The Biggest blindspot of revenue operators

There's a big blindspot in commercial teams. And it'll limit your ability to grow - it's your product.

Here's what we got into 👇

• (00:00) - Introduction
• (01:08) - Product market fit
• (05:19) - The blind spot
• (07:59) - Why it matters
• (09:38) - The first question: Do I have product market fit?
• (15:01) - Talking with authority
• (16:38) - Product limited
• (19:04) - When PMF is moving
• (23:27) - Changing your own perception
• (25:32) - Look with innocent eyes

Creators and Guests

Host

Mikkel Plaehn

Marketing leader & b2b saas nerd

Host

Toni Hohlbein

2x exited CRO | 1x Founder | Podcast Host

What is The Revenue Formula?

This podcast is about scaling tech startups.

Hosted by Toni Hohlbein & Raul Porojan, together they look at the full funnel.

With a combined 20 years of experience in B2B SaaS and 3 exits, they discuss growing pains, challenges and opportunities they’ve faced. Whether you're working in RevOps, sales, operations, finance or marketing - if you care about revenue, you'll care about this podcast.

If there’s one thing they hate, it’s talk. We know, it’s a bit of an oxymoron. But execution and focus is the key - that’s why each episode is designed to give 1-2 very concrete takeaways.

[00:00:00] Toni: Hi everyone. This is Toni Holbein. You are listening to the Revenue Formula. In today's episode, we are going to talk about the biggest blind spot of all revenue operators, which is your own product and obviously how to navigate it, how to think about it and how to fix it.
[00:00:16] Enjoy.
[00:00:21] Besides kids,
[00:00:23] do we have any topics that we can use to introduce anything? It's
[00:00:28] Mikkel: we can use to introduce? No, we have nothing. I got nothing. It's all kids. It's all kids. I got
[00:00:33] Toni: also like, oh, I have this story from last weekend.
[00:00:35] Let me talk about that. But, uh, I'm just
[00:00:39] Mikkel: I wonder also what the demographics of... Our audience, like, it's not gonna be that many that have kids, probably, and they're gonna sit there like, They talk about kids all the time! Just tell me about SaaS! come on!
[00:00:50] Toni: Oh man, Mikkel and Toni, they sound like those boring people at every party
[00:00:56] Mikkel: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:00:56] Toni: that sits in the corner, drinks, you know, nibbles on the beer and talks kids all night
[00:01:00] Mikkel: looks at photos of their kids on the phone. Yeah, yeah. Look, look, look. Yeah. Tell
[00:01:06] Toni: me more about the zebra thing,
[00:01:08] Mikkel: uh, no. But, so you recently met up with, uh, a CRO,
[00:01:15] Toni: I met up with a CRO, that's right,
[00:01:16] Mikkel: that's right.
[00:01:16] Yeah.
[00:01:17] Toni: and really what. I think what makes this more interesting than just saying, Hey, this is a CRO. Um, I met up with a CRO from a bankrupt company. Um, so they went bust.
[00:01:31] I think they were like at around two to 3 million in ARR.
[00:01:36] So this is kind of a number that is just, I would say below the threshold of you can, you can twist it and turn it and make it a cashflow positive thing. and I discussed with her, you know, the learnings, um, you know, really coming out of this.
[00:01:49] Right. and I think the interesting piece was really that she previously basically went through a journey from zero to 100 million, not as the CRO, as like an individual contributor and then, um, you know, a leader eventually, and then went into the smaller company to be the CRO.
[00:02:06] And, um, and, and the realization was that while she successfully managed the revenue side of the business.
[00:02:13] Um, it just, it just didn't really fully work out and it didn't really work out because they were still in product market fit, kind of in that state, they were still looking for that. The problem wasn't the go to market side. The problem, you know, was basically the product market fit side. And those, those were not her words.
[00:02:30] She kind of didn't say it like that. So this is me deducing it. Hopefully, uh, neither from their companies is gonna be upset about me saying it, but, um, really what they were struggling was with, was product market fit and then fixing all the other things on the go-to market side just didn't work out. And then eventually they couldn't make it happen.
[00:02:47] Mikkel: Yeah.
[00:02:48] Toni: Right. And I think, um, you know, what, discussing this with her was also reflecting on, uh, some of the other things that, you know, when, when I was CRO of, another company, we. And, and it took me a while. So we basically had fantastic product market fit in Denmark, like fantastic. You could say that we have extremely good market fit in the UK as well.
