Who's Speaking Up for the Kids? with Kelli McGonagle

We are joined by Kelli McGonagle, Attorney at New Direction Family Law. Kelli discusses juggling work, 4 kids and options for parents who want their child to have a voice in court.

Show Notes

In this episode

• Kelli declared at eight years old that she wanted to be an attorney.  Her caring and compassionate nature, and her passion for advocating for children, led her to the practice of family law. 
• Kelli seeks to help families through some of the most difficult times in their lives while keeping the best interest of the children and her clients at the forefront when advocating on their behalf. 
• Kelli is originally from South Carolina but enjoyed her undergrad years in the mountains of North Carolina at Western Carolina University where she majored in Business Law.  After graduation, Kelli headed west to the University of Tulsa College of Law where she worked on her first family law cases as a student with the Boesche Legal Clinic, and later as a Licensed Legal Intern at a family law firm.  Kelli was admitted to practice in Florida and began her legal career with Children’s Legal Services of the Florida Department of Children and Families, advocating for abused and neglected children.  Kelli and her family relocated back to North Carolina in 2009 and refocused her practice on serving families here in the triangle area.
• When not assisting clients, Kelli serves as a volunteer Guardian ad Litem with District 11, being the voice of children who are abused, neglected, or dependent.  As a board member of the Cleveland Area Backpack Buddies, she is privileged to work with an outstanding group of volunteers and area elementary schools to alleviate the needs of food-insecure children and families in her community.  At the heart of all Kelli does, are her four daughters.  She and her husband enjoy cheering them on in all that they do and spending time together as a family.
• We discuss what to expect when you first reach out to a lawyer. It's important to remember that you can turn back, it doesn't mean you have to get separated or divorced but you can get all the info you need to make an informed decision.
• Often times people see us after getting separated and don't have the benefit of the advice we could have offered before taking some actions.
• We discuss the importance of not just googling for information or relying on what a friend learned from their divorce because the information may get lost in translation or not be applicable to your case.    
  
  

Help your friends who may be going through a divorce go from victim to victorious and bitter to better.

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What is Ex-it Strategy?

Your no bullsh$t guide to divorce with experienced attorneys from New Direction Family Law and guests and professionals who have been there. Unfiltered discussions to help you move from victim to victorious and from bitter to better.

Hello and welcome to the exit strategy podcast, exit strategy podcasts. The name of this podcast just slipped my mind. I am Sarah Henke. I'm one of the attorneys and partners at new direction, family law. We have Jen Bordeaux here, luckily to help me with the name of the podcast and not with us Elizabeth Stephenson, who's usually here.

So you'll miss her voice, but luckily we have an amazing guest attorney Kelly with an I McGonigal from a new direction, family law. So we're excited to have her here so you can get to know. Say hello, Kelly. Hello. Thanks for having me. We're excited to have you, tell us a little bit about yourself, just, your home life, your attorney life and how you got started. So I'm

originally from South Carolina and I went to college at Western Carolina university in the mountains of north Caroline.

I studied business administration and law. And from there, I went to law school at the university of Tulsa and Oklahoma, and that would be where I met my husband, Matt. And he was in law school as well. We ended up moving from Oklahoma to. And he did a master's in tax law, which is really boring and why he's not on a podcast.

And I began working for the department of children and families in Florida while he was finishing school. And we ultimately moved to west Palm beach where I moved with that same government agency and was practicing attorney down there with them. Before we started having kids and moved back to North Carolina because I missed my seasons.

Yeah, it's been a little bit of everywhere, but we've been in North Carolina and gosh, almost 14 years.

Four lovely kids at home.

I do. I have four daughters. My oldest daughter, Madeline, I'm just getting ready to go to high school.

It just seems impossible. How are you feeling about that mom? I'm doing okay. We're wrapping up this little bittersweet chapter, so I'm hanging in there from week to week. And then I have triplet daughters who are almost 11 and they keep me on my.

I'm

sure. Yes. And then we have our clients who keep us on our toes to obviously something great about you, Kelly is that you understand parenting and what all it takes and how probably, disruption and your relationship can really stress you out as a parent.

I I can't even imagine what some of our clients go to. So knowing how hard it can be in such a good supportive marriage and you take that away and it can be really tough for me.

