renee
Brown
despite fire alarms multiple microphones
technical challenges but we're here and
we've got some great content for you
yeah and look I have to thank you Chad
for bringing brené Brown to us she is
incredibly unique as an author because
she has the ability to talk about things
that we just plain-old don't want to
talk about and the previous show was
great where we looked at the gift of
imperfection which for me was really all
about the courage and the ability just
to be yourself and and just appreciate
your inner critics ah yeah dealing with
those little voices right mm-hmm so I
thought that was really insightful and
has really opened up a whole new world
of thinking for me and I'm really
excited to get into our second of three
shows that we're doing on brené Brown
Chet oh and where are we gonna go today
we're picking up her book daring greatly
which was spawned from the TED talk
which we had pulled some clips from in
the previous show but I think she went
from nobody knowing or not many people
knowing who she was to millions of
people knowing who she was exposing all
of her work and vulnerabilities out for
the world to see and we've got some
really fantastic clips around
vulnerability connection
shame and so many more the topics that I
think you're right it's just things that
is maybe not on our radars and we're you
know thinking about how to be
well-rounded entrepreneurs and
innovators well and it's interesting
because much like simon Sinek did Brene
brown talks about a lot of things that
are really important to our success both
at work and personally yet we spend so
little time really discussing and i
think she talked to me in the previous
show she talked a lot about stepping
into the arena as a metaphor for really
having purpose and trying to realize
your dreams your ambitions and you know
not ending up at the end of life wishing
you had really gone for it she's really
kind of set up this idea of stepping
into the arena really going for it and I
think daring greatly is a wonderful book
for those that have made that decision
how you can go out there and not let the
world pull you back how you can get past
the naysayers and so forth and I think
her work is so remarkable I think we
join her at this book where she's had a
very successful TED talk it's catapulted
her like onto the world stage because
nobody was daring talk about these
things yet she was willing and prepared
to do it and I look I'm really excited
about the show because I think what we
can enjoy is a whole series of clips
that take us through the origins of the
book we can explore what it means to
find connection with ourselves and with
others and what we've got is some great
clips around the ideas of worthiness and
vulnerability and if this all sounds
really really really heavy-duty I'm not
gonna lie this is pretty dense stuff but
we do have one or two funny clips
because Brenna Brown is so great at I
mean she's a bit she is quite prepared
to be self-deprecating and admit her
follies so we've got some some funny
clips as well so it's a it's a real
treat this show there's lots and lots
ahead yeah so
who better to give us an introduction
into Brunei than Oprah herself so we've
got this fantastic clip where Bernie was
invited onto Oprah's super soul Sunday
show and so yeah let's hear Oprah
introduce brunei born in San Antonio
Brene brown is a fifth generation Texan
the oldest of four Brunei was raised
with tough old-fashioned pull yourself
up by your bootstraps Texas values
it wasn't until her mid-20s that she
discovered a deep-seated passion for
teaching and after earning her
bachelor's master's in PhD she became a
professor at the University of Houston
graduate College of Social Work her
research focuses on vulnerability
courage shame
it led Brene to re-examine her own life
and gave her the strength to open up
about her own spiritual awakening in a
2010 TEDx talk a regional version of the
famous idea sharing TED conference that
spotlights innovators and thought
leaders much to burn a surprise
sharing her fears resonated with people
not just in that Texas auditorium but
around the world garnering more than
eight million views on ted.com Renee's
written three books now based on her
groundbreaking research I thought it was
just me the gifts of imperfection and
her New York Times number one bestseller
daring greatly yeah so this intro from
Oprah one's great because Bernays a
fellow Texan - she's on Oprah who if
you're new to the show go back into the
archives and you'll you'll find one of
our shows mm-hmm on that the Oprah
herself I can't remember exactly which
which show it is but it's I think it's
probably the first dozen shows we did
yeah yeah good job trying to remember
Chad oh and like we're now like 60-plus
into it and you're trying to remember
whether it was show 12 or 13 I mean
that's that's some brain power oh it was
so far oh very good
but what's fascinating to me about
grenade
her background as a sociologist and
researcher in academic when comparing
her to some of the other authors and
people that we profiled here on the show
so I think the rigor of her her research
and findings is very interesting
enhancement and we love a little bit of
rigor and getting insights in our day
jobs Chad and I really love that that
she's almost what I would call forensic
about searching for for true behaviors
that people display and sort of
unpacking them and this next clip really
takes us to the origin of the book and
here's brené Brown talking about the
role the struggle has to do in making us
in my life and a culture where we like
to fix or preventive ulnar ability brené
Brown is reviving the knowledge that our
struggles make us who we are and it's
