Lounge Lizards - a Cigar and Lifestyle Podcast

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Recorded at Ten86 Cigars in Hawthorne, New Jersey, the lizards pair Paul Garmirian Gourmet Series 25th Anniversary in Belicoso with thirteen year aged K+L Exclusive Trois Rivières Agricole Rum. The guys find themselves perplexed by the flavor notes in the cigar, they explore the rich histories of both pairings in detail and they revisit the plume vs. mold debate.

Join the Lounge Lizards for a weekly discussion on all things cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban), whiskey, food, travel, life and work. This is your formal invitation to join us in a relaxing discussion amongst friends and become a card-carrying Lounge Lizard yourself. This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.

website/merch/rating archive: loungelizardspod.com
email: hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
instagram: @loungelizardspod
Gizmo HQ: LizardGizmo.com

What is Lounge Lizards - a Cigar and Lifestyle Podcast?

Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
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The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.​

This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
​
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!

Gizmo:

Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica 5. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight, I'm joined by Rooster, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, and Bam Bam.

Gizmo:

And I plan us to smoke a cigar, drink some rum, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 100 69th official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. It is here once a week. We're gonna smoke a New World Cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rate. We find ourselves perplexed by the flavor notes in this cigar.

Gizmo:

We explore the rich histories of both pairings in detail, and we revisit the plume versus multibate, all among a variety of other things for the next 2 hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar and enjoy, as we pair 13 year old K and L exclusive Toit Riviera's single barrel Agricole rum with the Paul Garmirian gourmet series 25th anniversary in Belicoso. Dominican Bellicoso tonight on the pod. This is the Paul Garmirian Gourmet Series 25th anniversary in Bellicoso, and it's a 52 ring gauge cigar by 6 and 1 quarter inches long. And, boys, I had never heard of Paul Garmirion.

Gizmo:

I know that Rooster's had them before.

Bam Bam:

In the seventies. In the seventies.

Gizmo:

But I I was so intrigued by this story, and I can't wait to talk about this guy tonight. This is going to be I think this is gonna be a real surprise and a treat for us.

Bam Bam:

You know, honestly, I saw the band, and I just half looked at it. I thought it said 25¢ at the bottom, not 25th.

Gizmo:

What was your comment on the bands, senator?

Senator:

The band looks like a 12 year old made it with an inkjet printer. I mean, this is

Bam Bam:

It looks like a 711 cigar.

Senator:

Elementary of a band as I've seen. I the secondary band is the worst one. This looks like a Microsoft Word template.

Bam Bam:

That's what I'm saying. I'm

Rooster:

so sorry. Band is is it's very simple, but the the the primary band is not I mean, it's okay.

Senator:

It's fine. It's okay.

Bam Bam:

The aroma on the wrapper is delicious, I have to admit.

Gizmo:

It is. You know what? Honestly, the foot smells Cuban to me.

Bam Bam:

I I like

Senator:

foot, I'm getting a ton of barnyard. Barnyard.

Bam Bam:

Oh, yeah. Which I I kinda like.

Senator:

Like, not the cleanest barn. The wrapper's kinda

Pagoda:

just better.

Gizmo:

Yeah. The wrapper's

Senator:

way better.

Gizmo:

The wrapper's really nice too. It's oily, dark.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. I've never heard of this cigar. I've never had it.

Gizmo:

Well, here we are tonight, boys.

Bam Bam:

Alright.

Rooster:

These have been around for a while.

Gizmo:

Yeah. Long time. Yeah. Yeah. Forties, fifties.

Gizmo:

Let's cut this thing, boys.

Senator:

Twenties, forties. Super got

Gizmo:

a cold draw. And the wrapper.

Bam Bam:

Will you set yourself up for that one?

Gizmo:

Wide open. Draws great.

Senator:

Jeez. Really open.

Bam Bam:

A little too too open. Pretty nice cold draw. Sweet. Prune. Getting prune.

Gizmo:

I'm getting almost like a hint of cream on the cold draw.

Chef Ricky:

Wow. Like,

Gizmo:

actually Like a lactic type.

Bam Bam:

You do it. It's like raspberry for me.

Senator:

Pico, did you take off enough of the, on the cigar?

Bam Bam:

Can I see?

Gizmo:

Holy smokes. Straight.

Pagoda:

No. I I took a little You ruined the cigar.

Senator:

Look at the comparison.

Pagoda:

I I took a little bit off, and then I took a little bit additional off.

Bam Bam:

He's gonna start Yeah. Humidity lights.

Pagoda:

No. I just wanted to make sure there was enough smoke out for today.

Bam Bam:

Holy cow.

Chef Ricky:

This is why he needs to be cut.

Bam Bam:

I can't recognize it as a beer man now.

Gizmo:

So I love the cold draw.

Bam Bam:

I do too. The longer you go, the more you get more and more razz it develops into a raspberry for me.

Rooster:

Can you do a retrohale on the cold

Bam Bam:

run? No. I need smoke for that.

Gizmo:

Speaking of smoke, boys, let's light this thing.

Rooster:

The Paul So better.

Gizmo:

Garmirian 25th anniversary in Belicoso. Again, it's from the Dominican Republic. 52 ring gauge cigar by 6 and 1 quarter inches long. The debut of Paul Garmirian on the podcast tonight. This specific cigar, like I said, we'll go through the story.

Gizmo:

This specific cigar was released in September 2024. Only 200 boxes were made available of 20 cigars. 4,000 total cigars of this Vitola. There are 2 others we'll talk about. And, of course, there are a bunch of other Paul Garmirian cigars you can find.

Gizmo:

And, he has a really intriguing story, so stay tuned for that.

Bam Bam:

Did you tell us how much the cigar was?

Gizmo:

So this cigar is right around $25.

Senator:

Holy cow.

Chef Ricky:

That's expensive. Is it servicing a charity

Bam Bam:

or something?

Gizmo:

Good. Well, I think the idea is that it's boutique. And what I love about Paul is he he is a Cuban cigar fanatic. And like you do when you have to buy a cigar from Cuba, a box of cigars, you have to let them rest. He ages his tobacco.

Gizmo:

They roll them. They box them, and then he'll age them for long periods of time before release.

Chef Ricky:

Mhmm.

Gizmo:

So I believe these cigars or this tobacco was harvested in 2015 ish, and they didn't come out for almost 10 years. So quite a bit of age on these.

Bam Bam:

This is good off the leg. Mhmm.

Senator:

And so you're saying when this first came out, there were only 200 boxes?

Gizmo:

This cigar this Vitola, there were only 200 boxes available, 20 cigars each. 4000 total cigars came out in September of 24, so only 5 or 6 months ago.

Rooster:

Are you sure on that? Yeah. This particular patola, only 200 boxes were made? Correct.

Gizmo:

That's so little. Really? Yep. That's bizarre. Released in September 24.

Gizmo:

There are two other sizes in this line, the PG 25th connoisseur and the PG 25th short robusto. Both were released in different quantities at different times. And like I said, we'll go through that in a little bit. So there are 3 sizes in this line.

Pagoda:

But are are they, like do they sell everywhere or it's only coming out from 1 store or the No.

Gizmo:

So he has I believe he has 200 retailers worldwide. He is he does not sell direct. He only sells through, you know, authorized dealers.

Bam Bam:

So one box per week?

Pagoda:

One box per

Bam Bam:

week. Effectively. Amazing. Yeah.

Pagoda:

But this this is probably out of interest. Right? It seems like a

Bam Bam:

Not a good business model.

Rooster:

They do make other Vitollas. It's not just this.

Gizmo:

Yeah. They have a lot of cigars, and they're

Bam Bam:

Get it.

Gizmo:

And he's selling a lot of cigars.

Senator:

So what what is selling? Because clearly, it's not this if there's only 200 boxes of these.

Gizmo:

There's a bunch of other wines.

Rooster:

Make a gourmet series.

Gizmo:

Yeah. The gourmet series. Good.

Bam Bam:

It's for the chef.

Pagoda:

Oh, you go here. You go chef excited over there.

Senator:

This is the gourmet series.

Rooster:

Yeah. But this is the 25th anniversary, so they have regular gourmet series as well.

Gizmo:

They have they have 4 different kinds of gourmet series, the gourmet series, the original blend, gourmet series 2, gourmet series 3, 30th anniversary. They have a Reserva exclusive. They have a 25th anniversary that we have in our hand right now, 20th, 15th anniversary, Soiree, Maduro, artists and selection, artists and passion. And like I said, what I love about what they do here is you can go on their website right now and and purchase cigars that were rolled in 1996. Wow.

Gizmo:

Five packs, 10 packs.

Bam Bam:

And at an elevated price or standard standard?

Gizmo:

So a single a single, of the PG celebration roll of the 1996 is $33.90. It never sold. That's what the That's right.

Bam Bam:

But there's also the whole question in this industry about how do you validate that? How do you know that's true?

Gizmo:

Well, you have to trust where you're getting them from, and this guy is very well connected. And I'm sure. His cigars are rolled at, Yeah.

Bam Bam:

Yeah.

Gizmo:

Tabaclar Dominicanas. Apparently, this guy has a PhD. Yeah. Right? He's a doctor.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. But we question

Pagoda:

in what? Cigars. Oh, really?

Bam Bam:

Is that a thing? You know, we question Opus in their aging program. Are they really aging their material that we don't know? Right?

Rooster:

Yeah. There's lots of guys who aid cigars and Tupperware and then sell them in singles. Correct. You know, who knows?

Chef Ricky:

Many victims.

Rooster:

We'll talk about that a little bit too.

Bam Bam:

Many victims down that road.

Gizmo:

So, boys, what are you getting on the light of the p g 20 I'm

Rooster:

getting a lot of pepper right now.

Pagoda:

Yeah? I'm

Rooster:

getting some, yeah, getting some black pepper, white pepper. It's peppery. Spicy.

Senator:

I do get a little pepper.

Chef Ricky:

I got a little pepper, but I am getting some dried fruit here. I'm getting a little bit on the front followed by some pepper on the back of my on my palate.

Bam Bam:

The retrohale is a little fruity, but there's a good amount of cocoa for me. Mhmm. The aroma on the foot, that deep barnyard kinda went to, like, a savory thing for me. It's very smooth. It's it's pleasant.

Bam Bam:

The traditional draw I think you're right. Just a touch of white pepper maybe and dried apple. So you're more than a touch of apple there.

Senator:

It's more than a touch of pepper. Smell the burn line, and your nose, it's like you just smell the ton of black pepper.

Bam Bam:

I like that.

Senator:

You see what I'm saying?

Gizmo:

I did get me. Yeah.

Senator:

And it's really tough

Rooster:

for me.

Bam Bam:

Like the burn line, man.

Gizmo:

It does smell good. Yeah. Take it. It smells good, but then when you come in and take it

Senator:

in, you get a lot of pepper, like, in your nose.

Rooster:

I imagine that's gonna go away.

Chef Ricky:

I'm getting a a little, on the on the burn line, I'm getting a little black pepper and also a funk from, like, a brie, like, that ammonia funk you would get from a from a triple cream cheese or something or from a rind.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. Not

Senator:

a double cream from a triple cream.

Chef Ricky:

Triple cream, man. Horse.

Bam Bam:

Or a pair of horse foot. This is I'm I'm enjoying this. Yeah. I can't say there there's anything wrong with it right now.

Gizmo:

Yeah. It's it's it's different. I I I find it to be a little savory like you said. I'm getting a little bit salty. Yeah.

Gizmo:

I'm I'm tasting some pepper. I think it's black pepper I would say is closest to. On the retrohale, I'm getting a unique fruit. I don't know

Chef Ricky:

what it is. Yeah.

Bam Bam:

It's sweet.

Gizmo:

Did you say apple?

Bam Bam:

I got, like, a dry apple.

Chef Ricky:

I'm calling out dried apple. I thought it was really nice.

Bam Bam:

Accurate. If you have sometimes you have, like, dried apple, it there's a little funkiness to that because it's it's sliced longer. When they dry it, it kinda curls around.

Gizmo:

You mean mold? No.

Bam Bam:

But, when you have dried apple,

Chef Ricky:

it's That's that's just

Bam Bam:

There's this a little sweetness, and it's a little funky, almost like a like a cream that's about to go bad, which I happen to like in certain foods. You mean

Rooster:

like a dehydrated apple?

Bam Bam:

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That's what I'm getting here.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. I think on on longer drawers on longer draws on this cigar, you're more likely to get some more developed flavors. Got some cedar coming through now.

Rooster:

To me, this cigar kind of resembles, like, some of the Davidoff's that we have had in the past. Maybe the Nicaraguan or the Yamas maybe the Yamasa series.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. Not the Nicaraguan.

Rooster:

Yeah. Yamasa, I think, maybe

Gizmo:

is closer. Yeah.

Rooster:

It has that mushroomy note.

Chef Ricky:

What Yeah.

Bam Bam:

That's that funkiness that I'm trying to put my finger on.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. So funny you said I've lost all dried fruit, and I'm now in umami mushroom.

Bam Bam:

It's nice. Earth. It's a little different.

Gizmo:

Yeah. It's satisfying, though. It's, like, intriguing and satisfying.

Chef Ricky:

It's weird to be getting so much out of something that we've been smoking for such a short period.

Bam Bam:

When was the last time, Rooster, you've had this? You said you said you had this.

Rooster:

Oh, yeah. Years? 19 twenties, like you said.

Gizmo:

No. Probably around late 90 into it now. Correct that.

Rooster:

Late late nineties, I would say. 98, 99.

Bam Bam:

Okay. And how do you compare the 2?

Rooster:

This is totally different. This is a diff completely a different blend. They used to be very mild.

Bam Bam:

It's to

Rooster:

be mild to medium, more like a like a Davidoff Grand Cru or the, you know, those milder avo series, initial avos.

Bam Bam:

Would you guys say that this is firmly medium?

Gizmo:

I would say so right now.

Senator:

Yeah. They're medium.

Gizmo:

Yeah. That's fair. I I am I am so intrigued by this cigar right now. There's so much that we're talking about here that I I don't ever recall mentioning on the pod, mushroom Mhmm. Dried apple.

Gizmo:

Some of the notes here, I I just my brain is, like, totally tweaked by it. I think we

Rooster:

have gotten a mushroom note on another cigar.

Chef Ricky:

I I wanna say it was the the partagus 3. Maduro 3? The Maduro 3, I think, gave us some savory mushroom notes, probably. Might have been that one.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. It could have been.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. Going back to this cigar, though, it's it completely dried out on me, and it's giving me super like, not in a bad way. It's just I'm not getting any more dried fruit.

Gizmo:

Senator, what are you thinking? I'm confused

Senator:

by this cigar. I'm I'm not sure where I'm gonna fall. Like, I don't know.