[00:03:11] but we actually didn't have product market fit, um, in some of the other geographies that we were operating in. And the thing is, as a CRO, um, and you know, my perspective is now different because my, my role is different now, but as a CRO, you stare at the numbers and. You talk to your sales reps and you talk to your marketing team and everyone is doing the right fucking thing.
[00:03:36] Everything is, everything is going in the right direction. Kind of everyone is doing the right things, but growth just isn't happening. You know, it's just not working out and you sit there and you know, my, my hair was already torn out.
[00:03:48] so I couldn't keep doing that anymore. Um, and I just couldn't figure out why, why did it, why was that specific geography not working compared to the other one?
[00:03:59] It took me a while and maybe it took me a little bit too long and, you know, still the whole story ended extremely well. but it was that we, in this specific geography, we did not have product market fit.
[00:04:10] Mikkel: Yeah.
[00:04:11] Toni: Period. That was simply what it was. and, uh, we had a different initiative in the same company where we wanted to go in an upmarket from a SMB to a mid market, uh, sales process.
[00:04:22] And we had the right outbound guys. We, you know, set the right things on those calls. We got to a couple of further steps in the, in the process and, and we, we struggled to close those deals, because features were missing in the product. Right. And, and at first, when you hear this as a, as a CRO of like a company, it's like, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, features.
[00:04:45] Sure.
[00:04:45] That's why you can't close this shut up and, you know, become a better salesperson. but over time it became increasingly clear that for that segment or the market, we simply didn't have product market fit. We just didn't have it. Right. And I think that's, that's to a degree, I think what, uh, what she also.
[00:05:06] You know, went into and realized maybe a tad too late and maybe, you know, with her skillset and so forth, it might've been better for her to realize that before she joined. Um, and, uh, it really is that as, as revenue leaders,
[00:05:19] I think we have a massive blind spot on the product side. I think so. we are so focused on all of our metrics and everyone can be, really knowledgeable around this by throwing on ACV and, you know, ARPA and, you know, CVR and whatever. Um, but at the end of the day, we kind of take whatever we're selling for granted to be sellable within a certain frame or region or segment or something like that. Right. And I, um, I used to joke, I was like, I don't care what I'm selling.
[00:05:49] It could be pens or paperclips. I don't, I don't give a shit. Uh, just.
[00:05:54] Give me a product, I'll go sell it. and I think that's. that is an extremely junior and poor way of looking at the world. Haha, sounded good when I said it back then, but it's, it's, I think it's extremely, extremely silly now looking back.
[00:06:09] and I think the, the missing pieces that, revenue leaders, they, they do have to understand, What happens on the product side and the reason why they have to understand, they don't have to understand each feature and each button and you know, all of these things, that's not what this is about, but they need to understand.
[00:06:26] What is the problem that that piece of software is actually helping that specific customer, you can call it ICP, helping to solve, right? and if you don't understand that, I think you're leaving a massive, massive piece behind, of you looking at your funnel and the funnel looking great and everything, but you just not seeing that there's another issue that's holding you
[00:06:46] Mikkel: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's what we really wanna get into today is, you know, when do we know that there's a problem from a product perspective? Yeah. And how do you go about it basically? Right. Uh, so you kind of set it, you need to, to know whether solving a problem the customer has and, and that's kind of the, and,
[00:07:03] Toni: I think what we're not talking about, just to be kind of really clear, is this typical, you know, rep comes to you. And it's like, Oh, I lost this deal because of this feature.
[00:07:12] Yeah. Um, or, um, you know, product teed up a big release and you miss target because it slipped into next quarter or whatever. And same, you know, customer churn because of stability issues. I mean, it's like the list goes on and I think, all of us operators have heard. Each of these stories many, many times, and at some point you just, you know, become numb to it to a degree.