based on data social scientific research
she conducted first into shame and then
into qualities that distinguish lives
with a strong sense of worthiness
she's frank about the resistance her own
findings awakened in her a classic
American perfectionist who wore
exhaustion as a status symbol she also
discovered a stark gulf between what we
want to be true and what is true
invulnerability between men and women
and she exquisitely uncomfortably
describes the difference between making
our children happy or raising Gauri's
engaged human beings this reminds me of
the the stoic saying you know the
obstacle is the only way or the struggle
is what Jesus who we are but the the
topics that she's talking about I think
are often the most important things that
are left unsaid whether that's like in a
founding
startup or a leadership team or even
just the team day-to-day team that you
find yourself working in because this
idea of kind of you know outsized
expectations and shame around wanting to
feel connected in others I think it goes
kind of to the root of where many
problems arise when it comes to working
together yeah and I think this is a
really good point Chad where we can talk
a little bit about why we chose brené
Brown
and the reason that authors like herself
and Simon CITIC really matter so much
and that is that we often in work
particularly talk about the skills of
what has to happen so we talk about do
you have the right technology skills can
you use the software can you get
something from A to B and so it's a very
functional utilitarian discussion about
getting the job done and we preoccupied
ourselves with best practices and ROI
and all those sorts of things but the
interesting thing is so much of the real
magic or the real disaster in a sports
team in a founding team in a family
comes down to how we treat each other
and how we feel and the craziest thing
of all chad is that the way people feel
about each other on any team construct
is the fire the engine the fuel that
will determine their success yet so
little done is done to discuss to talk
about to understand this essential thing
yet we'll talk about spreadsheets till
the cows come home it's crazy
yeah in a way it's taking care of people
as people and taking care of them
emotionally is what's going to create
sustainable growth and and beauty in the
in the teams because if you're not
addressing those kind of fundamental
emotional needs you can kind of put a
bandaid on the problem but it's not
going to sustain you in their search you
know I think that's a big reason why
people aren't stay
jobs as much as they had used to is
because they're not getting that
foundational support from the teams in
and that brings us to to the reason why
it's so important to understand the
origin of this book because I think
Bernays journey reflects a lot of what
we have all found and discovered in our
in our work path and so let's have a
listen to her now really getting into
the point at which she started this
adventure about daring greatly so I'm
excited about daring greatly and I am
excited about you talking to this
audience because you watch super-soul I
do you talking to this audience about
what it means to dare greatly this came
out of the TED talk right yeah it was
born on the TED talk and it was born of
just a dozen years of vulnerability
research uh-huh and the title itself was
a very personal moment in my life yeah
the Theodore Roosevelt quote Theodore
Roosevelt quote yes could you give us
that quote I will give you the quote I
was at the beginning of the book yeah
yeah can I tell you little bit about
what the story is yes China yeah I had
done Ted and I was everywhere all of a
sudden for the first time I was on
cnn.com I was doing on NPR interviews
and my therapist tells me don't read the
comments my husband says don't read the
comments but I read the comments Oh No
right well so one day I was reading the
comments and I was devastated
I know I've read comments before it's
just devastating how this devastating
people can yeah and they were comments
like of course she's embracing
imperfection if you were Brene brown
you'd have to what choice would you have
Oh or less research more Botox Oh
maybe you'll be worthy in twenty pounds
oh I mean these can endure Anonymous
which is yes yeah yeah yeah yeah chicken
Oh crapola I'm not gonna custard a it's
just chicken so I send Steve to work and
I send the kids to school your husband
sees my husband Steve and I stay in my
pajamas and I sit down on the couch and
I watch about 10 hours of Downton Abbey
reruns and just numb myself out I eat
some peanut butter I'm just
sad and when it was cut you read the
comics I read the comments and I was
like this is not worth it man this is
I'm not doing this anymore I can't wear
these comments posted on the Tech Talk
no no they were that's very curated
which I really appreciate yeah these
were like anonymous on news websites oh
I know rights are the worst I successful
of humanity yes right those are the work
yeah so I'm done with the Downton Abbey
and I'm like I don't want to go back to
my world where all that hurt is so I get
out my laptop and I start googling like
well what was happening in the US during
the Downton Abbey period and Theodore
Roosevelt's quote comes up because he
yes so I read it and it says it's not
the critic who counts it's not the man
who points out how the strong man
stumbles or where the doer of Deeds
could have done them better the credit
goes to the man who's actually in the
arena whose face is marred with dust and
sweat and blood who strives valiantly
and who airs and fails and sometimes
victorious but when he fails at least he
does so daring greatly and it changed my
