Small Business Month - Passion and determination

Greater Vancouver Board of Trade President and CEO Bridgitte Anderson speaks with Gourmet Warehouse Founder Caren McSherry about launching her dream business.

What is GVPOD - Greater Vancouver's Business Podcast?

GVPOD is the podcast of the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade. President and CEO Bridgitte Anderson talks to leaders in the business community about the challenges and opportunities they experience, as well as issues impacting our region.

0:00:00.0 S1: [BRIDGITTE] Hello everyone, and welcome to GVBOT Greater Vancouver’s business podcast exploring the challenges and opportunities faced in our region. I'm Bridgitte Anderson, President and CEO of the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade. October is small business month and our episodes of the podcast this month, are brought to you by our pillar partner, RBC, a passion for food fueled a Vancouver small business that has become a staple for foodies. Gourmet Warehouse is an icon in culinary circles. As is its founder, Caren McSherr. Caren, thanks for joining me today.

0:00:35.5 S2: [CAREN] My pleasure. Thank you for the invite.

0:00:38.1 S1: [BRIDGITTE] Now, full disclosure, for those listeners Caren and I are dear friends, and we've known each other for many years, Caren, I know your story, and I think it is a fabulous story of an entrepreneur. So I'd like you to share your story with our listeners. So maybe let's begin at the beginning. How did you start this journey?

0:00:59.1 S2: [CAREN] Oh boy, it started a very long time ago. I used to be in back in the day, a flight attendant for CP Air, and those that know the iconic airline will go, Oh, I wish it was still here, and I knew that I couldn't push cookies behind the cart for the rest of my days, and I always had this incredible passion for food, so while going to all the beautiful places that I flew to, I would experiment and go to the markets, and then finally decided that, Hey, I can get to all these schools that I want to go to, 'cause I had this passion to open a cooking school, and so I would use my passes and my vacation time, and I would fly to Italy and Portugal and France and Thailand and Japan, and I would go to the cooking schools while all my great fly buddies were going to phuket and having fun or going to beach resorts, and I was going to business schools. Working and loving it, came home and still flying and on the part-time opened a cooking school called Caren's cooking school that was in... Oh dear, I hate to say the number...

0:02:08.4 S2: [CAREN] We'll just say a lot of years ago, and I did these cooking classes out of my kitchen for a very, very long time, and fast forward, got married, and then I sort of thought maybe I could start... People would complain about the prices of Gourmet food, and the person that I married was a food importer, and so I knew the true cost, and I said, I need to start selling some of these things to my students, and so I did, and then a little turned into a lot, and finally I opened a small little store in the back lane of Victoria and Pandora Street, and it was tiny, and I would sell things after my cooking classes, and it just became more popular and more popular, and people love the food aspect, and I was really unsure about the hardware, and I'll never forget my very first hardware purchase was, I think maybe I could buy six sets of measuring cups and six of measuring spoons, and that's all I can do because I'm very nervous here. Anyways, that is a joke now, because from this company, I actually... I buy so much, not six, but thousands of items, so it really just sort of organically evolved in how I did it, I was very careful...

0:03:30.4 S2: [CAREN] I run by this phrase that fear is your best motivator because if you're scared, you work, and when you work, everything sort of comes together. You can't just have it. Lackadaisical, you have to be very determined. And when you're poor and you're scared, it works...

0:03:50.5 S1: [BRIDGITTE] I remember going to that store in the back alley there, and it was tiny, you're right. And fast forward to where you are now on Hastings and Clark, and that's a big footprint, so how long have you been in that space?

0:04:04.3 S2: [CAREN] We moved here and it was just too small and I needed sort of a store front, and back in the day... This was actually awful. I remember going to City Hall, It was about 2003, and the fellow there, I was asking for my permit and he said, Lady, you'll look pretty decent to me to the last area you wanna be in, that building has been arrested for a grow up. It is a disaster, they do everything in there that is not right, and I went, I'm gonna change the neighborhood, and he said, You've got a big, lofty idea and it's never gonna work. Here's your permit, and I feel sorry for you.

0:04:46.0 S1: [BRIDGITTE] But you know you have been part of that overhaul change, transformation of that area known as Strathcona and East Hastings business district. I think you kind of fall into a few different areas, it really has changed.

