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Beyond The Message is a weekly podcast that dives deeper into the weekend’s teaching. Released after each Sunday service, it offers thoughtful conversation, added insight, and practical reflection to help our community process and apply what they heard. Whether you're revisiting the message or catching up, this podcast is designed to help you go deeper throughout the week.
Welcome to Beyond the Message, the podcast where we take the weekly teaching at Christ Community Chapel and bring it into your week. Um, every week I get to sit down with my friends and colleagues and we, uh, laugh a little bit. We reflect about what we just listen to and then we think about how to live out what we are learning. And if you didn't get to see the sermon yet, that's okay. Go ahead down to the description and listen to the sermon, watch the sermon and then come back over here so that you can join in on this conversation. My name is Stacey and today I am joined by Brooks Montgomery, Mike Holwerda, and Pastor Zach Weihrauch. They're actually all pastors, but we have guest Pastor Zach with us today, which is very exciting. Very exciting, Very exciting. So glad to be with you guys. It's me and the boys today. That's right. That is your job most days. That is my job a lot of days. Okay. Before we get into talking about things, we have our little icebreaker. Uh, we haven't done a would you rather for a while and I know this is Zach's favorite part of the podcast. So what everybody tuned in for. Everybody tuned in to hear the fun stuff. So. Okay. It's fallout. This is gonna be a hard turn back into the sermon, but we're gonna do it. It's fallout. So a little like nuclear fallout. Fallout fall. Important detail. I just wanna make sure we're setting the scene so thinking about the leaves changing all things that post apocalyptic. Okay, well, listen to the question. So if you had to fend off for yourself and you had your choice was to fend off either 10 turkeys that are the size of a squirrel each or one squirrel that's the size of a turkey, what would you choose. It is ironic how much does Zach's point. These kind of can coexist quite well if it's fall outside or if this is some type of like nuclear spending. Uh, off for yourself, which one would you choose? 10 turkey sized squirrels. But turkeys are not ferocious creatures, are they? So I won't pretend to know a lot about turkeys, but I think I'd take 10 turkey sized squirrels. Uh, I just don't think they'd be very aggressive. But a big squirrel, yeah, you could have some bad intentions. I do have a squirrel that lingers in my backyard. Okay. So I'developed probably an abnormal fear for. Really? What does the squirrel do in your backyard? It will go to our patio and then it comes up to the patio door and just is unbothered by anything. So I would also take the 10 turkeys. Yeah. One big squirrel would probably be my nightmare. Your nightmare. Lydia and I currently have squirrels living somewhere in our attic. We're hearing them. It's been identified. It's a bit of a mess. Someone can help Brooks with that. Let us know. Brooks best case could be turkeys. That t know gives to that point. Just wait till Thanksgiving. You'll be fine. I feel like I'm living out this question a little bit and I know which way I'm gonna pick, so. Okay, man. So everybody's with. How about yourself? I would do the same because I do think. I just think this speed of a squirrel that is then maybe like 50 pounds or something like that. That could be terrifying. Where did this question come from? I don't know. Ok. Little bit. Little bit. Maybe a little chatgpt combined with my own twist. It's good. Yeah. So, you know, very good. Okay, uh, let's jump into the sermon. This is week two of Rise up where we're going through first Peter. Pastor Joe spoke this week and he was in 1 Peter, chapter 1, still verses 13 through 21. The header on that section is called to be holy. Um, so a look at what it means to be holy. And Pastor Joe walked through three points that were great. Um, it started with what you think. Um, and thinking about in the beginning of that passage. It's even talking about just preparing our minds as we think about living in this world in a culture that is hostile. Um, and then it moved into what you want and a lot, uh, about orienting our own desires around Jesus and then lands with what you do and what comes out of that. So the what you think, what you want, and then what you do. Um, and that even section is just, you know, where there's a beautiful passage where it says, be holy as I am holy. So we're going to talk about all of that, but I always like to start with just kind of initial takeaway that we can hear from you. Something that stood out to you. Um, from this. Yeah. I really liked Joe's analogy of holiness is like wearing the right thing for the right weather. Because I think when people think about holiness, they tend to think of it as keeping the rules or something that's imposed on us instead of thinking about it as, uh, really becoming who God wanted us to be. Uh, but end, towards the end when he said, uh, that as long as he knows the