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A lighthearted reading of Marcus Aurelius' Meditations. Join us as we read his private journal from 2,000 years ago and talk about how it makes us feel.
Okay.
And when I talk into the
microphone, it also looks like
the bars go up, which is great.
Nice.
Okay.
Good job.
Good morning, Tony.
Oh, we're recording already.
We're recording.
Okay, great.
Going.
All right.
We're going, we're gonna
keep all of that homes thing.
Great.
Terrific.
We just go.
It's another early morning podcast.
Yep.
I think that is the vibe of this podcast.
Yeah.
This is a podcast for the early morning.
It's brought to you by caffeine.
Yeah.
Brought to you by Paul's eggs.
With onions, yes.
And coffee.
That's right.
So when I show up, when I, so we trade
off who goes to whose place to record.
When I go to Tom's place, he's waiting
for me at the door with a coffee.
I, that's an exaggeration.
It's not you literally, it's I
don't literally hand you the coffee
as you walk through the door.
Whereas I didn't have my stuff
together, so we just hung out
for a bit and had breakfast.
Yeah.
Made breakfast.
We've had a pleasant morning.
But I get the pleasure of also
hanging out with Paul's wife
when I come here, that's right.
That's right.
It's my place is lonely by comparison.
So last night you may
remember I sent you a message.
Okay.
To the effect of hey, so
are we still doing this?
Cause I'm okay if we rain check.
Yeah.
I interpreted that I think as you
maybe didn't want to do it this
morning and then I clocking that
said, no, I still wanna do it this
morning, and said, Nope, let's do it.
Sorry about that.
I hope that wasn't too much
of an inconvenience for you.
So no I'm really glad you did.
Okay.
But I think it's a funny phenomenon.
Do you ever do that?
Do you ever Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
I very much recognize the tone
of the text you were sending.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Okay.
I have certain people I meet with who.
Ev before every time we meet, they
send me something to that effect.
Interesting.
I would take that personally, or it
would be hard for me not to anyway.
Yeah.
I, yeah.
I think it was I think it was
a momentary, it was a moment
of weakness is what it was.
Okay.
I think I was, it was late.
It was, 9 44.
Yeah, I, you hadn't messaged me,
which was very uncharacteristic.
That's true.
I guess I was treating it as a standing.
Yeah.
So Tom doesn't really need
a message at this point.
It's on my calendar.
Yeah.
It's happening.
Unless we say it's not happening.
Yeah.
This is the problem with you, but
I get, I think it's a fair point,
especially since we've done it with a
somewhat irregular schedule recently.
Probably touching base the
night before is a good idea.
Do you think what do you
think Marcus would think of?
The text before being like, yeah, hey,
are we doing this slash do you want,
it's okay if we re check reschedule.
It isn't our nature,
Tom to do this podcast.
I think that's what he would say.
We must abide by the laws of our nature.
I guess I don't imagine him ever
sending a message that had that
kind of Social coding to it.
Okay.
Yeah, that's right.
Because he's all about
being very straightforward.
His whole, yeah.
So frequently the thing he praises in
other people is this he always is the
same and he's very you know how he feels.
And there's nothing to nothing ambiguous.
I do think that message
is a little ambiguous.
Because you're it was a slimy message.
You're confirming and you're
saying, let's reschedule.
It's a super slimy message.
I don't.
Like sending that kind of message.
Okay.
It's like a, it's like a, comes from
a place of weakness, and I imagine
that Marcus would not do that.
I agree.
I, yeah I think I agree that he's probably
not sending messages like that, but also
how much is he keeping his own count?
There's a, I'm trying to
think of the like Yeah.
The analogous that's thing
for him is I guess yeah.
Yeah.
Some version of he's got
a brother who, or yeah.
Who he likes, but doesn't.
Maybe they have a kind
of a tense relationship.
Or yeah.
Or maybe he's just tired.
He's yeah, I did the night before
I, I wrote a, I wrote in my journal
that or I was going to do this.
This very stoic thing where I would wake
up at four in the morning and do my Yeah.
Log carries uhhuh with the
troops, maybe it's raining.
Yeah.
And maybe we just do that next week.
Yeah.
Maybe the tent or whatever is
pretty warm and cozy this morning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I guess I also think he would've
had less compunction about
just straight up canceling.
If you're the amper room, you're
probably just Nope, not today.
That's true.
Yeah, there is something really.
Beautiful.
That living your life without ever
needing to send two-sided messages
like that where you either do
the thing you said you would do.
Yeah.
Or you just say, Nope, we're not doing it.
We're not doing it.
Yep.
And there's nothing in between.
And yeah, I guess I would hope that
Marcus lives like that, and I think
that's a good way to live actually.
Do you think, people in the
modern day who live like that?
I think you.
Or like that I sent that text
message, I for sure had sent
that text message to you.