Gizmo:

Ask a quick question? Sorry to interrupt. Do you think our palates have been ruined by that my father we did 2 weeks ago? They're still ruined. The Cigar of

Rooster:

the Year Forever. Forever.

Gizmo:

Do you think that, like, maybe we have to just quit? Like, is everything wrong now?

Bam Bam:

I need to talk. I think

Senator:

we need some Ayahuasca or something.

Gizmo:

I'm sorry, senator. I'm just

Bam Bam:

sitting in a dark room for a while. Exactly.

Chef Ricky:

Some CBT therapy.

Senator:

Yeah. But, no, I'm just very confused by this because I had expected that this would lean sweeter in flavor profile, and then the notes have been more earthy and savory, and so I've been surprised by that. The pepper also really threw me. I wasn't expecting that, at least based on the cold draw. So I just don't really yet know that I can say I understand what this is trying to be.

Senator:

And if this stays as dry and earthy as some of the notes I've gotten, I'm I'm this is probably not gonna be for me. If this gets back to some of the sweeter notes that I got a little bit of when we started smoking this, I'll be happier. So for me, the jury is

Bam Bam:

very much out. I doubt it's gonna get sweet again. Are you still getting pepper?

Senator:

It subsided, but the pepper was so strong. It's like it still lingers a little bit on my palate. Like, I really wish there was none of that pepper.

Bam Bam:

There's definitely a salt and pepper thing happening.

Rooster:

Absolutely. It's

Bam Bam:

kind of become that for me. And that savoriness, it's almost become like an onion type of background. I don't know. It's something in that family for me, which I actually don't mind from time to time. I rarely get that in a cigar, but it's happened.

Chef Ricky:

You you're a 100% right. Spring day, walking in your backyard, and you got wild onions popping up out of the grass. Right?

Bam Bam:

And

Chef Ricky:

you break and you pop those out. That's exactly what this is. Exactly what this is.

Gizmo:

Senator, I think we should leave them here. I'll leave the mic shut. I think they're gonna be in

Senator:

a good dark room.

Bam Bam:

I mean, I

Pagoda:

lost I just came out of a dark room, motherfucker. That's it. We got 2 farmers out here.

Gizmo:

Right? I don't know what the hell

Bam Bam:

is going on. Wait a minute.

Rooster:

Are you guys growing onions in your backyard? Yards?

Chef Ricky:

No. But there there's wild onions popping up all over your yards. They pop up as weeds.

Gizmo:

You'll see you'll

Rooster:

see them. Dandelions. I don't

Bam Bam:

No. No.

Gizmo:

Onions? That's a hell of a note there, Bam. I'm impressed again.

Pagoda:

But that's awesome.

Gizmo:

No. You're not. That's what I'm I'm I'm impressed. This is a really different cigar.

Chef Ricky:

I'm I'm curious to hear what Pagoda's getting because my theory is as we all especially because we all kind of cut this properly

Gizmo:

as as opposed to pagoda.

Bam Bam:

No. So, pagoda,

Pagoda:

it's not that bad.

Bam Bam:

That that

Pagoda:

It's on the curve.

Bam Bam:

You created the Lincoln Tunnel there. The curve.

Rooster:

What a what a nice way to say you overcut yourself.

Bam Bam:

What do you what do you what are you getting, dude?

Senator:

It's not the curve.

Chef Ricky:

So let me let me I

Gizmo:

feel like he's used that before.

Pagoda:

So so I I'll tell you. I'm gonna start, and you're all gonna be laughing again. But still, I think for me, when I started at the light, I got of just one strong whiff of, like, a dark chocolate, and it just went away.

Bam Bam:

It was sweet early on.

Pagoda:

It was a little banana ish. I don't know. Like, a little sweeter.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah.

Pagoda:

Went away. Then it became very earthy. For me, it's tobacco and earthy.

Bam Bam:

Okay.

Pagoda:

And on the on the side of my tongue, it's really, like, it's not a very pleasant, it's a, I think, short to medium finish, but drier and leaves a very tobacco like Yeah. Not a very pleasant you know how, like, some cigars, I love the pleasant feeling it leaves in the palate? This does not at all. So I'm still trying to

Bam Bam:

Are you

Pagoda:

understand what it is doing.

Bam Bam:

Are you not liking it at all?

Pagoda:

I'm not there yet. Not not like I would be

Bam Bam:

right now,

Pagoda:

I'm at a 5.

Bam Bam:

I mean, it's fair. Yeah.

Senator:

Yeah. I'm not loving it either. I'm kind of in the same campus, but go to

Bam Bam:

I'm kinda

Senator:

I kinda like it.

Bam Bam:

Weird way I like it. It's just it is definitely a different it is an outlier, this cigar.

Gizmo:

This is an outlier. It's different. I'm completely intrigued.

Bam Bam:

Me too.

Gizmo:

My palate is bouncing off the wall right now Yeah. With all these different notes and the different things we're tasting. One thing I think we can all agree on, it's not boring No. And it's not a simple flavored cigar. I think there's a lot of complexity in it whether or not it's for you.

Bam Bam:

Here's a question.

Gizmo:

We'll get there, but

Bam Bam:

as far as snacking, if you were snacking and having the cigar with the caviar and some chips, you're typical you would not have caviar with this thing?

Senator:

Absolutely not.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. That salty brininess with the caviar, I think

Senator:

they don't get a lot of brininess in this.

Bam Bam:

I get saltiness in this.

Gizmo:

I'm getting saltiness for sure.

Bam Bam:

There's no doubt. Yeah. Or anything like that salty.

Gizmo:

I'm also loving the combustion.

Chef Ricky:

I think cheese with this just to kinda carry on.

Bam Bam:

That's a good idea.

Chef Ricky:

You know, just extend some of the flavors. So the reason I asked what I asked about pagoda, I feel like the drier draws, the industry draws that we were taking were sweeter. And then as we continue withdrawing on our cigar, the, you know, the opening got a little bit more wet with our own saliva and whatnot, and it almost feels like the draw, the flavor is changing. So I was thinking if maybe pagoda's draw is just starting wide open, if he was still getting, you know, some dry fruit notes as opposed to these

Pagoda:

No. It became more earthier.

Chef Ricky:

Earthy cedar.

Pagoda:

Yeah. And tobacco earthy. Like, not a very you know, sometimes you get a pleasant earthiness as well. This is it's I'm not getting that at all for you.

Rooster:

I think that's the barnyard note. Maybe. I think.

Senator:

Yeah. Is this all Dominican tobacco?

Gizmo:

I believe it is, except for the filler we don't know. So the wrapper is Escoto Maduro. The binder is Dominican barrel aged, and there are 4 fillers in the cigar which are not detailed. Unusual. There there is a potential that there's something else in here that, you know, could be Nicaraguan, could be Honduran, could be Costa Rican.

Gizmo:

Who knows? But, those are not defined.

Bam Bam:

That's strange. The the

Pagoda:

the the the the reason they do, Dominican cigar with 4 different types of Dominicans in? I thought that smoked really well. I thought I I don't

Gizmo:

remember what that was. Was was that the Davidoff Maduro?

Pagoda:

No. I've it's totally like, I know that we had something with 4 or 5 different fillers in it. Yeah. Alright.

Gizmo:

Alright, boys. Let's go through the story of Paul Garmirion. He was born Bogos k Garmirion in Beirut, Lebanon, and he's much more than a cigar maker. He has been or is a professor, a real estate broker, an author, a doctor, and a cigar retailer. He was born, like I said, in Beirut, and his father was a construction executive building, government buildings and whatnot.

Gizmo:

When he was 11, his father could no longer go to work due to a work related injury and was not able to support his son's education. He promised his father or Paul's grandfather someday that he would build and donate a school for Armenian youth and name it after him, and the father was able to fulfill his promise with the completion of the Bogos k Garmirian School named in honor of his father in 1974 in Lebanon in a suburb suburb of Beirut, and his father lived the rest of his life as a philanthropist. Paul Garmirian, the guy who made this cigar, earned his PhD in international politics, senator, from the Catholic University of America in Washington DC in 1975, returned to Beirut thereafter to teach, and then quickly turned right back around to the US when the Lebanese civil war broke out, and he's been here ever since. He lectured on politics and international marketing and managed his real estate firm in McLean, Virginia until 1990 when he stepped away to move fully into the cigar industry. After 2 years of research and writing, Paul first released The Gourmet Guide to Cigars, which is a book that he released after 7 years of research and 2 years of writing.

Gizmo:

It's been reprinted 10 times since then in 2 different languages. The publication of his book resulted in the opportunity to work with Hendrik Kellner, president of Tabacos Dominicanos, and Elado Diaz, the chief blender in Santiago, Dominican Republic. What followed was an experimentation and hard work by an extremely skilled and talented Dominican artisans whose spirit and innovation fused the PG cigar into existence. The initial release of the PG line consisted of the traditional Cuban sizes introduced to Georgetown Tobacco in Washington DC in November of 1990. The initial seven sizes were the Churchill, the Bellicoso, which was the first time that shape appeared in the United States market at all, aside from when it was, you know, with Cuban cigars be before the embargo.

Gizmo:

The number 1, the number 2, the corona grande, the Lonsdale, and the corona. They all were officially released nationwide after that first release in late 1990 at a cigar dinner in Chicago on May 1, 1991. That was the PG Gourmet Series 1. The Gourmet Series 2, which potentially was what Rooster was talking about having in the late nineties, was launched in 1999 in 2 shapes, the torpedo and the Robusto. In late 2001, the Connoisseur and Belicossofinos were added.

Gizmo:

The Reserva Exclusiva, an exceptional cigar from 10 year old tobaccos, they say, also arrived in late 2001 in Corona Extra and Belicoso. Then they had a few other sizes that joined in early 2002. 2005, 15th anniversary of PG, they released a full bodied blend. It was a Belicoso Extra made in a 1,000 boxes of 15, quickly sold out. In 2006, the blend became a line of 9 size 9 sizes called 15th anniversary, which I guess is still available today.

Gizmo:

During the blending of the 15th anniversary, PG came across a full bodied blend, which after further bending blending was released in 2006 as the PG Soiree in 3 different sizes. He says that it's a perfect after dinner cigar. 2010 and 20th anniversary, they came up with the limited edition cigar in one size, which was a 52 by 6 Toro made available to the top 25 PG authorized dealers. In 2015, the cigar we're smoking right now, this blend marked the 25th anniversary, and 25,000 connoisseurs were made and packed in 1,250 boxes. Like I said, these these cigars, the entire 25th contains, Escoto Madoro wrapper, the 4 fillers, and the Dominican barrel aged binder.

Gizmo:

In 2016, they released a 150 boxes of short Robusto, and then this one that we have in our hand was released in September 2024 and was limited to 200 boxes of 20 cigars. In 2020, they celebrated their 30th anniversary with the gourmet series 3. Also, like I said, he's he was a he he owns a retail store, with his son Kevork in, McLean, Virginia. They purchased McLean Cigars, which was an existing retailer, then they made it a Paul Garmirian boutique. So if you like what he does, if you go to McLean, Virginia, you can visit them.

Gizmo:

He has made an SD DuPont lighter with Elaine at SD DuPont. He has ellie blue humidors for PG, ashtrays, tons of accessories, and in 2023, he released his second book, an autobiography and memoir titled The Road to Cigars. In it, he lays out the stories of his friendships with people like Edward Sahakian, who owns the Davidoff shop in London very famously, Supreme Court justice Antonin Scalia, Pierre Salinger, who was president Kennedy's press secretary, and many more. And allegedly, presidents Clinton and both presidents Bush as well as David Letterman love Paul Garmirian cigars. And that is the story on PG.

Gizmo:

Pretty wild.

Bam Bam:

Very impressive.

Gizmo:

Pretty cool story. That's why I, you know, normally, I would pair that down

Bam Bam:

That's incredible.

Gizmo:

For or when we're reading it here, but I didn't feel that any of that was, like, you know, could be cut. Like, I I think this story is fascinating.

Pagoda:

He's had a fulfilling life.

Bam Bam:

He has. Well, and he's still alive. Right?

Pagoda:

With cigars, of course. No. With cigars. Like Yeah.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. It seems like he's taken, like, he's taken a intellectual approach to crafting his career in the cigar business. Yeah. Very impressive.

Senator:

I just can't believe I've never come across this guy. He's a big DC guy. A huge DC guy. Got his PhD at American. He one of those cigars, you said he first released it at Georgetown Tobacco.

Senator:

That was my tobacconist when I lived in DC.

Gizmo:

He's best friends with that guy.

Senator:

That's amazing.

Gizmo:

Owner of, Georgetown Tobacco, I think, was the reason that Paul got into the cigar industry. He fell in love with, you know, cigars in DC Mhmm. At Georgetown Tobacco.

Senator:

And then the McLean part says where I know it's spelled McLean. Everybody calls McLean.

Gizmo:

I'm sorry.

Senator:

Yeah. And, McLean is a very, very nice suburb outside of DC. One, I never knew there's a tobacco shop there, so that's amazing he's got a shop. Yep. And then, 2, I think you mentioned he was a real estate broker.

Pagoda:

He must've been a lot of money.

Gizmo:

Oh, yeah.

Senator:

He must've done well. It's not cheap to live in McLean.

Rooster:

Don't have

Gizmo:

to stop and to stop working to make cigars.

Bam Bam:

A doctor.

Gizmo:

And he was well, he was a doctor of,

Bam Bam:

inter

Gizmo:

you know, international politics,

Senator:

I believe. Yeah.

Pagoda:

No. But really stayed did really well really well there.

Senator:

Alright. When we do a lizard trip to DC, we gotta look him up.

Gizmo:

I think we I think we need to I think we need to interview this guy because you you you think about all that he's done like Pagoda was saying, like, what a fulfilled life. Absolutely. I mean, coming from Beirut and and everything that he's done is pretty amazing.

Bam Bam:

How old is he now? Do you know?

Gizmo:

I would guess that if he graduated college with a doctorate in 75, so that would mean he probably got his bachelor's in 70? It's 102. So that would put him at Abuela's age.

Bam Bam:

No. Oh, wow. Slightly younger. 80. 80.

Bam Bam:

80. I don't know. I don't think so.

Gizmo:

You need a How how old are you when you get a doctorate in international politics?

Bam Bam:

2 is your bachelor's degree.

Senator:

From when we think graduated college. You're you're roughly 21, 22 when you graduate college.

Gizmo:

So that was in let's say let's say in

Senator:

1970. 70.

Bam Bam:

So probably about 28 to 30 years old with a PhD, maybe?

Pagoda:

Around eighties.

Bam Bam:

For the 6 years?

Gizmo:

He's gotta be close to 80.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. Wow. Okay. It like senator said, I think it'd be great to sit down with him and just pick his brain and have a cigar in the same room with him. That'd be great.