[00:07:37] You're like, yeah, okay. Yes. You know, welcome to your job in SaaS. Yes. Product will hold you back. That's part of, that's part of the job description, my friend. That's how this whole thing works. Now get over it and figure out how you can sell it anyway. Right. Um, and, um, uh, and again, there are things where, where that is the right attitude.
[00:07:59] But that's not what we're talking about today. I kind of, there are some fundamental pieces that sit behind. Um, and I think that's, that's the interesting conversation. And, you know, we have some people listening that are, um, below five, below 10 million. Uh, and then we have some folks missing, uh, listening that are, uh, above a hundred, 150, 200 million.
[00:08:17] Um, and it feels like, oh, pro market fit for those folks, you know, for the, for the.
[00:08:22] Sure, that makes kind of sense. But for the other ones, like, why, why would this be interesting to us? Well, the reason why it's interesting to you is because you're going to, add more products as a company, because that's how you add more S curves and that's how you're going to keep growing, by the way, um, you're gonna, uh, explore new.
[00:08:41] segments,
[00:08:42] Mikkel: Yeah,
[00:08:43] Toni: uh, you're going to explore new geographies. In some cases you might be exploring new industries. The list goes on and product market fit is usually a company stage, company wide thing. but as you grow. You will need to hit Product Market Fit, uh, for your sub segments as well, for your sub parts of the organization.
[00:09:03] The, the organization as a whole, don't get me wrong, is at, um, Product Market Fit, uh, but there's one specific piece you're looking at might not be. Um, and again, if you're looking at your fancy dashboard with, you know, all the metrics and you're not asking yourself the PMF question for that specific area.
[00:09:21] You will not be able to solve the riddle. You just will not be, right? So I think this is equally important and interesting for, more early on teams and also the more, more mature teams.
[00:09:31] Mikkel: more mature teams. Okay,
[00:09:34] so where do we take it from here? How do we get into some practical stuff now? Yes.
[00:09:38] Toni: So, let's get, let's get into it here. I think the first question that people might ask themselves is, Do I have product market fit? What does it actually mean? Um, I don't want to go into this whole Y Combinator startup BS world here. Um, I want to make it extremely tangible for revenue leaders and sort of founders and CEOs, just revenue leaders and, and especially RevOps, you know, listening, they were like, well, that's easy, Toni.
[00:10:07] We look at GRR, we look at NRR, we look at LTV, we look at CAC to LTV, we look at all of these wonderful numbers. And. There is merit to it. You can even look at CSAT, you can look at NPS, you can look at all of those numbers and there will be a bit of a message in there that might help you to say at least, yes, we have it. . I would challenge you because to a degree I think all of those numbers combined there might help you to figure out if you Have it, but they don't actually help you with the opposite to a degree, right? Kind of, if you have, uh, you know, bad GRR, uh, why is that?
[00:10:41] Um, your CAC to LTV, maybe it's bad because your CAC is bad, right? Um, could also be that, you know, sure, some of these issues are sitting also on the new business side that are basically filtering through, making this more expensive and so forth. But ultimately, I think what, what really helps you and you as a RevOps, you as a VP of sales, you as a CRO, you can do that.
[00:11:05] Talk, talk to people, talk to those customers. Um, and you know, you have been probably part of selling it. You know, I just say your VP sales or CRO, you, in order to sell more difficult pieces of software, you need to understand what's the problem that they're having. You
[00:11:23] Mikkel: Yeah.
[00:11:24] Toni: need to then position you as a solution to that problem.
[00:11:28] and then they need to be onboarded and they should be able to solve the problem that they had initially, right? And you need to talk to folks and see if the problem that you've identified is actually being solved by your software. If that is not the case, I would argue PMF for that specific sub component of the company as a whole is kind of a question mark.