Yes, absolutely.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
I don't remember you sending that.
I feel like you're someone who just, okay.
It's on the calendar.
I just show up like I do the
thing cuz I said I would and Yeah.
But I also definitely have the Sure.
So it's a spectrum.
Yeah.
Have the, oh wait, I'd
rather do this other thing.
Can I reschedule the one thing or, okay.
Oh, I don't feel like it.
What is the, so what is the correct.
Alien, stoic thing to
do in that situation.
Instead of sending the,
oh wait, I'm not sure.
Text.
You should just say either I'm all in
because I said I would be, or we're done.
It doesn't have to be, we're done.
But yeah, I think, or like another way
of looking at it is you get this feeling,
this itchy feeling last night, right?
Yeah.
Where you're like, oh, I don't
really want to do this tomorrow.
Maybe we could do it some other time.
And I think.
It's easy.
Because we have texting stuff, we could
just go, all right, fire something
off that maybe resolves my problem.
I didn't have to send a pigeon.
Yeah, you or a courier or whatever.
Yeah.
No man on a horse.
Yeah, exactly.
But you could, can you imagine
that as a man on a horse?
Yeah.
Oh, so at 2:00 AM someone
still eggs on my door?
Paul says he's interested in who
you are, also fine with Rachel.
Yeah.
Sunday morning would be fine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
I guess what I would say is that
you get this feeling right of
maybe I don't want to do this.
Maybe the really thing to do is to
sit with that feeling for a second
and say, why is it that I don't feel
like doing this tomorrow morning?
And either there's a good reason
in which case it is actually worth
rescheduling and or not, or whatever.
Huh?
Or you say, wait, it's
just because I'm being.
And I will later regret
having postponed this thing.
I was just being what
would be a good reason?
I can't imagine.
Like someone dies.
Or even wait a minute, this podcast
thing, I, oh, I don't like this.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Genuinely.
I think part of the reason you
might not wanna do it is because
it's not going well or whatever.
Not I'm I'm not saying that about
this podcast specifically, but in the
abstract, if you're putting something
off, it's maybe because you've committed
to something you don't like doing or
whatever, or you're not getting it out
of it what you wanted to get out of it.
To me that sounds like,
yeah, that sounds right.
And that sounds like he would
not cancel, he would just do
the thing he would say, I.
I said I would do this podcast and I said
I would wake up at four in the morning
every day to do my, my, my crunches.
Yeah.
And so I'm gonna do it.
But I don't think he would, once
he made a commitment like that,
he's committed to it forever.
I think he, there's some reasonable
bounds to say, no, this isn't
what I want to do anymore.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's fair.
Yeah.
Very alien.
Yeah, I guess so.
We have a new book today to start reading.
Oh.
Which is to say that's we're
started with, and it's confusing.
It's one book, but the
book is made up of books.
This is the third book within the book.
Meditations book of books.
Yeah, exactly.
Let's do it.
It has another very mysterious title.
I was really hoping at some point in book
two that we were gonna learn anything
about the River Grahame or the Kuai.
We learn about everything but six
layers of abstraction above the thing.
But it's so interesting that his,
the whole text is so abstracted.
And then the book titles
are super specific.
Yes.
A place.
Yeah.
Oh boy.
This is, this one is called Incar.
Where do you think that is?
Let's guess.
I think everyone wants us to guess.
Okay.
Carum.
What does that sound like to you?
It doesn't sound like Germany to me.
I agree.
It sounds, but also these are
Roman people naming German
things, so it could be Germany.
I think he just spents a
lot of time on that front.
Yeah.
That's also my concept of
what his life was like.
Yeah.
I don't even know what I, carum
doesn't, sounds like a made up
like it sounds more Roman than it
sounds Greek yeah I agree with that.
So it's probably not on the on
the eastern front or whatever.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay.
I guess I can't ignore
the Karn prefix there.
Maybe I'm just making both.
Both like or meat.
Meat or like carnival or the
dude, the things that get evoked
for me, right by this name.
Boy, I wonder if those are the same route.
Yeah.
I'd mean I have no idea.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Good.
Speculation.
We're in carum.
Excellent.
Yeah, let's kick it off.
This one.
I think we are, we've learned now that
the structure of all these chapters is.
A numbered list.
So this one too takes the
form of a numbered list.
Another thing to note, folks normally
we record with these fancy schmanzy
like microphone stands, right?
Today.
We're like rock stars.
We have our microphones in our hands.
Yeah.
Where we were kicked out of a
living room due to my wife's
event that she had planned.
So we're in this little bedroom Yeah.
Holding our mics like rock stars at if the
audio quality sounds worse, that's why.
Yeah.
And I think we have this interesting
moment where we could mic drop.
At 1.0 wow.
With the capability you want.
Are you concerned about that?
It's a particularly cool wine.
