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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
[Music]
hello and welcome to the moonshots
podcast
it is a super-duper episode 72 I'm your
co-host my persons and as always I'm
joined by Mark Pierson Freeland on what
is a sunny and bright Sydney morning
good morning mark
good morning mr. Mike it is a beautiful
or Tumnus Sydney morning isn't it what a
blue sky it's wonderful it's almost like
the gods are saying gentlemen it's time
for a new series a new innovator a new
leader from whom we can learn mark where
are we going today we it is a good one
I'm excited by this especially now that
I've had a little bit of time at home to
catch up on some content it is none
other than mr. Bob Iger Robert Iger
executive chairman and CEO of the Walt
Disney Company oh my gosh can you
imagine being the CEO of Disney like the
responsibility that comes with that and
he has done it for 15 years and Mark for
the 30 years before that where did he
work
Disney exactly he's just one of the most
kind of ingrained individuals I suppose
at the business you know he lives and
breathes it he is one of the characters
basically and I think it's really nice
to start our media innovation series
with someone like Bob because you know
right now we're watching and consuming
more media than ever I mean it's pretty
spectacular the boom that we're seeing
for not only for Disney but also for
Netflix and others but also because I
think Bob is a classic man a classical
leader he would make Peter Drucker
Michael Porter absolutely proud and I
think the fact that in this day and age
how many people do we get to learn from
who have
essentially worked at one company their
entire 45 year career that doesn't
happen very often these days you're
totally right
I mean not only on the consumption of
content and so on at home you're quite
right we've all really really gone deep
into the you know the depths and
catalogues of Netflix Disney Plus and so
on but Bob Iger is just one of those
guys that he's done at the time he knows
this brand so so well you know he is
part of the furniture in the best sort
of way and it's nice to you know go
through Bob's career his book I mean
obviously there's a plethora of audio
clips and podcast shows that he's done
and it's just nice hearing him tell his
side of the story you know like you say
five or six minutes I love that and you
know what's not to be forgotten okay
it's not just he's tenure that makes him
special but we're talking about since he
took over what was a struggling Disney
at the time he has acquired Marvel
Lucasfilm hello brackets Star Wars 20th
Century Fox and the big one let's not
forget he could acquire Pixar and to
think that if Steve Jobs was prepared to
let Disney acquire Pixar can you imagine
what that says about what Steve Jobs
thought of Bob Iger I mean this Disney
under his tenure has become epic it has
become vibrant and thriving and we've
got someone who is at the steering wheel
for 15 years and we can learn from Bob
Iger how he built a great Disney how he
lead 'add how he was the best version of
himself I mean this is a great privilege
someone who has accomplished so much and
we can decode it and learn from them I
mean I'm pretty fired up my world me too
I'm totally fired up you know exactly
like you say there's so much to learn
from him with regards to becoming your
best version I think that's a great
terminology because I think Bob is his
best version he has Darden
so much incredible work in the
acquisitions of these mega mega
properties of Pixar Marvel Lucas films
in 20th Century Fox and it's been great
fun you know diving into his career and
what makes Bob Bob and there's so many
little tips and lessons that we can take
away from that and inspire us to do it
in our own careers yes so we've got like
an action-packed show coming up we're
gonna have a look at what it really
takes to be a leader and we're gonna get
some really new takes we're gonna hear
some thoughts from Bob Iger of Disney
we've not heard from other leaders and
innovators and we're also gain against
some really smart habits and rituals
that we can all do in our jobs so
there's a ton to learn from him and some
really powerful truths and values that
he holds to be true and I think that
this is a really nice step change from
the fabulous women and innovation series
which was very much an uplifting and
inspirational set of women now I think
we're going to move into some different
thoughts very much
some classical leadership and management
skills some great habits to have and
some real truths about staying the
course and working to the very best of
your ability so what an action-packed
show but before we get started on our
first clip mark if anyone wants to get
show notes here the back catalog of
shows where does everyone go there's a
great destination and it is soon gonna
be as big as Disney plus I know it
it is moonshots dot IO we work very hard
at keeping the site on today with all of
our latest shows and we're going through
the back catalogue adding transcriptions
to all the shows as well and you've got
show notes up there you've got some
links to additional sources so please go
and check it out let us know what you
think drop us an email and just interact
you know what we put a lot of love into
our into our little property and it's
always nice to hear from our our fans
when people get in touch absolutely and
don't forget if you are listening and
you've got your mobile device in your
hand jump into your
Castille give us a rating give us a
review I think we're almost at a hundred
now across all platforms so a big thank
you to everyone for showing the love
that's exactly how we can spread our
story of learning and innovation to more
and more people so we're really grateful
for that but I feel it is time to get
the very wisdom of Bob Iger and to set
it all up we're actually going to look
at how Bob really looked around him and
really observed and learnt he's a great
disciple of listen and learn and we're
gonna have a listen to Bob talking about
how he gathered wisdom through all his
adventures so to open it up let's have a
listen to Bob Iger talking about
gathering wisdom there's there's so many
layers to you that I didn't know about
nor see but you had 20 different jobs at
the company and like 14 bosses about
that yeah a good around along with your
least favorite
you know I learned from all of them I'm
really lucky actually as I look back and
I think one of the reasons I'm where I
am as I had bosses that were not only
very successful in their own right but
they they all taught me something they
either purposely or just by watching
them and that great mentors and you know
I they all are responsible for the
achievements that I've that I've made
but a lot of great wisdom here is traded
at the urinals in in the bathroom you
glean some great wisdom as well you know
this fun fact well I I thought the
lequip that he came back with was very
quick yes I work for a man named Roone
Arledge who was renowned in ABC Sports
and then ABC News and we were standing