[00:11:49] Sure, it will also come out in your GR, and LTV, and NPS, and all of those. three letter acronyms here. but at the end of the day, what this whole thing is about is again, someone has a problem and sometimes you need to help people realize they have a problem. Don't get me wrong. Yes, that's also there. you present a solution to that problem and then need to figure out, did we actually solve the problem or not?
[00:12:12] And, and, and that is, that is super. Super simple and super straightforward. I'm sorry. This is kind of an easy way to, for you to figure out what is going wrong in my go to market. Why are all my numbers not lining up in the right way? and this is an easy way to dig into it and have that conversation.
[00:12:29] Mikkel: conversation.
[00:12:29] I I think also if you go back to your example with the geography that didn't work out, if you'd done that, they might tell you, well, Toni, we can't use it because I can't do these three things. Like, that's why. So I can't, I'm not going to buy it. Sorry. And I think getting that, you know, brutally honest truth from potential buyers and customers, that's, that's going to change a lot of things for you.
[00:12:49] Toni: No, and it's, it's the same thing with, if you, if you lose deals in the late stages, um, because of recurring patterns and it's like, Oh, there's a feature with, but it, it might also be for, so in our case, it was when we sold to bigger organizations, it was, filtering grouping functions on your employee roster. It's like, duh, that makes sense. But if you sell to. If 95 percent of your revenue is selling to companies that have 10 to 20 people, you know what you don't need?
[00:13:22] Mikkel: Yeah,
[00:13:22] Toni: Filtering in groups. You just don't, right? But if, if the company is selling to a thousand people, yeah, you need
[00:13:29] Mikkel: Yeah, yeah,
[00:13:30] Toni: And those are, those, those things wouldn't be caught sometimes in the, oh, you know, you couldn't...
[00:13:36] In our case, you couldn't calculate the tax thing here because someone was on the break and you know, that's a capability. This is just a, this is just a silly piece that's just missing, right? And, and then for the German market, there might've been a thousand others. some integration missing or some, basically where you end up.
[00:13:54] Um, and this happens a lot with software, not with ours,
[00:13:57] But but happens a lot with software where, problem is either there or, or latent and needs to be kind of built out. you position your, your product as the solution to that problem. Um, and then three. You make their problem worse
[00:14:12] Mikkel: Yeah.
[00:14:14] Toni: You're not actually solving it.
[00:14:15] You're making it worse. And that happens a lot. And, and you know what, what these people will do, they will churn or they will not buy in the, to begin with, or they will opt out after the, you know, trial period or whatever it will be. Those will basically be things where it's like, Hey, you know, I clicked on the ad because I love the app. Uh, I was on the website. I totally got what this is about. I, uh, requested a demo and a second later I had, you know, a wonderful person on the call that talked me through it. I had this AE that took me, you know, took me through the process. Everything was great.
[00:14:46] Uh, you know, the product was demoed. I love the product, everything about it. I logged in and I couldn't do shit. you know, that that will, that will still, you know, that will basically kind of remove everything, all the wonderful stuff that they've done until that point.
[00:15:01] Mikkel: that made me think of something, when you've, when you have those conversations often what happens is you get a you didn't have and, that generates ideas, right?
[00:15:09] So it might fundamentally change something, but I think when you go and then make the plans, you as a commercial leader, revenue leader, wherever you are, are actually in a unique position to help then make the case for what should we do. You need to figure out whether are we going to build for expansion.
[00:15:25] Or are we gonna build for that new market or for even if you want to go up market, right? Then you're gonna need SOC 2, a ton of things on compliance and you know, so so it I think that's where Doing the business case becomes actually key
[00:15:42] Toni: I think, um, I think it might even be easier because it's... should do the business case as well. And, you know, you'll, you'll get into the hair of the product folks, and that's going to be a fun conversation. But the other thing is suddenly you can talk with authority about these things. Not in hypothetics and, Oh, I saw on this feature request that I saw on Slack last week, maybe that someone said, I think this, you can say, no, I talked to those five people, they said the same thing.
