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The only podcast covering all things Arizona State athletics! We bleed maroon and gold, and love talking about the Sun Devils no matter what sport.
David Howman (00:01)
Welcome one, welcome all back to another episode of Echo from the Buttes podcast. I am your host David Howman joined by my co-hosts Tom Hardon, Andrew Hayslett and Austen Bundy. And ladies and gentlemen, it is game day. We are coming to you on Friday morning, ASU playing number 24 TCU. We don't get a whole lot of Friday night games, but here we are. It's a Friday night game.
It's the first home game of the Big 12 schedule for ASU this year. course, they're 1-0 in conference play after their win over Baylor on the road, never in doubt. Jesus Gomez, you know, delivering the way that he does. And now they have a chance to go 2-0 and do it against the TCU team that has looked pretty darn good. And they are now in the top 25 after getting ranked this week.
And this is a really great opportunity for the Sun Devils and we're really excited for this game. It's also a blackout game and for those of us watching here on YouTube, we see both Austin and Tom are already in the spirit with their black shirts. ⁓ Andrew and I didn't get the memo, you know, I promise we'll be wearing black by the time the kickoff actually comes around. guys, how excited are we for this game, for it to be?
Andrew Hayslett (01:00)
you
David Howman (01:21)
a home Big 12 game and just the opportunity going against the Horned Frogs.
Tom Hardon (01:26)
I'll lead off here. me, Friday games are always a lot more exciting because you are, you know, we are going to be the matchup. You know, we're high priority showing for college football. There's not going to be really much by way of competition unless, you know, you're, unless you're a sicko like me and you're trying to watch five other baseball games down the playoff stretch plus preseason hockey. But, you know, if you are truly
diving into college football, you're not going to want to miss this game. And I'm just super excited. Student section has already sold out. It's going to be an electric atmosphere. The blackout game, the blackout uniforms, my god, those look amazing. They look like a team that is ready to go pound for pound, round for round, go all 15 rounds with TCU. So I'm excited to be taking it all in.
Austen Bundy (02:23)
I mean, this nervous energy count is excited because that's how I'm feeling going into this game. ⁓ I mean, this is going to be one of those premier matchups that you look forward to. Give me the Friday night lights. This is exactly the stage that ASU needs to really prove to the rest of the college football world that the Mississippi State game was just a stumble in the road, that they're still one of the best teams in college football and a force to be reckoned with. I am.
David Howman (02:27)
Yeah. ⁓
Austen Bundy (02:51)
Cautious though going into this because of how TCU has played in their three games. They haven't had to play many cupcakes and they've had the one game that is their like Slowly FCS team that they had to play They beat up on Bill Belichick's UNC, which I know is probably not saying much right now, which we all thought it was going to be I Mean sure you could probably throw them in the cupcake now
David Howman (03:13)
was gonna say, isn't that their cupcake schedule?
Tom Hardon (03:16)
Hey, hey, hey, don't be talking about my former
coach like that.
Austen Bundy (03:20)
You probably could throw them in the cupcake after the performances that they've put up, but I mean, still in a week one matchup to go down, to go up to Chapel Hill and demolish them, I mean, just was putting the rest of the college football world on notice. Now they're ranked after their quarterback puts up almost 400 yards passing five TDs on SMU.
I'm cautious, I'm excited, but this is going to be probably one of the most underrated games of the weekend and the fact that it's not being played on a Saturday I think is great because the rest of the nation gets to tune in and people are going to start their weekends off right.
Andrew Hayslett (04:04)
Yeah, I'm in agreement. Everyone pretty much unless you're like a Florida State or Virginia fan or Houston or Oregon State fan. Only other four to explain, but you're going to watch ASU TCU like none of those other four matchups are just provide the draw that ASU TCU does. Like you Austin, I'm concerned heading into this matchup. Just four grueling.
games already have a fifth now in a short week before by. I'm concerned. The coaches I know that being at practice, they've talked about how Josh Hoover is an NFL ready prospect. They compared him to the likes of Michael Pennings, Jr. Bo Nicks, Caleb Williams, yada yada yada. So.
There's a lot of concern on what that TCU offense can do, especially with an ASU secondary that I've said week in and week out is a concerning point for me.
David Howman (05:12)
And Andrew, you've been ⁓ really, really high on TCU, longer than most people have this year. ⁓ You've consistently had them near the top of your Big 12 power rankings that you put out on Devils in detail. When we do our internal top 25 poll that's separate from the AP and better than the AP, of course, ⁓ because nobody knows what the heck they're doing these days, what formulas they're using. ⁓ You've consistently had them.
Andrew Hayslett (05:17)
Yeah
David Howman (05:42)
Not only in your top 25, but pretty high up there, usually in the top, within the top 15. And ⁓ it seems like now people are kind of starting to take notice. You know, obviously they blew out North Carolina and nobody knows, nobody knew at the time, like, is that actually impressive? Now in hindsight, not really that impressive. But also they just beat SMU, which is a team that was in the college football playoff a year ago, and they would attain a lot of talent from that.
from that same squad. So TCU looks pretty legit. were, credit where it's due, you were early to the game on TCU being a great team. But for you as somebody who has been kind of sounding the alarm on what this team can be for a while now, does Arizona State actually stand a chance against TCU for you as someone who thinks that they are one of, if not the team to beat in the Big 12?
Andrew Hayslett (06:38)
Yeah, had TCU being my big 12-
quote unquote regular season champion and my preview on Devils in detail back in, what was that, July around Big 12 media days. I did have ASU beating TCU in the regular season and in the post season to get that Big 12 championship. So yes, I think anyone can compete with just about anyone in the Big 12. Just how, that's how the league is. I think your, even your, some of your lower thought of teams
like what UCF is, what Houston is, what Arizona is, they can all compete with TCU and the big dogs like TCU, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Arizona State, gone.
God damn that road of teams saying anyone with anyone that's just the nature of the this this conference Anyone can beat anyone on any given week. We saw that last last year And I think we'll see this again on how the conference shakes out So yes, Arizona can compete with TCU The question I think is can they win and that's not just a simple yes or no what answer
But they can win, yes. ⁓ But there's a lot of things that would have to go right for ASU that I think we'll touch on later.