weather report, the correct weather report, he can dress accordingly. And uh, it made me realize that, uh, humility is such a big part of holiness. Because the only hope I have of living the life I'm meant to live is to get the weather report from someone other than me. That tends to be the biggest problem in my life. If I think the weather outside is this according to myself, I'm gonna dress according to what I think is best. But if I start with God and asking, what does this look like? Uh, then I tend to end up in a good place. So realizing in some ways the biggest enemy of holiness in my life is me. And the biggest step towards holiness is the humility to admit that and to look to God for what I can't give myself. And I think even having the right understanding of what holiness is, I wrote this down. What Joe said, hard work of holiness is in your mind and heart, not in your conduct. Mhm. I think most other worldviews, the way it presents itself is a complete inversion of the way of Jesus. Right. That sort of says, hey, in some basic form, clean yourself up, do the right things in order to all of a sudden have this identity. Right. And only in the person of Christ, as he say, right abide me, I buy new and then fruit will be produced. It's the sense of, uh, placing and fixing your eyes on Christ in ordinary faithfulness every single day. And then in that way. Yeah. The production is what people are default, I think, to look to. Well, I've produced this, I did this, I'm a good person. Yeah. And not. It's kind of the upside down nature of the kingdom. Yeah, yeah. I think, um, similar, like holiness comes from the inside out. And I think the third point of the idea that the actions of holiness are actually the easiest part. Like if your mind is in the right place and your heart is in the right place, then holiness flows from that. And that really resonated with me because that means like the desire over desire kind of categories. I feel myself, I over desire certain things, I under desire things. And just like almost like a seesaw kind of like out of balance. And realizing holiness starts by addressing that right from the inside. And then o. Uh, that really stood out to me. Yeah. Well, let's take a look at a clip from Pastor Joe, uh, to continue just the conversation. The difference between a Christian and a non Christian is it's not that we want, uh, different things. I want the same thing that everybody else wants. I want to be happy, I want to be healthy, I want my kids to do well. I want to be successful. I want to be well thought of. I want to have friends. The difference for me is that if I lose any of those things, it won't completely wipe me out. If something happens to my marriage or my wife, I will be super sad. But I won't be destroyed because she's not the center. Jesus is the center. And that's what makes a Christian different than anyone else. So if I am going to be holy, then I have to fill my mind with who Jesus is. That will then help me determine what I want. And uh, what happens when Jesus is the center, what he says is then none of your desires will become out of whack. So your life will be much more balanced. It will be balanced the way it's intended to be balanced. Yeah, I mean that'I think one of Pastor Jo's favorite illustrations, probably one of mine too because of the great picture that it is about orienting everything in our worlds around Jesus. And yet at the same time I know thats easier said then done right. The living that out and what that looks like is something again. We can continue to unpack and you guys already have started to. But any other thoughts around even? You know, some people have bicycle wheels on the wall of their home. I mean I've seen it because this analogy resonates really. Uh, so uh, all I really want from my career is one analogy, one analogy that these hang on their walls. Maybe even in place of the bicycle wheel. Like to be something that would just be one bicycle. It would be a big bicycle. The pinat a few weeks ago, you know. Yeah's right. Well I think what I would say is uh. One of the things when I, every time I think this, when I hear Joe talk about the bicycle wheel is uh, it's always easy for me to see when other people have the wrong thing at the center. You see somebody who's pursuing work too much or the things their kids want too much or romantic relationship too much. And it seems so almost ridiculous when you watch it, if it's not your thing, they go, well, that's not going to make you happy. And that's notnna. But then never thinking that critically about the things that tend to gravitate because it's one of the key ideas of that I think, is that only Jesus is uh, substantive enough or thick enough to actually hold up in the middle of everything else in the end will kind of collapse under the weight of making life all about that. I love that when Joe sort of said, hey, if that thing was taken away. Right. Would you be utterly destroyed? And I love, I mean, the honesty. Say theres a lot of things that if it was taken away, I mean good things at the center, youd be heartbroken. Oh, yeah, right. But if Christ is at the center, its the only thing