0:05:01.8 S2: [CAREN] It has when I was here, it was terrible. I did little by little, it's a big building and I couldn't afford to do much, so I only could take a little portion of it at a time, renovate it, and then when I had the money, I would move and get a little bit bigger. I am the complete opposite of most... One of the entrepreneurs that jump in with a giant loan and then they've got the loan to worry about, they've got their clientele to build up, they've got everything that they wanna do, that the overwhelming hurdles they have to jump is too much, and I always would never buy more than I could afford. And that was how I grew slow but sure, and I never had that worry that I couldn't afford it ever, so it was really important that I did it that way, and it paid off in my long run.

0:05:55.6 S1: [BRIDGITTE] So... Fear was a big motivator for you. In the beginning, what were some of the biggest challenges that you faced

0:06:03.4 S2: [CAREN] In this neighborhood, sending off all the people that wanted to come in and steal from me, which is still a very... It's worse now than it was 20 years ago. The biggest challenges were trying to keep everything trendy and fresh and be the first to offer it and to have it, and that was my saving grace, 'cause I really knew food trends, and I knew what was coming and what was going... And I was the first to know when to get rid of things and when to move on and always be the first to offer it. My cooking classes were always sold out, and that was a really positive part for me because I had these great... These 30 people that were active on everything I did and what I cooked, they wanted to cook, what I used, they wanted to use, and so... This is fabulous, and if I did it in IT, they tasted it and it was delicious. Then that was how it was gonna go. And so for me, being one of the forefront leaders in cooking classes since like the 80s, that was my win, and I parlayed that into this

[Bridgitte] Now, 20 years ago, that area of East Van, as you say, I think was quite different than it is now, and there was a period of revitalization and a real community, but lots of business owners, whether they're in East Vancouver or in Gaston, are talking about the kinds of issues that are plaguing them now around public and crime and vandalism. How have you been navigating that?

0:07:32.2 S2: [CAREN] With a lot of trouble, we hire security, but you have to know that in security is expensive, so you have to say, Am I being stolen more than the security guard is gonna save me, or where's the balance? It is more difficult now than it was 20 years ago, just yesterday, broad daylight, a big boulder came through our front window, and the guy just strolled by in his hoodie, nothing didn't care, just when this giant side Boulder went right through our front window, so it's now all forted up. It troubles me because 20 years ago when I moved in, it wasn't delightful, but at least it was manageable, it wasn't rampant crime like it is now, and I don't have the answer except that our judicial system has to get tougher because they're gonna lose small businesses 'cause no one can really afford to have these things continually happen and happen and happen, and it's sad 'cause I love my city, I was born and raised here. This is home for me.

0:08:44.4 S1: [BRIDGITTE] And businesses like you are having to deal with the cost, paying the cost of the stealing and the vandalism. And that's a lot for a small business.

0:08:55.0 S2: [CAREN] It is terrific. I'm fortunate that I'm bordering on small to medium, so I have a little bit more play and I've been around long enough and I've been careful enough in my what I do, but still it doesn't bode well when you go out at night, when it's dark, especially now, and your back lane, your parking lot is full of people setting up shop every difficult.

0:09:23.5 S1: [BRIDGITTE] Fast forward or I guess it's rewind, rewind to March of 2020. And it was the pandemic, and you know that in some ways was a re-awakening for a lot of people on the hobbies and the things that they love, like cooking, it was also a difficult time for retailers and a lot of stores because things close down. What did it mean for you?

0:09:48.8 S2: [CAREN] Well, I guess embarrassingly, it was really good for us.

0:09:57.5 S1: [BRIDGITTE] Did you have to accelerate your digital business, your e-commerce to be able to navigate the restrictions.

0:10:04.9 S2: [CAREN] I am not as techy as I wish I were, but I'm smart enough to know, and this is what all business owners should know... No, it's great to know what you're good at, but it's more important to know what you're not good at and what you're not good at, you better find somebody who is, 'cause they can steer you down that path of success, you can spout off all you know that doesn't change anything. So I was clever enough to hire the most fantastic webmaster, he... started coming down the line. He was the one that said, Okay, we're ramping up. I never have worked so hard in my life as I did those two years because we were considered an essential service because we sold food, and I watched how the trends, first of all, everybody in their brother, sister, cousin and uncle was a ordered... Yeah, and then when the bread... Couldn't get yeast if your life depended on it, and then it went from bread to, I'm gonna make pasta, then we couldn't get a pasta machine to save our life, then from pasta, it went to curing meats and people were just finding all these things to protect their mental integrity and keep them at home with interest.

0:11:21.1 S2: [CAREN] So for me, I like to say it was embarrassingly good for us, I worked really hard, I worked 12 hours a day, 'cause I was fulfilling online orders, I would even deliver myself to make people happy, so you give people what they want and they're loyal back.