David Howman (08:08)
Yeah, well, and Austin, mentioned it being a short week, not only a short week, but coming off of a road game, they were out in Waco. And then, of course, that was a tough game. That was one that came literally right down to the last second with that kick from Gomez. Just the, I guess, the toll that that takes, a game like that takes on you. It's one thing if they were able to get a big blowout win and you...
rest your starters in the last few minutes of the fourth quarter. But those guys were just pushing all the way until the very, very end and came away with the win. And then you got to come back and you said you've got that whole day of travel pretty much. And then you're resting, you're recovering from the game. and you've got a short week to go play, you know, one of the 25 best teams in the country. And they're on a hot streak right now. And they got a quarterback who's dealing ⁓ and your own quarterback is
not exactly dealing right now. Is there a world, Austin, in which this is where Sam Levitt really rises to the occasion and steps up and plays like the Sam Levitt that we know he can be, with it being that competition of, Josh Hoover's out there. Kind of going back to the Peach Bowl where everyone was talking about Quinn Hewers is the best quarterback and he was like, no, I'm the best quarterback in this game. And then, I mean, they didn't win the game, but he kind of proved that he was the better quarterback in that one.
⁓ Better quarterback than either of the Texas quarterbacks as it turns out. ⁓ But what are you looking for out of this Sam Levitt Josh Hoover showdown?
Austen Bundy (09:46)
there was ever going to be a matchup or a stage for Sam Levitt to come out and have his signature moment, it would be this game. And I'm not looking for him to play hero ball, I'm not looking for him to go out there and try and scramble and create plays on his own now. You want him to successfully do that, but that should not be his number one option. I want to see him...
looking of course for Tyson but he's gonna he's gonna get double teamed. Tyson is going to be the option that is covered the most obviously so I want to see him utilize more of the receiving core. I want to see him go to guys like Derek Eusebio. I want to see him go to Shaman Mateer of course. ⁓ You need Levitt to understand the situation that this cannot be the the Levitt and Tyson show like everybody wants it to be. Now if Tyson is open throw it to him obviously
⁓ But Levitt needs to understand and I think this is Kenny Dillingham as well play calling that you need to call more plays that are going to be designed to go to guys not named Jordan Tyson. I want Sam Levitt to be able to understand that TCU is going to throw a lot of pressure at him. They're going to want to get him out of the pocket. ⁓ If there's anything I've noticed from Sam lately is that he has held on to the ball a lot longer than he should when he's in the pocket and
I'm not saying he's got to make the decision to rush quicker, but I think he's got to get the ball out of his hand quicker even if that's out of bounds. I would rather he throw the ball out of bounds on second and third down than take a sack or risk a fumble. ⁓
He needs to play smarter football. He's got the football IQ. We all know he does. This is an opportunity for him to go out there and play some of the smartest football he's ever played. Take advantage of the fact that TCU is going to key in on their number one receiver and come up with a game plan that will exploit the areas of TCU's defense that aren't focused on Jordan Tyson. We saw Derek Eusebio burn Baylor's defense down the middle plenty of times in the fourth quarter. We know Shimon Mateyar is a great blocker, but we also know he's the type of guy with the size that will
⁓
be open in the end zone on a goal to go situation or a third and short situation that you don't want to use the run game. ⁓ This is Sam Levitt's opportunity to show the rest of the world that ASU's offense is more than just him and Jordan Tyson.
David Howman (12:06)
Yeah, it's gonna be important too, because Jalen Moss is still out. He was ruled out early in the week. Or I guess not ruled out, but Kenny Dilliam said he's doubtful, which is basically ruling him out. So, you know, they're still looking for that second option after Jordan Tyson. Eusebio stepped up in this last game. But...
Again, you know, if you're only throwing a Jordan Tyson, it makes it very, easy for TCU and say, just go double Tyson and they don't have another option. ⁓ So I look forward to the day that Jalen Moss shows up on the football field again, and he's still looking for his first catch as a Sun Devil. So I'm waiting for it. ⁓ But Tom, think they have some guys that...
have definitely shown the ability they just need to whether it's Derek Eusebio whether it's somebody else they just need to actually step up and really be that second and third option.
Tom Hardon (13:06)
Yeah, and we've been talking about it all season long with with Shaman Mateur really wanted to see more of that tight end involvement and we've gotten to see it the last two games. ⁓ We saw him come down for six catches in back-to-back games so he's really getting the tight end involvement there. ⁓ Where I am really wanting to see the involvement in this specific matchup, I want to see us involve, want to see the ground game.
get going because TCU, while they do have a top 40 ranked run defense, consider their opposition that they've gone up against. SMU is not really a big Russian team. North Carolina, once they got down, they had to go to the air primarily. ⁓ Abilene Christian being an FCS opponent, ⁓ you're already talking about a step down in competition there. So TCU's
rush defense while on the surface looks good, they're really not as great as they appear to be to start out the season. So, you I want to see us use both ⁓ Kyson and Raleigh and work Kanye into the rotation as well and really go, you know, stretch the, you know, stretch the field on the ground and, you know, don't rely on making those big plays through the air.
Go to Tyson when it's appropriate. Don't try and feed the offense directly through him every single play.
David Howman (14:41)
Yeah, and I think ⁓ I'm going to pivot a little bit because you mentioned Abilene Christian, their FCS opponent. ⁓ I'm going to connect a few dots here, so bear with me. But the head coach at Abilene Christian, ⁓ his name is Keith Patterson. And if that name is familiar to some of you, it's because he was a defensive coordinator at Arizona State for a while. He was the defensive coordinator there when Todd Graham was the head coach at Arizona State. And I bring that up because
This game will actually be a homecoming game for Todd Graham. He's on the TCU coaching staff as I think his title is like senior defensive analyst or something like that. And I'm pretty sure it just extends to, you know, helping break down films similar to what Marvin Lewis has done for Arizona State the past few years. But I think that's, it's kind of funny that it hasn't really been talked about at all.
that Todd Graham is coming back to Tempe for this game. ⁓ Obviously he has very little impact on the actual game plan. TCU's defensive coordinator is Andy Avalos, former head coach at Boise State, very successful defensive coordinator at Boise State before that, at Oregon before that. ⁓ So he's definitely the guy to run in the show. But it's so funny that like Todd Graham is gonna be back in Tempe going against Kenny Dillingham who, you know, he got his start as a college coach.
on Todd Graham's staff here at Arizona State. ⁓ And then we're talking, of course, about the defenses. Like, you know, they have good stats, but also there's some ways to exploit them. They blitz a lot. You know, they aren't always sound in their run gaps. And that sounds a lot like some of the things that we saw with Todd Graham, with Keith Patterson, with that, you know, send eight every single play kind of defense that they played. Not the same thing that TCU does, but. ⁓
I think it's such an underrated storyline of him being back in, well, now it's Mountain America Stadium, but it's not actually Mountain America Stadium. And actually before we started recording too, was talking, this is the blackout game, and I was talking about...