Senator:

I just can't believe I've never encountered this guy. Like, the DC cigar community is not that extensive. I'm really surprised

Chef Ricky:

by this.

Rooster:

I think the cigar itself is not really sought after. It's not well known.

Gizmo:

No.

Rooster:

It's a very boutique brand, and very few stores actually carry this.

Bam Bam:

Let me ask the have you ever heard of

Senator:

this cigar, senator? Never.

Bam Bam:

Neither have I. Never.

Gizmo:

And by the way, the only the only reason that we're doing this cigar is because we have gotten, I would say, in the lifetime of this podcast, probably somewhere between 1525. I don't know the exact number of people saying

Bam Bam:

way.

Gizmo:

Please smoke Paul Garmirian cigars. I swear to god.

Bam Bam:

That's crazy.

Gizmo:

It's a boutique brand that people love. It's definitely very boutique, and I I think he is intentional with that. You know? I think he wants to put out a very specific type of product at a very specific type of quality, and, I mean I think he's a a quality over over dollars kinda guy.

Senator:

I believe that, but he's gotta do better with his marketing. I mean, I'm just saying that, like, I live in DC for a while. I I used to go to Georgetown Tobacco all the time. No one and this was earlier in my journey. So, like, I was looking for recommendations from a tobacconist.

Senator:

Never once did anyone at Georgetown Tobacco recommend I pick up a PG Cigar.

Pagoda:

I thought you were talking about blending. I said, oh my lord. He's gonna do he's gonna do it.

Rooster:

Also worth noting is the the connection with the with the Davidoff, you know, with the Henrik Kellner and, Diaz, you know, as a blender.

Gizmo:

Lot of ideas. Yeah. And then, you know, these cigars are sold in Davidoff of London. Yeah. To Sahakian's.

Gizmo:

He's friends with, Edward Sahakian.

Rooster:

That's where you that's where I have usually seen these cigars is at a Davidoff store.

Chef Ricky:

I gotta say, if I cover the band here and I just look at my burn line and my ash, I feel like I'm smoking a Davidoff. Like, this is a beautiful burn line.

Pagoda:

It's performing well. It's performing well.

Chef Ricky:

The construction is great.

Bam Bam:

Smoke up. It's great.

Rooster:

Yep. So It's also worth, reading that book.

Gizmo:

Yeah. I I actually picked up I actually for for to kinda color some of the information I was finding, there was an ebook of that most recent one he just put out. I got it for $10 today. And, so I I was paging through that. I mean, his story, his life story is pretty incredible.

Gizmo:

So what are you guys thinking about the cigar right now as I was running through all that history for Yeah.

Rooster:

All the spice is gone.

Chef Ricky:

Right right now, it's volleying back and forth for me between, like, pine nuts and or sunflower seeds.

Bam Bam:

Oh, that's very accurate,

Chef Ricky:

dude. Pepper.

Bam Bam:

Are you getting any I'm getting just a hint of sweetness coming back to me.

Gizmo:

I am. I am too, and I'm getting a little bit of citrus right now.

Pagoda:

A bit of a sweetness. I'm seeking that out. You know?

Chef Ricky:

It's it's no longer sweetness like dried fruit, but it's in a hint of sweetness like you would find in a creamy nut.

Bam Bam:

If it's citrus, it's lemon. It's nothing else but lemon for me.

Rooster:

It's creamy. I must say it's you know, that that note is there.

Bam Bam:

This is a very dodgy cigar. It's all over the place. It's hard to put your thumb on what this is for you. Right?

Chef Ricky:

I mean, again, I'm not even at the halfway point, and the flavors, the the various flavors that we've gotten here, it's it's really interesting.

Pagoda:

I wish it had a bit of Nicaraguan wrapper or something. I don't know. You know? It's something to really Let me ask

Bam Bam:

you a question. Hasn't it captured your attention at least because it's interesting?

Pagoda:

I didn't know. I it's I've just been seeking something more. I like, I've not been enjoying, the flavor profile at all.

Bam Bam:

Wow. Not at all.

Pagoda:

No. It's

Gizmo:

I selected it. I'm very intrigued.

Bam Bam:

Oh, me too.

Senator:

I do think this is for a a very, like, specific palate. Like, this is very dry. It's dry. You've gotta enjoy, like, a drier smoke for this to be something that you'd pick up regularly. I mean, there's nothing that's, like, you know, sweet or juicy or or just, like, something that really I just get like, tantalizes your palate.

Senator:

Like, this is not a mouthwatering type of, like, cigar.

Gizmo:

But I'm definitely not. I feel like I'm getting that kind of umami hit where it it's like there it's something is satisfying my brain. I don't know if it's because it's so intriguing or different. To. But I'm I'm very entertained by this cigar.

Bam Bam:

I

Senator:

don't mean the brain. I mean, literally, your palate. Like, there are certain cigars when, like, that smoke hits your palate, it's like your mouth is watering. There's, like, something about that profile. This is very dry.

Gizmo:

But it

Senator:

It's the opposite of that. Not wrong.

Pagoda:

When I've been drinking water finish.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. Super short finish.

Bam Bam:

So I'm curious in about another half inch of your cigar if you start touching any type of a sweet note. You too, chef.

Chef Ricky:

I I did get back to sweet.

Bam Bam:

Just a little bit.

Chef Ricky:

I think, yeah, it started getting a little bit like a

Bam Bam:

Can I tell you what that is? No. Yeah.

Chef Ricky:

Go for it. Let me see.

Bam Bam:

I can't tell you what it is because Oh. Oh, I

Gizmo:

thought you were asking permission.

Bam Bam:

I have no fucking idea what it is. But it's there.

Pagoda:

Jeff, there's a little bit of gotta tell

Bam Bam:

you what it is. And I said, can I tell you? No.

Gizmo:

Alright, boys. Let's move into a pairing. And before we do this, we have a birthday in the room tonight. Excuse me? Our friend Rooster.

Bam Bam:

Oh,

Gizmo:

Do you wanna guess how old he is, Bam, while I get the gift?

Bam Bam:

Well, he is, I think, officially a vampire. Jesus. No one knows how old he is. He stays the same. I've known you longer than anyone in this room, and you have not changed.

Rooster:

I can say the same for you.

Bam Bam:

That's a merit, by the way.

Rooster:

Thank you.

Senator:

Happy birthday. Hope Bam has changed. That's not don't say that back. In all those hours, we hoped in

Bam Bam:

some ways he is.

Gizmo:

So, you know, we normally would, have champagne and savor it, and that's obviously inappropriate for a guy who doesn't choose to partake Correct. In our pairings, every episode and rating those. So we decided to bring him a nonalcoholic beer.

Bam Bam:

Oh, Guinness.

Gizmo:

And I brought him a Guinness 0 Beautiful. Which we rated

Bam Bam:

very highly. Awesome.

Gizmo:

And I also do have a gift for you that's not as impressive Guinness. As this, something I know that you've wanted. Oh. I brought you a 2014 Comro? LUB 14 Cojibo Robusto.

Gizmo:

Oh my god.

Rooster:

Didn't you give me one of those in Cuba last year, same time?

Senator:

I think he did. I'll take it.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. Right. You don't want it? Of course.

Rooster:

Yeah. Didn't you give me one of these at Tropicana?

Bam Bam:

I

Gizmo:

don't think it was the LUB 14.

Bam Bam:

Can you show

Gizmo:

those, t t t

Bam Bam:

t t. More gracious in accepting that incredible cigar? Yes. I'm very disappointed.

Rooster:

Is it your birthday? No. Until your birthday.

Pagoda:

But I'm looking at you. You're not

Senator:

very gracious.

Bam Bam:

Let's just show some gratitude.

Rooster:

I am I'm very grateful for this.

Bam Bam:

Thank you.

Chef Ricky:

At Rooster's age, you've seen it all.

Bam Bam:

Oh, you know what? That's true.

Gizmo:

Well, happy birthday, Rooster.

Bam Bam:

Thank you.

Rooster:

Happy birthday. 2014, anything out of 2014.

Gizmo:

And it's a love 14. It's a love 14.

Bam Bam:

Special. That would that's good.

Senator:

Wait till you get pagoda's gift. He's got a great Xeno 2014 for you.

Rooster:

You know, he knows better now.

Bam Bam:

I do know better.

Pagoda:

Because there's

Rooster:

something in this bag for him that I'll take right back.

Bam Bam:

Oh. Oh.

Gizmo:

Oh. Alright, boys. Now let's move into our pairing tonight. We have a very, very kind listener gift from a friend of ours, lizard shaky, who sent us this very, very exclusive high priced rum. This is the I'm gonna try to pronounce this.

Gizmo:

Wait till I go through the history on this, all this French. I'm screwed. It's trois riberas? Rivieraas? How do you how do you how would you pronounce that in French, you think?

Bam Bam:

I can't read it from here.

Gizmo:

Or is

Bam Bam:

that an r?

Gizmo:

It is a French plantation rum. It's an Agricole extra old. It was distilled in 2,006. It's 13 years old rum and this specific bottle that we have was selected by and bottled exclusively for K&L Wine Merchant, which I guess is a wine merchant

Senator:

They're big.

Gizmo:

In, in California. They're big. And this is a single cask at 51.3 percent alcohol tonight on the pod. So this bottle, I think, was Say the percent again? 51.3.

Senator:

I thought you said 61. I was like, jeez. I'm gonna slip sit this a lot slower.

Gizmo:

Oh, yeah. So let's try this boys. Cheers.

Bam Bam:

Happy birthday, Rooster. Happy birthday, brother.

Rooster:

Thank you.

Gizmo:

Happy birthday to you, and thanks to lizard shaky out there for sending this. We're drinking this neat for all the purest out there.

Senator:

Trois Rivier. Trois Rivier. Or Riviera. Trois Riviera.

Gizmo:

There you go.

Bam Bam:

Thank you, Siri.

Gizmo:

This is very interesting. Wow. I like it. I like it a lot.

Senator:

I mean, I'll just say as a pairing, this was desperately needed with this cigar because this has, like,

Bam Bam:

a lot

Senator:

of that, like, sweet, like, sugarcane notes that just really helps balance the cigar better.

Bam Bam:

Oh, yeah. But, Gorda, what are you thinking about this spirit?

Pagoda:

Yeah. So so initially, when I

Bam Bam:

maybe you wanna get out of bed.

Pagoda:

I'm so comfortable here. Yeah. No. Initially, when, you know, I put my nose, to the drink, it was it was pretty rough. I thought it was slightly unbearable, but now that it's

Gizmo:

couldn't disagree more.

Pagoda:

And now that it's spent, you know, some time airing out, it's, a lot more fruitier, I think. And, you know, a little bit of the sugarcane, but more fruity, I'm getting. So I I don't know. Let let's let's have the first step.

Senator:

I'm with pagoda on the nose. The nose was like gasoline when I first spoke.

Bam Bam:

I agree.

Senator:

But it has definitely decanted a bit. Yeah. And now you're actually able to discern, like, some pleasant notes.

Gizmo:

Chef, what what was your verdict on the nose? I'm curious.

Chef Ricky:

The nose I I enjoy and I know I remember listening to the clarin episode, the raw medical coal from Haiti.

Gizmo:

Oh, that didn't go well.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. That didn't go well. And I I remember being excited for that because I I'm actually a fan of of, Haitian clarin. It reminds me a lot of mezcal and its artisanal quality and

Senator:

Rooster's feeling vindicated after bringing us that awful bottle. Oh.

Bam Bam:

I guess chef I

Rooster:

guess chef was the bomb,

Senator:

but No.

Chef Ricky:

I wasn't.

Senator:

No. I wish you coulda drank it for me.

Gizmo:

That was the one. We opened the bottle, and it smelled like milk had gone bad.

Pagoda:

Yeah. Yeah.

Rooster:

But did you guys Nobody tasted it.

Senator:

No. Nobody said we opened it and closed it. Gagged just from the smell. We couldn't

Bam Bam:

even taste it.

Rooster:

I guess it was the fermented sugarcane. Right? That's what was giving it the It's

Chef Ricky:

because of how rum Agricole is made. Right? So a lot all the rum that we do drink on the pod, it's rum, not rum Agricole. Rum is distilled from molasses. This is rum Agricole is distilled from sugarcane.

Chef Ricky:

But first, the sugarcane is brought down to about a 5 per it's fermented to a 5% ABV. At that point, it's then distilled to create the Agricole. And Agricole is French for agriculture, so it's pulling or calling to the terroir from which the sugarcane comes from. So, you know, obviously, cooking, food from different cultures. And before I've sort of become invested in the the Mexican, flavor profile, I was very big into Asian food, and, you know, working with sugarcane often.

Chef Ricky:

And sometimes in those cultures, you're especially here in the States, you're working with sugarcane from a can. So that that nose of rum Agricole reminds me of opening a can of sugarcane

Gizmo:

Wow.

Chef Ricky:

Of cooked sugarcane. That's what that is. And there's also a very popular I wouldn't say very popular, but a rum that I love coming out of Oaxaca, Mexico, called Paranubas, and it's made by David Sorrell. And it has a very similar aroma to these Agricole's and that it smells like cooked sugarcane.

Senator:

Was this from that brand that I tried?

Gizmo:

Remember I went

Chef Ricky:

to Yes. Yes.

Senator:

It was actually good.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. The rum.

Senator:

Yep. Yeah. I've had what he's talking about. It's shockingly good.

Chef Ricky:

If you smell the nose on there and that rum is not is non aged. Now they have an aged variant. But if you smell the nose on that, that, this, the rum, maybe with whatever sour notes aside, they all have a similar nose, and that that nose is of cooked sugarcane.

Senator:

So the context there, this was bizarre. When I was at a PCA event at the in Chicago, they had a tequila tasting. They had a bunch of different I mean, there was a a whiskey tasting tequila, but I was with this guy, and the guy really blew my mind. He was awesome. I have his card.

Senator:

We'll hopefully have him on the at some point. And I was mentioning this, and chef Ricky knew exactly who I was talking about. And in the course of this tequila tasting, this guy goes, have you have you ever tried the rum we make? And I'm like, rum. How could this possibly be anything worth drinking?

Senator:

And it was shockingly

Chef Ricky:

good.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. Yep. How are you feeling about this?

Senator:

I, you know, I mean, this is way better than that clarinet. That's for sure. Mhmm. It it's really growing on me.

Bam Bam:

It does take your palate adjust to to adjust to really start to enjoy this thing.

Gizmo:

I'm I'll be honest. I'm really surprised, guys, that that you're taking time to enjoy the spirit from the from the nose, from the first sip. I really love this rum. It's because they're

Senator:

I'll say this. Because it's

Bam Bam:

gulping it. That's why. Why.

Senator:

I'm not gulping. Well, I don't know about that, but

Gizmo:

I on your list.

Bam Bam:

I would gulp. It is.