next to one another but I was standing
next to him in the men's room for those
of you may not have experienced that you
don't know whether to talk or not I'm
staying next to my boss who I did not
get a chance to speak with very much and
he asked how's it going and I said some
days I have trouble keeping my head
above water
and he responded like this get a longer
snorkel
[Music]
yeah there's so many ways to go here he
was merely saying hey do you think it's
tough right toughen up more that's
actually great advice because nobody you
know at that level nobody's gonna feel
sorry for whatever your daily trials and
tribute truck tribulations are right
that early yeah mm-hmm okay it's a
little bit of an unusual clip it's a
nice honest revealing story
I think what's fun about this and what
we can take away from it is Bob's
admission that he's 14 bosses in those
20 jobs every mentor whether they
intentionally go out to teach a lesson
or whether it's just something that you
listen in and observe and absorb they're
responsible for your success so you're a
part of everything that kind of comes
before you and what's nice about this
and something that I think I'm gonna
take away from this clip is how can I
help those around me how can i mentor
those to help others achieve their very
best you know for Bob this interaction
even though it might be you know a
little bit rare for him and his boss to
rub shoulders so to speak you know it's
actually a really good little valuable
little tip you know admittedly it's a
little bit hard this longer snorkle
tough it up
but actually it's a bit of advice it's
nice it is and what I really took out of
this is not everyone is going to sit
down and walk you through things explain
things and teach you the lessons so you
have to be prepared to take learning
however it may come and just because
someone doesn't spend much time with you
or give you deliberate instruction
doesn't mean you can't learn from them
and I really like this because sometimes
we can get a little bummed out when our
boss or our peers don't take the time to
share teach and learn together but I
think what Bob's really teaching us is
he was prepared to learn
matter how it came to him and I think
what's powerful about that is he didn't
chin out and say well he never spends
any time with me so I'm not gonna pay
any attention to him rather he just took
learnings in whatever shape they came
and I've learned that very resourceful
and quite resilient because I think
sometimes we're a bit spoiled and we
want it all served up on a plate but he
was prepared to work hard for even small
learnings like that wasn't he that's
actually a great observation bob could
have been telling this story from a i'll
he never spoke to me the only time he
gave me advice was in the urinal but
actually he didn't what he's saying is
exactly as you say it comes in many many
different forms sometimes small
sometimes big sometimes deliberate
sometimes from observation and their
opportunities all around us to learn
from others as well as situations
particularly when it's not presented in
a form that's really packaged for us I
think work a bit harder on our learnings
even if it's maybe even tough to hear or
unusual to hear if you work through it
you know you can take a little bit of
wisdom from every moment but I think
that what Bob's really setting up for us
is already we're starting to see the
mindset of a leader someone who's going
to take ownership someone's going to be
proactive and we've got a great
collection of values that he talks about
that were essential not only to his
success for Disney success and he sets
us up now we've got a bunch of really
great clips coming but he really starts
to get into some of the values that he
holds true and I think the best place to
start is with kind of an unusually it's
almost an obvious value something that's
perhaps said a lot but not often done
and this is talking about how we
perceive others regardless of who they
are and having a starting point of
decency so let's have a listen now to
Bob Iger talking about respect right Bob
first of all play the open hand I love
this book and I loved it because I love
business but I also love decency and
respect and throughout those two themes
do dominate the people show respect and
decent are winners in this book well
thank you first of all thank you for
reading the book and thanking thank you
for pointing that out yes I think
treating people with respect and being
decent goes a long way in terms of a
person's success in terms of a company's
success companies that value their
people that respect their people that
are decent they're typically successful
companies you seem to treat everybody
the same I'm not kidding the employees
are treated the same way to Steve Jobs
is treated the same way as your as Roone
are the great Roone Arledge it just
seems to be a theme of how you treat
people
look I started out at the very bottom an
entry-level position $150 a week
employee worked my way up over all these
years now was a company 45 years so you
have the opportunity to run this great
company I still remind myself of who I
was when I started and you know I try
not to lose sight of the fact that while
my title has changed and I haven't
really changed that much as a person so
I I feel it's important to have empathy
and to relate to other people who were
in similar positions that I was in along
the way great leadership tip then you
know no matter what direction and things
that bob has been up to you know he
started as $150 a week employee and you
know now he's a significant powerhouse
in the industry and in the global CEO
sector don't lose sight of who you are I
think that's a gray line and it's
something that you probably wouldn't
always hear from the CEOs you know these
people who are running these big big
brands
it's an emotional tip as well as the
business well it's so often that we have
this sort of vision of the
all-conquering CEO this epic figure of
leadership and accomplishment and you
know ego can very quickly get out of
hand there but let's turn this as a
little exercise onto our salesmen who
can't argue with the idea of be a decent
person respect the people no matter who
they are around you but
so we like this but how do we do it like
how do you try and keep yourself
accountable to a value like this do you
have any little tricks or habits that
you do just to keep yourself humble oh
yeah keep humble okay I'll take you on a
little trip down memory lane for a
second I remember when I was growing up
my parents always suggested that you
should treat others how you want to be
treated and I think there's a good
similarity here with what Bob's telling
us you know everybody's equal treat
others as equals if you show decency and
respect that goes a long way don't lose
sight of who you are I feel as though
for me my own you know direction of
treating others how I myself would like
to be treated
here's a nice reminder you know if
you're gonna get sharp with someone or
if you're gonna give feedback to a
colleague or an employee or a friend