Tom Hardon (16:44)
It'll always be some of those areas.
Sorry to the corporate sponsors, but...
David Howman (17:02)
The first blackout game that I went to as a student at Arizona State was the 2014 season, which of course was a very good year. And, and you know, the last really great year that Todd Graham had as the head coach. And it was, uh, it was also their first home conference game of the year. They were in the pack 12 at that point going up against UCLA did not go well for ASU. They lost 62 to 27. Um, but
All that aside, know, Tom Graham's in the stadium. It's a blackout game. And we talked a little bit about the blackout uniforms for this game. Do you guys like buy into like the theme for a game, having a special uniform? Does that really elevate the game for the players? it increase the vibe in a real way?
Austen Bundy (17:52)
Good play, good.
Tom Hardon (17:55)
I think it's primarily for the fans to get excited about, like Austin said, look good, play good. think the photo shoots that have been coming out of the uniforms just go incredibly hard. It gets my heart rate going just seeing the pictures come across my feed.
Andrew Hayslett (18:18)
I am kind of contrarian here. I think you should be playing as hard as you can no matter what uniforms you're putting on. Whether it's maroon, gold, black, white, Pittsburgh Steelers Bumblebee uniforms, Seattle Seahawks neon green, anthracite, ⁓ I don't know what.
Tom Hardon (18:35)
anthracite.
David Howman (18:39)
Hey, Anthracite uniforms
were great. I won't tolerate any disrespect.
Tom Hardon (18:44)
There was no disrespect for me, I love those. With the shiny copper numbers. Oof. Give me those.
David Howman (18:50)
Yeah,
Adidas needs to bring them back.
Austen Bundy (18:53)
It's a shame that the desert ice and desert hammer were cursed uniforms and they had to get rid of those.
Tom Hardon (19:00)
Again, we're predating Andrew's knowledge there.
Austen Bundy (19:02)
The youngin.
Andrew Hayslett (19:06)
Google is free.
David Howman (19:07)
Yeah.
Tom Hardon (19:09)
⁓
Does anybody else get the impression that this could be a 2016 Texas Tech light matchup? That was the Patrick Mahomes game that ASU won 68 to 55. The Kaelin Balazs game, yes. I'm not suggesting it's going to be over 110 points again, but I think that...
David Howman (19:26)
You mean the, you mean the Kaelin Balazs game?
Austen Bundy (19:31)
I was there.
Tom Hardon (19:38)
both offenses could get very, you could get close in their different ways. I think that Hoover's gonna absolutely do it through the air. was saying last night on Ralph Ames and spaces that, you know, Hoover's got, know, Hoover has all the targets that he needs and somebody else brought up the point that I think it might've been Ralph himself who brought it up, that 320 yards for Hoover is going to be considered a bad game.
And I completely agree with that.
David Howman (20:11)
So you're saying Josh Hoover is the next Pat in the Homes?
Austen Bundy (20:11)
He hit about 379 against
SMU.
Tom Hardon (20:15)
What was that?
Austen Bundy (20:17)
He had 379 against SMU, 5 TDs.
Tom Hardon (20:21)
Yeah, 320 yards will be a bad game. And I think our secondary performed admirably enough against Baylor for three quarters. The fourth quarter really just kind of got a little bit away. I think that we can, I think our secondary certainly can do that again. ⁓ It's just a matter of how long they can hold on.
David Howman (20:49)
Yeah, I honestly, I don't know. I feel like the secondary has been fine all things considered to start this season. know, they played this last game without Xavier and Alfred. That's a pretty big guy to be missing out there. you know, Sawyer Robertson, he hasn't had maybe the year that a lot of people expected, but he's still one of the best quarterbacks in this conference. And for the most part, they were able to bottle him up.
⁓ Obviously Josh Hoover is a different story. This TCU offense is a different story. ⁓ So I don't know if I necessarily buy that it's going to be that same type of back and forth as that Kalin Balazs game, but hey, if Relic goes for, you know, six or seven touchdowns, I'm going to be fine with it. If even the three of our running backs goes for that many touchdowns, I'm going to be fine with it. ⁓
I think though this defense probably has more talent than that Sun Devil defense did. gave up all those points to Texas Tech. So I don't think we would need that many touchdowns.
But I don't know. I don't know who's to say.
Tom Hardon (22:05)
I think it's still going to take ⁓ a 40 spot to take down TCU. That's just my gut feeling.
Andrew Hayslett (22:14)
Yeah, TCU, what we've seen from them is they've just put up numbers on every game that they've had. What was it? They put up like 50 or something against North Carolina, like 40. 40-type.
Tom Hardon (22:27)
I it was like 48-24
or something like that against UNC.
Andrew Hayslett (22:33)
Yeah, just they just put up a big number that's crooked against opposing defenses. But this ASU defense might be the toughest one that they faced all year after what we'll see on Friday. But at the end of the day, it's just the injuries that concern me and how many guys are dinged up a little bit that could be worse.
Maybe I'm just being a little bit negative here, but that's what scares me, especially in that secondary, which I think at times has looked suspect, I think, throughout the season, especially in those two-minute drills.