Senator:

I I do think well, what's on his list, you did pull out a ziplock bag to give rooster his cigars. So God.

Gizmo:

I always bring a Ziploc bag to the pot.

Bam Bam:

I always

Rooster:

I'm okay with that, Giz. Anytime you wanna give me a love pour out of a Ziploc bag,

Gizmo:

I'm good. Happy birthday, bro.

Bam Bam:

Thank you. Oh my lord.

Rooster:

These fuckers? No.

Gizmo:

That's right. Yeah. That's right. Yes. You guys are out.

Bam Bam:

Alright.

Senator:

But on the the spirit, I I do think when you poured yours, I don't think that you immediately smelled the nose or tried it. I always try it a

Bam Bam:

little early. Me too.

Senator:

And initially, without it having time to decant, it was a lot more aggressive a spirit than it is now. So I just think, like, this is something that just needs to decant just a little bit. I think the time definitely helps. And I think the more you you drink it and the more it's decanting, like, the the flavors become more pronounced and it smooths out. So, like, I'm enjoying what I'm getting now.

Rooster:

Yeah. So maybe we should have done this with the clarin, chef. Yeah. What do you think?

Pagoda:

No. No. It I I think it laid out for, like, a week. Let me Right in

Bam Bam:

the lounge. That does not No.

Rooster:

I mean Leave

Bam Bam:

it open for a week.

Gizmo:

Pour it in a Home Depot bucket. Have you had

Rooster:

have you had the Clarin?

Chef Ricky:

I've had Clarin before. Yes.

Bam Bam:

Must we talk about the Clarin?

Rooster:

The exact one, the initial aroma?

Chef Ricky:

I don't think the exact one, but I've had that brand. It Clarins a lot like Moscow and that's

Bam Bam:

for rotten milk? Yeah. Yeah.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. No. And and let me

Rooster:

Amishore palates.

Bam Bam:

If if Oh my god.

Chef Ricky:

If we ever get to the point where we do what I see on this part, which is an agave distillate, that shit's gonna blow your mind because some of the the nose on that, you can get putrid putrid fruit or rotten milk or, like, superlactic, notes, but then you taste it, and it is the most sweet, delicious. It it's, you you know and and there's, you know, durian fruits like that. Right?

Bam Bam:

Like Oh, yeah.

Chef Ricky:

You break open that fruit, it smells like shit, and then you taste it, and it's some of the sweetest, most delicious flesh.

Rooster:

I think these guys were very turned off just with the initial aroma. Just It turned my stomach.

Bam Bam:

Me too.

Rooster:

I don't think we even poured

Gizmo:

a glass.

Rooster:

It was just out

Chef Ricky:

of the glass. I remember being very tried too mad. Yeah.

Bam Bam:

I I did try it. I did pour, but I couldn't drink it. I remember you

Gizmo:

being very

Senator:

poured it for someone at the lounge one night. You almost killed a guy.

Pagoda:

Yeah. No. No. Somebody did something great.

Senator:

Your friend, he poured it for your friend. Rooster has killed him.

Bam Bam:

Rooster's desperate need to have someone drink.

Pagoda:

I'm happy with the doigan. I think he put us the drink, didn't he?

Senator:

Not willingly. He the look on his face, and then Rooster was like, come on.

Gizmo:

You're not gonna fix this. I remember that. Alright. Oh, wow.

Bam Bam:

Way too polite.

Rooster:

He he he was at a point, anything you pour for him, he would have had it. Yeah. He would have had it.

Senator:

Was like, I've got a great bottle for you. This guy takes a sip and looks at him like, what the hell is this? Because the

Rooster:

initial initial smell is like that, but I guess it tasted okay. Yeah.

Bam Bam:

So I

Rooster:

don't know. Maybe we should do it again on the

Pagoda:

He had at least 10, like, Manhattan's and Old Fashioned that night before.

Chef Ricky:

So what's funny on this, on the palate, I'm drinking it, and I'm like, wow. This is kinda tasting cognac ish or and I look, and it's Asian French limousine barrels. So it's cognac cask. And

Bam Bam:

I will say I am getting just a slight hint of caramel way at the tail end of this thing. Just a touch.

Chef Ricky:

It's a very complex drink.

Gizmo:

I'm loving

Chef Ricky:

very complex.

Bam Bam:

It's a grown man's drink right there.

Chef Ricky:

Especially for rum. It's not one dimensional and anyway.

Bam Bam:

Small sips. You gotta take your time.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. So I wanna go

Gizmo:

through the history in a second here, boys, but we're coming to the end of the first third here on the Paul Garmirian 25th anniversary in Bellicosa. What's everybody thinking right now? Pairing with the rum, the cigar itself, what are your thoughts?

Bam Bam:

It's a very savory experience.

Gizmo:

I'm really enjoying the cigar

Bam Bam:

as well. Can't say that I don't like it.

Rooster:

It's very different. That barnyard note is there in the background. That continues to come through.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. I I'd say for me, the retrohills gotten a little bit aggressive, and I think that's because of the proof of the rum being that the rum is on the hotter side. It's kind of opened up my nasal passages a little bit. So whenever I retrohale it, it is a a bit spicy. I'm I'm really enjoying it, but there's there is a little bit of hesitance for me here.

Chef Ricky:

And I I watch because I can't pinpoint everything. I I don't understand it.

Gizmo:

I feel the same about the cigar.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. But it's not, you know, it's not making me dislike it. It's it's it's making it interesting, but it's something that demands time and your attention. You can't smoke this for the sake of just smoking kind of empty you know, with an empty mind. You need to, like, pay attention.

Gizmo:

Yeah. Oh,

Pagoda:

there. I lost it all because

Bam Bam:

has it grown?

Pagoda:

I haven't an empty mind. So No. I really do.

Bam Bam:

Has this cigar grown on you at all?

Chef Ricky:

No. Nothing. Just coughed it up.

Bam Bam:

K.

Senator:

I will say for for me, it's gotten better. Again, I I still think this is for a particular palate, but what I'm just thrilled with is I I do think any sweeter spirit pairs really well with this. And I do like with that how I'm getting sweet and savory through the pairing.

Bam Bam:

That's a good point.

Senator:

I do just wish that the cigar could do that on its own, but the pairing is at least solving it for me.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. A sweet any sweet spirit would be a great compliment to

Gizmo:

that to this. So I I don't wanna talk about ratings, but based on that comment, I do have a question for you. Do you think that given your appreciation of the rum paired with the cigar, do you think that that is higher than what you'll probably rate either of them at this point? Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, the sum enhance the flavor.

Gizmo:

Like, the overall flavor of the pairing, which we don't rate. Oh, yeah. I the cigar. We rate the rum. The overall pairing of both right now, you're saying

Senator:

The sum is greater than the parts. Yes.

Bam Bam:

That

Senator:

that's that's what I'm saying, and I think you're you're calling out.

Gizmo:

Exactly what I'm getting to.

Senator:

You know, for me, the rum on its own is is very sweet. Like, I like a more balanced rum. The cigar is very dry on its own. I like a more balanced cigar. So, like, together, they dance very nicely.

Senator:

But on their own, is my rating gonna be as high as if I could only always have these 2 paired, it will be a bit lower for sure.

Rooster:

Can you guys at all attest to aged tobacco in this cigar? Do you get any

Gizmo:

It doesn't taste young to me. I I I'm not gonna lie to you.

Rooster:

Young, but, I mean, they're talking about a lot of age on these tobaccos. Right?

Gizmo:

I would think this tobacco probably has 5 to 6 years on it. But that's a lot of the cigars that we get from Dominican and and Nicaragua have that kind of age age range on it. So Yeah.

Senator:

I think it's a good question Rooster asked because if you gave this to me blind and didn't tell me any age statement whatsoever and I had to guess, I would think there's 1 to 3 years I would never think this is a 5 or 6 year age cigar. To me, the tobacco isn't as refined as, like, some other new world cigars we've had. They're in, like, that 5 even 4, 5, 6 year range. I would not suspect on my, blind that that's the case.

Gizmo:

Do you think that it's that feeling, is it the presence of the barnyard? Is it the absence of the sweetness? Is it that you're not feeling it's well rounded?

Senator:

I think it's the pepper. The pepper. For me, that's like the driving force. Like, I can't remember ever having, like, seriously aged tobacco that, like, is at all as peppery as this cigar started.

Bam Bam:

Are you still getting that now?

Senator:

No. No. It's definitely dissipated, but it was present for a while. Mhmm. And I can't think of a single new world cigar I've ever had with age that was at any point as peppery as this was.

Senator:

I I feel like that's something that gets dialed back

Bam Bam:

With every cigar. Age. So Well, I think with every cigar. Yeah.

Senator:

That that would have thrown me off.

Rooster:

You know, it's like lately, I keep comparing every single cigar I smoked to an Exclusivo.

Senator:

You don't say.

Gizmo:

It only took them 3 years.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. Well, actually it took 43 years. Exactly.

Rooster:

And it's odd. It's like, you know what? That cigar is so satisfying. And so you wish you get some of those flavors out of this cigar. You know?

Rooster:

Some of that sweetness or that cocoa or chocolate would come through on this, and it would be

Pagoda:

a whole lot. Cigar. Yeah. No.

Bam Bam:

That's Yeah.

Rooster:

I For half the price.

Bam Bam:

Yeah.

Chef Ricky:

I'm just curious about the age because the the burn line for me, I still get some ammonia there. Like, it still reminds me of, like, a moldy cheese, you know, like, the rind of a moldy cheese.

Gizmo:

I'm not getting ammonia.

Rooster:

I'm not getting any ammonia.

Gizmo:

Sam, but I'm I'm not really getting it.

Chef Ricky:

Ricky. Just I'm definitely getting it.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. No ammonia on the foot for me.

Gizmo:

I'm getting a little pepper, but not ammonia.

Bam Bam:

Definitely, like, a very light pepper Yeah. If anything.

Gizmo:

And it's it's not flaring my nostril like it was the first time senator told me to

Senator:

Yeah.

Gizmo:

To smell the burn line like that. Like, it's it's actually pretty pleasant.

Chef Ricky:

No. I'm I'm not getting those same pleasant notes that I get from some other cigars like an Escoceva or a Great Cuban where you're getting bacon spice or more or or notes that just lean naturally sweeter, you know, whether it be cocoa or or bread notes or whatnot. I'm not getting any of that here. So but I

Senator:

mean, Giz, I'm curious. If this were blind, you would ever guess this is 5 or 6 years of age?

Gizmo:

I'm not saying that. Yeah. Definitely. I I I'm not what I'm saying is I'm I'm not tasting youth. I'm not saying that this has age of you know, significant age that we've tasted in in other tobaccos.

Gizmo:

You know, specifically Dominican tobaccos, like some of the best, you know, that that Davidoff Maduro. You know, there is a little pepper there, but it is such a, you know, complex, complete flavor profile. There's the sweetness. That that delivers a real, you know, fulfilling experience.

Bam Bam:

Well rounded experience. Yeah. But that's

Rooster:

a little different than that. You get pepper, but you also get a lot of cocoa and Exactly. That that balances it. That's that's where you get the sweetness from. Correct.

Chef Ricky:

That's still not as satisfying as a Muscovy. I mean, I had my first one last week, and I really enjoyed it. But

Bam Bam:

Muscovy was Davydos Enduro?

Gizmo:

Yeah. Okay.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. Yeah. This is in its lane right now, and it's It's

Gizmo:

I'm in I'm I remain intrigued.

Senator:

Yeah.

Rooster:

But I'm

Bam Bam:

I've never ever had a cigar like this before.

Gizmo:

Me neither. It's it's uniquely this is like one of 1. You know what I mean?

Bam Bam:

But it's definitely for someone out there that loves this.

Gizmo:

Oh, I can understand somebody loving this. Sure.

Rooster:

Loving this profile. I just wish it wasn't a $25 cigar. I think the price point is a bit high for what it's delivered.

Bam Bam:

Oh, no doubt about that. Right.

Gizmo:

I agree. Alright, boys. Let's go back to the rum for a minute. I have some history on Tra Riviera. It's a renowned rum distillery located in Martinique, a French overseas territory in the Caribbean.

Gizmo:

The distillery is celebrated for producing rum Agricole, as we talked about, a style of rum made directly from freshly pressed sugarcane juice rather than molasses. This method imparts unique vegetal and grassy characteristics to the rum that we've been pointing out, setting it apart from traditional molasses based rums. It was founded in the late 17th century by Nicolas Fouquet who was the superintendent of finances to King Louis the 14th. The distillery's name, Trau Riviera, is 3 rivers referring to its location at the meeting point of 3 rivers in Martinique, Oman I can't pronounce this Bois Dindy and Saint Pierre. It was originally established as a sugar plantation and then transitioned to, rum production with time.

Gizmo:

This distillery holds the AOC designation, which stands for Appalachian de origin control, which is a certification granted to agricultural products that meet strict production standards. This ensures authenticity, adherence, adherence to traditional methods. The distillery grows its own sugarcane, including specific varieties suited to Martinique's volcanic soil and tropical climate. The juice is fermented and distilled using traditional column stills producing a lighter, more aromatic spirit. The rums are aged in a combination of French and American oak barrels.

Gizmo:

And sometimes, as Ricky pointed out, this one, was aged in ex cognac, barrels from Limousine in France. And the barrels, of course, adding complexity and depth to the final product. The rums are known for their fresh grassy and floral notes often complemented by tropical fruit, spice, and woody undertone. They produce both unaged white rum and aged gold VSOP, XO, and vintage. I guess this is technically an XO product.

Gizmo:

As well as limited edition single cask releases, which this is. They have a couple signature rums, the Blanc, which is classic unaged Agricole rum with a very fresh grassy profile, the Cuvee delle Ocean, made from sugarcane grown on seaside plots, has a briny mineral character. They have a triple molesome, which is a blend of select vintages showcasing complex layered flavors. And finally, they have single year expressions like this one is aged to highlight the specific characteristics of the harvest year. The distillery emphasizes sustainable farming practices and environmentally friendly friendly production methods ensuring minimal impact on Martinique's ecosystem.

Gizmo:

What's cool too, visitors to Martinique can tour the distillery to learn about its history, production methods, and rum making traditions. The stunning views of sugarcane fields and the Caribbean Sea add to the experience. This distillery is a cornerstone of Martinique's rum heritage, producing these Agricole rums for over 400 years. Wow. Pretty cool.

Gizmo:

How much is that bottle? $150.

Bam Bam:

Alrighty then.

Gizmo:

So thank you, lizard shaky, for sending that to us. Very, very kind of

Bam Bam:

him Very generous.

Gizmo:

To, to share this

Bam Bam:

room with us tonight. $150. I will say, you know, it doesn't take much to satisfy you, and this dram that I have will last quite a while. Yeah. There's a slight heat, but I happen to like that.