life that moment yeah how when you hear
something in your read yeah yeah yeah
and three things happen to me in that
moment the first was that is who I want
to be I want to be courageous I want to
be daring you want to be the man in the
arena I want to be in the arena yeah
the second thing is oh my gosh this is
everything I've ever learned about
vulnerability yes it's not winning it's
not losing it's showing up and being
seen and the third thing which was
really helpful for me is from that
second that millisecond board uh-huh I
made a commitment that if you are not in
the arena getting your butt kicked on
occasion I'm not interested in your
feedback whoa
I love Varian yeah yeah and anonymous
comments you're not in the arena man
you're not in the arena put your name on
it own it if you got something
constructive to say own it and put it in
there yeah you can't Satan from me in
person yeah in front of my kids don't
say it and if you can't say it to me in
person for my kids duck cool
oh wow what a powerful powerful quake I
have never heard of this Chad have you
ever heard of it before
oh yeah it's one of my favorites I
discovered it probably not too long
before Renee really popularized it with
her TED talk and in the books I haven't
memorized it like her but yeah I think
this idea of the man or the person in
the arena is it is a fantastic I love it
I mean I'm just looking at the quote
here the credit belongs to the man who's
actually in the arena whose face is
marred by dust and sweat and blood and
who strives valiantly who errs who comes
short again and again because there is
no effort without error and shortcoming
but who does actually strive to do the
deeds I mean I could go on this is such
a powerful quote this is I mean it
really is a bit of a Braveheart moment
isn't it it just forces you am I going
to have a go am I going to step into the
arena am I gonna try and be my best or
not I think it's an amazing
encapsulation of like the entrepreneurs
innovators hero journey is it not oh
absolutely yes I mean where you face
your greatest demons and this is where I
think great sportsmen great
entrepreneurs those that have had wins
and losses really do love connecting
after their careers because I I feel
like there's a certain knowingness that
if you stepped into the arena you can
look somebody in the eye anger I know
the challenges you faced and I know the
courage that it took to step into the
arena and I think there's a certain
knowingness amongst those that have
tried those that have put themselves on
the line I feel this speaks to I mean
this is something you should just read
every morning right yeah it's definitely
a quote that I come back to quite often
or at least parts of it and I mean she
she took her her book title straight
from him yeah
and this captures the whole spirit of
the book and the the the greatest way in
which this thought affects me is that
when I face challenge and when I face
obstacles and you'll you find yourself
weighing up should I or shouldn't I
I always think about this idea of well
at the end of my time do I want to be
laying there saying I gave it everything
I tried my best I stepped into the arena
or do I want to be there saying I wish I
had had and I can tell you Chad just the
feeling of saying I wish I had tried I
wish I had dead is such like I have such
a physical response to that that's what
gets me over the line that's what stops
me from getting off track what gets me
on track is the feeling is I regardless
of my legacy I always want to know in
and off myself but I stepped into the
arena and I tried my best and watch what
brené Brown is helping us do is like you
don't want to get to the end and say I
wish I had tried a bit more no and what
we have coming up on the show or clips
that I think will speak to those of us
who maybe find ourselves on a late
flight or at the office before anyone
else shows up and it's it's those those
little voices in our head that tell us
things that get us to believe things
that maybe aren't necessarily tests for
on their own
it's those thoughts that we think like
we're the only ones that have them like
oh I'm the only one that's struggling
with this and so that's why maybe I
can't share it with someone else but
what I love about Bernays work is she's
interviewed thousands if not tens of
thousands of individuals and has
understood that it's a universal it's a
universal thing to struggle with these
issues of worthiness vulnerability
condition and and and before we kind of
get into the second half of the show
where we really get into
packing this and starting to discover
how we can better understand this and
get the the courage to step into the
arena I do want to remind everybody that
we have had some great feedback from
listeners recently and I just want to
say how much we really appreciate the
emails the reviews and so forth I have
to say that our ratings and reviews on
iTunes are off the charts and I'm very
grateful to everybody who's contributed
and I also wanted to to say that we are
very very grateful to all of you who
listen and share and reach out to us and
Chad if someone's keen to connect with
us here at the moonshots podcast where
should they go the quickest way to get
in touch is to email us at hello at
moonshots dot IO but you can also go to
moonshots dot IO find all the previous
episodes check out Oprah episode number
five there's also a contact form and you
can even get a preview of some of our
upcoming up yeah we even have like a
complete list of all of the plans and
upcoming shows so you can give your
thoughts and comments you can follow us
in any of the good old social media
you'll get us there and a special shout
