Alyssa Matz - Why Do My Friends In Crisis Need Me?

Show Notes

Alyssa Matz - Why Do My Friends In Crisis Need Me? by Browncroft Community Church

What is Why God Why??

If you could ask God one question what would it be? The “Why God Why” podcast is dedicated to exploring the questions that matter most in your life.

Deep questions often don’t have easy answers. We realize that we won’t solve all the world’s problems in one podcast. Our goal is to share our life experience, interview knowledgeable guests and look at how Jesus might interact with our concerns. We also hope to have a ton of fun in the process because even though the issues might be serious, it doesn’t mean that we always need to be.

No matter where you are on your spiritual journey, we are honored to have you with us!

Peter Englert:
Welcome to the Why God Why podcast. This is Peter Englert. I am here with Alyssa Matz, our guest. She is a staff person. This is her first podcast. She's answering the question why do my friends in crisis need me? I'm here with our illustrious co-host, Aaron Mercer. Hello, hello.

Aaron Mercer:
Hey.

Peter Englert:
There we go.

Aaron Mercer:
Good to be here. Alyssa, we're glad to have you here with us.

Alyssa Matz:
I'm so glad to be here.

Peter Englert:
And we also have our fantastic producer, Nathan. We exist to respond to the questions you don't feel comfortable asking in church. And so this was a hard why question, but I think that why do my friends in crisis need me, I think that it hints that when someone goes through something, some of us tend to over help. Some of us tend to under help. How do we navigate that? And I feel like Alyssa's a great person to do that. What do you think, Aaron?

Aaron Mercer:
Absolutely. Yeah, no, I think this is ... I'm looking forward to this conversation. I think it's a good topic. It's a topic a lot of us have to ... At one point or another, if we have friends, which hopefully we do, we hit on that in a different podcast with Amanda. But it's something that we all will have to face and quite frankly, our friends will have to face with us at some point. Everybody's going to hit a crisis moment at some point. So I'm excited about this.

Aaron Mercer:
So we know Alyssa. I mean, Alyssa works here with us at Browncroft in our family ministry department. And we're just so thankful to have her on staff with us. But Peter and I know you, but maybe you could introduce yourself to our listeners.

Alyssa Matz:
Yeah. Awesome. So like you said, my name is Alyssa. I work in family ministry. I'm the family ministry coordinator and I've been loving that job. The family ministry team is just so awesome and I'm so blessed that I get to work with them. And then I also am interning actually. So I work here and I intern here. I intern in the congregational care department with Jay. And that is a part of my MSW program that I'm in. It's required that we do an internship. And I was just so blessed to be able to do my internship here at Browncroft.

Aaron Mercer:
MSW is master of social work.

Alyssa Matz:
Yes. Masters of social work. Yeah.

Aaron Mercer:
Great. So what sort of things are you doing in the congregational care department?

Alyssa Matz:
Oh, so much. Which is why I love it so much is there's always something new to be doing. We meet with people who come into the church and say, "Hey, I'm in a crisis." Right?

Peter Englert:
Right.

Aaron Mercer:
Right. Which fits well with this conversation, right? Yep.

Alyssa Matz:
Yes. They come in, they need hard help. Or there's some people who need tangible resources. They need money for groceries or they need car repairs. We're able to provide the funding for that. We also do support groups. So we have grief share, divorce care, and those are meeting weekly every Sunday. And just helping people in a group setting is ... It's so cool. I've gotten to help with both of those groups. So divorce care and grief share. We do senior connections, which is for elderly people in our community and in our church, 65 and older. And they meet once a month too. So there's just so much stuff going on in congregational care and you never know what a day is going to look like because it depends on who walks through the door or who calls you or emails you. And it's been so exciting and fun.

Aaron Mercer:
And man, between family ministry and the care work that you're doing, you're meeting the people at all stages of life. And I know Peter and I, we both have kids that you take care of on Sundays. You make them feel greeted and welcomed. You're also helping out the teenagers that we have here in our youth program. And man, you get to see people at all moments and probably get to see friends needing to deal with crises at all [inaudible 00:03:58]. So I'm going to throw it to Peter and let him ask what ... Because he's got something on the tip of his tongue here.

Peter Englert:
No, no, no, no. We love it. So when do you think was the first moment that you said, "I want to get involved with people in crisis."? How old were you? When was it clicking that this is something that you're passionate about?

Alyssa Matz:
This is a good question, Peter. For me, my story and how I even got into the field of social work began when I was a freshman in high school. I went on a missions trip to Haiti with my small church back in Akron, New York, near Buffalo. So half of the people who went on the mission trip was from the church. The other half was from Roberts Wesleyan College and they were social work majors. And they were going with a professor who went to the church. So she was the bridge between Roberts and the church. And I was able to go on that trip as a freshman and see these social work majors helping people. They were doing needs assessments. They were what the people in that small village in Haiti needed. And then we were able to get those resources to them based on the assessments that the social work majors had done.