0:11:41.5 S1: [BRIDGITTE] So now, coming out of the pandemic, if indeed that's where we are fingers crossed, I certainly hope we are, what is business-like now, because lots of people are out at restaurants again and things have sort of returned to normal. What's been the impact on your business?

0:11:57.7 S2: [CAREN] It has definitely dipped. And that is to be expected. People wanna bring their frying pan back and they never wanna use it again, eating don't want... I wanna throw this bread machine anywhere, but I don't want it, so I understand it. They are cooked out, they have no interest, they wanna sit on a deck, they wanna have a glass of wine with a friend, they'd wanna go anywhere, but their kitchen... And I get it. And it was a tough, I guess, six months. And Thanksgiving is always our turning point because Thanksgiving is historically the one meal where the families come together after the summer, you know Mom's cooking, the kids come home from school. Blah, blah, blah. Everybody's sitting at the table, and for us, that's why I hope that you all went out your roasting pans to somebody that you can't remember who you lent it to and you need a new one, and that's my win-win that...

0:12:54.9 S1: [BRIDGITTE] But you're also evolving your business, and I know this because we're friends, so you are moving a little beyond the culinary now, so talk about your strategy there. Where do you see the market going?

0:13:07.2 S2: [CAREN] When I see people that are cooked out and I get it, I am a bit of an odd ball because I love to cook every day, but most people don't, and I understand that, and I know that everybody that walks in my store is not a cook, and they're kind of pacing and they're with somebody that love isn't this great? Oh my god, isn't is fantastic. And they're kinda going, It's okay, I'd rather be somewhere else. So I decided to take a portion of the store and turn it into a kind of decor home decor and style, so that's what we've got, so things that will spruce up your living room, your bedroom, your bath room, and really cool things like cashmere throws and beautiful napkins and things that you don't have to be a cook for to enjoy, and as…

[Bridgitte] We've all been looking at our housing or furniture or household decor for the last three years and maybe looking to switch it up.

[Caren] Yes, so we've just gone crazy on gorgeous candles, 'cause you don't have to be a cook or an on-click to love a good candle, and it's a great hostess gift, so we've got lots of that kind of thing, we've got decor for the table, we've got candlesticks we've got everything that is non-cooking, but it will never, ever be the focus of our store because that is my, sort of..

0:14:31.8 S2: [CAREN] That's our baby. That's what we do, we have 122 different vinegar, 113 oils. We have, for bakers, I think we have 215 different flavors, colors and emotions, so there's no one that can do that can offer that you couldn't just start this up because it takes years of curating vendors and bringing things in and understanding it. I just wish the red tape of government wasn't so in everybody's business and we could just do our business, but it is what it is, and I'm not about to change it.

0:15:08.5 S1: [BRIDGITTE] What kind of red tape is the most bothersome for you, Caren?

0:15:13.5 S2: [CAREN] I think for us, it's the always submitting. There's a new thing now out by CFIA that it's called Fresh or good food or Safe Food for Canadians, and so every single thing that walks in our door has to have 15 certifications in order for us to sell it, and it's a 12-page document for one thing, for one thing, let's say we bring in a hot sauce, the documentation is massive

0:15:42.0 S1: [BRIDGITTE] I remember the red tape you went through in just doing some renovations in your store, so having to be in the city of Vancouver, and the city is trying to make some changes on that, and there's also a change in City Hall, so hopefully the message will be delivered that it needs to be easier for businesses to operate.

0:16:01.0 S2: [CAREN] I could never stress that enough, I'm a bit on the bigger side, so I can hire somebody to help me with the red tape, but if you're not... You can't run your business, you can't buy, you can't merchandise, you can't sell, you can't train you can’t be in front of the customer, making them feel good that they came to you and do all of that, and that's why you're seeing all these small independence just saying, I can't do it anymore. And I hope I'm wrong, but I don't wanna see the day where our only choices to shop will be Walmart, Costco - the big Brands, and I see it because if we don't keep shopping local, there's no way that these little mom and pop stores can survive the independence can survive and they work so hard, they work long hours, and it's brutal, I mean, the laws just keep pounding it on to the employer, and it makes it so difficult, they just close their doors.

0:17:01.8 S1: [BRIDGITTE] Yeah, very, very challenging. There's no question and perfect time to have this conversation in small business month. So you've been doing this a long time, and you've been part of the community a long time. What is the future of gourmet warehouse for you? Where do you see the future of the company? What's next?