out I want to call out one of our
listeners that reached out to us last
week now here's a fellow fellow
Sydneysider like myself and i'm i want
to say thank you to i'm gonna try and
pronounce this name correctly Chad you
gotta help me here I think it is huge a
fuh huge a fir from Sidney he loves the
podcast and he has been diggin not only
simon Sinek but Cal Newport
interestingly Chad how similar is the
sort of forensic nature of brené Brown
and Cal Newport like they're both these
deep academics that validate their ideas
that's kind of interesting right yeah I
think I think ranae's is the more
hardcore academic and it's very hard to
refute her body of evidence when it
comes to this show but we digress back
to Ava
and he was really interested in getting
into one of our most popular shows which
is you know just discovering your why
and he sent us lots of great feedback
and he asked us for some tips and tricks
and it was great to be able to help him
out and just great to know that we have
the listeners all over the world it's
it's such a buzz and to see that these
themes of how we make ourselves better
as not only entrepreneurs and founders
but as innovators speaks to so many
people so thank you to one and all but
now we've got an action-packed second
half of the show where we've got
worthiness and vulnerability topics all
these big stinky topics that nobody
really likes to talk about in public but
before we get into worthiness and a
vulnerability Chad where shall we go
I've learned a whole lot from Rene in
talking about some of these sticky
emotional subjects and I love how she
kind of unpacks like what leads to
different emotional states or different
emotional reactions and I found it
fascinating this connection or well yes
this connection that she makes between
shame and connection ie you know
connecting with other people and so
we've got a great clip again going back
to those voices in heads that says I'm
not good enough and maybe that's one of
the sources of our shame so where I
started was with connection because by
the time your social worker for ten
years what you realize is that
connection is why we're here it's what
gives purpose and meaning to our lives
this is this is what it's all about it
doesn't matter whether you talk to
people who work in social justice and
mental health and abuse and neglect what
we know is that connection the ability
to feel connected is neuro biologically
that's how we're wired it's why we're
here so I thought you know what I'm
going to start with connection
well you know that that situation where
you get an evaluation from your boss and
she tells you 37 things that you do
really awesome and one thing that you
can't you know an opportunity for growth
and all you can think about is that
opportunity for growth right well
apparently this is the way my work went
as well because when you ask people
about love they tell you about
heartbreak when you ask people about
belonging they'll tell you their most
excruciating experiences of being
excluded and when you ask people about
connection the stories they told me were
about disconnection
so very quickly really about six weeks
into this research I ran into this
unnamed thing that absolutely unraveled
connection in a way that I didn't
understand or had never seen and so I
pulled back out of the research and
thought I need to figure out what this
is and it turned out to be shame and
shame is really easily understood as the
fear of disconnection is there something
about me that if other people know it or
see it that I won't be worthy of
connection the things I can tell you
about it it's universal we all have it
the only people who don't experience
shame have no capacity for human empathy
or connection no one wants to talk about
it and the less you talk about it the
more you have it
what underpinned this shame this I'm not
good enough which we all know that
feeling
I'm not blank enough I'm not thin enough
rich enough beautiful and that's smart
enough promoted enough the thing that
underpinned this was excruciating
vulnerability this idea of an order for
connection to happen we have to allow
ourselves to be seen really seen and you
know how I feel about vulnerability I
hate vulnerability and so I thought this
is my chance to beat it back with my
measuring stick I'm going in I'm going
to figure this stuff out I'm gonna spend
a year I'm gonna totally deconstruct
shame I'm gonna understand how
vulnerability works and I'm gonna
outsmart it
hmmm it's so funny Chad that the idea
that Brene brown is bringing up here is
I think we all feel obliged to project
an image of confidence and that we're
indestructible but the true irony is we
do this in order to be accepted and to
be popular and to be part of something
yet what Brene is bringing to us as guys
and girls you need to be yourself you
need to be vulnerable and to share this
because it's at that point not only do
you understand yourself but that is the
greatest point of connection with others
whoa that is some heavy-duty stuff Chad
Owen yeah I mean this is what I meant
when it's like those the deep dark times
when no one else you think no one else's
is watching it's this this idea you
don't want people to see you for who you
really are
but that's not how you're going to do
your best work and be your best self and
that we can actually prevent ourselves
from connecting if we hold on to this
shame and again shame is like not a word
that maybe I had ever really thought
about and said oh well you know how
would you define shame but the fear of
disconnection I think is a very apt
definition of shame and I think it's
helped me understand again how maybe I
project a certain persona in some