Alyssa Matz:
And I just thought it was so cool. I was like, "Whoa. We can tangibly help these people. We don't just go and say, 'Oh, nice to meet you. Let's snap a picture, post it on Instagram and leave.' But it's more like we can and see what you need and partner with you in giving you the resources you need now and in the future." And so that kind of planted the seed when I was a freshman in high school. And then I actually had an opportunity to go back again when I was a senior in high school. And between the time I was a freshman and a senior, I kind of doubted. I was like, "Oh, social work. Yeah, that was cool but I kind of want to make money. I'm kind of smart. I could go into nursing or something where I'm smart and making money."

Alyssa Matz:
And then after the second mission trip, I just felt God tugging on my heart and saying, "No, this is where you need to go. You need to follow what I have for you, not what's going to make you the most money or what makes you smart or whatever it is." So yeah, God just really put it on my heart that I was called into the field of social work through that trip. And originally I thought, "Oh, I could be an international social worker or work with adoption." Because that's what I was exposed to. But once I jumped into the field of social work, I realized that it's so broad and there's so many different things you can do. And that probably won't be the exact route that I take with it, but it still gave me a taste of caring for people and genuinely meeting their needs and I just fell in love with that.

Peter Englert:
That's awesome. I have a question. Because you're in your 20s. I know that people thought you probably act older, so that's a compliment, but you're in your 20s. So on one hand, there's a lot of your peers that are de-churched and unchurch and feel like the church is very disconnected from the needs of the world. On the other hand, you have parents, and you probably deal with this a little bit in family ministry, that feel like it's pure information that's transformational. So it's the kids need to know all 66 books of the Bible, they need to know the doctrine of the Trinity and they need ... And all these things are important, but you have these two groups that you're giving this third way story that you're saying, no, the church was involved and I learned a ton by doing. So I guess, how did all of that come together for you? And the more that you're a part of the church, do you see that of it's not just about understanding the theology of the gospel, but it's actually living it out? What's that interplay for you?

Alyssa Matz:
Oh, that's such a good question. So my life verse that I just absolutely love is from James and it talks about how faith without works is dead. So if you believe something, you have to put it into action. Knowing it isn't enough. You have to practice your faith. And that can be hard. We have had some pushback from parents who want us to ... This is the way the kids need to know this kind of thing. But we are in the business of teaching children and students how to think instead of what to think. And we do that through genuine relationships with small group leaders and the staff. And I just think that you can get much farther in caring for people if ... People don't care what you know until they know that you care. So caring for people for us at family ministry and for me is a value. And I think you can get much farther by caring for people and loving people rather than telling them what to do or telling them what to think.

Peter Englert:
I want to come back to your peers that are de-churched and unchurched. And we're in this question why do my friends in crisis need me? What is the difference that you see that Christianity motivates you to your friends in crisis that's different if Christianity or Jesus wasn't there? And let me just frame it. There's TV shows now like How I Met Your Father, there's been Friends. I'm aging myself here. But The Office where they play on the importance of these relationships, but rarely do we see them in the real world. And I guess you probably have a different perspective from your peers about crisis, about being de-churched and unchurched and how that goes together. How would you respond to that?

Alyssa Matz:
Ooh. I'm going to have to think about that one. For my peer groups, there's a lot of deconstruction. There's a lot of unchurch. And I think the preconceived notion that a lot of people have is that the church doesn't help in crisis, but the church causes crisis. I think that's just a bias. I think it's definitely untrue, but I can see why people may have thought that. So a lot of people in crisis turn away from the church because they either think the church is the cause of the crisis or they think the church is going to make the crisis worse. But I don't believe that's true and I think that ... Yeah.

Aaron Mercer:
So, no, thank you, Alyssa. You were talking about the church helping. You talked about how you got into social work and you're pursuing your masters in social work, which is really cool. At Roberts, is that right?

Alyssa Matz:
Yeah. At Roberts.

Aaron Mercer:
Yeah. No, that's great. So now, I'm assuming you're doing that so you can be helping people generally. I mean, there's always people who need help, but especially right now, after the last couple years we've been in. But I'm curious even ... I think we started a touch on even in some of your own personal relationships, your friends. It's one thing to be helping people who you're professionally suited to help. I mean, that's one relationship, which is really important. But what about when a friend ... I'm sure a lot of people can resonate with this is if a friend comes to you and is in a moment of crisis, whether that's a health crisis or a job crisis, they lost a job or they're about to lose a job, or maybe it's some other relational thing or there was a death in the family or who knows what it is.

Aaron Mercer:
But someone comes to you. For you, both as someone as a friend who's been through things like this before, but also was someone who's got a little professional training too, what are some of the questions that start coming in your mind that you want to ... I don't want to say you want to ... Well, you want to explore. You want to obviously probably be compassionate and careful how you do that, but you want to explore. What are some of the questions that are coming into your mind?

Alyssa Matz:
Yeah. When I do have a friend that comes to me in crisis, the first thing that I have to personally remind myself of is that I'm not their counselor or their therapist. That can be hard because of my background in social work to go into therapist mode or counselor mode. But people just need a friend. When they come to you as a friend, you don't need to be their counselor, you don't need to be their therapist. Even if that's what you are maybe. And I think a lot of time we go into that mode and we forget we're friends. We don't need to counsel or to solve their issue or to be their therapist. That's just the first thing that I think of.