where you have solid foundation, a solid rock to be standing upon. Because I mean, again, rise up. This whole series is written to people in exile like, this is encouragement. Being holy is encouragement when life is probably not going to be easy. That. Right. Um, and just even the constant reminder of what is at the center of your heart, what is at the center of the way youre making decisions, theres stability for your life. But those around you, your family, huh. That comes from that. Yeah. We can, I mean, probably each of us could go around and we wont do this, but. And name people that we see living this out when the hardest thing in the world is happening to them, when their life is completely destroyed in one way or another. And you see Jesus remaining at the center, their hope steadfast on him, and if anything, their testimony in their example being one that is just encourages and changes and transforms people around them. So, yeah, because its easy to say, well, would I. Would I really be able to. Would Jesus really be what I hold onto if everything was taken away? I hope so. I hope so. I think part of the trick with that too is if you are tempted to put anything in the place of Jesus in the center of your wheel, and God loves you, he can't let you do that, which means he has to kind of put his finger on that thing in order to. Because you just. Jesus said, if you build on me, right, you're building on the rock, but if you build on anything else, you're building on sand. So God loves you too much to make your children ultimate. He loves you too much for you to make a career ultimate. Which means the only way really he can show you love is to press on that thing. And so in that way, it's much less painful for you to say, hey, my kids are in danger of being the center of my wheel. What does it look like to course correct than it would be to kind of create the environment where the Holy Spirit has to begin to unravel that, uh, lest you kind of live your whole life building around the wrong thing. Ye. And I think that's like a really important reframing of how we might view a difficult season, how we might reframe hardship, suffering some sort of loss of something, of seeing maybe God's at work in that season to establish Jesus at the center. Because if we carry on too much longer with kids, money, approval, performance, something else, um, we will lose a lot more in. Destroy your life in all sorts of other ways. Yes. Actually the worst thing that God could do is let you build your life on the wrong thing without shaking you at all. Because you would live and die alienated from him. Right. Separate from him. And perhaps one of the, I don't know, challenges or actions even out of this for us is to say, hey, one of the most sober minded things we can do is invite people we trust. Yeah. Cause I think to your point, it is, for whatever reason, uh, perhaps easier to see in someone else when something else other than Christ is at the center. I think even being sober minded, a good challenge even for me is to think, invite people who I know and trust and who know and know the Lord to say, hey, is there something out of whack? Is Christ at the center of my wheel or something else taking the place of that? Well, we could start with hockey, tennis, hypothetically. Hypothetically spe. Hothet. Hypothetically spe. Wow, Mike. Uh, that's it. This is an example of that happening now. Thanks, Mike. I was wondering why Mike asked to be on the podcast. Yeah, I knowok. It's a pastoral moment. It's a pastoral `` Director of Pastoral Care So never take a day off. No, that's really good. I mean, but it does. What if you're sitting here though, and you're going, well, I don't know what's battling for the center of my life other than Jesusus. It does take, uh, a humble heart. It takes humility and I don't know, uh, it's just, it doesn't. I think there's a lot of people that could be listening going, well, what does this mean for me? How do I actually work? And again, it's more about being than working. But how do I try and orient my life in such a way? I think the answer to that probably is in Joe's use of Jonathan Edwards in the want section. Because when he was talking about, hey, if you'll lie to make $20,000, then what you're saying is you want integrity, but you want money more. And what I would say is, when does Jesus tend to lose? Like, when do you tend to not just. There are some things that I do that are sinful, that even in the moment I know are wrong. Those are still bad. But then there are some times where I'm tempted to justify Like I can explain. No, no, no. I did this. And I think whatever's behind that tends to be the thing that is threatening at the center of my wheel. So I would encourage people to just go, when does Jesus tend to lose in my life? And whatever wins out is probably the thing that threatens his place. Yeah. And I think I would just add to that, like letting our emotions be kind of like indicators for us. Because I know in my life when I find myself responding kind of irrationally, anxious, stressed, um, there's something behind that and it's usually connected to something that I'm over desiring