situations whereas I'm I'm much more
comfortable being vulnerable and being
maybe more of my true self in other
situations yeah and and to build on that
I would just say that I think when
you're around the right people have the
courage to be yourself the good the bad
the ugly
and you will find that people have the
capacity the the right friends will have
the capacity to accept you for who you
are and see the best in you and will
love you for all of your quirks and
strange oddities and if if when people
see
the real you and it's not a good fit
well great then you just know hey
there's not there's not a fit here I'm
gonna move on let's not get too hung up
on this but I think this is really
powerful because we are so busy being
somebody else yet brené Brown is telling
us just be yourself
Olli this concept of shames also really
tied to not not only vulnerability but I
this idea of worthiness as well and all
of this you know circles around the
quote that she she led with and that you
elaborated on and repeated this idea of
getting into the arena and I think if
you had to describe what it takes to get
into the arena certainly courage would
be one of those things and so we have a
great clip from grenade talking about
you know having this courage to be
imperfect so what I did is I took all of
the interviews where I saw worthiness
where I saw people living that way and
just looked at those what do these
people have in common and I have I have
a slight office supply addiction but
it's another talk so I had a manila
notebook manila folder and I had a
sharpie and I was like what am I going
to call this research in the first words
that came to my mind were wholehearted
these are kind of wholehearted people
living from this deep sense of
worthiness so I wrote at the top of the
manila folder and I started looking at
the data in fact I did it first in this
very full in a Ford a very intensive
data analysis where I went back pulled
these interviews pulled the stories
pulled the incidents what's the what's
the theme what's the pattern my husband
left town with the kids because I always
go into this kind of Jackson Pollock
crazy thing where I'm just like writing
and going and kind of just in my
researcher mode and so here's what I
found what they had in common was a
sense of courage and I want to separate
courage and bravery for you for a minute
courage the original definition of
courage when it first came into the
English language it's from the Latin
word curve
meaning heart and the original
definition was to tell the story of who
you are with your whole heart and so
these folks had very simply the courage
to be imperfect they had the compassion
to be kind to themselves first and then
to others because as it turns out we
can't practice compassion with other
people if we can't treat ourselves
kindly and the last was they had
connection and this was the hard part
as a result of authenticity they were
willing to let go of who they thought
they should be in order to be who they
were which is you have to absolutely do
that for connection the other thing that
they had in common was this they fully
embraced vulnerability they believed
that what made them vulnerable made them
beautiful they didn't talk about
vulnerability being comfortable nor did
they really talked about it being
excruciating as I had heard earlier in
the shame interviewing they just talked
about it being necessary they talked
about the willingness to say I love you
first the willingness to do something
where there are no guarantees the
willingness to breathe through waiting
for the doctor to call after your
mammogram the willing to invest in a
relationship that may or may not work
out they thought this was fundamental
hooha said Owen the courage to be
imperfect there there is a lot to say
inside of this when you hear this in
this kind of pursuit of worthiness and
finding the courage to be imperfect how
do you how do you start with your
relationship to this idea like what
comes to mind first when you hear her
speaking I think I think we're speaking
to me and
I would guess with much of our audience
as well as this concept of being kind to
yourself first so that you can be kind
and compassionate others is building on
this idea from the last show we are our
own worst critics getting beyond that
can be very hard sometimes and it can
kind of blind us to you know celebrating
our true successes and celebrating the
things that are working the the things
about us that are good and positive and
so I think for me it's just being
reminded to take this take some time to
pause and reflect and be kind to
yourself first and that that will pay
dividends in in all their relationships
and connections with others it's funny
isn't it that so much of the the way in
which we connect and interact with the
world around us starts with ourselves
and in fact the third book that we're
going to cover in Brene series braving
the wilderness is all about connecting
with yourself so you can connect with
others so you can see there's a nice
story arc of the three books we've
covered we've got the gift of
imperfection which is really about
coming to terms with yourself daring
greatly is getting that that individual
that self to take a step into the arena
in the third one this braving the
wilderness book is really all about
relating to the world and the people
around you your community if you will so
quite I mean this there's as I've said
there's so much in that I just I just
love the fact that the challenge she's
giving us in that clip was look have the
courage to accept that you're imperfect
have the the capacity to find that in
yourself first almost forgive yourself
first so you can go out into the world