even you've got a again take a moment to
I guess breathe and think okay well how
would I like to receive it what be the
proactive way for me if somebody was
telling me this how would I best take a
learning from it yes to take that and
build on it I always in those moments
try and imagine myself as I was their
business agent or their manager to use a
sports and entertainment analogy and
when you do that like those people have
one job and that is to make it their
athlete or their star as good as they
can be so it becomes like a question of
okay perhaps they did something that
they could have done better how can I
work with this person with respect for
them like we're sort of business
partners like I'm their agent I'm their
mentor and the reason that this is very
powerful because as soon as you take on
I'm their coach as a mindset is it get
you a long way away from just getting
into let's say someone gives you a
really poor communication poor feedback
and maybe makes it personal and you want
to like fire back with a personal retort
to them and so to get into this
kind of hand-to-hand combat if you say
no I'm the coach that's a great device
to stop yourself from getting in the
trenches and duking it out but rather be
decent and be respectful hmm I think
that's something I try and remind myself
of when I'm working with peers
colleagues or clients is always like
okay if I was this person's coach what
would I say what would I do to help and
support them to be the best version of
themselves now I don't always get it
right but I guess the idea that I'm
sharing here is it's a very good frame
to start with so that you don't go down
the track of hey you didn't do what you
said you'd do hey you're underperforming
and getting into things like blame and
accusation but rather like moving away
into a more positive construe well
leaders lead don't they the best leaders
try to do exactly as you're saying they
try to make their peers and colleagues
the best versions of themselves and it's
kind of like I guess tending a garden
you know the more effort and patience
you put into it the more you get out of
it
as a strange analogy and that's the same
with people you know if you show them
this decency and respect the Bob's you
know suggesting that we do and as you
say you act as a coach a manager you're
encouraging them to go and live and
perform in their best way possible
suddenly the you know return on
investment then you get out of this
person is actually very very high
because they are showing that passion
they're responding in the best possible
way
look culture is everything I mean you
look at any winning sports team and you
can see and hear and smell the positive
culture you look at a great basketball
team like of recent times when the
Golden State Warriors we're winning
back-to-back championships or if you're
watching Netflix and the last airs if
you look at Chicago Bulls when they're
at their Zenith everyone is coming
together around a mission everyone is
fighting the fight everyone is giving a
hundred and one percent that is culture
and
culture for me is built around how we
collaborate how we interact with each
other which is behaviors and I don't
know I think decency and respect I have
to be like the first values as part of
that so if you want to feel good when
you're amongst your teammates then for
me it starts with decency and respect
and I think that there's sort of another
way to turn this like if you have a very
sort of positive reinforcement model and
say hey I'm their mentor I'm their coach
how would I treat them there's another
side to this so look we're all human so
sometimes we can fall into a bad habit
or a bad response there's another idea
that I've mentioned once on the show
ages ago that I found very instructional
and it was all around this idea of when
someone is off track when somebody is
just in a bad place let's say it's a
colleague or a client this is really
nice thought and it goes like this don't
judge people because you never know what
kind of battle they are fighting nice so
let's say someone's a total idiot and is
really disrespectful to you just take a
breath you have no idea particularly
people you don't know very well you
might have no idea of what's going on
for them and just to build on that as
well that's exactly it I myself would
hope that I would be treated in that way
so if I was to come in and maybe I'd had
a bad morning maybe I just had the worst
meeting of my life and I have a
momentary lapse and I'm a little bit
grumpy maybe oh you know maybe it's
something even more than that I'd
appreciate it when my colleagues would
show me that awareness so exactly as you
just said it's this culture of knowing
that everybody has a backstory almost
everybody has a life around them
everybody's individual when you remember
that and when you put it into action
then you realize oh they aren't
just behaving like this because they're
not very good instead it's all they're
behaving like this because of something
that you know I can't really touch I
won't judge them on that I'll encourage
and motivate them in perhaps a more
constructive way that's over here and
ultimately both parties end up the
stronger for it you end up evolving as a
team you end up you know being stronger
than next time something like that
happens
totally totally you start to see here
that you know Bob is taking learnings
any way he can his default starting
point is we've both decency and respect
and it's really nice to have this as a
reminder that he's success starts with
these very universal truths and it
really starts to frame what you can
start to see is his positive mindset
doesn't it it does it does absolutely
and building on that let's see the next
clip that we got from Bob actually
because that's a nice segue we are
exploring this idea of leadership what
Bob believes are really good values in
being a leader of people employee or a
colleague and there's another core
principle and element that Bob tells us
that helps him drive progress forward
that he believes is one of the core
traits that any leader should have in
place and that is optimism that the
great leaders have I discovered his
optimism you talked about the the
negative power of pessimism and the
positive optimism I just want to leave
us I find so many people are pessimistic
right now it's driving me crazy
you have Maine remained optimistic
through all sorts of turmoil including
personal turmoil in the book of
tragedies in the theme-park difficulty
difficult relationships with people or
someone who said you're gonna basically
you're never gonna advance in Disney and
throughout the book you the theme is
optimism how do people maintain it well
I think by the way optimism is a core
principle of good leadership you know
people just don't want to follow someone
as a pessimist and I remember as a kid
seeing World War two movies you
you'd have some captain or lieutenant or
officer of some sort saying okay we're
going over this hill you know come on
fellas if that guy is a pessimist who's
gonna go over the hill with him you know