Yes, I'm very thankful. My husband and I, we kind of tag team in this and most of the time we're on the same page.

A lot of times I'll look at him and tell him to get on my page. So we're on the same page. Cause I think you do need a United front when it comes to parenting. So don't let them see. You know that you're not both, together and a decision.

Yeah. So also if you're trying to co-parent and you're separated, do your best to at least seem like you're on the same page in front of the kids and in front of the judge, maybe too.

Cause the judges don't like it. If you're not working together, fake it till you make it until you make it. And I know you did some previous work and Johnson county as guardian ad litem. You tell us some about your experience doing that. So

when I worked in Florida, I worked for the department of children and families, which is like the department of social services here.

But my role was as an attorney representing the state for children who were abused and neglected by their. So when I moved here I was licensed in Florida, so I had to, backtrack and do the bar and everything like that again here. I took my time and tried to figure out exactly, what I wanted to do while I was parenting for kids.

And I volunteered for the guardian ad litem program in Johnston county, district 11. And. That is just a court appointed community volunteer. We have a training program that we give through and we, learn how to be an advocate for children who don't have a voice. So in that instance, it's for children who are.

Are adjudicated neglected or dependent. So typically, abuse as a factor and potentially they're taken away from their parents and placed with a family member or in foster care. So again, it's just a volunteer. Position you're assigned to a case and your job is just to advocate on behalf of that child.

So you're an independent investigator. Our supervisor liked to call us an information gather. And so I'm talking to all the parties involved from school counselors and teachers to. Therapists to the parents, to caregivers and just reporting back to the court to say, Hey, this is what's really going on with this child's life to really paint a picture of who that child is and to advocate for what's best for them.

Typically, I, I always try to report the child's wishes. Even when they're young but you still have to give that independent. This is what I think is best as an adult in the situation,

right. Recommendation. And it's really valuable for the court to have that because they're getting attorneys who are advocating for their client.

Who's there for the child who is this going to be the unbiased third party coming in and actually spending time with the child and learning their life because the judge doesn't get to do that. Exactly.

Yeah. And I think that was one of the most rewarding, but also challenging things that I've done throughout my.

Adult life because you do become attached to those kids because you've got that personal connection that I didn't necessarily have as a practicing attorney in Florida because I was in court and it was the paperwork side of things. And so to see that other side, I think was really beneficial for me to grow in my career in what I do.

Yeah. And the abuse, neglect dependency cases are really tough. That's an area that we as private attorneys don't want. Or foot into and I've done private TPRS. A termination of parental rights. So it's a parent, that's asking the court to terminate someone else's parental, right? Where a lot of times abuse, neglect, independency, it's DSS coming in and saying, there's really no one looking out for this kid.

And the agency has to step in and you can, you see a lot of horrible stories and a lot of sad cases for these kids.

You do. And I think one of the most rewarding parts is as that child's advocate, you're given the opportunity to see it through, to the end and to see a good outcome. Especially for one of my cases I did have, that child was adopted and is thriving.

And so to get both sides of it I think it's really been neat. Yeah.

And private cases. We have guardian ad litems as well. You can get one appointed and many respects. Me and adults can have them if they're not able to. Competent to represent themselves, or even if their attorney is concerned that they're not competent to aid in their legal representation.

And then for the kids, it really is to say, okay, judge, we have maybe extreme parents who. Are, saying totally different things. And this is obviously a really bad situation for the kids. The parents are this extreme or can't co-parent. So the judge might appoint a guardian ad litem to do this investigation and represent the child, not necessarily their wishes, but to, take us another, look at this and make a report to the judge.

Yeah,

I think it's a great tool. Even in private matters very beneficial for them to take that independent look to you, especially if the child is old enough to have a conversation with them and really see, what are the issues and how can we make this better? And let the judge know what's good for them

in wake county.

We have a new program like this it's a few years now, but I'm pretty sure it's just in wake county. Maybe it's in a couple of other counties now that child's advocate. And their role is to actually advocate for the child's wishes. This is what the kid wants. Good wants to live with mom. And then the court still needs to take that with a grain of salt, but it is different from the guardian ad litem.