Alyssa Matz:
Second thing I think of which probably should have been the first thing is prayer. Praying for the situation, praying with your friend in the situation. I always think that's a good place to start. No matter what the crisis is or whatever the situation is, prayer is a great place to start. And even if you're not a praying person or you're not a Christian, taking a moment to pause, reflect, breathe, before you jump into action and think through the situation before you start trying to solve it is always a great place to start. So I say prayer is first. But then after that, there's three questions that you should ask yourself when your friend comes to you in crisis. This is what I do. So first of all, I ask, what is my capacity in this situation? What resources do I have? What is my availability? Am I tapped out emotionally? Am I able to respond to this in a healthy way? Those are just reflection questions of your self before you even start to help the other person think of how you can fit into the situation and what the best way to do that is. You can't pour from an empty cup.

Alyssa Matz:
So if your cup is empty, you're not going to be able to fill up your friend's cup, to pour into them, to help them in the way that they need. Second question which sometimes gets overlooked, but it's so important. Asking your friend what they need. So we think, oh, that's obvious to ask the person what they need, but it's often a step that gets skipped or gets missed. You just jump into action and you start solving their problem or giving them advice or not doing any of that, whatever you think is best. But the best thing to do is to ask a person, "Hey, what do you need?" And the way that I ask it is ... Because they may not know what they need in that moment so giving them some options is pretty helpful. So I say, "What do you need right now? Do you need my hands, do you need my mind, or do you need my shoulder?"

Alyssa Matz:
Hands meaning, do you need me to step in and do something for you in this crisis? Do you need me to physically come in and help you in some way. My mind. Do you need advice? Do you need me to tell you what to do? Do you need me to tell you some resources? There's some information that I know that can help you. And then third is the shoulder. Do you just need me to sit with you? Do you just want me to come and keep you company during this time? Do you just want me to be with you as you struggle through this crisis? So those are three questions that you ask your friend in crisis.

Alyssa Matz:
And then the third thing you want to do is kind of create a Venn diagram. So look at your capacity to help, look at what your friend needs, overlap it and see where those things meet. And that's the gold right there. That's what you want to do. That's where you want to be. You don't want to ignore your needs, you don't want to ignore your friends' needs, but you want to look and see where those needs overlapped. And that's the best way that you can help them in that time. Because you don't want to be working out of your capacity and you also don't want to be meeting needs that your friend doesn't actually need met. So it's a balance and that's just my rule of thumb is your needs, their needs overlapped. Does that make sense?

Aaron Mercer:
Wow. Yeah. No, that's really helpful.

Peter Englert:
That's super practical. I was thinking about ... Darren Patrick was a pastor that committed suicide and Steve Cuss, who was a guest on our podcast, interviewed his wife. Because the second question that you asked is the one that we always struggle with. What do you need? And in some ways it's a cop out to say, "Hey, what do you need?" No one's really going to tell you what they need. But one of the things Amy said that I just want to get your thoughts on was, Amy Patrick, she shared how the friend said, "Hey Amy, my daughter would really love to ride with your daughter to sports practice." And so it was almost a way of telling her, "I know you need this, but I need you to get this perspective that this is actually helpful for me." Because I think that's ... The second question is where we kind of get lost. Besides that strategy, are there any other strategies that you've seen that work that when someone's in crisis ... Because I think the danger is you overdo or the danger is you like, "Well, I asked, they said no." And know that they're bailing water.

Alyssa Matz:
Right. Yeah. As Christians and as people, we tend to either over help or under help like I think you said before. And that can be a very dangerous thing because if you're over helping, you're not actually helping the situation. If you're under helping, you're not actually helping the situation either. So it's all about finding the balance between what the person needs and what's too much. One thing that I would say as just a general rule of thumb is just show up. Whether that is in person or through texting or giving someone a phone call, just be there for that person. It means more than you know. You may not think that they want you to be there. Even if you're just sitting in silence next to someone who's going through a crisis, just having that connection to someone is so important.

Alyssa Matz:
There's a quote by Brene Brown and she says ... It's so good. She says ... I have it right here, actually, on my phone. She said, "Rarely can a response make something better. What makes something better is connection." So not getting caught up in staying the right or wrong thing, but just connecting with that person that you're trying to care for. I think often when I'm thinking about under helping, I think a lot of times Christians do this thing where they say, "Oh, I'll pray for you." And your friend comes to you, they're in crisis, and you don't know what to do. So your cop out answer is, "Oh, I'll pray for you." And praying for people is good. Like I said, we should do that. But if that's where it stops, then I think that that is a little bit of an under helping.