and if you I think if you equate that to
business it's in many respects you know
somewhat similar it's a it's an
interesting world changes so rapid so
profound that it creates a huge amount
of anxiety in some cases cynicism in
some cases people view the world is to
stop dystopian in nature that's actually
why I like Disney so much because what
do we do we manufacture fun you know we
enlighten people we tell stories that
are optimistic where the future is
bright good will triumph over evil
there's value in adventure the value of
love friendship family respecting your
elders I mean I could go on and that's
Disney in this world what a better time
to be in this business and it's actually
I just met with 325 Disney executives in
Florida in Orlando and I said to them
another reason to be optimistic there
are many if you're at Disney is that
factor look where we are in the world
today I really like this because for me
I'm quite an optimistic growth minded
person and I just see it as optimism is
an essential life force you have to wake
up in the morning believing something
could can happen and I mean Holy Smoke
right now in a post covered world where
we've been quarantine and so forth more
than ever
do we have this choice do we want to be
victims or do we want to take ownership
do we want to be negative or do we want
to be positive I think this is quite a
reminder from somebody who was told
you're never going anywhere and Disney
you'll never be the boss to someone
who's had a 15-year tenure a CEO who has
smashed the records turned the company
from sort of stagnant to a growth engine
I think this is a very timely reminder
on the choice that we have around our
mentality you're totally right this
choice of thinking about or approaching
problems or opportunities around us is
totally up to us as an individual it
depends on me to interpret
a problem or an opportunity and respond
to it appropriately and what I like
about this you know a bit of advice from
Bob and exactly what you've just said
Mike which is you know having an
optimistic growth mind set is a good
trait to have when you're as soon as you
wake up basically it's a good challenge
you know how do I try to keep myself on
this optimistic track each day is
something that I think everybody can
sort of be challenged with what's your
secret how do you wake up and feel
optimistic what kind of gets you into
that right headspace do you think well
you know I heard an uber driver he had
this ritual that he told me about where
every morning he wakes up and he is just
grateful for a new day he always thinks
to himself every morning I'm the
luckiest guy in the world and I love
this choice to wake up and to say wow
what can happen today and to me it is I
mean in terms of the timeliness of this
it's ridiculous because there's all this
uncertainty and craziness in the world
we don't control that but we can control
how we think about it how we respond to
it
I love the reminder that I'm getting
here that optimism is a choice and sure
you might be optimistic but you still
face great challenge this takes me
straight back to our most recent show
with Arianna Huffington she was a poor
girl in Greece who said I want to go to
Cambridge and everyone's like are you
crazy
and do you remember her mum was like
let's see how we can do that yeah and
she not only went on to do that she
founded a company she sold for 300
million dollars that company want a
Pulitzer Prize like oh my gosh there's
some optimism and in fact if you look at
the whole disposition of Melinda and
Michelle in the women in innovation
series again they chose to be optimistic
so whilst they have different things to
teach us from Bob the thing that brings
them together
is optimism and that's a choice for me I
don't think we can remind ourselves of
this enough and I think anybody who's
listening to this at home under
quarantine I would just say here is your
chance to say okay yes there's some
challenges but what did I learn how can
I make a positive out of a negative it's
a great mindset it's great it's a good
encouraging reminder for all of us I
mean whenever you and I speak regularly
on the phone and actually I do notice
the first call that you and I might have
in a day you do call out the positive
you do say what a beautiful day what a
beautiful time to be around look at the
sky even though we're isolated or at
home just look outside
and I appreciate that it's a good
reminder to me and what I take from Bob
and what I take from you know your calls
Mike is as soon as we improve our own
optimism as soon as we change that
mindset and start looking on the bright
side of life as multiply say and much
like your uber driver he's very very
grateful every morning that starts to
rub off on others you know Bob is saying
be a powerful leader by being optimistic
nobody's gonna follow the negative
person over the top of a hill when you
are optimistic and when you believe in
what you're doing when you're positive
when you're happy that's a very very
powerful force that people are attracted
toward and it gives people confidence
and it gives people the empowerment to
go and you know pass it on this is a
great behavior that I've seen in a few
different countries around the world
which is pay it forward so if I'm buying
a coffee maybe I'll buy two coffees and
the person behind me in the queue will
get theirs for free just so you know
it's a little bit of a tangent but
actually that's quite a optimistic
playful powerful behavior that actually
does make a difference for the person
behind me and I think even leaders that
can continue in your
work in your career so to look at the
other side of this or sort of the what
comes after this what bob has another
teaching for us like okay so you're
treating people right you're learning in
any situation you're optimistic and
things start going well okay now on the
other side of this is success and what
comes with success is sometimes ego and
he has more learnings for us this is
great
now what we've got the chance to do is
to look at what happens when your things
are going well you're hitting homeruns
you're meeting objectives ticking boxes
everything's going well people are
recognizing you acknowledging the
success Bob's got some powerful values
and lessons for us around ok don't get
ahead of yourself so let's have a listen
to Bob Iger talking about what not to do
and how to fail as a leader I think
leaders fail for a number of reasons
arrogance is a sure way to create
failure sometimes in leadership
positions in positions of power
particularly when success ensues it's
easy for people to allow success to go
to their heads and to get arrogant
sometimes they fail because leadership
can be an isolating experience and in
isolation you lose the ability for
whatever reason to hear differing
opinions sometimes with leadership comes
a power that intimidates people to even
express themselves in honest ways and I
think the last thing with leaders which
probably is a collection of all the
things I just said is it can go to your
head the old power corrupts I think is