and when you go out into the world
that's where you go and step into the
arena get things done it and sometimes
we need to check in and get someone's
point of view maybe get some support or
some advice some counsel and job we've
we've got a great clip coming up
on on that and this is the idea of
vulnerability but but before we get
there Ted
before we go to being vulnerable towards
others do you how do you think taking on
board what Brandeis and what advice do
we have for each other and our listeners
about the courage to be imperfect about
the capacity for us to be worthy for
ourselves first
well here I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna
put our money where was it at money
where you mouth ease I'm I'm gonna put
money where the mouth where my mouth is
because I think you and I are actually
working on this as soon as laughs in
terms of when we're checking in with one
another in our work just pausing in in
in asking one another you know how are
you
not as how's the work going how can I
help but how are you and I think that
just because you had asked me that we
had a much more meaningful conversation
that I think is going to be much more
helpful for us going forward not only in
our work but in our working relationship
and going going forward
and so I mean I I think I experienced
the power of vulnerability just in our
conversation last night and it was
really just simply taking a moment to
acknowledge one another in our for lack
of a better way of describing it like
our emotional news date and our
emotional needs and you know where we're
struggling in that and and how we can
support one another in that way I think
yeah just like the power of the check-in
I guess is sorta yeah and know and maybe
you know what you're getting too is like
let's ask ourselves and our dearest
friends how are you and give them
permission to say you know what not so
great
because how often do we get into like
auto-response yeah great awesome
fantastic really busy you know the stock
standard answer like create time and
space for people and maybe even create
time space for yourself to actually say
you know what this thing
fine this thing's good but this other
thing stinks it causes me anxiety
because it's me stress I'm disappointed
I'm frustrated I'm angry whatever is the
appropriate way like create the space
and and be crazy we have to lead in
conversations with others around us by
sharing first I mean that's classic
parenting tip if you want your kids to
talk to you more about what's happening
in their lives start by talking about
your day and perhaps in this case we
need to start making ourselves
vulnerable not only to ourselves but to
those around us to help them be
vulnerable in return yeah but Mike like
I just want to feel better and I want to
write so like give me giving the
shortlist and I'll go and buy all the
ingredients and and and this next clip
chad is totally that this is Brene brown
talking about her own personal journey
in the fact that she is an author on
vulnerability and worthiness and courage
and all these great topics it's not that
she's perfect and she's quite ready to
admit that so off she went she's she's
you know clinically trained as a
psychologist and you can go to a
psychologist for psychologists and this
is her personal story it's it's pretty
hilarious but also I think we all fall
victim of it okay yeah I know I've got
some problem just just tell me what the
answer is but the truth really is we
need to go and find it so let's have a
listen to brené Brown talking about her
journey into vulnerability so I found a
therapist my first meeting with her
Diana I brought in my list of the way
the wholehearted live and I sat down and
she said you know how are you and I said
I'm great you know I'm okay and she said
what's going on and I said and this is a
therapist who sees therapists because we
have to go to those because they're BS
meters or good
and so I said here's the thing I'm
struggling and she said what's the
struggle and I said well I have a
vulnerability issue and you know and I
know that vulnerability is kind of the
core of shame and fear and our struggle
for worthiness but it appears that it's
also the birthplace of joy of creativity
of belonging of love and I I think I
have a problem and I just I need some
help and I said but here's the thing
no family stuff no childhood I just
I just need some strategies
thank you so she goes like this
and then I said it's bad right
she said it's neither good nor bad it
just is what it is and I said oh my god
this is gonna suck and it did and it
didn't and it took about a year and you
know how there are people that like when
they realize that vulnerability and
tenderness are important that they kind
of surrender and walk into it a that's
not me and B I don't even hang out with
people like that for me it was a
year-long street fight it was a slugfest
vulnerability pushed I push back I lost
the fight but probably won my life back
and so then I went back into the
research and spent the next couple of
years really trying to understand what
they the wholehearted what the choices
they were making and and what what is
what what are we doing with
vulnerability why do we struggle with it
so much am I alone and struggling with
vulnerability No
so she didn't get her strategy it sounds
like it worked out and yes she had to
work it a little bit higher but it's
it's so great to have her share that
even she struggles with the owned her
own topic of expertise I mean the irony
is so so very thick but it is so
important that what she presents to us
there is how prescriptive we can be of
the solutions for things like this but
we so often underestimate the the