or underdesiring. And so it might just be a good week to just kind of pay attention to, hey, when am I most anxious? When am I most stressed? What makes me the most sad? Right. And those can be some indications of, hey, this is something that's maybe in the middle or moving. Moving its way towards, uh, the middle of your wheel. Yeah, yeah. No, I recently, I just that made me think because Ive actually recently been doing some soul searching, realizing that my own emotions have been different than they typically are and going wait a minute, what'behind this? What is driving this? What's causing me to respond this way? So that is good. While we don't want our feelings to govern everything we do, they can be really good indicators of sometimes when something's out of whack. So yeah, that's really good. Yeah. I think that's what really draws me to like the Gospels and looking at Jesus m this idea that he never overesired something, he never underesired something. So even looking like what does like someone who has a rightly ordered life look like? There's really only been one person who has a rightly ordered life and finding ways to see how he responded in different moments, interactions. That's holiness. Right. Looking at it_eah his life, his ministry. Yeah. And that's exactly the whole idea of preparing our minds. It is always, I don't know, I think it's always better to be preparing rather than reacting. Mhm. To things, to life. Right. Like there are difficult things that uh, are coming for all of us. And if we can find ourselves today in a posture, in a position where we're saying, okay, I wanna be more like Christ, I wanna be in his word daily. I wanna be in prayer consistently now. Right. To cultivate a life, to cultivate a stability that when things are difficult, come, uh, uh, you have Christ in the center of your life. Yeah. I think what's interesting about this is we're in a series called Rise up, uh, how to Live Life of Faith in an Antagonistic Culture. And it's amazing how internal Peter is in the beginning of. He's not talking about, hey, when you're dealing with the authorities, or hey, when you have a hard conversation at work. I mean, he starts with, the key to living in an antagonistic culture is don't have your desire out of whack. Right. Have Jesus at the center of your life. Live with hope. I'm preaching next week. We're going to look at what it means to love each other. I mean, what he's saying is that fundamentally in a hostile culture or in, uh, a helpful culture, the work begins inside your own heart. And I think that's such a challenge. I think we're so tempted to think the biggest threats to our family, to our lives, to our spiritual walk are outside of us. And of course it's because we don't want to admit the biggest threat is inside. But that's really what Joe, I think, did a good job, uh, of saying that, hey, holiness, the enemy to holiness is what I think, what I feel and then what I do. Which means I got to stop worrying so much about what's going on around me and start worrying about what's going on in me. Yeah. And I think especially in times of suffering, right. A week one is about, hey, you are being grieved, various trials. So their life is full of sadness, heartache, hardship. And maybe it's just my experience, but I feel like when I go through my hardest times, that's when I can be the most selfish. Right. Suffering has a way of like turning yourself inward. And I think that's why the, maybe the challenge to Rise up week two is don't let suffering do that. Right. Like ye in your hardship, also pursue holiness, which is really hard. I do love the point. Um, know the beginning of that passage where it is prepare your minds. And weve touched on it here. But I interact with a lot of people that just uh, that speak about their faith as just being a feeling. And uh, I dont know. I think this is a passage that encourages you to be in Gods word and to be engaging your mind in the things of God and not just in how you feel this day, that day, or the fact that you have faith and its just easy to believe in God because it will, you will be challenged. There will be trials that come and engaging your mind in God's word, understanding the things. Um, you know, Pastor Joe did a great look at even Just the apologetics and understanding about why we believe what we believe and how it stands up against every question. Um, and just preparing your mind, though, is a really important part. Please go. Yeah, it's just interesting how non Christians will de. Intellectualize the faith because they want to reject it. Right. It's dumb. Uh, Christians do that, I think, by moving to feelings. Because a God who's a God, uh, of feelings probably doesn't threaten your autonomy. I think that's the thing is when Peter says prepare your mind, when he's talking about wrestling with what God has said. The problem with the communicative God is that I have to wrestle with and reckon with the things that he s saying to me about money, about sexuality, about anger, about relationship. He's, uh, a God I can't control. And I think, uh, it's kind of like in my marriage. If all I needed in marriage, of all marriage