Austen Bundy (23:14)
I'm with you there, Andrew. I mean, I am concerned about the secondary. I'm concerned about ASU.
not being able to cover where the defensive line does not have enough time to pressure Hoover into making shorter throws. I think it's going to be one of those chain reaction things where this defensive front for ASU is capable of pressuring quarterbacks, it's capable of getting in and getting sacks. But if TCU's offensive line can give Hoover three seconds in the pocket, I think he's going to tear ASU's secondary apart and it's going to
come
down to turnovers. Can ASU, even if they're getting chunk yardage plays early, can ASU figure out some of these wide receivers tendencies and at that point you need to switch your game to jumping routes as opposed to having to stick to your guy like glue. I would rather the defensive coordinator start looking at stuff like that to give their guys a more of an advantage in the sense where...
they're gonna get past you but if you can keep yourself within a half an arm's length or an arm's length distance the ball is going to be coming probably to a spot where you can jump that route and get a hand on it at least you don't need to necessarily ⁓ keep the guy from
Andrew Hayslett (24:23)
Thank you.
Austen Bundy (24:37)
separating from you but as long as you're going to understand where the ball is probably going to be placed on a route like that I think ASU's defense needs to be able to adapt to that situation to be successful.
David Howman (24:49)
I think it's gonna be an interesting, I was gonna say good, I'll leave it interesting for now, ⁓ chess match between Brian Ward and this entire TCU office because they do have a lot of firepower. But also I think Brian Ward, one thing that he's done really, really well throughout his entire tenure at Arizona State is even if he comes out with a game plan that doesn't work, like he adapts very quickly on the fly, he adjusts things on the fly. ⁓
And so it's always fascinating to watch when he gets in those games because you know he's going to have a counter. It's kind of like watching him being in a boxing match with the offensive play caller. It's like, you know, he's going to feel you out for a little bit. If he has the right moves, like he knows that he's got some, he'll just stick with it. Otherwise he's going to find a way to counter you. I think too, going back to what we were talking about with like the blackout uniforms and you guys mentioned like it's more so for the fans.
But also this is a home game. This is in Mountain America Stadium, which we all call it by. And they have not lost in this stadium in a very long time. They were undefeated at home last year. Yeah, mean, knock on all the wood that you can. But when was the last time? I honestly don't know the last time that they lost a home game. I know it was in the 2023 season. I know it. I see Andrew.
Austen Bundy (26:02)
to go knock on wood now. Thanks David. Thanks for knocking that out.
Tom Hardon (26:15)
territorial cup 2023.
Austen Bundy (26:15)
Andrew knows.
Tom Hardon (26:19)
I was there and yeah, it was not fun.
David Howman (26:20)
Okay,
see I blocked that one from my memory entirely because you know, we know why, but. ⁓
Andrew Hayslett (26:22)
them. ⁓
Tom Hardon (26:27)
I carried
that with me down to Tucson last year for the Cup game. It's engraved in my mind forever will be.
David Howman (26:31)
Yeah.
Andrew Hayslett (26:35)
That makes two of us there, Tom, on that game. That was not a fun one to watch.
David Howman (26:42)
Yeah, but they've been so good at home though. And the fan base has shown up and they are loud. I mean, we already know just the temperature, the heat in that stadium. It's just different when you're not used to it. And that alone gives you a home field advantage, but the fans are loud and crazy and they make a real difference. And we've seen that, we saw it all last year. And we already mentioned the student section is sold out for this game. Kitty Dillingham.
made it a point early in the week to say like we need you guys now more than ever to show up for this game because this is TCU is going to be like a statement game if they can win you know they're they're ranked now they're undefeated if you can win this game that is huge for the trajectory of the rest of the season like is does does the fact that it's a home game and the fact that
These fans are already coming out and it's a Friday night, Friday night lights with that kind of environment. Does that change your opinion of the game for any of you?
Andrew Hayslett (27:47)
a little bit for me but just one thing to remember if you're a fan there's going to be lot more traffic on 6 o'clock on a Friday compared to 7 o'clock on a Saturday so make sure you get there early. I don't want to be stuck in traffic but one thing I do see and you said it's normally hot in Mountain America Stadium. today was 106 and 10B. I'm looking at my phone here. Tomorrow high will be 87.
and a 40 % chance of looks like thunderstorms and kickoff temperature right now is 83 degrees which is ⁓ obviously warm but not the triple digits that we've seen the first two games so maybe that whole... I wouldn't go that far yet.
David Howman (28:34)
That's sweater weather.
Tom Hardon (28:38)
⁓
I'm getting my Wicked Aparts out.
Austen Bundy (28:43)
I you what, isn't a heat advantage there though. I the 80s, that's exactly what they're feeling at TCU and in Texas. ⁓ I'm a little surprised because I thought there was a law that they couldn't play games earlier than seven o'clock until like October in Tempe.
Tom Hardon (29:02)
I don't know if it's necessarily a law, more of just a guideline to paraphrase Power to the Caribbean.
David Howman (29:09)
You
Austen Bundy (29:11)
Yeah, but mean the 80s again you lose your heat advantage there I'm not sure even if you were in triple digits you'd have much of it because Texas does get pretty hot over the summer and this time of year as well
But when it comes to the fans and it comes to the environment, they all show up and they're loud and they're consistently loud, I think that does change the algorithm a little bit for ASU. ⁓ We've all seen what Mountain America Stadium is like when the students actually show up. We've seen it when the fan base is absolutely rocking. It's a completely different atmosphere than when it's just the average attendance and when ASU in Kenny's first year, when they were not so great.
⁓
I have confidence that if this fan base really does show up and is consistently loud and is getting really into this thing, it's only going to fuel the players more in those big moments. ⁓ It doesn't guarantee a win, but I think it's definitely going to give a little bit of a boost ⁓ in the areas that ASU may be deficient against TCU.
Tom Hardon (30:18)
two points I'm gonna make about tomorrow first when it comes to the weather. If it does end up raining a kickoff and it's not to the point where the game has to be delayed for any reason because of lightning or whatever, I think that actually plays more into ASU's favor because you're not gonna see Josh Hoover making those deep throws with a slick ball. They're going to really focus on the shorter pass plays which lends itself much better to our secondary to be able to keep up and cover that.
The second point I'm going to make, just think back to last year's blackout game. Also a Friday night, also against a ranked team in Utah, and we all know what happened.