Alyssa Matz:
I think that as Christians we're called to do more than just pray. I think we we're called to pray obviously. But there's a verse in James as well in that same passage that I get my life verse from that says if a brother or sister comes to you and they're hungry and they need clothing and you say, "Oh, I'll pray for. Be on your way. Nice to talk to you.", but you don't give them that clothe or the food that they need, then what good is it? And I think as Christians, we need to remember that praying is good, but sometimes we need to do more than just pray. Sometimes we need to actually offer something to that friend or just follow up with them after you pray. Say, "Hey, I've been praying for you. How's it going? Just checking in." Just not falling into the trap of being afraid and using prayer as a cop out.

Aaron Mercer:
No, that's so good. I love the practical questions you put together. And I mean, I like diagrams, so I kind of liked how you brought that in too. And one of the things I love about it is it's important to remember that we have limitations. And I think that can be paralyzing for people to feel like I have to do everything to help and I can't do it all so maybe just the better thing is to just shut off. But it seems like if someone's your friend ... I mean, it's probably different in other situations, but if someone is your friend, you probably at least have the capacity to be a shoulder, even if you can't do anything else. Even if it's for a limited time. I don't know. I guess even there, there's probably balances you have to strike. How would you suggest to people to deal with something that's not a ... It's not a one off crisis. It's not a crisis that gets solved overnight or even in a week or even in a month. What about something that's a long term thing? How do you help your friends that are in a longer term crisis?

Peter Englert:
Do you have an Aaron?

Aaron Mercer:
Well, I mean, I think you could go a lot of different directions with that. Some relational crises can last for a while. I mean, whether it's someone going through a separation or a divorce and there's a long term struggle there. I was actually thinking more of like a health crisis. Something like a cancer or whatever that that's not an overnight thing. Or not usually. And how do you continue to be helpful to someone, to a friend who's in a crisis like that? Where do you start and where do you try to go with it?

Alyssa Matz:
Yeah. I think you start at the same place that I said before is knowing your capacities. So knowing you can't solve their cancer, you can't walk in and take that away from them. But knowing what you can do and listing that out and writing it down and making a plan ahead of time. Like if you know your friend is going to go through cancer and they're going to be sick for months or years, thinking ahead and planning, what can I do? What do they need during this time and what am I able to do? So if that's making meals or visiting them during their treatments. Just being there, honestly, throughout that time is so crucial and can be so meaningful and we don't even realize it. What we don't want to do is try to solve things. We don't want to say, "Oh, this is a long term crisis. I can fix it. I can jump in. I can save the day."

Alyssa Matz:
And I think that's what we're tempted to do a lot of the time is to overextend ourselves and to try to do more than what we are able to do. So keeping in mind what you can do and what you cannot do in the beginning of the crisis, once you realize, oh, my friend has a relational issue or a health issue, knowing you can't solve it. You're not God. You're not able to take that away or heal it completely. But you can do what you're capable of, which would be being someone's friend, giving them practical things they need, being a support system. Maybe it's setting up a weekly or monthly meeting with them and just checking in, talking to them. Does that answer your question?

Aaron Mercer:
Yeah, no, I think that helps. I think that's a really ... There's some helpful tips, helpful advice. And I imagine too, if you have worked hard to start off the right way, that opens the doors for you to be of more help as you go along. Or knowing the right kind of help, I should say too. Not just offering maybe the right kind, but knowing how your friends' needs are changing. So yeah. I am curious too. Peter, can I ask another question? All right. So what do you think holds people back on the flip side? Like if you're the friend who is in crisis, what holds people back from actually reaching out in the first place?

Alyssa Matz:
If you are the friend in crisis, what holds you back from reaching out to your friends?

Aaron Mercer:
Yeah.

Alyssa Matz:
Oh, definitely there's lots of things. And I think the main thing is fear. Maybe being afraid to bother your friend. You don't want to inconvenience them or put your problems on them. You can handle it yourself. I get like that sometimes I know for sure. If I have a crisis, my instinct is to shrink in and not to reach out to others because I'm afraid I don't want to bother them or I can handle it myself kind of attitude. And then sometimes there's even things like shame or guilt. Maybe the friend who's in crisis played a part in creating that crisis and they're ashamed that they have done that and they don't want to admit that they did something wrong or that they need help in that way. So fear, shame. And then the third thing I would say is maybe they don't know that they can and ask you. Right?

Aaron Mercer:
Yeah.

Alyssa Matz:
They don't even think of it as an option. Maybe no one has been there for them in crisis, or maybe this is their first time going through a crisis and they just don't even realize that there is a friend there that can help them through it.

Peter Englert:
Let's flip that. I like where you went Aaron. So let's say your friend ha in crisis hasn't come to you, but you're aware of it. And it's kind of a gray area of what do I do? I'm aware of this crisis. And sometimes it's public. Like sometimes someone posts on Facebook and says, "I have cancer." Other times you find out through the grapevine. How do you approach when you haven't been approached?