[00:16:08] And you know, that's what's it. I'm sorry. They cannot use this tool because of that. Why is it not? Everything is a blocker. I cannot get it.
[00:16:15] And again, all of those numbers will show up in your GRR and churn and so forth, but it's, it's not going to help you actually. Am I kind of really talking to them, getting that information?
[00:16:22] Uh, potentially even going so far as going to solution proposal mode, which is where all the product folks will slap your wrists and say, no, you can't do this. We're the solution guys. Um, you know, I think that's, that's, that's kind of where, uh, where I think this is extremely helpful.
[00:16:38] Moving on to, you know, number two, which is really about, you need to understand that, your ability to sell is.
[00:16:49] in a macro environment limited by your product. That needs to be an understanding that lives with you. And that can be that there is no product and you have nothing to sell, or the product doesn't work and you have nothing to sell. Or that pockets of the product work for pockets of your audience, um, but not for the rest, right?
[00:17:09] You need to understand that you, you know, in, in many organizations, you will be product limited or restricted by product. Um, and. And you need to understand where those boundaries are, where you're good, where you're not good, and then focus on the areas where you're potentially good. And then you need to hope that you are able to attract and acquire lots of potential buyers for that specific area.
[00:17:32] And again, in our case, it was like, you know what, maybe you shouldn't focus on Germany. Maybe we should In our case also was like, well, we can't focus on Denmark anymore. We have already 50 percent or something.
[00:17:43] That doesn't make sense.
[00:17:45] Uh so there was, there was just a, a piece here where we needed to become extremely smart around what can we do with the limited resources in order to still sell.
[00:17:54] And the thing is, once you start thinking about it like this, it, it feels a bit counterintuitive because you have. You have a solution and you're kind of looking for a problem. It's usually the wrong way to go about it, you know?
[00:18:09] Uh, but in this case you have a product that's a solution and then you need to figure out, okay, where are people sitting that have that problem?
[00:18:15] And you might need to go from, uh, where you have been today and extremely successful to somewhere else. And then it's really about.
[00:18:24] One stone and multiple birds at the same time that you can hit. It's like, ah, you know, we make this one tweak and maybe that one tweak helps us on five different markets or in five different segments or whatever it might be, right.
[00:18:34] You need to understand that. The product is going to be limiting for you. if you, if you don't, if you push through, you will, you will have bad metrics in your newbiz funnel and you're in, in, in your customer funnel as well. and, and you're doing all the right things. It will be super demotivating for the team, by the way, as well.
[00:18:54] You're doing all the right things, but it's, you're just not being able to push through and, and you're forgetting about this limitation that sits around you. So be extremely mindful of what the product limitations are.
[00:19:03] Mikkel: Yeah.
[00:19:04] Toni: So let me just go to kind of the last point here.
[00:19:07] Um, so product market fit is, is a moving thing. It's a living and breathing and moving thing. Um, again, you as an organization might be able to hit PMF at some point, but, it will still linger around and it will basically make. selling and retaining harder if, you know, the further you move away from this, right?
[00:19:29] Uh, so again, it creates this filter on all of the stuff you're doing on the CRO side, um, that makes things either worse or better, right? So how, as, as PMF is moving, how, you know, what are, what are good ways to try and keep tabs on that and try and make sure that you are, following behind instead of Uh, instead of forgetting about it.
[00:19:51] and I think there can be a healthy debate around the executive team who should be doing this and then, you know, yes, it will be probably product and so forth. I, I would recommend again, also to be able to weigh in, in this conversation on the executive level, have some of that intelligence also sit in your team on the CRO side and the revenue side and things I can only recommend doing one.