David Howman (30:59)
⁓ I don't think that Josh Hoover is gonna come out play in the way that Cam Rising did in that one Unless unless TCU is hiding an injury the same way that Utah was going into that game
which would be fortuitous for ASU yet again. But I think that is well said, especially about if there is rain, I think that does kind of help them out there because between these two teams, ASU is the one that's better at running the ball. They're also statistically one of the better run defenses in the country. So if TCU has to run the ball more, that helps them out a little bit. But I also go back to...
this could kind of be an inverse Mississippi State game for us because I mean, Arizona State went into that and they were ranked. They were on the road. They were in a place that is hard to play because of those dang cowbells and it rattled them. I mean, you could tell early on that the offense just they weren't in sync and you know, some of the things that they had issues with offensively are they're still having issues with but there were also just issues with like
Ben Coleman didn't know when to snap the ball because he couldn't hear anything. Sam Levitt being trying to communicate with the line of scrimmage and he couldn't. It threw them off because of that rowdy environment. And so, you know, even though they hadn't looked great offensively the week before against NAU, they didn't look nearly as competent against Mississippi State largely because of that atmosphere. And, you know, they don't have cowbells in Mountain America Stadium, but
Tom Hardon (32:37)
Thankfully.
David Howman (32:38)
It can be
a similar impact, a similar vibe of Josh Hoover coming in here and he hasn't really been in that kind of hostile environment yet this year. I mean, I know they, you know, they played the first game of the road on the road in Chapel Hill and, you know, all due respect to the University of North Carolina. They're a great basketball school. I don't think that their football crowds are as rowdy as what Josh Hoover's walking into.
Friday night during the blackout game for a game against a ranked opponent.
Andrew Hayslett (33:14)
To go off of what you said earlier, David, about how TCU's not very good at running the ball, their top rusher on the season in terms of yards, he's out this week. with that said, yeah, with that said, the TCU's really just damaged in that department. It's that ASU great.
Tom Hardon (33:26)
his second straight game actually.
Andrew Hayslett (33:39)
Run defense we've got CJ fight and you've got Jacob rich can Geico up the middle those are two guys that are just walls and Having your top back out for now the second straight week is a recipe for Failure so That's something I'm looking out for if it does rain is I I don't think TCU will run the ball
with their running backs as much. Maybe they might do some like jet sweeps, reverses, ends arounds, stuff like that to get creative with it. But that's something I look to. And I think ASU will be doing a little bit of the same. Like that's what Derek Eusebio is good at. So we saw him carry it twice against Baylor efficiently. And I think he can do the same rain or shine against TCU.
David Howman (34:37)
I want to go around real quick just around the horn with everybody and ask two questions first one if ASU loses this game What does it mean for their season going forward if they lose Friday night with everybody watching with the stakes as high as they are What does it mean for the season if they're not able to pull it off against TCU?
Andrew Hayslett (35:02)
well from you
David Howman (35:03)
Come on.
Tom Hardon (35:05)
Go ahead, Go ahead, Andrew.
David Howman (35:05)
Don't all jump in here once.
Austen Bundy (35:07)
Heh.
Andrew Hayslett (35:09)
Well, for me, is that I think that means they're at large bid opportunities just about zero at this point. That so like we saw Iowa State with three losses last year, including one the Big 12 championship missed the.
CFP I would assume that would be basically how it's gonna be this year if ASU were to lose the Big 12 championship So their only path to getting to the CFP would be winning the Big 12 championship game for me and that that's what you have to put your mind to is Okay, maybe you can lose at most one more Regular season game, but you have to win the just
get every win possible to make the big 12 and then win it to secure the auto bid because I don't think there's any reason why two group of five teams would go in over Arizona State with the three losses and a power four conference championship victory.
Tom Hardon (36:16)
See, I almost don't think that we would be able to even lose one more game after this if we do lose. ⁓ I don't think a three loss team makes it even to the Big 12 championship game, but we've seen stranger things happen. The Big 12 could eat itself over and over. We could have the circle of suck that we got used to seeing in the Pac-12 over the years. But in my gut, I think that we have to... ⁓
be two losses or fewer to make the Big 12 championship game. I'm in agreement with you. It does shoot our chances at net large bid out the window. But easy solution is just don't lose.
Andrew Hayslett (37:01)
Yeah, I do want to put it out there real quick. The non-conference loss in Mississippi State doesn't matter for the Big 12 Championship game. Yes, if you do lose that second game in conference play, that does make it a lot harder on yourself to make the Big 12 Championship game like you were saying,
Austen Bundy (37:22)
I'm in agreement with you guys. feel like our college football playoff chances are on life support if you lose to TCU tomorrow or today as we're recording this. ⁓ But I actually think that if we lose to TCU, if you lose a second game anyways, I think that's right, at least for me, it's right around where I thought ASU was going to be this season. I know a lot of people were hyped about.
potential repeat and going farther than we did last year in the CFP I felt more like there was going to be a bit of a regression not just because you don't have a camp scataboo in the offense but just because the big 12 like Tom said is not necessarily a pack 12 reincarnate but it always had
attributes that the Pac-12 did in its cannibalism. And I've always been a proponent for putting conferences that are so well-rounded like that higher on the pedestal because I get sick and tired of watching the Big Ten and the SEC with the same three, four teams that are constantly at the top of the standings and maybe one Cinderella team that you're watching throughout the year, like Indiana last year. mean, like you're not, the Minnesota Golden
gophers are not going to win the Big Ten in our lifetime. I'm going to call my shot right now. That's not happening.
David Howman (38:39)
No love for PJ Flack.
Tom Hardon (38:44)
I'm going
add Northwestern to that list.
Austen Bundy (38:47)
Exactly. like, but when you look at the big 12 and you look at the old PAC 12, like anybody in that conference had an equal shot at winning the conference that year. And we saw plenty of times, except for Oklahoma State. Yes.
David Howman (38:58)
except for Oklahoma State.
I'm pretty
sure they're out of it.