He really does this full investigation. It doesn't necessarily just say what the kid wants and exactly, they give a full picture, which I think is much better. We, I talked to other attorneys in wake county and everyone has their opinions on the child advocate program where maybe it's good in thought maybe not great in practice and you get different attorneys.

Come in there and how much are they really supposed to be involved? Are they supposed to like, just completely steamroll this process or just stand in the back and just say I talked to the kid and this is what the kid said, what they want and let the judge, take that for what it is.

Yeah. And

I think that's the important part is for the judge to differentiate between. The child's advocate, which is just that they're advocating for what the child wants and what the child wants is important to consider. . But I think that there are times when they're not able to, if their child, they're not able to make certain decisions with regards to, am I going to live with mom or am I going to live with dad?

And what does that look. A guardian ad litem is going to do an infinite, independent investigation on their own. And so they're going to include the child's wishes, but they're also going to talk to other people involved in that child's life to help get a full picture of what would really be beneficial for

that child.

Cause you think about. What, if we let them make their own decisions, are they going to go to school every day? Are they going to eat their vegetables? Are they going to do their mind work? Yeah. So it's are we going to let them pick which parent? I wonder if there's one parent who lets them do whatever they want and there's no bedtime, like exactly that kid might want to choose that parent.

And there might be a parent who is manipulating the child and telling them how they should feel and what they should want. And if you say this, then you'll get that. And so we have to be cautious about those situations because we do see. Yes,

absolutely. And I think you're exactly right. I think that.

Understanding what the child's wishes are and why is probably important so that if you're looking at two very different households, is that a motivating factor for that child?

So what's your, what's been your favorite part about practicing the full-scale private family law? Since you've come to join a new direction, family law how long has it been.

September will be two years that I will then with new direction. That's two years of your life.

Yeah, it feels longer.

I know it, it does in a good way. Yes. In a good way. There, there are things about private practice that, that differ from my previous job that, I've had to learn and adjust to It's been a lot of fun.

It's been really good working with the team at new direction. I can't say that often enough. Everybody asks me what I love most about my job and it's the people, I can walk down to your office and bounce an idea off of you with something that facing in one of my cases, Hey Sarah, how would you handle this?

So I've really enjoyed working with you all and expanding my knowledge. And also coming to some good resolutions for a lot of families so far, which is always there. There are tough days, we have tough days, but at the end, when everybody gets to a good place on the other side, that's always very rewarding.

Yeah. That's the best. And to see them grow through the process and close out the case and hopefully carry on in a positive direction. Absolutely. This is

actually a kind of let's look, this can be to the whole table, Joe, you included over there. We can you were talking about how there are some tough days with, clients or just proceedings and, but getting to that other side to their new direction in life.

So we also have to take care of ourselves and make sure that we do what we can to be in good moods and all that kind of stuff. So what do you keep on your desk or workspace area that boosts your mood?

I support

that. Gosh, I don't know. I think coffee probably might be my go-to as well too. Yeah. Music. I think there's two things I'm walking down to Stephanie's office. She's always got essential oils going. Yeah, that's always very calming.

I was going to say, I don't really have much personal stuff on my desk, but Stephanie are apparently Kelly and I have the same paralegal, Stephanie.

She is great. She's given me a bad-ass button and he pressed the button and it says you're a bad-ass or like a phrase like that. So that's fun. And then a cute little crochet. No, that's not what that's called. Cross stitch crawl across edge, different things. I'm obviously not crafty cross stitch of a little Fox and it's for Fox sake, it's cute.

Yeah.

Speaking of Stephanie and she's like the plant mom of the office, she, we moved into a new space about a month ago. I can't believe it's already been a month. And we all have. Windows and can put plants. And so she helped bring a couple of mine back to life, which yeah. So shout out,

Stephanie.

Yeah. I'll be asked to have a little more calm environment there. Yeah, absolutely. I,

for me, I have the mood. Yeah. That's a little thing on my desk that I think I love having people come in and I think other people just coming into my office is fun to,

Yeah. I come into your mood flipper. Yeah, I did that the other day.

Can't

remember what I chose there that day. Yeah. We all have slack on our desktops, on the computer, on our desktop. We don't have desktop computers. God, that sounds so old. That's not what I meant on the computer screen, but just helpful. Cause we do such serious work and how such stressful. Days doing what we do to be able to joke around with our coworkers.