immensity of our emotional state when we
talk about shame and worthiness
vulnerability and the courage to be
ourselves the courage to try and be the
best version of ourselves the the the
challenge to help others be their best I
mean this stuff is is so we're so
there's so little language there's so
little standards for talking about this
compared to best practices of you know
generally accepted accounting principles
you know it's it's it's like oh my gosh
well we've all got the training wheels
on with this kind of stuff don't you
think that yeah what I'm taking away
here is like vulnerability is just about
putting yourself out there and so here
she is someone who's trained it's like
maybe I should go and talk to a
therapist about this so that I can
understand
vulnerability not only my research but
how it relates to me and my own life and
she says that it won her life back so
you know clearly there were some things
that were going unaddressed with her and
where even though she steeped these
things all day long getting that outside
perspective and and third-party counsel
was was very empowering mmm it was and
it shows you that if she needs a little
help along the way however we find our
help
you know we should be open to it and if
you imagine Chad that one of our
listeners is listening to this and
saying you know I really do want to step
in the arena but I'm I'm really
struggling with like feeling very
vulnerable here I'm not sure if I'm
worthy I don't want to be
ejected for my failure what what sort of
things do you think we can all do in
finding our own source of guidance and
help when we want to do that I mean
obviously read this book sounds like a
good start but but what are some of the
practical things you think we can adopt
as practices as we go on this journey
Jen I think we have to start small so
don't sign up for a TED talk as your
first moments of sharing sharing your
vulnerabilities that sounds like like a
recipe for disaster
but I would I would encourage all of us
to pick a partner it can be your life
partner it could be a business partner
it could be a team member or a sibling
or a family member
pick someone I think that you make this
small commitment to start sharing some
of these feelings around connection and
shame and vulnerability and I think
going back and forth you'll understand
that it's maybe not so hard to do and
you'll start to see some of the benefits
and then maybe you can do it in the team
context or even in the company context
or you can do it in the family context
but I think starting small is probably
the best way to tackle this and of
course you can always seek out a
therapist and and do talk therapy I'm a
big believer in it and so yeah I think
you know we saw this Ted what about just
writing down that little voice in the
back of your mind like having the
courage to start writing down what that
thought is ah that's that's even easier
right because then you can burn like you
know that I find writing like a like
it's just such a great medicine for so
many things going on in my head I'm
gonna steal I'm gonna steal your
journaling idea mica yeah super super
well listen we've got one more clip Chad
and we're sort of now getting into what
we have to
do what's required of what what's the
context of daring to be great stepping
into the arena and as Steph Curry kind
of says being the best version of
ourselves so I think it might be time to
dig into this last brené Brown clip and
it's really going after this question of
what is it what is daring greatly mean
what is what does it look like what does
it feel like and how might we like to
think about it so let's get into this
inspiring little clip of brené Brown
answering the question what does daring
greatly mean so what does it mean then
to dare greatly to me it means the
courage to be vulnerable it means to
show up and be seen to ask for what you
need to talk about how you're feeling to
have the hard conversations you know
when we asked people in the research you
know what is vulnerability to you and
let me tell you I was raised that
vulnerability is equally is weakness
right most people yeah yeah like that
was those people think vulnerability is
weak right and you know what after
reading Darren Greg Lee what I realized
and and and the gifts of imperfection
what I realized first of all is I live
in the space of vulnerability and that
is what has made me so successful is my
vulnerability with the audience and I
think that vulnerability is sort of the
cornerstone of confidence I think it's
the cornerstone because I believe that
because unless you can allow yourself to
take the risk to be open to live as a
whole hearted person when you can do
that you recognize that you're really
just like everybody else
and that gives you the confidence to be
yourself which is all you really need in
life is to be more of yourself and I do
believe you know coming from
vulnerability is weakness when we ask
people what is vulnerability and they
said things to us like the first date
after my divorce
trying to get pregnant after my third
miscarriage sitting with my wife who has
Stage four breast cancer making plans
for our young children
you know the biggest examples that came
up from the research was picking up the
phone and making a call to someone who's
just had a great loss oh yes you and I
thought about that in my own life like
you know there's the phone I walk up to
it I'm like what am I gonna say what am
I going to say that's what everybody
fears it's gonna make it better yeah
nothing I can say except I'm here I'm
hurting with you you're not alone but
you and I'll call in the hour
mm-hmm and then I come back in and I'm