Austen Bundy (39:03)
They're done. Put a fork in them. They're done this year. ⁓ But you look at the Big 12 like just before the season, like you read all those teams and you're like, OK, I could see any of these guys making a run for not just the championship, but for a bowl game, to be frank. And the fact that you would have a conference where anybody can beat anybody and cause all this chaos. feel like a well-rounded conference is more valuable to college football than having an SEC or a Big 10 where it's the same three or
four squads that are winning year in and year out and making the playoff and dominating the postseason, the postseason in the national championship conversation. Like I get it you want to celebrate greatness, but the fact that when you have so much parity, that's the whole point of the sport. We love college sports because there's a ton of parity. We love seeing the upsets and we love seeing all these different stories ⁓ of teams that come out of nowhere and win these championships. ASU was the prime example of that last year. Picked the finish last and then won the whole thing. ⁓
So I think losing T all that to say is that losing the TCU tomorrow, I think puts us right around where I thought we were going to be, which was two losses, three losses. Worst case scenario, I still think we're going to a bowl game. But losing, I don't think needs to be a situation where people hit the panic button on Kenny Dillingham's tenure. I don't think you need to the panic button on the season in general. Obviously, it's less than the expectations given how well we did last year. But I think he's going to be just fine. Still looking at.
probably best case scenario Alamo Bowl type of situation but I don't think you can really turn your nose up at that ⁓ especially given like we just said how much parity there is in this conference and how many different squads can really come out on top here.
David Howman (40:47)
Yeah, I really agree, Austin. think ⁓ because it is TCU, I mean, they are a good team. They are potentially the best team in the Big 12 right now. And, you know, there's always the argument in college football, at least, of, you know, once you lose to a team, you want them to keep winning because the more that they win, the better it looks that you lost to them. And that's kind of how I feel right now with Mississippi State because I think
I think they're still undefeated, right? I didn't miss anything. Yeah, so they're... And I mean, last year they were terrible. They already have more wins than they did last year. I think they've already doubled their wins from last year. ⁓ And so the more that they win, the more understandable it is that Arizona State lost that game, especially in being a road game. ⁓ Whereas when they lost that game in week two, all of us were saying, well, hey, this team won nothing a year ago. How do we lose to them?
Andrew Hayslett (41:18)
Thank
Thank
David Howman (41:45)
Well, it turns out maybe they actually just are a pretty solid team. And Civil Earth deal here with TCU, like they look to be pretty legit. And if that continues to be the case and ASU loses this game, you know, again, Andrew, to your point, it's only their first conference loss. That's really all that matters for getting the Big 12 championship game. And I do agree. think, I don't think that the Big 12 is getting two playoff teams this year. They should.
I agree with everything Austin said, but I don't think that they will. There's a whole thing called SEC bias and it rules everything right now and it's never going away, unfortunately. So the road to the playoff for Arizona State is get to the Big 12 Championship game, do to whoever it is there what they did to Iowa State last year. And that's your ticket back to the playoff. So losing to one of the best teams in the Big 12.
I don't think is cause for concern. Now, if they get blown out the way North Carolina did, maybe it's a different story, then it's, hey, we're not even in the conversation of Big 12 Contenders because one of the better teams just ate our lunch and did it in front of a massive national audience. So obviously, there's layers to how you could lose and still feel good about it, which as a Dallas Cowboys fan, I'm very familiar with. ⁓
And even to the point about the parody within this conference to you, I mentioned Oklahoma State, they just moved on from Mike Gundy after 21 years, winning his head coach in your program, like turned Oklahoma State into a legitimate thing. Like, like people actually are proud to be from Oklahoma State, largely because of what Mike Gundy did. And I say this as somebody who lives in Oklahoma and knows a lot of people who go to Oklahoma State and they
Andrew Hayslett (43:25)
Okay.
David Howman (43:43)
love Oklahoma State football. Two years ago, Oklahoma State was in the Big 12 Championship game. They beat OU in the final Bedlam game ever. And it happened back when beating OU actually meant something. And here they are a year, not even a year and a half later. And they're so bad that they had to straight up fire their coach, their legendary coach that they're going to build a statue of one day.
four games or three games into the year. They couldn't even let them finish out the year. So that's how quickly things change in this conference. And I think it just speaks to how the teams that do stay ahead and stay consistent winners in this Big 12, like even if they're not winning the Big 12 every year or getting to the Big 12 championship game every year, to be a consistent winner, that's impressive. And you look at a guy like Matt Campbell at Iowa State.
and you see the consistency that he's had. When you look at a Dave Aranda Baylor who's been up and down, he's had great years, he's had bad years. Even Sonny Dykes at TCU, he went to the national championship game. I think it was the year after and they had a losing season. It fluctuates a lot. So I think, I agree with Austin, it's not the end of the world if they do lose this game. They're still very much in it to get to the Big 12 title game. But on the flip side, if they do win this game.
and they do beat TCU. What does it mean then? How like, obviously it's a huge win to have a win over a ranked opponent to be 2-0 in the conference, but like, how crazy, how over the top are you gonna go if ASU wins this game? Do they need to be back in the top 25? Is the big 12 hours? How far are you gonna go with a win tonight?
Tom Hardon (45:32)
I'm not going to say that the Big 12 is ours with a win because we still have Texas Tech on the schedule and that's the game that I am keeping circled as my, I wouldn't say as a do or die point, but that is the game that I am keeping marked on my calendar aside from the Territorial Cup. That being said, a win does put us into the top 25 in my opinion, puts us right about where TCU is now.
and it gives us an inside track to getting to the Big 12 Championship game but just you know manage expectations and don't let it get to you know too much to your head then you know you take down a top 25 team don't just rest on that build off of that.
Andrew Hayslett (46:24)
Absolutely.
Austen Bundy (46:24)
I'm with you there.
It's a momentum builder. This is not a rush the field situation for ASU. I would rather see Kenny Dillingham go to midfield to shake hands and act like he's been there before because he has. rather than, I mean, yes, celebrate with the students and your team, but I'd rather see this be a game where ASU goes out, wins the game and expect it like look like they expected to win the game as opposed to
⁓ going crazy like this was a championship type of matchup. ⁓
I don't believe like like Tom said this is an instance you put yourself on the inside track for the big 12 championship game It's you still got a lot more with Texas Tech and plenty of other opponents that are gonna prove to potentially be spoilers down the road I mean, we know ASU fans have had their hopes up before to have a lower team spoil the party before we kind of got lucky with it last year that the fact that our two losses to those lower teams didn't end up killing a postseason bid for the for the Sun Devils ⁓
but it easily could reverse the situation later on. Yes, we should be back in the top 25 and if we're not, then just ignore the AP from now on because they clearly don't watch any games and don't know what they're doing.