an apt truly apt statement our concept
the statement or concept that obviously
we see in a lot of Disney movies as well
but it's you know born out of total
truth if you let this power or this very
very you know self reflective energy be
too much in isolation you only think
about yourself your own
me thinking about the immediate walls
around you rather than your colleagues
and peers or your family even and what I
like about this thought from Bob is when
you remove the walls around you when you
aren't entirely isolated and you get the
different opinions from others around
you suddenly you're not only enriched
but also you're having more an effect on
those around you your being that leader
you're not letting it get to your head
you're not being arrogant or directing
people in the way that you want to go
you're open to other points of view and
you are part of a team and I like that I
think that's a great kind of a reminder
of how to behave as a leader and you can
imagine the temptation when you're
working and the world's biggest media
company the temptation to think you've
been the CEO for 15 years you're kicking
ass taking names I mean they launched
Disney Plus and in six months they had
50 million subscribers I mean a lot of
people will be like yep that's me I'm
the best but it is you're absolutely
right it's a very good reminder and once
again what you see here is something
actually that I saw in Michelle Obama
and that despite all of her success and
being the most powerful couple in the
world she was still prepared to accept
her story and to admit to challenges in
a very open and frank way in which many
people don't and I think Bob is actually
cut of the same cloth
he's like easy tiger calm it down a
little bit don't get ahead of yourself
listen two points of view around you
maybe those that are different and it is
you're absolutely right it's a great
reminder but I want to remind you Mike
and all of our listeners that we we are
not done with Bob Iger
we have some other really really good
clips to come how much you describe the
next set of Clips we've got how would
you describe those mark because there's
some goodies in there well a lot of the
podcasts and Bob's work so far that
we've discussed are all about leaders
it's all about leading people and I
think that he's the
if you want to learn how to lead well
he's a classics guy and these values
that he's already told us about decency
respect optimism avoiding arrogance
these are really really good tips what
we're now going to explore is something
a little bit more akin to day to day
work how can i as a maybe an employee or
a peer or a colleague action some of
these tips if I'm not leading one of the
most popular businesses or companies in
the world wait wait for this mark two
hundred thousand employees right let's
say you don't have two hundred thousand
in your team but there's still some
magic is in there where should we start
mark I'm gonna start with Bob's focus on
this small detail you know it's
something that we all strive towards but
no matter what it is no matter what you
do even the smallest detail that you are
in control of as long as you've done it
well it contributes a tremendous amount
to the value of the project as a whole
first of all there's a Japanese word
which he didn't teach me I discovered in
a documentary about a sushi chef in
Tokyo called Jokinen which is the
relentless pursuit of perfection the I
I've never worked with anyone or seen
anyone up close that embodied that then
Steve Jobs he believed that perfection
mostly in the product that they created
had incredible value and that was a core
value to Apple as a for instance he had
talked about guts and the ability to
take chances phenomenal yeah phenomenal
and the perseverance often required
particularly in the face of tremendous
pessimism
he was quite something there he he also
had an incredible designers eye and I've
worked with people before who have taste
but he could hone in on the most minut
detail and understand that even the
smallest detail if well done contributes
a tremendous amount of value
to the whole for me the idea here is
that if you're truly doing something
which you care about and you're proud of
your work then you should strive for
perfection and it's really a question of
being proud not only of your work but of
yourself you want to be able to stand
behind your work maybe even greater yet
is something that I've spoken about a
fair bit which is what is your legacy
right and I think that every day we have
a chance to strive for perfection one of
the things I do Marc is I have grammerly
and I use that grammar checking tool in
order to make sure all forms of my
written communication from email to
documents to white papers to case
studies to master classes you name it
everything goes through grammarly so
that my communication is as good as it
can be I really like this idea of
holding yourself to a high standard so
my question for you moe is when you're
striving for perfection what's something
you do to raise the bar mm-hmm good tip
you know grammerly is a fantastic add-on
to your browser and you know actually I
must admit I also use it too and it's a
great value ad for me I think it's also
possible to strive for perfection by
working with others so I like to
collaborate I like to co-create and
something for me before getting started
on a project whether it's an email or a
presentation or a new proposition of
some kind or a product I like to really
really understand as much detail as
possible I like to sit with colleagues
and peers and really get into the detail
of okay well what is it why is it matter
what's the data that proves that this
could be valuable because I believe that
perfection as an idea has to be built on
solid foundations obviously the word is
a little bit subjective as we know from
our own work in the past but for me I
strive for it by collaborating I might
go away and create something and I might
think yeah this is it I've cracked it
but actually only you know similar to
what bob was telling us a minute ago
about letting things get you only when I
share it
somebody else do I know is that the
quality checker because I might be so
far beyond the line thinking that it's
right that only when working with
somebody else in describing it to
somebody else do I realize oh no it
doesn't work so I think for me getting
perfection is if I can get another
person to sort of agree with my point my
mindset I cannot tell you how much I
depend upon others giving me feedback
contributing to ideas will in the end
make my ideas better exactly so every
time I've shared an idea it just comes
back better right it just comes back
better and I think a lot of people feel
that they can't share it something till
it's perfect
or they are scared and this always blows
me right that someone's gonna steal
their idea mmm I think the thing is that
if you have a disposition ideas get
better and look let's be honest in our
work we know you can have the idea to do
a podcast on learning from innovators
and that may or may not be a good idea