[00:20:13] When someone churns exit interviews, you know, it's just, it's really horrible, really hurts. Um, but it's just like within an employee that's leaving, um, you know, HR wants to know why they're leaving. And maybe they're asking them a month or two later when, you know, things have cooled down and hear the same thing.
[00:20:31] You want to, you want to have a conversation with those, um, companies and you want to try and understand, okay, why did you, why did you
[00:20:38] Mikkel: Yeah, yeah.
[00:20:39] Toni: Give it, give it to me straight. Don't sugarcoat it. You know, this is an opportunity for me to learn and make it better next time. and the nuggets that you will get there, they will in many cases, uh, there will be connected to product market fit moving, right?
[00:20:54] And it's a big question now, and you need to need to figure out where you'd fall on this side, but. Is product mark, is, is the market fit moving away or, or, uh, have you started acquiring a different audience, right? That, that will be a thing that will be haunting you to the end of your days. but you want to, you want to keep this as, as aligned as, you know, matched as possible.
[00:21:16] And one way to keep tabs on this is to, um, do exit interviews with, you know, in, in some cases you won't be able to do it with all, but some of the churned, churned logos that you have. And then equally so, and maybe I should have said it this in the other order around, but do closed one interviews as well.
[00:21:37] so you just signed a new deal. Great. Have someone that's not the sales rep. it kind of questionnaire style almost. Jump on a call with that decision maker for 10, 15 minutes and ask questions. So why did you buy this? Tell me, you know, um, and what's really interesting is, um, you'll get the true first associations of why they bought this thing.
[00:22:00] Um, and, and, and sometimes you may get, you know what, this just looked much better than the competitor. Uh, so, you know, and they will, they will rarely, um, you know, many, many of those buying decisions are emotional to a degree. Um, so this will be a real asset for you to have the better looking product, uh, I'm sure.
[00:22:19] but they will, they will tell you, clearly why they bought it. And you need to keep in mind that this is them as a persona buying it. Um, it might not be that this is why the organization and the economic buyer bought it. The reasons for the decision maker and the economic buyer buying. They might be completely different and you just need to be aware of that.
[00:22:43] and, uh, those will be, uh, those will be extremely insightful. Um, because these things are then also, okay, this seems to be a trigger point for people, like in a positive way. Let's move this up on the list on the website. You know, let's, let's have them get to that trigger point faster and so forth.
[00:23:00] Right. and, you know, in, in, in our case, we also sometimes asking, so, um, but why did, why did the CFO buy? Why did the economic buyer buy? Um, and they, by the way, usually not going to say, Oh, it's because I have a productivity gain. Uh, they don't care about this. Um, it's, well, you can do. I don't want to go to a pitch, you know, but we can do fantastic things that will help you grow better.
[00:23:23] and that's why the economic buyer said yes. And, and those will be things you'll figure out then.
[00:23:27] Mikkel: I think the powerful thing is also you will, when you operate you will work with a set of assumptions because then you can move faster as an individual as a team, right?. But some of those assumptions might be wrong.
[00:23:40] And we all, we all have them, right? And I've experienced myself hopping on a call even here at Growblocks with a customer on a closed one and realizing something I thought was silly. That was the key driver for the decision of buying, you know, a license with us. And it's just, you know, then you start forming, okay, maybe I am wrong.
[00:23:59] I need to talk with a few more people and see, is this actually then a thing? And then go and change.
[00:24:03] Toni: And I think that's true for the exit interview and for the closed one. One is really the, um, you will, as, as you kind of do this thing, you have expectation and hypothesis about the future.
[00:24:15] Right. It's, it's a little bit like, you know, when you go through your life, you expect, a pen to fall off the table because that's just, that's just how the laws of physics works and, and you're okay with that, right? where, where learning happens if the pen doesn't fall off the table. It's like, what is going on now?