I mean if I'm gonna pick out somebody in general, I I don't know if any of you guys follow RJ Young for the Fox Sports when he puts out his top 25. I don't know what games he's watching, but he's got top 25 all over the place. There's plenty of teams and I'm like, where are you getting these guys from? You're pulling them out of a hat.
Tom Hardon (47:51)
Yeah.
Austen Bundy (48:02)
But I digress, but ASU, yeah, back in the top 25, inside track to the Big 12 Championship. And I think this is a game that you celebrate, but I don't believe it needs to be one of those where you're posting locker room, going crazy, water bottle type stuff. mean, yes, you beat a ranked team and you beat one of the best teams in the conference, but you also were the champions last year and you're out looking to repeat. Like this should be, you took care of business and you proved that you are what you thought you were.
Tom Hardon (48:30)
Andrew, real quick before you jump in, I want to carry off of Austin's point about act like you've been there. This game is exactly that. It reminds me of being on the same level ⁓ as the BYU game last year, which I don't think was worth a field storm by the crowd. The Utah game last year? Yes, absolutely.
David Howman (48:52)
two,
it was worth two field stormings.
Austen Bundy (48:55)
Two
field storms.
Tom Hardon (48:55)
two field storms.
⁓ The Utah game last year during the blockout, absolutely that was worthy of a field storm because we were still on the trajectory up. Now we've seen where we can be. We are establishing that standard. I don't think that the standard should be you beat any ranked team and you storm the field.
Andrew Hayslett (49:20)
Yeah, I agree with that, whoever's... I don't know how that decision necessarily gets made or really if that gets made in one person's decision. Yeah.
Tom Hardon (49:35)
It doesn't. I've seen it happen
in real time. It doesn't get made by anybody. just happens.
Andrew Hayslett (49:41)
Yeah, it just happens, but I think this is one I agree. it's TCU. Even though I think they're better than what people say they are, but we have to go by people as a whole, what their perceptions are right or wrong. And TCU is not perceived to be anything special, so there's no need to storm. I think the only thing that's really...
Stormable is Texas Tech and we'll see how the dominoes fall from here to there To get there, but I don't know we'll see with that But yeah, Arizona State I saw an ESPN favor to win which is for what it's worth something ⁓ Yeah
Austen Bundy (50:32)
Kiss of death.
David Howman (50:34)
You
Tom Hardon (50:35)
Also keep in mind that sportsbooks built in a three point edge for home teams.
That's always gonna be... ⁓
David Howman (50:44)
Yeah, well Arizona State is their favorite
Andrew Hayslett (50:44)
Yeah.
David Howman (50:47)
three and a half. So pretty darn close to being just like a straight up pick them. And when you factor in that three point home field advantage, ⁓ which I think is probably fair when, we've talked about how they're undefeated at home. That's a real advantage for a team like the Sun Devils, ⁓ but also TCU is good. And I just want to say for the record.
I think all y'all are lame. I am pro fieldstorming. In this instance, in like 99 % of instances, the 1 % being when it happens against the Sun Devils somewhere else. Anytime that someone storms the field against us, it's totally lame. Get over yourselves. Act like you've been there. But I think especially when you're doing it at home, when you're doing it against a team like TCE, when you're doing it the way that
Andrew Hayslett (51:41)
you're doing.
David Howman (51:42)
Arizona State has played so far this year. They've been uneven in every game they've played, even against Baylor, which you could argue was their best overall team performance. ⁓ They still were not great. They were not, I don't think, anywhere as good as they were down the stretch of last year. so think factoring in all of that, if they do beat TCU, assuming TCU is in fact the team that we all seem to think that they are,
you're gonna have to play your best game. And I think to be able to put it all together on that stage on a Friday night with everybody watching you against a ranked team, against Josh Hoover, limiting him in some, mean, like we said, 325 would be a bad game for him. If that's limiting him, if that's what it takes to win the game, great. I think if you win that game, like go enjoy yourself. And we talked, you you guys said like, act like you've been there before.
Kenny Dilliam has been there before. He's been down there crowd surfing with the Sun Devil fans because that's who he is. I don't want him to give up that fun. I think if they win, if the fans want to storm the field, look, I won't be there. I won't be the first one out there. I won't be any of them ones out there. I'll be watching from my couch in Oklahoma. ⁓ But if they want to storm the field, I say absolutely go for it. ⁓
You beat a ranked team at home when you're unranked. think you celebrate however you got to celebrate. we know at Arizona State, they know how to celebrate. beyond that, beyond discussions of storming the field, though, I it is a, obviously if they win, it's big. I think they belong back in the top 25. Personally, I think they never should have left the top 25. I still think it was ridiculous to go from 12 to unranked.
Tom Hardon (53:18)
Storm your living room, David, you got this.
David Howman (53:38)
So I think they're a top 25 team, especially if they beat TCU. I think for me, it would restore a lot of hope that they can win the big 12 again and really chalks that Mississippi State game up as more of an aberration. But again, it comes back down to you, how are you gonna handle success? Because so far this season, I mean, from the moment that spring ball started earlier this year, Kenny Dilliam has made the theme about.
Yes, we had a great year last year. So what? Who cares? That's in the past. We're not that team. We're this year's team. And it hasn't exactly taken because they're not as good as they were last year. So it would be a huge moment if they do get that win. But then you got to turn around and play the rest of the season. not even halfway through. So I wouldn't be getting ahead of myself if we win. Storm the field and enjoy it.
Andrew Hayslett (54:14)
Yeah.
Mm-mm.
David Howman (54:36)
24 hours later, we're putting it in the rear view, because you got to go out and finish out the season. Nobody cares if you win a game against a ranked opponent in the end of September. It doesn't matter, because the season keeps on going. And with the big 12 and the parity that we've already talked about, you're going to need to keep your foot on the gas pedal beyond just this one big game if you're going to actually do what this team is.
clearly capable of doing.
Tom Hardon (55:07)
You know, I gotta...