Okay.
We could mic drop and then
the episode would just be over
that, what you're imagining.
That's the time you would've
to come back for the next one.
Okay, boys?
Yeah.
So sit outta mind.
Yeah.
If, I guess you guys can check now,
how much time is left in this podcast?
Yes.
And work backwards from when
we're gonna do our sick mic drop.
We would not.
Or you might not.
Yeah.
There could be a trick.
Marcus will decide.
Yeah.
Or we could leave 10 minutes of
silence at the end of the episode to
trick you about when the mic drop.
So there you go.
So imagine us as rock stars.
Yeah.
We look like a due wedding
pop stars sitting here in our
chairs holding our microphones.
That's right.
Okay.
Number one, not just that every
day more of our life is used
up and less of it is left.
But this two, if we live longer,
Can we be sure our mind will still
be up to understanding the world,
to the contemplation that aims
at divine and human knowledge.
If our mind starts to wander, we'll
still go on breathing, go on eating,
imagining things, feeling urges and so
on, but getting the most out of ourselves,
calculating where our duty lies, analyzing
what we hear and see, deciding whether
it's time to call it quits, all the
things you need, a healthy mind for all
those are gone, so we need to hurry.
Not just because we move daily,
closer to death, but also because
our understanding, our grasp of the
world may be gone before we get there.
Okay.
So he's Good morning, Marcus.
Yeah.
Good morning, Marcus.
Yeah.
Good to have you back.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay so you're gonna you're going to
turn Sile and so that's the real clock.
He's basically making an argument
that There's less time than you think.
Yeah.
All the stuff I've said about how
life is fleeting and Im permanent.
Yeah it's actually even more,
it's even worse than that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because it's not even about your body,
it's about your ability to gr for your
mind to grasp and understand the world.
Yeah.
I think okay.
I have two reactions to this.
First of all, he does seem to be in
somewhat direct conversation with the
conversation we were just having about.
Commitments and whether, and
calling it quits, et cetera.
He says that he refers specifically
to using his rational mind to decide
when to call it quits on certain wow.
Behaviors, which I think, I
don't remember him saying that
in the past, like on a podcast.
Yeah.
He, yeah.
He's talking about analyzing whether or
not a podcast is worth continuing with.
Yep.
And you do need your healthy.
Rational mind, at some point
you'll just say, yep, no problem.
I'll be there.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
That's why we have all these,
and that will be the end.
So you have to hurrying scene aisle
podcasters who just keep recording.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So interesting.
Yeah.
He seems to be in conversation with us.
The other thing that I think is
interesting, or at least the sort
of complicates my understanding
of his philosophy a little bit
is the idea that we really need
this active mind to live and live.
So much of his philosophy is
about we're animals, we live
in accordance with nature.
But here he's saying no.
Once you're like highly
functional, top functional Yeah.
Your highest functions of your
brain no longer start functioning,
you're essentially dead.
Yeah.
So who cares?
That feels there.
Feels like there's some
tension to me there.
That's right.
Yeah.
I can't help but wonder.
So he uses, so he talks about
that and then he uses the line.
My favorite line of this one
is, so we need to hurry period.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Full paragraph break.
Yeah.
Just, it's just and I guess the
thing that I always feel like that's
a funny concept of there's no time.
We have to hurry.
Yeah.
But what are we hurrying toward?
What is the goal here?
Just to think some more.
We need some more time to think Yeah.
Scribble things down in our journals.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like he seems really obsessed with he
needs enough of that, strong minded time.
But yeah, I guess to scribble, yeah.
Okay, here's a, here's
another version of it.
You're Marcus.
You hang out with your brother
who does nothing but drink
and watch the chariot races.
And then you're like, this guy.
I see he can do that for three years
in a row if he like, he can do that
every day and do nothing at all.
Yeah.
There's no sense of urgency in his life.
I see.
And Marcus needs something
to be like, yeah, oh yeah.
The projects of my life.
I have to do them now.
I can't just hang out all day.
And so here he is
reminding himself of that.
He was like the last good emperor.
So maybe there's this sense of My
lifetime is the last one where good
stuff happens, and so I need to hurry.
Oh, that's interesting.
You think he knew that one during
his lifetime that everyone who
came after him was gonna suck?
I have a hard time imagining his son
was, at least by the history books such a
screw up that you have to imagine he knew.
Marcus seems sharp enough.
It's so fascinating to me
that this guy, this sharp guy.
I know.
Maybe, yeah.
There's probably a deep lesson
about life there and what you can
control and what you can't control.
Like this reflective guy who Yeah.
Yeah.
Who idolized all these men
who taught him and Yeah.
Came before him.
Boy, if there was anybody I would want
to train the future Emperor of Rome.
Yeah.
He seems like a pretty good.
Candidate.
Yeah.
And it's ev Yeah.