but the real truth that we have learned
time and time again in this show ideas
are 1% execution is 99% because it takes
courage resilience discipline stamina
you've got to stay the course so for me
perfection is just share it and work on
it together I couldn't agree more you're
totally right everybody's got good ideas
everybody thinks so they've got the next
big unicorn but actually it's all about
like you say the execution and a lot of
that requires more than one person a lot
of it requires a touchstone you know to
tell whether it's gold or not when
you're sharing those ideas with others
that's when you can understand whether
it's Goa and you get different
perspectives and different perspectives
make better ideas and I can tell you
what Bob I'll use got some thoughts here
because if you're thinking about ideas
and going for perfection never has there
been a greater challenge than to take a
company with such history in the past to
think about the future
and we've actually got some really great
learnings now on how Bob really had this
mental model on how to actually innovate
and he's got some great wisdom for us so
let's have a listen now to Bob Iger
talking about having one hand in the
present and one hand in the future as
far as you can imagine when you when you
manage a company that is as complex as
this in so many businesses there's an
interesting challenge to manage for
today and manage for tomorrow I talk
about it in terms of using your hands
you you have to have one hand in the
future in one end in the present if you
have to in one place then you fail if
you have to in the future then you're
not managing a business day today and
that's a big problem operationally and
if you're just managing today then
you're gonna miss out on opportunities
or you're gonna completely ignore
consists significant threats and not
prepare yourself for that so this notion
of protecting the present is something
that I talk about a lot at the company
David Puttnam sure David Clemen gave a
speech in the UK a couple of weeks ago
and he said protectionism is much more
digestible than innovation which I
thought was very well put so as the CEO
of the company I feel that it is my role
to make sure everybody's got a hand in
the future in the hand in the present
and that we are mindful of the value the
president is delivering but not so
overly protective of it that we're
ignoring you know a world that is
changing right before our eyes this is a
good thought-provoking clip because it's
telling us you've got to have hands in
both time periods you've got to think
about your business now you got to
protect the present but you can't not
plan for the future you've got to have a
hand and an eye looking towards the
horizon but what I like about this is
actually again it's tied into all of the
other clips that we've been talking
about so far because only by being a
valuable and trustworthy leader could he
inspire the business to think about both
time spaces look Matt that's the only
way he could get the team to entertain
the idea of what he called a more
undigestible idea of being
disruptive doing things in the future
because what he said is like being in
the past is very comfortable right just
keeping the things that you do today
going that's a very comfortable
disposition what he was suggesting is
how uncomfortable we get when we think
about change when we think about doing
something differently and you're
absolutely right you don't have
permission to lead people into the
future if they don't feel the respect
the common cause the fact that they're
cared for the fact that they're safe
these are themes that we've heard a lot
of but what's really fascinating here is
this is Bob iger's version of a mentor
model and somebody else who is very good
on mental models was Elon Musk and he is
all about the sort of a very
quantitative look into the future and
the Nevitt ability even if it seems
ridiculous today he can think about it
in the future what's interesting is bob
has a more of a people based mental
model which is hey guys we need to be
half in today half into tomorrow and
what I like is these are two different
incredibly successful people who've led
companies into the future in very
different ways I think that's really
interesting to see that there were two
different paths to creating the future
what do you think man yeah I think
that's a great observation
you know Bob's admission of
protectionism it is like you say very
very easy to focus on the past it's very
very easy to only think about the
present because it's right here right
now and only when I think what's a good
demonstration of a leadership behavior
is when you're not only thinking about
right here right now
but thinking about the future thinking
about not only way you're gonna be but
where's the company going to be where
your peers and colleague I mean I must
admit it does intimidate me the idea of
running a company that has so many
different properties
Pixar 20th Century Fox I know I know
and to protect each of those while also
driving it forward and being innovative
is an incredible achievement
the
bulb and obviously his team he's not shy
about admitting that he's surrounded by
great people again another fantastic
leadership quality this next clip though
is really crazy because it builds on
this mark because what it does is it
actually shows us how he's actually done
this how he's actually looked into the
future and he's done it and again this
is where you see the difference between
him and Ilan I think Ilan doesn't have
much patience and just goes incredibly
quick breaks a few things along the way
so this next clip is really
instructional because it's really frames
how they built Disney Plus and rather
than rushing like everyone in the
business community was imploring them to
quickly launch something to compete with
Netflix they took their time and they
showed patience and courage so let's
have a listen to Bob Iger talking about
doing this in the right way we did
extremely well licensing our content to
Netflix
we're launching this product because we
are ready to launch it we wouldn't been
ready to launch it to three years ago we
wouldn't have even been ready to talk
about it
it takes technology it takes content it
takes the talent to make the content it
takes a marketplace it could argue that
what Netflix has done has actually been
good for us because they've seeded the
marketplace to robust over-the-top
content distribution and presentation
and so I like launching when we are
launching and believe that it's a great
time for us and the Fox Act was a
acquisition and a lot to do with it
something interesting David that I've
observed and I don't think I've said it
publicly but we announced that we were
doing this in 2017 right so just the
summer of less than two years ago it was
actually June of 17 that we decided to
do it and that led to the purchase of
bamdeck and then the opportunity to buy
Fox first came up later that year in
fact just a few months after the board
approved us buying the majority share of
BAM tech which was done for one reason