Andrew Hayslett (55:07)
To go off of
what you said, David, is back in the spring, I remember hearing at least four times in practice, we are the champions, or actually, no, it will rock you. Every single practice, sometimes four times in a row too. It's like, never wanna hear that song ever in my life again. But,
For me, I would say in the AP poll where they should be at if they win, would say 21, 22 or so. For me, it's probably gonna be a little bit lower based on how I like to do things, which is completely different from the AP poll, which is it's, I'm my own philosopher. I think the AP poll for what it is should have had ASU in it, should have ASU in its top 25 right now. I don't know why they,
dropped them for what they are doing for what I do completely different from the AP people yeah I've had them out from my top 25 but that that's how I do think I do I put more emphasis on record AP puts more represent representation on expectations and other other things that I don't which teach their own but that's that's something I think I I think ASU and my
if they win this game. It's probably gonna be 23, 24, somewhere out there.
Austen Bundy (56:38)
You don't think an 0-2 Notre Dame deserves to stay in the top 25 because...
Tom Hardon (56:45)
because they're Notre Dame.
Austen Bundy (56:45)
Notre Dame. It's
the only reason I could think of they stayed up there.
Andrew Hayslett (56:47)
I don't care.
David Howman (56:51)
of two great teams. It's not like they got blown out by, you know, directional state university.
Tom Hardon (56:54)
Okay.
Austen Bundy (57:03)
Hey, mean, Heather Denich, I think, said it best when she was talking about how she filled out her ballot. was like, the reason I haven't ranked Notre Dame in my ballot is because they haven't won a football game yet. You're not a top 25 team if you have not won a football game this year.
Tom Hardon (57:03)
Okay.
David Howman (57:19)
Well, it's like the Chiefs, the Kansas City Chiefs, they started out in two. We all know they're going to the Super Bowl. Yeah, Notre Dame is gonna, they're gonna rebound, they're gonna win the rest of the games this year, they're gonna be in the college football playoff because they have to, they have to be. And there will only be one big 12 team in the college football playoff because there has to be. There's not enough room, we need enough.
Austen Bundy (57:25)
It's all part of the script.
Andrew Hayslett (57:29)
It's for...
David Howman (57:47)
Big Ten also rants, didn't have, SEC also rants, and then, I don't know, Tulane or Memphis, whoever the Group of Five team is, that they're gonna, the sacrificial lamb offered up to one of those SEC also rants.
Austen Bundy (57:58)
South Florida.
Tom Hardon (58:05)
You forgot the ACC in there as well.
David Howman (58:07)
I, ⁓ yeah. Somewhat intentional.
Andrew Hayslett (58:10)
Hmm.
Austen Bundy (58:12)
Ha
Tom Hardon (58:13)
ACC Powerhouse, California.
David Howman (58:16)
Yeah, yeah, the, you know, the Calgary rhythm never sleeps.
Austen Bundy (58:20)
Ha ha ha!
David Howman (58:23)
But
Andrew Hayslett (58:23)
Hey,
Big 12, I think, took all but one game against the ACC this year, if memory serves me correctly. Just get out there. Come on, CFP people. Look at the numbers.
Tom Hardon (58:39)
When
it comes down to this week, I'm just going to invoke the gospel according to Bill Belichick. Do your job.
Austen Bundy (58:46)
You
David Howman (58:47)
So I know We've all kind of danced around what we think's actually gonna happen ⁓ I won't have us all give predictions on here because I know we're all giving our predictions in an article that Devils in Detail and I want to plug that so you know Go ahead and click on over to Devils in Detail and read all of our stuff over there ⁓ But we all have thoughts we all have predictions. I think we all feel like
Cautiously optimistic going into this one
Tom Hardon (59:19)
My optimism is a little bit more unbridled, but that's just how I naturally am. think that there's always, there's gotta be one irrationally optimistic person and then there has to be somebody else, Austin, balance me out.
David Howman (59:23)
Right.
You
Austen Bundy (59:34)
If you go over and click you'll know why Tom said that.
Andrew Hayslett (59:38)
I would describe myself as more cautious. Not optimistic, not pessimistic, cautious. I can see this game going both ways. I expect maybe another heartbreaker or walk-off kick where Keisuke Goma does something. I don't know. We'll see. That's why he's saying cautious.
David Howman (59:45)
Just cautious, firmly in the middle.
You
Austen Bundy (1:00:05)
So can we just take a?
Tom Hardon (1:00:05)
out on the next episode of
Sun Devil Football.
Austen Bundy (1:00:09)
We also just take a moment to give props to ASU for finally consistently doing the special color games against opponents that don't have this color as their like primary color. I was so annoyed for however many years they kept doing the Maroon Monsoon against Stanford or USC and it's like why are we wearing their colors? Like it doesn't make any sense we're doing the blackout against Oregon like come on.
David Howman (1:00:09)
What was that?
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. And, you know, there's a lot of Big 12 programs that don't have similar colors too, which bodes well for them. We were talking earlier about like the heartbreaks that ASU has had in the past too. One of the great things about the Big 12 is nobody lives in Corvallis. We don't have to worry about going there in November. Again, Andrew, I think you're too young for those Oregon State heartbreak years.
Andrew Hayslett (1:00:40)
Thank you.
Bye.
David Howman (1:01:00)
My God, Corvallis, I will never step foot in that city as long as I live because I have already been hurt by it far too many times in my life.
Tom Hardon (1:01:08)
I think we might be entitled for financial compensation from Corvallis.
Austen Bundy (1:01:11)
You
David Howman (1:01:12)
Hahaha
You know, in today's world of NIL, I think anything is possible. But either way, we're all feeling some sort of way. We're not feeling cautiously optimistic. Some of us are just cautious. Some of us are optimistic. But we're all excited. I know we're all excited for this game. I'm excited for kickoff tonight. And of course, like I said, go to Devils in Detail, check out our stuff. This isn't officially a Devils in Detail podcast, but you can read all of our stuff there.
today throughout the day tonight all weekend long talking about this game ⁓ I'm excited for this one. I'm excited to watch the Sun Devils go up against definitely the best opponent they've had all year so far and we'll be back Monday morning here at Echo of the Butes talking about a win and how excited we all are so until then Signing off for Austin Bundy, Andrew Hazlett, Tom Harden, this is David Hellman for Echo from the Butes as always
Give them hell devils.