And Kelly said, we have a great team and that's really helpful to keep your mental health, strong and through all this. Absolutely. Yeah. It helps us stay

strong for our clients. Cause that's what we're here to do. Stay strong for them so they can stay strong for their families. That's awesome.

What you said about the desktop computer though? Actually, I was between two questions. So I'm just gonna throw this one out there too. What antiquated invention do you still use?

Not a desktop computer. I don't use that.

No, I don't use a desktop either. I'm sure I have one probably being the eldest

in the room or planner.

I try every year to use it. And by March it's empty and dead. Same. Okay.

Yep. I've failed miserably at that, like two years in a row. Tried really hard, but my

phone is just always with, and the stickers. I want to use the stickers in the planner, but it's just too much. I can't. Yeah, they're pretty. Yeah,

I don't know.

Joe is, we're sitting here surrounded by all of your technology. Do you have any antiquated things that you still use?

Yeah, I guess I prefer hand tools when I do like woodwork and stuff. I inherited a bunch of old tools from my grandpa. That's funner to do it by hand.

Plug it in

to say what's the alternative?

The alternative is probably me injuring myself. I'm drawn to this. I didn't realize that hand tools and power tools were competing. Tool factions. Yeah. There's like the hipster way of doing woodwork is all hand tools. . Okay.

I think probably just in our office in general, sticky notes those things aren't going anywhere.

No statements are good. Sticky notes and lists.

Yeah. I typically have a list nearby of my daily to do's got to get done. What's top priority. Yeah, absolutely. Calculator.

Yes. Like a real one.

absolutely the bigger the buttons. The better. Yes,

we do have some Alexa's around the office though, that team members will use to remind themselves. So it's really funny to. Whenever Alexa goes off to fizzy, I hears all hers all the time of fizzy. This is your reminder to, and it just goes on and on.

That's not antiquated, but yeah. So it's the notes and Alexis, it's a good blend.

Yeah. It keeps us. Yeah, for sure.

What about a life hack Kelly? What's your bet. We actually asked you this for a team spotlight last month, but you're as a mom of four, including free triplets and all girls and a husband.

And you just got a new dog as well. So you guys are officially a family of eight, two dogs

lost it. And I finally broke that down. So we did, we got a puppy this weekend. My, my life hack. I shared online for anyone who missed it was my pizza. Having three itty bitty kids at the St. Madeline was three when I had them.

So just little kids and cutting stuff up. It was, it takes forever and I'm, I was very paranoid about somebody choking. So I just carried a pizza cutter with me everywhere I went and it cuts everything from pancakes to chicken nuggets, to actual pizza. So stock up on a pizza cutter scenario.

It can also cut a bit.

Should they come across the girl?

I just can't get that one in the courthouse. So no, I have to leave that at the office, but yeah. Yeah. The courthouse is tricky. I used to carry like the wine cork opener and they'd always get it. I think they like go to places and they have the cheap wine openers and the ones you take apart and put back together.

They would always take it and I'd be like, oh, I forgot that was in there. And you don't get it back and you're done and you never give it back. What did they do with all these things? I don't know what, they probably just have a whole bowl, my wine core go. And then Chris, one time I accidentally took like a bottle of liquor and they're like you can leave it here.

Or you can take it back to your car. He's yeah, I'm going to take that to my car.

Absolutely. Oh, was an easy ask.

Yeah. Oh,

absolutely. Kelly, what would you for someone that we're in and Sarah too? For someone who is, reaching out to. An attorney period. It can be very overwhelming and stressful and just a daunting task to might be the first time they're calling to say, Hey, this is what I'm going through.

It makes it very real. In some ways makes you feel like you can't turn back, which isn't necessarily the case. But so if somebody is reaching out with what advice would you give them or words of encouragement if they're reaching out to you and setting a consultation with.

W I think just what you said, they can turn back.

So getting advice, talking to someone in our office that can advise you on your legal rights so that what steps to take next, I think is so valuable. And I think that, you don't have to take it as, okay. This is the final step. It doesn't have to be that, it's a good time to get information, know your rights, know what your next steps need to be, and to start planning for that if necessary.

in remember where people too, I think people sometimes come in, and they're very nervous or anxious and I'm a mom. I understand, I'm in a relationship, it's something that I think. For them to understand that we're all people too, and we've been there sometimes, and we try to understand where they are and to help them and just to take a deep breath.