0:17:25.4 S2: [CAREN] So what's next? My focus is to continually keep my 70 people, 70 plus people employed. My future is to try to make their employment here as fruitful as possible, to try to pay the best wages I can pay, and to try to acknowledge and keep their morale up so that they don't leave for 50 cents an hour and then come back. They do leave and then they come back, I'm really big on morale-boosting for my employees, 'cause I could never do it without them, they are the most important part of the brand, because without them... I'm nothing I'm one person, I can't run this. Back in the day, I was a one-man band. It was easy, but I didn't have 20000 different escuses to purchase in merchandise and deal with, so they are my future. People ask me if I'll branch out, but until the labor situation changes, how could I ever dream of opening another store when we are trying to keep this together with people... So.. go ahead.

0:18:31.8 S1: [BRIDGITTE] No, go ahead, Karen.

0:18:34.3 S2: [CAREN] Our future is to stay strong, to try to keep prices as competitive possible, because I just hate to see people not eat well and I them to eat well for less, that's my deal. So I always try to buy and bring in direct... I was just at a food show in Paris to try to bring things in that are... That's no middle man, so that you can get the best French product at the best price without having to feed three people in the middle of that.

0:19:03.5 S1: [BRIDGITTE] And you also strongly believe in giving back and supporting community. Has that always been a part of your business plan? Always.

0:19:11.8 S2: [CAREN] 'cause if you don't, you've gotta feel empty inside because if you've been dealt three aces, you gotta give an ace away, you've just got to... So we used to have this great charity called the chocolate challenge, which was an amazing event with to all the best chocolate chefs in the city, and we would create this whole thing and we would give them to various different Strathcona backpack program, and we would give them to growing chefs. Growing chefs and firefighters. So now we've created because that all went by the by, so then we contacted the fire department, got some imaging, and we decided that feeding kids is a staple, olive oil as a staple of ours. So what we did was we got an image of the firefighters with children and we created an olive oil for them...

0:20:01.3 S1: [BRIDGITTE] I know it well, it's in my kitchen.

0:20:03.3 S2: [CAREN] Now, so what we do instead of that BS, pardon my French, of part proceeds, which annoys me more than anything, because you don't know what part proceeds, is it part proceeds of the cork or part proceeds of what? So we say we will give for every bottle sold four dollars of every bottle that we sell to the firefighters ‘Snacks for Kids’ program. So I think we're at about 8000 or 9000 in giving them, and it's sort of our continual one because people continue to buy it, and as the prices of Olive Oil and bottles and labels and go up, it doesn't matter, 4 will still go to that charity. And that keeps me relevant to what we do as well as other things that come up, I mean, I get requests, I get about five requests a month for gift baskets and what I... Could I please that kind of thing? And we pretty much fulfill them all, if they're to do with children, because I feel that if you help children, you help break that cycle, that circus wheel with the mouse in it, if you don't help kids, they can't get out of the wheel.

0:21:17.8 S2: [CAREN] So if they go to school with food in their tummy and to help, and if I can help with food release, I will...

0:21:27.6 S1: [BRIDGITTE] I could talk to you forever. And this has been such a great conversation, but I don't wanna leave without giving you an opportunity to provide some advice, some support, some motivation to those entrepreneurs out there who are thinking of starting their own business or in the midst of growing their business, what do you think has been the most important lessons that you could pass on to them.

0:21:52.6 S2: [CAREN] Be patient, be passionate about what you do, because if you're not passionate about you, what you do, you will lose interest in... You will lose your business, so you have to love it, come hell or high water, because usually Hell comes and then the high water sinks you, so you have to be passionate and you have to put in the time if you can get yourself a mentor, don't be afraid or ashamed to ask. Ever, I mentor two people a month, of two people a year and I carry them through and I help them with everything from packaging and everything that they need to know, I help people get book deals, everything, so get yourself a mentor in the field that you're in, and don't lose sight and do not ever bite off more than you can chew. Do not go to the bank, get a massive line of credit and then can't pay it back, and then they own your business and all for not... Go slow that story of the Tortoise and the hare, be the toroitse, and be patient. And you will win.

0:22:55.3 S1: [BRIDGITTE] Caren, thank you so much for taking some time with us today. Really appreciate it.

0:23:00.5 S2: [CAREN] My pleasure, always. I hope this helps somebody somewhere.

0:23:04.6 S1: [BRIDGITTE] Thanks so much and thanks again to our pillar partner, RBC for sponsoring the podcast during small business month, check back again next Thursday and we'll have a new episode on our podcast.