The historical consensus is
he totally blew it, right?
Yeah, totally blew it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He didn't hurry enough.
He just, yeah.
He took his time.
Yeah.
It is interesting that so
much of this text is about
this kind of sense of urgency.
Yeah.
But yeah.
To what?
To what end?
He's like defending the
border, but neglecting his son.
Yeah, totally.
And.
Yeah, it's curious that he just
needs to keep reminding himself.
It seems like it's so
front of mind all the time.
Don't rest on your laurels.
Yeah.
I wonder why.
Yeah, you're right.
So you're right.
Like to write this.
If we continue that sort of trope
of this is the counterbalance.
Yeah.
What's on the other side of the scale.
He, he had, he has wine brought in and
some senators come and visit him and he's
Come, goes home and he is there's no time.
I can't be spending my
time on frivolous things.
Like he, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I just Maybe it's hard for us as modern
Americans who are used to a certain
pace of change and stuff happening.
The, there's this option available
to Marcus to just do nothing all
the time and let life just continue.
I see in the form that the Roman
Empire already exists in, that's
pretty good by anyone's standards.
I see.
And so I think maybe
this is not just about.
Hurrying on a day-to-day basis.
It's like a bigger picture, no, we
have to do the things, make the changes
we are here to make or whatever.
I see.
Yeah.
That might be right actually
we may be unaware of just how
leisurely his life actually is.
Yeah.
Like he, he talks, he writes big
over here, but maybe it's actually,
he's still an emperor, yeah.
Yeah.
I It could also be like a military thing.
Two, I think we could just sit here
and, defensively position ourselves to
skirmish with these Germans on the border.
And we'll be here for the next 10 years.
Doing nothing.
That's true.
Or we could crush them and take
some risky action or whatever.
That's true.
That's true.
Yeah, but it is clearly, whatever
it is, it's very top of mind
for Marcus all the time to be
reminding himself Don't slow down.
Don't, it's so this is, don't chill.
This concept is totally, this concept is
the most it's a classic example of like
anxiety inducing with no end goal in mind.
There's no way to you can never.
Solve this problem.
If the sentiment is hurry Yeah.
With no abstract endpoint in mind.
It's just anxiety.
For the sake of anxiety,
you're too slowly.
Yeah.
It's impossible to, yeah.
It seems like the satisfy.
Yeah.
It seems like the worst kind
of contemplative journaling.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's so at odds with
contemplative journaling specifically.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Did he write this very quickly?
He just really?
Is pen sped up as he was
like, so we need to hurry.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Follow contradictions.
This guy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Okay.
Number two, we should remember that even
Nature's inadvertence has its own charm,
its own attractiveness, the way loaves
of bread split open on top in the oven.
The ridges are just byproducts
of the baking and yet pleasing.
Somehow they rouse our appetite
without our knowing why or
how ripe figs begin to burst.
Yes.
And olives on the point of falling.
The shadow of decay gives them a
particular epic peculiar beauty, stalks
of wheat bending under their own weight.
The furrowed brow of the lion.
What?
Flex of foam on the boar's
mouth and other things.
If you look at them in isolation,
there's nothing beautiful about them,
and yet by supplementing nature,
they enrich it and draw us in.
And anyone with a feeling for
nature, a deeper sensitivity
will find it all, gives pleasure.
Even what seems inadvertent, you'll
find the jaws of live animals as
beautiful as painted ones for sculptures.
He'll look calmly at the distinct beauty
of old age in men, women, and at the
loveliness of children and other things
like that will call out to him constantly.
Things unnoticed by others.
Things seen only by those at
home with nature and its work.
Wow.
Very new sentiment for Marcus.
What?
Okay.
Marcus is trying some poetry, or
now he's staying spirited away
right after he says there's no time.
Chill out, but also take time or sorry.
Hurry it up.
Hurry up.
But appreciate the beauty of boys.
All the little things.
Yeah.
The flex of foam on a bore's mouth.
Yeah.
Stop and look at that for a minute.
Yeah, he really seems to like jaws too.
I think it's three different references
to animals mouths, and it's possible.
Tom, we've had this highfalutin
notion of what he means by nature.
Yeah.
And he really just means
he likes going to the zoo.
He just means the zoom.
Yeah.
He literally likes the zoom.
Yeah.
Capital N nature means the zoo.
Oh, no.
Yeah.
This is an interesting one.
This one's amazing.
I love this.
I like it.
It makes me like him more.
In some ways it's very consistent with
here's a person who understands that
life is fleeting and We should just
enjoy the things we are given while
we're here and that kind of thing.
Sure.
And one of those refined tastes as he
points out if you are deeply sensitive to
nature, is to appreciate the beauty that's
around you all the time in all these.
Little details and stuff.
Yeah.
I do think it's the way
he chooses those details.