Bam Bam:

It's very pleasant. And the finish is really nice and sweet if you keep it in your mouth a bit longer.

Rooster:

The color is so deep in It's a beautiful color. Beautiful.

Gizmo:

Yeah. The dark amber.

Chef Ricky:

13 years. Yeah.

Gizmo:

What do you guys think with the age being in the barrel 13 years?

Chef Ricky:

It looks like a cognac.

Bam Bam:

It does.

Chef Ricky:

It looked the color is very reminiscent of 1738.

Gizmo:

I'm surprised at the at the viscosity not being I'm surprised it's not a little more viscous than it is. Yeah. It it's a little thinner than I would have expected with that age on it.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. But

Bam Bam:

with the the alcohol content, you kind of it's kind of welcome, and it's easier to drink because of the lower viscosity, I think.

Chef Ricky:

I also think because it's distilled from sugar cane sugarcane and not molasses, it's gonna be a little bit less viscous. So but I think it's really complex. A lot like the cigar, it it deserves some attention when drinking it, and that's why it forces you to kinda drink it slow. It it's definitely a complex drink. It does lean sweet, but there's a lot here where you're drinking rum, but it feels like you're drinking cognac.

Bam Bam:

And Oh, yeah.

Chef Ricky:

There's even some some scotch undertones there towards the finish. So it's it's interesting. It's very interesting.

Bam Bam:

What do you think of the price?

Chef Ricky:

Look. It's a 13 year old rum, limited production. It's not mass produced, so I'd you know, it's it is what it is.

Bam Bam:

With everything you said, it sounds fair Yeah. For what it is, I guess.

Gizmo:

Yeah.

Senator:

I I think it's high, but I I do agree. Cheap. Yeah. I do agree with Ricky's point. It's it's a complex rum, and it definitely commands your attention.

Chef Ricky:

Mhmm.

Senator:

I just wish the price point were

Rooster:

I mean, the price is approaching Santiago. Right?

Senator:

Yeah. That's Oh, Santiago 20. Santiago 20.

Rooster:

I mean, that thing probably blows this away.

Bam Bam:

That's like nectar.

Pagoda:

Have you had such expensive rums?

Senator:

No. Santiago 20. That's like a $160 bottle.

Bam Bam:

Had that.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. That's

Pagoda:

the only one that I thought.

Gizmo:

The more one of the more expensive Cuban rums we've actually done on the pod that we love.

Bam Bam:

Probably the the

Pagoda:

That's the only one. Right? I think Well, there's a lot of rums

Bam Bam:

that we like.

Rooster:

Well, there's a few in the 70, $80

Pagoda:

70.80. Do. Like, too.

Rooster:

Emenite and few other ones. Different mark maker. Yeah. Yeah.

Chef Ricky:

I'm just curious. When you guys did the Barbancourt, did you, you remember what year or how many years was it the It's it

Senator:

was like the entry level stuff. True. Okay. Because it's hard to like, that's really all they have readily available here. It was not great.

Senator:

It was really harsh. Real like, I I would not dare call it a sipping rum,

Pagoda:

what we had.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. I'd I've had the 3 star, which I enjoyed. I think that's 14 years.

Bam Bam:

Oh, I'm still still cleaning the carburetor with that shit, man.

Senator:

I'm missing that little, like, screw top bottle.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. Yeah. Very appropriate. Decreasing engines. Jesus.

Gizmo:

So I do know this this was a very limited release that lizard shaky sent us. I think it was limited to, like, 250 or 500 bottles worldwide.

Rooster:

Yeah. It's it's fretting for the cigar. It is?

Gizmo:

Yeah. That's why I paired it with this because I was reading the story of the PG Cigars. Thought it was interesting. You know, I wanted to bring something that was a little sweeter in because I didn't know what the flavor profile profile would be. So I'm glad it's working out.

Chef Ricky:

Great call because this cigar isn't sweet at all. So it's, it helps round it out.

Bam Bam:

So, senator, how are you I started to really enjoy this cigar at that point where you are now. How are you feeling about it? I started to get back a little bit of sweetness there. Just a touch.

Senator:

Yeah. There is a touch.

Bam Bam:

Just a touch.

Senator:

There's a touch. It it's I like the second half of this cigar Mhmm. Definitely more than I did the first half. And it's because, you know, what we're saying, it's more balanced to me in the second half. I think the first half leans way too dry and way too earthy, but I think the second half is achieving some more balance.

Bam Bam:

There's almost like a grainy cereal thing I'm getting with this right now, which I really like.

Chef Ricky:

It's still dry, but in it's drying the way a walnut is dry. The way a walnut has those drying qualities on the

Bam Bam:

flavor. I happen to love that flavor.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah.

Bam Bam:

You're like a cat trying not to make it sound.

Chef Ricky:

Did you crack open your Guinness?

Rooster:

No. Not yet. Why not, dude?

Senator:

Oh, come on. I think we gotta hear the

Chef Ricky:

I think it's gonna improve your system.

Pagoda:

Is nonalcoholic.

Gizmo:

Let's do it.

Bam Bam:

Good to see you, John.

Gizmo:

Cold too. I I had it in the fridge.

Bam Bam:

It was cold. I know

Pagoda:

he wants to have it at room temperature.

Rooster:

I just like it in a glass. That's a problem.

Gizmo:

Oh, here we go. Okay.

Senator:

Does he know he shook it? Just kidding.

Chef Ricky:

Thing's gonna drink

Senator:

like a yahoo.

Bam Bam:

There you go.

Chef Ricky:

Oh, it's a draft can. Nice.

Gizmo:

Oh, yeah. Only the best for my friend rooster on his burger.

Pagoda:

Mummelo. Mummelo.

Gizmo:

There you go. So boys, we have to go back to a story that we told quite some time ago, 60 some odd episodes ago, over a year, of a guy that, was pretty famous, on the Facebook scene

Senator:

for selling

Gizmo:

Cuban cigars. We called them Mickey Mouse. And, there was a big expose done on Reddit that, blew up, and I couldn't believe the reaction from people there. And I ended up finding out about it because we got tagged a couple times. People talking about the episode that we did, with this guy.

Gizmo:

And, senator, how would you describe Mickey Mouse's operation?

Bam Bam:

How would you describe the operation?

Gizmo:

How would you describe the operation?

Bam Bam:

Well, first of all, was it an operation?

Gizmo:

It was an enterprise. Oh, okay.

Senator:

Brings it up. Now I gotta clean this mess up somehow. Jesus. I I would describe this guy as, an enterprising individual who clearly saw an opportunity with a product like Cuban cigars that a lot of people don't know or understand very well, but is sought after and people certainly pursue aggressively. And, I think he very cleverly created this Facebook group slash cult slash cult, convincing people that he and only he could give people access to real Cuban cigars, aged aged Cuban cigars.

Senator:

And in the process of doing this, for years, proceeded to knock every other type of cigar that he did not sell. He said, Padron is like a golf cart

Bam Bam:

Yes.

Senator:

When you could be driving a Ferrari and smoking the stuff that he sells. Then, ironically, as the supply of Cuban cigars started to become a bit more scarce, he started selling Padron Cigars and telling people that they're amazing. They should

Rooster:

all buy

Senator:

How convenient. So I bring that up because, like, that's how much of a shyster this guy is right to say that something is a horrible product and then all of a sudden be promoting it a year late. I mean, that's just how he has operated. And, I think the the biggest sham has been the age he claims these cigars have. You cannot buy boxes from the guy.

Senator:

You can only buy singles from this guy.

Gizmo:

He There are no box dates or codes.

Senator:

No dates. No codes. No pictures.

Pagoda:

No

Senator:

pictures. They're not color matched when you get them. I mean, it is the most outrageous operation, and he talks about this proprietary secret aging program that he has, which involves him just stuffing a bunch of cigars in Tupperware With wet paper towel. And aging them. I mean, it it it's like the biggest joke I've ever seen.

Senator:

And so, you know, this guy is obviously not doing this legally. He's running this business business out of some basement of his in some southern state. We'll just leave it there. And, yeah, this is a guy who I my only frustration is just that, you know, you wanna sell a product and you wanna tell the truth about the product. No problem.

Senator:

I I wish you all the best and and the greatest success in the world. But the fact that this guy we know has actively lied to countless people, that's the part that I think a lot of us have a hard time with. And we talk about in Cuban cigars how important it is to know where you're sourcing your stuff from to be able to be confident that it is real, that it is of the age that people claim. And this guy's the complete opposite of that, so I just feel sad for people who he has clearly deceived for years' time that think they're getting something that they're not from this guy.

Rooster:

I think part of the reason why he was successful in the beginning because you couldn't really buy singles of Cuban cigars,

Gizmo:

which Pagoda notes almost every time we talk about loving a Cuban cigar at a high dollar point, you you're most of the time, you're having to buy boxes.

Bam Bam:

And for some of us early in the journey In

Senator:

the states.

Gizmo:

In the states.

Senator:

In the states. Right.

Bam Bam:

Some of us early in the journey, that's an intriguing opportunity.

Rooster:

And that's where he is. He's in the states. He's here. Yeah. So for a lot of the guys, I mean, you know, we were

Gizmo:

I mean, all of us room.

Rooster:

Yeah. Even in this, we we were able to get some singles, so they were decent. But the problem was when you ask him, well, what ear is this cigar? What's the age on it? And he we couldn't tell you.

Rooster:

No information. His reason was the way I aged the cigars are out of the boxes. So I have no idea what box this came out of. That's why they were not color matched, and he would age them in Tupperware. But not knowing, and this was kind of early in our Cuban journey, we had no idea you know, we knew what we were smoking was most likely a Cuban cigar.

Rooster:

I don't think they were fakes, at least in the beginning. But not being able to purchase boxes was a huge

Senator:

Red flag.

Rooster:

Red flag.

Senator:

Verify anything.

Bam Bam:

I mean,

Senator:

that that's the scary part. It's like, sure, in the beginning, we had smoked enough of those cigars to know what's real and what's not. But for someone who's barely smoked any Cuban cigars that's purchasing from him and this guy preys on people, so he knows. He knew we were discerning buyers. There's no chance that he could sell us a fake Cuban cigar we wouldn't immediately detect it.

Senator:

But when he knows someone is new in this hobby, I'm told that this guy hasn't slipped a ban on a cigar that is probably fake. I mean, there's no way because he's proven to be untrustworthy. This guy was lying to people saying that their the scarcity of Cuban cigars is gonna get so bad, no one's gonna be able to find d fours or all these cigars. You must buy what I have now because you'll never find these things.

Bam Bam:

I mean,

Senator:

it was the biggest lie of all time.

Bam Bam:

That's true.

Gizmo:

And he keeps iterating the bullshit.

Bam Bam:

Correct.

Gizmo:

It's it's a constant

Bam Bam:

new story. To evolve.

Gizmo:

There's a there's a constant evolution in his lying. And the reason why we talk about on this podcast and and bringing it up because of what happened here on Reddit, which I'll talk about in a minute, is that this is a warning to folks out there that if it seems too good to be true, it is. And we've talked about that so many times. And this guy is just a scam artist, and he's a liar, and he's preying on people who are looking for something that is hard to find, is scarce, and they really want it.

Bam Bam:

Mhmm.

Gizmo:

And it's just in this small community of people that we have in Cuban cigars and cigars in general, there's just no room for this. It's just not appropriate, and it's not fair. And there are so many good vendors out there who are selling good quality product at the correct price, and you can get the information you need. And you know what you're buying is legitimate. We need to steer folks away from this cult.

Senator:

And this guy, by the way, you know, just talking about being dishonest, he was actively telling people that websites that we are certain sell authentic Cuban cigars. He's perpetuating a bunch of lies saying that all the websites are fakes. IHavana's, Terminal?

Gizmo:

Cigar Store?

Senator:

Cigar Terminal. I mean, sites we've bought from for years. That's why we publish the guide that we have on our social media. We know the authenticity of that product. And the guy's actively lying to people and creating this fear so that they only buy from him.

Senator:

And that's where when Gizmo says cult, like, that that he's created this environment where he and only he can be the provider of Cuban cigars, which is just a lie.

Gizmo:

He thinks he's the wizard of Oz. Like, there's this curtain, and he operates in this fantasy land.

Bam Bam:

Lot of

Gizmo:

And a lot of people buy into it.

Bam Bam:

It's a lot of lessons to be learned here.

Rooster:

I mean, had he been more transparent about the whole thing and not lie about and give you fake details about this, you know, that's what turns people off. I mean, it's okay if you're selling singles because a lot of people, you know, wanna try different markers, but are not able to or don't want to commit to a whole box. See if we can get a fiber of something or a singles or try different stuff. But be honest.

Bam Bam:

Mhmm.

Rooster:

You know?

Senator:

And if everything if I'm truly to believe that everything this guy sells is real, why not for those of us who want to buy by the box, Why not sell us boxes? Correct. You don't have to take every single cigar out of the box and do your bullshit aging thing. Keep some of them in boxes for people who buy in volume like us and sell singles for the guys who wanna buy singles. That's not an option, and that's what's a massive red flag to me.

Gizmo:

And the Padrons that you mentioned, he also sells Davidoff. You can get all of those by the box.

Bam Bam:

That's right.

Gizmo:

No problem. Yep.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. Wonder

Gizmo:

why. Not a problem. Wonder why. I can't imagine why. Correct.

Gizmo:

So the reason why we're bringing this up again after so long, is not to just trash this guy again, but on Reddit here, the user kind blackberry did a 4 part expose on this guy, and I couldn't believe the volume of responses. I mean, we're talking hundreds of people saying that they had dealt with this guy before, gotten kicked out of groups. And then a lot of you know, there were folks too saying, wow. I still buy from this guy. I thought he was legitimate.

Gizmo:

Like, it was a good public service that happened.

Pagoda:

Mhmm.

Gizmo:

And what I love is the response that happened after this whole Reddit thing blew up that this guy first, he closed his group, so the group is gone. Now he has a little, like, exclusive group. I got kicked out of both a long time ago for opening my mouth, if you remember.

Bam Bam:

Oh, we heard This is

Gizmo:

We remember. For the for the listener.

Senator:

I mean, this is like North Korea where, like, if you voice an ounce of dissent, like, that's it. You're out. I mean, Gizmo, this guy wanted to send him to a camp.

Bam Bam:

I mean,

Senator:

it was insane.

Gizmo:

Simply because I said I I forget. It was, you know, it was when all the scarcity was happening right after COVID. Right? During COVID, you know, in that kind of middle point there where he was saying that if you don't buy now, you know, d fours are gonna be $50. 60, $70.

Gizmo:

It's like, the guy's so full of shit. Yeah. So, anyway, so he then post a a a response to this whole Reddit thing without saying anything about the Reddit thing. Clearly, it was because of this a day or so later. He wrote an important update.