[00:24:35] Right? Kind of, that's different. That's against your expectation. This not what you thought would happen. If you talk to a customer at a, you know, recently churned customer, newly joined customer. And you go in with an expectation of, ah, they bought this for three or four or five or whatever different reasons.
[00:24:50] And they give you something else, this is where your brain breaks just a little bit. Um, and where you then have an opportunity, wait a minute, this, you know, I'm not seeing something properly. You know, I don't understand this problem yet well enough because apparently I forecasted it wrong. And, um, all of these little opportunities to learn, I think this is again.
[00:25:10] Going back to product market fit, either for the whole of the organization, if you're smaller, for parts of the organization, if you're really big, to basically kind of keep updating this, like, okay, new information, I understand this now and kind of need to update my understanding of product market fit and, and the difficulties here, it might be the product that moved, it might be the audience that moved need to, you need to try and make sure that these things kind of stay in, uh, stay in touch.
[00:25:32] And then the last thing on this one, and this is, um, um, I don't know. I think it's a good one. I think it's maybe it's maybe it's boring. You guys decide, but really, um, take a step back. Maybe, maybe you were on vacation a week or two in Europe. In Denmark, sometimes three weeks on vacation, by way.
[00:25:50] and then when you're, when you're on vacation, pour yourself a glass of wine, um, And go to your website and, read what's on the website, actually read it. maybe even create a fake email and sign up and see what the, what the experience is, think about what's written on the website and what you know is really in the product.
[00:26:10] Go through this, try and look at your website and your company with the most naive, uh, innocent eyes of, uh, um, a prospect that newly finds you and ask yourself. Are all of these things actually in sync? actually aligned? is the website telling the same story that, you know, your reps are telling, um, are your reps telling the same story that, you know, your product can deliver?
[00:26:34] And, and it's really difficult to get to that point when you're like in the weeds because then there's, of course, you know, us, you know, this is almost a professional pride thing if you were to question that,
[00:26:44] Mikkel: Yeah.
[00:26:45] Toni: but if you get a little bit of distance between yourself and the GTM, looking at this with ideally fresh eyes.
[00:26:51] Might give you some clues and like, wait a minute, maybe something isn't quite working out. And by the way, and you know, if, if you don't want to go on vacation all the time, which, you know, people really like, um, uh, this, this can also be good with new people, newly that you hire, right? Uh, people kind of coming to the organization, ask them about what they think, because they have basically a fresh perspective on this.
[00:27:13] and there might surface conflicts. Uh, and some of those contracts you might know and you're okay with, uh, but some of them you might be surprised about. And again, that will update your understanding of how this thing works and what you should maybe be doing about it.
[00:27:28] Mikkel: Okay, so we talked a bit about when problem, when the product is holding you back, we talked about falling in and out of product market fit, limitations of the product and a bunch of other things. This is really a key to growing and keep on growing.
[00:27:45] Toni: I think it's, again, I think it's a massive blind spot of most revenue operators, not actually thinking enough about product and. And how it works and what it's solving. And it's, look at this like a lens. You have your, you have your wonderful bowtie, you have all the metrics, ticking in the right direction.
[00:28:06] Every, everyone is doing exactly like you want them to do it. Um, but you have a multiplier on the side, which is, you know, how, how, how much of a good fit is your product for this, and that multiplier can be. Going in the, you know, one and up, it can also go one and
[00:28:23] Mikkel: Yeah.
[00:28:24] Toni: right? And if you're between the zero and one here on the multiplier side, you're just, you're just putting the brakes onto your go to market.
[00:28:31] You need to be aware of that.
[00:28:32] Mikkel: Yeah.
[00:28:33] Toni: Thanks Mikkel.
[00:28:34] Mikkel: Thank you, Toni. Thank you, wonderful listener. Bye.