Feels like at first he's describing food
and I'm like, I'm so on board with you.
And then he just switches to furrowed.
Brow of lion.
Brow of the lion.
How many furrowed brows of lions?
This guy's terrifying.
Yeah.
And my favorite part of this too is
he's if you look at them in isolation,
there's nothing beautiful about them.
Yeah.
So I, which is a different sentiment, like
if this was Disney, it would be, aren't
the, loaves of bread cracking on the oven?
Yeah.
Beautiful songbirds, whatever.
And it, it would all
just be beautiful period.
But here it's, they're ugly,
but if you think about it Yeah.
That they're enhanced by nature.
Yeah, exactly.
In harmony with each other.
It draws us in.
Yeah.
It's like he's convincing himself or
something and he's a guy in general who's
so resistant to sensual pleasures, right?
Or everything we have is, should
be our minds and our process.
And now he's saying, but look
at all this beautiful stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're right.
He's got a fetish for animal jaws.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's got really into jaws of live animals.
He's find jaws of live animals as
beautiful as painted ones or sculptures.
Yeah.
Okay.
So he's got, he's comparing right.
Just the jaws in paintings.
Just do the jaws of live animals and
saying that's as, as good as that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's interesting, the emphasis on
pleasure here is very, it feels very
out of step that it seems like pleasure
is something that he usually is about
all about how pleasure misleads us
and we should try to forego pleasure.
And now it's but it's great.
Yeah.
I love this.
We, it's so at, he must
not be writing these.
In there's no world in which he
sat down in one session and wrote
the thing about there's no time.
And then look how beautiful nature is.
Yeah.
You wonder how many entries got scratched
out between number one and number two.
Totally.
These must have been totally different
days in totally different moods.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm concluding that Carum is a more
beautiful place or a more sure.
Than Oh, that might be true.
Yeah.
Like a, he's in a
different place now, right?
Yeah.
And so he's still entry one is still.
Urgency and maybe we just got here.
Yeah.
And now it's oh, look at these jobs.
Yeah.
Whoa.
Look at that bore.
Nice job.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe it is a carnival.
Yeah.
Maybe that's where we get the word from.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I'm suspicious of this
theory, but who knows?
Yeah.
Oh boy.
I'm seeing the first sentence
of number three, and it feels
like another nice non-sequitur.
So let's let's do it.
Let's do it.
Number three.
Hippocrates cured many illnesses
and then fell ill and died.
The childs predicted the deaths
of many others in due course.
Their own hour arrived Alexander.
Pompe Caesar, who utterly destroyed
so many cities, cut down so many
thousand foot and horse in battle.
They too departed this life.
Herra colitis often told us the
world would end in fire, but it
was moisture that carried him off.
He died smeared with cow shit.
Whoa.
Democratic was killed by ordinary
vermin, Socrates by the humankind.
And you boarded.
You set sail.
You've made the passage.
Time to disembark.
If it's for another life there's nowhere
without gods on that side either.
If to nothingness, then you no
longer have to put up with plain
pain and pleasure or go on dancing.
Attendance on this battered
crate your body so much inferior
to that which serves it.
One is mind and spirit, the
other earth and garbage.
Whoa.
I don't even follow that question.
What are the one and the other?
I think he's.
He's once again contemplating whether or
not the afterlife exists in the paragraph.
Okay.
Before that okay, so one is the
afterlife, the other is nothingness.
Yeah.
Which is earth garbage, other.
Yeah.
I don't, I really don't
follow that last bit.
Okay.
I guess that means he's rooting for
the possibility of the afterlife.
Okay.
So yeah, so everyone does
basically, Makes sense.
But the first paragraph is not just
that everyone dies, it's also that
all these great, there's irony.
Yeah.
It's exactly, it's a, it's the irony of
the deaths of these great men, basically.
So yeah, not only does everyone die,
but there's no dignity in death.
There's just, we're all, no
matter what you were in life, some
stupid thing is gonna kill you.
And it.
We will be probably totally
beneath your station.
It's just because you were great
doesn't mean your death will be Right.
Okay.
So he's thinking about
his own death again.
For sure.
Yeah.
Okay.
So one, one, good.
Look at a boar and none back to death.
Fuck.
Enough.
Enough pleasure for today.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Now let me remember how all
these great men were killed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It almost feels at some point
in that paragraph he's insulting
the men by saying that Yeah.
That her colitis was died.
Smeared with death.
Smeared with, yeah, exactly.
Seemed insulting to her colitis memory.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I guess he's, I wonder if he has
some particular death for himself
in mind, like maybe he, what's
the most ironic death for Marcus?
Maybe he was like consumed
by pleasure or something.
Yeah, exactly.
Just yeah.
Drank too much at a brothel.
Yeah, exactly.
That would be the most ironic.
That indeed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It does seem like he is worried
about how he will be remembered.