Alyssa Matz:
Mm. Yeah. That's a good question and that can be tricky too, because I think we often feel the fear on this side of not wanting to encroach on someone or push them or make them feel uncomfortable. But I don't think it's a bad idea to reach out to a person who is in crisis. Obviously you don't want to do it in an unhealthy or a weird way where you're like, "Hey, I heard you have cancer and I haven't talked to you in five years, but ..." You know what I mean? You want it to be organic and you want it to be genuine. If you feel compelled to reach out to somebody who is in crisis, it should come from a place of actual concern and empathy for that person. Not from a place of feeling like it's required of you, or you have to, or you want to be the hero or whatever it is.

Alyssa Matz:
So yeah, definitely needs to come from a place of empathy. And then from there, be gentle with the person. You don't want to alarm them or scare them, but connect with them first. Just like Brene Brown said, it's not about saying the right or wrong thing. It's about developing a connection with a person and caring for them. So showing them that you care about them beyond what their crisis is if that makes sense. I care about you as a person, not only when you're in this crisis, but I cared about you before and I care about you after it's over.

Peter Englert:
I think an occupational hazard as a pastor is ... And I don't know if you've been through this. I'll get on the phone or email with someone that's in crisis and it's almost like, "Well, why didn't you know?" And it's like I can't read minds. And I also too think-

Aaron Mercer:
You can't read minds?

Peter Englert:
I can't.

Aaron Mercer:
Are you sure?

Peter Englert:
Oh, man.

Aaron Mercer:
Man.

Alyssa Matz:
Good thing you can't read my mind right now.

Peter Englert:
Well, that means we have to bring Robin on for another podcast because she wished I could read her mind. So I mean, I think about there's two expectations. Like even just a small groups thing. We have small groups, 10 to 12 people, and this person will say, "Hey, I'm in this crisis." And then there's no ... They have expectations, but they're not communicating them. So I kind of put a little bit of the responsibility on the person in crisis, because it's like, you want something from the group. But then I also put the expectations on the group too because it's like, at the very least ... You talked about doing a plan. What I do when I find out someone's in crisis, I have an initial conversation. If there isn't anything I can do right away, I put in my phone, "Hey, I'm going to follow up with you in a month." Or just depending on it.

Peter Englert:
So I kind of [inaudible 00:28:45] both sides. Number one, if you're in crisis and you have expectations, I think it's so important to share that. But number two, friends, small group, you need to at least enter in to say, "Hey, what does support look like? We can set up the meal train, we can do this." And I think sometimes people just feel, I don't know, helpless. So I guess we can't read minds, but we have to create the safe enough environment to have those conversations too.

Alyssa Matz:
Yeah, that's so true. It's a two way street. I think the person in crisis, not that we want to put all the responsibility on them, but like you said, they are responsible for letting the people who are helping them know if they're doing too much or too little. Which they may not realize in the moment in the crisis but being prepared or talking to someone maybe before a crisis happens, not that you can predict a crisis, but knowing them and knowing their style and their love language and how they feel best served is super helpful. So then when they do get to that crisis, the person who's caring for them knows, well, I know that this person feels loved in this way and they can think back to that because the person in crisis may not be able to tell them exactly what they need during that time. But it is a two-way street. I think that while more responsibility is on the person caring for the other person, I do think there's a little bit of responsibility on the person in the crisis to let others know what they need and what best fits their [crosstalk 00:30:27]

Peter Englert:
No, go ahead.

Aaron Mercer:
I think that's a good point. There's a two way street there. I love that we're even talking about the people like Peter who puts it on his list to contact people who have already made the effort to get into that situation in the first place. Because it seems to me like, especially we all have such ... We keep ourselves too busy. We did another podcast on that recently, right?

Peter Englert:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Aaron Mercer:
Yeah. People staying too busy with our calendars and that was the Jen Pollock Michael? Yeah?

Peter Englert:
Michel.

Aaron Mercer:
Michel. Sorry. Man.

Peter Englert:
Oh, no. It's okay.

Aaron Mercer:
Sorry. Sorry. Sorry about that.

Peter Englert:
Right here, Jen. Right here.

Aaron Mercer:
She'll forgive. She'll forgive me for that, I think. But we stay so busy that it's easy to either not even see a need or maybe not want to see it. I don't know. It's easy to feel like if I even put myself in as a shoulder, that's going to draw me in too much. I don't know. All I know is that ... I guess what I'm trying to get at is I know that at points in my life, whether I've had a death in the family or a job loss, to me, it's made a big difference when someone has stepped in just to be the, "Hey, how are you doing?" And not just disappear. Because that's probably the first step. And then it seems like then you can have the other, "Hey, how can I help you out?" But yeah, what do you think about that?

Peter Englert:
Well, I got one story before she responds. It's from your world.

Aaron Mercer:
Uh-oh.

Peter Englert:
I think it was Mark Batterson that told this story. So Aaron attended church in Washington, DC at the National Community Church and I wouldn't necessarily say this is crisis, but it's emblematic. I want to say the Senator was Tom Daschle. And Tom Daschle was in South Dakota? North Dakota?

Aaron Mercer:
South Dakota.