to go into the direct consumer business
Rupert and I sat down and talked about
action we would not have done that
transaction had we not decided to go in
this direction because if we hadn't we
would have been looking at that business
and through a traditional lens oh we're
buying TV channels were buying more
movie making capability etc and so on
but by the time the acquisition
opportunity came up and we knew we were
going in this space we evaluated what we
were buying through this new lens of
what could National Geographic mean to
us what could be what could mean to us
being in the director consumer space in
India what could it mean having access
to their library not to monetize it
through to dish traditional means but to
do it through this BAM I mean the light
bulb went off thirty years of The
Simpsons well okay that's okay but
that's a that's a perfect example of
what I'm talking about an example it
just maybe proves the point again we
which maybe speaks to why people don't
acquire companies too because you try to
measure what you're acquiring in a
traditional sense our decision to buy
Pixar Marvel and Lucasfilm was made
because we believed that great
storytelling would stand the test of
time and no matter how much the
marketplace was disrupted whether it was
cable and satellite movie theaters
traditional television you name it a
great story well told really story well
told was going to succeed meaning as a
an investment or as a financial
proposition where no matter what who
that's a loaded clip that is full of
great great stuff that we can unpack for
a lot of time what immediately jumps out
at me though is this demonstration that
Bob isn't just a leader he's not just
this incredible you know guy who
inspires behavior within the business he
is an innovator these are values and
behaviors of an innovator he's not
jumping into decisions too quickly
he isn't measuring things
that he can't measure he's not
approaching things in a traditional lens
he's thinking about things actually as a
much bigger hole he's thinking of the
opportunity that it might present down
the line he is the value of for example
as he calls out storytelling and he sees
that there's a great value to that and
wants to build on it it's a great clip
of demonstrating what he is like as this
innovation powerhouse and I think that
to take this further like how we can
have a little bob ourselves is he's very
clear on his beliefs and he's mental
models and even though everyone was
saying hurry up launch your own Netflix
Challenger he's like I have clarity of
thought I know what I think I know what
I believe and I will do it my way and I
love the courage that he has because he
has the right mental model and let me
break that down because he was so clear
in his own mind about when it would be
right for Disney that he said to
everybody no we're not ready and he had
the courage to stand up as Netflix
continued to succeed and what we've seen
is so beauty with the benefit of
hindsight here they've launched they
have over 50 million subscribers for
Disney Plus and actually the content
offering is paltry compared to Netflix
yet he had the courage to stand behind
his thoughts and his beliefs so if we
don't have thoughts and beliefs then we
can't be courageous like he was we can't
be tough like he was we can be affected
by those around us
who don't necessarily have Ally
interests they have their own interests
I think this is a celebration of know
your thoughts and know your values and
stay on track I mean even Jeff Bezos
says be stubborn on your vision but
flexible and how you get there what I
see here is bother saying know your
thoughts know your values and stick to
them even when everybody's shouting to
go different directions you
got it that's it again all these
different clips that we've talked about
today they are leading to this you know
all these behaviors and so on him acting
as an innovator him acting as this guy
who's applying these different mental
models to how he's approaching business
he's got that confidence and awareness
to say no no we're not ready it's okay I
know the bigger picture and it's a good
behavior it's inspiring from a
day-to-day career perspective to
challenge myself at not jumping to a
decision you know think about the bigger
picture what else is going on how do I
see things playing out and what are my
colleagues and peers and partners think
you know apply an awareness to a
subjective opinion and actually go in
sense check it that's the thing like
what do you sense check it against is
your values and your mental models
alright if you have a look at my strong
belief that products are best built when
you test and learn with the end-user
continuously over time so whenever
someone comes to me and says here's a
great idea I cannot tell you Mike how
many times I go to events or meet people
and they say hey I've got this idea for
an app and my first question is okay
that that sounds good how many people
have you tested this with and I'll give
you this funny story so I'm at a startup
and technology event and somebody I know
introduces me to Mike he can help you
and this person says okay successful
entrepreneur hey I've got this idea for
a killer app okay and he said but I'm a
bit stuck and I'm huh huh and he tells
me the story of this service and I was
like how many people have you tested
this with and he said well myself and
the few people that have have built the
beta version of the app they've all
tested it not like okay but this is a
product for consumers how many consumers
have you tested it with it says we
haven't and I said we don't need to have
a meeting we don't need to have a call
you don't need to present the app to me
you just need to go test with users now
my point in this is more that because I
am so firm in this mental model that
testing with users is the source of
innovation that if someone hasn't done
it I don't need to spend an hour on a
call where they basically try and pitch
media I don't need that and it was quite
deflationary because he obviously had
been successful in business by doing
deals and I'm like we don't need to have
a meeting you just need to go and test
with users and it was so disruptive to
him but I could be firm and my thing you
don't need my time you need to go test
with users go do that and then come back
and we can chat because it's only then
that I can really give you some
meaningful limbo because I can see what
the users response was and I think that
what we can do here from Bob's
inspiration is ask ourselves what do we
believe and what do we know to be true
because when we have a firm sense of
those when we write those things down
when we can write a blog post about them
when we can make a video about them when
we can share those in a meeting with
great clarity that is when we can chart
our success and if you are flip-flopping
left and right depending on what Joe
blog says today and what Joe blog says
tomorrow that tells me you don't know
what you believe and you don't know what
you think and I think what we are seeing