I feel like part of what he's
saying here is like, all these great
men who are remembered are also
remembered by the way that they died.
And so I am worried that, obviously I'm
gonna be remembered, but part of the
story of people will tell about me is
how I die and I can't control how I die.
So what do I do with that?
Man, he's so vain.
I agree that this feels vain.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, but I also, the last
paragraph I agree with him
where it's like, you know what?
Nothing.
Nothing to be done.
Nothing to be done.
Sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just live with it, buddy.
You're gonna die somehow
not under your control.
Yep.
There's a, if there's an afterlife, great.
The gods will be there, so
everything will be fine.
Yep.
If not, then earth and garbage.
Earth and garbage.
Yeah.
He says you no longer have to put up with
pain and pleasure, which is interesting.
Yeah.
He hates putting up with pleasure.
All those porn mouth.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't.
That part loses me a little bit where
the idea of, yes, the burden of putting
up with pleasure or going on dancing
attendance on this battered crate.
Oh yeah, that's classic Marcus.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He hates that.
Yeah.
Okay, great.
Let's see what the next
likes listicle holds.
Okay, this one's long, so feel
free to interrupt me while I okay.
Will do.
Read this one.
Don't waste the rest of your time
here worrying about other people.
Unless it affects the common good, it
will keep you from doing anything useful.
You'll be too preoccupied with what
is doing and why, and what they're
saying and what they're thinking
and what they're up to, and all the
things that throw you off and keep
you from focusing on your own mind.
You need to avoid certain
things in your train of thought.
Everything random.
Everything.
Irrelevant.
And certainly everything is
self-important or malicious.
You need to get used to winnowing
your thoughts so that if someone
says, what are you thinking about?
You can respond at once
and truthfully that you are
thinking this or thinking that.
Okay.
I'm gonna pause you there.
Yeah, totally.
I love that.
That's a very specific thing.
Yep.
I agree.
That's a, that is nice.
Specific advice.
That also sounds extremely
hard to do to me.
Me.
What do you.
So my wife and I do this often.
What are you thinking about?
Y Yeah, it'll be like, oh, someone's
like sitting and looking off into space.
Yeah.
My answer is always nothing.
And her answer is always very specific.
So she, I think she's embodies this.
She can always tell me
what she's thinking about.
When you say nothing, is it, is that, does
that really feel like the truth to you?
Or is it just because it's hard to
put into words what you're thinking.
Maybe it's the latter.
It's always like nothing in particular.
I guess I'm, yeah.
Your mind is just, my mind is
not like it's, I'm not going
down some path, I guess I'm not
doing what Marcus suggests here.
We should.
Yeah.
I'm just relaxing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How about you?
That's the truth for me too.
I think I, I don't get a asked
that question as frequently, but
I usually, my answer is, I have
to half fake the answer to turn it
into something that makes any sense.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Which is what, usually what I do, I
say, okay, I'm thinking about this
thing, which is actually what I was
thinking about like a minute ago.
Totally.
But it like turned into a whole thought.
Whereas the thing that is presently
going on makes no sense, in my mind,
could not even be put into words.
Yeah.
So you think it's a good idea to
do what he says here, to respond
so you don't respond truthfully.
Tom, you're a liar.
Yeah.
I feel like what that, the reason
I think this is difficult advice
to follow is because it requires
this like insane rigor of thought
that is just, sounds so exhausting.
It's also well structured that it
could instantly be put into words.
Yeah.
That's not how my mind works.
And maybe that's just my
own laziness or something.
He seems to be implying that
if your mind just wanders
around, then you're being bad.
Like you need to get rid of
the random and the irrelevant.
But I, to me, that's
not how the mind Yeah.
My mind works.
No, totally.
It seems like another example like stanza
one was a kind of an impossible ask.
Yeah.
Just there's no time.
Yeah.
And this one is also an impossible ask.
Like, how do you, can you imagine
don't think about anything.
It's like the opposite of what meditation
teaches you, where you're just sup
you're, you should Let yourself let
doors be opened but don't like, yeah.
Yeah.
Don't run in that any one direction.
Yeah.
Whereas he's saying, no, never meditate.
Yeah.
That's interesting because yeah.
He is saying, yes, control
your thoughts at all time.
Don't just let your mind do what it's
going to do and react to what it's doing.
But he is, and in another way, this does
feel like, like the highest order, like
it's like self-actualized mind function.
Where if you could really be this
metacognitive or whatever, like
constantly thinking about what
you're thinking about, then you have
like totally mastered your brain.
This guy.
Yeah.
So ridiculous.
Yeah.
It, I agree with you about this
feeling unattainable as well.
I.
I wonder to what extent he knows he's
writing down these unattainable things.
And the point is the point of the exercise
is to like, even if you live 10% Yeah.