Gizmo:

I've said it year after year, meeting the growing demand of my customers has become increasingly difficult. Over the years, maintaining and sourcing enough Cuban inventory has been a continuous challenge, and it's only worsened since COVID. The 12 days of Christmas back to school events that I do just murder my reserve inventory. So he's blaming his own sales for his lack of inventory and his his inability to source. Like, just comical.

Gizmo:

He says, with that in mind, I have some exciting updates to share about the changes coming in the next few months. 1st, another firm is absorbing the majority of my business, and the negotiations were finalized late last year.

Bam Bam:

Is it 4 times earnings?

Rooster:

No. It's called the ATF.

Gizmo:

And the FBI he says this means that all of our custom blends and New World products will soon be available on their website at prices consistent with what you've come to expect and global shipping as well. By funneling everything through this new platform, it will make ordering much easier and more convenient for you. It'll give me more time to enjoy blending, these blending boys, and delivering unique products at better price points. 2nd, I will no longer be able to continue operating in the old world cigar market, the Cuban market, due to the inventory challenges, rising prices, and other factors. Again, additionally, dealing with ongoing attempts to not only tarnish my name, but my wife's name also has made this aspect of the business less enjoyable.

Gizmo:

I feel terrible for this guy.

Senator:

Those are you his wife. This guy, if you've ever been on a live auction with

Bam Bam:

this guy

Senator:

He's, like, screaming at her. Yelling at his wife like she's, like, works in a sweatshop for him.

Bam Bam:

Honey, make the pot roast.

Senator:

It's ridiculous.

Rooster:

He's a master blender.

Gizmo:

He's a master blender. Though he's a master bullshitter. Those of you who've been with me for years know the effort and passion I've poured into this all as a hobby and not by any means as an income I rely on. What a joke. Heck, probably a 100 of you have been to my house and been a and have been privy to see the operation.

Gizmo:

I would love to go there and see the operation. Okay. And our families and children have made lifelong friendships. The time has come to shift away from old old world cigars and focus on other adventures and get back to enjoying life.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. Outside looking in, this sounds like a cult.

Gizmo:

Yeah. Finally, for my this is the best. Finally, for my loyal customers, I'm still here to work with you 1 on 1 as we transition to this new model and liquidate the inventory.

Bam Bam:

Oh, yeah.

Gizmo:

Stay tuned for updates about the new website, which I'm confident will offer a smoother and better experience for everyone. This change will also give me the freedom to dedicate time to enjoying new projects. Thank you for your continued support as we take this next step forward, Mickey Mouse. I mean, the bullshit is endless with this guy. I just love again, the sales the sales events are draining his inventories to impossibly low numbers.

Senator:

Yeah. And that inventory is low. I'm sorry. If you've been on any Cuban cigar website that sells legitimate cigars, the inventory is great. Go to I have you you can find most of anything you're looking for.

Rooster:

Yeah. I mean, it was low for, like, some time, but

Senator:

now it's

Rooster:

almost back to normal.

Gizmo:

You can

Rooster:

pretty much find anything.

Senator:

Also because the prices are now so aggressive that, like, people are not buying and stocking up in the way that they were before.

Bam Bam:

And

Rooster:

that's the main reason why he's not he's out.

Bam Bam:

Right? I'm just sitting here think absorbing everything you're saying. You know, remember when we first started smoking Cuban cigars, how almost gullible we were way back then? No. It's kind of heartbreaking to think that guys and girls that are looking for Cubans are going to someone like this.

Bam Bam:

It's truly damaging to what we do. It is. Cigar industry overall.

Gizmo:

And that is the point of discussing this. Yeah. It's awful. You know, it's not because we enjoy No. Shitting on this guy.

Bam Bam:

That's a lesson learned.

Gizmo:

This is a lesson learned. Pod. But on the pod, the public service that KIND Blackberry did here on Reddit that we're sharing with the masses here is that you really need to trust your vendor. And if it seems too good to be true, it is. And this cult mentality that senator pointed out when he was talking about the way that this guy works, it's just such a shady way.

Bam Bam:

Of course.

Gizmo:

And and what we're doing is supposed to You know? We're supposed to enrich and share and give and, you know, we're always sitting

Bam Bam:

with each other and

Gizmo:

share yeah. And educating. That's what we do here. It's like it's just it's a real shame that this this operation has existed for as long as it has, and and I hope that, that he's honest in that he's shutting some of it down and that people will learn to not do business with people. It's a

Bam Bam:

good lesson because you wanna tell people that are just getting into Cuban cigars, ask those that aren't trying to sell you cigars like this podcast. And there are many other podcasts that aren't selling cigars. Go to people that are smoking them, that know what they are. Get some advice. Get some direction.

Bam Bam:

Don't go to people like this. And there are probably a lot of people like this.

Gizmo:

Exactly. And that listen. There are websites out there. You know, chef Ricky has a friend who unfortunately got scammed by swisscubancigars.com. And if you Google Swiss Cuban cigars, you'll find stuff saying that they're legitimate because they put up websites Yeah.

Gizmo:

Writing about themselves that then Google crawled saying that they're legitimate.

Bam Bam:

Unreal.

Gizmo:

You have to trust your vendor. Go to our Instagram. Correct. Email us. Correct.

Gizmo:

Like a lot of listeners do. Is this a decent site to buy? Should I buy these? Should I buy that? We're happy to help.

Gizmo:

You need to trust your vendors.

Chef Ricky:

Yep. And if something seems too good to be true, do not ignore that. That is one of the first red flags

Bam Bam:

Mhmm.

Chef Ricky:

That are gonna pop up every single time. Just trust your gut trust your gut in these things. And the last thing you wanna do is, as you said, talk to the vendor or ask your vendor the question. Hey. Are these you know, what do you expect the guy to say?

Chef Ricky:

He's not gonna tell you what he's selling you as counterfeit.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. I sell fakes. Yeah.

Chef Ricky:

You know? So, yeah, a 100%. You know, trust your gut, do your research, and and do your research on your research.

Gizmo:

Alright, boys. It's time now to go to some listener email. First one here from is from lizard Carlos. He says, hello, lounge lizards. Happy New Year.

Gizmo:

It's been great to kick off the year with your pods. It's always in entertaining and insightful. I wanted to share a couple of tequila recommendations for you to consider. Fuenteseca? Yeah.

Gizmo:

Cosecha 2018.

Chef Ricky:

Amen to that. We did the, so on our first tequila deep dive, we didn't really speak of this one much, but this was the boneless bottle that I brought to the to Center's Lounge.

Bam Bam:

Got it.

Chef Ricky:

It was high proof. This was the I wanna say it was the 2012 or 2008 vintage. Do not remember, the exact bottle.

Bam Bam:

That was a long time ago.

Senator:

And that's the one I had at that event in Chicago. This is what you had with music

Chef Ricky:

that yes. This guy knows what he's doing.

Gizmo:

Another one here, Nuebe Uno Tequila Blanco.

Chef Ricky:

Nuebe uno. I'm not familiar with that. I'm I hope he's not talking about 901, which was Justin Timberlake's brand many years ago.

Gizmo:

I don't think so. I doubt that's the one. We'll look those up. And he says here, on another note, I have to agree with Pagoda.

Bam Bam:

There we

Gizmo:

go. Please stop saying I'd pay way more for this bottle. The poor guy nearly had a heart attack.

Bam Bam:

He's a value guy.

Gizmo:

He's a value man. Now onto some onto a suggestion, which I believe someone else mentioned something similar in a previous episode. When giving your ratings, could you hold off on discussing the price of the cigar and the pairing until after everyone has shared their ratings?

Bam Bam:

That's difficult to do.

Gizmo:

Is it we'll respond to that in a sec. He says he continues, as someone who has gone through the podcast twice and is currently on a 3rd run, which, by the way

Bam Bam:

Wow.

Gizmo:

Is unbelievable. Thank you, lizard Carlos.

Chef Ricky:

It shouldn't be difficult to do. We get the split wise a year later.

Bam Bam:

You know what? That's true, and it's a bankroll to pay it off.

Gizmo:

I've noticed that price disclosures can influence how the ratings come across. The experience with the cigar and the spirit at the in the moment is what really matters, and those who are willing to pay a higher price will ultimately make that choice. Revealing the price upfront feels like it detracts from the purity of the ratings. Additionally, I'd suggest having everyone share their ratings individually before explaining their reasons. This could help eliminate any indirect influence within the group and allow for more authentic feedback.

Chef Ricky:

I think that's stuff to do because anyone you know, until you've smoked a cigar, in most cases, you're not willing to dish out a large sum of money for a cigar you've never had and not knowing its pedigree. And, yeah, that might be something you're willing to do after the fact.

Gizmo:

The one thing I I took from the suggestion here is I know sometimes we'll get halfway through the ratings, and then someone will say, hey. How much is this bottle again? Mhmm. You know, to me, I do think that value plays into the ratings on both the CR and the pairing. Sure.

Gizmo:

So I think doing that beforehand so everybody has complete information, that is absolutely, I think, a a workable solution to to what lizard Carlos is saying here.

Chef Ricky:

I think the perfect example of that is a Don Fulano 20.

Gizmo:

But I knew what that price was from the beginning. $250.

Senator:

But I I just like I'm sorry. To me, this is this is a macro thing. Like, any product, that that's like saying, like, I wanna go test drive a car and have someone sell me the car and not tell me the price until the very end. And it's like, you sit in the car, and if they tell you the car is $50,000 or a $100,000, I mean, how you feel about that experience is dramatically different. Like, at a $100,000, everything better be damn perfect.

Pagoda:

Correct.

Senator:

And at $50,000, you're willing to make concessions. So I just feel like the same thing with a cigar. Like, my expectation for a cigar that is $60

Gizmo:

Oh.

Senator:

Has to and should deservingly be way higher than a cigar that's $10. And that's why I am going to be more forgiving in how I rate. You know, they they were able to produce this at only $10. I I have to be forgiving in some areas. Like, that's a tremendous value.

Senator:

And if they can deliver an experience that we enjoy, I'm gonna reward that. But at $60, it better be damn near perfect.

Gizmo:

Correct. Absolutely right.

Bam Bam:

Now that goes opposite, like, with the cigar, like the Aladina that we can get for $6. And we rate it a 10. A tremendous extremely tremendous value. That's also why

Senator:

we rate it a 10. Right. Exactly. If it were $60, it's not gonna be a 10.

Gizmo:

No. No. The other thing too here that I'll say in the way that we operate is that if you know? And and we experienced this 2 weeks ago with the my father, the judge, the cigar of the year, cigar aficionado. You know, I I gave it a 3.

Gizmo:

There were a couple fours. Pagoda gave it a 6. You know?

Chef Ricky:

A decoder.

Senator:

In case we forgot it.

Bam Bam:

Let's not relive that.

Gizmo:

My point is though that that I am not I am not peer pressured or feeling influenced by anyone else in the room because our whole goal here is to provide value for you out there, our listeners. So I I don't think anyone in this room is gonna be swayed by anyone else in this room because at the end of the day, what we rate it doesn't really affect us per se. We're trying to give you the most accurate representation and and rating of what we experienced in the room that night. So to me, like, if senator says this cigar is a 6 and I rate it a 10, like, we're gonna walk out of here. It's there's no different.

Gizmo:

There's no change. You know? So I I don't feel that that is a material thing for us. Like, I'm by the before we rate, I know what I'm gonna rate this cigar.

Chef Ricky:

Sure. Yeah. And and I think at times, you know, there was a cigar. I forget what it was, but Pagoda gave it, you know, maybe 2 points lower than everyone else, and I rated after him. And because of that, I did almost wanna give it a point higher just to balance out the rating, but I'd refrain from doing so.

Bam Bam:

Don't do

Chef Ricky:

that. Because

Gizmo:

it needs to be accurate. Yeah.

Chef Ricky:

Correct. So, yeah, I I think we're all mature enough here in on this panel to

Bam Bam:

Sometimes.

Gizmo:

And I hope that lizards out there who look at our ratings guide on the website of of the historical ratings we've done, each individual rating is there. You can see some of them, certainly cigars that perform well, we're all kind of on the same page, and other times, it's all over the place. You know, if if people are experiencing, you know, different things in a cigar or enjoying it versus someone else. So I'd encourage you to look at that and, you know, read the ratings and see what, see what you think. So he finishes here, I've been a tequila drinker for years, and I've never really ventured out outside of that, but I finally dove into trying some Argentinian wine, Macallan 12 year sherry cask, Oban 14, which I found on sale for $54 at my favorite store rooster, Costco.

Pagoda:

No way. Are you sure that's Oban or it's Obana?

Chef Ricky:

Costco needs to hit the bingo card.

Pagoda:

$54? Yeah.

Chef Ricky:

That that's been

Gizmo:

That might be the center square.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. Maybe 12 episodes in a row now.

Gizmo:

As for Paul Roger, let's just say this bottle is absolutely amazing. Cheers, senator.

Senator:

Love that.

Gizmo:

He says, thanks again for all the great content you're creating. I look forward to more amazing episodes this year. Cheers, lizard Garifo.

Bam Bam:

Good email.

Gizmo:

What a great guy. Yeah. Great email. So, boys, before we continue in our emails, we have a couple more. We're coming to the end of the second, 3rd.

Gizmo:

We're coming into the last 3rd now on the Paul Garmirian 25th anniversary in Bellicoso. What's everybody thinking?

Rooster:

The cigar has gotten heavy. It's gotten, like, nicotine heavy.

Chef Ricky:

Oh, yeah. Now. Yeah. Am I right? 1000%.

Gizmo:

I'm not experiencing that.

Bam Bam:

Neither am I.

Pagoda:

I've not.

Gizmo:

No. I've not I've not really experienced a material change in the

Bam Bam:

I feel like it's gotten buttery, salty, for me.

Gizmo:

Yeah. Yeah. I'm enjoying it here.

Bam Bam:

It's fairly smooth. I can't say that I hate it.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. No. No. Not at all.

Bam Bam:

I I kinda like this right now.

Gizmo:

I do too. I I I remain intrigued and entertained by the cigar. I've used those words a couple times tonight. I I'm I I So I I find it it's you know what, though? It's not a casual smoke.

Gizmo:

It's not that.

Bam Bam:

That's true. It's not a casual smoke, but where would you slot this in, let's say, if you could get a box or a couple of these?

Pagoda:

Well, would you slaughter this?

Chef Ricky:

This is gonna be an occasion smoke.

Gizmo:

Yeah. This is a good question. This is occasional. Definitely occasional.

Chef Ricky:

Occasional waxing.

Gizmo:

But I think it stands alone.

Bam Bam:

Senator scowling. So

Gizmo:

It stands alone in its flavor profile. I'm sorry. It does.

Bam Bam:

Do you not like this at all?