thank you to Bob is somebody who knows
how they want to work with people but he
also has very clear mental models and
how he wants his business to succeed and
borrowing from our friends simon Sinek
bob knows the brand of disney he knows
the values and the why behind the
business it's a great mental model where
he can you know similar to yourself Mike
your wife is probably around you know
user input in that particular example
it's holding the chap approaching you at
a conference offering a new product and
your responsive know go and test with
users that's holding throughs for the
value and I think what Bob showing us
here as well is okay well we're not
gonna rush in and create a substandard
product that goes up against Netflix for
example let's do it right because
but you are all about getting the story
correct now this idea of doing it right
now we're gonna do a big pivot as we
come actually to the final clip of the
show we've got the mental models we've
got how to work with others to be
optimistic to be humble to be respectful
but you know I think we may have left
the best to last market I think this
last and final clip really brings home a
truth that we have heard timeless times
whether directly from innovators about
this idea of hard work or whether what
we've gone on to discover is that nobody
is an overnight success it's about
discipline it's about hard work and
staying the course even in the face of
great adversity so I am so pleased to
share with you now this last and final
clip from Bob Iger of Disney about hard
work I'd say a few things that I've
learned and what served me well first of
all nothing beats good hard hard work I
know that sounds really trite but I came
to my adult life were my career with a
modest intellect but a tremendous work
ethic and that served me extremely well
with that came a real desire to to do
well but I knew in order to do that I
had to be well prepared to so I'm a
student I learn a lot to this day I try
not to go into anything cold I try to
learn it also by the way one of the most
helpful things in terms of making
decisions is accumulating knowledge is
making a decision not a from shooting
from the hip not by winging it but by
learning enough about something to
either form a knowledgeable opinion or
to make a decision based on dark
knowledge that's accumulated and I think
along the way more than anything else
that has probably contributed to where I
today mmm a good secret to bob success I
suppose is a healthy reminder it's
another great tip from Bob be prepared
being disciplined work hard I've heard a
lot from Bob and you know everything
I've read about Bob he goes into his
meetings well-informed he researches who
he's going to meet he knows what he's
going to talk about and as he says he
shoots from the hip
he doesn't wing anything again going
back to your previous point Mike having
input from users you don't just make it
up and be subjective you go in with a
well informed opinion from your
colleague your team your users of the
end product in this case you're going in
from Bob's perspective with knowledge he
wants to be the best version of himself
so that he can be the most valuable to
those around him to the business so true
it's a great ending clip isn't it it is
because I mean this idea of hard work
and something that was revealed in the
clip which is this always learning these
are such crucial things and when they go
together if you work hard and you're
always learning if you think about the
eventual compounding effect means that
you're just going to be so much better
each day than you were the day before
because you took a learning you're built
on it took another learning and built on
that and that and that and I think that
what this shows us for all of the things
around behavior and mental models some
of those might come naturally to us some
of those might be a little harder but
one of the things that we know to be
true from studying 72 entrepreneurs
innovators creators and builders is that
nobody gets greatness by chance mmm
there is this deliberate hard work there
and that's to us
every day is your chance to wake up and
say I am going to work like a beast
today I will produce today I will
deliver today I will not take it easy
I will go
the end of my day knowing that I worked
as hard as I could I did as much as I
could and I think that this is such
another good reminder because you might
think hey you know he's a Disney as
hugie end up at the top it's all good no
he's like no hard work and always
learning I mean great stuff Homer ah
boom that's great
what a great mantra and he's coming from
a guy who's so impressive you know he is
this classics guy he's done so much for
Disney what a better role model to have
what a person to inspire us to go and
wake up every day have this optimism be
nice to one another have respect for one
another sense check ideas and put in the
hard work essentially I think Bob's been
a great example of a fantastic innovator
for sure absolutely and what a great way
to start our media innovation series
we've got Mark Cuban of broadcast comm
and the Dallas Mavericks he'll be next
then we're bringing in Reed Hastings
from Netflix again what a timely moment
to reflect on a company that is booming
right now not only thanks to covert but
over the last few years
these guys have defined industries have
stood above and really they illuminate
the path for all of us so and this is
such a nice pivot from all of that
wonderful inspiration we got in the last
series without women of innovation now
we're getting media innovation it's a
bit more cerebral there's some
interesting sections here of the ways
you think the ways you behave and even
some fundamental classic truths of hard
work oh Marky Mark this is good stuff ah
so good I'm excited and so our listeners
are going to be full of all of this
positive energy when they're looking at
their keyboard they've got the positive
energy what should they type in their
browser when they think I want more I
want everybody to go and check out a
moonshots dot i/o but also actually
while you're there go to your podcast
app of choice Apple podcast for example
and leave a Serb little review leave us
a few stars if you like what you're
hearing leave us a few comments it's
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guys think so please let us know what
you think absolutely
so there you have it everybody we have
come to the end of Show 72 a deep dive
into the world of Disney and Bob Iger
he's a classics man he would make Peter
Drucker smile he is doing so many things
right and I hope that all of you our
listeners could take something from the
world of Bob Iger take his lessons he's
values his mental models and you can
take them into your work we really look
forward to having you on our next show
where we're going to dive into the world
of Mark Cuban who's quite a character so
we're gonna have no problem researching
some great clips thoughts and
inspiration from him thanks once again
this is the moonshots podcast that's a
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