like ah manse dinnertime on the Baker
Castle I'm gonna make it all done so
we're all done right yeah and then what
happens when an hour turns into a day
turns into a week you know it's a month
later and you run into that friend at
the grocery store well you know what I'm
caught just to show up that's all people
want yes it is for you to show up and
say I don't know what to say but I'm
here I can't fix this yeah but I'll walk
through the pain with you yeah yeah yeah
absolutely but then what is the feeling
that we get when we make the call and we
hang up to me that feeling is when on
the line with my values encouraged is my
value absolutely and you can't get to
courage without walking through
vulnerability period who said that one
there was a lock I can think I'm I think
I say this after every print I'd been
clipped it was a lot in that one where
do we want to start on breaking that one
down again I love how she breaks down a
concept like courage and she defines it
as as wholeheartedness I really like
that concept and I think that's what I'm
taking away from this last clip is how
to how to be a wholehearted worthy
feeling worthy in life because that all
those moments that they talk about are
very different
yeah it really comes down to I I really
understood like success lays in the
capacity to be yourself and to be
vulnerable and when you can think feel
and do in total alignment with who you
truly are
and I think she really closed it out
very very inspiring they like you your
success comes when those things are in
alignment when you're being true to
yourself and to others
and knowing that you won't always be in
that state of flow and harmony in fact
you'll face a lot of challenging getting
there but always striving for that
alignment between the values and the
things that you do and things you think
wow I mean it's like we need two or
three shows just to digest one book from
bring a branch at this heavy weight
stuff yeah I mean there's so many more
concepts that Brittnay talks about not
only in this book but in in her wide
breadth of work I know she's spoken on
things like impostor syndrome and and
many many others
but we're not leaving Brunei just yet we
have one more show coming up with that's
right we're gonna go into her most one
of the most recent books braving the
willness and it's a great Bilitis we
talked about it earlier in the show you
know braving the wilderness is about
connecting with others daring greatly is
about you living up to your wildest
ambitions and dreams and and stepping
into the arena and the gift of
imperfection was really about the
courage to be yourself what what a great
triumvirate of books I mean that is some
that is some exciting stuff how do you
think and where do you expect things to
go in the next show Chad when we when we
get into braving the wilderness well I
think we had close to 25 clips for this
show I'm sure we'll find 40 minutes to
fit in us you the next
I'm very impressed by her articulate
Ness of ideas I think she's talking
about very she's talking about things
that people don't often talk about and
she talks about them in a very formal
way I think that's what I like most
about not only her kind of public
appearances I mean she even has a
Netflix special but also in her writing
it's very approachable and
understandable and I'm learning a lot
about how she's sharing all of her
knowledge with with her authors and and
her hands hmm yep inspiring stuff and
quite challenging actually I think simon
Sinek is also an author that challenges
but I think Bernie Brown takes at a
whole level further into the dica
deepest darkest caverns of our
subconscious and exposing some things
that really need to see the light of day
and I think that's a special gift Chad
this one this this shows being intense
it was like if the show prep wasn't
enough of a challenge getting all the
microphones and software's back then
then the fire alarm that we work was
going off let's just double down and
then we got an onslaught of big ideas
around how we might dare to be great
I mean who I'm exhausted Chad and I
still haven't got to the office yet I
know I know and I've still got some
preparations for our Thanksgiving
holiday here in the States to get done
before hitting the road to spend some
connection time with with family well I
think you go armed with so much
inspiration from a great book and I hope
that you all of our listeners got lots
and lots of little special nuggets
little gems the rough diamonds that you
can polish up from brené Brown and her
book daring greatly Chad it has been
wonderful
I think this has been just another great
stop along the way on the journey of the
moonshots podcast so I want to say
thanks to you what are you most looking
forward to on Thanksgiving is there a
particular dish that you're really
eyeing up and thinking I could have me a
double portion I'm making a brand new
dessert I'm attempting a cranberry tert
mmm and my wife is making an apple pie
can't go wrong with American apple pie
so looking forward to that I'm a sweets
person I've got an insatiable sweet
tooth so I'll be eating old that sounds
so damn good any any Christmas or
Thanksgiving lunch that comes with two
desserts not just one that I'll take a
ticket to that one so I hope you Chad
enjoy yourself immensely over this
Thanksgiving break I can't wait to do
the third and final show for brené Brown
it's been wonderful
thus far I want to thank you I want to
thank our listeners we have got to the
end of another
moonshots podcast thank you for all of
your thoughts comments emails social
likes and comments you can find us at
moonshots dot IO thanks again and that's
a wrap
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