More like this than you're doing better,
as opposed to he truly believes in a
hundred percent adherence to the things
he's writing in his journal, yeah.
There they're, I guess they're supposed
to be like weirdly motivational.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
But boy, yeah, this one seems
impossible too, to just to constantly
control your thoughts at all times.
Yeah.
I wonder why a, again, maybe because he's
got a million distractions in his life.
So for him in particular, like pruning
out all the distractions and just
focusing on what's in front of him is
especially important because he could
be thinking about the a hundred other
problems facing Rome or the 30 other Yeah.
Things he had to adjudicate yesterday.
I guess that's true.
He could be talking about it less in a
personal sense and more in a work sense.
Yeah.
And it circles back, I think, to my
attitude that a lot of the advice that.
Marcus Gibb here is very good advice.
Specifically for the Emperor of Rome.
Yeah.
And maybe not good advice for the
average person or not doable advice.
That's true.
Okay.
So we're picking up from, if someone
says, what are you thinking about?
You can respond at once and truthfully
that you were thinking this or that.
And it would be obvious at once from
your answer that your thoughts were
straightforward and considerate once
the thoughts of an unselfish person,
one unconcerned with pleasure and
with central indulgence generally.
With squabbling, with slander and
envy or anything else that you'd
be ashamed to be caught thinking.
Okay, so not only do you need to
control every thought you have,
they all have to be good thoughts.
Yeah.
They all have to be highly moral.
No bad thoughts, ethical thoughts.
Yeah.
This is, again, two paragraphs after the.
It's the one about how beautiful
nature is and if you just sit with it,
you can notice all sorts of pleasure
in speck of foam on a bore's mouth
back to business, but you're never
allowed to think that because at any
given moment that would be a thing.
You're ashamed to be caught
thinking because that's pleasure.
Yeah.
Tom, that's one of the evils of the world.
Exactly.
It's certainly fits in the category
of sensual indulgence generally.
Yes.
I think that he's identifying, yeah.
All those animal jaws.
Okay, someone like that.
Someone who refuses to put off joining
the elect is a kind of priest, a
servant of the gods in touch with what
is within him, and what keeps a person
undefiled by pleasures in vulnerable
to any pain, untouched by arrogance,
unaffected by meanness, an athlete
in the greatest of all contests.
The struggle not to be overwhelmed
by anything that happens.
With what leaves us died
indelibly by justice.
Welcome, welcoming wholeheartedly,
whatever comes, whatever we're assigned.
Not worrying too often or with
any selfish motive about what
other people say or do or think.
So this is self-actualization.
Yeah, he is.
He's I think it, I appreciate that
in the first sentence of this little
paragraph, he's at least acknowledging
that this person is like super.
Difficult to be sure.
You're like, yeah, he's
in touch with the gods.
He's a kind of priest.
Sure, whatever.
Okay.
He's gonna keep describing this guy.
He does only what is his to do
and considers constantly what
the world has in store for him.
Doing his best and trusting that
all is for the best, for, we carry
our fate with us and it carries us.
He keeps in mind that all
rational things are related.
And that to care for all human beings
is part of being human, which doesn't
mean we have to share their opinions.
We should listen only to those whose
lives conform to nature and the others.
He bears in mind what sort of
people they are, both at home and
abroad by night as well as day,
and who they spend their time with.
And he cares nothing for their praise.
Men who can't even meet
their own standards.
Okay.
I think we're rambling
just a little bit here.
Mark.
Yes.
I think this is a little more
unfocused as far as his batteries go,
he's back to the, ignore the haters.
Yeah.
He really yes.
He seems to have an ax to grind with
some, or like he's angry with someone
or really has to justify why he doesn't
need to listen to certain people in
his life because they can't even.
L live up to their own standards.
So why should he have to
Yeah, probably his bro care.
Care about their expectations.
His bro's Hey Marcus, you should
try to have more fun, man.
Enjoy your life a little bit.
You're not gonna be emperor forever.
And he's I don't need to listen to him.
Cuz he doesn't even, he hates himself
or real, he needs his own standards.
Yeah.
Okay.
He keeps in mind that all rational
things are related and that to care for
all beings is a part of being human.
That seems like it's very Disney
a new sentiment for him, I think.
I don't really remember this notion that,
We have to care for the whole rational
world before, or he's giving himself an
excuse for why he cares about whole rat.
Yes.
Yeah.
I'm just human.
It's normal to care about other humans.
So this is puppy dog Marcus again.
Yeah.
But also it's okay to ignore them
when they're making you mad because
these assholes can't even do anything.
And so you don't have
to care about therapy.
It's not my, it's not my
fault for caring for them.
Yeah.
But, so I should remember
that some of them are trash.
Yeah.
It is okay to have both a big
heart and ignore people basically.
Is what, yeah.
Okay.
That's what does feel very
more so than the other ones.