And to be honest with us about everything,

I think that's the hardest part. It's

very hard to do my job. If you're not honest with me. About what's going on. I can't tell anybody. So your secrets are safe.

Very true. Very true. I I can't imagine going to an attorney because you have this thought of what an attorney is and divulging in your personal issues of your relationship.

That's just a different dynamic than going to someone and saying, I need a will, or I need a business plan put together. So it is different and probably, really stressful for people. Tell us everything you think we need to know then from what you tell us, we'll ask you more questions.

Cause we know what to look for and can pick your brain. And information is power. So yeah, if you're not ready to leave, at least you'll have more strength after the phone call or the office meeting and knowing what it looks like on the other side. And you can decide for yourself, is that something that I want to do now?

Do I need to get some more. Things in place, put some more pieces together before I make that exit. And what can I do to make sure that it goes as easy as possible when I do decide to separate, but a lot of times people come, they've already separated and they've made decisions and done things. Maybe we wouldn't recommend them doing so.

Absolutely you're listening come to us. As soon as you, you have the thought to speak to an attorney or to have the thought to separate because things can be decided poorly and. You aren't going to know everything on your own and you can't just Google it. You just can't

Google J

D

is not a thing.

No, every situation is different. You, if you talk to a friend that's gone through a divorce and they regurgitate maybe what their attorney told them. It's not going to be exactly what their attorney told them. First of all, cause it's like that telephone game. They're not going to understand like the legalees and the ins and outs of everything.

And second, they barely have a completely different situation than you. So you have to be really clear.

Yeah, I think you have a good point too, as don't feel like you have to come in with every single piece of information, because we're going to ask you those questions and we're going to trigger those things.

I think sometimes a fond potential clients are overwhelmed. Have I told you everything I need to tell you w what else do you need? And just remembering that we're gonna, we're gonna spark some of that for you, so you don't have to feel so weighed down by having all of

that good point.

Yes.

And I think, one of our first podcast episodes that we ever did was like, how do you know when to go thing? And, we do have folks that come in that have not separated yet, and you guys are not there to tell them. You need to leave. If safety concerns are an issue, obviously, please revert to the previous two episodes that we just talked about that we just had.

But, again, that's that whole feel like there's no turning back kind of situation. And when we hand out referrals for, recommendations for marriage counselors or discernment counseling that decision is solely. Yours as the individual, we're there to provide you with the tools in your tool bag to help make the best decision for you

and your family.

Yeah. And so people do come in and treat us like counselors, mental health counselors, and we are not that. And I'll be pretty honest with them about it. And I'm like, you have a lot of feelings and that's totally understandable. And then I recommend you go talk to this person or your mental health counselor about that.

But I do see that a lot and I can understand. That happening. Cause maybe we're the first person they are talking to about their relationship and wanting a divorce. And it probably is just like word vomit, all these feelings. And I can completely understand that. I think sometimes

it's hard to separate the two and we're more the business side of it and that's more the touchy.

I'm sorry. I, when you're in it, it's all the same. It's just waves of it all. So it's understandable that might happen. And that's why we do follow-up consultations too. Cause maybe the first hour was spent with, tears and feelings and maybe what we said to you and that consultation didn't really sink in about the other parts of it, alimony and child custody.

So if you didn't grasp it, you can always have another phone call or whatever and go over it again. Yeah. It's not easy, not, but we're happy to have Kelly with us. She is amazing

to me.

Yes. Happy to have her in the office. Let's see her smiling face. So you don't get. On the podcast, but no,

I'm smiling and I'm happy to be here.

And I appreciate the invite

and we'll definitely have her back for some more fun topics in the future. And since it's your first time on the podcast, why don't you send us off? Okay.

It probably has a line, like when I came to her to ask her if she would be willing to be on today and she was like, I just do what I'm told Jen.

Sure. Yeah,

I do. I eat you come, you guys come to me and you asked me, do you think so? Yep. Okay.

No problem. Got it for Kelly. I think I

remember the tagline. Is that before asking me all right. I got it.

Ain't that? Some shit nailed

it.