Senator:

I I don't like how this is finishing. I don't. Wow. You know, I said I was confused early on, and I held out hope because there were different directions that this cigar could take. Some of which would appeal to my palate and others which would not.

Senator:

And, it's just still ending too dry. I just need something more interesting in this flavor profile than, like, these dry, earthy notes with just teasing us with a hint of sweetness Mhmm. When it needs far more to be a balanced cigar.

Bam Bam:

It's like your mom handing you an M and M when you were a kid. You want a handful, and you get one. And then you go back to the border.

Gizmo:

Begode, you're nodding as a senator speaking. You seem to agree with him?

Pagoda:

Yeah. Pretty much. So I've been on, you know, the journey throughout. I it's been, I think, you know, having the rum has really helped. Without the rum, I think, you know, this is one of those cigars I would have put down, although I don't.

Pagoda:

You know, I tend to smoke it to the end, but still not really enjoying it. And, you know, you'll hear more around the radar.

Rooster:

I know I know what happened with your cigar. You didn't recut it.

Pagoda:

Ah. No. But the smoke output has been great.

Bam Bam:

It has. Combustion. Let's see it. It's been amazing. You haven't seen this puff?

Bam Bam:

There you go.

Senator:

Well alright. Alright.

Gizmo:

Oh, that's better than the my father. Nice smoke output there.

Bam Bam:

Not that good, but we'll take it.

Gizmo:

Alright, boys. A couple more listener emails here, and we'll get into the ratings. This one is from Blizzard Shawnee Bro. He writes us a lot. Always great to hear from him.

Gizmo:

He says, guys, as a fan of lighter cigars, I think you guys would like Lampert. Lampert, l a m p e r t, and Castaglia stuff. We did do a Castaglia cigar, I believe, on the podcast.

Bam Bam:

Did we?

Gizmo:

I believe we did. I think it was, battle of the brave or something or sister of the brave. Vaguely remember.

Rooster:

I believe you

Senator:

said you were

Chef Ricky:

in the market.

Gizmo:

Yeah. We definitely did that, I think. He says here the castagli Mireva Spalato number 2 in particular is an amazing smoke with a lot of nuance. So we'll eye up doing those. We'll check those out.

Gizmo:

This one's from Lizard Grizzly. He also writes this a lot. Great to hear from these guys. He says, hi, guys. I wanted to make a suggestion for a cigar to try after hearing and he list of very not kind name to Tuxedo Timmy.

Gizmo:

After hearing Timmy complain that you guys don't do larger format cigars and also keeping in mind budget, what about trying the New World Punch Signature in Robusto? It's a 54 by 5 inch cigar, and I've really been enjoying them lately. It could be a nice jumping off point for getting into larger ring gauges and also adding another New World cigar from an Old World brand that has transitioned into the New World.

Pagoda:

Russo's gonna love it.

Gizmo:

I think so.

Pagoda:

Think so too. You like?

Senator:

A Dominican punch? I'm just confused. That's a Robusto, but it's 54 ringgit. Yeah. I guess

Gizmo:

it's probably a Robusto extra, technically.

Senator:

I mean, that's not a normal Robusto.

Gizmo:

Or a Robusto Grande. Double Toro? Double Toro. That's like

Rooster:

a that's episode 1 callback.

Gizmo:

Alright. And finally, from Lizard Detaniel, he says, hi, Giz. Hope all is well with you. I'm curious if you guys have ever taken on the mold versus plume debate on any of your pods in the past. If yes, can you point me to which episode?

Gizmo:

If not, would you consider repeating your information on this topic? I know this has been in people's minds recently given, Jaseem's video. That's one of Habanos' influencers with the fancy suits and all that, and it would be great to see where you guys stand on the issue. Separately, I recently found something which would appear in my cigar to be plume and curious for your, curious for your thoughts. Thanks, and warm regards kindly, lizard Nathaniel.

Gizmo:

So there's one quick answer to this. Plume is always mold. If you have any white moldy looking substance on your cigars, it is mold. Plume does not exist. It is a myth created by cigar retailers who keep their cigars too wet, and, they sell it as an aging component and a flavor component and everything else.

Gizmo:

Listen. If you want to smoke your cigars with some white dots on it, be my guest. However, there is no distinction between plume and mold. Plume is mold. Now if you want some technical data on this, you can go to fohcigars.com, go to the forum at Friends of El Habano.

Gizmo:

Rob Iowa, for many years now, has a bounty available to anyone proving that plume is not mold scientifically. It's a high dollar bounty, and it has not been proven. There's been scientific studies. Guys have put it under microscopes, etcetera. Plume is mold.

Gizmo:

There's a lot of different variations of tobacco mold that can exist. However, there is no such thing as plumes. So any retailer telling you that, again, is bullshit. So, if you have white dots on your stuff, wipe it off, bring your humidity down on these cigars, get rid of it, change your environment. You do not want that.

Gizmo:

If it's on the foot of the cigar

Chef Ricky:

That's garbage.

Gizmo:

You need to throw those cigars out. Correct.

Chef Ricky:

And I I think that's ultimately what people are looking for. They just wanna know, should they throw these things out or smoke them? And as Gizmo said, if it's on the foot, get rid of it. If it's on the surface, wipe it off, lower your humidity, and then have at it. But

Senator:

And when we say the foot, we don't mean on the wrapper by the foot. We mean literally Mhmm. Like, it has gotten to the inside of the cigar.

Bam Bam:

Exactly right. You

Senator:

don't wanna be smoking and inhaling mold, but anything on the wrapper that is white mold will easily wipe off and should not be thrown out.

Bam Bam:

I do

Senator:

wanna make that clear. So hopefully that helps.

Pagoda:

You might even wanna water that cigar. You know, put it under

Bam Bam:

a tap. Sprinx rinse off the

Gizmo:

mold with more water. Yeah.

Bam Bam:

You know, it's been a long time since anyone has attempted to do that again.

Gizmo:

Yeah. We haven't

Chef Ricky:

done that yet.

Bam Bam:

We kinda like it.

Chef Ricky:

I did it a couple weeks ago. I forget

Bam Bam:

which Did you?

Chef Ricky:

With which cigar.

Bam Bam:

Wow.

Chef Ricky:

But it was just a little on the dryer side.

Gizmo:

And

Chef Ricky:

I did it to protect the wrapper as I was smoking it.

Bam Bam:

If you do find mold, I would take all the cigars out of that box. I would wipe the inside of that box out as well. Wipe the cigars and put them back in. Maybe even keep them on your desk until you can get your humidity down.

Gizmo:

Listen. At the end of the day, plume or mold is not gonna develop unless the humidity and temperature situation is high. And and temperature being around room temperature is fine. There is a myth out there about temperature that you need to keep your cigars at 50, 60 degrees. Room temperature is fine, 70 degrees Fahrenheit.

Gizmo:

It's all about the delta between humidity and temperature resulting in the percent moisture content in the cigar, and it's not going mold is not going to develop on your cigars if your humidity is low enough. So k. And your temperature's low.

Chef Ricky:

Right for it.

Gizmo:

Yeah. The conditions have to be right.

Chef Ricky:

So to add context to that, I mean, you guys have some really old cigars. Right? So Mhmm. Rooster, what's the oldest you're shaking your head no.

Pagoda:

Oh, yeah.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. He's got cigars from 1938.

Chef Ricky:

Did do they have any plume

Pagoda:

on From 18/14. No. No. No.

Gizmo:

No. No. No

Rooster:

plume on my cigars. But, Giz, you might wanna mention, like, how to lower the humidity down, you know, in a pinch.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. I need

Pagoda:

a cylinder.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. In a pinch. I just wanna cylinder.

Gizmo:

No. The best way to do it, if if I if I, for some reason, which would never happen unless there was an emergency in my house and I couldn't get to my collection for a certain period of time. If I found some sort of mold or, quote unquote, plume situation on my cigars, I would isolate the ones that had mold. I'd put them in a Tupperdort, and I would get Boveda 58% packs, and I would I would isolate them from the rest of my collection, make sure the rest of my collection's humidity is also reducing so they don't have mold, and then allow those isolated cigars to come down. Listen.

Gizmo:

Cuban cigars smoke best between 61 65% relative humidity. Relative is the keyword. They're relative to room temperature, 70 degrees Fahrenheit ish, and new world cigars, I believe, smoke better between 64 and 67. Some folks like it a little higher. But once you get over 70% humidity, when you're at room temperature, you're you're putting yourself in a position for mold.

Rooster:

The cigars are also not gonna burn well.

Gizmo:

No. You're gonna have burn issues. You're gonna find water and wine. Yeah. Yep.

Gizmo:

Yep. Yeah. So that's the in, that's the answer to that question, wizard Nathaniel. Thanks for writing in. If you have any other questions or any other listeners out there experiencing this, feel free to write us.

Gizmo:

We're happy to help. And that's that, boys. Yeah. Great great batch of emails tonight. Thank you all, for writing us.

Gizmo:

We love hearing from everybody. So, boys, we're coming to the end of our evening here with the tra Riviera's extra old Agricole rum from K and L Wine Merchants.

Senator:

Alright. Because before the French, like, really get upset, the first word

Pagoda:

Trois. Trois.

Senator:

Trois. Have you not heard of a menage a trois? I mean, come on.

Bam Bam:

Well, he well, this is a good well, this is a there's a there's a fucking argument. That's not nice.

Gizmo:

That's not nice. That's not nice.

Senator:

French word everybody does know.

Gizmo:

That's true. I'll try it again.

Bam Bam:

Bam approved activities.

Gizmo:

Alright, boys. It's time to move into the ratings. First with the Trois Riviera. There we go. Extra old Agricole rum.

Gizmo:

Bam bam, you're up.

Bam Bam:

Not that easy because I have enjoyed this. Do you I really have. Do

Chef Ricky:

you need a second helping?

Bam Bam:

I I'm gonna have I wanna dig into this after after we record, but I think I'm at a firm 8. The cost, you know, it's it's a bit it's a bit expensive, but the experience, very, very rich. I'm still getting caramel on the finish. On the nose, I get really a deep vanilla. Is there heat a little bit, but I'm enjoying it.

Bam Bam:

It's very it's a very enjoyable heat. So I'm at a 8.

Gizmo:

K. Chef Ricky.

Chef Ricky:

I'm also at a very firm 8 here. I think it's a complex rum. I had a second helping second time around, got even sweeter. Mhmm. Much more rounded.

Chef Ricky:

The I I did encounter some note some parts with the cigar where it got a little tannic, and I think that was a cigar imparting its own influence. But I did enjoy it. I just think it added to the complexity of the rum. I love the nose. I love the the smell of cooked sugarcane, and I and I love how the cognac barrels influenced us.

Chef Ricky:

So, yeah, it's a firmate for me.

Gizmo:

Alright. Pagoda. I'm at

Pagoda:

an aid as well. I think when I smelted initially, it was, just a bit tough to take, but then as it aired out, I think it was, so much better. Like, it was fruitier, sweeter, just on the nose. And then, obviously, while having it, I really enjoyed it when the viscosity did not need you know, like, with drums, I will also go for ice. I haven't asked for ice at all.

Pagoda:

It was very easygoing. A little bit of sharpness in the end, which I really enjoyed in this particular rum. Yeah. It's an 8 for me.

Chef Ricky:

I just wanna point out that having me on the podcast has really helped conserve water.

Gizmo:

It has. Correct. Pagoda's a new

Bam Bam:

man situation here. He's evolved.

Pagoda:

I've evolved.

Gizmo:

So for me, it's a 9. I'm honestly surprised, that the other guys in the room, given the positive stuff you've the 3 of you have said so far senator hasn't, rated yet, but I love this rum. I I think it's great. I think the price point's a little high at a 150, but I loved it from the the nose to the first sip, how it paired with this cigar, how it could pair with other cigars. I felt like it was the next level up from some of the other rums that we've had in its flavor profile.

Gizmo:

I love the the the vegetal stuff about it. I love the interesting, you know, complex flavor profile. I I really loved it. I really loved it, and I'm surprised I'm the first 9. Very happy with this.

Bam Bam:

Well, you may not be.

Gizmo:

Senator.

Senator:

So I'm with the majority of the group. I'm also at an 8. And and it's not that I disagree with anything you're saying, Giz. I just think I can't not factor in the price. And we've had lots of different rums.

Senator:

I mean, there's only one other rum that we have felt we need to spend a 150 or more for, and and that was a 10. I mean, that's as good as it gets. That's that Santiago 20 year out of Cuba. I think for this, it's a complex rum. It's really satisfying.

Senator:

I think it it just drinks like a premium spirit. I mean, you don't need ice. There's complexity. I think, you know, the first thing you your first experience with this rum, you are immediately, like, kinda shocked by how sweet and sugarcane forward it is. And then the more you drink it, you just keep picking out these other notes that are right there with it.

Senator:

And so I think they did a really, really nice job when they made this. I think this is a great after dinner drink. I think with a drier balanced cigar, this is a perfect pairing. Not that it can also go with a sweeter cigar. I think it can.

Senator:

I just think, like, the ideal pairing would be with something on the drier, more balanced side. I would definitely drink it again. I would definitely recommend it. And I just only wish it was a bit cheaper because it's not something that I would buy as often at that price point. And, again, at that price point, it's gotta be a perfect experience, and I think, it could use some more balance if I was going to more regularly pursue this as like a occasion special occasion type spirit.

Bam Bam:

I was about to go there. I think this would be great in the winter. Definitely around the holidays. It's got a warming effect to it. I don't see myself drinking this in the spring or summer, but fall and winter, great candidate for that.

Gizmo:

Alright, boys. The formal liquor rating tonight on the Trois Riviera single barrel rum from K&L Merchants is an 8.2. Great score.

Bam Bam:

Nice score.

Gizmo:

Great score. I gotta I gotta ask you guys a question. And, senator, you specifically, because you talked about price. What do you think the price would be to move you to a 9 from a value standpoint on this rum?

Senator:

I've got it right in my head. Me too. 80 to $90 a bottle.

Bam Bam:

I I was gonna go about maximum a 110. 100. Yeah. Max 110. See, I

Pagoda:

I would have been much, much lower on that because

Bam Bam:

Well, you're a

Gizmo:

value guy. Nobody's surprised.

Pagoda:

I'm I'm a value guy, but not only that. You know, used to How how much forgot it? You know, you can have rums, like, which are 12 years age, like, in the Florida County. And is it that much more different where you're paying a $100 more for this? Listen.

Pagoda:

There's a lot of room for it to come down.

Bam Bam:

That's all

Pagoda:

I think.

Gizmo:

But there's I also think too, I at at 51%, this did not for me drink like a hot spirit. And and I think pairing with cigars, like, I'm actually looking for it. We have about half a bottle there. When we leave this podcast, when we hit stop on this recording

Senator:

Gizmo's gonna kill it. I I

Gizmo:

can't wait to have this with an Aladino and a Padronex placebo. That's my lineup tonight. I can't wait to pair this with both of those and see how it does because I think it's going to do very well, and I think this is a an interesting complex rum and the first that we've actually rated that's an Agricole that I think would work well across the gamut of cigars that we smoke.