Just a lot defensive, I think, and
about rationalizing his own Yeah.
Behavior that we don't get to see.
Okay.
I really like Animal Jaw Marcus
more than death and jealousy.
Denial.
I agree.
Yeah.
I feel like.
That's gonna be the part, the
entry in this chapter so far that
sticks with me the most is Oh yeah.
Weird glimpse into what
he likes in the room.
That's right.
Is this the first thing we've
heard that things he really likes?
I guess he, all the rest have been
phrased in terms of like denials.
Don't get too caught up in chariot racing.
Were the quail fighting.
Yeah.
Quail fighting or whatever.
This might be the first, like first
leisurely activity straight up.
Wow.
This stuff's beautiful.
Yeah.
No cherry racing.
No quill fighting.
Yeah.
No book reading.
But boy, a good glance at an
animal Joe, every once in a while
watching that bread crack open.
Oh, holy shit.
All right.
Markers.
Yeah.
But yeah that's a nice
little Not Easter egg.
Exactly, but he's just giving us
this tiny little breadcrumb trail
of here's the real guy underneath
all the sort of cold philosophizing.
Yeah.
Let's do this one and wrap up.
Wrap up.
Yeah.
Number five, how to act the, maybe
the most, Marcus, there you go.
If you're gonna introduce a bullet
point with three words, maybe
the most Marcus possible three
words to choose how to act Sure.
Could be the name of the book.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And here it's a list.
Never under compulsion,
out of selfishness.
Without forethought.
With misgivings.
Don't gussy up your thoughts.
I love that.
Gussy up.
No surplus words or unnecessary actions.
Let the spirit in you represent a man,
an adult, a citizen, a Roman, a ruler,
taking up his post like a soldier, and
patiently awaiting his recall from life.
Needing no oath or witness.
Cheerfulness without requiring
other people's help or serenity
supplied by others to stand
up straight, not straightened.
Okay.
Yeah, look the charitable
version of all this is control
the things you can control.
My only job is to stand up straight and
be cheerful and Don't use surplus words,
everything else will take care of itself.
Yeah.
And that is a nice sentiment
that we already believe in.
He's got some nice terms of phrase
here though that I think are maybe
more succinct expressions of stuff.
He's ideas he's expressed before.
I think I like that last one, for
instance, to stand up straight,
not straightened, meaning that
you are, you're standing up
straight by your own choice Sure.
As opposed to because
somebody told you to do it.
Sure.
That's true.
Yep.
It reminds me of, I, I forget exactly
the, how this was phrased in the
first book, but there was some guy
who he praised for essentially always
seeming like he was in charge and
Situations didn't befall this guy.
He created he made all his own decisions.
This reminds me of that a little bit.
Sure.
Don't play, don't be the victim.
Yeah.
Be the author of your own life.
Don't just let it happen to you.
Yeah.
Or whatever.
That's an empowering sentiment.
I like it.
Yeah.
He, there is more explicit
martial glorification going on.
That's true.
That he typically does, I think
taking up his post like a soldier and
patiently awaiting his recall from wife.
Yeah.
Something I think I was maybe expecting
more at the outset of us reading.
Yeah, I was really hoping for more.
Examples in general, but we like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The no surplus words, hard not to
think of him as a hypocrite on that for
That's so true.
The fact that he thinks that this
text no, to every single word
is a streamlined That's right.
Every single word that could
be removed has been removed.
Okay.
Yep.
There is nothing redundant
in this entire time.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
That's right.
Yeah.
Okay.
It's us mere mortals who don't understand
why every word was placed there.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
We couldn't do without a single
one of these bulleted points.
Within a list.
Within a list.
Within a list, yep.
Basically.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah.
I really like Gussy up.
I know that's a sort of a function
of the translation, but it's a
wonderful turn of phrase too.
Yeah.
That seems like the fun moment
as a translator where you don't,
you're like, you know what phrase
I could use to translate this?
I could say, don't guss,
don't gussy up your thoughts.
That's that's the kind of moment
that makes translation worth it.
I'm an artist too.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It definitely hits my
ear as a fun sentence.
Yeah.
As well.
I'll try that on someone.
The phrase gussy up.
Don't gussy up your thoughts.
Don't guss, don't gussy
up your thoughts with me.
Yeah.
We haven't talked about him too much, but
the translator, this Hayes guy, he's cool.
Yeah.
I'm really enjoying this translation.
It does make this, not that
I've read any other translation.
Yeah.
But the text does feel.
Pretty readable, but, and some of the
sentence structure is so convoluted
that I suspect a bad translation
would be like, nearly unreadable
because the sentences are so weird.
Un rambly.
Yeah.
But yeah, so I guess
our hats off to you, mr.
Hayes.
Thank you Mr.
Hayes.
Yeah.
All right.
Should we sign off there?
Do you want it?
Mic drop.