was, was romantic feelings, it would be pretty easy. But when my wife's like, hey, that thing you said, I don't like that. Or that thing you want to do this weekend, I don't want to do that. Well, now I have to wrestle and reckon with this person. I can't control who has thoughts and opinions. But the flip side of that is a God who's only a God of feelings. Like God, I think you never really feel close to. Right. Because there's no intimacy, there's no actual engagement. So I think Peter, in some ways, is calling us to a real vibrant relationship with a God. To use the words of C.S. lewis from Cronles Ofardia. Ah, you know, he isn't safe. He challenges us. He's good, he's loving, but he isn't safe. And that means actually inviting God's voice through the scriptures into the way I live. Yeah. I really appreciated how Joe really held both of these realities, though, that the Christian faith is one of the most rational, beautiful way to see the world. Right. There's evidence abounding that that is true. Yet also there's something internally in our soul that happens because Christianity is not a philosophical moral law that we follow. And I think that's the encouragement I'd give. I think sometimes we can err on the side of some of us, see Christianity as rules to follow. Right. And ignore the living reality that God's spirit, the living hope we talked about last week, uh, is something we possess vibrantly within us. But then some of us, to your point, really care a lot about the spiritual side and that don't care as much about the objective truth of Christianity. And both are kind of the, uh, theologians talk about the good, the true and the beautiful. That's the Christian life. I really resonated just how Joe held both of those. Well, yeah, that's great. So we like to kind of wrap up every week by extending and thinking through any challenge or encouragement as we head into this week. The one thing I was going to point out, and then I'll open it up to see, uh, if you guys have anything. But each week through the series, we're getting one of these. And at the bottom of it, it's a place to take notes. But also, there is just kind of a livid out challenge. And so it's because we don't believe the sermon ends when it ends. And that's why we do this podcast. But that's why we want you to think about also how we can live out what has been taught this week, what God is challenging us with, what we can do. So one, um, thing that Pastor Joe encouraged us with was even just to be reading in 1 Peter, chapter 1, verses 3 through 9, um, which I think is just such a passage of encouragement and, um, speaks to the hope, of course, that we have in Christ. And so maybe that's something for you to do if, if that's a reminder for you, but other challenges or anything else that you would extend to anybody listening today. Yeah, I think I would just go back to where we began on. I think the biggest spiritual danger in your life is not the thing you know is bad, it's the thing you think is good that you're tempted to make ultimate. And I think just naming that, like, feeling again, remembering the gospel, is that you're loved, you're accepted on the basis of Christ, which means you can say out loud, yeah, uh, there are a lot of days where I want career success more than I want God. There are a lot of days that I want and just kind of naming that and identifying it so that you can move away from it. And I just wonder how many Christians have even said out loud, yeah, this is the good thing. Um, that is, I'm tempted to turn into God, and I need to make sure I don't do that. And then, of course, not just naming it, but actually sharing it with people you're in relationship with so that they can help you move more towards God and away from that thing. Yeah, I think just building off that, you know, like, I was thinking about the verse in Psalm 51. It talks about, uh, the sacrifices of God or a broken spirit a broken and contrite heart. And it's like what he's saying is, hey, the sacrifices God wants this week are, hey, bring your epipemus, right? Bring your overd desires, bring your underdesires. Building off what you just said of like, hey, this is what I really desire. I think it's too much. This is what I desire and it's too little. Right? Um, God will meet you with grace in that. God will ll meet you with hope. I was just talking and praying with someone after the service who feels, uh, a lot of disappointment after how this weekend has gone and just realizing in that moment, hey, we are his children who loves us, he welcomes us. And that's the first step, I think, towards, uh, reordering our hearts, is bringing them to him. That's great. Well, thank you guys so much for joining me today. Uh, it's been a great discussion and really looking forward to next week. Thanks so much for tuning in to be on the message. Before you go, just make sure to subscribe so you don't miss out on any content in the future. And also we have content for you all week long on our CCC app, YouTube channel, or even on our website so that you can grow where you are all week long. Share that with friends and with family. Until next time. We'll see you soon.