Peter Englert:
South Dakota. And he lost the election. And I think it was Mark Batterson. If not, Mark, sorry. But basically, somehow they got connected. It was after he lost. And it was the in between time and it was like, well, should I call him? And the person that he was talking to, he's like, "No one's calling Daschle right now. No one's talking to him." And I don't know if you ... I mean, you worked on the senate. Like we're talking about cancer crisis and stuff. And I don't think there's tons of us that are running for office, but there's even the little things like that. I mean, did you have experiences like that where it was like-

Aaron Mercer:
I mean, that's a job loss for sure. That's a big-

Peter Englert:
Yeah.

Aaron Mercer:
That's definitely something to process through. And you're right, there's probably ... Especially people in different situations. Some who are maybe in highly public situations, it might be even harder for someone to feel like, oh, maybe I shouldn't reach out to them. I don't know.

Alyssa Matz:
Yeah. Just to jump in here. I think a lot of the times we take the attitude like, "Oh, someone else will talk to them. I don't need to reach out to them because-"

Aaron Mercer:
I think that's where Peter was going. Right?

Alyssa Matz:
Yeah. So we just assume like, "Oh, they have so many friends." Or, "They have a big family. They don't need me to reach out to them and it doesn't matter." But in reality it does. And I think it does make a difference when someone even who may be a little bit removed from you, who may just be a friend or an acquaintance reaches out in your time of crisis. And I don't think anyone can ever feel ... If it's done in a healthy way, I don't think anyone can ever feel too cared for. I don't think that anyone's going to look back and say, "Wow. During that crisis is Alyssa was just too there for me. She was too encouraging. She showed me the love of God too much." I don't think anyone would say that. If it's-

Aaron Mercer:
She listened too much.

Alyssa Matz:
She listened so well. Oh, Alyssa. No. But I just think we have this fear that it's going to be overwhelming or too much care, or they already have enough people that are for them. But I think we greatly underestimate ourselves in that and knowing how much just reaching out or being there for someone actually matters. It does.

Peter Englert:
Well. And there's some creativity. I think I've said this on the podcast before. My sister's a cancer survivor. She was diagnosed around seven. And my brother and sister and I, we always talk about my brother legitimately hates the green mint chocolate chip ice cream because people came and filled our freezer with mint chocolate chip green ice cream. Because when she was going through the chemo, that was one of the only things that she could eat. And it's just these little things that you see God's faithfulness. And I'm even remember the story, Everything Happens for A Reason. It's a book by Kate Bowler. She talks about this family during her stage four cancer just sent an Amazon gift card every month. And I don't think anyone's going to sit there ... That is at the low level. And they finally decided to stop. But I think that we close ourselves off to just, there's some creative ways that you can involve yourself without feeling like you're crossing that boundary that people look back on and they say, "Oh, that person was there for me."

Alyssa Matz:
Yeah. I think a lot of times we're tempted to get a little too specific, like you said about the mint chocolate chip ice cream, sending that. And yeah, you can get too much of mint chocolate chip ice cream. Well, can you? It's pretty good.

Peter Englert:
According to my brother, yes.

Alyssa Matz:
According to your brother, you can. But anyway, if someone is in crisis, maybe sending them dinner every single night. They're going to have a lot of leftovers. They probably don't need dinner every single night, but providing them with resources and things that open the door like an Amazon gift card or a coffee gift card or something where they have a choice over the tangible thing that they're getting instead of giving them the same thing like a casserole every day. You're going to have too much casserole. But maybe giving them a recipe book where they can make their own casseroles or something less specific and more something that opens the door for that person to get the things they need. Does that make sense?

Peter Englert:
Yeah. I think what I hear you say is think about what the person would appreciate, not necessarily you.

Alyssa Matz:
Yes.

Peter Englert:
So I heard of a situation. This person and people will remain nameless. There was ... I wouldn't say it was a crisis, but it was a major life transition. And all of a sudden it was, "Hey, we didn't have time to make lasagna, but here's all the ingredients." And it was kind of like ... You know?

Alyssa Matz:
Yeah.

Peter Englert:
It's nice that you bought all of this, but in this major life transition, it's not like I can just throw it in the crockpot. Maybe you can, but lasagna is a fairly intense meal to make. And so I think what I hear you saying is be person centric. If it's someone like probably you or me, I think we're a little bit alike, it's like, "Hey, show up. They don't mind it." If it's someone like Aaron, I mean, coffee's always good, right?

Aaron Mercer:
Sure. Coffee's a good thing. But showing up is good I think for everybody.

Alyssa Matz:
And showing up doesn't mean walking up to someone's doorstep and walking in and saying, "Hey, I'm going to sit next to you for the next three hours. It could just mean sending-

Aaron Mercer:
A card.

Alyssa Matz:
A card. It could mean sending a text. It could mean a little phone call. It doesn't have to mean showing up like being right there, right on them all the time. Like I'm walking with you through this. But just knowing that you're there. It may be more of a subtle being there with them, but it's not a bad thing.

Peter Englert:
Let's have some fun here. This is an all answer question.

Aaron Mercer:
Uh-oh. These are always dangerous, just so you know.

Peter Englert:
Well, no, no.

Alyssa Matz:
I like a little dangerous.