Bam Bam:

Uh-uh. I think the exclusive was a great pairing. Aladino for me may be a

Pagoda:

question mark about the thin.

Bam Bam:

Just a small just a slight question.

Chef Ricky:

I think it could overwhelm the Aladino just a little

Bam Bam:

bit. Yeah.

Chef Ricky:

And this is also the second Agricole because the Clarion was an Agricole.

Gizmo:

Didn't rate that.

Chef Ricky:

Oh, you didn't?

Rooster:

Now we're gonna rate that.

Senator:

We didn't

Bam Bam:

drink it. But the yeah. We're we're still

Pagoda:

waiting for it to air out. It's been a year. I think

Bam Bam:

the was a great pairing with us. I think it's the good way about it. Yeah. Now what Cuban, guys, what Cuban would you pair with?

Rooster:

Maybe a

Gizmo:

RAS. He said RAS.

Bam Bam:

Ramon Olonis. Yeah.

Chef Ricky:

Especially someone number 3 all day.

Bam Bam:

Or number 1.

Gizmo:

Or number 1. Yeah. I think a Bolivar would be great

Bam Bam:

with this. Beep

Senator:

I agree with that.

Bam Bam:

The Royal Corona.

Gizmo:

Royal Corona would be awesome with this. Yeah. I wouldn't go punch.

Bam Bam:

I wouldn't go No QD.

Gizmo:

Cohiba. I wouldn't go QD from Cuba. Nothing floral. I would maybe go particus. I don't know how well I would like the cinnamon type of thing that we get with the classic particus with this.

Chef Ricky:

A d a d 4 would do well. No?

Senator:

No. I think it would

Bam Bam:

But e 2 would be a great

Rooster:

E 2 would be good with this.

Senator:

For this. Yeah. Agreed.

Bam Bam:

D 4 is nice with this, but I think e 2 would be more in parallel, maybe.

Senator:

The e 2 is drier Yeah. Which is what would, yep, go well with this.

Gizmo:

Alright, boys. It's time now to move into the formal lizard reading tonight on the Paul Garmirian 25th anniversary in Belicoso. Brewster, you're up.

Rooster:

I'm at a 7 for the cigar. I think at $25 price point, there's a lot of competition. No.

Senator:

No. We're not allowed to say the price.

Bam Bam:

Oh, sorry. Just kidding.

Gizmo:

Wizard Carrefour is gonna be mad.

Bam Bam:

Correct.

Rooster:

So there's a lot of competition, I mean, at that at that point. But, I mean, the cigar, I mean, it started out really spicy. It was a very spicy cigar in the beginning. You were getting a lot of white pepper and black pepper notes, which kind of did subside. The halfway point was probably the most delicious

Gizmo:

Mhmm.

Rooster:

For this cigar.

Bam Bam:

Second half was great.

Rooster:

Second half was good. The last third for me, I mean, it got a little bit heavier, punchier, kinda more like nicotine heavy. So I didn't enjoy the last 3rd. But having said that, I mean, I'm at a 7

Gizmo:

for the cigar. Okay. Senator.

Senator:

I'm at a 6.

Bam Bam:

Wow. Oh,

Gizmo:

I think I'm surprised to hear that. Well, I You

Bam Bam:

didn't like the dryness.

Senator:

Yeah. I I think overall, as I've said, it's just way too dry a cigar, which to me is not a balanced cigar. And I am, like, a a pallet that skews on the drier side in anything. Spirits, wine, cigars, you name it. But this just did not have enough of a sweet note to balance out all the dryness.

Senator:

I think the first third, like Rooster was saying, was very spicy. I I don't think it helped the cigar. I I didn't find it interesting. I think it detracted from the flavor notes that I was enjoying that that was overpowering. I think the second third was definitely the sweet spot.

Senator:

That's when I started to enjoy it, but my problem was then the last third, I didn't enjoy. And so, really, only about a third of the cigar I was happy with and 2 thirds I was left disappointed. The last 3rd for me, I lost a lot of the flavor notes I was enjoying in the 2nd 3rd, and I was just getting tobacco. Like, I it had lost a lot of those distinct notes that I was able to pick out early on. So, you know, the things I will say as far as, merits to the cigar, the construction was actually very, very good.

Senator:

Oh, yeah. Razor sharp burn. The ash held on.

Bam Bam:

Combustion was good.

Senator:

Combustion was very good. The draw was great.

Bam Bam:

Well made.

Senator:

So it's definitely a well made cigar. It was just the flavor didn't deliver. And I think at a $25 price point, it should never be the case that for my palate, I'm only enjoying a third of the cigar. And so, you know, I I can't see myself paying $25 to have this kind of experience again. It's a a 6 and and a soft, you know, somewhat of a recommend in that.

Senator:

If you like a really dry cigar that's well constructed, this will definitely suit your palate. There's no question there. But for what I what I normally pursue in a cigar, it's not something that I would pick up, if I had absolutely nothing else to smoke and someone gave it to me. Is it smokeable

Bam Bam:

On an island. Sure.

Senator:

But is it really, you know, something ideal that I would ever pursue? It's just not.

Rooster:

I would be curious for trying some other bottlers out of this. Yeah. Something else out of the gourmet series, I think it's worth trying.

Gizmo:

So for me, it's a 7. You know? I I found the cigar the whole way through to be interesting. It was complex. It was different.

Gizmo:

You know, we called out so many unique flavor notes about it. I thought it burned well. I thought the construction was very good. However, the cigar is not for me. You know, I can understand, and we talked about this a couple weeks ago, on a cigar we didn't enjoy saying we couldn't understand how anyone would enjoy that cigar.

Gizmo:

I can understand, as senator saying Mhmm. Someone saying, I really love this cigar. I I see merit in it. However, it's not for my palate. I probably would have given it an 8, you know, to lizard Garifot's email about price.

Gizmo:

If this cigar was $12 or $10, I think I might have been comfortable getting to an 8 on this.

Chef Ricky:

Nailed it.

Gizmo:

But at $25, I can't get there. It's just it it's not even in the ballpark of cigars at that price point and the way that it should, you know, you know, should hit each of us and should perform. I mean, construction, certainly, but flavor wise, it was kind of like I felt like I was playing ping pong with it, you know, like table tennis in the flavor notes, and we were all doing that. It was all over the place. The last third was satisfying to me.

Gizmo:

I did not experience Rooster was mentioning, like, a nicotine issue. You know? Senator said he didn't really love how it finished. I didn't mind how it finished. I thought it kinda took us on a little bit of a journey, but the journey is not for me.

Gizmo:

I won't reach for this one again. But I'm intrigued to try other Paul Garmirian cigars, and I think that we will have to definitely do another one probably from the main gourmet series somewhat somewhere down the line. For all that being said, boys, it's a 7 for me. Pagoda.

Pagoda:

It's a 6 for me. I think, this was, one of the cigars. I think I was leading towards the score from the very beginning. I was already at a 5 to 6. I, you know, one thing I must say, the wrapper did smell very nice.

Pagoda:

You know, and when you start smoking, I did get a little bit of hip hint. I don't know where you know, the sweetness coming from, I think, the dark chocolate and then the banana I got, and then that was it. It was after that, it was very earthy for me, but a little tobacco earthiness, you know, like, not the pleasant earthiness, which I typically really enjoy as well. So, it didn't leave a very, you know, pleasant flavor in my palate at all. It was dry for sure.

Pagoda:

I in fact, I had half a bottle of water for the first time along with this. And I think when we got into the pairing, I think it kind of helped, but did it really? Not too much. Having said that, there were a few reasonable puffs towards us, middle of the cigar. But, you know, spending $25, I don't think I would be buying this to present it to any friend or or any of that sort of thing.

Pagoda:

So for me, it's a 6. You know? It's not a recommend.

Rooster:

So the same score as the judge.

Pagoda:

Yeah. It

Bam Bam:

is. It is.

Gizmo:

It is. Good point, Rooster.

Pagoda:

I would not recommend that either. Right? And so it's it's But I

Rooster:

think this was better than the Judge.

Bam Bam:

I agree.

Gizmo:

To be honest. No. Go ahead. This is light years ahead

Bam Bam:

of the

Chef Ricky:

Judge. Yeah.

Senator:

Oh my god.

Pagoda:

The construction was great. You know, the smoke output was fantastic. Take it for what it's worth, but, you know, that's a 6 for me.

Gizmo:

Okay. Chef Ricky.

Chef Ricky:

Yeah. I'm I'm at a 7. You know, my favorite part of the cigar was the 2nd 3rd entering the final 3rd where it got a little creamy. I was getting some pine nut, little sunflower seed. But everywhere else, there was just kind of this volley between black pepper, white pepper, a little, like, apple c, like, when you get those tannic notes of accidentally biting into the core of the apple, which is what I think Bam was referencing with dried apples when you get some of that bitterness.

Chef Ricky:

You know, I I think it for this cigar to be in my wheelhouse and maybe all of ours, there definitely needed to be more sweetness, more balance, more cocoa, maybe some baking spice, and none of that was really present. It was a lot of dry tobacco earth, that was, the dominant flavor throughout this the experience. The rum helped it to to an extent, but I also think that it affected the flavor of the rum. So, yeah, for me, it's it's a 7. I think at $25 is a tough sell.

Chef Ricky:

You know, the the packaging or or the presentation of the cigar is not great, but the burn was beautiful. It was very Davidoffesque, very clean burn line, very tight wrapper, beautiful color on the ash. Ash held up well. At one point, I was pushing over 2 inches on an ash there. So the burn quality was great.

Chef Ricky:

But, yeah, flavor wise, I I'd give it a 7. This probably isn't something I'll grab for again, especially at that price point. I wouldn't be disappointed to smoke it. But, yeah, I think at best, it's a it's it's an occasional cigar just to kind of experience that and see what else you could pull out of it or see if it would smoke again, similar to how it did the first time for us.

Gizmo:

Alright, Bam.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. I think a 7 is a fair score. I I kind of enjoyed this because it was so different. I love the salty butteriness and the savoriness of the cigar. There's like, as senator said, I think a few of others said, there is a group of people that would love this particular cigar.

Bam Bam:

I think a 7 is very fair.

Pagoda:

My question is, how many of us in the room are gonna go and buy it?

Bam Bam:

None of us. Nobody.

Senator:

No. No one. And I I will say this. You know, what's surprising to me and and a little disappointing is when I I'd mentioned I wasn't familiar with this market. When I had just quickly googled, all I kept seeing was people talking about how they really love that the cigars usually like a lot of cocoa and cream.

Senator:

And I was like, oh my god. It sounds amazing. That's exactly the profile a lot of us love.

Bam Bam:

We didn't get that.

Senator:

So I I have to imagine that there are other Vitollas maybe that deliver that. So I would be other wines. Other lines. Yeah. And I I would definitely be interested in trying them, but that wasn't my experience with this.

Chef Ricky:

No. I also have to say just the word gourmet as a chef drives me fucking crazy. I I can't stand the word.

Bam Bam:

You know? To every market out there.

Gizmo:

You don't have a Sam, can you put that on your list of pet peeves for 2025?

Bam Bam:

That's number 11.

Chef Ricky:

That that is that is maybe number 2 for me. Oh. It's the word gourmet

Senator:

TV dinner?

Bam Bam:

Oh my god. You know, I

Chef Ricky:

hear my mom actually do oh, my son's a gourmet chef. I'm like, mom, please. You know? Like, what the fuck is it? What you are?

Gizmo:

See, now that we know that, we're gonna start referring you as gourmet chef Rick.

Bam Bam:

That's his new name. That's his new name. Yo. Gourmet chef. Gourmet.

Bam Bam:

Did you enjoy your cigar tonight?

Gizmo:

So, boys, the formal lizard rating tonight on the Paul Garmirian 25th anniversary in Belicoso is a 6.7. I think that was fair

Rooster:

for the

Gizmo:

experience Yep. That most everybody had in the room.

Chef Ricky:

It it would have been nice to see it at a 70.

Bam Bam:

Yeah. But the thing is

Chef Ricky:

Pagoda fucked it up.

Bam Bam:

So Well,

Senator:

I'm with Pagoda on this one.

Pagoda:

You you should have rated it innate. Yeah. Just to balance the score

Gizmo:

out. Pagoda's not gourmet. No. Well, no.

Pagoda:

He asked the question gourmet, you would've add another percentage.

Bam Bam:

Correct. Pagoda asked the question, will any of us go out and buy it? No. But there are people that love this type of cigar. It's for them.

Gizmo:

Yeah. You can see the merit in it. And it's And

Bam Bam:

it's for us. And it's okay.

Gizmo:

The experience we had tonight, it really does make me wanna get to those things that senator just mentioned that he read in reviews, like the sweetness, the cocoa, those other things. I they it's gotta be in there. It just wasn't in this cigar, and that's okay.

Chef Ricky:

It makes you really wanna smoke an esquevo.

Gizmo:

Exactly right.

Bam Bam:

Oh, yeah.

Gizmo:

And I think we're all gonna be doing that after we, finish this recording.

Senator:

I love all this exoscebo stuff.

Gizmo:

So, boys, let's go through it again. The Trois Riviera's single barrel rum from K and L Merchants scored an 8.2, and the Paul Garmirian 25th anniversary and Belicoso scored a 6.7. Both of those are debuts on the pod tonight. And, boys, we did not give out a lizard of the week, and we are going to give lizard of the week to our friend, lizard shaky, who sent us this awesome

Chef Ricky:

Yes.

Gizmo:

And very generous gift of, tois Riviera's rum. So thank you to lizard shaky. Taught Gizmo how

Senator:

to say tois.

Pagoda:

Correct.

Gizmo:

You did. So we really appreciate it, and anybody out there can win lizard of the week. All you have to do is send us an email, a comment, a voice memo, or a fantastic bottle of rum as lizard Shakey did tonight. Anybody can win. So, please keep in touch with us.

Gizmo:

Let us know what you're smoking, and let us know what you think. And that's it for tonight, boys. A great night with you all, and, happy birthday to our friend, Abuelo Rooster.

Rooster:

Thank you, sir. Birthday. Thank you.

Gizmo:

Hope you enjoy it. Of course, we have to thank our sponsor before we close, Fabrica 5. They're a great partner to us. Go check out some of their cigars, and, we'll see everybody next week. Hope you enjoyed this episode.

Gizmo:

Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, loungelizardspod.com. That's loungelizardspod.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, do you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking, email us, hello@loungelizardspod.com.

Gizmo:

You can also find us on Instagram atloungelizardspod. We really appreciate your time, and we'll, we'll see you next week.