Peter Englert:
So if you're in crisis, what's the one to two things that you would say I can't always articulate, but I know that this is super helpful? Because I think this will be helpful for our listeners.

Alyssa Matz:
Yeah.

Peter Englert:
Do you both want to think and let me go first? Would that be-

Aaron Mercer:
Yes.

Alyssa Matz:
You go first. I'll think a little bit.

Aaron Mercer:
You're the question asker on this one. You start off.

Peter Englert:
Well, yeah. So number one, I think just including and inviting. So depending on whether it's ... And that's what's hard. So showing up physically is a big deal, but say I'm going through something, like if we're recording this during March madness to say, "Hey, come over at and just watch the game with me." That's huge. I think the second thing too is, I wouldn't say my love language is acts of service, but when I'm really stressed in crisis, serving is huge. So if someone came to my house and just mowed the lawn or if someone came in ... I mean, I'm very touched, but my next door neighbor, we had a bad morning with Hailey and Lucy and Lucy was up at 5:15, it snowed four or five inches.

Peter Englert:
He just ... And I didn't know how to receive it because I'm an Enneagram two. Maybe we'll get there. But he just blew my driveway. And so I think when I'm in crisis, depending on what it is, most of the time number one it's how can you be physically present? And we don't need to talk about what's going on. But then number two, it's how can you take some of this stuff off my plate that I'm not naturally wired to do? So that's what I'd say.

Aaron Mercer:
Do you want me to go or do you want to go?

Alyssa Matz:
I just kind of want to echo.

Aaron Mercer:
Go for it.

Alyssa Matz:
Exactly what you said was probably going to be my answer. I thought back to a time in college, I had a mini health crisis and three of my best friends just showed up within a week and just hung out with me and just were like, "Hey, let's just talk, let's get ice cream, let's go shopping." And it was just so fun. I just remember so vividly when they texted me and said, "Hey, I heard about what was going on. I want to hang out." And just having someone there with me just made things so, so much better. I just love ... I think my love language is quality time so maybe that's why I enjoy ... I just love being surrounded by people, especially when I'm going through a hard time, because it's really hard to go through hard times alone. So having someone to just step in and say, "I just want to be with you." And then also the acts of service too. Sometimes we don't have capacity when we're going through a crisis to do the things that we normally could like make dinner or go show shopping or mow our lawn. So I think, yeah, having someone that just does that, it's so good. It's such a blessing. And so I think I agree. I think my top two are probably the same as yours.

Aaron Mercer:
Are you in an Enneagram two also?

Alyssa Matz:
I am not. I'm a nine.

Aaron Mercer:
A nine. Okay.

Alyssa Matz:
Yeah. Wing one. So I got a little bit of a perfectionist and peacekeeper.

Aaron Mercer:
Wow. All right. Cool. Peter wants me to say what I am. It's an ongoing thing here. We think that I'm moving accepting a six, but as a six I'm skeptical about it.

Peter Englert:
You think that you're six. I don't type people, so.

Aaron Mercer:
Okay. That's good. That's good. That's the way it's supposed to be. I mean, I love what you guys said and I think it shows that different people respond in different ways. For me, I think words of affirmation are important. And to me, I think it depends on the crisis. Because there are sometimes when it's ... If there's a crisis, meaning there's a health thing going on or there's a ... Maybe it's not even necessarily a bad health thing. It could just be you just had a kid which is awesome, but it's also sort of a ... It rocks your world. I think that something like a gift card or food or something, that definitely helps. But as far as for me in a different kind of crisis, I think words of affirmation are important just to know that you're not alone, that people see you still, that they haven't this disappeared. Because this world can seem pretty like a lonely place.

Aaron Mercer:
So I think that's important to ... I don't necessarily need to have someone sitting next to me, but more just to send a note, send a text, phone call, whatever, just to say, "Hey, how are you doing?" But yeah, that's my thought.

Alyssa Matz:
I feel like we touched on all of the three things that I said we could offer to our friends. Our hands, our minds and our shoulders. We each kind of picked a different one.

Peter Englert:
Well, and just as a homework step, I would encourage you to go to your friends before they're in crisis just to ask which one means the most to you. Because I think it's pre-deciding, you can help your friends with you, but they can help you with us. Aaron, words of affirmation, but I could imagine showing up at your door might not be helpful, whereas for me, it's like, come on in, I'm a mess and I'm okay. And stuff like that. So I just think it's important. Hopefully this podcast trains people to have those conversations.

Alyssa Matz:
Yeah. And just be the lookout before crisis happens. Get to know your friends, get to know the people around you, and take time to think and to slow down and think if this person was in a crisis, what would be the best way to help them and maybe even ask a person. Just get to know them before the crisis happens and you'll be more prepared when it does.

Peter Englert:
Time flew really fast. I feel like we're going to have to have you and Amanda on again. This was really fun.

Aaron Mercer:
Alyssa, this was a great conversation.

Alyssa Matz:
Oh yeah. This was so much fun.

Aaron Mercer:
I love the practical steps that you gave too. It was really, really good. So Peter, I just wanted to give you some kudos here too, because this is a practical example here. There was a health issue I had last year and Peter actually knew me well enough. That goes to exactly the point. He did not come and want to come in the door. He came by with some food and said, "Hey, I'm just getting this for you. I'm going to put on your doorstep. We'll talk later." So good job. You're modeling the way for the homework assignment you just talked about.

Peter Englert:
So now as an Enneagram two, there's been times that I've been discouraged and Aaron just shoots the text. So we are real friends in real life.

Aaron Mercer:
There you go.

Peter Englert:
There we go. So no, I appreciate that. And it's neat as we get to know each other, and even as we get to know you, you have this language now to do that. So this brings us to our last question. I appreciate that. And I appreciate you.

Aaron Mercer:
All right.

Peter Englert:
So what does Jesus have to say about this topic? So as always, Aaron and I respond to the question and then you basically clean up our mess.

Alyssa Matz:
Perfect. I can do that.

Peter Englert:
There we go. So who's going first?

Aaron Mercer:
Either way.

Peter Englert:
Okay.

Aaron Mercer:
Go for it. You go first. I think I went first last time.

Peter Englert:
I think you've gone first a lot of times, but that's okay.

Aaron Mercer:
I think so.

Peter Englert:
Yeah. I think about just the simple point of the golden rule, love others as you love yourself. I think sometimes we in the church shy away from loving ourselves, which I think is really important because when you love yourself well, that way you start to notice and love people well. And I think about even where we're landing, why do my friends in crisis need me? They need you because God placed you in their life. It's not by accident that this person's going through a crisis. And it's just so important. I think what the gospel does is it moves you from doing things for people that make you feel better like let go and let God, saying comments like that.

Peter Englert:
We didn't even get to those. But saying things that are super unhelpful or kind of saying, oh, I'll just pray for you. Because you have to stop and think, "Hey, this is what I would want. Maybe that's not what this person would want, but what can I do to step in for them to know that they're supported? I'm not going to be able to respond to their issues of deconstruction in one night. I'm not going to be able to cure cancer. I'm not going to be able to get them a job tomorrow." And we'd love for all those things to be true, but I can show up and showing up looks like a that. And I think that's what Jesus is teaching is love God, love your neighbor as yourself. I think that's pretty powerful.

Aaron Mercer:
Yeah. I think that's really good, Peter. I think we are called to love others and love others like we love ourselves, like you said. And in order to be really loving people we need to be attentive to what their needs are. I love the idea of you just showing up. And I think that's really important. I think part of showing up, especially as a Christian, is praying for that person. And I will say, I think that there are people who are really good at praying. And when someone who I know is really praying is praying for me, to me, that's really important. And I want to be faithful in that myself also. But maybe it's show up and pray too so it doesn't seem like you're just pushing people off. I think Jesus wants us to be showing up for people. What do you think, Alyssa?

Alyssa Matz:
Yeah. I like-

Aaron Mercer:
Clean up our mess here.

Alyssa Matz:
Yeah, no, I liked both of what you said. I thought both of your answers were really good. As I'm thinking about Jesus and how he was there for people in crisis, I think about how so many times he was on his way somewhere or he was doing something and people came to him in crisis and he didn't know them, he didn't have time to prepare, he didn't know their love language, but he was there with them. He sat with them. I think of Lazarus and Martha and Mary and how they were in crisis. Their brother had just died and Jesus comes and the first thing he does isn't fix the situation. The first thing he does is sit with them and cry. And I think we can learn a lot from that. How Jesus showed up with them. And then I also like what you were saying, Peter too. Remind me of what you said.

Peter Englert:
Love your neighbor as you [crosstalk 00:49:26].

Alyssa Matz:
Love your neighbor as ... There we go. Back to that idea is loving yourself and knowing your capacity because you're not going to be genuinely helping your neighbor if you are working out of your capacity, if you're trying to pour from an empty cup. So just to wrap that all together is you have to care for your neighbor in a healthy way and doing that means taking care of yourself as well, because you're just going to hurt them more if you're not helping them in a way that's healthy for you.

Peter Englert:
So crazy. I read John 11 yesterday. God does that sometimes. Alyssa, where's the best place people can find you and follow you?

Alyssa Matz:
The best place right now is my Instagram. It's @_AlyssaMatz_. I do a lot on there. I like to talk to people. I have so many internet friends. I love just talking to people on the internet. So if you follow me, I do a little bit of writing on there. My goal is to go a little bit deeper into my writing once school is over. So just follow me on Instagram for now and maybe some more things will come out of that.

Peter Englert:
Just remember us and just remember me and Aaron, okay? There you go.

Aaron Mercer:
Alyssa is a really good writer.

Peter Englert:
She is.

Aaron Mercer:
She's written a few things for our Browncroft blog also. And we got another one coming out pretty soon so yeah, she's good.

Peter Englert:
So there we go. Thank you so much for joining us. Make sure the best way to get in touch with us and stay connected is go to whygodwhypodcast.com and click the subscribe button. Thank you so very much.